1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,161 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,881 --> 00:01:33,441 Speaker 2: On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine year old Christina 13 00:01:33,481 --> 00:01:36,321 Speaker 2: Pipkin was selling jewelry door to door for a school 14 00:01:36,401 --> 00:01:40,681 Speaker 2: fundraiser in her hometown of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was 15 00:01:40,681 --> 00:01:43,441 Speaker 2: supposed to be home before dark, but she never made 16 00:01:43,441 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: it back. Her parents, Frida and James, frantically looked for her. 17 00:01:48,121 --> 00:01:51,201 Speaker 2: They called friends and volunteers and scoured the area, but 18 00:01:51,281 --> 00:01:55,041 Speaker 2: found no signs of Christina. This little girl seemed to 19 00:01:55,081 --> 00:01:59,121 Speaker 2: have vanished into thin air. They got an answer, but 20 00:01:59,201 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: it wasn't the answer. They were hoping for. Three days later, 21 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: on May seventh, nineteen ninety one, Christina Pipkin's body was 22 00:02:06,921 --> 00:02:11,761 Speaker 2: found floating in cow Lake Ditch. Almost twenty three years later, 23 00:02:12,481 --> 00:02:14,761 Speaker 2: this case is still unsolved. 24 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:16,641 Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend. 25 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,441 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 26 00:02:19,481 --> 00:02:21,921 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 27 00:02:21,921 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight 28 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,641 Speaker 2: seven four four six' one four or. Five this Is 29 00:02:30,721 --> 00:03:23,441 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder. Line by the. Way as you can, 30 00:03:23,481 --> 00:03:25,601 Speaker 2: Tell i've been talking to a lot of people this, 31 00:03:25,681 --> 00:03:27,521 Speaker 2: week So i've lost my voice a little. 32 00:03:27,521 --> 00:03:28,601 Speaker 3: Bit please excuse. 33 00:03:28,641 --> 00:03:33,241 Speaker 2: Me i'm In Hickory ridge for a meeting With Amy, tubbs, 34 00:03:33,601 --> 00:03:36,001 Speaker 2: who AS i mentioned in the last, episode is married 35 00:03:36,001 --> 00:03:39,001 Speaker 2: To Robbie Tubbs. Junior she's the daughter in law Of 36 00:03:39,081 --> 00:03:42,201 Speaker 2: Robbie Tubbs. Sr who is a suspect In christina's. Murder 37 00:03:42,201 --> 00:03:45,961 Speaker 2: back in the, Nineties robbie was arrested and he was 38 00:03:46,081 --> 00:03:49,401 Speaker 2: charged With Christina pippkins's, murder but as we said in 39 00:03:49,441 --> 00:03:52,561 Speaker 2: the last, episode he was released after there was. 40 00:03:52,481 --> 00:03:53,641 Speaker 3: A mistake with THE dna. 41 00:03:53,721 --> 00:03:58,561 Speaker 2: Testing the Prosecutor Fletcher long admitted that instead of testing 42 00:03:58,641 --> 00:04:01,921 Speaker 2: hair from a vehicle once owned By Robbie. Tubbs law 43 00:04:02,041 --> 00:04:06,201 Speaker 2: enforcement tested the wrong, hair and then when they tried 44 00:04:06,241 --> 00:04:09,161 Speaker 2: to correct that, error they said that there wasn't ENOUGH 45 00:04:09,241 --> 00:04:11,841 Speaker 2: dna on the hair that was Inside Robbie tubb's car to. 46 00:04:11,921 --> 00:04:17,001 Speaker 2: TEST i still wonder is that hair still around and 47 00:04:17,121 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: with today's, technology could it be. 48 00:04:19,921 --> 00:04:22,321 Speaker 3: Retested that's just. 49 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,641 Speaker 2: One of the many questions we're going to be asking 50 00:04:24,681 --> 00:04:29,561 Speaker 2: as we investigate this. Case amy said that since she 51 00:04:29,681 --> 00:04:33,361 Speaker 2: started dating her, husband they've never really had contact with his, 52 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: Father Robbie. Senor she said she's heard That Robbie senior 53 00:04:37,361 --> 00:04:41,001 Speaker 2: has a criminal background and that, he's in her, words 54 00:04:41,041 --> 00:04:43,681 Speaker 2: and not a great. Guy but as she pointed, out 55 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,561 Speaker 2: that's quite a different thing from being a child. Killer 56 00:04:47,561 --> 00:04:50,481 Speaker 2: amy wanted to know If Robbie senior was capable of 57 00:04:50,521 --> 00:04:54,801 Speaker 2: committing this horrific. Crime she is, clear if he is 58 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,481 Speaker 2: the right, person he needs to be, charged and if 59 00:04:57,521 --> 00:04:59,561 Speaker 2: it's someone, else we need to figure out who they 60 00:04:59,601 --> 00:05:04,401 Speaker 2: are and where they. Are either way charging a suspect 61 00:05:04,441 --> 00:05:08,201 Speaker 2: and then having those charges fall apart and seeing the 62 00:05:08,241 --> 00:05:11,721 Speaker 2: person you believe is guilty. Released As i've said for 63 00:05:11,761 --> 00:05:14,281 Speaker 2: a long, time this should not be a stopping. 64 00:05:13,921 --> 00:05:14,481 Speaker 3: Point for law. 65 00:05:14,521 --> 00:05:17,481 Speaker 2: Enforcement either you need to get more evidence on your, 66 00:05:17,481 --> 00:05:21,161 Speaker 2: suspect or you need to find the right person to. 67 00:05:21,281 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: Charge amy and our meeting In Hickory ridge in the. 68 00:05:27,761 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: Morning there's really only one place in, town the only 69 00:05:30,921 --> 00:05:34,321 Speaker 2: coffee shop for Miles cafe forty. Nine how do you 70 00:05:34,361 --> 00:05:41,401 Speaker 2: get around the not being An Arkansas. 71 00:05:38,841 --> 00:05:41,561 Speaker 3: So amy AND i are catching. Up we've had some exciting. 72 00:05:41,601 --> 00:05:45,201 Speaker 2: Developments both of our FOYER a quests were, granted so 73 00:05:45,241 --> 00:05:48,241 Speaker 2: we now have access to the Entire Christina pipkin case, 74 00:05:48,241 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: file all two hundred pages of. 75 00:05:50,321 --> 00:05:52,001 Speaker 3: It that's the good. 76 00:05:52,041 --> 00:05:54,841 Speaker 2: News the bad news is that there is no audio 77 00:05:55,001 --> 00:05:58,841 Speaker 2: of the original interviews and there are no. Photos The 78 00:05:58,961 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: Arkansas State police have also not released the autopsy. Report 79 00:06:02,561 --> 00:06:05,561 Speaker 2: it's not part of the case. File there are also 80 00:06:06,121 --> 00:06:10,281 Speaker 2: almost no, transcripts so all we have of the police 81 00:06:10,321 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: interviews are these short type. Pages presumably they were taken 82 00:06:15,081 --> 00:06:18,721 Speaker 2: from notes and then. Transcribed SINCE i have a lot 83 00:06:18,721 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: of experience with case, FILES i want to verify everything. 84 00:06:22,281 --> 00:06:24,841 Speaker 2: OURSELVES i want to get in touch with everyone we 85 00:06:24,921 --> 00:06:28,881 Speaker 2: can who isn't dead and is willing to. Talk we've 86 00:06:28,881 --> 00:06:30,881 Speaker 2: come here To East arkansas to see if there is 87 00:06:30,921 --> 00:06:33,281 Speaker 2: anyone around who was there on the Day christina went. 88 00:06:33,281 --> 00:06:36,281 Speaker 2: Missing this could be our only hope for getting new. 89 00:06:36,321 --> 00:06:39,721 Speaker 3: Information i'll take one. 90 00:06:39,721 --> 00:06:44,721 Speaker 2: More amy Brought, denise who describes her self as an 91 00:06:44,761 --> 00:06:47,121 Speaker 2: amateur sleuth who's been working on the case for a long. 92 00:06:47,161 --> 00:06:50,161 Speaker 2: Time denise has also brought a friend who says she 93 00:06:50,241 --> 00:06:52,601 Speaker 2: just wants to be in the. Background she spends her 94 00:06:52,641 --> 00:06:56,361 Speaker 2: time As denise's, sidekick helping her find addresses and get 95 00:06:56,361 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: into contact with. People after we get our, coffee we 96 00:06:59,561 --> 00:07:01,081 Speaker 2: start talking to some other people in the. 97 00:07:01,121 --> 00:07:04,521 Speaker 3: Cafe was that the little girl she's found it in 98 00:07:04,561 --> 00:07:05,481 Speaker 3: a ditch right out? 99 00:07:05,521 --> 00:07:05,681 Speaker 4: Here? 100 00:07:05,841 --> 00:07:07,001 Speaker 1: Yeah, YEAH i. 101 00:07:07,041 --> 00:07:09,561 Speaker 3: THINK i mean this was this happened BEFORE i was. 102 00:07:09,601 --> 00:07:13,041 Speaker 2: Born and then WHAT i heard was that her stepdad 103 00:07:13,161 --> 00:07:15,801 Speaker 2: had drowned. Her and she was. Now she said that 104 00:07:15,881 --> 00:07:19,241 Speaker 2: she Heard christina's stepdad had drowned. Her that was one 105 00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:21,641 Speaker 2: of the Rumors we've been hearing a lot that someone 106 00:07:21,721 --> 00:07:24,281 Speaker 2: In christina's family did this to her and then there 107 00:07:24,321 --> 00:07:27,401 Speaker 2: was a cover. Up some people have Blamed christina's, mom 108 00:07:27,561 --> 00:07:30,881 Speaker 2: others her. Dad some people have even mentioned a, stepdad 109 00:07:31,321 --> 00:07:34,201 Speaker 2: even though that would be impossible Since christina didn't even 110 00:07:34,241 --> 00:07:34,441 Speaker 2: have a. 111 00:07:34,481 --> 00:07:39,921 Speaker 3: Stepfather But i've heard that Story i've heard that story. 