1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how stuff 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Mankind in its present state has been 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: around for a quarter of a million years, yet only 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: the last four thousand have been of any significance. So 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: what did we do? For nearly two hundred and fifty 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: thousand years? We huddled in cades and around small fires, 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: fearful of things that we didn't understand. It was more 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: than explaining why the sun came up. It was the 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: mystery of enormous birds with heads of men and rocks 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: that came to life. So we called them gods and demons, 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: begged them to spare us, and prayed for salvation. In time, 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: their numbers dwindled in ours rose. The world began to 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: make more sense when there were fewer things to fear. 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Yet the unexplained can never truly go away, as if 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the universe demands the absurd and impossible. Mankind must not 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: go back to hiding in fear. No one else will 17 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: protect us, and we must stand up for ourselves. While 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: the rest of mankind dwells in the light, we must 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: stand in the darkness to fight it, contain it, and 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: shield it from the eyes of the public, so that 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: others may live in a sane and normal world. Hey, 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Bloil Your Mind. My name is 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I am Christian Sager, and we are 24 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: on our third episode about creepy pastas. This uh, I 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: want to say it was this time last year that 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: we did the first one and people really liked it, 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: so we did a second one, and then I would say, 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: especially this time of year, we get about an email 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: or two a week suggesting different creepy pastas that we 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: read and possibly do on the show. And the one 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: that we have been hearing about the most is called SCP, 32 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: and we looked into it and it fit the show perfectly. 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: It's almost like they designed it just for us. So 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: I hope that the creators of SCP, the writers of 35 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 1: these various creepy pastas, are out there listening. We love 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: what you're doing. Yeah, SCP Foundation. SCP stands for Special 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: Containment Procedures. Uh. It's uh. And you can find this 38 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: by the way at SCP slash wiki dot wiki dot 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: dot com, or just do a web search for u 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: SEP Foundation or will also include a link to it 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: on the landing bach for this episode of Stuff to 42 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: Blow Your mind dot com. It's a fabulous uh, just 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: a catalog encyclopedia of all these weird specimens that are 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: presented presented as if they are under scientific scrutiny. Is 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: if these specimens are being uh investigated very cautiously by 46 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: by by individuals who have scientific curiosity about the specimens 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: but also the best interests of mankind and its sanity 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: at heart. Yeah, they pitched it as being kind of 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: like that TV show Warehouse thirteen, but what I thought 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: more of was spoilers Cabin in the Woods, uh, and 51 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: and what's going on behind the scenes in that movie. Um. So, okay, 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: maybe you have never heard one of our Creepy Pasta 53 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: episodes before, so we're gonna give you a real quick 54 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: intro to it, although I recommend that you go check 55 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: out the ones that we've done previously. Creepy Pastas are 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: viral copy and paste text in the form of horror stories. 57 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: They evolved from copy pasta, which is another sort of 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: viral copy and paste text thing. They take the shape 59 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: of urban legends, mainly appearing as if there's something that 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: actually happened, uh, and they mimic first person accounts, especially 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: scientific ones, which is why we're attracted to them because 62 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: we like to on these episodes take the scientific ones 63 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,839 Speaker 1: and kind of extrapolate out what's actually going on here 64 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: science wise. Uh. So we have a penchant for this genre. 65 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: The most popular one that you've probably heard of is 66 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: slender Man. Then the genre really seems to have hit 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: its peak into one ten, but it is still chugging 68 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: along as SCP is total evidence. Oh yeah, there's a 69 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: new television series that's right. Yeah. In fact, Robert and 70 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: I jested an interview with Playboy magazine of all places, 71 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: about this upcoming sci fi TV show, Channel zero that's 72 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: all about different creepy pastas, and I guess the first 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: one that they're gonna do is Candle Cove. They're basically 74 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: gonna take some of these creepypastas and adapt them for television. Yeah. 75 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it myself yet, but I've heard great things. 76 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah me neither. Um. But back to SCP. So, the 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: basic idea here is that it's a foundation that is 78 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: trying to contain and protect us from all these various 79 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: entities that are sort of weird horror abstractions. Right, it's 80 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: not fair, Yeah, and it's I think it's kind of 81 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: I see SCP Foundation is kind of an evolution of 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: the form because the more classic examples of pasta and 83 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: creepy pasta, they're they're such I mean, they straddle fiction 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: and reality in such a way to supposed to misinterpret them. 85 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: Like it's the kind of thing where someone is pasting 86 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: it onto a message board, like an individual saying, hey, 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: has anyone ever had a bad experience with this medication? 88 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: And then someone pace as in copy and paste pasta, 89 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: they paste this this, uh, this ridiculous story of something 90 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: that happened to somebody, and then you're supposed to potentially 91 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: think it's real. Whereas SCP STP Foundation, it's not so 92 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: much they're not really pushing the these this is real, 93 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: this really happened angle but they're playing with the genre. 94 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: There's still I believe anonymous entries. I think so yeah. Uh, 95 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: they basically are cataloging all of these creatures, entities, whatever 96 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: they are, as if they're all in containment. And so 97 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: the guidelines for writing one of these is that the 98 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: articles should have an interesting idea, a reasonable containment procedure 99 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 1: for whatever it is it's being contained, and a clear 100 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: description of each entry They also operate on a rating system, 101 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: which was really nice for us to be able to 102 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: get like a good dive in UM. If the page 103 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: is low rated, they're deleted from the site if they 104 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: receive a negative nine rating or lower UM. So these 105 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: people are very focused on quality, more so than a 106 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: lot of the creepy pasta sites that we've been to before. 107 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: There's also a spinoff game. I haven't had a chance 108 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: to play it yet, but it's called Containment Breach, where 109 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: you play a disposable human guinea pig that's stuck in 110 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: the facility and the it undergoes a containment breach, so 111 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: you're alone with all the escaped entities. I I just 112 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: really liked a lot of these. They play to the 113 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: weirdness of horror rather than to the gore of some 114 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: of the creepy pastas, and I that appealed to me. Yeah, 115 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean I. I I also love the emphasis on humor 116 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: and absurdity. There's still plenty of unsettling aspects to the 117 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: various specimens, but more often than not, the entries put 118 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: a smile on my face or even elect a giggle. UM. Plus, 119 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: there's a fair amount of a variety in the style. 120 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: Most of the top entries retain that case report format, 121 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: but but there are tones shifts here and there, and uh, 122 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: and some rely on visuals more so than others. There's 123 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: even one entry at least STP that's entirely it's told 124 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: entirely through visuals, through the sequential use of like industrial 125 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: hazard signs to tell the story of a deadly but 126 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: perhaps loving shadow entity that creeps in and and terrifies 127 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: and potentially consumes one of the researchers. Yeah, I really 128 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: love the creativity on this site. Definitely recommend that you 129 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: go visit it. So our mission today and on this 130 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: episode is we each took three of our favorite specimens 131 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: and then we extrapolated out scientific lessons that we can 132 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: learn from them. Yeah, so view it as a celebration 133 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: of step foundation materials, but also using different examples from 134 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: SEP as a as a stepping stone to then discuss 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: some equally fascinating and weird science, real world science behind 136 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: the fiction. Okay, so we're gonna start off with one 137 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: of Roberts and this one is called the Sculpture. Yeah, 138 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: this one's pretty cool because it not only is the 139 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: idea interesting, it's also the original specimen. This was the 140 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: first CP Foundation specimen to have a ride up. And 141 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read from the description quote move to 142 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: site nineteen. Origin is of yet unknown. It is constructed 143 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: from concrete and rebar with faces of Crylon brand spray paint. 144 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: SEP one seventy three. Is an is animate and extremely hostile. 145 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: The object cannot move while within a direct line of sight. 146 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: Line of sight must not be broken at any time. 147 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: With SCP one seventy three, personnel assigned to inter container 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: are instructed to alert one other before blinking object is 149 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: reported to attack by snapping the neck at the base 150 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: of the skull or by strangulation. In the event of 151 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: an attack, personnel are to observe Class four hazardous object 152 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: containment procedures. So uh. A lot of these remind me 153 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: of like the premises for Doctor Who episodes, and this 154 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: one immediately made me think of the weeping Angels, which 155 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: are sort of a favorite on the newer Doctor Who episodes. Yeah, indeed, 156 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: like this is the trope, right, the the entity that 157 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: cannot move as long as you're looking at it, but 158 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: if you look away, it's going to creep in with 159 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: alarming speed. Another big example of this are the hedge 160 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: creatures from Stephen King's novel The Shine. Oh yeah, that's right. 161 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: But one of the things The Shining movie is my 162 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: favorite movie of all time. But that is the one 163 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: thing from the novel I really wish had made it 164 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: in there. That's right, because in the in the in 165 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: the movie, the original Kubrick film, we we got this hedgemazed, 166 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: and certainly that works very well within the the you know, 167 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: the that adaptation. But in the original novel, they're these 168 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: hedge animals and if you look away, then you look back, 169 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: and they moved closer, and they get closer and closer. 170 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: And I haven't seen it yet, but you know, Stephen 171 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: King made his own adaptation of it, and I believe 172 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: the hedge creatures are in that. I think so. I 173 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: think they kept it, but I've not seen one of 174 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: these days, I'll get to it now. SCP One three, 175 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: as the picture seems to illustrate, is kind of this 176 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: giant space baby from a Young smunk Meyer film. At 177 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: the image is pretty crazy. Yeah, it's it's like it's 178 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: it's a little bit bad, but it's also it's it's 179 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: creepy to look at because you're trying to imagine this 180 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: thing moving when your eyes are adverted. And they believe 181 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: this is also the most popular one, right or one 182 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: of the most pop's. It's right up there on the 183 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: top of the list, if not the most popular, and 184 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: certainly it's been around the longest, and it is a 185 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: good it's a really good like template for other U 186 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: imagine for anyone creating one of these now. In addition 187 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: to the head creatures from Stephen King's The Shining and 188 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who, which which, as you 189 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: pointed out, these are these on the show where ancient 190 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: alien predators who resemble winged humans and they make use 191 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: of time paradoxes. They move swiftly, but only if nothing 192 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: is looking at them, and apparently if two weeping angels 193 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: look at each other at the same time, they get 194 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: trapped in their stone forms. But then, on top of 195 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: these sational examples, there's Ninja Cat from YouTube. It's exactly 196 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: the same premise. It's it's uh, somebody pointing their camera 197 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: at this cat is peeking around a corner at them 198 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: down the hall, and then the camera moves away for 199 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: a second, moves back, and the cat is peeking around 200 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: a closer corner, and they move away, and then when 201 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: they come back, the cat is even closer. But just 202 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: like the hedge creatures of the Weeping Angels or this 203 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: particular SEP specimen, you never actually see it move. It 204 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: just gets closer and closer and closer to much right 205 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: on you. No, I haven't seen that one, but that 206 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: sounds like it would be very amusing. Yeah, it is, 207 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: it's it's it's wonderful. But this last example, ninja cat. Uh, 208 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: given that it's a natural world predator as opposed to 209 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: another worldly when it raises, the question, does direct line 210 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: of sight, direct eyesight even protect a prey animal such 211 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: as a human from a predator such as a tiger 212 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: or a jumping angel or a hedge monster. Yeah, it's 213 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: a it's a wonderful question. And uh, and indeed we 214 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: have some answers to that. So eye contact is of 215 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: course something that creepily transcends species. And and I mean 216 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: it's creepy enough with with humans, right, it's weird to 217 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: humans lot gazes and there's this sense of connection, sense 218 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: of openness for an attempt to dominate. Numerous studies have 219 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: revealed that that it that it has various influences over 220 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: trust persuasion. A two thousand eleven study even show that 221 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: eye contact can serve as an invitation to mimicry, which 222 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: which has an impact on the way we learn, but 223 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: also potentially on how people with autism struggle to grasp 224 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: when they're expected to copy the actions of another person. 