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Speaker 1: I can't believe it's the last episode.

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Speaker 2: I can't either.

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Speaker 3: It feels like the start of this semester was like

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Speaker 3: twenty years ago, but then also yesterday.

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Speaker 1: No sense of time here. We've covered quite a few

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Speaker 1: things this semester, but the thread that has been just

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Speaker 1: tying it all together has been COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Every single episode has been COVID adjacent because everything has

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Speaker 3: been touched by this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, back in February, we did not know it would

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Speaker 1: be like this.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, I wasn't ready.

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Speaker 1: It was maybe the first week of February when we

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Speaker 1: interviewed doctor Kismikia Corbett at the NIH and we saw

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Speaker 1: everybody ramping up their efforts, working late, and we felt confident.

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Speaker 1: We felt like the infrastructure was there. Based on what

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Speaker 1: we saw, we said, surely the CDC will screen people.

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Speaker 1: That's nothing new, That's what they're supposed to do, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's where we left season two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and imagine, to our souprise, everything went completely left

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Speaker 3: after that.

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Speaker 1: And some of you guys reached out. You said, hey,

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Speaker 1: have really changed since your last episode. When are you

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Speaker 1: gonna do something different? When are you gonna tell people

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Speaker 1: what's going on. So here we are.

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Speaker 3: I'm TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is

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Speaker 3: Dope Labs. Coronavirus has been like a pressure cooker on

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Speaker 3: all things, all of the cracks in the foundation, all

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Speaker 3: of the deficiencies in our infrastructures. It was brought to

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Speaker 3: light because of the pandemic, things that we probably may

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Speaker 3: have never found out in our lifetime or in this generation.

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Speaker 3: Coronavirus said, here it is. I'm trying to light on

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Speaker 3: it right now.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is a coronavirus update. Is about the advances

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Speaker 1: in science and the public health plans to help communicate

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Speaker 1: those advances.

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Speaker 3: And what we want to do in this episode is

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Speaker 3: better understand what has happened since COVID began, specifically from

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Speaker 3: a science communication perspective.

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Speaker 1: Everybody became an expert. There's information everywhere, people are making

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Speaker 1: their own graphics, all kinds of things. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: know what to believe. And so what we want to

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Speaker 1: do is do a hard reset to say here's where

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Speaker 1: we are and here's what's coming next. So let's jump

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Speaker 1: into the recitation. What do we know?

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Speaker 3: I think one thing that we do know is that

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Speaker 3: we are experiencing another spike in COVID cases, so people

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Speaker 3: being admitted into the hospital and deaths are all on

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Speaker 3: the rise right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really interesting. If you look at a map,

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Speaker 1: the Midwest is being hit particularly hard, Wisconsin, North and

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Speaker 1: South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, the whole area is dark red.

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Speaker 3: In the US, there have been over twelve million COVID

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Speaker 3: cases and two hundred and fifty seven thousand, sixteen deaths.

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Speaker 1: The vaccines are here and things are happening. On November thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: Moderna submitted an application to the FDA for authorization of

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Speaker 1: this COVID nineteen vaccine, and then another committee just decided

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Speaker 1: healthcare workers and nursing home residents will be the first

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Speaker 1: people to get the coronavirus vaccines. Yeah, that's very true.

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Speaker 3: And some folks are excited and some folks are not

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Speaker 3: so excited about the vaccine rollout.

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Speaker 1: So with that, what do we want to know?

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Speaker 3: What do we need to know about these new vaccines

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Speaker 3: that are going to be available what seems like very soon.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this is one of the first urgent

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Speaker 1: worldwide rollout of a vaccine, and I think people need

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Speaker 1: to understand this is not going to be like a

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Speaker 1: free for all, Right, how is this going to be distributed?

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Speaker 3: Back in twenty nineteen, we talked about vaccine hesitancy in

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Speaker 3: one of our episodes. So, when it comes to vaccines

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Speaker 3: and getting vaccinated, there's like three flavors. There are people

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Speaker 3: who are all the way on one end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 3: and they will not get a vaccination regardless of the circumstance.

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Speaker 2: There's no way you can convince them.

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Speaker 3: Then you have people who will get the vaccine as

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Speaker 3: soon as it's available. But then you have this huge

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Speaker 3: chunk in the middle of people who are vaccine hesitant.

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Speaker 3: I want to know how that has changed with the coronavirus.

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Speaker 3: I'd imagine that people are feeling a little bit different

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Speaker 3: about being vaccinated themselves for COVID.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really good point vaccine hesitancy

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Speaker 1: as it relates to coronavirus, vaccine hesitancy broadly, and has

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Speaker 1: the game plan changed since twenty nineteen for combating vaccine hesitancy?

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Speaker 3: And then I guess the question that I think everyone

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Speaker 3: has now that we've all experienced a pandemic, will there

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Speaker 3: be another pandemic like COVID? Nineteen and what have we

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Speaker 3: learned that can get us through a pandemic better the

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Speaker 3: next time?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's jump into the dissection.

