WEBVTT - Why Can't Dogs Eat Chocolate? 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.040 Hey, welcome to Science Stuff production of iHeartRadio. I'm Hora 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:06.920 Cham and today we are answering the question why can 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:11.559 dogs eat chocolate? Will a Hershey's kiss be the kiss 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.280 of death for your pooch? Or will a roller bar 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.000 make your dog roll over into the grave? How toxic 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.000 is chocolate to dogs? Why is it toxic? And when 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:25.040 do dogs evolve this intolerance. We'll talk to a couple 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:29.400 of veterinary toxicologists and to one dog geneticis to get 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.920 to the nougat center of this question. So come along 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.879 as we answer the question why can dogs eat chocolate? 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.480 I promise the answer won't be rough. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:46.640 Hi. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.920 Everyone, you've probably heard that eating chocolate is bad for dogs. People, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.560 it seems, can eat a lot of chocolate and chocoholics, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.480 I'm looking at you, but it seems to be dangerous 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:03.480 or even potentially deadly for dogs. Now, most people seem 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.320 to think that's because chocolate has a chemical in it 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.640 that is uniquely toxic for dogs, but that is perfectly 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.319 safe for humans. But as we'll learn today, that's not 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.000 really true. First, we'll talk about how serious it is 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.800 if a dog eats chocolate. Then we'll talk about what 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.679 chocolate does to dogs, and in the last segment, we'll 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.600 ask an evolutionary biologist to tell us when scientists think 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:32.399 this sensitivity evolved in dogs and spoiler alert, it may 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:37.160 be some humans's fault. Okay, the first topic is how 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.640 serious is it if a dog eats chocolate? So the 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.200 first thing I did was call an emergency hotline, not 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.520 because my dog had eaten chocolate, but to talk to 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.400 one of their experts. So here's my chat with doctor 0:01:50.600 --> 0:02:02.600 Renee Schmidt. Thank you for calling Pet Poison Helpline, a 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.280 twenty four to seven animal poison control center. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.360 If you are a pet owner, please press one. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:12.600 Well, thank you doctor Schmidt for joining us. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.400 Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm doctor 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.400 Rene Schmid with Pet Poison Helpline. I'm the director of 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:24.480 Veterinary Medicine and senior veterinary toxicologist, so I help educate 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.880 pet owners as well as venary professionals on anything toxin related, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.320 as well as working with our staff internally. 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:32.239 Amazing. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.359 Can you tell us about Pet Poison Hotline. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.680 We are a twenty four to seven animal poison control 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.680 center and so pet parents as well as veterinary professionals 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.320 can call us, and if an animal has been exposed 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.360 to something that may be toxic, we can assess it 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.840 to determine if the exposure is going to be a 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.120 concern for that animal or not. While the vast majority 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.400 of calls we receive are end dogs and cats, so 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.360 we can help with any species of animal and with 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.360 anything that they get into. So we had a sloth 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.200 that's got into a cleaning chemical. We had a goose 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.639 not too long ago that got into marijuana. You name it, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.880 and we've probably gotten a call on it. And we're 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.440 staff twenty four hours a day. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.160 And you said you're all over the country, so we. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.679 Take calls all over the country and really all over 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.240 the world. So the vast majority of our calls are 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.480 from the United States and Canada. We also take calls 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.640 from the Caribbean and Hong Kong and other countries throughout 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:30.160 the world. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.000 Oh my goodness, And how do you cover twenty four hours? 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.880 Are you just constantly on calls. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.520 Yeah, so we're a busy place. It's amazing how many 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.440 animals get into things that they couldn't. We have employees 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.080 who have ships throughout the day and evenings so that 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:48.120 we always have veterinarians and technicians who are on and 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.920 ready to take calls at any time. 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.000 How often do you get calls about dogs eating chocolate? 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.320 It's our number one call, It's our most common call. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.080 I've been here for twelve years, we've been in business 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.360 for twenty one years, and it's been our number one 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.400 toxin every year since we've been keeping track. We always 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.640 look back the year prior to see what was our 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.320 top toxins, and chocolate always I always say it takes 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.640 the cake. It's always number one. You know, if you 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.520 think about it, so many households have chocolate in them. 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.960 Maybe we're cooking with it, we're buying it in different 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.120 products or candy and chocolate itself, or maybe it's in 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.320 brownies and cookies for the holidays, we're gifting it, and 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.039 so maybe it's under the tree, or it's sitting out 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.520 at parties and you know, activities and social events. So 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.599 it's something that is really a commonplace in so many 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:44.360 households that it smells good, it tastes good, so dogs 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.600 are naturally kind of drawn to it. