Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two. It's your mentor Kathy Schwartz
Speaker 1: from The Golden Bachelor and the podcast Bachelor Happy Hour
Speaker 1: Golden Hour. Today, I've got an amazing guest from Bachelor Nation,
Speaker 1: former Bachelorette now in her chapter two, Ashley A Bear. So, actually,
Speaker 1: you were first a contestant on Brad Womack season, and
Speaker 1: Brad lives in Austin like I do, so there's that connection.
Speaker 1: And then you went on to star in The Bachelorette
Speaker 1: for our audience, you know who may not know, tell
Speaker 1: them how it all turned out for you, your season
Speaker 1: as a bachelorette.
Speaker 2: Goodness. Yeah, it's a long story. I would say overall,
Speaker 2: it was a very successful part of my life, even
Speaker 2: though it didn't turn out in you know, a marriage.
Speaker 2: We were married for ten years. But I feel like,
Speaker 2: even though we didn't stay married, like what came of
Speaker 2: being on the show and our relationship is like such
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing and such an important part of my
Speaker 2: life and his life and our lives together. And even
Speaker 2: though we're not, you know, even though we're not in love,
Speaker 2: we still have a great relationship and I feel like
Speaker 2: we've created two like amazing human beings. And we just
Speaker 2: live a very happy, fruitful life. So I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of good things came out. I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people say, oh, it wasn't a success,
Speaker 2: it wasn't a true success story. But to us, it's
Speaker 2: like a real success because our lives are forever, you know,
Speaker 2: we're blessed by all of the things that the show
Speaker 2: brought to us. So I think it's a real success.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad to hear that. I would say it's
Speaker 1: a real success. I mean, you, how many contestants act
Speaker 1: actually marry the guy that they get engaged to. So
Speaker 1: the fact that you and JP did get married and
Speaker 1: had these two great kids and built a life for
Speaker 1: ten years, I mean that's really the building blocks of
Speaker 1: a good, happy life. So I'm with you. It's a success.
Speaker 1: It is, thank you.
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
Speaker 1: What was it like though, I'm curious being on the
Speaker 1: Golden Bachelor, I didn't get the guy, thankfully, But when
Speaker 1: you meet the guy, when you and JP are in
Speaker 1: the bubble and you're together, uh huh, what's it like then?
Speaker 1: What was it like then to transition into building that marriage,
Speaker 1: that relationship off camera?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I feel like JP and I are very whether
Speaker 2: cameras are on or off. I feel like it's hard
Speaker 2: for us to not be our authentic selves, and I
Speaker 2: think that was We're similar in that way, So I
Speaker 2: don't think it was a huge difference from going on
Speaker 2: camera to off camera in terms of who we were.
Speaker 2: We were still the same people. Definitely. Of course, a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, adjustments with your life changes, right
Speaker 2: like you're in the spotlight, and I think in a
Speaker 2: way it's great at first, but then you know when
Speaker 2: you start going through issues, like there's different challenges that
Speaker 2: you that you maybe deal with it differently because you're
Speaker 2: in the public eye. So yes, very interesting. I guess
Speaker 2: I haven't thought that it was so long ago to me.
Speaker 1: So that's where I was heading. So you know this
Speaker 1: as I do Part two. You're in your part two,
Speaker 1: your chapter two. I'm curious again because this plays out
Speaker 1: in the public eye. Did you see your divorce coming?
Speaker 1: Because everyone on the show, you know, we get behind
Speaker 1: the contestants, we believe in the fairy tale and so
Speaker 1: just have it break up and then have it publicly.
Speaker 1: Did you see it coming? Was it a surprise? Because
Speaker 1: I think that's where nation saw it as a surprise.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think maybe really early on
Speaker 2: there were some red flags that I had in my mind.
Speaker 2: I think everything shift in when we had kids. I
Speaker 2: think that's really what happened, and to this day now
Speaker 2: I know looking back why we didn't work out. We're
Speaker 2: two different people, two different we think of life, we
Speaker 2: see things differently, we see life very differently. So I
Speaker 2: can see it now. But I think when you get
Speaker 2: caught up at the beginning, you kind of just maybe
Speaker 2: push it off to the side, like the little red
Speaker 2: flags that you have here and there. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: think it was somewhat sudden, but it was like the
Speaker 2: first half of our marriage was very strong and then
Speaker 2: I felt like it kind of crumbled towards the end.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like sometimes when you're with someone,
Speaker 2: like are you as authentic as you are? You ever
Speaker 2: really being your true self. I think when people get
Speaker 2: put in situations when you have kids and you're you're
Speaker 2: dealing with, you know, making decisions for people that are
Speaker 2: very important in your life, like it puts you in
Speaker 2: a hard place and sometimes you see a person differently
Speaker 2: after that. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: No, it does. I'm sitting here thinking because I was
Speaker 1: married very young. I was married for almost forty six years,
Speaker 1: and my husband died by suicide. So that's that's okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay, thank you. But I bring that up only
Speaker 1: because you said it was sort of sudden and end
Speaker 1: of marriage. It can be sudden or it can grow
Speaker 1: or dissolve slowly over time. And you know, you've had
Speaker 1: to obviously he's gone, You've had to co parent. You've
Speaker 1: had to sort of build a life outside of marriage,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense with him, with raising kids, and
Speaker 1: that's got to be a whole nother strand of that
Speaker 1: you probably didn't anticipate. That's what I'm guessing.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you something funny now that I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about it, I kind of feel like co parenting him
Speaker 2: with him is easier than it was when we were married.
