Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. This is
Speaker 1: another installment of our weekly roundup where we dig into
Speaker 1: stories that you might have missed on the Internet so
Speaker 1: you don't have to. And I am so thrilled to
Speaker 1: welcome my guest co host for our conversation today, Francesca Fiorantini,
Speaker 1: journalist and host of The Bituation Room. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here.
Speaker 2: He thanks for having me Bridge. It's so good to
Speaker 2: be back in a different era, but really the same era,
Speaker 2: a continuation of the awfulness. I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 2: We need more shows like yours.
Speaker 1: We need more voices like yours. I'm happy to see
Speaker 1: you everywhere. The Bituation Room is fantastic. Also, you've got
Speaker 1: a live show coming up suit.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, yes, yes, if you're hearing this next Friday
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, or and you are in Los ange
Speaker 2: Angelus or want to get to Los Angeles, yeah, Friday
Speaker 2: at the Allegian Theater, May thirtieth. We're gonna fix La
Speaker 2: Bridget La post fires, pre Olympics. It's it's increasingly unlivable here.
Speaker 2: But council member Unisses Hernandez, John Iderol of the Damage Report,
Speaker 2: someone from the Rent Brigade, which has been blowing the
Speaker 2: whistle on all the price gouging that realtors have been doing.
Speaker 2: And Rachel Reyis of the LA podcast, which is an
Speaker 2: excellent podcast if people don't if people want some local
Speaker 2: politics podcasts. But yeah, it'll be good. It'll be good.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I gotta laugh to keep from crying when you're
Speaker 1: tuning into our political landscape these days. Indeed, So with that,
Speaker 1: are you ready to talk about some stories that are
Speaker 1: happening across the internet.
Speaker 2: So ready?
Speaker 1: Okay, So the first one is not even really a story.
Speaker 1: It's more just I want people's takes. This was blowing
Speaker 1: up in my kind of podcast or group chat. So
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'll bring it to
Speaker 1: the podcast. Are you familiar with the podcaster theo On? Yes,
Speaker 1: So for folks who don't know, Theovon is a super
Speaker 1: popular podcaster. He rose to fame on MTV's road Rules
Speaker 1: and like competition shows like The Challenge, he hosts a
Speaker 1: super popular podcast, a podcast that like, I gotta have
Speaker 1: a million podcasts in my life and it will not
Speaker 1: equals as popular as his show is. I would say
Speaker 1: that I personally believe that he is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why Trump was reelected. Trump kind of agrees with me,
Speaker 1: Like he shouted out theovon from his victory stage and
Speaker 1: like thanked him by name. He is like a pretty
Speaker 1: vocal supporter of Trump. He's had him on the podcast
Speaker 1: and everything.
Speaker 2: But was he at the inauguration? Bridget He was?
Speaker 1: He was, Oh, And what's funny is that he kind
Speaker 1: of is doing like a if you if you watch
Speaker 1: that show the Royal Gemstones. He kind of favors Keith,
Speaker 1: Like he wears like a mullet, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: the So like seeing him at the inauguration was like, huh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting.
Speaker 2: But Keith Keith is a good person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Keith's He's a good guy. I don't know that
Speaker 1: I would qualify theopha. Well, that's sort of the question
Speaker 1: that I'm bringing to the podcast. On his podcast this week,
Speaker 1: he was talking about Gaza. Here's what he said on
Speaker 1: the podcast. Quick heads up though that we did edit
Speaker 1: this clip for length.
Speaker 3: You know, I wanted to say something. There's been something
Speaker 3: that's just been kind of on my heart, and so
Speaker 3: I feel like I should bring it up. There is
Speaker 3: you know, we've had people on the podcast in the
Speaker 3: past to talk about it, and there's just a there's
Speaker 3: a conflict that's been happening in the Middle East. People
Speaker 3: know about it between Israel and Palestine and some of
Speaker 3: the areas over there, the Gaza area they talk about,
Speaker 3: and uh, and I just think it's it feels to me,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I it just it feels to
Speaker 3: me like it's a genocide that's happening while we're alive
Speaker 3: here in front of us, are in front of our lives,
Speaker 3: and I don't Sometimes I feel like I should say something.
Speaker 3: I'm not a geologist or geographer or anything like that,
Speaker 3: you know, so I don't know a lot of the
Speaker 3: Some of it. I do know, though, like I know
Speaker 3: the basics of the issues over there. But for me,
Speaker 3: it's just like how I feel like you see all
Speaker 3: these photos of people, just children, women, people, body parts,
Speaker 3: just people like putting their kids back together, and I
Speaker 3: just can't believe that we're watching that and that more
Speaker 3: isn't said about it. You notice, like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: So I'll stop it there when I saw when I
Speaker 1: saw this, my friends, my like podcaster friends know that
Speaker 1: I deeply dislike this person. I deeply dislike the avonn
Speaker 1: And people were dropping this clip in the group chat,
Speaker 1: being like, oh, it's so good that he said something.
Speaker 1: You know, this clip got twenty million views, so they
Speaker 1: say on X, And I guess for me, I fully
Speaker 1: don't know what to do with this because, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, I obviously support anybody who's using a platform
Speaker 1: to speak out against genocide, but this guy is like
Speaker 1: all in for Trump, very vocally, and so I have
Speaker 1: a hard time kind of understanding how somebody can make
Speaker 1: a statement like this and seemingly not have the tiniest
Speaker 1: bit of like self reflection on their part of it.
Speaker 1: And so this rapper, Zach Fox, wasn't having it. He said,
Speaker 1: don't let Theovon fool you. He'd be blowing a hookah
Speaker 1: smoke and doing key bumps with Trump, his family and
Speaker 1: the literal architects of the genocidees fate crying about. Then
Speaker 1: he posted a picture of Theovon with Avanka Trump and
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner partying in Miami from Levanka's Instagram just a
Speaker 1: few days ago and said what do you mean what
Speaker 1: we are doing? Ask them, which I have to admit
Speaker 1: is like a pretty funny burn.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But and like literally a few days before recording this,
Speaker 1: THEO was with Trump doing an opening set at a
Speaker 1: military base in Qatar, and so like this actually turned
Speaker 1: into a bit of an argument because I, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, totally understand how some of my podcast my
Speaker 1: like leftist podcaster or friends were like, anybody who's using
Speaker 1: their platform to speak up is doing a good thing.
Speaker 1: If twenty million people are getting eyeballs on this and
Speaker 1: he's making a different subset of the population think about this,
Speaker 1: that is a good thing. I can understand that point
Speaker 1: of view, but I just don't buy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I love the receipts
Speaker 2: that were brought against him by that rapper, Like I
Speaker 2: love and you're like, oh, I'm waiting for this to
Speaker 2: be really old. No, no, no, it's it's from like a
Speaker 2: week ago him sitting down with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump.
Speaker 2: I mean Jared Kushner, who spearheaded in part the Abraham Accords,
Speaker 2: which effectively completely cut out the existence of Palestinians from
Speaker 2: any kind of peace process in the Middle East, which
Speaker 2: is kind of it's actually just a oxymoron to even
Speaker 2: say what I just said, because there can be no
Speaker 2: peace without you know, Palestinians involved, and so that I
Speaker 2: think was really important. And also Jared Kushner stands to
Speaker 2: gain should Trump's ethnic cleansing of Gaza succeed and the
Speaker 2: Trump of you know, the riviera of the Middle East
Speaker 2: comes to pass. That's Jared Kushner has openly said, this
Speaker 2: is beach from property. I mean, this is truly on
Speaker 2: the bones of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Again, official
Speaker 2: death tolls stopped back when you know there was any
Speaker 2: kind of infrastructure to account for all the dead.
Speaker 5: But I really I hate to come on this show
Speaker 5: and be like I really agree with the host because
Speaker 5: I want to make it spicy and interesting. To Bridget,
Speaker 5: I super agree with you, Like I really come down
Speaker 5: on like very very similar to you on all of this.
Speaker 2: And I will say two things about it. Like, I
Speaker 2: do think that the issue of Palestine is and the
Speaker 2: issue of Gaza and the genocide that's happening is so bipartisan,
Speaker 2: it's so blanket it's almost cultural in terms of how
Speaker 2: much people are against this and in ways that I
Speaker 2: think really supersede any party loyalty or any right left situation.