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.600 You say it takes the chocolate cake. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.240 Yes, that's right, it takes the chocolate cake, for sure. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.200 So, yeah, there are a lot of dogs out there 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.640 eating chocolate. Another animal poison control center would run by 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.000 the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:09.040 or ASBCA, reported that they receive about seventy six calls 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.120 a day of dogs eating chocolate, which translates to about 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:18.520 twenty seven thousand, seven hundred and forty cases a year. Next, 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.000 I ask sector SMIT, what happens if a dog eats chocolate? 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.320 What are some of the symptoms dogs might exhibit if 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:27.080 they eat it. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:32.160 Yeah, so symptoms are similar to over simulation. So they 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.000 might be a little bit restless, they might be pacing, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.320 panting that maybe agitate a little bit. They can have 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.400 a high heart rate, They can have a high blood 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.919 pressure depending on how much they ingest. They can have 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:52.240 heart abnormalities in rhythm abnormalities. Vomiting is certainly a common one, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.200 as well as maybe some loose stool, and in some 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.479 cases it may not even be a toxic amount that 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.039 they get into. The can have a risk for pincreatitis, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.840 which is just that inflammation of the pancreas when they 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.560 get a high fat meal, and because of the richness 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:12.039 of the chocolate, product itself, it could be enough to 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.480 cause that to flare up. So thinking about our dogs 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.320 that are more sensitive to pincreatitis, So the miniature Schnauzers 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:23.159 and Yorky's some of those breeds, that may be something 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.520 we have to be even more concerned about, even if 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.640 they didn't get into enough to cause a toxic concern. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.640 Oh wait, it's also the fat content. 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.680 Yeah, sure can be. So it depends on the amount 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.600 that they get into. Dogs can tolerate a hershey kiss, 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.560 but who wants to stop it just one? And so 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.040 it's you know, when they get into that large handful 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.240 or the bag, that can definitely be more problematic and 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:47.320 cause that flare up. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.360 Now would you see that immediately or is that more 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:50.839 of a long term concern. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.400 So stomach sign so vomiting and diarrhea and loose stool, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.479 that's something that we can see within a few hours, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.040 the true and a development of pancreatitis might actually be 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.800 seen maybe later on twelve to twenty four hours or 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.080 even a day or so later. 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:11.000 That's right. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.640 Eating chocolate can be serious for dogs. It can cause 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.000 heart problems, high blood pressure, it can affect the nervous 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.200 system and even cause seizures. According to the Cornell College 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.559 of Veterinary Medicine, drinking as little as half a cup 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.760 of chocolate milk can be deadly for an average chihuahua, 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.080 But according to doctor Schmid, not every call they get 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:38.200 is life threatening. You said it's your number one call. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.640 I guess how would you break down those calls? Are 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.440 most of them pretty serious? Are some of them like, oh, 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.040 they ate a kiss or a small bar and they're 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:47.920 probably okay? How would you break that down? 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.400 That's a great question, And I would say that it's 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:58.080 really fairly evenly spread out to being not really an issue. Fortunately, 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.280 so many pet parents understand that chocolate is concerning to 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.440 their pet and they shouldn't get into it. So I 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.679 would say that it's a really pretty fairly evenly spread 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.560 between a mild or low concern. Maybe they just ingested 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.880 one chocolate chip cookie, and it's a labrador, it's a large, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.520 free dog, and so probably not going to be a 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.440 big issue. But then we get this past Halloween, we 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.760 had a dog that ingested over six and a half 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.920 pounds of chocolate in one setting. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.960 Oh my goodness, how did that dog get into six 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.920 pounds of chocolate? Was it they just had a chocolate factory, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.080 or they had. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.640 Their Halloween A family had their Halloween candy out because 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.880 it was Halloween Day or the day before, and it 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.600 was in an area that the dog was able to 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.440 get to and the owners weren't home at the time, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.319 and he helped himself. 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.280 Well, it just opened up all the wrappers and everything. 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.199 He ingested a lot of the rappers. A lot of 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.280 the rappers were ingested and chewed him and kind of 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:58.040 broke them open. