WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Christina Pipkin Part 2 (Archive Episode)

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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<v Speaker 1>case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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<v Speaker 1>from family and community members, their statements should not be

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<v Speaker 1>considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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<v Speaker 1>inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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<v Speaker 1>presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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<v Speaker 1>that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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<v Speaker 1>is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 2>On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine year old Christina

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<v Speaker 2>Pipkin was selling jewelry door to door for a school

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<v Speaker 2>fundraiser in her hometown of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to be home before dark, but she never made

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<v Speaker 2>it back. Her parents, Frida and James, frantically looked for her.

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<v Speaker 2>They called friends and volunteers and scoured the area, but

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<v Speaker 2>found no signs of Christina. This little girl seemed to

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<v Speaker 2>have vanished into thin air. They got an answer, but

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't the answer. They were hoping for. Three days later,

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<v Speaker 2>on May seventh, nineteen ninety one, Christina Pipkin's body was

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<v Speaker 2>found floating in cow Lake Ditch. Almost twenty three years later,

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<v Speaker 2>this case is still unsolved.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Catherine Townsend.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have a case you'd like me and my

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<v Speaker 2>team to look into, you can reach out to us

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<v Speaker 2>at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

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<v Speaker 2>seven four four six' one four or. Five this Is

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<v Speaker 2>Helen Gone Murder. Line by the. Way as you can,

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<v Speaker 2>Tell i've been talking to a lot of people this,

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<v Speaker 2>week So i've lost my voice a little.

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<v Speaker 3>Bit please excuse.

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<v Speaker 2>Me i'm In Hickory ridge for a meeting With Amy, tubbs,

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<v Speaker 2>who AS i mentioned in the last, episode is married

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<v Speaker 2>To Robbie Tubbs. Junior she's the daughter in law Of

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<v Speaker 2>Robbie Tubbs. Sr who is a suspect In christina's. Murder

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<v Speaker 2>back in the, Nineties robbie was arrested and he was

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<v Speaker 2>charged With Christina pippkins's, murder but as we said in

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<v Speaker 2>the last, episode he was released after there was.

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<v Speaker 3>A mistake with THE dna.

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<v Speaker 2>Testing the Prosecutor Fletcher long admitted that instead of testing

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<v Speaker 2>hair from a vehicle once owned By Robbie. Tubbs law

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<v Speaker 2>enforcement tested the wrong, hair and then when they tried

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<v Speaker 2>to correct that, error they said that there wasn't ENOUGH

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<v Speaker 2>dna on the hair that was Inside Robbie tubb's car to.

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<v Speaker 2>TEST i still wonder is that hair still around and

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<v Speaker 2>with today's, technology could it be.

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<v Speaker 3>Retested that's just.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the many questions we're going to be asking

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<v Speaker 2>as we investigate this. Case amy said that since she

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<v Speaker 2>started dating her, husband they've never really had contact with his,

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<v Speaker 2>Father Robbie. Senor she said she's heard That Robbie senior

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<v Speaker 2>has a criminal background and that, he's in her, words

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<v Speaker 2>and not a great. Guy but as she pointed, out

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<v Speaker 2>that's quite a different thing from being a child. Killer

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<v Speaker 2>amy wanted to know If Robbie senior was capable of

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<v Speaker 2>committing this horrific. Crime she is, clear if he is

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<v Speaker 2>the right, person he needs to be, charged and if

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<v Speaker 2>it's someone, else we need to figure out who they

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<v Speaker 2>are and where they. Are either way charging a suspect

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<v Speaker 2>and then having those charges fall apart and seeing the

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<v Speaker 2>person you believe is guilty. Released As i've said for

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<v Speaker 2>a long, time this should not be a stopping.

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<v Speaker 3>Point for law.

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<v Speaker 2>Enforcement either you need to get more evidence on your,

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<v Speaker 2>suspect or you need to find the right person to.

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<v Speaker 2>Charge amy and our meeting In Hickory ridge in the.

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<v Speaker 2>Morning there's really only one place in, town the only

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<v Speaker 2>coffee shop for Miles cafe forty. Nine how do you

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<v Speaker 2>get around the not being An Arkansas.

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<v Speaker 3>So amy AND i are catching. Up we've had some exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>Developments both of our FOYER a quests were, granted so

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<v Speaker 2>we now have access to the Entire Christina pipkin case,

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<v Speaker 2>file all two hundred pages of.

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<v Speaker 3>It that's the good.

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<v Speaker 2>News the bad news is that there is no audio

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<v Speaker 2>of the original interviews and there are no. Photos The

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<v Speaker 2>Arkansas State police have also not released the autopsy. Report

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<v Speaker 2>it's not part of the case. File there are also

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<v Speaker 2>almost no, transcripts so all we have of the police

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<v Speaker 2>interviews are these short type. Pages presumably they were taken

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<v Speaker 2>from notes and then. Transcribed SINCE i have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of experience with case, FILES i want to verify everything.

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<v Speaker 2>OURSELVES i want to get in touch with everyone we

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<v Speaker 2>can who isn't dead and is willing to. Talk we've

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<v Speaker 2>come here To East arkansas to see if there is

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<v Speaker 2>anyone around who was there on the Day christina went.

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<v Speaker 2>Missing this could be our only hope for getting new.

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<v Speaker 3>Information i'll take one.

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<v Speaker 2>More amy Brought, denise who describes her self as an

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<v Speaker 2>amateur sleuth who's been working on the case for a long.

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<v Speaker 2>Time denise has also brought a friend who says she

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<v Speaker 2>just wants to be in the. Background she spends her

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<v Speaker 2>time As denise's, sidekick helping her find addresses and get

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<v Speaker 2>into contact with. People after we get our, coffee we

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<v Speaker 2>start talking to some other people in the.

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<v Speaker 3>Cafe was that the little girl she's found it in

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<v Speaker 3>a ditch right out?

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<v Speaker 4>Here?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, YEAH i.

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<v Speaker 3>THINK i mean this was this happened BEFORE i was.

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<v Speaker 2>Born and then WHAT i heard was that her stepdad

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<v Speaker 2>had drowned. Her and she was. Now she said that

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<v Speaker 2>she Heard christina's stepdad had drowned. Her that was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the Rumors we've been hearing a lot that someone

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<v Speaker 2>In christina's family did this to her and then there

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<v Speaker 2>was a cover. Up some people have Blamed christina's, mom

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<v Speaker 2>others her. Dad some people have even mentioned a, stepdad

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<v Speaker 2>even though that would be impossible Since christina didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>have a.

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<v Speaker 3>Stepfather But i've heard that Story i've heard that story.

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<v Speaker 1>Too, YEAH i heard that story, Too but, no she

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have.

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<v Speaker 2>A stepdad That this is just one of many versions

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<v Speaker 2>of rumors that have been flying around town Since christina went.

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<v Speaker 2>Missing the woman we talked to brought her mom, over

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<v Speaker 2>and her mom knew a. Lot she said she was

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<v Speaker 2>in high school at the time and was part of

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<v Speaker 2>the search.

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<v Speaker 3>PARTY i JUST i remember searching the.

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<v Speaker 4>Town it's heard that she didn't gone door to door

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<v Speaker 4>selling something for, school just we searched for days and

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<v Speaker 4>days and days and.

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<v Speaker 2>Days she mentioned another rumor That i've heard a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of that the reason she believed someone In christina's family

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<v Speaker 2>did this was because apparently no water from the ditch

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<v Speaker 2>Where christina's body was found was found in her. Lungs

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<v Speaker 2>she had, chlorinated so it had to have come from

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<v Speaker 2>a bathtub or something there about this led them to

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<v Speaker 2>believe she had been drowned in a bathtub and then

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<v Speaker 2>taken out there and.

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<v Speaker 3>Dumped this is one of those rumors we.

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<v Speaker 2>Can shut down right, now because even though we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>get the actual autopsy report as part of the case,

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<v Speaker 2>file we did get some documents that refer to interviews

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<v Speaker 2>with a medical examiner and to forensic testing that was

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<v Speaker 2>done On christina's. Body the results of those tests showed

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<v Speaker 2>that the water and mud In Christina pipkins's lungs matched

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<v Speaker 2>the water From Cow Lake, ditch the body of water

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<v Speaker 2>where she was. Found we also learned from the case

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<v Speaker 2>file that Fawm Me malick did the autopsy because one

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<v Speaker 2>of the investigators put a report.

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<v Speaker 3>In the case.

