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Speaker 1: When I would go see I'd go visit my parents

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Speaker 1: even now, like my mom would give me cash and

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Speaker 1: like the roles like didn't change. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I go to the ATM. I'm the generation I go

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Speaker 1: to the ATM, you get the twenty dollar bills. And

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Speaker 1: my mom, you know, she's of the generation where they

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Speaker 1: go in the bank. So I would see her at

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Speaker 1: games and she would give me like four one hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars in cash, and so it was really cool. And

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Speaker 1: I you know, so I never have money or cash

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Speaker 1: when I'm with my parents because they always pick up

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Speaker 1: a tack up attack up.

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Speaker 2: Attach so at. And I'm not going to tell his business,

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Speaker 2: but at forty plus years of age, Grant Hell, former

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Speaker 2: professional basketball player at one time I believe the face

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Speaker 2: of NCAA basketball when he was at Duke his parents mother,

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Speaker 2: more specifically, every now and again, just slide some some

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Speaker 2: money here you go, baby, case you need it. Let's

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Speaker 2: be clear he doesn't need it, but that says a

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Speaker 2: lot about how he was raised. He is our guest

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Speaker 2: on Naked Stick Around. You know, want to miss it

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Speaker 2: coming back after this commercial break.

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Speaker 3: Every champion and Kerry Champions to be a champion out

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Speaker 3: a Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry Chaplie out a

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Speaker 3: Champion and Kerry Champion and Kerry Champion. The greatest the

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Speaker 3: sportson entertainment conneked weird.

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Speaker 1: In the world.

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Speaker 3: With vulnerable considered, we come and remove the veil from

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Speaker 3: entertainment's elite. It's the difference between what it's reeling with

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Speaker 3: the public seeds. So here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes.

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Speaker 3: Just refresh you up there in the whole story with

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Speaker 3: specific life alter renovents to shake the person that you hear.

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Speaker 3: We gotta champion and Kerry Champion, the girl you did it.

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Speaker 3: It's the greatest and sponsion entertainment. Connect it with every

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Speaker 3: champion and Kerry Champions to be a champion, a champion

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Speaker 3: and Kerry Champion, the girl who didn't got a champion

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Speaker 3: and Kerry Champion and Kerry Champion.

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Speaker 1: The greatest sportsion entertainment.

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Speaker 2: Knnaked weear so we have Henry hill on Naked today.

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Speaker 2: Lots to talk about with Grant hill Is. Many of

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Speaker 2: you may know him from his days at Duke. He

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Speaker 2: went two NCAA chips there. He played for almost twenty

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Speaker 2: years in the NBA. I think just shy of that

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Speaker 2: nineteen great, great guy. You know, let me keep it

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Speaker 2: a buck. The tagline on Grant is if you want

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Speaker 2: a good man, that's the man every woman should want

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Speaker 2: if they have to date a professional athlete, because he's

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Speaker 2: just a good guy. He comes from good stock. He

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Speaker 2: truly I remember watching him as a kid growing up.

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Speaker 2: He was considered, you know, the American dream. If there

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Speaker 2: was a Ken in Barbie, he would be Ken the

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Speaker 2: Black can if you will. But that's a compliment. We

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Speaker 2: get into that on the podcast today. But before I

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Speaker 2: introduce you to Grant Hill in that way, in that

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Speaker 2: naked way, I want to talk about Deshaun Watson and

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Speaker 2: what is going on in the NFL, if you will,

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Speaker 2: Deshaun Watson has been accused sexually harassing I want to say,

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Speaker 2: just for the record, twenty four women. Those are twenty

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Speaker 2: four women who have filed a lawsuit against him. There

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Speaker 2: allegedly are far more. He has settled the lawsuit, the

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Speaker 2: civil suit with all except for one. A grand jury

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Speaker 2: has decided not to file criminal charges against him. Two

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Speaker 2: grand juries. They felt like there wasn't enough evidence, and

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Speaker 2: then as a result, once it was known to the

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Speaker 2: NFL that he would not be facing criminal charges. The

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Speaker 2: bidding wars for Deshaun Watson began, and you may remember

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Speaker 2: early on he signed a two hundred and thirty million

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Speaker 2: dollars deal with the Cleveland Browns fully guaranteed. There were

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Speaker 2: a lot of cushions in this deal for him. For instance,

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Speaker 2: if in fact the NFL decided to suspend him, he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't lose that much money, Meaning if they decided to

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Speaker 2: suspend him for his behavior outside of the NFL, which

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Speaker 2: is obviously the sexual harassment cases that have been brought

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Speaker 2: against him, that he would not lose that much more.

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Speaker 2: It was also written in his new contract with the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Browns is that he would have to go with

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Speaker 2: massage therapists that only the team recommended. So those of

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Speaker 2: you who don't know who Deshaun Watson is, it has

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Speaker 2: now been discovered that over a few years, he contacted

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Speaker 2: over sixty women, if not more, and asked them to massage.

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Speaker 2: He is an athlete, he needs to recover and he

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Speaker 2: asks for massages. These are for people who don't know

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Speaker 2: the case. And it turns out that he was reaching

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Speaker 2: out to these women over DMS and when he got

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Speaker 2: into the massage room. The women alleged, many women alleged

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Speaker 2: that it was more than just a massage. He wanted,

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Speaker 2: sometimes in some cases a happy ending. He would show

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Speaker 2: up with just a towel over his genitals and nothing else,

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Speaker 2: and he used his leverage as an NFL quarterback to

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Speaker 2: make these ladies feel uncomfortable. It all came to ahead

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Speaker 2: when a woman by the name of Ashley Solice, back

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Speaker 2: in Houston when he played for the Texans, shared her story,

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Speaker 2: and her story seemed really convincing, and she did not

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Speaker 2: say anything until maybe a few months, if not a

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Speaker 2: year later. And so for a long time, because he

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Speaker 2: has been dealing with this since twenty twenty for a

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Speaker 2: very long time, it is now twenty two, twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't really determine what was going on with Deshaun.

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Speaker 2: Some of the women were questionable, at least we thought

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Speaker 2: they were. And I hate even saying that, because as

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Speaker 2: soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment

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Speaker 2: or any type of sexual assault, you check her character

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Speaker 2: first and not his. And so for a long time,

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Speaker 2: the media didn't really know how to cover this story,

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Speaker 2: and it laid and laid until these bombshell reports started

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Speaker 2: to come out, specifically from the New York Times, showing

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Speaker 2: that he had a pattern of contacting women in DMS

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Speaker 2: and exchanging messages with him that many people saw and

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Speaker 2: read that were very inappropriate, at the very least predatory,

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Speaker 2: at the very most sexually harassing them. You don't want

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Speaker 2: to be in any one of those cates. But when

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Speaker 2: the criminal charges weren't filed, NFL was like, come on,

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Speaker 2: my brother, come play. And we know what that is.

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Speaker 2: We've seen it over the years, talent. Trump's all, how

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Speaker 2: many stories have we seen, whether it be an NFL player,

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Speaker 2: an NBA player, a journalist, a broadcast journalist, a famous personality,

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Speaker 2: an actor, anyone harassing a woman. Harvey Weinstein, for that matter,

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Speaker 2: he had been doing it for years before they brought

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Speaker 2: him down, decades. If you will, and you won, First

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Speaker 2: check the woman's character to ignore the story. Three, make

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Speaker 2: the woman's life miserable. Four And this is just as

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Speaker 2: of late, there is some sort of justice. So this

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Speaker 2: week Deshaun Watson found out what his actual punishment would

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Speaker 2: be from the NFL, and that was a suspension of

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Speaker 2: six games, And many people thought that was a slap

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Speaker 2: in the face. It came from a neutral arbiter who said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: his actions were egregious, it's really inappropriate. He misses six games.

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Speaker 2: The NFL comes back and says, actually, we're going to

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Speaker 2: peel that sentence. It seems too late. We're going to

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Speaker 2: see if we can take him away for the rest

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Speaker 2: of the season. I say all that to say is

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Speaker 2: that it's so convoluted and it's so messy, and if

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Speaker 2: many of you have been following this, it is a

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Speaker 2: case of a quarterback. It just so happens to be

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Speaker 2: black who is extremely talented, who did some things that

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Speaker 2: were too familiar, too too consistent, and quite frankly, too

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Speaker 2: suspicious for us to ignore it anymore. I do believe

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Speaker 2: Deshawn's behavior was completely inappropriate, and I'm going to write

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Speaker 2: about it on my I said what I said dot

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Speaker 2: com blog, and I'll post that for you all. But

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Speaker 2: Deshawn's behavior was inappropriate. And if I'm speaking in full

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Speaker 2: candor with you guys, I remember when it first happened

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Speaker 2: to him, I didn't believe it. I reached out, I said,

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Speaker 2: you're doing okay because we had a friendly relationship over DMS,

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Speaker 2: because that's his thing. He DMS. They said, if you

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Speaker 2: could call in help me and give me some advice,

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Speaker 2: I'd like I'd like your advice. Now remember calling yourma

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Speaker 2: else saying I don't know, let me watch this play out.

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Speaker 2: I just am not ready to offer him any advice yet,

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Speaker 2: because I don't know what I don't know. You can't

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Speaker 2: give advice when you don't know all the facts, and

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Speaker 2: right now I think we have just about all the facts.

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Speaker 2: The fact is is that he contacted over sixty women,

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Speaker 2: if not more that we know of, and ask them

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Speaker 2: to massage him. He is an invaluable commodity for the NFL,

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Speaker 2: and you're contacting women with no real discrimination, meaning like

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Speaker 2: just anybody. Hey, I heard you had a business, a

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Speaker 2: black business. I want to support it. A hair I

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Speaker 2: heard you had a business. I want to support it.

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Speaker 2: Give me a massage today. Afore, I'm sorry. That is

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Speaker 2: not how I believe most professional athletes go about getting massages.

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Speaker 2: They ask for recommendations, they look for good people, and

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Speaker 2: yes some of them, I mean, let's keep it a buck.

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Speaker 2: They look for hot chicks and massage them because they

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Speaker 2: like it and maybe it's more than what it turns

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Speaker 2: out to be. But you cannot, in this day and age,

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Speaker 2: reach out to women without discrimination. Meaning, Okay, there's Susie. There,

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Speaker 2: there's Tanya, there's to me, that's a horrible name. Sorry, sorry, Gran,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean to say that. There's Michelle, there's Michael,

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Speaker 2: there's whomever. You can't do that. It just doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: I'm nowhere near as famous, and I'm nowhere near as

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Speaker 2: worth as what he is worth. And I just don't

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Speaker 2: allow different people in my aura because I know that

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Speaker 2: he can get complicated. I don't move certain ways because

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Speaker 2: I know that he could get complicated. I don't have

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Speaker 2: the same access that other women would have. I know

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Speaker 2: that I'm aware of that. I can't just be running

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Speaker 2: up and down the street at work, behaving any old

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Speaker 2: kind of way when I get off work, because I

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Speaker 2: know there are consequences that could possibly follow if I

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Speaker 2: continue to have reckless behavior. And that is at the

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Speaker 2: very least what he had, which was reckless behavior, which

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Speaker 2: seemed predatory. It seemed like he went after certain women.