Speaker 2: Like we get along so well, I think, when expectations
Speaker 2: of each other are dropped and just who we are
Speaker 2: and we don't have any expectations for the other person
Speaker 2: except for just caring for your kids and putting your
Speaker 2: kids first and doing the right thing and setting a
Speaker 2: great example, we get along so well. You know, he
Speaker 2: comes over to my house, sits down and we talk
Speaker 2: for hours, like over a glass of wine. We still
Speaker 2: are you know, we're really good co parents.
Speaker 1: How old are your children now?
Speaker 2: There are nine and eleven?
Speaker 1: So did they again? I wasn't divorced, but my what
Speaker 1: immediately came to my mind? Do your children say to
Speaker 1: you because you're you know, it's a double edged sword.
Speaker 1: You're so successful co parenting. Why aren't mommy and daddy's
Speaker 1: still together? Do you ever get that?
Speaker 2: No, they don't ask that. They know how different we are.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, they understand. But it's really funny because we
Speaker 2: recently went to the Bahamas, like we vacation together. So
Speaker 2: for Springbok we took the kids to the Bahamas. I
Speaker 2: saw that and our son Ford goes, mom, Dad, this
Speaker 2: is a perfect opportunity for you guys to get back together.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I'm saying. I mean there was probably
Speaker 1: a kernel of truth in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the way he said it was so fun He's like,
Speaker 2: it's a perfect opportunity for you too.
Speaker 1: So I have a couple of quess So my parents,
Speaker 1: just so we're clear, if you remember the War of
Speaker 1: the Roses that was my parents divorce, There was nothing
Speaker 1: collaborative or congenial. Ever, no co parenting zipity do not.
Speaker 1: So I find the fact that you guys chose to
Speaker 1: vacation together amazing for your children. But I'm curious why
Speaker 1: was it important to do that? What made you guys
Speaker 1: come up with that idea?
Speaker 2: Honestly, we do everything together. We vacation together, we vacation,
Speaker 2: we went to Hawaii for two weeks last year. We
Speaker 2: just we love our kids, and we are still a
Speaker 2: family even though we're divorced, like we very much are like, okay,
Speaker 2: family time, family, dinner, family this, like we're very still,
Speaker 2: very much still a unit. I don't know if that
Speaker 2: makes sense to anyone else, it just works for us.
Speaker 2: And also, I think it's important to show your kids that.
Speaker 2: I know not everybody agrees with this, but I don't
Speaker 2: think marriage is for everybody. And I think that everyone's
Speaker 2: so scared to get divorced. It's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: my kids. But I think that when you try and
Speaker 2: you try and it doesn't work and it's not working
Speaker 2: and it's not healthy, I think it's okay to make
Speaker 2: that decision and to still, you know, move on your
Speaker 2: separate ways, but still have a great relationship and I
Speaker 2: think that's what we want to show our kids too, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be perfect for it to work.
Speaker 1: That's a great lesson to teach your children that you know,
Speaker 1: at a very basic level, mommy and daddy don't love
Speaker 1: each other in that way. But we love you guys,
Speaker 1: and we want you to grow up and be strong,
Speaker 1: great you know, adults, And this is how we're doing it.
Speaker 1: I think it's It may not be traditional, but who
Speaker 1: cares if it's working.
Speaker 2: Right, it displays healthy relationship.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Our relationship is not healthy when we were I mean,
Speaker 2: we were fighting and screaming and arguing, but we had
Speaker 2: a lot of tension between us and now we so
Speaker 2: we're showing more healthy relationships now with our kids than
Speaker 2: we did when we were married.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you to write a book. It'll be a
Speaker 1: best seller for us. But I have a question. Are
Speaker 1: either one of you dating? Because I only can imagine
Speaker 1: that that might complicate that chapter two of I'm Dating.
Speaker 1: But I'm also how does that work?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I when I so, Okay, let me think
Speaker 2: back here the timeline. So when we got divorced a
Speaker 2: year later, I dated somebody seriously for four years. We're
Speaker 2: not not together anymore, just you know, for that's a
Speaker 2: whole other podcast, but we're not together anymore. But I
Speaker 2: do think during that time it was really hard for JP,
Speaker 2: even though we still co parented respectfully. There was not
Speaker 2: around the kids, but when we were in like a
Speaker 2: Loane talk or if he was messaging me, I think
Speaker 2: there was some tension there for sure. I think the
Speaker 2: relationship was easier when my ex boyfriend and I kind
Speaker 2: of separated, like it was easier for him to feel
Speaker 2: more comfortable. I know he was very hurt when I
Speaker 2: moved on a year later. I don't ask him about
Speaker 2: his relationships because I don't want to interfere in that way,
Speaker 2: but I do think he dates on and off.
