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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: Freed from prison after more than two years. Were two

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Speaker 2: South African oil workers ponds in a diplomatic row between

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Speaker 2: their country and Equatorial Guinea.

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Speaker 3: The moment when I saw the race war and basically

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Speaker 3: who without two names on it, I realized that this

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Speaker 3: is something serious.

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Speaker 2: With many international companies invested in the country, some are

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Speaker 2: now asking how safe it is to do business in

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Speaker 2: opek's smallest member state.

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Speaker 4: You get one side, you get the people that's genuinely honest,

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Speaker 4: open people, that's the people on the ground, and on

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Speaker 4: the other side, you get the people that's in control

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Speaker 4: that's totally opposite. You learn a lot through a thing

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Speaker 4: like this that's happened to me and Peter.

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Speaker 2: On this week's Next Africa Podcast, the oil workers speak

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Speaker 2: with Bloomberg about that incident. I'm Jennifer Zabastaja and this

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Speaker 2: is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each

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Speaker 2: week from the continent driving the future of global growth

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Speaker 2: with the context only Bloomberg can provide.

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Speaker 5: And joining me.

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Speaker 2: To discuss this today is Bloomberg reporter Paul Burkhart. He's

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Speaker 2: been following the story for some time now and actually

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Speaker 2: was able to interview Peter Huxhem and Frick Pottgeiter.

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Speaker 5: Paul, thanks so much for being here. You know, I

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Speaker 5: don't think.

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Speaker 2: We've been able to cover a story like this on

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Speaker 2: the podcast yet, so thanks for bringing it to us.

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Speaker 5: So let's start from the.

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Speaker 2: Beginning, maybe, and if you can give us a bit

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Speaker 2: of background on this case and talk to us about

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Speaker 2: Equatorial Guinea and the companies that we're investing in the country,

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Speaker 2: I believe that's a good place to start.

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Speaker 6: In the nineties, Mobile made a huge discovery in Equatorial Guiney,

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Speaker 6: so the Atlantic coast of the African continent and was

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Speaker 6: kind of in the middle, and then production in increased

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Speaker 6: from there. Gatorial Guinea became a member of OPEK, and

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Speaker 6: it really because of this oil wealth just enabled the

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Speaker 6: kind of the ruling family. Their Exxon became the backbone

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Speaker 6: of production. But the other US companies have also joined,

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Speaker 6: and other Western oil producers have joined. And the workers

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Speaker 6: typically live in gated communities or on the platforms and

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Speaker 6: then just kind of rotate out, but they're largely kind

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Speaker 6: of separate from the rest of the country.

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Speaker 2: And so then, Paul, how did these two oil workers

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Speaker 2: find themselves arrested. Take us through that story.

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Speaker 6: So they were really just on their way back from

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Speaker 6: a stint of working on the platforms.

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Speaker 1: The engineers.

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Speaker 6: They were working on these oil platforms and expecting to

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Speaker 6: take a flight the next day. It's staying on this

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Speaker 6: island where they would bore their flight when they were arrested,

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Speaker 6: charged with drug trafficking. It was very discombobulating situation and

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Speaker 6: just like in the dark most of the times of

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Speaker 6: what was going on.

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Speaker 1: So after they were released.

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Speaker 6: And back in South Africa, I was able to talk

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Speaker 6: to them and they told me about the moment that

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Speaker 6: they realized things were going wrong.

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Speaker 3: The moment they that I saw this is when I

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Speaker 3: saw the restaurantant basically without two names on it. I

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Speaker 3: realized that this is a this is something serious, and

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Speaker 3: I immediately phoned my partner and I let her know.

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Speaker 7: Phone my shore base manager.

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Speaker 3: I let him know and at that stage my back

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Speaker 3: to back, the guy that would replace me on the

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Speaker 3: on the platform.

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Speaker 7: He was also in the hotel, so I sent him

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Speaker 7: a WhatsApp with.

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Speaker 3: My partner's contact details, you know, so that if they

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Speaker 3: were to confiscate my phone, he at least would be

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Speaker 3: in country and maybe could provide her with some support.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean within ten minutes, I think our

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Speaker 3: whole company.

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Speaker 7: I also told her to notify our embassy.

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Speaker 3: So I tried to get as many people aware of

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Speaker 3: what was happening to me and where they were taking me.

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Speaker 3: So I handed the phone to the driver of the

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Speaker 3: police vehicle that was taking us to the police.

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Speaker 7: I ended the phone phone to him so.

