Speaker 1: You're trying to make good decisions when you're in the
Speaker 1: space to make good decisions knowing that at some point
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to make good decisions. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the one you feed Throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized
Speaker 1: the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in,
Speaker 1: garbage out, or you are what you think ring true.
Speaker 1: And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen
Speaker 1: or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 1: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 1: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 1: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking
Speaker 1: our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort
Speaker 1: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 1: how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,
Speaker 1: how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: Our guest on this episode is Colin Gowl, guitarist of
Speaker 1: the American band Watershed. Colin also has a solo career
Speaker 1: with and without his backing band, The Lonely Bones. His
Speaker 1: album Superior, The Best of Colin Gowl was released in
Speaker 1: December two thousand sixteen. Colin is also the lead writer,
Speaker 1: editor and founder of the website pencil Storm and the
Speaker 1: owner of the legendary Collins Coffee in Columbus, Ohio. This
Speaker 1: conversation was recorded live in Collins Kitchen and is focused
Speaker 1: on fatherhood in honor of Father's Day this upcoming weekend.
Speaker 1: If you value the content we put out each week,
Speaker 1: then we need your help. As the show has grown,
Speaker 1: so have our expenses and time commitment. Go to one
Speaker 1: you feed dot net slash Support and make a monthly donation.
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Speaker 1: percent that make a contribution and allow us to keep
Speaker 1: putting out these interviews and ideas. We really need your
Speaker 1: help to make the show sustainable and long lasting. Again,
Speaker 1: that's one you Feed dot net slash Support. Thank you
Speaker 1: in advance for your help. And here's the interview with
Speaker 1: Colin gol Hi. Colin, Welcome to the show. Great to
Speaker 1: be here. I'm excited to have you on for a
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. I think you are one of the
Speaker 1: friends that I've had longest in my life, a long
Speaker 1: time since we were like ten or something, which is
Speaker 1: a long time and I also think you are probably
Speaker 1: one of the most criminally underrated and unknown songwriters there
Speaker 1: is out there. So and we'll talk some about your
Speaker 1: songs and uh, but I'm excited to have you on.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be fun. I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1: I know. It is funny how our lives just always
Speaker 1: seemed they always seem to connect some way, somehow. We
Speaker 1: never really set out, but just they're always kind of
Speaker 1: just going back and back and forth. Here we are,
Speaker 1: So let's start like we always do, with the parable.
Speaker 1: There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says,
Speaker 1: in life, there are two wolves inside of us that
Speaker 1: are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which
Speaker 1: represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the
Speaker 1: other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed
Speaker 1: and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he
Speaker 1: thinks about it for a second, looks up at his
Speaker 1: grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And
Speaker 1: the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like
Speaker 1: to start off by asking you what that parable means
Speaker 1: to you in your life and in the work that
Speaker 1: you do. Well, I think, especially coming mostly as a
Speaker 1: background musician and a touring musician, you see talent of
Speaker 1: people that fall into bad habits, and they, you know,
Speaker 1: everyone kind of has some energy when they're young and
Speaker 1: you can go out and do it, and then when
Speaker 1: you get kind of you know, you get hit or
Speaker 1: you know, you get around some unhealthy people, things fall apart.
Speaker 1: So I think, to me, it's always been, you know,
Speaker 1: having spent most of my life probably till I was
Speaker 1: like from eighteen to thirty five touring, it was like,
Speaker 1: how do I healthy habits? How do I keep playing
Speaker 1: music without you know, drinking too much or getting bitter
Speaker 1: or I guess just basically you know, falling off that pyramid.
Speaker 1: So I always try to take you know, each day
Speaker 1: at a time, try and stay creative, try and have um,
Speaker 1: you know, healthy habits, like when things get tough, like
Speaker 1: you know, you run, you go work out, you try
Speaker 1: to eat right, you try to control the things you can.
Speaker 1: You try to make good decisions when you're in the
Speaker 1: space to make good decisions, knowing that at some point
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to make good decisions, if that
Speaker 1: makes any sense. So I guess that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I kind of approach it and almost like a very
Speaker 1: day to day I don't think long term. I think
Speaker 1: more like, what can I do today? What can I
Speaker 1: do now? If I'm not tired? Why would I drink
Speaker 1: coffee right now? I don't need it right now? Just
Speaker 1: drink water? Uh, you know, things like that, and just
Speaker 1: kind of keep me on the path to you know,
Speaker 1: being creative and you know, being a healthy person and
Speaker 1: still trying to achieve something on a on a whatever
Speaker 1: that means on a day to day basis. So I
Speaker 1: guess that would be my I think I learned more
Speaker 1: from watching others what what not to do right, and
Speaker 1: I try to, you know, pick up on those cues
Speaker 1: and carve out my own little path that'll kind of
Speaker 1: just keep me surviving from a day to day basis,
Speaker 1: If that makes any sense. Ye. So true. Long time
Speaker 1: listeners like way long time listeners of the show, or
Speaker 1: people who have gone back through the archives. I may
Speaker 1: have listened to one with Joe A. Strike who was
Speaker 1: an author but also a musician, and his book was
Speaker 1: about the band Watershed and Colin, who we're talking to
Speaker 1: now is one of the main characters in the book.
Speaker 1: Just to kind of frame up where we come from.
Speaker 1: What I'd like to start with today though, is Father's Day.
Speaker 1: So Father's Day is this upcoming weekend. We are both fathers.
Speaker 1: My son's about five six years older than yours. But
Speaker 1: you have written a song recently called Dad Can't Help
Speaker 1: You Now. It's the last game of the season. You're
Speaker 1: standing out on the map, owned pieces loaded, discoreaside, and
Speaker 1: the batter has a full count and you're staring in
Speaker 1: at you catch her. And I've never been more proud.
Speaker 1: But my heart shakes, buddy, because Dad can't help you now.
Speaker 1: Trade every guest I ever got to get you one
Speaker 1: more strike. I'd volunteer to be the EIFL tower for
Speaker 1: Leezy Flyball the right. Now, remember that it's just a game.
Speaker 1: But don't forget to cover home. You're not alone out there.
Speaker 1: Dad can't help you now. So that song from the
Speaker 1: first time I heard it still to today, chokes me
Speaker 1: up almost every time I hear it. So tell me
Speaker 1: a little bit about that song got your son pitching,
Speaker 1: you know, an important moment, And you know, was that
Speaker 1: one of the first times you really recognize like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now he's sort of out of my hands, like up
Speaker 1: to up to a certain age with our kids, we
Speaker 1: can control an awful lot. Yeah, I mean it's specifically
Speaker 1: the song was written quickly, like in my car drive.