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Speaker 2: He didn't care. As long as you were a massage

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Speaker 2: therapist and you were kind of cute or cute or whatever,

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Speaker 2: it was attractive to him. And can you missage me today. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you read on the case, I'm giving you a summary.

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Speaker 2: There's so much more involved to it. But what I

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Speaker 2: do know is that it's disappointing that this football player,

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Speaker 2: who at one time was touted as the Michael Jordan

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Speaker 2: of football. His Clemson college coach said that that Bosweeny,

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Speaker 2: he was like, he's a Michael. He's a Michael Jordan

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Speaker 2: of football. He could make it happen. And he is

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Speaker 2: a great player. And you know why he's a great

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Speaker 2: player because the bidding war said, I don't care how

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Speaker 2: many women you've assaulted, can you come play and throw

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Speaker 2: this ball from my football team. When the suspension was

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Speaker 2: handed down, you could hear people at the Cleveland Brown's

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Speaker 2: training cap saying we root for you at training camp.

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Speaker 2: The fans who come and watch, we got your back.

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Speaker 2: To Sean, we don't believe them, we got your back.

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Speaker 2: I mean he's loved, he's a loved man. And I

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Speaker 2: understand that because these are heroes. These athletes are heroes

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Speaker 2: no matter how you slice it, it's just that way.

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Speaker 2: But it's disappointing that the consistent messages it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you something, Ben Roethlisberger accused of attempted

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Speaker 2: to create retired famous Dealers quarterback six games. Ray Rice

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Speaker 2: punched his wife in an elevator on camera. We saw

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Speaker 2: it all. The end result was six games. The only

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Speaker 2: reason why that was overturned and his career ended was

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Speaker 2: because it was on camera and people made a fuss.

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Speaker 2: If you are talented, it really does. And I hate

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Speaker 2: to say this name Trump's all talent will solve all problems.

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Speaker 2: If you can get us a win and help us

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Speaker 2: make money. That is the bottom line. And it's hard

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Speaker 2: for me to talk about this guy because I considered

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Speaker 2: him a good guy. I rooted for him, young black

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Speaker 2: kid coming up in the league, super talented, still probably

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Speaker 2: is very talented. If he's able to push through all

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Speaker 2: of this and come back, we need to give him

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Speaker 2: a second chance. But right now, his behavior is unacceptable

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Speaker 2: and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that he can't admit that

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Speaker 2: this is a problem, and I know why he won't

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Speaker 2: admit it, but it's more unfortunate because it's just another

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Speaker 2: indictment on women and when we try to tell the truth,

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Speaker 2: and more specifically, those who are listening to my podcast

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Speaker 2: right now, who are ment. Y'all gonna have real issues

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Speaker 2: with me talking about this. Y'all will tell me I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: Y'all will tell me it's not right to bring down

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Speaker 2: a brother. Y'all will remind me of what I said

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Speaker 2: about Floyd Mayweather and say I'm always trying to take

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Speaker 2: the black man down. And I will simply say to this,

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Speaker 2: what about the black woman? What about your black mother,

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Speaker 2: your sister, your wife, your friend, your aunt, your cousin,

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Speaker 2: what about women? Period heavy days, which is why this

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Speaker 2: is to be continued. We'll put a pin in the

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Speaker 2: Deshaun Watson conversation. We'll see what happens. I'll update you

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Speaker 2: next week. But now it's time to get naked. To

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Speaker 2: get naked. That was your news and notes, right. I

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Speaker 2: gave you your news and your notes. I gave you

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Speaker 2: some updates, and I give you my notes. Now it's

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Speaker 2: time for Grant Hill. So I'd like to begin with

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Speaker 2: the storytime first time I met Grant Hill when I

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Speaker 2: was on this side of the business. Obviously Washington was

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Speaker 2: a fan and people say that, but I really truly was.

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Speaker 2: But when I met him, I met him in Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: It was some basketball event. We talked about it on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, but I remember thinking, what a nice man

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Speaker 2: and and what a pristine reputation. But most importantly, he

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Speaker 2: really is what he is set as advertised. Right. It's

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Speaker 2: rare that you meet people as advertised that they are

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Speaker 2: the people they have been living that image that they

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Speaker 2: live up to. And I talked to him about his

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Speaker 2: play cousin, Jamal Hill. They call each other play cousins.

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Speaker 2: I talked to him about his marriage, or talked to

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Speaker 2: him about his life as an NBA player. He has

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Speaker 2: a book out which I appreciate, called Game. He's given

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Speaker 2: out Game. Y'all go ahead and take it. Go ahead

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Speaker 2: and download it, go ahead and buy it, get it, support,

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Speaker 2: go ahead and support it. And then I kind of

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Speaker 2: I kind of get into some really funny stories. He

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Speaker 2: said three things to me, one of which you heard

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Speaker 2: was about how his parents, he never ever, ever, in

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Speaker 2: his entire career, has given his parents any money. He

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Speaker 2: maybe bought his dad a car, but that was it.

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Speaker 2: In fact, his parents give him money. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know that to be true of any professional athlete. I

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Speaker 2: would love to interview professional athletes and see how many

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Speaker 2: of them say that that's their experience because his parents

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Speaker 2: are the belief that we don't need yours, we have ours.

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Speaker 2: We're accomplished, we have our own. And that speaks to

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Speaker 2: their character and they what they wanted for him and

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Speaker 2: what they knew he could do. And boy is that impressive.

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Speaker 2: And I am impressed because most humans are very selfish,

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Speaker 2: like give me, gimme, gim me, gimme. Instand his parents

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Speaker 2: are like no. So I harped on that because that's

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Speaker 2: the thing for me, obviously, speaking from my trauma and

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Speaker 2: my family, not that I am anywhere near close to

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Speaker 2: as the type of income he has, but you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, The parents will be like, let me

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Speaker 2: hold something, but what you mean? Can I hold some back?

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Speaker 2: He talked about being uncomfortable but trying to get comfortable

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Speaker 2: with the fame, and he also talked about nagging injuries

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Speaker 2: that that really really plagued him throughout pretty much his

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Speaker 2: professional career. And it's great, but most importantly he's just

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Speaker 2: a great human. We need to talk about great humans.

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Speaker 2: I do lift my breatherss up. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 2: grant hell, ladies and gentlemen on Naked so first and foremos.

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Speaker 2: The podcast is really just me asking people that I'm

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Speaker 2: really huge of just questions and things that I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but I always like when I know someone,

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Speaker 2: I do like to begin with the story. And I

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Speaker 2: want to tell you the first time I met you.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when we first met and sat and talked?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that? It was a long time ago?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember I remember seeing you in Atlanta?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was I don't know what it finals something,

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Speaker 2: it was something some sporting yeah, and you sat with me,

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Speaker 2: and I believe it was Rashaan Ali. You just happened

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Speaker 2: to be there, I think. And I was meeting with

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Speaker 2: Rashaan Ali. Do you remember that?

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Speaker 1: Yep?

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Speaker 2: And I thought to myself, what a lovely gentleman, like,

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Speaker 2: how kind, how nice? And you and you know, you

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Speaker 2: know the the rap on you right, what people say

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Speaker 2: about you, which is all the things right. You're kind, nice, gentleman,

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Speaker 2: always a good guy, somebody you can count on, dependable.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever, for lack of a better term, feel

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Speaker 2: a way about being called a nice guy all the time?

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Speaker 1: You know? No, I mean I think you know it's

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Speaker 1: not a I can think of worse things to be called.

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Speaker 1: I found it amusing. I think during my career, particularly

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Speaker 1: in Detroit. You know, you got understand you're coming off

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Speaker 1: of at that time the bad boys, and the bad

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Speaker 1: Boys were, you know, hugely successful. Kind of get lost

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Speaker 1: in the conversation during that era you talk about the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: which I know you you're a Laker fan. I grew

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Speaker 1: up a Laker fan with the Lakers and Celtics of

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Speaker 1: the eighties, and then you know, we forget about the

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Speaker 1: Pistons and it goes right to the Bulls and Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in Detroit there was a real sort

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Speaker 1: of pride, understandably so for their accomplishments. And then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, this nice guy comes and I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes people confuse nice with weak and and and so

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Speaker 1: that you know, I won't say it bothered me, but

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Speaker 1: it was. It was one of those things where I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, you can still, you know, be competitive,

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Speaker 1: you can still you know, you don't get to the

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Speaker 1: NBA and get to an All Star level without having

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Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of a nasty streak, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a competitive streak, but we can be

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Speaker 1: nice after we beat you. Like that was sort of

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Speaker 1: the mindset and the attitude, and so but now, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the most important thing is to

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Speaker 1: be authentic and to be who you are, and I've

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Speaker 1: tried to do that. Haven't always been perfect, but I

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Speaker 1: think I try to come from a from an honest place.

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Speaker 2: Which leads me to what I was going to say.

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Speaker 2: There are tons of people who who pretend to be

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Speaker 2: tougher than they really are, right, and then there are

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Speaker 2: those who pretend to be really nice in this business

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Speaker 2: that we are in, and they're real. And it is

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Speaker 2: the rare quality where you meet someone where their reputation

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Speaker 2: of being that person matches who they are, and for you,

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Speaker 2: it has been that way in all rooms. And it's

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Speaker 2: not just so much to give you your props, but

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Speaker 2: for me that's a I feel like that's an honor

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Speaker 2: and a great feeling, because mostly people don't understand who

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Speaker 2: other people are, and the perception is usually not true

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Speaker 2: to who the character is, and for you it matches.

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Speaker 2: And I remember Chuck Charles Barkley telling this story. You

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Speaker 2: can tell me if it's true or not, but we

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Speaker 2: were at work. It was what you know, Chuck's Infamous Knights,

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Speaker 2: where he holds court in a bar, and I think

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Speaker 2: we might have been in Atlanta at the Four Seasons

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Speaker 2: and he was talking about money. It's when we were

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Speaker 2: doing the show arena and it was I believe it

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Speaker 2: was Draymond Chuck, you know, tear everybody the crew, and

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Speaker 2: he said, I remember Grant Hill's parents telling me. And

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Speaker 2: you know, by the way, the location may be wrong,

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Speaker 2: but it was in a bar somewhere everybody talking about

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Speaker 2: They might not have been there, but it was somewhere

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Speaker 2: around the world in the bar, and Chuck was holding

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Speaker 2: court and he was like, I remember Grant Hill's parents

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Speaker 2: telling me. When you become really rich and you have

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Speaker 2: money and you start to give it to family in front,

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Speaker 2: it's never enough. You do know that, it's never enough?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember your parents talking to Chuck about that

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Speaker 2: and money and and and what happens when you get

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Speaker 2: into this to this very extremely wild business of the

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Speaker 2: NBA and you become multi multi, multi millionaires and people

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Speaker 2: can read about all the money you make. Do you

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Speaker 2: remember that? I do?