Speaker 1: Do you think he would get married again? I'm curious. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The reason I asked that is you said marriage isn't
Speaker 1: for everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so unpopular opinion, and I might get some heat
Speaker 2: from this, Like I don't. I don't. I would not
Speaker 2: personally get married again. I don't think marriage. This is
Speaker 2: another podcast. I don't think marriage isn't the best interest
Speaker 2: of a woman. But that's my own that's my own
Speaker 2: personal thing. That's my own personal thing.
Speaker 1: Actually, this this podcast is about you, so let's talk
Speaker 1: about that for a second. Why is it not in
Speaker 1: your best interest? I mean, you've got to get me more.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a good I don't want to I don't
Speaker 2: want to say anything too heated. I just think the
Speaker 2: I just think as Okay, let me how to try
Speaker 2: to explain. When I was in a relationship, I felt
Speaker 2: like all the time I had was given to someone else.
Speaker 2: There was no time for me. There was no everything
Speaker 2: I had belonged to someone else. I was expected to
Speaker 2: do this, this, this, care for this, do this, take
Speaker 2: care of this. There was nothing left for me. And
Speaker 2: I see myself as a successful person in all areas
Speaker 2: of my life. And I don't necessarily think marriage helped
Speaker 2: me with that. I think being a single woman allowed
Speaker 2: me to be more successful in all the areas of
Speaker 2: my life. And maybe that's not important to everybody, but
Speaker 2: for me, I just I thrived when I was not
Speaker 2: in a marriage, and even more when I'm not in
Speaker 2: a relationship. So for me, it's it's working for me
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: So okay, so first of all, let me just say
Speaker 1: this is your chapter two. You get to define it.
Speaker 1: You get, you know, it doesn't matter what other people think.
Speaker 1: You get to do this all on your terms, which
Speaker 1: is sort of what you're saying. I'm curious you said relate.
Speaker 1: Is it that if I think there's a financial piece
Speaker 1: here too? Women I think often stay in marriage is
Speaker 1: because they are financially insecure. They they need they can't
Speaker 1: survive on their own, right.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 1: So you are self reliant clearly, and that makes it
Speaker 1: easier to espouse the theory that you're you know that
Speaker 1: you're that you are. But I'm curious marriage. I think
Speaker 1: that's at really any age, lots of women are choosing
Speaker 1: to be single, have children single. But you just said
Speaker 1: you didn't even feel the need to be in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Is that tell me why that is?
Speaker 2: I think it's just where I'm at in my life.
Speaker 2: I think we all go through these periods, whether it's
Speaker 2: just I style, hormonal fluctuations, or whatever it is, but
Speaker 2: I think that we all go through our periods in
Speaker 2: our life where we need certain things. And where I'm
Speaker 2: at right now, I feel like I figured it out.
Speaker 2: If I have all these responsibilities in my free time,
Speaker 2: I need to be you know, like taking care of me,
Speaker 2: and when I'm in a relationship, I'm expected to take
Speaker 2: care of someone else, which is hard for me because
Speaker 2: all day I'm taking care of everybody else. So it's
Speaker 2: like I was left with nothing for me. And you know,
Speaker 2: some people say to me, oh, well, it's probably just
Speaker 2: the person you're with or the relationship you're you're in,
Speaker 2: and maybe you just didn't find the right person. And
Speaker 2: maybe that's true. But I'm just loving my life right
Speaker 2: now because it's just I can go home and I
Speaker 2: can do what I want to do right like I
Speaker 2: can spend time with my kids, and I can I
Speaker 2: have the I have so much freedom right now, and
Speaker 2: I sometimes feel like, and maybe this is a negative
Speaker 2: thing about me, is when I'm with someone, I feel
Speaker 2: almost like, oh, like I can't go do this because
Speaker 2: I got to be here doing I don't know, sitting
Speaker 2: on the couch with this. Like I just feel such
Speaker 2: a freedom in being single. So that's what's working for me.
Speaker 1: I admire that, I will tell you, because I'm a
Speaker 1: lot older than you are, and I think many women
Speaker 1: at your age, at least my friends, my daughter, they
Speaker 1: think they would call that, they would define that selfish.
Speaker 1: I want to be selfish. I haven't heard that word
Speaker 1: out of your mouth once. It's it's not being selfish,
Speaker 1: it's living the life that you're choosing to live.
Speaker 2: It's because I feel like when I was younger, it
Speaker 2: was like, oh my goodness, that's she's such a great mom.
Speaker 2: She does everything for her kids, she sacrifices everything. And
Speaker 2: I was that person. Yeah, and I woke up and
Speaker 2: I said, listen, like we got to teach women to
Speaker 2: take care of themselves. Like that's how you take care
Speaker 2: of your kids is when you have a happy mom
Speaker 2: that's well fed, that's well cared for, that's rested. Like
Speaker 2: that's when you truly can be your best self as
Speaker 2: a mom. And I feel like, I don't know why
Speaker 2: we think that over like working women and sacrifice and
Speaker 2: sacrifice and sacrifice is like a good mom.
