WEBVTT - Oil Workers Recount Yearslong Detention in Equatorial Guinea

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>Freed from prison after more than two years. Were two

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<v Speaker 2>South African oil workers ponds in a diplomatic row between

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<v Speaker 2>their country and Equatorial Guinea.

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<v Speaker 3>The moment when I saw the race war and basically

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<v Speaker 3>who without two names on it, I realized that this

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<v Speaker 3>is something serious.

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<v Speaker 2>With many international companies invested in the country, some are

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<v Speaker 2>now asking how safe it is to do business in

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<v Speaker 2>opek's smallest member state.

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<v Speaker 4>You get one side, you get the people that's genuinely honest,

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<v Speaker 4>open people, that's the people on the ground, and on

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<v Speaker 4>the other side, you get the people that's in control

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<v Speaker 4>that's totally opposite. You learn a lot through a thing

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<v Speaker 4>like this that's happened to me and Peter.

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<v Speaker 2>On this week's Next Africa Podcast, the oil workers speak

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<v Speaker 2>with Bloomberg about that incident. I'm Jennifer Zabastaja and this

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<v Speaker 2>is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each

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<v Speaker 2>week from the continent driving the future of global growth

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<v Speaker 2>with the context only Bloomberg can provide.

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<v Speaker 5>And joining me.

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<v Speaker 2>To discuss this today is Bloomberg reporter Paul Burkhart. He's

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<v Speaker 2>been following the story for some time now and actually

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<v Speaker 2>was able to interview Peter Huxhem and Frick Pottgeiter.

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<v Speaker 5>Paul, thanks so much for being here. You know, I

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<v Speaker 5>don't think.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been able to cover a story like this on

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast yet, so thanks for bringing it to us.

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<v Speaker 5>So let's start from the.

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<v Speaker 2>Beginning, maybe, and if you can give us a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of background on this case and talk to us about

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<v Speaker 2>Equatorial Guinea and the companies that we're investing in the country,

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that's a good place to start.

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<v Speaker 6>In the nineties, Mobile made a huge discovery in Equatorial Guiney,

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<v Speaker 6>so the Atlantic coast of the African continent and was

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<v Speaker 6>kind of in the middle, and then production in increased

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<v Speaker 6>from there. Gatorial Guinea became a member of OPEK, and

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<v Speaker 6>it really because of this oil wealth just enabled the

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<v Speaker 6>kind of the ruling family. Their Exxon became the backbone

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<v Speaker 6>of production. But the other US companies have also joined,

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<v Speaker 6>and other Western oil producers have joined. And the workers

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<v Speaker 6>typically live in gated communities or on the platforms and

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<v Speaker 6>then just kind of rotate out, but they're largely kind

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<v Speaker 6>of separate from the rest of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>And so then, Paul, how did these two oil workers

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<v Speaker 2>find themselves arrested. Take us through that story.

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<v Speaker 6>So they were really just on their way back from

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<v Speaker 6>a stint of working on the platforms.

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<v Speaker 1>The engineers.

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<v Speaker 6>They were working on these oil platforms and expecting to

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<v Speaker 6>take a flight the next day. It's staying on this

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<v Speaker 6>island where they would bore their flight when they were arrested,

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<v Speaker 6>charged with drug trafficking. It was very discombobulating situation and

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<v Speaker 6>just like in the dark most of the times of

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<v Speaker 6>what was going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So after they were released.

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<v Speaker 6>And back in South Africa, I was able to talk

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<v Speaker 6>to them and they told me about the moment that

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<v Speaker 6>they realized things were going wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>The moment they that I saw this is when I

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<v Speaker 3>saw the restaurantant basically without two names on it. I

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<v Speaker 3>realized that this is a this is something serious, and

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<v Speaker 3>I immediately phoned my partner and I let her know.

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<v Speaker 7>Phone my shore base manager.

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<v Speaker 3>I let him know and at that stage my back

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<v Speaker 3>to back, the guy that would replace me on the

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<v Speaker 3>on the platform.

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<v Speaker 7>He was also in the hotel, so I sent him

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<v Speaker 7>a WhatsApp with.

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<v Speaker 3>My partner's contact details, you know, so that if they

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<v Speaker 3>were to confiscate my phone, he at least would be

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<v Speaker 3>in country and maybe could provide her with some support.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I mean within ten minutes, I think our

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<v Speaker 3>whole company.

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<v Speaker 7>I also told her to notify our embassy.

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<v Speaker 3>So I tried to get as many people aware of

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<v Speaker 3>what was happening to me and where they were taking me.