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Speaker 3: Our guests today are doctor Rue, Polly Lamay, and Molly Sour.

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Speaker 4: I'm Rue Poly Lamay. I am a Associate scientist at

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Speaker 4: the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, and I

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Speaker 4: am in three departments Department of International Health, Epidemiology, and

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Speaker 4: Health Behavior in Society.

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Speaker 5: I'm Mollie Sower and I'm a research associate at the

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Speaker 5: International Vaccine Access Center and the Department of International Health,

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Speaker 5: also at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

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Speaker 1: Doctor LeMay is a repeat guest. We had her back

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Speaker 1: on Lab four, Protect Your Neck, which was all about vaccines.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and she told us all about how vaccines work

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Speaker 3: and what happens when you take a vaccine. The vaccine

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Speaker 3: is basically like a movie trailer. It's a preview of

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Speaker 3: the viruses to come so you can recognize it when

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Speaker 3: it actually comes. So it just prepped your body and says, hey,

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Speaker 3: be on a lookout for this dude that's going to

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Speaker 3: show up or who might show up.

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Speaker 1: So we had doctor LeMay in Lab four with Protect

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Speaker 1: your Neck. That was the introduction of vaccines. Then we

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Speaker 1: had a chance to talk to doctor Kismikia Corbett who

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Speaker 1: was working at the National Institute of Health, and she

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Speaker 1: was working on the coronavirus vaccine that's actually the Maderna

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Speaker 1: vaccine that's been getting a lot of press lately, and

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Speaker 1: so we wanted our guests to walk us through how

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Speaker 1: we got to a vaccine being ready for public distribution

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Speaker 1: so soon from February to December.

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Speaker 4: Here in the United States, what we can normally do

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Speaker 4: from an administration perspective is do something called an emergency

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Speaker 4: Use authorization through the FDA, and essentially what that does

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Speaker 4: is that speeds up the process to get some sort

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Speaker 4: of therapeutic to the market.

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Speaker 1: People are hearing emergency Use authorization, it's easy to think

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Speaker 1: this has been rushed through, and it doesn't help that

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Speaker 1: the administration called this committee Operation Warp Speed.

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Speaker 3: So what they're doing with the Emergency Use authorization is

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Speaker 3: that they are shortening the process to approve the vaccine

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Speaker 3: so that everybody can get it faster. This pandemic is

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Speaker 3: going on, lots of people are getting sick, lots of

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Speaker 3: people are dying, so there has to be a response

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Speaker 3: to that, like, we can't have the same process that

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Speaker 3: you would normally go through for a full FDA approval.

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Speaker 1: But in fact, the emergency use authorization allows the FDA

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Speaker 1: to focus more on shepherding this through, right, so devoting

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Speaker 1: more resources here to this process. Whereas normally you have

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Speaker 1: to wait they have a certain amount of time. They

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Speaker 1: can now put everybody on this project. So for some

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Speaker 1: of the rules that used to exist for these medical countermeasures,

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Speaker 1: they might not be so necessary, or there may be

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Speaker 1: some things that you don't actually need, or waiting periods

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Speaker 1: that you can reduce in a safe manner. It helps

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Speaker 1: you get to this place where you can have broad

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Speaker 1: distribution earlier.

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Speaker 4: So the reason that this is important for us when

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Speaker 4: we're talking about this is that we can essentially break

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Speaker 4: the cycle of the pandemic in two ways. Right, people

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Speaker 4: can be exposed to the virus or they get a vaccine.

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately a lot of people have already been exposed to

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Speaker 4: the virus. We can increase her immunity by getting people

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Speaker 4: the vaccine. And so with these two things together, we

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Speaker 4: will be able to fingerish crossed. We will be able

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Speaker 4: to break out of the pandemic. Because I think we

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Speaker 4: talked about last time, what does a virus want to do?

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Speaker 4: The literal reason that it's alive is because it wants

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Speaker 4: to replicate. If there is not a host for it

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Speaker 4: to replicate, it cannot continue to live and it dies out.

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Speaker 4: So that's how we control outbreaks.

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Speaker 1: So when we think about controlling the outbreak with the vaccines,

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Speaker 1: and you consider this emergency use authorization, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of things you want to understand to measure how

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Speaker 1: well a vaccine works.

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Speaker 5: You've probably heard the term efficacy and heard the term effectiveness.

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Speaker 5: We're throwing around a couple of different terms sort of interchangeably,

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Speaker 5: but there is a bit of a difference that's important

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Speaker 5: to note.

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Speaker 3: Efficacy is basically how well the vaccine works in the last.

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Speaker 5: So when we're talking about the information coming out of

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Speaker 5: these clinical trials, these human trials that have been done

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Speaker 5: over the last several months, we're looking at efficacy, which

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Speaker 5: is in a.

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Speaker 4: Controlled setting where we're setting.