225 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, certainly. I mainly think of the sort 226 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: of quote science of eye contact because I used to 227 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: teach public speaking, and it's a big part of that, 228 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: like how much eye contact should you have with your audience? Um, 229 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: where should you be moving your eyes through the audience? 230 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: Would you just stare at one person? Obviously not. So 231 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of rules to 232 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: it to be an effective public speaker, right. But but 233 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: related to that, there's there's also this mix of a 234 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: continuing study into how uh, direct eye contact influences are 235 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: are speaking abilities, but also there's a fair amount of 236 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: sort of folk mythology about yeah. Well, for instance, the 237 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: whole idea that you should make direct eye contact when 238 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: trying to convince somebody of something you see it in 239 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: a speech or whatever. There was actually a two thousand 240 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: thirteen University of Freiburg study that found that direct eye 241 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: contact makes skeptical listeners less likely to change their minds. 242 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: I believe it. So it's just it's like, oh, you're 243 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: you're boring into me with your with your ideas and 244 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: your creepy eyes. I'm just gonna shut you out. I remember, 245 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't have them in the notes here, but I 246 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: remember reading studies that like have quantified the exact amount 247 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: of seconds that human beings can look at each other 248 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: in the eyes before it becomes so uncomfortable that they 249 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: just immediately shut down. Yeah. But the crazy part though, right, 250 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: is that that if you've ever made eye contact with 251 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: a dog or a cat or a zoo animal, then 252 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: you felt that inner species connection as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely. 253 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: I look, that's funny that you you bring that up, 254 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: because you know, I have two dogs. I hang out 255 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: with them all the time, and uh look them in 256 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: the eyes all the time, a lot longer than a 257 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: human and I would be able to look each other 258 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: in the eyes. But I think it's because the dogs 259 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: are connecting differently, but it still means something to them. Yeah. 260 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: I have the same experience with our cat, who like 261 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: who I know, you know, I do not this cat, especially, 262 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: I do not anthropomorphizes too much, like she's she's a 263 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: monster who attacks my feet, and uh, it just came 264 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: around at the long wrong point in our lives. I mean, 265 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: I love her, she's wonderful, but she's kind of kind 266 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: of right. Both my cats are similar, but you make 267 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: eye contact with them and it's like, oh, it's like, 268 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: I know that we have totally different minds and totally 269 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: different brains, totally different views of the world, and yet 270 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: right now we're sharing this profound activity. You're staring into 271 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: eyes and you have no word for eyes. All right, 272 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: you can just go down the rabbit hole on it. 273 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: But at at the basic right, like the bedrock here, 274 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: is that when you when two creatures make eye contact, 275 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: there's this idea that one has been seen, that one 276 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: is being seen, that one is your you're know, not 277 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: hiding from that other creature, the other creature is aware. 278 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: And then what comes next. So there are two main 279 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: distinctions in what should come next? First matching up the 280 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: with with the idea of the weeping angels and uh 281 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: and topiary animals and sep one. See, there's this reality 282 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: that certain creatures depend on stealth to acquire their prey. 283 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: And if if they know that you see them, that 284 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: is going to take away their advantage. They they are 285 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: stealth hunters, they are surprised um predators, and if they 286 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: don't have that surprise, then they may back off. And 287 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: I can't help but think of these attacks in um 288 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: an x COOM terms video games. That was I was 289 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: immediately thinking of video game. Different video game. But yeah, 290 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: when you're trying to sneak up on somebody, Yeah, or 291 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: d n D as well, where you have a bonus. Uh, 292 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: there's a damage bonus or an attack bonus to a 293 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: sneak attack, like in video games. Like Yeah, if it's 294 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: a video games role playing, if the stakes are high enough, 295 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: that surprise attack can make all the difference. Uh. But 296 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: but but you know, within the game it's still a game, right, Well, 297 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: for predators it's uh, it's even more important because first 298 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: of all, nothing beats a sure thing, right or even 299 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: a near sure thing. If an attack, but if an 300 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: attack does not go as exactly planned, a number of 301 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: consequences can occur. So the prey might get away, in 302 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: which case you've lost energy, you've lost time. Other prey 303 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: in the area might be alerted to your presence and 304 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: they're frightened away, We're still an alert prey animal could 305 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: have the chance to counterattack and inflict damage, and that 306 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: kind of injury can prove deadly. Cheatahs, for instance, rarely 307 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: go after larger prey like an austria. There are some 308 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: very interesting examples where they do develop strategies to to 309 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: do that, but for the most part they don't because 310 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: while to pay off for catching that off striach is 311 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: wonderful if you get if they get injured, it basically 312 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: can mean starvation because they are a high speed predator 313 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: and a limping cheetah is not going to eat. Yeah. 314 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: This reminds me of a video that I shot here 315 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: for work a couple of weeks ago about killer whales 316 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: and humpback whales. There's a similar thing going on, and 317 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: that killer whales trying to sneak up and take out 318 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: humpback whale calves. But now humpback whales have started to 319 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: fight back. Uh, to the point that humpback whales will 320 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: actually interfere with killer whale attacks on other animals, like 321 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: they're saving seals from killer whale attacks. Uh, and go 322 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: watch the video. But there's a lot of science to it, 323 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's going on there exactly to 324 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: this point. The killer whales are expending all this energy 325 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: and then the humpbacks just basically pummel them down to 326 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: make sure that they stay away, and they're basically teaching 327 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: them a lesson like don't go after our children. Yeah, 328 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: and certainly I have a hard time sympathizing with the 329 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: mammal eating killer whales. They got to eat somehow. But 330 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: but then you have the fish eating killer whales where 331 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: in my household, my four year old is very is 332 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: very into into nature right now, and he likes killer whales, 333 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: but he's very firm that he only likes fish eating. Yeah, 334 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: despite the fact that the there's a particular to tie 335 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: back into viewing prey killer whales that that prey on 336 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: seals will do this thing called spy hopping, and my 337 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: son's very intrigued by that. And this is where they 338 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: will they'll they'll they're they'll poke their heads out of 339 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: the water kind of like peek over the top and 340 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: see what their prey is up to. Well, maybe if 341 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: that seal just made direct eye contact with the killer whale, 342 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: it would swim away. Yeah, that's right. Now, that's one possibility, right, 343 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: if you know, if you know that the predators after 344 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: you just make eye contact with it at all times, 345 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: it's great, but you're that's going to be quite a 346 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: resource drain. You can't constantly be on the lookout for predators. 347 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: So the next best tactic, of perhaps the better tactic, 348 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: is to fool your enemies into thinking someone's watching you 349 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: all the time. And we actually see countless examples of 350 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: this uh in the evolution of eye spots across various species. 351 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: So these are just you know, dots on a creature 352 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: that look like eyes. Now, to be clear, not all 353 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: eye spots are there to mimic watching eyes. Sometimes they're 354 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: there to fool a predator and attacking a less vulnerable 355 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: part of the animal. You know, don't attack my head, 356 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: attack my rump, or they play into mate selection. But 357 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: in some cases, yes, eye spots definitely serve as anti 358 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: predator adaptations. And we also see examples of the strategy's 359 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: effectiveness outside of natural adaptation. For instance, in India, you 360 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: have individuals who happen to live and work in Bengal 361 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: Ti tiger country and they've long reported success with these 362 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: wooden human masks that they wear in the back of 363 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: their heads with wide open eyes. That the idea here 364 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: is that the tiger will try and self attack them, 365 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: but it sees this face staring back at them, and 366 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: so they realize, oh, well, my percentage, my percentage to 367 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: hit is less, I'm not going to take the risk. Um. 368 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: And and you know, various animal species have evolved eye 369 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: spots that in many cases they serve to protect them 370 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: from creeping predators, as I already mentioned. Uh. Currently there's 371 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: this really cool project Australian conservation biologist Dr Neil Jordan's 372 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: is experimenting with the use of painted on eye spots 373 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: painted and then just black paint into grazing cattle. And 374 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: the idea here is to protect them from lion attacks, 375 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: because lions end up attacking cattle uh. And then the 376 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: humans counterattack at least all this violence, and then the 377 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: lions are already endangered anyway. It's a bad situation for everyone. 378 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: But so far he has reported a fair out of 379 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: success with this. Say he holds a position with the 380 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: Botswana Predator Conservation Trust and he recently held a ten 381 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: week trial of the strategy painting eyes on one third 382 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: of the sixty two cattle herd, three unpainted cows wild 383 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: wound up as lion chow, but none of the eye 384 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: cows fell to bradation. So, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, 385 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: But didn't we do it? Now we do? And this 386 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: was it? You? Who? Yeah? So why it's in your mind? Yeah, 387 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: I remember this from a couple of weeks ago. So yeah, 388 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: we have a small video out there that you can 389 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: go check out at how stuff works. Now they're going 390 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: to do a follow up on it. Hopefully we'll see 391 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: the results of that in the the weeks and months ahead. 