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Speaker 3: That he could let my show base manager know where

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Speaker 3: he's taking me. He was reluctant at first.

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Speaker 4: But I insisted I didn't add any suspicion that this

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Speaker 4: is going to turn out to the way he did.

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Speaker 4: I thought, well, I was maybe a witness or something.

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Speaker 4: But when I reached the police station, but there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of people there waiting for us, a company, the lawyers,

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Speaker 4: and people from the embassies, that's when you realized this

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Speaker 4: is this thing is big, not a normal just a statement.

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Speaker 4: And then you can go back to the hotel, and

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Speaker 4: that's when the fear really hits you in the Then

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Speaker 4: you start thinking, well, people disappear in Africa, and people

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Speaker 4: disappear in these countries, and then you realize you're in

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Speaker 4: a big, big mess.

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Speaker 2: And so that's that's quite a story from them, a

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Speaker 2: herrowing story. I wonder what they told you about what

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Speaker 2: the conditions were like when they were in custody.

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Speaker 5: How much detail did they get into it was, it's

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Speaker 5: quite vivid.

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Speaker 6: And they were first taken to Black Beach Jail, which

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Speaker 6: is very like notorious just throughout Africa. And soon after

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Speaker 6: that they were taken to the mainland, and the mainland

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Speaker 6: that they were held in a facility that were usually

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Speaker 6: political prisoners are kept.

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Speaker 1: Here's Peter and Frick again.

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Speaker 7: I don't know about Black Beach.

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Speaker 4: I don't know any history of Black Beach. Well, the

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Speaker 4: first thing that slakes you is the gods. They don't

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Speaker 4: go inside the present itself. You get actually picked up

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Speaker 4: by fellow prisoners, can call them the guardians or whatever,

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Speaker 4: the rulers of the present, and then they take you

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Speaker 4: through and they tell you the rules and the regulations

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Speaker 4: or what's happening inside. Now everything's going to work out.

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Speaker 4: That's a big fright are you getting in there? There's

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Speaker 4: another I would say about two three hundred guys in

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Speaker 4: there or looking at you strangely, and then you realize, hey,

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Speaker 4: this is a real, real bad situation. You are in

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Speaker 4: the place is not trying to be kept clean by

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Speaker 4: the fellow prisoners. They sought out all the rules and

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Speaker 4: regulations inside by themselves. We didn't see any abuse taken

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Speaker 4: place verbally or physically on fellow prisoners or whatever. But yow,

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Speaker 4: the circumstances inside is very bad. The food, the food

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Speaker 4: that even the fellow prisoners they warn you don't eat

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Speaker 4: the food because they don't even eat the food. That

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Speaker 4: is how bad the food is inside.

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Speaker 7: In the beginning, they put us down in this underground area.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of it looks like a secret location because

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Speaker 3: the entrance to it it looks like a servitude.

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Speaker 7: There's pipes inside this cupboard and then you have to

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Speaker 7: swing the whole closet out of the wall.

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Speaker 3: And then it provides access to these stairs leading down.

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Speaker 7: That's two flights leading down in that space.

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Speaker 3: At the bottom, they are four cells they roughly two

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Speaker 3: meters by two meters, including a toilet.

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Speaker 7: I was in cell No.

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Speaker 3: One and Frecusine number sell number four initially, so we

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Speaker 3: were separated by two cells. We were only we were

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Speaker 3: the only guys down there. For the first two weeks.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see any daylight, so they kept us down

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Speaker 3: there for two weeks and only after that did we

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Speaker 3: get the opportunity to go out on a daily basis

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Speaker 3: to get some fresh air exercise.

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Speaker 2: So Paul, stick with us. When we come back, we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about the role EG Vice President Tyo Doren played

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Speaker 2: and their detention, and also the connection to South Africa

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Speaker 2: in a bit more detail.

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Speaker 5: We'll be right back. Welcome back. Today. We're hearing from

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Speaker 5: the two oil.

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Speaker 2: Workers back in South Africa after being pardoned and released

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Speaker 2: from an Equatorial Guinea jail after more than two years

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Speaker 2: in detention. Paul Burkhart is still with us. Paul, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about the relationship between the vice president of Equatorial

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Speaker 2: Guinea and South Africa. What happened in the run up

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Speaker 2: to the workers arrest.

