1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 2: I want my stuff. I never told you a protection 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: of Iyheart Radio. Today we are bringing back a classic 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: on boundaries. I think since we did this episode, we've 5 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: had a lot of other conversations around boundaries. I've talked 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: to some about my struggles around knowing the healthy boundary, 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: and I'm still dealing with that. But when it comes 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: to holidays and now we're in the new year, I 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: feel like it's something that I've been thinking about a 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: lot because I'm just hanging out more than I normally do, 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 2: which is good. It's all been great, but it's been 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: a question on my mind of like, do you really 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: want to do this? And then I get I feel 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: bad about asking myself if I really want to do it, 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: even though I shouldn't. But this question of setting healthy 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: boundaries is one I've been thinking out thinking about in 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: the new year. 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 3: Because I cannot quite remember. I can't do dates, y'all really, well, 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: was this pre COVID pandemic or a COVID shutdown? 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: I don't I think this was after. 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 3: Okay, because I just remember we had a conversation about 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 3: you trying to say no yes, and it was about 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 3: setting boundaries and learning to say no. So I'm trying 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 3: to remember if that was that one. 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm excited. Let's go, Yes, Please enjoy this classic episode. 26 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: Steffan never told you prodection of iHeartRadio. 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 3: Okay, Annie, for today's episode, I have a pretty big 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: generic question, but you know, we'll see how well you do. 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: So on average, how often do you think you've actually 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: said no or declined a request in your adult life? 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: On average? 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: On average? 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: I think it's shifted recently because of the pandemic, but 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: before that. 36 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: Not often been at all. 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: And even now, like during the pandemic, I'm still pretty bad. 38 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: But I have gotten better because I have a pretty 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: good reason, right. I had a friend, a good friend 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: of ours, once told me like, you don't have to 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: even respond because a non response equals no, And I 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: was like, but that's so rude. 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: So I can't even do that. I have to say 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: yes or no. 45 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 3: Oh that's my go to is just to not respond. 46 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: Not now, I know, I'd like. 47 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: I'm not there. I'm like I don't know, I don't 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: know what's happening. Oh no, And then like. 49 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: The next day you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. If I if I know you all 51 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: love and I can say no to you, like if 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: you can handle a note, then I say no. But 53 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: if you people, I've had people who like pressure me 54 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 3: and talk you into it and won't take that, so 55 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: I just don't respond sometimes. 56 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, if I say no, and then you're you trying 57 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: to convince me now during the pandemic, I will say, 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: then I just won't respond anymore. Right, But before then 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: I could be convinced. I could be pretty easily convinced. 60 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 61 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what, You're not the only one. 62 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: And we're going to talk a little bit about all 63 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: of that, including the fact that we do need to 64 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 3: perspect other people's nos, which is sometimes hard for me. 65 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 3: I'm one of those people like I really feel like 66 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: I can't read sometimes whether you're saying no just because 67 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: you feel like you can't do it versus you actually 68 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: don't want to do it like that, those are the 69 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: trade differences. But you know, with all the everyday stress, 70 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: there's been a lot thrown at us recently, and it 71 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: seems like so much, so much in the past few years, 72 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: and for some of us we have really grown into 73 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: setting some boundaries again, like I just may not respond 74 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: to you, and you have done really well because you've 75 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 3: decided that you actually like your alone time, maybe a 76 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: little too much sometimes, But for others it's actually gotten worse, 77 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: especially when it comes to people trying to change the 78 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: state of the world. There's been so much that's happening, 79 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: and there's been so much honestly just scary moments where 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: we're like everything's about to be the worst. So to 81 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 3: that end, we feel like we have to do even 82 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 3: more and definitely can't slow down. But there's no denying 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: setting of boundaries is at an actual talent, and there's 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: some who are really good at it and then some 85 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: who are not, yeah, and who are still learning. Right, 86 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: And of course we had to take a minute and 87 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: research if there was a difference based on gender. And 88 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: again so just to note a lot of the studies, 89 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 3: though some more recent, are typically done from a cis 90 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: hetero perspective, so it's not as intersectional when it comes 91 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 3: to like the queer community or any of that. So again, 92 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 3: we would like, we would like that to be not 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: so much the case, but unfortunately we can't always get that. 94 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 3: But again, this is information that is good to know 95 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 3: on a personal level, and we are going to hit 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: that intersectional marks we are going to talk about when 97 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 3: it comes to the bipop community as well, But just 98 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 3: for the perspective, this is on a very personal level, 99 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: so very individualistic, I. 