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Speaker 1: I do remember that. It was nineteen ninety six, uh

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Speaker 1: and coincidentally it was in Atlanta at the Olympics and

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Speaker 1: we were we were at the Western or excuse me, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Western Hotel. No, the Omni Hotel, excuse me, the

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Speaker 1: Omni Hotel, I should know. And it wasn't a bar,

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Speaker 1: but it was in the in the eating area during

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Speaker 1: lunch exactly exactly. Well, if it had been later in

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Speaker 1: the night, it probably would have been.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: It was especially with Chuck correct. My parents would just

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Speaker 1: kind of post up there in the in the cafeteria

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Speaker 1: and you know, just see family members, see players, and

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Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time with with Charles, and

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Speaker 1: it was really kind of cute to see them kind

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Speaker 1: of bonding, and particularly my mom with with Chuck and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm thinking, you know, or here's my mom, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, come on, now, you know you're given advice

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Speaker 1: to Charles Barkley, like come on, you know. And but

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Speaker 1: it really resonated with him, and I've heard him say that,

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Speaker 1: I've heard him say it to other people in my

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Speaker 1: presence and how it really impacted him. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: it just makes me realize and appreciate how fortunate to

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Speaker 1: have that kind of counsel and to have that support

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Speaker 1: as I tried to navigate you know, celebrity and fame

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Speaker 1: and money and and all the trappings that come with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, one of the things my mom

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Speaker 1: used to always say, since we brought her up was,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was young, she would say this

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Speaker 1: a lot. I didn't quite understand it, but she would say,

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Speaker 1: don't feel fair, don't fear failure, fear success, because there's

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Speaker 1: more people who are ruined by it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, you know, I needed to hear that. It

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Speaker 1: needed to sort of like understand first of all, you know,

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Speaker 1: go for it, don't don't fear failing, but also understanding

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Speaker 1: what comes with success and so whether in our industry

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Speaker 1: and television. You know, there's loads of examples of some

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Speaker 1: of what you mentioned. We won't name names, but I

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Speaker 1: think through it all, just you know, my parents and

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Speaker 1: sort of my dad and his career just tried to

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Speaker 1: be you know, we came of age, or I came

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Speaker 1: of age. I'm a lot older than you, but I

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Speaker 1: came of age during to keep it real generation, and

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Speaker 1: so to me, I interpreted that like, let me be real,

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Speaker 1: let me be who I am, let me be authentic

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Speaker 1: and not try to put on or act a certain way.

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Speaker 1: And through it all, like, you know, I think I've

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Speaker 1: done that. I think I've tried to stay true to

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Speaker 1: who I am and not be something I'm not and

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Speaker 1: really kind of be proud of it, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and and not. You know, like that's what differentiates you.

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Speaker 1: That's what separates you in a lot of ways, is

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Speaker 1: you know, your authentic self. So so yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember Charles saying that, and and he talks about

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Speaker 1: it a lot. And you know, look, even now, you know,

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Speaker 1: my parents when when I'm with them, like they pick

429
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: up the tag and they you know, I still when

430
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: I would go see i'd go visit my parents even now,

431
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: Like my mom would give me cash and like the

432
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: roles like didn't change. And so you know, I go

433
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: to the ATM. I'm the generation I go to the

434
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: ATM you get the twenty dollar bills. And my mom,

435
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, she's of the generation where they go in

436
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: the bank. So she would give me. I would see

437
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: her at games. We'd play the Wizards and you know,

438
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: they'd come to games. They live in the DC area,

439
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: and she would give me like four hundred dollars in cash,

440
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: and so it was really cool. And I you know,

441
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: so I never have money or cash when I'm with

442
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: my parents because they always pick up the tab.

443
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 2: Okay, so I got to talk about you for five seconds.

444
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: I got to talk about you. First of all, that's

445
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: absolutely adorable. Second of all, that tells me a lot

446
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: about your parents, which I'm going to get into in

447
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: a second, because I remember when I would watch you

448
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: playing in college. I the the storylines would be you're

449
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: the next this, and who your parents were and how

450
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: the family that you came from. That was always one

451
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: of the many storylines, like you were I don't know,

452
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: you guys are the Huxtables, you know right at me,

453
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: Like it was the way in which it was portrayed.

454
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: So for you to say that, it's really adorable. So

455
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 2: I need to know what have we bought our parents,

456
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: because I know you're not taking four and five hundred

457
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: dollars for my homegirl like that all the time, Like you,

458
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 2: I know you botch you around my house. Come on, now,

459
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: don't be. They'll act like they just out here giving

460
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: you money.

461
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: No, they wouldn't know. So so my parents, so they

462
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: moved into this house that you know when I was

463
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: a senior in high school and they've been in the

464
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: house thirty plus years. Wow, I did buy let me say,

465
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: I bought my dad a car for his okay bottom

466
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: of Mercedes in ninety seven for his fiftieth and then

467
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: I bought my mom. I did buy her a car

468
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: at one point escalate, I think, but that's it, you know,

469
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: And so they don't want anything. Look, they're insulted that

470
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: if I were to pick up the tab or pay

471
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: for something, and so, you know, they're like, look, we

472
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: got our own money. We don't need you know, we

473
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: don't need your your handouts.

474
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: And so.

475
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, here's the thing that was fascinating

476
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: about that.

477
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: This whole conversation is fascinating. I don't know a black parent.

478
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Don't that don't be like, give me something like this

479
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: is fascinating.

480
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think I think it speaks to

481
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: to you know, Look, they're achievers and they've they've had

482
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: their own successes and and and so certainly I'm mindful

483
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: of that and they're proud of that. But also, you know,

484
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to judge or I don't want

485
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: to come off the wrong way, but I think the

486
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: fact that I've never liked, you know, took care of

487
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: them financially, and I would, I mean, I would if

488
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: I needed to. But I think it's it's allowed for

489
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 1: the relationship to be real and to be like they

490
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: never once bitten their tongue. They never like you know,

491
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: had to bite their tongue or hold back or change

492
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: the role of being a parent. And so you know,

493
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: I'm not perfect and sometimes I miss I make mistakes I.

494
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: Heard I never know.

495
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. I don't believe that. My parents

496
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: and my wife would tell you, yes, I made a

497
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: lot of it. But you know, they've always like they've

498
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: been able to be straight shooters with me. And you know,

499
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: having people who tell you what you need to hear,

500
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: I think is so important as we talk about navigating

501
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: celebrity in life, and they've always done that. And and

502
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: so I think if they were on the quote unquote payroll,

503
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: that might compromise that a bit, that might make it difficult.

504
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that that's the case for

505
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: other people, but I just know, you know, money has

506
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: not changed the dynamics of our relationship, and that's something

507
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for.

508
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: You're for those who are listening. He is making a

509
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: very valid point that you can only understand it if

510
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: you've seen it. So in this business, I started out working.

511
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: In terms of when I decided to go strictly into sports,

512
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: I was working at the Tennis channel and I would

513
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: watch these literally, no lie, seventeen eighteen year old kids

514
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: who had lots of money, and they would control their

515
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: parents and their trainer and everybody else involved. And the

516
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: parents can really be themselves. The kids were running the

517
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: house that we're running the household because they have the money.

518
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: The dynamic shifts when the person with the money is

519
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: in control, right, even in this case. So I do

520
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: understand what you're saying. And I have seen the yes

521
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: men and women around said celebrity, said athlete, And you're right,

522
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: it changes how you all interact. I think though, that

523
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: is honorable and I and by way of background, your

524
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: father he went to Yale, Correct, he played in the league,

525
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 2: the NFL. Correct. Now, tell tell us a little bit

526
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: about the pressure, and also about your mom and what

527
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: she did in her own accomplishments, because I had to

528
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: be a lot of pressure growing up with these too,

529
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: these two parents who are achievers in their own right,

530
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

531
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, Look my dad, you know, my grandfather, my

532
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: paternal grandfather, had a you know, second grade education and

533
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: so you know, for him, he always emphasized, you know,

534
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: the importance of education. And one thing my dad, you know,

535
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: would always share was that, you know, my grandfather bought

536
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: him some encyclopedias when he was a kid, and and

537
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: so anyway, education and I think for that generation, I mean,

538
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: education was obviously because it was denied to us, it

539
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: was all, you know, it was definitely emphasized. And then

540
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: my dad won a scholarship to go to a boarding school,

541
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: which he didn't want to go to, but his father

542
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: made him go. And I think that really changed, as

543
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: he would say, the trajectory of his life. And so

544
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: now he arrives as a ninth grader and all these

545
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: kids are talking about Ivy League schools, and so it

546
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: was an Ivy League sort of prep school, which you know,

547
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: he excelled in sports and eventually went on to Yale

548
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: and played in the NFL thirteen years. And then my mom,

549
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, she grew up in segregated South you know,

550
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: never never really met or had a conversation with somebody white,

551
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: and then went to you know, Boston, Massachusetts, and went

552
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: to Wellesley and was one of five black young women

553
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: at the school. And so that was a bit of

554
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: a of a culture shock, but you know, I think

555
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: for both of them, you know, being taken out of

556
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: their comfort zone in an education educational environment in higher

557
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: education and secondary education, I think it really kind of

558
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: opened their eyes. And you know, my mom went on

559
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: and she had her own corporate consulting firm for thirty

560
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: years on Capitol Hill, and you know, we joke she

561
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: she's uh, she's suttle on a number of corporate boards

562
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: like Nextel, Sprint, Sprint next to Wendy's, the Carlile Group.

563
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: She went into the National Association of Corporate Directors Hall

564
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: of Fame, and so she likes to say that, you

565
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: know that, uh, you know, we're not the only ones

566
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. She's in the Hall of

567
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Fame too, So you know, she's she's been sort of

568
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: the star of the family and certainly had a great

569
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: business career. So growing up, there were expectations, Uh there

570
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: were also I think their example and the access, uh

571
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: and the exposure that they provided was invaluable, But you know,

572
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: there was also pressure and you know, my parents were

573
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: pretty incredible, not just with my black peers, but with

574
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: all my peers, Like you know, I didn't see a

575
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: lot of my friends, black, white, or whatever who had

576
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: parents quite like mine.

577
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: And so.

578
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: I at times with feeling like trying to live up

579
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: to their success and trying to live up to what

580
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: they've accomplished. And that was, you know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen

581
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: years of age. You're trying to figure out who you are.

582
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: You know, you're going through that. You know, middle school

583
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: is not fun for anyone, I think when you look

584
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: back on it, but you know, it's sort of like wow, like,

585
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: no matter what I do, you know they've done it,

586
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, on a whole nother level. And so I

587
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: remember I did a science project. I don't know, I

588
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: can't remember a science fair or whatever science project. And

589
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: I remember I was talking to my mom and she

590
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, in nineteen sixty whatever, she did a

591
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: she won the National Science Fair with her project. And

592
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: I was like, man, like, I can't do anything, you know, and.

593
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: You come with your solar system, which you got Mars

594
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: and you got Saturn and toothpicks. That'll have been something

595
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: I did exactly.