392 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: But uh, you know they're gonna use GPS, cattle trackers, 393 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: etcetera to really see how effective this, uh, this strategy is. 394 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: But it does drive on the fact that, yes, there 395 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: are predatory creatures where they know that you're watching, they 396 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: will back they will back off where they will they 397 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: will they will hold off their attack. However, that doesn't 398 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: mean the direct icon atack with your specimen is always 399 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: a good thing. There are also plenty of examples where 400 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: it will force violent actions out of the other species. 401 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: I mean, essentially, you're making eye contact with another animal 402 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: if they are if if if they might see you 403 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: as prey, they're going to hold off their attack. But 404 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: if they think that you were the predator, they think 405 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: you might be the aggressor, they may just go ahead 406 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: and counter attack. So dogs, for instance, they key into 407 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: human eye movements. Have been a number of studies about this. 408 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: They're able to track our eye movements and infer intent. 409 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: And this has also been documented in in other species primates, goats, dolphins, seals, 410 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: even some tortoises. But of course dogs that are that 411 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: feel especially threatened can actually be provoked into attacking the 412 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: eye contact. UM and I imagine anyone who's ever spent 413 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: a lot of time around dogs, especially around a dog 414 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: that is nervous, is already feels threatened. Like you most adults, 415 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: I think, no not to just go and like get 416 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: in its face and stare at it. However, according to 417 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: a two thousand seven New Zealand Medical Journal report, UM 418 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: this I have. This actually can also be one of 419 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: the reasons that the young children are the ones who 420 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: are often victims of dog attacks. When you have one 421 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: of these threatened animals. I mean, on one hand, yes, 422 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: the child is going to be smaller more on the 423 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: dog's scale. There's more of a possibility for for for 424 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: more grievous injuries because of the attack. But also they 425 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: say that a child is going to be less likely 426 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: to avert their gates. So this is like the Kujo 427 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: lesson of science, right, Like Kujo is a different situation. 428 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: But I can't remember back to that book or the 429 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: movie if there's points where they just make direct eye 430 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: contact with it. Yeah. Now, but there's a kid, right, 431 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: it's the mom and the kid. Yeah, they're like stuck 432 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: in a car. I think I never read or saw it, 433 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: so I can't. I can't comment too much on Kujo. However, 434 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: I did see the movie Congo, in which they're a 435 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: number of human guerrilla interactions, and that's of course in 436 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: a well known case as well, like if you encounter 437 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: a guerrilla in the wild, don't make direct eye contact 438 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: with it because you're going to enrage it. And uh, 439 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: and this is this is actually you know, pretty well 440 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: proven in fact back in two thousand seven, Uh, the 441 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: Rotterdam Zoo engage in a wonderful reversal of the aforementioned 442 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: tiger fooling masks. They they gave all these these visitors 443 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: to the zoo shades like little paper shades that look 444 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: like averted eyes, so they're they're super goofy looking because 445 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: oh yeah, there's pictures here that notes wow. Okay, so 446 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: it looks like you're looking the other direction, but you're 447 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: looking straight at the gorilla, so that the gorilla doesn't 448 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: want like run towards the because because people were you know, 449 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: you're there to see the gorilla. You stare at the 450 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: gorilla and at the stair guerrilla stares back sees you staring. 451 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: Then then it's gonna enrage the gorilla. It's gonna upset 452 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: the animal, et cetera. Uh So, even discounting actual human 453 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: guerrilla physical interaction, you don't want these creatures to be 454 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: disrupted more than than they already are artificial environment. Yeah, 455 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: especially in the wake of the whole Harambe incident, this 456 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: seems like something that would make a lot of sense 457 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: for most suits to implement. Yeah, but I will to 458 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: go back to SCP one seventy three would not make sense, 459 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: I think, to where these in the presence of that specimen, 460 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: because that would mean even though you are making direct 461 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: eye contact with it, it thinks you are not, and 462 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: it might attack and strangle you. Yeah, it seems like 463 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: what you should do with SCP one seventy three is 464 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: paint your body or your clothes with eyeballs all over 465 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: it that's pointing directly forward, so just in case you blink, 466 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: it still thinks that you're looking at it. Yeah, I would. 467 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: I would imagine that would be a decent addition to 468 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: the containment procedures procedures. Yeah cool, all right. Well, the 469 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: first one that I have is SCP eight seven, and 470 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: it is also referred to as the stairwell. The entity 471 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: itself is just a platform staircase of thirteen steps that 472 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: has a platform in the middle that rotates a hundred 473 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: and eighty degrees to another staircase. Right, So it's two 474 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: staircases like we we know from the apartment buildings, but 475 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: the bottom one just leads into total darkness, and after 476 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: one point five flights of stairs, the staircase limits your 477 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: visual range. Even if you bring a light source with you, 478 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: it won't always work. In fact, any light source that's 479 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: over seventy five watts has its excess light absorbed by 480 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: the stairwell. Subjects have reported hearing distressed children uh when 481 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: they're on the stairs below the initial platform and on 482 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: into the darkness, and the staircases depth seems to be 483 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: unmeasurable and infinite, so it reminds me of House of Leaves. 484 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: I was just thinking, Uh, sometimes however, explorers who have gone, 485 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: you know, very far down the stairs, they all of 486 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: a sudden run into a face with no pupil, no nostrils, 487 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: and no mouth. So it just kind of pops up. 488 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: It's like the jump scare of this of the stairwell. 489 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: Um doesn't seem to hurt people. It just goes and 490 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: then it sounds like something he would encounter the Miyazaki films. Yeah, yeah, 491 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: it does. It looks like it too. Yeah. They have 492 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: a little image on the on the Sep. Eight seven page. 493 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: So all right, this one fascinated me and made me 494 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: think about light absorbtion and want to understand a little 495 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: bit more about how it worked, so I could try 496 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: to extrapolate out maybe what's going on with a staircase, 497 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: because again, it is a staircase that goes to a 498 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: lightless darkness that may be haunted and possibly inhabited by 499 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: a weird Miyazaki exactly. Yeah, yeah, so what's the deal. 500 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: How is light absorbed? Well, Uh, the way that light 501 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: is absorbed can be used to identify different types of 502 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: gas in space because atoms and molecules absorb it at 503 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: specific wavelengths. So how the spectra of light is absorbed 504 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: can tell us a lot about the energy levels of 505 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: the atoms and molecules that were observing, or about the 506 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: number that are present. So perhaps this staircase has a 507 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: some unique attributes regarding its atomic structure. Let's consider atoms 508 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: for a second to try to figure this out. They've 509 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: got a positively charged nucleus that's made up of protons 510 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: and neutrons, and they're orbited by negatively charged electrons. Usually 511 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: the number of protons and electrons are equal, so the 512 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: atom has a neutral charge. Now I'm going to skip 513 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: a lot of physics here. Okay, there was a lot 514 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: to read about this, and I think it's it's over 515 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: my head and I don't want to bore our audience. 516 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: But if an atom has energy added to it, that 517 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: can excite it by removing an electron, This is a 518 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: process called ionization, and excitation is temporary though. When the 519 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: atom drops back to its ground state, it gives off 520 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: excess energy, which is usually like Okay, so this is 521 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: how light can be generated. Each atom emits a unique 522 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: fingerprint on the light spectrum, and so that's how we're 523 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: able to identify these different gases based on their atomic 524 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: structure what elements they might be. Now, visible light is 525 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: a type of electromagnetic radiation. Light is composed of photons, 526 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: and photons are just packets of energy that move at 527 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the speed of light. But if they're stopped, they cease 528 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: to exist. So if a photon strikes an atom, it 529 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: can give up its energy under the right circumstances, and 530 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: in this process, the photon ceases to exist and the 531 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: electron gets excited. This is absorption. This is when light 532 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: gets absorbed. Okay, absorption occurs at specific energies in specific wavelengths, 533 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: and this is how we identify these gases that light 534 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: is passing through in space. Depending on what they are, 535 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: certain wavelengths will be removed from the light, which results 536 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: in dark lines. That's what they're referred to within the spectrum. 537 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: So let's apply this to s c P seven. Again, 538 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: this feels like a doctor who episode to me, like 539 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: like this creeping darkness and they're trying to figure out 540 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: how to get past it. So I looked into the 541 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: math of figuring out how many photons are admitted per 542 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: second by a seventy five watt bulb. It's possible to 543 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: figure this out as a chemistry problem. That's beyond our 544 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: scope here. I'm not gonna walk all the way through 545 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: the math, but I found someone else who did the 546 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: answer for us, and I think it's three point one 547 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: one four eight six e plus nineteen photons per second. So, 548 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: based on what we know about light absorption on the 549 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: atomic level, it sounds like the stairwell has some kind 550 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: of element and it maybe it's a gas that absorbs photons. 551 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: Above that level of three point one one four eight 552 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: six e plus nineteen, then something changes about the stairwells 553 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: atoms so they no longer absorb light and they create 554 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: dark lines in the spectrum. Maybe the electrons in this 555 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: darkness area are just returning to their ground state, or 556 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: is there something altering the wavelength of light as it's 557 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: entering this area. So another possibility is the Doppler effect. 558 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: This is the phenomenon of a shift in the frequency 559 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: or wavelength of light caused by motion at its source right, 560 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: So this can shift the spectrum towards blue or red ends, 561 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: creating different hues within light. It doesn't seem likely to 562 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: me that this is the case, because it would mean, 563 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: first of all, that there's something in the stairwell that 564 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: would be moving the light source. You'd think you'd be 565 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: aware of that. Maybe it's maybe it's the distressed children 566 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: or the Miyazaki monster, but but you don't seem to 567 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: see it at that point. The other reason is, even 568 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: if blue and red war shifted, you'd still have visible 569 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: light from the remaining photons. This seems to create total darkness. 570 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: So so, based on what you've said so far, it 571 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: sounds like the best case here is some sort of 572 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: gas combined with maybe some sort of meta material that's 573 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: coding the just the structures it's themselves. I think so, yeah, 574 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: I think that's my best guess that was at what 575 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: is going on here with the stairwell now, regarding the 576 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: weird face and the sound of the distress child and 577 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: the infinite stairwell, I'm I'm at a total loss. My 578 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: My best guest there is maybe because the stairwell is infinite, 579 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: the generated photons from the light source can't reach its 580 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: end even at light speed because it's infinite. But I'm 581 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: not sure My best guess though, is what you just 582 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: said that there's there's something going on with the amount 583 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: of photons that are generated per second, uh, and how 584 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: much can be absorbed by whatever material is in there. 