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<v Speaker 2>File he talked about meeting with Doctor malik to discuss

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<v Speaker 2>some of his. Conclusions i've talked a lot about Doctor

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<v Speaker 2>malik's controversial history on previous. Podcasts he was the medical

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<v Speaker 2>examiner In arkansas who was found to have botched hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of autopsies back in the eighties and. Nineties in, fact

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<v Speaker 2>the time period when he Did christina's autopsy was not

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<v Speaker 2>long before he was forced into. Retirement but for the,

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<v Speaker 2>moment until we're proven, otherwise we're going to take the

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<v Speaker 2>information that we get about the autopsy at face. Value

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor malik indicated there was obvious. Decomposition we knew she

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<v Speaker 2>had been in the water for three. Days he also

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<v Speaker 2>said there were no signs of. Strangulation he said he

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<v Speaker 2>HAD x Rayed christina's body from the outside and from the.

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<v Speaker 2>Inside he said he could find no stab, wounds no

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<v Speaker 2>obvious cuts of, bruises and there was water and mud

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<v Speaker 2>found In christina's, stomach water that matched the water from the.

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<v Speaker 2>Ditch Doctor malik also found pickles and carrots In christina's.

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<v Speaker 2>Stomach we know That christina ate pot pie for lunch that.

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<v Speaker 2>Day we also know That Elsie, lyles her next door

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<v Speaker 2>neighbor and sometimes a, babysitter gave her a pickle as

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<v Speaker 2>a snack at around four. Pm the report, reads Quote

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor malik was emphatic he could find no other cause

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<v Speaker 2>of death other than drowning end. Quote but it also

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<v Speaker 2>says when given the supposition that one could smother an

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<v Speaker 2>individual to the point of unconscious and then throw that

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<v Speaker 2>person into the, river Doctor mallek could make no comment regarding,

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<v Speaker 2>this but said that this was the. Possibility in other,

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<v Speaker 2>words we can't tell from the limited information we have

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<v Speaker 2>Whether christina fell into the water on her own or

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<v Speaker 2>was thrown in, there or whether she was conscious at the,

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<v Speaker 2>time but we can rule out the rumor That christina

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<v Speaker 2>was drowned at home and then taken out to that

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<v Speaker 2>site where she was dumped by the Way christina's, Father,

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<v Speaker 2>james and everyone else in her family cooperated completely with.

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<v Speaker 2>Investigators James pipkin took and passed a light detector test

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<v Speaker 2>that's part of the case, file and he was cleared

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<v Speaker 2>by law. ENFORCEMENT i cannot imagine the pain of losing

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<v Speaker 2>a child and then after that having people in town

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<v Speaker 2>either think that you were involved somehow or that you

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<v Speaker 2>were hiding. Something Plus james had to go through the

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<v Speaker 2>pain of being asked about his marital problems issues he

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<v Speaker 2>had had previously with his Wife. Frieda that must have

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<v Speaker 2>also been a. Nightmare but, unfortunately when law enforcement is

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<v Speaker 2>looking through someone's pattern of, life they have to know

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<v Speaker 2>the history for, you the family. Members it's all part

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<v Speaker 2>of solving the. Puzzle there have been some other rumors

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<v Speaker 2>in this town that refuse to, die so we need

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<v Speaker 2>to check them out so we can figure out what

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<v Speaker 2>to investigate further and what else to rule. Out we

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<v Speaker 2>went to the place Where christina and her family lived

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<v Speaker 2>On Doughty. Street, okay so this was The bearcat right

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<v Speaker 2>where apparently everyone in town went that.

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<v Speaker 3>Day there's the. Bank the alley still runs behind the,

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<v Speaker 3>bank so this whole thing is. Tiny, Yeah and there's

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<v Speaker 3>the tracks right. There, yeah and then there's the little park.

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<v Speaker 3>School all that is back.

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<v Speaker 4>There christina lives this, House, no that, house this, lot

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<v Speaker 4>this lot where there is no more.

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<v Speaker 2>House there's no house there, now just a, vacant overgrown

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<v Speaker 2>lot with a home next.

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<v Speaker 3>Door we have a couple of goals here.

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<v Speaker 2>Today first of, all we want to take a look

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<v Speaker 2>at the place Where christina's house was On Doty street

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<v Speaker 2>and the place where she was last, seen The bearcat grocery.

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<v Speaker 2>Store it's not there anymore, now it's a. Tireshup denise

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<v Speaker 2>is talking me through the streets In christina's.

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<v Speaker 4>Neighborhood so that was her, house and then the house

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<v Speaker 4>they were saying that backed up on her yard would

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<v Speaker 4>have been that one over.

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<v Speaker 3>There, maybe, WELL i think that's something. Different or is

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<v Speaker 3>it destroyed? Now maybe? Yet see how these so Lass

0:12:58.761 --> 0:13:01.321
<v Speaker 3>that's What i'm, thinking and those houses might have been the.

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<v Speaker 2>Same but we see from the case file that police

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<v Speaker 2>talked To christina's Mom frida and Father. James they discussed

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.801
<v Speaker 2>what they did on the Day christina disappeared in a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more detail Than i've ever. Seen On, Saturday may,

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<v Speaker 2>Fourth frida said it started out as an Ordinary. Saturday

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<v Speaker 2>frida went to the post office that morning between nine

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<v Speaker 2>thirty and ten. Am when she got, Home christina and

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<v Speaker 2>her Brother adam were watching. Cartoons frida said she had

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:29.761
<v Speaker 2>some coffee with her Neighbor Pat.

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<v Speaker 3>Moore Then pat.

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<v Speaker 2>Left after a few, Minutes frida started cleaning and doing

0:13:34.481 --> 0:13:38.001
<v Speaker 2>laundry Because saturday was wash. Day at around eleven thirty or,

0:13:38.041 --> 0:13:41.401
<v Speaker 2>Twelve freda warmed up some pop. Pies they ate the pop,

0:13:41.441 --> 0:13:44.801
<v Speaker 2>pies and they had iced tea to. Drink after, lunch

0:13:45.081 --> 0:13:47.961
<v Speaker 2>she was hanging clothes out on the line When james

0:13:48.001 --> 0:13:50.641
<v Speaker 2>came out and showed her a picture of a used

0:13:50.641 --> 0:13:53.601
<v Speaker 2>car he had been looking out in the local. Magazine

0:13:53.641 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>she And james Took christina And adam and they went

0:13:55.801 --> 0:13:58.481
<v Speaker 2>To walmart and Went they bought a few things there

0:13:58.521 --> 0:14:02.441
<v Speaker 2>for the. House then they went To Cherry, valley a

0:14:02.561 --> 0:14:05.841
<v Speaker 2>town about fifteen miles east Of Hickory. Ridge they looked

0:14:05.881 --> 0:14:08.201
<v Speaker 2>at the, car a Blue mustang that was parked out

0:14:08.201 --> 0:14:10.761
<v Speaker 2>in the seller's. Yard they took a quick look at the,

0:14:10.801 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 2>car asked about the, price and left there around one.

0:14:13.721 --> 0:14:17.521
<v Speaker 2>Pm at some point they stopped At gaskin's grocery store

0:14:17.521 --> 0:14:21.201
<v Speaker 2>In vandaal they bought some pork, rinds and Apparently christina

0:14:21.241 --> 0:14:23.281
<v Speaker 2>had a few of the pork skins on the ride,

0:14:23.281 --> 0:14:26.041
<v Speaker 2>home but she didn't really eat a lot of them

0:14:26.081 --> 0:14:28.321
<v Speaker 2>because apparently they were a little bit pink and she

0:14:28.481 --> 0:14:32.601
<v Speaker 2>didn't love the. Taste the family got back, Home adam

0:14:32.641 --> 0:14:36.201
<v Speaker 2>And james were hanging out WATCHING. Tv christina played with

0:14:36.281 --> 0:14:38.721
<v Speaker 2>one Of frida's old makeup compacts that she had found lying.

0:14:38.721 --> 0:14:42.361
<v Speaker 2>Around james was programming THE vcr to tape the Movie

0:14:42.401 --> 0:14:44.761
<v Speaker 2>The hunt For Red october that was airing that. Night

0:14:45.721 --> 0:14:48.641
<v Speaker 2>at some, Point christina asked her parents if she could

0:14:48.641 --> 0:14:51.561
<v Speaker 2>go door to door to sell her. Jewelry she headed

0:14:51.601 --> 0:14:56.001
<v Speaker 2>out at around four thirty or FIVE. Pm NOW i

0:14:56.041 --> 0:14:58.601
<v Speaker 2>should say that what's in the case file differs from

0:14:58.601 --> 0:15:01.441
<v Speaker 2>what we've read in the, newspapers because in the newspapers

0:15:01.481 --> 0:15:03.761
<v Speaker 2>it said she asked her, Dad james if she could go.