596
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm just trying to get a B minus

597
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: like she's talking about. You know, she was, you know,

598
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: the best science project in the country. So I mean,

599
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: so they were achievers, but you know, they always tried

600
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: to empower me. They always try to you know, my

601
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: mom and my dad have always been my biggest fans

602
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: and supporters. And I do think, and I talk about

603
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: a little bit in the book, but I think I

604
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: think basketball kind of helped validate it defined me and

605
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: gave me confidence and really helped me grow into who

606
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: I became. And but yeah, no question, they were achievers

607
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: and that was like whoa like this is? You know, Yeah,

608
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to I'm just I'm just trying to

609
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: like not have seas on my report.

610
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: Card, you know, and do not go anywhere more stories

611
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: with Greg Hill and how he is living in this

612
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: space when we come back. You can fast forward through

613
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: the commercial break too.

614
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: Okay.

615
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Every champion and Kerry Champion is to be a champion

616
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 3: of Champion and carry chappion and carry chat. Be out

617
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: a champion and carry chapion and carry chat. Great, it's

618
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 3: the sports and entertainment can make it weird. Every Champion

619
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: and the Cary Chappy is to to be a champion,

620
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: a champion, the Carey Chappi and they play got a Champion,

621
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: The Carey Chapion and cared.

622
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: Entament get Nae Working Welcome Back. Grant Hill is on

623
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: the podcast He's Naked in your own right, and I'm

624
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: sure they tell you this. You are so accomplished and

625
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: you talk about I mean, look, part owner of a team,

626
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: art collector, that is that that people know of. I'll

627
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: get into that, but but not only that, an author, right,

628
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: you have a book, ever memoir game, and I think

629
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: for me that has to be one of the hardest

630
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: things to do to sit down and write about yourself

631
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: and be very honest and authentic and know that people

632
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: will read it and judge you. And you do talk

633
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: about confidence and how the game of basketball gave you that.

634
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: I always thought, this is my observation. I am not

635
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: a psychologist, but watching you, watching you in college, watching

636
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: you play, there was always this quiet and I don't

637
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: want to say brooding, because that wasn't the but contemplation.

638
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: I always felt like you were consistently in thought, and

639
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: not just about the game, but just like heavy thought.

640
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: And I always wondered what was going through your mind

641
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 2: during that time. And I don't know if it was

642
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: that you might have been frustrated, with injuries. Right, I

643
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: don't know if you ever thought that people, you know,

644
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: if you got the respect that you deserved. I don't.

645
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I always thought you were always contemplating.

646
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: Am I wrong? No? You could be honest. I could

647
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: be wrong.

648
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: No, No, I think I'm a thinker. I think I

649
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: I you know, I think personality will. I mean, look,

650
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: I'm in media, so you know, we're paid to talk

651
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: and have an opinion. And but I think my nature

652
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: is it is to be to myself and somewhat introverting.

653
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: And if I'm in a public setting, I'm more at

654
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: ease and more comfortable observing and and you know, instead

655
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: of being on you know, like that I can do it.

656
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: But that's not something where you know, like we talked

657
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: about Charles, Charles likes the whole court like he he

658
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: gets energy from doing that. That is draining to me.

659
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: And so I think that combined with being an only child,

660
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: like you're accustomed to being lost in your thoughts and

661
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: and sometimes that that can you know, that can be

662
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: a hindrance, you know, like that can can you can

663
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: get you know, too caught up and over analyzing things

664
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: and looking at things from every standpoint. But yeah, I

665
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: mean I think I'm I'm I think by nature that's

666
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: who I am. I think at different stages of my career,

667
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: you know, when I got hurt and I came back.

668
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, early on in my career, my

669
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: career was was kind of all over the map in

670
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: terms of what I experience. But you know, there was

671
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: a there was an interesting how do I put it,

672
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: I was I was kind of uncomfortable with the limelight

673
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: and the attention. I didn't run from it. I didn't

674
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: do Tim Duncan and just keep quiet and play. I

675
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,959
Speaker 1: leveraged it. I monetized it. You know, I made money

676
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: for off of it. But it was never something that

677
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: that I was comfortable with. And and so part of that,

678
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: as I'm private, part of that is I just don't

679
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: like the attention on me. Uh and so what do

680
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: I do? I write a book?

681
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: You know.

682
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 1: But but you know, I mean I think get pretty

683
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: close to that. I think I think that's a good assessment.

684
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: If you were no, but what you just said makes sense,

685
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: right you You maybe there was a discomfort. Maybe that's

686
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: what I was thinking. I was like, I don't think

687
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: he likes all this attention. However, however, for someone who

688
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: doesn't like all the attention, it came to you in

689
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: a huge way. The face of n C double A,

690
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, the face of you know,

691
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: the NBA. At one point, right you come out and

692
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: and people there's there. There was no wrong that you

693
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: could do, in my opinion, and I felt like, either

694
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: he's uncomfortable with this, or this is a lot of pressure.

695
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: Maybe it is all of the above. But then grant

696
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: you have an acting career. You popping up on TV shows,

697
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 2: all my little favorite sitcoms and stuff. So I was like,

698
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: he gonna be actor?

699
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: Why you?

700
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: Why? Why you?

701
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: Why you?

702
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: Why you acting? If you uncomfortable, tell me, tell me,

703
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: tell me why you an actor?

704
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think I think I realized.

705
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: So it was interesting. I was with my handlers as

706
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: obviously no fan. I was with my people before the

707
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: draft and the summer before my rookie year, and I remember,

708
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, one they said you have a chance to

709
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: be a brand, and I didn't understand what that meant.

710
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: I knew what a brand was. I knew, like you know,

711
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: I equated a brand to McDonald's or Nike or or whatever.

712
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: I didn't think any individual was a brand. You know,

713
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: it just shows you how much you know, everyone now

714
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: is very brand awareness, uh, you know, conscious of their brand.

715
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: But back then that was something that you know, I

716
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: had to process. And then I remember, like, you know,

717
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: I remember, like I want. I said to everybody, I said,

718
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: I want to know and I want to feel what

719
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: it's like to be Michael Jordan. And what I meant

720
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: by that was to me, he embodied excellence. He won,

721
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: he was the darling of Madison Avenue, he was the

722
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: face of the league, and so to me, he was

723
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: the standard and really kind of, you know, has been

724
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: sort of the standard ever since. I mean, Lebron and

725
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: others have been able to take that maybe and go

726
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: to a whole nother level in some respects, but like

727
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: Jordan was the gold standard and and so so to

728
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: me that that meant I was doing. I was, you know,

729
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: I was on a trajectory of success. I was going

730
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: to be go down as maybe one of the greatest,

731
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: and so all that that encompass was what I wanted,

732
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: or at least I told myself I wanted. But then

733
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: as I got into it, I wasn't like I didn't

734
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: necessarily enjoy all of it. I didn't enjoy all the attention.

735
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy you know, going out and all eyes

736
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: on me. You know, I had a bucket list you

737
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: have to go on, like living single, like you have

738
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, a funny story with that is that? So

739
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: they asked me to come on. I said I would

740
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: do it. I flew out to la and you know,

741
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: they they'd have a table reading, like on a Thursday,

742
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: and then you'd rehearsed through the weekend, and then you

743
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: might have a live studio, live recording. So they send

744
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: the script to the hotel and I don't read it.

745
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm not reading. We got a whole

746
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: week of rehearsal. So I show up at the reading

747
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: and as we're going through it, I'm like, oh crap,

748
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: Like I'm in a lot of scenes, Like I'm like,

749
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: I've sitting there like and then I have to like

750
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: I gotta kiss and I gotta They got me singing

751
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting there like how am I gonna pull

752
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: this off? Like I had? And so then it hit me.

753
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: I was like, it's I don't think I can do this,

754
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: like and I remember I called my agent and I

755
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: was like, I need to back out of this, like

756
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: it's too much, and they were like, it's too late.

757
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: They've already committed. You know, they're on a schedule. And

758
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: so everybody was great, you know, Dana Queen Latifa, she

759
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: was awesome the whole said. I'm not a like I

760
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: wasn't a PDA guy like at that point, like I

761
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: didn't hold hands. I never like I didn't like to

762
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: kiss in front of people, like you know, and now

763
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, so we go through the week, we reheard

764
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: and it's really funny. I had a multiple sort of

765
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: kissing scenes with Latifa.

766
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: By the way, that was so rude of them to

767
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: do that to you, because they were like, let's see

768
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: him differently than he normally is. That's rude.

769
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: I don't like it now, but you know, I don't mind.

770
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: I mean, in the long run, being taken out of

771
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: your com for zone is a good yeah. And so

772
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: but we never rehearsed the kids. There was one kiss

773
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: when we're on the couch and it was like one

774
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: of those things where like you just kind of stay

775
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: stare at each other and then you just go for it.

776
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: And but we never went for it, and rehearsal, and

777
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: so I didn't know, like is this a real kiss?

778
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: Is a fake? Kid?

779
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: Like?

780
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know.

781
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 2: You didn't ask the way time out, time out, time out?

782
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: I need a fifteen You didn't ask those questions. You

783
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 2: didn't say, do I have to look at you and

784
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: then go do a real kiss? Because I would think

785
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: I would establish at first, like is it tongue? Is

786
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: it not? Time like, you didn't ask those questions.

787
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: No, that wasn't you know, that wasn't established. And and

788
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: maybe I just, you know, like I said, I didn't

789
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: want to act like I didn't know what was happening,

790
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: so I just kind of went with the flow. Uh,

791
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: and so, and then the scene was I won't say

792
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: whether it was a real kiss or not. I'll you know,

793
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: out of respect, I won't say what that was or Okay,

794
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: we just said that the scene was we kissed too dark.

795
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: So it went to commercial and they were gonna cue

796
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: us when when it was done. So so we never

797
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: rehearsed that. We just rehearsed up until that. So then

798
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm telling the story. But anyway, so

799
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: then we actually live studio audience were in the midst

800
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: and then they don't cure us, and so it's like

801
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: for a minute, and so they would be so anyway,

802
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: that so thankful we only had to do it one time.

803
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: But I say all that to say that, like, I

804
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: was not a PDA guy. I was not someone like

805
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: acting and here I am like in every scene and

806
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: uh and every once in a while they replay it

807
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: because I you know, you'll see on Twitter people will

808
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: talk about all the Latifa scene and you know whatever whatever.

809
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: But but yeah, I mean that that that was for

810
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: a minute and they didn't cure you guys to stop. Yes,

811
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: I think that might have been. I think she might

812
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: have said, don't cute me.

813
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: Look I don't know.

814
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: She was like he fine, and I'm just like whatever, Well,

815
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You don't want to hear that.

816
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: I look, it was it was. It was a fun

817
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: experience and you know it was, like I said, it

818
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: was one of those buckets. I will say this. I

819
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: was never asked to come back and ask so clearly

820
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: it was a one and done opportunity.

821
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: Don't mind me. I am silly. I am having too

822
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: much fun with this story. I totally understand that I

823
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: have you know, the nature of the business people ask

824
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: you to act, and you're like, I'm not an actor,

825
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: and so when they ask us to do these things

826
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: that take us out of our comfort zone, I don't

827
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: like it. I know, I agree with you. It makes me.

