Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing when frugality doesn't cut it.
Speaker 1: Schedule this episode, we're talking about frugality, you know, frugality.
Speaker 1: That's that's a word that we use often. We we
Speaker 1: we use it when we talk about being frugal or cheap,
Speaker 1: but frugality, it's a mainstay of personal finances. It's something
Speaker 1: that we come back to often. But like we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about this episode, is not always something that we
Speaker 1: can count on to make some big changes in our life. Yes,
Speaker 1: sometimes there are other levers that we need to pull
Speaker 1: right in fru gality, we just can't cut back anymore.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of what this episode is about.
Speaker 1: If you find yourself having gone into uh personal finance,
Speaker 1: diving deep and you're realize, you know what, I've made
Speaker 1: a lot of frugal moves, but I gotta do more
Speaker 1: in order to get my finances kind of where I
Speaker 1: want them to be. Well, that's what this episode is
Speaker 1: going to get into exactly. Matt. Before we get into that,
Speaker 1: let's do a frugal or cheap And this is a
Speaker 1: frugal or cheap or just playing funny or ridiculous. So
Speaker 1: I saw this article. There's this guy follow on Twitter
Speaker 1: and he called this article flushing money down the toilet,
Speaker 1: And it's literally a little heads up of what this
Speaker 1: article is actually gonna be about. So he literally goes
Speaker 1: through all of the things that cost money, about going
Speaker 1: to the bathroom at home, and why you should take
Speaker 1: your number two's at work instead of doing it at
Speaker 1: the house. Yeah, specifically number two is. It's it's not
Speaker 1: about the number one is because with number two's there's
Speaker 1: all these other expenses. You've gotta account for the candle,
Speaker 1: toilet paper, you know, maybe an extra flush, because you
Speaker 1: can't use the economy flush, right, like you go with
Speaker 1: the full flesh, not the half flesh. Just potentially that
Speaker 1: plumber call once a year that you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: make in case, you know, it gets a little unwieldly. Well,
Speaker 1: what I love about that article, and we'll post this
Speaker 1: up in our show notes, but I love that he
Speaker 1: dove so deep and so hardcore into the numbers. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's even a calculator so you can assess your own
Speaker 1: personal situation, your own usage. Yeah, So since we're talking
Speaker 1: about frue gality, I just thought that was funny because
Speaker 1: a super frugal person would probably potentially think about something
Speaker 1: like that. And I'm not gonna say it's something I've
Speaker 1: never thought about before. I just never have dug into
Speaker 1: this amount of detail. Yeah, if it's something that you
Speaker 1: can kind of keep in the back of your mind
Speaker 1: and that can slightly modify your behavior, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: well then it's just a little more natural. But it
Speaker 1: feels cheap if you're going way out of your way
Speaker 1: in order to make number two happen while you're at work. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll say, for me working from home, this isn't something
Speaker 1: I personally can can do, right, Like, my office is
Speaker 1: my home, So for us, that's an expense we realize ourselves,
Speaker 1: except home office deduction. Oh that's good point. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a percentage because I use a room in our house,
Speaker 1: so you get to write off some of your utilities.
Speaker 1: It's a well a percentage of the size of your
Speaker 1: home and then utilities as well, so boom, I can
Speaker 1: go whenever I want. I think one of my favorite
Speaker 1: parts about the post, besides the calculator, is that he
Speaker 1: calls it. You know, we talked about opportunity costs. When
Speaker 1: we talk about money, he calls it the poopportunity cost. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was clever. If anybody wants to mess around with
Speaker 1: that calculator and your poop jokes to Joel, yeah, feel
Speaker 1: free to tweet your best poop jokes at us. I
Speaker 1: didn't totally understand the part that he's talking about the
Speaker 1: opportunity cost. Is he saying that while you're at work
Speaker 1: you're missing out on you know, what he's saying is
Speaker 1: if you poop at home as opposed to pooping at work,
Speaker 1: there's this opportunity cost of your money because while you're
Speaker 1: at home, you're spending your own money, your own time,
Speaker 1: on the water bill, on the candle, on the running
Speaker 1: of the fan with the electricity, all that kind of
Speaker 1: st So obviously it's just a little bit. It's a
Speaker 1: little poofy, but you know, especially since we're talking about
Speaker 1: frugality and maybe win frugality doesn't cut it well, this
Speaker 1: kind of went a little too far, but super funny
Speaker 1: and and definitely worth talking about on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll share that with y'all as well. All Right, man,
Speaker 1: let's quickly mention the beer that we're having on the
Speaker 1: show today. This beer, Man, I've been drinking this for
Speaker 1: over ten years. This is Hibernation Ale is old school, Yeah,
Speaker 1: by Great Divide Brewing. Well, you said you've been drinking
Speaker 1: it for ten years. I don't think i've had it
Speaker 1: in eight years. It's been four ever since I've had
Speaker 1: this beer. This is one of those that I think
Speaker 1: you and I both kind of fell into years ago.
Speaker 1: But this is one that we've st you know, let's
Speaker 1: kind of set on the backshelf a little bit when
Speaker 1: you when you go to the when you go to
Speaker 1: the beer shop and you see it, any kind of
Speaker 1: a little tip of the cap to it, but you
Speaker 1: don't really pick it up. I'm glad that we are
Speaker 1: able to share this one today. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: an old aale and I love a good old alee.
Speaker 1: So we will talk about this one at the end
Speaker 1: of the show. But for now, Matt, let's get onto
Speaker 1: the topic at hand. We're talking about when frugality doesn't
Speaker 1: cut it, when it's not enough, and Matt, you and
Speaker 1: I both agree that frugality is a great tool in
Speaker 1: our personal finance. Swiss Army Knife. We're pretty approval fell
Speaker 1: as ourselves, and we love seeing the frugal steps that
Speaker 1: our friends and our listeners are implementing into their lives.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes they're doing things that we hadn't even thought of, right,
Speaker 1: And it's encouraging to see that. It's inspirational and it's
Speaker 1: educational for us. It's creative as well. Yes, I love
Speaker 1: that super creative stuff. I love just seeing how people
Speaker 1: are saving money and it just makes me want to
Speaker 1: go harder after saving more of my own and making
Speaker 1: frugal cuts. But frugality alone doesn't cut it. There are
Speaker 1: times when we need to prioritize other tools in our
Speaker 1: personal finance Swiss army knife to help us achieve our
Speaker 1: money goals. So today we're going to discuss the role
Speaker 1: that frugality should play in our financial lives and how
Speaker 1: to use the other tools at your disposal when just
Speaker 1: adding more frugal hacks to our life won't do the trick.