585 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: So the stairwell is is generating something a field, some 586 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: kind of gas. Okay, Robert's got another one here. And 587 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: if you have also listened to our Frankenstein episode that's 588 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: been released this week, this will be familiar. It is 589 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: the homunculous, yes, and I'm gonna try not to repeat 590 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: myself on the two episodes too much here, So if 591 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: you have any questions from any about Homunculi, tune into 592 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: our Frankenstein episode as well. So this is SEP thirty 593 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: and here's the description. Sep thirty appears as a hairless, genderless, 594 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: grave toned humans, seventy one centimeter in height and weighing 595 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: twelve to British stones in antiquated measure. It's solid blue eyes, 596 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: lacked discernible irises or pupils, and remember and resemble small 597 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: cut sapphires. SEP thirty possesses an androgynous voice with a 598 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: pronounced English accident, not currently identifiable as specific to any 599 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: modern region. It is able to converse, read, and write 600 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: in Ancient Greek, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, and Portuguese, as 601 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: well as two additional languages that have not yet been identified, 602 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: despite SEP thirties insistence that they should be quote common knowledge. 603 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: STP thirty also demonstrated knowledge of physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics, 604 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: and horticulture roughly equivalent to that of a seventeenth century academic. 605 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: In addition, SEP thirty has demonstrated knowledge of these topics 606 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: along research lines that do not appear in the historical record. 607 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: These alternative or entirely unknown approaches to research in the 608 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: natural sciences are one source of SEP thirties utility and consultation. Okay, 609 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: so this immediately reminds me. You know the hell Boy 610 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: universe right? Oh? Yes, what Norman Roger Roger. Yeah, it 611 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: immediately makes me think of Roger the homunculus. Uh uh. 612 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: If anybody out there is not familiar with hell Boy. 613 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: In that universe, there's the bpr D, which is very 614 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: much like the SCP actually uh and uh. Roger is 615 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: one of their discoveries, but he's also an agent. Uh. 616 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: And he's he's a homunculous yeah, and that's that is Uh, 617 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: that's what we have here in Sep. Thirty an ammunculus homunculus. Uh, 618 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: that does seem to have a level intellivigence and alchemical 619 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: understanding that surpasses what typically passes for an amunculus in 620 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: most texts. Again more in common with with rod Or, 621 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: who is very much an intelligent individual. Well, I like 622 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: the idea that these things are built and then they're 623 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: effectively immortal, so they're hanging around for a long time. 624 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: They're just absorbing knowledge like a sponge. So of course 625 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: they'd be smart. Yeah, if you let one one live 626 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: long enough. So homuncular are one of my favorite subjects. 627 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: They're mean, creepy, weird little goblinoids that are made by wizards. 628 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what's not to love. Um, it's an artificial 629 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: humanoid created through alchemy, which again is that sixte through 630 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: eighteen century hodgepodge of occultist lower superstition and pre scientific chemistry. 631 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: So it's not quite a human. Uh, the creature is 632 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: a rational animal as it as it often was described. 633 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, another fictional page and humanity's dream 634 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: of mastering life and death. But one of the cool 635 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: things is that you when you start getting into the text. 636 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: Of course, you get into any alchemical text, and there's 637 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of weirdness and absurdity um and as well 638 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: as stuff that seems to be code for for other secrets. 639 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: It gets, you know, very byzantine. But the one one 640 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: that I was looking at in particular is the liberal 641 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: of the Libra of a cad the Book of the Cow, 642 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: and it lays out some rather grotesque and confusing instructions 643 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: in the art of do it yourself, homuncula brewing and 644 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: m Makey van der Gluck's Abominable Mixtures, the liber Vock 645 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: in the Medieval West, or the Dangers and Attractions of 646 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: Natural Magic really lays out some excellent commentary on what 647 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: it all means. That sounds like the kind of book 648 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: that you would find at Hogwarts Academy in the library. Indeed, 649 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna briefly roll through, uh the recipe 650 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: that is presented for the creation of a moncula. Do 651 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: not attempt this at home. You can, but you're gonna 652 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: reach the point where the ingredients do not exist, so 653 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,959 Speaker 1: good luck with it. Uh So, yeah, you're gonna create 654 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: one homunculi. You're gonna need a magicians semen. Okay, you're 655 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: gonna need animal blood. You're gonna need need a cow, 656 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: you can need us. You need some sulfur, a magnet. 657 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: But here's where it starts getting complicated. First, a large 658 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: glass or lead vessel, all right, it's gonna be a 659 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 1: little expensive. Then you're gonna need green tutuia tutilla, which 660 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: is a sulfite of iron. Right, you're gonna hunt around 661 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: for that. And oh yeah, you're gonna need the sunstone, 662 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: which is a mystical phosphorescent elicks sir. This is always 663 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: the case with alchemists, Right, It's like, here's a bunch 664 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: of like stuff that you put in this casserole. And 665 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: then oh yeah, you need this magical item that nobody 666 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: knows where it is yet, like a philosopher's by the way, 667 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: you're gonna need the Philosopher's stone, or you know what, 668 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: or some other magical album that doesn't quite exist. Right. 669 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: See it mixed the semen in the sunstone, and you 670 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: inseminate a cow. You carefully plug the animal up with 671 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: the sunstone, You smear the animal with with the blood 672 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: of another animal. You place the artificially inseminated animal. Then 673 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: inside a dark house where the sun never shines. Makes sense. 674 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: Then you feed the cow exclusively on the blood of 675 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: another animal. Then you prepare a powder of the ground sunstone, 676 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: sulfur magnet, and green tutilla, and then you stir with 677 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 1: the sap of a wide willow. Now at this point 678 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: the text indicates that the cow should give birth and 679 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: resulting unformed substance should be placed in the powder that 680 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: you just prepared, which will cause the amorphous blob to 681 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: grow human skin. And then you have a newborn humunculus 682 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: and a large glass or lead container, depending on which 683 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: one you used, and the creature will become crazy hungry 684 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: in this time. So you need to feed the blood 685 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: of its decapitated mother for seven days, and in this 686 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: time it should develop into a fully grown, tiny, grotesque 687 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: humanoid with some fragment of a human soul. All right, 688 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: I think I think I just got the idea for 689 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: a season five of Monster Science. How Dr Anton Jessup 690 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: can introduce the homunculous. You gotta do it like a 691 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: cooking show. It's like as if a Guy Fieri is 692 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: making a homunculous. Oh, I bet he has. I bet 693 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: he has made one before. Uh. The crazy thing though, 694 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: is that, you know, we get wrapped up in these 695 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: ideas of the creation of life, you know, the Frankenstein 696 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: myth that we uh we we discussed at length in 697 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: our in our other episode this week. But the creation 698 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: of the homunculi is not necessarily a means, you know, 699 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the end product. The idea then, is 700 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: that now that you have this homunculi, you're gonna use 701 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: it to create other things. So you're essentially going to 702 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: render it down and and use it in other recipes. 703 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: So in the in the text that I mentioned earlier, 704 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: they say, quote, if it is placed on a white 705 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: cloth with a mirror in its hands, uh and uh, 706 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: and suffumigated with a mixture of human blood and other ingredients, 707 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: the moon will appear to be full on the last 708 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: day of the month if you need to get around 709 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: at night, like maybe you need that for another spell. 710 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. If it is decapitated and it's blood 711 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: is given to a man to drink, the man will 712 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: assume the form of a bovine or a sheep. But 713 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: if he is anointed with it, he will have the 714 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: form of an ape. So this is like some searcy 715 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: one oh one stuff right here. Now, this is where 716 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 1: it starts getting potentially useful. If the homunculus is fed 717 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: for forty days in a dark house on a diet 718 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: of blood and milk, and then it's guts are extracted 719 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: from its belly and rubbed onto someone's hands and feet, 720 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: he may walk on water or travel around the world. 721 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: And the winking of an eye kept alive for a 722 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: year and then placed in a bath of milk and rainwater, 723 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: the homunculi will tell things that happened far away. Now 724 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: that that's your Homunculi horror movie right there, Like you 725 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 1: base it around that premise, and then somebody stumbles across 726 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: the dark house and they mess up this experiment. It 727 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: does create an even more horrific view of alchemy, like 728 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: not only are they creating horrible little abominations, but then 729 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: you're tormenting the abomination to pull off various other sorceress schemes. 730 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well it gets back to what we talked 731 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,760 Speaker 1: about in the Frankenstein episode, the ethics of creating life 732 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: from nothing. So yeah, it is we've discussed in that 733 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: Like we have this base the idea, you know, the 734 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: basic human ability to to imbue on living things with life. 735 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: You know, you paint a picture and then that picture 736 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: becomes the thing to a certain extent. So we kind 737 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: of create communcula every day, but it takes something like 738 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: the true mythic communculus or SCP thirty to drive home 739 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: just how weird that really is. All right, So my 740 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: next one is a far step from a homunculi, although 741 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: well we just don't know, because this is SCP fifty one, 742 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: which is cataloged as unknown because no one knows what 743 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: it is, and in fact, no one can remember that 744 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: it even exists. Half the time, no one can describe 745 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: what it is or its appearance. Somehow it erases any 746 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: memory of itself from a subject's mind. They can't describe it. 747 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: Even those who try to sketch a copy of a 748 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: photograph are unable to remember what it looks like. Watching 749 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: it on closed circuit cameras causes amnesia, and it's basically 750 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: called the self keeping secret. No one remembers how it 751 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: was brought to SCP or who built its containment room. 752 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot in the in the file on it 753 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: on the containment unit in the very particular ways it 754 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: has to be contained. But the most important thing is 755 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: that all personnel have to stay at least fifty meters 756 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: from the center of the room. Otherwise they just forget 757 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,720 Speaker 1: that it exists. Oh I, I love this. It's very 758 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: It sounds like something Borhees would have come up. You know, 759 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: it's like it's a paradox. It's the thought experiment. Even 760 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: those who talk about it, just the act of talking 761 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: about it seemed to forget that it existed shortly thereafter. Okay, 762 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: so what's the possible scientific tieing. Well, we can look 763 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: at amnesia or how to erase memories, and there are 764 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: a lot of ways to erase human memories, and in fact, 765 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: we're making a lot of headway with it right now 766 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 1: in modern science. But let's do a quick look at amnesia. 767 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: What is it. Well, it's a loss of memory from 768 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: physical or psychological conditions. Usually we're talking about a head trauma, 769 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: but sometimes disease or emotional trauma contributes to it as well. Now, 770 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: given the circumstances of SCP fifty five, I'm assuming it 771 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: has to do with emotional trauma, Like it's so emotionally 772 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: traumatizing to look at it or even talk about it 773 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: or think about it that your brain just just erases it. 774 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: But I don't know, UM, or could also be reaching 775 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: in with spores or something. They don't mention any traces 776 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: of physical signs, but that is possible as well. It 777 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: could be a disease, or maybe it's some kind of 778 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: physical manifestation that's localized to a fifty meteor radius. I 779 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: don't know, UM, But SCP fifty five doesn't seem to 780 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: be causing what's known as anterior grade amnesia because people 781 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: can form new memories. People with anterior grade amnesia cannot 782 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,879 Speaker 1: form new memories. Retrograde amnesia seems to be what's going 783 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: on here. That's when you're impeded from retrieving your previous memories. 