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Speaker 1: In the past, it was get a scholarship because we

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Speaker 1: can't afford to send you to college. Now it almost

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Speaker 1: seems like you'd get a scholarship, so we can say

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Speaker 1: you about one. If you're doing what you enjoy and

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Speaker 1: you wake up every morning and you're excited about it,

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Speaker 1: then you're gonna be great at it. If you're great

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Speaker 1: at it, you're gonna get something out of it and

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Speaker 1: hopefully be able to give back in some capacity or

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Speaker 1: some way because of that. This is the Reformed Sports Project,

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Speaker 1: a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all

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Speaker 1: areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi. This is

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Speaker 1: Nick Bonacoort from the Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining me

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Speaker 1: today is samar Rezem Campbell University's head women's soccer coach

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Speaker 1: and Big South Women's Soccer Coach of the Year. Your

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Speaker 1: experience as an athlete growing up? Did you play other

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Speaker 1: sports beside soccer? And I'm talking specifically thirteen and under. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, my experiences are probably vastly differ rent then

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Speaker 1: a lot of college stretches. I grew up in Nigeria,

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Speaker 1: so my first nineteen years were in Nigeria and the

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Speaker 1: resources I mean there's there's a lot of incredible things

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Speaker 1: about the country, and there's some amazing people. But I

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Speaker 1: would say compared to the United States, compared to England,

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Speaker 1: compared to a lot of European countries, Nigeria didn't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of resources. And so growing up, I was

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Speaker 1: very fortunate enough to go to a school and other

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Speaker 1: resources that I had to be able to develop as

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Speaker 1: an athlete. My father was a basketball coach, and so

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Speaker 1: he really pushed that I'd pick up a number of

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Speaker 1: different sports, so I did. I grew up playing tennis, basketball, volleyball.

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Speaker 1: I actually was a dual athlete in college and it

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Speaker 1: was a great experience, but there wasn't enough Like when

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Speaker 1: we would try and play teams, a lot of times

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Speaker 1: the team wouldn't show up or they didn't have enough

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Speaker 1: money just to literally transport themselves to show up. And

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Speaker 1: the one sport that we had the most fraction with

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Speaker 1: was football starter and that's where you'd be able to

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Speaker 1: get the most teams show up and the most consistency

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Speaker 1: in competing. But I think, you know, my perspective is

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Speaker 1: a little different just because there weren't a lot of

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Speaker 1: resources and there weren't a lot of personnel. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: a lot of structure to things at home, and so

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Speaker 1: it was difficult to develop in a number of different sports.

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Speaker 1: You're now a high level coach, and what do you

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Speaker 1: notice about the culture here from the kids you're seeing?

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Speaker 1: Because one of the biggest things that I really think

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Speaker 1: is important in having young kids myself is I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: the social impacts from the pressure that's being put on

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Speaker 1: a lot of these kids so early. And as you know,

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Speaker 1: when you were younger as a teen and developing and

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Speaker 1: all those things like I was, those are tough times.

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Speaker 1: And now the culture is a little bit different where

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Speaker 1: you have Snapchat and Instagram and all these things. So

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Speaker 1: now we have pressure that's being put on these kids

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Speaker 1: to be these athletes because that's what parents are paying

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars for, and it's causing inadvertent burnout mentally

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Speaker 1: and physically. Have you seen things like that firsthand where

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Speaker 1: you've you've run into kids that you know, I've just

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Speaker 1: kind of had enough earlier than expected. Absolutely. You know,

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Speaker 1: if I'm comparing a youth player in Nigeria and a

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Speaker 1: youth player year, you're looking at someone that's you can

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Speaker 1: and this is not every parent, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: the pants that I see in the United States are

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Speaker 1: already asking. You know, they see that you're a college coach,

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Speaker 1: and their end goal is if I put my kid

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Speaker 1: in this program or on this team, is it going

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Speaker 1: to prepare them to get a college scholarship in eight

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Speaker 1: years or six years or seven years? And that seems

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Speaker 1: to be the end goal. How can we get them

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Speaker 1: playing in college at the highest level, and how early

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Speaker 1: do we have to start. That's been my experience. I