Speaker 1: That's right, man, So let's go ahead first and define frugality.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of different definitions of what people
Speaker 1: consider to be frugal, right, I mean, you and I
Speaker 1: we go back and forth often on the show, and
Speaker 1: we say, is this frugal or is this cheap? Like
Speaker 1: even our own definition of frugality and cheapness can vary
Speaker 1: depending on the specific situation, but for this episode, here's
Speaker 1: how we're gonna define frugality. Frugality is the small changes
Speaker 1: that you can make by cutting around the periphery of
Speaker 1: your budget. Right. So some of these changes can be
Speaker 1: bigger than others. It could be as big as maybe
Speaker 1: cutting cable. What can be as small as making your
Speaker 1: own soap, or maybe even flushing one less time because
Speaker 1: you are going number two at work, right, But frugality
Speaker 1: is essentially looking at those line items and seeing how
Speaker 1: you can save a few more dollars every single month.
Speaker 1: You're kind of you know, you're you're tightening the belt
Speaker 1: just a little bit more, trying to squeeze a few
Speaker 1: more cents out of that line atom. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: are of course all about this. You shouldn't skip out
Speaker 1: on frugality as you're on your journey to achieving your
Speaker 1: financial goals. You have to use it well. But there's
Speaker 1: some obvious limitations to frugality because it can only take
Speaker 1: you so far. Some folks have a greater need to
Speaker 1: practice extreme frugality, right, But lots of people listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast likely don't fall into this category. If you
Speaker 1: have a smartphone, you listen to podcasts, and in particular,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to a personal finance podcast, the likelihood
Speaker 1: that you have the ability to make other impactful changes
Speaker 1: is pretty high. But before we get into those changes,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little more about frugality and how we
Speaker 1: should view it. Yeah, dude, So, I think the first
Speaker 1: thing when to cover is how pretty much everything in
Speaker 1: our budget should be initially on the table when it
Speaker 1: comes to making some of those cuts. Right, we should
Speaker 1: reconsider most of the expenses in our lives and not
Speaker 1: assume that anything is untouchable. This is reminding me of
Speaker 1: our interview with Liz, miss frugal Wood's. We talked with
Speaker 1: her about how she and her husband they cut their
Speaker 1: own hair at home, and by the way, that's something
Speaker 1: I do as well. Yeah. Have we ever talked about that?
Speaker 1: I don't. I think you've mentioned it before. Have you
Speaker 1: talked about how I've cut your hair before? I think
Speaker 1: we might have posted a picture on Instagram one when
Speaker 1: you cut my hair, did you like? Dude? I don't
Speaker 1: have time to get a haircut. I don't want to
Speaker 1: pay the money as well. Our families were at the beach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's small aside. Anyway, I will say we're pretty frugal.
Speaker 1: Not the best hair could I've ever had, also not
Speaker 1: the worst, so I'm fine with them where in the middle.
Speaker 1: So you know, we talked with her about how they
Speaker 1: cut their own hair. She also has this large, massive
Speaker 1: CEO two tank where she can make her own carbonated
Speaker 1: water and instead of buying lacroix or instead of even
Speaker 1: using her soda stream with a little CEO two cartridges
Speaker 1: I guess, which are a lot more expensive. There are
Speaker 1: all sorts of ways that we can creatively cut back,
Speaker 1: and sometimes when we think that we are frugal, we
Speaker 1: actually aren't. Right, So we just haven't done enough research
Speaker 1: to see what other options might help us to save
Speaker 1: even more money. Our culture isn't a one that lends
Speaker 1: itself to frugality. That's an understatement. Yes, Like there are
Speaker 1: probably a lot of different frugal hacks that you haven't
Speaker 1: considered yet. We've talked about free stuff, we talked about
Speaker 1: cutting the cord. Even cheap cell phone providers more frugal
Speaker 1: knowledge and implementation can have a real impact for the
Speaker 1: majority of us. Yeah, so I think it's important to say,
Speaker 1: just one more time, we're not talking trash about frugality.
Speaker 1: We love yeah, exactly, there's so many good things that
Speaker 1: frugality adds to our lives, and even just honestly, the
Speaker 1: money savings is big, but just kind of that ability
Speaker 1: to realize that we can do with less is a
Speaker 1: huge part of why we love frugality. Oh and also too,
Speaker 1: and it can only not save you money, but I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of joy that can come from
Speaker 1: being frugal as well. Like we've talked before about obviously
Speaker 1: using public libraries, right it's another mainstay right there next
Speaker 1: to frugality. But recently, man, we've been using the Libby
Speaker 1: appohole because I've sinked it with my kindle and so,
Speaker 1: which is amazing because now I'm able to pull up
Speaker 1: books from the library on my phone in the Libby
Speaker 1: app and then instantly send them to my kindle. Dude,
Speaker 1: this has been huge for us. I've been reading The
Speaker 1: Magic Treehouse to my girls. They love it. It's a
Speaker 1: ton of fun and if they're really into it, I
Speaker 1: can literally pull up the next book and have that
Speaker 1: into my kindle instantly. So I'm just saying that it's
Speaker 1: just a ton of fun. We've gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: value out of that. Ensure. We could purchase the e
Speaker 1: version of it on Amazon, right but they're about four
Speaker 1: dollars a pop and we've already burned through six of
Speaker 1: those books. So that's twenty five bucks right there that
Speaker 1: I've saved, just a small frugal win. Yeah, And I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the more that we are have our eyes open,
Speaker 1: and so much of that does involve kind of bringing
Speaker 1: in other voices that have a lot of wisdom on
Speaker 1: how to become more frugal, how to save money, what
Speaker 1: areas you can cut back, what apps you can use,
Speaker 1: wright stuff like that. There's all sorts of frugal tips
Speaker 1: and tricks out there that you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: that we aren't privy to, and we rely on our
Speaker 1: listeners and our friends to kind of hear more about
Speaker 1: those things. But yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, frugality,
Speaker 1: it can be kind of uh fun, it can be
Speaker 1: a joy. We can almost also kind of gamify our
Speaker 1: ability to to institute frugality into our lives are but
Speaker 1: I think it's also important to be warned. Extreme frugality
Speaker 1: can have negative consequences in relationship to our money and
Speaker 1: to others, and it can also have negative consequences just
Speaker 1: for ourselves because it might not be fun to cut
Speaker 1: back on some of those expenses that we truly enjoy
Speaker 1: in life, right, Matt, Like, if we try to over
Speaker 1: frugalize our use of craft beer, Uh, it would probably
Speaker 1: be pretty miserable. That's why we kind of set out
Speaker 1: a few things in our personal lives that we're willing
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, We're not gonna let frugality
Speaker 1: really touch those areas of our lives because those are
Speaker 1: places where we've decided it's important to put our money
Speaker 1: it aligns with our values. And so, like, let's give
Speaker 1: an example here. I think avoiding expensive coffee typically is
Speaker 1: a pretty smart move, right. If you go out every
Speaker 1: single morning to to get a four or five dollar coffee,
Speaker 1: that can add up and and it really does equate
Speaker 1: to a major expense in your life. But not spending
Speaker 1: that four dollars just wants to have a great two
Speaker 1: hour conversation with a friend, Well, I think ultimately that's
Speaker 1: kind of being more cheap, and that's letting extreme frugality
Speaker 1: infringe on having a great conversation with a friend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a classic example of imposing your cheapness on somebody else, right,
Speaker 1: because it's affecting that relationship. So it can definitely have
Speaker 1: a negative impact on that relationship. By the way, Okay,
Speaker 1: what if you were going to a coffee shop to
Speaker 1: meet a friend and they were already there and they
Speaker 1: didn't have coffee, and they're sitting there, what would you do?