112 00:07:39,961 --> 00:07:41,961 Speaker 1: Too, YEAH i heard that story, Too but, no she 113 00:07:41,961 --> 00:07:42,361 Speaker 1: didn't have. 114 00:07:42,281 --> 00:07:46,241 Speaker 2: A stepdad That this is just one of many versions 115 00:07:46,361 --> 00:07:49,081 Speaker 2: of rumors that have been flying around town Since christina went. 116 00:07:49,121 --> 00:07:53,161 Speaker 2: Missing the woman we talked to brought her mom, over 117 00:07:53,361 --> 00:07:55,401 Speaker 2: and her mom knew a. Lot she said she was 118 00:07:55,401 --> 00:07:57,081 Speaker 2: in high school at the time and was part of 119 00:07:57,121 --> 00:07:57,441 Speaker 2: the search. 120 00:07:57,481 --> 00:08:01,161 Speaker 3: PARTY i JUST i remember searching the. 121 00:08:01,241 --> 00:08:04,801 Speaker 4: Town it's heard that she didn't gone door to door 122 00:08:05,401 --> 00:08:09,361 Speaker 4: selling something for, school just we searched for days and 123 00:08:09,441 --> 00:08:10,281 Speaker 4: days and days and. 124 00:08:10,361 --> 00:08:13,161 Speaker 2: Days she mentioned another rumor That i've heard a lot 125 00:08:13,201 --> 00:08:16,401 Speaker 2: of that the reason she believed someone In christina's family 126 00:08:16,401 --> 00:08:19,921 Speaker 2: did this was because apparently no water from the ditch 127 00:08:19,921 --> 00:08:22,441 Speaker 2: Where christina's body was found was found in her. Lungs 128 00:08:22,521 --> 00:08:24,961 Speaker 2: she had, chlorinated so it had to have come from 129 00:08:25,001 --> 00:08:28,001 Speaker 2: a bathtub or something there about this led them to 130 00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:30,241 Speaker 2: believe she had been drowned in a bathtub and then 131 00:08:30,281 --> 00:08:31,001 Speaker 2: taken out there and. 132 00:08:31,081 --> 00:08:36,641 Speaker 3: Dumped this is one of those rumors we. 133 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:39,561 Speaker 2: Can shut down right, now because even though we didn't 134 00:08:39,601 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: get the actual autopsy report as part of the case, 135 00:08:41,841 --> 00:08:44,921 Speaker 2: file we did get some documents that refer to interviews 136 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,761 Speaker 2: with a medical examiner and to forensic testing that was 137 00:08:47,761 --> 00:08:51,761 Speaker 2: done On christina's. Body the results of those tests showed 138 00:08:51,881 --> 00:08:55,441 Speaker 2: that the water and mud In Christina pipkins's lungs matched 139 00:08:55,481 --> 00:08:57,961 Speaker 2: the water From Cow Lake, ditch the body of water 140 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: where she was. Found we also learned from the case 141 00:09:01,441 --> 00:09:04,401 Speaker 2: file that Fawm Me malick did the autopsy because one 142 00:09:04,401 --> 00:09:06,601 Speaker 2: of the investigators put a report. 143 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:06,721 Speaker 3: In the case. 144 00:09:06,761 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: File he talked about meeting with Doctor malik to discuss 145 00:09:09,721 --> 00:09:13,401 Speaker 2: some of his. Conclusions i've talked a lot about Doctor 146 00:09:13,441 --> 00:09:17,721 Speaker 2: malik's controversial history on previous. Podcasts he was the medical 147 00:09:17,721 --> 00:09:21,081 Speaker 2: examiner In arkansas who was found to have botched hundreds 148 00:09:21,121 --> 00:09:24,881 Speaker 2: of autopsies back in the eighties and. Nineties in, fact 149 00:09:25,401 --> 00:09:28,681 Speaker 2: the time period when he Did christina's autopsy was not 150 00:09:28,921 --> 00:09:33,641 Speaker 2: long before he was forced into. Retirement but for the, 151 00:09:33,721 --> 00:09:36,441 Speaker 2: moment until we're proven, otherwise we're going to take the 152 00:09:36,481 --> 00:09:40,601 Speaker 2: information that we get about the autopsy at face. Value 153 00:09:40,721 --> 00:09:44,921 Speaker 2: Doctor malik indicated there was obvious. Decomposition we knew she 154 00:09:44,961 --> 00:09:47,641 Speaker 2: had been in the water for three. Days he also 155 00:09:47,721 --> 00:09:50,681 Speaker 2: said there were no signs of. Strangulation he said he 156 00:09:50,681 --> 00:09:53,561 Speaker 2: HAD x Rayed christina's body from the outside and from the. 157 00:09:53,601 --> 00:09:57,201 Speaker 2: Inside he said he could find no stab, wounds no 158 00:09:57,361 --> 00:10:01,641 Speaker 2: obvious cuts of, bruises and there was water and mud 159 00:10:01,641 --> 00:10:05,081 Speaker 2: found In christina's, stomach water that matched the water from the. 160 00:10:05,121 --> 00:10:09,921 Speaker 2: Ditch Doctor malik also found pickles and carrots In christina's. 161 00:10:09,921 --> 00:10:13,441 Speaker 2: Stomach we know That christina ate pot pie for lunch that. 162 00:10:13,561 --> 00:10:16,641 Speaker 2: Day we also know That Elsie, lyles her next door 163 00:10:16,641 --> 00:10:19,881 Speaker 2: neighbor and sometimes a, babysitter gave her a pickle as 164 00:10:19,921 --> 00:10:23,921 Speaker 2: a snack at around four. Pm the report, reads Quote 165 00:10:24,441 --> 00:10:27,401 Speaker 2: Doctor malik was emphatic he could find no other cause 166 00:10:27,441 --> 00:10:31,321 Speaker 2: of death other than drowning end. Quote but it also 167 00:10:31,441 --> 00:10:34,761 Speaker 2: says when given the supposition that one could smother an 168 00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:38,161 Speaker 2: individual to the point of unconscious and then throw that 169 00:10:38,201 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: person into the, river Doctor mallek could make no comment regarding, 170 00:10:42,081 --> 00:10:45,841 Speaker 2: this but said that this was the. Possibility in other, 171 00:10:45,881 --> 00:10:48,481 Speaker 2: words we can't tell from the limited information we have 172 00:10:48,961 --> 00:10:51,441 Speaker 2: Whether christina fell into the water on her own or 173 00:10:51,601 --> 00:10:54,601 Speaker 2: was thrown in, there or whether she was conscious at the, 174 00:10:54,641 --> 00:10:58,641 Speaker 2: time but we can rule out the rumor That christina 175 00:10:58,721 --> 00:11:00,681 Speaker 2: was drowned at home and then taken out to that 176 00:11:00,761 --> 00:11:04,721 Speaker 2: site where she was dumped by the Way christina's, Father, 177 00:11:04,881 --> 00:11:08,241 Speaker 2: james and everyone else in her family cooperated completely with. 178 00:11:08,321 --> 00:11:12,401 Speaker 2: Investigators James pipkin took and passed a light detector test 179 00:11:12,721 --> 00:11:14,641 Speaker 2: that's part of the case, file and he was cleared 180 00:11:14,681 --> 00:11:19,081 Speaker 2: by law. ENFORCEMENT i cannot imagine the pain of losing 181 00:11:19,081 --> 00:11:22,481 Speaker 2: a child and then after that having people in town 182 00:11:22,601 --> 00:11:25,121 Speaker 2: either think that you were involved somehow or that you 183 00:11:25,161 --> 00:11:29,161 Speaker 2: were hiding. Something Plus james had to go through the 184 00:11:29,161 --> 00:11:32,521 Speaker 2: pain of being asked about his marital problems issues he 185 00:11:32,561 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: had had previously with his Wife. Frieda that must have 186 00:11:35,521 --> 00:11:40,481 Speaker 2: also been a. Nightmare but, unfortunately when law enforcement is 187 00:11:40,481 --> 00:11:43,321 Speaker 2: looking through someone's pattern of, life they have to know 188 00:11:43,361 --> 00:11:45,921 Speaker 2: the history for, you the family. Members it's all part 189 00:11:45,961 --> 00:11:49,361 Speaker 2: of solving the. Puzzle there have been some other rumors 190 00:11:49,401 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: in this town that refuse to, die so we need 191 00:11:51,961 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: to check them out so we can figure out what 192 00:11:53,721 --> 00:11:57,361 Speaker 2: to investigate further and what else to rule. Out we 193 00:11:57,401 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: went to the place Where christina and her family lived 194 00:12:00,161 --> 00:12:03,121 Speaker 2: On Doughty. Street, okay so this was The bearcat right 195 00:12:03,801 --> 00:12:05,401 Speaker 2: where apparently everyone in town went that. 196 00:12:05,481 --> 00:12:08,521 Speaker 3: Day there's the. Bank the alley still runs behind the, 197 00:12:08,561 --> 00:12:11,161 Speaker 3: bank so this whole thing is. Tiny, Yeah and there's 198 00:12:11,161 --> 00:12:14,401 Speaker 3: the tracks right. There, yeah and then there's the little park. 199 00:12:14,561 --> 00:12:16,201 Speaker 3: School all that is back. 200 00:12:16,241 --> 00:12:21,321 Speaker 4: There christina lives this, House, no that, house this, lot 201 00:12:21,521 --> 00:12:23,201 Speaker 4: this lot where there is no more. 202 00:12:23,241 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: House there's no house there, now just a, vacant overgrown 203 00:12:28,201 --> 00:12:29,281 Speaker 2: lot with a home next. 204 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,721 Speaker 3: Door we have a couple of goals here. 205 00:12:31,761 --> 00:12:34,161 Speaker 2: Today first of, all we want to take a look 206 00:12:34,201 --> 00:12:36,721 Speaker 2: at the place Where christina's house was On Doty street 207 00:12:37,241 --> 00:12:40,641 Speaker 2: and the place where she was last, seen The bearcat grocery. 