1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Money. We all need it, and we all burned through it. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Money Stuff, a quarterly podcast in partnership with United Way 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: of Greater Atlanta and the sun Trust Foundation, takes a 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: look at our relationship with money and why we do 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: what we do with it. You can also find money 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Stuff videos, choc a block with tips, and you can 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: put critical financial information in the palm of your hand 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: with Money Game to a free app created by the 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: United Way of Greater Atlanta and the sun Trust Foundation 10 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: featuring trivia and fun, easy to understand tools to take 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: your financial education to the next level. Download the Money 12 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast series and The Money Game to app at iTunes. 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: I am Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: have a sad Christmas mystery today and it's one that 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: is a listener west from Lauren, Rachel, Hella, Lizzie and 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: probably other people. Something we've heard people ask for a lot. 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: We are going to talk about five children from the 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: Solder family of West Virginia whose home caught fire on 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve. Their bodies were not recovered and they also 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: were never seen again, so that sounds dreadfully sad. It's 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: actually not as sad as what I had originally been 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: researching for today's episode, and I decided I had to 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: put that one off until after the New Year because 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: it was just too sad to talk about right now, 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: So you all can look forward to something even sadder 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: in January. Uh. In other news, I'm tasty. I'm taking 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: suggestions for happier Christmas E episodes for next Christmas, because 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: I feel like mine for the last couple of years 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: have been extraordinarily sad well, and I am kind of 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: relieved that I'm not the one that picked this. It's 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: kind of been on my list, but I usually am 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: the one that goes for the horrible stories, so it's 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: good to not always be me. It was my turn 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: this time. Well, in the last year, one of my 37 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: picks was the Christmas the Christmas Tree Ship, and that 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: one was also just dreadfully, dreadfully sad for the holidays. 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: You do know how to pick a tear jerker there, 40 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: so to shift gears and go to the more somber story. 41 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: Georgio Saudu was born in Tula, Sardinia in he immigrated 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: to the United States in nineteen o eight. He was 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: only thirteen years old at the time, and he was 44 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: in the company of his older brother. At some point, 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: he changed his name to George Sodder, and the brother 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: who had accompanied him returned to Sardinia. George worked as 47 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: a laborer in Pennsylvania before moving to West Virginia, and 48 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: there he eventually started his own trucking company. He met 49 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: Jenny Cipriani, who would become his wife, at a local 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: music store. Jenny had been born in Italy and had 51 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: come to the United States at the age of three. 52 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: They moved from Smithers to just outside Fayetteville, West Virginia, 53 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: where George focused his business on Haulling Cole. They lived 54 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: in a two story frame house about two mile north 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: of town. George and Jenny Sodder had ten children together. 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,399 Speaker 1: On Christmas Eve, nine of these children were at home 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: with them, the tenth was away in the army. George 58 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: and two of his older sons, the twenty three year 59 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: old John and sixteen year old George Jr. Had all 60 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: gone to bed early. John and George Jr. Had gone 61 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: to bed in their attic bedroom, and George Sr. In 62 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: the parents bedroom next to the office, which was on 63 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: the Holmes ground floor. The daughters Marian aged seventeen, Martha 64 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: Lee aged twelve, Jenny age eight, Betty aged six, and 65 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: sons Maurice age fourteen and Louis aged ten, all asked 66 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: to stay up late. The younger ones wanted to play 67 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: with the toys Marian had bought them from her job 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: at a dime store, and their mother had agreed, telling 69 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: Maurice and Lewis that they had to close the chicken coop, 70 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: feed the cows, and lock up before they all went 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: to bed. Then she went to bed herself, taking the 72 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: baby Sylvia, who was two or three, depending on what 73 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: source you look at, to sleep in the crib in 74 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: her parents room. A little bit after midnight on Christmas Day, 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: Jenny woke up to the phone ringing in the office, 76 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: and so she ran to answer it, and she presumed 77 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: that this was a wrong number or a prank. A 78 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: voice she didn't recognize asked for a name she didn't recognize, 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: and then laughed. While she was awake, she noticed that 80 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: the downstairs lights were still on and the curtains were 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: all still open, and the front door was unlocked, so 82 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: she went to turn all the lights off and close 83 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: up the house for the night. Then she went back 84 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: to bed. Not long after, Jenny woke up again, this 85 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: time after hearing what sounded like something hitting the roof 86 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: and then rolling down. She got up and investigated, but 87 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: found nothing and went back to bed. Maybe another hour later, 88 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: she woke up again, and this time she smelled smoke. 