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Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are

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Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.

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Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a we're purpose driven platform, like we're

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Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you

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Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It

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Speaker 1: really is. What's up? I'm Laura and I'm Alexa Kristen.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to at Landia. We have got a great

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Speaker 1: guest today, Rachel Typographic, founder and CEO of mic Mac.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to have women entrepreneurs who are reshaping the

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Speaker 1: commerce and retail experience continue, so we asked Rachel to

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Speaker 1: join us. Two of my favorite things that part of

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Speaker 1: this retail blitz, I guess we'll call it going into

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Speaker 1: the Holidays shopping season is one the explosion of women

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Speaker 1: that are entrepreneurs, not just in shopping from a design

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Speaker 1: and product standpoint, but from a software an experience standpoint.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really telling that women are trying to

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Speaker 1: take back the shopping experience into their own hands, whether

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Speaker 1: in real life, as we talked about with Amanda in

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Speaker 1: the last episode or with what Rachel's do to kind

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Speaker 1: of minimize friction in the e commerce shopping experience. And too,

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Speaker 1: I just loved that I learned and interview you passed

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Speaker 1: me that she recently did on chatter that the original

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Speaker 1: name of Mick Mac was Chak and I thought that

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Speaker 1: that was great. But I'm a little and we argued

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Speaker 1: about that. We don't argue much, but we we disagreed

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Speaker 1: on that. Well, we do argue, but I know we

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Speaker 1: save everybody. We save everybody the argument. So, some cool

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Speaker 1: disruptions happening. I don't know if we would call them

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Speaker 1: cool disruptions. Maybe about for them for their cool disruptions,

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Speaker 1: but continued sort of turbulence in what could presumably become

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Speaker 1: an e commerce platform on Snapchat, if freaking should be

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Speaker 1: any commerce platform. And the fact that Snapchat didn't go

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Speaker 1: hard into actually creating ways for brands to come in

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Speaker 1: and sell product um automatically like ray DALs product is

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Speaker 1: amazing to me. I mean, there's so many opportunities. And

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Speaker 1: so today Snapchat announced that ten Cent bought a twelve

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Speaker 1: percent steak in the company and now owns twelve percent

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Speaker 1: of snap Um. I'm just sad about it because I

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Speaker 1: feel like Snap has and had so many opportunities to

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Speaker 1: diversify their content from like kind of traditional advertising, and

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Speaker 1: they've gone down the more traditional advertising route with media

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Speaker 1: company partners and publishers. I remember the lowest common denominator

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Speaker 1: right in scale and efficiency and looking to bring people

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Speaker 1: in in droves and volume and self created, but they

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Speaker 1: still have drop. But Laura, don't you agree that they

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Speaker 1: would still have droves of volume they just went for

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Speaker 1: the lowest common denominator in format. Yeah, well, they didn't

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Speaker 1: diversify the product portfolio within that low hanging fruit, and

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Speaker 1: so now you're in this phase where they're obviously selling

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Speaker 1: off stakes the company, but potentially missing alternative revenue streams

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Speaker 1: in the process, which I think people like Rachel Typograph

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Speaker 1: are trying to help them solve from a software standpoint.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems like it was a blind swing

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Speaker 1: early out of the gate that they could have capitalized

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Speaker 1: on early days when you have such a highly saturated

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Speaker 1: audience of people, you know, engaging many many times over

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Speaker 1: on the platform multiple times a day, especially in the millennials,

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Speaker 1: you know age demographic. So I think it's a huge

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Speaker 1: miss opportunity for companies that own the pipe, right like

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Speaker 1: Snap owns their pipe to not have thought through solutions,

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Speaker 1: like a software solution like what we're going to hear

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Speaker 1: that Rachel created. And I think that they still have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to be thinking down this line. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't see any reason why Snap couldn't become a

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Speaker 1: major commerce platform or software platform for commerce. Presumably it's

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Speaker 1: the inverted model, right, It's starting with content to get

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Speaker 1: to conversion versus Amazon starting from conversion with the potential

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Speaker 1: to build out content. And so I think what Rachel's

