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Speaker 1: Getty show. In that email, there's no question that Age
Speaker 1: stands for a Hunter, big Guy for his father Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: and Jim for Jim Biden. In fact, Hunter often referred
Speaker 1: to his father as the big guy or my chairman.
Speaker 1: So that's Tony Bobo Lensky. He came forward yesterday and
Speaker 1: put his name in face on this scandal, this fakes handle,
Speaker 1: according to most of the mainstream media about Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: absolutely knew about the business dealings that Hunter had trading
Speaker 1: on the Biden name. And this Tony Bubblinski has got
Speaker 1: the cell phones and emails and the text to prove it.
Speaker 1: He says, and he's turned him over to the Senate
Speaker 1: and the FBI. He's a former Navy officer. I think
Speaker 1: it's high time the Washington Post, the New York Times,
Speaker 1: sixty minutes and everybody gets into this story. Well, let's
Speaker 1: discuss the story, it's significance, the debate, and much more
Speaker 1: with lan Hea Chen David and Diane Stephy, fellow in
Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, also the
Speaker 1: host of the most excellent podcast, Crossing Lines with ln
Speaker 1: he Chen Loti. How are you, sir? I'm glad we
Speaker 1: had a real debate last night that was absolutely refreshing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been saying all morning long, what what would be
Speaker 1: different if if Trump had been that Trump first debate?
Speaker 1: We might we might be in a different situation right now,
Speaker 1: and then gone ahead and done it again in the
Speaker 1: second debate and followed up with last night. What do
Speaker 1: you think? I think you're right, we very well could
Speaker 1: be in a different place. I think that first debate,
Speaker 1: you know, as much as we talked about this race
Speaker 1: and the dynamics of the race having been set, I
Speaker 1: think the first debate for Trump reinforced the things people
Speaker 1: didn't like about him, and if if he had come out,
Speaker 1: you know, last night I thought was a very controlled performance.
Speaker 1: I thought he was able to back bide it into
Speaker 1: a corner, particularly guys on this energy stuff. This is
Speaker 1: gonna be huge in Pennsylvania, Ohio, all the energy extraction states.
Speaker 1: You go out there and basically say you're sympathetic to
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal, that you want to get rid
Speaker 1: of oil. You know, the whole Trump riff about windows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was funny, but you know that's the kind of
Speaker 1: crazy stuff that's in the Green New Deal, like it's
Speaker 1: actually in there. So I thought, I thought Trump did
Speaker 1: a good job of that last night. And you're right,
Speaker 1: if that Trump had showed up three weeks ago, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the dynamics of the race would be a little different.
Speaker 1: Who knows. But but last night I think for Trump,
Speaker 1: you got to consider it a good performance form And
Speaker 1: as we were discussing off the air just moments ago,
Speaker 1: I thought, last night Trump reminded a lot of people
Speaker 1: why they fell in love with them, saying, listen all
Speaker 1: the talk the guy who's in office forever, he's a
Speaker 1: typical politician that that message still resonates, and it was
Speaker 1: completely hidden in the first debate, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: We are where we are and it is what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that for me, by the way, is the most effective line,
Speaker 1: the most effective line of attack against Joe Biden. And
Speaker 1: it goes to all of the suspicions people have about politicians.
Speaker 1: It goes to all the suspicions people have about the
Speaker 1: usual political talk. You know, when when Biden started talking
Speaker 1: about growing up kitchen table middle class and Trump came
Speaker 1: back and said, that's just politician talked, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people sort of nodding their heads and saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, actually, as politician talk, why don't you tell
Speaker 1: us what it is you really want to do? And
Speaker 1: and that line of attack. You've had forty seven years
Speaker 1: to get stuff done. I've been in office for forty
Speaker 1: seven months, and compare my record to yours. I think
Speaker 1: that is exactly the sort of thing he needed to do. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know. And of course the challenge here is did
Speaker 1: he give enough people who maybe turned off by the Trump,
Speaker 1: maybe turned off by by Trump's personality by the way
Speaker 1: he does things. Did he give the those people permission
Speaker 1: to vote for him last night? I think that will
Speaker 1: be a big open question so we played the clip
Speaker 1: coming in of this guy who has come out and
Speaker 1: put his face in his name and his life's reputation
Speaker 1: on a story about Hunter Biden and emails and tying
Speaker 1: Joe Biden to business dealings and the you know, the
Speaker 1: big foot media um has been more than willing over
Speaker 1: the last several years to run front page stories, lead
Speaker 1: stories with either anonymous sources or you know, or whatever.