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Speaker 1: coached at a Division to school as well, and my

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Speaker 1: experience there was very, very similar. It was what seems,

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Speaker 1: do we have to place our kids on at the

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Speaker 1: youth level so that they can be politically in the

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Speaker 1: right programs and the right clubs and the right leagues

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Speaker 1: as they moved into their two years so that they

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Speaker 1: can get a college scholarship. And mostly at the Division

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Speaker 1: two level, I saw a lot of kids who were

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Speaker 1: just they were through with it, you know, they finally

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Speaker 1: got to college and after that first year, they're like,

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Speaker 1: it's not worth it. I want to go do other things.

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Speaker 1: At Campbell, I haven't seen that as much, but I

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Speaker 1: have seen kids that don't really developed. It seems like

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Speaker 1: they've missed out on the entire process itself, because once

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Speaker 1: they get to college, they're like, wait, this was the

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Speaker 1: end goal. You know, this was why I played for

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Speaker 1: all those years, and it was to get here. But

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Speaker 1: then they're a little bit lost, and now it's like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: let me win a championship, rather than fully enjoying the

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Speaker 1: entire process and what the process gives them. If I'll

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Speaker 1: look at someone at home, they're just happy to play.

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Speaker 1: They're happy to get a soccer ball, They're happy to

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Speaker 1: have two pairs of police on their feet, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of times kids were lucky enough to play with

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Speaker 1: one shoe, not even a cleek, it was one shoe.

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Speaker 1: And so for them being a part of a team

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Speaker 1: that they could rely on, it was an extended family.

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Speaker 1: It was an opportunity to get away from the stress

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Speaker 1: of financial implications that a lot of people went through.

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Speaker 1: And it was just hey, I'm gonna go and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna release the stress and I'm gonna develop and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna focus on me and I'm gonna focus on how

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Speaker 1: I can be better. And you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: players that I had seen growing up and going through

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Speaker 1: the process of playing youth sports. It was like a getaway.

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Speaker 1: It was something that made them better and it made

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Speaker 1: them here. And yeah, the end goal is just get

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Speaker 1: to college and get a scholarship. That's all that's talked about.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. When I was fourteen, I was on an

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Speaker 1: all star team that went to Cuba and we played

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Speaker 1: two weeks against you know, Cuban teams, and we went

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Speaker 1: down there as the you know, i'm gonna say quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: the well to do Americans, and we weren't well to do,

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Speaker 1: but that's the perception, right. We had the nice equipment

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Speaker 1: and we had this and we went down there and

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Speaker 1: it changed my life. These kids were playing and I

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Speaker 1: swear to God, with holes in their shoes, with ripped gloves,

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Speaker 1: broken back and they beat the heck out of us

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Speaker 1: every game, and it changed my perception. I'm thinking here nowadays,

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Speaker 1: you go to any youth baseball field, kids are walking

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Speaker 1: around with fifteen hundred dollars of equipment and you don't

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Speaker 1: need that stuff. So it kind of ties into what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. And I think that's the culture. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean for the kid? And I think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because everyone talks about scholarship, that's like the end goal. Well,

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Speaker 1: we know because the n c A puts out statistics

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Speaker 1: that only seven percent of high school participating athletes and

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Speaker 1: that's across the board, male, female on average and everything

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Speaker 1: just go on to play in college. That's on level,

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Speaker 1: whether it's D one, D two, D three, son of

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Speaker 1: high school athletes don't even play in college. I guess

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking is the information is out there. Why

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Speaker 1: is it that people are so obsessed with this get

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Speaker 1: to college and play sports for a scholarship when we

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Speaker 1: know statistically only one percent of kids get scholarships one

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Speaker 1: and on average it's less than ten grand. But we've

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Speaker 1: spent maybe exactly what's going into it? Exactly? Is it

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Speaker 1: just America in your eyes? I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: can say that honestly because I don't. I don't know enough.