0:15:03.841 --> 0:15:06.441
<v Speaker 2>Out he said no at, first then said, okay but

0:15:06.481 --> 0:15:09.281
<v Speaker 2>you have to be home before. Dark but in the case,

0:15:09.281 --> 0:15:13.001
<v Speaker 2>File james said he believed That christina had asked her

0:15:13.041 --> 0:15:16.161
<v Speaker 2>mother if she could go sell, jewelry though he does

0:15:16.241 --> 0:15:18.601
<v Speaker 2>mention the kids knew not to cross over to the

0:15:18.601 --> 0:15:22.201
<v Speaker 2>other side of the railroad. Tracks at around seven or

0:15:22.241 --> 0:15:25.441
<v Speaker 2>seven thirty, Pm frida realized she still needed a few

0:15:25.441 --> 0:15:28.121
<v Speaker 2>things from the. Store she ran up to The Bearcat,

0:15:28.161 --> 0:15:31.641
<v Speaker 2>grocery a couple of blocks from their. House the Bear

0:15:31.761 --> 0:15:34.401
<v Speaker 2>cat was next to the only bank in, Town Cross County.

0:15:34.401 --> 0:15:36.881
<v Speaker 3>Bank the two businesses shared a parking.

0:15:36.921 --> 0:15:40.841
<v Speaker 2>Lot at the, Store frida bought onions and, gravy and

0:15:40.881 --> 0:15:43.841
<v Speaker 2>potatoes and. Mushrooms she said she was only in the

0:15:44.001 --> 0:15:46.001
<v Speaker 2>for around five minutes and then she went right back.

0:15:46.001 --> 0:15:50.161
<v Speaker 2>Home she started to make dinner to fry. Potatoes at some,

0:15:50.281 --> 0:15:53.641
<v Speaker 2>point it started to get, dark and that's When christina's

0:15:53.681 --> 0:15:57.441
<v Speaker 2>parents realized that she hadn't made it. Home frida Sent

0:15:57.481 --> 0:16:00.521
<v Speaker 2>adam out to look for his. Sister pretty, quickly he

0:16:00.561 --> 0:16:03.961
<v Speaker 2>came back and said he couldn't find. Her that's When frieda, said,

0:16:04.041 --> 0:16:07.041
<v Speaker 2>QUOTE i had a gut feeling something was not. Right

0:16:07.481 --> 0:16:10.481
<v Speaker 2>this is a mother's. CONCERN i Sent adam out to Find.

0:16:10.561 --> 0:16:13.441
<v Speaker 2>Christina when he came back and said he couldn't find,

0:16:13.481 --> 0:16:16.041
<v Speaker 2>HER i knew something was wrong with my baby.

0:16:16.081 --> 0:16:16.721
<v Speaker 3>Girl end.

0:16:16.801 --> 0:16:21.001
<v Speaker 2>Quote james And frieda went around the. Neighborhood they went

0:16:21.041 --> 0:16:23.761
<v Speaker 2>to some apartments nearby Where christina had been selling her

0:16:23.841 --> 0:16:26.721
<v Speaker 2>Jewelry in the days before she went, Missing they went

0:16:26.761 --> 0:16:29.321
<v Speaker 2>to The bearcat store and then they went back home

0:16:29.401 --> 0:16:33.161
<v Speaker 2>in Case christina came. Back they called the police to

0:16:33.201 --> 0:16:37.441
<v Speaker 2>report her missing and the search. Started james said in

0:16:37.481 --> 0:16:40.841
<v Speaker 2>his statement Quote after the police, came we started a

0:16:40.881 --> 0:16:43.481
<v Speaker 2>house to house. SEARCH i went to several houses and

0:16:43.481 --> 0:16:45.561
<v Speaker 2>went back home to see if anyone had found. Her

0:16:45.761 --> 0:16:47.361
<v Speaker 2>after my brother in law got to the, house we

0:16:47.401 --> 0:16:50.601
<v Speaker 2>went out. SEARCHING i kept hoping she would show. UP

0:16:50.961 --> 0:16:53.521
<v Speaker 2>i did not believe this was. HAPPENING i wondered what

0:16:53.641 --> 0:16:55.881
<v Speaker 2>happened to? Her where could she? Be as we drove

0:16:55.921 --> 0:16:58.481
<v Speaker 2>around looking for, HER i was hoping to see her.

0:16:58.641 --> 0:17:00.961
<v Speaker 2>WALKING i, thought if she could just get, AWAY i

0:17:01.041 --> 0:17:03.721
<v Speaker 2>might see her on the. Road On sunday we went

0:17:03.761 --> 0:17:06.281
<v Speaker 2>searching some. MORE i didn't eat BECAUSE i couldn't, eat

0:17:06.801 --> 0:17:09.121
<v Speaker 2>not knowing if my baby girl had anything to. EAT

0:17:09.801 --> 0:17:11.801
<v Speaker 2>i was wondering how she was being. Treated was she?

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.561
<v Speaker 3>Cold was she?

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.640
<v Speaker 2>HUNGRY i kept hoping that whoever took her would let her.

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.561
<v Speaker 2>GO i kept looking up the street hoping THAT i

0:17:18.561 --> 0:17:20.680
<v Speaker 2>would see. HER i kept believing we would find her.

0:17:20.721 --> 0:17:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Alive even if she was, hurt we could get help for,

0:17:23.481 --> 0:17:26.481
<v Speaker 2>That but when they told me they had found her

0:17:26.521 --> 0:17:29.440
<v Speaker 2>and she was, dead how do you describe how do

0:17:29.521 --> 0:17:31.241
<v Speaker 2>you feel when you find out your daughter is?

0:17:31.281 --> 0:17:35.401
<v Speaker 3>Dead, angry, hurt. CONFUSED i don't know how to describe.

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 3>It end. QUOTE i don't know how.

0:17:38.961 --> 0:17:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Many of you have ever seen the movie Rosham, on

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.281
<v Speaker 2>but it's SOMETHING i think about a lot When i'm

0:17:43.321 --> 0:17:46.001
<v Speaker 2>doing in a bit. Instigation, now in that, movie there

0:17:46.001 --> 0:17:48.401
<v Speaker 2>are three different people and they're telling the story of

0:17:48.441 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 2>an assault and a. Murder each of them witness this

0:17:51.361 --> 0:17:55.161
<v Speaker 2>from their point of. View everyone saw exactly the same,

0:17:55.201 --> 0:17:59.041
<v Speaker 2>thing but each person gives you a different piece of the.

0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.281
<v Speaker 2>Story each person has another piece of the. Puzzle it's

0:18:03.321 --> 0:18:05.921
<v Speaker 2>the same thing with a murder. Investigation we have all

0:18:05.961 --> 0:18:09.201
<v Speaker 2>these people who are present at The bearcat convenience store

0:18:09.241 --> 0:18:11.880
<v Speaker 2>and the bank that. Afternoon each of them saw a

0:18:11.921 --> 0:18:14.961
<v Speaker 2>small slice Of christina's, day and we really need to

0:18:15.001 --> 0:18:19.400
<v Speaker 2>put all those multiple versions. Together, now, admittedly there's a separate,

0:18:19.401 --> 0:18:23.441
<v Speaker 2>problem which is that memory itself changes over, time even

0:18:23.481 --> 0:18:26.241
<v Speaker 2>if you have great, recall but we'll get to that. Later,

0:18:26.361 --> 0:18:28.321
<v Speaker 2>first we need to get as many points of view

0:18:28.321 --> 0:18:30.521
<v Speaker 2>as possible to try and fill in some of these

0:18:30.521 --> 0:18:34.761
<v Speaker 2>holes on the. Timeline so let's go back To may,

0:18:34.881 --> 0:18:39.441
<v Speaker 2>fourth nineteen ninety. One christina is. Missing over the next few,

0:18:39.521 --> 0:18:43.041
<v Speaker 2>days police started talking to, people and as happens often

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.360
<v Speaker 2>in small, town a few names got thrown. Around we

0:18:47.441 --> 0:18:50.321
<v Speaker 2>noticed something else in the case file that during this,

0:18:50.441 --> 0:18:53.241
<v Speaker 2>time quite a few people also mentioned they had seen

0:18:53.281 --> 0:18:56.041
<v Speaker 2>a blue car with a man driving, it one that

0:18:56.161 --> 0:18:58.441
<v Speaker 2>was in the bank parking lot and hanging around town

0:18:58.481 --> 0:19:01.681
<v Speaker 2>in general around the time When christina went. Missing that

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.241
<v Speaker 2>what we were about to find out was that people

0:19:04.321 --> 0:19:07.761
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of different descriptions of exactly what that

0:19:07.921 --> 0:19:12.881
<v Speaker 2>man and that vehicle looked. Like we measured the distance

0:19:12.921 --> 0:19:15.160
<v Speaker 2>from Where christina was last seen to where she was.

0:19:15.201 --> 0:19:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Found it was around three and a half, miles SO

0:19:18.201 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 2>i think police were. Right she was almost certainly driven

0:19:21.121 --> 0:19:25.160
<v Speaker 2>to that. Location so who drove her? There in a

0:19:25.201 --> 0:19:28.721
<v Speaker 2>town this, small it seems like somebody would have to

0:19:28.761 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 2>have seen. Something we need to find that, Car we

0:19:35.161 --> 0:19:38.241
<v Speaker 2>need to explore all of those, suspects figure out exactly

0:19:38.321 --> 0:19:41.521
<v Speaker 2>where everyone was on the Day christina went, missing and

0:19:41.601 --> 0:19:44.161
<v Speaker 2>also find out where this rumor about a blu carr.

