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Speaker 1: Hey, So this is gonna be the third in our

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Speaker 1: unofficial series about animal feelings. We're gonna be referencing our

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Speaker 1: episode about whether or not suburban dogs are happier than

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Speaker 1: city dogs quite a bit in this episode, So if

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Speaker 1: you have not listened to that yet after listening to

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Speaker 1: this one, you may want to go check that one out.

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Speaker 2: Here's the show for today. I'm Noah, I'm Devin, and

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Speaker 2: I'm Kate.

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Speaker 1: And this is no such thing, the show where we

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Speaker 1: settle our dumb arguments in yours by actually doing the research.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, are outdoor cats happier than indoor cats?

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Speaker 3: There was a study that came out years ago where

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Speaker 3: they found that like some cats had eaten dead people.

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Speaker 4: There's no such thing, no such thing.

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Speaker 5: Touch thanks, touch, than to thank.

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Speaker 1: It's right off the bat here, let's address the elephant

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Speaker 1: in the room. If you listen to the top of

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Speaker 1: this episode, you may have noticed that we have replaced.

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Speaker 2: Manny permanently forever. No Manny had a kid. Congrats Manny.

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Speaker 1: So over the next couple of weeks there will be

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Speaker 1: a couple of episodes that Manny will not be a

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Speaker 1: part of. So we're gonna have some guest hosts. So

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Speaker 1: today we are joined in the studio by someone our

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Speaker 1: listeners may be familiar with already. If you're real, you

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Speaker 1: should be.

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Speaker 6: If you care about the Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Kate Lindsey. So.

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Speaker 1: Kate is the host of the Slate podcast I See

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Speaker 1: y Am I she writes the embedded newsletter, and she

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Speaker 1: happens to be the sister of Noah's wife, So she's

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Speaker 1: a sister in law of the pods.

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Speaker 5: I've spent many Christmas mornings with Noah exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you also sat in with us on episode twenty

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Speaker 1: seven because you wanted to find out why adults can't

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Speaker 1: order it off the kids menu. Yeah, one of our

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Speaker 1: most popular, if not our most popular.

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Speaker 6: Wow, that's crazy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not crazy yet.

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Speaker 5: Well, I guess, I guess. I'm just happy that people

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Speaker 5: have the same question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly, we're still getting emails about it. So kay.

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Speaker 1: We brought you on today because we're tackling the question

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Speaker 1: about our outdoor cats happier than indoor cats. When we

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Speaker 1: went to our roster of friends and you were at

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Speaker 1: the top of the list because you love cats.

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Speaker 6: I love cats, every kind of rat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you own cats.

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Speaker 6: I own cats. I have two partner and ruby.

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Speaker 5: They were not by me, but they were found in

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Speaker 5: a parking lot, so in many ways they they are

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Speaker 5: on both sides of this, but yes, they're they're indoor cats.

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Speaker 2: No, what is your experience with cats? Did you grow

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Speaker 2: up with cats?

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Speaker 7: No, never owned a cat. Have really not spent much

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Speaker 7: time around cats, just kind of like I've checked in

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Speaker 7: on some cats sitting duties once in a while, that

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Speaker 7: sort of thing. I don't have any strong feelings really

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Speaker 7: either way about cats or how they live.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you're a great neutral person a way in where

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Speaker 1: I can.

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Speaker 4: But I've always had I had dogs growing up. I

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Speaker 4: have a dog now.

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Speaker 1: I did have a cat growing up. But I was

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Speaker 1: talking to them my mom about this. I was like,

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Speaker 1: why did you guys have a cat? Because they're not

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Speaker 1: really I think my mom likes cats more than my

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Speaker 1: dad did. But they always had cats growing up because

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Speaker 1: living in a city and you know, in apartment buildings,

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Speaker 1: mice are always an issue. So they were like growing

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Speaker 1: up like we always had cats as like pest control.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I know, honestly, people should be thanking us cat owners

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Speaker 5: if we're in your building, or cat owners specifically because

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Speaker 5: because it's a combo of the attacked the mice, but

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Speaker 5: I also think the mice stay away this morning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually the other day came by, spent some

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Speaker 1: time after cats.

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Speaker 2: I'm good. Yeah, but they're both. They're both.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they look everyone's I Now. I'm like, oh they

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Speaker 5: look so different, but they're looking exactly the same. They're

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Speaker 5: brother and sister.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so how did you get them?

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Speaker 6: So it was Brooklyn animal action.

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Speaker 5: But finally how I not that I never didn't have

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Speaker 5: like the stigma against black cats, but I wouldn't say

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Speaker 5: I was like, oh, I need a black cat. But

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Speaker 5: then we were cats sitting for some friends who had

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Speaker 5: two black cats. Well they were on vacation for two weeks,

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Speaker 5: and I just like fell in love with them and

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Speaker 5: they were similarly like brother and sister, and like I

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Speaker 5: would probably two days after they came back and got

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Speaker 5: their cats back, I saw these kitten black cat siblings

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Speaker 5: and I was like to ask Tyler, my husband, I

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Speaker 5: was like, is it weird if we just immediately get

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Speaker 5: their basically their.

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Speaker 6: Cats we just cats sit.

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Speaker 5: But we did it, and now we still see them around.

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Speaker 5: Like Tyler and them are still close friends and were

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Speaker 5: always like, you're the reason we have our cats.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and then we just they were about six.

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Speaker 5: Months when we adopted them, and they were and still

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Speaker 5: continue to be very bad. They Yeah, they love to

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Speaker 5: eat human food. But they're also they're so sweet. I

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Speaker 5: mean Ruby sweet too, but she's a bit more of

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Speaker 5: like a spicy girl. But they both they're very like

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Speaker 5: food motivated and they're very loving. But yeah, this is oh.

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Speaker 6: Some leg do it to the microphone partner? They love

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Speaker 6: you want to get that?

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Speaker 2: Maybe some scratching of the the couch. I don't know

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Speaker 2: it's going to stop you, they don't. This is the

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Speaker 2: other thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So have you ever taken them outside?

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Speaker 6: No, we are because so they were found in a

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Speaker 6: parking lot at a BJ's and benson Hurst.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, and and they love human food and like trash,

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Speaker 5: and so we just I think because they were like

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Speaker 5: raised on that initially. And our whole thing is like

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Speaker 5: we know they love us, we know they love being home,

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Speaker 5: but if they were given we think we'd be choppoliver

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Speaker 5: immediately if they could like go back to the streets

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Speaker 5: and eat garbage.

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Speaker 1: So, as the person who has the most experience with

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Speaker 1: cats of this roundtable, what are your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that outdoor cats are happier cats?

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Speaker 5: So, I despite my cats being indoor cats I have

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Speaker 5: grown up with when I lived in the UK, I

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Speaker 5: will say like there specifically, it seems like almost I

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Speaker 5: would say nearly unheard of to have only an indoor cat.

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Speaker 5: And so when we were growing up in England we

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Speaker 5: had like our American cats with us. It'd be quarantined

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Speaker 5: for like three to six months. That's a side thing,

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Speaker 5: but it was crazy, so no real ordeal to move

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Speaker 5: them there. But they then there became indoor outdoors, so

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Speaker 5: they were not exclusively Yeah, they were hybrid.

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Speaker 6: They were hybrid work and I mean it's it's hard.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to say because you when they are outdoor cats,

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Speaker 5: you don't see them, and so it's like, so that

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Speaker 5: would suggest they're enjoying it. And cats are such creatures

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Speaker 5: of routine that you know, we would learn to expect

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Speaker 5: them back at the door around a certain time and

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Speaker 5: they'd be like, let me back in, but it would

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Speaker 5: be kind of like literally like they'd be going off

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Speaker 5: to the office and.