89 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: She woke up George Sr. And they realized that the 90 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: office was on fire. They started calling for their children 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: and trying to get everyone out of the house. They 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: grabbed Sylvia from her crib. Marian had fallen asleep on 93 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: the sofa downstairs and made it out as well. John 94 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: and George Junior came down from their attic room, according 95 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: to an article in the Charleston Gazette Mail. In the 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: initial police report, John and George Junior were described as 97 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: stopping in the younger children's rooms on the way down 98 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: and shaking them all awake, but in later statements they 99 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: said that they called to the other children on the 100 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: way down. Once both parents and Marian, John and George 101 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: Junior got outside, they realized the younger children hadn't made 102 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 1: it out with them. George Senior turned back and found 103 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: that the bottom of the stairs to the upper rooms 104 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: was already in flames, so he went back outside to 105 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: try to get in through the windows. First, he broke 106 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: one of the windows that he could reach, slicing his 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: arm in the process, but the lower level of the 108 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: house was at this point basically engulfed. George normally kept 109 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: a ladder against the side of the house, but when 110 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: he went to get it it was not there. Later 111 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: it was found about seventy five ft away from its 112 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: normal spot, down an embank. Meant then he had the 113 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: idea to park one of his coal trucks beside the 114 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: house and basically use it to climb up to the 115 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: upper windows, but neither of his trucks would start from 116 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: the yard. The rest of the family didn't see any 117 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: sign of the younger children at the windows. Marian ran 118 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: to a neighbor's house to raise the alarm. They tried 119 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: to call the fire department but couldn't get an operator 120 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: to respond, so then they tried calling a local tavern 121 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: and got no answer there either. Finally, the neighbor drove 122 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: into town, remember they lived a couple of miles outside 123 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: of town, to try to find the fire chief. In person, 124 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: which they finally did so in case you have some 125 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: question marks in your head, that would be pretty natural. 126 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: This was actually before the existence of nine one one 127 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: or any other such emergency hotline. The Fayetteville Fire Department 128 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: had no fire siren to summon the firefighters. Instead, an 129 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: operator would contact one of the firemen, who would call 130 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: someone else, who would call someone else in a phone 131 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: tree situation when there was a fire. So not quite 132 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: the efficient system we have today, And based on Fayetteville's 133 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: size and the fact that the fire department is currently 134 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: a volunteer fire department, it was probably a fire department, 135 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: or it was probably a volunteer fire department at the 136 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: time to although I wasn't able to confirm that specifically. 137 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: And almost certainly the department itself was short staffed in 138 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: the wake of World War Two, so there were lots 139 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: of mitigating factors in the fire department's response, but ultimately 140 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: they were still unbelievably late. The neighbor trekdown Chief F. J. 141 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: Morris of the Fayetteville Fire Department around one in the 142 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: morning Christmas Day. The fire truck arrived at the sold 143 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: home almost seven hours later. By then, of course, the 144 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: building was destroyed, with all of its remaining structural elements 145 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: collapsing into the basement that had taken only about thirty 146 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: or forty minutes. On Christmas morning, the fire department conducted 147 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: a brief search, expecting to find the bodies of several 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: children in the rubble, and instead they reported finding only 149 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: a few bones and pieces of internal organs. But they 150 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: told the parents that they had not found anything. The 151 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: fire chief told them that the bones of their children 152 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: had probably burned to ash in the fire. Since it 153 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: was Christmas Day, they postponed a more in depth search 154 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: for later. The AP wire carried a very brief report 155 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: of the fire, which The New York Times ran on 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: the twenty six under the headline Eleven children