Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3: dot com. Let's get over to anti Semitism. Man, so
Speaker 3: much going on here. So, I this may be a
Speaker 3: crazy thing to say, I think that the Douglas Murray
Speaker 3: debate was a real moment for the discourse around the
Speaker 3: Israel war with Gaza, because I think when it really showed.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, here's the thing about Douglas Murray.
Speaker 3: This is somebody you know, as we know, who has
Speaker 3: really been held up as like this intellectual explainer of
Speaker 3: like global forces of MAGA, and he's been of course
Speaker 3: a big defender of Israel but I think what really
Speaker 3: showed people, you know, the bubble that he was in
Speaker 3: whenever it came to arguing on Israel's behalf and resorting
Speaker 3: to these ridiculous attacks like you've never even been to Israel.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to attempt the accent like Rogan and others,
Speaker 3: and to just see how sensitive and gatekeepings and storious
Speaker 3: and just broadly like, you know, just just relying on
Speaker 3: the worst style of argumentation to ultimately what I think
Speaker 3: is to defend the indefensible, really broke through. It has
Speaker 3: shown people both the weakness of like the pro Israel
Speaker 3: position I think in the US, but it's also invited
Speaker 3: now a full scale attack of even more censorship by
Speaker 3: some of these folks who actually owe you know, a
Speaker 3: lot of their prominence to the dissident Internet, to people
Speaker 3: like Rogan or the podcast space, and now find themselves
Speaker 3: on the other side.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, no, no, no, we need to listen to
Speaker 1: the experts.
Speaker 3: So that's all of the context for what leads up
Speaker 3: to this extraordinary moment of Jordan Peterson coming to Joe
Speaker 3: Rogan's show and again resorting to Murray style tactics where
Speaker 3: he starts to interrogate Joe about where do you draw
Speaker 3: the line on the type of people that you come on,
Speaker 3: and then trying to you know, basically, you know, dress
Speaker 3: up gatekeeping and censorship in the guise of psychology and psychothropy,
Speaker 3: of which he is allegedly an expert.
Speaker 1: So let's take a listen.
Speaker 4: With all of that said, you also.
Speaker 5: Set that conversation up, but it poked up and made
Speaker 5: itself manifest in that conversation. And the issue is how
Speaker 5: do you identify the psychopathic pretenders? And it's even worse
Speaker 5: now and then make a barrier right now. The right
Speaker 5: was calling for the left to do that for decades
Speaker 5: and they didn't and they couldn't. And the left is
Speaker 5: not good at drawing barriers, partly temperamentally. The right is
Speaker 5: somewhat better, but there's no shortage of monstrosity there and
Speaker 5: and so then the question is how do you how
Speaker 5: do you draw the line? And that's kind of what
Speaker 5: I was because I've been watching these right wing they're
Speaker 5: not right wing. These psychopathic types manipulate the edge of
Speaker 5: the conservative movement for their own gain, and a lot
Speaker 5: of that's cloaked and antisemitic guys. There's plenty of anti
Speaker 5: semitism on the left too, by the way, So it's
Speaker 5: not unique to the.
Speaker 4: Right partly now, yes, yes, yes, particularly now.
Speaker 5: And so you know, you've let your curiosity guide you,
Speaker 5: your curiosity and your desire for knowledge, this quest you've
Speaker 5: you've let that guide you as a podcaster. And I'm,
Speaker 5: by the way, I'm trying to work through exactly the
Speaker 5: same sort of thing. How do you know, given your
Speaker 5: rap radical increase in stature over the last ten years,
Speaker 5: how do you know when your curiosity and even your
Speaker 5: skepticism about the fact that things aren't the way that
Speaker 5: people say they are, because that's certainly been demonstrated in
Speaker 5: the last ten years.
Speaker 4: How do you how.
Speaker 5: Should anyone decide what guardrails to put up? Like what
Speaker 5: do you look for? Do you have a conceptual system
Speaker 5: worked out for that?
Speaker 1: Like it's so obvious what's happening here, Crystal. They can't.
Speaker 3: It's like they have to construct these monsters that don't
Speaker 3: even exist without arguing with the people that are in
Speaker 3: front of them, like Dave Smith, who very cogently and
Speaker 3: calmly dismantles Douglas Murray's every single propagandistic attempt to justify
Speaker 3: the US support for Israel and broadly also, they're relying
Speaker 3: now on the very tactics that they that they denigrated
Speaker 3: whenever it was about racism or gen I mean, can
Speaker 3: you imagine, you know, Jordan Peterson being like or Douglas
Speaker 3: in some sort of great defense of the biologists who're
Speaker 3: talking about transgend It's preposterous, preposterous, And yet they resort
Speaker 3: to the very same tactics now whenever it's an issue
Speaker 3: which they see they're literally fighting and their clawing, I think,
Speaker 3: to maintain you know, this facade and this support. But
Speaker 3: I mean the Internet and these laws and especially this
Speaker 3: style of discussion, they just fall apart. And it's at
Speaker 3: least nice to see Joe pretty skeptical, I think, especially
Speaker 3: in Murray's case and other and others really who have noticed,
Speaker 3: you know, this reversion from like free speech to censorship on.
Speaker 1: The film of a dime.
Speaker 3: You know, we're talking only eighteen months after a decade
Speaker 3: of preaching the opposite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the TLDR here with Jordan Peterson and
Speaker 2: all of his semi incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, which is such
Speaker 2: a freakin' pet peeve of mine. Like way through, Like
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you even really saying right now?
Speaker 2: Just like come out and say, just come out and say,
Speaker 2: like I don't like that you had Ian Carroll on
Speaker 2: or whatever your beef is, and then we can actually
Speaker 2: deal with it. That irritates the shit out of me. Okay.
Speaker 2: So if you wade through all of that, what you
Speaker 2: can see going on in the right with the pro
Speaker 2: Israel crowd is that they have lost the debate. They've
Speaker 2: lost the public debate. Public support for their genocidal stance
Speaker 2: has collapsed. The only people who still are more sympathetic
Speaker 2: to Israel than to the Palestinians are like older Republicans.
Speaker 2: Every other demographic has moved away from them. And so
Speaker 2: when you've lost the debate, what do you have to do?
Speaker 2: You have to say, we can't even have this conversation.
