Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine year old Christina
Speaker 2: Pipkin was selling jewelry door to door for a school
Speaker 2: fundraiser in her hometown of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was
Speaker 2: supposed to be home before dark, but she never made
Speaker 2: it back. Her parents, Frida and James, frantically looked for her.
Speaker 2: They called friends and volunteers and scoured the area, but
Speaker 2: found no signs of Christina. This little girl seemed to
Speaker 2: have vanished into thin air. They got an answer, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't the answer. They were hoping for. Three days later,
Speaker 2: on May seventh, nineteen ninety one, Christina Pipkin's body was
Speaker 2: found floating in cow Lake Ditch. Almost twenty three years later,
Speaker 2: this case is still unsolved.
Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend.
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us
Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight
Speaker 2: seven four four six' one four or. Five this Is
Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder. Line by the. Way as you can,
Speaker 2: Tell i've been talking to a lot of people this,
Speaker 2: week So i've lost my voice a little.
Speaker 3: Bit please excuse.
Speaker 2: Me i'm In Hickory ridge for a meeting With Amy, tubbs,
Speaker 2: who AS i mentioned in the last, episode is married
Speaker 2: To Robbie Tubbs. Junior she's the daughter in law Of
Speaker 2: Robbie Tubbs. Sr who is a suspect In christina's. Murder
Speaker 2: back in the, Nineties robbie was arrested and he was
Speaker 2: charged With Christina pippkins's, murder but as we said in
Speaker 2: the last, episode he was released after there was.
Speaker 3: A mistake with THE dna.
Speaker 2: Testing the Prosecutor Fletcher long admitted that instead of testing
Speaker 2: hair from a vehicle once owned By Robbie. Tubbs law
Speaker 2: enforcement tested the wrong, hair and then when they tried
Speaker 2: to correct that, error they said that there wasn't ENOUGH
Speaker 2: dna on the hair that was Inside Robbie tubb's car to.
Speaker 2: TEST i still wonder is that hair still around and
Speaker 2: with today's, technology could it be.
Speaker 3: Retested that's just.
Speaker 2: One of the many questions we're going to be asking
Speaker 2: as we investigate this. Case amy said that since she
Speaker 2: started dating her, husband they've never really had contact with his,
Speaker 2: Father Robbie. Senor she said she's heard That Robbie senior
Speaker 2: has a criminal background and that, he's in her, words
Speaker 2: and not a great. Guy but as she pointed, out
Speaker 2: that's quite a different thing from being a child. Killer
Speaker 2: amy wanted to know If Robbie senior was capable of
Speaker 2: committing this horrific. Crime she is, clear if he is
Speaker 2: the right, person he needs to be, charged and if
Speaker 2: it's someone, else we need to figure out who they
Speaker 2: are and where they. Are either way charging a suspect
Speaker 2: and then having those charges fall apart and seeing the
Speaker 2: person you believe is guilty. Released As i've said for
Speaker 2: a long, time this should not be a stopping.
Speaker 3: Point for law.
Speaker 2: Enforcement either you need to get more evidence on your,
Speaker 2: suspect or you need to find the right person to.
Speaker 2: Charge amy and our meeting In Hickory ridge in the.
Speaker 2: Morning there's really only one place in, town the only
Speaker 2: coffee shop for Miles cafe forty. Nine how do you
Speaker 2: get around the not being An Arkansas.
Speaker 3: So amy AND i are catching. Up we've had some exciting.
Speaker 2: Developments both of our FOYER a quests were, granted so
Speaker 2: we now have access to the Entire Christina pipkin case,
Speaker 2: file all two hundred pages of.
Speaker 3: It that's the good.
Speaker 2: News the bad news is that there is no audio
Speaker 2: of the original interviews and there are no. Photos The
Speaker 2: Arkansas State police have also not released the autopsy. Report
Speaker 2: it's not part of the case. File there are also
Speaker 2: almost no, transcripts so all we have of the police
Speaker 2: interviews are these short type. Pages presumably they were taken
Speaker 2: from notes and then. Transcribed SINCE i have a lot
Speaker 2: of experience with case, FILES i want to verify everything.
Speaker 2: OURSELVES i want to get in touch with everyone we
Speaker 2: can who isn't dead and is willing to. Talk we've
Speaker 2: come here To East arkansas to see if there is
Speaker 2: anyone around who was there on the Day christina went.
Speaker 2: Missing this could be our only hope for getting new.
Speaker 3: Information i'll take one.
Speaker 2: More amy Brought, denise who describes her self as an
Speaker 2: amateur sleuth who's been working on the case for a long.
Speaker 2: Time denise has also brought a friend who says she
Speaker 2: just wants to be in the. Background she spends her
Speaker 2: time As denise's, sidekick helping her find addresses and get
Speaker 2: into contact with. People after we get our, coffee we
Speaker 2: start talking to some other people in the.
Speaker 3: Cafe was that the little girl she's found it in
Speaker 3: a ditch right out?
Speaker 4: Here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, YEAH i.
Speaker 3: THINK i mean this was this happened BEFORE i was.
Speaker 2: Born and then WHAT i heard was that her stepdad
Speaker 2: had drowned. Her and she was. Now she said that
Speaker 2: she Heard christina's stepdad had drowned. Her that was one
Speaker 2: of the Rumors we've been hearing a lot that someone
Speaker 2: In christina's family did this to her and then there
Speaker 2: was a cover. Up some people have Blamed christina's, mom
Speaker 2: others her. Dad some people have even mentioned a, stepdad
Speaker 2: even though that would be impossible Since christina didn't even
Speaker 2: have a.
Speaker 3: Stepfather But i've heard that Story i've heard that story.