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: Guess, yeah, yeah, And I know we're going to discuss 101 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: this later, but I feel like this is one of 102 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: those topics that often gets wrapped up in sort of 103 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: the like catchy, very heteronormative magazine titles that are like. 104 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: Here's how you set boundaries with your men? 105 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: Yes, And there's so many of those, Like we had 106 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 3: to we through all of the Cosmo articles, which is 107 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with that if they are evidence based, 108 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 3: you do you, but you know to the point that, like, 109 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: this is not what we're looking at necessarily to better 110 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 3: set boundaries to catch a man, right, right. 111 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot to say about that, but we better 112 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: get in this verse, all right, and let's get started 113 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: with the definition. According to Miriam Webster, boundaries are defined 114 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: as something that indicates or fixes a limit or extent. 115 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: But a better definition of what we're talking about is 116 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: boundaries as quote an expression of inner authority. And that's 117 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: according to Bethanywebster dot com, and it continues saying boundaries 118 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: are a function of how much you are in tune 119 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: with yourself, how much you value yourself, and where and 120 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: with whom you choose to invest your energy. Boundaries are 121 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: often a battle people choose to not take on easier 122 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: to please people rather than dealing with the conflict of 123 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: saying no. Or it could be what author doctor Kristen 124 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: Lee of Psychology Today writes, quote, it signifies a deeper 125 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: value set. If you're the type that always wants to 126 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: be there for people you care about, it's because you 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: value relationships. If you're the one at work who says 128 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: yes to every project, it reflects how much you value learning. 129 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: But when we only say yes, we might be missing 130 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: chances to invest your time and energy in ways that 131 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 2: help us take or values and goals to new levels. 132 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: And it can affect women and those in marginalized communities differently. 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: Right, And we're gonna talk a little bit about that 134 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: in a minute, But first, here's some reasons why people 135 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: may not stick to boundaries, and it includes perfectionism kind 136 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 3: of what we're talking about not wanting to let anyone 137 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: down or wanting to be seen as the person who 138 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: can do everything in anything, And yes, I don't want 139 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: people to see me being weak. So therefore I'm like, yeah, 140 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: of course I know how to do that. What what 141 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: does that mean? 142 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: You know? 143 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: Just then there's fomo, or the fear of missing out. 144 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: Don't want to be left out or if you miss 145 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 3: something or you get excluded the next time around, which 146 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: was a big fear as an introvert. I'm like, oh, no, 147 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: I don't want to go out, but they're gonna not 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 3: invite me anymore. That's even worse. But on top of yes, 149 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: there I have friends who absolutely will not say no 150 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: because they're afraid they're going to miss out on something 151 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: significant and then they're going to miss out on the 152 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: converse later to come. So you do do you have fomo? 153 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: I do have fomo. I think we've talked about this before. 154 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: I have both fomo. But also like I'm I'm a 155 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: queen at avoidance and going out or doing something is 156 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: the best way for me, not in a good way, 157 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: not in a healthy way, but the best way for 158 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: me to continue my unhealthy habit. 159 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: Of avoiding whatever it is. 160 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: Right, So they kind of both come together in a 161 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 2: real unnatural way. 162 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: It's not good. 163 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: Yes, I know a lot of people who do that 164 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: because being alone means you have to think about things. Yeah, 165 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: maybe it's based on your personality. You know what I'm 166 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: talking about. Are you an INFJ, Well, maybe you have 167 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: a hard time in settling a limits or if you're 168 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 3: an I NFP, you are the example we need to 169 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 3: look toward as someone who does who is good at 170 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: setting boundaries and if they try to force you into something, 171 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: you're like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. So there's this 172 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: whole article if you want to go look at it. 173 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: It's at personalitygrowth dot com titled how each personality type 174 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 3: handles boundaries and yeah, if you want to know and 175 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: if you know your Myers Briggs personality type, this may 176 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: tell you what kind of boundaries or lack of boundaries 177 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: you have, just so you know or perhaps not being 178 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: able to differentiate between the emotion of saying no because 179 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 3: you feel like you're rejecting someone or turning someone down 180 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 3: or they're rejecting you, and the rationality of knowing your limits. 181 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: So aka, you're the people pleaser. The same kind of 182 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: perspective of being the perfectionist. But you are scared to 183 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: tell them no because that means they feel rejected, and you, 184 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: of course have to spare their feelings, and you can't 185 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: say no, and say no means it hurts their feelings, 186 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 3: which is not typically true, although sometimes people do feel 187 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: that way. Because I feel like that a lot, because 188 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: I have a fear of rejection. That's a whole different conversation. 189 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: Of course, there could be more than just these reasons 190 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: in there are, but we just wanted to give kind 191 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: of a few examples of why this could be a problem. 192 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: But let's talk about the deeper meanings. 