Speaker 2: And that's to your point about the Douglas Murray piece,
Speaker 2: that really is what came out there. He is supposed
Speaker 2: to be the best of the best in terms of
Speaker 2: defending the ultra Zionist position, and if even he's forced
Speaker 2: to just resort to will have you been there? Then
Speaker 2: you know they have no real arguments. And the thing
Speaker 2: is like number one, When Jordan Peterson is accusing people
Speaker 2: of being psychopaths in defense of a policy that is
Speaker 2: genuinely psychopathic, which has involved the slaughter of innocent men, women, children,
Speaker 2: the complete destruction of all of Gaza, the starving and
Speaker 2: complete siege of Gasa, then you know you can see
Speaker 2: through the holiness of his arguments here. And then the
Speaker 2: other thing that I would say is, like, what makes
Speaker 2: it more complicated for me is if you take that
Speaker 2: context down, there's not nothing to what he's saying, Because
Speaker 2: I do think there is this posture in a lot
Speaker 2: of the like quote unquote independent media of you know,
Speaker 2: we're gonna not only platform someone, but we're going to
Speaker 2: sort of just give them unquestioning free range. And but
Speaker 2: that isn't just these quote unquote fringe voices. That's people
Speaker 2: like when Rogan had Andresen on and just lets them
Speaker 2: lie and make up bullshit about the CFPB, when he
Speaker 2: had Trump on and let Trump be, oh, yeah, the
Speaker 2: election was stolen and say all kinds of like ridiculous
Speaker 2: things with absolutely no pushback whatsoever. Ewhen Zuckerberg was on
Speaker 2: same sort of situation. So I do think there's a
Speaker 2: conversation to be had about not just who are you
Speaker 2: having on, but how are we approaching this? You know,
Speaker 2: are you just letting people use you for their own
Speaker 2: propaganda victories or is there some sort of intelligent pushback
Speaker 2: that is making people that is helping to clarify rather
Speaker 2: than cloud the situation. And I also want to say, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there is a rise in anti Semitism, I think it's
Speaker 2: oftentimes put in the wrong direction in terms of like,
Speaker 2: it's entirely predictable that if we're relentlessly told all Jewish
Speaker 2: people have to be are associated with this state of
Speaker 2: Israel that is committing a genocide that we're all watching
Speaker 2: unfold in real time, you know that it is going
Speaker 2: to generate increased anti Semitism. That's still abhorrent, it still
Speaker 2: should be condemned, but it is a real problem. But
Speaker 2: obviously Jordan Peterson doesn't want to talk about or deal
Speaker 2: with any of that. So the end result or what
Speaker 2: his goal for the end result to be here is
Speaker 2: just we shouldn't really be talking about this issue because
Speaker 2: there is no real defense if you're actually dealing with
Speaker 2: the facts of what we've all watched on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, let's put Dave actually just had such
Speaker 3: a good retort. Let's put this up there on the screen, please,
Speaker 3: He says, I've always admired many things.
Speaker 1: About Jordan Peterson.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's get that out of the way.
Speaker 3: I was a bit surprised at his take on keeping
Speaker 3: quote psychopaths away. Now I'm just a non expert comic
Speaker 3: who's never been, but it seems sloppy for a clinical
Speaker 3: psychologist to throw out a mass diagnosis like this. He
Speaker 3: mentioned Groeper's as falling into this category. I certainly have
Speaker 3: my issues. I can count on their leader to trash
Speaker 3: me anytime, making waves. But he continues. He says, if
Speaker 3: we are truly interested in calling out psychothapy, why not
Speaker 3: start with the people dropping bombs on babies and advocating more.
Speaker 3: How about the people about signing bombs that are on
Speaker 3: their way out to do that. How about the people
Speaker 3: who advocated for the last five catastrophic wars, and despite
Speaker 3: being wrong about all of them, are advocating for the next.
Speaker 3: Why not have one standard and apply it across the board.
Speaker 3: And actually, to even return to something you were saying
Speaker 3: about this whole life, just letting people talk, well, I
Speaker 3: think what that drives them crazy? Peterson, Murray and these
Speaker 3: others is that for years what they have said always
Speaker 3: so great, you know, being able to talk, no push
Speaker 3: back and all that I don't disagree with, you should
Speaker 3: have pushed back against powerful people. What they are upset
Speaker 3: about is that you're allowing that standard for people like
Speaker 3: Dave Smith and Ian Carroll or I don't know, Kurt Metzger,
Speaker 3: you know on some other voices that have been critical
Speaker 3: of Israel. That's what drives them nuts, is that they
Speaker 3: are getting that those people are getting to talk as
Speaker 3: freely as them. That's what they can't stand and that's
Speaker 3: really what they're advocating for. And Glenn made such a
Speaker 3: good point too. Let's put his tweet please up on
Speaker 3: the screen. He says, how come you know Remaiah oz Turk,
Speaker 3: a Forig national in the US, legally is in prison
Speaker 3: for having written an op ed critical of Israel, but
Speaker 3: Jordan Peterson, a foreign national in the US, also here present,
Speaker 3: legally is free to praise Israel and call Americans who
Speaker 3: oppose it psychopaths, and somebody like Douglas Murray. Glenn continues,
Speaker 3: I kept hearing from those who were defending the rounding
Speaker 3: up these students for the crime of critics in Israel.
Speaker 3: The guests in our countries should keep their mouths shut
Speaker 3: and not criticize our government. But it doesn't really seem
Speaker 3: like this principle is consistently applied at all.
Speaker 1: And he's exactly right.
Speaker 3: You know, if we want to get truly national about
Speaker 3: nationalist about it, why is this Canadian interloper coming to
Speaker 3: our country to lecture our population about our support.
Speaker 1: For a foreign government.
Speaker 3: It makes no sense, all right, And it's one also
Speaker 3: which collapses under the weight, as you said, also of
Speaker 3: this all this dressed up bullshit, just say, hey, Joe,
Speaker 3: stop having on people who are critical of Israel their psychopaths,
Speaker 3: and now we can have a conversation. Now we could
Speaker 3: have an interesting conversation. And there was actually a very
Speaker 3: pregnant pause whenever I think Peterson was talking about people
Speaker 3: living in hell, and Rogan is like, yeah, like maybe
Speaker 3: if you live in Gaza right now, and he just pause.
Speaker 1: Has to skate right by it, right, Wow.