Speaker 1: Too, YEAH i heard that story, Too but, no she
Speaker 1: didn't have.
Speaker 2: A stepdad That this is just one of many versions
Speaker 2: of rumors that have been flying around town Since christina went.
Speaker 2: Missing the woman we talked to brought her mom, over
Speaker 2: and her mom knew a. Lot she said she was
Speaker 2: in high school at the time and was part of
Speaker 2: the search.
Speaker 3: PARTY i JUST i remember searching the.
Speaker 4: Town it's heard that she didn't gone door to door
Speaker 4: selling something for, school just we searched for days and
Speaker 4: days and days and.
Speaker 2: Days she mentioned another rumor That i've heard a lot
Speaker 2: of that the reason she believed someone In christina's family
Speaker 2: did this was because apparently no water from the ditch
Speaker 2: Where christina's body was found was found in her. Lungs
Speaker 2: she had, chlorinated so it had to have come from
Speaker 2: a bathtub or something there about this led them to
Speaker 2: believe she had been drowned in a bathtub and then
Speaker 2: taken out there and.
Speaker 3: Dumped this is one of those rumors we.
Speaker 2: Can shut down right, now because even though we didn't
Speaker 2: get the actual autopsy report as part of the case,
Speaker 2: file we did get some documents that refer to interviews
Speaker 2: with a medical examiner and to forensic testing that was
Speaker 2: done On christina's. Body the results of those tests showed
Speaker 2: that the water and mud In Christina pipkins's lungs matched
Speaker 2: the water From Cow Lake, ditch the body of water
Speaker 2: where she was. Found we also learned from the case
Speaker 2: file that Fawm Me malick did the autopsy because one
Speaker 2: of the investigators put a report.
Speaker 3: In the case.
Speaker 2: File he talked about meeting with Doctor malik to discuss
Speaker 2: some of his. Conclusions i've talked a lot about Doctor
Speaker 2: malik's controversial history on previous. Podcasts he was the medical
Speaker 2: examiner In arkansas who was found to have botched hundreds
Speaker 2: of autopsies back in the eighties and. Nineties in, fact
Speaker 2: the time period when he Did christina's autopsy was not
Speaker 2: long before he was forced into. Retirement but for the,
Speaker 2: moment until we're proven, otherwise we're going to take the
Speaker 2: information that we get about the autopsy at face. Value
Speaker 2: Doctor malik indicated there was obvious. Decomposition we knew she
Speaker 2: had been in the water for three. Days he also
Speaker 2: said there were no signs of. Strangulation he said he
Speaker 2: HAD x Rayed christina's body from the outside and from the.
Speaker 2: Inside he said he could find no stab, wounds no
Speaker 2: obvious cuts of, bruises and there was water and mud
Speaker 2: found In christina's, stomach water that matched the water from the.
Speaker 2: Ditch Doctor malik also found pickles and carrots In christina's.
Speaker 2: Stomach we know That christina ate pot pie for lunch that.
Speaker 2: Day we also know That Elsie, lyles her next door
Speaker 2: neighbor and sometimes a, babysitter gave her a pickle as
Speaker 2: a snack at around four. Pm the report, reads Quote
Speaker 2: Doctor malik was emphatic he could find no other cause
Speaker 2: of death other than drowning end. Quote but it also
Speaker 2: says when given the supposition that one could smother an
Speaker 2: individual to the point of unconscious and then throw that
Speaker 2: person into the, river Doctor mallek could make no comment regarding,
Speaker 2: this but said that this was the. Possibility in other,
Speaker 2: words we can't tell from the limited information we have
Speaker 2: Whether christina fell into the water on her own or
Speaker 2: was thrown in, there or whether she was conscious at the,
Speaker 2: time but we can rule out the rumor That christina
Speaker 2: was drowned at home and then taken out to that
Speaker 2: site where she was dumped by the Way christina's, Father,
Speaker 2: james and everyone else in her family cooperated completely with.
Speaker 2: Investigators James pipkin took and passed a light detector test
Speaker 2: that's part of the case, file and he was cleared
Speaker 2: by law. ENFORCEMENT i cannot imagine the pain of losing
Speaker 2: a child and then after that having people in town
Speaker 2: either think that you were involved somehow or that you
Speaker 2: were hiding. Something Plus james had to go through the
Speaker 2: pain of being asked about his marital problems issues he
Speaker 2: had had previously with his Wife. Frieda that must have
Speaker 2: also been a. Nightmare but, unfortunately when law enforcement is
Speaker 2: looking through someone's pattern of, life they have to know
Speaker 2: the history for, you the family. Members it's all part
Speaker 2: of solving the. Puzzle there have been some other rumors
Speaker 2: in this town that refuse to, die so we need
Speaker 2: to check them out so we can figure out what
Speaker 2: to investigate further and what else to rule. Out we
Speaker 2: went to the place Where christina and her family lived
Speaker 2: On Doughty. Street, okay so this was The bearcat right
Speaker 2: where apparently everyone in town went that.
Speaker 3: Day there's the. Bank the alley still runs behind the,
Speaker 3: bank so this whole thing is. Tiny, Yeah and there's
Speaker 3: the tracks right. There, yeah and then there's the little park.
Speaker 3: School all that is back.
Speaker 4: There christina lives this, House, no that, house this, lot
Speaker 4: this lot where there is no more.
Speaker 2: House there's no house there, now just a, vacant overgrown
Speaker 2: lot with a home next.
Speaker 3: Door we have a couple of goals here.
Speaker 2: Today first of, all we want to take a look
Speaker 2: at the place Where christina's house was On Doty street
Speaker 2: and the place where she was last, seen The bearcat grocery.