828
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: I was like, I can be myself, but that's not

829
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: because like it's not the same, it's two different things.

830
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: But I'm also looking. You were on an episode of

831
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 2: Home Improvement. You did a lot of little things, and

832
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: so all of these things not necessarily your favorite, but

833
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: you did them because you thought that was what was

834
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: required of you at the time. Could we get you

835
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 2: in a Tyler Perry movie at this moment as an actor,

836
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 2: if Tyler Perry came to you and say, grant my man, listen.

837
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: At this year for you. Yeah. Look, I mean I've

838
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: grown since then, and as long as it just in general,

839
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: like I'm more comfortable. You know. I was young. I

840
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: was twenty two on a living single. But look I

841
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: was in I was actually in a small part in

842
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: a Will Packer movie, which one the movie with Taraji

843
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: Henson What What Women Want? No, What Men Want?

844
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, And there was a.

845
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: Poker scene with Shaq and me and a few other

846
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: people and we So that was and I actually, you know,

847
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm not proud of it, but actually cursed. So it

848
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: was kind of funny seeing me like kind of like

849
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: go off like I did. But that was fun to

850
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,959
Speaker 1: see the whole process. And Will is a good friend

851
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: of mine, and Will kind of you know, allowed me

852
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: to be in a movie although it was a real

853
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: small part, and he hasn't asked me to come back.

854
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: So clearly, once again, one and done. But you know what,

855
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: I can check it off and say that that that

856
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: I did it.

857
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: So Hollywood is unnoticed. Grant is ready, he is, he

858
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,959
Speaker 2: is willing to put himself out there. Do you okay,

859
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: so you said you had to curse? Do you curse

860
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: in general?

861
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: Never? Yeah, I mean I I from time to time,

862
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: I will. I try not to, but you know, sometimes

863
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: you just it comes out.

864
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: Do you drink?

865
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, here's a funny thing. Here's a funny thing.

866
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: I didn't drink until I met my wife. Oh lord,

867
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: And so that sounds horrible when you say, like you know,

868
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: I didn't, but no, seriously, like I didn't drink, Like

869
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: I went through college and my first couple of years,

870
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: I didn't drink at all, and then one day she said,

871
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: we have to change this. If we're going to survive,

872
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: we're going to have to change this. And so so now, yeah,

873
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, have the asional cocktail.

874
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 2: I love her for that, because that's real. I don't

875
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: trust nobody who don't drink. It's get around me as

876
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: they use it. I used to be in a relationship

877
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: with somebody for a very long time and he never drank,

878
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: and I'd like, at least take a sip of wine.

879
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: Don't have me out here by myself looking crazy. So

880
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: I appreciate I appreciate that she she made you have

881
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: a cocktailer too, speaking of your wife, beautiful, beautiful voice,

882
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: beautiful soul, beautiful to me, I had to toe, how

883
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: did you all meet?

884
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: So, you know, to me, it was was from Windsor, Ontario,

885
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: which is I like to say it's a suburb of Detroit.

886
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: It is.

887
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: And uh, even though it's a you know, foreign it's Canada.

888
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: But it actually kind of started Isaiah Thomas my second year,

889
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: was getting his jersey retired at the Palace and Anita

890
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: Baker sang the national anth and so afterwards there was

891
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: a reception at the palace and you know, I went

892
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: up there and all the old bad boys were there

893
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: and I got a chance to meet her and her

894
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: then and so you know, she was I don't know,

895
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: somehow the conversation. She was like, I'm sure you're breaking

896
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: all the hearts or you know whatever. You got a girl,

897
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, And I was like, nah, you need to

898
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: hook me up, just kind of casually saying that, jokingly

899
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: saying that. And so I think a week later, Anita

900
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: Baker was at I don't know, Soul Train Awards, one

901
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: of the award shows, and she met Tama. And this

902
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: is when Tamia first came out. I think she was

903
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: on Quincy's album You Put a Move in My Heart.

904
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: And to me, I said, I'm from the area. I

905
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: grew up a big fan of yours. And so Anita

906
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I know just the person for you,

907
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, this is who it is. And so

908
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: ta Mia. I swear she didn't know who I was

909
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: at that time. But I'm like, yeah, right, I'm joking

910
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: when I say that.

911
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I been like, yeah right too, like, oh,

912
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: you don't know me.

913
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: So fast forward, we met in Detroit maybe later that year,

914
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean we've we've you know, pretty much

915
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: been together ever since ninety six. We met in May

916
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: of ninety six, and you know, it was interesting, Like

917
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: I didn't think that I was going to jump into

918
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: a relationship, a serious relationship, you know, I just I

919
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: felt like to be an elite player, you know, it

920
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: was a sacrifice and a dedication. I didn't know if

921
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: I could manage having a relationship. So I think I

922
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: was going to do the Derek Jeter thing, like that

923
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: was sort of what you know before Derek Jeter. I'm

924
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: older than Derek, but like I was just gonna sort

925
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: of casually date until I was older and then settle

926
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: down and you know, you make plans and God laughs.

927
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: But we instantly were smitten and kind of fell in

928
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: love and got into a relationship. And that wasn't what

929
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: I thought. But you know, you know you instantly when

930
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: you meet somebody and you know it's right, it's right.

931
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: And it was interesting because you know, we got young,

932
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: We got married, got married in ninety nine. She was

933
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: twenty four, is twenty five, twenty six, And I think

934
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: there were people, even friends of mine, were like why

935
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: are you getting married? Like dude, like what are you doing,

936
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, and and it was when you know, you know,

937
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: it's been an incredible journey. And twenty three years we

938
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: just celebrated last week and yeah, no, thank you, thank you.

939
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: And so you know, we've I couldn't imagine you know,

940
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 1: going through the injuries and the struggles and the highs

941
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: and the lows. And then you know, conversely with her,

942
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: like you know what she's going through, she's you know,

943
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: she has a book, she has a story. And it's

944
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: been fun. It's been a blast. Our kids are you know,

945
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: are older now twenty and fifteen, so parenthood has been

946
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: great and watching them grow and and then sort of

947
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: looking ahead, you know, like you empty nesters, you know,

948
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: like now you kind of get your life back a

949
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, you can do things, and so

950
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: but it's been it's been awesome. And so I always

951
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: when I see Anita Baker, I think her and.

952
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: What a great story. Anita Baker hooked us up. And

953
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: then you guys just so happened you had met her

954
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: before she had her own situation situations over like this

955
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: is a story. First of all, Like again I go

956
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 2: back to the beginning of the podcast when I tell

957
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: you you're a rare breed because I couldn't imagine being

958
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: in the NBA, being twenty four years old, having access

959
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: to just about any in terms of dating anybody you

960
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: could date, because that's probably what it was for you.

961
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: And your friends are like, dude, you're gonna get married?

962
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: What you giving up?

963
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: All of this?

964
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: You're giving up this, You give up this lifestyle. And

965
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: it's almost like I always laugh because men act like

966
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: when their homeboy gets married, it's like they put him

967
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: in front of a fire range and the good times

968
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: are over. Like, man, I guess you it's a funeral.

969
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 2: It's a funeral for the your frands act like it's

970
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: a funeral when you get married, and the women.

971
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Are like, I'm so excited. It's so exciting.

972
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: But I was so beautiful. It's a beautiful story. And

973
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: what's even better, you know, and nothing's perfect, but it's

974
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: always a beautiful story to see a couple in the

975
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: limelight make it because it cannot be easy doing it

976
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: without having fame, you know what I mean, So imagine

977
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: doing it with fame. I couldn't imagine how difficult it

978
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 2: was for you all at that time. And then I

979
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: know in your book you talk about the injuries and

980
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 2: all you went through. You played nineteen years, yeap, nineteen years.

981
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 2: Was there a time that you wanted to and share

982
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: this with them when you really thought, I want to

983
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: retire before the nineteen years or you kept going back

984
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: because you felt like I still have more to give

985
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: the game.

986
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there was only a real small window

987
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: where I thought about retiring, and that was you know,

988
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: after my you know, I had staff infection and you know,

989
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: with septic and the whole ordeal that was. That was tough.

990
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: For like two or three months, I was like, you

991
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: know what, I almost died because of my you know,

992
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: desire to play. And you know, maybe some incompetent medical

993
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: advice uh in there as well, and it's not you know,

994
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 1: it's not worth it. But but yeah, I mean I

995
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: I was pretty relentless about wanting to get back and play.

996
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think I think one,

997
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: I love I love the game. You know, I loved playing,

998
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: and I knew that once you walk away from it,

999
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: like it's over and something you commit your whole life

1000
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: to and something you are passionate about and and just

1001
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, I think for anyone, just in general, to

1002
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: retire it's not an easy transition, and so like I

1003
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: wanted to exhaust everything before I walked away. And uh

1004
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: so in the midst of all of that, you know,

1005
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: I kept saying, like, Okay, I'm gonna make up for it.

1006
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: On the back end, I'm gonna play till I'm forty,

1007
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: and I promise you that day I turned forty, my

1008
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: last year with the Clippers, I hurt my knee. And

1009
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: now it was it was the third knee injury in

1010
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: a year, but it was like like it was a

1011
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: third knee injury on the same knee, but I heard

1012
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: it and I was out for like three or four months,

1013
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: and it was like, man like I used to always

1014
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: say when i'm I'm gonna make up for it and

1015
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: play till I'm forty. And the day I turned forty,

1016
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: I get hurt. Yeah, and so I should have said

1017
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: I should have said fifty and but but yeah, no,

1018
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I forgot the question. Forgive me.

1019
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm going on to telegic.

1020
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 2: But it's just like, sometimes it's hard to walk away

1021
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: from something you love. And I said, did you ever

1022
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 2: feel like you said when you had staff infection, you

1023
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 2: thought for a free time and then you kept playing

1024
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: because you felt like you had something to give the

1025
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: game or you just loved it. You couldn't imagine your

1026
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: life without that routine, without the travel, like that becomes

1027
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: that becomes addictive, and it just becomes your lifestyle. You think,

1028
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 2: what am I going to do now? Like that's a

1029
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: real serious question for a lot of athlete to who retire,

1030
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: who walk away from the game, Like what's next for me?

1031
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1032
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I think, okay, a couple of things, yes,

1033
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: no question, the desire to keep playing, and I think

1034
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: as I did transition into retirement and really the process

1035
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: of writing this book and even just kind of living

1036
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,760
Speaker 1: with the book and then you know, kind of building

1037
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 1: up to the release of the of the book. You know,

1038
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: I think this, you know, I think I realized that

1039
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: in sort of time to unpack some things, I got

1040
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: a lot on my plate and a lot that I'm doing,

1041
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of that has to do

1042
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: with maybe things not ending or going the way I

1043
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 1: would have liked them to have gone during my career.

1044
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: And so this like incredible drive to like succeed and

1045
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: to accomplish something. And you know, to me, sometimes with

1046
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: joke like early in retirement, She's like, man, I thought

1047
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: retirement was like, you know, a rocking chair and lemonade.