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Speaker 6: Then and then coming back.

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Speaker 5: And so I'm my inclination was to be like, well,

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Speaker 5: cats who have an outdoor cat personality like it. But

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Speaker 5: I don't know if that just is because basically every

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Speaker 5: cat I've had had that's indoor only seems really content

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Speaker 5: to be indoor only. But every outdoor cat I know,

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Speaker 5: like my parents' neighbors now have barn cats that are

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Speaker 5: exclusively outdoor. They are plump and busy, uh and seem

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Speaker 5: to be having a great time. And so I wonder

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Speaker 5: if it's like a nature versus nurture thing, except it

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Speaker 5: might all be nurtured. But the saying that, I can

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Speaker 5: think of the cats I've had that if I put

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Speaker 5: them outside, it would be like a hate crime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, like they would be dead instantly.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, no survivalan Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I mean it's probably a lot like people. Some people

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Speaker 7: like the camp Yeah, some people don't. What about have

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Speaker 7: you ever or has anyone you know like taking their

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Speaker 7: cats out on leashes?

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Speaker 5: Yes, my friend Hannah full name, she has a cat

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Speaker 5: named Circe uh, and she would bring Surce to the

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Speaker 5: park in a stroller. Then she had a leash and

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Speaker 5: we would sit there with her on the leash. But

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Speaker 5: like dogs, obviously dogs like being outside, but they can

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Speaker 5: also settle outside. I also think maybe because it was

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Speaker 5: such a novelty for Circe, Like she just would not

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Speaker 5: like she just wanted to be everywhere, and she really

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Speaker 5: would make a bee line for trees and try to

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Speaker 5: get up in the tree and so like sometimes the

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Speaker 5: leash would be like vertical because she'd be like wanting

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Speaker 5: to allow Sirce to do all her little things, but.

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Speaker 6: Wanted to be up in the tree.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I guess it's similar to how I think

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Speaker 7: I felt about dogs, where I think a hybrid sounds good.

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Speaker 7: I know that's not the strong, but well for that,

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Speaker 7: for that sake, I guess I'll go outdoor then Okay,

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Speaker 7: if i'm if I have to lean one way.

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Speaker 2: If you want to make a decision it find a cat, if.

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Speaker 7: Your cat, because I think outdoor basically implot you know,

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Speaker 7: hopefully they get to go inside sometimes, but yeah if

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Speaker 7: if if, then it's like, you know, Kate's giving them

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Speaker 7: a lease or something, and it's like you need to

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Speaker 7: decide if you're going to be indoor out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta sign the lease.

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Speaker 7: I think these cats, it sounds like would probably whether

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Speaker 7: it might not be there the best interest.

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Speaker 2: While they were outside before I know, and they.

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Speaker 4: Have they probably didn't like it in the parking lot.

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Speaker 5: I think it's so like I think against like right

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Speaker 5: in my heart. In a city, I think I can

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Speaker 5: I know better than them, and I'm like, it's better

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Speaker 5: in here. If we were in the country, I think

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Speaker 5: they would be so much happier prancing around a little

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Speaker 5: fields and hunting mice. But in the city you can

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Speaker 5: just hunt a garbage for the most which they do like,

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Speaker 5: but it's not good for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot more dangerous, right.

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Speaker 5: Like the rap, poison all that stuff. Yeah, it would

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Speaker 5: give even just the rats, right, just yeah, that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: no that we would be too scary to me.

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Speaker 4: All right, So you're so yeah, I'll say I'll say outdoor.

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Speaker 1: Outdoor hate you're saying indooror I'm gonna go with outdoor.

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Speaker 5: I'm saying indoor just because I'm like, you like but

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Speaker 5: kind of like a munchhausing situation where I'm like, you

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Speaker 5: like being in here, this is great?

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm doing the best thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly what I felt about the dogs.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a little break and when we

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Speaker 1: get back, we're gonna hear from a cat scientist who's

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Speaker 1: gonna tell us which cats are happier outdoor cats or

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Speaker 1: indoor cats?

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back.

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Speaker 1: So before the break, we were debating whether or not

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Speaker 1: outdoor cats are happier than indoor cats.

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Speaker 2: Uh. So I called up a leading expert in the field.

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Speaker 3: Hi, I'm doctor Michael Delgado. I'm a cat behavior expert.

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Speaker 3: I'm a behavior consultant, and I'm also a scientist.

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Speaker 1: All right, so doctor Michael, Uh, it's pretty cool. I

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Speaker 1: sent you'all a photo.

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Speaker 6: I was gonna say, you better give the visual yes.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we we do. We record these interviews

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Speaker 1: with video as well. So she shows up in her

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Speaker 1: video window. She's wearing a cat shirt. You know, she

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Speaker 1: showed up.

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Speaker 2: She showed up.

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Speaker 1: Her cat is on like a cat tree behind her,

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Speaker 1: like hanging out basically on her shoulder.

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Speaker 2: She's tatted up.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is the perfect person to talk

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Speaker 1: to about this, and not just because she's a scientist

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Speaker 1: and oh you know, like she could have known nothing

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Speaker 1: about cast but showing up with that fit and I

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, she's about her business. She also has

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Speaker 1: a book called Play with Your Cat that delves into

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Speaker 1: understanding your cats wants and needs to give them a

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Speaker 1: better healthier life. So we're gonna break this conversation down

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Speaker 1: into a few chapters. So let's start with chapter one. Domesticated.

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Speaker 1: There's a question mark there.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we think cats were domesticated approximately ten thousand years ago,

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Speaker 3: but that exact date is always very fuzzy based on

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Speaker 3: genetic data, archaeological data.

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Speaker 1: And just for reference, dogs were believed to be domesticated

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Speaker 1: between fourteen and twenty.

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Speaker 2: Thousand years ago.

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Speaker 6: Long ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so cats were domesticated a few thousand years later.

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Speaker 3: What we see is that in the fertile Crescent, where

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Speaker 3: humans were settling storing food, that there is evidence that

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Speaker 3: cats came into people's lives became part of their lives. Right,

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Speaker 3: So we see art depicting cats, we see archaeological evidence

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Speaker 3: of cats coexisting with humans. But you know, the question

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Speaker 3: of like our cats truly domesticated really depends on how

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Speaker 3: you think about domestication, and so I prefer to say

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Speaker 3: they're semi domesticated. Certainly we have coexisted with them, But

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Speaker 3: domestication is all described as like a process we do

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Speaker 3: to like plants and animals to make them usable by humans, right,

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Speaker 3: and that includes dogs. But you know, we want plants

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Speaker 3: to create more corn or more weak. We want chickens

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Speaker 3: to produce more meat. We want dogs to do specific

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Speaker 3: jobs for us, like hurting or protecting our property or

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Speaker 3: helping us hunt, and we haven't really done that with cats.

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Speaker 3: So what we believe happened is that humans stored grains

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Speaker 3: which attracted rodents, which attracted cats. So you could say, like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: obviously humans needed cats to protect their food from all

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Speaker 3: of those rodents, but the reality is that humans already

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Speaker 3: had dogs and weasels to do pest control for us,

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Speaker 3: so cats are like an added bonus. But really, what's

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Speaker 3: more likely that happened is like, Okay, they help us

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Speaker 3: a little bit. They're cute. Some of them are friendly,

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Speaker 3: the friendlier ones like, oh, I'll toss them a little

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Speaker 3: bit of my food. Those cats that are friendlier are

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Speaker 3: more able to take advantage of human kindness and reproduced

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Speaker 3: because they're more likely to survive, So then they're offspring

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Speaker 3: are also a little more friendly to people, and then

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Speaker 3: they're offspring are a little more friendly to people. And now

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Speaker 3: we have cats in our beds and you know, behind

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Speaker 3: us while we're working and on our computer, laptops, so

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Speaker 3: they're they've kind of infiltrated, but it's not a it's

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Speaker 3: not considered like a mutually beneficial relationship like domestication of

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Speaker 3: other species. In fact, cats probably benefited a little bit

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Speaker 3: more than humans, because again, we already had pest control.