784 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: If it's any kind of psychogenic amnesia, then it could 785 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: be dissociative or it could be like a fugue state, 786 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: possibly as a result of post traumatic stress disorder. So 787 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking again, it's causing such emotional stress that people 788 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 1: just completely forget about it. The reported symptoms, however, don't 789 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: seem to indicate that the creation of a dissociative identity 790 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: is going on here, So it's not like you go 791 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: in and you see it, and you create an entire 792 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: identity while you're seeing it, and then you're unable to 793 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: recall the memories of your identity that interacts with SCP 794 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,720 Speaker 1: fifty five. It's probably not ahead trauma like I was saying, 795 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: because we think there would be Yeah, there'd be evidence 796 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: unless it's electric. But even electro convulsive treatments usually lead 797 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: to interrograde amnesia and not retrograde. So okay, you could 798 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: possibly treat this as memory loss with drugs that use 799 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: active neuroep and nephron, But would the subject recall immediately 800 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: shut down their memories? Again, I don't know what if 801 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: they took the drugs though. What if they took drugs 802 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: that limited their perception skills while they were in contact 803 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: with SCPT, so maybe then they'd be able to remember it. 804 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Um. I looked to an article called 805 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: wiping the slate? Is playing with memory humane or is 806 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: it just wrong? From psychology today? And it's it covers 807 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: the the broad spectrum of ways in which we're able 808 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: to start erasing memories. Today, scientists have been using behavioral 809 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: conditioning and drugs that alter memory consolidation on the molecular 810 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: level to erase memories. They can delete memories and rats, 811 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: but we haven't really figured out how to target specific 812 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,840 Speaker 1: memories yet. And there's three ways that they're doing it. 813 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,919 Speaker 1: Propran and All is a beta blocker that they use, 814 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,319 Speaker 1: and it can weaken the link between the facts of 815 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: a memory and its emotional impact by blocking adrenaline and 816 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: other substances that ignite our fear response. Another possibility is 817 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: zeta inhibitor peptides. So what happens with these is they 818 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: inhibit our p k M zeta enzymes so that they 819 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: can't maintain or strengthen long term memories in our brains. So, 820 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: for instance, rats that are injected with this will walk 821 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: right into shock rigged obstacles that they've previously learned to avoid. Uh. 822 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: The last one is that our amygdala's seem to be 823 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: able to be overwritten by genetically disarmed herpes. UH. It 824 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: infiltrates and cripples the neural networks and a human brain, 825 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: but the current human application seems very far fetched to 826 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: be able to like isolate specific memories such as SCPT. 827 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: Could be an alien with some sort of space herpes maybe, 828 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: or or maybe it's just emitting propaninal or zeta inhibitors. 829 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: Who knows. Uh, let's look a little bit more at us. 830 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: We've talked about this on the show before, especially with 831 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: relation to PTSD and the use of m d m 832 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: A to treat it. Because PTSD memories remain horribly intense, 833 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: they're considered a disease of how memory works and in 834 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: the sense that they can't be forgotten. So PTSD subjects 835 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,919 Speaker 1: are actually often counseled to share their memories to try 836 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: to help in the act of forgetting. But this actually 837 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 1: rarely seems to help. However, I will acknowledge through our 838 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: m d m A episodes that does seem to help 839 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 1: them if they take m d M A and then 840 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: they go through counseling. Uh, because the m d m 841 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,240 Speaker 1: A helps them forget by associating those memories with trust 842 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: and a lack of fear. As we've talked about in 843 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: that if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommended 844 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,359 Speaker 1: our our two parter on m d M A and 845 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: the science behind it. This would you know thinking of it? 846 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: Of of this entity the specimen SPC fifty five as 847 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: an as a potential alien creature that emits some sort 848 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,240 Speaker 1: of psychoactive substance. Yeah, like clearly it's it's not emitting 849 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: m D M A. But that would be a wonderful 850 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: set out for some sort of science fiction. And maybe 851 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 1: it's before and alien just to be in its presence 852 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: without like a containment suit used to know, pure euphoria 853 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: and bliss. Right. Well, yeah, it automatic, it's like a 854 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: like like using pharama. Oh you know what it's like. 855 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: It's like um, David Tennant's character on Jessica Jones. It 856 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: creates trust and yeah, the Purple Man, I believe Killgrave. 857 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,400 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's like he's emitting uh something that makes 858 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: you trust him and have a lack of fear, total 859 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: lack of fear. But I don't know if that's what's 860 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: going on with that. CP fifty five could be uh, 861 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: memories themselves. Let's remember this. No, I didn't mean to 862 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: do that as a pun. They're not packets of data, 863 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: they're not constant. The very act of remembering changes a 864 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,480 Speaker 1: memory itself. This model has been shown at a molecular 865 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: level by neuroscientists, so therefore, memories can be altered by 866 00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: other chemicals, specifically that those that inhibit proteins sin the cysts. 867 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: So if new proteins can't be created during the act 868 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: of remembering, the original memory ceases to exist. So maybe 869 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: a SCP fifty five is suppressing protein creation. This would 870 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: make sense because based on what I've covered in the 871 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: past on potential memory erasure, like memories become susceptible to 872 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 1: to tweaking, to treating, or erasure when they are recalled. 873 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: Like if everyone I always think of memories is like 874 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: a clay sculpture. It's in a drawer, and anytime you 875 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: get it out, that's when you end up changing the 876 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: shape with your hands just by remembering it, and then 877 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: you put it back in the drawer. If it's in 878 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,560 Speaker 1: the drawer, it's harder to get to. But if you 879 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,920 Speaker 1: retrieve it, if you're retrieving the memory, if you're engaged 880 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,879 Speaker 1: with the memory, then it's susceptible. Well, the thing about 881 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,839 Speaker 1: SCP fifty five that makes it difficult to quantify this 882 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,760 Speaker 1: way is it somehow mimetic, because even the very mention 883 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 1: of it like that somehow passes on this possible protein 884 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 1: inhibition to other people, so they forget it too, Like 885 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: if you've never even encountered it and I tell you 886 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: about it, you'll forget about it. Uh So, perhaps the 887 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,839 Speaker 1: act of speaking about it somehow is passing along the 888 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: protein suppression. I don't know, like you get infected with 889 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 1: this protein suppression and then speaking passes that along to 890 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: another person. Not sure what's going on. If you couple 891 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: the drugs mentioned that I mentioned above U with what's 892 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,000 Speaker 1: known as reconsolidation memory therapy, you can get very specific 893 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: about which memories you want to erase. In fact, if 894 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: you inject a protein synthesis inhibitor in rats before they're 895 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: exposed to reconsolidation, they can be trained to forget all 896 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: their fear associations with something. So maybe what's going on 897 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,320 Speaker 1: is SCP fifty five reconsolidates your memories about it while 898 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: it's also emitting either protein inhibitors or one of these chemicals. 899 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,919 Speaker 1: It's basically providing you with therapy about it while you're 900 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: interacting with it. And depending on the ultimate nature of it, 901 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: maybe this is a beneficial thing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like 902 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: it's like, I know I'm horrible and you can't really 903 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,440 Speaker 1: comprehend me without going mad. So I'm gonna meet you 904 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,920 Speaker 1: halfway here, right here, I'll give you some drugs, and 905 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: I'll also talk you through it. Uh. There's a study 906 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,720 Speaker 1: where a team at Ricken m i t S. Center 907 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,000 Speaker 1: for Neural Circuit Genetics. They were able to alter bad 908 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: memories in mice using something called optogenetics. They inserted genetically 909 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,680 Speaker 1: encoded light responsive proteins into cells so they could pinpoint 910 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 1: where in the mouse's brain a negative memory was formed. 911 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,759 Speaker 1: Then they used lasers to manipulate the neurons in the 912 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 1: mouse brain so it forgot that memory completely. Another team 913 00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,880 Speaker 1: in ten use xenon gas as an anesthetic on mice 914 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,480 Speaker 1: to modify their memory consolidation, and that inhibited their n 915 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 1: m d A receptor brain activity in their brains, again 916 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,239 Speaker 1: reducing fear reactions. So this is something that science is 917 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,520 Speaker 1: playing around with a lot right now. And every article 918 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 1: I wrote read about it was like, yeah, it's not 919 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, YadA, YadA YadA, But 920 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: it seems like lasers, drugs, protein inhibitors, zenon gas, you 921 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,360 Speaker 1: name it. There are a lot of ways to biologically 922 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: alter our brains so we forget things. So SCP fifty 923 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: five could be any combination of things. Uh that you 924 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,400 Speaker 1: could either use chemicals or lasers or whatever. I'm gonna 925 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: go though with that, it causes such emotional trauma that 926 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 1: you don't remember it. The big question is how is 927 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,480 Speaker 1: it transmittable? Like, how does anybody out there? I'd love 928 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:51,680 Speaker 1: to know, how could something like this be a transmittable 929 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,200 Speaker 1: um memory erasure? How about this? Maybe it's not so 930 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: much transmitted. What if this is this entity you is 931 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: is something that has already been experienced by everyone, and 932 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,640 Speaker 1: therefore it's not so much that you're introducing me to 933 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 1: the idea of it, but you're reintroducing it. And and 934 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: any reintroduction to the specimen either it's it's actually now 935 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: you're either an actual encounter or just discussion of it 936 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,839 Speaker 1: of course ends up self deleting. So like what if 937 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: it you know, what if it's God and you see 938 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: this God right before you're born and then then you 939 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: enter this world, so everyone has a as a as 940 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: an existing memory, or maybe if you want to go 941 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,960 Speaker 1: even more fanciful and psychedelic, like everyone has like a 942 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,760 Speaker 1: race memory of this entity. Right, yeah, yeah, that would 943 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: make sense as well. Well, it's currently under containment, although 944 00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: probably thirty seconds after Robert and I uh finished talking 945 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,160 Speaker 1: about this We'll completely forget about SCP fifty five. We're 946 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,719 Speaker 1: going to talk about SCP to five eight four. Yes, 947 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,799 Speaker 1: SCP to five eight four. And this one, like like 948 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,239 Speaker 1: the last specimen we looked at, it's interesting because it 949 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,319 Speaker 1: represents a paradox. Here's the description. SCP to five eight 950 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,919 Speaker 1: four is a species of snake that has been classified 951 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: oxy Uranus or a boris. SCP four has no head 952 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,160 Speaker 1: or tail, as its body forms a continuous closed loop. Otherwise, 953 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,239 Speaker 1: SCP fours tissue and anatomy is completely normal, safe for 954 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 1: its circular spine, circulatory system, and digestive track. SCPO S 955 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,760 Speaker 1: four is able to achieve locomotion, but has no brain 956 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: sense of sight, hearing, taste, or smell, and thus is 957 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,840 Speaker 1: only capable of reflective movements to flee from danger after 958 00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 1: injury or move towards warmer areas. Otherwise, instances tend to 959 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:49,080 Speaker 1: remain still or spin in place. So I'm just imagining 960 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,960 Speaker 1: it's a circular snake body with no head, no tail, 961 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: but when it moves it is just kind of rolling 962 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: around like a hula hoop on the ground. Basically, yeah, 963 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 1: imagine a snake who hoop, Yeah, and that's what this 964 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,200 Speaker 1: thing is. So the description goes into state that it 965 00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:10,720 Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't breathe, It depends on an unknown energy source. Again, 966 00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,560 Speaker 1: it has no brain. Yeah, and uh, the detective it's 967 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: digestive tracks seems to cycle the same matter continuously, but 968 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: it's somehow able to gain metabolic energy with each cycle 969 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,040 Speaker 1: without without expending any of the nutrients. And it reproduces 970 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,759 Speaker 1: via as osmosis into two hoops. So, uh, what we 971 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,200 Speaker 1: have here is they've actually got a room full of 972 00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,480 Speaker 1: these things. It's not just one, I guess, or at 973 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,560 Speaker 1: least they have, you know, and given point, I don't 974 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: know if they sell them in the SEP gifts. Maybe 975 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,000 Speaker 1: the SEP employees use them as hula hoops for their kids. 976 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 1: They only keep one in the containment solid a time 977 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,200 Speaker 1: because they're kind of like troubles right in that sense. 