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Speaker 5: Up specific individuals who are receiving a placebo and the

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Speaker 5: receiving a vaccine.

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Speaker 4: We are getting a measure of how.

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Speaker 5: That vaccine is working to prevent infection or prevent disease

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Speaker 5: among those individuals.

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Speaker 3: The effectiveness of a vaccine is once a vaccine is

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Speaker 3: put out into the population, how well it works in

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Speaker 3: the real world.

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Speaker 5: When we go into a broader population, we can start

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Speaker 5: to measure effectiveness, which is sort of taking out that

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Speaker 5: controlled component of the environment that we're testing.

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Speaker 1: It in effectiveness. We can't know that until the vaccine

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Speaker 1: is distributed because there are a couple of other things

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Speaker 1: that we don't consider host factors. So we're the hosts,

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Speaker 1: humans are hosting this virus. When you get infected with coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: are you older, are you younger? Which underline medical conditions

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Speaker 1: have better outcomes after being vaccinated. Do you have a

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Speaker 1: history of other prior infections? What's your other vaccination record

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Speaker 1: that may give you some additional benefits, right, And so

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Speaker 1: we'll start to get more of this data when we

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Speaker 1: get a larger data set. We can only get a

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Speaker 1: larger data set when we distribute this broadly. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: need more people to participate so we can kind of

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Speaker 1: understand some of these host factors and how they're involved.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is virus factors. It may depend on

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Speaker 1: your viral load, what you're exposed to.

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Speaker 3: If other people in your community are more likely to

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Speaker 3: get the vaccine. The effectiveness in your community may be higher,

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Speaker 3: but then in another community it might be lower.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's basically cocooning. If everybody around you is vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: the virus can't replicate in them and they can't give

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Speaker 1: it to you.

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Speaker 2: My cousin did this.

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Speaker 3: We had a Christmas party in Chicago and my cousin

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Speaker 3: had just had a baby. She told us, if you

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Speaker 3: plan on being around the baby, which we all did

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Speaker 3: we're very excited, you have to get a flu shot.

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Speaker 3: So we all got flu shots.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so what your cousin is doing, She's saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: my baby can't get a flu shot because the flu

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Speaker 1: shot isn't recommended for anybody under six months, So you

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Speaker 1: guys have to get a flu shot so you won't

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Speaker 1: be a host that brings the flu virus to my child.

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Speaker 1: She was making sure that you guys were creating a cocoon.

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Speaker 3: So we asked doctor LeMay about the specific vaccines that

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Speaker 3: have been recently developed to combat the coronavirus, What are

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Speaker 3: their efficacy rates and what should we expect.

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Speaker 4: So in the case of vaccines, the good news is

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Speaker 4: is for both the Pfizer product as well as the

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Speaker 4: Maderna product. Is that when we are seeing these initial

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Speaker 4: numbers right of ninety percent effectiveness ninety five percent effectiveness.

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Speaker 4: To be honest, I think most of us that work

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Speaker 4: in vaccine science these numbers are astonishing.

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Speaker 3: So the Maderna vaccine has an efficacy rate of ninety

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Speaker 3: four point five percent. The Fiser vaccine has an efficsc

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Speaker 3: rate of ninety five percent. So on November twenty third,

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Speaker 3: Astrazenica announced their vaccine had an average efficacy rate of

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Speaker 3: seventy percent. Remember that's in the lab doing the tests.

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Speaker 3: Moderna came out and said they had a vaccine with

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Speaker 3: an efficacy rate of ninety four point five percent, and

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Speaker 3: then Piser came out and said that they had a

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Speaker 3: vaccine with an efficacy rate of ninety five percent. This

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Speaker 3: sounds very good ninety five cent a in my book,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know what that means in comparison to

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Speaker 3: other vaccines.

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Speaker 5: I believe the typical effectiveness for the flu vaccine is

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Speaker 5: somewhere around fifty to sixty percent. Measles is a vaccine

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Speaker 5: that is much higher in the levels of effectiveness and evaccine,

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Speaker 5: but it has to be because we have to have

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Speaker 5: such community conferred among these communities to actually protect people.

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Speaker 1: I think the flu vaccine is a perfect comparison to

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Speaker 1: what we know about the coronavirus vaccine. The effectiveness, remember

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Speaker 1: that's in the community. Out in the real world, the

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Speaker 1: effectiveness of the flu vaccine is lower, is fifty to

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Speaker 1: sixty percent. And the reason that kind of changes is

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Speaker 1: because of host factors. So did you get your flu

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Speaker 1: vaccine early? Did you go to Walgreens like they told

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Speaker 1: you to get that flu vaccine? Did you wait too late?

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people are waiting later for the

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Speaker 1: flu vaccine. That's more available host for that virus to

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Speaker 1: replicate in, and the effectiveness in the community would be

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Speaker 1: lower because the flu has already spread earlier in the season.