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Speaker 1: You know, I haven't looked into it enough. I haven't

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Speaker 1: had enough conversation from the outside looking in. What I

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Speaker 1: see is a culture that I mean, there's so many

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Speaker 1: great things, don't get me wrong, but what I see

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Speaker 1: is a culture that is fixated on comparison and comparison

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Speaker 1: by material things and comparison by you know how many

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Speaker 1: likes do I get and did I get more likes

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Speaker 1: than the other person? And I think it goes back

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Speaker 1: to you know, parents and even now youth players are

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Speaker 1: starting to have the same mentality. If my kid has

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Speaker 1: a scholarship, even if financially, I might have spent you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty dollars like you said, and we're only getting five

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Speaker 1: to ten, it really doesn't balance out financially. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the past, it was get a scholarship because we

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Speaker 1: can't afford to send you to college. Now it almost

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Speaker 1: seems like it's like, get a scholarship so we can

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Speaker 1: say you got one. You I was just gonna say,

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Speaker 1: it's a keeping up with the jones of status symbol. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like, let's post the pictures of you

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Speaker 1: wearing the gear, and you know the fact that people

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Speaker 1: are tweeting blessed to have received an offer, no offense,

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Speaker 1: but who cares if you've got an offer. It's where

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Speaker 1: you choose to make your decision. It's where you choose

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Speaker 1: to go, it's where you choose to spend the next

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Speaker 1: four years, and it's what you do with those four years.

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Speaker 1: Getting the offer is barely the work. That's just you know,

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Speaker 1: that's like five percent of it, and people are fixated

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Speaker 1: on posting about that. And you know, for me, if

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Speaker 1: a kid posts that we offered them, I'm taking that

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Speaker 1: offer back because if that's what your goal is, then

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Speaker 1: you're obviously not in it for the right reasons that

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Speaker 1: I think that unfortunately, our society is leaning towards comparing

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Speaker 1: and boasting and getting people to see, look what I have,

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Speaker 1: and we're all forgetting about the process and what that

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Speaker 1: can do and what that can get of us, not

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Speaker 1: all a lot of us. Every person I interview says

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Speaker 1: things a little bit differently, and everyone else I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to was made it to that level. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: if their parents spent a hundred thousand dollars for them

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Speaker 1: to go to private clubs or if they grew up

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Speaker 1: in the projects. They had something in them that was

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Speaker 1: going to make them get there and no one was

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Speaker 1: going to hold them back. And I think that parents

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Speaker 1: and coaches think they can force their will on somebody,

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Speaker 1: and that's not the case. You need to be willing

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Speaker 1: to do the things for yourself. Yeah, agree with that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't focus on what somebody else wants,

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Speaker 1: whether it's your coach, or it's your parents. You can't

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Speaker 1: focus on what somebody else gets that you don't get,

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Speaker 1: you know, like we tell kids that come to our

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Speaker 1: d camps, all that's on, don't compare your process to

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Speaker 1: somebody else. Do this because you can do it because

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Speaker 1: it fits what you're good at, because it fits what

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Speaker 1: you need. But I would even say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you rewind five, six, seven years for some of these kids,

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Speaker 1: and it's play what you want to play, do you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean considering obviously what's easy for your parents. You know,

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Speaker 1: if like ballet is like a five hour drives, maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe not. But do what you enjoy and then be

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Speaker 1: good at that. Because if you're doing what you enjoy

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Speaker 1: in you wake up every morning and you're excited about it,

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Speaker 1: then you're gonna be great at it. If you're great

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Speaker 1: at it, you're gonna get something out of it and

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Speaker 1: hopefully be able to give back in some capacity or

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Speaker 1: some way because of that, whether you're giving back to

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Speaker 1: an underclassman or as a coach later on, or as

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Speaker 1: a mentor whatever capacity you can. That's samarasm had women's

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Speaker 1: soccer coach at Campbell University. When we come back, samar

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Speaker 1: and I will discuss whether the focus on college scholarships

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Speaker 1: has caused a rise of individualism and team sports, and

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Speaker 1: per advice for young athletes who aren't sure whether to

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Speaker 1: be all in on one sport or not. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the Reformed Sports Project podcast where Samar and I

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Speaker 1: left off. We're about to dive into whether some of

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Speaker 1: the current problems in youth sports are created there or