208 00:12:40,641 --> 00:12:45,561 Speaker 2: Store it's not there anymore, now it's a. Tireshup denise 209 00:12:45,681 --> 00:12:47,641 Speaker 2: is talking me through the streets In christina's. 210 00:12:47,641 --> 00:12:50,201 Speaker 4: Neighborhood so that was her, house and then the house 211 00:12:50,201 --> 00:12:52,641 Speaker 4: they were saying that backed up on her yard would 212 00:12:52,641 --> 00:12:53,241 Speaker 4: have been that one over. 213 00:12:53,241 --> 00:12:55,761 Speaker 3: There, maybe, WELL i think that's something. Different or is 214 00:12:55,761 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: it destroyed? Now maybe? Yet see how these so Lass 215 00:12:58,761 --> 00:13:01,321 Speaker 3: that's What i'm, thinking and those houses might have been the. 216 00:13:01,361 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: Same but we see from the case file that police 217 00:13:04,321 --> 00:13:08,241 Speaker 2: talked To christina's Mom frida and Father. James they discussed 218 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,801 Speaker 2: what they did on the Day christina disappeared in a 219 00:13:10,921 --> 00:13:15,361 Speaker 2: lot more detail Than i've ever. Seen On, Saturday may, 220 00:13:15,401 --> 00:13:18,561 Speaker 2: Fourth frida said it started out as an Ordinary. Saturday 221 00:13:19,241 --> 00:13:21,521 Speaker 2: frida went to the post office that morning between nine 222 00:13:21,561 --> 00:13:24,761 Speaker 2: thirty and ten. Am when she got, Home christina and 223 00:13:24,801 --> 00:13:28,241 Speaker 2: her Brother adam were watching. Cartoons frida said she had 224 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:29,761 Speaker 2: some coffee with her Neighbor Pat. 225 00:13:29,801 --> 00:13:31,241 Speaker 3: Moore Then pat. 226 00:13:31,361 --> 00:13:34,401 Speaker 2: Left after a few, Minutes frida started cleaning and doing 227 00:13:34,481 --> 00:13:38,001 Speaker 2: laundry Because saturday was wash. Day at around eleven thirty or, 228 00:13:38,041 --> 00:13:41,401 Speaker 2: Twelve freda warmed up some pop. Pies they ate the pop, 229 00:13:41,441 --> 00:13:44,801 Speaker 2: pies and they had iced tea to. Drink after, lunch 230 00:13:45,081 --> 00:13:47,961 Speaker 2: she was hanging clothes out on the line When james 231 00:13:48,001 --> 00:13:50,641 Speaker 2: came out and showed her a picture of a used 232 00:13:50,641 --> 00:13:53,601 Speaker 2: car he had been looking out in the local. Magazine 233 00:13:53,641 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: she And james Took christina And adam and they went 234 00:13:55,801 --> 00:13:58,481 Speaker 2: To walmart and Went they bought a few things there 235 00:13:58,521 --> 00:14:02,441 Speaker 2: for the. House then they went To Cherry, valley a 236 00:14:02,561 --> 00:14:05,841 Speaker 2: town about fifteen miles east Of Hickory. Ridge they looked 237 00:14:05,881 --> 00:14:08,201 Speaker 2: at the, car a Blue mustang that was parked out 238 00:14:08,201 --> 00:14:10,761 Speaker 2: in the seller's. Yard they took a quick look at the, 239 00:14:10,801 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: car asked about the, price and left there around one. 240 00:14:13,721 --> 00:14:17,521 Speaker 2: Pm at some point they stopped At gaskin's grocery store 241 00:14:17,521 --> 00:14:21,201 Speaker 2: In vandaal they bought some pork, rinds and Apparently christina 242 00:14:21,241 --> 00:14:23,281 Speaker 2: had a few of the pork skins on the ride, 243 00:14:23,281 --> 00:14:26,041 Speaker 2: home but she didn't really eat a lot of them 244 00:14:26,081 --> 00:14:28,321 Speaker 2: because apparently they were a little bit pink and she 245 00:14:28,481 --> 00:14:32,601 Speaker 2: didn't love the. Taste the family got back, Home adam 246 00:14:32,641 --> 00:14:36,201 Speaker 2: And james were hanging out WATCHING. Tv christina played with 247 00:14:36,281 --> 00:14:38,721 Speaker 2: one Of frida's old makeup compacts that she had found lying. 248 00:14:38,721 --> 00:14:42,361 Speaker 2: Around james was programming THE vcr to tape the Movie 249 00:14:42,401 --> 00:14:44,761 Speaker 2: The hunt For Red october that was airing that. Night 250 00:14:45,721 --> 00:14:48,641 Speaker 2: at some, Point christina asked her parents if she could 251 00:14:48,641 --> 00:14:51,561 Speaker 2: go door to door to sell her. Jewelry she headed 252 00:14:51,601 --> 00:14:56,001 Speaker 2: out at around four thirty or FIVE. Pm NOW i 253 00:14:56,041 --> 00:14:58,601 Speaker 2: should say that what's in the case file differs from 254 00:14:58,601 --> 00:15:01,441 Speaker 2: what we've read in the, newspapers because in the newspapers 255 00:15:01,481 --> 00:15:03,761 Speaker 2: it said she asked her, Dad james if she could go. 256 00:15:03,841 --> 00:15:06,441 Speaker 2: Out he said no at, first then said, okay but 257 00:15:06,481 --> 00:15:09,281 Speaker 2: you have to be home before. Dark but in the case, 258 00:15:09,281 --> 00:15:13,001 Speaker 2: File james said he believed That christina had asked her 259 00:15:13,041 --> 00:15:16,161 Speaker 2: mother if she could go sell, jewelry though he does 260 00:15:16,241 --> 00:15:18,601 Speaker 2: mention the kids knew not to cross over to the 261 00:15:18,601 --> 00:15:22,201 Speaker 2: other side of the railroad. Tracks at around seven or 262 00:15:22,241 --> 00:15:25,441 Speaker 2: seven thirty, Pm frida realized she still needed a few 263 00:15:25,441 --> 00:15:28,121 Speaker 2: things from the. Store she ran up to The Bearcat, 264 00:15:28,161 --> 00:15:31,641 Speaker 2: grocery a couple of blocks from their. House the Bear 265 00:15:31,761 --> 00:15:34,401 Speaker 2: cat was next to the only bank in, Town Cross County. 266 00:15:34,401 --> 00:15:36,881 Speaker 3: Bank the two businesses shared a parking. 267 00:15:36,921 --> 00:15:40,841 Speaker 2: Lot at the, Store frida bought onions and, gravy and 268 00:15:40,881 --> 00:15:43,841 Speaker 2: potatoes and. Mushrooms she said she was only in the 269 00:15:44,001 --> 00:15:46,001 Speaker 2: for around five minutes and then she went right back. 270 00:15:46,001 --> 00:15:50,161 Speaker 2: Home she started to make dinner to fry. Potatoes at some, 271 00:15:50,281 --> 00:15:53,641 Speaker 2: point it started to get, dark and that's When christina's 272 00:15:53,681 --> 00:15:57,441 Speaker 2: parents realized that she hadn't made it. Home frida Sent 273 00:15:57,481 --> 00:16:00,521 Speaker 2: adam out to look for his. Sister pretty, quickly he 274 00:16:00,561 --> 00:16:03,961 Speaker 2: came back and said he couldn't find. Her that's When frieda, said, 275 00:16:04,041 --> 00:16:07,041 Speaker 2: QUOTE i had a gut feeling something was not. Right 276 00:16:07,481 --> 00:16:10,481 Speaker 2: this is a mother's. CONCERN i Sent adam out to Find. 277 00:16:10,561 --> 00:16:13,441 Speaker 2: Christina when he came back and said he couldn't find, 278 00:16:13,481 --> 00:16:16,041 Speaker 2: HER i knew something was wrong with my baby. 279 00:16:16,081 --> 00:16:16,721 Speaker 3: Girl end. 280 00:16:16,801 --> 00:16:21,001 Speaker 2: Quote james And frieda went around the. Neighborhood they went 281 00:16:21,041 --> 00:16:23,761 Speaker 2: to some apartments nearby Where christina had been selling her 282 00:16:23,841 --> 00:16:26,721 Speaker 2: Jewelry in the days before she went, Missing they went 283 00:16:26,761 --> 00:16:29,321 Speaker 2: to The bearcat store and then they went back home 284 00:16:29,401 --> 00:16:33,161 Speaker 2: in Case christina came. Back they called the police to 285 00:16:33,201 --> 00:16:37,441 Speaker 2: report her missing and the search. Started james said in 286 00:16:37,481 --> 00:16:40,841 Speaker 2: his statement Quote after the police, came we started a 287 00:16:40,881 --> 00:16:43,481 Speaker 2: house to house. SEARCH i went to several houses and 288 00:16:43,481 --> 00:16:45,561 Speaker 2: went back home to see if anyone had found. Her 289 00:16:45,761 --> 00:16:47,361 Speaker 2: after my brother in law got to the, house we 290 00:16:47,401 --> 00:16:50,601 Speaker 2: went out. SEARCHING i kept hoping she would show. UP 291 00:16:50,961 --> 00:16:53,521 Speaker 2: i did not believe this was. HAPPENING i wondered what 292 00:16:53,641 --> 00:16:55,881 Speaker 2: happened to? Her where could she? Be as we drove 293 00:16:55,921 --> 00:16:58,481 Speaker 2: around looking for, HER i was hoping to see her. 294 00:16:58,641 --> 00:17:00,961 Speaker 2: WALKING i, thought if she could just get, AWAY i 295 00:17:01,041 --> 00:17:03,721 Speaker 2: might see her on the. Road On sunday we went 296 00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:06,281 Speaker 2: searching some. MORE i didn't eat BECAUSE i couldn't, eat 297 00:17:06,801 --> 00:17:09,121 Speaker 2: not knowing if my baby girl had anything to. EAT 298 00:17:09,801 --> 00:17:11,801 Speaker 2: i was wondering how she was being. Treated was she? 299 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:12,561 Speaker 3: Cold was she? 300 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 2: HUNGRY i kept hoping that whoever took her would let her. 301 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,561 Speaker 2: GO i kept looking up the street hoping THAT i 302 00:17:18,561 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: would see. HER i kept believing we would find her. 303 00:17:20,721 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: Alive even if she was, hurt we could get help for, 304 00:17:23,481 --> 00:17:26,481 Speaker 2: That but when they told me they had found her 305 00:17:26,521 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: and she was, dead how do you describe how do 306 00:17:29,521 --> 00:17:31,241 Speaker 2: you feel when you find out your daughter is? 307 00:17:31,281 --> 00:17:35,401 Speaker 3: Dead, angry, hurt. CONFUSED i don't know how to describe. 