Speaker 3: And these all speak, you know, they speak much louder
Speaker 3: than any of the other dressed up stuff around this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, and here's the other context. Is
Speaker 2: the way that this government this administration is weaponizing every
Speaker 2: part of it, whether it's HHS, whether it's the Department
Speaker 2: of Education, whether it's ICE, to make sure that the
Speaker 2: line is enforced on this issue. And so, I mean,
Speaker 2: the answer to Glenn's question is obvious, Like, none of
Speaker 2: these people actually cared about censorship. None of these people
Speaker 2: actually cared about free speech. The people who are out
Speaker 2: there defending mockmood Khalil being locked up or Oster being
Speaker 2: locked up for her op ed or whatever, the reason
Speaker 2: they defend it is because they just don't want those
Speaker 2: viewpoints out there. There's no consistent standard here. And so
Speaker 2: the very people who gained so much fame and stature
Speaker 2: for being anti woke and anti cancel culture and anti
Speaker 2: censorship and I'm a free speech bro blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: very few of them have anything to say about a
Speaker 2: truly authoritarian crackdown on dissent when it comes to Israel.
Speaker 2: And that crackdown, by the way, does not just stay
Speaker 2: within the confines of that one debate.
Speaker 1: Either.
Speaker 2: We know the way that the Department of Justice is
Speaker 2: classifying any sort of like anti Tesla actions as domestic terror.
Speaker 2: We know the way that Seb Gorka is also classifying
Speaker 2: even hands off protesters, and you know, anyone who effectively
Speaker 2: opposes this administration as being potential domestic terrorists or aiding
Speaker 2: and embedding terrorists. People who oppose these outrageous deep ortations
Speaker 2: with no due process, He says, they could be providing
Speaker 2: material aid to terrorists. So you know, this is what
Speaker 2: I think you and I have tried to be consistent
Speaker 2: about warning about is when you have this sort of
Speaker 2: authoritarian instinct, even if it isn't a direction of policy
Speaker 2: that you support or whatever, there is a vast potential
Speaker 2: and almost certainty that is going to creep and creep
Speaker 2: and creep and lead to increasing authoritarian crackdown. And this
Speaker 2: administration has taken it to a level that I don't
Speaker 2: know when is the last time we've seen in American history.
Speaker 3: Let's put D four up on the screen, just to
Speaker 3: give a good example, right, like, this is something out
Speaker 3: of an Ibrahem candy book quote. And this is again
Speaker 3: flagged by Glenn Under new guidelines were released by the
Speaker 3: National Institute of Health. Any medical researchers will have all
Speaker 3: funds terminated if they support a boycott of Israel. They
Speaker 3: can even support a boycott of any other country and
Speaker 3: even other US states, just not israel I.
Speaker 1: Mean it says it right there.
Speaker 3: By accepting this grant award, recipients are certifying they do
Speaker 3: not engage in, and will not, during the term of
Speaker 3: their award engage in discriminary prohibited boycott, and that specifically
Speaker 3: relates to Israeli. Come, and we're talking here about BBS.
Speaker 3: This is a nationally enshrined BDS law, a law which
Speaker 3: will go into effect by this administration for bi millions
Speaker 3: of dollars in science research, which has.
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with any of this.
Speaker 3: And by the way, even if it did, it wouldn't matter,
Speaker 3: and it would still be against you, against the First Amendment.
Speaker 3: I really hope that they take these people all the
Speaker 3: way to the Supreme Court and strike this bullshit down.
Speaker 3: And then finally, what I really want to show people too,
Speaker 3: is this last part. I've been laughing about this for
Speaker 3: twenty four hours. Now, let's put this up there on
Speaker 3: the screen. This is the level of where we're at now.
Speaker 3: The New York Post quote American Jews faced a record
Speaker 3: twenty five anti Semitic incidents per day last year quote,
Speaker 3: more than one per hour, with most related to hatred
Speaker 3: of Israel. So these people, this is the ADL is
Speaker 3: genuinely claiming that American Jews are experiencing anti Semitism more
Speaker 3: than once per hour. And I want to outline why
Speaker 3: this stuff really matters even for someone like me, so
Speaker 3: like for people who are my age in particular, grew
Speaker 3: up in the nineties of grew up before this, like
Speaker 3: pre awokening era. One of the things that really turned
Speaker 3: people culturally, and especially a lot of young guys, is
Speaker 3: exactly this type of bullshit. I'll never forget, you know,
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone magazine, complete fake story.
Speaker 1: All I remember at the.
Speaker 3: Time, they're like nine out of ten women they are
Speaker 3: getting raped on college campuses.
Speaker 1: People were like, what, what are you even talking about?
Speaker 3: But you know, this is the equivocation of exactly that,
Speaker 3: And they're taking that woke style issue and just making
Speaker 3: up statistics in the same way that the worst BLM
Speaker 3: activists would and then publishing it as fact and then
Speaker 3: passing it around, you know, to create this victim complex.
Speaker 3: And as they even note in their report, Crystal, all
Speaker 3: the things that they quote are anti Semitic are just
Speaker 3: criticisms of Israel and of a foreign government that's anti Semitism.
Speaker 3: So then this whole thing is And by the way,
Speaker 3: you know, as you were saying about anti Semitism and
Speaker 3: the rise in it, well, if that's your definition, then
Speaker 3: I'm not going to believe the damn word that you say.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to where I eventually came to
Speaker 3: on these you know, incidents where someone was like, oh,
Speaker 3: someone was racist to me, I'm like, listen, unless you
Speaker 3: have it on video, I don't believe you. That's basically
Speaker 3: where I'm at, you know, right now after this, because
Speaker 3: we cannot trust a single word that you people are saying.
Speaker 3: If that's your definition, and now we're shrined into law.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's right. And they give some examples here
Speaker 2: of the supposed anti Semitic incidents that are like rally
Speaker 2: chance in this New York Post article. But we have
Speaker 2: another example that just unfolded over at Yale Universe. Ana
Speaker 2: if you saw this sob or if this was popping
Speaker 2: your timeline, so you get these tweets that say, oh,
Speaker 2: on the campus of Yale, Jewish students are being blocked
Speaker 2: from attending a lecture. Okay, well, let's talk a little
Speaker 2: bit more about this. Who was giving this purported just lecture. Oh,
Speaker 2: in Amar Benevier, the literal terrorist who is calling for
Speaker 2: bombing AID depots and is like affirmatively in favor of
Speaker 2: a mass genocide. It's to the right of nat Yahoo thinks,
Speaker 2: yet Yaho has not gone far enough in terms of
Speaker 2: starving and bombing and destroying all of Gaza. That's who's
Speaker 2: giving the lecture. So yeah, do I think it's appropriate
Speaker 2: to protest this apps that you want to talk about
Speaker 2: psychopaths like that one? I feel very comfortable in diagnosing,
Speaker 2: even as a non psychologist here from Afar, that dude
Speaker 2: is an evil, psychopathic terrorist villain. If anyone deserves to
Speaker 2: be protested, it's that guy. And they're turning those protests,
Speaker 2: those completely righteous just protests by Yale University students into another. Oh,
Speaker 2: it's an anti Semitic hate crime. That's what we're talking
Speaker 2: about here. That's what we're talking about here. Criticism of
Speaker 2: Israel is not anti Semitism. You are allowed to criticize
Speaker 2: our government. You are allowed to criticize a foreign government.