Speaker 1: I hear you. You're singing to the choiry or so.
Speaker 1: When my parents were divorceding, I was young. I was six,
Speaker 1: and I remember that I wanted again. Divorce is much
Speaker 1: more prevalent now than it was when I was young,
Speaker 1: but I remember I wanted. I'm curious what your kids say,
Speaker 1: if they if they if they see you as this
Speaker 1: independent woman, if they or and this happy satisfied person,
Speaker 1: or do they or simultaneously say to you, but you know,
Speaker 1: I would like to have that normal relationship that kids have,
Speaker 1: you know, mom and dad, a dog and a fence
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Or do they how do they feel
Speaker 1: about your life choices question?
Speaker 2: I would love to ask them. My kids are very like.
Speaker 2: Let me give you a perfect example when when our
Speaker 2: kids were little, when we got divorced, and when we
Speaker 2: sat in the kitchen and told them, my son, who
Speaker 2: was four and a half at the time, said, we
Speaker 2: said it. We had to say it a couple of
Speaker 2: times because we weren't sure if he was understanding, and
Speaker 2: he said, oh, no, I understand, and I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2: Like they are. So they're just they're different. I think
Speaker 2: these kids are our kids are just different. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're like old souls or they
Speaker 2: just have like a really mature mindset and a very
Speaker 2: they grew up in a very like, respectful, healthy family,
Speaker 2: and I think that they truly embody what we've always
Speaker 2: wanted them to be by displaying behaviors of respect towards
Speaker 2: each other and thoughtfulness and kindness like I just think
Speaker 2: they're like really good kids.
Speaker 1: You should ask them. I'm very curious because.
Speaker 2: We should bring them on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We should bring them on the podcast. Your son was
Speaker 1: four and a half. Few have a daughter as well, right.
Speaker 2: Younger she was like she too, well, let me let
Speaker 2: me think back my timeline here, because she might have
Speaker 2: been she was really young, like we couldn't she wasn't understanding,
Speaker 2: So I think maybe she was two and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was four and a half. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 2: long time ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways my son got worse when
Speaker 1: his daughter was two and a half, and in some ways,
Speaker 1: your children it's all they know, especially since you and
Speaker 1: your ex husband are respectful to each other. It's the
Speaker 1: relationship they know it is. It is not abnormal. I
Speaker 1: hate use network, but you know it's normal to them
Speaker 1: because that's what they've grown up with.
Speaker 2: Right, They're not tormented by it. They're not like I
Speaker 2: wish you too were I've never never once have they
Speaker 2: said I wish you two were together.
Speaker 1: Like, how did they feel about the guy you dated
Speaker 1: for four years?
Speaker 2: They loved him?
Speaker 1: How was that when he left?
Speaker 2: So he only met them a year into our relationship,
Speaker 2: so we were very you know, like I wanted to
Speaker 2: make sure I didn't want to introduce them to him
Speaker 2: and if we weren't sure about the relationship. So how
Speaker 2: so my son, for my son, Ford, he's eleven, He's
Speaker 2: a very active boy, very like silly, funny, active, sporty,
Speaker 2: and they would interact a lot like they had their
Speaker 2: you know, fun time. But you know, my ex and
Speaker 2: I are still friends. We still see him sometimes.
Speaker 1: Well, you are a modern woman, I really am.
Speaker 2: But you know what it is like when I care
Speaker 2: about someone and when I love someone, I really do.
Speaker 2: It doesn't just shut off like that. I can't just
Speaker 2: be have a great relationship with someone and then just
Speaker 2: cut them out of my life. Like those people are
Speaker 2: very important people. They still live in my heart. So
Speaker 2: there's definitely still you know, still interaction with people in
Speaker 2: my past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just again, this was not my relationship. I've
Speaker 1: told you, it was just abysmal. H My parents got
Speaker 1: divorced and then so it was a very different situation.
Speaker 1: I applaud you for that. I think I have a couple.
Speaker 1: I have so many questions, but well, because you are
Speaker 1: so different in a very positive way. I love the
Speaker 1: message of sending to women. But so many women out
Speaker 1: there you mess you mentioned earlier, you know there are
Speaker 1: women out there who are contemplating getting out of a marriage.
Speaker 1: They want a chapter two? What would you say to
Speaker 1: them to make them? How would you tell them to
Speaker 1: approach the decision making?
Speaker 2: I guess it's a good question. I get a lot
Speaker 2: of messages from people. Actually, when I got when I
Speaker 2: we got when we announced our divorce, I got messages
Speaker 2: from people I knew, like in person, about how did
Speaker 2: you know? That's the real question I always get, like
Speaker 2: how did you know your marriage was over? Like what
Speaker 2: was it? Without sharing too many details, there was one moment,
Speaker 2: like something that happened where I was like, yep, this
Speaker 2: is this is it. There's no turning back from this.
Speaker 2: So this is you know, this is it for me.