Speaker 1: They're perfectly happy to do that. Now you've got a
Speaker 1: guy out there. Does this turn into something? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it turns into something. I
Speaker 1: think it doesn't turn into something, in part because of
Speaker 1: what you suggested that there's really very little interest amongst
Speaker 1: those who would usually amplify a story like this. In fact,
Speaker 1: more than that, actually, you know, we've seen active efforts
Speaker 1: to suppress it. If you turn on uh, you know,
Speaker 1: any of the will not any CNN and MSNBC and
Speaker 1: and the major you know over the network stations, you
Speaker 1: turn them on, they're not int did in talking about
Speaker 1: this story. It doesn't exist, right, It's it's almost like
Speaker 1: it never happened. And and by the way, to me,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I question elements of this story. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's real and would help if Rudy Giuliani
Speaker 1: wasn't involved. Rudy Hunting being involved does not help any
Speaker 1: story you're ever in. But well, i'll tell you. I
Speaker 1: feel like if we end up with a president whose
Speaker 1: family profits from them being in office, a whole home.
Speaker 1: We've had plenty of politicians where that happens. But if
Speaker 1: we've crossed some sort of line with journalism where uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a person coming out and actually putting their
Speaker 1: name and face on it. Hey, here are my cell phones,
Speaker 1: here are my emails, and we don't at least look
Speaker 1: into it. I don't know if it's going to turn
Speaker 1: out to be true or not, but I feel like
Speaker 1: we've crossed some sort of line. It disturbs me well,
Speaker 1: for instance, and then we'll let you comment. Lonnie. The
Speaker 1: headline the headline in a news story in the Washington
Speaker 1: Post is Trump campaign trots out former business associate of
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden ahead of debate. Good lord, I remember when
Speaker 1: the Washington Post engaged in journalism. Well, and I think
Speaker 1: that's part of that that We've talked about this before.
Speaker 1: But you know, people have expected the media in the
Speaker 1: past to play the role of watchdog right to help
Speaker 1: to help us uncover stories, and they've done a good
Speaker 1: job of it in the past. The problem we're seeing
Speaker 1: now I do think that missing this is absolutely true
Speaker 1: that you know, everybody in the media, all of these reporters,
Speaker 1: they all have their own biases. It's natural the human beings.
Speaker 1: The question is how much does that bias seep into
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do day to day and and
Speaker 1: for them to still call it objective journalism in many
Speaker 1: cases I think is a big problem, and we just
Speaker 1: have to recognize that there is this bias, there is
Speaker 1: this point of view, and that's what we're getting and
Speaker 1: that's what's being reflected. But look, I think there are
Speaker 1: a lot of great journalists out there. I think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people doing their jobs. But if
Speaker 1: you look at the industry as a whole, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd say probably of them voting for Biden, not five
Speaker 1: percent of their boding right, And so I think that
Speaker 1: that makes its way into what is supposedly objective, and
Speaker 1: that disconnect between what it's supposed to be and what
Speaker 1: it actually is. That's where people lose trust, and that
Speaker 1: people have lost trust. I have a rent to go
Speaker 1: off on, but I won't do it until you've headed
Speaker 1: back to your real life. Lone. He but what we've
Speaker 1: lost is not a minor point. It's incredibly important principle
Speaker 1: of journalism. But having said that, I want to circle
Speaker 1: back to the debate for a second. What how do
Speaker 1: you assess A Biden's performance? Um, I thought he was.
Speaker 1: Actually the first hour I thought was very good for him. Overall.
Speaker 1: I thought that he came across. Actually it's pretty cogent,
Speaker 1: more cogent than I than I thought. He saw he
Speaker 1: looked in the first debate. The last half hour was
Speaker 1: it was a hot mess. I think, you know, when
Speaker 1: he started to talk about energy and the oil, get
Speaker 1: rid of oil, the Green New Deal stuff. Uh, some
Speaker 1: of the conversation around North Korea was a little incoherent too.