Speaker 2: You are especially to criticize a foreign government we are
Speaker 2: supporting with our tax dollars to commit these horrific atrocities.
Speaker 2: If you aren't doing that, then I have questions about
Speaker 2: your psychopathy and your ability to emotionally relate to the
Speaker 2: whores that are being committed in our names. And when
Speaker 2: you insist, as the ADL does, that any attacks on
Speaker 2: Israel an attack on all Jewish people. When you're tying
Speaker 2: those things together, that is exactly what helps to foment
Speaker 2: increased anti Semitism, increased actual bias because being relentlessly told
Speaker 2: by the ADL and by the Jordan Peterson's of the world,
Speaker 2: all these people that the Jewish people are synonymous with
Speaker 2: Israel as we watch Israel commit all of these horrible, horrible,
Speaker 2: endless atrocities. So you know, but this I do really
Speaker 2: feel like, and I saw this quote unquote report from
Speaker 2: the New York Post get relentlessly mocked, which is good
Speaker 2: because it gives up the game of how we're ridiculous
Speaker 2: these stats are and how much they've gained gained these stats,
Speaker 2: And to you, to your point, Soccer like, it means
Speaker 2: that when you do see these supposed claims of anti Semitism,
Speaker 2: it makes me much more likely to be like, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: I need to know the details. I don't like it
Speaker 2: really underminds. If you actually care about combating genuine anti Semitism,
Speaker 2: which is a real thing, if you actually care about
Speaker 2: that these preposterous statistics and made up victim culture and
Speaker 2: made up oh they've locked Jewish students, then you turn
Speaker 2: turns out, no, this is just a protest against the genuine,
Speaker 2: genuine psychopath. Like all of those things undermine your ability
Speaker 2: to actually combat genuine hatred and bias and smears against
Speaker 2: Jewish people. But you know that it's I do think
Speaker 2: that the mask is sort of off on all of
Speaker 2: this stuff. The pushback to Peterson, the pushback to Douglas Murray,
Speaker 2: you know, the way that public sentiment has changed in
Speaker 2: the face of what has been an extraordinary proper aganda effort.
Speaker 2: I think all indicates that, you know, there has been
Speaker 2: a seismic shift in this country, like the people of
Speaker 2: this country's relationship to this country in this conversation.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to deportation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are some wild developments here. In particular,
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to cover the story of this American citizen, Okay,
Speaker 2: who was picked up by Ice and detained for ten days.
Speaker 2: Again in spite of the fact this is an American citizen.
Speaker 2: There's no reason for this person to be detained, and
Speaker 2: everyone acknowledges that it was wrong for him to be
Speaker 2: held for ten days. So what unfolded here, and we
Speaker 2: can put this first piece up on the screen, is
Speaker 2: Ice effectively lied about what was going on with this individual.
Speaker 2: Judlagom here says Jose Harmacillo is a US citizen who
Speaker 2: was wrongly jail in an immigration detention facility for ten days.
Speaker 2: The administration says he turned himself in to the border
Speaker 2: patrol and told them he was a Mexican who crossed
Speaker 2: the border illegally. He actually Judd interviewed this person and
Speaker 2: he says the government is lying. And here you can
Speaker 2: see what the government's line was. They said, the narrative
Speaker 2: being pushed around about Jose is false. On April eighth,
Speaker 2: he approached border patrol in Tucson and stated he had
Speaker 2: entered the US illegally through Nogalis. He said he wanted
Speaker 2: to turn himself in and completed a sworn statement identifying
Speaker 2: as a Mexican citizen who had entered unlawfully. He was
Speaker 2: processed and appeared in court on April eleventh. Afterward, he
Speaker 2: was held by the US Marshalls in Florence, Arizona. A
Speaker 2: few days later, his family presented a documents showing you
Speaker 2: as citizenship. The charges were dismissed and he was released
Speaker 2: to his family. Their arrest was the direct result of
Speaker 2: his own actions and statements. So, Sager, what they're asking
Speaker 2: us to believe here is that Jose decided it would
Speaker 2: be fun to go and turn himself into border patrol
Speaker 2: and tell them that he was an undocumented immigrant who
Speaker 2: had just crossed in from Mexico, so that he could
Speaker 2: pull this fun little gag rank and end up in
Speaker 2: detention with in ice detention for ten days. That's what
Speaker 2: they want to say to believe, Okay, always preposterous. And
Speaker 2: immediately there were red flags because the border patrol had
Speaker 2: claimed they picked him up in Negallas. We click quickly
Speaker 2: came to realize that was not true. They actually picked
Speaker 2: him up in Tucson, which is some distance away from Nagallis. Immediately,
Speaker 2: their narrative was very suspect. Now we're getting Jose's side
Speaker 2: of the story. Let's put the next piece up on
Speaker 2: the screen. So apparently he was visiting a girlfriend in Tucson,
Speaker 2: had a medical incident. I think he had seizures, was
Speaker 2: taken to a hospital, and then once he's out of
Speaker 2: the hospital, he is not sure how to, you know,
Speaker 2: get where he's going and sees border patrol officer thinks
Speaker 2: this person might be able to help him, and instead
Speaker 2: they don't believe him when he says he's a US citizen.
Speaker 2: Just pick him up and have him sign this affidavit
Speaker 2: that claims that he came into from Mexico and that
Speaker 2: he's an undoct cocummented citizen, et cetera, et cetera. Well,
Speaker 2: this Jose has a learning disability and is unable to read,
Speaker 2: so we had no idea what he was signing, and
Speaker 2: he ends up being stuck in iced attention for ten days,
Speaker 2: even though he is a US citizen and zider the
Speaker 2: part of this too, that is so important. I mean
Speaker 2: number one again. Anytime an American citizens caught up in this,
Speaker 2: I think everyone needs to stop and take note, especially
Speaker 2: since it is this administration's position that you don't deserve
Speaker 2: any sort of due process. You don't get to even
Speaker 2: get your day in court to say, hey, here's my documents,
Speaker 2: like here's my birth certificate, et cetera. Before being disappeared
Speaker 2: into a foreign prison. But also just look at the
Speaker 2: way they lie, like top to bottom. They will just
Speaker 2: shamelessly make shit up and think that they can ultimately
Speaker 2: get away with it.