308 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: It end. QUOTE i don't know how. 309 00:17:38,961 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 2: Many of you have ever seen the movie Rosham, on 310 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,281 Speaker 2: but it's SOMETHING i think about a lot When i'm 311 00:17:43,321 --> 00:17:46,001 Speaker 2: doing in a bit. Instigation, now in that, movie there 312 00:17:46,001 --> 00:17:48,401 Speaker 2: are three different people and they're telling the story of 313 00:17:48,441 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 2: an assault and a. Murder each of them witness this 314 00:17:51,361 --> 00:17:55,161 Speaker 2: from their point of. View everyone saw exactly the same, 315 00:17:55,201 --> 00:17:59,041 Speaker 2: thing but each person gives you a different piece of the. 316 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,281 Speaker 2: Story each person has another piece of the. Puzzle it's 317 00:18:03,321 --> 00:18:05,921 Speaker 2: the same thing with a murder. Investigation we have all 318 00:18:05,961 --> 00:18:09,201 Speaker 2: these people who are present at The bearcat convenience store 319 00:18:09,241 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 2: and the bank that. Afternoon each of them saw a 320 00:18:11,921 --> 00:18:14,961 Speaker 2: small slice Of christina's, day and we really need to 321 00:18:15,001 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: put all those multiple versions. Together, now, admittedly there's a separate, 322 00:18:19,401 --> 00:18:23,441 Speaker 2: problem which is that memory itself changes over, time even 323 00:18:23,481 --> 00:18:26,241 Speaker 2: if you have great, recall but we'll get to that. Later, 324 00:18:26,361 --> 00:18:28,321 Speaker 2: first we need to get as many points of view 325 00:18:28,321 --> 00:18:30,521 Speaker 2: as possible to try and fill in some of these 326 00:18:30,521 --> 00:18:34,761 Speaker 2: holes on the. Timeline so let's go back To may, 327 00:18:34,881 --> 00:18:39,441 Speaker 2: fourth nineteen ninety. One christina is. Missing over the next few, 328 00:18:39,521 --> 00:18:43,041 Speaker 2: days police started talking to, people and as happens often 329 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 2: in small, town a few names got thrown. Around we 330 00:18:47,441 --> 00:18:50,321 Speaker 2: noticed something else in the case file that during this, 331 00:18:50,441 --> 00:18:53,241 Speaker 2: time quite a few people also mentioned they had seen 332 00:18:53,281 --> 00:18:56,041 Speaker 2: a blue car with a man driving, it one that 333 00:18:56,161 --> 00:18:58,441 Speaker 2: was in the bank parking lot and hanging around town 334 00:18:58,481 --> 00:19:01,681 Speaker 2: in general around the time When christina went. Missing that 335 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,241 Speaker 2: what we were about to find out was that people 336 00:19:04,321 --> 00:19:07,761 Speaker 2: had a lot of different descriptions of exactly what that 337 00:19:07,921 --> 00:19:12,881 Speaker 2: man and that vehicle looked. Like we measured the distance 338 00:19:12,921 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 2: from Where christina was last seen to where she was. 339 00:19:15,201 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 2: Found it was around three and a half, miles SO 340 00:19:18,201 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: i think police were. Right she was almost certainly driven 341 00:19:21,121 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 2: to that. Location so who drove her? There in a 342 00:19:25,201 --> 00:19:28,721 Speaker 2: town this, small it seems like somebody would have to 343 00:19:28,761 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: have seen. Something we need to find that, Car we 344 00:19:35,161 --> 00:19:38,241 Speaker 2: need to explore all of those, suspects figure out exactly 345 00:19:38,321 --> 00:19:41,521 Speaker 2: where everyone was on the Day christina went, missing and 346 00:19:41,601 --> 00:19:44,161 Speaker 2: also find out where this rumor about a blu carr. 347 00:19:44,241 --> 00:19:47,641 Speaker 2: Started one person the police talked to was The long, 348 00:19:47,721 --> 00:19:50,841 Speaker 2: Family they live right By christina's house at two eighty 349 00:19:50,881 --> 00:19:54,281 Speaker 2: Nine Doty. Street Michael, long who was twenty six at the, 350 00:19:54,321 --> 00:19:57,041 Speaker 2: time said that he was home That saturday afternoon at 351 00:19:57,041 --> 00:20:00,321 Speaker 2: around five. Pm he Said christina stopped by the house 352 00:20:00,361 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 2: looking for his little, sister who was Ten christina's, age 353 00:20:03,641 --> 00:20:06,401 Speaker 2: presumably to go door to door jewelry selling with. Her 354 00:20:06,921 --> 00:20:10,481 Speaker 2: his sister wasn't, home So christina. Left Michael satti next 355 00:20:10,481 --> 00:20:14,201 Speaker 2: Saw christina walking back south Down Third. Street then he 356 00:20:14,241 --> 00:20:17,281 Speaker 2: saw her turn west On Laurel street toward The bearcat's 357 00:20:17,321 --> 00:20:21,241 Speaker 2: door and the. Bank michael told police that about five 358 00:20:21,281 --> 00:20:24,281 Speaker 2: minutes After christina, left he went outside to check a 359 00:20:24,321 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 2: ditch for. Snakes, then he said he walked to The 360 00:20:26,921 --> 00:20:30,681 Speaker 2: bearcat for some. Cigarettes when he came, out he Saw 361 00:20:30,761 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: christina walking behind the alley At Cross County. Bank at that, 362 00:20:34,721 --> 00:20:37,521 Speaker 2: Point michael said she was headed. North this would have 363 00:20:37,601 --> 00:20:41,001 Speaker 2: been at around five thirty. Pm after, That michael said 364 00:20:41,041 --> 00:20:44,441 Speaker 2: he didn't see her. Again another family that lived next 365 00:20:44,441 --> 00:20:48,121 Speaker 2: to The pipkins were The, Moors pat And. Connie they 366 00:20:48,201 --> 00:20:50,921 Speaker 2: had a blue car registered to, them a nineteen seventy 367 00:20:51,001 --> 00:20:54,641 Speaker 2: Three Ford. Maverick on the Day christina went, missing two 368 00:20:54,681 --> 00:20:57,841 Speaker 2: friends of, Theirs Ricky dawson And james The, seers who 369 00:20:57,881 --> 00:21:00,241 Speaker 2: were eighteen and twenty at the, time came by the 370 00:21:00,241 --> 00:21:03,281 Speaker 2: house at around four. Thirty they were there to pick 371 00:21:03,361 --> 00:21:06,761 Speaker 2: Up ricky's, Girlfriend Jenna algood and her Friend April, jones 372 00:21:07,041 --> 00:21:10,201 Speaker 2: who were hanging out at the. Moorhouse, Ricky, james and 373 00:21:10,241 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: the two young women left for a night out on 374 00:21:12,401 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 2: the town And. Win but before they, Left ricky said 375 00:21:16,161 --> 00:21:18,281 Speaker 2: he remembered Seeing christina outside on her. 376 00:21:18,281 --> 00:21:18,801 Speaker 3: Porch next. 377 00:21:18,881 --> 00:21:23,241 Speaker 2: Door Ricky dawson was driving yet another blue, car his 378 00:21:23,321 --> 00:21:27,201 Speaker 2: mom's Blue camaro with rust on the. Side he said that, He, 379 00:21:27,521 --> 00:21:29,721 Speaker 2: james and the two girls went To win between five 380 00:21:29,801 --> 00:21:32,201 Speaker 2: thirty and six. Thirty he said they didn't come back 381 00:21:32,281 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: until around. Midnight by that, Time christina was missing and 382 00:21:36,121 --> 00:21:38,161 Speaker 2: a bunch of people were already out looking for. Her 383 00:21:39,201 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: so at that, point obviously things got pretty. Chaotic it 384 00:21:42,721 --> 00:21:46,521 Speaker 2: Was saturday. Night people were having, barbecues making, plans going on, 385 00:21:46,641 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 2: dates the sun was going down and the night was just. 386 00:21:49,441 --> 00:21:52,001 Speaker 2: Starting BUT i want to go back to the timeline 387 00:21:52,041 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: and mention a couple of other people who told police 388 00:21:54,481 --> 00:21:57,761 Speaker 2: they noticed things that were slightly out of the ordinary Because, 389 00:21:57,801 --> 00:22:01,481 Speaker 2: obviously any event can have huge significance when someone goes. 390 00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:06,841 Speaker 2: Missing On may, seventh police went to The Hickory Ridge 391 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,921 Speaker 2: Elementary school and they interviewed several. Children they asked about 392 00:22:10,961 --> 00:22:13,881 Speaker 2: a stranger that the kids had seen around the time 393 00:22:13,921 --> 00:22:19,561 Speaker 2: When christina, disappeared but their descriptions were completely. Inconsistent the 394 00:22:19,601 --> 00:22:23,161 Speaker 2: police report said there were numerous inconsistencies in the kid's 395 00:22:23,241 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 2: stories and so because of, that the officer