Speaker 2: Store it's not there anymore, now it's a. Tireshup denise
Speaker 2: is talking me through the streets In christina's.
Speaker 4: Neighborhood so that was her, house and then the house
Speaker 4: they were saying that backed up on her yard would
Speaker 4: have been that one over.
Speaker 3: There, maybe, WELL i think that's something. Different or is
Speaker 3: it destroyed? Now maybe? Yet see how these so Lass
Speaker 3: that's What i'm, thinking and those houses might have been the.
Speaker 2: Same but we see from the case file that police
Speaker 2: talked To christina's Mom frida and Father. James they discussed
Speaker 2: what they did on the Day christina disappeared in a
Speaker 2: lot more detail Than i've ever. Seen On, Saturday may,
Speaker 2: Fourth frida said it started out as an Ordinary. Saturday
Speaker 2: frida went to the post office that morning between nine
Speaker 2: thirty and ten. Am when she got, Home christina and
Speaker 2: her Brother adam were watching. Cartoons frida said she had
Speaker 2: some coffee with her Neighbor Pat.
Speaker 3: Moore Then pat.
Speaker 2: Left after a few, Minutes frida started cleaning and doing
Speaker 2: laundry Because saturday was wash. Day at around eleven thirty or,
Speaker 2: Twelve freda warmed up some pop. Pies they ate the pop,
Speaker 2: pies and they had iced tea to. Drink after, lunch
Speaker 2: she was hanging clothes out on the line When james
Speaker 2: came out and showed her a picture of a used
Speaker 2: car he had been looking out in the local. Magazine
Speaker 2: she And james Took christina And adam and they went
Speaker 2: To walmart and Went they bought a few things there
Speaker 2: for the. House then they went To Cherry, valley a
Speaker 2: town about fifteen miles east Of Hickory. Ridge they looked
Speaker 2: at the, car a Blue mustang that was parked out
Speaker 2: in the seller's. Yard they took a quick look at the,
Speaker 2: car asked about the, price and left there around one.
Speaker 2: Pm at some point they stopped At gaskin's grocery store
Speaker 2: In vandaal they bought some pork, rinds and Apparently christina
Speaker 2: had a few of the pork skins on the ride,
Speaker 2: home but she didn't really eat a lot of them
Speaker 2: because apparently they were a little bit pink and she
Speaker 2: didn't love the. Taste the family got back, Home adam
Speaker 2: And james were hanging out WATCHING. Tv christina played with
Speaker 2: one Of frida's old makeup compacts that she had found lying.
Speaker 2: Around james was programming THE vcr to tape the Movie
Speaker 2: The hunt For Red october that was airing that. Night
Speaker 2: at some, Point christina asked her parents if she could
Speaker 2: go door to door to sell her. Jewelry she headed
Speaker 2: out at around four thirty or FIVE. Pm NOW i
Speaker 2: should say that what's in the case file differs from
Speaker 2: what we've read in the, newspapers because in the newspapers
Speaker 2: it said she asked her, Dad james if she could go.
Speaker 2: Out he said no at, first then said, okay but
Speaker 2: you have to be home before. Dark but in the case,
Speaker 2: File james said he believed That christina had asked her
Speaker 2: mother if she could go sell, jewelry though he does
Speaker 2: mention the kids knew not to cross over to the
Speaker 2: other side of the railroad. Tracks at around seven or
Speaker 2: seven thirty, Pm frida realized she still needed a few
Speaker 2: things from the. Store she ran up to The Bearcat,
Speaker 2: grocery a couple of blocks from their. House the Bear
Speaker 2: cat was next to the only bank in, Town Cross County.
Speaker 3: Bank the two businesses shared a parking.
Speaker 2: Lot at the, Store frida bought onions and, gravy and
Speaker 2: potatoes and. Mushrooms she said she was only in the
Speaker 2: for around five minutes and then she went right back.
Speaker 2: Home she started to make dinner to fry. Potatoes at some,
Speaker 2: point it started to get, dark and that's When christina's
Speaker 2: parents realized that she hadn't made it. Home frida Sent
Speaker 2: adam out to look for his. Sister pretty, quickly he
Speaker 2: came back and said he couldn't find. Her that's When frieda, said,
Speaker 2: QUOTE i had a gut feeling something was not. Right
Speaker 2: this is a mother's. CONCERN i Sent adam out to Find.
Speaker 2: Christina when he came back and said he couldn't find,
Speaker 2: HER i knew something was wrong with my baby.
Speaker 3: Girl end.
Speaker 2: Quote james And frieda went around the. Neighborhood they went
Speaker 2: to some apartments nearby Where christina had been selling her
Speaker 2: Jewelry in the days before she went, Missing they went
Speaker 2: to The bearcat store and then they went back home
Speaker 2: in Case christina came. Back they called the police to
Speaker 2: report her missing and the search. Started james said in
Speaker 2: his statement Quote after the police, came we started a
Speaker 2: house to house. SEARCH i went to several houses and
Speaker 2: went back home to see if anyone had found. Her
Speaker 2: after my brother in law got to the, house we
Speaker 2: went out. SEARCHING i kept hoping she would show. UP
Speaker 2: i did not believe this was. HAPPENING i wondered what
Speaker 2: happened to? Her where could she? Be as we drove
Speaker 2: around looking for, HER i was hoping to see her.
Speaker 2: WALKING i, thought if she could just get, AWAY i
Speaker 2: might see her on the. Road On sunday we went
Speaker 2: searching some. MORE i didn't eat BECAUSE i couldn't, eat
Speaker 2: not knowing if my baby girl had anything to. EAT
Speaker 2: i was wondering how she was being. Treated was she?