Speaker 3: That's what it is for me, is you know you
Speaker 3: you again, look, we have our many disagreements about mass
Speaker 3: deportation and all of that, but if you're going to
Speaker 3: do it, you have to do it in such a
Speaker 3: way that makes sure the of credibility would the public,
Speaker 3: and which you're not not just following the law, but
Speaker 3: following order. And within this it's just very clear, Like
Speaker 3: from the statements, and I trackt this for quite a while,
Speaker 3: the statements were just completely incorrect, and that is what
Speaker 3: drives me the craziest, not only of course about the
Speaker 3: you know, not only about the detention of a US citizen,
Speaker 3: but it is the broad precedent here where when Tricia McLaughlin,
Speaker 3: she's a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, puts something.
Speaker 1: Out, I'm like, I don't believe you.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is that's really especially after all of
Speaker 3: this El Salvador, all this El Salvador news, many of
Speaker 3: the statements that they put out are just wrong either
Speaker 3: about Garcia initially about the tattoos like claims which are
Speaker 3: stated with absolute certainty and which fall apart under basic scrutiny.
Speaker 3: And so people again, even if you support deportation, master portition,
Speaker 3: et cetera, which I do, I'm going to be very
Speaker 3: very clear about that when I see the way that
Speaker 3: they then justify their most extraordinary actions or others even
Speaker 3: in the future, if they're going to say this is
Speaker 3: what happened, I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna need
Speaker 3: again what we were just talking about with anti Semitism,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need to see something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna need to.
Speaker 3: See video, some real documentation, maybe you know some at
Speaker 3: this point, you know, some serious adjudication through the legal process,
Speaker 3: because you burned your credibility with the press. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, we talked about the polls. A lot of people.
Speaker 3: They gave trip a lot of leeway on immigration. They
Speaker 3: still do actually even whenever it comes to the border
Speaker 3: and border crossings. People are pretty happy about that. But
Speaker 3: with the rest of this, I feel, you know, again,
Speaker 3: I'm resurrecting this Vietnam era term called credibility gap. And
Speaker 3: I think that the credibility gap here is so immense
Speaker 3: now that it's really at a position of hey, prove it.
Speaker 3: You know you're at this at this point because people
Speaker 3: can't really take it seriously. A lot of what you
Speaker 3: guys are saying, and there are big consequences for this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. And Judd published
Speaker 2: the you know, the thing they had Jose sign and
Speaker 2: you know it really like when you look at apparently
Speaker 2: he can't he can't read, he can't write, he has
Speaker 2: a learning disability. And when you look at even the
Speaker 2: way he signs his name, like, I can't imagine that
Speaker 2: they didn't realize that this is someone who was confused
Speaker 2: about what was going on, who was unable to comprehend
Speaker 2: the information that was being put in front of him.
Speaker 2: And you know, this is far from the only disturbing
Speaker 2: incident that we've been tracking this week. This next one
Speaker 2: is even more disturbing. If anything, we could put this
Speaker 2: up on the screens in The New York Times did a
Speaker 2: deep dive into this Venezuelan. I think like Uber Eats driver,
Speaker 2: Door Dash driver who was picked up while he works
Speaker 2: a delivery job in Detroit. He picked up an order
Speaker 2: at McDonald's. He meant to go to one address, but
Speaker 2: accidentally got on the bridge which leads to Canada, which
Speaker 2: is a thing that happens in Detroit because Canada is
Speaker 2: right there, and so you can accidentally take the exit
Speaker 2: and end up in Canada. When he tries to re
Speaker 2: enter the country, he's put in detention, and he's ordered deported.
Speaker 2: And as of the time of the writing of this
Speaker 2: New York Times article, his friends and family could not
Speaker 2: find him anywhere, and the US authorities would not give
Speaker 2: them any information about where he was. He was literally
Speaker 2: disappeared without a trace. Now, he was not on the
Speaker 2: list of men who had been sent into the El
Speaker 2: Salvador torture dungeon in prison. He was not on that list,
Speaker 2: and again the government did not provide that list. By
Speaker 2: the way media outlets were able to get a hold
Speaker 2: of that list, his name was not on that list.
Speaker 2: Ice and other government officials refused to tell his family
Speaker 2: what had happened to him. They had no communication with
Speaker 2: him whatsoever. And this is someone who was constantly checking
Speaker 2: in with friends and family, and he has a son,
Speaker 2: I believe, and so they felt like he was just
Speaker 2: vanished off the face of the earth. Now after this
Speaker 2: media report and the scrutiny, now the government has been
Speaker 2: forced to acknowledge that oh, he actually is in that
Speaker 2: El Salvador prison. But again, Soccer, just think about this.
Speaker 2: If it wasn't for this New York Times report about
Speaker 2: this man that just is gone, like no one would
Speaker 2: ever have any way of knowing where he was and
Speaker 2: what the hell happened to him, Like for his friends
Speaker 2: and family, he had just completely been disappeared. I mean,
Speaker 2: and this again just proves the point of why it
Speaker 2: is so important that people have an ability to you know,
Speaker 2: go have their day in court and be able to dispute,
Speaker 2: and that the government keeps records and that we're able
Speaker 2: to know where these people are and what is happening
Speaker 2: to them, because without them, they can literally pick up
Speaker 2: some DoorDash driver and he's just disappeared forever with zero recourse.
Speaker 3: And they didn't even give us his name, They didn't
Speaker 3: publish the names of the individual. I mean, this is
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, you know, like it's beyond due process.
Speaker 3: It's just one of those where you're not even attempting
Speaker 3: to prove or to tell, and it's not even about proved.
Speaker 3: They're not even attempting to convey there's no transparency around
Speaker 3: the entire thing. And at this point we you and
Speaker 3: I both know why they're not doing it because they
Speaker 3: don't want people to be able to look into their background,
Speaker 3: so they're just keeping the names people.
Speaker 1: So the whole thing is just completely preposterous.
Speaker 2: We are very pleased to be joined this morning by
Speaker 2: doctor Abdul l Sayad, who is a public health professor
Speaker 2: and has announced a run for Senate in Michigan to
Speaker 2: entered the Democratic primary. There great to see a doctor, Crystal.