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Speaker 5: As she was talking, I was like, right, so cats

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Speaker 5: are like the most unemployed because there's no you know,

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Speaker 5: there's no reason they don't do anything. But then as

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Speaker 5: she was talking, I was like, oh, cats are using us, like,

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Speaker 5: at least with the way she described it, I basically

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Speaker 5: realized in the moment that we were getting played because

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Speaker 5: I was like, oh, they don't.

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Speaker 6: Do anything for us, yeah, just because they're cute.

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Speaker 5: And then when she stopped, it was like, oh, but

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Speaker 5: they can use us for warmth and shelter and food.

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Speaker 2: I guess in the city, you know, past control is

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Speaker 2: still a thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and outside the barn cats yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, barn cats are definitely a thing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, in terms of when they were starting to

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Speaker 1: be domesticated, it's like, well, we don't really need you

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Speaker 1: guys here. We kind of got this taken care of,

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Speaker 1: but they're like, I want to hang out.

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Speaker 4: There's food here, it's kind of nice that it's not

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Speaker 4: for the purely utilitarian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just like.

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Speaker 4: Maybe they're just nice to have around.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you can't the weasel do it, but yeah, cat

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Speaker 7: comes in.

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Speaker 6: It's on your lap.

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Speaker 5: Although I'd welcome a weasel on my you should try

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Speaker 5: getting a Yeah, the indoor outdoor weasels happier.

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Speaker 1: So another thing doctor Michael pointed out is that we

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Speaker 1: have a larger variety of dogs then we have cats. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's I think nearly like three p fifty to four hundred,

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Speaker 1: it's like disputed dog breeds, and there's only like forty

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Speaker 1: cat reads.

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Speaker 7: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And some of that, she said, is because cats get

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Speaker 1: to choose who they have sex with.

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Speaker 3: Although we have certainly created breeds of cats specifically based

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Speaker 3: on physical features like the coloration and the face shape

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Speaker 3: of the Siamese or the Persian, you're not going to

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Speaker 3: see those extremes.

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Speaker 8: Like we do in dogs.

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Speaker 3: And some of that is due to i think, just

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Speaker 3: less controlled breeding. So we know that about ninety six

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Speaker 3: percent of cats in the world choose their own sexual partners,

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Speaker 3: so they have a lot of freedom compared to dogs.

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Speaker 3: And as a result, people also have many fewer pure

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Speaker 3: red cats than pure red dogs. And also we just

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Speaker 3: see less extreme appearances, so you could have you know,

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Speaker 3: probably the biggest extremes would be like a main coon cat,

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Speaker 3: which is like you know, known to be like twenty pounds,

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Speaker 3: and then you have like a singapore which are more

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Speaker 3: like seven or eight pounds. Right, So that's kind of

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Speaker 3: the range of cat diversity as far as what they

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Speaker 3: look like. And again with the personality there's been and

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Speaker 3: behavior there's been less selection.

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Speaker 6: What do we mean by by choosing?

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Speaker 5: I guess are we saying that like dogs, there's more

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Speaker 5: of an industry and breeding dogs, and so they could

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Speaker 5: theoretically it's not their choice.

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Speaker 6: We're getting into some dicey ethics here. Consent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if the lady cats are consenting.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, oh yeah, I know, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But that they're going out the cats are breeding just

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Speaker 2: out in the water out of the.

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Speaker 6: Love of the game.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, what type of cats are yours?

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Speaker 2: They are?

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Speaker 5: So it's always hard when they're rescued because I think,

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Speaker 5: like as we just sort of learned it and it's truth.

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Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of a mutt situation. But

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Speaker 5: they're they're they're said to be bombay which is just

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Speaker 5: off which is a type of black cat. But I

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Speaker 5: doubt they are pure bread bombee and I have if

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Speaker 5: you haven't, don't think that because I follow It's Brooklyn

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Speaker 5: Animal Action and I follow them on Instagram and one

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Speaker 5: time they posted a cat that was older that looks

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Speaker 5: so much like my.

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Speaker 6: Cats, which I know is crazy because their black cats,

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Speaker 6: but with the eyes.

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Speaker 5: Specifically and the type of fur that I did email

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Speaker 5: them going is this my cat's mom? And I was

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Speaker 5: I was not. They did not reply, makes fun of

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Speaker 5: because I'm just like, hey, link, is.

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Speaker 6: This my cat's mom?

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Speaker 4: What are you gonna do about it?

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Speaker 6: I know, my god. I just want to thank her

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Speaker 6: for her.

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Speaker 2: Chapter two the Census.

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Speaker 1: So going through your book, you kind of start talking

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Speaker 1: about the five or let's say six senses for you

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Speaker 1: if you bring in balance there of cats. So I

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Speaker 1: wanted to sort of go through those one by one.

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Speaker 1: Can we start with their sort of large eyes and

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Speaker 1: their vision?

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Speaker 3: Sure, we always want to start with vision because we

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Speaker 3: are very visual, right, and so as we'll discuss for cats,

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Speaker 3: it's not nearly as important as we would like to

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Speaker 3: think it is. But certainly, you know every part of

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Speaker 3: the body of the cat has evolved to help them

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Speaker 3: be a more efficient predator, So they do have those

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Speaker 3: forward facing eyes. They're very large, gives them a broad

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Speaker 3: kind of range of view so they can detect prey,

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Speaker 3: but their close up vision is actually pretty terrible.

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Speaker 8: So if you're cuddling your cat, you look fuzzy.

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Speaker 3: If you're a bird, you know, ten fifteen feet away,

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Speaker 3: your cat's like laser focused. The other thing is that

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Speaker 3: cats have very very well adapted eyes for dark conditions, right,

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Speaker 3: so when it's dawn or dusk, they have extra rods

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Speaker 3: in their eyes.

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Speaker 8: So there's two kinds of cells in our eyes that

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Speaker 8: help with light and color.

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Speaker 3: So rods are more about light and cones are more

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Speaker 3: about color. So we have great color vision, so we

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Speaker 3: have a lot of cones in our eyes where cats.

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Speaker 8: Have very few.

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Speaker 3: So they're really good at amplifying available light when it's

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Speaker 3: kind of dark outside, you know, dusk, dawn, when they're

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Speaker 3: birds and mice are are getting active, but their.

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Speaker 8: Color visions very blah.

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Speaker 3: So you know, people like to buy you know, I

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Speaker 3: think they like to buy cat and dog toys that

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Speaker 3: are brightly colored and cute and like look like a

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Speaker 3: strawberry or whatever, But they really don't see red green

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Speaker 3: very well.

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Speaker 8: They're more in the.

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Speaker 3: Yellow blue end of the spectrum, so those colors are

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Speaker 3: gonna look less drapped to them, but like a red

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Speaker 3: toy is probably gonna look pretty gray.

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Speaker 1: Their eyes are pretty specialized, so they pick up on

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Speaker 1: a lot of like horozontal movement interesting, so imaginable mouse

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Speaker 1: running left or right. They're going to be really attuned

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 6: I do, I agree.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I like, I agree, I agree with this

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Speaker 5: well because if I like my cats are they love treats,

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Speaker 5: but I have noticed that I'll like if I drop

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Speaker 5: if I have it in my hand, or like drop

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Speaker 5: it in front of them. They like they're kind of

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Speaker 5: like taking their best guess to get the treat. But

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Speaker 5: I sometimes be like, are used topid like from you?