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<v Speaker 3>So I handed the phone to the driver of the

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<v Speaker 3>police vehicle that was taking us to the police.

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<v Speaker 7>I ended the phone phone to him so.

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<v Speaker 3>That he could let my show base manager know where

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<v Speaker 3>he's taking me. He was reluctant at first.

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<v Speaker 4>But I insisted I didn't add any suspicion that this

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<v Speaker 4>is going to turn out to the way he did.

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<v Speaker 4>I thought, well, I was maybe a witness or something.

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<v Speaker 4>But when I reached the police station, but there's a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of people there waiting for us, a company, the lawyers,

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<v Speaker 4>and people from the embassies, that's when you realized this

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<v Speaker 4>is this thing is big, not a normal just a statement.

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<v Speaker 4>And then you can go back to the hotel, and

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<v Speaker 4>that's when the fear really hits you in the Then

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<v Speaker 4>you start thinking, well, people disappear in Africa, and people

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<v Speaker 4>disappear in these countries, and then you realize you're in

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<v Speaker 4>a big, big mess.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that's that's quite a story from them, a

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<v Speaker 2>herrowing story. I wonder what they told you about what

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<v Speaker 2>the conditions were like when they were in custody.

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<v Speaker 5>How much detail did they get into it was, it's

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<v Speaker 5>quite vivid.

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<v Speaker 6>And they were first taken to Black Beach Jail, which

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<v Speaker 6>is very like notorious just throughout Africa. And soon after

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<v Speaker 6>that they were taken to the mainland, and the mainland

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<v Speaker 6>that they were held in a facility that were usually

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<v Speaker 6>political prisoners are kept.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's Peter and Frick again.

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<v Speaker 7>I don't know about Black Beach.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know any history of Black Beach. Well, the

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<v Speaker 4>first thing that slakes you is the gods. They don't

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<v Speaker 4>go inside the present itself. You get actually picked up

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<v Speaker 4>by fellow prisoners, can call them the guardians or whatever,

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<v Speaker 4>the rulers of the present, and then they take you

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<v Speaker 4>through and they tell you the rules and the regulations

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<v Speaker 4>or what's happening inside. Now everything's going to work out.

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<v Speaker 4>That's a big fright are you getting in there? There's

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<v Speaker 4>another I would say about two three hundred guys in

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<v Speaker 4>there or looking at you strangely, and then you realize, hey,

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<v Speaker 4>this is a real, real bad situation. You are in

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<v Speaker 4>the place is not trying to be kept clean by

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<v Speaker 4>the fellow prisoners. They sought out all the rules and

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<v Speaker 4>regulations inside by themselves. We didn't see any abuse taken

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<v Speaker 4>place verbally or physically on fellow prisoners or whatever. But yow,

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<v Speaker 4>the circumstances inside is very bad. The food, the food

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<v Speaker 4>that even the fellow prisoners they warn you don't eat

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<v Speaker 4>the food because they don't even eat the food. That

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<v Speaker 4>is how bad the food is inside.

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<v Speaker 7>In the beginning, they put us down in this underground area.

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<v Speaker 3>It's sort of it looks like a secret location because

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<v Speaker 3>the entrance to it it looks like a servitude.

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<v Speaker 7>There's pipes inside this cupboard and then you have to

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<v Speaker 7>swing the whole closet out of the wall.

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<v Speaker 3>And then it provides access to these stairs leading down.

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<v Speaker 7>That's two flights leading down in that space.

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<v Speaker 3>At the bottom, they are four cells they roughly two

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<v Speaker 3>meters by two meters, including a toilet.

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<v Speaker 7>I was in cell No.

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<v Speaker 3>One and Frecusine number sell number four initially, so we

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<v Speaker 3>were separated by two cells. We were only we were

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<v Speaker 3>the only guys down there. For the first two weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>We didn't see any daylight, so they kept us down

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<v Speaker 3>there for two weeks and only after that did we

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<v Speaker 3>get the opportunity to go out on a daily basis

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<v Speaker 3>to get some fresh air exercise.

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<v Speaker 2>So Paul, stick with us. When we come back, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the role EG Vice President Tyo Doren played

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<v Speaker 2>and their detention, and also the connection to South Africa

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<v Speaker 2>in a bit more detail.

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<v Speaker 5>We'll be right back. Welcome back. Today. We're hearing from

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<v Speaker 5>the two oil.

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<v Speaker 2>Workers back in South Africa after being pardoned and released

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<v Speaker 2>from an Equatorial Guinea jail after more than two years

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<v Speaker 2>in detention. Paul Burkhart is still with us. Paul, let's

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the relationship between the vice president of Equatorial

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<v Speaker 2>Guinea and South Africa. What happened in the run up

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<v Speaker 2>to the workers arrest.