Speaker 4: Always a privilege to be with you today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my pleasure. So your run has caught a lot
Speaker 2: of people's attention, both because of some of your bold stances,
Speaker 2: but also we can put this up on the screen
Speaker 2: because you are the first candidate this cycle to earn
Speaker 2: the official endorsement of Senator Bernie Sanders, who you've supported
Speaker 2: in the past, and you know, have a platform that
Speaker 2: is broadly aligned with Senator Sanders positioning. You know, he
Speaker 2: obviously has long now at this point been a very
Speaker 2: significant figure in American political life, but in some ways
Speaker 2: his reach and influence has only strengthened in Trump two
Speaker 2: point zero. He's really entered this absolute leadership position with
Speaker 2: the Stop Oligarchy tour. So, doctor, if you could just
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit why you jumped in this
Speaker 2: race and the significance of receiving Center Sanders endorsement.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Crystal, Look, it just shouldn't be this hard in
Speaker 6: the richest, most powerful country in the world, just to
Speaker 6: get by, to afford your groceries, to go see a
Speaker 6: doctor without being afraid that you're going to go into
Speaker 6: medical debt, to know that your kid's going to have
Speaker 6: a good school or even childcare. To believe that you
Speaker 6: have your job tomorrow and that that job will pay
Speaker 6: you enough to be able to afford your home. These
Speaker 6: are things that you should be able to take for
Speaker 6: granted in our country, and you can't. And the very
Speaker 6: people who've weaponized all of that pain are now making
Speaker 6: it worse. Whether it's Donald Trump or doze in Elon Musk,
Speaker 6: they are weaponizing against government to deliver to the very
Speaker 6: people who've put us in the situation. And when I
Speaker 6: ran into eighteen for governor, I said something that people
Speaker 6: weren't quite ready to hear, which is that Donald Trump
Speaker 6: isn't the disease. He's just the worst symptom of the disease,
Speaker 6: and the disease is a government that has been corrupted
Speaker 6: by the power of billionaires and corporations and oligarchs in
Speaker 6: ways that have left them monetizing us. And I'm really
Speaker 6: grateful to earn Senator Sanders support because he's somebody who's
Speaker 6: recognized that guaranteeing healthcare and building an economy that works
Speaker 6: for working people should be common sense. We shouldn't be
Speaker 6: having debates about whether or not Democrats can believing these
Speaker 6: things when this party was supposed to be built for
Speaker 6: working people. And so both of us are about the
Speaker 6: work of taking the party back more importantly, delivering government
Speaker 6: that works for people. That's what I've done my whole
Speaker 6: career as a health director in Wayne County and in Detroit,
Speaker 6: erasing seven hundred million dollars in medical debt, making sure
Speaker 6: kids had classes on their faces when they needed them.
Speaker 6: That's what we need in the Senate right now, and
Speaker 6: I look forward to being able to serve my state
Speaker 6: this way.
Speaker 2: What is your assessment of how Democrats have responded to
Speaker 2: this iteration of the Trump administration.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you've heard it right.
Speaker 6: The rollover and play dead Unfortunately, that's not what we need.
Speaker 4: We need to fight.
Speaker 6: And the tough part about it is this is when
Speaker 6: people get elected, they sometimes mistake their job as a
Speaker 6: representative or a senator for the procedural parts.
Speaker 4: Of the job, how you vote.
Speaker 6: And when they were given the opportunity to use the
Speaker 6: procedural part of the job to stand up on that
Speaker 6: continuing resolution, they missed that. But then, bigger picture, the
Speaker 6: ability to show up and fight back. People want to
Speaker 6: know that they're congress people, even if they don't have
Speaker 6: the procedural capacity to change what government's doing or hold
Speaker 6: Trump accountable right now, that they would if they could.
Speaker 6: And that means being willing to call out Trump, but
Speaker 6: also not just fight back, remember what you're fighting for.
Speaker 6: And here's where the party, I think has had such
Speaker 6: a challenge. We do this thing, Democrats of trying to
Speaker 6: triangulate to a message that's going to make everybody happy enough, right,
Speaker 6: so it's going to be perfectly inoffensive to the donors
Speaker 6: who've been writing too many of those big checks that
Speaker 6: have corrupted our government. And then we end up saying
Speaker 6: nothing at all, but saying it with enthusiasm. And then
Speaker 6: you just look ridiculous, and so for us, we've got
Speaker 6: to go continue a conversation with the people, understand what
Speaker 6: is causing their pain, have real clear solutions to solving it,
Speaker 6: and then be willing to take that solution to the streets.
Speaker 6: And I think if we do that, we win votes,
Speaker 6: we win back power, and we can actually take that
Speaker 6: pain and turn it into something bigger than cynicism, which
Speaker 6: I believe is hope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree with that. I want to talk
Speaker 2: to you a little bit about the primary field. I
Speaker 2: know one of your main opponents is Haley Stephens. She's
Speaker 2: a current representative. You know, I think you would classify
Speaker 2: as more aligned with the kind of establishment of the
Speaker 2: Democratic Party. She's also taken some significant funding from APAC
Speaker 2: and has been a pretty reliable pro Israel vote. So
Speaker 2: I wonder you know your thoughts about how you contrast
Speaker 2: with her, and also how much you think that Israel's
Speaker 2: what I think you and I both agree is a
Speaker 2: genocidal assault in Gaza. How significant that will be in
Speaker 2: this race.
Speaker 4: I mean, let's just step back here for a second.
Speaker 6: APAK is a wash in funding that has supported Donald Trump,
Speaker 6: and if you're going to take MAGA money to try
Speaker 6: and beat a fellow democrat.
Speaker 4: I just think one has to answer for that.
Speaker 6: I believe deeply that in our country, when you look
Speaker 6: at our schools, you have to ask, why is it
Speaker 6: that we ship out billions of dollars to a rich
Speaker 6: country's military to drop bombs on other kids and their schools,
Speaker 6: rather than investing in our own. And I just think
Speaker 6: that's a simple question we ought to be asking, you know.
Speaker 6: And when it comes to what's happening in Gaza, there's
Speaker 6: no doubt that this I don't know another word for
Speaker 6: what happens when you kill fifty thousand people in counting,
Speaker 6: you render their homes unlivable, you try to push them
Speaker 6: into another country because people in that country you speak
Speaker 6: the same language. I don't know what word you call that.
Speaker 6: And so for me, I just think it's common sense.