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Speaker 6: So shortly before Peter and Frick were jailed, there was

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Speaker 6: a yacht that's that was linked to the vice president

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Speaker 6: that was seized here in Cape Town as part of

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Speaker 6: the case that was won by a South African who

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Speaker 6: was separately imprisoned earlier before these two men were and

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Speaker 6: took it up, you know, in a court here and

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Speaker 6: then won the case or one part of the case.

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Speaker 6: And when that yacht was seized in the days after

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Speaker 6: these two men in Equatorial Guinea were put in jail

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Speaker 6: and fined and you know, and sentenced. And so the

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Speaker 6: sources that we spoke to connected the jailing of Peter

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Speaker 6: and Frick with the seizure of the yacht, and Teodorin

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Speaker 6: has said that it belongs to the Ministry of Defense

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Speaker 6: and it's since been released, but the link was there

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Speaker 6: from the people that we spoke to, and that that

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Speaker 6: was really kind of a cause and effect and it's

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Speaker 6: one of the retaliatory measures that we're talking about, or

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Speaker 6: it falls in line with some of this, you know,

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Speaker 6: the trend that we had seen from earlier cases.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder if Paul, you cover the energy industry

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Speaker 2: very closely. I wonder back then what the reaction was

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Speaker 2: to their arrest, if there was reaction within the oil

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Speaker 2: industry or back home in South Africa for these men.

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Speaker 6: I think there was some surprise because it did link

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Speaker 6: directly to the oil industry. So usually there's that kind

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Speaker 6: of operate in parallel. The oil industry is there, but

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Speaker 6: it sort of lives in its own environment, so it

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Speaker 6: was surprising.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of people.

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Speaker 6: But it's also such a sensitive nature and there's so

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Speaker 6: much uncertainty as to what could happen politically in that country,

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Speaker 6: that the oil companies don't really come out and make

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Speaker 6: proclamations about what they think. They're quite sensitive and then

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Speaker 6: and they're they're mainly concerned about you know, their operations

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Speaker 6: and their staff there, and they're having discussions to deal

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Speaker 6: with that. But but you know amongst themselves really.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably have to be delicate about what all

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Speaker 2: they can or can't say, which leads me to wondering

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Speaker 2: how the discussions about their release then ended up happening.

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Speaker 2: Do we know any sort of details about what went

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Speaker 2: on behind the scenes potentially to negotiate their release.

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Speaker 6: No, again, because of yeah, because of the sensitivity of it,

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Speaker 6: we don't know exactly like what the engagements were. We

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Speaker 6: do know that that South Africa, the you know, the

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Speaker 6: South African government through the Foreign Ministry, had brought this up,

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Speaker 6: that it was it was discussed both in Equatorial guint

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Speaker 6: and in South Africa with officials. We know that the

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Speaker 6: employer of the two Men Oil Services company sbm that

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Speaker 6: they were involved in doing whatever they could to help out.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, otherwise, another thing that happened was the United

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Speaker 6: Nations Working Group on arbitrary detention, took an opinion on

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Speaker 6: the case and found that the imprisonment of the two

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Speaker 6: South Africans was in breach of multiple international human rights

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Speaker 6: So whether that played a part in what led to

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Speaker 6: the release.

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Speaker 1: We just don't know. But there were a few things

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Speaker 1: that happened.

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Speaker 6: And again, all that time went by, so there might

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Speaker 6: have been pressure building in one area or another.

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Speaker 2: And you spent quite a bit of time speaking to

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Speaker 2: these two men. What did Peter and Frick have to

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Speaker 2: say about how this whole incident has left them feeling

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Speaker 2: towards the country.

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Speaker 6: It's kind of amazing because I think it was such

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Speaker 6: an intense period of just isolation for both of them

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Speaker 6: that they really had so much time to reflect and

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Speaker 6: they want to move on, and they want to make

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Speaker 6: up for the time that they lost with the people

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Speaker 6: that they love.

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Speaker 1: And they even you know.

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Speaker 6: Had had things to say about the people they met

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Speaker 6: in detention and and and really developed bonds with some

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Speaker 6: of the people that they got to know there. So

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Speaker 6: they wonder about them, and they wonder what's happened with

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Speaker 6: their fair will be.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously there is a there is a degree

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Speaker 3: of anger. You know, you have to you have to

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Speaker 3: God against it overwhelming you. I tried to focus on

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Speaker 3: healing and my own future, but these in the back

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Speaker 3: of your mind, there's always the seed that injustice was

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Speaker 3: was done upon you, and you know, you like for

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Speaker 3: there to be some sort of acknowledgment of that. But

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Speaker 3: I think at this stage of my life it's really

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Speaker 3: really important that I live the rest of my life

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Speaker 3: to the full and not to try and you know,

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Speaker 3: use my time in in retribution.