Speaker 2: But I know that a lot of women, especially if
Speaker 2: they have kids, go back and forth and like what's
Speaker 2: the best for their kids? Like I think women truly
Speaker 2: and men too probably, But I know the messages I've
Speaker 2: got from women is like I don't want to ruin
Speaker 2: my family and I don't want to mess up my kids,
Speaker 2: and I like they're always thinking about their kids, and
Speaker 2: like I said before, if you have tried and tried
Speaker 2: at your relationship. First off, I think everybody should try
Speaker 2: to make it work. It's not like, oh it's not working,
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. You know, try to make it work.
Speaker 2: We did therapy. We you know, it went on for
Speaker 2: a long time. But I think that also it's like
Speaker 2: it might not work. And I think it's O Number
Speaker 2: one knowing it's okay to have a failed marriage. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's called failed, but people call it failed.
Speaker 2: I think divorce is okay if it's not working for you.
Speaker 2: You have one life to live. You know what I
Speaker 2: would always say to myself, do tell no, I no no.
Speaker 2: I would always say like this, And this is no
Speaker 2: offense to JP, because you know we talk all the time.
Speaker 2: I'll even tell them I said this like I felt,
Speaker 2: you know how women they hold in a lot of stress,
Speaker 2: and it says it leads to like audio immune diseases.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this marriage is going to kill me, Like
Speaker 2: it's going to kill me. Like, so I made the
Speaker 2: decision because I'm like, I care about myself and my
Speaker 2: health a lot, and especially for the kids, my longevity
Speaker 2: and for to be there for my kids. So I
Speaker 2: kind of thought about it like that. But I also
Speaker 2: think the most important thing is like, if you're not
Speaker 2: in a healthy relationship, that's not great for your kids.
Speaker 2: Everyone thinks sticking around an unhealthy tension like that's not
Speaker 2: good for kids. So I think that if if it's unhealthy,
Speaker 2: if you've worked at it, it's okay.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you. I just on my podcast
Speaker 1: Golden Now. We just had this conversation the other day.
Speaker 1: I think that oftentimes marriages, people go through the motions
Speaker 1: you said, oh, we did counseling, almost like ticking the box.
Speaker 1: Because I don't know how you feel about this, but
Speaker 1: I'm interested. Do you think many marriages, many relationships, it
Speaker 1: is a box ticking when really, in your heart of hearts,
Speaker 1: you knew you said this is going to kill me.
Speaker 1: You knew that you weren't happy, that it was not
Speaker 1: a good thing for you. So is the therapy just
Speaker 1: something you did to check the box?
Speaker 2: No? I mean I really wanted to see if there
Speaker 2: was a way to fix the issues. I really did,
Speaker 2: and I think he did too. I didn't. I don't
Speaker 2: think about it as checking a box, but maybe other
Speaker 2: people do. I really was curious to see if there
Speaker 2: was a way if this was normal for two people.
Speaker 2: But then it just got the therapy got a little weird, honestly.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: It just got a little funky, Like it just felt
Speaker 2: what what I'll tell you is that I felt like
Speaker 2: when we were on camera it was different from when
Speaker 2: so we were doing it through zoom because it was
Speaker 2: during COVID by the way, Oh got it. Oh, when
Speaker 2: we were doing the zoom, like I felt like after
Speaker 2: the computer close, like it was like a different dynamic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there was a different dynamic. So this is this is
Speaker 2: not like anybody can just sit here and I could
Speaker 2: talk to you and be whoever I want you to
Speaker 2: think I am, and then when I close the box
Speaker 2: be my normal self again. So it was just like
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just it didn't work. Something happened
Speaker 2: and it didn't work, And I won't share that because
Speaker 2: that's a little like too personal.
Speaker 1: Wait, I'm sorry, you just I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure I understand something happened in therapy or something is
Speaker 1: something happened in your life with JP?
Speaker 2: Yes, with JP, something that like a moment a conversation, Right,
Speaker 2: it had to do with a therapy session? Ah, Okay,
Speaker 2: it was something that happened, and I said, no, got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I didn't know if you were saying they
Speaker 1: or the marriage. Well, you know, it sounds like you
Speaker 1: are very different from certainly my experience with divorce, I
Speaker 1: will say in reading about you, and you know, I'm
Speaker 1: in my chapter two of life, and I always come
Speaker 1: and sort of think about how even though we're different
Speaker 1: ages and my kids are grown and I have grandchildren
Speaker 1: chapter two. I don't know what I want to say.
Speaker 1: Chapter two targets, for lack of a better word, seem
Speaker 1: to be similar for women across the board, whether you're
Speaker 1: choosing yourself, your career, whatever it is. We take time,
Speaker 1: we feel good about our chapter two. We feel good
Speaker 1: about making decisions that are best for us. And I
Speaker 1: find that interesting that age doesn't seem to change that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that different.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's so hard because I see some people in chapter
Speaker 2: two like oh I want this, or so many people
Speaker 2: are pushing me like oh you know, go do this
Speaker 2: or be with this or be with this type of person,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm so happy here in my chapter two,
Speaker 2: just you know, enjoying life and my kids and really
Speaker 2: taking the time that I have and putting it where
Speaker 2: I want to be, you know, And I feel like
Speaker 2: I never got to experience that when I was younger.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So so you don't want to date right now where
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 2: I don't want to date right now.