Speaker 6: I would rather spend our money here invested in our
Speaker 6: kids rather than killing a broad kids abroad. And I
Speaker 6: don't think that we should be sending our money to
Speaker 6: a foreign military that is committing acts that we would
Speaker 6: never ever ever be okay, committed on our kids, and
Speaker 6: so we deserve a lot better. And I just think
Speaker 6: that there are open questions that need to be asked
Speaker 6: about what happens when you take MAGA money to support
Speaker 6: that kind of thing abroad to try and call shots
Speaker 6: in a Democratic primary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is far from the most important question here,
Speaker 2: But you know, I think what's being done in Gaza
Speaker 2: is far beyond some sort of sectarian divide. We've seen
Speaker 2: the way that especially the base of the Democratic Party
Speaker 2: is horrified by what our tax sellers do there, whether
Speaker 2: you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, et cetera. That being said, I
Speaker 2: am curious your assessment of how your stance, which would
Speaker 2: be the strongest stance of any senator, including Senator Sanders,
Speaker 2: if you were able to get elected to the Senate,
Speaker 2: how your stance is being received politically, because Michigan does
Speaker 2: have a significant Jewish population, Michigan also obviously has a
Speaker 2: very significant Muslim population, So I wonder what your conversations
Speaker 2: with voters have been like thus far.
Speaker 4: No, Crystal, I don't.
Speaker 6: You shouldn't have to be any one religion to see
Speaker 6: things that are obviously wrong and call them out. So
Speaker 6: my conversation, I hope is with Michiganders of stripes, my
Speaker 6: Jewish sisters and brothers, my Muslim sisters and brothers, my
Speaker 6: Christian sisters and brothers, my Atheist sisters and brothers, about
Speaker 6: the question of what we should be doing with our
Speaker 6: tax dollars. I don't think we should be sending them
Speaker 6: abroad to drop bombs on other people's children. I just
Speaker 6: think that you shouldn't that there is no there is
Speaker 6: no tribe, there is no ethnicity or race or religion
Speaker 6: that should stand in the way of just seeing that.
Speaker 6: And that's the conversation I'm hoping have. And I'll tell
Speaker 6: you it's common sense. And so when you go and
Speaker 6: have that conversation, despite the fact that you know there
Speaker 6: are a lot of folks who in politics believe that
Speaker 6: saying the obvious thing is verbotant, When you just have
Speaker 6: that conversation with people, most of the time, people's heads
Speaker 6: nod and they wonder why more people aren't saying the
Speaker 6: same thing. So what I'm asking is that we should
Speaker 6: be spending our money here at home. We should be
Speaker 6: investing in our schools and our health care. And by
Speaker 6: the way, when I go talk about an economy for
Speaker 6: working people, when I go talk about guaranteeing people health care,
Speaker 6: when I go talk about investing more in public schools.
Speaker 4: The big pushback I happen to.
Speaker 6: Hear from folks, unfortunately in my party as well, is
Speaker 6: that we just don't have the money to do that.
Speaker 6: And so the question we have to ask is, okay,
Speaker 6: so where does our money go? And unfortunately too much
Speaker 6: of it goes abroad to do things that are not
Speaker 6: consistent with our values or our beliefs. And so my
Speaker 6: point is, maybe instead of spending it there to do
Speaker 6: awful things, maybe we should be spending it here to
Speaker 6: do good things. And if that's as common sense as
Speaker 6: it sounds, it's because it is, and so it's not
Speaker 6: very difficult to convince people of common sense.
Speaker 4: That's what we're trying to do here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did want to get to your reaction to
Speaker 2: some news that is breaking out in Michigan with the
Speaker 2: understanding that it's sort of you know, early, and we
Speaker 2: don't know all the details here, but we can put
Speaker 2: this video obtained by Status Who's Ashley Bishop up on
Speaker 2: the screen here. What you're watching is FBI and police
Speaker 2: raiding homes of pro Palestine activists in and around University
Speaker 2: of Michigan. There were a number of houses that experienced
Speaker 2: these raids. The early indications are this was actually directed
Speaker 2: by the Democratic attorney general. So I'm just curious your reaction.
Speaker 2: You're understand ending of what this is all about, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'd also love to hear your thoughts more
Speaker 2: broadly on something Soger and I've been covering a lot,
Speaker 2: which is this quite authoritarian crackdown on any speech and
Speaker 2: dissent from this government's policy visa the Israel.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Christal, I really appreciate you covering it because I
Speaker 6: think it is the big context question we all have
Speaker 6: to be asking. I don't know the specific details about
Speaker 6: what perpetuated that raid. Obviously the raid was directed by
Speaker 6: our attorney general here in Michigan. It was signed off
Speaker 6: on by a judge. I want to understand specifically what
Speaker 6: and why they felt like it was important to have
Speaker 6: a multi jurisdictional raid where they were breaking down people's doors,
Speaker 6: because my understanding is if it's about vandalism, usually those
Speaker 6: kinds of raids are kept for dangerous, you know, crimes
Speaker 6: that involve violence against people. That being said, I just
Speaker 6: think it's important for us to zoom back out and
Speaker 6: understand that right now we're watching as the federal government
Speaker 6: as being what the against people for doing things like
Speaker 6: signing their name to an op ed when it comes
Speaker 6: to standing up for Palestinian rights, and they're trying to
Speaker 6: crack down on universities because of peaceful protests in those communities.
Speaker 6: People literally getting disappeared because they were willing to use
Speaker 6: the freedom of speech, which is guaranteed to people in
Speaker 6: our country. Citizens are not and I just think it's
Speaker 6: really important for us to recognize that this is not normal.
Speaker 6: And so I don't know the specifics about this case,
Speaker 6: and I'll wait and see to see whether or not
Speaker 6: the use of this kind of force was substantiated. But
Speaker 6: more broadly, it is really concerning when you start seeing
Speaker 6: our government weaponized against the freedom of speech, and that
Speaker 6: should concern us all. And I think for even folks
Speaker 6: who were not involved in the campus protests.
Speaker 4: If you protest anything, if.