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Speaker 4: You still think about the people that's still stuck in

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Speaker 4: that prison, and I don't think that will ever get

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Speaker 4: out of your mind. And their answer actually tied. We

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Speaker 4: tried to help those guys as well. That's still stuck there.

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Speaker 4: So that's the ongoing bad dam. But except from that, okay,

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Speaker 4: there's no ed retribution on nothing from my side.

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Speaker 3: No, Equatorial is probably a country of two extremes.

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Speaker 7: You know, we have really really good people that that

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Speaker 7: took good care of.

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Speaker 3: Us, and you know that were a great source of

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Speaker 3: inspiration to us.

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Speaker 7: You know that the people down on the ground. I

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Speaker 7: think it's very easy.

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Speaker 3: To generalize, you know, when you have when you have

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Speaker 3: a place that maybe doesn't have a political system that

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Speaker 3: we all agree with, you know, to feel that all

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Speaker 3: the all the inhabitants of the country are guilty, and

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Speaker 3: they're not. You know, they're really really good, warm people

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Speaker 3: that we experience with that I experienced anyway, so.

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Speaker 4: We may we made a lot of friends on that side,

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Speaker 4: fellow prisoners, fellow wardens. And you get to one side

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Speaker 4: to get the people that's genuinely honost open people, that's

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Speaker 4: the people on the ground, and on the other side

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Speaker 4: you get the people that's in control, that's totally opposite.

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Speaker 4: You learn a lot through a thing like this that's

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Speaker 4: happened to me and Peter.

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Speaker 2: And are there lessons potentially to be learned from Equatorial

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Speaker 2: Guinea and whether or not this could potentially happen again,

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Speaker 2: or whether or not companies are now taking extra precautions

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Speaker 2: to protect their own nationals who may be there for work.

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Speaker 6: The hope is that this was an isolated incident. I

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Speaker 6: think Frick had had mentioned that he didn't think it

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Speaker 6: was going to happen again. The other thing is that

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Speaker 6: Equatorial Guiney's oil production they're the smallest OPEC member based

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Speaker 6: on output, right, so that's dropping because then they need

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Speaker 6: to keep investment. So these types of incidents wouldn't encourage investments,

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Speaker 6: and so they really need to do as much as

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Speaker 6: they can to keep production going. But one aspect to

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Speaker 6: watch will be when President Obion retires and if in

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Speaker 6: fact the.

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Speaker 2: Role will go to Tiodoran and so then Paul, what

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Speaker 2: has Equatorial Guinea had to say about all of this?

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Speaker 6: Well, I mean, aside from the presidential pardon that not

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Speaker 6: only include Peter and Frick, but a number of other prisoners,

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Speaker 6: there wasn't anything directly that they said in response to

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Speaker 6: our questions about you know, why this was happening during

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Speaker 6: the detention or you know, what was the reason for it,

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Speaker 6: or what they had to say about a link to Tiodoran.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't much information from them.

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Speaker 2: And you can read Paul's coverage of Equatorial Guinea and

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Speaker 2: the energy sector across Bloomberg platforms. Now Here are some

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Speaker 2: of the other stories from the region that we've been

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Speaker 2: following this week. Kenya is in talks with to convert

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Speaker 2: dollar denominated debt the East African nation, Owes its biggest

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Speaker 2: bilateral lender to Yuwan and extend the repayment period. According

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Speaker 2: to the Treasury Secretary John Body, the negotiations are aimed

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Speaker 2: at helping reduce the one billion dollars Kenya spends annually

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Speaker 2: on servicing its debt to China and to create more

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Speaker 2: wiggle room in its budget. And an International Monetary Fund

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Speaker 2: team was in Senegal this week to discuss concrete steps

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Speaker 2: to address recent data issues and advance work toward presenting

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Speaker 2: a misreporting case to the IMFs Executive Board.

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Speaker 5: Investors are closely.

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Speaker 2: Watching to see whether the West African nation will inch

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Speaker 2: closer to securing new funding needed to stabilize its trained

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Speaker 2: public finances, and you can follow these stories across Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: including the Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to

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Speaker 2: that in the show notes. This program was produced by

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Speaker 2: Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubai. Don't forget to follow and

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Speaker 2: review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts, But

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Speaker 2: for now, I'm Jennifer's Abistanja. Thanks as always for listening