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Speaker 1: at the college level, and whether kids can play multiple

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Speaker 1: reck sports and still have an opportunity to play at

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Speaker 1: the collegiate level. So one thing that you're talking about

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Speaker 1: and I thoroughly believe, is I think that we're all

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Speaker 1: here to be of service to one another, and sports

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Speaker 1: is a great platform to be able to be of service,

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Speaker 1: you know, to give away your experience, to give away

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Speaker 1: your ledge, to be able to help somebody else without

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Speaker 1: expecting anything in return. And I think that message gets

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Speaker 1: lost in the youth sports culture because nowadays, with kids

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Speaker 1: playing year round one sport or travel this, you're playing

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Speaker 1: so many games that if you lose two things number one,

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Speaker 1: you almost seem like you're losing the desire to want

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Speaker 1: to win, like the competition aspect of it, because it's

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Speaker 1: kind of becomes water down and too. It almost seems like,

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Speaker 1: because it's such a driven message that we're trying to

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Speaker 1: get a scholarship, it becomes not about trying to help

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Speaker 1: somebody else or be a good teammate. It's all about individuals.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen going to camps or clinics and seeing

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Speaker 1: kids like there's a lot more selfish play as a result. Potentially, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I see as much selfish play.

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Speaker 1: I think what I actually and this might not be

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Speaker 1: what you're asking, but you've got me thinking about it

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, I don't know if necessarily

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Speaker 1: youth is where the root of the problem is, or

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Speaker 1: college because and maybe it's professionally. I just don't have

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Speaker 1: experiences on the professional realm. But you know, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a lot of money poured into college programs, sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot more than I think we've ever seen before.

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Speaker 1: And that means that we need performers. And because we

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Speaker 1: need performers, they're starting to become pressure on kids to

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Speaker 1: be able to do that or if you can't, you cut,

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Speaker 1: which to an extent I think is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, there has to be a cut through mentality.

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Speaker 1: You can't all week be winners. But I wonder how

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Speaker 1: much of that impact the development process, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I think, like, for example, the development academy and use soccer.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome. I think it provides so many great things.

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Speaker 1: But what you see as college coaches drifting towards the

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Speaker 1: development academy because hey, that's where all the best players

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Speaker 1: are because they're training year round, because they're in a

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Speaker 1: rigorous environment, because it's more demanding, And then there's certain

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Speaker 1: subjectivity to that, and I wonder if, um, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the implications of what you're saying are coming more

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Speaker 1: from the pressure on the top end to get performers

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Speaker 1: quickly in and out. You know, we want this to

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Speaker 1: be quick. We wanted to happen as soon as possible,

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Speaker 1: and um, we're gonna use these kids for what we

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Speaker 1: can use them for, and then we're gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: throw them out. And so I think that trickles down obviously,

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Speaker 1: and then you've got the reverse of that is parents

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Speaker 1: families being like, yeah, here's what we can give you,

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Speaker 1: and now we're famous because of it, or now we're

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Speaker 1: well liked, or now we're popular. I think it kind

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Speaker 1: of comes from both ends. And unfortunately, I do think

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Speaker 1: I do notice that the kids get caught in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the battle between those two. So I spoke

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Speaker 1: with Kevin Euculus, who was a Boston Red sockey won

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Speaker 1: two World Series, and he said, basically, we're taking professional

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Speaker 1: athletes schedules and putting them on young kids. And as

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Speaker 1: we both know, professional athletes are adults or young adults

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Speaker 1: at least at minimum, and it's hard and rigorous for

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Speaker 1: an adult, and professional athletes don't play six baseball games

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Speaker 1: or six soccer games. And why are we doing that

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Speaker 1: with kids? I think it has to do a lot

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Speaker 1: with what you just kind of talked about. It's because

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Speaker 1: it seems like we're using our kids almost as a

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Speaker 1: pawn to make ourselves feel better, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of living vicariously through. Have you seen that impacting some

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Speaker 1: athletes where they're quitting the game, where parents have put

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Speaker 1: so much pressure on that they're quitting earlier and that

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Speaker 1: type of stuff. Yeah, I don't know. If we've just