Speaker 1: So I thought the first hour pretty good. Hold in
Speaker 1: his own last half hour hot mess. Yeah, I wonder
Speaker 1: how many people stuck around for the last half hour.
Speaker 1: Exactly If you go in fifteen minute increments, you know,
Speaker 1: the effect of the first of fifteen minutes is ten
Speaker 1: times the effect of the last fifteen minutes. I think,
Speaker 1: just because of yourship has just because I know you
Speaker 1: you've been involved in campaigns and you've you know, studied
Speaker 1: this sort of thing, you being lan he Chen most
Speaker 1: of the Crossing Lines with Lana Chen podcast. Has there
Speaker 1: ever been a presidential candidate of one of the two
Speaker 1: major parties two weeks out from an election that just
Speaker 1: stayed in the basement all week long? Has that ever happened? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that there was so called Rose
Speaker 1: Guarden strategy that's been run a few times by incub
Speaker 1: in presidents. But usually this is like the stretch run, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to be out there. You've got
Speaker 1: to be making your point to the to the voters
Speaker 1: in a pretty aggressive way. And I think there's an
Speaker 1: expectation of that. The fact that Joe Biden doesn't have
Speaker 1: a more active schedule, that he's not out there more. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, their campaign obviously thinks that is the best
Speaker 1: way for him to be successful, right. They obviously think
Speaker 1: that if he gets out there, if he's out there
Speaker 1: speaking and and and letting people see him, that that's
Speaker 1: going to produce a moment that's going to be a problem.
Speaker 1: And the only reason you keep a guy, that's the
Speaker 1: only reason you keep a guy locked up like that, right.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of a guy hit into three oh
Speaker 1: one who takes himself out of the last game of
Speaker 1: the year in baseball. It's chicken Bleepum. What's the rostar strategy?
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. Well, I mean, it's it's it's just this
Speaker 1: concept that basically, you know, you you do everything you
Speaker 1: can basically running from the This was more applicable to
Speaker 1: income and president. The idea of being that you use
Speaker 1: the majesty and the pageantry of the White House and
Speaker 1: you basically just stay there and you do events and
Speaker 1: think at the White House, but you don't actually get
Speaker 1: that out there in campaign. The goal of the strategy,
Speaker 1: of course, is to remain in people that you are
Speaker 1: the president, to remind people of things you've done. So
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different than in this situation, right,
Speaker 1: because in this situation it's a guy who's trying to
Speaker 1: become the president, who's the challenger, and it's it's just
Speaker 1: different if you've got him in his basement versus if
Speaker 1: it were Trump, let's say at the White House, and
Speaker 1: then you could say, okay, he's got a road guards,
Speaker 1: right right, Okay, I know, no Harvard Law School graduate
Speaker 1: who bleeds more Dodger Blue than you do. How are
Speaker 1: you feeling? Uh? You know? I mean, look, the ghosts
Speaker 1: of night always still still still are there, and the
Speaker 1: fact that this team has has been in good situations before,
Speaker 1: so I don't like them going out and losing Game two,
Speaker 1: breaking ball coming. It's actually one one signal on the
Speaker 1: trash candle. It not too you see he is hardcore.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. No. So look I'm hopeful. I
Speaker 1: think they've got the more talented team, so I have
Speaker 1: more expensive team the championship. Yeah, they've got a bigger payroll,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. See. My problem is I'm always getting
Speaker 1: the Houston Astros mixed up with Paul Revere, one if
Speaker 1: by Land, etcetera. Lanh Chen, who is the David Diane
Speaker 1: Staffy Fellow in American Public Policy Studies Whoever institution, hosted
Speaker 1: the podcast Crossing Lines with lanha Chen. Lanie, we could
Speaker 1: talk to you all day about this stuff and have
Speaker 1: better things to do than indulge a couple of half wits,
Speaker 1: so we'll let you go. Thanks a million, It's fine.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you against it all right. Thanks man
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