Speaker 2: So I think that just has to be named that,
Speaker 2: Like people who are against genocide are also people who
Speaker 2: are like I don't know, I don't vote who what
Speaker 2: is a congress?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: There are people who are just like you know, there's
Speaker 2: nothing to do with party, And clearly from Theovonne, dumbass
Speaker 2: talking his way through that, like I'm not a geologist, Like, bro,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? You're like stalagtites here, like
Speaker 2: what do we like? Geology? I mean a geographer. None,
Speaker 2: neither of those things actually relevant to this issue. I'm
Speaker 2: not a geologist or a geographer. And then you know,
Speaker 2: saying what he said. So I feel like it's like,
Speaker 2: it's both it's good that he said this to his
Speaker 2: massive audience, but you're absolutely right if you have I
Speaker 2: have an audience with Donald fucking Trump, which he does
Speaker 2: say something to his ass, say something to that instead,
Speaker 2: it kind of feels like I feel like he probably
Speaker 2: got he's got comments on it, people talking about it
Speaker 2: around him. He just wanted to address it, and then
Speaker 2: he can kind of go on about his way and
Speaker 2: not do anything activate his community, talk about how Trump
Speaker 2: is making it worse, talk about all of the genocidal
Speaker 2: things that the removal of Palestinians to what Libya is,
Speaker 2: the new proposal receiving a fucking four hundred million dollar
Speaker 2: jet that now we know Trump's solicited from Cutter and
Speaker 2: you know, just like just to have. Yeah, it's pretty sickening.
Speaker 2: And so no, I don't, you know, I have to
Speaker 2: come back to the like it's not for us, Bridget
Speaker 2: Like there's a little bit of a like it's not
Speaker 2: for us. And so hopefully people who don't listen to
Speaker 2: Theovonne listen to our shows, listen to you, listen to
Speaker 2: this podcast and are like, we don't got to go
Speaker 2: to war against these people. But I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: take time out of my day to like, you know,
Speaker 2: give them a bunch of flowers when they're very much
Speaker 2: in bed with just fascists at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel very similarly to you. So like my
Speaker 1: this is like my Roman Empire. I think I think
Speaker 1: a lot of these like bro podcasters, but THEO in particular,
Speaker 1: I think they are playing a character. I think that
Speaker 1: he plays this kind of like uh, Chuck Stoner everyman, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not a geologist or nothing, but this seems bad.
Speaker 1: I don't think that he's a stupid person or an
Speaker 1: uninformed person. I think that he's making a ton of
Speaker 1: money from his association with the Trumps, with the Kushners.
Speaker 1: I think he is seeing that, like the situation in
Speaker 1: Gaza is a genocide and is quite bad, and as
Speaker 1: you said, it's like not a left right issue, it's
Speaker 1: like a right wrong Like I can see with what's happening,
Speaker 1: and I can see that it's very bad and very wrong.
Speaker 1: I think that he's like, oh, shoot, I need to
Speaker 1: speak to this, but I want to do it in
Speaker 1: a way where I don't have to. I can still
Speaker 1: sort of enable it. I can still sort of make
Speaker 1: money from my participation with the people who are architecting it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to, you know, I want
Speaker 1: to get to perform sadness about it while also continuing
Speaker 1: to basically say nothing about it. And so yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I it's hard for me to. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm cynical. It's hard for me to take this
Speaker 1: as a win when it's like, yeah, what do you
Speaker 1: mean what we are doing? You have audience with the
Speaker 1: people who are doing this. Talk to them, don't talk
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, you know, I have a lot of
Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts. And I was like,
Speaker 2: uh when we started the show, I was like, I
Speaker 2: gotta leave soon. But then now I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: an issue that I really really want to talk a
Speaker 2: lot about. It's interesting, it's ironic. Trump also said this
Speaker 2: same line. He's sitting in front of Netanyahu in the
Speaker 2: Oval office, going it's terrible all the killing that's happening there.
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh my god, buddy right next to
Speaker 2: you as the guy who's doing it. And of course
Speaker 2: he knows right. But it's much easier to sort of
Speaker 2: New York Times headline this whole thing like Palestinians died
Speaker 2: on their own. There is no culprit like and then
Speaker 2: you cover your ass because you said something, and then
Speaker 2: you get to move on and you don't have to
Speaker 2: actually talk about who is doing the thing, but the
Speaker 2: other thing that happens here. And this is what I
Speaker 2: think the podcast bros. Because when you said podcast pros,
Speaker 2: it reminded me of another interview this week that Bernie
Speaker 2: Sanders did with Andrew Schultz on the Flagrant podcast, in
Speaker 2: which Schultz tries to say they call us podcast bros.
Speaker 2: The way they called your supporters Bernie bros. We're the same.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, no, no, you're not. And
Speaker 2: I was very disappointed on you know, as someone who
Speaker 2: likes Bernie Sanders, super disappointed by his performance there. I
Speaker 2: did a whole breakdown on my show about it, if
Speaker 2: you want, Like, way too many thoughts of mine. However,
Speaker 2: what's crazy about like the right wing podcast Comedian Rise,
Speaker 2: which I think you're totally right, there is a care
Speaker 2: there that they are all playing and they're doing it
Speaker 2: for money, you know, Like, but I was having this
Speaker 2: conversation this is what is crazy for me, Like every
Speaker 2: time you ask a liberal excuse me, a liberal comedian
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, a podcast or whatever, John Oliver, John Stewart,
Speaker 2: Bill Burr to name three of them, and you say, hey,
Speaker 2: you seem to have like lots of thoughts about the
Speaker 2: world and you know everything that's happening, and you know,
Speaker 2: do you feel like your role is almost larger than
Speaker 2: just a comic. It's like you're having you know, an impact.
Speaker 2: They all go like no, no, no, no, no, don't listen
Speaker 2: to me. I'm just a comedian. I shouldn't be the
Speaker 2: person leading this conversation. What do you want to talk
Speaker 2: to me for? And I do agree with that in
Speaker 2: a way, because what happens when we deify comedians as
Speaker 2: sort of thought leaders is your theo von Andrew Schultz's,
Speaker 2: and those two guys have no problem saying, Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: I am an intellection, a leader. I do speak to like,
Speaker 2: you know, the voice, the voice of the voice, the
Speaker 2: voice of the canceled, you know, white male, like that
Speaker 2: is who I'm speaking for. And so you have this
Speaker 2: moment where it's like, oh, the right is fully embracing
Speaker 2: the line between comic and political and politics and the
Speaker 2: so called left and really left, but the liberals are
Speaker 2: completely abdicating it, almost out of responsibility, but also leaving
Speaker 2: this huge gulf where maybe we should be feeling. I
Speaker 2: don't know what your thoughts are on that.
Speaker 1: That's such I had never put that together, but that's
Speaker 1: such a good point, and it's very frustrating to watch
Speaker 1: because then the voices who get to be amplified and
Speaker 1: grow are the ones who are spouting nonsense and also
Speaker 1: spouting nonsense in a way where it's like that you
Speaker 1: can you They like they want to be intellectuals with it.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's the thing that gets me is listen,
Speaker 1: nobody appreciate the hustle and a grif more than I do,
Speaker 1: Like get your money, do what you gotta do. But
Speaker 1: they're like, don't, don't pull us into it and make
Speaker 1: it be like, oh yeah, I'm an intellexual for thinking this.
Speaker 1: If you want opinions on you know, trans identity, I'm
Speaker 1: your guy, me the comedian. It's like, no, what what
Speaker 1: are we doing?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: And I think it's also the death of the expert.