Speaker 1: I'd buy their coffee? Would you buy their coffee? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What if they don't want coffee? What do they want? Well,
Speaker 1: what I'm what I'm saying, What I'm getting to is
Speaker 1: that you're using the space of the coffee shop and
Speaker 1: it looks like they're not going to get coffee. Would
Speaker 1: you get coffee for yourself? Yeah? I mean I think
Speaker 1: it's it's probably really cheap to take up a table
Speaker 1: coffee shop and not have purchased anything. But that's what
Speaker 1: I'm getting too. That's not cool. Yeah. So I mean
Speaker 1: if if I got there that you know, my friend
Speaker 1: was already there and they had a cup, I feel
Speaker 1: like that kind of puts me off the hook a
Speaker 1: little bit. I'm like, Okay, I can get a cup
Speaker 1: of coffee to kind of join them. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things to consider here. It also gives
Speaker 1: me the freedom maybe to not go ahead and get
Speaker 1: that fancy latte that I'm going to be tempted to get, right,
Speaker 1: carmelatte or a quartado. That's my favorites are so good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, I think really more than anything when it
Speaker 1: comes to the negative consequences that frugality can can bring.
Speaker 1: It's not to say that frugality has to have these
Speaker 1: bad ramifications. It doesn't have to affect your relationships negatively,
Speaker 1: but I think it's just important to mention that it
Speaker 1: can write. You know, if we're not careful, and if
Speaker 1: we let frugality kind of take the driver's seat in
Speaker 1: our life as opposed to kind of be in that
Speaker 1: passenger person holding the map helping us out. You know,
Speaker 1: if we let it take over the driver's seat, it
Speaker 1: really can run them up, and it can hurt hurt
Speaker 1: our relationships and the people closest to us. Completely agree. Man.
Speaker 1: Something else to keep in mind is that if you
Speaker 1: are an extreme frugal light, there is also a diminishing
Speaker 1: value to continuing to make hard attempts at frugality. This is,
Speaker 1: you know, when maybe the effect is in full force.
Speaker 1: Your initial frugal cuts can be quite helpful, allowing for
Speaker 1: some major financial breathing room, But then those secondary frugal
Speaker 1: moves will offer far less benefits. I'm thinking of For instance,
Speaker 1: you might be spending over like a hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: bucks a month on cable, and over the years you've
Speaker 1: also picked up a number of those different streaming services, right,
Speaker 1: and so you're just paying way out the nose for
Speaker 1: all the TV that you don't actually watch, when in reality,
Speaker 1: you can make some pretty big cuts. And you know what,
Speaker 1: Hulu last Black Friday, they did that two dollar a
Speaker 1: month deal again. And if you happen to snag that deal,
Speaker 1: you might say, you know what, I can get about
Speaker 1: eight of all of my TV watching done through Hulu
Speaker 1: for two bucks a month. That's the savings of one
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars if you're paying one sixty before. And
Speaker 1: that first cut is huge, massive, But guess what, you
Speaker 1: probably don't need to be agonizing like should I cut
Speaker 1: that two dollar a month Hulu? Don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: Like who cares? It's only two dollars, But those bigger
Speaker 1: cuts certainly can be worthwhile. But just make sure you're
Speaker 1: not getting bogged down in the details and the minutia
Speaker 1: and just all the nitty gritty of trying to reduce
Speaker 1: your expenses even further when there's a little chance of
Speaker 1: that maybe actually even happening. Yeah, the first frugal cut
Speaker 1: can yield major results. And then those smaller frul cuts
Speaker 1: that we try to make sometimes maybe we're putting too
Speaker 1: much time, too much effort, and we're we're thinking too
Speaker 1: hard about that when there are other things that we
Speaker 1: can be focused on that can help us make bigger
Speaker 1: moves with our money, bigger moves with our personal finances
Speaker 1: as opposed to that two or three dollar cut, Right,
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about those things, Matt. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about those bigger moves that we can make win. Frugality
Speaker 1: isn't enough, And we'll get into that right after the break,
Speaker 1: all right. So we're back from the break, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk now about some of those bigger expenses, some
Speaker 1: of those bigger things in our life that we can
Speaker 1: focus on in order to make some big changes when
Speaker 1: it comes to our finances. Yeah, the way we initially
Speaker 1: defined frugality, we said it's cutting around the periphery of
Speaker 1: our budget. It's those smaller trims that we can make,
Speaker 1: and when frugality doesn't cut it, we have to make
Speaker 1: major t So we have to take an ax to
Speaker 1: those big things, right. Yeah, not around the periphety, We're
Speaker 1: going straight to the heart of it. Yeah, it's okay,
Speaker 1: a quick example for you that before we kind of
Speaker 1: launch into those let's talk about eating maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit healthier. In the same way that frugality won't cut
Speaker 1: it when it comes to our finances, there are I
Speaker 1: think other areas in our life where the same principles
Speaker 1: at play. So, for example, I think about the food
Speaker 1: we eat and trying to stay maybe a little bit healthy. Right,
Speaker 1: So an attempt to do that, you might be making
Speaker 1: the switch from regular ice cream to the ice cream
Speaker 1: that has maybe no sugar added or even the low
Speaker 1: fat stuff right gross. Yeah, Yeah, we don't need to
Speaker 1: get on that. So while that might make a difference,
Speaker 1: if you really want to move the needle, what you
Speaker 1: should be doing is you shouldn't be looking at low
Speaker 1: fat ice cream. You should be looking at not eating
Speaker 1: ice cream altogether. You need to you need to avoid
Speaker 1: having that bowl of ice cream right before you go
Speaker 1: to bed like that's what's gonna make the big difference,
Speaker 1: or or or sparing lee every once in a while.