978 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: They seem to have no they lack the necessary openings, 979 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: right Yeah. Yeah, there's no obvious reproductive capabilities. Yeah. So 980 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,040 Speaker 1: so what we have here, and one of this is 981 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,280 Speaker 1: I think interesting, is that you basically have an imaginative 982 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 1: sci Fi send up of the mythical or a boris 983 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,880 Speaker 1: the tail consuming serpent, which has been a potent symbol 984 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: since ancient times. I mean, you see examples of it 985 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: from you know, neolithic cultures, you see it in ancient Egypt. Um. 986 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,520 Speaker 1: It kind of it basically emerged in ancient times as 987 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,280 Speaker 1: basically a symbol or a motif, and then as human 988 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,560 Speaker 1: culture advances, we end up applying all sorts of different 989 00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,320 Speaker 1: reads to what it might mean. Uh. Plutarch, for instance, 990 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: when when it came around his time, he described it 991 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: as like this, he said, quote it feeds upon its 992 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 1: own body. Even so all things spring from God and 993 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:51,279 Speaker 1: will be resolved into the Deity. Again, so interpretations vary, 994 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 1: they get increasingly more complex and spiritual. UM in Hinduism 995 00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 1: or a boras symbolism is sometimes ties in to Kundalini 996 00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,040 Speaker 1: energy with the Kundalini serpent um. You see it in 997 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 1: South American art um. You see it in the a 998 00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,680 Speaker 1: Gnostic beliefs. The aura borus is the soul of the world. 999 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: It's um. So it goes from just being this idea, 1000 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: almost this kind of primitive childlike idea of like what 1001 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: if a snake bit its own tail, where the snake 1002 00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,560 Speaker 1: try to eat its own tail, and then it evolves 1003 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 1: into this paradoxical idea of something without beginning or end. Yeah, 1004 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: it's um. I've always thought of it as being both 1005 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,760 Speaker 1: like a symbol of the circle of life, which I 1006 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,520 Speaker 1: guess you could see SCP two five eight four is 1007 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: being a perfect representation of. But but it's also like 1008 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,040 Speaker 1: representative of just like the quixotic nature of doing things 1009 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 1: over and over again and expecting different results. Yeah, that's true. 1010 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,720 Speaker 1: It kind of depends what your your take on infinity 1011 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,040 Speaker 1: is because you can look at the oora borus, Oh, 1012 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: that poor snake, it's constantly being eaten eaten, or you 1013 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: can say, oh, that's snake, he's really got it made. 1014 00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: It always has a meals never hungry, because it also 1015 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,520 Speaker 1: never the glass half full kind of situation. Because I 1016 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,760 Speaker 1: guess you can look at it too and say that 1017 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,800 Speaker 1: the ara borus never vanishes in the araborus doesn't blink 1018 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:16,800 Speaker 1: out of existence because it cannot digest itself. Fun fact 1019 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,760 Speaker 1: from our X Files episode Agent Scully has one tattoo 1020 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,120 Speaker 1: and it is the Ora boros. Oh where does she 1021 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,200 Speaker 1: have the tattoo. It's on the back of her neck, 1022 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,960 Speaker 1: I think, And there's some implication that she may be 1023 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,720 Speaker 1: immortal because she has it. Really well that that again 1024 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: there are ties to undying nature. Uh, as we saw 1025 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,479 Speaker 1: in that Plutarch quote. Um. You you also see other 1026 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,640 Speaker 1: sort of mythical and folklore creatures that coming from time 1027 00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,280 Speaker 1: to time. There's the hoop snake, which was a creature 1028 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: from the lumberjack folklore of Wisconsin and Minnesota during the 1029 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,320 Speaker 1: nineteenth and twentieth century, the centuries the fearsome critters as 1030 00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,320 Speaker 1: they were called, and this was a snake that would 1031 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,880 Speaker 1: bite its own tail and roll around on ground like 1032 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: a like a who um. But we also see some 1033 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,520 Speaker 1: interesting scientific examples, so you'll you'll obviously you'll occasionally run 1034 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,720 Speaker 1: across tails of auto cannibalism and snakes of snakes actually 1035 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 1: biting or trying to eat their tail, particularly when you're 1036 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,880 Speaker 1: dealing with snakes in captivity. But you but you also 1037 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,520 Speaker 1: have a few animals that engage in or a boris 1038 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:27,840 Speaker 1: like actions. So there's the South African armadillo girdled lizard 1039 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: that actually bites its own tail, curls up and uses 1040 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 1: the bite to keep hold of its tail. So it's 1041 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 1: a beautiful little creature. It doesn't roll around like this, 1042 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,360 Speaker 1: but it just uses its way to protect itself. But 1043 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: bite onto its own tail, like maximizes its defensive capabilities. Yeah, 1044 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,560 Speaker 1: and then you'll find other lizards and animals that curl 1045 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: up and sometimes even roll, but don't actually bite under 1046 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,440 Speaker 1: their tail. For instance, mount Lyle salamanders, they'll curl up 1047 00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: and roll downhill, but there's no biting or But back 1048 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:05,080 Speaker 1: to the specimen here. So it becomes difficult to try 1049 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,520 Speaker 1: and imagine how this creature could actually exist because it's 1050 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,400 Speaker 1: um it's an impossibility. It's a self sustaining system, a 1051 01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: perpetual motion a machine. Uh, And of course perpetual motion 1052 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,280 Speaker 1: design machines cannot exist because of friction and energy dissipation. 1053 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 1: Like you can't make a machine that will work forever 1054 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,120 Speaker 1: without having some energy input coming along and and charging 1055 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,120 Speaker 1: it back up again. Likewise, even if you took out 1056 01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,800 Speaker 1: breathing concerns lack of a brain, if you just had 1057 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:38,160 Speaker 1: this hoop snake creature like this specimen, and it had 1058 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 1: a meal in its belly going round and round like how, 1059 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: you couldn't draw on that meal forever. I mean, even 1060 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,920 Speaker 1: if it were an everlasting god stopper, right, it would 1061 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: could not sustain itself unless the meal and its belly 1062 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,400 Speaker 1: was like a wormhole opening up to a like a 1063 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,800 Speaker 1: food world. But no, these are similar questions, like you 1064 01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: can't have the same meal digestive eternally it's right, and 1065 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:07,280 Speaker 1: they're diminishing returns and uh. And likewise, spur if it 1066 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 1: just says that one thing and it's belly, it's not, 1067 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean, how would that possibly work? Yeah, some kind 1068 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:16,959 Speaker 1: of food is being teleported into its belly from somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, 1069 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: we're faced with maybe another SCP is responsible for there 1070 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,360 Speaker 1: you go. If there's some sort of an SCP mouse 1071 01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:29,600 Speaker 1: that is eternally regenerating, perhaps through a wormhole, then this 1072 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,400 Speaker 1: creature eats it at some point. But then how does 1073 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,240 Speaker 1: how does it eat? It doesn't have a mouth it 1074 01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,120 Speaker 1: would have. That's the wonderful nature of it. Is just 1075 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 1: a complete paradox. Yeah yeah, um, well, it's certainly worth 1076 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,120 Speaker 1: thinking about as an exercise and understanding anatomy, and and 1077 01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:49,360 Speaker 1: definitely energy consumption to that's for sure. I guess the 1078 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,320 Speaker 1: only the only answer I can get for SP eight 1079 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: four is that it might be God to go back 1080 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,360 Speaker 1: to polutar. This might be a manifestation of the mystery 1081 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:04,880 Speaker 1: of the divine. Mmmm. That is worth chewing on literally. 1082 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: I wonder what SCP for tastes like chicken. Probably probably Yeah. Well, 1083 01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: speaking of the ethics of science, that leads us to 1084 01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,840 Speaker 1: our last s CP specimen to thirty one, which is 1085 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,920 Speaker 1: referred to as Special Personnel Requirements. I really like this 1086 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:32,600 Speaker 1: one because it leads us to talking about the Millgrim 1087 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 1: experiment and a lot about the ethics and sort of 1088 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: point of scientific experimentation. Here's the description of SCP two 1089 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: thirty one. It's a it's a girl, possibly a baby, 1090 01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,200 Speaker 1: that has to be subjected to something called the mon 1091 01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:51,080 Speaker 1: Talk procedure. Now we're never told what the details of 1092 01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,240 Speaker 1: this are, but it sounds awful. Uh. Most of the 1093 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: detail in the description goes into the requirements for the 1094 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,880 Speaker 1: personnel that are attending to s C. They have to 1095 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,240 Speaker 1: undergo heavy psychological testing. They have to be unmarried, have 1096 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:11,400 Speaker 1: no children, and express total loyalty to the SCP, and 1097 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,280 Speaker 1: if they express any sympathy to the subject, they're immediately 1098 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,560 Speaker 1: transferred off the project. When they're on site, they wear 1099 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:23,320 Speaker 1: helmets to conceal their identity and voice, and basically STP 1100 01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,400 Speaker 1: two thirte whatever it is, is strapped down all the 1101 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,360 Speaker 1: time except for when they're subjected to this horrible procedure 1102 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,600 Speaker 1: once every twenty four hours. The subject doesn't actually seem 1103 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,160 Speaker 1: to be that important to the entry. The story goes 1104 01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,160 Speaker 1: that they're the seventh child born out of some kind 1105 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,520 Speaker 1: of cult organization, that the first six subjects were its siblings, 1106 01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,840 Speaker 1: and they were killed in various results from this procedure 1107 01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:54,480 Speaker 1: or the containment this mon Tauk procedure. The personnel that 1108 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,120 Speaker 1: work on this are told that if they don't subject 1109 01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 1: SCP two one to this horrible mont talk procedure, it 1110 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,080 Speaker 1: will result in the end of the world. So some 1111 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:08,200 Speaker 1: of the personnel also have their memory is altered, maybe 1112 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:13,080 Speaker 1: by SCP fift We're not sure. Uh, but they basically 1113 01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 1: forget that they ever performed their duties in relation to 1114 01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:21,320 Speaker 1: this project. This pop culture wise, immediately made me think 1115 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,400 Speaker 1: of Stranger Things. Now. I don't want to I don't 1116 01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: want to spoil Stranger Things at all, but uh, you know, 1117 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 1: the original title for the show was montalk Um, So 1118 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,520 Speaker 1: I wonder I don't know which came first, s CP 1119 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,560 Speaker 1: to thirty one or the TV show, or maybe they're 1120 01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,080 Speaker 1: somehow connected, like maybe the anonymous author is one of 1121 01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,520 Speaker 1: the people behind Stranger things. But um, yeah, the show 1122 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,080 Speaker 1: was originally called Montalk and Uh, the idea of this 1123 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,160 Speaker 1: secret project that's working, you know, doing terrible unethical things 1124 01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,000 Speaker 1: to a girl, it's interesting. It brings us right around 1125 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,360 Speaker 1: to the Millgrim experiment. The reason why is one of 1126 01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,920 Speaker 1: the things they say about this SCP is that all 1127 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,680 Speaker 1: of the personnel have to pass the Milgram experiment, meaning 1128 01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,480 Speaker 1: that they have to take it all the way. Uh. 1129 01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,480 Speaker 1: If you are unfamiliar with the Milgram experiment, it is 1130 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:15,920 Speaker 1: one of the most controversial and highly publicized psychological studies 1131 01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,120 Speaker 1: ever conducted. I would say, yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely 1132 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: up there. We've we've touched on it in past episodes before. Um, 1133 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,560 Speaker 1: it's anytime you see a list of like the the 1134 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,760 Speaker 1: most the weirdest, most unethical experiments, it tends to show 1135 01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 1: upright at the top. Yeah. So if you've never heard 1136 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,040 Speaker 1: of it, this is how it goes. It was performed 1137 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one and nineteen sixty two, and it 1138 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,080 Speaker 1: was designed to measure the extent to which ordinary people 1139 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:45,120 Speaker 1: would inflict pain on other people when they are instructed 1140 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,080 Speaker 1: to do so by an authoritative figure. It was very 1141 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:53,920 Speaker 1: controversial because the people were putting these situations without informed consent, 1142 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,600 Speaker 1: and it was influenced by accounts Milgram heard of Nazi atrocities. 