Speaker 2: I mean, we the Internet as a show that talks
Speaker 2: about it. You know, the Internet in its most beautiful
Speaker 2: periods and in iterations is like Okay, you're listening to
Speaker 2: or seeing someone who you feel speaks in plain language,
Speaker 2: is again personable and isn't necessarily an expert, but giving
Speaker 2: you kind of their gut, you know, reaction, which can
Speaker 2: be good or bad. But then we get into a
Speaker 2: lot of trouble when it's like, yeah, we're gonna listen
Speaker 2: to non trans people talk about trans stuff. We're gonna
Speaker 2: listen to non black people talk about, you know, issues
Speaker 2: that affect black community. We're gonna like like all that
Speaker 2: and you're just like no, no, no, no, Well now now
Speaker 2: you're literally elevating. And again this is not to say
Speaker 2: that identity gives you that edge, but we're not going
Speaker 2: to listen to I don't know a fucking you know,
Speaker 2: like ethnic studies scholar whose department is being obliterated through
Speaker 2: different Trump executive orders, like those are the experts that
Speaker 2: we should be listening to. Instead. It's like the worst
Speaker 2: of the Internet is just listening to dumb asses talk
Speaker 2: about things they just learned about.
Speaker 4: Ough you put that perfectly. Let's hit a quick break
Speaker 4: at our back.
Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of dumb asses, we have to talk about
Speaker 1: this legislation, the Big Beautiful Bill. I know you've been
Speaker 1: thinking about it and talking about it. Something that I
Speaker 1: don't feel like is getting enough shine is the fact
Speaker 1: that this big Beautiful Agenda Bill has a rule baked
Speaker 1: into it that passed would prohibit states from enforcing any
Speaker 1: law or regulation regulating AI for ten years. I mean,
Speaker 1: that does not seem like a good thing to me.
Speaker 1: The advocacy organization Demand Progress organized a bunch of academic
Speaker 1: and like civil society organizations one hundred and forty one
Speaker 1: of them to sign a letter, including organizations like the
Speaker 1: Georgetown Laws Center on Privacy and Technology, the Southern Poverty
Speaker 1: Law Center, and employee coalitions like Amazon Employees for Climate Justice,
Speaker 1: basically being like, this is bad. The letter reads, this
Speaker 1: moratorium would mean that even if a company deliberately designs
Speaker 1: an algorithm that causes foreseeable harm, regardless of how intentional
Speaker 1: or egregious the misconduct or how devastating the consequences, the
Speaker 1: company making or using that bad tech, would be unaccountable
Speaker 1: to lawmakers and the public.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's beyond AI right, because you know, every
Speaker 2: day we're finding out about some new shit that Meta
Speaker 2: did deliberately. What was it targeting young girls who I forgot.
Speaker 1: What the story was. It was girls who who took
Speaker 1: a selfie of themselves and then deleted it because they
Speaker 1: were unhappy with it. They have technology that it's like,
Speaker 1: oh self esteem issues, huh, let's get them, and then
Speaker 1: they will go, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: And then market them with whatever totally totally creams. And yeah,
Speaker 2: there was like some other study that was like, you know,
Speaker 2: like children are using like anti aging cream, Like oh
Speaker 2: my god, yeah, man, this is so bald. Faced like
Speaker 2: it is so clear what they're trying to do. And
Speaker 2: this is when kind of like the the tech oligarchy
Speaker 2: really is showing its whole ass, like this is like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is what you wanted. Trump is enacting it, and
Speaker 2: the Republicans are enacting it for you. A ten year moratorium.
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, we believe in states rights
Speaker 2: when it comes to what you want to do with
Speaker 2: your own body, but we don't believe in states rights
Speaker 2: and literally anything else on anything. We want to run Roughshotover.
Speaker 2: You have a sanctuary city, you know, we want to
Speaker 2: sweep up anybody in your sanctuary city. There's no protections
Speaker 2: from ice. And same with this AI stuff, which you know,
Speaker 2: being in California where Gavin Newsom has been very kind
Speaker 2: of like flirty with AI, like oh, we you know
Speaker 2: it can maybe it can be good and we have
Speaker 2: to study it and blow it's like you think those
Speaker 2: studies have happened in like kept pace with the rollout
Speaker 2: of AI.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: No, but it's almost like this is a perfect little
Speaker 2: cover to be like, well, what can we do. We
Speaker 2: can't regulate against this industry. Guess I must cash in
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what's going on, and there are some
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad that you use that example of
Speaker 1: in California, because like, there are so many ways that
Speaker 1: AI can be used to make our lives harder as people,
Speaker 1: and we already we already know that AI can be
Speaker 1: used to discriminate. So like Colorado pass the law of
Speaker 1: requiring tech companies to protect consumers from the risk of
Speaker 1: algorithm discrimination, and so like, if if a is making
Speaker 1: the decision of employment, they have to inform you that
Speaker 1: that has happened, and they have to inform you that
Speaker 1: you're interacting with an AI system that we know can
Speaker 1: discriminate against you. Where I live in DC, there was
Speaker 1: a whole study about the use of AI algorithmic rent
Speaker 1: pricing tools, and so like, if your landlord senses that
Speaker 1: you're desperate for a place to live and that you'll
Speaker 1: pay doubles for that apartment, they can use AI to
Speaker 1: do that. Wouldn't it be great if there was state
Speaker 1: based legislation to be like, actually, you can't do that,
Speaker 1: Like the this is legislation that actually has real impact
Speaker 1: in people's lives, and so having a ten year moratorium
Speaker 1: on it, I think is really bad. And as you said,
Speaker 1: like what happened the state's rights?
Speaker 2: What's going to be left in ten years? Like I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: like thinking about ten years down the road. I mean,
Speaker 2: we are going to reach a breaking point very much
Speaker 2: earlier than ten years. But like AI has already taken
Speaker 2: so many jobs. AI is already threatening I mean the
Speaker 2: health sector, to say nothing of what we do, content creation,
Speaker 2: hoovering up all of our voices are are I mean
Speaker 2: you already someone signs away if they post on social media,
Speaker 2: you know, any copyright to that content there, It's like
Speaker 2: what is what is there left? And these are all
Speaker 2: systems that are being trained on our labor. I mean,
Speaker 2: it is a massive labor issue while it's simultaneously under
Speaker 2: minds labor. So yeah, it's it's terrifying. But also isn't
Speaker 2: Grok amazing? I mean, the way that Grook knows about
Speaker 2: white genocide, it's just fantastic.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you could not have set me up
Speaker 1: better for something I want to talk about in a minute.
Speaker 1: But speaking of taking people's jobs, it's coming for the
Speaker 1: jobs of women. Traditionally work done by women, we are
Speaker 1: more vulnerable to AI taking our jobs and work done
Speaker 1: by men. This is according to a new report from
Speaker 1: the United Nations International Labor Organization. So this report says
Speaker 1: that nine point six percent of traditionally female jobs were
Speaker 1: set to be transformed by AI, compared to only three
Speaker 1: point five percent of jobs typically carried out by men.
Speaker 1: And so, to be clear, the report stressed that human
Speaker 1: involvement is still needed when talking about jobs and displacement.
Speaker 1: They say. We stressed that such exposure does not imply
Speaker 1: the immediate automation entire of an entire occupation, but rather
Speaker 1: the potential for a large share of its current task
Speaker 1: to be performed using this technology. And so, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it really reminds me of what the CEO of that
Speaker 1: app Duo Lingo said, where he was like, oh, in
Speaker 1: the future, we won't even need teachers. AI is going
Speaker 1: to be better at teaching everybody than any human could be.
Speaker 1: By the way, we have no evidence of that being true.
Speaker 1: And he went on to say, in the future, don't worry,
Speaker 1: we're still going to need teachers because somebody is going
Speaker 1: to have to provide childcare. And as a former educator,
Speaker 1: I was really like that that comment hits a lot
Speaker 1: of my like, oh yeah, trigger.
Speaker 2: They called you a childcare provider.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So for folks who don't know the first
Speaker 1: iteration of my career, I was an educator. I spent
Speaker 1: most of it in a classroom. And I think the
Speaker 1: idea of deprofessionalizing and devaluing education, especially education being like
Speaker 1: a field that is predominantly a field that women have
Speaker 1: a lot of, like we're overrepresented in that field. It
Speaker 1: really I just been deeply offended by this, Like I'm
Speaker 1: offended by the idea that like, oh, AI will be
Speaker 1: teaching young people in the future and human educators, people
Speaker 1: who went to school, went to college, got degrees, They'll
Speaker 1: be essentially like babysitters, gig work style babysitters. And that's
Speaker 1: the future that we'll have.