Speaker 3: Cold was she?
Speaker 2: HUNGRY i kept hoping that whoever took her would let her.
Speaker 2: GO i kept looking up the street hoping THAT i
Speaker 2: would see. HER i kept believing we would find her.
Speaker 2: Alive even if she was, hurt we could get help for,
Speaker 2: That but when they told me they had found her
Speaker 2: and she was, dead how do you describe how do
Speaker 2: you feel when you find out your daughter is?
Speaker 3: Dead, angry, hurt. CONFUSED i don't know how to describe.
Speaker 3: It end. QUOTE i don't know how.
Speaker 2: Many of you have ever seen the movie Rosham, on
Speaker 2: but it's SOMETHING i think about a lot When i'm
Speaker 2: doing in a bit. Instigation, now in that, movie there
Speaker 2: are three different people and they're telling the story of
Speaker 2: an assault and a. Murder each of them witness this
Speaker 2: from their point of. View everyone saw exactly the same,
Speaker 2: thing but each person gives you a different piece of the.
Speaker 2: Story each person has another piece of the. Puzzle it's
Speaker 2: the same thing with a murder. Investigation we have all
Speaker 2: these people who are present at The bearcat convenience store
Speaker 2: and the bank that. Afternoon each of them saw a
Speaker 2: small slice Of christina's, day and we really need to
Speaker 2: put all those multiple versions. Together, now, admittedly there's a separate,
Speaker 2: problem which is that memory itself changes over, time even
Speaker 2: if you have great, recall but we'll get to that. Later,
Speaker 2: first we need to get as many points of view
Speaker 2: as possible to try and fill in some of these
Speaker 2: holes on the. Timeline so let's go back To may,
Speaker 2: fourth nineteen ninety. One christina is. Missing over the next few,
Speaker 2: days police started talking to, people and as happens often
Speaker 2: in small, town a few names got thrown. Around we
Speaker 2: noticed something else in the case file that during this,
Speaker 2: time quite a few people also mentioned they had seen
Speaker 2: a blue car with a man driving, it one that
Speaker 2: was in the bank parking lot and hanging around town
Speaker 2: in general around the time When christina went. Missing that
Speaker 2: what we were about to find out was that people
Speaker 2: had a lot of different descriptions of exactly what that
Speaker 2: man and that vehicle looked. Like we measured the distance
Speaker 2: from Where christina was last seen to where she was.
Speaker 2: Found it was around three and a half, miles SO
Speaker 2: i think police were. Right she was almost certainly driven
Speaker 2: to that. Location so who drove her? There in a
Speaker 2: town this, small it seems like somebody would have to
Speaker 2: have seen. Something we need to find that, Car we
Speaker 2: need to explore all of those, suspects figure out exactly
Speaker 2: where everyone was on the Day christina went, missing and
Speaker 2: also find out where this rumor about a blu carr.
Speaker 2: Started one person the police talked to was The long,
Speaker 2: Family they live right By christina's house at two eighty
Speaker 2: Nine Doty. Street Michael, long who was twenty six at the,
Speaker 2: time said that he was home That saturday afternoon at
Speaker 2: around five. Pm he Said christina stopped by the house
Speaker 2: looking for his little, sister who was Ten christina's, age
Speaker 2: presumably to go door to door jewelry selling with. Her
Speaker 2: his sister wasn't, home So christina. Left Michael satti next
Speaker 2: Saw christina walking back south Down Third. Street then he
Speaker 2: saw her turn west On Laurel street toward The bearcat's
Speaker 2: door and the. Bank michael told police that about five
Speaker 2: minutes After christina, left he went outside to check a
Speaker 2: ditch for. Snakes, then he said he walked to The
Speaker 2: bearcat for some. Cigarettes when he came, out he Saw
Speaker 2: christina walking behind the alley At Cross County. Bank at that,
Speaker 2: Point michael said she was headed. North this would have
Speaker 2: been at around five thirty. Pm after, That michael said
Speaker 2: he didn't see her. Again another family that lived next
Speaker 2: to The pipkins were The, Moors pat And. Connie they
Speaker 2: had a blue car registered to, them a nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: Three Ford. Maverick on the Day christina went, missing two
Speaker 2: friends of, Theirs Ricky dawson And james The, seers who
Speaker 2: were eighteen and twenty at the, time came by the
Speaker 2: house at around four. Thirty they were there to pick
Speaker 2: Up ricky's, Girlfriend Jenna algood and her Friend April, jones
Speaker 2: who were hanging out at the. Moorhouse, Ricky, james and
Speaker 2: the two young women left for a night out on
Speaker 2: the town And. Win but before they, Left ricky said
Speaker 2: he remembered Seeing christina outside on her.
Speaker 3: Porch next.
Speaker 2: Door Ricky dawson was driving yet another blue, car his
Speaker 2: mom's Blue camaro with rust on the. Side he said that, He,
Speaker 2: james and the two girls went To win between five
Speaker 2: thirty and six. Thirty he said they didn't come back
Speaker 2: until around. Midnight by that, Time christina was missing and
Speaker 2: a bunch of people were already out looking for. Her
Speaker 2: so at that, point obviously things got pretty. Chaotic it
Speaker 2: Was saturday. Night people were having, barbecues making, plans going on,
Speaker 2: dates the sun was going down and the night was just.
Speaker 2: Starting BUT i want to go back to the timeline
Speaker 2: and mention a couple of other people who told police
Speaker 2: they noticed things that were slightly out of the ordinary Because,
Speaker 2: obviously any event can have huge significance when someone goes.