Speaker 6: You're willing to send a letter to the editor of
Speaker 6: your newspaper for something as simple as a disagreement, for example,
Speaker 6: with the town board, does this create precedent where they
Speaker 6: can come after you. And I worry that it does,
Speaker 6: especially when you consider the fact that right now the
Speaker 6: Trump administration believes that it is outside the bounds of
Speaker 6: court orders, and so I just worry a lot about
Speaker 6: what this means about our freedom of speech, and I
Speaker 6: think we need to step up to make sure that
Speaker 6: in these United States there is a rule of law
Speaker 6: that is bigger than any one president or any one
Speaker 6: law enforcement official, and that rule of law should reign
Speaker 6: supreme do process matters, And we just need to make
Speaker 6: sure that we are not forgetting that broader context, because
Speaker 6: I worry that we're seeing people across our country and
Speaker 6: universities being broken over this in ways that the rule
Speaker 6: of law seems to be thrown out the window as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and related to that last question I had for
Speaker 2: you is there's a bit of a like annoying Twitter
Speaker 2: debate playing out over how Democrats should focus their message
Speaker 2: because obviously Trump's trade war is disastrously unpopular, his economic
Speaker 2: approper rating has fallen off a cliff. You have a
Speaker 2: deep concerns that he may be, you know, personally triggering
Speaker 2: a mass economic crisis and recession that is going to
Speaker 2: impact every single person in this country. At the same time,
Speaker 2: you see those authoritarian abuses which are also terrifying for
Speaker 2: the future of our country, things like you know, the
Speaker 2: case of kil Mar Abrego Garcia, where he's wrongfully deported
Speaker 2: into this Elsalvadorian basically torture dungeon, and the administration's position is, no,
Speaker 2: you don't get a chance to have your day in
Speaker 2: court and nowhere under no obligation to fix what we
Speaker 2: even acknowledged was a mistake in shipping him off there.
Speaker 2: And obviously he's not the only one. He's garnered the
Speaker 2: most attention because of the Supreme Court ruling, because of
Speaker 2: the clear cut nature of his case, But all of
Speaker 2: the individuals who were disappeared into that prison had no recourse,
Speaker 2: had no due process, had no ability to contest the
Speaker 2: nature of not just a deportation of an imprisonment potentially
Speaker 2: for life. So I'm curious, you know, in this debate
Speaker 2: of you've got people, oh well, just don't really talk
Speaker 2: about that, because Trump's on better ground with immigration and
Speaker 2: he's on weaker ground with regard to tariffs. So that's
Speaker 2: where you should be training all of your fire, and
Speaker 2: that's a real way to defeat him and defeat what
Speaker 2: is a horrific and I would say fascistic movement. I
Speaker 2: was just wondering how you're thinking about those pieces. When
Speaker 2: there are so many on a daily basis horrors to
Speaker 2: focus on, and media space is limited to a certain degree,
Speaker 2: how many things we can really train our attention to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I said a lot of things that were complicated.
Speaker 6: I went to bed school. This one's not that complicated.
Speaker 6: The biggest issue I think we have right now is
Speaker 6: that we are running scared. We're scared of what we believe.
Speaker 6: And when you're scared of what you believe, that means
Speaker 6: that people see it in you and they.
Speaker 4: Don't think you believe it all that strongly.
Speaker 6: I think we have to stop being so afraid of
Speaker 6: what we believe, and we can walk in chew gum
Speaker 6: at the same time, but you have to stand up
Speaker 6: and believe what you're saying and say it clearly, honestly
Speaker 6: and with conviction consistently. Look, the other part of this, though,
Speaker 6: is that you can't just say what you're against.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the other part of the mistake.
Speaker 6: He creates such a smoke screen and you point to
Speaker 6: that one or that one or that one, and you say,
Speaker 6: which one of these should I focus on. Well, you
Speaker 6: can say that they're all wrong, But more importantly, people
Speaker 6: want to understand what your alternative is, so you cannot
Speaker 6: be afraid of telling people.
Speaker 4: What you think the world ought to look like.
Speaker 6: And in response to Trump, who is chaotic and self
Speaker 6: serving and ham handed, we've got opportunities to step up
Speaker 6: and say, hey, listen, we understand that you are facing
Speaker 6: a lot of pain, and we understand that a lot
Speaker 6: of that could be solved by government, and also could
Speaker 6: be made a lot worse by government when they go
Speaker 6: after people they deport them for signing their name to
Speaker 6: an op ed or they are now out of the
Speaker 6: bounds of American courts, that could be weaponized against you.
Speaker 4: That will make the pain a lot worse.
Speaker 6: And at the same time, we can take our government
Speaker 6: and our economics back from the corporations that have rigged
Speaker 6: the system in ways that leave you deeply, deeply insecure,
Speaker 6: and we can guarantee you healthcare. We can talk about
Speaker 6: all those things at the same time. We got to
Speaker 6: stop being afraid to do so. So we have a
Speaker 6: vision of what the world ought to be. Too often
Speaker 6: democrats are too afraid of painting that vision because they're
Speaker 6: worried about offending somebody, usually a corporate donor. So I
Speaker 6: just think that if you're willing to say, look, that's
Speaker 6: wrong and this is right, people will see that and say, Okay,
Speaker 6: you know, these folks actually have a vision and they
Speaker 6: want to work for that vision, and maybe that's a
Speaker 6: real alternative for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's so well said that you know all
Speaker 2: these like let's check the polls and let's focus test it.
Speaker 2: It's like people can see when you are trying to
Speaker 2: pander versus you actually have a position you're willing to
Speaker 2: fight for it, and I think that has been one
Speaker 2: of the major downfalls of the Democratic Party in recent years. Doctor,
Speaker 2: tell people where they can find, follow and support your campaign.
Speaker 6: I hope that folks will check out Abdul for Senate
Speaker 6: dot com. Please do sign up to volunteer if you're
Speaker 6: in Michigan, hostess at a house party, or chip us
Speaker 6: a couple bucks, five bucks, ten bucks.
Speaker 4: I don't take corporate pack money, so I rely on you.
Speaker 6: And then if you're out of state, sign up to volunteer,
Speaker 6: and also just check us out on socials, share our stuff,
Speaker 6: be a part of this conversation.
Speaker 4: This is about more than just one election.
Speaker 6: It's about taking our politics back and building the kind
Speaker 6: of America where we are true to our ideals of
Speaker 6: a government of the people, for the people, and by
Speaker 6: the people. And Crystal, thank you so much for the
Speaker 6: conversations you drive every day and for having me and
Speaker 6: allowing me to share your space today.
Speaker 2: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time out. I
Speaker 2: know you've got a lot going on, so it's always
Speaker 2: great to see you.
Speaker 1: Good luck.
Speaker 2: We're looking forward to seeing your voice out there. Thank
Speaker 2: you all right, guys, thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2: Sager had to run out and take care of something
Speaker 2: real quick, but we will be back here some subset
Speaker 2: of us, I'm not sure exactly who yet. We'll be
Speaker 2: here for the Friday show tomorrow. I'm sure there will
Speaker 2: be a million things for us to cover and get
Speaker 2: to appreciate you all. Have a great day.