Speaker 1: I remember where I was by Thompson Park and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden it just kind of came to me
Speaker 1: and I literally just kind of jotted it down or
Speaker 1: talked into my phone almost the whole thing. Now, obviously
Speaker 1: it came from the fact, as you would know as
Speaker 1: a parent, you're watching your kid in you sports, and
Speaker 1: I think we're both similar in the sense that you know,
Speaker 1: our son's played sports, we like sports. We're not like
Speaker 1: sporty guys per se. But there's a lot of energy
Speaker 1: wrapped around watching your child out there doing sports. And
Speaker 1: you know, the community that we live in it's pretty
Speaker 1: sports centric, so there's a lot around that, and I've
Speaker 1: helped coach. But obviously, you know, watching it's kind of
Speaker 1: like those lessons that you want to be out there
Speaker 1: with him, You want to do anything for him, you
Speaker 1: want him to succeed so badly. Um that it's a
Speaker 1: fine line. You can you don't want to be one
Speaker 1: of those crazy parents. But I mean, obviously the song
Speaker 1: is just born from like you know, you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're out there by yourself. This is it. Bases are loaded,
Speaker 1: and I want it so bad for you. But you
Speaker 1: know what, even in the end, you know, failings okay too,
Speaker 1: because you're gonna fail more often life than not. And
Speaker 1: I think that's obviously that what you try to get
Speaker 1: across to me is as a parent is don't worry
Speaker 1: about results, just do the process, which obviously no one
Speaker 1: young can do. Ye. We only listen to a little
Speaker 1: bit of the song, so um, I won't give away
Speaker 1: the ending of what happens, but you definitely, folks go
Speaker 1: check it out. We'll have links to it. But one
Speaker 1: of the things I like in that song is you've
Speaker 1: got a line about sort of remember it's just a game,
Speaker 1: and also remember to cover home plate, right, because that's
Speaker 1: the thing that's always so challenging for me with you sports.
Speaker 1: On one hand, I'm like, I want him to care,
Speaker 1: I want him to be committed, like to whatever it
Speaker 1: is in life he's doing, and I also don't want
Speaker 1: him to take it too seriously. And how do you
Speaker 1: balance those too? And I thought that line was sort
Speaker 1: of a great combination of of that. Know, I appreciate
Speaker 1: I do like you remember it just a game, but
Speaker 1: don't forget to cover home. And it's such a dad's statement,
Speaker 1: I mean's something you would absolutely you'd say, like as
Speaker 1: he's getting out of the car and walking away, you know,
Speaker 1: remember just a game. Also, don't forget to come her
Speaker 1: home because you just can't help. And of course your
Speaker 1: kid looks at you like shut up, but you just
Speaker 1: cannot help throwing that last bit of advice in. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like the have fun and be careful. You
Speaker 1: just you can't let it go sometimes exactly. And it's
Speaker 1: funny as as we're sitting here talking, my son is
Speaker 1: literally playing a baseball game two blocks away while we're
Speaker 1: doing this. It's gonna start in a little bit, and
Speaker 1: he's been in a hitting slump and he's frustrated and
Speaker 1: I went out and he want to hit this morning.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm terrible, And you're trying to grasp for
Speaker 1: those words as a dad, like, you know, just try
Speaker 1: to have a good attitude and overcoming adversity, you know,
Speaker 1: just you know, just get through it and you'll if
Speaker 1: you do that, people will still feel good about what
Speaker 1: you did. And of course he's like, are you crazy?
Speaker 1: I'm striking out a miserable you know where you're trying
Speaker 1: to import this wisdom and I'm trying to back off,
Speaker 1: you know, because if you're you know, sorry O when
Speaker 1: you may not get here today. It's been really rough
Speaker 1: up there. But how do you get you know, those
Speaker 1: those lessons you're having those moments to keep them engaged
Speaker 1: and on your side and get them through it um
Speaker 1: And those are obviously the challenging. That's where you sports
Speaker 1: really presents those moments where you really have a you know,
Speaker 1: a direct conversation about a very specific bit of adversity
Speaker 1: and you know, and your brains trying to grapple with
Speaker 1: that and how you know to make it okay and
Speaker 1: and let him know, I said, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world either, you know,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't you know, no one's counting on you
Speaker 1: to win the game today. And of course all that stuff,
Speaker 1: they just look at you like whatever, yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 1: I'm staring down the ultimate Dad can't help you now
Speaker 1: a moment with you know, my son going off to
Speaker 1: college in a couple of months, like that's a whole
Speaker 1: another level of like okay, here here you go, like
Speaker 1: I'm kind of not done as a parent, right, but
Speaker 1: in a lot of significant ways, I am, right, oh absolutely,
Speaker 1: And we know we're I've been going to some graduation
Speaker 1: parties and I was thinking about, you know, Owen leaven
Speaker 1: and what that will be like because he's you know,
Speaker 1: was his only child and we're pretty ends on and
Speaker 1: all that. But I think about going to college and specifically, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how much you've shared, but
Speaker 1: you were you had a pretty interesting wildlife. So and
Speaker 1: I'm not your typical dad per se, But I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you think when you're like, man, he's gonna
Speaker 1: go off there and be unsupervised. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: how how have you reconciled that with the stuff. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I did all this stuff and turned out okay, but
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't do that. I mean, how have you
Speaker 1: and I sat on into it. I'm just curious knowing
Speaker 1: your background. Well, I turned out okay, you know, by
Speaker 1: by the hair and my chinny chin chin, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that he's going to be in
Speaker 1: school is a big improvement over where I was because
Speaker 1: I just chose those years to be like just totally
Speaker 1: run wild. So if he stays in school, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that would be great. You know, kids these days,
Speaker 1: he's you know, is he involved in drinking and drugs
Speaker 1: probably to someone degree. What kids? And I keep hearing
Speaker 1: parents say like, well, I'm worried about that's a party school,
Speaker 1: And I was like, what school isn't They're all party schools.
Speaker 1: They want a party. Yeah, I mean, you know, And
Speaker 1: I've had frank conversations with him a bunch of times
Speaker 1: about how look, based on your mom and I history,
Speaker 1: you might react differently to this, absolutely, and you got
Speaker 1: to keep your eye on it. I also know how
Speaker 1: sneaky it is, and it would likely creep up on
Speaker 1: him without knowing he personality wise, that was a little
Speaker 1: bit different than I was when I was younger. He's
Speaker 1: a lot more laid back and sort of seems to
Speaker 1: be kind of content and comfortable in his own skin,
Speaker 1: which I was not. So I cling to that as
Speaker 1: my faint hope that it will be all right. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I expect he's got to figure it out.
Speaker 1: At this point. I've kind of done everything I can.
Speaker 1: You know, advice from dad about being careful at college
Speaker 1: and not drinking too much is like pointless right. My
Speaker 1: mom was in a and we had a lot of
Speaker 1: discussions when I was younger, like fifteen or sixteen, and
Speaker 1: she would be like she gave up drinking and I
Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on, but she was
Speaker 1: the same thing, like, you need to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on this. You need to watch his family history. Did
Speaker 1: anyone ever have that discussion with you when you were
Speaker 1: going up? Were you aware of any kind of history?