1143 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,440 Speaker 1: He wanted to measure how willing the average person would 1144 01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,720 Speaker 1: be to obey institutionalized authority, and he actually received a 1145 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,680 Speaker 1: grant from the National Science Foundation to do this. Conducted 1146 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,680 Speaker 1: the experiments at Yale from sixty one to sixty two. 1147 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,400 Speaker 1: Now you may have heard of this in relation to 1148 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,160 Speaker 1: the phrase the banality of evil. It's often attributed to 1149 01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,640 Speaker 1: this study, but it was actually coined by Hannah Arrant 1150 01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:25,440 Speaker 1: in her book Aikman in Jerusalem. She was reporting on 1151 01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,360 Speaker 1: Adolph Aikman's trial in nineteen sixty one. Aikman was a 1152 01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,240 Speaker 1: Nazi commander who helped orchestrate the Holocaust. Now, Arrant's theory 1153 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,680 Speaker 1: was that Aikman was an associopath. He was just an 1154 01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:42,400 Speaker 1: average person following orders. Milgram speaks to these ideas in 1155 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,880 Speaker 1: his book Obedience to Authority, which is sort of the 1156 01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,400 Speaker 1: publication of his his results, but he published it much later, 1157 01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,360 Speaker 1: I let's say, like ten years later. So basically, the 1158 01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,840 Speaker 1: question raised by the experiment is could basically any office 1159 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,360 Speaker 1: uh be a part of some atrocity chain who were 1160 01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,160 Speaker 1: just in the in the position to to receive those 1161 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 1: orders exactly. And this is how the experiment worked. There 1162 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,640 Speaker 1: were three people in each situation, a supervisor, a learner, 1163 01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,920 Speaker 1: and a teacher. However, the only subject that was actually 1164 01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,400 Speaker 1: under scrutiny was the teacher. The other two people were 1165 01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:19,040 Speaker 1: just actors. The teacher was uninformed about the true nature 1166 01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,880 Speaker 1: of the experiment, and the supervisor would tell them that 1167 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,320 Speaker 1: what they were doing was determining whether punishment in the 1168 01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:28,520 Speaker 1: form of electric shocks would promote learning. So usually the 1169 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,760 Speaker 1: person playing the role of the learner was in another 1170 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,240 Speaker 1: room and the teacher was seated in front of an 1171 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,800 Speaker 1: apparatus that would pretend to shock the learner with somewhere 1172 01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 1: between fifteen and four hundred and fifty volts. The teacher 1173 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,560 Speaker 1: was then instructed to give a long multiple choice test 1174 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:47,600 Speaker 1: to the learner, and every time they had an incorrect answer, 1175 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,600 Speaker 1: the teacher was supposed to administer the shock, upping the 1176 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:55,000 Speaker 1: voltage fifteen volts each time. No one was actually shocked 1177 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: in this experiment. The learner just pretended that they were 1178 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,120 Speaker 1: being shocked until it reached three fifteen volts. They would 1179 01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,240 Speaker 1: scream and you know, pretend like they're in agony at 1180 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,720 Speaker 1: volts though, they would just stop making sounds like presumably 1181 01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,160 Speaker 1: they passed out or something. And I think a lot 1182 01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,320 Speaker 1: of these instances they were in a separate room and 1183 01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:18,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't see each other if they refused. If the 1184 01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:22,800 Speaker 1: if the learner refused, the experiments stopped, but the supervisor 1185 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,920 Speaker 1: usually would direct them to just keep continuing. Otherwise they 1186 01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:31,240 Speaker 1: would keep going until they reached four hundred and fifty volts. Uh. Now, 1187 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,439 Speaker 1: let's be clear, the truth was always revealed to the 1188 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,040 Speaker 1: teacher afterwards. They always told them what was actually going 1189 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,599 Speaker 1: on um And the results were as such, sixty five 1190 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,400 Speaker 1: of the participants kept going all the way to four 1191 01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,879 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty volts. None of them insisted on stopping 1192 01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,960 Speaker 1: before three hundred volts. Whether or not Milgram used women 1193 01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,120 Speaker 1: or men in this experiment did not change the results. 1194 01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:02,960 Speaker 1: But when the physical proximity increase, the obedience factor decreased slightly, 1195 01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,120 Speaker 1: meaning when the teacher and the learner were closer to 1196 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,840 Speaker 1: each other, they were less likely to go all the 1197 01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,639 Speaker 1: way with the shocks. This one is where it gets 1198 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:14,640 Speaker 1: really scary. When a teacher was joined by actors posing 1199 01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,920 Speaker 1: as other teachers, their conformity rose all the way to 1200 01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:24,439 Speaker 1: n So. Okay, the reason why we all know about 1201 01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,439 Speaker 1: this experiment is it's been highly criticized for its ethics, 1202 01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,280 Speaker 1: specifically that it did not supply the subjects with informed 1203 01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: consent and it exposed them to overly stressful and embarrassing situations. Milgram, however, 1204 01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:40,799 Speaker 1: defended it, and he said, look, we've got this survey. 1205 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,360 Speaker 1: It's an exit survey that we do with with everybody 1206 01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,600 Speaker 1: that's done it, of those people were glad to have participated. 1207 01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Some of them even said by doing the experiment it 1208 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:55,200 Speaker 1: made them more ethically sensitive. Now, we talked about this 1209 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,880 Speaker 1: in the Frankenstein episode. We were sort of pretending what 1210 01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:01,720 Speaker 1: if Frankenstein had to apply for an i RB. This 1211 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,520 Speaker 1: is one of those studies that led to the Belmont 1212 01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,320 Speaker 1: Report and having to have IRB approval before you do 1213 01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,920 Speaker 1: any kind of scientific experiment in an institutional stucause, you 1214 01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,559 Speaker 1: don't want to conduct an experiment that is putting people 1215 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,679 Speaker 1: through the emotional ringer. Yeah, unless that mean, unless there's 1216 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,200 Speaker 1: full uh you know, knowledge of it going in, which 1217 01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,519 Speaker 1: which is part of the experiment is that they did 1218 01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,640 Speaker 1: not have that noted exactly. Uh. This is why the 1219 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:31,080 Speaker 1: American Psychological Association formulated its principles for research with humans. 1220 01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,519 Speaker 1: This is why it requires all research to receive approval 1221 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,720 Speaker 1: by RBS. UH. In fact, uh an I RB did 1222 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:43,880 Speaker 1: approve social psychologist Jerry M. Berger to obtain permission to 1223 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,320 Speaker 1: partially replicate the experiment, but he stopped at a hundred 1224 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,719 Speaker 1: and fifty volts when the actor began to scream. However, 1225 01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,400 Speaker 1: his results up until that point were similar to millgrooms. 1226 01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: So this is something that's worth considering. And in fact, 1227 01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:59,800 Speaker 1: I want, once upon a time pitched a show here 1228 01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:03,200 Speaker 1: at out stuff works that would would be entirely about 1229 01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,559 Speaker 1: studies like this. This study could never be done legally today, 1230 01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,080 Speaker 1: and that's that's a good thing. I think we can 1231 01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,680 Speaker 1: all agree on that. And yet it is incredibly influential 1232 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:17,719 Speaker 1: on our understanding of human psychology. Our overall knowledge of 1233 01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,800 Speaker 1: things has has uh improved, I think you could say 1234 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,280 Speaker 1: based on this study. So what other lessons have we 1235 01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:30,040 Speaker 1: learned from unethical science? And what lessons are we missing? 1236 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:33,320 Speaker 1: And then let's get back to this SCP, like, what 1237 01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:35,800 Speaker 1: is it ultimately about? I don't think it's about the girl. 1238 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,799 Speaker 1: It's more about the personnel, right, It's about the horror 1239 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,960 Speaker 1: that is this great social significance of what human beings 1240 01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,840 Speaker 1: are capable of. Well, and supposedly they're saving the world. Yeah, exactly, 1241 01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,160 Speaker 1: that's what they're told. Yeah, and that's where it gets 1242 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,360 Speaker 1: really interesting. There's there's a couple of studies here I 1243 01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,400 Speaker 1: want to get into. Uh. I have two studies I 1244 01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,680 Speaker 1: want to talk about that are related to Millgram that 1245 01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,400 Speaker 1: have recently been published. The first is called why People Kill, 1246 01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,000 Speaker 1: and it was published in the Chronicle of Higher Education. Uh. 1247 01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:09,680 Speaker 1: It reminds us as well of another infamous case, the 1248 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:14,720 Speaker 1: Stanford Prison Experiment. In nineteen Yeah, if you're unfamiliar with that, 1249 01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,960 Speaker 1: one psychologist Philip G. S Embardo randomly assigned Stanford University 1250 01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,400 Speaker 1: students to play roles as prisoners and guards. Within days, 1251 01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,400 Speaker 1: the people who are playing guards were abusing the prisoners. 1252 01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,760 Speaker 1: The prisoners themselves became passive. The study actually had to 1253 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,040 Speaker 1: be called off. There's another study as well that I 1254 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:35,080 Speaker 1: was unfamiliar with. Its referenced in here Muzafar Sheriff's nineteen 1255 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,400 Speaker 1: fifty four study on how competition can escalate into conflict. 1256 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,599 Speaker 1: He divided adolescent boys into two teams, and he pitted 1257 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,200 Speaker 1: them against each other at certain tasks. Uh, it also 1258 01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 1: had to be called off because violence started between the boys. 1259 01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,080 Speaker 1: So what's going on here? Why are we circling around 1260 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:55,360 Speaker 1: back to these projects? Because it feels like this, and 1261 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,200 Speaker 1: this is the argument of this paper, it feels like 1262 01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,200 Speaker 1: we're at a time where we're very concerned about violence 1263 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,479 Speaker 1: and the possibility that good people will do bad things. Right, So, 1264 01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,160 Speaker 1: think of the presidential election right now, and like the 1265 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:10,759 Speaker 1: rhetoric that's being tossed around about what people are capable 1266 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,040 Speaker 1: of and how we have to defend ourselves against them. 1267 01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:15,800 Speaker 1: So this kind of stuff is in the air. People 1268 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:20,479 Speaker 1: are thinking about it a lot. There's very apocalyptic thoughts 1269 01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,920 Speaker 1: in people's minds about what we're all capable of doing 1270 01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,040 Speaker 1: to one another. I mean, I would say that that 1271 01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:29,759 Speaker 1: is generally more of the like the standard human experience, 1272 01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,280 Speaker 1: and we in this country and in other countries, we've 1273 01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:37,000 Speaker 1: just been lucky to not have that being unconscious us. 1274 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:39,960 Speaker 1: I think, I think you're probably right. Yeah, it's only 1275 01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,320 Speaker 1: now that we're we're having to come to grips with 1276 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:47,599 Speaker 1: this reality. Um, the studies themselves presume that people aren't 1277 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:52,240 Speaker 1: born bad necessarily, but that we're all coerced or seduced, 1278 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,320 Speaker 1: or otherwise lead into violent behavior. Now, the author of 1279 01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:58,559 Speaker 1: this article, not Milgram, but the author of this one. 1280 01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:02,280 Speaker 1: He argues this is out of date thinking as well 1281 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,639 Speaker 1: as the idea of any kind of pure nature oriented view. 1282 01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,960 Speaker 1: So that's worth thinking about. In conjunction with this SCP, 1283 01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:11,800 Speaker 1: I want to give you a Millgrim quote though, to 1284 01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,679 Speaker 1: to pause and sort of think about here. Milgrim himself said, 1285 01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,760 Speaker 1: ordinary people simply doing their jobs and without any particular 1286 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,439 Speaker 1: hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible 1287 01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:27,320 Speaker 1: destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their 1288 01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:31,120 Speaker 1: work become patently clear and they are asked to carry 1289 01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:36,120 Speaker 1: out actions incompatible with the fundamental standards of morality, relatively 1290 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:41,080 Speaker 1: few people have the resources needed to resist authority. That's 1291 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,280 Speaker 1: really interesting to think about. I mean think about it, 1292 01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,560 Speaker 1: not not just from this level of like Nazis committing atrocities, 1293 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,800 Speaker 1: but like your jobs, like think about the like hierarchical 1294 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,000 Speaker 1: structure in a job, workplace or whatever. Because it's one 1295 01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,679 Speaker 1: thing to imagine Nazis and have your your idea colored 1296 01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,840 Speaker 1: by all these story worry about portrayals of Nazis, and 1297 01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:03,640 Speaker 1: you can easily think oh, I would stand up for that. 1298 01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,240 Speaker 1: I would be one of the good people. But but yeah, 1299 01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:14,160 Speaker 1: I think of all the smaller, mundane actions of authority. Yeah, yeah, 1300 01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,479 Speaker 1: it's it's really worth thinking about. And that brought me 1301 01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:20,920 Speaker 1: to um. This article called just Obeying Orders out of 1302 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,679 Speaker 1: New Scientists. It was published in and they took the point, 1303 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,960 Speaker 1: they said. Milgram later developed his idea of a mundane 1304 01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: inclination to obey orders of authority into something he called 1305 01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,679 Speaker 1: a gentic state theory. This was in his nineteen seventy 1306 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,080 Speaker 1: four book Obedience to Authority, the same one where he 1307 01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:41,120 Speaker 1: talks about Hannah Aaron's finality of evil. And according to Milgram, 1308 01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,880 Speaker 1: the essence of obedience consists in the fact that a 1309 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,960 Speaker 1: person comes to view themselves as the instrument for carrying 1310 01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,400 Speaker 1: out another person's wishes, and they therefore no longer see 1311 01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:56,639 Speaker 1: themselves as responsible for their actions. Once this critical shift 1312 01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,920 Speaker 1: of viewpoint has occurred in a person, all of the 1313 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,160 Speaker 1: essential features of obedience follow. So when you go back 1314 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,040 Speaker 1: to this SCP, right, we've got this I don't know 1315 01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,559 Speaker 1: cultist child strapped down to a gurney and she has 1316 01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,720 Speaker 1: to be tortured with the Montauk experiment once a day 1317 01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,000 Speaker 1: basically gets back to it that the reason why is 1318 01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:19,439 Speaker 1: because the personnel are all willing to shift viewpoints like 1319 01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:25,320 Speaker 1: this right now. The authors of this article and new scientists, 1320 01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,559 Speaker 1: they argue against Milgram's theory actually, and they cite recent 1321 01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:33,320 Speaker 1: historical studies that question Errant's interpretation of Aikman as well 1322 01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:37,280 Speaker 1: as Milgram's claim that human beings are programmed to obey authority. 