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Speaker 1: going to talk about is where scale exists. And you know,

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Speaker 1: she believes starting with performance is the way. You know,

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Speaker 1: all of these brands that start getting into the e

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Speaker 1: commerce space need to think about first. So with that,

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Speaker 1: Rachel Typograph, another killer female entrepreneur reshaping the retail world.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back, everybody, We're here with

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Speaker 1: Rachel Typograph, founder and CEO of mic MAC. Welcome Rachel,

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Speaker 1: Hey Rachel, thanks for having me. We're doing like a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like what I would say is the

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Speaker 1: min A series on the future of retail. So we

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Speaker 1: had Amando Latifian last week, Yeah, last week, last episode,

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Speaker 1: and we're getting into our favorite season, holiday shopping season,

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Speaker 1: and you and I love. We have two women that

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Speaker 1: are going to be on the show, you being one

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Speaker 1: of them. That is totally disrupting commerce and retail, and

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Speaker 1: that just makes sense. We control all the dollars. We

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Speaker 1: do control all the dollars. So tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about micmac. Because you started as one thing, you've pivoted.

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Speaker 1: Now you have a couple of products and a studio,

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Speaker 1: explained mcmac. So at mcmac, we create commerce experiences for

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Speaker 1: the social video generation. I truly believe that the future

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Speaker 1: of commerce is going to be deeply rooted and distributed

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Speaker 1: social video. When I launched the company June of two fifteen,

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Speaker 1: it was the same thesis, just a different execution. So

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Speaker 1: people called us QVC for the Snapchat generation. We were

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Speaker 1: an iOS app. I would release fun new videos where

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Speaker 1: I had comedians talking products. Everything was about impulse by,

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Speaker 1: but the business model didn't make sense. The reason why

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Speaker 1: the business model didn't make sense is big aha moment

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Speaker 1: that I think most of the marketing and retail world

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Speaker 1: have realized, which is the app boom is over. What

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Speaker 1: happens with apps is you have to sink costs into

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Speaker 1: customer acquisition, customer retention plus for me video production and

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Speaker 1: not owning my inventory, I was making pennies on every transaction.

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Speaker 1: So the model only could work at insane scale. And

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Speaker 1: you see, any company like mine that tried to go

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Speaker 1: mobile at first either change their business model or die.

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Speaker 1: Do you have people that you consider competitors like you

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Speaker 1: mean in the current business model, the old business the

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Speaker 1: current business model. So was there in the old business model?

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Speaker 1: I mean, in the old business model. At the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, my competitor was Amazon, right, like everyone

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Speaker 1: competitor is Amazon. Yeah, You're not the only one with

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Speaker 1: that problem right now? Exactly? You discover things and Micmac

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Speaker 1: and then I couldn't control the fact that you would

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Speaker 1: find some you know, black market third party pricing on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: Now that makes sense. Okay, So that was the old

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Speaker 1: business model. What's the new business model? So the new

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Speaker 1: business model is Listen, if I'm right, which I'm betting

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Speaker 1: my entire career and being right, the future of commerce

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Speaker 1: is going to be deeply routed and distributed social video.

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Speaker 1: No one disagrees with me. It's why we've now worked

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Speaker 1: with over three hundred brands the challenges. If everyone believes

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Speaker 1: I'm right, what's preventing everyone from operating like MICMAC today?

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Speaker 1: I totally agree? And why wouldn't Amazon just buy you? Bezos?

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Speaker 1: Are you there? So for us, we went on this

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Speaker 1: R and D quest and what I wanted to understand

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Speaker 1: is if some of the biggest brands in the world

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Speaker 1: were working with us or wanted to work with us,

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Speaker 1: what was preventing them from operating like MCMAC today. And

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Speaker 1: what I learned is that every company has the same

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Speaker 1: three pain points. Pain Point number one video production. People

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Speaker 1: feel like it's either too expensive, it takes too much time,

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Speaker 1: or it's the opposite. They've been created all this video content.