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Speaker 5: And no, that does shed some light on it. No pun,

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Speaker 5: that's not a pun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you know, when we think of a sense of smell,

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Speaker 1: we often think of dogs, but turns out cats are

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Speaker 1: really social smellers.

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Speaker 3: It's probably the most important sense of smell for social

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Speaker 3: communication and how they feel about their environment, not as

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Speaker 3: important for hunting. So they're not They're not like a bloodhound,

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Speaker 3: who's gonna like follow a trail of a mouse there?

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Speaker 3: Really are looking for a mouse in the environment, or

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Speaker 3: listening for sounds.

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Speaker 8: I would say, hey, there's a mouse here.

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Speaker 3: But when it comes to their sense of smell, they

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Speaker 3: do have an excellent sense smell, not quite as sensitive

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Speaker 3: as dogs, but certainly much better than ours. And they

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Speaker 3: also have kind of what we call a secondary sense

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Speaker 3: of smell, which is allows them to detect pheromones. So

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Speaker 3: pheromones are species specific chemicals that animals use to.

444
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 8: Communicate with other members of their species.

445
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 3: So we can't sniff our cat's pheromones, right, and dogs

446
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 3: same thing like, they can deposit pheromones. So cats have

447
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: several scent lands on their body that deposit both a

448
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 3: scent and a pheromone.

449
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 8: So like if you've ever seen a cat like rubbing their.

450
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 3: Cheeks on something, or scratching something or even urine spring,

451
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: those are always that they can communicate with other cats

452
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: the message maybe I'm ready to mate.

453
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 8: It could be hey, this is my territory, like bug off.

454
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: It could be just I live here and I was

455
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: here recently. So another cat can come up and detect

456
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 3: those pheromones with a specialized like second nose.

457
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 8: As we call it.

458
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: It's like a it's a little spot in the roof

459
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: of their mouth, and so you might see a cat

460
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: making a very funny little grimace type face where they

461
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: just open their mouth a little bit and so they're

462
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 3: sucking in air and moisture that activates this organ, which

463
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 3: is called the Jacobsen's organ or the vombar nasal organ.

464
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 8: And that's more detailed than probably people need, But.

465
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 3: What you need to know is that they kind of

466
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 3: have this whole secret world of scent that they again

467
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: learn mostly about other cats. So if you live in

468
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: a house with multiple cats, or a cat goes outside,

469
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: you might see them go and sniff an area that

470
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 3: another cat has been and they'll kind of make this

471
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: little face, and so they're getting information. How recently was

472
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: this cat here? Is this cat sexually intact or neutered?

473
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: Is this cat stress?

474
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 7: Like?

475
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 8: What's their emotional state?

476
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: These are the kinds of messages we believe that cats

477
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: receive from pheromones from other individuals, and they also probably

478
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: can smell their own pheromones that they deposited and go

479
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: back and say like, oh, yeah, this smells like me.

480
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 8: I live here, this is mine. So there's a certain

481
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 8: amount of comfort.

482
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: And security that can be achieved from these messages, but

483
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 3: it's definitely like I think, for us, it's just a

484
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 3: whole world we can't really tap into, and so, you know,

485
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 3: people get confused. This is a common scenario you live

486
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 3: with more than one cat. One cat goes to the vet.

487
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: At the vet, they get handled by different people. Maybe

488
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: those people had hand sanitizer on, maybe the cat got

489
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: cleaned with alcohol to like, you know, take a blood

490
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: sample or something. The cat comes home and the cat

491
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 3: who did not go to the vet flips out like hissing, growling,

492
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: like does not recognize the other cat.

493
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 8: And so people are like, have a very hard time

494
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 8: with this. Only it's Sammy. Why don't you know Sammy right?

495
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: And the cat's like, no, Sammy does not smell right,

496
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: Sammy smells not like Sammy. So it'd be kind of

497
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: like if you you know, have a partner or friend

498
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: who showed up at your house looking completely different.

499
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got like a huge makeover.

500
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 8: And they're like, no, it's me Joe, and you're like, no, Joe.

501
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: Joe is like five foot eight, not six foot four,

502
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: and Joe has blonde hair, and you know, so you'd

503
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: be like, no, like, what is going on that can

504
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 3: happen to cats? They're so focused on the scent for

505
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 3: this social information that can really cause stress that problems

506
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 3: for them. Sometimes some cats seem to be more sensitive

507
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: than others too, So there's a lot of kind of quirky,

508
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 3: weird things about cats that you know, are really hard

509
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: for us.

510
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 8: To relate to.

511
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 5: The face they I know exactly the face when they're

512
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 5: I didn't realize what they were doing was spasically smelling

513
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 5: through their mouth, but I knew that face because often

514
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: it's the face cats make when they smell their own piss,

515
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 5: and so it's a if you see your cat making

516
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 5: that face. Luckily, my cats have not, you know, knock

517
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 5: on wood been like this. But my immediate thing is

518
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 5: like where in the house to do this, because like,

519
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 5: why are you smelling it? But they also did it

520
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 5: when they smelled Tyler's foot, my husband, and that's been

521
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 5: giving us a lot of anyp I know, well, like

522
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 5: what I now, I know it's that it's registering a smell,

523
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 5: but it just it does look like they've smelled something

524
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: they don't like, and so it's really funny for a

525
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 5: cat to like sniff a foot and then be like Jesus, all.

526
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: Right, Next, we're going to talk about tastes. I told

527
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: her that your cats basically eat anything.

528
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 3: So we know that they have specialized taste receptors for meat.

529
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 3: So they're they're very much an obligate carnivore, So they

530
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 3: really should be eating a primarily meat diet that's made

531
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 3: for cats. So they are not maybe as adventurous as

532
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: an omnivorous species.

533
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 5: Right.

534
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: So, so although dogs are part of the carnivorou carnivorous species,

535
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: they are able to much more readily adapt to a

536
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: broader diet.

537
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: What that means.

538
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 6: Obligate sounds like they're obligated to eat meat.

539
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 5: Look at you Latin in college.

540
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they needed for their nutrients, whereas dogs can

541
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: get nutrient.

542
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: Plants and animals. So, yeah, they have to.

543
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 3: Taste can be influenced by early life experience, and in fact,

544
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 3: kittens can be influenced by what their mom ates when

545
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: she was pregnant, so in utero, so if she was

546
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: eating a lot of human food, it's possible that they

547
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: developed a taste for some other foods. We think that, Yeah,

548
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 3: So cats do have a reputation generally for being picky.

549
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 3: So they may only like one texture of wet food

550
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 3: or one shape of kibble, one meat profile, and so

551
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: they can be picky.

552
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 8: There's still quite a bit we.

553
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: Don't know about white cats are so picky. I think

554
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: in nature it's natural to be cautious if something doesn't

555
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: taste good.

556
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 8: Right, So if you are.

557
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: An animal and you're sampling whatever is out their plants

558
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: or you know, animals, ooh that didn't taste good. Ooh,

559
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: now I don't feel good. I'm never eating that again.

560
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: So I think that can certainly play into it. Cats

561
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: do soon be especially sensitive to bitter They really do

562
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: not like bitter things. So medication can be really challenging

563
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: for them because a lot of medications don't taste good.

564
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: So there you go.

565
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: Now, I'm like they needed to. I respond, is that

566
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 5: my cat's mom?

567
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 6: What did you eat?

568
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 5: But that would make a lot of sense because I

569
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 5: do believe they were born in this parking lot, and

570
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 5: so the mom was probably already there scrounging. Yeah, that

571
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 5: does make me honestly, now, it just seems sweet that

572
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 5: that's like what they've absorbed from their mind.

573
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: They're like more human food.

574
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, my mom was eating human food as a kid,

575
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: and now I want human food as an adult.