Speaker 2: Missing On may, seventh police went to The Hickory Ridge
Speaker 2: Elementary school and they interviewed several. Children they asked about
Speaker 2: a stranger that the kids had seen around the time
Speaker 2: When christina, disappeared but their descriptions were completely. Inconsistent the
Speaker 2: police report said there were numerous inconsistencies in the kid's
Speaker 2: stories and so because of, that the officer could not
Speaker 2: follow through on completing a composite. Drawing this doesn't surprise
Speaker 2: me because by the time those kids were, interviewed it
Speaker 2: had been several days and, unfortunately in my, opinion what
Speaker 2: happened probably was that the kids talked to each other
Speaker 2: over the, weekend so their stories took on elements of each.
Speaker 3: Other's this is not.
Speaker 2: Uncommon so seventy two hours of, passed the whole town's
Speaker 2: talking about a, kidnapping and suddenly the mysterious stranger had
Speaker 2: gone from a white man with tan skin to A
Speaker 2: Native american and Quote indian lookalike with high cheek bones
Speaker 2: and black. Hair, now Because christina lived In Cross, county
Speaker 2: but her body was found across the county line In Jackson,
Speaker 2: county law enforcement met and decided That Jackson county would,
Speaker 2: assist but that the jurisdiction would stay In Cross. County
Speaker 2: Jackson county did question some, people mainly guys who were
Speaker 2: arrested for other things like, dwi's but police really seemed
Speaker 2: to have pretty much zero leads and not much to go.
Speaker 2: On there was another, family The. Earls they lived On Fourth,
Speaker 2: street close To christina's. House Kim earles said that On saturday,
Speaker 2: night just after, midnight she saw a young man in
Speaker 2: a blue, car which she described as a late Model
Speaker 2: transam Or. Camaro she said it had one of those
Speaker 2: novelty break lights that glowed around the license plate when
Speaker 2: you put on the. Brakes she said she saw that,
Speaker 2: car which seems like it would be pretty memorable at
Speaker 2: a McDonald's and. Win she said the guy driving it
Speaker 2: was dark complexion with tan, skin medium, bill dark, eyebrows
Speaker 2: and that that person was around six foot. Two other
Speaker 2: people said there was a guy Named James hannah who
Speaker 2: had a car like, that but when police showed a
Speaker 2: picture Of James hannah to the, girls they said they
Speaker 2: Knew James hannah and this was not him driving the.
Speaker 2: Car they described the driver as dirty, looking and said
Speaker 2: that that person was a stranger to. Them kim said
Speaker 2: that she had seen that same, man the one driving
Speaker 2: the blue car with the light up, brakes around town
Speaker 2: for the past few. Months she said that this mystery
Speaker 2: guy had been parked near the bank On. Saturday her
Speaker 2: and her Sister angela said that they believed that this
Speaker 2: person had followed them to the tanning. Bed sharon And
Speaker 2: Ricky holloman had a daughter who was friends With. Christina
Speaker 2: sharon was another person who said she saw a blue
Speaker 2: car that. Day she said it was sportsy looking and
Speaker 2: had primer or rest spots on, it and that it
Speaker 2: was speeding on the side streets Of Hickory ridge On saturday.
Speaker 2: Afternoon she described the driver as clean, shaven with short
Speaker 2: hair and chubby. Cheeks she said that she had seen
Speaker 2: that same car several times a, week going over to
Speaker 2: what she thought was The pipkin. Residence sharon And ricky
Speaker 2: had a, daughter and their daughter was a friend Of.
Speaker 2: Christina's she actually Saw christina on the afternoon that she,
Speaker 2: disappeared and she said she saw her with a young
Speaker 2: boy that had gone to school With. Christina the little
Speaker 2: girl said she didn't know the boy's.
Speaker 3: Name she.
Speaker 2: Said for some, reason the boy would hide behind trees
Speaker 2: And christina seemed, impatient and that when this friend tried
Speaker 2: to talk To christina, finally she, said the boy caught
Speaker 2: up To christina and started walking with, her and they
Speaker 2: went off in the other. Direction christina's friend said the
Speaker 2: last time she Saw, Christina christina was walking south on
Speaker 2: the southbound shoulder Of highway forty, nine in front of
Speaker 2: the Bear Cat, store so between The Bearcat Grocery store.
Speaker 3: And the post.
Speaker 2: Office she said the blue car was Following, christina driving,
Speaker 2: slow and That christina was shaking her head no to
Speaker 2: the person driving the. Car she described it as an
Speaker 2: older blue colored car with some type of brownish rust
Speaker 2: colored stains or rust on the lower portions of the.
Speaker 2: Car the friend said that she rode her bike around
Speaker 2: the bank one more time and that by the time
Speaker 2: she got back to the, road she could not See
Speaker 2: christina or the. Car the little girl didn't know what
Speaker 2: time this, was but her mother said they had only
Speaker 2: gotten back to their house at around seven, pm so
Speaker 2: it would have had to have been a little bit after.
Speaker 2: That if that's, true then this little girl may have
Speaker 2: been the last person in the case for at least
Speaker 2: to have Seen christina. Alive Christina pipkin's math teacher also
Speaker 2: said she Saw christina outside of the Bear cat grocery that,
Speaker 2: afternoon and she said That christina was. Barefoot this seems
Speaker 2: to solve another mystery because remember we mentioned That christina's
Speaker 2: mother said she was wearing white sandals on the day
Speaker 2: she went, missing but her sandals were not found with her.