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Speaker 1: It's not driving their bottom line, and now they're like, huh,

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Speaker 1: maybe we've been creating the wrong types of video content,

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Speaker 1: so we need to beat the ship out of that

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Speaker 1: in a few minutes, keep going. I like this pain

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Speaker 1: point number two attribution. At the end of the month,

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Speaker 1: everyone reports last click. As a result, it's impossible for

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Speaker 1: people to answer the question of which video drove a

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Speaker 1: sale and Y. And then pain point number three, my

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Speaker 1: favorite one. In the year two thousand seventeen, the most

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Speaker 1: progressive brands in the world still say to me that

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Speaker 1: social media is still a small piece of the overall

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Speaker 1: eCOM conversion and if they are seeing it, it's only

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Speaker 1: coming from paid And what's that's about is the friction

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Speaker 1: that exists today between engaging with social content and that

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Speaker 1: end checkout experience. So when every brand is saying the

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Speaker 1: same thing to me, I'm like, all right, it's clear

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Speaker 1: I need to go build software to solve those problems.

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Speaker 1: So today you come to micmac to license our software

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Speaker 1: to solve those problems. I'll talk about our main product,

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Speaker 1: which is called mcmacattached. It's a commerce layer for vertical

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Speaker 1: video content experiences. As a result, the primary use case

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Speaker 1: is an environments like Instagram, Stories and Snap but it's

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Speaker 1: a web application, so it actually can live anywhere that

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Speaker 1: you put a U R out. So can you, like,

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Speaker 1: just if we're going to break it down into layman terms,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes my grandmother listens to the show, can you

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Speaker 1: walk us through what that looks like from the consumer

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Speaker 1: standpoint before you kind of dig into the software needs

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Speaker 1: and why this is a tremendous white space for you

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Speaker 1: from a software standpoint totally. So let's take my client

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Speaker 1: at bows you are following Bows on Instagram. You are

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Speaker 1: looking at their Instagram story and there's a call to

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Speaker 1: action to swipe up. You swipe up. You're brought into mcmacattached.

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Speaker 1: Here you can watch endless product videos. You can hit

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Speaker 1: more info see more product information. So that's product name,

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Speaker 1: price description, photography fee. You hit add to cart and boom,

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Speaker 1: that item goes directly into Bose's cart. Now, the reason

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Speaker 1: why we brought this product to market is that when

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Speaker 1: environments like Instagram, Stories and Snap came out, partners were

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Speaker 1: just linking to their regular old product pages. They were

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Speaker 1: experiencing bounce rate. Why you're going from these highly engaging

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Speaker 1: vertical video content experiences to your boring static more often

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Speaker 1: than not not optimized for mobile product landing page. Let's

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Speaker 1: just throw a mic drop right in there, so listen,

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Speaker 1: in this ecosystem, there's obviously a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: are in this space. Every other company and thought leader

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Speaker 1: in this space has been focusing on what I call

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Speaker 1: the pre click pre swipe. So how do we optimize

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Speaker 1: everything that's happening and feed from content, from targeting, from

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Speaker 1: ad buying. All that's freaking meaningless if the other side

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Speaker 1: is broken totally. Yeah, I'm focusing on the other side,

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Speaker 1: and no one else really knows how to connect it.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the numbers you're seeing early days?

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Speaker 1: By minimizing the layers deep, I need to go from

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Speaker 1: that initial experience. Yep. So we've completely inverted the bounce right,

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Speaker 1: so most people experience bounce rate with mic maciel experience

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Speaker 1: ten wo Right, So let's pivots to the content space

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Speaker 1: because I think you had some great points around why

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Speaker 1: these dots need to be connected. So my business is

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Speaker 1: two parts. One is software service what we were just

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Speaker 1: talking about, and then the other part is creative services,

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Speaker 1: which we call micmac Studios. All of my software clients

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Speaker 1: touch micmac Studios in at least one way, which is

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Speaker 1: optimizing their own creative because if you give me ship creative,

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Speaker 1: you will get ship results. My software can't fix ship creative,

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Speaker 1: so we need to fix it before hello Hello. I

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Speaker 1: just want everyone to hear that my software can't fix