576
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they could they can open wrappers. That's probably

577
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 5: learned to. It was a BJ's parking lot.

578
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

579
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so I think, yeah, they know how to

580
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 5: open wrappers.

581
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: How about their hearing.

582
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 8: Hearing's very good. Yeah, they got they got good ears, right.

583
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: They can move their ears all around to help them

584
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: localize sound, so they're much more flexible than we are.

585
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: They can detect as low a sound as we can,

586
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: but they can detect much higher sounds than we can.

587
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: So they can kind of spy on rodents.

588
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 6: You know.

589
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 8: They can hear some of.

590
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: Those ultrasound noises that we can't hear. There was a

591
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: time where my cats became very obsessed with one room

592
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: in my house. They were like staring at the wall,

593
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, no, we have rodents, right,

594
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah they can. Yeah, they can hear things we can't hear, so,

595
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: you know, and there's hearing is quite sensitive, so again

596
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: adapted to be able to hunt effectively and detect when

597
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: there's there's prey in the area. There's certain sounds that

598
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: are more likely to interest them like rustling of leaves, right,

599
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: that would be like, oh, there's something running around outside.

600
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: So it's that kind of they're like tuned into like

601
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 3: they're a hunting opportunity to hear.

602
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: How about their sense of touch, and then you talk

603
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: a little bit about how they use their whiskers and

604
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: sort of like their sensitive areas on their body.

605
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: Can you talk a bit about that.

606
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, So whiskers are just like bigger hair hairs that

607
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: are innervated, right, So they're at the base of each

608
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: whisker there are nerve endings that are going to send

609
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: signals to the brain. So cats have whiskers face, forehead,

610
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: they've got them on the backs of their legs, so

611
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: those are.

612
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 8: Medic carpool whiskers. And so they can use all.

613
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: Of those whiskers to get information, right, So they can

614
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: actually detect air movements.

615
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 8: With their face whisker facial whiskers, so you.

616
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: Can you'll see and it seems like you've been doing

617
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: a little like preparations even hanging out with some cats

618
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: a little more.

619
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 8: And maybe well after this too, but like if you say,

620
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 8: the cat with a toy and you're waving it around,

621
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 8: they're little whiskers will be forward. It's kind of you know, yeah,

622
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 8: it's very cute.

623
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, closer like closing.

624
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: In, yeah, exactly, and they can almost close it like

625
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: if it was a rat, they could definitely kind of

626
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: like touch the rat with their whiskers. So they're getting

627
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: because their close up vision is pretty poor, they can

628
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: use their whiskers to kind of substitute for that information.

629
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: So the whiskers are now telling them like, oh, the

630
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 3: praise movement a lot, or it's struggling.

631
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 8: Or it's gone.

632
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: And so they are again just kind of synthesizing information

633
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: from all different kinds of places to and you know,

634
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: their brain is doing this at real time to help

635
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: them decide like should I continue pursuing this prey?

636
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 8: Is this prey dying or is it fighting back? Am

637
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 8: I you get bitten? So they're getting information as a result.

638
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: Of these you know, sensitive parts of their body and

639
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: all of their hair cells are also you know, giving

640
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: them information.

641
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 8: So out of touch. They are pretty sensitive to touch.

642
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: So as an example, a lot of cats don't like

643
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: having their paws touched.

644
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 8: Belly is a big sensitive area for some cats, and we.

645
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: Are kind of the opposite. We are a high touch species, right,

646
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: So our fingertips are very sensitive, Our lips are very sensitive,

647
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: and so we want.

648
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 8: To hug and kiss our cats a lot because they're soft.

649
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: And cute, and cats are very just sensitive, like they're

650
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: a little you know, I wouldn't say totally twitchy, but

651
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 3: but it's is kind of like a you know, I

652
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: think too much handling can get them worked up. And

653
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 3: so it's very common that people like I was just

654
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: petting my cat and you turn bit me, like why

655
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: is he such a jerk? And what's going on is

656
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: the touch goes from feeling pleasant.

657
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 8: To feeling irritating. And when we look at how cats

658
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 8: interact with other cats.

659
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: Are friendly with, they do these very frequent kind of

660
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: short like I'm gonna rub against you and just go.

661
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 8: On my way.

662
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when we interact with our cats, we tend

663
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: to like I want to petch you, I want to

664
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: cuddle you, you gotta hold you, kiss you, and like I

665
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: want to do this for a really long time because

666
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: you're so soft and I love you. And then the

667
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: cat's like enough, so you know you have to be yeah,

668
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: So you just.

669
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 8: Have to be aware and this, you know, I think

670
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 8: this is a really.

671
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: Good reason to talk about how cat sensory world is

672
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: so different from ours, because the common misunderstandings that we

673
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: have are often just based in the fact that we

674
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: think that our pets see and experience a world like

675
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 3: we do, and that's a dangerous assumption.

676
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: So, you know, knowing that cats are very sensitive, knowing

677
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: that we probably shouldn't pet them endlessly, I was also

678
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: curious about what are the best places to pet our cats.

679
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: So there's actually been a couple of studies on this

680
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: very topic, and what they converge upon is that most cats,

681
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: it's like, neck up is good, so cheek rubs, little

682
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 3: like behind the ears, most cats are gonna be okay

683
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 3: with that. Again, there's always gonna be exceptions. So when

684
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: we do a study of, you know, a group of animals,

685
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 3: you're gonna have some animals that are in one extreme

686
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: that like petting everywhere, right, and then you have cats

687
00:34:58,920 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: at the other end that.

688
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 8: Don't like guinea petting, and then most cats are somewhere

689
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 8: in between.

690
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: So you know, whenever I say okay, the most preferred

691
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: area is generally above the neck. Most cats do not

692
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 3: like the paws, the belly, the base of the tail,

693
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: Those are kind of the least favorite areas across all

694
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: the cats that were studied. If you're meeting a cat

695
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: for the first time and you don't know anything about

696
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: what this cat likes, stick to the cheek rubs. We

697
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 3: know most cats are going to be more comfortable with that.

698
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 3: Don't go right for the belly because some cats may

699
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: like a belly rub. But it's going to take you

700
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: all to get to know that cat and see what

701
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: they're comfortable with it, and also take them sometime to

702
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 3: get to know you and trust you.

703
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is all true, and I know

704
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 5: all of this, but I'm gonna kind of where I want.

705
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 5: I like it because because I'm feeding them garbage.

706
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 6: I know.

707
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 5: I I smother my cats. And Tyler will always be like,

708
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: you should see his or her face right now, because

709
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 5: I'm like, like, I.

710
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 2: Just want them as close as well as.

711
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 5: Possible, and their face is like and they I can

712
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 5: feel someone's like Ruby, especially like tensing underneath things let

713
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: me go, and so I try to be mindful. I

714
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: try to. I'm like, we both can compromise. You can

715
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 5: let me squeeze you for a little bit and I'll

716
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 5: I won't do it. Forever. Yeah, I think what's good

717
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 5: about getting the cats as kittens, which is what we did,

718
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 5: and what else people do, is you can help de

719
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 5: sensitize them to be like this is how it's gonna be,

720
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 5: Like you either are gonna I mean this makes it

721
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 5: sound like I'm like, no, I respect their boundaries and

722
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 5: like I know when they're pissed off because they make

723
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 5: it clear they'll do like their tails going all over,

724
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 5: the ears go back, and so I can tell when

725
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 5: they're overstimulated, and I'll give it a break. With the

726
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 5: moment we're back to normal, I'm like, all right, yea perfect.

727
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: And we'll get back to that kitten bit because socialization

728
00:36:53,640 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: is really important, especially when cats are young. So then

729
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: the sixth sense, which doctor Michael thoughts about in her book,

730
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: is the cat's sense of balance.