0:19:44.241 --> 0:19:47.641
<v Speaker 2>Started one person the police talked to was The long,

0:19:47.721 --> 0:19:50.841
<v Speaker 2>Family they live right By christina's house at two eighty

0:19:50.881 --> 0:19:54.281
<v Speaker 2>Nine Doty. Street Michael, long who was twenty six at the,

0:19:54.321 --> 0:19:57.041
<v Speaker 2>time said that he was home That saturday afternoon at

0:19:57.041 --> 0:20:00.321
<v Speaker 2>around five. Pm he Said christina stopped by the house

0:20:00.361 --> 0:20:03.360
<v Speaker 2>looking for his little, sister who was Ten christina's, age

0:20:03.641 --> 0:20:06.401
<v Speaker 2>presumably to go door to door jewelry selling with. Her

0:20:06.921 --> 0:20:10.481
<v Speaker 2>his sister wasn't, home So christina. Left Michael satti next

0:20:10.481 --> 0:20:14.201
<v Speaker 2>Saw christina walking back south Down Third. Street then he

0:20:14.241 --> 0:20:17.281
<v Speaker 2>saw her turn west On Laurel street toward The bearcat's

0:20:17.321 --> 0:20:21.241
<v Speaker 2>door and the. Bank michael told police that about five

0:20:21.281 --> 0:20:24.281
<v Speaker 2>minutes After christina, left he went outside to check a

0:20:24.321 --> 0:20:26.920
<v Speaker 2>ditch for. Snakes, then he said he walked to The

0:20:26.921 --> 0:20:30.681
<v Speaker 2>bearcat for some. Cigarettes when he came, out he Saw

0:20:30.761 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 2>christina walking behind the alley At Cross County. Bank at that,

0:20:34.721 --> 0:20:37.521
<v Speaker 2>Point michael said she was headed. North this would have

0:20:37.601 --> 0:20:41.001
<v Speaker 2>been at around five thirty. Pm after, That michael said

0:20:41.041 --> 0:20:44.441
<v Speaker 2>he didn't see her. Again another family that lived next

0:20:44.441 --> 0:20:48.121
<v Speaker 2>to The pipkins were The, Moors pat And. Connie they

0:20:48.201 --> 0:20:50.921
<v Speaker 2>had a blue car registered to, them a nineteen seventy

0:20:51.001 --> 0:20:54.641
<v Speaker 2>Three Ford. Maverick on the Day christina went, missing two

0:20:54.681 --> 0:20:57.841
<v Speaker 2>friends of, Theirs Ricky dawson And james The, seers who

0:20:57.881 --> 0:21:00.241
<v Speaker 2>were eighteen and twenty at the, time came by the

0:21:00.241 --> 0:21:03.281
<v Speaker 2>house at around four. Thirty they were there to pick

0:21:03.361 --> 0:21:06.761
<v Speaker 2>Up ricky's, Girlfriend Jenna algood and her Friend April, jones

0:21:07.041 --> 0:21:10.201
<v Speaker 2>who were hanging out at the. Moorhouse, Ricky, james and

0:21:10.241 --> 0:21:12.360
<v Speaker 2>the two young women left for a night out on

0:21:12.401 --> 0:21:16.120
<v Speaker 2>the town And. Win but before they, Left ricky said

0:21:16.161 --> 0:21:18.281
<v Speaker 2>he remembered Seeing christina outside on her.

0:21:18.281 --> 0:21:18.801
<v Speaker 3>Porch next.

0:21:18.881 --> 0:21:23.241
<v Speaker 2>Door Ricky dawson was driving yet another blue, car his

0:21:23.321 --> 0:21:27.201
<v Speaker 2>mom's Blue camaro with rust on the. Side he said that, He,

0:21:27.521 --> 0:21:29.721
<v Speaker 2>james and the two girls went To win between five

0:21:29.801 --> 0:21:32.201
<v Speaker 2>thirty and six. Thirty he said they didn't come back

0:21:32.281 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>until around. Midnight by that, Time christina was missing and

0:21:36.121 --> 0:21:38.161
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of people were already out looking for. Her

0:21:39.201 --> 0:21:42.640
<v Speaker 2>so at that, point obviously things got pretty. Chaotic it

0:21:42.721 --> 0:21:46.521
<v Speaker 2>Was saturday. Night people were having, barbecues making, plans going on,

0:21:46.641 --> 0:21:49.400
<v Speaker 2>dates the sun was going down and the night was just.

0:21:49.441 --> 0:21:52.001
<v Speaker 2>Starting BUT i want to go back to the timeline

0:21:52.041 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and mention a couple of other people who told police

0:21:54.481 --> 0:21:57.761
<v Speaker 2>they noticed things that were slightly out of the ordinary Because,

0:21:57.801 --> 0:22:01.481
<v Speaker 2>obviously any event can have huge significance when someone goes.

0:22:01.521 --> 0:22:06.841
<v Speaker 2>Missing On may, seventh police went to The Hickory Ridge

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.921
<v Speaker 2>Elementary school and they interviewed several. Children they asked about

0:22:10.961 --> 0:22:13.881
<v Speaker 2>a stranger that the kids had seen around the time

0:22:13.921 --> 0:22:19.561
<v Speaker 2>When christina, disappeared but their descriptions were completely. Inconsistent the

0:22:19.601 --> 0:22:23.161
<v Speaker 2>police report said there were numerous inconsistencies in the kid's

0:22:23.241 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 2>stories and so because of, that the officer could not

0:22:25.721 --> 0:22:29.801
<v Speaker 2>follow through on completing a composite. Drawing this doesn't surprise

0:22:29.921 --> 0:22:31.880
<v Speaker 2>me because by the time those kids were, interviewed it

0:22:31.921 --> 0:22:35.160
<v Speaker 2>had been several days and, unfortunately in my, opinion what

0:22:35.321 --> 0:22:38.001
<v Speaker 2>happened probably was that the kids talked to each other

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.441
<v Speaker 2>over the, weekend so their stories took on elements of each.

0:22:41.481 --> 0:22:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Other's this is not.

0:22:43.041 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Uncommon so seventy two hours of, passed the whole town's

0:22:46.881 --> 0:22:50.721
<v Speaker 2>talking about a, kidnapping and suddenly the mysterious stranger had

0:22:50.761 --> 0:22:53.521
<v Speaker 2>gone from a white man with tan skin to A

0:22:53.601 --> 0:22:57.841
<v Speaker 2>Native american and Quote indian lookalike with high cheek bones

0:22:57.881 --> 0:23:02.161
<v Speaker 2>and black. Hair, now Because christina lived In Cross, county

0:23:02.441 --> 0:23:05.001
<v Speaker 2>but her body was found across the county line In Jackson,

0:23:05.001 --> 0:23:09.001
<v Speaker 2>county law enforcement met and decided That Jackson county would,

0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.001
<v Speaker 2>assist but that the jurisdiction would stay In Cross. County

0:23:12.801 --> 0:23:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Jackson county did question some, people mainly guys who were

0:23:16.241 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>arrested for other things like, dwi's but police really seemed

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.640
<v Speaker 2>to have pretty much zero leads and not much to go.

0:23:23.721 --> 0:23:28.161
<v Speaker 2>On there was another, family The. Earls they lived On Fourth,

0:23:28.241 --> 0:23:32.481
<v Speaker 2>street close To christina's. House Kim earles said that On saturday,

0:23:32.521 --> 0:23:35.401
<v Speaker 2>night just after, midnight she saw a young man in

0:23:35.441 --> 0:23:37.801
<v Speaker 2>a blue, car which she described as a late Model

0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:41.281
<v Speaker 2>transam Or. Camaro she said it had one of those

0:23:41.321 --> 0:23:45.281
<v Speaker 2>novelty break lights that glowed around the license plate when

0:23:45.281 --> 0:23:47.680
<v Speaker 2>you put on the. Brakes she said she saw that,

0:23:47.801 --> 0:23:50.120
<v Speaker 2>car which seems like it would be pretty memorable at

0:23:50.121 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 2>a McDonald's and. Win she said the guy driving it

0:23:53.121 --> 0:23:56.761
<v Speaker 2>was dark complexion with tan, skin medium, bill dark, eyebrows

0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.080
<v Speaker 2>and that that person was around six foot. Two other

0:24:00.121 --> 0:24:02.400
<v Speaker 2>people said there was a guy Named James hannah who

0:24:02.441 --> 0:24:05.241
<v Speaker 2>had a car like, that but when police showed a

0:24:05.281 --> 0:24:07.160
<v Speaker 2>picture Of James hannah to the, girls they said they

0:24:07.241 --> 0:24:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Knew James hannah and this was not him driving the.