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Speaker 1: ship creative, so we have to fix it before it

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Speaker 1: goes into my software, so that will always happen, and

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Speaker 1: we build that into sort of our offering of my

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Speaker 1: clients use us for original creative. Why we've created thousands

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Speaker 1: of product videos. We've flighted millions of video views against them.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you what causes someone to hit by

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Speaker 1: within nearly every consumer package good stuff category. Can you

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Speaker 1: give us an example? Sure? So? Uh. One of my

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Speaker 1: brand partners is Dr Brands can Care, family owned can

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Speaker 1: Care company in Miami, doing very well and revenue. Also

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Speaker 1: available at Sephar and Alta. They have a product called Magnetite.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect for the world that we live in. So

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Speaker 1: it looks like a mud mask. The piece of creative

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Speaker 1: has two girls. They're each putting the mask on each

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Speaker 1: other and they're literally doing it for the first time.

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Speaker 1: So the reactions are completely genuine. And if you ever

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Speaker 1: put this mask on your face, starts to tingle immediately,

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Speaker 1: and you have to keep it on your face for

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Speaker 1: five minutes and then you remove it with a magnet

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Speaker 1: and you watch it come off. So you see the

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Speaker 1: entire transformation from beginning to end. And we did it

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Speaker 1: in five second video clip, ten second, thirty seconds, just

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Speaker 1: like different variations, and we have the genuine reactions. I

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Speaker 1: wish you guys would have done that in the studio today.

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Speaker 1: We could have done Instagram. I need good skincare dr

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Speaker 1: brand skin care. So there's a formula, and we know

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Speaker 1: exactly what needs to happen within the first quartile, second quartile,

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Speaker 1: third and fourth and we do it over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. It's why I quit my job at

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Speaker 1: Gap and fell in love with the infomercial industry. There's

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Speaker 1: a freaking formula. There are a few people who really

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Speaker 1: understand that content truly is the sticky to brand product

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Speaker 1: or purchase, except Jeff Bezos right early on totally understood.

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Speaker 1: Now I still hear marketers saying, we have to do

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Speaker 1: great content. We have to do great content, but there

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Speaker 1: is no connection between that content and the bottom line.

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Speaker 1: Why when you talk to a marketer, what is the disconnect?

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Speaker 1: Why is that equation still so hard to create and

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Speaker 1: to also kind of like operationalize in a marketing team.

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Speaker 1: So when I was at Gap, the marketing leadership team

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Speaker 1: like never cared about direct response creative. They didn't even

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Speaker 1: see it, but that was what was driving the bottom line.

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Speaker 1: You want to know, it's completely changed that the mobile phone.

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Speaker 1: So if you just think about Facebook feed, Facebook is

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Speaker 1: now said to the world, Hey, the future of brand

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Speaker 1: marketing is direct response marketing. You will see a bud

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Speaker 1: Light Super Bowl spot next to Electric Razor for fifty

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Speaker 1: off video in the same feed. So, d your marketing

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Speaker 1: now is brand marketing before a CMO it Can you

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Speaker 1: go back repeat that? So the mobile feed has collapsed

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Speaker 1: the marketing funnel because you will have a I'm pumping.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm looking at Rachel right now and literally

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Speaker 1: pumping my fist. Yeah, if everyone would open up their

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Speaker 1: Facebook app right now, you would see a beautiful piece

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Speaker 1: of creative produced by Widen and Kennedy, your Droga five

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Speaker 1: and it's gorgeous, don't get me wrong, next to a

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Speaker 1: really shitty Razor ad or Mattress Company ad yep. Fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. That would have never happened in media. The

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Speaker 1: Drug of five creative would be in premium television or

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Speaker 1: an aspirational magazine, and that Mattress would be in the

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Speaker 1: back of the village voice. Right, it's all in one

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Speaker 1: place now, no one gives a fuck, and cmos have

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Speaker 1: to start not giving a fuck, and well they actually

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Speaker 1: have to give a fucking fight harder and understand. Not

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Speaker 1: only has the funnel collapsed, it's gotten narrower. Right, So

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Speaker 1: the path from one place to the next is so

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Speaker 1: much faster, and what you've done is accelerated it even

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Speaker 1: more so, Can I ask a question reach on the

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Speaker 1: super fascinating because you know there's still this fork in

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Speaker 1: the road in terms of brands who are still very

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Speaker 1: focused on brand building and then others that are obviously

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Speaker 1: gone the way of performance markets and depending on what

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Speaker 1: category and you're which probably leans more towards the ladder.