die in 157 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: four home fires. Five parish in West Virginia, three in Pennsylvania, 158 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: two in Kansas, one in New York. It's heartbreaking in 159 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: its simplicity. To quote from it. The victims, ranging an 160 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: age from six to fifteen years, were trapped on the 161 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: top floor of their home, despite the frantic efforts of 162 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: their parents and other brothers and sisters to rescue them. 163 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: A state police inspector ultimately declared that Faulty wiring had 164 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: caused the blaze. The coroner convened a jury of six citizens, 165 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: which found the cause of the children's deaths to be 166 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: quote fire or suffocation. In On December twenty nine, George 167 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: Solder bulldozed a few feet of soil over the remains 168 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: of the house, burying what he believed to be the 169 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: bodies of his children in a mass grave. The surviving 170 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: family planted flowers. They're basically turning it into a shrine 171 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: for Maurice, Martha, Lee, Louis, Jenny, and Betty. Their mother. 172 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: Jenny would wear only black for the rest of her life. 173 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: Almost immediately though, the family developed doubts and suspicions about 174 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: what had happened in the fire, and we will talk 175 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: about them after a brief break. For a word from 176 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: a sponsor. We've talked about before that it's exhausting sometimes 177 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the workday to even contemplate having 178 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: to go to the store and pick up ingredients to 179 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: make a meal. We will go to great lengths at 180 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: my house to avoid doing exactly that. I have that 181 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: thing where if I'm on my way home from work, 182 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm so tired that any extraneous stop just makes me 183 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: red rage angry. I'm like, no, I want to go 184 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: home and put on comfort clothes and sit. I do 185 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: not want to go to the grocery store, but I 186 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: do want something super delicious to eat. And that is 187 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: where Blue Apron comes in. They can deliver farm fresh 188 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: ingredients and step by step recipes to your home. That's 189 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: going to enable you to create healthy, handcrafted meals right 190 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: there in your own kitchen, without going to the grocery 191 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: store and without making the often terrible mistake of ordering takeout, 192 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: which is a very slippery slope for me. Uh So, 193 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: for less than ten dollars per meal, Blue Apron will 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: send you fresh ingredients. They're perfectly proportioned. They make cooking 195 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: healthy meals really easy and really fun, so you don't 196 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: have to mess with the grocery store trip, and you're 197 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: not going to have waste from unused ingredients sitting there 198 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: becoming progressively more horrifying in your refrigerator. And you will 199 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: learn to cook with these specialty ingredients that are normally 200 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: really hard to find. I've said before, I feel like 201 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm getting great cooking instruction every time I make a meal. Definitely, 202 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: it's great for date night It's great for cooking with friends. 203 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: If you have a family. They have family plans now 204 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: with kid friendly ingredients, so everyone can cook together and 205 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: eat really well and have fun. It's a great way 206 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: to kind of teach kids about nutrition, and I like 207 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: that each meal is only about five D seven hundred 208 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: calories per serving, but I still push away from the 209 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: table completely full and satisfied. Often if you're in a 210 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: local aorina in the food zone, it's not so satisfying 211 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: at the end, but that is not the case with 212 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Blue Apron. Cooking takes about half an hour to forty 213 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: five minutes if you're me again, because I'm probably yapping 214 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: while I'm cooking. Shipping is flexible and free, and the 215 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: menus are always new, so you're not going to get 216 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: the same thing twice, and they will work around your 217 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: schedule so as well as your dietary preferences, and their 218 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: experts are picking really beautiful seasonal ingredients that just end 219 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: up in making the most delicious and really sort of 220 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: mind blowing dishes on the upcoming menu. I got instant 221 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: drool when I saw spinach, parmesan and parsnip risotto. It 222 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,599 Speaker 1: looks so creamy and delicious. What are you eyeballing? I 223 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: am eyebawling the spiced roast chicken and collared greens with 224 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: maple butter and thyme. I always thought that I did 225 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: not like collared greens because I did not like the 226 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: way that my mother prepared them. But we've had several 227 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: Blue Apron recipes with collards that I have skeptically tried, 228 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: and having learned three or four different ways to incorporate 229 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: collards and two dishes, I am a convert now. I 230 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: no longer just say I hate collards. I won't eat them. Yeah, 231 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: I will say even foods that I normally am like 232 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: not so much, if it comes in a Blue Apron 233 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: uh meal, I'll be like, I'll try it, And every 234 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: time I'm always like, oh, this is good. I just 235 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: didn't I just didn't know how to do it right. 