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<v Speaker 6>So shortly before Peter and Frick were jailed, there was

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<v Speaker 6>a yacht that's that was linked to the vice president

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<v Speaker 6>that was seized here in Cape Town as part of

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<v Speaker 6>the case that was won by a South African who

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<v Speaker 6>was separately imprisoned earlier before these two men were and

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<v Speaker 6>took it up, you know, in a court here and

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<v Speaker 6>then won the case or one part of the case.

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<v Speaker 6>And when that yacht was seized in the days after

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<v Speaker 6>these two men in Equatorial Guinea were put in jail

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<v Speaker 6>and fined and you know, and sentenced. And so the

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<v Speaker 6>sources that we spoke to connected the jailing of Peter

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<v Speaker 6>and Frick with the seizure of the yacht, and Teodorin

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<v Speaker 6>has said that it belongs to the Ministry of Defense

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<v Speaker 6>and it's since been released, but the link was there

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<v Speaker 6>from the people that we spoke to, and that that

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<v Speaker 6>was really kind of a cause and effect and it's

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<v Speaker 6>one of the retaliatory measures that we're talking about, or

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<v Speaker 6>it falls in line with some of this, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>the trend that we had seen from earlier cases.

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<v Speaker 2>And I wonder if Paul, you cover the energy industry

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<v Speaker 2>very closely. I wonder back then what the reaction was

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<v Speaker 2>to their arrest, if there was reaction within the oil

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<v Speaker 2>industry or back home in South Africa for these men.

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<v Speaker 6>I think there was some surprise because it did link

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<v Speaker 6>directly to the oil industry. So usually there's that kind

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<v Speaker 6>of operate in parallel. The oil industry is there, but

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<v Speaker 6>it sort of lives in its own environment, so it

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<v Speaker 6>was surprising.

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<v Speaker 1>For a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 6>But it's also such a sensitive nature and there's so

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<v Speaker 6>much uncertainty as to what could happen politically in that country,

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<v Speaker 6>that the oil companies don't really come out and make

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<v Speaker 6>proclamations about what they think. They're quite sensitive and then

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<v Speaker 6>and they're they're mainly concerned about you know, their operations

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<v Speaker 6>and their staff there, and they're having discussions to deal

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<v Speaker 6>with that. But but you know amongst themselves really.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they probably have to be delicate about what all

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<v Speaker 2>they can or can't say, which leads me to wondering

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<v Speaker 2>how the discussions about their release then ended up happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we know any sort of details about what went

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<v Speaker 2>on behind the scenes potentially to negotiate their release.

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<v Speaker 6>No, again, because of yeah, because of the sensitivity of it,

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<v Speaker 6>we don't know exactly like what the engagements were. We

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<v Speaker 6>do know that that South Africa, the you know, the

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<v Speaker 6>South African government through the Foreign Ministry, had brought this up,

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<v Speaker 6>that it was it was discussed both in Equatorial guint

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<v Speaker 6>and in South Africa with officials. We know that the

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<v Speaker 6>employer of the two Men Oil Services company sbm that

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<v Speaker 6>they were involved in doing whatever they could to help out.

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<v Speaker 6>And yeah, otherwise, another thing that happened was the United

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<v Speaker 6>Nations Working Group on arbitrary detention, took an opinion on

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<v Speaker 6>the case and found that the imprisonment of the two

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<v Speaker 6>South Africans was in breach of multiple international human rights

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<v Speaker 6>So whether that played a part in what led to

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<v Speaker 6>the release.

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<v Speaker 1>We just don't know. But there were a few things

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<v Speaker 1>that happened.

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<v Speaker 6>And again, all that time went by, so there might

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<v Speaker 6>have been pressure building in one area or another.

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<v Speaker 2>And you spent quite a bit of time speaking to

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<v Speaker 2>these two men. What did Peter and Frick have to

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<v Speaker 2>say about how this whole incident has left them feeling

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<v Speaker 2>towards the country.

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<v Speaker 6>It's kind of amazing because I think it was such

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<v Speaker 6>an intense period of just isolation for both of them

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<v Speaker 6>that they really had so much time to reflect and

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<v Speaker 6>they want to move on, and they want to make

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<v Speaker 6>up for the time that they lost with the people

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<v Speaker 6>that they love.

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<v Speaker 1>And they even you know.