Speaker 2: Right, And the reality is none of it is supported
Speaker 2: by any research, any science, any data, any first hand account.
Speaker 2: It is just we can make a book, we want
Speaker 2: to make money. And there's one aspect we haven't completely
Speaker 2: privatized yet, and that is public education. We're going to
Speaker 2: destroy it however possible, and AI is one of the ways.
Speaker 2: I also think, like super remote learning. Despite what the
Speaker 2: right said during COVID, which was like, you know, the
Speaker 2: kids and their mental health and no, no, no, no bullshit
Speaker 2: because Betsy Devas's family has been actively invested in moving
Speaker 2: learning online solely and again literally, my brother is a
Speaker 2: public school teacher in Oakland, and the pandemic was terrible.
Speaker 2: Kids did not learn more. Remote learning, you know, was
Speaker 2: really difficult. It was because we were trying to keep
Speaker 2: people safe. But that is no way to actually teach.
Speaker 2: And that's with him being an actual teacher, a real person.
Speaker 2: But the idea that we're going to just go to
Speaker 2: like online learning by done by AI, I mean, bridget
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter when all you want to do is
Speaker 2: sort of produce little worker bees who can you know,
Speaker 2: never fight for themselves or you know, keep people in
Speaker 2: sort of a constant like I don't know, third grade education.
Speaker 2: They get stuff their podcasts and whatnot, like no authoritarianism, fascism,
Speaker 2: There's no point in educating people in these systems.
Speaker 1: It really reminds me of this quote from Chris Gilliard
Speaker 1: who says every future imagined by a tech company is
Speaker 1: worse than it's a previous iteration, Like I believe that
Speaker 1: in my bones. And when I heard this guy talking
Speaker 1: about the future of education, I was like Damn that
Speaker 1: is bleak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they really like I think that AI
Speaker 2: and crypto are just I mean, when will the bubble burst?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm camp. I'm like, just burst already, God
Speaker 2: damn it. But it's got to destroy first and then
Speaker 2: maybe it will burst.
Speaker 1: Speaking of destroy, I have to talk to you about
Speaker 1: this piece about how Elon Musk's AI facility is it
Speaker 1: essentially just like polluting a black community. So Elon Musk
Speaker 1: he has this AI company called Xai. They built a
Speaker 1: massive supercomputer in Memphis, Tennessee. He's been championing it with
Speaker 1: all the sort of usual predictable fanfare, saying it's the
Speaker 1: most powerful AI trading system in the world. It's been
Speaker 1: really selling it locally to this community in Memphis, saying
Speaker 1: it's going to be a big source of jobs and money.
Speaker 1: But residents in nearby Boxtown, which is a majority black,
Speaker 1: economically disadvantaged community that has long endured industrial pollution, says
Speaker 1: that this facility is just another threat to their health.
Speaker 1: Now you probably know this. The secret of AI is
Speaker 1: that it's like very power hungry. So when you are
Speaker 1: asking groc about white genocide that is using like or
Speaker 1: like using AI to figure out what it would sound
Speaker 1: like if I don't know, bugs Bunny read the Declaration
Speaker 1: of Independence or whatever you're using it for. You're using
Speaker 1: a lot of power.
Speaker 2: Yes, and displacing a voice actor. Yeah, thank you, Yes,
Speaker 2: because I'm or really good impressionists. Because I'm sure a
Speaker 2: great impressionist could give you that rendition of bugs Buddy
Speaker 2: reading the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker 1: So Elon Musk Company has currently has no airs, appearing
Speaker 1: to rely on a loophole for temporary turbines, and so
Speaker 1: this facility is just like pumping out smog using gas
Speaker 1: powered turbines that are just like completely sickening this community
Speaker 1: and telling the people who live in this community, oh,
Speaker 1: this is this is gonna be good for you, like
Speaker 1: this is for your own good. One resident said, our
Speaker 1: health was never even considered. The safety of our community
Speaker 1: was never ever considered. She lives three miles from this
Speaker 1: facility and already suffers from a lung condition. And I'm
Speaker 1: sad to say this is like not anything new for
Speaker 1: this part of Memphis. It has seventeen other polluting facilities,
Speaker 1: including an oil refinery, a steel plant, gas fired power plant. However,
Speaker 1: none of those facilities are owned by Elon Musk, who
Speaker 1: was obviously like in the Trump administration, and an administration
Speaker 1: that we already talked about is like very invested in
Speaker 1: defanging any kind of AI regulation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what's really also disturbing about this is that,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, Memphis is already you know, an environment
Speaker 2: mentally uh like a toxic site because of corporate pollution,
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump is completely stripped any attention any funds,
Speaker 2: any you know, any projects that are focused on cleanup
Speaker 2: specifically because they mention things like environmental racism or disproportionately
Speaker 2: affect black and brown communities, and you know, and it's like,
Speaker 2: because they do that, it's like, well, how come we
Speaker 2: can't get our toxic sites clean up? It says, you
Speaker 2: don't fucking have them, Like you don't have them, my guy.
Speaker 2: And so your fragility because this mentions race again it's deliberate,
Speaker 2: is it will get people killed. And so this is
Speaker 2: why it matters to actually talk when you say environmental racism,
Speaker 2: that is not just an empty fucking buzzword. It is real.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't know that turbine, like I would
Speaker 2: very much like to see. I'm trying to look at
Speaker 2: the images, but like as someone who's only one time
Speaker 2: used AI when they were like, we're gonna make yourself
Speaker 2: look hot in different context. I remember that was like
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, but that's the only time, like
Speaker 2: hand to God, never asked, grog, never ask Although now
Speaker 2: if you Google's are something, you're sort of inherently forced
Speaker 2: to do AI because it will populate an AI answer
Speaker 2: for you. So there's no choice to be like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'd like to not pollute Memphis or wherever you know
Speaker 2: their data servers and centers are. But I do think
Speaker 2: we have like like where are the exposs on this?
Speaker 2: You know, I hope this is just the beginning of
Speaker 2: the reporting.
Speaker 1: Totally and to your point, like about what this looks like.
Speaker 1: So Representative Pearson, who is a lawmaker there, he said
Speaker 1: that it's pretty much what you're thinking. He said, it's
Speaker 1: an actual gas plant in the middle of a neighborhood.
Speaker 1: And you don't need any permitting to do this. Something
Speaker 1: that's fa drastically and significantly on our system of checks
Speaker 1: and balances, which like, yeah, that wouldn't be people who
Speaker 1: like complain about like well, what are they going to
Speaker 1: clean up our sites? That wouldn't be happening in a
Speaker 1: community that was not economically disadvantage in majority black like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this would not be happening in a wealthy,
Speaker 1: predominantly white community. That's why it's happening there.
Speaker 2: No, of course not.
Speaker 1: And so I have to give it up to some
Speaker 1: of the residents who were quoted in this CNN piece,
Speaker 1: because the residents of this area of Memphis have been
Speaker 1: fighting this kind of fight for a long time. They
Speaker 1: spoke to Kashan Pearson, a resident who said that they
Speaker 1: see their area as a quote sacrifice zone where companies
Speaker 1: put facilities that sicken residents. They in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: residents successfully fought off a crude oil pipeline that would
Speaker 1: have crossed Boxtown and multiple other predominantly black communities in Memphis.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, they successfully campaigned to close a
Speaker 1: medical sterilizing facility which had been there since the seventies,
Speaker 1: which was pumping out toxic pollutione and link to breast cancer.
Speaker 1: So like, they have been fighting this fight for a
Speaker 1: very long time. And something that I thought was really
Speaker 1: interesting is that even though memphis Is Mayor Paul Jung
Speaker 1: is very supportive of this facility and says like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's gonna bring new jobs and economically revitalized the area.
Speaker 1: The residents there are smart enough to be very skeptical
Speaker 1: of back claim. They're like, oh, you know, even though
Speaker 1: they're making it seem like there's going to be training
Speaker 1: for like white collar jobs and like tech jobs, the
Speaker 1: residents are like, it's my understanding that data centers do
Speaker 1: not typically need large numbers of workers. And I think
Speaker 1: that we're being sold to false promise and the only
Speaker 1: jobs that might possibly manifest for us or like janitorial jobs.