Speaker 1: You know, you have a bowl of ice cream, but
Speaker 1: but good stuff every now and then. But if you're
Speaker 1: eating the low fat every single night before bed, you're right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not a good move. Also, see how this food
Speaker 1: example parallel how we approach beer. Yeah true, but it's
Speaker 1: those paradigm shifting ways of looking at a problem completely
Speaker 1: differently that'll actually lead to massive change, not just those
Speaker 1: tiny little frugal tweaks. Yeah yeah, So that one of
Speaker 1: the major ways that we are able to move the
Speaker 1: needle wind frugality isn't quite enough is to look at
Speaker 1: the major expenses in our lives. When frugality just isn't
Speaker 1: gonna cut it, it's time to go big, right, So
Speaker 1: let's look at a few areas in our budget where
Speaker 1: we're talking about these major hacks as opposed to just
Speaker 1: cutting around the edges, just nibbling and taking off pennies
Speaker 1: and dollars. Well, of course, housing is probably the biggest
Speaker 1: line item in your budget, So let's talk about that
Speaker 1: real quick. Yeah, on average dude, Americans of their budget
Speaker 1: goes towards housing that is a massive amount. That's a
Speaker 1: big chunk. So instead of focusing on the smaller things
Speaker 1: like letting it mellow in between flushes or pooping at
Speaker 1: your place of work, it's important to look for ways
Speaker 1: to drastically make changes. And so, yeah, one of those
Speaker 1: things might be house hacking that's putting an extra room
Speaker 1: on Airbnb, or looking for acute duplex so you can
Speaker 1: have a full time tenant next door. You might want
Speaker 1: to consider downsizing alltogether. Maybe you realize that you don't
Speaker 1: need all the space that you have anymore or ever, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe you've never needed that space and you're just
Speaker 1: finally realizing that. Yeah, And so you realize you're living
Speaker 1: in three thousand square feet and you're like, you know what,
Speaker 1: square feet would do me just fine, and it would
Speaker 1: simplify my life a good bit and at the same time,
Speaker 1: it would save me a whole lot of money every month.
Speaker 1: You might even want to think about relocating. Ask yourself
Speaker 1: why it is that you live where you do. Going
Speaker 1: through that exercise can really help. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: there's all these ways that we can consider tackling the
Speaker 1: problem of how much housing costs us every month. And
Speaker 1: if you can lower your housing costs from your budget
Speaker 1: to twenty of your budget, if you can make a
Speaker 1: big move like that, well then we're not talking about
Speaker 1: getting rid of a ten dollar streaming service. We're talking
Speaker 1: about moving the needle in a major way pretty quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and here's the thing too, some of these changes can
Speaker 1: seem kind of scary, right, Like we're talking about changing
Speaker 1: your housing, and to a lot of people, their home
Speaker 1: is like represents security and it's this sort of safe place. Right.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Like, thinking through these things is
Speaker 1: an incredible exercise, like you said, to help us to
Speaker 1: focus on what it is we actually prioritize. Because yeah,
Speaker 1: you hear us say, oh you should consider moving, and
Speaker 1: that sounds ridiculous to some people, probably to a lot
Speaker 1: of people. But if you actually take the time and
Speaker 1: think about what is it that we value, that is
Speaker 1: when your priorities can begin to realign, and then you
Speaker 1: can start placing priority on the things that actually matter
Speaker 1: to you. Right. So, for instance, maybe you moved to
Speaker 1: a city because you originally got a job there five
Speaker 1: or six years ago, but now you work completely online
Speaker 1: and you can move anywhere well, that's a good time
Speaker 1: to reconsider, like, why is it that we're actually staying here.
Speaker 1: Is it because we're just used to the neighborhood, or
Speaker 1: are there other bigger reasons that are keeping us here.
Speaker 1: I think when you can actually think through some of
Speaker 1: these things, that's when these kind of big audacious moves
Speaker 1: like this, like moving out of the city to somewhere
Speaker 1: that's maybe more affordable, that's when something like that seems
Speaker 1: not only doable, but something that you're excited about because
Speaker 1: you've identified an incredible way to save a ton of money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Matt, it is important to note when we're
Speaker 1: talking about this that when you move sometimes there are
Speaker 1: other expenses that you incur. In For instance, where we
Speaker 1: live it's pretty bikable. I can bike to work, you know,
Speaker 1: you can bike to pick up kids from school and
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Right, instead of having another car,
Speaker 1: instead of driving more where we live, it enables us
Speaker 1: to save money in other places. So, yeah, certainly some
Speaker 1: secondary benefits there. Yeah, So I think if you're talking
Speaker 1: about moving somewhere else, you want to incorporate all the
Speaker 1: potential increased costs and decreased costs that you might face.
Speaker 1: And on that note of cars and transportation, what transportation
Speaker 1: is this other potential place for us to make a
Speaker 1: huge dent in our monthly spending. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's not agonizing between a car that might get thirty
Speaker 1: five miles to the gallon versus forty miles to the
Speaker 1: gallon that ultimately is a very small item in our budget.