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Speaker 1: Another thing to consider is that vaccines have to be

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Speaker 1: produced ahead of time for distribution, So they're forecasting. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: based on what we see in the beginning of the year,

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Speaker 1: these are the flu strains that we think we need

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Speaker 1: to vaccinate against. Now things change and the flu strains

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Speaker 1: that become most rampant aren't in that vaccine, then the

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Speaker 1: effectiveness is lower. So by getting vaccinated earlier, you can

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Speaker 1: influence the overall effectiveness of the flu vaccine. You have power.

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Speaker 3: That is such a great comparison because it really puts

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Speaker 3: into perspective how well this vaccine can work if we

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Speaker 3: all kind of buy into it. But what we know

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Speaker 3: is that not everyone's gonna take the vaccine right. There

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Speaker 3: are a lot of people who are vaccine hesitant. We

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Speaker 3: talked about vaccine hesitancy in the Protect Your Neck episode

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Speaker 3: and the reasons why people are vaccine hesitant, but the

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Speaker 3: reasons for why people don't want to take the COVID

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Speaker 3: vaccine they're different pre COVID.

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Speaker 4: You know, generally people's concerns fell into four categories when

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Speaker 4: we're talking about hesitancy. So one would be ingredients. People

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Speaker 4: were really concerned about ingredients that are in vaccines. Two

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Speaker 4: would be things related to the schedule, and this is

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Speaker 4: related to children vaccines. People are just concerned about the

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Speaker 4: number of vaccines and doses that children were getting. The

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Speaker 4: third thing that we found is sort of I think

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Speaker 4: the elephant in the room misperception that vaccines can cause

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Speaker 4: serious adverse events such as autism, even though this has

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Speaker 4: been refuted soundly over and over and over again that

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Speaker 4: there is no causal link at all between exposure to

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Speaker 4: a vaccine and autism. And the fourth is really risk perception. Right,

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Speaker 4: so people are like, we've never seen polio before, why

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Speaker 4: do I need to get a polio vaccine?

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Speaker 1: That is a really good point. People are like, we've

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Speaker 1: never seen polio before, why do I need to get

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Speaker 1: a polio vaccine? And I think we saw this same

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Speaker 1: type of mentality with I don't know anybody who has coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: why do I need to wear a mask? Exactly now

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Speaker 1: in our post COVID world, we're seeing that same vaccine hesitancy,

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Speaker 1: but for different reasons. One of those is scientific mistrust.

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Speaker 3: That is such a good point, and Zakiah and I

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Speaker 3: wrote an article in Scientific American about this topic, about

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Speaker 3: why folks are vaccine hesitanting. We'll put a link in

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Speaker 3: the show description and in our show notes. Go check

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Speaker 3: out that article. It's called why so many ers are

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Speaker 3: skeptical of the coronavirus vaccine?

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Speaker 1: And some of the main points that we hit in

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Speaker 1: that editorial. Doctor LeMay also mentions that she and her

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Speaker 1: other public health communicators that they're considering those same things.

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Speaker 1: The first of these is distrust in information.

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Speaker 4: I don't know who came up with this name Operation

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Speaker 4: Warp Speed, but it does not convey a sense of

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Speaker 4: like systematic scientific thoroughness with regards to the process. That

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Speaker 4: science has taken a backseat. You could see when administration

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Speaker 4: officials would come up and say something, and then doctor

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Speaker 4: Fauci would come right after and say, well, actually that's

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Speaker 4: not exactly right. So I think it is sowed. I

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Speaker 4: would say this distrust.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, for real, let's call a spade a spade.

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Speaker 3: The administration really fumbled the ball.

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Speaker 1: If I think about what we were expecting based on

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Speaker 1: our visit to NIH in February, and what we got

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Speaker 1: is like how it started and how it ended up.

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Speaker 1: That's not right, right, that's not right exactly.

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Speaker 3: Like if you go back and listen to that episode

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Speaker 3: Don't Pass the Corona, we sound very relaxed when we're

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Speaker 3: talking about coronavirus.

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Speaker 2: We're like, wash your hands, wash your hands, cover your

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Speaker 2: mouth when you cough with your elbow.

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Speaker 3: We sound very relaxed, like, oh, you know, it'll be fine,

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Speaker 3: everything will be fine. And if we had known what

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Speaker 3: was going on behind the scenes, I'm like, panic, panic, panic.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the thing, right, and that's what

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Speaker 1: doctor Lamay is saying when she says the science took

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Speaker 1: a backseat because we were there with the scientists who

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Speaker 1: were working on that ninety four point five percent efficacy

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Speaker 1: vaccine in the same building, right, And when we saw that,

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, yes, I have full confidence. Right absolutely,

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Speaker 1: the lab coats on the ground knew what was going on.

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Speaker 1: They knew what needed to happen. They had the right information.

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Speaker 3: And they were were king honey. We were there late.

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Speaker 3: I was like, it is dinner time. These people are like, okay,

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Speaker 3: let's do one more. I'm like, well more what I'm hungry?

