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In that email, there's no question that Age 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: stands for a Hunter, big Guy for his father Joe Biden, 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: and Jim for Jim Biden. In fact, Hunter often referred 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: to his father as the big guy or my chairman. 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: So that's Tony Bobo Lensky. He came forward yesterday and 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: put his name in face on this scandal, this fakes handle, 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: according to most of the mainstream media about Joe Biden, 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: absolutely knew about the business dealings that Hunter had trading 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: on the Biden name. And this Tony Bubblinski has got 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: the cell phones and emails and the text to prove it. 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: He says, and he's turned him over to the Senate 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: and the FBI. He's a former Navy officer. I think 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: it's high time the Washington Post, the New York Times, 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: sixty minutes and everybody gets into this story. Well, let's 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: discuss the story, it's significance, the debate, and much more 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: with lan Hea Chen David and Diane Stephy, fellow in 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, also the 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: host of the most excellent podcast, Crossing Lines with ln 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: he Chen Loti. How are you, sir? I'm glad we 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: had a real debate last night that was absolutely refreshing. Yeah, 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: we've been saying all morning long, what what would be 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: different if if Trump had been that Trump first debate? 32 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: We might we might be in a different situation right now, 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: and then gone ahead and done it again in the 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: second debate and followed up with last night. What do 35 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: you think? I think you're right, we very well could 36 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: be in a different place. I think that first debate, 37 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, as much as we talked about this race 38 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: and the dynamics of the race having been set, I 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: think the first debate for Trump reinforced the things people 40 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: didn't like about him, and if if he had come out, 41 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, last night I thought was a very controlled performance. 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I thought he was able to back bide it into 43 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: a corner, particularly guys on this energy stuff. This is 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: gonna be huge in Pennsylvania, Ohio, all the energy extraction states. 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: You go out there and basically say you're sympathetic to 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: the Green New Deal, that you want to get rid 47 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: of oil. You know, the whole Trump riff about windows. Yeah, 48 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: it was funny, but you know that's the kind of 49 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: crazy stuff that's in the Green New Deal, like it's 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: actually in there. So I thought, I thought Trump did 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: a good job of that last night. And you're right, 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: if that Trump had showed up three weeks ago, you know, 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: maybe the dynamics of the race would be a little different. 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: Who knows. But but last night I think for Trump, 55 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: you got to consider it a good performance form And 56 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: as we were discussing off the air just moments ago, 57 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: I thought, last night Trump reminded a lot of people 58 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: why they fell in love with them, saying, listen all 59 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: the talk the guy who's in office forever, he's a 60 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: typical politician that that message still resonates, and it was 61 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: completely hidden in the first debate, but I don't know. 62 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: We are where we are and it is what it is. Yeah, 63 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: that for me, by the way, is the most effective line, 64 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: the most effective line of attack against Joe Biden. And 65 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: it goes to all of the suspicions people have about politicians. 66 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: It goes to all the suspicions people have about the 67 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: usual political talk. You know, when when Biden started talking 68 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: about growing up kitchen table middle class and Trump came 69 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: back and said, that's just politician talked, I think a 70 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: lot of people sort of nodding their heads and saying, yeah, 71 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, actually, as politician talk, why don't you tell 72 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: us what it is you really want to do? And 73 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: and that line of attack. You've had forty seven years 74 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to get stuff done. I've been in office for forty 75 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: seven months, and compare my record to yours. I think 76 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: that is exactly the sort of thing he needed to do. Uh, 77 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: you know. And of course the challenge here is did 78 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: he give enough people who maybe turned off by the Trump, 79 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: maybe turned off by by Trump's personality by the way 80 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: he does things. Did he give the those people permission 81 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: to vote for him last night? I think that will 82 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: be a big open question so we played the clip 83 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: coming in of this guy who has come out and 84 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: put his face in his name and his life's reputation 85 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: on a story about Hunter Biden and emails and tying 86 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: Joe Biden to business dealings and the you know, the 87 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: big foot media um has been more than willing over 88 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: the last several years to run front page stories, lead 89 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: stories with either anonymous sources or you know, or whatever. 90 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: They're perfectly happy to do that. Now you've got a 91 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: guy out there. Does this turn into something? Do you think? 92 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it turns into something. I 93 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: think it doesn't turn into something, in part because of 94 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: what you suggested that there's really very little interest amongst 95 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: those who would usually amplify a story like this. In fact, 96 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: more than that, actually, you know, we've seen active efforts 97 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: to suppress it. If you turn on uh, you know, 98 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: any of the will not any CNN and MSNBC and 99 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: and the major you know over the network stations, you 100 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: turn them on, they're not int did in talking about 101 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: this story. It doesn't exist, right, It's it's almost like 102 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: it never happened. And and by the way, to me, 103 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. I question elements of this story. I 104 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: don't know what's real and would help if Rudy Giuliani 105 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: wasn't involved. Rudy Hunting being involved does not help any 106 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: story you're ever in. But well, i'll tell you. I 107 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: feel like if we end up with a president whose 108 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: family profits from them being in office, a whole home. 109 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: We've had plenty of politicians where that happens. But if 110 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: we've crossed some sort of line with journalism where uh, 111 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, a person coming out and actually putting their 112 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: name and face on it. Hey, here are my cell phones, 113 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: here are my emails, and we don't at least look 114 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: into it. I don't know if it's going to turn 115 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: out to be true or not, but I feel like 116 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: we've crossed some sort of line. It disturbs me well, 117 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: for instance, and then we'll let you comment. Lonnie. The 118 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: headline the headline in a news story in the Washington 119 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: Post is Trump campaign trots out former business associate of 120 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden ahead of debate. Good lord, I remember when 121 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: the Washington Post engaged in journalism. Well, and I think 122 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: that's part of that that We've talked about this before. 