Speaker 1: The gas costs that will incur typically don't make a
Speaker 1: huge different in our lives if we just increase our
Speaker 1: fuel economy a little bit. But the bigger thing is
Speaker 1: considering what the purpose of our car is. If it's
Speaker 1: just functional and dependable transportation and it's not for status,
Speaker 1: well then we're going to be able to make a
Speaker 1: better choice. We're gonna be able to save a lot
Speaker 1: of money doing so. This means not having a car
Speaker 1: payment and definitely avoiding leasing a car. By the way,
Speaker 1: if you do have a lease, it's important. There are
Speaker 1: two great websites you should check out, Swap a lease
Speaker 1: or lease Trader. You can get rid of your lease
Speaker 1: and you can find somebody else who's looking to take
Speaker 1: on a lease, and then you can discount you at
Speaker 1: a discount, and then you can get this cheaper method
Speaker 1: of transportation that's going to save you potentially hundreds of
Speaker 1: dollars every month and all that note, also avoid the
Speaker 1: car subscription services as well, because that's an even higher
Speaker 1: premium that you're paying for absolutely zero work. But guess
Speaker 1: what you're paying out the nose for that jump. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Those Maybe maybe one of these days those things will
Speaker 1: come down in price and we'll be able to have
Speaker 1: car subscription services that just aren't insanely expensive for the
Speaker 1: common man. But it seems like a lot of them
Speaker 1: are eight hundred thousand buck right now, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: I would probably avoid those two. And Matt, I think
Speaker 1: another thing to mention is that for folks out there
Speaker 1: that have a car payment, consider selling your car, taking
Speaker 1: that hit, and then buying something to drive that's less expensive.
Speaker 1: And when we start talking about cutting things in this fashion,
Speaker 1: like selling a car to your upside down on taking
Speaker 1: the hit and then buying a car that's even cheaper,
Speaker 1: well we have to talk about the sunk cost fallacy,
Speaker 1: which I don't think we've ever talked about on the
Speaker 1: show before. Sometimes it makes sense to cut loose a
Speaker 1: recent new car purchase or recent purchase of any kind,
Speaker 1: even if we're going to quote unquote lose money on it.
Speaker 1: We keep expenses in our life oftentimes because of how
Speaker 1: much we've invested in those things, as opposed to weighing
Speaker 1: our decision based on how beneficial it will be for
Speaker 1: our future finances. So sometimes Matt, it just makes sense
Speaker 1: to cut our losses and do something more productive with
Speaker 1: that money. Well, this actually makes me think of Seinfeld.
Speaker 1: I know you're a big Seinfeld fan. I used to
Speaker 1: watch it back in the day. I've watched classic show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I watched very few episodes of that, but one that
Speaker 1: I am aware of it was the one where Elaine
Speaker 1: she had gotten the punch cards at the subplace and
Speaker 1: she had gotten enough punches on her card that she
Speaker 1: was going to be able to get a free sub.
Speaker 1: Did you know the one I'm talking about? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: she loses the card, right, she loses the card and
Speaker 1: so she's spends the entire episode basically trying to find
Speaker 1: her her card, and people that are always like forget
Speaker 1: about it, like let it go, and the whole time
Speaker 1: She's like, the subs are terrible, but but I'm halfway there.
Speaker 1: I have to keep beating them so I can get
Speaker 1: the free one exactly. Well, she's more than halfway there,
Speaker 1: she is right there at the brink, and so she's
Speaker 1: she's committed to finding that card and it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: that the subs are crappy. She's emotionally invested. And so
Speaker 1: that's the fallacy part of the sunk cost problem here
Speaker 1: is that we become emotionally attached to what we've committed
Speaker 1: our time and what we've committed our money to that
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if the benefit we receive afterwards isn't
Speaker 1: that great, we're so committed to it. Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: think that's a good way to think about purchases that
Speaker 1: we've already made that maybe we can cut ties with.
Speaker 1: It's like, would you make that purchase now, regardless regardless
Speaker 1: of how much money, regardless of how much time you've
Speaker 1: already sunk into it. Yeah. And when you're talking about
Speaker 1: the car specifically, Matt, if you spent twenty thousand on
Speaker 1: a car and it's worth, you know, twelve thousand dollars, now, well,
Speaker 1: would you buy a car that's worth twelve dollars for
Speaker 1: twenty grand? No, you probably wouldn't. And so if you
Speaker 1: have the cash on hand and you're able to to
Speaker 1: get out from out of that car and buy a
Speaker 1: cheap used car that can revolutionize your finances going forward.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I just think it makes sense to
Speaker 1: put that on the table, those bigger cuts, even if
Speaker 1: it involves maybe a more difficult emotional move like selling
Speaker 1: a car that you've got so much money invested in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally man. And another thing too is consider maybe moving
Speaker 1: to a one car family. Right if you've got a family,
Speaker 1: if you have a household and you've got two cars,
Speaker 1: but maybe you're really not using that second car all
Speaker 1: that often, Well, like it's worth considering selling that car,
Speaker 1: getting rid of the insurance on that second vehicle. And
Speaker 1: you know what, if you are a single individual and
Speaker 1: you only have one car, if you live in the
Speaker 1: city and you've got good options, good alternative transportation options,
Speaker 1: I think it's worth challenging yourself and thinking through, like
Speaker 1: what would it look like for me to not have
Speaker 1: a car. We talked about this often, but I mean
Speaker 1: with the technologies with ride sharing, bike scooters, all the
Speaker 1: things out there, there are incredible ways to be able
Speaker 1: to move around a city in an urban environment where
Speaker 1: you wouldn't necessarily have to have the vehicle. And one
Speaker 1: thing I think that gets overlooked the ways car pool
Speaker 1: feature is really neat. It's very similar to ride share.
Speaker 1: Have you tried it yet? I haven't tried it yet.