193 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: Yes. 194 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: According to one Setty, when it comes to setting boundaries, 195 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: oftentimes those who are perceived as less powerful have a 196 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: harder time in setting them. In a twenty nineteen article 197 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: in The Swaddle titled how Society makes it Difficult for 198 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: women at minorities to set emotional boundaries, Sadaf Venda talks 199 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: about the difficulties of women in marginalized communities saying no. 200 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: They write setting boundaries as to where the self ends 201 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: and where other people begin. Navigating relationships with this bounce 202 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: in mind and saying no when necessary is a difficult task, 203 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: especially for women and people from marginalized communities. They continue 204 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: on about the difference due to culture, gender, and societal 205 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 2: expectations and how these differences can lead to different levels 206 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: of philosophy when it comes to individualism and collectivism, and 207 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: how that can impact a person's boundaries. For example, when 208 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: it comes to family, different cultures would dictate absolute loyalty 209 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: to the detriment of an individual and would have a 210 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: harder time in setting limits because of that. 211 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: Right and related to that is a concept known as 212 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 3: quote differentiation of self, which was originated by family therapist 213 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 3: Murray Bowen. It is described as a quote. A level 214 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: of the differentiation of self refers to the degree to 215 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 3: which a person can think and act for self while 216 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: in contact with emotionally charged issues. It also refers to 217 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 3: the degree which a person can discern between thoughts and feelings, 218 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 3: kind of like how we were talking about the people pleaser. 219 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: At higher levels of differentiation, people maintain separate solid cells 220 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 3: under considerable stress and anxiety, They manage their own reactivity 221 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: and choose thoughtful actions. At lower levels of differentiation, people 222 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: depend on others to function, and they develop significant symptoms 223 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: under stress. They act often destructfully based on anxious reactions 224 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 3: to the environment. Their intellectual reasonings uses with emotionality. Even 225 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: highly intelligent people can be poorly differentiated. So what they 226 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 3: are talking about is this level of having the emotions 227 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 3: being disconnected to the reality. And we know that women 228 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 3: kind of have been targeted that way, being told you 229 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: are the nurture, the caregiver, so you should care and 230 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 3: you should feel these ways. And we also know that 231 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: men are told don't that is not mainly feeling feelings 232 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: is not good. So it kind of has this abuse 233 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: of power, and this differentiation can really impact how you 234 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 3: set those boundaries. And for women, well, again it's complicated. 235 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 3: Doctor Tamika Let explains in one article in the Zoe 236 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: report dot com quote, in my opinion, when women say 237 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 3: quote I need help or I need a break, we 238 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 3: are viewed as a weak or not as competent as 239 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: our male counterparts despite not taking care of ourselves, which 240 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 3: can result in mental health issues such as anxiety or depression. 241 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 3: Women are also seen as liabilities, and again we know 242 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: the implications of being seen as vulnerable. This is a 243 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 3: feminine quality and this is kind of how it's attributed 244 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: to weaknesses, especially when it comes to positions of authority. Again, 245 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 3: this whole level of that nurture nature, the gendered ideas 246 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 3: of emotions and why that is so harmful at youth. Again, 247 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: this impacts how we set boundaries and whether or not 248 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: we can set those boundaries. 249 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 250 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: And I think the socialization aspect is very very important. 251 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: And I know for me, like, because of some of 252 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 2: the trauma in my past, I don't even if I 253 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: want to say no, I don't say it at first, right, 254 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: because it's the safety. It feels like, oh, my city, 255 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: he's going to get mad, especially as a man involved, right. 256 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 3: He's going to get to talk about yeah. 257 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: And so for me, like this kind of almost separation 258 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: of emotions. It's like I feel the emotion and then 259 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: I shut it down and just say like O hey, yeah, 260 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: like bubbly bubbly, yes, right. 261 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: And then later I'm like, oh god no. 262 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: And honestly, we're going to talk later on about how 263 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: to set boundaries. But so many of these articles that 264 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: are referring to women trying to set boundaries teach them 265 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 3: how to do it kindly because it is dangerous. But 266 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 3: again we'll come back to that. 267 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, all right. 268 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: Therapist Emily Party weighs in on the same article, saying 269 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: boundary setting phrases like those mentioned above can also sometimes 270 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: be interpreted as anti feminist. In a society where women 271 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: have fought so hard to gain equality and opportunity, it 272 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: can be seen as a step in the wrong direction 273 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: when a woman acknowledges healthy boundaries and limitations. It's ironic, truly, 274 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: when the most feminist thing you can do is know 275 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: yourself well and stand up for your knees, which feels 276 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: like a damned if you do and damned if you 277 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: don't situation. And also, yeah, like we talked about in 278 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: Glennon Doyle's book, that whole idea that women have been 279 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: taught like selflessness is such a good thing, like that's 280 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: a value. Yeah, setting your boundaries feels like being selfish. 281 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: Right right, and being able to say no is such 282 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 3: a power trip. So therefore again not female enough or 283 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: feminine enough, and so therefore all these things. But then 284 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: again she say that it can also look like it's 285 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 3: anti feminist, not taking on everything to show that you 286 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: can take on everything, which is ironic in itself. 287 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: Yep. 288 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: So now we're going to talk about masculinity and boundaries 289 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: because This whole thing could be translated as a perception 290 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: of power or supremacy and how it plays in setting boundaries. 