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Speaker 1: I said, If I see another mini prep, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's time for me to retire to the boudoir.

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Speaker 1: And so I think seeing that gave us this sense

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Speaker 1: of comfort, and because we knew that potential, it felt

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Speaker 1: even worse to see it all just crumble in execution.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's part of why people still have

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Speaker 1: some of this hesitancy, because even if they trust the science,

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Speaker 1: they don't trust it as administered in the right way

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Speaker 1: or that is not politicized or being held hostage for

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Speaker 1: political motivations, especially in an election year.

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Speaker 4: And we were looking at tracking of how hesitancy has

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Speaker 4: changed related to COVID from March until about now, and

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Speaker 4: what we have found is that confidence or trust in

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Speaker 4: the vaccine development process have dropped by an average of

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Speaker 4: about fifteen percent. There is this perceived political influence, this

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Speaker 4: fact that it's an expedited timeline, even though, as we

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Speaker 4: try to communicate as clearly as we can, even though

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Speaker 4: it's expedited, it's still the exact same steps that any

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Speaker 4: sort of product would go through with regards to vaccine development.

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Speaker 4: So I think all of these factors together have caused

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Speaker 4: this huge change and hasency.

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Speaker 2: That is such a good point.

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Speaker 3: And I think another reason why folks are feeling unsure

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Speaker 3: about the COVID vaccine is because it's a two dose vaccine,

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Speaker 3: so that means that you would be getting two different

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Speaker 3: injections and that's something that most people are.

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Speaker 2: Not used to.

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Speaker 1: And this is changing very quickly. When we wrote that article,

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Speaker 1: it was around fifty percent. Now we're talking two thirds

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Speaker 1: of people, so what sixty seven percent? We need a

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Speaker 1: harder reset. We got to turn some things around very quickly.

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Speaker 3: This widespread hesitancy around the COVID vaccine has really serious implications.

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Speaker 3: For trying to achieve community protection or herd immunity.

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Speaker 5: We know that as much as two thirds of the

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Speaker 5: population is already saying they're not going to get a

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Speaker 5: vaccine for the foreseeable future at least. What does that

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Speaker 5: mean for our ability to control the pandemic and to

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Speaker 5: control these things that people are also raising concerns about.

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Speaker 5: So the longer it takes us to get a vaccine

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Speaker 5: to enough people, the longer we're going to need to

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Speaker 5: keep these other restrict like masks, like controlling social gathering

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Speaker 5: things like that, which are similar interventions and areas where

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Speaker 5: people are raising concerns as well.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break and when we

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Speaker 3: get back, we're going to talk all about what we've

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Speaker 3: learned so far and what the new game plan should be.

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Speaker 1: So we're back and we're talking vaccine hesitancy and what

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Speaker 1: the new strategies should be. So right before the break,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about the increase or the rise in

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Speaker 1: vaccine hesitancy over the past couple of months.

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Speaker 3: According to doctor LeMay and Molly, effective communication is all

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Speaker 3: about transparency and empathy.

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Speaker 4: COVID is new. However, what's amazing and awesome about science

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Speaker 4: is that we're learning about it every day, which means

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Speaker 4: we should communicate recommendations as they change. Perfect example that

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Speaker 4: we had to deal with early on was that first

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Speaker 4: the CDC did not recommend the wearing of masks. Right

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Speaker 4: a few months later, the CDC was like, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's really important for us to wear masks. And one

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Speaker 4: thing that we tried to do very much with our

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Speaker 4: communication that we were advising the mayor's office was that

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Speaker 4: we need to talk about that if we have new recommendations.

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Speaker 4: That is how science should be working. So being very

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Speaker 4: upfront and saying this is what I know today, right,

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Speaker 4: this is what the science has told me today with

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Speaker 4: regards to protective measures, and really being transparent and saying

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Speaker 4: that we're learning something new every day based on the science.

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Speaker 4: And I think transparency is going to be such a huge,

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Speaker 4: huge issue here.

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Speaker 3: I think with transparency, it's important for folks to understand

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Speaker 3: that science is ever changing. Every day, the science is changing,

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Speaker 3: and I think part of the reason why folks were

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Speaker 3: kind of like confused, like huh, what is going on

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Speaker 3: is because there is no window into that world to

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Speaker 3: see like, Okay, we learned something new, so now we're

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Speaker 3: going to change the guidance. And I think that that's

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Speaker 3: something that as scientists in the lab, if we pull

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Speaker 3: back this curtain a little bit, there's not anything crazy

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Speaker 3: going on. It's just that as scientists learn new things,

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Speaker 3: they have to change what their communication to us is.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the documentary Totally under Control on Hulu

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Speaker 1: really captured this. I think what we saw was this

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Speaker 1: push and pull. We've talked about it TT on some

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Speaker 1: other people's podcasts about science communication and effective communication and

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Speaker 1: this need to understand this dynamic nature of things changing daily.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mesh well with how our leaders speak

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Speaker 1: to our nation, or in smaller buckets, how our governors

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Speaker 1: and mayors speak to the populations. Right, so they want

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Speaker 1: to say something definitive. You may feel like you're not

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Speaker 1: powerful or you're not doing what's right. If you say, hey,

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Speaker 1: actually we don't know what's going on right now, we'll

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Speaker 1: get back to you when we figure something out. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't and inspire confidence in the people listening. But that's

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Speaker 1: actually manipulative, right, because you're trying to control how people feel,

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Speaker 1: so you tell them something different. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: the transparency that was missing that Rupali and Molly were

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Speaker 1: talking about the other half of this is empathy.