Speaker 2: Body but it seems Like christina had already ditched her
Speaker 2: sandals because she was walking around that parking lot, Barefoot
Speaker 2: so it seems less likely that her killer took them
Speaker 2: or that they slipped off during some kind of. STRUGGLE
Speaker 2: i still, wonder, though where are the? Sandals but in my,
Speaker 2: mind if she was, barefoot that means it's even less
Speaker 2: likely she would have made that over three mile walk
Speaker 2: out to the area where she was. Found another name
Speaker 2: that was mentioned in the case file early on Was
Speaker 2: Charles Cotton. Junior Charles Cotton junior has a criminal, record
Speaker 2: including charges for leude acts against a. Child, Now Charles
Speaker 2: cotton would later tell a journalist In, Juno, alaska where
Speaker 2: he was, living that that was all, mistake that what
Speaker 2: happened was a child had walked in on him and
Speaker 2: either his wife or girlfriend having sex on a, couch
Speaker 2: that the whole thing was blown out of. Proportion that's
Speaker 2: what a lot of sex offenders, say and the fact
Speaker 2: of the matter Is Charles cotton did have a lengthy
Speaker 2: criminal record at the time When christina went. Missing Charles
Speaker 2: cotton was. Married according to his, Wife Rebecca, cotton who
Speaker 2: was twenty one years old at the, time the couple
Speaker 2: was living a little bit out of, town but we've
Speaker 2: also been told by people close To christina's family That
Speaker 2: Charles cotton was living right next. Door we're still trying
Speaker 2: to figure out his exact location and movements at the.
Speaker 2: Time we do know That Charles cotton was introduced To christina's, Father,
Speaker 2: james by their next door, Neighbor Pat, Moore so as
Speaker 2: far AS i can, Tell Charles cotton did spend some
Speaker 2: time at the. Moorhouse that could potentially be why some
Speaker 2: people believe That charles was living next. Door these guys
Speaker 2: all had completely different physical. Descriptions Robbie tubbs was white
Speaker 2: with tan skin and dark wavy hair that went down
Speaker 2: toward his. Shoulders Charles cotton had blue eyes and blonde.
Speaker 2: Hair we mentioned in the last episode that after hair
Speaker 2: testing and the, trial the charges Against Robbie tubbs were.
Speaker 2: Dropped he walked away a free. Man his last known
Speaker 2: address is In Sulfur, Spring, texas.
Speaker 3: But he's challenging to.
Speaker 2: Find Charles cotton is much easier to. Find he's in
Speaker 2: federal prison In Washington. State After christina's, Death Charles cotton
Speaker 2: got into some more issues with the, law and eventually
Speaker 2: he found. Love in twenty, Eleven charles reconnected with a
Speaker 2: woman Named. Penny they actually grew up together and they
Speaker 2: met while they were both students and went high school
Speaker 2: back in the.
Speaker 3: Day back.
Speaker 2: Then they, dated but they broke up and they didn't
Speaker 2: see each other for. Years this, time, though once they,
Speaker 2: reconnected that relationship got. Serious they got married And penny
Speaker 2: moved With charles To, Juneo, alaska but their fresh start
Speaker 2: did not last. Long In, Juno Charles cotton started managing
Speaker 2: a hotel called The Bergmann. Hotel it was a historic
Speaker 2: structure that had become run down over the. Year in twenty,
Speaker 2: sixteen he took that dilapidated building that had become a
Speaker 2: hangout for people doing drugs and other illegal things and
Speaker 2: said he was going to turn it. Around at one,
Speaker 2: point he actually made local news as someone who had
Speaker 2: a criminal record but was now a productive member of.
Speaker 2: Society charles told The Juno empire during that, interview QUOTE
Speaker 2: i come in and started getting the riff raph, out
Speaker 2: started getting the thieves and the drugs. OUT i run
Speaker 2: them the hell, off And i'd do it any day
Speaker 2: of the week.
Speaker 4: End.
Speaker 2: Quote so in this, Article charles was described as this
Speaker 2: recovering addict who was kind of running his own alternative
Speaker 2: To narcanon Called. Choices so the idea of the program
Speaker 2: was That charles would get the addicts to do work
Speaker 2: on the crumbling building and they would get free room and.
Speaker 2: Board but that good press did not last because the
Speaker 2: city came in and they found a ton of problems without.
Speaker 2: Building there were toxins in the, water exposed, wires and
Speaker 2: apparently no heat or hot. Water they Slapped charles with a,
Speaker 2: fine which he didn't. Pay at some point they condemned the.
Speaker 2: Building the city evacuated, it But charles and his tenants
Speaker 2: refused to. Leave it turned out that he was selling drugs.
Speaker 2: Again at some, point he had relapsed and gone from
Speaker 2: being a program for recovering addicts to a drug. Den
Speaker 2: charles was hit with a string of charges for distributing,
Speaker 2: methamphetamine and then On september twenty, seventh twenty, seventeen his,
Speaker 2: Wife Penny, cotton was found dead in a hotel room In, Morris.