Speaker 2: And he is right, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think
Speaker 2: that's really important. And I also think it's a it's
Speaker 2: a challenge for you know, on a local level, on
Speaker 2: a statewide level, like we need better we need better representatives,
Speaker 2: we need we need folks who are actually going to
Speaker 2: fight this. Not sadly this week, senators like Kirsten Gillibrand
Speaker 2: or you know, Reuben Diego who voted in favor of
Speaker 2: basically a crypto currency you know, so called you know,
Speaker 2: uh like regulation bill, but it absolutely does not regulate
Speaker 2: crypto or stable coin and allows Trump to continue his
Speaker 2: meme coins and everybody else. So like again, it's all
Speaker 2: kind of part of like the tech oligarchy getting their way.
Speaker 2: The other thing that's important to know, and I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if this is part of this story, is also
Speaker 2: that in order to cool down the data centers to
Speaker 2: do the generative AI you which is just so funny,
Speaker 2: like generative, like like who the fuck is generating? In
Speaker 2: a punch of power and fresh water? You have to
Speaker 2: use fresh water to cool down the systems, not even saltwater,
Speaker 2: so like they get super super hot because everyone's like
Speaker 2: trying to like manufacture you know, the perfect AI girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Uh and then you know, and then a bunch of
Speaker 2: fresh water gets used. Where do you think that freshwater
Speaker 2: comes from? Probably the same community. So it's I mean,
Speaker 2: it's truly pillaging local communities like this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really it broke my heart, but was
Speaker 1: so accurate to hear that resident describe his own community
Speaker 1: as like a sacrifice zone that people just take and
Speaker 1: take and take and exploit and exploit and exploit. And
Speaker 1: they do so for these you know, so called innovations,
Speaker 1: and they're just supposed to be okay with it. They're
Speaker 1: supposed to be okay with being deprived taken from having
Speaker 1: their resources taken and sickened in the process, or they're
Speaker 1: meant to be like thank you for these opportunities to
Speaker 1: do this. It's really just a toxic dynamic, and it's
Speaker 1: one that I think we really need to change. Like
Speaker 1: like I it makes me angry that lawmakers who are
Speaker 1: meant to be representing the folks who put them in
Speaker 1: office have just like abdicated the responsibility on this and
Speaker 1: thrown up their hands and said, oh, maybe maybe they'll
Speaker 1: be a janitorial in it for you. Like, it's just
Speaker 1: very deeply insulting.
Speaker 4: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.
Speaker 1: So Elon Musk was interviewed and he said that he's
Speaker 1: going to spend a lot less money and time in politics.
Speaker 1: He said, I think I've done enough. We'll see if
Speaker 1: I have a reason to do political spending in the future.
Speaker 1: I don't really see a reason. He's also talking about
Speaker 1: politics a lot less. He used to post about politics NonStop,
Speaker 1: but now it's mostly just about his companies. According to
Speaker 1: the Post, in February, more than half of Musk's posts
Speaker 1: and reposts on x were about Doge. About thirteen percent
Speaker 1: of his February post mentioned Trump by name, nearly double
Speaker 1: that proportion named one of his companies. So far in May,
Speaker 1: those numbers have reversed. Now under twenty percent of his
Speaker 1: posts are out doge or politics, and more than half
Speaker 1: are about his business ventures. So yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: pretty big shift. And I have heard people say like, oh,
Speaker 1: because if companies are taking a hit, he's super unpopular.
Speaker 1: What he's doing in government is unpopular, so he's retreating.
Speaker 1: But I actually see it differently. I think what he's
Speaker 1: actually saying is like, I've got what I wanted, so
Speaker 1: now I can be done. I have, like you know,
Speaker 1: grifted my grift. I have gotten rid of the voices
Speaker 1: who would have regulated my companies. I have made some cushy,
Speaker 1: lucrative contracts. I've got a little money in my pocket.
Speaker 1: I think the government grift has paid off for him.
Speaker 1: He has personally enriched himself and now he can back off.
Speaker 1: That's what I think.
Speaker 2: Again, I really want to disagree with you here, Bridget,
Speaker 2: but I think it's yes, I think it is that.
Speaker 2: But I also do think that the amount of Tesla
Speaker 2: takedown protests, which I mean hats off to the continued
Speaker 2: protests that are taking place on all different kinds of
Speaker 2: dealership and whatnot, as well as the Wisconsin you know,
Speaker 2: Judge seat loss after he poured, however, many millions and
Speaker 2: millions of dollars into that and got his ass handed
Speaker 2: him handed to him by the people of Wisconsin is amazing. Like,
Speaker 2: those two things are huge, and so he even just
Speaker 2: on a pr level, knows that he's not helpful to
Speaker 2: the MAGA brand. But you're I do think you're right
Speaker 2: that the behind the scenes, if you have gotten all
Speaker 2: of our irs information, our social security data, you know,
Speaker 2: if you have now allowed for sharing between federal agencies
Speaker 2: of our private information in addition to, according to whistleblowers,
Speaker 2: possibly foreign governments, you've got a fuck ton of leverage
Speaker 2: and a fucked onn of way to make even more
Speaker 2: money than you already have. So he might have a
Speaker 2: little dip right now. You know, he obviously borrowed or
Speaker 2: he bought Twitter on some Tesla stock that's not doing
Speaker 2: very well. But give him some time when you know,
Speaker 2: big Balls and some other little pepe meme can develop
Speaker 2: some new payment system for federal workers who remain and
Speaker 2: and or sell our data to a foreign I mean,
Speaker 2: like then he's like, we also know that he's strong
Speaker 2: arming other nations into using starlink to get their internet,
Speaker 2: so like bullshit that he's going away, bullshit, he's taking
Speaker 2: a break, He's just pressing pause while more evil is done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the grift is truly global with him. I I mean,
Speaker 1: I we talked about this on the show before, but
Speaker 1: when he was doing his sort of woe with Me tour,
Speaker 1: being like I'm losing so much money and I'm only
Speaker 1: all I'm trying to do is point out waste and
Speaker 1: fraud and what like, I'm not a bad guy, cry
Speaker 1: merely like I I wish that Like he in my mind,
Speaker 1: he is like the ultimate welfare queen of Like he
Speaker 1: is actually the person who was like scamming and personally
Speaker 1: enriching himself at our dime. He is taking from me
Speaker 1: brokies who live in fucking one bedroom apartments like myself
Speaker 1: to enrich himself. And he's the richest man on earth.
Speaker 2: Three children. He's he's definitionally a welfare.
Speaker 1: To a tea and so it just is wild to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I when he's when he's talking about
Speaker 1: like retreating from politics, that completely agree. I don't think
Speaker 1: he I don't think he's retreating at all. I think
Speaker 1: he's like it's just getting he can do more behind
Speaker 1: the scenes than he can in front of the scenes,
Speaker 1: because I think that when he's publicly attached to stuff,
Speaker 1: it doesn't like people don't like him, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2: He's talks and he's got the opposite effect. I mean,
Speaker 2: he should have never been in the public eye. They
Speaker 2: prove that he also you know, in oval office meetings,
Speaker 2: you know, he would get into big fights with different
Speaker 2: agency heads and you know, he was not a pleasant
Speaker 2: person to be around. Dude was like sleeping on couches
Speaker 2: in the White House and not showering and wearing the
Speaker 2: same shit over and over again, like you know, all
Speaker 2: for the American people, like no, all for massive security
Speaker 2: breaches and again stealing our information. So I'm here's my
Speaker 2: thing is like if and when Democrats ever regained control.