Speaker 1: Because I wonder how much that matters, you know, because
Speaker 1: I feel like my mom in a way like having
Speaker 1: that conversation, because if you don't even think about it,
Speaker 1: it would be very easy to go and just you're
Speaker 1: just off the rails. But being kind of exposed to
Speaker 1: that and being like, this is something you have to
Speaker 1: watch out for. Because I had the same conversations with
Speaker 1: no one like you know, A, you're young, it's bad
Speaker 1: for your brain. Now, you don't want to do it anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. But you know he's gonna know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't be hypocrite. You know, I've been
Speaker 1: a rock band. I did all these things for all
Speaker 1: these years. But somewhere in the back of my brain
Speaker 1: was always like just stuff will sneak up on you,
Speaker 1: so you need to watch it all the time. And
Speaker 1: I think that gave me an edge over maybe someone
Speaker 1: who never had heard that, because you can just go
Speaker 1: and then it's too late, if that makes sense. Do
Speaker 1: you think alcohol isn't so complex? Like I don't really
Speaker 1: know if it would have mattered, Like there's certainly you know,
Speaker 1: they say there's a genetic component to it, right, which
Speaker 1: I think I reacted very differently to alcohol from the
Speaker 1: first time I tried it from anybody I knew, and
Speaker 1: I managed to kind of put it on ice by
Speaker 1: not drinking at all, and then I was you know,
Speaker 1: once I was free, I was just off and run.
Speaker 1: It was like a light switch flipped. And I don't
Speaker 1: know that anything could have I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: had a dear mentor at that time, Ed Shay was
Speaker 1: a teacher and he, you know, he did so many
Speaker 1: things for me, took me to Seattle, all this, and
Speaker 1: I remember one night he died not long after, sitting
Speaker 1: in his truck and he was crying like you gotta
Speaker 1: stop this, and I didn't. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean nothing. And that was relatively early in the game
Speaker 1: for me because so I don't know, because I remember
Speaker 1: like the same kind of same time, you know, that
Speaker 1: summer when you're old enough to drink or whatever, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you get pleased to meet me
Speaker 1: and you're just you know, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of like that's what you're doing. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I hope Owen doesn't do that, you know,
Speaker 1: I hope he doesn't go down that road because I
Speaker 1: remember being at a bar, you know, a lot of nights,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that was what we did, um,
Speaker 1: but you know that that's I mean, I think being
Speaker 1: a parent, the I mean, the number one thing I
Speaker 1: think any parent that's had any exposure to that world
Speaker 1: is like, don't get addicted to drugs, don't get a
Speaker 1: drinking obe. It's don't don't. I mean, your life will
Speaker 1: be so hard. I mean, you know that it's so hard.
Speaker 1: You don't want to go so far that you gotta
Speaker 1: come all the way back. I mean, I obviously don't
Speaker 1: do any of that stuff, but I look at people
Speaker 1: that do and I think, well, if you're able to
Speaker 1: keep that under control, like wonderful, Like I hope Jordan
Speaker 1: is able to drink and do that stuff like normally.
Speaker 1: I think it's a legitimate pleasure a lot of people
Speaker 1: have in life that I wish I had at my disposal.
Speaker 1: I just don't. Um. So you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: I want to turn him into a teetotaler. That's not
Speaker 1: how you say that teetotaler. We know what you mean. UM,
Speaker 1: but I but but I don't. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: the addiction piece that you you don't want to anything. So, um,
Speaker 1: why don't we transition to somehow? You had some funny
Speaker 1: stuff about when we played baseball as kids, so well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that was one we had the idea to do.
Speaker 1: This is that you know, growing up here we are
Speaker 1: talking about Dad can't help you now, And we played
Speaker 1: on a baseball team. Part I don't. I remember this
Speaker 1: pretty vividly because I was kind of into baseball. We
Speaker 1: were on a team together and it was maybe like
Speaker 1: sixth grade or seventh grade, and I think your dad
Speaker 1: was a head coach. My dad was assistant coach, and
Speaker 1: our team was terrible. And I also remembered like the
Speaker 1: mound was kind of was the last year. The mound
Speaker 1: was kind of close, So I remember like facing guys
Speaker 1: like Randy Klinger as I remember thinking, I don't think
Speaker 1: I gotta hit all the year, Like I wasn't that
Speaker 1: big physically, neither were you. We were decently skilled, but
Speaker 1: that year where I just felt like the picture was
Speaker 1: right on top of you. And I remember just like
Speaker 1: that year, it was just like this is terrible, Like
Speaker 1: I just couldn't get a hit and our team was terrible.
Speaker 1: And then the next year things moved back and I
Speaker 1: was on a pretty good team and we were like
Speaker 1: the number one seed going the We were named after
Speaker 1: French and Cheek, the two kids that got killed up
Speaker 1: on twenty three, and then you guys were like the
Speaker 1: last seed. We played your team the next year and
Speaker 1: you guys upset us in the first round. Remember, and
Speaker 1: there was a fly ball. It was a pop up.
Speaker 1: I was being saved the next game as a picture,
Speaker 1: and we collided in the ball dropped and two runs
Speaker 1: scored and we lost the game, and I just sat
Speaker 1: and I was I cried. I mean, I was so
Speaker 1: miserable about losing that game. And that's where I had
Speaker 1: mentioned too. I remember my head saying like, don't think
Speaker 1: my dad was a fan of your dad. So there's
Speaker 1: like some bad blood there too, Like it was like
Speaker 1: this a whole little league moment. But I remember that game.
Speaker 1: You probably don't, but I remember, like I remember that
Speaker 1: that year in general. I mean, no comment on my dad,
Speaker 1: but your father would not be alone in that opinion.
Speaker 1: I mean that was just random kids. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what little intense Maybe that's what my dad was
Speaker 1: a little a little probably intense kind of thing that
Speaker 1: we look at now and you look at and you're like,
Speaker 1: come on, like it's a game, like let these kids
Speaker 1: be personal. I remember I never said any at one point,
Speaker 1: like I said something like like I'm not sure about him,
Speaker 1: like which as much as you get for my dad,
Speaker 1: or and maybe this isn't a great fit or something
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean, Like I'm sure
Speaker 1: it wasn't, you know, but yeah, we played on that
Speaker 1: baseball team together and we went ow in fifteen. But
Speaker 1: you know that is the crush of the song is
Speaker 1: and this is this is life, right, This is the
Speaker 1: only thing that matters is how do you come back
Speaker 1: from adversity? That's all that matters. That's all watershed is.
Speaker 1: We're not that great, but we just somehow persevere and
Speaker 1: if you persevere, whether it's you know, in any form,
Speaker 1: it's almost a wind I mean and ins o way,
Speaker 1: and like, that's what you're trying to when you lose,
Speaker 1: to get through it and go to the next day.