Speaker 2: Alaska When Penny cotton was found, dead she had been
Speaker 2: shot in the. Head her death was ruled a, suicide
Speaker 2: but her family back In arkansas told reporters at The
Speaker 2: Mid south they did not believe That penny would take
Speaker 2: her own. Life the medical examiner did not order an,
Speaker 2: autopsy But penny's family got some photos and they shared
Speaker 2: those photos Of penny's body with local. Media these photos
Speaker 2: apparently Showed penny had been shot in the left side
Speaker 2: of the, head But penny's family pointed out she's right,
Speaker 2: handed so to them that seemed to be. Impossible in twenty,
Speaker 2: Seventeen charles was hit with charges of distributing methamphetamine and
Speaker 2: was arrested by THE. Fbi in twenty, Nineteen Charles Cotton
Speaker 2: junior and his, Son ricky Staple lisk were both sentenced
Speaker 2: for drug. Charges charles got ten years in, Prison ricky got,
Speaker 2: five And charles is in prison. Today there was a
Speaker 2: comment On penny's. Obituary it referred to her as being
Speaker 2: gangster and to her Helping charles with his. Business and
Speaker 2: it was written by someone who had been in that
Speaker 2: building With penny And, charles so Obviously penny knew a
Speaker 2: lot about What charles was getting up. To could this
Speaker 2: have motivated someone connected to him to take her? Life
Speaker 2: Charles Cotton junior may have been involved in other legal,
Speaker 2: activities but what About Christina. Pipkin let's look At Charles
Speaker 2: cotton's connection to The pipkin. Family James pipkin told investigators
Speaker 2: that he was introduced To Charles cotton through his Neighbor Pat,
Speaker 2: moore but that Before christina went, missing he had never
Speaker 2: seen or spoken To charles in his. Life Charles cotton
Speaker 2: said that on the Day christina, disappeared he was fishing
Speaker 2: with a friend of his from around one thirty to
Speaker 2: five thirty at an area Called Bird eye Near Cherry,
Speaker 2: valley a small town a few miles From Hickory. Ridge
Speaker 2: Apparently charles did stop by The bearcat grocery store at
Speaker 2: some point On. Saturday, now he said he didn't remember doing,
Speaker 2: that but a friend of his saw him there and
Speaker 2: he mentions that in his discussion with, investigators he said
Speaker 2: that after he was finished, fishing he went home and
Speaker 2: WATCHED tv with his, Wife, rebecca and the rest of his.
Speaker 2: Family at around ten, thirty he, said a friend of his,
Speaker 2: Name Neil, long came by and asked if anyone had
Speaker 2: Seen Christina. Pipkin that's when he said he found Out
Speaker 2: christine was. Missing charles said at that point he went
Speaker 2: out and borrowed a friend's three wheeler and started searching for.
Speaker 2: Her by the, Way charles drove a seventy four light
Speaker 2: Blue Dodge charger at the, time yet another blue.
Speaker 3: CAR i have.
Speaker 2: Questions About Charles, cotton mainly because reading through this case,
Speaker 2: file it seems like he was inserting himself into the
Speaker 2: investigation a. Lot we know From James pipkin's statement That
Speaker 2: charles was very involved in the search For. Christina he
Speaker 2: kept looking constantly until she was. Found, Apparently charles even
Speaker 2: borrowed two hundred and twenty five dollars From James. Pipkin
Speaker 2: he claimed he had to pay a fine because he
Speaker 2: hadn't had time to go pay. It he had been
Speaker 2: out looking For christina and missed his. Chance So James
Speaker 2: pipkin felt sorry for him and gave him the, money,
Speaker 2: which of Course James pipkin never got. Back, now this
Speaker 2: could have been totally. Innocuous this was a big. Story
Speaker 2: this is a local. Girl but The pipkin family had
Speaker 2: only lived In Hickory ridge for about four months at that.
Speaker 2: Point Charles cotton and some other people seemed to be
Speaker 2: getting very close to the family in that. TIME i
Speaker 2: wondered about, this And amy AND i made a few more.
Speaker 2: Stops we were looking for old newspapers and we found
Speaker 2: one from the week When christina's body was. Found we
Speaker 2: were shocked when we Saw christina's obituary and there was
Speaker 2: a detail.
Speaker 3: That had not been online the names of.
Speaker 2: Pallbearers and one of those pallbearers At christina's funeral Was Charles.
Speaker 2: Cotton this seems very odd to. Me, again could be totally,
Speaker 2: innocent could be just someone doing a kindness for a.
Speaker 2: Neighbor but why would someone who didn't Know james at
Speaker 2: all suddenly be super involved in the, search then borrow
Speaker 2: money From, james and then show up as a. Pallbearer,
Speaker 2: again though that's all, circumstantial we have to go back
Speaker 2: to the place and time Where christina was last seen
Speaker 2: in and around the Bear Cat grocery store in The
Speaker 2: bank parking. Lot even though there are a lot of disparate,
Speaker 2: reports actually what we're finding out is That christina went
Speaker 2: missing in a pretty small window of, time and we
Speaker 2: see something else in the case file that could potentially
Speaker 2: help police talk to the four people who were working
Speaker 2: inside the Bear Cat grocery store that. Day, now three
Speaker 2: of the employees that either left or were otherwise occupied
Speaker 2: When christina was, around but one, person the, cashier got
Speaker 2: a very good look at a, stranger someone who came
Speaker 2: into the store at around the same time As christina was,
Speaker 2: there someone who she said no one in the store.
Speaker 2: RECOGNIZED i wanted to find this cashier because in the
Speaker 2: whole case, file she was the only one who had
Speaker 2: a definite and good description of a potential, suspect who
Speaker 2: had been close to the unknown stranger and actually seen
Speaker 2: a detailed view of their. FACE i will not say
Speaker 2: exactly how we did, it AND i won't use her
Speaker 2: name BECAUSE i know that this person is very. Nervous
Speaker 2: but we found, her And i'm putting this information out
Speaker 2: there because number, one this case file is. Public these
Speaker 2: names are part of the public record and, also most,
Speaker 2: IMPORTANTLY i believe this information is critical to solving this.