236 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: You just didn't know, or I just have not had 237 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: it this way. That is super delicious. So you two 238 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: can cook incredible meals, trying new things that you may 239 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: have thought you didn't like, but you're probably gonna like them. 240 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: In a Blue Apron dish, You're gonna be blown away 241 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: by the quality and freshness. It's just a better way 242 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: to cook. Check out this week's menu and get your 243 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: first two meals for free by going to blue apron 244 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: dot com slash history. That is correct, It is our treat. 245 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: The first two meals are on us when you go 246 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: to blue apron dot com slash history. In the days 247 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: after the fire, the surviving members of the family gradually 248 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: started to put together a pad earn of strange events 249 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: that they remembered from the days before it. A passer 250 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: by had looked at their fuse box and said it 251 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: would burn the house down, and an insurance agent, when 252 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: George refused to buy a policy from him, had gotten 253 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: angry and said something threatening along the lines of your 254 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: house will burn to the ground. The children also later 255 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: recalled that they'd seen someone in a truck watching them 256 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: come home from school one day. Mrs Sodder also didn't 257 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: believe what she had been told about her children's skeletons 258 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: being burned up to ash in the fire, so she 259 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: started doing experiments where she would burn things like chicken 260 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: bones and beef joints that were left over from cooking 261 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: in their woodstove, and she always, as you would expect, 262 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: how bones left over afterward. The family also wondered if 263 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: the fire was caused because of faulty wiring, why had 264 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: the lights in the house worked as they fled. They 265 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: had turned them off before bed, but as they were 266 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: leaving and trying to run out of the house, they 267 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: had turned them back on it. That's one of the 268 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: things they were really insistent about when when interviewed later 269 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: on in their lives, was like, they would not have 270 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: been able to find their way out if the lights 271 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: hadn't worked. The wiring was on fire, why did the 272 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: lights still work? Also, when a repairman came out to 273 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: restore the telephone line that had been destroyed in the fire, 274 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: he told the sadders that it looked like it had 275 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: been cut, not burned, and the cut was only about 276 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: two ft from the pole. Tied to the cut phone 277 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: wire was a report that someone had witnessed a man 278 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: stealing a block and tackle from the solder's garage that night. 279 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: That man later confessed to cutting the telephone wire, saying 280 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: that he thought they were power lines. He denied knowing 281 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: anything about the fire. This whole story is a little like, oh, 282 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: you only meant to cut the power. There's a lot 283 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: of his story it doesn't quite make sense. While playing 284 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: one day near the side of the fire, Sylvia found 285 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: a hard rubber object that was hollow and had a 286 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: cap that screwed off a bit, and George concluded that 287 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: this was a napalm bomb and that it was what 288 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: Jenny had heard hit the and rolled down in the 289 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: middle of the night before the fire, so he concluded 290 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: that that was how the fire had started, and to 291 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: kind of corroborate that there was a bus driver that 292 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: also reported seeing someone lobbing quote balls of fire at 293 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: the solder's roof on the night of the fire. Then 294 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: there were reports that people had actually seen the Sodder children. 295 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: A woman at a tourist stop between Fayetteville and Charleston, 296 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: West Virginia, told police that she had served them breakfast 297 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: after the fire. A woman working at a hotel in 298 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: Charleston gave a statement to police that she had seen 299 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: four of the five children there a week after Christmas. 