291 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: And yes, boundaries are harder to set for those who 292 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: are more likely to be oppressed and marginalized, As Vidha says, 293 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: and I apologize because I think I added a superfluous 294 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: in my pronunciation earlier, and I hope I'm not butchering 295 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: it in either case anyway, they say. Those who have 296 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: more power in society, like men, build a lot of 297 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: un written rules around themselves, and their time is often 298 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: treated as a privilege. These powerful sections also ensure that 299 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: the time and effort of others is seen as disposable, 300 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: and thus this means these oppressed sections end up doing 301 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: more of the work and having hardly any emotional and 302 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: personal boundaries. And what happens when privilege is rejected or 303 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: limited They push back. As the Bethanywebster dot Com article rites, 304 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: male fragility has played a role and that women quote 305 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: have been conditioned to view our needs for boundaries with distrust. 306 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: Having boundaries, saying no and setting one's own limits has 307 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: long been associated with being difficult, uppity, or a bitch. 308 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: Women who set boundaries have been characterized as being ugly. 309 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: Femin Nazis are man hating and have been threatened with 310 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: violence and death right. 311 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: And of course there is an actual other side to this. 312 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: Before we move on, though, we do want to talk 313 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: about the fact that, yes, this becomes dangerous and we've 314 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: talked about this so often that when we put limits 315 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: in saying I'm not interested and we get pushed back 316 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: on there is a dangerous precedent. What can we do 317 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: to make sure that we don't get to that place, 318 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 3: and that is oftentimes make up an excuse, try to 319 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: be kind, all of those things and try to get 320 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: out of the situation, because when we do set up boundaries, 321 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 3: especially like in the dating world, it becomes a challenge. Yeah, 322 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 3: And on that other side, we're gonna talk about the 323 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 3: nice guys as in fact, we stumbled upon some articles 324 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: about how nice guys are asking how to set boundaries 325 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 3: with quote flirty women and when I say flirty, this 326 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: is in a negative connotation. And y'all, we watched these 327 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: advice videos so you didn't have to and you shouldn't. 328 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 3: And it includes teaching men to put limits in boundaries 329 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: with quote firmness and through grounding and according to one video, 330 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 3: this is the idea of taking from the bottom half 331 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: of yourself. And I'm assuming he's talking literally because he 332 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 3: talks about don't take it from the trust, pick from 333 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 3: bottom and I was like, what, maybe talking about his feet. 334 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with that and really being planted or 335 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 3: fill yourself being planted, and not quote overreact because if 336 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: a nice guy overreacts, women will continue to quote poke adam, 337 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 3: which was the phrase. I was really like, what to 338 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 3: get a reaction and continually test those boundaries. Now it 339 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: may sound like we're being sarcastic the language of this 340 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 3: video and articles, especially when it comes to the pickup 341 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 3: artists who use this keith reinforcing the idea that women 342 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: are mere property to conquer. Some of the videos we see, 343 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: I think we're on religious based sites, so talking about 344 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: being a man and fearlessly conquering your fears, all of 345 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: these things. It was interesting and they do talk about 346 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 3: why they may be rejected a little bit. And this 347 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: article that popped up was specifically to the idea of 348 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 3: how to deal with women who are degrading towards men 349 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 3: or when flirting. I will say again this article did 350 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: try to differentiate with the person who was asking the 351 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: question on whether he was upset about being rejected or 352 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 3: the woman was actually being degrading, So at least he 353 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 3: questions this. But let's be honest, when it comes to 354 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 3: these conversations, they continue to place a woman at a 355 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 3: level of being a prize instead of being a human. 356 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: So it doesn't really have the connotation that this is 357 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 3: a conversation with another person, but about how to kind 358 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: of control them in this narrative, or control the narrative 359 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 3: in itself. But there is a whole other point to 360 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 3: these types of articles of misogyny in itself teaches men 361 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 3: that setting boundaries, respecting boundaries are a part of a 362 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: power play. Respecting boundaries is not manly, and that women 363 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 3: want manly men, of course, and that only men can 364 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 3: set these boundaries because once again it's based on privilege 365 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: and power. When we see it in this context, we 366 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 3: know not all men. Okay, we know, but the fact 367 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 3: teachings like this are still prevalent. We can't underestimate the 368 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: level of the need for perceived masculinity, and to do 369 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 3: so can be detrimental for all of the marginalized community. 370 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 3: And this is why we continue to talk about it 371 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 3: and why we yeah, are somewhat dismissive of the not 372 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 3: all men because it just takes one man. It just 373 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 3: takes that one time for us to underestimate what these 374 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 3: conversations can push. 375 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: To Yeah yeah, And continuing the conversation of power and 376 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 2: privilege and boundaries, there are many examples of why women 377 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: continue to be unable to set limits and boundaries. One 378 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 2: of the biggest examples is the backlash of saying no. 379 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 2: As we talked about earlier, just by rejecting someone, a 380 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 2: woman maybe putting themselves in danger, and many have learned 381 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: throughout their lives our self worth is based on the 382 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: way we can sacrifice ourselves, meaning in order to show 383 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 2: our value, we have to give up ourselves, our happiness 384 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: for the betterment of others. Another great quote, we learned 385 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: to unconsciously and automatically oppress ourselves and other women as 386 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: a means of survival. We had to self fragment, disabling 387 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: our own connection with ourselves to some degree and prioritizing 388 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: external approval in a world that favors rich white men 389 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: over everybody else. 390 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: Right and Daniel Litl Daeper When it comes to the 391 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 3: bipod community, the dangers in past trauma is even greater. 