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Speaker 1: But are there brands who are talking you saying, since

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Speaker 1: this whole funnel has collapsed, what attributes are best practices

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Speaker 1: can we take from those product videos? Presumably things that

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Speaker 1: get people to click faster, knowing attention spans are shrinking

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Speaker 1: and feeds are moving faster, and all those sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: so that we can, in the first three seconds of

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Speaker 1: a brand video, for example, start to drop more explicit

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Speaker 1: direct hits on what that messaging. Maybe maybe I'm not

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Speaker 1: necessarily selling a product, but a director response or behavior

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Speaker 1: we want to elicit based on some of the best

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Speaker 1: practices you've learned from e commerce. Does that make sense? Yeah? Totally. Listen.

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Speaker 1: When you work with Micmac as a software client, our

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Speaker 1: first kickoff call, I'm like, I'm giving keeps to the

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Speaker 1: castle like literally, you can go fire your creative agency

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Speaker 1: now because I'm telling you exactly what you should be doing,

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Speaker 1: and it's highly applicable. And I'll say it here like

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Speaker 1: here is free knowledge. Go tell me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I encourage you to go produce videos this way and

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Speaker 1: tell me if I'm wrong. So first and foremost, and

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Speaker 1: it's again the reason why I quit my job at GAP.

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Speaker 1: It's what psychologists call a para social relationship. When you

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Speaker 1: have a host like flow from Progressive, you begin to

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Speaker 1: build an emotional connection with that person through repetition, and

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Speaker 1: psychologists call it a pair of social relationship because you

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Speaker 1: the viewer, believe that I the host of your friend,

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Speaker 1: and when you buy from me, you get the same

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Speaker 1: emotional benefit as friendship. So put a freaking human in

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Speaker 1: your video and do it often through repetition, and you

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Speaker 1: will begin to build that brand friendship relationship with the viewer.

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Speaker 1: That's one two In the first three seconds, put the

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Speaker 1: product in full view. You wouldn't believe how many creative

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Speaker 1: assets come across micmac where it takes seven to fifteen

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Speaker 1: seconds to see the product. We live in a world

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Speaker 1: where most people don't even watch the first three seconds

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Speaker 1: of a video, right. And then lastly, color and optimism.

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Speaker 1: If you put black and white creative out and do

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Speaker 1: an A B test against color creative, I promise you

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Speaker 1: color creative is going to perform better. That's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I mean those three simple things, those three simple things.

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Speaker 1: So you said something that I wrote down earlier that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you because I'm obsessed Mic mac

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Speaker 1: in audio because when you talk about what what did

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Speaker 1: you call it? Par I mean, this is the definition

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Speaker 1: of it. It is in you heard you do the commercials. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're the para social relationship. Why aren't we doing this

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Speaker 1: with you? I know, listen, we're talking to my My

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Speaker 1: biggest investor is and you know this is Gary Bannerchuk.

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Speaker 1: Oh well he's going hard into audio hard Why because

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Speaker 1: right now, and I'm not saying what you guys do

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Speaker 1: is easy, but there's very little competition. Right. So, investing

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Speaker 1: in audio right now, you're getting in on the ground

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Speaker 1: floor and you're going to get someone to listen for

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Speaker 1: forty minutes because the average US commune is forty minutes,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to build such a deep emotional connection

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Speaker 1: with your audience. You already doing it. Are you doing it.