Speaker 1: I need to try it, but I've been I've been
Speaker 1: really really interested to check it out because the prices
Speaker 1: are so much cheaper than if you were just to
Speaker 1: take a lift or an uber even like the uber
Speaker 1: pool right. The it's it's it's basically cost like fifty
Speaker 1: cents a mile, and you're sharing this ride with someone
Speaker 1: else who lives in your part of town and works
Speaker 1: kind of close to where you work. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a really sweet option for for folks that are
Speaker 1: trying to eliminate car expenses in their lives. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I do see that on as an option with Lift
Speaker 1: and Uber right, like you see the shared option, And
Speaker 1: it's not that much cheaper, Like a lot of times
Speaker 1: it's just a few bucks, I mean, depending on the
Speaker 1: length of your trip, but it's a few bucks more
Speaker 1: and it sometimes will take a lot longer, and so
Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, I'm not gonna try to say
Speaker 1: three or four bucks and have it take twenty minutes
Speaker 1: longer to get to my destination. To me personally, that's
Speaker 1: not worth it, yeah for sure. But yeah, man wags carpool,
Speaker 1: you gotta check that out and report back soon. All right.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that on my February to do list.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and waste carpool. Yeah, all right, I'll
Speaker 1: report that. Gonna love it. All right. Let's also talk quickly,
Speaker 1: uh some about food. Not everyone can make a dramatic
Speaker 1: cut here, cheaper cuts of meat or maybe eating less
Speaker 1: meat overall, our our frugal moves that can help. And
Speaker 1: you know, eating out less obviously can can have a
Speaker 1: big impact on the amount of money that we put
Speaker 1: towards our food. But there are some folks out there
Speaker 1: who could save a lot of money by shopping at
Speaker 1: maybe aldi say, instead of shopping at whole foods. That
Speaker 1: would make a big difference. Yeah, or even just packing
Speaker 1: their lunches, eating at home, eating leftovers. The percentage of
Speaker 1: our budgets that goes towards food and goes towards groceries
Speaker 1: is about and you know, what we're talking about here
Speaker 1: might sound a little measily. We're talking about these big
Speaker 1: cuts that we can make in our lives, right but
Speaker 1: here's the thing. We eat every single day, and so
Speaker 1: when you make a small change that happens three times
Speaker 1: a day, well that adds up because we eat every
Speaker 1: single day, and the small changes they compound, so you
Speaker 1: get to the end of the month and it can
Speaker 1: be a noticeable difference in your budget. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: when we're talking about food, Matt, well, if you took
Speaker 1: the the hyper frugal approach, you'd be cutting coupons, you'd
Speaker 1: be saving fifty cents on a particular item. But when
Speaker 1: you're making a massive change like you just suggested of
Speaker 1: a whole food shopper switching to shop at Aldi instead, well,
Speaker 1: right there, that's one move, that's the big change, and
Speaker 1: that's one move that saves you a ton of money
Speaker 1: every month, as opposed to clipping the coupons, taking a
Speaker 1: lot of time and trying to lower that cost of
Speaker 1: your food bill on the periphery. With these little nibbles,
Speaker 1: you're taking this big bite out of your food bill.
Speaker 1: It's just by making that switch to all the right.
Speaker 1: I like the usage of a big bite in this example, Jill, Well, thanks,
Speaker 1: I thought it fit quite appropriate. Yes, So basically, the
Speaker 1: super frugal person is pinching pennies and counting dollar bills.
Speaker 1: Like you said, there might be clipping coupons just to
Speaker 1: save fifty cents. Whereas the person that takes this approach,
Speaker 1: that takes the approach of looking to the larger things,
Speaker 1: the larger steps where we can have some big impact
Speaker 1: in our life, they're looking to save hundreds of dollars
Speaker 1: through these bigger moves. When fruality isn't enough, you have
Speaker 1: to look to those larger line items in your budget.
Speaker 1: You can't count on being able to optimize something just
Speaker 1: a little bit more. Yeah, I completely agree, Matt. Well,
Speaker 1: the other side of the coin, when frugality isn't enough, well,
Speaker 1: it's not just about acting those bigger line items and
Speaker 1: saving big money in those ways, but it's also we
Speaker 1: have to look at the income side of the equation.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that right after the break. Alright,
Speaker 1: So we're back from the break talking about how frugality,
Speaker 1: how it won't always cut it, and the reason it
Speaker 1: won't always cut it is because sometimes, like you said,
Speaker 1: we need to look to the other side of the equation,
Speaker 1: and that's to earn more money growing your income. That's
Speaker 1: gonna be another tool in your money arsenal to help
Speaker 1: you save more when frugality isn't enough. If we continue
Speaker 1: to make cuts to our spending, like, there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a point at which you can no longer make any cuts, right,
Speaker 1: Like there's a baseline to living. You can't get blood
Speaker 1: from a turn up, isn't that what people say? Or
Speaker 1: from from a rock, Like you can't make a rock bleed?
Speaker 1: That too? Is that the term turn what I'm saying rocks?
Speaker 1: I don't know if either of them going on with
Speaker 1: people trying to make things bleed kind of messed up.
Speaker 1: But once you get to that point, like, that's when
Speaker 1: you have to shift your attention to increasing your income.
Speaker 1: In the same way that we can't make a massive
Speaker 1: impact on our money with these small cuts to our expenses,
Speaker 1: we also can't make dramatic improvements to our income via
Speaker 1: the smaller and easier ways to quickly increase our income.
Speaker 1: But you know what, that's okay. I think sometimes people
Speaker 1: need quicker and easier ways to be able to make
Speaker 1: more money. And there's there's a time and a place
Speaker 1: for the part time job in our lives. Right If
Speaker 1: you don't know what your scalable business might be well,
Speaker 1: there are ways to generate income by selling stuff on
Speaker 1: Facebook marketplace or through apps, renting your car out on Touro,
Speaker 1: doing tasks on task grab it, or giving folks rides
Speaker 1: as a lift driver or uber driver. Right, and even
Speaker 1: something like shopping arbitrage where you can buy stuff on
Speaker 1: deep discount and you can flip it. Well, that can
Speaker 1: be great for quicker money needs. Yes, exactly, Joel. What
Speaker 1: I mean, what's at the core of this is the
Speaker 1: fact that it's a stop gap. These are temporary solutions.
Speaker 1: These aren't long term fixes. You know, on the surface,
Speaker 1: it might sound a little backwards for us to be
Speaker 1: saying you need to focus on the big stuff, but
Speaker 1: it's okay to use you know, lift if you want to,
Speaker 1: you know, give a few rides and make a buck
Speaker 1: here and there. But we understand that not everybody has
Speaker 1: the ability to instantly start making way more money at
Speaker 1: their day job, right, And sometimes those side hustles take
Speaker 1: time to build, and so for a decent period of
Speaker 1: time we might be making nothing or very little doing
Speaker 1: a side hustle. But what we're looking at is this
Speaker 1: long term projection, this in you know, three to four
Speaker 1: years that's when we're able to start actually making good money.
Speaker 1: We we've turned it from from side hustle into a
Speaker 1: small business that actually generates income. But but for that
Speaker 1: first year or two you might be making very little
Speaker 1: and pouring a lot into it exactly so in those
Speaker 1: instances you would need some of those quick fixes. And
Speaker 1: this is one way that it doesn't exactly parallel expenses
Speaker 1: because pretty much everyone listening to this podcast, they can
Speaker 1: make some cuts right now, literally today, and overnight they
Speaker 1: would be saving more at the end of the month.