392 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: Black women have been on the outskirts throughout the centuries 393 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: when it comes to having their boundaries respected, but have 394 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: been the ones to fight the hardest to establish it 395 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: for the sake of the entire community. When the term 396 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: intersectionality was coined by Kimberly Crenshaw, many pushed back because 397 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 3: it meant that those in the hierarchy aka white women, 398 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: had to admit that their cause was not about equality 399 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 3: but more about power for themselves. Not too long ago, 400 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: black women drew a line in the sand after being 401 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 3: continually sidelined or made the token by those who wanted 402 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 3: to be considered quote allies. 403 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: In a twenty nineteen year article written in an injusticemac 404 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: dot org, one writer says quote that overfamiliarity was acceptable 405 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: for white women to display toward Black women, and we 406 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: were meant to simply accept the faux familial connection while 407 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: simultaneously remembering our place. And they continue in the article, 408 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: given the history of slavery and white women's active, yes 409 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: active role in subjugating, abusing, and dehumanizing Black women during 410 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: that time and after, we do not feel comfortable and 411 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 2: once we state we don't feel comfortable, and they proceed 412 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 2: to make it about their emotional distress. Is clear why 413 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: we feel that way. Even friendships nourished over years have boundaries. 414 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: Adhering to boundaries shows value and respect for the individual 415 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 2: and the relationship. How are we united when our attempts 416 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: to establish boundaries are disregarded? How can there be respect? 417 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: Right? 418 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: And I'm just going to put this out there, true 419 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: allyship is not us non black and Indigenous women and 420 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 3: non binary folks stating that we are allies, as this 421 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 3: is not a title we can give ourselves, just a 422 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: reminder just because you call yourself that does me that 423 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: that's what you are. I know you want to be, 424 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: But if you truly are an ally you wouldn't have 425 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: to say that for yourself. And honestly, that term has 426 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: began to fade as many people cannot understand the true 427 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 3: responsibilities of allyship. But about all of this is accepting 428 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 3: the boundaries that have been set for us. So when 429 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 3: we talked about earlier, yes, we want to learn how 430 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 3: to set boundaries for ourselves. A part of this learning 431 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 3: is to respect boundaries as well. From that same article, 432 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 3: they say if they are fighting for women that must 433 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 3: include all of us, which means combating all aspects of 434 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 3: marginalization that women outside of whiteness are subjected to, because 435 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: just like your whiteness can often chield you from the 436 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 3: aspects of sexism, a black woman, a black trans woman 437 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: will often see the worst because they lack the protection 438 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: of whiteness and they have to contend with anti blackness, 439 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 3: misogyn noir and or transphobia. And to add our own 440 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 3: trauma to other trauma proceeds to cross the boundary lines 441 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 3: as allies and honestly as decent humans. This is something 442 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: that is important that we talk about, especially in a 443 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 3: time where everybody is trying to come together for a 444 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: greater purpose. But the fact of the matter is this 445 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: intersectional level. Until everyone has equality, then no one has it. 446 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 3: And the people who have been fighting the longest and 447 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 3: the hardest are the ones that we should be listening to, 448 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 3: and oftentimes are the ones that are ignored. And just 449 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: because we have good intentions, those good intentions are not always. 450 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: Good And for the bipod community, it has only been 451 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: more clear in the last few years the importance in 452 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 2: setting boundaries. The pandemic and quarantine has made it clear 453 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: that so often boundaries are pushed past the limits to 454 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: the detriment of marginalized communities. According to another twenty twenty 455 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: one article, Ethakahindi, a licensed therapist, talks about the impact 456 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 2: of working from home during the pandemic. With many working 457 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: from home over the last year, it has become harder 458 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 2: to to escape toxic workplace culture, which has been particularly 459 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 2: hard on black women. According to a twenty eighteen Women 460 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 2: in the Workplace study, forty percent of Black women said 461 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: they had their judgment questioned in their area of expertise 462 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: while earning only sixty seven cents on the dollar compared 463 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: to what men earned. These factors in other instances of 464 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: workplace discrimination can cause a major impact on mental health 465 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: and create a demand to separate work from other areas 466 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 2: of one's life. Unfortunately, quarantine made that much harder, and 467 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: they continue writing. 468 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: Coupled with everything. 469 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 2: That's been going on and more awareness around police brutality 470 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: and racial and systemic injustice, I think it's become really 471 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: important for people to navigate what their limits are and 472 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: how they can help really maintain their identity and engage 473 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: the world around them. 474 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 3: Right and another therapist, Rita Walker, was quoted in the 475 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 3: same article saying these communities disproportionately carry high levels of 476 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 3: burden with less access to education, housing, economic and political opportunities, 477 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 3: while shouldering more violence and disparities in health and well being. 