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:03.840 And yeah, oh my goodness, yep, dogs love chocolate. Don't 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.120 even eat the wrappers, all right. This made me curious 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.040 if doctor Schmid ever gets calls about other animals getting 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.800 poisoned by chocolate. You mentioned other animals. Do you get 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.959 calls about other animals like cats? And what are some 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.040 unusual animals that you've had calls about chocolate? 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:22.640 So we do. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.360 We get calls on every species, and the vast majority 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.840 of the calls we receive are going to be dogs 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.760 and then cats, And it makes sense because they're around 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.160 humans more. They just have more access to the things 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.160 in the household. We certainly get calls from chocolate on 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.480 other species of animals to you know, usually something like 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.280 a rabbit or a ferret, or maybe a chinchilla. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.320 That's incredible. It's a little bit ironic that you would 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.240 have a bunny getting poison patrol call about chocolate. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.360 Yeah right, Hopefully that rabbit didn't eat any of the 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:57.640 chocolate bunny at easter. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.480 So chocolate effect other animals too, including cats and rabbits. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.960 And if you search the scientific literature, you'll find reports 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.880 of chocolate poisoning in cows, bears, and even coyotes. So 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.040 what's going on here? What is it about chocolate that 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:20.120 makes it so harmful to so many animals except apparently humans. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.120 When we come back, we'll talk to another expert on 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.920 what it means for something to be toxic and how 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.240 that affects what your pet can eat. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:41.560 Stay with us, we'll be right back. Welcome back. Okay. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.720 We learned that dogs definitely like chocolate, but that it's 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.760 not good for them. We also learned that it's not 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.959 good for other animals like cats and rabbits and even bears, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.640 and yet people seem to be fine with it. In fact, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.520 some of us eat it a lot. So what's going on? 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:00.800 To answer this? 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.960 I reached out to doctor Bob Poppingaate, a professor of 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:08.000 veterinary toxicology at the University of California at Davis who 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.720 runs the toxicology lab at the California Animal Health and 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.160 Food Safety Laboratory. He was just a few days from retiring, 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.120 but he took the time to talk to me. So 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.600 here's my conversation with doctor Bob Poppingate. Well, thank you 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.040 doctor popping Gate for joining us. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:24.199 Pleasure to be here. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.839 So today we're trying to answer the question of why 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.360 dogs can't eat chocolate, and I thought maybe we would 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.200 start by taking a step back, giving people a general 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.040 idea of what it means for something to be toxic 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:39.640 to an animal or to us. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.680 Well, pretty much anything is toxic. Key is how much 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.320 is actually ingested. One of the tenants is that dose 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.600 makes the poison, So it's all about the inherent toxicity 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.440 of a compound, and also how much is actually ingested 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.840 by a dog or a person or a child, whatever. 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.080 Some things are more toxic inherently. If you ingest enough water, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:03.120 that can be toxic. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.800 Okay, According to doctor Popingay, there are two variables here, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.600 how inherently toxic something is, In other words, how bad 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.320 it is for you and how much of it you eat. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.000 For example, cyanide is bad for you even if you 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.920 only eat a little of it, But water, which is 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.800 normally good for you, can also be deadly if you 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.320 drink enough of it. Here's how doctor Popingay explains it. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.319 What do you mean by everything can be toxic? 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.520 Well, it gets back to the inherent toxicity of a compound. So, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.520 you know, there are certain vitamins that are required. We 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.280 ingest a certain amount of vitamin E or vitamin D 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.480 per day, but in excessive doses of vitamin E can 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.559 cause adverse effects. So it just depends on the individual compound. 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.760 But in sufficient doses, anything can be toxic to our bodies. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.800 Now, what makes something more inherently toxic than others? 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.320 You know, it gets back to sort of the unique 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.119 characteristic of a compound and our ability to handle that compound. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.200 These things do they generally interfere with how the body works. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.439 Are these things burning a hole in my stomach or well. 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.160 There's a lot of different ways that a given chemical 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.920 can cause toxicity or adverse effects. You know, it can 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:23.320 affect our enzyme systems, it can affect neurotransmission, the neurotransmitters 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.000 that are released by our nervous system. It can block 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.760 certain body signals. It can damage cell membranes through what's 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.520 called oxidative damage, some things like corrosives. It's going to 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.080 cause damage to the mucosa, the upper gi track. So 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.400 a lot of different ways that chemicals can cause adverse effects. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.320 Well, it seems that almost America, we can eat anything, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.520 all right, So something can be toxic for lots of reasons. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.040 There are almost endless ways in which chemicals can mess 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.400 with the signals in our bodies or directly damaged cells 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.160 or membranes. So now the question is what makes chocolate. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.120 So then specifically for dogs, how bad is chocolate for dogs? 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.040 Well, that is very common intoxication in dogs. It's one 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.440 of the top things that veterians have to deal with. 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.200 But dogs can tolerate a certain amount of chocolate. The 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.560 chemicals in chocolate that cause problems, they're related and they're 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:24.040 called methyl xanthines. One is called theobromine, the other's caffeine. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.800 So people are probably more familiar with caffeine, which is 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.920 also in chocolate, so we have both. People are less 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.240 familiar with the theobromine, which is related to caffeine has 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.240 the same effects, but the theobromine is at higher concentrations 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.320 in chocolate products. Those are the two compounds that cause problems. 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.920 Okay, this is kind of a key point. The ban 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:50.000 chemicals that make chocolate bad for dogs are caffeine and theobromine, 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.040 which is basically another form of caffeine. It's not some 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.160 exotic toxin or chemical. It's basically what we all drink 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.880 every day when we drink coffee or tea. Now does 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.320 caffeine or theobamine have some kind of special effect on 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.880 dogs that they don't have on us? Not really, Okay, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.800 So then what do these compounds do to the dog. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.960 Let's say a dog eats a bunch of the baking 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.120 chocolate or stip some coffee. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.480 What is it going to do to their. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:23.360 Body once it's absorbed. The theobromine caffeine effect the cardiovascular 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.560 system and the nervous system. So you know, if you 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.040 drink three or four cups of coffee in the morning, 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.760 you get a little bit nervous, your heart rate can 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.400 go up. These compounds are also diuretics, so you increase 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.200 your own production. That's why you have to go to 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.880 the bathroom after a few cups of coffee. But the 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.800 primary adverse effect is on the nervous system and our hearts. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.040 So the heart rate goes up, you get a little 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.479 bit excited. With a really large dose, you could have seizures. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.080 The most serious consequence is cardiac a arrhythmius, so your 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.440 heart rate changes. Of the dogs, the dogs are people 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.400 or any other species or animal that get into a 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:01.640 sufficient amount. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.560 Like the same effect caffeine has in us it's having 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:09.000 on the dog. In other words, caffeine and theobromine have 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.680 the same effect on us as they do on dogs. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.000 These chemicals are as toxic to them as they are 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.400 to us. But we drink coffee and eat chocolate all 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.760 the time. So how does that make sense. Well, the 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.080 answer is that while humans and dogs react to caffeine 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.400 and theobromine in the same way, there are differences that 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.800 affect our exposure to them. The first one is that 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.360 dogs are smaller than us. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.360 Well, it gets back to how much the dog actually 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.760 ingest on a body weight basis, So we could be 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.040 intoxicated by these products as well if we ate enough 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.480 of them. These compounds can't be toxic to us, So 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.760 if a child got into baking chocolate and ingested half 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.480 a package, you might have a very sick child. 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.000 Yeah, so most dogs are smaller than us. For example, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.560 a tiny shoe walla weighs about four pounds, so a 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.760 cup of chocolate milk to them would be the equivalent 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.000 of an average American eating ninety spoonfuls of cocoa powder 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.800 in one city. If you did that, you'd be pretty 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.879 sick too. The second difference that affects how much chocolate 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.399 dogs eat if the dogs don't seem to have a 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.359 lot of self control. 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.120 The other thing about dogs, why it's a problem. If 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.520 you have a dog, you know, they're very indiscriminate eaters. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.800 They eat things and then ask questions later. If it's edible, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.879 it's going to be very attractive for a dog. So 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.160 if they have access to a pan of brownies, they're 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.359 not going to stop with one brownie. You know, they're 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.720 going to clean up the entire pan of brownies. So 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.040 cats are about as sensitive to the chemicals and chocolate 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.480 as dogs are. But cats are not going to sit 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.280 there and eat a whole package of baking chocolate. Dogs 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.080 if they have access to something, they don't have any 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.800 self control, so they will eat everything there that's in 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.639 the package, whereas a person. You know, baking chocolate is 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.400 fairly bitter, so maybe a child might taste a little 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.160 bit of it, but they're not going to sit there 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:06.680 and eat the whole package. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:07.199 I don't know. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.879 I know there's some chocoholics who might dig into that 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:16.200 whole bag, right right, Okay. The last difference between people 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.359 and dogs is the dogs don't metabolize theobromine as well 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.679 as humans. Here's how doctor Schmid explains it. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.200 Yeah, so in toxicology, we talked about a half life, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.199 and the half life is the length of time it 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:37.840 takes the body to rid itself of half of the 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.520 amounts of that toxic component or what substance or drug 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.960 or what have you. And so the half life, the 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:50.400 amount of time it takes for dogs, in particular, to 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.959 rid the body of the theobromine, is much longer. In dogs, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.680 it's about seventeen and a half hours, whereas in humans 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.439 it's just a few hours. And that definitely contributes to 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.800 the toxic effects that we see in dogs, and it 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.600 also contributes to the length of time that we see 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.600 or the duration of time that we see those effects. 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.720 So there is a difference between dog and human biology. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.720 In terms of chocolate, the abromine and caffeine have the 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.200 same effect on us, but it takes longer for dogs 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.480 to break down those chemicals, so the effects last longer. Now, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.359 most articles you read online will tell you this is 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.000 the main reason dogs can't eat chocolate, but actually both 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.240 experts agree that much bigger factors are a that dogs 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.600 are smaller and b that they can't stop themselves and 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.000 will eat huge amounts of chocolate if they have access 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.639 to it. Okay, the last question I asked doctor Poppingay 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:55.720 was now, why can't dogs metabolize these compounds as well 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.080 as humans? What's the difference? 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.000 They have different enzymes in their liver that break down compounds. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.960 Every species says a little bit different. A good example 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.080 of a species difference is cats. You should never give 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.760 a set of metaphen or tilen all to a cat 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:14.119 because they can't metabolize the compound like we can or 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.959 dogs can. So cats are very sensitive to the adverse 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.600 effects of a set of menifin. 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:19.920 I see, so it's genetic. 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.120 It's genetic in the sense that it's a species difference. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.960 Why do you think there are these differences in species. 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.560 Ah, that's a good question. That's kind of a evolutionary question, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.520 and it probably goes back thousands, if not tens of 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:33.600 thousands of years. 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.080 Okay, when we come back, we'll actually try to answer 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.560 this question by going back in history with a dog 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:47.200 geneticis to where dogs came from. Don't go anywhere, we'll 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:48.280 be right back. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:59.840 And we're back. Okay. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.160 The last person I talked to was doctor Maya Arrand, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.320 a professor at the University of Copenhagen. Here's what she does. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.600 So my name is my aunt, and as well as 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.880 being a vet with a specialty and oncology, I'm also 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.720 a researcher in genetics and focus a lot on comparative genetics, 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.320 looking at genetics between humans and animals. And then I've 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.399 also worked a lot with dog evolutions, looking at bay 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.680 see how wolfs goot domesticated into dogs as we know 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:27.160 them today. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.280 Now, the reason I talked to doctor Arrand is that 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.320 I wanted to know why dogs can't process chocolate as 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.199 well as people can. And it turned out that doctor 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.240 Aaron can paint a pretty interesting picture of why dogs 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.879 might have ended up that way and spoiler alert, it 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:47.920 might all be our fault. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:48.399 Okay. 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.000 I started off by asking her to recap what we 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.840 know about where dogs come from. So can you give 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.479 us a brief history of dogs, like where did they 0:21:58.520 --> 0:21:59.000 come from? 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.640 So dogs really originated from the gray wolf and they 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.840 were domesticated, well, actually, no one really knows exactly, but 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.640 as early as forty thousand years ago. Some say, oh, 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.080 it's definitely just one event that happened twenty three thousand 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.720 years ago in Siberia, but there's also suggestions that dog 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:20.280 domestication has been happening several places around the world. Somewhere 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.359 along the time, there's been some wolves that were maybe 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.240 less fearful of humans and have sort of been more curious, 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:28.240 and those are the ones that have sort of been 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.199 closer around humans. There's also a theory that they have 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.200 maybe been interested in scavenging, so scavenging around the places 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.560 where humans have lived, and these factors sort of led 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.320