123 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: But you know, people have expected the media in the 124 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: past to play the role of watchdog right to help 125 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: to help us uncover stories, and they've done a good 126 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: job of it in the past. The problem we're seeing 127 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: now I do think that missing this is absolutely true 128 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: that you know, everybody in the media, all of these reporters, 129 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: they all have their own biases. It's natural the human beings. 130 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: The question is how much does that bias seep into 131 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: what they're trying to do day to day and and 132 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: for them to still call it objective journalism in many 133 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: cases I think is a big problem, and we just 134 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: have to recognize that there is this bias, there is 135 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: this point of view, and that's what we're getting and 136 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: that's what's being reflected. But look, I think there are 137 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: a lot of great journalists out there. I think there 138 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: are a lot of people doing their jobs. But if 139 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: you look at the industry as a whole, uh, you know, 140 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: I'd say probably of them voting for Biden, not five 141 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: percent of their boding right, And so I think that 142 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: that makes its way into what is supposedly objective, and 143 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: that disconnect between what it's supposed to be and what 144 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: it actually is. That's where people lose trust, and that 145 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: people have lost trust. I have a rent to go 146 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: off on, but I won't do it until you've headed 147 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: back to your real life. Lone. He but what we've 148 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: lost is not a minor point. It's incredibly important principle 149 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: of journalism. But having said that, I want to circle 150 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: back to the debate for a second. What how do 151 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: you assess A Biden's performance? Um, I thought he was. 152 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: Actually the first hour I thought was very good for him. Overall. 153 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: I thought that he came across. Actually it's pretty cogent, 154 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: more cogent than I than I thought. He saw he 155 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: looked in the first debate. The last half hour was 156 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: it was a hot mess. I think, you know, when 157 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: he started to talk about energy and the oil, get 158 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: rid of oil, the Green New Deal stuff. Uh, some 159 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: of the conversation around North Korea was a little incoherent too. 160 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: So I thought the first hour pretty good. Hold in 161 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: his own last half hour hot mess. Yeah, I wonder 162 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: how many people stuck around for the last half hour. 163 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: Exactly If you go in fifteen minute increments, you know, 164 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: the effect of the first of fifteen minutes is ten 165 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: times the effect of the last fifteen minutes. I think, 166 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: just because of yourship has just because I know you 167 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: you've been involved in campaigns and you've you know, studied 168 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: this sort of thing, you being lan he Chen most 169 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: of the Crossing Lines with Lana Chen podcast. Has there 170 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: ever been a presidential candidate of one of the two 171 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: major parties two weeks out from an election that just 172 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: stayed in the basement all week long? Has that ever happened? Well, 173 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know that there was so called Rose 174 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Guarden strategy that's been run a few times by incub 175 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: in presidents. But usually this is like the stretch run, right. 176 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to be out there. You've got 177 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: to be making your point to the to the voters 178 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: in a pretty aggressive way. And I think there's an 179 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: expectation of that. The fact that Joe Biden doesn't have 180 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: a more active schedule, that he's not out there more. Uh, 181 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, their campaign obviously thinks that is the best 182 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: way for him to be successful, right. They obviously think 183 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: that if he gets out there, if he's out there 184 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: speaking and and and letting people see him, that that's 185 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: going to produce a moment that's going to be a problem. 186 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: And the only reason you keep a guy, that's the 187 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: only reason you keep a guy locked up like that, right. 188 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a guy hit into three oh 189 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: one who takes himself out of the last game of 190 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: the year in baseball. It's chicken Bleepum. What's the rostar strategy? 191 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. Well, I mean, it's it's it's just this 192 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: concept that basically, you know, you you do everything you 193 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: can basically running from the This was more applicable to 194 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: income and president. The idea of being that you use 195 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: the majesty and the pageantry of the White House and 196 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: you basically just stay there and you do events and 197 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: think at the White House, but you don't actually get 198 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: that out there in campaign. The goal of the strategy, 199 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: of course, is to remain in people that you are 200 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: the president, to remind people of things you've done. So 201 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: it's a little bit different than in this situation, right, 202 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: because in this situation it's a guy who's trying to 203 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: become the president, who's the challenger, and it's it's just 204 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: different if you've got him in his basement versus if 205 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: it were Trump, let's say at the White House, and 206 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: then you could say, okay, he's got a road guards, 207 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: right right, Okay, I know, no Harvard Law School graduate 208 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: who bleeds more Dodger Blue than you do. How are 209 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: you feeling? Uh? You know? I mean, look, the ghosts 210 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: of night always still still still are there, and the 211 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: fact that this team has has been in good situations before, 212 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: so I don't like them going out and losing Game two, 213 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: breaking ball coming. It's actually one one signal on the 214 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: trash candle. It not too you see he is hardcore. 215 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. No. So look I'm hopeful. I 216 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: think they've got the more talented team, so I have 217 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: more expensive team the championship. Yeah, they've got a bigger payroll, 218 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: that's for sure. See. My problem is I'm always getting 219 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: the Houston Astros mixed up with Paul Revere, one if 220 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: by Land, etcetera. Lanh Chen, who is the David Diane 221 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: Staffy Fellow in American Public Policy Studies Whoever institution, hosted 222 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: the podcast Crossing Lines with lanha Chen. Lanie, we could 223 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: talk to you all day about this stuff and have 224 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: better things to do than indulge a couple of half wits, 225 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: so we'll let you go. Thanks a million, It's fine. 226 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you against it all right. Thanks man 227 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: farm Strong and jetty. 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