478 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: These communities are resilient, but even resilience has its limits. 479 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 3: We often get overwhelmed before we know it. When that happens, 480 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 3: we feel as if we cannot take any more mentally, 481 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 3: because we need our minds to accomplish everything in life. 482 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 3: It's a good idea to protect them before feeling overwhelmed. 483 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 3: And even if we think we can handle anything, everyone 484 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 3: has a limit. Yeah, and there is a barrier when 485 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 3: it comes to Black and Indigenous women being able to 486 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: set boundaries. Many are criticized for taking a break. A 487 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 3: couple of examples include Naomi Osaka and Simon Biles, who 488 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 3: are both criticized for stepping back due to their mental health. 489 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: Many accuse them of betraying their country for not willingly 490 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 3: sacrificing their own health for a metal, and many Black 491 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 3: women are characterized as being angry or too sensitive when 492 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: asking simple requests, like using belittling language or appropriating terms 493 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: like sis, which we're going to kind of talk about 494 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 3: in a minute. But doctor let from the Zoe Report 495 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 3: that we mentioned earlier, I actually talked of the very 496 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: situation because starting your SOCCA on bials, she says, they 497 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 3: have both put a spotlight on the idea that health 498 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: is holistic and includes mind, body, and spirit. They've also 499 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 3: exposed that black women have to work harder at demonstrating 500 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 3: their worth and abilities, which makes them more susceptible to 501 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 3: mental health concerns that are not often addressed due to 502 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 3: stigmas surrounding women and the black and brown communities. And yeah, 503 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 3: I think we need to kind of have that big 504 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 3: conversation about why we want to demonize someone for our 505 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: self worth. Again, that's the whole different thing. And as 506 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 3: we were talking about the term CIS. Last year, there 507 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 3: was a black TikTok creator who requested white women to 508 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 3: not call her CIS and she was met with a 509 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 3: lot of angry white women who immediately violated that request 510 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: and went after her for that small, simple request. And 511 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 3: though we aren't going to talk about the incident too deeply, 512 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 3: it's interesting to look at how quickly allies turn when 513 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: told they do not have the privilege of saying something 514 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 3: and again, this has a lot to do with the 515 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: African American vernacular that we have talked about previously, that 516 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 3: has been addressed previously by other hosts, and why it's 517 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: important that we understand appreciation versus appropriation. When we had 518 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: a book club with our guests talking about language and 519 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: the basis and the history of language and a lot 520 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: of it was stolen from black culture, which Black culture 521 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 3: has been villainized for and being told they're angry or 522 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 3: inappropriate or unprofessional. But yet we're taking their language. And 523 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: this is one of those moments like you have not 524 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 3: earned the right to call me sis and appropriately so, 525 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 3: and yet white women coming out of the woodward going 526 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 3: but why can't. 527 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: I m hm, yeah, I mean I think that whole 528 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: respecting of boundaries, like if you want to set your 529 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: own boundaries, you mean to. 530 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: Respect other people's boundaries right as well. 531 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: And I think that's so important to remember and even 532 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 2: see that with them pronouns and trust pronouns right now, 533 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: and it feels very it does feel like very weaponized 534 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 2: and privileged of like well you can't tell me no, 535 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: don't you know, right, but. 536 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 3: Like happiness, but you can't deny me of mine, of 537 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: making you miserable, which, yeah, and you know this has 538 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: kind of moved on that Tektoker. I believe she erased 539 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 3: her content because she was getting so much flack and 540 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 3: even being told that she was too angry. It was 541 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 3: so absurd. 542 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: M m mm hmmm. 543 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 2: But yes, as we have said before, angers is not 544 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: a bad thing, and therapists Hindi agrees. They write, I 545 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: think that when people experience a black woman being angry, 546 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: it is not random. Oftentimes anger is a healthy response 547 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: to someone violating your boundary or being dismissive, because we're 548 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: all entitled to be heard. And I do think it 549 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: really impacts black women and how they engage, especially in work. 550 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: I think in social environments where black women and black 551 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: female identifying individuals engage with others like them, there's less 552 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: of this fear of being angry because they're being heard 553 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: and understood. Right. 