731
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 3: So cats have this very excellent sense of balance, which

732
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: is in part helped by their tail, which is really

733
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 3: an extension of their spine, so that whole you know,

734
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 3: I think again, something we can't really relate to is

735
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: a tail, but what that feels like and what it

736
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: allows you to do. But for cats, it does allow

737
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 3: them to connect their writing reflex, which is just their

738
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: desire to have their paws facing down right, so they

739
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 3: want to be upright. That's kind of what their body

740
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: says is safest and natural. But you know, if you

741
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: live with a cat, you'll see they will you know,

742
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 3: they can jump from the floor to three feet up

743
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 3: with no problem. They're on your counter before you know it,

744
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 3: or they're walking along a very narrow beam, So they

745
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: do have.

746
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 8: This incredible sense of balance.

747
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 3: And you may have heard like a cat will always

748
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 3: land on its feet. Do not try this at home.

749
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: So they do have again this writing reflex. If they

750
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 3: do fall from a higher like, they have to have

751
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 3: enough time to turn around. So if they fall from

752
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: a lower distance, they're actually more likely to suffer a

753
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: severe injury than higher up. So if they fall from

754
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: a certain height, they're more likely to be able to

755
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: turn around and land on their feet.

756
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 8: But that doesn't mean they won't injure themselves because when

757
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 8: land hard on their feet, the chin's going to hit

758
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 8: the ground.

759
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: They can break their jaw and so all kinds of

760
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: So do not allow your cat to jump out a window.

761
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 8: Or you know, do anything to test this.

762
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: It's really not something you want to spend the veterinary bill.

763
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 8: You don't want your.

764
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 3: Cat to die, but you know, there are certainly reports

765
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 3: and cases of what we call high rise syndromer. Cats

766
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: do fall out a window and survive, and it seems

767
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: to be because they can turn around.

768
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 9: The adorable four and a half year old Egyptian now

769
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 9: plunge thirteen stories from his owner's penthouse balcony and somehow

770
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 9: live to tell the tale. Well, that is, if he

771
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 9: could actually talk.

772
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: It's definitely a miracle.

773
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: Again, not something you want to like test, because not

774
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: every cat is going to survive, and of course you

775
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 3: may not hear about the cats who die after they.

776
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: Fall out with you.

777
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 8: So so let's not test.

778
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 6: This.

779
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: Not that much of a news story, you know, all right?

780
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: Chapter three, does my cat hate me? All Right, we're

781
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna transition now from the senses to talking

782
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: a little bit about their personalities. I feel like usually

783
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: when we're talking about stereotypes, dog's rate.

784
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: Loving, they're loyal.

785
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: Cats are usually get a bad rap as being standoffish,

786
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: like really conniving, always having some like alternative motives.

787
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 2: Even when we.

788
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: Were chatting in your apartment, you know, you describe one

789
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: of your cats, who's more friendly is more dog?

790
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: Like more dog?

791
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,959
Speaker 6: I said, he's more of a dog, and.

792
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: Then Ruby, you're like, geez a bit more like a

793
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: true cat. So I was curious about doctor Michael's point

794
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: of view on this. You know, what about this is

795
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: true and what are these our misconceptions in terms of

796
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: cat personalities.

797
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: What I would say is true about that is that

798
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: that is how people feel, whether or not that is

799
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: how cats are. I think there are certain things that

800
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: make dogs appear more friendly and loyal, and some of

801
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: that is their facial expressions.

802
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 8: Right, So there's evidence that we've.

803
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: Actually selected dogs to like be able to raise their

804
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 3: eyebrows and they.

805
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 8: Had that smile.

806
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: Right, It's like, yeah, like you see that, and what

807
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: it reflects back to you is like I'm happy, I

808
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: love you.

809
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 8: You look at a cat and you see nothing.

810
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's just like a stare, right, It's kind of

811
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: this like stoic. And part of that is they just

812
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 3: don't have as many facial muscles as dogs. We know

813
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 3: that cats actually do make a lot of very subtle

814
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 3: facial expressions.

815
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 8: There was a study that.

816
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 3: Came out I think last year showing, like, you know,

817
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: over two hundred and seventy seven, like different combinations of

818
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 3: facial changes that they use when.

819
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 8: They're interacting with other cats.

820
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 3: But we have a hard time reading their expressions because

821
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: they're much more subtle than dogs and they don't have

822
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 3: the same kind of human.

823
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 8: Like appearance that a lot of dogs do. So I

824
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 8: think that's part of it.

825
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 3: We've also again back to that domestication question, right, Like,

826
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 3: you know, dogs were domesticated many thousands of years before cats,

827
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 3: and so I think that we have selected dogs to

828
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: kind of be our buddy, right, and we also socialize

829
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: them as puppies to go out in the world with

830
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: us and you know, go to the coffee shop and

831
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: go camping or whatever, and a lot of cats are

832
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 3: not well adapted.

833
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 8: To that kind of lifestyle.

834
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 3: So I think it's just, you know, part of it is,

835
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 3: you know, maybe people who want a more like obvious

836
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: friendship and like loyalty go for dogs, and then those

837
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 3: of us who like a little.

838
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 8: Mystery and like have a little more tolerance for.

839
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 3: Like uncertainty, might choose a cat. One of my biggest

840
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: pet peeves is when you meet a really nice cat

841
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: and the first thing people say is like, oh, he's

842
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: just like a dog and so yes, right, so people

843
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: always yesterday when you met your friends yet right, So,

844
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 3: so I think we have to recognize that there's there's

845
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: a range of behaviors that we'll see in cats, and

846
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: some of that, you know, that dog like personality is

847
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 3: based in genetics. Some of it is based in early

848
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: life experiences during the cat's socialization window, which is like

849
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: two to nine ish weeks of age. So during that period,

850
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 3: ideally kittens would be handled positively and gently by many

851
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: different people, and that's just a period where kittens are

852
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: very open to new experiences and they learn very quickly.

853
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 3: So when kittens do not get a lot of handling

854
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 3: from two to nine weeks of age, or a lot

855
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: of exposure to different people, different experiences, then every time

856
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: they encounter those things as adults, it's kind of like

857
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 3: a new, potentially scary thing that they did not that

858
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: kind of didn't happen in their early period where it

859
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 3: was like I'm learning about what's safe in the world.

860
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: So that is really I think one of the key

861
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 3: reasons that people struggle with cats is that they if

862
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 3: they didn't get that positive exposure when they were young,

863
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 3: it's just harder for them to adapt as an adult,

864
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: and unfortunately most people, I mean, you can't adopt a

865
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 3: kitten before they're eight weeks of age. You know, a

866
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 3: lot of cats are born on the streets and then

867
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: get brought to the shelter, and so they're not getting

868
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: a lot of experience being a pet in that early

869
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: part of their life. Whereas for dogs, the dog socialization

870
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: window starts a little later and it goes a lot longer.

871
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: So it's just a lot easier to help a dog

872
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 3: adapt to living with humans than it is for cats.

873
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 3: People do tend to project a lot of negative emotions

874
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 3: onto cats, like oh, he's spiteful, or he.

875
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 8: Wants to kill me.

876
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 3: Like you know, there was a study that came out

877
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 3: years ago where they found that like some cats had

878
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 3: eaten dead people, and like it turned Toto, like, is

879
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: my cat going to eat.

880
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 8: Me when I die?

881
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: You know, it's just like this whole like your cat

882
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 3: is somehow just waiting.

883
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 8: For you to die so they can eat you.

884
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 3: You know, cats are not inherently evil. They're animals, just

885
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 3: like we are. They have certain motivations and instincts and needs.

886
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: I really try to not project too much and certainly

887
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: not project negative stuff because I think it doesn't help cats.

888
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 5: Well, I will go on records and my cats are

889
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 5: welcome to eat me. The least I could do for them.