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Speaker 1: We're all doing it, so I mean I should advertise

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Speaker 1: on this show. But but I'm talking about Mac, so

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Speaker 1: micmac attached should be an audio I know. So. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we were just on a panel with a guy who

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Speaker 1: has a you need to look this up, who has

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Speaker 1: a company called Instraumatic. I mean he's basically doing clickable

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Speaker 1: audio ads. Yes, Mac, Micmac should be going hard. He's

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Speaker 1: a cool guy. Stass. I'm sorry, but I just found

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Speaker 1: your competition. But that's where you should. I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: because no one's actually figured out how to take the

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Speaker 1: forget let's just call it live reads right now, just

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Speaker 1: live reads, because there's a lot of cool creative spaces

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Speaker 1: that we can do with host reads, and lots of

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Speaker 1: cool content and audio. But the fact that there is

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Speaker 1: no clickable and you people are listening on their mobile

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Speaker 1: phone for the most part until we get like everyone

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Speaker 1: listening in their car without their phone. But I'd also

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Speaker 1: love to know in this in the same sort of

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Speaker 1: behavior you're figuring out from visual cues right you talked,

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Speaker 1: what are the audio right exactly? What are sort of

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Speaker 1: those key triggers or pneumonics or phrases or you know,

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Speaker 1: there are certain things that Alex and I are are

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Speaker 1: building equity and around things that we'll do in a

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Speaker 1: few minutes, like our favorite Killed by d I Y.

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Speaker 1: Where when people start identifying with those things, what would

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Speaker 1: you call ax audio identity or language identity that people

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Speaker 1: you know have synonymous with the show. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: super interesting. Wait can we build this with you? I

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Speaker 1: want to build BECA. We tested our show. We pilot

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Speaker 1: the Dead series. We're going to pilot this because I

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Speaker 1: also would love to know because well, Apple podcasts only

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Speaker 1: gives do you know this like virtual purchases. Well no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: but they only give podcast networks and podcast hosts. You

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Speaker 1: only know certain amount of information. They hold back all

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Speaker 1: the data. Now they're going to be releasing more data

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Speaker 1: this fall, but it's still like not not what you need.

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Speaker 1: If you had your software in this space, we could

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Speaker 1: start looking at not just download times and understanding like

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Speaker 1: day parts. We could start actually dissecting content and understanding

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Speaker 1: audiences in a totally different way in the actual content,

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Speaker 1: not just the ad content well husiastic writing. I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: up we launched a new product today in data with

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Speaker 1: one of our clients that would be right for you

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Speaker 1: guys in this next So while we keep talking, I'll

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Speaker 1: pull it up. So, Yeah, the one thing, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's really important because Alex and I have been

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Speaker 1: on a crusade to basically, you know, kind of make

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Speaker 1: sure this industry does not bastardize um audio in the

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Speaker 1: same way we have digital in terms of display banner

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Speaker 1: with host reads and sort of prerecorded reads and kind

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Speaker 1: of explaining that the contextual nature, as you alluded to,

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Speaker 1: you know earlier, Reachil we're building equity, right, we're building relationships,

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Speaker 1: is very intimate in your ears environment, and for us,

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Speaker 1: we are adamant that preserving the integrity of that creative

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Speaker 1: and that context is more important than stuffing it with

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Speaker 1: prerecorded ads that become the sort of automated algorithm UM

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Speaker 1: that we've kind of you know, fallen behold into within digital.

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Speaker 1: So if we're able to prove that out, um, it's

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Speaker 1: something I would totally be interested in doing. So we

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Speaker 1: created this product called attach rate. You'll swipe up, you'll

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Speaker 1: be brought into this new layer. You can see endless

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Speaker 1: amount of product videos, but there's this little rotund of

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Speaker 1: call to actions. So right now I'm watching a skincare

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Speaker 1: video and there's a call to action that says I

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Speaker 1: try this, I can indicate between one or five stars.

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Speaker 1: If I would boom five stars, next one on her

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Speaker 1: skin is goals two stars. All of a sudden, a

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Speaker 1: brand is collecting all this first party data around people's

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Speaker 1: emotional reactions, just like it's a little mobile game if

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Speaker 1: you're highly engaged. You just saw before I served an

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Speaker 1: email capture unit where you can unlock a deal. Or

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Speaker 1: while all this is happening, I'm generating new audiences. So

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Speaker 1: if someone said I try this, they go into a

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Speaker 1: cookie pool that we provide to our audience to go retarget.