could not 396 00:22:25,721 --> 00:22:29,801 Speaker 2: follow through on completing a composite. Drawing this doesn't surprise 397 00:22:29,921 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: me because by the time those kids were, interviewed it 398 00:22:31,921 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: had been several days and, unfortunately in my, opinion what 399 00:22:35,321 --> 00:22:38,001 Speaker 2: happened probably was that the kids talked to each other 400 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,441 Speaker 2: over the, weekend so their stories took on elements of each. 401 00:22:41,481 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 3: Other's this is not. 402 00:22:43,041 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: Uncommon so seventy two hours of, passed the whole town's 403 00:22:46,881 --> 00:22:50,721 Speaker 2: talking about a, kidnapping and suddenly the mysterious stranger had 404 00:22:50,761 --> 00:22:53,521 Speaker 2: gone from a white man with tan skin to A 405 00:22:53,601 --> 00:22:57,841 Speaker 2: Native american and Quote indian lookalike with high cheek bones 406 00:22:57,881 --> 00:23:02,161 Speaker 2: and black. Hair, now Because christina lived In Cross, county 407 00:23:02,441 --> 00:23:05,001 Speaker 2: but her body was found across the county line In Jackson, 408 00:23:05,001 --> 00:23:09,001 Speaker 2: county law enforcement met and decided That Jackson county would, 409 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,001 Speaker 2: assist but that the jurisdiction would stay In Cross. County 410 00:23:12,801 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: Jackson county did question some, people mainly guys who were 411 00:23:16,241 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: arrested for other things like, dwi's but police really seemed 412 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: to have pretty much zero leads and not much to go. 413 00:23:23,721 --> 00:23:28,161 Speaker 2: On there was another, family The. Earls they lived On Fourth, 414 00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:32,481 Speaker 2: street close To christina's. House Kim earles said that On saturday, 415 00:23:32,521 --> 00:23:35,401 Speaker 2: night just after, midnight she saw a young man in 416 00:23:35,441 --> 00:23:37,801 Speaker 2: a blue, car which she described as a late Model 417 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,281 Speaker 2: transam Or. Camaro she said it had one of those 418 00:23:41,321 --> 00:23:45,281 Speaker 2: novelty break lights that glowed around the license plate when 419 00:23:45,281 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 2: you put on the. Brakes she said she saw that, 420 00:23:47,801 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 2: car which seems like it would be pretty memorable at 421 00:23:50,121 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: a McDonald's and. Win she said the guy driving it 422 00:23:53,121 --> 00:23:56,761 Speaker 2: was dark complexion with tan, skin medium, bill dark, eyebrows 423 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 2: and that that person was around six foot. Two other 424 00:24:00,121 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 2: people said there was a guy Named James hannah who 425 00:24:02,441 --> 00:24:05,241 Speaker 2: had a car like, that but when police showed a 426 00:24:05,281 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 2: picture Of James hannah to the, girls they said they 427 00:24:07,241 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 2: Knew James hannah and this was not him driving the. 428 00:24:09,681 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: Car they described the driver as dirty, looking and said 429 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,161 Speaker 2: that that person was a stranger to. Them kim said 430 00:24:17,201 --> 00:24:19,521 Speaker 2: that she had seen that same, man the one driving 431 00:24:19,521 --> 00:24:22,481 Speaker 2: the blue car with the light up, brakes around town 432 00:24:22,561 --> 00:24:25,401 Speaker 2: for the past few. Months she said that this mystery 433 00:24:25,441 --> 00:24:28,841 Speaker 2: guy had been parked near the bank On. Saturday her 434 00:24:28,921 --> 00:24:31,681 Speaker 2: and her Sister angela said that they believed that this 435 00:24:31,761 --> 00:24:36,241 Speaker 2: person had followed them to the tanning. Bed sharon And 436 00:24:36,361 --> 00:24:39,961 Speaker 2: Ricky holloman had a daughter who was friends With. Christina 437 00:24:40,801 --> 00:24:43,241 Speaker 2: sharon was another person who said she saw a blue 438 00:24:43,241 --> 00:24:46,001 Speaker 2: car that. Day she said it was sportsy looking and 439 00:24:46,041 --> 00:24:48,441 Speaker 2: had primer or rest spots on, it and that it 440 00:24:48,481 --> 00:24:50,961 Speaker 2: was speeding on the side streets Of Hickory ridge On saturday. 441 00:24:50,961 --> 00:24:54,961 Speaker 2: Afternoon she described the driver as clean, shaven with short 442 00:24:55,001 --> 00:24:58,361 Speaker 2: hair and chubby. Cheeks she said that she had seen 443 00:24:58,401 --> 00:25:00,961 Speaker 2: that same car several times a, week going over to 444 00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:04,361 Speaker 2: what she thought was The pipkin. Residence sharon And ricky 445 00:25:04,441 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: had a, daughter and their daughter was a friend Of. 446 00:25:06,441 --> 00:25:09,681 Speaker 2: Christina's she actually Saw christina on the afternoon that she, 447 00:25:09,721 --> 00:25:12,441 Speaker 2: disappeared and she said she saw her with a young 448 00:25:12,521 --> 00:25:15,521 Speaker 2: boy that had gone to school With. Christina the little 449 00:25:15,521 --> 00:25:17,041 Speaker 2: girl said she didn't know the boy's. 450 00:25:17,121 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 3: Name she. 451 00:25:17,961 --> 00:25:20,601 Speaker 2: Said for some, reason the boy would hide behind trees 452 00:25:21,161 --> 00:25:24,561 Speaker 2: And christina seemed, impatient and that when this friend tried 453 00:25:24,601 --> 00:25:27,521 Speaker 2: to talk To christina, finally she, said the boy caught 454 00:25:27,601 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: up To christina and started walking with, her and they 455 00:25:29,681 --> 00:25:33,441 Speaker 2: went off in the other. Direction christina's friend said the 456 00:25:33,521 --> 00:25:36,321 Speaker 2: last time she Saw, Christina christina was walking south on 457 00:25:36,441 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: the southbound shoulder Of highway forty, nine in front of 458 00:25:39,121 --> 00:25:42,841 Speaker 2: the Bear Cat, store so between The Bearcat Grocery store. 459 00:25:42,641 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 3: And the post. 460 00:25:43,121 --> 00:25:47,441 Speaker 2: Office she said the blue car was Following, christina driving, 461 00:25:47,481 --> 00:25:50,521 Speaker 2: slow and That christina was shaking her head no to 462 00:25:50,601 --> 00:25:53,761 Speaker 2: the person driving the. Car she described it as an 463 00:25:53,801 --> 00:25:56,921 Speaker 2: older blue colored car with some type of brownish rust 464 00:25:56,961 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 2: colored stains or rust on the lower portions of the. 465 00:25:59,361 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 2: Car the friend said that she rode her bike around 466 00:26:02,881 --> 00:26:04,521 Speaker 2: the bank one more time and that by the time 467 00:26:04,561 --> 00:26:06,561 Speaker 2: she got back to the, road she could not See 468 00:26:06,681 --> 00:26:10,281 Speaker 2: christina or the. Car the little girl didn't know what 469 00:26:10,321 --> 00:26:13,161 Speaker 2: time this, was but her mother said they had only 470 00:26:13,241 --> 00:26:15,441 Speaker 2: gotten back to their house at around seven, pm so 471 00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:17,441 Speaker 2: it would have had to have been a little bit after. 472 00:26:17,481 --> 00:26:21,001 Speaker 2: That if that's, true then this little girl may have 473 00:26:21,041 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: been the last person in the case for at least 474 00:26:23,361 --> 00:26:34,241 Speaker 2: to have Seen christina. Alive Christina pipkin's math teacher also 475 00:26:34,321 --> 00:26:37,041 Speaker 2: said she Saw christina outside of the Bear cat grocery that, 476 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:43,201 Speaker 2: afternoon and she said That christina was. Barefoot this seems 477 00:26:43,281 --> 00:26:48,481 Speaker 2: to solve another mystery because remember we mentioned That christina's 478 00:26:48,521 --> 00:26:51,121 Speaker 2: mother said she was wearing white sandals on the day 479 00:26:51,121 --> 00:26:55,281 Speaker 2: she went, missing but her sandals were not found with her. 480 00:26:55,321 --> 00:26:58,721 Speaker 2: Body but it seems Like christina had already ditched her 481 00:26:58,761 --> 00:27:02,121 Speaker 2: sandals because she was walking around that parking lot, Barefoot 482 00:27:02,281 --> 00:27:04,601 Speaker 2: so it seems less likely that her killer took them 483 00:27:04,721 --> 00:27:06,921 Speaker 2: or that they slipped off during some kind of. STRUGGLE 484 00:27:07,681 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: i still, wonder, though where are the? Sandals but in my, 485 00:27:13,201 --> 00:27:15,761 Speaker 2: mind if she was, barefoot that means it's