Speaker 1: But it is pretty difficult for folks to instantly start
Speaker 1: making more money in a way that is sustainable and scalable.
Speaker 1: And so that's why we're saying that. Sure, like we
Speaker 1: don't want you to focus all of your attention on
Speaker 1: these near term measures, but they're definitely okay in order
Speaker 1: to get you to a certain point. I think the
Speaker 1: best way to sum it up, doing something part time
Speaker 1: short in the short term for some people probably makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, but for a lot of other people,
Speaker 1: focusing more in the long term makes more sense totally.
Speaker 1: So let's cover some of the large impact areas to
Speaker 1: focus our attention and creative energies. In particular for most
Speaker 1: people with regular nine to five jobs. Uh, let's say
Speaker 1: maybe your current job isn't paying enough. Well, the best
Speaker 1: way to make more money at that job is to
Speaker 1: find a new one. And that's just time and time again.
Speaker 1: When you look at the numbers, the biggest way to
Speaker 1: increase your income is to move to another company. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe you're even in an industry that doesn't utilize
Speaker 1: your skills, you know, to their fullest potential. Or like
Speaker 1: maybe you're even with a company where you see the
Speaker 1: limiting factors of your growth and you know you're not
Speaker 1: going to progress. It'sund update that resume and start networking.
Speaker 1: Or you've done three and reviews in a year and
Speaker 1: you know your kicking butt, but your boss continues to
Speaker 1: tow the company line and say that a two percent
Speaker 1: raise is the maximum that company is willing to offer.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, if you're in a big bureaucratic business, that's
Speaker 1: all they're allowed to do. And that's the time where
Speaker 1: it probably makes a good bit of sense to update
Speaker 1: your resume and to start tapping your network connections and
Speaker 1: seeing what else is out there where you could dramatically
Speaker 1: increase the amount of money you're making just by switching employers.
Speaker 1: But maybe you actually like your job right and you
Speaker 1: want to stay there, but you would just like to
Speaker 1: make more money. So this is when you could ask
Speaker 1: your employer what you could do to make more sounds
Speaker 1: like such a simple question, like what can I do
Speaker 1: to make more money here? Um? But then here's the
Speaker 1: thing is that you actually have to do the thing
Speaker 1: that they say. But in this case, you want to
Speaker 1: focus where you already have a job. But maybe you've
Speaker 1: had that conversation with your boss and you know you're
Speaker 1: not getting great feedback. So in this case you could
Speaker 1: be maybe a little more proactive and you can write
Speaker 1: a job description for a gap that you can see
Speaker 1: that you know you can feel. There are different ways
Speaker 1: where you can get a head at your current employer
Speaker 1: that don't necessarily involve switching companies. I'm also thinking back
Speaker 1: to episode one TIN where we interviewed re meet Joel.
Speaker 1: He had some amazing strategies when it came to negotiating
Speaker 1: with your current employer as far as you know what
Speaker 1: steps to take, how to go about it. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to that episode, we would recommend going back
Speaker 1: and listening to that. Yeah, and his suggestion isn't necessarily
Speaker 1: saying can I please make more money? He really walked
Speaker 1: people through how to present yourself, how to ask the question,
Speaker 1: how to follow through in order to ensure that you're
Speaker 1: not just getting that two percent raise that you're capped
Speaker 1: at every year, but that you're able to maybe move
Speaker 1: into a new position or you're able to find ways
Speaker 1: to get more compensation based specifically on what you're able
Speaker 1: to accomplish in your job. And so it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be leaving your job, even if you have some
Speaker 1: of those barriers that seem to have been imposed on
Speaker 1: you at this point. It could be just kind of
Speaker 1: taking another approach to management and being more creative in
Speaker 1: how you ask to be compensated. Yep. Yeah, he did
Speaker 1: a really good job just sharing how we can communicate
Speaker 1: our value to our employers way who I really like man,
Speaker 1: And so, you know, like a lot of what we're
Speaker 1: talking about here is a side hustle that sort of
Speaker 1: round this out with maybe sort of a definition, because
Speaker 1: there is a difference between a side hustle and part
Speaker 1: time work. We talked about this in our side Hustles episode.
Speaker 1: There are different definitions that folks are using. But we
Speaker 1: want the goal and what we want to work towards
Speaker 1: is a job or or work that we can scale
Speaker 1: into something larger where you can actually own your own business.
Speaker 1: So for example, like you don't want to walk dogs
Speaker 1: on the Rover app, instead you want to quit your
Speaker 1: own dog walking small business. There are ways that you
Speaker 1: can do something that you enjoy or something that you
Speaker 1: know that you're capable of doing, but you're doing it
Speaker 1: sort of in your own ecosystem and you're running the
Speaker 1: show versus being our participant being part of this larger system. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: And we just posted an article about kind of great
Speaker 1: freelance opportunities that are out there by our friend Taylor
Speaker 1: on our website. And so for folks that are looking
Speaker 1: to see, well, what skills are kind of are people
Speaker 1: looking for and how can I go out there kind
Speaker 1: of selling those skills? How can I go out there
Speaker 1: starting my side hustle. I think there are just some
Speaker 1: eight suggestions in there for specific jobs to pursue and
Speaker 1: then the avenues to actually get going. So yeah, people
Speaker 1: should definitely check that out on our website at how
Speaker 1: to money dot com. But yeah, a side hustle is
Speaker 1: different than part time work. You're trying to build something
Speaker 1: for the long term, and ultimately it can pay huge dividends.