300 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: She said they've been accompanied by four adults, to women, 301 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: and two men whose demeanor was frosty and hostile. George 302 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and his wife Jenny wrote to the FBI in n 303 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: asking for help finding their missing children. J Edgar Hoover 304 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: wrote the couple of reply, effectively saying that this was 305 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: not with the FBI's jurisdiction. However, he did offer to 306 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: assist local fire and police if desired, but the local 307 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: officials declined that offer. The Solders continued to write to 308 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: the FBI for help every couple of years. Also in 309 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: nine seven, George Solder saw a picture of school children 310 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,479 Speaker 1: in New York in a newspaper, and he became completely 311 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: convinced that one of the children in that picture was 312 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: his daughter Betty. He drove to Manhattan demanding to see her, 313 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: but was refused. However, George and Jenny Sawder became completely 314 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: convinced that their children were in fact alive, even if 315 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: that one that looked like Betty in the picture was 316 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: not really their child. They hired a long series of 317 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: private investigators, starting with CC Tinsley, who unearthed a couple 318 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: of odd connections. One was that that threatening insurance agent 319 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: had also been part of the coroner's jury. Another tidbit 320 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: that Tinsley discovered was that fire Chief Morris, who had 321 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: told the Sawders obviously that he had found no remains 322 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: of their children in the ruins of the house, had 323 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 1: confided to a minister that he had in reality found 324 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: a heart, put it in a dynamite box and buried it. 325 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: They dug up this box and took it to a 326 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: funeral home, and the funeral director said that it looked 327 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: to him like a fresh beef liver, not something that 328 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: had been in a fire. This, of course started rumors 329 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: that the fire chief had gotten a beef liver and 330 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: buried it in a box very recently, with the hopes 331 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: of getting the solders to stop their investigation, the conclusion 332 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: being that he wanted it to end because he had 333 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: something to hind. It was really at this point, with 334 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: the weird box and the series of detectives and this 335 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: ongoing search that newspapers around the country started to pick 336 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: up this story. That meant that then tips started to 337 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: come in from all over, but none of them panned out. 338 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: George Sodder dedicated a lot of the rest of his 339 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: life to traveling all around the United States to search 340 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: for his missing children. Following up on all these scattered leads, 341 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: the family started another investigation of the site itself in 342 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: August of nineteen forty nine, this time with the help 343 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: of Oscar B. Hunter, a pathologist from Washington, d c. 344 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: He found, among other things, a few pieces of vertebrae, 345 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: which he sent to the Smithsonian Institution for analysis. According 346 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: to their report, the vertebrae were all from the same person, 347 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: and based on their development, they probably belonged to a 348 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: sixteen or seventeen year old boy. The oldest Sawder son 349 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: unaccounted for after the fire, was younger than that. In 350 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: the words of the Smithsonian report, it is, however, possible, 351 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: although not probable, for a boy fourteen and a half 352 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: years old to show sixteen to seventeen maturation. The report 353 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: also said that one would have expected to find complete 354 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: skeletons of all the children given the conditions of the fire. 355 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: The Smithsonian's involvement wound up leading to hearings in the 356 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: West Virginia capital of Child Austin. The governor and the 357 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: superintendent of the state police told the Sadders that this 358 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: case was hopeless, and they declared it closed. In nineteen 359 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: fifty two. The Sawders put up a billboard displayed pictures 360 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: of their five missing children, and it was low to 361 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: the ground so that if you walked over to read it, 362 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: the pictures were at eye level. It read, quote, what 363 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: was their fate kidnapped, murdered or are they still alive? 364 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: And it offered a five thousand dollar reward and gave 365 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: additional information about the fire and the children. Eventually that 366 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: reward was increased to ten thousand dollars and they passed 367 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: out flyers with all of this same information as well. 368 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: George continued to travel to personally investigate tips that the 369 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: family got. He looked into the idea that Martha was 370 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: in a convent in St. Louis, that someone had overheard 371 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: a conversation about the fire before it happened, that a 372 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: distant relative of his wife, Jenny's, had the children, That 373 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: a woman had overheard a drunk man in a Mexican 374 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: border town telling someone else the story of his true identity. 