0:24:09.681 --> 0:24:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Car they described the driver as dirty, looking and said

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.161
<v Speaker 2>that that person was a stranger to. Them kim said

0:24:17.201 --> 0:24:19.521
<v Speaker 2>that she had seen that same, man the one driving

0:24:19.521 --> 0:24:22.481
<v Speaker 2>the blue car with the light up, brakes around town

0:24:22.561 --> 0:24:25.401
<v Speaker 2>for the past few. Months she said that this mystery

0:24:25.441 --> 0:24:28.841
<v Speaker 2>guy had been parked near the bank On. Saturday her

0:24:28.921 --> 0:24:31.681
<v Speaker 2>and her Sister angela said that they believed that this

0:24:31.761 --> 0:24:36.241
<v Speaker 2>person had followed them to the tanning. Bed sharon And

0:24:36.361 --> 0:24:39.961
<v Speaker 2>Ricky holloman had a daughter who was friends With. Christina

0:24:40.801 --> 0:24:43.241
<v Speaker 2>sharon was another person who said she saw a blue

0:24:43.241 --> 0:24:46.001
<v Speaker 2>car that. Day she said it was sportsy looking and

0:24:46.041 --> 0:24:48.441
<v Speaker 2>had primer or rest spots on, it and that it

0:24:48.481 --> 0:24:50.961
<v Speaker 2>was speeding on the side streets Of Hickory ridge On saturday.

0:24:50.961 --> 0:24:54.961
<v Speaker 2>Afternoon she described the driver as clean, shaven with short

0:24:55.001 --> 0:24:58.361
<v Speaker 2>hair and chubby. Cheeks she said that she had seen

0:24:58.401 --> 0:25:00.961
<v Speaker 2>that same car several times a, week going over to

0:25:01.041 --> 0:25:04.361
<v Speaker 2>what she thought was The pipkin. Residence sharon And ricky

0:25:04.441 --> 0:25:06.360
<v Speaker 2>had a, daughter and their daughter was a friend Of.

0:25:06.441 --> 0:25:09.681
<v Speaker 2>Christina's she actually Saw christina on the afternoon that she,

0:25:09.721 --> 0:25:12.441
<v Speaker 2>disappeared and she said she saw her with a young

0:25:12.521 --> 0:25:15.521
<v Speaker 2>boy that had gone to school With. Christina the little

0:25:15.521 --> 0:25:17.041
<v Speaker 2>girl said she didn't know the boy's.

0:25:17.121 --> 0:25:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Name she.

0:25:17.961 --> 0:25:20.601
<v Speaker 2>Said for some, reason the boy would hide behind trees

0:25:21.161 --> 0:25:24.561
<v Speaker 2>And christina seemed, impatient and that when this friend tried

0:25:24.601 --> 0:25:27.521
<v Speaker 2>to talk To christina, finally she, said the boy caught

0:25:27.601 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 2>up To christina and started walking with, her and they

0:25:29.681 --> 0:25:33.441
<v Speaker 2>went off in the other. Direction christina's friend said the

0:25:33.521 --> 0:25:36.321
<v Speaker 2>last time she Saw, Christina christina was walking south on

0:25:36.441 --> 0:25:39.080
<v Speaker 2>the southbound shoulder Of highway forty, nine in front of

0:25:39.121 --> 0:25:42.841
<v Speaker 2>the Bear Cat, store so between The Bearcat Grocery store.

0:25:42.641 --> 0:25:43.120
<v Speaker 3>And the post.

0:25:43.121 --> 0:25:47.441
<v Speaker 2>Office she said the blue car was Following, christina driving,

0:25:47.481 --> 0:25:50.521
<v Speaker 2>slow and That christina was shaking her head no to

0:25:50.601 --> 0:25:53.761
<v Speaker 2>the person driving the. Car she described it as an

0:25:53.801 --> 0:25:56.921
<v Speaker 2>older blue colored car with some type of brownish rust

0:25:56.961 --> 0:25:59.360
<v Speaker 2>colored stains or rust on the lower portions of the.

0:25:59.361 --> 0:26:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Car the friend said that she rode her bike around

0:26:02.881 --> 0:26:04.521
<v Speaker 2>the bank one more time and that by the time

0:26:04.561 --> 0:26:06.561
<v Speaker 2>she got back to the, road she could not See

0:26:06.681 --> 0:26:10.281
<v Speaker 2>christina or the. Car the little girl didn't know what

0:26:10.321 --> 0:26:13.161
<v Speaker 2>time this, was but her mother said they had only

0:26:13.241 --> 0:26:15.441
<v Speaker 2>gotten back to their house at around seven, pm so

0:26:15.441 --> 0:26:17.441
<v Speaker 2>it would have had to have been a little bit after.

0:26:17.481 --> 0:26:21.001
<v Speaker 2>That if that's, true then this little girl may have

0:26:21.041 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 2>been the last person in the case for at least

0:26:23.361 --> 0:26:34.241
<v Speaker 2>to have Seen christina. Alive Christina pipkin's math teacher also

0:26:34.321 --> 0:26:37.041
<v Speaker 2>said she Saw christina outside of the Bear cat grocery that,

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:43.201
<v Speaker 2>afternoon and she said That christina was. Barefoot this seems

0:26:43.281 --> 0:26:48.481
<v Speaker 2>to solve another mystery because remember we mentioned That christina's

0:26:48.521 --> 0:26:51.121
<v Speaker 2>mother said she was wearing white sandals on the day

0:26:51.121 --> 0:26:55.281
<v Speaker 2>she went, missing but her sandals were not found with her.

0:26:55.321 --> 0:26:58.721
<v Speaker 2>Body but it seems Like christina had already ditched her

0:26:58.761 --> 0:27:02.121
<v Speaker 2>sandals because she was walking around that parking lot, Barefoot

0:27:02.281 --> 0:27:04.601
<v Speaker 2>so it seems less likely that her killer took them

0:27:04.721 --> 0:27:06.921
<v Speaker 2>or that they slipped off during some kind of. STRUGGLE

0:27:07.681 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 2>i still, wonder, though where are the? Sandals but in my,

0:27:13.201 --> 0:27:15.761
<v Speaker 2>mind if she was, barefoot that means it's even less

0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.401
<v Speaker 2>likely she would have made that over three mile walk

0:27:18.441 --> 0:27:23.761
<v Speaker 2>out to the area where she was. Found another name

0:27:23.801 --> 0:27:26.281
<v Speaker 2>that was mentioned in the case file early on Was

0:27:26.401 --> 0:27:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Charles Cotton. Junior Charles Cotton junior has a criminal, record

0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:36.001
<v Speaker 2>including charges for leude acts against a. Child, Now Charles

0:27:36.001 --> 0:27:38.641
<v Speaker 2>cotton would later tell a journalist In, Juno, alaska where

0:27:38.641 --> 0:27:40.880
<v Speaker 2>he was, living that that was all, mistake that what

0:27:41.041 --> 0:27:43.801
<v Speaker 2>happened was a child had walked in on him and

0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:46.241
<v Speaker 2>either his wife or girlfriend having sex on a, couch

0:27:46.681 --> 0:27:49.961
<v Speaker 2>that the whole thing was blown out of. Proportion that's

0:27:50.001 --> 0:27:51.961
<v Speaker 2>what a lot of sex offenders, say and the fact

0:27:52.001 --> 0:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>of the matter Is Charles cotton did have a lengthy

0:27:54.241 --> 0:27:58.201
<v Speaker 2>criminal record at the time When christina went. Missing Charles

0:27:58.201 --> 0:28:01.801
<v Speaker 2>cotton was. Married according to his, Wife Rebecca, cotton who

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.241
<v Speaker 2>was twenty one years old at the, time the couple

0:28:04.321 --> 0:28:06.481
<v Speaker 2>was living a little bit out of, town but we've

0:28:06.481 --> 0:28:09.120
<v Speaker 2>also been told by people close To christina's family That

0:28:09.241 --> 0:28:12.201
<v Speaker 2>Charles cotton was living right next. Door we're still trying

0:28:12.241 --> 0:28:14.641
<v Speaker 2>to figure out his exact location and movements at the.

0:28:14.681 --> 0:28:18.721
<v Speaker 2>Time we do know That Charles cotton was introduced To christina's, Father,

0:28:18.881 --> 0:28:22.321
<v Speaker 2>james by their next door, Neighbor Pat, Moore so as

0:28:22.361 --> 0:28:24.880
<v Speaker 2>far AS i can, Tell Charles cotton did spend some

0:28:24.961 --> 0:28:28.881
<v Speaker 2>time at the. Moorhouse that could potentially be why some

0:28:28.921 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 2>people believe That charles was living next. Door these guys

0:28:33.641 --> 0:28:37.801
<v Speaker 2>all had completely different physical. Descriptions Robbie tubbs was white

0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:40.241
<v Speaker 2>with tan skin and dark wavy hair that went down

0:28:40.281 --> 0:28:43.561
<v Speaker 2>toward his. Shoulders Charles cotton had blue eyes and blonde.