Speaker 1: And that's that's obviously what I try to do. And
Speaker 1: that's obviously as a parent, what you're trying to teach
Speaker 1: your son is you know things aren't going to go
Speaker 1: your way, but you know, if you can just compose
Speaker 1: yourself and come back to fight another day, that's there's
Speaker 1: pride in that you shout take to be proud of
Speaker 1: fighting whatever, whatever your challenge is. Yeah, coming back, how
Speaker 1: you keep going is one of the most important skills
Speaker 1: that you can have. And you know, watersheds interesting and
Speaker 1: we covered this sum in in Joe's book. But you
Speaker 1: guys are still a rock band. I mean, you're really
Speaker 1: popular here. When you play, you turn out a ton
Speaker 1: of people you were very close to, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: more major success. You are on a major label. You
Speaker 1: guys keep doing it. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: I see out of it is and I see this
Speaker 1: with you and a lot of things, your solo writing,
Speaker 1: your website, pencil storm, I see like a love of
Speaker 1: doing these things because you love doing these things. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody wants what they're doing to be viewed and to
Speaker 1: be successful. But one of the things I admire and
Speaker 1: you is you just keep doing creative work and if
Speaker 1: people are paying attention, wonderful and if they're not, okay,
Speaker 1: and you know, you're kind of doing it because it
Speaker 1: because you love doing it because it matters to you. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And it's definitely and I mentioned it earlier,
Speaker 1: and when I talk about like the parable, I can't
Speaker 1: overstate what it was like to be like basically starting
Speaker 1: a band when you're like an eighth or ninth grade
Speaker 1: and then you just did that from like the time
Speaker 1: you were fifteen or sixteen till like thirty five. So
Speaker 1: sometimes all a hard time communicating with my wife and
Speaker 1: I go to you understand, I spent most of my
Speaker 1: life in a van with the same five guys, Like
Speaker 1: it really impacted. It took a lot of my time
Speaker 1: and energy to do that. When that stopped, it was
Speaker 1: tough because I had this structure. I was used to
Speaker 1: band practice every night. I was used to doing all
Speaker 1: these this this everything was kind of went around the
Speaker 1: music and being in Watershed. Having said that, I think
Speaker 1: I'm wise enough to know that, you know, there's nothing
Speaker 1: more pathetic than someone trying to be who they were
Speaker 1: when they were twenty five when they're forty five. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I had to kind of take a step back,
Speaker 1: look at things fresh and be like, what can I do? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, my son's now three years old, my wife's working,
Speaker 1: you know, end up owning this small coffee shop and
Speaker 1: just being I think, being open to different ideas or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, like, how am I going to do a
Speaker 1: solo group? I'm just gonna do EPs. I can't do
Speaker 1: a record. And then I was doing websites and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: this is silly to do one website by myself. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of talented people writing great stuff on Facebook.
Speaker 1: What if they sent it to me at the coffee
Speaker 1: shop and I'll post it there and it'd be a
Speaker 1: great way to network and keep myself interested. At at
Speaker 1: the end of it, I'm just trying to keep myself
Speaker 1: interested in life because I think that keeps you on it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, that feeds the good wolf, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And if you keep around interesting people
Speaker 1: that you don't that inspire you, and um, you know
Speaker 1: you don't want to let down. You know, you'll you'll
Speaker 1: tend to do you'll raise up to their level. And
Speaker 1: I think I'm always trying to find people like that
Speaker 1: that inspire me. Um, So yeah, I don't worry about
Speaker 1: results very much. I mean, I think going back to Watershed,
Speaker 1: we've had so many close calls somewhere along the way
Speaker 1: you just laugh about it. I mean, you just And
Speaker 1: that's what I try to convince my son or anyone,
Speaker 1: like you know, if if you know, if you put
Speaker 1: a good shot up and it goes in, that's great.
Speaker 1: But if you put a good shot up and it
Speaker 1: doesn't go in, that's great too. You can't worry about
Speaker 1: the result, like you just someone you just gotta do
Speaker 1: it and and sometimes you can't not worry about it.
Speaker 1: But in general, like you know, well whired, I think
Speaker 1: that's one of the interesting things. Is very easy to say, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you shouldn't care about results and all that,
Speaker 1: and I believe it to be true. And then I
Speaker 1: find people who now feel bad about themselves because they
Speaker 1: can't stop worrying about results. And it's like you're gonna
Speaker 1: do it, and then you also do your best not
Speaker 1: to do it right, Like we're humans. I mean, of
Speaker 1: course you want to do your podcast. You look at
Speaker 1: the numbers like I look at it, and you have
Speaker 1: like a couple of bad days you're like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: like why am I even doing this? Or you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like whatever, But I think overriding that is,
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a passion about something, you
Speaker 1: just got to go for it and worry about the
Speaker 1: results later. But obviously I spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: putting out records that we're not well received and that
Speaker 1: kind of thing where I just said, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's a good song and if only ten people appreciated
Speaker 1: here tonight, I know it's a good song. And it's
Speaker 1: not my role on the planet to just have millions
Speaker 1: of people love the stuff I'm doing it. So I
Speaker 1: just gotta get over it because you don't want I said,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be the bitter art guy, right,
Speaker 1: Just get a job at Nationwide with benefits and be better,
Speaker 1: because there's no point in doing all this stuff if
Speaker 1: you're looking for positive reinforcement all the time, because you're
Speaker 1: just not. It's not that's not what it's about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And That's the other thing I see in in what
Speaker 1: you do and I certainly try and do. And it's
Speaker 1: a big topic that I talk about, you know, on
Speaker 1: the show and do many episodes on which is kind
Speaker 1: of like the middle way, right, And the younger me
Speaker 1: was like, you're either a rock star or you're nothing. Right,
Speaker 1: it was all or nothing. And what I love about
Speaker 1: what you guys do is it's, you know, you get
Speaker 1: to do a little of both. Right, You've got lives,
Speaker 1: you do those things, and yet you haven't let that
Speaker 1: go because it's something you care about and you love
Speaker 1: and you do what you can with it. It's kind
Speaker 1: of truly a middle ground of being sort of between
Speaker 1: being fully grown up and being a kid. You know,
Speaker 1: you're you're just keeping things in balance, which is so important.
Speaker 1: I think just because of our friendship when we were
Speaker 1: so close that I don't know how we just worked
Speaker 1: well together. But I think that's just the maturity. You
Speaker 1: see a lot of people that put the guitar in
Speaker 1: the closet, they never touch it again, And I think
Speaker 1: we had that breakthrough at some point we realized we
Speaker 1: can determine our own rules. Why I can water ship,
Speaker 1: we can play or not play, I can do a
Speaker 1: solo thing, and that's really frees you up when you realize, hey,
Speaker 1: I still enjoy it. Maybe we'll only do two shows
Speaker 1: this year, but maybe it'll be really fun and I
Speaker 1: still enjoy getting to be a dad, and I still
Speaker 1: will go to the coffee shop and I still get
Speaker 1: to do this, and I think that's I don't know
Speaker 1: where that came from, but it's at some point when
Speaker 1: you realize you're in control, and you know, maybe a
Speaker 1: younger person be like, oh, that's so lame that your
Speaker 1: dad and you don't play much anymore. That it's so
Speaker 1: shameful that you would just put it all away. I mean,
Speaker 1: I never planned on being a parent. It was never
Speaker 1: I never once in my life thought about being a dad.