Speaker 2: To me, the damage that Doge has done is probably
Speaker 2: the biggest thing that needs remedy. And if there is
Speaker 2: not accountability, if there is not a restoration of both
Speaker 2: jobs but also our data privacy of you know, security protocols,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really sick to bridge it because like
Speaker 2: you know, we're in a moment where like the oligarchy
Speaker 2: is such, where like the lines have been drawn. If
Speaker 2: a lot of tech people are just like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: in it for the money. Fuck democracy and all the
Speaker 2: sort of veneer of we are an innovative future looking democratic,
Speaker 2: multicultural da da d all. That's bullshit. It's been bullshit.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I know there are good people in
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley and in tech. I know there are. They're
Speaker 2: not in power, but I know there are, and I
Speaker 2: know there are people who could work with the federal
Speaker 2: government to help us. Shit, So this is me is
Speaker 2: sort of like think, you know, future dripping about like
Speaker 2: how do we get all of this back? How do
Speaker 2: we wrest this control back from these gorules?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I firmly believe that. I mean, there was a
Speaker 1: time where you had more thoughtful, ethical voices and tech
Speaker 1: who genuinely were interested in using technology to build a
Speaker 1: better future. And I think that, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of those voices got sideline erased, pushed out. Those happen
Speaker 1: to be diverse voices as well, and so those people
Speaker 1: are there, they exist. I think that people like Elon
Speaker 1: Musk and other tech leaders have really been able to
Speaker 1: flip the script and make it seem like one technology
Speaker 1: only gets built on a handful of companies by a
Speaker 1: handful of people. That's so not true too, that the
Speaker 1: only people who are doing anything, or the only voices
Speaker 1: worth listening to in tech are the most unethical, not thoughtful,
Speaker 1: paranoid like delusional, like not with it, people like it
Speaker 1: truly is. And it's like like we have gotten mixed
Speaker 1: up and are tape being taken along for the ride
Speaker 1: of these horrible people who are telling us this is
Speaker 1: the way it has to be. And I know, I
Speaker 1: firmly believe that that is a lie. It does not
Speaker 1: have to be this way. It was not always that way,
Speaker 1: and they're banking on us like memory, holding the fact
Speaker 1: that it used to not be that way. That when
Speaker 1: you thought there was a time where when you thought
Speaker 1: about technology, it was exciting, You had apps that you loved.
Speaker 1: When you thought about what the internet was, it was
Speaker 1: like lots of weird little sites that people were running
Speaker 1: just because of the fun of it, or just because
Speaker 1: they cared about something, or it was a community of
Speaker 1: people gathering, you know, around one idea or one passion.
Speaker 1: And I think that we have forgotten, we have allowed
Speaker 1: these tech leaders to memory hold that and make us
Speaker 1: forget what it used to be like it used. I
Speaker 1: don't want to get too nostalgic, because like it definitely
Speaker 1: had problems back in the day as well, but like
Speaker 1: it used to be better than this, and it can.
Speaker 1: It has been better than this, and it can be
Speaker 1: better than this. We deserve better than this.
Speaker 2: Yes, And and actually the height of freedom, I mean,
Speaker 2: what's so? I mean they're open hypocrites and elon and
Speaker 2: you know the rest of the Peter thiels like they're
Speaker 2: all full of shit. I mean they're all like, oh,
Speaker 2: free speech and free society and and and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but the old Internet was the freest we've ever been,
Speaker 2: you know, like the Internet being run by ten companies,
Speaker 2: tech being run by like three companies is not freedom
Speaker 2: at all. So I think that's the other thing is
Speaker 2: like we also have to reclaim this mantle of freedom
Speaker 2: and free speech. And it's just wild to me that
Speaker 2: And it's such a failure of the Democratic Party too,
Speaker 2: that like we can I started to get really sick
Speaker 2: to my stomach when I think about all the things
Speaker 2: that we could have, would should have, But like Democratic
Speaker 2: Party could have been the party of privacy and you
Speaker 2: know ending, you know, surveillance, and of course Obama did
Speaker 2: a lot of good things, but Mom also went after
Speaker 2: Edward Stein. And it's like, no, we could have actually
Speaker 2: planted a flag on that and been like, we protect
Speaker 2: your data. There's nothing more important than protecting your data.
Speaker 2: You have the freedom to you know, use the Internet
Speaker 2: as you want, and it shouldn't be just a bunch
Speaker 2: of conglomerates and Biden's antitrusts, you know, FTC started doing
Speaker 2: some of that. So I just it's like, god, it
Speaker 2: makes me so terrified because this is one thing where
Speaker 2: also Democrats still believe in that old culture of tech
Speaker 2: and they use it again as like a shield to
Speaker 2: still raise money from actually really villainous people.
Speaker 1: I think that democrats get to sort of in ways
Speaker 1: that are unearned, in my opinion, get to enjoy like
Speaker 1: being a little bit better on the issue, even though
Speaker 1: like you're not really doing much on it. And like,
Speaker 1: I if we could go back in time and have
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, Yeah, as you said, make privacy and
Speaker 1: internet freedom part and parcel of what it meant to
Speaker 1: be a democrat. Imagine we're going to be today, Like,
Speaker 1: but things could be would be so different.
Speaker 2: Right, And actually I do think like the grift of
Speaker 2: oh I'm a forward thinking you know, pro democracy, multi
Speaker 2: and multiracial, multi religious, you know, like support DEI program's company,
Speaker 2: I think that grift was kind of meant to pull
Speaker 2: the wool over on. I think some liberals eyes and
Speaker 2: that you know, the final form really is monopoly and control.
Speaker 2: And you know, now Mark Zuckerberg god to be Sheryl Sandberg,
Speaker 2: which is just so funny and rich, and I just
Speaker 2: could I just like this, I need I could write
Speaker 2: like a ten episode podcast about the rise and fall
Speaker 2: of lean In, you know, because it's like, nah, man,
Speaker 2: the final form is we're in control where the oligarchs,
Speaker 2: fuck you you allowed us to get this big ha
Speaker 2: ha ha. We just played with some you know, lightweight
Speaker 2: DEI programs, which are good again, but we just you know,
Speaker 2: we don't actually care about real equity or real inclusion
Speaker 2: or you know, actually doing you know, making sure our
Speaker 2: spaces are not actually hotbeds of racism and misogyny. So anyway, first.
Speaker 1: Of all, I have met Sheryl Sandberg in person, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've told this story in the
Speaker 1: podcast before, but I was like barely invited to a
Speaker 1: book launch she did, and I will never forget it
Speaker 1: was sort of like it was right after Trump got elected,
Speaker 1: and it was like it was at a very different time,
Speaker 1: and I remember it was all of these like journalists
Speaker 1: and like women media, like Rah rah women in media.
Speaker 1: And this was right when we were starting to learn
Speaker 1: more about like Cambridge Analytica and what the role that
Speaker 1: Facebook had is getting Trump elected. And Cheryl Sandberg is
Speaker 1: there doing a very kind of like puffy Q and
Speaker 1: A about her new book about grief, Option B and
Speaker 1: somebody asked. She was like, oh, I've been reading about
Speaker 1: the way that Facebook has been perhaps illegally using all
Speaker 1: of our data to help get you know, to help
Speaker 1: get Trump elected and meddle our elections. And I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: She was like, today's about women's empowerment. Let's stay on focus.
Speaker 1: Like that's how she answered the question. Today's about the women.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's keep our focus on that.
Speaker 2: I have so many words, but that is truly disgraceful.
Speaker 1: It was, And I have to say, you're it's almost
Speaker 1: like you are a mind reader with the whole company's
Speaker 1: kind of limply embracing DEI and then just using it
Speaker 1: to gobble up more power. Because did you hear about
Speaker 1: Verizon and DEI, So basically, in twenty twenty, Verizon claimed
Speaker 1: to be like all in on DEE. They put out
Speaker 1: statements after the death of George Floyd that was like,
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion are greatest superpowers. YadA, YadA, YadA. Cut
Speaker 1: to this week, Verizon sends a letter to the FCC
Speaker 1: stating that it is ending all DEI policy, So no
Speaker 1: more DEI teams or roles. They're taking all the all
Speaker 1: the references to DEI from their training materials, no more
Speaker 1: workforce diversity goals, and they're taking it further because they're
Speaker 1: basically like memory holding it. They scrubbed the fact that
Speaker 1: Verizon was ever involved in any of this from their website.