0:28:43.601 --> 0:28:46.961
<v Speaker 2>Hair we mentioned in the last episode that after hair

0:28:47.041 --> 0:28:49.681
<v Speaker 2>testing and the, trial the charges Against Robbie tubbs were.

0:28:49.721 --> 0:28:53.641
<v Speaker 2>Dropped he walked away a free. Man his last known

0:28:53.681 --> 0:28:56.041
<v Speaker 2>address is In Sulfur, Spring, texas.

0:28:56.001 --> 0:28:56.961
<v Speaker 3>But he's challenging to.

0:28:57.001 --> 0:29:01.041
<v Speaker 2>Find Charles cotton is much easier to. Find he's in

0:29:01.081 --> 0:29:05.881
<v Speaker 2>federal prison In Washington. State After christina's, Death Charles cotton

0:29:05.961 --> 0:29:08.721
<v Speaker 2>got into some more issues with the, law and eventually

0:29:08.921 --> 0:29:13.561
<v Speaker 2>he found. Love in twenty, Eleven charles reconnected with a

0:29:13.561 --> 0:29:16.721
<v Speaker 2>woman Named. Penny they actually grew up together and they

0:29:16.761 --> 0:29:19.201
<v Speaker 2>met while they were both students and went high school

0:29:19.201 --> 0:29:19.481
<v Speaker 2>back in the.

0:29:19.561 --> 0:29:21.161
<v Speaker 3>Day back.

0:29:21.201 --> 0:29:23.081
<v Speaker 2>Then they, dated but they broke up and they didn't

0:29:23.081 --> 0:29:26.241
<v Speaker 2>see each other for. Years this, time, though once they,

0:29:26.281 --> 0:29:30.241
<v Speaker 2>reconnected that relationship got. Serious they got married And penny

0:29:30.321 --> 0:29:34.681
<v Speaker 2>moved With charles To, Juneo, alaska but their fresh start

0:29:34.761 --> 0:29:38.881
<v Speaker 2>did not last. Long In, Juno Charles cotton started managing

0:29:38.881 --> 0:29:41.841
<v Speaker 2>a hotel called The Bergmann. Hotel it was a historic

0:29:41.881 --> 0:29:45.281
<v Speaker 2>structure that had become run down over the. Year in twenty,

0:29:45.321 --> 0:29:49.161
<v Speaker 2>sixteen he took that dilapidated building that had become a

0:29:49.201 --> 0:29:52.601
<v Speaker 2>hangout for people doing drugs and other illegal things and

0:29:52.641 --> 0:29:54.881
<v Speaker 2>said he was going to turn it. Around at one,

0:29:54.921 --> 0:29:57.401
<v Speaker 2>point he actually made local news as someone who had

0:29:57.441 --> 0:29:59.801
<v Speaker 2>a criminal record but was now a productive member of.

0:29:59.881 --> 0:30:04.521
<v Speaker 2>Society charles told The Juno empire during that, interview QUOTE

0:30:05.201 --> 0:30:07.521
<v Speaker 2>i come in and started getting the riff raph, out

0:30:07.761 --> 0:30:10.441
<v Speaker 2>started getting the thieves and the drugs. OUT i run

0:30:10.481 --> 0:30:12.041
<v Speaker 2>them the hell, off And i'd do it any day

0:30:12.041 --> 0:30:12.441
<v Speaker 2>of the week.

0:30:12.641 --> 0:30:12.721
<v Speaker 4>End.

0:30:12.801 --> 0:30:16.841
<v Speaker 2>Quote so in this, Article charles was described as this

0:30:16.961 --> 0:30:20.041
<v Speaker 2>recovering addict who was kind of running his own alternative

0:30:20.041 --> 0:30:23.601
<v Speaker 2>To narcanon Called. Choices so the idea of the program

0:30:23.721 --> 0:30:25.641
<v Speaker 2>was That charles would get the addicts to do work

0:30:25.641 --> 0:30:28.001
<v Speaker 2>on the crumbling building and they would get free room and.

0:30:28.001 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Board but that good press did not last because the

0:30:32.001 --> 0:30:34.401
<v Speaker 2>city came in and they found a ton of problems without.

0:30:34.401 --> 0:30:37.561
<v Speaker 2>Building there were toxins in the, water exposed, wires and

0:30:37.641 --> 0:30:40.961
<v Speaker 2>apparently no heat or hot. Water they Slapped charles with a,

0:30:41.001 --> 0:30:43.721
<v Speaker 2>fine which he didn't. Pay at some point they condemned the.

0:30:43.801 --> 0:30:47.241
<v Speaker 2>Building the city evacuated, it But charles and his tenants

0:30:47.241 --> 0:30:50.201
<v Speaker 2>refused to. Leave it turned out that he was selling drugs.

0:30:50.201 --> 0:30:53.121
<v Speaker 2>Again at some, point he had relapsed and gone from

0:30:53.161 --> 0:30:56.241
<v Speaker 2>being a program for recovering addicts to a drug. Den

0:30:57.921 --> 0:31:01.161
<v Speaker 2>charles was hit with a string of charges for distributing,

0:31:01.201 --> 0:31:07.201
<v Speaker 2>methamphetamine and then On september twenty, seventh twenty, seventeen his,

0:31:07.281 --> 0:31:11.401
<v Speaker 2>Wife Penny, cotton was found dead in a hotel room In, Morris.

0:31:11.441 --> 0:31:18.641
<v Speaker 2>Alaska When Penny cotton was found, dead she had been

0:31:18.641 --> 0:31:21.641
<v Speaker 2>shot in the. Head her death was ruled a, suicide

0:31:21.801 --> 0:31:24.321
<v Speaker 2>but her family back In arkansas told reporters at The

0:31:24.361 --> 0:31:26.841
<v Speaker 2>Mid south they did not believe That penny would take

0:31:26.841 --> 0:31:30.200
<v Speaker 2>her own. Life the medical examiner did not order an,

0:31:30.201 --> 0:31:33.801
<v Speaker 2>autopsy But penny's family got some photos and they shared

0:31:33.801 --> 0:31:37.961
<v Speaker 2>those photos Of penny's body with local. Media these photos

0:31:38.001 --> 0:31:40.681
<v Speaker 2>apparently Showed penny had been shot in the left side

0:31:40.721 --> 0:31:44.121
<v Speaker 2>of the, head But penny's family pointed out she's right,

0:31:44.161 --> 0:31:48.681
<v Speaker 2>handed so to them that seemed to be. Impossible in twenty,

0:31:48.761 --> 0:31:52.761
<v Speaker 2>Seventeen charles was hit with charges of distributing methamphetamine and

0:31:52.841 --> 0:31:57.001
<v Speaker 2>was arrested by THE. Fbi in twenty, Nineteen Charles Cotton

0:31:57.041 --> 0:32:00.681
<v Speaker 2>junior and his, Son ricky Staple lisk were both sentenced

0:32:00.681 --> 0:32:04.241
<v Speaker 2>for drug. Charges charles got ten years in, Prison ricky got,

0:32:04.241 --> 0:32:07.881
<v Speaker 2>five And charles is in prison. Today there was a

0:32:07.921 --> 0:32:11.481
<v Speaker 2>comment On penny's. Obituary it referred to her as being

0:32:11.561 --> 0:32:14.761
<v Speaker 2>gangster and to her Helping charles with his. Business and

0:32:14.801 --> 0:32:16.601
<v Speaker 2>it was written by someone who had been in that

0:32:16.641 --> 0:32:20.161
<v Speaker 2>building With penny And, charles so Obviously penny knew a

0:32:20.241 --> 0:32:23.041
<v Speaker 2>lot about What charles was getting up. To could this

0:32:23.121 --> 0:32:26.881
<v Speaker 2>have motivated someone connected to him to take her? Life

0:32:27.041 --> 0:32:29.601
<v Speaker 2>Charles Cotton junior may have been involved in other legal,

0:32:29.601 --> 0:32:34.641
<v Speaker 2>activities but what About Christina. Pipkin let's look At Charles

0:32:34.641 --> 0:32:39.921
<v Speaker 2>cotton's connection to The pipkin. Family James pipkin told investigators

0:32:39.921 --> 0:32:42.881
<v Speaker 2>that he was introduced To Charles cotton through his Neighbor Pat,

0:32:42.881 --> 0:32:46.761
<v Speaker 2>moore but that Before christina went, missing he had never

0:32:46.801 --> 0:32:50.481
<v Speaker 2>seen or spoken To charles in his. Life Charles cotton

0:32:50.561 --> 0:32:54.321
<v Speaker 2>said that on the Day christina, disappeared he was fishing

0:32:54.361 --> 0:32:56.281
<v Speaker 2>with a friend of his from around one thirty to

0:32:56.321 --> 0:32:59.281
<v Speaker 2>five thirty at an area Called Bird eye Near Cherry,

0:32:59.361 --> 0:33:02.200
<v Speaker 2>valley a small town a few miles From Hickory. Ridge

0:33:02.721 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Apparently charles did stop by The bearcat grocery store at

0:33:05.961 --> 0:33:08.841
<v Speaker 2>some point On. Saturday, now he said he didn't remember doing,

0:33:08.841 --> 0:33:11.321
<v Speaker 2>that but a friend of his saw him there and

0:33:11.441 --> 0:33:15.121
<v Speaker 2>he mentions that in his discussion with, investigators he said

0:33:15.121 --> 0:33:17.921
<v Speaker 2>that after he was finished, fishing he went home and

0:33:17.961 --> 0:33:20.281
<v Speaker 2>WATCHED tv with his, Wife, rebecca and the rest of his.