Speaker 1: I've never even had a pet, Like I'm just busy
Speaker 1: doing that would just to me, that's all just distractions
Speaker 1: from whatever I think I'm trying to do. But then
Speaker 1: as you get older and you realize you like this
Speaker 1: and you like that, you're like, you know, I there's
Speaker 1: kind of room for everything, and you've got to give
Speaker 1: yourself a break, and is everything like water ships getting
Speaker 1: ready to play some shows. We're gonna play Confest and Columbus,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna go play Cleveland and Toledo. We haven't
Speaker 1: played in a while, and are we gonna be as
Speaker 1: great as we once were? Probably not on that level.
Speaker 1: It's a little sad because I can look at our
Speaker 1: old setless mcmahn. We used to just be such an
Speaker 1: awesome rock and roll machine. We could play three sets,
Speaker 1: we just But at the same time, you're still playing.
Speaker 1: You're older. I'm not Bruce Springsteen like, so I think
Speaker 1: you have to let yourself off the hook a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's still good and this is the best we're capable
Speaker 1: of right now, and it's better nothing. And you know,
Speaker 1: you're getting older, and I think about that stuff. I
Speaker 1: lost my mom at a fairly young age, and you're
Speaker 1: just like you die. So make sure I'm always thinking
Speaker 1: about you know, time is precious and as you get older,
Speaker 1: like even there, I don't want to see Tom Petty,
Speaker 1: was I gonna go. I'm like, you know what, he's
Speaker 1: getting older. I'm gonna go see Tom Petty. You know,
Speaker 1: we're probably both not gonna be around a whole lot longer,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's just a little more urgent see,
Speaker 1: so I think that's a big part of being older too,
Speaker 1: as you know, you can't stare yourself in the mirror
Speaker 1: and beat up yourself because your wrinkles or your faults.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're just human, and you know, give yourself,
Speaker 1: give yourself a break. Right. It's easy to just not
Speaker 1: to even try because you can just you know, self
Speaker 1: at it yourself to just you know, and if you fail,
Speaker 1: you fail. Like with the coffee shop, there a lot
Speaker 1: of times where I thought, you know, man, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: this is gonna work and I'm just gonna go bankrupt.
Speaker 1: I didn't have any other any other plan. All I've
Speaker 1: done is played music and like wait tables. And even
Speaker 1: then I was like, you know what, lots of businesses
Speaker 1: go bankrup. Yeah, so you know what's on the end
Speaker 1: of the world, and you know what I mean, if
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. And yeah.
Speaker 1: We had a couple episodes ago was Danny Shapiro and
Speaker 1: and she was talking. It was in the context of
Speaker 1: her marriage, but she said, basically, you know, I knew
Speaker 1: that everything was not okay, but yet at the same
Speaker 1: time it was also you know, it was okay, and
Speaker 1: I love like what you said there at the coffee
Speaker 1: shop and all that is this sort of underline like, yep,
Speaker 1: lots of bad ship might happen, right, things could go
Speaker 1: wrong with thousand different ways, and somehow underneath that there's
Speaker 1: some resilience or some or I think some of it
Speaker 1: comes from a recognition that that other stuff is stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, and I guess at this point I
Speaker 1: should mention too obviously my wife Aaron. I mean, for anyone,
Speaker 1: you know, who your partners is really really important and
Speaker 1: you're and she's been she's a counselor and we kind
Speaker 1: of did this together. When our son was first born.
Speaker 1: I was still trying to do music. We did Fifth
Speaker 1: of July and it was the record turned out really well,
Speaker 1: and she was like, you should tour on this record,
Speaker 1: and I said, I don't think I should, Like this
Speaker 1: is really if I do what, I'm gonna be gone.
Speaker 1: And I made it clearer like this is like trying
Speaker 1: to win the lottery. It's probably not gonna happen, and said, no,
Speaker 1: you should do it. So we got some financing and
Speaker 1: we got a van and we went and tour and
Speaker 1: I said, I gotta do this for eighteen months, no
Speaker 1: matter what if I say I'm gonna do it. I
Speaker 1: gotta do it because if it's gonna happen, it will
Speaker 1: only happen at the end, and I'm tony, it's probably
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. But she was talking like, no, you
Speaker 1: should go for it. Halfway into like eighteen months tour
Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't do this anymore. You need
Speaker 1: to stop because your son's here, You're not making any money,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I can't stop. We agreed to
Speaker 1: this and it was rough. It was a rough and
Speaker 1: it took us a while to come back from it.
Speaker 1: But that is an example of you know, you're when
Speaker 1: you're that moment where you're still young enough you think
Speaker 1: you can kind of do it all, and you maybe
Speaker 1: you bite off more than you can chow. We tried this,
Speaker 1: but now I've got to grow up and I've got
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to be, you know, a
Speaker 1: good partner and still do my thing. And you know,
Speaker 1: her credit, she gives me enough latitude to know this
Speaker 1: is like part of who I am, So you can't
Speaker 1: just yeah. It's not like I just welcome on day
Speaker 1: and said I'm gonna try stand up comedy. You know what,
Speaker 1: I mean like it's like, this is what it is.
Speaker 1: But obviously you have to have another partner when you're
Speaker 1: for at least I shouldn't say you have to. For me,
Speaker 1: having a strong person that I admire or be around
Speaker 1: that I don't want to let down pushes me in
Speaker 1: the right direction. Um, you know, you know between Owen
Speaker 1: and Aaron and I, so I should obviously. And then
Speaker 1: she's a counselor so there's a lot of Sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel like there's just too much. I say, this isn't fair,
Speaker 1: Like there's too much communication around here. This is like
Speaker 1: what your job is, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: like I feel like, you know you can't Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like I like can't battle through it,
Speaker 1: but you know who you And that would be the
Speaker 1: other going back to like your child and being a
Speaker 1: dad is who you put in around you. And then
Speaker 1: I mean the number one rule of life, Mom, show
Speaker 1: me who your friends are, and I'll show who you are.
Speaker 1: So that's what you watch your kid like a hawk.