Speaker 2: Case we asked the cashier about what she had seen
Speaker 2: that day before we showed her her police statement by the,
Speaker 2: way which she'd never. Seen in her, statement the cashier
Speaker 2: said she was working at The bearcat grocery store On,
Speaker 2: Saturday may, fourth nineteen ninety. One she, said at about
Speaker 2: five forty five, pm an, individual a, stranger came in
Speaker 2: and bought some. Cigarettes in her statement to, police the
Speaker 2: officer who interviewed the cashier noted she said that the
Speaker 2: stranger drove a mid or late seventies Model oldsmobile four
Speaker 2: door and it looked blue gray in. Color in a,
Speaker 2: statement she, said the stranger pulled in heading. North the
Speaker 2: statement reads, quote she saw him on the sidewalk looking
Speaker 2: north and south and making A u turn and went
Speaker 2: south end. Quote the statement described the stranger as a white,
Speaker 2: male mid, thirties five foot nine and around one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty five, pounds hair dark, brown almost reddish in,
Speaker 2: color clean, hair almost shoulder, length not, curly almost. Straight
Speaker 2: she further stated he had a mustache and that his
Speaker 2: hair was cupped around as, face which was. Thin she
Speaker 2: said he wasn't wearing glasses or a. Hat he had
Speaker 2: on older jeans and Bell crow type tennis shoes with
Speaker 2: a GRAY t shirt underneath an older shirt that was short.
Speaker 2: Sleeved she said no tattoos were. Visible in her, statement
Speaker 2: she said the, stranger who was white but had tan,
Speaker 2: skin looked Like Richard, gear that he bought cigarettes and,
Speaker 2: left and that he stared at. Her the police report
Speaker 2: was very, brief but when we talked to the, cashier
Speaker 2: she gave us a lot of details that were not
Speaker 2: in the police. Report, again it's important to note that
Speaker 2: we asked her about her memories before we showed her
Speaker 2: her own.
Speaker 3: Statement most of.
Speaker 2: The police statement match which she told, us but there
Speaker 2: were some very important. Differences first of, all she said
Speaker 2: she got a very good look at the stranger's, car
Speaker 2: and she emphatically said it was brown or tan in,
Speaker 2: color not. Blue, also when you read the police, report
Speaker 2: it kind of makes it sound like the stranger was
Speaker 2: standing on the. Sidewalk she clarified what she. Meant she
Speaker 2: said he pulled his car all the way up on the.
Speaker 2: Sidewalk in, fact he pulled it so far up that
Speaker 2: he had to get out on the passenger, side and
Speaker 2: she remembers looking out the window at that car because
Speaker 2: that was. Annoying she described the car as, dirty but
Speaker 2: definitely brown or. Tan and she clarified when she said
Speaker 2: the stranger looked Like Richard, gear she was really talking
Speaker 2: about the distinctive nose shape and.
Speaker 1: Eyes she.
Speaker 2: Said the stranger walked into the store and Bought marlbora
Speaker 2: reds in the hard. Pack then he asked if she
Speaker 2: had some. Matches she, said, yes, sir we, do and
Speaker 2: gave him some of the freebie. Matches then he, left
Speaker 2: and because he had parked so close to the building
Speaker 2: up on that, sidewalk he had to get in through
Speaker 2: the passenger side of the car and shift over to
Speaker 2: the driver's. Side she said he was. Alone he drove
Speaker 2: away and she never saw him. Again the next page
Speaker 2: after the cashier's statement in the case file is a
Speaker 2: page that explains that a sketch artist met with. Her
Speaker 2: they developed a composite, photo and that the comp leaded
Speaker 2: composite would be made part of the case. File but
Speaker 2: the photo copy of the composite drawing is not there
Speaker 2: as far AS i can.
Speaker 3: TELL i don't know if the.
Speaker 2: Police just aren't including, it or if it's not in
Speaker 2: the case file at all. ANYMORE i asked the cashier about,
Speaker 2: it and she remembered that image very. Clearly she said
Speaker 2: she might still have a copy and said she would
Speaker 2: go home to look in her. Safe then she texted
Speaker 2: me and said she found. It she had the original composite.
Speaker 2: Photo it had been sitting in her safe for over thirty.
Speaker 2: Years we showed her some pictures of the people who
Speaker 2: were mentioned by police back in the, day Including Charles,
Speaker 2: cotton but she says that was not the stranger she waited.
Speaker 2: On Then amy shows her an old picture Of Robbie,
Speaker 2: tubbs her father in. Law the cashier, blinked looked, shocked and,
Speaker 2: said who is?
Speaker 3: This how did you get?
Speaker 2: This we asked her if she believed that was the
Speaker 2: man she saw in the Bear cat that. Day, later
Speaker 2: we texted her a couple more pictures from that. Era
Speaker 2: she texted me, BACK i got cold. CHILLS i think
Speaker 2: this is the man who was in the store that.
Speaker 2: DAY i know that IDs are not definitive proof of.
Speaker 2: Anything often people are, wrong and even If Robbie tubbs
Speaker 2: was in town that, day that does not mean he
Speaker 2: had anything to do With christina's. Death BUT i do
Speaker 2: find it interesting that the description of the car was
Speaker 2: different from the one in the case, file and that
Speaker 2: the cashier seems so haunted by looking at the image
Speaker 2: Of Robbie tubbs next to that drawing she has had
Speaker 2: in her safe for the past thirty. YEARS i know
Speaker 2: positive ideas are not definitive, proof but it means we
Speaker 2: need to keep. Digging I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen
Speaker 2: Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a production
Speaker 2: Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and
Speaker 2: narrated by, Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. Watts
Speaker 2: music contributed By ben So, lee executive producers Of Virginia,
Speaker 2: Prescott Brandon barr And Helsei.
Speaker 3: Crowley if you have a case you'd like.
Speaker 2: Me and my team to look, into you can reach
Speaker 2: out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at
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