375 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: It went on and on and on. In response to 376 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: that last one, George did track down the woman who 377 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: wrote the letter, although she was not willing to talk 378 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: to him. He found the men she had described, though, 379 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: and they told him they wished they could help, but 380 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 1: that he had the wrong people. He apparently doubted for 381 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: the rest of his life that that that that they 382 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: were being honest, and when wished he had stayed and 383 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: pressed them further with his questions. Jenny received an envelope 384 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: with a Central City, Kentucky postmark in night and and 385 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: it was a picture with a cryptic note that included 386 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: the name Louis Sodder and some strange number and letter 387 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: numbers and letters. Also written on it was I love 388 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: brother Frankie, But none of those Soider children were named 389 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: Frankie or frank To all the surviving family, the man 390 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: shown in this picture did look like a grown version 391 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: of Louis, who had been nine years old at the 392 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: time of the fire. The private investigator that they sent 393 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: to Kentucky to investigate never got back in touch with them. 394 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: After receiving this cryptic letter, they revised their billboard, adding 395 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: in the picture that purported to be of the grown 396 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: up Louis with new text that said, after thirty years, 397 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: it is not too late to investigate. On Christmas Eve, 398 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: our home was set a fire and five of our children, 399 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: ages five through fourteen, kidnapped. The officials blamed defective wiring, 400 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: although lights were still burning after the fire started. The 401 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: official reports stated that the children died in the fire. However, 402 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: no bones were found in the residue and there was 403 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: no smell of burning flesh. During or after the fire? 404 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: What was the motive of law officers involved? What did 405 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: they have to gain by making us suffer all these 406 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: years of injustice? Why did they lie and force us 407 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: to accept those lies? In nineteen sixty nine, George Solder died. Afterward, 408 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: Jenny Sawder put up a sturdy fence around her home 409 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: and then started adding to it. In an ex Smithsonian 410 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: Magazine describes as quote, building layer after layer between her 411 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: and the outside. The billboard remained until Jenny died about 412 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: twenty years after her husband. And now we're gonna talk 413 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: about some theories for what happened, but before we do that, 414 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: we will have another brief word from sponsor. We've said 415 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: so many times we're a little terrified. The holidays are 416 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: almost here. We still have so much to do, so 417 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: that means we do not have time to go to 418 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: the post office. There's the traffic, the parking for my 419 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: case when i'm at home, the walking a long way 420 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: loaded down with packages. So instead, you can use stamps 421 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 1: dot Com. With stamps dot com, you can avoid all 422 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: the hassle of going to the post office during the 423 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: busy holiday season because everything that you would do at 424 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: the post office you can instead do right from your desk. 425 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: You can buy and print official US postage using your 426 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: own computer and printer. You can print postage for any 427 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: letter or package the instant you need it, and then 428 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: just hand it off to the person who delivers your mail. 429 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: It's very easy and convenient. Right now, you can sign 430 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: up for stamps dot com and use our promo code 431 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: stuff for this special offer that includes a four week 432 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: trial plus a one dollar bonus offer that includes a 433 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: digital scale and postage. So don't wait. Go to stamps 434 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: dot com and before you do anything else, click on 435 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: the microphone at the top of the homepage and type 436 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: in stuff that stamps dot com enter stuff. So to 437 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: get back to the story, there are so many unanswered 438 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: questions about this fire. The big one why were there 439 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: no bodies found, especially considering that there were plenty of 440 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: other structural pieces and damaged household items after the fire 441 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: was over. Why did it take seven hours for the 442 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: fire department to get there even with that whole phone 443 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: tree situation. It was actually one article that suggested that 444 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: the fire chief was not capable of driving the fire 445 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: truck for some reason and had to wait for somebody 446 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: who could. But why would that take seven hours? And 447 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: where did the vertebrae come from? One theory is that 448 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: they were in the fielder that George used to bury 449 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: the remains of the home, But if so, who's were they. 450 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: The bone fragments analyzed by the Smithsonian have since disappeared, 451 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: so they can't be further analyzed for DNA. Why was 452 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: the latter that was normally propped by the house not there, 453 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: especially since George insisted that was where it always was, 454 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: that's where he kept it. Why would the coal trucks 455 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: not start? George's answer to that one became that somebody 456 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: had tampered with them on purpose, although descendants of