Speaker 1: Who's going to be the spouse or other person? And
Speaker 1: I'm lucky I have a really awesome person that you know,
Speaker 1: really does a lot for me and supports me and
Speaker 1: all that. I hope I give that back, but I
Speaker 1: don't have to tell people out there listening you know
Speaker 1: you has gone on with the wrong person. You know
Speaker 1: you'll be in trouble and hurry and like even like Watershed,
Speaker 1: like we never smoked, were the only band because we
Speaker 1: just started so young. I always think about that. It
Speaker 1: was like we would have fun and we would party,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, we didn't want
Speaker 1: to let each other down. It was not acceptable to be,
Speaker 1: you know, a total funk up. That was not you
Speaker 1: did not mess up the show. That's how a good
Speaker 1: marriage should be. Relationship. I'm gonna have my fun, but
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be the one who let the team down. So, you know,
Speaker 1: and all that comes from, you know, the relationships you
Speaker 1: have around you and the people you surround yourself. Because
Speaker 1: I could be and I know you can. We were
Speaker 1: corruptible guys. We can get them, you know what I
Speaker 1: mean back in the day. We can get on the
Speaker 1: bandwagon pretty good. Oh yeah, and go, you know, get going.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's you know, you want to have
Speaker 1: those friends that I think I dated a bartender one time.
Speaker 1: It was a terrible idea, right, it's just not that's
Speaker 1: not the person I need. Yep, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'll provide this craziness someone else needs to provide like
Speaker 1: the sanity. Like that's a good mix for me and
Speaker 1: I know that. Well, speaking of your wife, let's transition
Speaker 1: to a different song. One of the things I think
Speaker 1: that you've done as a songwriter, and very few people
Speaker 1: I think are able to do it, is to write
Speaker 1: about what it is to be an adult in a
Speaker 1: powerful way. Right, It's so easy to move into cheesiness
Speaker 1: or cliche or there's just not there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of songwriters I found who are necessarily speaking in as
Speaker 1: directive terms about what it's like to be the age
Speaker 1: I am. And so you've got a song called the
Speaker 1: Words We Say, which is just an amazing song. We'll
Speaker 1: listen to a little of it here. Everything looks so
Speaker 1: glad and song new. Now the pain is faded with
Speaker 1: the memory and the way you used to smile at me,
Speaker 1: she'll feeling friesstraighted and it shows how misappinting. And everybody
Speaker 1: knows these are the words we say when we don't
Speaker 1: know what to say. These are the words we say
Speaker 1: when there's nothing left to say? Is the rave you?
Speaker 1: And this is not only long. You know that line
Speaker 1: that you know she's feeling frustrated and you're feeling disappointed.
Speaker 1: I assume that disappointment has something to do with your
Speaker 1: music career. Oh yeah, it was. I mean it was
Speaker 1: right after. That was one of the first things we
Speaker 1: did when that collision between being a parent and watershed
Speaker 1: really hit, you know what I mean where I was
Speaker 1: still committed to being on the road, but we were
Speaker 1: trying to raise a young son, and we were in
Speaker 1: a house and we're trying to pay bills and we're
Speaker 1: being adults. And then Watershed had stopped, so I was
Speaker 1: trying to feel my way and write some songs. Remember
Speaker 1: it kind of wrote it over at Mike Landolds. I
Speaker 1: was really excited and I came home and I like,
Speaker 1: played it. It does not feel well. I'm such an
Speaker 1: idiot that I thought she'd be like proud of me,
Speaker 1: and she was. She was like so like just taken aback.
Speaker 1: Every time I hear that song, I think of, like,
Speaker 1: what's it like to be Aaron? And again, this song
Speaker 1: is not um. It doesn't call her into question and
Speaker 1: anyway it's about I mean, the song is, you know,
Speaker 1: basically about once upon a time we were in love
Speaker 1: and this was really easy and now it's hard and
Speaker 1: I still love you, but it's hard and I don't
Speaker 1: know how to do it all the time. But I
Speaker 1: can see why. Yeah, I've done that before, written a
Speaker 1: song that I thought, well, this person would think, you know,
Speaker 1: they look at our situation and think, yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: way it is. It's really you know, you know, never
Speaker 1: has gone well yeah, I mean that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, it just it's um and
Speaker 1: I was, you know, haven't been a songwriter. You have
Speaker 1: to be. You have to put it out like anything,
Speaker 1: it's gotta be true if it's not even worth doing. Uh.
Speaker 1: But once again, it's still a pop song. It's not
Speaker 1: there's only time for one angle. It's not very nuanced.
Speaker 1: I mean, so of course, if you're writing a song
Speaker 1: that's gonna be you know, a little more down or
Speaker 1: something that's you know, it's it's not like and the
Speaker 1: verse like, oh but by the way, she's you know,
Speaker 1: she's still beautiful and I love you know, but you
Speaker 1: did that to some extent. That's the again, the part
Speaker 1: of that that is I find so powerful. Is not
Speaker 1: only is it about how you're stressed when she's around
Speaker 1: and she you know, how all the things that happened
Speaker 1: in the marriage, but there's also like the I Love
Speaker 1: You Part two, which which which adds that. Like it's
Speaker 1: a very short piece, but it's totally changes for me
Speaker 1: the tone of the song because it it makes it
Speaker 1: more um what it's really like. You know, you can
Speaker 1: paint things is awful, and you can paint things is
Speaker 1: good really easily, but painting them is both is and
Speaker 1: that's the art that I love that manages to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and it's you know, it's definitely a
Speaker 1: song that it's a special song for me. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, I to know where where it came from
Speaker 1: or where it happened or whatever, but uh, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as writing goes, I know, I try to
Speaker 1: stay current in the sense that, like I think we
Speaker 1: always have the same you kind of have the same
Speaker 1: experiences of emotion, whether you're playing Little league baseball or
Speaker 1: you're doing this with that, it's kind of the same
Speaker 1: through life. So you have to kind of jump in
Speaker 1: and grab them. And if I think if you stay
Speaker 1: honest to yourself, you can write a song when you're
Speaker 1: eighteen and you can play it next to a song
Speaker 1: you wrote when you're forty five and they'll still sound
Speaker 1: like the same boys. You're still the same person. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm I always can do it. I can't.
Speaker 1: It's hard. I don't write a ton of songs. There's
Speaker 1: no time for it. But I think if you find
Speaker 1: that that essential truth, you know, that's kind of floating
Speaker 1: around you, you can do a song that feels real
Speaker 1: in middle age, and you can play it next to
Speaker 1: a song you wrote when you're young and he's still.
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, it works. But I think that's part of
Speaker 1: being removed. Challenging yourself is to write about what you're
Speaker 1: going through now and not retreat to some cocoon of
Speaker 1: like where I was and I was thirty two, you know,
Speaker 1: or like in I don't think both people. Most musicians
Speaker 1: do it well. Like It's just that's my opinion, right there.