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Speaker 1: So that's just one of the SIXT can break down

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Speaker 1: content so that exactly so people are listening and I

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Speaker 1: was talking about, you know DRS new brand marketing, we

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Speaker 1: can be collecting all that first party data for you.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Or we can also say do you

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Speaker 1: have a question for Alexa and Laura or Ray each

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Speaker 1: all around Why d R is right, Why DR is

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Speaker 1: coming back for me? Interactivity is the new form of

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Speaker 1: creativity with all of the short form. I actually think

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Speaker 1: that d R in this capacity that you're showing us

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Speaker 1: and talking about is actually going to upend and gut marketing.

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Speaker 1: If you look at any early stage startup or any

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Speaker 1: of the darling companies that everyone talks about, their first

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Speaker 1: marketing higher is a performance marketer. And the powers that be,

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Speaker 1: the four companies that control the internet slash the world,

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Speaker 1: also don't want us to be able to do that

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Speaker 1: because this is how they profit. That's right. Like the

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Speaker 1: biggest I don't know if you guys have talked about

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Speaker 1: this on the show or how deep you get into

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Speaker 1: at tech, but the scariest thing right now that's happening

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Speaker 1: in attack that very few people are talking about is

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Speaker 1: the fact that Apple is going to be preventing third

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Speaker 1: party cookies within Safari. The entire attack industry is based

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Speaker 1: on the ability to cookie people, right, That's right. So

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Speaker 1: if we have not talked about that, but they take

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Speaker 1: that away, billions of dollars of companies are at stake

430
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Speaker 1: and we're all going to probably have to be paying

431
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: Apple to do that. Well, that's the whole point, and

432
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: that that's what I'm talking about. But I think they're

433
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: going that way with content. I think they're going that

434
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: way with a right content like visual content, audio, all

435
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: of that they're starting to pull they're starting to pull back.

436
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: So what does that mean. I think we gotta go

437
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: build our own pipes. Yeah, I mean I listened to

438
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: I listened to your Bendet's episode, and that's what he said,

439
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: right in terms of d I Y, He's like, I

440
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: want to build my own pipes. Yeah, you have to. Yeah,

441
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: I agree. Curious to know the Rachel typograph Nick mac

442
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: prediction for what we'll be seeing in terms of e

443
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: commerce holiday shopping this year. Yeah. I think that a

444
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: lot of marketers have done a good amount of experimentation

445
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: across the different social platforms and that they're going to

446
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: say during the holiday season, we can't take a risk

447
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: with our media, and they're going to go all in

448
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: on Facebook and Instagram, and the CPMs are gonna be

449
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: as high as they've ever been before. I think that's

450
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: going to be really interesting because that's where you are

451
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: going to see conversion. That's what people care about in

452
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: the holiday season. But because everyone's going to go all in,

453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: the prices are going to be insane. So I would say,

454
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: by Facebook stuff now, because it's about to shoot shoot

455
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: like crazy, and you saw what happened yesterday with Snap.

456
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean it's very just but twelve percent of them

457
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: because it's cheap. That's the other really interesting thing that

458
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: I have found actually is that because people are so

459
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: highly accountable for driving results and cute four, there's not

460
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: a large appetite for experimentation. So I actually don't feel

461
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: like people are going to be really inventive. I think

462
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: they'll be inventive with experiential marketing, but not in digital marketing.

463
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: And what are your thoughts in terms of DTC, you know,

464
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: online specific companies and how they're strategizing against some of

465
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: the big box retailers, which obviously come with multiple commas

466
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: and zeros during the holiday season in terms of does

467
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: that really matter anymore or do you see that volume

468
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: still by and large drives the bulk of conversion as

469
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: opposed to a smart content strategy for example, It's a

470
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: good question. Yeah, I think UM, the big box players,

471
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: the strategy is scale. It's encouraging people to increase increase

472
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: that average order value UM by offering them deals to

473
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: increase basket size and offer free shipping or click and collect.