0:33:20.321 --> 0:33:24.081
<v Speaker 2>Family at around ten, thirty he, said a friend of his,

0:33:24.161 --> 0:33:26.721
<v Speaker 2>Name Neil, long came by and asked if anyone had

0:33:26.721 --> 0:33:30.081
<v Speaker 2>Seen Christina. Pipkin that's when he said he found Out

0:33:30.121 --> 0:33:33.321
<v Speaker 2>christine was. Missing charles said at that point he went

0:33:33.361 --> 0:33:36.321
<v Speaker 2>out and borrowed a friend's three wheeler and started searching for.

0:33:36.321 --> 0:33:39.921
<v Speaker 2>Her by the, Way charles drove a seventy four light

0:33:40.001 --> 0:33:42.521
<v Speaker 2>Blue Dodge charger at the, time yet another blue.

0:33:42.521 --> 0:33:44.401
<v Speaker 3>CAR i have.

0:33:44.441 --> 0:33:47.721
<v Speaker 2>Questions About Charles, cotton mainly because reading through this case,

0:33:47.761 --> 0:33:50.401
<v Speaker 2>file it seems like he was inserting himself into the

0:33:50.481 --> 0:33:54.801
<v Speaker 2>investigation a. Lot we know From James pipkin's statement That

0:33:54.881 --> 0:33:57.761
<v Speaker 2>charles was very involved in the search For. Christina he

0:33:57.841 --> 0:34:02.401
<v Speaker 2>kept looking constantly until she was. Found, Apparently charles even

0:34:02.441 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>borrowed two hundred and twenty five dollars From James. Pipkin

0:34:05.801 --> 0:34:07.841
<v Speaker 2>he claimed he had to pay a fine because he

0:34:07.881 --> 0:34:09.401
<v Speaker 2>hadn't had time to go pay. It he had been

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:13.081
<v Speaker 2>out looking For christina and missed his. Chance So James

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:14.960
<v Speaker 2>pipkin felt sorry for him and gave him the, money,

0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:18.241
<v Speaker 2>which of Course James pipkin never got. Back, now this

0:34:18.281 --> 0:34:21.361
<v Speaker 2>could have been totally. Innocuous this was a big. Story

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:24.361
<v Speaker 2>this is a local. Girl but The pipkin family had

0:34:24.401 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 2>only lived In Hickory ridge for about four months at that.

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Point Charles cotton and some other people seemed to be

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:34.160
<v Speaker 2>getting very close to the family in that. TIME i

0:34:34.241 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 2>wondered about, this And amy AND i made a few more.

0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:40.841
<v Speaker 2>Stops we were looking for old newspapers and we found

0:34:40.841 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 2>one from the week When christina's body was. Found we

0:34:44.121 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 2>were shocked when we Saw christina's obituary and there was

0:34:47.121 --> 0:34:48.081
<v Speaker 2>a detail.

0:34:47.761 --> 0:34:50.281
<v Speaker 3>That had not been online the names of.

0:34:50.361 --> 0:34:55.601
<v Speaker 2>Pallbearers and one of those pallbearers At christina's funeral Was Charles.

0:34:55.641 --> 0:35:00.681
<v Speaker 2>Cotton this seems very odd to. Me, again could be totally,

0:35:00.721 --> 0:35:03.801
<v Speaker 2>innocent could be just someone doing a kindness for a.

0:35:03.801 --> 0:35:06.641
<v Speaker 2>Neighbor but why would someone who didn't Know james at

0:35:06.641 --> 0:35:09.281
<v Speaker 2>all suddenly be super involved in the, search then borrow

0:35:09.361 --> 0:35:12.041
<v Speaker 2>money From, james and then show up as a. Pallbearer,

0:35:13.721 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 2>again though that's all, circumstantial we have to go back

0:35:17.041 --> 0:35:19.721
<v Speaker 2>to the place and time Where christina was last seen

0:35:20.601 --> 0:35:22.960
<v Speaker 2>in and around the Bear Cat grocery store in The

0:35:23.001 --> 0:35:28.161
<v Speaker 2>bank parking. Lot even though there are a lot of disparate,

0:35:28.241 --> 0:35:31.440
<v Speaker 2>reports actually what we're finding out is That christina went

0:35:31.481 --> 0:35:34.761
<v Speaker 2>missing in a pretty small window of, time and we

0:35:34.841 --> 0:35:37.041
<v Speaker 2>see something else in the case file that could potentially

0:35:37.081 --> 0:35:40.761
<v Speaker 2>help police talk to the four people who were working

0:35:40.801 --> 0:35:44.201
<v Speaker 2>inside the Bear Cat grocery store that. Day, now three

0:35:44.201 --> 0:35:46.921
<v Speaker 2>of the employees that either left or were otherwise occupied

0:35:47.001 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 2>When christina was, around but one, person the, cashier got

0:35:51.121 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 2>a very good look at a, stranger someone who came

0:35:54.121 --> 0:35:57.521
<v Speaker 2>into the store at around the same time As christina was,

0:35:57.561 --> 0:36:01.841
<v Speaker 2>there someone who she said no one in the store.

0:36:01.881 --> 0:36:05.841
<v Speaker 2>RECOGNIZED i wanted to find this cashier because in the

0:36:05.921 --> 0:36:09.241
<v Speaker 2>whole case, file she was the only one who had

0:36:09.281 --> 0:36:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a definite and good description of a potential, suspect who

0:36:13.001 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 2>had been close to the unknown stranger and actually seen

0:36:16.401 --> 0:36:19.761
<v Speaker 2>a detailed view of their. FACE i will not say

0:36:19.801 --> 0:36:21.761
<v Speaker 2>exactly how we did, it AND i won't use her

0:36:21.841 --> 0:36:24.361
<v Speaker 2>name BECAUSE i know that this person is very. Nervous

0:36:25.081 --> 0:36:29.520
<v Speaker 2>but we found, her And i'm putting this information out

0:36:29.561 --> 0:36:33.281
<v Speaker 2>there because number, one this case file is. Public these

0:36:33.361 --> 0:36:36.641
<v Speaker 2>names are part of the public record and, also most,

0:36:36.641 --> 0:36:39.601
<v Speaker 2>IMPORTANTLY i believe this information is critical to solving this.

0:36:39.721 --> 0:36:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Case we asked the cashier about what she had seen

0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:47.401
<v Speaker 2>that day before we showed her her police statement by the,

0:36:47.401 --> 0:36:51.801
<v Speaker 2>way which she'd never. Seen in her, statement the cashier

0:36:51.841 --> 0:36:54.121
<v Speaker 2>said she was working at The bearcat grocery store On,

0:36:54.201 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Saturday may, fourth nineteen ninety. One she, said at about

0:36:57.721 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>five forty five, pm an, individual a, stranger came in

0:37:02.041 --> 0:37:05.440
<v Speaker 2>and bought some. Cigarettes in her statement to, police the

0:37:05.561 --> 0:37:08.761
<v Speaker 2>officer who interviewed the cashier noted she said that the

0:37:08.801 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 2>stranger drove a mid or late seventies Model oldsmobile four

0:37:12.641 --> 0:37:15.921
<v Speaker 2>door and it looked blue gray in. Color in a,

0:37:16.001 --> 0:37:19.361
<v Speaker 2>statement she, said the stranger pulled in heading. North the

0:37:19.361 --> 0:37:22.561
<v Speaker 2>statement reads, quote she saw him on the sidewalk looking

0:37:22.601 --> 0:37:24.681
<v Speaker 2>north and south and making A u turn and went

0:37:24.721 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 2>south end. Quote the statement described the stranger as a white,

0:37:28.521 --> 0:37:31.161
<v Speaker 2>male mid, thirties five foot nine and around one hundred

0:37:31.161 --> 0:37:34.561
<v Speaker 2>and forty five, pounds hair dark, brown almost reddish in,

0:37:34.561 --> 0:37:39.281
<v Speaker 2>color clean, hair almost shoulder, length not, curly almost. Straight

0:37:40.001 --> 0:37:42.520
<v Speaker 2>she further stated he had a mustache and that his

0:37:42.601 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>hair was cupped around as, face which was. Thin she

0:37:46.081 --> 0:37:48.881
<v Speaker 2>said he wasn't wearing glasses or a. Hat he had

0:37:48.921 --> 0:37:51.681
<v Speaker 2>on older jeans and Bell crow type tennis shoes with

0:37:51.761 --> 0:37:54.401
<v Speaker 2>a GRAY t shirt underneath an older shirt that was short.