Speaker 1: There are some right and and I'm not saying, but
Speaker 1: a lot of the musicians I find who are older,
Speaker 1: they have managed to remain writing really great songs, but
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily they seems like they become less um
Speaker 1: biographical in some way. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it could happen, I mean to anyone, or I
Speaker 1: haven't really I'm trying to think who. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have really good answer for that. But you know,
Speaker 1: all I can say from my point of view is,
Speaker 1: you know, I just you know, I do. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a conscious effort. I just think that's just
Speaker 1: that's how my that's how my process works, like what's
Speaker 1: going on around me? Now? What can I speak to? UM?
Speaker 1: And go from there? And having said that was that's
Speaker 1: a song also that I probably wouldn't have written for
Speaker 1: a Watershed record. But once Watershed wasn't playing Joe was
Speaker 1: doing a book, I kind of freed me up to
Speaker 1: write about maybe something a little more hyper personal that
Speaker 1: wouldn't UM, wouldn't you know. I was just, you know,
Speaker 1: once again, I'm just doing it for myself. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like there was a record deal and my goll just
Speaker 1: work on this song, UM. And that just happened to
Speaker 1: be the song that came out in that moment trying
Speaker 1: to think of where we want to go now, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about one more song, but anything else
Speaker 1: direction wise you want to go here covering the parenting
Speaker 1: thing and just all that, and like said, having the
Speaker 1: friends around you. I'm thinking that's what really the wolf Like,
Speaker 1: It's like having reasonable habits, maybe not the best good habits,
Speaker 1: and having good people around you, and that kind of
Speaker 1: saves you from going to the bad wolf, because I
Speaker 1: I feel like I could go over. I never feel
Speaker 1: like I'm almost like, well, maybe maybe I just it
Speaker 1: all just falls apart. Yeah, maybe I just start drinking
Speaker 1: too much and just at some point I just round
Speaker 1: the towel. I'll have a few days where I don't
Speaker 1: feel motivated, and I'm like, well, maybe it's the end.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a good run. But maybe I'm
Speaker 1: just maybe I'm just meant to be the guy that
Speaker 1: sits at a bar down the street and just works
Speaker 1: at nine to five drop And I find that appealing.
Speaker 1: I could be a factory worker guy if I could
Speaker 1: just work nine to five and go to a bar
Speaker 1: and eat a pizza, not care about my health, and
Speaker 1: I could settle into that. Yeah, I think the I
Speaker 1: think the alcohol is the key part of that, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think about that and I'm like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I could do, you know, Like I have
Speaker 1: this vague I mean it's I have this idea that
Speaker 1: at some point, you know, i'll be really old and um,
Speaker 1: I won't have anything else to do that matters, Like
Speaker 1: I'll just be like I'm kind of done, right, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to write a book. I don't
Speaker 1: want to And I'm like, at that point, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get on this whole medical marijuana craze right like I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a great way for an addict
Speaker 1: to be thinking, but but I just sort of put
Speaker 1: it off, and uh, and I just come back to
Speaker 1: for myself over and over, like there's things I want
Speaker 1: to do that matter, and I for myself, I know
Speaker 1: that those things won't happen If alcohol and drugs are
Speaker 1: part of my life, that's it's over. And but then
Speaker 1: like you you've got to you know, you might be
Speaker 1: close to the edge, but you've always stayed away, even
Speaker 1: you've never been completely over the now. I feel like
Speaker 1: I have like said, like it'll be funny because thereon
Speaker 1: will be like you know, I don't keep any like
Speaker 1: liquor at home or anything because I like, I probably
Speaker 1: drink it. Like, why do you have like I don't
Speaker 1: want it around? You know, beer, Why don't you buy
Speaker 1: if you always get just one of your beers, why
Speaker 1: don't you buy like twelve because I drink, I drink
Speaker 1: all twelve, Like I'm aware of right now where everything
Speaker 1: like all that is. So that's where when I think
Speaker 1: about being a father to own, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel fairly confident in my age, and if I
Speaker 1: was going to go off the wheel, it was just
Speaker 1: gonna go off the tracks. What have happened? You know?
Speaker 1: But you know, you never know, you never know. But
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's where you know, I want to
Speaker 1: be like you know, don't you can be better than me.
Speaker 1: Don't be like me. I've got these vices. You know,
Speaker 1: you can, you know, probably do better than that. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, a lot of people that are creative,
Speaker 1: especially growing up, they kind of use alcohol or something
Speaker 1: to kind of spur that on. And for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I've never been that guy. Like I'm more sober when
Speaker 1: I have to play a gig, and a lot of
Speaker 1: musicians aren't they party. I'm not. I like I like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like to party when I'm not doing anything, and
Speaker 1: that's always been I find it not fun to have
Speaker 1: to work or create. I've never been one of those
Speaker 1: brilliant people that you know, can drink and come up
Speaker 1: with some amazing song. For me, it's always been very
Speaker 1: sober kind of work, like when I especially getting older now. Um.
Speaker 1: I remember we played a show last year and I
Speaker 1: think Owen came as Watershed and I was just conscious of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're a rock band and we have beers
Speaker 1: on stage and stuff to some degree, but I remember thinking, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have a beer. I don't want him
Speaker 1: to see me with a beer in my hand playing music.
Speaker 1: He sees me with a beer in my hand throwing
Speaker 1: baseballs or watching a game, but when I'm playing music,
Speaker 1: I want I don't want him to have this association
Speaker 1: and I don't need it. I don't need to have
Speaker 1: beer when I'm playing. Yeah, it is, I like it sometimes,
Speaker 1: but I don't need it. It can be such a
Speaker 1: strong association that, like I think for people who give
Speaker 1: up the alcohol and drugs, a lot of times the
Speaker 1: music goes to or has to go um, which I
Speaker 1: don't think it's true. It didn't happen for me that way. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I was probably more active musically after I
Speaker 1: got sober and with a band. But it was hard
Speaker 1: because I had never really done that sort of stuff
Speaker 1: in in a normal I didn't do anything in a
Speaker 1: normal stage, so I suppose everything was hard. But there
Speaker 1: is that there is that association, and I'm glad I
Speaker 1: was able to untangle it early because, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the things I've thought about more and more lately.
Speaker 1: It's just on my mind a lot of like what
Speaker 1: a gift it is to have something like music that
Speaker 1: I love to do. I have no aspiration musically at
Speaker 1: this point, like there's just nothing really there. It's mostly
Speaker 1: like I just really love doing it. And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that I have that though, because and not just
Speaker 1: something I love doing something I love listening to, Like
Speaker 1: having a thing in my life that I love that much.
Speaker 1: It's such a gift. It's your best friend. Like people
Speaker 1: that aren't there, like you know, like like my my
Speaker 1: wife Aaron, she know, she know, she's obviously she just
Speaker 1: like I have to have music on all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm always like musically thinking, I always always in the background.
Speaker 1: He's gotta put on music if we're gonna throw baseball's
Speaker 1: like if there if like I'm aware if there's no music.