Speaker 1: It can allow you the freedom to be able to
Speaker 1: work for yourself, which is really cool. And those artificially
Speaker 1: imposed limits that a current employer might be setting on
Speaker 1: the amount that you can make when you work for yourself,
Speaker 1: those don't exist. And that's what's cool. That's how you
Speaker 1: can move the needle in this major way by earning
Speaker 1: more if you have your own business. This guy's the
Speaker 1: limit as opposed to those tiny raises that you're probably
Speaker 1: typically looking at every year. So true, man, that's right,
Speaker 1: and you know, like we've used this term before, but
Speaker 1: let's talk about widening the gap. Right When you look
Speaker 1: at the big picture, it's important to not only focus
Speaker 1: on increasing just your income and to not only focus
Speaker 1: on just getting your spending down. We need to take
Speaker 1: a balanced approach by looking at the margin between earning
Speaker 1: and spending. We want to focus on both and look
Speaker 1: to increase that gap. That gap is so important and
Speaker 1: widening that gap by addressing the big impact areas that
Speaker 1: needs to be our top priority. We need to focus
Speaker 1: on the in both our expenses and the eight percent
Speaker 1: and our income. Those are the areas that we need
Speaker 1: to devote our attention and our creativity towards. And once
Speaker 1: we address those eight percent, then we can focus on
Speaker 1: and we can hone and optimize and tweak. But we
Speaker 1: don't need to do that until that eighty percent is addressed. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: there are too many of us that are clipping coupons,
Speaker 1: that are looking to cut in just these small ways
Speaker 1: around the periphery of our budget, and we haven't looked
Speaker 1: at these bigger areas yet. We've kind of left those
Speaker 1: on the table, and I think it's important to look
Speaker 1: at these bigger things first. We're not here to disparage frugality,
Speaker 1: right we we think you should find a frugal sweet
Speaker 1: spot instead. Basically, we're here to encourage you to consider
Speaker 1: being more frugal than you already are. But I'm sure
Speaker 1: that most of you out there have found the frugality
Speaker 1: only seems to get you so far. You need more help,
Speaker 1: another boost in your ability to save. So hopefully you
Speaker 1: can look at these larger expenses in your life and
Speaker 1: also kind of these ways to attempt to earn more
Speaker 1: so you can achieve your financial goals more quickly. If
Speaker 1: we're just looking at the small stuff, we're not doing
Speaker 1: a good enough job and we're not going to be
Speaker 1: able to to move our finances along as quickly in
Speaker 1: a positive directions as we probably want to. That's right, man,
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and take it back now, shift gears
Speaker 1: and get back to our beer. On this episode, we
Speaker 1: each had a Hibernation ale, which is an English style
Speaker 1: old ale. And I'll go ahead and say that the
Speaker 1: artwork for this can I love it. Man. It's it's
Speaker 1: like baby blue and navy and white and it is
Speaker 1: winter all the way. Like it's got a it's got
Speaker 1: a picture of a person cross country skiing, Yeah, exactly
Speaker 1: across this sort of a winter mountain landscape. It speaks
Speaker 1: of winter and you know, the holidays, like the holidays
Speaker 1: are behind us, but still it's still cold as I'll
Speaker 1: get out out there and we're the thick of winter
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, it does feel fitting, And yeah, I
Speaker 1: love the name. Hibernation just makes me kind of like
Speaker 1: want to curl up the fire, curl the warm blanket
Speaker 1: and a beer in a book. Totally, this is one
Speaker 1: of the best names, especially for this style of beer.
Speaker 1: This this the flavors that are presented. Man, this one's perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think old Ales don't get enough street cred. I
Speaker 1: feel like I taste all the things I love about
Speaker 1: winter in this glass. Kind of the spice notes. Old
Speaker 1: Ales have like a stout tendency in some of the darker,
Speaker 1: richer flavor profiles, but without kind of that thick mouth feel.
Speaker 1: And so it can be like this lighter bodied version
Speaker 1: of something that you might not enjoy necessarily if you
Speaker 1: don't like stouts, this is something that you might want
Speaker 1: to try. There's more spice involved. I feel like there's
Speaker 1: like a little bit of like dark fruit kind of
Speaker 1: somewhere hidden in this beer. And and so yeah, I
Speaker 1: really really like this one. And it's just, again, like
Speaker 1: I said, a style that I don't drink enough of.
Speaker 1: It's one that I really really like and appreciate. And
Speaker 1: not many people brew a good one, but this is
Speaker 1: a good one. Yeah, totally. I like what you said
Speaker 1: about the dark fruits makes me think of kind of
Speaker 1: some dried dates or like raisins a little bit maybe big,
Speaker 1: something like that exactly, which totally fits within the flavor
Speaker 1: profile of this beer. It makes me think of my
Speaker 1: my grandma, my dad's mom used to make this. I
Speaker 1: think we call it. We just called it brown bread.
Speaker 1: But it's this old school head that you would make
Speaker 1: using like molasses and you put raisins in it, and
Speaker 1: you would bake it in a coffee can, like an
Speaker 1: old school coffee can. Really, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is like Depression era baking Golden Rams. He doesn't make
Speaker 1: stuff like that, although he probably does because it's hit.
Speaker 1: But because you bake it in the old coffee can,
Speaker 1: it puts lines in it because of the from the can,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about, So it comes out
Speaker 1: as this sort of giant bullet shape with these lines
Speaker 1: that kind of graduate up as you go. And Man,
Speaker 1: my childhood, I remember that was that was one of
Speaker 1: the things I loved about visiting my grandparents is brown bread.
Speaker 1: I think everybody else hated it, but I loved it.
Speaker 1: It was the way you're describing it, I can totally
Speaker 1: see how this beer which flavor profile. It's totally got
Speaker 1: those notes in it. So yeah, I need to try
Speaker 1: brown bread, and I think it would pare perfectly with
Speaker 1: this man Well, on the other side of my family,
Speaker 1: I feel like this beer also has like a touch
Speaker 1: of soy sauce. So I'm bringing in both sides of
Speaker 1: my family, ringing in the Midwestern Americans with the Korean.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's sort of has this darker flavor to
Speaker 1: it that you that you do find in soy sauce.
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to describe it. But if
Speaker 1: you pick one of these up, but you'll taste it too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what, And I would suggest sticking to one
Speaker 1: because if you drink three, you definitely will fall into
Speaker 1: a hibernation and you don't want to do that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this was hibernation nail by great divide. Big thanks to
Speaker 1: our friends over there for sending this one our way.
Speaker 1: It was a real pleasure to drink it on the
Speaker 1: show with you today, my friend. Most definitely all right,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode. For everyone out
Speaker 1: there listening, we'd love it if you would stick with
Speaker 1: our podcast throughout this year because we've got tons of
Speaker 1: money saving advice that we want to throw your way
Speaker 1: in And you can check out our show notes for
Speaker 1: this specific episode on our website at how to money
Speaker 1: dot com. Yeah, and if you dig what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: make sure that you hit subscribe. That way, you don't
Speaker 1: miss an episode every time they come out. We release
Speaker 1: one every Monday, every Wednesday, and while you're over in
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast if you haven't already, we would love if
Speaker 1: you were to leave us a review that helps others
Speaker 1: to find the show who need to learn how to
Speaker 1: handle their money better. Our buddy. Until next time, Best
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out, um M