Speaker 1: You don't want to date. That's how you have plenty
Speaker 1: of time.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I wonder like, sorry, this is maybe TMI, but
Speaker 2: like there's part I mean forty I'm about to be
Speaker 2: forty two, and I feel like my hormones really, like
Speaker 2: I really understand human nature now in terms of women's hormones.
Speaker 3: Which I know that's a whole other podcast or a
Speaker 3: medical podcast, but I feel like my hormones have shifted
Speaker 3: so much in like what how I feel on a
Speaker 3: day to day, Like sometimes I feel super feminine and
Speaker 3: I want, you know, to go on a second sorry
Speaker 3: sexy vacation with somebody and enjoy time at the pool,
Speaker 3: and the next day, I'm going to be a badass bitch,
Speaker 3: Like I'm just going to be like you know, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna work my butt off, I'm going to do great.
Speaker 2: I'm going to do everything I need for the kids.
Speaker 2: Like I just feel so different every day that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to understand myself a little better in this like
Speaker 2: in my fotys.
Speaker 1: Can it all be true? I mean, it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be one or the other, right, yeah, right, But.
Speaker 2: The only thing it's confusing because it's like some days
Speaker 2: I want one thing, like some days I want to date,
Speaker 2: and then the next day I'm like, Nope, I don't
Speaker 2: want to date. So that's the tricky part that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to understand. But I think just time will reveal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, it's not. It's like
Speaker 1: some days you want vanill ice cream, some days you
Speaker 1: want chocolate ice cream. You know it doesn't. So I'm
Speaker 1: curious what advice would you give women? Because you clearly
Speaker 1: are very content successful in your chapter two. Not all
Speaker 1: women feel that way. So how would you tell a
Speaker 1: woman to find her happy place? How would you tell
Speaker 1: her how to date? What advice would you give to
Speaker 1: women your age or close to your age who are
Speaker 1: entering chapter their chapter two?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I would tell anybody, anybody going
Speaker 2: into chapter two, or anybody in their chapter one or
Speaker 2: whatever chapter they're in, is I truly believe in a
Speaker 2: woman's body and their like their gut if you have
Speaker 2: to force something, like if you fighting something it's not
Speaker 2: right for you, you have to go where like the
Speaker 2: waterfall will push you like naturally, like if you're always
Speaker 2: like for me, when something's not right for me, I'm
Speaker 2: fighting back, I'm fighting back against it. But then you
Speaker 2: have to just release and let it go like that,
Speaker 2: like trust yourself in knowing what's right for you. If
Speaker 2: your marriage isn't working, or if your relationship or isn't working,
Speaker 2: or your job isn't working, stop fighting it, Stop fighting it.
Speaker 2: You do the work. It's okay to let go. It's
Speaker 2: okay to shift, it's okay to to make decisions that
Speaker 2: are best for you. It's okay to be a little
Speaker 2: selfish because when you take care of yourself, guess what,
Speaker 2: You're a better mom, You're a better friend. Yeah, you're
Speaker 2: a better person.
Speaker 1: It's putting the oxygen mask on yourself first.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love who I am because I take care
Speaker 2: of myself so I can be my best self for
Speaker 2: everybody around me. So that's kind of I don't know.
Speaker 2: That was a lot of different things. I think I
Speaker 2: only learned that as I was getting older, because like
Speaker 2: in my thirties, I was, you know, it's like suffering,
Speaker 2: was it's like almost like women. I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you if they make you or society
Speaker 2: makes you think like suffering is part of like being
Speaker 2: a woman and like giving everything to everybody and not
Speaker 2: caring for yourself. And I think that needs to shift,
Speaker 2: Like that's that's what I would tell people, care for yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's great advice. I do
Speaker 1: think that as women, and you've said it very very succinctly,
Speaker 1: that women are expected to do it all and give
Speaker 1: all and be all to everyone, and sometimes we get
Speaker 1: lost in the shuffle or what we want for ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's hard about getting from If
Speaker 1: you're going from chapter one to chapter two, again, you
Speaker 1: and I are both in our chapter two is we
Speaker 1: got here in very different ways. I think what I've
Speaker 1: learned first, I was going to take what I've learned.
Speaker 1: What is the biggest thing you've learned about yourself from
Speaker 1: going from chapter one to chapter two, other than to
Speaker 1: take care of yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. I think I've learned that
Speaker 2: maybe I don't like, maybe I don't follow the mold
Speaker 2: in that way like I had different beliefs about things,
Speaker 2: and also I'm open to changing my beliefs. Maybe I
Speaker 2: think that I learned when I care about myself, I'm
Speaker 2: a better person all around. For my kids, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of small this is something that I learned.
Speaker 2: This is so silly. I don't even know if you're
Speaker 2: going to care about this.
Speaker 1: Of course I care, and it's never silly, but go ahead.
Speaker 2: This has helped me so much in my life, in
Speaker 2: every different in business, in keeping my house tidy, and
Speaker 2: caring for my kids, in saving money for this, Like
Speaker 2: all these little, these little steps, all these little things
Speaker 2: that you do, add up to something really big one day.