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<v Speaker 6>Had had things to say about the people they met

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<v Speaker 6>in detention and and and really developed bonds with some

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<v Speaker 6>of the people that they got to know there. So

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<v Speaker 6>they wonder about them, and they wonder what's happened with

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<v Speaker 6>their fair will be.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously there is a there is a degree

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<v Speaker 3>of anger. You know, you have to you have to

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<v Speaker 3>God against it overwhelming you. I tried to focus on

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<v Speaker 3>healing and my own future, but these in the back

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<v Speaker 3>of your mind, there's always the seed that injustice was

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<v Speaker 3>was done upon you, and you know, you like for

0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.280
<v Speaker 3>there to be some sort of acknowledgment of that. But

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.440
<v Speaker 3>I think at this stage of my life it's really

0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 3>really important that I live the rest of my life

0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 3>to the full and not to try and you know,

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 3>use my time in in retribution.

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.440
<v Speaker 4>You still think about the people that's still stuck in

0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 4>that prison, and I don't think that will ever get

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.360
<v Speaker 4>out of your mind. And their answer actually tied. We

0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 4>tried to help those guys as well. That's still stuck there.

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 4>So that's the ongoing bad dam. But except from that, okay,

0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.920
<v Speaker 4>there's no ed retribution on nothing from my side.

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 3>No, Equatorial is probably a country of two extremes.

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 7>You know, we have really really good people that that

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 7>took good care of.

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Us, and you know that were a great source of

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:32.960
<v Speaker 3>inspiration to us.

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 7>You know that the people down on the ground. I

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 7>think it's very easy.

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.520
<v Speaker 3>To generalize, you know, when you have when you have

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.600
<v Speaker 3>a place that maybe doesn't have a political system that

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 3>we all agree with, you know, to feel that all

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 3>the all the inhabitants of the country are guilty, and

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.600
<v Speaker 3>they're not. You know, they're really really good, warm people

0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 3>that we experience with that I experienced anyway, so.

0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.720
<v Speaker 4>We may we made a lot of friends on that side,

0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 4>fellow prisoners, fellow wardens. And you get to one side

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 4>to get the people that's genuinely honost open people, that's

0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 4>the people on the ground, and on the other side

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 4>you get the people that's in control, that's totally opposite.

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 4>You learn a lot through a thing like this that's

0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 4>happened to me and Peter.

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 2>And are there lessons potentially to be learned from Equatorial

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Guinea and whether or not this could potentially happen again,

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 2>or whether or not companies are now taking extra precautions

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.920
<v Speaker 2>to protect their own nationals who may be there for work.

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.800
<v Speaker 6>The hope is that this was an isolated incident. I

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 6>think Frick had had mentioned that he didn't think it

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 6>was going to happen again. The other thing is that

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 6>Equatorial Guiney's oil production they're the smallest OPEC member based

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 6>on output, right, so that's dropping because then they need

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 6>to keep investment. So these types of incidents wouldn't encourage investments,

0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 6>and so they really need to do as much as

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 6>they can to keep production going. But one aspect to

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 6>watch will be when President Obion retires and if in

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 6>fact the.

0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Role will go to Tiodoran and so then Paul, what

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.520
<v Speaker 2>has Equatorial Guinea had to say about all of this?

0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 6>Well, I mean, aside from the presidential pardon that not

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 6>only include Peter and Frick, but a number of other prisoners,

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 6>there wasn't anything directly that they said in response to

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 6>our questions about you know, why this was happening during

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 6>the detention or you know, what was the reason for it,

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 6>or what they had to say about a link to Tiodoran.

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 1>There wasn't much information from them.

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 2>And you can read Paul's coverage of Equatorial Guinea and

0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>the energy sector across Bloomberg platforms. Now Here are some

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>of the other stories from the region that we've been

0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 2>following this week. Kenya is in talks with to convert

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 2>dollar denominated debt the East African nation, Owes its biggest

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 2>bilateral lender to Yuwan and extend the repayment period. According

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 2>to the Treasury Secretary John Body, the negotiations are aimed

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 2>at helping reduce the one billion dollars Kenya spends annually

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 2>on servicing its debt to China and to create more

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 2>wiggle room in its budget. And an International Monetary Fund

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 2>team was in Senegal this week to discuss concrete steps

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 2>to address recent data issues and advance work toward presenting

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 2>a misreporting case to the IMFs Executive Board.

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 5>Investors are closely.

0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Watching to see whether the West African nation will inch

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>closer to securing new funding needed to stabilize its trained

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 2>public finances, and you can follow these stories across Bloomberg,

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 2>including the Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 2>that in the show notes. This program was produced by

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubai. Don't forget to follow and

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 2>review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts, But

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 2>for now, I'm Jennifer's Abistanja. Thanks as always for listening