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Speaker 5: People have been dealing with us for a really long time.

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Speaker 5: We're looking at communities that have been facing not only

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Speaker 5: the burden of disease, but the economic impacts dealing with

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Speaker 5: missed schooling as.

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Speaker 4: The education system has been affected. So there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of impacts.

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Speaker 5: On families and communities and individuals. But there's a light

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Speaker 5: at the end of the tunnel, and we're doing everything

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Speaker 5: we can to help address this.

441
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: When we consider empathy and we consider the people who

442
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: are doing this communication, we also need to hold some

443
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: folks accountable if we're going to be truly empathetic. Right,

444
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: there's empathy where you say, oh, I know your kids

445
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: are at home, but we still need you to work

446
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: and do all this stuff. But then there is also

447
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: empathy with action, and empathy with action says stay at

448
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: home and we will make sure that there's for all. Right,

449
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: it says, reduce your interactions with folks, don't go out,

450
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: don't get together with people, but make sure that people

451
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: who are staying alone have the supplies that they need.

452
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: Making sure that people who are at higher risk don't

453
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 1: have to go out to get what they need, but

454
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: that we have services that will support them.

455
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: So setting up an infrastructure that is beneficial to all people,

456
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: not just a few of us.

457
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: Right if you say, who has the least individual infrastructure

458
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: for support? Right, if we ensure that there is infrastructure

459
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: level support for them, we are building empathy into our

460
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: systems so you don't have to scramble in the case

461
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: of a disaster.

462
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: Right, I don't want your thoughts in prayers. I need

463
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 3: somewhere to live, I need food to eat. Like thoughts

464
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 3: and prayers don't really get those things to me. Right,

465
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 3: their infrastructure set up. When the power goes out, PEPCO

466
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 3: is on the move, honey, Like they know exactly what

467
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: they're supposed to do. They have protocols and procedures in

468
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 3: place to make sure that you will not be without power.

469
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 3: We need to keep that same energy when it comes

470
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 3: to the prosperity of all people in the world. Let's

471
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: have things in place to ensure that when things like

472
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: this happen. Because the thing about pandemics is that they

473
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 3: are going to happen. They will happen, they are guaranteed

474
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: to happen. And all of these officials know that there

475
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: should be policies and procedures in place to ensure that

476
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: all of us are able to make it through this

477
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: and that the rates of cases and deaths and hospitalizations

478
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 3: are as low as possible.

479
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 1: You've made a really good point. You said, we know

480
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: this is going to happen. It's happened before. It's happened

481
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: in smaller scenarios that maybe were just little blips on

482
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: our news radar because they were controlled really quickly. But

483
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: there are playbooks for this right And I think another

484
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: part beyond transparency and empathy is who's giving the message.

485
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: Because you're more likely to listen to some folks than others.

486
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 4: We're going to have to identify influencers that people trust.

487
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: When doctor LeMay says influencers, it's not what you think.

488
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: She's talking about people that you trust and would listen

489
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: to when we're talking about things like vaccines, so not

490
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: Kylie Jenner.

491
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 4: We were talking to someone from the CDC. I was

492
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 4: on a different panel, and this poor individual from the

493
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 4: CDC was like, why am I not a trusted voice?

494
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 4: And I said, the reason you're not a trusted voice

495
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 4: is not your fault. It has to do with the

496
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 4: fact as how the CDC has reversed guidelines. People think

497
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 4: the process has been tainted. So as a result, we

498
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 4: need to identify other voices that can come out and

499
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 4: can talk about this and that perhaps can start to

500
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 4: rebuild that trust between the public and public health institutions

501
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 4: at large.

502
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 3: Even though COVID is a global pandemic, there's been success

503
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: by approaching communication strategies through a more local lens, focusing

504
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: on the most effective ways to reach smaller at risk communities.

505
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 5: So we've in Baltimore and in some of the nearby communities,

506
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 5: we have looked at ways to leverage social media for

507
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 5: different settings. There was a need to engage people and

508
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 5: share information from long term care facilities, senior housing where.

509
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 4: Families outside were really concerned.

510
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 5: About what was happening to their family members inside, but

511
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 5: there was no way to really be directly engaged. And

512
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 5: we knew that Facebook was a tool that they were

513
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 5: using on both ends of that kind of telephone line, right,

514
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 5: So we were able to work with the city and

515
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 5: support them in doing some videos and some engagement using

516
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 5: that tool to reach the people who needed the information.