1048
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: And I was going and hustling, like she said, you're

1049
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: you're hustling like you're broke, like you know, and and

1050
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: I would just you know, got to stay hungry and

1051
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: you know, you got to strike while the iron's hot

1052
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: or whatever cliche you use. Like I just and now

1053
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: that I kind of take time to survey everything, and

1054
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,439
Speaker 1: I like where I'm at and I like what I'm doing,

1055
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: but I feel like I feel like I didn't deal

1056
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: with sort of what happened or what didn't happen. And

1057
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: I think as a result, yeah, and so there's like

1058
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: this like I didn't I didn't win championships, I didn't

1059
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 1: stay on this trajectory of where I was going with

1060
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: my career. And really the process of writing the book

1061
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: really kind of helped me realize that. And so I

1062
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: think this drive, Like so the drive, you know, the

1063
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: drive can be good. You know, we reward ambition, we

1064
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: rewarded chief, but I haven't. I'm learning to the work

1065
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: life balance part. And that's something I don't think i've

1066
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: done a good job of and so I'm trying to

1067
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: sort of correct that and be more intentional about you know,

1068
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: it's okay to work hard, but it's also you know,

1069
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: you got to have balance in your life and and

1070
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: so so anyway, the book I think helped me with

1071
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, coming to that realization of acually very.

1072
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 3: Champion and Cary Champion is to be a champion, a

1073
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 3: champion and carry chapion and carry chappy out. A champion

1074
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: and carry chapion and carry chap afraid it is the

1075
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 3: sports and entertainment canneke it weird, Harry Champion and carry

1076
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 3: Champion is to be a champion, a champion and carry

1077
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 3: champion nigger compaity Yota Champion and carry champion and carry

1078
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: champiray afraid of the sports and entertainment cannetet weird.

1079
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 2: I can't even understand what it would mean right too.

1080
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: Went on the collegiate level, and we'll talk about college

1081
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: and broad strokes in a minute. For me, the college

1082
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 2: game and your contribution, but not to win on a

1083
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 2: professional level seems to be painful for so many players.

1084
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 2: But then I look at players like Kobe and he

1085
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: still regrets not getting one over Jordan. You know what

1086
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: I mean, like Bay rest in peace, that was his

1087
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: Like God, I hate I had to retire before I

1088
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: couldn't even get the number the same or one over Jordan.

1089
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 2: So do you think most players feel that way or

1090
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: is it a special type of player like a grand

1091
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: heel or a I think of great players like Vince

1092
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: Carter who didn't win or even shocked for that matter,

1093
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 2: he didn't want a chip, but they contribute to the

1094
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: game in such a way and they're still Hall of

1095
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 2: famers as you are, and still considered the best at

1096
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: what they did during that time. Do you ever make

1097
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: peace with the fact that you didn't get a championship

1098
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: in the NBA?

1099
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I can't speak for those I mean,

1100
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: I know Vince and Chuck very well. I don't I

1101
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: haven't had a sort of a deep naked conversation with

1102
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: them on this subject matter, but I can speak to myself.

1103
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought I had I thought I was good,

1104
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: Like I thought that I was at peace with my

1105
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: career and what happened and went unfolded, and I think

1106
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: I realized that maybe I'm not totally at peace, and

1107
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: there's that void and Okay, what do you replace that

1108
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: void with and you know, some people can have a

1109
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: void in something, and you know, it can be something

1110
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: toxic or something dangerous, can be drugs out whatever. I mean.

1111
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: But I just think, like I think, like I said,

1112
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: in recent years, I realized, like it's it's this like

1113
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: incredible desire to prove myself to myself, you know in

1114
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: a way, and so learning to kind of manage that

1115
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: and and you know, understanding that because I think what happens.

1116
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't speak for those guys, but I

1117
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: think I think sometimes we naturally focus on what we

1118
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: didn't do, you know, or what we don't have, sure,

1119
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: and and as opposed to really sort of having a

1120
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: feeling of gratitude and appreciation for what you do have.

1121
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: And you know, when I was in Detroit, and you know,

1122
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: I was doing all these things, and I had a

1123
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: lot of individual success and on and off the court,

1124
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: I didn't give myself permission to enjoy it because we

1125
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: weren't winning. We weren't like, we didn't win, and I

1126
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: blamed myself for us not winning. So I didn't really

1127
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: like appreciate the good and appreciate what was happening. And

1128
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, to me, like like at Duke, you love

1129
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: or hate Duke whatever. I mean, that's one thing, but

1130
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: like it was all about winning, and that was what

1131
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: we were conditioned to believe. I didn't care about individual stats,

1132
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't care. Like it was just whatever

1133
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: we have to do to win. And then I go

1134
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: into the NBA and all this other stuff, which is great,

1135
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: but I didn't care. But like, to me, the most

1136
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: important thing was winning, and we weren't winning, and so

1137
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't enjoy all this other stuff. And so the

1138
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: writing of the book forces you to go back and

1139
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: live in certain moments and live, you know, and confront

1140
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: things good and bad about your past. I didn't appreciate

1141
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: how good I mean that sounds real arrogant, but like

1142
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: I didn't appreciate how good I was when I was

1143
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: in Detroit because we weren't winning. And now I go

1144
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: back at it and I look at it, and even

1145
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: watching old tapes, I would watch games to kind of

1146
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: conjure up you know, memories and things whatever, and I'm like, damn,

1147
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: I was actually all right, Like I was. You know,

1148
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it, you know, more than I know.

1149
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I didn't see that or I didn't

1150
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: look at it that way at the time because I'm

1151
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: chasing Isaiah. You know, Isaiah was a gold standard. I'm

1152
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: chasing I looked at Isaiah's banner before every game like

1153
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: that to me was what I was pursuing. And anything

1154
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: less was was you know, it was was was was uh,

1155
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, a failure and so and so anyway to

1156
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: go back with you know, look at it through a

1157
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: different lens with with you know, greater appreciation. You know,

1158
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: it was it was surprising. I didn't expect it, but

1159
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: it was almost one of those things was like whoa,

1160
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and I in a way I kind of

1161
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: needed that, like I needed to see that and realize

1162
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: that because you know, I looked at you know, those

1163
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: years as you know, as almost a failure. It's a

1164
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: total failure. I don't know if I'm making sense, but.

1165
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: You're making complete sense. Everything you're saying is to me,

1166
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: the mirror this back for a second, because this is

1167
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: a message. No matter when we're in the midst of

1168
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: whatever it is we're trying to achieve, we're doing such

1169
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: great things, but we're such a society of more, more,

1170
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: more and more, and we don't know how to appreciate

1171
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: the moment as opposed to thinking about more and more

1172
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 2: and more. And I think that goes across every field,

1173
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: whether you're an NBA player, you're a journalist, you're a you,

1174
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: you know your corporate work, whatever it is, you're a producer,

1175
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, and then you look back on

1176
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: it because on the outside looking in, like I I,

1177
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: I would be hard pressed to tell you that you

1178
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: didn't help me love college basketball. It would be a lie.

1179
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: When I when I when I think about why I

1180
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 2: fell in love with college basketball even before I got

1181
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 2: to college, it was because of players like you and

1182
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 2: Christian Latner and and you can go fab five like

1183
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,919
Speaker 2: you can go down a list right of like why

1184
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 2: I fell in love with this amateur you know in

1185
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: air quotes game and and it was because of you

1186
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: like you were. You're a part of what I call Americana, right,

1187
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: that's pop culture. If we did a book on what

1188
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: the NCAA was and what it is today or how

1189
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 2: glorious and period seemed back then before we all knew

1190
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 2: what it was, you would be in that book. And

1191
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: so my question for you now, like you look at

1192
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: the college game. Coach k just retired I know that

1193
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 2: you have an affinity for him. I'm watching him, Roy Williams,

1194
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: Jay Wright, all of these ogs, these coaches right for

1195
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 2: folks who are listening, Jay Wright coach was head coach

1196
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 2: at Villanova, Roy Williams U and c A coach k Duke.

1197
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: You're watching these coaches retire within a matter of a

1198
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: year or two of one another or whatever. It's because

1199
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: the game has changed. I'll pun intended because that's the

1200
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: name of your book. So you look at the game

1201
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: now with nil, right, what do you think about the

1202
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: college These deals are getting crazy and I'm not mad,

1203
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 2: but I'm like, what does that mean? These kids have

1204
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: agents now before they even get to play their very

1205
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 2: first game. How do you feel about that?

1206
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean the state of intercollegiate athletics and

1207
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: really basketball. I think in college football in general is changing,

1208
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: and it's changing so quickly and rapidly that it's kind

1209
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: of hard to process. I think the game has really

1210
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: changed and evolved even prior to NIL. You talked about

1211
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: that sort of golden era in the nineties early nineties,

1212
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: and you know UNLV Vegas, all these great teams. You know,

1213
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 1: guys were there for more than one year. And so

1214
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: whether you loved or hated Duke, or loved or hated Carolina,

1215
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: or loved or hated the Fab five, you watched them

1216
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,919
Speaker 1: over multiple years and you saw, you know, you saw

1217
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: that story unfold. And now in an era where you know,

1218
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: these great guys and you know, leaving early one and done,

1219
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: you just don't have the same emotional attachment or connection

1220
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: with with with these teams because these players aren't there

1221
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: long enough. And now you throw in nil, you throw

1222
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: in the transfer portal. You know, I'm hearing that things.

1223
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: You know, in California, they may try to enact a

1224
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: law with you know, making it legal for pay for

1225
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: play at California universities, which would even change it even

1226
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: more so. And so it's it's it's kind of gone bonkers.

1227
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: It's like the wild wild West right now, and I

1228
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: think everybody is trying to figure out how to play

1229
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: in that sandbox. But you're seeing, you know, Roy Williams,

1230
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: Coach K Jay Wright, in the span of one year,

1231
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: all these legends, these icons who've really contributed to the

1232
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: game and have been hugely successful. I think part of

1233
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: it was age. I think Coach K is time, But

1234
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, Jay Wright was still young. Jay Wright still

1235
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: had a lot of runway.

1236
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 2: He well, is he here, he's sixty? Is that young?

1237
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, you know he's got another at least

1238
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: five years, you know. And and so it's it's scary,

1239
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: you know. And and I don't know what the future

1240
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: looks like. I don't know what five years from now

1241
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: looks like. But I think I think you potentially you

1242
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: see it, you know, U C L A U S C.

1243
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: I know you're in California going into the Big Ten now,

1244
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, some of that tradition that has been a

1245
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: part of college sports. With the realignment and such, it's changing,

1246
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's you know, I'm all for

1247
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: players having an opportunity to to profit, you know. And

1248
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember I wanted to buy my jersey

1249
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: from the Duke Bookstore and I wanted to give it

1250
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: to my dad for fathers, I don't know, give it

1251
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: to him for Christmas or whatever. And I went into

1252
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: the bookstore and it was like one hundred and twenty

1253
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: dollars for me to buy my jersey. And you know,

1254
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't go to the Athletic department to have them

1255
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: give me a jersey because that's a violation. And so

1256
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking like, Okay, I want a piece of

1257
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: the money that they're making off my I just wanted

1258
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: to be able to get my own jersey for free.