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Speaker 1: been extremely fortunate we've seen better parents then we've seen

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Speaker 1: those parents. I mean, we have had in the last

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Speaker 1: three four four years, we've had three athletes have meetings

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Speaker 1: with us asking for our playing time and saying they

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Speaker 1: need that playing time. Is that the parents fault or

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Speaker 1: is that a pressure the kid puts on themselves. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but I have seen Unfortunately, I can't I

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Speaker 1: can't answer that. Well, I guess fortunately, but I can't

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Speaker 1: answer that because the kids, by the time they come

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Speaker 1: to us, I've seen incredible parents, and I've been really

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Speaker 1: fortunate to see parents that just support their kids to

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Speaker 1: be happy and to work hard. And maybe it's the

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Speaker 1: type of athlete we recruit. I'm not sure, but I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen the Hey, I want to live through you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe that a kid? Because it seems as

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Speaker 1: though this is what people think, and this is why

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Speaker 1: people are spending money. I've heard parents say it to me.

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Speaker 1: They're very afraid their kids gonna be left behind, so

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Speaker 1: they spend, spend, spend because there's there that they're going

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Speaker 1: to miss out. But you're coming from an environment and

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Speaker 1: a culture where you know it wasn't America and you

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Speaker 1: still made it and played at a very high level.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that kids can still play most able sports,

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Speaker 1: play recreation sports and not be involved in club and

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Speaker 1: still have an opportunity to play at the collegiate level.

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Speaker 1: A collegiate level, yes, I think that with women's soccer specifically,

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Speaker 1: a lot of recruiting happens at the club level, and

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Speaker 1: because I think the way that coaches recruit, a lot

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Speaker 1: of that recruiting happens at the e c n L

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Speaker 1: and the d A levels, which means a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: So I think that it does. Unfortunately, it does limit

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Speaker 1: the amount of exposure and development that a player gets

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Speaker 1: because not a lot of kids sign up for those

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Speaker 1: clubs that aren't E SNI or d a UM, and

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Speaker 1: therefore you're not getting the best coaches, and that's not

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Speaker 1: for everyone. There are definitely clubs that are fantastic and

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Speaker 1: they're so great players that don't play at that level.

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Speaker 1: But I think the chances of playing at a high

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Speaker 1: level usually do, unfortunately go hand in hand, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's why it comes from the top, at least

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Speaker 1: in women's soccer. What would be a message you want

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Speaker 1: to say to a young female soccer player or athlete

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Speaker 1: who may be struggling with you know, pressure, or feeling uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: not sure about whether they want to be all internet

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Speaker 1: they're ten eleven years old and the parents are struggling.

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Speaker 1: What would be your advice for a parent and kid

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Speaker 1: who are good athletes want to play the sport, but

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Speaker 1: there are feeling this pressure. My biggest piece of advice

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Speaker 1: is to enjoy the process, because the process is going

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Speaker 1: to be what allows you to be successful in the future.

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Speaker 1: If you take it in and you live in the

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Speaker 1: moment and you enjoy what you have and are grateful

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Speaker 1: for the opportunity to do what you do, and you're

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Speaker 1: grateful for the losses. You're grateful for the failures because

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Speaker 1: those are going to teach you things. You're grateful for

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Speaker 1: the winds, the success, the relationships, the coaches. Then I

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Speaker 1: think that's going to be what allows you to be

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Speaker 1: successful more than anything. And doing that because you enjoy that,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing. You're the one that's

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Speaker 1: going to have to give up your time and make

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Speaker 1: sacrifices of your time, and a lot of cases your

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Speaker 1: parents might support you and give up their time. So

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Speaker 1: do what you want to do, don't do anything that

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Speaker 1: you think other people want you to do, and don't

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Speaker 1: go through those motions feeling. That's samarasm Head women's soccer

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Speaker 1: coach at Campbell University. Thanks for listening to the Reform

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Speaker 1: Sports Project podcast dom Nick Bonacourt and Our goal is

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Speaker 1: to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas

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Speaker 1: of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow

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Speaker 1: us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our

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Speaker 1: website by searching for the Reform Sports Project