Speaker 1: If I'm at the coffee shop but it's silent for
Speaker 1: a minute, my brain is like even I'm not paying attention,
Speaker 1: it's like, where's the music? Right? So it always has
Speaker 1: to be there. And it is something I don't know
Speaker 1: how it gets into your blood or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's you know, it's my favorite thing,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I love a lot of things, but
Speaker 1: crank cup of whatever, Springsteen replacements or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: I mean like and I just when there's moments we
Speaker 1: were like this is the best, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: and I think also it appeals to me because it's
Speaker 1: so imperfect, Like I was never good at math. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, the nice thing about music and a specifically
Speaker 1: rock and roll is just something you know, the sum
Speaker 1: is greater than the parts a lot, and it gives
Speaker 1: you a break, like like Joe writing a novel, Like
Speaker 1: there's no way around writing a novel, Like you've got
Speaker 1: to put all those words together into a big, long book.
Speaker 1: I would never be able to do that, but you can,
Speaker 1: you know, bang out a rock song with a couple
Speaker 1: of cool chords and help maybe just repeat the first
Speaker 1: verse the third time, you know, and it's still good.
Speaker 1: And I like that. It's a very forgiving in that way.
Speaker 1: It is a very forgiving medium. It may be dead
Speaker 1: because that's the only but now my son's starting to
Speaker 1: listen to rap, so we're going through the whole. I've
Speaker 1: already I've already been through all that. My kids are
Speaker 1: incredibly eclectic, Like there's an eclecticism in their music taste
Speaker 1: that there was not when I was young. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think that's just maybe across the board in general.
Speaker 1: But they're like, you know, rap and rock, and I
Speaker 1: mean they're just kind of all over the place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, my friend said, because Owen has always been
Speaker 1: a we love music, so we've seen the stones and
Speaker 1: I'm always playing music. He's always been a rock guy.
Speaker 1: And it was like, yeah, he's gonna get into wraps
Speaker 1: in middle school. And the other day, after baseball he
Speaker 1: got baseball practice, he got in the car with a
Speaker 1: couple of buddies. All a sudden he put on like
Speaker 1: Power one oh seven, Like I don't even know what
Speaker 1: that station is. No one was very aware. And then
Speaker 1: two weekends ago. I was driving the van for a
Speaker 1: baseball tournament and I was driving the guys and they
Speaker 1: wanted to put on stuff and I'm like, okay, put
Speaker 1: on whatever you want. I'm just the driver. I might
Speaker 1: your dad. And of course it was just like super
Speaker 1: offensive f moms and mombs and stuff. And I want
Speaker 1: because I wanted have been like he wants to go
Speaker 1: see Kendrick Lamar, and he had. He was very thoughtful.
Speaker 1: He said, no, this guy's legit, because I just wanted
Speaker 1: him to be able to tell the difference between there's
Speaker 1: a big difference between bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen, just
Speaker 1: like I assumed there's a big difference between Kendrick Lamar
Speaker 1: and whoever the other dude is. Whoever else is it there?
Speaker 1: So he made a very passionate plea and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, sure you can. You know my parents didn't
Speaker 1: want me. I didn't want to see Iron Maiden when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I want to go. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't be the dad that like down plays a
Speaker 1: whole form of music. That's right, Hey, find your own stuff, man,
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, so we're it's funny. We're just
Speaker 1: moving into that territory where you know, and I'm curious
Speaker 1: to like play me the good stuff, Like I want
Speaker 1: to know what's going what's going on out there because
Speaker 1: I don't, and you know you don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: especially musician Dad. You can't be the one who's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, even when I find it completely offensive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know, my parents weren't loving Ozzy Osborne
Speaker 1: come and blaring out of my room, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So that's just that's just the way it goes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've had to just let that, let that be also,
Speaker 1: and I've learned to like find the stuff that I like.
Speaker 1: Like some of it. I'm like, wow, this is legitimately
Speaker 1: like art, like I love it. Um. So yeah, well
Speaker 1: we are near the end of our time here, so
Speaker 1: um we're gonna fade this one out a little bit
Speaker 1: differently than normal. We're going to fade out with a
Speaker 1: song of yours called try a Little Faith, which is
Speaker 1: was on your Christmas record. But is it really a
Speaker 1: Christmas song? No? No, you know it's and uh you
Speaker 1: know listen as will hear. But I really like it
Speaker 1: because it it again is sort of that ambiguous middle
Speaker 1: ground right where you're saying, like, you know, for a
Speaker 1: lot of us, we don't really believe in God in
Speaker 1: the traditional sense. You know, you've got it. We know
Speaker 1: too much, right, and yet you know, try a little faith.
Speaker 1: What could it hurt? Which I just I love that
Speaker 1: that idea. Anything you want to say about it before
Speaker 1: we fade out to it, Well, I appreciate you bringing
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you brought it up. And it's funny because
Speaker 1: I know Aaron said, like, I don't really understand that chorus.
Speaker 1: She'll say to me, and I'm like, well, it makes
Speaker 1: sense to me, like in my head, like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't really the traditional things. I'm not sure I believe
Speaker 1: in all that stuff. But you know, it's almost like
Speaker 1: another parenting thing, do you know, try try a little faith.
Speaker 1: You know, it can't can't hurt, because I think there
Speaker 1: is I have faith. I don't know exactly what it is,
Speaker 1: but I have no doubt have it. I know. So
Speaker 1: it's hard to uh but um, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: guess once again with the song, I guess the song
Speaker 1: kind of says it. But yeah, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: it can't it can't hurt, you know, try it out
Speaker 1: and see where it takes you. But I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: sit here and lecture about specifics and that. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know that's another part of parenting and
Speaker 1: whole spiritual world. And you know, I was brought up
Speaker 1: Catholic and I was you know, I went to church
Speaker 1: in CCD every single week and all that stuff. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad i went I'm not a Catholic. Now, that's
Speaker 1: not my thing. I've readives at are but I think
Speaker 1: you know, with Owen, we've wrestled with that as like,
Speaker 1: you know, at least you want to have some exposure
Speaker 1: to something spiritual so when you get older you can
Speaker 1: make a decision about it. You have something to reject, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, but but on your own
Speaker 1: because it is a big part whether you like it
Speaker 1: or not, it's a big part of the world, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people they do care greatly about it.
Speaker 1: So you should have some understanding of it. And but
Speaker 1: that really doesn't anything to do with the song. You
Speaker 1: can just play the song, all right, Thanks, Thanks Hurt.
Speaker 1: Here's a song for the rest stop us. We cannot
Speaker 1: pretend because we know too much about where we're going,
Speaker 1: about where we've been Every second is a kif. Don't
Speaker 1: you wasted? We're all on the same in the air,
Speaker 1: how the dress you can see that? I've never believe
Speaker 1: there's only one way to get in to heaven, But
Speaker 1: you can't see the air yet. Song, how we can breathe,
Speaker 1: dry thettle fade down me? What could it if what
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