even less 486 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,401 Speaker 2: likely she would have made that over three mile walk 487 00:27:18,441 --> 00:27:23,761 Speaker 2: out to the area where she was. Found another name 488 00:27:23,801 --> 00:27:26,281 Speaker 2: that was mentioned in the case file early on Was 489 00:27:26,401 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: Charles Cotton. Junior Charles Cotton junior has a criminal, record 490 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,001 Speaker 2: including charges for leude acts against a. Child, Now Charles 491 00:27:36,001 --> 00:27:38,641 Speaker 2: cotton would later tell a journalist In, Juno, alaska where 492 00:27:38,641 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 2: he was, living that that was all, mistake that what 493 00:27:41,041 --> 00:27:43,801 Speaker 2: happened was a child had walked in on him and 494 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,241 Speaker 2: either his wife or girlfriend having sex on a, couch 495 00:27:46,681 --> 00:27:49,961 Speaker 2: that the whole thing was blown out of. Proportion that's 496 00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:51,961 Speaker 2: what a lot of sex offenders, say and the fact 497 00:27:52,001 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: of the matter Is Charles cotton did have a lengthy 498 00:27:54,241 --> 00:27:58,201 Speaker 2: criminal record at the time When christina went. Missing Charles 499 00:27:58,201 --> 00:28:01,801 Speaker 2: cotton was. Married according to his, Wife Rebecca, cotton who 500 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,241 Speaker 2: was twenty one years old at the, time the couple 501 00:28:04,321 --> 00:28:06,481 Speaker 2: was living a little bit out of, town but we've 502 00:28:06,481 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 2: also been told by people close To christina's family That 503 00:28:09,241 --> 00:28:12,201 Speaker 2: Charles cotton was living right next. Door we're still trying 504 00:28:12,241 --> 00:28:14,641 Speaker 2: to figure out his exact location and movements at the. 505 00:28:14,681 --> 00:28:18,721 Speaker 2: Time we do know That Charles cotton was introduced To christina's, Father, 506 00:28:18,881 --> 00:28:22,321 Speaker 2: james by their next door, Neighbor Pat, Moore so as 507 00:28:22,361 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 2: far AS i can, Tell Charles cotton did spend some 508 00:28:24,961 --> 00:28:28,881 Speaker 2: time at the. Moorhouse that could potentially be why some 509 00:28:28,921 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: people believe That charles was living next. Door these guys 510 00:28:33,641 --> 00:28:37,801 Speaker 2: all had completely different physical. Descriptions Robbie tubbs was white 511 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,241 Speaker 2: with tan skin and dark wavy hair that went down 512 00:28:40,281 --> 00:28:43,561 Speaker 2: toward his. Shoulders Charles cotton had blue eyes and blonde. 513 00:28:43,601 --> 00:28:46,961 Speaker 2: Hair we mentioned in the last episode that after hair 514 00:28:47,041 --> 00:28:49,681 Speaker 2: testing and the, trial the charges Against Robbie tubbs were. 515 00:28:49,721 --> 00:28:53,641 Speaker 2: Dropped he walked away a free. Man his last known 516 00:28:53,681 --> 00:28:56,041 Speaker 2: address is In Sulfur, Spring, texas. 517 00:28:56,001 --> 00:28:56,961 Speaker 3: But he's challenging to. 518 00:28:57,001 --> 00:29:01,041 Speaker 2: Find Charles cotton is much easier to. Find he's in 519 00:29:01,081 --> 00:29:05,881 Speaker 2: federal prison In Washington. State After christina's, Death Charles cotton 520 00:29:05,961 --> 00:29:08,721 Speaker 2: got into some more issues with the, law and eventually 521 00:29:08,921 --> 00:29:13,561 Speaker 2: he found. Love in twenty, Eleven charles reconnected with a 522 00:29:13,561 --> 00:29:16,721 Speaker 2: woman Named. Penny they actually grew up together and they 523 00:29:16,761 --> 00:29:19,201 Speaker 2: met while they were both students and went high school 524 00:29:19,201 --> 00:29:19,481 Speaker 2: back in the. 525 00:29:19,561 --> 00:29:21,161 Speaker 3: Day back. 526 00:29:21,201 --> 00:29:23,081 Speaker 2: Then they, dated but they broke up and they didn't 527 00:29:23,081 --> 00:29:26,241 Speaker 2: see each other for. Years this, time, though once they, 528 00:29:26,281 --> 00:29:30,241 Speaker 2: reconnected that relationship got. Serious they got married And penny 529 00:29:30,321 --> 00:29:34,681 Speaker 2: moved With charles To, Juneo, alaska but their fresh start 530 00:29:34,761 --> 00:29:38,881 Speaker 2: did not last. Long In, Juno Charles cotton started managing 531 00:29:38,881 --> 00:29:41,841 Speaker 2: a hotel called The Bergmann. Hotel it was a historic 532 00:29:41,881 --> 00:29:45,281 Speaker 2: structure that had become run down over the. Year in twenty, 533 00:29:45,321 --> 00:29:49,161 Speaker 2: sixteen he took that dilapidated building that had become a 534 00:29:49,201 --> 00:29:52,601 Speaker 2: hangout for people doing drugs and other illegal things and 535 00:29:52,641 --> 00:29:54,881 Speaker 2: said he was going to turn it. Around at one, 536 00:29:54,921 --> 00:29:57,401 Speaker 2: point he actually made local news as someone who had 537 00:29:57,441 --> 00:29:59,801 Speaker 2: a criminal record but was now a productive member of. 538 00:29:59,881 --> 00:30:04,521 Speaker 2: Society charles told The Juno empire during that, interview QUOTE 539 00:30:05,201 --> 00:30:07,521 Speaker 2: i come in and started getting the riff raph, out 540 00:30:07,761 --> 00:30:10,441 Speaker 2: started getting the thieves and the drugs. OUT i run 541 00:30:10,481 --> 00:30:12,041 Speaker 2: them the hell, off And i'd do it any day 542 00:30:12,041 --> 00:30:12,441 Speaker 2: of the week. 543 00:30:12,641 --> 00:30:12,721 Speaker 4: End. 544 00:30:12,801 --> 00:30:16,841 Speaker 2: Quote so in this, Article charles was described as this 545 00:30:16,961 --> 00:30:20,041 Speaker 2: recovering addict who was kind of running his own alternative 546 00:30:20,041 --> 00:30:23,601 Speaker 2: To narcanon Called. Choices so the idea of the program 547 00:30:23,721 --> 00:30:25,641 Speaker 2: was That charles would get the addicts to do work 548 00:30:25,641 --> 00:30:28,001 Speaker 2: on the crumbling building and they would get free room and. 549 00:30:28,001 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: Board but that good press did not last because the 550 00:30:32,001 --> 00:30:34,401 Speaker 2: city came in and they found a ton of problems without. 551 00:30:34,401 --> 00:30:37,561 Speaker 2: Building there were toxins in the, water exposed, wires and 552 00:30:37,641 --> 00:30:40,961 Speaker 2: apparently no heat or hot. Water they Slapped charles with a, 553 00:30:41,001 --> 00:30:43,721 Speaker 2: fine which he didn't. Pay at some point they condemned the. 554 00:30:43,801 --> 00:30:47,241 Speaker 2: Building the city evacuated, it But charles and his tenants 555 00:30:47,241 --> 00:30:50,201 Speaker 2: refused to. Leave it turned out that he was selling drugs. 556 00:30:50,201 --> 00:30:53,121 Speaker 2: Again at some, point he had relapsed and gone from 557 00:30:53,161 --> 00:30:56,241 Speaker 2: being a program for recovering addicts to a drug. Den 558 00:30:57,921 --> 00:31:01,161 Speaker 2: charles was hit with a string of charges for distributing, 559 00:31:01,201 --> 00:31:07,201 Speaker 2: methamphetamine and then On september twenty, seventh twenty, seventeen his, 560 00:31:07,281 --> 00:31:11,401 Speaker 2: Wife Penny, cotton was found dead in a hotel room In, Morris. 561 00:31:11,441 --> 00:31:18,641 Speaker 2: Alaska When Penny cotton was found, dead she had been 562 00:31:18,641 --> 00:31:21,641 Speaker 2: shot in the. Head her death was ruled a, suicide 563 00:31:21,801 --> 00:31:24,321 Speaker 2: but her family back In arkansas told reporters at The 564 00:31:24,361 --> 00:31:26,841 Speaker 2: Mid south they did not believe That penny would take 565 00:31:26,841 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: her own. Life the medical examiner did not order an, 566 00:31:30,201 --> 00:31:33,801 Speaker 2: autopsy But penny's family got some photos and they shared 567 00:31:33,801 --> 00:31:37,961 Speaker 2: those photos Of penny's body with local. Media these photos 568 00:31:38,001 --> 00:31:40,681 Speaker 2: apparently Showed penny had been shot in the left side 569 00:31:40,721 --> 00:31:44,121 Speaker 2: of the, head But penny's family pointed out she's right, 570 00:31:44,161 --> 00:31:48,681 Speaker 2: handed so to them that seemed to be. Impossible in twenty, 571 00:31:48,761 --> 00:31:52,761 Speaker 2: Seventeen charles was hit with charges of distributing methamphetamine and 572 00:31:52,841 --> 00:31:57,001 Speaker 2: was arrested by THE. Fbi in twenty, Nineteen Charles Cotton 573 00:31:57,041 --> 00:32:00,681 Speaker 2: junior and his, Son ricky Staple lisk were both sentenced 574 00:32:00,681 --> 00:32:04,241 Speaker 2: for drug. Charges charles got ten years in, Prison ricky got, 575 00:32:04,241 --> 00:32:07,881 Speaker 2: five And charles is in prison. Today there was a 576 00:32:07,921 --> 00:32:11,481 Speaker 2: comment On penny's. Obituary it referred to her as being 577 00:32:11,561 --> 00:32:14,761 Speaker 2: gangster and to her Helping charles with his. Business and 578 00:32:14,801 --> 00:32:16,601 Speaker 2: it was written by someone who had been in that 579 00:32:16,641 --> 00:32:20,161 Speaker 2: building With penny And, charles so Obviously penny knew a 580 00:32:20,241 --> 00:32:23,041 Speaker 2: lot about What charles