1323 01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,160 Speaker 1: I just want to pause here for I never took 1324 01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:43,760 Speaker 1: that to be his claim. I always thought, um that 1325 01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:47,240 Speaker 1: the fact that they recognize that he saw these as 1326 01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:51,960 Speaker 1: studies as disobedience as much as obedience, his argument to 1327 01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,080 Speaker 1: me doesn't seem to be deterministic about human nature, right that. 1328 01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean, he makes the point like at least ten 1329 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,559 Speaker 1: percent of people, even when there's these actors involved, are 1330 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,559 Speaker 1: going to disobey authority. Right, So it's not necessarily like 1331 01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,599 Speaker 1: he's saying this is this is it, this is exactly 1332 01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:10,880 Speaker 1: what humanity is. No. Yeah, he's saying that, I mean, 1333 01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,439 Speaker 1: there's it is a silver lining, and that a certain 1334 01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,040 Speaker 1: percentage of individuals would seemingly always stand up to some 1335 01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:20,160 Speaker 1: sort of injustice like this. Yeah, I guess the the 1336 01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,360 Speaker 1: depressing part is when you have to ask, well, is 1337 01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:25,519 Speaker 1: that percentage high enough to make a difference? And even 1338 01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,160 Speaker 1: a very democratic process much less you know the inner 1339 01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:35,599 Speaker 1: workings of a shadowy organization that tends to weird alien Exactly, Yeah, exactly, 1340 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,720 Speaker 1: And that's why I love this one. It's like, you know, 1341 01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,760 Speaker 1: when you really think about it, beyond just like you know, 1342 01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:47,280 Speaker 1: the idea of this mysterious cultists, uh, with a experiment 1343 01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,240 Speaker 1: performed against their will every twenty four hours, there's like 1344 01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:54,680 Speaker 1: a lot of meat on the bone, like ethically thematically 1345 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,719 Speaker 1: going on with just the short, little creepy pasta yeah, 1346 01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,479 Speaker 1: and and asking basic ethical questions, does like this is 1347 01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,800 Speaker 1: saving the world worth this? This one individual injustice? Does 1348 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,479 Speaker 1: we do do the rights of all outweigh the rights 1349 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,240 Speaker 1: of one? Well, let's factor this in because I think 1350 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,519 Speaker 1: this is where it gets even more complicated. Uh. Has 1351 01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Leam and Rich are the authors of this study from 1352 01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:23,400 Speaker 1: They argue, what's really going on is a balance between 1353 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:27,240 Speaker 1: obedience and disobedience that's based on whether or not the 1354 01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:31,040 Speaker 1: person in the teacher role prioritizes the voice of the 1355 01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:35,360 Speaker 1: supervisor over the voice of the learner. And to them, 1356 01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,680 Speaker 1: this reflects whether the person identifies with the cause of 1357 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:44,040 Speaker 1: science or more with the plight of the ordinary citizens. 1358 01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:46,400 Speaker 1: So this is really interesting to me. It's like it 1359 01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:48,760 Speaker 1: puts them in in one of two camps, right that 1360 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:54,160 Speaker 1: the in this case with the SCP, that this science 1361 01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:56,840 Speaker 1: is going to save the world, right at least that's 1362 01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,639 Speaker 1: what they're told, or the plight of this ordinary girl 1363 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:04,160 Speaker 1: who is being tortured by the Montauk experiment, in which case, 1364 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,320 Speaker 1: if that's it, the order's position the experiment as being 1365 01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:11,240 Speaker 1: a worthy cause that must be pursued. So the level 1366 01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:15,000 Speaker 1: of identification between the supervisor and the learner is really important, 1367 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,320 Speaker 1: but so too is how much they identify with the 1368 01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:23,080 Speaker 1: cause of capital s science. It's very interesting, especially like 1369 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:28,320 Speaker 1: I think from our our shows sort of viewpoint. Yeah, yeah, 1370 01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,320 Speaker 1: I mean what what ultimately is driving the research and 1371 01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:34,679 Speaker 1: the researchers this idea that that science is this thing 1372 01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:39,560 Speaker 1: beyond us and then we're just near vessels for its 1373 01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:44,520 Speaker 1: inquisitive nature, or are we individuals engaging in a collective 1374 01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:49,760 Speaker 1: effort to better the human experience and human knowledge? Absolutely, yeah, 1375 01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,400 Speaker 1: it makes I think that this is one of those 1376 01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:54,480 Speaker 1: things that like we can pull out and it's applicable 1377 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,920 Speaker 1: to almost every episode we've done, right, Like, what, what's 1378 01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,120 Speaker 1: the goal of this project? What's the what's the reason 1379 01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,640 Speaker 1: are we doing this for sciences? SACA? It brings us 1380 01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,080 Speaker 1: back to cargo cult science, right or is it you know, 1381 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,040 Speaker 1: is it somehow affecting the ordinary man somehow? So to 1382 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,360 Speaker 1: this end, these authors did three studies and one they 1383 01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:16,799 Speaker 1: used virtual reality to replicate millgram set up, and another 1384 01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,240 Speaker 1: they asked people to describe groups of other people using 1385 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:24,160 Speaker 1: pejorative terms, and this range from the KKK to a 1386 01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,479 Speaker 1: family walking in the park. In their final study, they 1387 01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,719 Speaker 1: had actors perform all of Milgram's set up, so even 1388 01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,800 Speaker 1: the teacher role was performed by an actor. When they 1389 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,599 Speaker 1: recorded the reactions as if the actors were inhabiting these characters, 1390 01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:41,880 Speaker 1: and they found, once again, Milgram's results were almost exactly 1391 01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,559 Speaker 1: reproduced with these actors. So they basically found an increase 1392 01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:51,559 Speaker 1: in identification with science leads people to persist longer in 1393 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:55,000 Speaker 1: these unpleasant tasks. Uh. And the last thing I want 1394 01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,599 Speaker 1: to say about this, there's a researcher named Matthew Hollander, 1395 01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,920 Speaker 1: and he took the audio tapes from Milgram's study and 1396 01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:05,800 Speaker 1: he researched all He listened to the whole thing, like 1397 01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:09,360 Speaker 1: a year and a half worth of these studies, and 1398 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:13,120 Speaker 1: he identified six types of resistance that were shown by 1399 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:15,440 Speaker 1: the people involved with them, three of which were implicit 1400 01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:21,360 Speaker 1: and three were explicit. The implicit ones were silence or hesitation, imprecations, 1401 01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,360 Speaker 1: or laughter. And some people who have listened to these 1402 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:27,360 Speaker 1: tapes they interpret the laughter as being sadism, but he said, no, 1403 01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:31,280 Speaker 1: the laughter is just this like uncomfortablelity of obeying the orders. 1404 01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,640 Speaker 1: The explicit ones were when they addressed the learner and 1405 01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:37,320 Speaker 1: they would say things like are you sure you want 1406 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,040 Speaker 1: me to continue with this? Or when they prompted the 1407 01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:43,200 Speaker 1: supervisor and would say is it really necessary for me 1408 01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:45,840 Speaker 1: to continue doing this? Uh? And the last one was 1409 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:47,720 Speaker 1: when they would just stop and they'd say, look, I'm 1410 01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,560 Speaker 1: not going to continue doing this. I'm done. Here's the 1411 01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 1: really interesting thing from his study. Those who participated all 1412 01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:57,559 Speaker 1: the way to the end, the four fifty volts, they 1413 01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:02,280 Speaker 1: all used the implicit strategy is the silence, laughter, etcetera. 1414 01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,479 Speaker 1: The participants who actually addressed the learners and tried to 1415 01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:08,240 Speaker 1: have a dialogue with them, they were the only people 1416 01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:12,439 Speaker 1: who stopped in Milgram's experiment, So that speaks something to 1417 01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,519 Speaker 1: our again the identification do you identify with the person 1418 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,000 Speaker 1: or do you identify with the cause? Right? Yeah? And 1419 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:20,639 Speaker 1: to what degree is there going to be any kind 1420 01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:23,560 Speaker 1: of back and forth communication over any of this? Is 1421 01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:26,360 Speaker 1: it just becoming a vessel for the orders? So this 1422 01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:29,679 Speaker 1: is to wrap it up, my one of my favorite 1423 01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,920 Speaker 1: creepy pastas I've ever looked at. Whoever out there wrote 1424 01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:37,719 Speaker 1: it anonymously, bravo. Uh it really made me think pretty 1425 01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:41,600 Speaker 1: deeply about the ethics of what what the goals of 1426 01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 1: science are, not just in terms of like, you know, 1427 01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:46,920 Speaker 1: the fact based stuff of like well I got to 1428 01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: fill out this i RB protocol, you know, but more 1429 01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:52,400 Speaker 1: along the lines of like what's the point and what 1430 01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,439 Speaker 1: are we willing to do to get to it? Yeah? 1431 01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:56,719 Speaker 1: And I think in this this is another example of 1432 01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:01,240 Speaker 1: how SEP foundation entries are kind of enough relation evolution 1433 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,599 Speaker 1: of the form. Uh So instead of them just being 1434 01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:10,000 Speaker 1: like individual creepy bits of you know, semi wicky type material, 1435 01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:15,040 Speaker 1: they are little thought experiments, little paradoxes um that are 1436 01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,000 Speaker 1: flavored with sci fi intrigue. And so I would I 1437 01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,360 Speaker 1: would definitely recommend anyone who who found these interesting to 1438 01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,800 Speaker 1: check out That website will include links on the landing 1439 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:27,559 Speaker 1: page for this episode of Stuff to About Your Mind 1440 01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:31,080 Speaker 1: dot Com to the individual entries that we profiled here. 1441 01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,360 Speaker 1: So check those out, explore some more and if you 1442 01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,840 Speaker 1: find some then and you think to yourself, oh well 1443 01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,599 Speaker 1: these are these are perfect. If you guys do another 1444 01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,559 Speaker 1: STP episode, you should do these. You should let us 1445 01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,519 Speaker 1: know about that. Yeah, definitely keep the messages coming about 1446 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,360 Speaker 1: Creepy Pasta's we you know, if you keep wanting to 1447 01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,160 Speaker 1: hear them, we'll keep doing them. Uh So, let us know. 1448 01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:53,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it's an STP, maybe it's another creepy Pasta, but 1449 01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:56,280 Speaker 1: point out stuff to us and we'll look into it 1450 01:23:56,360 --> 01:24:01,280 Speaker 1: and maybe Creepy Pasta for the Revenge will be coming 1451 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,000 Speaker 1: up down the road. Uh So, if you want to 1452 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,280 Speaker 1: reach out to us, well some of the best ways 1453 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:07,840 Speaker 1: or to just go to stuff to Blow your Mind 1454 01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,120 Speaker 1: dot com. That's where we've got all our articles, our 1455 01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,040 Speaker 1: videos or podcasts, as well as links to all of 1456 01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,120 Speaker 1: our social media. Yeah, and if you're listening to your 1457 01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:18,479 Speaker 1: in Halloween, we also have the new episodes of Monster 1458 01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:24,000 Speaker 1: Science there for you. Explorations of the connections between fictional 1459 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,879 Speaker 1: monsters and real world Science. Yeah, absolutely, I highly recommend 1460 01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,479 Speaker 1: Monster Science. My favorite thing that we do here at 1461 01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:33,000 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works. It's uh this is a treat to me. 1462 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,240 Speaker 1: This is my Christmas. Uh So, if you want to 1463 01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,000 Speaker 1: write us the old fashioned way, though, and you want 1464 01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:41,320 Speaker 1: to tell us about creepy pastas, maybe praise Robert for 1465 01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,800 Speaker 1: his performance and Monster Science, or you've got some experiments 1466 01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,360 Speaker 1: that you'd like us to conduct, you can always write 1467 01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,519 Speaker 1: to us at blow the Mind at how stuff works 1468 01:24:49,520 --> 01:25:01,360 Speaker 1: dot com. Well more on this and thousands of other topics. 1469 01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:17,960 Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works dot com. The f