Speaker 1: When you go to the DEI pages online, it just
Speaker 1: redirects to generic Verizon content, and.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: The Verizon said that this was because of like Trump's
Speaker 1: executive orders and Supreme Court and federal mandates, but like
Speaker 1: there's no Supreme Court ruling banning DEI or you know,
Speaker 1: those kinds of goals, and you know, certainly other companies
Speaker 1: like Costco when Trump was like, you need to stop DEI.
Speaker 1: They were like, kick rock, will do what we want.
Speaker 1: And the timing of this is very suspicious because Verrizon
Speaker 1: announced this just a day before the FCC approved Verizon's
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollar acquisition of Frontier Communications. UH. The SCC's
Speaker 1: approval emphasized that Verizon had gotten rid of their their
Speaker 1: quote discriminatory DEI policies, and it really does seem like
Speaker 1: Verizon was like, fine, well, abandon all of our commitments
Speaker 1: to DEI if you were if we're able to get
Speaker 1: this merger, and the SCC was like, bet sure, great dude,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: It's not even there. That is exactly what happened. There's
Speaker 2: no mystery here. That is so terrifying and disgusting. I mean,
Speaker 2: and you see the same thing with you know, CBS,
Speaker 2: right paramount is trying to what is it work with
Speaker 2: like Skynet News one, I don't know where the fuck
Speaker 2: is sky something, and they're trying to get their merger
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, oh, we can just do this
Speaker 2: by getting rid of all of these policies. These are
Speaker 2: going to have massive impacts on workers. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that we need to remember
Speaker 2: about the anti DEI backlash is it's it's really it's
Speaker 2: a worker's fight. It's a fight on an attack on workers.
Speaker 2: Everything we're seeing as an attack on workers, and we
Speaker 2: have to like again, whenever you know, it's like, the
Speaker 2: working class is women of color, predominantly women of color.
Speaker 2: That is just what it is. The amount of Black
Speaker 2: Americans in federal jobs. What is it like twenty percent
Speaker 2: of the workforce or something, or twenty percent. I forgot
Speaker 2: what the twenty percent was, but it's a huge percentage.
Speaker 2: This is deliberate. It's an attack on workers. It's a
Speaker 2: racist attack on workers.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's that's so sick. God, I'm so glad
Speaker 2: Verizon has shipped service in my neighborhood and we had
Speaker 2: to switch to AT and T. I'm sure AT and
Speaker 2: T is up to no good and I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: a T mobile bitch at some point. It's gonna have
Speaker 2: to happen more.
Speaker 4: After a quick break, let's get right back into it.
Speaker 1: Wait, I have to ask switching gears a little bit.
Speaker 1: Did you hear about this fake AI generated booklist that
Speaker 1: was published in the Chicago Sun Times.
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: My gosh, okay, it's all I've been thinking about for
Speaker 1: the whole week. So it's just like a very wild
Speaker 1: story to me. Basically, some newspapers, like print newspapers, including
Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times and at least one edition of
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Inquirer, published a syndicated summer booklist that was
Speaker 1: like obviously AI generated that included fake books, like made
Speaker 1: up books by famous authors. So it said that Perceville Emritt,
Speaker 1: who won the Pulitzer this year for fiction, was coming
Speaker 1: out with a book called The rain Makers that's supposedly
Speaker 1: set in quote the near future American West, where artificially
Speaker 1: induced rain has become a luxury commodity. Uh, bullshit, that
Speaker 1: book doesn't exist. He did not publish that book.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: They said that Chilean author Isabella Allende was putting out
Speaker 1: a book called Tidewater Dreams, and they described it as
Speaker 1: these the first climate fiction novel all the first, have
Speaker 1: the very first. These are not real books.
Speaker 2: In fact, Octavia Butler.
Speaker 1: She would be to differ. In fact, of the fifteen
Speaker 1: books on this like must read twenty twenty five summer
Speaker 1: fiction list, only five of the books were real. The
Speaker 1: rest of them were all made up.
Speaker 2: Yo, So they straight up outsourced their reading list to
Speaker 2: AI and thought no one would notice.
Speaker 1: Yes, and they're not, Like they're like, it would be
Speaker 1: bad enough if it was just like an online thing.
Speaker 1: This was in their print edition. Like people got pictures
Speaker 1: of themselves holding the print edition of this, So like,
Speaker 1: how did this come to be? I saw on Blue
Speaker 1: Sky that the Chicago Sun Time. Somebody who worked there
Speaker 1: was like, we're looking into how this got published, which
Speaker 1: that also raises questions of, like you don't know how
Speaker 1: this got published? Very good question, like definitely worth looking into,
Speaker 1: so it gets a little stickier. According to Victor Limb,
Speaker 1: the marketing director of the Chicago Sun Times parent company,
Speaker 1: Chicago Public Media, the list was part of licensed content
Speaker 1: provided by King Features, a unit of the publisher Hearst Newspapers.
Speaker 1: According to NPR, even though the piece has no byline,
Speaker 1: a writer did claim responsibility for it and did say
Speaker 1: that it was generated by AI. Obviously, he says, huge
Speaker 1: mistake on my part and has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the Sun Times. They trust the content that they purchased
Speaker 1: from me is accurate, and I've betrayed that trust. It
Speaker 1: is on me one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Wait, I love it. I love reading a little bit more.
Speaker 2: This guy, the freelancer says that while he does sometimes
Speaker 2: use AI to create content, he typically checks it before
Speaker 2: submitting it.
Speaker 1: Oh so you what I can what I can, Yo, bridgie.
Speaker 2: Like I used to write when I lived in Argentina
Speaker 2: years and years and years, I'm not really like ten
Speaker 2: years ago. Like one of the things that there was,
Speaker 2: like a freelance gig was farmed out. Was just like
Speaker 2: writing travel guides for some online site about cities I
Speaker 2: had never been to. But I did my research and
Speaker 2: looked at other guides and looked at the city explanations
Speaker 2: and just kind of like I didn't plagiarize, but I
Speaker 2: wrote my own after reading a bunch of other guides
Speaker 2: version for this guide. Now, that is very much like
Speaker 2: that job right there, which maybe I don't know how
Speaker 2: much should I get one hundred dollars is definitely being
Speaker 2: farmed out to AI as we speak. But like I
Speaker 2: love the idea that, like if I had that job now,
Speaker 2: my lazy ass couldn't even do my own fucking reasearch
Speaker 2: on a listical on a fucking listicle of books, and
Speaker 2: ironically their.
Speaker 1: Books you have to read.
Speaker 2: You don't even have to read the book when you
Speaker 2: got to read the title.
Speaker 1: You just go to the books that've been released in.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five. I just look at just go to publishers.
Speaker 2: I don't even like I don't follow books, but like,
Speaker 2: I don't know Penguin Random House, Like, it's so wild
Speaker 2: to me that someone And and look if he's like
Speaker 2: if he came clean and was like, listen, I got
Speaker 2: fifty dollars to do this article sucked the Sun Times,
Speaker 2: I will I'm like, I'm with him, But come on,
Speaker 2: my guy, how many people in Memphis can't breathe because
Speaker 2: you had to do this Canada bai for how much
Speaker 2: fresh water was used so we could create a fake
Speaker 2: Isabella Yende book.