0:37:54.401 --> 0:37:59.001
<v Speaker 2>Sleeved she said no tattoos were. Visible in her, statement

0:37:59.041 --> 0:38:01.480
<v Speaker 2>she said the, stranger who was white but had tan,

0:38:01.601 --> 0:38:05.881
<v Speaker 2>skin looked Like Richard, gear that he bought cigarettes and,

0:38:05.921 --> 0:38:09.601
<v Speaker 2>left and that he stared at. Her the police report

0:38:09.721 --> 0:38:12.321
<v Speaker 2>was very, brief but when we talked to the, cashier

0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:14.560
<v Speaker 2>she gave us a lot of details that were not

0:38:14.601 --> 0:38:18.201
<v Speaker 2>in the police. Report, again it's important to note that

0:38:18.281 --> 0:38:21.201
<v Speaker 2>we asked her about her memories before we showed her

0:38:21.521 --> 0:38:21.921
<v Speaker 2>her own.

0:38:21.921 --> 0:38:24.721
<v Speaker 3>Statement most of.

0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 2>The police statement match which she told, us but there

0:38:27.121 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 2>were some very important. Differences first of, all she said

0:38:31.241 --> 0:38:33.161
<v Speaker 2>she got a very good look at the stranger's, car

0:38:33.281 --> 0:38:36.401
<v Speaker 2>and she emphatically said it was brown or tan in,

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.361
<v Speaker 2>color not. Blue, also when you read the police, report

0:38:39.401 --> 0:38:41.321
<v Speaker 2>it kind of makes it sound like the stranger was

0:38:41.361 --> 0:38:44.921
<v Speaker 2>standing on the. Sidewalk she clarified what she. Meant she

0:38:45.041 --> 0:38:47.361
<v Speaker 2>said he pulled his car all the way up on the.

0:38:47.401 --> 0:38:50.721
<v Speaker 2>Sidewalk in, fact he pulled it so far up that

0:38:50.801 --> 0:38:52.601
<v Speaker 2>he had to get out on the passenger, side and

0:38:52.641 --> 0:38:54.761
<v Speaker 2>she remembers looking out the window at that car because

0:38:54.761 --> 0:38:58.081
<v Speaker 2>that was. Annoying she described the car as, dirty but

0:38:58.241 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 2>definitely brown or. Tan and she clarified when she said

0:39:01.161 --> 0:39:04.281
<v Speaker 2>the stranger looked Like Richard, gear she was really talking

0:39:04.281 --> 0:39:06.401
<v Speaker 2>about the distinctive nose shape and.

0:39:06.521 --> 0:39:07.881
<v Speaker 1>Eyes she.

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:10.601
<v Speaker 2>Said the stranger walked into the store and Bought marlbora

0:39:10.681 --> 0:39:13.801
<v Speaker 2>reds in the hard. Pack then he asked if she

0:39:13.841 --> 0:39:16.601
<v Speaker 2>had some. Matches she, said, yes, sir we, do and

0:39:16.681 --> 0:39:19.281
<v Speaker 2>gave him some of the freebie. Matches then he, left

0:39:19.841 --> 0:39:21.801
<v Speaker 2>and because he had parked so close to the building

0:39:21.881 --> 0:39:23.960
<v Speaker 2>up on that, sidewalk he had to get in through

0:39:24.041 --> 0:39:25.921
<v Speaker 2>the passenger side of the car and shift over to

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the driver's. Side she said he was. Alone he drove

0:39:29.041 --> 0:39:35.001
<v Speaker 2>away and she never saw him. Again the next page

0:39:35.041 --> 0:39:38.321
<v Speaker 2>after the cashier's statement in the case file is a

0:39:38.401 --> 0:39:41.040
<v Speaker 2>page that explains that a sketch artist met with. Her

0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:44.040
<v Speaker 2>they developed a composite, photo and that the comp leaded

0:39:44.121 --> 0:39:47.201
<v Speaker 2>composite would be made part of the case. File but

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:50.841
<v Speaker 2>the photo copy of the composite drawing is not there

0:39:52.001 --> 0:39:52.841
<v Speaker 2>as far AS i can.

0:39:52.881 --> 0:39:53.801
<v Speaker 3>TELL i don't know if the.

0:39:53.721 --> 0:39:56.841
<v Speaker 2>Police just aren't including, it or if it's not in

0:39:56.881 --> 0:40:00.321
<v Speaker 2>the case file at all. ANYMORE i asked the cashier about,

0:40:00.321 --> 0:40:04.801
<v Speaker 2>it and she remembered that image very. Clearly she said

0:40:04.841 --> 0:40:06.960
<v Speaker 2>she might still have a copy and said she would

0:40:07.001 --> 0:40:10.361
<v Speaker 2>go home to look in her. Safe then she texted

0:40:10.401 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 2>me and said she found. It she had the original composite.

0:40:14.041 --> 0:40:17.001
<v Speaker 2>Photo it had been sitting in her safe for over thirty.

0:40:17.081 --> 0:40:20.921
<v Speaker 2>Years we showed her some pictures of the people who

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:24.361
<v Speaker 2>were mentioned by police back in the, day Including Charles,

0:40:24.440 --> 0:40:27.721
<v Speaker 2>cotton but she says that was not the stranger she waited.

0:40:27.721 --> 0:40:32.281
<v Speaker 2>On Then amy shows her an old picture Of Robbie,

0:40:32.281 --> 0:40:39.721
<v Speaker 2>tubbs her father in. Law the cashier, blinked looked, shocked and,

0:40:39.841 --> 0:40:41.080
<v Speaker 2>said who is?

0:40:41.121 --> 0:40:42.361
<v Speaker 3>This how did you get?

0:40:42.361 --> 0:40:45.601
<v Speaker 2>This we asked her if she believed that was the

0:40:45.601 --> 0:40:49.521
<v Speaker 2>man she saw in the Bear cat that. Day, later

0:40:49.681 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>we texted her a couple more pictures from that. Era

0:40:53.321 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 2>she texted me, BACK i got cold. CHILLS i think

0:40:57.161 --> 0:40:58.881
<v Speaker 2>this is the man who was in the store that.

0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:04.281
<v Speaker 2>DAY i know that IDs are not definitive proof of.

0:41:04.321 --> 0:41:09.681
<v Speaker 2>Anything often people are, wrong and even If Robbie tubbs

0:41:09.801 --> 0:41:12.121
<v Speaker 2>was in town that, day that does not mean he

0:41:12.201 --> 0:41:16.200
<v Speaker 2>had anything to do With christina's. Death BUT i do

0:41:16.281 --> 0:41:19.561
<v Speaker 2>find it interesting that the description of the car was

0:41:19.601 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 2>different from the one in the case, file and that

0:41:22.121 --> 0:41:25.401
<v Speaker 2>the cashier seems so haunted by looking at the image

0:41:25.401 --> 0:41:28.201
<v Speaker 2>Of Robbie tubbs next to that drawing she has had

0:41:28.201 --> 0:41:31.721
<v Speaker 2>in her safe for the past thirty. YEARS i know

0:41:32.281 --> 0:41:35.801
<v Speaker 2>positive ideas are not definitive, proof but it means we

0:41:35.881 --> 0:41:41.001
<v Speaker 2>need to keep. Digging I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen

0:41:41.041 --> 0:41:45.601
<v Speaker 2>Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a production

0:41:45.641 --> 0:41:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and

0:41:48.521 --> 0:41:51.681
<v Speaker 2>narrated by, Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. Watts

0:41:52.801 --> 0:41:56.321
<v Speaker 2>music contributed By ben So, lee executive producers Of Virginia,

0:41:56.361 --> 0:41:57.961
<v Speaker 2>Prescott Brandon barr And Helsei.

0:41:58.041 --> 0:42:00.440
<v Speaker 3>Crowley if you have a case you'd like.

0:42:00.481 --> 0:42:02.641
<v Speaker 2>Me and my team to look, into you can reach

0:42:02.681 --> 0:42:04.921
<v Speaker 2>out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at

0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:08.560
<v Speaker 2>six seven eight seven four four six one four. Five

0:42:09.121 --> 0:42:12.401
<v Speaker 2>that's six seven eight seven four four six' one.

0:42:12.481 --> 0:42:14.641
<v Speaker 3>Four five please.

0:42:14.321 --> 0:42:17.161
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