890
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 5: If I'm leaving them behind, they can't open a can.

891
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

892
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: And she talks about to you how I feel like

893
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: cats have a bit more boundaries than dogs do, and

894
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: she says, like cats are good teachers of consent.

895
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 5: I was so I was literally going to bring up

896
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 5: I wrote a piece for GQ about cat dads after,

897
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 5: like I think it was jd Vance made that like

898
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 5: crazy cat lady comment.

899
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 6: I was like, well, they're a crazy cat men too, And.

900
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 5: I talked to some and one of the things that

901
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 5: was coming was coming up about why like it's good

902
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 5: for I mean, anyone, but like why there was a

903
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 5: particular type of guy who had like like cats, is

904
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 5: that it does require a bit of gentleness and patience,

905
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 5: and you do have to start. You have to learn

906
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 5: to read cues about like whether they want to be

907
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 5: pet and things like that. And I remember hearing that

908
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 5: and being like, I feel like maybe if everyone just

909
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 5: had a cat, yeah, I would solve a lot of.

910
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: Problems, solve the male lonely Yeah.

911
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 6: I get a cat.

912
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: It's like when women have been lonely for hundreds of years,

913
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 5: We've just getting cat.

914
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 6: Try it out.

915
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, try it out.

916
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: So there's also a lot of theories out there about

917
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: what a cats few us as like their mothers.

918
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm very interested in this.

919
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: Order children are they are the other cats? Uh so,

920
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: I asked doctor Michael.

921
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. And unfortunately we can't ask

922
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 3: cats directly, right, so we have to really infer a

923
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: lot from how they behave around us and how they

924
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 3: behave around other cats and try to figure out what

925
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 3: is this relationship to them. So we do see cats

926
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 3: doing behaviors to humans that they would do to other cats,

927
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 3: say a kitten would do to their mom, and so

928
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: a classic example would be mawing. You don't see cats

929
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 3: very often at other cats unless they're kittens. Kittens me

930
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: out for mom a lot, right, just like we call

931
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: mom for help when we're mom, like, you know, I

932
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 3: don't feel well ready. We're always like mom, mom or dad,

933
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 3: you know. But but for kittens, so they meow a lot,

934
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 3: and then they kind of don't me out an adult

935
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: when they're adults at other cats, but they may out

936
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: at people a fair amount, right, So it might be

937
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 3: I want food, I want to go out, I want

938
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: to play, I want you to pay attention to me.

939
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 8: I bored.

940
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,959
Speaker 3: There's kind of one check in the were their parent, right,

941
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 3: So because they mail at us and kittens me out

942
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 3: with their moms, we also see things like rubbing against us.

943
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 3: So like, if you're hanging out with a cat, off

944
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 3: can rub against your legs, especially if they want something. Right, So,

945
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: again something that kittens will do to their moms, So

946
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: that would also suggest they see us maybe as a

947
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 3: slightly parental or caregiving role. However, they also do things

948
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: that would suggest more like a friendship.

949
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 9: Right.

950
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: So cats who are friends with each other will cuddle

951
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 3: and groom each other, and so a lot of cats,

952
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: you know, like to lay on us or cuddle with us,

953
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: or lick our hands, and so that would be like

954
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,439
Speaker 3: more in the friends category. I don't see a ton

955
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 3: of evidence that they view us as children or offspring, right.

956
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 3: A lot of people think like, oh, my cat brought

957
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 3: a mouse home, you must think I'm hungry, right, and

958
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: that Yeah, so that's probably not what is going on.

959
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: Because we also know that cats will carry their prey

960
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: to somewhere they feel safer to eat, So the simplest

961
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 3: explanation for that behavior would be your cat is simply

962
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 3: carrying the food somewhere they feel safe, and then they

963
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: go to their food bowl and eat them cat food.

964
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: And they're not that interested in eating the mouse, so

965
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 3: they're probably not bringing us a present or trying to

966
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: feed us, or worried that we're starving. So I think,

967
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: you know, the most logical explanation is that we're somewhere

968
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 3: between a parent slash caregiver and.

969
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 8: A best friend.

970
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 5: You know what, maybe that's why the rescue didn't respond

971
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 5: to my email, because I'm my cat small and they

972
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 5: wanted me.

973
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: To learn your cats teen mom.

974
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 7: You know.

975
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take a quick break and when

976
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: we get back, we'll get an answer to our question

977
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: our outdoor cats happier than indoor cats?

978
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: All right, so we're back. I'm Noah, I'm Kate, Devin.

979
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: All Right, it's time for our big question chapter What

980
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: chapter are we on? Chapter four? Who's happier? They all

981
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: have their individual needs and personalities, but just in a

982
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: general sense, wouldn't a cat that's able to explore everything

983
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: in a world outside have a more fulfilling life than

984
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: a cat that is stuck inside, you know, let's say

985
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: in New York City apartment.

986
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think even the way you frame the question,

987
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's like the cat is stuck inside, right, Yeah,

988
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: exploring the world.

989
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 8: So we have very.

990
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 3: Strong opinions about this, and you know.

991
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 8: It's it's it's an ethical question.

992
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 3: It's there are many factors to consider, and as as

993
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 3: you might expect, I'm not going to give like a

994
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: one size fits all is there's no easy answer, right I. So,

995
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 3: I worked in an animal shelter for many years, and

996
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 3: we did have an indoor only policy, right. We wanted

997
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: our adopters to keep their cats indoors only. And my

998
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: own cats have been indoors only, and it wasn't until

999
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 3: my so, not the cats I have currently, but my

1000
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 3: last cat, Clara Belle, she was probably about fourteen years

1001
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 3: old when we decided to take her outside in our

1002
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: backyard on a harness. She'd been indoors the whole time

1003
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 3: we'd had her, so we'd had her for thirteen plus years.

1004
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 3: She always seemed very happy. She was a very loving,

1005
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: playful cat. We provided her with lots of cool stuff,

1006
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 3: you know, cat trees to climb and things to scratch

1007
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: and places to sleep and heated beds and toys to

1008
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: play with and all that stuff.

1009
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 8: But when she started.

1010
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 3: Going outside on her harness, it was like, Oh, this

1011
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 3: is a different cat. She really really really loved it

1012
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: and all she was doing, honestly because she was, you know,

1013
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: a senior, she would go outside, roll in the grass

1014
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: for a few minutes and then she just lay there

1015
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 3: in the sun and you know, kind of watch the

1016
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: birds or whatever. So then I was like, wow, like

1017
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: this was it was obviously even though again and she'd

1018
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 3: never had behavior problem, she was a loving, amazing cat,

1019
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 3: like she'd never seemed deprived of anything, but it was

1020
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 3: clear that this was intrinsically different than just sitting in

1021
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 3: a window. And you know, yeah, so I'd say since then,

1022
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: my perspective on whether or not cats should have some

1023
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 3: type of outdoor access has changed, and I do think

1024
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 3: that a lot of cats benefit from some type of

1025
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,959
Speaker 3: outdoor access. So my cats currently have a cadio, which

1026
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 3: is like a you know, a patio for cat.

1027
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very trendy on like TikTok and stuff. I've

1028
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: seen people putting them out, like can you explain kind

1029
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: of what a cad is.

1030
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's really just an enclosure that allows your

1031
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: cat to be outside, but they cannot wander, right, And

1032
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 3: so that's kind of what I've what I've gravitated towards

1033
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 3: is the question is not should cats have outdoor access,

1034
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: but the question is should they be allowed to free roam?