517
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 5: So it's really about targeting those strategies and then tailoring

518
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 5: the messages. We've also done a ton of work and

519
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 5: seen in a number of places, not just here in Baltimore,

520
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 5: looking at some of the other ways people get information.

521
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 5: The city's in particular because we're covering a huge population

522
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 5: as many ways as we can.

523
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: So there's been.

524
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 5: Everything from targeted radio work to share information, to setting

525
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 5: up press conferences, to talking to food delivery entities or

526
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: ways that people are getting some of their basic and

527
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 5: leveraging those people to share some of the important health information.

528
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good strategy. At some point

529
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: I had to turn the news off. I was not

530
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: watching any more press conferences right but I was getting

531
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: Uber eats.

532
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of Uber eats. I've eaten a

533
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 3: lot of bonshon in the quarantine. If you follow me

534
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 3: on Twitter, you know that I've had bon chon, probably.

535
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: More than I should have. What have you been getting

536
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: from overeats?

537
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm getting ramen from uber eats, and my goodness, I

538
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: have been enjoying that. Now you've put a sticky note

539
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: on the top of that ramen or a flyer that

540
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: says here's what you should be doing right now, effective

541
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: I won't see it. I'm gonna see it.

542
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: Yes, have every door dash person be handing out a flyer.

543
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: And compensate them for doing it.

544
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: Exactly if we think.

545
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: About making these strides, whether it's general awareness of vaccines,

546
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: whether it's disputing misinformation and clarifying some missing points, the

547
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 1: next step after that information is the action. Yes, and

548
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: I think that is what feels the most unknown to me.

549
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: So we know about vaccine hesitancy. Considering what we know,

550
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: what does this mean for the rollout the delivery of

551
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: a vaccine?

552
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 5: I think moving forward this idea of how we distribute

553
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 5: the vaccine, and more importantly, how we talk about how

554
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 5: we're going to distribute it is going to be such

555
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 5: a challenge. We're starting with, ideally, those highest risk categories,

556
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 5: the people who are most likely to be exposed and

557
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 5: to be exposed frequently, and who are going to potentially

558
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 5: have the greatest risk of serious disease from that. So

559
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 5: right now, the first tier includes things like frontline healthcare

560
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 5: workers like EMTs and nurses, who are exposed to.

561
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 4: This all the time and who we really rely on.

562
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 5: To continue to help control the pandemic. But as we

563
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 5: move down those tiers, it does get a bit more

564
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 5: complicated and we start to raise a lot of ethical

565
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 5: questions and questions about how people are going to perceive this.

566
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: Okay, So Business Insider they put out a chart of

567
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: what we might be expecting for rollout of the coronavirus vaccine.

568
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: I'm saying in December of this year to January of

569
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, approved vaccines start to go out to

570
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: the four priority groups, which is healthcare workers, frontline workers,

571
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: people over sixty five, and people with pre existing conditions.

572
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: And that distribution continues through April of twenty twenty one,

573
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: and then from April to June of twenty twenty one,

574
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: the vaccines become more widely available to young, healthy members

575
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: of the general population, and then July to September of

576
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, most adults in the US who want

577
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: the vaccine will likely have access to it.

578
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: At that point.

579
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: By this time next year, herd immunity through vaccination could

580
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 3: be reached in the US if seventy five percent of

581
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 3: people or more get their shots. And we'll have more

582
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: information about all of these different tiers, who's going to

583
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: be first, last, and everything in between in our show notes,

584
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: So make sure you check that out.

585
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: We're just so deep in the pandemic and seeing all

586
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: these numbers rise as we move into the holiday season,

587
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: it's hard to think about what moving out of it

588
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: will be. Like I'm ready to move out of it, yes,

589
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: but it's hard for me to see the clear path

590
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: to that, right.

591
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: And then it.

592
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: Also makes me think, what will we do differently if

593
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: this happens again?

594
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: Because it will happen again.

595
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all we do. We're scientists. That's what you

596
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: do is how do I optimize this? How do I

597
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: make it better? What variables stay the same? What variables

598
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: will we change? I think this was really a wake

599
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: up call because seeing these multiple waves and spikes, I'm like,

600
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: behavior is not changing. The model tells us what's going

601
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: to happen if we don't change these things.

602
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: Right, Because I mean even when you think of like

603
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 3: pandemics from the past, over one hundred years ago, people

604
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: weren't traveling the same way, people weren't interacting, like we

605
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: didn't have this globalization that we do have now, right,

606
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: which is what facilitated the really rapid spread of the coronavirus.

607
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: So when I think what fifty years from now or

608
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: another one hundred years from now, which I do care

609
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: about those folks. I am one of those people who

610
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: care about even when I'm dead and gone. I want

611
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: to make sure that the things that we leave behind

612
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: will set people up for success.