474
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: I think with direct to consumer because they're competing for

475
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: the same attention, what they need to do and what

476
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: we continue to see people to do is that they

477
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: have to band together. So I think you're going to

478
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: see a lot of collaborations interesting where people then actually

479
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: are like putting. So I'm not saying I know this,

480
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: but let's just say direct to consumer and a has

481
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: a pixel, they have a like minded brand and maybe

482
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: a different category and sluggage and fitness, right, they exchange pixels.

483
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: They go and retarget each other's audiences. They do a

484
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: product collaboration, They do sweepstakes. Like if you're doing anywhere

485
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: between one and fifty million dollars in revenue, go find

486
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: other companies that are doing one to fifty million dollars

487
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: in revenue with a like minded audience, create a product

488
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: bundle and go remarke it to them together. No, I ah, Rachel,

489
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: so good? All right, so we're here. Kill by d

490
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: I y. It can be in the retail space, but

491
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. Yeah, what would you kill?

492
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: What would you buy? What would you do yourself? I

493
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: would kill the industry standard of last click attribution, Yes,

494
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: And I would buy the universal shopping cart? And I

495
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: would what does that look like? What's universal shopping cart?

496
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: I'm mean right now, if I would buy Apple pay

497
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: or I would buy PayPal, or I buy Shopify, or

498
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: I buy Amazon exactly and d I y, I would

499
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: launch my own skin CareLine. Oh, I don't know what's

500
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: the first product. I see you with Glossier as some

501
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: kind of like board member or something. The reason why

502
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: I say that is that everything that we've done at

503
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: mic mac, I know the exact type of product that

504
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: sells in this format, and I can absolutely launch a

505
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: direct to consumer social video consumer product brand knowing what

506
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: me know, what's your first product? Uh, it'll probably be

507
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: a product that removes oil from your skin and trying

508
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: to come up with a clever name for it. But

509
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: we already have one. Um Rachel typograph amazing conversation. Where

510
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: can people reach you for these free audio pilots that

511
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna be doing. My email is Rachel at micmac,

512
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: dot tv, AM k M A k M I k

513
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: M A k dot TV and one plug. If you

514
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to go here, Rachel speak Yes, brilliant, brilliant,

515
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: Thanks Rachel, Rachel, I'll have a good thank you thanks.

516
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: Episode twenty in the books. It's in the books. I'm

517
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: getting really excited for the holidays. I've got to think

518
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: about what I want to buy you. Now it's your

519
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: birthday and it's my birthday. First of all, I suck

520
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: at buying presents, and I have been doing over what

521
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: to get you for like weeks, and I get to

522
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: a point where I just get annoyed and I'm like,

523
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: I should just ask her, So what do you want?

524
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: What do you want for your birthday? I think I'll

525
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: make you a pinterest sport. My birthday is November thirty,

526
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: so we have a little bit of fun. It's too

527
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: much effort. I'm also thinking about doing a fundraiser for

528
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: my birthday. This is a new thing I've been seeing

529
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: people do on Facebook where they're donating to a cause

530
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: for their birthday. So I'm thinking about starting something like that.

531
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: So maybe it's something we can share with Atlandia. Okay,

532
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: I love that idea. UM. So on that note, Laura's

533
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: birthdays coming up at Landia, which are a happy birthday?

534
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: What is it? Um? Thank you Cameron Drew's we Love You,

535
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: Cameron Drew's we Love You Cameron not turk, Andy Bowers,

536
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: all of our friends and family epanically and Atlantia keep

537
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: talking to us. We're getting awesome. Emails, lots of great tweets. Yes,

538
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: we love the emails. We've been getting awesome ones from

539
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: a lot of college graduates, people looking for their first

540
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: job or their next job. Keep hollering at us at

541
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: Landia Podcast at gmail, or you can find us on

542
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: Twitter out Atlantia Podcast. We're totally opening to connecting the

543
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: dots for our listeners. Thanks for following, and we'll be

544
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: back in two weeks. M Full disclosure, our opinions, our

545
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: own