was getting up. To could this 581 00:32:23,121 --> 00:32:26,881 Speaker 2: have motivated someone connected to him to take her? Life 582 00:32:27,041 --> 00:32:29,601 Speaker 2: Charles Cotton junior may have been involved in other legal, 583 00:32:29,601 --> 00:32:34,641 Speaker 2: activities but what About Christina. Pipkin let's look At Charles 584 00:32:34,641 --> 00:32:39,921 Speaker 2: cotton's connection to The pipkin. Family James pipkin told investigators 585 00:32:39,921 --> 00:32:42,881 Speaker 2: that he was introduced To Charles cotton through his Neighbor Pat, 586 00:32:42,881 --> 00:32:46,761 Speaker 2: moore but that Before christina went, missing he had never 587 00:32:46,801 --> 00:32:50,481 Speaker 2: seen or spoken To charles in his. Life Charles cotton 588 00:32:50,561 --> 00:32:54,321 Speaker 2: said that on the Day christina, disappeared he was fishing 589 00:32:54,361 --> 00:32:56,281 Speaker 2: with a friend of his from around one thirty to 590 00:32:56,321 --> 00:32:59,281 Speaker 2: five thirty at an area Called Bird eye Near Cherry, 591 00:32:59,361 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: valley a small town a few miles From Hickory. Ridge 592 00:33:02,721 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: Apparently charles did stop by The bearcat grocery store at 593 00:33:05,961 --> 00:33:08,841 Speaker 2: some point On. Saturday, now he said he didn't remember doing, 594 00:33:08,841 --> 00:33:11,321 Speaker 2: that but a friend of his saw him there and 595 00:33:11,441 --> 00:33:15,121 Speaker 2: he mentions that in his discussion with, investigators he said 596 00:33:15,121 --> 00:33:17,921 Speaker 2: that after he was finished, fishing he went home and 597 00:33:17,961 --> 00:33:20,281 Speaker 2: WATCHED tv with his, Wife, rebecca and the rest of his. 598 00:33:20,321 --> 00:33:24,081 Speaker 2: Family at around ten, thirty he, said a friend of his, 599 00:33:24,161 --> 00:33:26,721 Speaker 2: Name Neil, long came by and asked if anyone had 600 00:33:26,721 --> 00:33:30,081 Speaker 2: Seen Christina. Pipkin that's when he said he found Out 601 00:33:30,121 --> 00:33:33,321 Speaker 2: christine was. Missing charles said at that point he went 602 00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:36,321 Speaker 2: out and borrowed a friend's three wheeler and started searching for. 603 00:33:36,321 --> 00:33:39,921 Speaker 2: Her by the, Way charles drove a seventy four light 604 00:33:40,001 --> 00:33:42,521 Speaker 2: Blue Dodge charger at the, time yet another blue. 605 00:33:42,521 --> 00:33:44,401 Speaker 3: CAR i have. 606 00:33:44,441 --> 00:33:47,721 Speaker 2: Questions About Charles, cotton mainly because reading through this case, 607 00:33:47,761 --> 00:33:50,401 Speaker 2: file it seems like he was inserting himself into the 608 00:33:50,481 --> 00:33:54,801 Speaker 2: investigation a. Lot we know From James pipkin's statement That 609 00:33:54,881 --> 00:33:57,761 Speaker 2: charles was very involved in the search For. Christina he 610 00:33:57,841 --> 00:34:02,401 Speaker 2: kept looking constantly until she was. Found, Apparently charles even 611 00:34:02,441 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: borrowed two hundred and twenty five dollars From James. Pipkin 612 00:34:05,801 --> 00:34:07,841 Speaker 2: he claimed he had to pay a fine because he 613 00:34:07,881 --> 00:34:09,401 Speaker 2: hadn't had time to go pay. It he had been 614 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,081 Speaker 2: out looking For christina and missed his. Chance So James 615 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 2: pipkin felt sorry for him and gave him the, money, 616 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,241 Speaker 2: which of Course James pipkin never got. Back, now this 617 00:34:18,281 --> 00:34:21,361 Speaker 2: could have been totally. Innocuous this was a big. Story 618 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,361 Speaker 2: this is a local. Girl but The pipkin family had 619 00:34:24,401 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: only lived In Hickory ridge for about four months at that. 620 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 2: Point Charles cotton and some other people seemed to be 621 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: getting very close to the family in that. TIME i 622 00:34:34,241 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 2: wondered about, this And amy AND i made a few more. 623 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,841 Speaker 2: Stops we were looking for old newspapers and we found 624 00:34:40,841 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: one from the week When christina's body was. Found we 625 00:34:44,121 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 2: were shocked when we Saw christina's obituary and there was 626 00:34:47,121 --> 00:34:48,081 Speaker 2: a detail. 627 00:34:47,761 --> 00:34:50,281 Speaker 3: That had not been online the names of. 628 00:34:50,361 --> 00:34:55,601 Speaker 2: Pallbearers and one of those pallbearers At christina's funeral Was Charles. 629 00:34:55,641 --> 00:35:00,681 Speaker 2: Cotton this seems very odd to. Me, again could be totally, 630 00:35:00,721 --> 00:35:03,801 Speaker 2: innocent could be just someone doing a kindness for a. 631 00:35:03,801 --> 00:35:06,641 Speaker 2: Neighbor but why would someone who didn't Know james at 632 00:35:06,641 --> 00:35:09,281 Speaker 2: all suddenly be super involved in the, search then borrow 633 00:35:09,361 --> 00:35:12,041 Speaker 2: money From, james and then show up as a. Pallbearer, 634 00:35:13,721 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: again though that's all, circumstantial we have to go back 635 00:35:17,041 --> 00:35:19,721 Speaker 2: to the place and time Where christina was last seen 636 00:35:20,601 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 2: in and around the Bear Cat grocery store in The 637 00:35:23,001 --> 00:35:28,161 Speaker 2: bank parking. Lot even though there are a lot of disparate, 638 00:35:28,241 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 2: reports actually what we're finding out is That christina went 639 00:35:31,481 --> 00:35:34,761 Speaker 2: missing in a pretty small window of, time and we 640 00:35:34,841 --> 00:35:37,041 Speaker 2: see something else in the case file that could potentially 641 00:35:37,081 --> 00:35:40,761 Speaker 2: help police talk to the four people who were working 642 00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:44,201 Speaker 2: inside the Bear Cat grocery store that. Day, now three 643 00:35:44,201 --> 00:35:46,921 Speaker 2: of the employees that either left or were otherwise occupied 644 00:35:47,001 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 2: When christina was, around but one, person the, cashier got 645 00:35:51,121 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 2: a very good look at a, stranger someone who came 646 00:35:54,121 --> 00:35:57,521 Speaker 2: into the store at around the same time As christina was, 647 00:35:57,561 --> 00:36:01,841 Speaker 2: there someone who she said no one in the store. 648 00:36:01,881 --> 00:36:05,841 Speaker 2: RECOGNIZED i wanted to find this cashier because in the 649 00:36:05,921 --> 00:36:09,241 Speaker 2: whole case, file she was the only one who had 650 00:36:09,281 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: a definite and good description of a potential, suspect who 651 00:36:13,001 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 2: had been close to the unknown stranger and actually seen 652 00:36:16,401 --> 00:36:19,761 Speaker 2: a detailed view of their. FACE i will not say 653 00:36:19,801 --> 00:36:21,761 Speaker 2: exactly how we did, it AND i won't use her 654 00:36:21,841 --> 00:36:24,361 Speaker 2: name BECAUSE i know that this person is very. Nervous 655 00:36:25,081 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 2: but we found, her And i'm putting this information out 656 00:36:29,561 --> 00:36:33,281 Speaker 2: there because number, one this case file is. Public these 657 00:36:33,361 --> 00:36:36,641 Speaker 2: names are part of the public record and, also most, 658 00:36:36,641 --> 00:36:39,601 Speaker 2: IMPORTANTLY i believe this information is critical to solving this. 659 00:36:39,721 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 2: Case we asked the cashier about what she had seen 660 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,401 Speaker 2: that day before we showed her her police statement by the, 661 00:36:47,401 --> 00:36:51,801 Speaker 2: way which she'd never. Seen in her, statement the cashier 662 00:36:51,841 --> 00:36:54,121 Speaker 2: said she was working at The bearcat grocery store On, 663 00:36:54,201 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: Saturday may, fourth nineteen ninety. One she, said at about 664 00:36:57,721 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 2: five forty five, pm an, individual a, stranger came in 665 00:37:02,041 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 2: and bought some. Cigarettes in her statement to, police the 666 00:37:05,561 --> 00:37:08,761 Speaker 2: officer who interviewed the cashier noted she said that the 667 00:37:08,801 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: stranger drove a mid or late seventies Model oldsmobile four 668 00:37:12,641 --> 00:37:15,921 Speaker 2: door and it looked blue gray in. Color in a, 669 00:37:16,001 --> 00:37:19,361 Speaker 2: statement she, said the stranger pulled in heading. North the 670 00:37:19,361 --> 00:37:22,561 Speaker 2: statement reads, quote she saw him on the sidewalk looking 671 00:37:22,601 --> 00:37:24,681 Speaker 2: north and south and making A u turn and went 672 00:37:24,721 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 2: south end. Quote the statement described the stranger as a white, 673 00:37:28,521 --> 00:37:31,161 Speaker 2: male mid, thirties five foot nine and around one hundred 674 00:37:31,161 --> 00:37:34,561 Speaker 2: and forty five, pounds hair dark, brown almost reddish in, 675 00:37:34,561 --> 00:37:39,281 Speaker 2: color clean, hair almost shoulder, length not, curly almost. Straight 676 00:37:40,001 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 2: she further stated he had a mustache and that his 677 00:37:42,601 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 2: hair was cupped around as, face which was. Thin she 678 00:37:46,081 --> 00:37:48,881 Speaker 2: said he wasn't wearing glasses or a. Hat he had 679 00:37:48,921 --> 00:37:51,681 Speaker 2: on older jeans and Bell crow type tennis shoes with 680 00:37:51,761 --> 00:37:54,401 Speaker 2: a GRAY t shirt underneath an older shirt that was short. 