1259
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: Like that was what I was thinking in nineteen ninety two.

1260
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 2: And wait a second. In nineteen ninety two year jersey

1261
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 2: was one hundred and how much dollars to go buy

1262
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 2: for your dad?

1263
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: It was one hundred and something dollars, and I remember

1264
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: I bought it for my dad, and it just it

1265
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: dawned on me like wow, like like I wasn't even

1266
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: thinking like, man, like they're making this. I was just

1267
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: like I got to pay for my own jersey, like

1268
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 1: I didn't. That didn't sit right with me. And now

1269
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: you fast forward to some of these nil deals where

1270
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 1: guys are making you know, they're making more money than

1271
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 1: the professionals make in some cases. And so it's right.

1272
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: So though, but it's an interesting dynamic, and I'm not

1273
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: saying it's wrong. I'm just saying it's an interesting dynamic,

1274
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: and I think people don't know how to take it

1275
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: and really how to navigate it. And so it's changing

1276
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: the landscape. It's changing as a coach, how you recruit,

1277
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: how you prepare, how you you know, when I came up,

1278
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: you know, coach k signed Christian Lightner one year, then

1279
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: he signed Bobby Hurley the next year. Then he signed me,

1280
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 1: and he felt like he had his big his point

1281
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: guard and then his wing player, and you know he

1282
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: filled in around that, and you know it gave us

1283
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: a chance to be successful. Well, obviously, you know, one

1284
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 1: and done. You can't prepare that way, at least he

1285
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: hasn't in the last decade. So you have to adapt

1286
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 1: and adjust with the times, which he did a great

1287
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: job of. But I think moving forward in football and

1288
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 1: basketball and really at all sports, you know these collectives

1289
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: you know are alumni, are they going to get involved

1290
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: in contribute? Are you going to allocate money for athletes?

1291
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it requires you to adapt and adjust

1292
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: if you want to be successful. And so it's a

1293
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: little bit scattered, it's a little bit of the wild

1294
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: wild West. But I do think in time, I'm hopeful

1295
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: that it'll kind of, you know, it'll get to a

1296
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: point where everyone can operate in this new model that's

1297
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:14,839
Speaker 1: been created.

1298
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 2: I think it's very I think what you said was

1299
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 2: probably the most simple but most articular thing. It's hard

1300
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: to respond because you don't know what it is, but

1301
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 2: you're correct in terms of it's getting more complicated. And

1302
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 2: that's why I think I'm seeing like that's why I

1303
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 2: think Jay Wright left. I'm a guess. I just feel

1304
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 2: like he was like, I don't want to deal with that.

1305
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 2: This this is not the game that I know. And

1306
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 2: if I have to start being someone who is an

1307
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 2: expert on nil deals, that part I can't give my

1308
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: brain to, right. I just want to focus on x's

1309
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 2: and o's and get a chip. That part gets so

1310
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 2: complicated because it's so new and there are no strict

1311
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 2: rules yet there's loopholes and kids can do this, and

1312
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:57,560
Speaker 2: kids could do that, And you talk about you. I

1313
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 2: want to UCLA and USC Right, they go to the

1314
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 2: big they want more money. But when I hear you

1315
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 2: tell me a nineteen ninety two year jersey costs one

1316
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty dollars and you just wanted it for free,

1317
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 2: I get infuriated. I get so angry and shout out

1318
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 2: to my man Ed O'Bannon, who I know could have

1319
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 2: used that money and still could to this day use

1320
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 2: that money. Right, like as he as he put him

1321
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 2: hisself and you know, quote unquote on the line to

1322
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: have this happen as it is. I think it's really

1323
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 2: interesting how it will affect the player themselves. I think

1324
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 2: you're right. I'm not invested in teams anymore. I don't

1325
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: know these kids' names like you do because you probably

1326
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 2: cover the tournaments, but you have to learn them before.

1327
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: I remember watching you know, Chuck and Kenny talk about

1328
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 2: these kids and it's a new one, a new star

1329
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 2: every year. You don't know these who are okay? Who

1330
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 2: is this?

1331
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: You know?

1332
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 2: How okay? Y'all behind the scenes, you get research packets

1333
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: and you're like, so, what's his name? And what do

1334
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: you know? Because it's so it just the turnover is

1335
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 2: you don't know who they are. It's so fast, the

1336
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 2: one and done. And that's what I will miss, right,

1337
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 2: I will say I will miss that because I am

1338
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 2: not invested like I used to be. Like I could

1339
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 2: watch you. I literally March Madness was my thing, Like

1340
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 2: that was where I wanted to be, watching you, Into

1341
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: Chips great, watching UCLA even when I was there, like

1342
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 2: this is I was invested, And now I find like

1343
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 2: all things, one thing is constant. All things change. So

1344
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 2: you look at the league NBA. All these players want

1345
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 2: to do is get to the league. Get to the league,

1346
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 2: get to the league. And Lebron has changed the game

1347
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 2: you mentioned him. Has he changed the game for the better?

1348
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: Leamon Schumpert is quoted as saying, Lebron poked it up

1349
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 2: for everybody when he went to Miami. So you what

1350
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 2: do you think about this new NBA, And we're gonna

1351
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 2: give to the old man. Lebron has he has? He

1352
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 2: has he made it for the better or for the worse.

1353
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know, look, I also I wear many hats,

1354
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 1: and then one of them is, you know, co owner,

1355
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: vice chairman of the Atlanta Hall.

1356
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 2: You can't get in particular exactly, yes, like don't get

1357
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 2: me in trouble.

1358
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, But I mean I think look,

1359
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: I mean, as you said all things, you said it

1360
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 1: better than I'm going to say it. But you know,

1361
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: all things change, and things grow and evolve, and as

1362
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: it relates to the NCAA, it's going through growth and

1363
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 1: change and sometimes that can be painful, but also sometimes

1364
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:40,560
Speaker 1: that's necessary. And Lebron, you know, look, Lebron, his accomplishments

1365
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 1: on the court speak for themselves. I think he came

1366
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 1: around in this sort of digital social media age, which

1367
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,959
Speaker 1: I think has been good and bad in some respects.

1368
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: Good in the sense that it only amplifies and you know,

1369
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 1: creates this connection and relationship ship with fans, gives him

1370
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,600
Speaker 1: a voice he doesn't need to go through, you know,

1371
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 1: a journalist to speak to an audience or to the world.

1372
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: I also think there's some some tough parts where you

1373
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: hear all the noise and you hear the backlash, you

1374
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:17,600
Speaker 1: hear the hate, or you see the hate, or you

1375
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: read the hate, you know when I play, you know,

1376
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: really it was only you know, the print media and

1377
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 1: you know sports talk radio, and you know there was

1378
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: a gauntlet of editors that you know, had to to to,

1379
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,759
Speaker 1: you know, to read through things before they were printed.

1380
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, I didn't necessarily listen to talk radio or

1381
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: sports talk radio in the nineties. Now, you know, someone

1382
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: gonna say Lebron, you know, and say something bad about

1383
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 1: his mom or his his wife or his kids. And

1384
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 1: these players today see that and and so that that's

1385
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: hard and we didn't have to endure that. But you know,

1386
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: I do think he stood on the shoulders of Michael Jordan,

1387
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:03,520
Speaker 1: and he took it to another level in terms of ownership,

1388
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: in terms of control, you know, in terms of really

1389
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 1: leveraging this platform you have in the NBA. The NBA

1390
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: is a global media and public relations firm. That's what

1391
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: they do well. They promote in market players all over

1392
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 1: the world. I remember when I did Inside Stuff and

1393
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: with Kristin Ledlow. We did it for a few years,

1394
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: and you know, we would we would tape it. First

1395
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: of all, she's a pro. I was learning at the time,

1396
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: but you know, it was a half hour Well I

1397
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: appreciate it. It was a half hour show. It would

1398
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: take us like an hour and a half of take

1399
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: like literally and.

1400
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 2: Mostly that's okay, Yeah, that's okay.

1401
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: We got to the first line. But they would do

1402
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: an international ending to the show every week, and and

1403
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: we would always kind of roll our eyes, like, oh,

1404
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: why do we have to do this, and blah blah blah.

1405
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: It was like a generic ending. And then I went

1406
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: to South Africa with my wife and we were there

1407
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: in like twenty sixteen, and it was October, so before

1408
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 1: the basketball season, and they're playing Inside Stuff in the

1409
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: hotel room and like I'm going around, you know, Johannesburg,

1410
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: and people are calling me mister inside stuff and so

1411
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: like to me, it's just like and so when we

1412
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 1: came back, we're like, hey, we got to get these

1413
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 1: international goodbyes, right, we get my makeup done. But like,

1414
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: it just speaks to how global the game is and

1415
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,560
Speaker 1: and Lebron, So, you know, I think the game's in

1416
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: a good place. I think Lebron is sort of a

1417
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: one of a kind athlete in a lot of ways.

1418
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll have another kind of Lebron

1419
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: who who just understands his power and his value and

1420
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: I think strategically made moves that really elevated his profile

1421
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 1: and his bottom line along the way. So I don't

1422
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 1: think it's a let me look, I tried to leave

1423
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: and go to Orlando, and Tim Duncan was gonna go,

1424
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:07,560
Speaker 1: and Tracy McGrady and you know, obviously Duncan didn't go,

1425
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 1: and I you know, I was hurt. But so leaving

1426
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: and going to Miami, he has that right. You know,

1427
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: he gets criticized, I think for it, but he has

1428
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: the right to do that as every player. And look,

1429
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: when my dad played, just understand this. So my dad

1430
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:28,680
Speaker 1: played for the Cowboys, and he left to go to

1431
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: the World Football League, which was a new, upstart league,

1432
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 1: and seventy five, I think around seventy four to seventy five,

1433
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 1: he got sued by the Cowboys and he ended up

1434
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 1: countersuing and went and he won. But that was a

1435
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,560
Speaker 1: period where athletes didn't have the right. They didn't have

1436
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: free agency. You weren't allowed to go elsewhere. When your

1437
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 1: contract expired. That team owned your rights, they could trade you,

1438
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: but you didn't have that opportunity. So you know, yeah,

1439
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: I mean we're standing on the shoulders of a giants

1440
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 1: who paid the way and made those sacrifices. So he

1441
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: had every right to go to Miami. He may not

1442
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: like how he went about it, but you know, he

1443
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: had every right to do that, and he had every

1444
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 1: right to go back to Cleveland and go to LA

1445
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 1: And but you know, he's been an incredible player and

1446
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:23,680
Speaker 1: incredible ambassador. He's delivered on the expectations, maybe even exceeding him,

1447
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: which is very rare, particularly with someone who came in

1448
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: with as much fanfare as he did. And he's going

1449
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: to be missed when he's gone, when he retires and

1450
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 1: walks away.