554 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: And Yeah, that's just such a big open conversation of 555 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 3: what we've been seeing recently of like, Okay, how do 556 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 3: we do better, Let's do better. That's I feel like 557 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 3: since Anie, you and I have come on to the show, 558 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 3: that's kind of been that perspective, like we want to 559 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 3: do better. Let us know when we're doing something that 560 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: is inappropriate and or going against our own mission. But 561 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 3: of course there comes the outrage because you are being 562 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: taken away from something and these boundaries that we've had 563 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 3: to set for ourselves, even when it comes to the show, 564 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 3: like yes, if we've responded to you maybe because yeah, 565 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: thank you so much for clarifying and let it get 566 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 3: us know, versus you feeling offended because we're calling you in. 567 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation and setting that boundary of like, 568 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 3: we're not going to engage in toxicity for the sake 569 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: of your entertainment, and that's kind of where we are 570 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: seeing these The boundary is we all want our boundaries 571 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: to be met and or respected. That means we also 572 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: have to respect others even if it makes you uncomfortable 573 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: or makes you feel like, oh, you did something wrong, 574 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 3: because there are moments it is again a call in, 575 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: and you need to consider about why that feels like 576 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: a call in. 577 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 578 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 579 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 580 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: So we've gone through some other reasons why boundaries are 581 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: important and how setting boundaries or respecting boundaries again can 582 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 3: be difficult. So let's talk about how to set boundaries, 583 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 3: and we're not going to go completely into it. We're 584 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: just gonna give you a few things that we have 585 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 3: read from different articles and may be helpful. 586 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: One big thing is figuring out what is important to you? 587 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: Is it something that is a value to you? And 588 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 2: just kind of I feel like I've talked a lot 589 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: about mindfulness since the pandemic, but it's kind of that 590 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: I like sitting there and thinking, Okay, what, why am 591 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: I saying yes when maybe I didn't want to say yes? 592 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: What is important? Where do I really want to lay 593 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: down this boundary? 594 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 3: Right? 595 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: And why is that? 596 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it not a big deal? Okay? Cool? Is 597 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 3: it going to set a precedent? 598 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: Okay? 599 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: Also, you could start learning some new phrases to say 600 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 3: no or no things or maybe not today type of way. 601 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 3: And here are some examples from the Zoe Report and 602 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: Psychology Today. Annie, We're going to practice you ready, Okay, 603 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 3: So I'm going to start so ready, I'm going to 604 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: say it. I'll get back to you. 605 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: That won't work for me. 606 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 3: I'm not going to take that on right now. Thank 607 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 3: you for asking, but no, Well, I will need help 608 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 3: with this. 609 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: I need a break. 610 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've changed my mind. 611 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with that. 612 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: That sounds like a great opportunity and I want to help, 613 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 3: but is it okay if I think about it for 614 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 3: a while. 615 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: I'd love to you, but I know I'm over committed 616 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: and I won't be able to give this the time it deserves. 617 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 3: So obviously we're very specific, but yeah, there are ways. Again, 618 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 3: this is kind of again that whole being polite, and 619 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with being polite, but again I am 620 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 3: interested to know who is being polite and who was 621 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: just being blunt. 622 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: Right, And I'm also curious. 623 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: This is kind of reminding me of the conversation we 624 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 2: had around strategic incompetence when people are like not being 625 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: honest and genuine when they say things like this, or 626 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 2: because it kind of it's again that flip side of 627 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 2: the corn. 628 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: It's very complicated. But it's also like my mom. 629 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 2: I've talked about this before, but it's kind of interesting 630 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: because there are some things that because of when, when 631 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: and how she was raised, she's learning after me, and 632 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 2: this is kind of one and she struggles really hard 633 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: with saying no, and I learned from her, but I 634 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: think I've like kind of surpassed her. And I was 635 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 2: telling her sometimes if I know a conversation and I 636 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 2: it's going to involve that, and I'm worried that I'm 637 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: going to give in and I really don't want to. 638 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: I'll like write out a freaking script. I will write 639 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: something out. I will have bullet points on my hand 640 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 2: like it's kind of it sounds. 641 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: Silly like reading these things. It's like, you can't just 642 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: do that right. Sometimes you need it right. 643 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: I have definitely practiced beforehand of what more do you 644 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 3: say in the car as I'm driving having a full 645 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 3: long conversation with myself? 646 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: Oh me? 647 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: All right? So back to some other smothered tips that 648 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: we found taking a look at the big picture. Is 649 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: it something you need to do right now? Can you 650 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: kind of push it down the line, deal with it? 651 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 3: Does it help you, does it help anyone? Or is 652 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 3: it just something that people are using you for. Be honest, 653 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 3: let people know when you need a break, don't ignore 654 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 3: when you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's one of 655 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 3: the things is we're not honest, not with ourselves when 656 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 3: we come to that breaking point until it's too late. 657 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 3: And again that's the same thing of being mindful. Just 658 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 3: really listen to that. Oh yeah, I'm hitting that wall. 659 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 3: I'm gonna need before I lose it and lose friends, 660 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 3: I'm going to need to take a step back. 661 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's a great way to look at 662 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: it is you don't want to have a meltdown and 663 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 2: then hurt somebody. And I think one of the things 664 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: we haven't really touched on in this episode but is 665 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 2: sort of on the outskirts. I think a lot of 666 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 2: acid to do is self esteem, at least when it 667 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: comes to women. So for me, I don't have the 668 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 2: A lot of times I don't have the self esteem. 