Speaker 2: So I used to push myself ashlely, do this, actually
Speaker 2: do that. I was grinding, grinding, and then you know
Speaker 2: what happened. I burnt out and I was left with nothing.
Speaker 2: And then I decided to do just a little bit
Speaker 2: every day, and guess what, I cared for myself and
Speaker 2: it turned into something really big in every aspect of
Speaker 2: my life. So small steps equal something big in the end.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny you say that, because I agree
Speaker 1: with you wholeheartedly. I also what I've learned. It's okay
Speaker 1: to say no. I mean, among other.
Speaker 2: Things, that's really that's a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've learned to say no. And I've also learned,
Speaker 1: which you seem to have mastered expertly. I've learned I'm
Speaker 1: not everybody's cup of tea, and not everyone's going to
Speaker 1: agree with the way I live my life.
Speaker 2: And that's okay, that's okay, and that's something you learn
Speaker 2: like later in life. I find right, we're all so
Speaker 2: insecure when we're younger about there's too many people in
Speaker 2: the world to please.
Speaker 1: Sorry, but I think it your I mean, I have,
Speaker 1: I have a son on it's going to be forty one.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that you have mastered the
Speaker 1: art of you in a in a I don't know why,
Speaker 1: just the circumstances of your life that really could be
Speaker 1: a model to other women, because I do think we're
Speaker 1: expected to, you know, when the just even basic things
Speaker 1: like when the kid is sick, who stays home his
Speaker 1: the mom? You know it's right. You know, there's books
Speaker 1: written about mother daughter connection and it's just it's it's
Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost a cultural expectation that we have
Speaker 1: to learn two to say no, no more. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do this. That's not what my life is
Speaker 1: going to be. And you seem to have mastered it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, I hope. So I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm not perfect, definitely, And don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with my kids and I'm constantly like doing
Speaker 2: everything for them. But when there are moments where are
Speaker 2: there are opportunities for me to step away and stop
Speaker 2: pushing and stop pushing, I take them and I used
Speaker 2: to not take them.
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think you're raising your kids?
Speaker 1: This is something I struggled with. How do you teach
Speaker 1: your kids the really important lessons that you want them
Speaker 1: to learn about about life?
Speaker 2: How do you do that by being a role model
Speaker 2: to them? Like I truly feel like I could tell
Speaker 2: my kids, you know, make sure you take care of yourself,
Speaker 2: make sure you speak to this person this way. But
Speaker 2: if you're not doing that yourself, then I don't think
Speaker 2: that it's going to you know, soak in with your kids,
Speaker 2: like I truly, in every situation around my kids try
Speaker 2: to be what I would want them to be. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that makes sense. And my son, especially
Speaker 2: who he's he's a little edgy, Like he's he's rambunctious,
Speaker 2: and he has a tendency to go towards kind of
Speaker 2: like he's edgy. That's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what edgy means. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to dig I just I.
Speaker 2: Know he's edgy. He's like he'll push boundaries with you
Speaker 2: or like he'll like he's a kind person, he will
Speaker 2: never you know, he's a very kind person, but he
Speaker 2: likes to he likes to live on the edge. So
Speaker 2: for him, you know, like, and I always tell JP
Speaker 2: what's important to me is that he is obviously a
Speaker 2: good person cares for people, but that he is a
Speaker 2: gentleman and cares about his mom and cares about the
Speaker 2: women in his life, so his sister. He has to
Speaker 2: take great care of his sister and his future significant
Speaker 2: other if he ever decides to do that. And I
Speaker 2: always tell JP, like how you speak to me like
Speaker 2: he's watching you. You know, our kids are watching us,
Speaker 2: So you know we talk about that a lot. So
Speaker 2: we just try to be the best people we can
Speaker 2: be working.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, but again, I mean the thing that you're saying,
Speaker 1: Ashley is I just I was just saying this. On
Speaker 1: another podcast, she was asking me about advice for mothering,
Speaker 1: and I said, your children are not going to listen
Speaker 1: to what you say. They're going to watch what you do.
Speaker 1: And so if you want to be the good role model,
Speaker 1: don't tell them what to do, show them what to do.
Speaker 1: And you are forty two years old, and it is
Speaker 1: amazing to me. Maybe I'm just out of touch, but
Speaker 1: you couldn't be more right. I mean, that is exactly
Speaker 1: and you're doing it. You're doing it.
Speaker 2: So they're turning out pretty good.
Speaker 1: So for I mean to be fair, Ashley, they have
Speaker 1: not hit the teen years yet. We're gonna in two
Speaker 1: more years, I'm going to ask you how things are going.
Speaker 1: You might have a different answer, right right, Sure, you
Speaker 1: know that's part. That's part of raising teenager. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's their fight for independence. That's just a normal stage too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm living this stage right now. It's like they're
Speaker 2: they're independent, they're curious, they're fun, they're funny, they have
Speaker 2: their own personalities, but they're not living like they're not
Speaker 2: going out on their own right. It's like that's a
Speaker 2: whole different worry that I'm not ready for.