1451
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 2: The NBA television rights, everything is going to take a hit.

1452
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna see dips. Say what you want. He's the

1453
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 2: most loved to be hated and the most hated to

1454
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 2: be loved. But I'm telling you, at this moment, he

1455
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that just because he plays for Lakers.

1456
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 2: But I will tell you I'm the typical fan. I

1457
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 2: couldn't stand until he became a Laker. I think you

1458
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 2: guys do too hard on Lebron. I think everyone's too

1459
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 2: hard on Lebron. Like but just last week you hated it,

1460
01:17:57,800 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 2: and I said, that's not the point, that's not the point.

1461
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 2: But you are correct. He has taught. What he has

1462
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 2: taught every player is that they have leverage and that

1463
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,640
Speaker 2: they can if if in fact, they can produce on

1464
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 2: the court and they are a grand heill if you will.

1465
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 2: He has leverage. And he was fearless. He was fearless.

1466
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: He moved fearlessly. He has moved fearlessly in this league

1467
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: and take and taking all the hits. And while I

1468
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 2: think time will tell his story in the way in

1469
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 2: which you all you and I see him, I often

1470
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 2: wonder how much has that affected his psyche, because I'm

1471
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 2: sure it has his family as well. He acts like

1472
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:35,560
Speaker 2: it's not a big deal, but you got you got it.

1473
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 2: But like you said, he can hear it, he can

1474
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,840
Speaker 2: see it, he could read it. Now they're going after

1475
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 2: your kids. They're not just going after you, They're going

1476
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 2: after your wife. They're going after your kids. I'm like,

1477
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 2: hands off. Like to me, there's just you draw a

1478
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 2: line some places. You don't talk about people's families, you

1479
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 2: know what I mean?

1480
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: No, I agree, But I think what happens is is

1481
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: that you know, and I don't know if this applies

1482
01:18:57,600 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: to Lebron, but I think I think a lot of

1483
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: guys they hear the noise, they see the noise, and

1484
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: they put everybody in the same bucket, and you know,

1485
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 1: and so and you become cynical and and you know,

1486
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 1: like there's credible journalists out there who I think have integrity,

1487
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 1: uh and I think want to get to a deeper

1488
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 1: meeting and really want to be objective. But I think

1489
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: there's a lack of trust with some of the athletes today,

1490
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:28,560
Speaker 1: with some members of the media. And I think some

1491
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 1: of it stems from just the noise and and all that,

1492
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: and so you you become defensive, you're not as well,

1493
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: like there was a relationship. Like I'll give you an example,

1494
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: so I cover I do games for T and T

1495
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: and back in the day when you know when when

1496
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 1: when they would come and broadcast a game, you'd sit

1497
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: down for an interview and they would play that interview

1498
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: clip during the game. That doesn't happen anymore. And and

1499
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 1: it's almost like one in part because whatever it needs

1500
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 1: to be said, they can just say it, you know,

1501
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: on their own platforms. They don't need to talk with

1502
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: But it's just a it's an interesting dynamic. And I

1503
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: think there's just a lot of noise and a lot

1504
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: of criticism.

1505
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 2: Uh.

1506
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's sensationalized a bit, and I

1507
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: think it plays on the mental psyche of athletes and

1508
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: no question, and that's something I'm not a fan of.

1509
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,600
Speaker 2: Mmm, I'm with you. I'm in agreement. I I you know,

1510
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 2: I'm also guilty, but I'm in agreement. I'm also guilty

1511
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 2: of talking on the side of my neck every now

1512
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 2: and again. So I try. I try. I learned from

1513
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 2: my mistakes. I gotta be honest, Like because I've never

1514
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 2: played the game, so I can't I can't say certain

1515
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 2: things there are certain things I can't say. I said,

1516
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 2: I remember, and I don't know if you remember. When

1517
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,719
Speaker 2: I was on Sports Center, I said, I just wouldn't

1518
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 2: start my team with Kevin Durant. He doesn't have enough heart.

1519
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 2: And this is when he was with Oklahoma. And it

1520
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 2: was like it was think pieces and she crazy and

1521
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 2: that's why women shouldn't be on TV and send her

1522
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 2: back to the kitchen. I mean, I got roasted. There

1523
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 2: was at one point which my producer thought, which I'm

1524
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 2: glad that we decided not to. He was like, oh,

1525
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 2: I think maybe you should apologize, and the bosses were like, no,

1526
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:08,759
Speaker 2: we pay her to have an opinion. If that's her opinion,

1527
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 2: she's doing a top five list and she's not gonna

1528
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 2: a KDE that's just her choice. But it was really heavy.

1529
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 2: But it got even worse. That was the year that

1530
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 2: they were up three to one in the conference finals

1531
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: against Golden State, and you know what happened after that, right,

1532
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,560
Speaker 2: they lost, and then he went to Golden State and

1533
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: then there was all this conversation about, well, maybe she

1534
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:34,600
Speaker 2: wasn't wrong, right, But at the same time it was

1535
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 2: more of a personal attack as opposed to statistically or

1536
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 2: professionally or on the court. Why I wouldn't choose him.

1537
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:41,640
Speaker 1: Right.

1538
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 2: That taught me that if I do have a criticism,

1539
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 2: I have to keep it on the court. It ain't

1540
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 2: about this you not this goon, if you will talk

1541
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 2: about what it looks like. So so, having said that,

1542
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 2: you're right, I don't blame them for being the new media.

1543
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 2: The new media, now, grant ain't you and me? Well

1544
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 2: kind of because I because I say what I want

1545
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 2: on my podcast. But the new media is the I

1546
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 2: Am Athlete podcast and the pivots of the world and

1547
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 2: the uninterrupteds of the world. These are they're like, okay,

1548
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,280
Speaker 2: we're gonna flip, you know, and they and they're missing

1549
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 2: some very tangible parts. Very few athletes. You're one of

1550
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 2: the few, I think, and I'm going to tell you

1551
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 2: this that could play the game and then be an

1552
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 2: impartial journalist. That's a hard thing to learn, Like, it

1553
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 2: really is a difficult spot to put you in as

1554
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 2: a player, as a former player, to talk about other players,

1555
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,560
Speaker 2: good or bad. Right, it's just a tough spot. And

1556
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 2: now we're watching these guys take ownership, as you said back,

1557
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 2: and it is the game is changing, and I and

1558
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 2: for the better in my opinion.

1559
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 1: Well, so, well, first of all, thought to your point

1560
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: where you said, and I appreciate you, you being forthcoming

1561
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 1: and sharing your experience and what you said about Duran

1562
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: And you know, look, there would hit jobs back in

1563
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: the day. I mean Peter VESSI, you know, yes, he

1564
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:01,679
Speaker 1: went everybody and it was per I think the difference

1565
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: is is technology now, and particularly social media, So if

1566
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: you say something on air, it's going to be amplified

1567
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 1: and it's going to be all over the place, and

1568
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 1: then people are going to chime in and in either

1569
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 1: side with you and just give it more oxygen. And

1570
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 1: so to me, you know, I look at you know,

1571
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 1: Charles and those guys, I mean Charles and those guys

1572
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 1: for twenty plus years have been you know, taking shots

1573
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: at people and being funny and humorous and so on

1574
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: and so forth. But then with like the Javelle McGee situation,

1575
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, that became something because it was bad and

1576
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 1: it was unfortunate, but I think part of it was

1577
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: there's more oxygen around it. And so now you hear it,

1578
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 1: you see it, you read it, you see the tweets,

1579
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: and so that's what's changed the game. I think in

1580
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,640
Speaker 1: some respects, it's just all the noise you know that

1581
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 1: surrounds and all the opinions that you know that at

1582
01:23:58,320 --> 01:23:59,680
Speaker 1: times are hard to run from.

1583
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 2: Grant Hill. You've given me more than enough time. I'm

1584
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,600
Speaker 2: going to ask your mail for your information because I

1585
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 2: do want to check on you family wise, make sure

1586
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 2: everything is all good. But I thank you for joining us.

1587
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: Everybody listening, go and get this book. If you want

1588
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 2: this deep intellectual thought from this this authentic human being,

1589
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 2: it's game. You can get it anywhere, right, I can

1590
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 2: go on Amazon, I can do it on my You

1591
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 2: did an audiobook, No, right, I love audiobook because you know,

1592
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: we just in a car and we got to drive

1593
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:32,560
Speaker 2: and do our thing real quick. I like it and

1594
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 2: anything else you're working on you want to let people

1595
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:34,920
Speaker 2: know about.

1596
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean no, not right now. I'm it's

1597
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. Like you said, it's an audio version.

1598
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, stay tuned. There may be an opportunity to

1599
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: come back on Naked again here in the near future.

1600
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell good something juicy. Okay, all right, all right,

1601
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: give all the love to the family. Your mom included,

1602
01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 2: your wife, your dad. They did a good job. They

1603
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 2: did a good job, you, kiddo. I'm proud of you.

1604
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: Appreciate I'm.

1605
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 2: I'm so glad I had. This is honestly the first

1606
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 2: time on my podcast that I had the opportunity to

1607
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 2: sit and talk with Grant and I, and I thought

1608
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 2: it was special. He is just a great guy, and

1609
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 2: I keep saying that because it's so rare and the

1610
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 2: story of how he met his wife. I would like

1611
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 2: to Nita Baker to hook me up if you listen

1612
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 2: to any sweet love, don't you and the girl? Oh wait,

1613
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 2: It'll always be this way a ah, Okay, I'm not

1614
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 2: a singer, but you get it. And then the fact

1615
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 2: that I watch him be the father, the husband, the

1616
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 2: friend that he is said to be to everyone really

1617
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,680
Speaker 2: made this podcast special for me. So Grant, I thank

1618
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 2: you for coming on. I also thank you guys for

1619
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 2: letting me talk about Deshaun Watson. There's so much more

1620
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:57,759
Speaker 2: to that story and I'm still unpacking how I feel

1621
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 2: and processing my thoughts because there are a lot of

1622
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 2: lives affected and so much trauma. We cover this stuff

1623
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 2: like it doesn't matter, but there are real individuals involved

1624
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 2: in this case that are suffering. And I'm not even

1625
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: talking about just the women. What about Deshaun's family members,

1626
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 2: his mother, his father, his family, his friends, those who

1627
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:17,560
Speaker 2: care about him, who see him as one way and

1628
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 2: feel as if he's being attacked and treated poorly. Coming

1629
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 2: to the realization that the person you know and have

1630
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 2: known for so long isn't who you think they are

1631
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 2: is really traumatic. If in fact, that has happened for

1632
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 2: his family and friends, life is not easy. That's why

1633
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,720
Speaker 2: it's important for us to be good to each other.

1634
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 2: I am imploring every single day kindness and trying to

1635
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 2: be more and more kind. The reputation that I have

1636
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily kind. It's straight up into the point. Although

1637
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with being straight up into the point.

1638
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that is the word I'm trying

1639
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 2: to get out. But kindness prevails, just like talent. Trump's all,

1640
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 2: thank y'all for listening, and naked I'll see y'all next week.