the 457 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: surviving children have theorized that he might have flooded their 458 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: engines in his case, in his haste to try to 459 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: get them moving. And if the children had been trapped 460 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: in their rooms at the top of the house, why 461 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: couldn't the survivors outside see them at the windows? An 462 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: obvious answer is that they had already succumbed to smoke, 463 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: an elation, and another theory, according to fire Marshal sterling 464 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: Lewis interviewed by NPR, when children reached the age of 465 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen. They generally try to escape a fire, 466 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: but younger children usually try to hide. He told very 467 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: sad stories about finding the bodies of children curled up 468 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: in strange places because they rather than trying to get out, 469 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: they tried to hide from the fire. So then the 470 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: question becomes, if they were not in the house when 471 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: it burned down, if they were still alive, why did 472 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: they never contact their parents even once they were grown. 473 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: One theory is that for some reason, doing so would 474 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: have put their parents lives at risk. Well, and we 475 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: don't know if one of them did, since there was 476 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: that weird cryptic letter, but it's super cryptic. There are 477 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: so many theories for what happened to the Solder children. 478 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: The first and most obvious is that they really did 479 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: die in the fire, although that does not account for 480 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: why no one found their remains, and all the other 481 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: theories are basically entirely speculative. Some of them kind of 482 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: feel like they're pulled out of thin air. One such 483 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: notion is that the mafia had tried to recruit the 484 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: solders and the solders had refused, which led to the 485 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: kidnapping of their children his retaliation Local law enforcement. On 486 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: the other hand have said that there was no known 487 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: mafia activity in that part of West Virginia at the time. 488 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: Another theory is that this was all some sort of conspiracy, 489 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: and that someone known to the family played a part 490 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: kidnapping the children by claiming they were going to take 491 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: them somewhere safe. Sylvia, who was just a toddler at 492 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: the time of the fire and whose youngest memories are 493 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: of that night, told NPR in two thousand and five 494 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: that she wanted people to uphold her parents dream of 495 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: keeping the story alive. She was still living as and 496 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: as at that point, she, her husband, and their daughter 497 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: all steadfastly believed that her siblings did not die in 498 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: that fire. Remains a mystery. It does. I don't know 499 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: what I think about this, Yeah, me either. I mean, 500 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: there's always the Occam's razor thing, and you're like, well, 501 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: the most likely, but there's so much weirdness around it 502 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: that right when I started researching it and knew very 503 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: little about the fact about it. Besides the house burned down, 504 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: there was a billboard, there's a sort of the two 505 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: fat that I need. I thought most likely that they 506 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: had died in the fire, and it was a terrible tragedy, 507 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: and like, it just seems totally logical to me that 508 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,719 Speaker 1: a grieving family would latch onto the idea that they 509 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: were still living and spend the rest of their lives 510 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: looking for it. But then once we got into like, seriously, 511 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: where were the but I couldn't find any reasonable scientific 512 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: explanation for how bodies would not have been recovered if 513 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: they had really been there. Uh, And then the whole 514 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: rest of it became so weird that now I sort 515 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: of think maybe they weren't in the house when it 516 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: burned down. But then I had no idea. Yeah, the 517 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: part where it always turns for me where I'm like, 518 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: something fishy happened is the beef liver that's allegedly a 519 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: human heart. Yeah, it's like that's a really dicey behavior. Yeah, 520 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: with no explanation unless he knew more than more than 521 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: he was saying, we don't know. It's all speculative. Yeah. 522 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: Do you have a peppier listener mail to get us 523 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: off of the sad loss of people? Is it Peppier? Okay, 524 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: it's not not peppy, it's not super cheery. It's from 525 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: Adrian and it is about our recent episode on the 526 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: Gallipoli campaign, and Adrian says, Dear Tracy and Holly, I'm 527 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: a recent, albeit avid listener of your podcast, so firstly, 528 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: thank you for all your great work. I wanted to 529 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: write in after your recent episode on the Glippoli campaign. 