681 00:37:54,401 --> 00:37:59,001 Speaker 2: Sleeved she said no tattoos were. Visible in her, statement 682 00:37:59,041 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: she said the, stranger who was white but had tan, 683 00:38:01,601 --> 00:38:05,881 Speaker 2: skin looked Like Richard, gear that he bought cigarettes and, 684 00:38:05,921 --> 00:38:09,601 Speaker 2: left and that he stared at. Her the police report 685 00:38:09,721 --> 00:38:12,321 Speaker 2: was very, brief but when we talked to the, cashier 686 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: she gave us a lot of details that were not 687 00:38:14,601 --> 00:38:18,201 Speaker 2: in the police. Report, again it's important to note that 688 00:38:18,281 --> 00:38:21,201 Speaker 2: we asked her about her memories before we showed her 689 00:38:21,521 --> 00:38:21,921 Speaker 2: her own. 690 00:38:21,921 --> 00:38:24,721 Speaker 3: Statement most of. 691 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 2: The police statement match which she told, us but there 692 00:38:27,121 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 2: were some very important. Differences first of, all she said 693 00:38:31,241 --> 00:38:33,161 Speaker 2: she got a very good look at the stranger's, car 694 00:38:33,281 --> 00:38:36,401 Speaker 2: and she emphatically said it was brown or tan in, 695 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,361 Speaker 2: color not. Blue, also when you read the police, report 696 00:38:39,401 --> 00:38:41,321 Speaker 2: it kind of makes it sound like the stranger was 697 00:38:41,361 --> 00:38:44,921 Speaker 2: standing on the. Sidewalk she clarified what she. Meant she 698 00:38:45,041 --> 00:38:47,361 Speaker 2: said he pulled his car all the way up on the. 699 00:38:47,401 --> 00:38:50,721 Speaker 2: Sidewalk in, fact he pulled it so far up that 700 00:38:50,801 --> 00:38:52,601 Speaker 2: he had to get out on the passenger, side and 701 00:38:52,641 --> 00:38:54,761 Speaker 2: she remembers looking out the window at that car because 702 00:38:54,761 --> 00:38:58,081 Speaker 2: that was. Annoying she described the car as, dirty but 703 00:38:58,241 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: definitely brown or. Tan and she clarified when she said 704 00:39:01,161 --> 00:39:04,281 Speaker 2: the stranger looked Like Richard, gear she was really talking 705 00:39:04,281 --> 00:39:06,401 Speaker 2: about the distinctive nose shape and. 706 00:39:06,521 --> 00:39:07,881 Speaker 1: Eyes she. 707 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,601 Speaker 2: Said the stranger walked into the store and Bought marlbora 708 00:39:10,681 --> 00:39:13,801 Speaker 2: reds in the hard. Pack then he asked if she 709 00:39:13,841 --> 00:39:16,601 Speaker 2: had some. Matches she, said, yes, sir we, do and 710 00:39:16,681 --> 00:39:19,281 Speaker 2: gave him some of the freebie. Matches then he, left 711 00:39:19,841 --> 00:39:21,801 Speaker 2: and because he had parked so close to the building 712 00:39:21,881 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 2: up on that, sidewalk he had to get in through 713 00:39:24,041 --> 00:39:25,921 Speaker 2: the passenger side of the car and shift over to 714 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 2: the driver's. Side she said he was. Alone he drove 715 00:39:29,041 --> 00:39:35,001 Speaker 2: away and she never saw him. Again the next page 716 00:39:35,041 --> 00:39:38,321 Speaker 2: after the cashier's statement in the case file is a 717 00:39:38,401 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 2: page that explains that a sketch artist met with. Her 718 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 2: they developed a composite, photo and that the comp leaded 719 00:39:44,121 --> 00:39:47,201 Speaker 2: composite would be made part of the case. File but 720 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,841 Speaker 2: the photo copy of the composite drawing is not there 721 00:39:52,001 --> 00:39:52,841 Speaker 2: as far AS i can. 722 00:39:52,881 --> 00:39:53,801 Speaker 3: TELL i don't know if the. 723 00:39:53,721 --> 00:39:56,841 Speaker 2: Police just aren't including, it or if it's not in 724 00:39:56,881 --> 00:40:00,321 Speaker 2: the case file at all. ANYMORE i asked the cashier about, 725 00:40:00,321 --> 00:40:04,801 Speaker 2: it and she remembered that image very. Clearly she said 726 00:40:04,841 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 2: she might still have a copy and said she would 727 00:40:07,001 --> 00:40:10,361 Speaker 2: go home to look in her. Safe then she texted 728 00:40:10,401 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 2: me and said she found. It she had the original composite. 729 00:40:14,041 --> 00:40:17,001 Speaker 2: Photo it had been sitting in her safe for over thirty. 730 00:40:17,081 --> 00:40:20,921 Speaker 2: Years we showed her some pictures of the people who 731 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,361 Speaker 2: were mentioned by police back in the, day Including Charles, 732 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,721 Speaker 2: cotton but she says that was not the stranger she waited. 733 00:40:27,721 --> 00:40:32,281 Speaker 2: On Then amy shows her an old picture Of Robbie, 734 00:40:32,281 --> 00:40:39,721 Speaker 2: tubbs her father in. Law the cashier, blinked looked, shocked and, 735 00:40:39,841 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 2: said who is? 736 00:40:41,121 --> 00:40:42,361 Speaker 3: This how did you get? 737 00:40:42,361 --> 00:40:45,601 Speaker 2: This we asked her if she believed that was the 738 00:40:45,601 --> 00:40:49,521 Speaker 2: man she saw in the Bear cat that. Day, later 739 00:40:49,681 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: we texted her a couple more pictures from that. Era 740 00:40:53,321 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 2: she texted me, BACK i got cold. CHILLS i think 741 00:40:57,161 --> 00:40:58,881 Speaker 2: this is the man who was in the store that. 742 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:04,281 Speaker 2: DAY i know that IDs are not definitive proof of. 743 00:41:04,321 --> 00:41:09,681 Speaker 2: Anything often people are, wrong and even If Robbie tubbs 744 00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:12,121 Speaker 2: was in town that, day that does not mean he 745 00:41:12,201 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 2: had anything to do With christina's. Death BUT i do 746 00:41:16,281 --> 00:41:19,561 Speaker 2: find it interesting that the description of the car was 747 00:41:19,601 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 2: different from the one in the case, file and that 748 00:41:22,121 --> 00:41:25,401 Speaker 2: the cashier seems so haunted by looking at the image 749 00:41:25,401 --> 00:41:28,201 Speaker 2: Of Robbie tubbs next to that drawing she has had 750 00:41:28,201 --> 00:41:31,721 Speaker 2: in her safe for the past thirty. YEARS i know 751 00:41:32,281 --> 00:41:35,801 Speaker 2: positive ideas are not definitive, proof but it means we 752 00:41:35,881 --> 00:41:41,001 Speaker 2: need to keep. Digging I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen 753 00:41:41,041 --> 00:41:45,601 Speaker 2: Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a production 754 00:41:45,641 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 2: Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and 755 00:41:48,521 --> 00:41:51,681 Speaker 2: narrated by, Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. Watts 756 00:41:52,801 --> 00:41:56,321 Speaker 2: music contributed By ben So, lee executive producers Of Virginia, 757 00:41:56,361 --> 00:41:57,961 Speaker 2: Prescott Brandon barr And Helsei. 758 00:41:58,041 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 3: Crowley if you have a case you'd like. 759 00:42:00,481 --> 00:42:02,641 Speaker 2: Me and my team to look, into you can reach 760 00:42:02,681 --> 00:42:04,921 Speaker 2: out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at 761 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four. Five 762 00:42:09,121 --> 00:42:12,401 Speaker 2: that's six seven eight seven four four six' one. 763 00:42:12,481 --> 00:42:14,641 Speaker 3: Four five please. 764 00:42:14,321 --> 00:42:17,161 Speaker 2: Subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to. 765 00:42:17,241 --> 00:42:21,721 Speaker 2: Your podcasts 766 00:42:26,761 --> 00:42:28,601 Speaker 1: School of humans