613
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: Yes, what were there? How different will their lives be?

614
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: Can we project and be able to put policies in

615
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: place in order to facilitate them getting through a pandemic safely?

616
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: Or will we have short term memory? Because I see

617
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: people forgetting what we learned in March and here we

618
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: are just at the cusp of December.

619
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: The sad part is we know that this is not

620
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: the last in terms of a pandemic. At Hopkins, we

621
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 4: have been working on modeling and thinking about this pandemic.

622
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: We do this exercise every year that essentially do like

623
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: a simulation, but look at transmission, that look at you

624
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 4: different types of pathogens, that look at the reproductive rate,

625
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: all of these different things. So we have been kind

626
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: of practicing for this for a long time, and once

627
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 4: we get out of COVID, my biggest concern is, let's

628
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 4: not forget lessons learned here.

629
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: So what have we learned?

630
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 4: One thing that we have definitely one hundred percent learned

631
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: is how do we make sure that leaders are transparent

632
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: and accountable. But for this to work, we have to

633
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 4: be better as humans. We cannot go around and just

634
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 4: as essentially not say things that are incorrect, be inaccurate,

635
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 4: put people at risk because you're trying to put your

636
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: economic whatever sort of as the priority. And to me,

637
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: that is the one thing we have learned. This is

638
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 4: a great opportunity for us to rehaul the partnership between

639
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: public health and public officials. How do we redefine this

640
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 4: relationship and how do we make sure that people are

641
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 4: held accountable.

642
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: That is so beautifully sid right, because it really captures

643
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the things we've been talking about this

644
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: entire season. It's not just are you sick, but do

645
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: you have the things you need to keep your risk

646
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: low to keep you away from possibility of future sickness.

647
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 3: Exactly because what we know is is that the effects

648
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: of coronavirus is not just oh do you have to

649
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: go to the hospital, do you stay home? Are you

650
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: contagious or not? It has trickled down effects on all

651
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: aspects of our life. We've talked about how it affects

652
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 3: us socially, how it affects housing, how it affects our food, infrastructure,

653
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: all these different things are affected by a virus.

654
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, affected by this vaccine and our response to it.

655
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: We failed that test, right, Yes, we failed that test,

656
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: and we failed it really quickly. And so now we've

657
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: got to stand up and really say, how do we

658
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: rebuild without those same disparities, without those same inequities that

659
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: were in our system and that coronavirus so quickly exposed.

660
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: Right, we have to be realistic with ourselves and say,

661
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: these are the things that we did wrong. How can

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00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: we do the right thing moving forward? That's it for

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00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: semester three. I cannot believe we have already finished the

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00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: third semester.

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00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: It went by so fast, and I just have so

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00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: many more things I want to explore with you. Guys.

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00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: We're gonna miss you so much, but make sure that

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00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: you stay in touch and let us know what you

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00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: want to hear from us in semester four, and we'll

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00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 3: be back as soon as we can can. Stay safe,

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00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 3: be positive and stay COVID negative.

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00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: Yes, and keep your distance, wear your masks and wear

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00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: your mask.

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00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: That's it for Lab thirty six and semester three. But

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00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: we have so much more for you to dig into

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00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 3: on our website. So head on over to Dope Labs

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00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: podcast dot com.

678
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: On our website you can find a cheat sheet for

679
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: today's lab, along with a ton of other links and

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00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: resources in the show notes.

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00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 3: And if you want to stay in the no with

682
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 3: Dope Labs, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter

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00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: on our site.

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00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: Too special thanks to our guests experts today Doctor Rupali

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00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: Lamay and Molly Sour.

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00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 3: Make sure you check out our show notes on Dope

687
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 3: labspodcast dot com to find out more about their work

688
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: and how you can follow them.

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00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Also, we love hearing from you. What did you think

690
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: about today's lab? Do you have ideas for future labs?

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00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: Call us at two zero two five six seven seven

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00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: zero two eight and let us know. You can find

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00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs podcast, tt

694
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: is on Twitter at dr Underscore Tsho.

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00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: And you can find Zakia at z said So.

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00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: Follow us on Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts.

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00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: Dope Labs is produced by Jenny rattlet Mast and Lydia

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00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 3: Smith of waver Runner Studios.

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00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound design are by Hannes Brown.

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00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: Our theme music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura,

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00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 3: with additional music.

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00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 2: By Elijah Lex Harvey.

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00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 3: Dope Labs is a production of Spotify and Mega Oh

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00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: Media Group, and it's executive produced by US T T

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00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: Show Dia.

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00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: And Zakiah Wattley. Do you think that works? I think

707
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: I might have been too flustered when I was saying it.

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00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: I might need to take it again.

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00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, try one more time.

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00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: Thank you friend, Mam.

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00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 4: Do you hear that?

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00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: Do you hear it?

713
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 5: Just?

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00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: Oh, great support I have. My eyes are watering. It's

715
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: just so patient