1035
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: And free roaming is really where the coal problems come

1036
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 3: into play. So for example, bird killing and you know,

1037
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: dangers to the cat, whether it's being hit by a

1038
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 3: car or fighting with other animals, or poisons. And also

1039
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: the neighborly consideration. So when someone's cat free roams, I

1040
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 3: can tell you because my neighbor's cat free roams, she

1041
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: comes and you know, uses my sideyard as a litterbox,

1042
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 3: which I don't appreciate. Right, So do I think cats

1043
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 3: can be happy indoors? Yes they can be, but it's work.

1044
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 3: So I think cats have this reputation of being low maintenance.

1045
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 3: You hear it all the time like, oh, if you're

1046
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 3: too busy for a dog, get a cat. Well, cats

1047
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: need stimulation of all o their senses. They need things

1048
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: to climb on, they need things to scratch, they need

1049
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 3: a clean place to go to the bathroom. They need

1050
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: safe places to hide, they need a sensory stimulation, so

1051
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 3: they need you know, things like catnip or cat grass

1052
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 3: where they're you know, chewing and smelling. And they need

1053
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 3: things to play with so they can really practice their

1054
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 3: hunting skills in a safe way, so that would be

1055
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 3: with toys instead of with birds and mice. And they

1056
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 3: need human interaction, right whether that's cuddling or training or

1057
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: just hanging out with them, being a presence for them.

1058
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 3: So there, they really need a lot to thrive, a

1059
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 3: lot more than I think most people realize. And I'm

1060
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 3: also not saying to spill them a caddio and you

1061
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 3: don't have to do anything else, but I do think

1062
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 3: a lot of people treat it like, well, my cat

1063
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: goes outside, so I don't need a cat tree, I

1064
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 3: don't need a scratching post, I don't need a litter box.

1065
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 3: I don't need to play with him because he goes outside.

1066
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 3: And so the flip side I think is that people

1067
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 3: see the outdoor access is just kind of get out

1068
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: a jail free card, Like I don't have to do

1069
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 3: anything really except throw down some food because everything he

1070
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: wants is outside. The other thing is that I think

1071
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: the outdoors gets a little over glamorized as far as like, oh,

1072
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 3: it's not stressful at all. A lot of cats get

1073
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 3: into fights with other cats exactly, yes, and it's not pleasant.

1074
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: So I think we have to consider that as well.

1075
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 3: Like there's there's benefits and cost to everything, and so

1076
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: for me, like my preferred solution is a cadio because

1077
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 3: it does and I have like a little cat door,

1078
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: so my cats can go in and out of the

1079
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 3: cadio from my bedroom whenever they want. Some people do

1080
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 3: like harness training, which for some cats can be really

1081
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: fun and it really depends on the cat. Not all

1082
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 3: cats like being like in a public location or like

1083
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 3: the feeling of a harness, but a lot of cats do,

1084
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: so that can be a great solution. Or like you know,

1085
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 3: they make pet strollers that's less autonomy for the cat,

1086
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: but certainly an option for some kiddies. So that's kind

1087
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 3: of where I tend to go. Is like controlled outdoor access.

1088
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 3: So can cats be happy indoors, yes, but you get

1089
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: to put the work in. Do cats benefit from outdoor access? Yes,

1090
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 3: But I think safest and best is some type of

1091
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: controlled access rather than just free roaming.

1092
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 5: So that's like maybe they're they're happier. Outdoor cats are

1093
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 5: happier for the short time that they are alive, and

1094
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: so like they don't quite understand. Yeah, yeah, a good time,

1095
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 5: not a long time.

1096
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,479
Speaker 6: I've seen these cadeos as well.

1097
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really trying to I wish.

1098
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 5: It wouldn't be against the law for me to build

1099
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 5: one out one of my fires.

1100
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 7: This sounds a lot like the dog answer, especially as

1101
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 7: far as kind of attention where it's like, you know,

1102
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 7: my dog is pretty much an indoor dog, and it's like, oh,

1103
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 7: he would be so much happier if we move somewhere

1104
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 7: and could just be outside all day or something. But

1105
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 7: it's like you still need to pay attention to the

1106
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 7: dog and do these things, and like the dog might

1107
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 7: be bored or whatever, not to mention then the dangers

1108
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 7: that are around. But yeah, sounds very similar as far

1109
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 7: as then even if your cats are indoors and have

1110
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 7: a bunch of things, you need to hang out with them,

1111
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 7: or then if they outdoors, you still need to hang

1112
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 7: out with them or get stuff. So it definitely echoes

1113
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 7: that sort of sentiment a lot.

1114
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's no shorthand right.

1115
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: It's like if all these situations comes down to, you know,

1116
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: caregiving and actually being attentive and not just getting an

1117
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: animal and feeding them and thing and oh my job

1118
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: here is done.

1119
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you actually have to engage.

1120
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not just like a roommate or.

1121
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: Over here. But I think people think of cats in

1122
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 2: that way.

1123
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, there was.

1124
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 5: I think it's hard for me to even picture, like,

1125
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 5: ask someone who loves cats so much how you could

1126
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 5: just get one and then not interact with it.

1127
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 6: Like they're very funny little guys. I believe.

1128
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 5: I do think if I took them outside, they would

1129
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 5: need to be leashed. But the idea of getting we

1130
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 5: didn't even touch. Like, I don't know how you get

1131
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 5: a cat who's a typical cat into a leash because

1132
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 5: Ruby would not stand for.

1133
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: Anything puting a hardness on them.

1134
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely not. Yeah.

1135
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe you know, maybe get a stroller.

1136
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 5: I think it might be I'll see, Yeah, I mean

1137
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 5: Hanna had to move across the country. Maybe it's in storage, yeah,

1138
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 5: stroller or the backpack. So yeah, yes, yeah, I love

1139
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 5: I love when you end up on the business end

1140
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 5: of that and you're just like, I'm just going to

1141
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 5: follow you wherever you go, all.

1142
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 2: Right, Kate, So how do you feel?

1143
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 6: You know, I feel I feel good.

1144
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 5: I feel good knowing that, like because I think I

1145
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 5: was really worried it was going to be they you know,

1146
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 5: they're really unhappy.

1147
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: But you're really attentive.

1148
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would like to think so. I think.

1149
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 5: I think the biggest outcome from this much of Tyler's

1150
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 5: delight is I want to get like a cat tree

1151
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 5: or something to give them a bit more stimulation for

1152
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 5: for you know, approximating being outside being high up scratching.

1153
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 5: But these two cats like they're so they're bonded pair

1154
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 5: of their brother and sister. Like honestly, I feel like

1155
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 5: as long as long as they have each other, they

1156
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 5: seem pretty happy.

1157
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: Hessys No Such Thing is a production of Kaleidoscope Content.

1158
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Kate Osborne and Mengesh Hadakadur. The

1159
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: show was created by Many, Fidel North Friedman and Me

1160
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: Devin Joseph. Theme in credits by Many Fidel, Congrats Manny

1161
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: and Mia on being new parents to baby Lula. Mixing

1162
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: for this episode is by Steve Bone. Additional music for

1163
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: this episode by Zo Peterrelli. Filling in as the third

1164
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: mic this week was Kate Lindsay. Check out her newsletter

1165
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: embedded in her podcast I See y Am I. Our

1166
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: expert this week was doctor Michael Delgado. Check out her

1167
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: book Play with Your Cat.

1168
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 2: We're gonna put a link to it in our show notes.

1169
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: Visit No Such Thing That Show to subscribe to our newsletter,

1170
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: and some pics of Kate's little baby kittens.

1171
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: They're not kittens, they're grown ass cats. Now.

1172
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: If you have feedback for us or question, email us

1173
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: at man Email Advin at gmail dot com.

1174
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 2: If you're in the US.

1175
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: You can leave us a voicemail by calling the number

1176
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: and our show notes. Check us out on Instagram. No

1177
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: Such Thing That Show. We'll be back next week with

1178
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: a new episode Such Things