Speaker 1: Well, the good news is you know, you do have
Speaker 1: a few more years before you have to worry about that.
Speaker 1: But I actually, you know, I actually did watch your season.
Speaker 1: It was a long time ago, but I watched it,
Speaker 1: and I think that this is just another example you
Speaker 1: and your your divorce, You're moving on your relationship with
Speaker 1: JP and your kids. You are such a good role
Speaker 1: model for bachelorette that what life, you know, what starts
Speaker 1: as a reality TV show for you turned into a
Speaker 1: real life marriage, a real life Now you're building your
Speaker 1: chapter two, and I think that message is just as
Speaker 1: important as the fairy tale we met on TV and
Speaker 1: fell in love and got married. I love that you
Speaker 1: are building a strong life for yourself and that you
Speaker 1: still have a great family unit and great kids and
Speaker 1: a great relationship with JP. That is to be commended.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much. You're so sweet. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really, I really have enjoyed chatting with you,
Speaker 1: and I kind of wish that I had had this
Speaker 1: conversation when I was raising my kids. But alas and
Speaker 1: a lack, I'm now a grandmother and now I just
Speaker 1: have to, you know, uh, hope to do better myself,
Speaker 1: you know, do better with my grandkids. One last question,
Speaker 1: I need some advice because I struggle sometimes.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: How do you work because I, you know, I have
Speaker 1: these kids and I have issues with adult kids, and
Speaker 1: my life is somewhat complicated like many people. How do
Speaker 1: you work on love? What's the best thing I can
Speaker 1: do loving yourself? What advice do you give for someone
Speaker 1: to aside from taking time for yourself? What is the
Speaker 1: self talk?
Speaker 2: A good question? You know what I have to do
Speaker 2: sometimes I have to think of myself. I have to
Speaker 2: think of myself as someone else when I think back,
Speaker 2: like I think of myself as my daughter a lot.
Speaker 2: And I say, because I'm hard on myself, right, like
Speaker 2: did I do this right? Did I do this the
Speaker 2: right way? And when I look back on my life
Speaker 2: and I think of me as someone else and all
Speaker 2: the things that that person has accomplished, and I think
Speaker 2: to myself, wow, like they did it, Like they overcame this,
Speaker 2: they did this, they created this, they were so successful
Speaker 2: with this, And then I can really just say, hey, Ashley,
Speaker 2: good job. Like it's almost like it's foreign for me
Speaker 2: to look at myself and say, wow, Ashley, you did it,
Speaker 2: Like you did a great job, Ashley. But sometimes I
Speaker 2: look at myself as if I was my daughter, and
Speaker 2: that helps me kind of shift and allow myself to
Speaker 2: give credit to myself, like you did this, You're a badass,
Speaker 2: like good for you. And I don't know why I'm
Speaker 2: like that, but yeah, often thinking of myself as someone
Speaker 2: else is really helps me give the credit that I
Speaker 2: probably deserve.
Speaker 1: I actually love that idea. I'm going to try that
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes if you take yourself out, whether
Speaker 1: it's pretending your daughter your daughter, or just taking yourself
Speaker 1: out in like three faces of eve, you know, talking
Speaker 1: to somebody else that's right there across the room, your
Speaker 1: alter ego, whatever, saying congratulating yourself, patting yourself on the back,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's the most affirming. I've never thought of it
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: Or sometimes I think of myself as like a young
Speaker 2: kid because I grew up in a really small town,
Speaker 2: like in the middle of nowhere, and I always knew
Speaker 2: I wanted to get out, and I always knew I
Speaker 2: wanted to I dreamed so big, like I almost had
Speaker 2: this faith in myself that you know, was like almost unrealistic.
Speaker 2: But you know what, when you believe in your yourself
Speaker 2: like that, and you keep going and you like put
Speaker 2: put it in your mind that you can do it,
Speaker 2: like you can really do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's and you've done it, and that
Speaker 1: is the self talk. I love this. I love hearing
Speaker 1: a woman your age when so many women are fighting
Speaker 1: like we started this off, you know, going through divorces,
Speaker 1: going through such our times. You have such a positive
Speaker 1: outlook and I love it. I love hearing it. And
Speaker 1: I hope that other women who are in uh trying
Speaker 1: to figure out are they going to stick in part one?
Speaker 1: Are they going to move to part two? What are
Speaker 1: they going to do with their lives? I hope everything
Speaker 1: you've said today gives them take care of themselves and
Speaker 1: and and can build whatever it is they want to
Speaker 1: build in their life. Wow, Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: Good talking to you.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed talking to you too, Ashley. I did I
Speaker 1: really have a therapy session and it didn't cost either
Speaker 1: one of us or.
Speaker 2: Dot And we're not just checking a box, by the.
Speaker 1: Way, way, we are not checking boxes. Well, let's do
Speaker 1: you need some advice on how to navigate dating? In
Speaker 1: chapter two, call us or email us. All the info
Speaker 1: is in the show notes, follow us on socials, and
Speaker 1: make sure to rate and review the podcast. I Do
Speaker 1: Part two, an iHeart podcast where falling in love is
Speaker 1: the main objective.