669 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 2: I'm not worth saying no. They want to do it, 670 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 2: and they I want to make them happy because they're 671 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: better than me. So kind of like telling yourself, now, 672 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: if you want to stay in read that fan fiction, 673 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: then do it, Then do it. I say, also find 674 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 2: where you need to set boundaries. Is it in your 675 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 2: work life, your love life, Many aspects of your life 676 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: could be Yeah. 677 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 3: And if you can get connected, whether it's through therapy 678 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 3: or a support group. And there's a lot of bad 679 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 3: friends out there, but there's a lot of great friends 680 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 3: out there too, and hopefully you are able to connect 681 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 3: with those people who will also tell you, hey, you're 682 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 3: you sure you want to do all these things? This 683 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 3: is kind of running yourself too thin. You might not 684 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 3: want to do this. Those are the friends you need, 685 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 3: and sometimes it's nice to have someone as a sounding 686 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 3: board of like is this too much or is this 687 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 3: not enough? Type of conversation. 688 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and again remember we need to learn to 689 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 2: respect people's boundaries, listen when they are letting you in. 690 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 2: If you want to be an advocate, make sure you 691 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 2: are listening and not putting words into other people's mouths 692 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 2: and adding more work for others. Google is an amazing 693 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: tool for learning and there are so many great resources 694 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 2: out there for that. Sometimes it does feel really funny 695 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 2: again kind of looking up these sort of basic keep 696 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: and truths. 697 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: But it makes sense, like you know, people are complicated. 698 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 3: Right, and honestly, when it comes to when we talk 699 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,479 Speaker 3: about social justice work and we were talking about wanting 700 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 3: to be good people and good advocates, there is work 701 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 3: out there. We have read several books and if you 702 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 3: want to go through our book club list, there are 703 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 3: amazing books out there, resources that already exist, yep. Where 704 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 3: you don't have to tax other people to do the 705 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 3: same work when you can do it yourself. 706 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, Yeah, all of this, all of this 707 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: can be healthy if you're doing it in a productive manner. 708 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, there are. 709 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 2: Toxic boundary settings that happen as well. Again, refer back 710 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 2: to boundaries and bipoc community and toxic masculinity and yes, 711 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: strategic and competence. Perhaps yes, and boundaries can help you 712 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 2: avoid burnout and have a better sense of identity and yeah, 713 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 2: even build better self esteem. 714 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 3: Right, and boundaries are different for different people. From Better 715 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 3: at humans Dot article titled how to Set Healthy Boundaries 716 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 3: a Compassionate Guide for Women, writer Julia Horvath writ's quote, 717 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 3: boundaries exist on a skill for each person, and we 718 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 3: all have to find our own middle ground. And I 719 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: think that's a good conversation to have. Not everyone has 720 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,919 Speaker 3: the same level or limits and it looks differently for them. 721 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 3: And continue to ask questions for yourself, learn about your 722 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 3: own limits and how to best set them. But also 723 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 3: understand that, yeah, community is a good thing. There is 724 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 3: a healthy boundary. There's a healthy middle ground that we 725 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 3: need to find when seeking help. Again, don't use your 726 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 3: friends necessarily to the point that you're pushing them away. 727 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 3: You know, when I would mention that I was a 728 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 3: social worker, I got a lot of interesting reactions and 729 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,280 Speaker 3: I would have to set boundaries to be like, maybe 730 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 3: you should talk to your therapists about that, and not 731 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 3: that I didn't have many friends who did that, but 732 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 3: I had strangers roommates that I wasn't close to that 733 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 3: would do like does this sound normal? Does this sound like? Okay? 734 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 3: I don't get me wrong, I love analyzing, but being 735 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 3: constantly on yes, taxing and yeah, that's that same level 736 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 3: as understanding middle grounds for yourself. I know sometimes it's 737 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 3: really hard because you want to be a helpful person 738 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 3: and you feel like you owe that to someone, but 739 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 3: you know, yeah, there's a certain point that you need 740 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 3: to have a moment for yourself. 741 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this is, like many of our conversations, is 742 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 2: very nuanced because it's also like. 743 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: Who are you actually trying to help? Are you like me? 744 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 2: Are you trying to avoid something and you're pooring that 745 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 2: into helping someone who doesn't want your help? 746 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: You know, that's good questions. 747 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 2: Yes, And I know in a lot of past episodes 748 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 2: we didn't talk about it too much in this, but 749 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 2: a lot of you have written in about setting boundaries 750 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 2: with family, so I know that is a big big 751 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 2: piece of this too. And yeah, taking that time to 752 00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 2: learn your boundaries and how to set them in a 753 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: healthy way is so important. And if you have any 754 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 2: tips you'd like to share. Again, not everything works the 755 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 2: same for everybody, it'd be different. But if you have 756 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: anything you'd like to share, any resources you'd like to share, 757 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 2: you know we love those. You can emails at Stephanie 758 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 2: Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on 759 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 2: Twitter at mom step podcast or on Instagram at stuff 760 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 2: when ever Told You. Thanks as always to our super 761 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 2: producer Christina, Thank you and thanks to you for listening 762 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: stuff on Ever Told the protection of iHeartRadio. For more 763 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 2: podcast from my heart Radio is the iHeart Radio app, 764 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 2: Apple podcast or where you listen to your favorite shows.