530 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: I must admit that as an Australian I almost couldn't 531 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: bear to listen to anything more on Glippoli after what 532 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: felt like years of studying Glippoli throughout high school and 533 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: the constant invocations of it around Anzac Day. This is 534 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: not a criticism that I didn't miss this in history class. 535 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: It was only after high school that I realized that 536 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: not everyone in the world knew every detail or cared 537 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: as much about the campaign as we Australians do. Nevertheless, 538 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: I was keen to hear a foreign perspective and I 539 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: wanted to say I thought you guys did a great 540 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: job covering the campaign and the limited time you have. 541 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: I especially commend you for mentioning some of the criticism 542 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: surrounding Glippoli and Anzac in general. In that regard, I 543 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: found it interesting that you used the word Anzac myth 544 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: rather than the more common usage of Anzac legend. While 545 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: there may be only minor semantic differences. I think that 546 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: myth implies more falsity than legend. Throughout high school, I 547 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: was never taught that the values attributed to Anzac troops 548 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: for the result of selective and embellished accounts of journalists 549 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: like C. W. Being of Ellis Ashman, Barlott, or simply 550 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: concocted I e. A myth. In fact, I don't think 551 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: that you emphasize just how significant the Anzac legend born 552 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: in Gallipoli is in Australian culture. The word Anzac is 553 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: even protected by legislation and people must get permission to 554 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: use it. While in university we student we history students 555 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: do question elements of Anzac. Outside of university, criticizing an 556 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: Zac can be considered tantamount to blasphemy, people who have 557 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: even lost their jobs over public criticism around the centenary. Here, 558 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: there was also a huge backlash over brands capitalizing on 559 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Anzac or quote brand Zach to sell products indicating the 560 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: sacred nature of our national narrative, or as historian King 561 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: English calls it, our civil religion. The reasons behind the 562 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: importance of Anzac are a complex mix of political, historical, 563 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: and social elements that I could go on about it 564 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: for days, or I'll stop myself and concluded by saying, 565 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: thank you for covering this part of Australian history, and 566 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: then she sent some suggestions for some other Australian history. 567 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Adrian. I wanted to read this 568 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: email today for a couple of reasons. One is that 569 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure where in my research process I 570 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: picked up the term and zach math. I'm not sure 571 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: if one of my sources use it or if it 572 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: just stuck in my head that way rather than legend. 573 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: But when I did look into this after Adrian's email, 574 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: I did find that legend was a lot more common 575 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: in various sites than myth was. And the other is 576 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: that we had several people to write in to talk 577 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: about how anzac and zach is basically protected as a term. Uh, 578 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: and they're like, when you make an zach biscuits, there's 579 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: only one rest p that you can sell as am 580 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: Zac biscuits. There's just a lot of sort of protecting 581 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: this this term and how it is used within Australia. 582 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: So thank you so much Adrian for writing to us 583 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: about this. It also cracked me up that she she 584 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: clarified that it was not a criticism that she didn't 585 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: miss this in history class because we hear that joke 586 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: like five hundred times a day. Delighted me that that 587 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: Adrian was sort of like specifically like, I'm not saying 588 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: that that thing that you hear three hundred times a day. 589 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: So anyway, thank you Adrian for writing to us. If 590 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us about this or 591 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: any other podcast, we're at History Podcasts that how Stuff 592 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at Facebook dot 593 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: com slash miss in history and on Twitter at miss 594 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: in History. Our tumbler is missed in History dot tumbler 595 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: dot com and ron Pinterest at pinterest dot com slash 596 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: missed in History. If you would like to learn a 597 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: little more about something similar to what we've talked about today, 598 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: he can come to our parent company's website, It is 599 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. Put the word unsolved in 600 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: the search bar and you will find a whole quiz 601 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: about the serious unsolved mysteries throughout history. If you would 602 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: like to come to our website, we were at mt 603 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: in history dot com and we have show notes for 604 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 1: all of the podcasts. Holly and I have worked on. 605 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: We have an archive of all episodes we have done ever, 606 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: so you can do all of that and a whole 607 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: lot more at how stuff works dot com or history 608 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 609 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: isn't how stuff works dot com.