Speaker 1: And that's I mean that. The commentary around that pretty
Speaker 1: much said exactly that. Kelly Jensen, who is a former
Speaker 1: librarian and the editor of Book Riot, had a very
Speaker 1: good point. She said, this is the future of book
Speaker 1: recommendations when libraries are defunded and dismantled. Trained professionals are
Speaker 1: removed in exchange for made up, inaccurate garbage. And it's
Speaker 1: just like what you were saying, Like you couldn't even
Speaker 1: scroll Amazon and be like, well, I haven't read this book,
Speaker 1: but it's a book you could buy it that exist.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, It's real, Like what was the prompt to
Speaker 2: like AI is also bad? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: AI is not actually good at it. And that's even
Speaker 2: if it were good, and in some cases it is,
Speaker 2: I still contest fuck AI and I just again I
Speaker 2: don't know, like especially as writers, because what you're doing
Speaker 2: is you're actively undermining your goddamn job. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts because as I came
Speaker 2: from aj plus you know, Valgaiesier Media, and they were like,
Speaker 2: you know, we were doing spearheading a lot of this
Speaker 2: like short form content, but but BA text on screen
Speaker 2: over images, right, that was like now this news and
Speaker 2: aj plus were really big on Facebook. Now all of
Speaker 2: that stuff is just AI. I think I'm assuming. I
Speaker 2: believe it can generate like a couple of images from
Speaker 2: a story text on screen and then done. So it
Speaker 2: is it's not like, oh, yeah, we've we shouldn't have
Speaker 2: created the terminator, you know, or the T one thousand,
Speaker 2: but like there is a little bit of like this,
Speaker 2: what is what happens when like with the I don't know,
Speaker 2: the sort of shorthand and shittification of content and news
Speaker 2: in general. I'm having a little bit of a existential
Speaker 2: moment here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I wish so deeply I could say
Speaker 1: I've never used AI, but I have been known to
Speaker 1: use chatshept if I have to write a rough email,
Speaker 1: like an email where I'm like, oh, I really don't
Speaker 1: want to write this, or like this is I don't
Speaker 1: know what to say, like a like a like a
Speaker 1: complic an email, right, I have to convey a complicated
Speaker 1: set of feelings.
Speaker 2: And oh, okay, it's complicated feelings. Let's say AI.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's probably the worst, the worst youth.
Speaker 2: Say tell me you're talking about a breakup without telling
Speaker 2: me your.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, it's I don't see it will help you
Speaker 1: if you dreading writing a breakup email, it could help you.
Speaker 1: I'll put it that way. But I will say, like
Speaker 1: having a big think about it. I had a similar
Speaker 1: existential like spin out about this because I was like,
Speaker 1: don't I owe the people who are like actually in
Speaker 1: my life the time to sit down and like put
Speaker 1: my thoughts together, and even if it's hard, even if
Speaker 1: it's cathartic even if it's difficult, don't I owe them
Speaker 1: me the human actually sitting down and like like writing
Speaker 1: out how I feel before I send it, as opposed
Speaker 1: to just like asking chat GBT to do it for me.
Speaker 1: I really had a like deep, deep, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say crisis, but like you know, and I think
Speaker 1: when I hear people like Mark Zuckerberg talking about the
Speaker 1: future of friendship, how you know, Facebook, he admits, is
Speaker 1: like no longer for friends in the future, role have
Speaker 1: AI friends on Facebook and that's who we'll talk to.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's not a future that I want. Even
Speaker 1: when human to human connection is difficult or hard or emotional,
Speaker 1: that's the point of being alive. Like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to outsource that. I don't want my I don't want
Speaker 1: my friend to be AI and never like.
Speaker 2: But also that is the point when you are an
Speaker 2: unsuckable little shit, uh you know, and you all got
Speaker 2: into tech starting to rank chicks rather than talk to
Speaker 2: them in their face. That's what happens. I mean again,
Speaker 2: we're just creating all Like the word tech bro's been
Speaker 2: around forever and it is a smarmy kid that cannot
Speaker 2: make eye contact with anybody, but also makes more money
Speaker 2: than you'll ever see in your life and dresses like shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And are these the people we want to take
Speaker 1: our cues for the future of friendship from? Like, do
Speaker 1: you want someone like Mark Zuckerberd in charge of design?
Speaker 1: If using technology to design the future of what friendship
Speaker 1: will look like in your life? I would argue no.
Speaker 1: I would argue that again, that iteration of the future
Speaker 1: is worse than the one that came before it.
Speaker 2: Okay, bridget question for you. What happened to the metaverse?
Speaker 2: Is it still a verse?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: They kind of abandoned it. H Yeah, they kind of
Speaker 1: abandoned the meta They were all in on the metaverse.
Speaker 1: They even had a big announcement when their metaverse AI
Speaker 1: characters kind have legs. They had a whole big announcement.
Speaker 1: They're like, we've got legs now. It took them a
Speaker 1: long time to break the legs code. But no, it's
Speaker 1: no longer really a thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, So so it kind of went the way of
Speaker 2: the Google glass because I've been talking to people about like, look,
Speaker 2: it is possible to shame people's product to shit.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, do you remember when Google? I mean
Speaker 1: you you live in California, so maybe you've lived through this.
Speaker 1: When Google Glass first came out, and like it was
Speaker 1: all the stories were like I went into a bar
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, We're in Google glass, and I got
Speaker 1: thrown out. Like it was just like story after story.
Speaker 2: Crazy about that. It was crazy about that. I don't
Speaker 2: actually think there were that many stories, but there was
Speaker 2: that one story where this woman goes into a bar
Speaker 2: with the Google glass and then writes some posts as
Speaker 2: if she's the victim. But everyone was like, honestly, you
Speaker 2: sound so unfun and I would have kicked you out too,
Speaker 2: And the and the reverb of that story of how
Speaker 2: like again before we even had Karen language, how Karen
Speaker 2: it was, and how corny it was, and what a
Speaker 2: tech idiot and kind of just a loser you looked
Speaker 2: like it it was magical. So it's like it's it's
Speaker 2: almost like, I don't know, it's like mythical, that story
Speaker 2: because it really tamed the Google glass wearers. And I
Speaker 2: don't know what, what's the big faculous Yeah, the big
Speaker 2: oculus or the Google one that people kind of walk around,
Speaker 2: Oh about shame, shoot, what is that? Oh, it's the
Speaker 2: it's the new Apple VR. What is the Apple Vision Pro? Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: Apple Vision Pro, the Apple Vision Pro. Like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if people are actually wearing that out.
Speaker 1: So I have a theory that people don't want wearables.
Speaker 1: This is I've said this from day one. The only
Speaker 1: wearables that have actually ever seen anybody wear are the
Speaker 1: ones that are that like essentially look like sunglasses. So
Speaker 1: I will say, like Meta does have a collab with
Speaker 1: ray Bands, I would never wear it, but those are
Speaker 1: the only wearables I think that people would actually wear
Speaker 1: ones that just look like like regular sunglasses. I don't
Speaker 1: think people want big shit on their face, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't think that you would, like imagine sharing a space
Speaker 1: with like your partner or your roommate, and as opposed
Speaker 1: to it as like holding your phone, you've got a
Speaker 1: big thing on your face. It's like it's like too
Speaker 1: much shit on your face. I don't think people want that.
Speaker 2: That is my like, Yeah, there's too much.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to be around anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to be around anymore. There's too
Speaker 2: much shit on me and words to live by.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh, frand Jasica, talking to you is such a delight,
Speaker 1: Like you, Oh my God, you have such a like
Speaker 1: you just bring such an energy and a light to
Speaker 1: these stories. I do this every week and like this,
Speaker 1: you have a you really bring a player to this.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh my God. Likewise, thank you so much. These are
Speaker 2: great stories and also stories I was haven't even talked
Speaker 2: about this week, which is wild because I talk about everything. No,
Speaker 2: but like, that's why I think this show is so excellent,
Speaker 2: because you're like, you miss this so and everyone's over here,
Speaker 2: Bridge is over here, so and they're very important. But yeah, man,
Speaker 2: thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Where can folks listen to the Situation Room?
Speaker 2: I was gonna segue into the plugs. I just teed
Speaker 2: you up instead, YouTube dot com, slash Franny fo f
Speaker 2: r A and I FIO for the live show Tuesday's
Speaker 2: Wednesday Fridays one being Pacific four pm Eastern, or the
Speaker 2: Bituation Room wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: And you can find me on social media. I'm on
Speaker 1: Instagram at bridget Ran DC, I'm on TikTok at bridget
Speaker 1: Ran d C. And I'm on YouTube at there are
Speaker 1: no girls on the Internet. Yeah, that's right, I just
Speaker 1: started it, so I'm have not memorized you'll be my
Speaker 1: like ninety third follower subscriber, Earli. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: We will see you on the Internet. If you're looking
Speaker 1: for ways to support the show, check out our March
Speaker 1: store at tegoty dot com slash store. Got a story
Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to
Speaker 1: say hi, You can reach us at Hello at tangody
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode
Speaker 1: at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls on the
Speaker 1: Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan
Speaker 1: Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer
Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm
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