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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. I have an

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Speaker 1: amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do a lot of interesting things happening in

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Speaker 2: the AI raised Sam Altman is actually sounding the alarm

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Speaker 2: internally over OpenAIS standing after Google releases their latest LM.

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Speaker 2: So that is a fascinating one there. The Trump administration

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Speaker 2: announced they had a healthcare proposal, and then they pulled

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Speaker 2: that healthcare proposal after a revolt from congressional Republicans. Dig

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Speaker 2: into that, Scott the Lesson says, maybe the way to

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Speaker 2: bring costs down is to invade Venezuela. Seems to be

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Speaker 2: a full blown propaganda push towards war and full on

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Speaker 2: invasion of Venezuela. So we will see where that goes.

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Speaker 2: Republicans in the House are furious apparently with the White House,

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Speaker 2: and more are threatening to resign, putting the majority in danger.

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Speaker 2: Jim Comey and Letitia James have had their prosecutions thrown

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Speaker 2: out by a federal judge. Pete Hegseth is threatening Mark

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Speaker 2: Kelly after he was part of that video saying hey,

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Speaker 2: if you are a service member, you should not follow

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Speaker 2: unlawful commands. And we're going to take a look at

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Speaker 2: what that Thanksgiving turkey is going to cost you. It's

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Speaker 2: our most like Morning Show coded segment ever. We do

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Speaker 2: it every year, though we usually also do one about

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Speaker 2: like how to talk to your relatives about Thanksgiving? But

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Speaker 2: you know whatever, you're just gonna have to work that

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Speaker 2: one out here.

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Speaker 1: At this point, there's been enough discourse about relatives. You

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Speaker 1: guys can figure it out. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I actually you know what, let me offer one tip,

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Speaker 2: one unifying thing. I think you should talk about data

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Speaker 2: centers and AI and I think you share you go

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Speaker 2: because it's very it's very cross partisan. I think there

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Speaker 2: is something about the rise of AI for all of

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Speaker 2: us to be concerned about. So perhaps it can be

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Speaker 2: both an educational and a unifying moment at the Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: I like that. That's the Breaking Points approved talking point,

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Speaker 1: that you can have politics at dinner and everybody will say, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy. We should do something about that. I like it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to everybody who's been signing up Breakingpoints at

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Speaker 1: dot com to become a premium subscriber. You can, especially today,

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Speaker 1: you're going to want to be a premium subscriber. You

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Speaker 1: know why because during the a m. A. Crystal is

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Speaker 1: at home. So producer Mac is going to join me

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Speaker 1: and we are going to taste test live the taco

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Speaker 1: bell Baha blast. Is it a cheesecake or is it

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Speaker 1: a pie? It's one of those, Emily, it's a cheese.

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Speaker 1: It's a cheesecake.

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Speaker 3: The box an interesting question.

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Speaker 2: Whether our cheesecake is also technically a pop.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Yes, that's Emily decided that this was something that

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Speaker 2: we should give the world.

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Speaker 3: So she is.

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Speaker 1: Emily Uber Eats Stocker and me and we are going

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Speaker 1: to try it live on camera. Only available for our

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Speaker 1: premium subscribers Breakingpoints dot com. You can also support our work.

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Speaker 1: By the way, and if you're just watching this on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: no worries you can't afford a membership, Please just hit

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Speaker 1: five stars and send it to a friend. It really

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Speaker 1: helps other people find the show. But let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and start with the economy. As we said, let's go

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Speaker 1: and put a one up here on the screen. This

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Speaker 1: new rollout is absolutely fascinating simply because we can look

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Speaker 1: at the exponential growth in a lot of these lms

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Speaker 1: between Google, Meta, OpenAI, Amazon, what is it, drop Box,

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Speaker 1: all these other companies, salesforce, people are all competing against

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Speaker 1: one another, and Google's new Gemini rollout has many of

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Speaker 1: its competitors reeling. And the implications for this are actually titanic,

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Speaker 1: mostly for Open Ai, but also for the entire chips industry.

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Speaker 1: So let's read a little bit here from the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal. With the release of the third version this week,

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Speaker 1: Google's Gemini LM search pass chat Chiput's become the most

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Speaker 1: capable AI chatbot, as determined by Consensus Industry benchmark tests.

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Speaker 1: The reason why this is interesting is that they Google

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Speaker 1: has been able to do this by bypassing some of

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Speaker 1: the other choke points that open ai has had, and

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Speaker 1: because it is a monopolistic company. I mean, the truth

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Speaker 1: is the vast majority of people who are even watching

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Speaker 1: this are doing so on a Google product. They're doing

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Speaker 1: it on YouTube. Google has YouTube, it has ai search

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Speaker 1: as YouTube TV, it has all of these different things

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Speaker 1: that roll up into this gigantic company which prints all

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Speaker 1: of this money. They don't have to have the shortfall

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Speaker 1: that open ai has some seventy eight billion dollars in losses.

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Speaker 1: They've been able to come in have this technological breakthrough

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Speaker 1: with Gemini three, which has quote outperformed competing models on

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Speaker 1: more than a dozen benchmark tests, scoring a range of

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Speaker 1: intelligence categories. But I think what's also very interesting is

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Speaker 1: the Chip story Crystal behind all of this, The way

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Speaker 1: that they're using of their own intern the way that

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Speaker 1: they're not having to rely on some of the more

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Speaker 1: vendor finance type deals, and so that puts at risk

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Speaker 1: kind of the pyramid scheme potentially that we had begun

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Speaker 1: to see with Opene and many of the other deals

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Speaker 1: they had out there. This has major ramifications for the

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Speaker 1: future of open ai, its ability to fulfill its trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar commitments if they can't maintain their technological edge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a gigantic deal for a bunch of reasons,

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Speaker 2: and a tremendous threat to the other AI competitors. For

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Speaker 2: the first time, Google has been seen to take the

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Speaker 2: lead in terms of the AI race. As you were saying,

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Speaker 2: on these sort of benchmark tests, it outperformed all of

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Speaker 2: the competitors on every single test save for one, so

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Speaker 2: it's sort of widely being seen as the most advanced

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Speaker 2: model at this point. The other reason, as you were saying, Soccer,

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Speaker 2: that this is considered so significant is that Google has

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Speaker 2: their own proprietary chips that were used to train Gemini three,

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Speaker 2: and Gemini three is largely being run on those proprietary chips,

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Speaker 2: So that is really, you know, a significant sort of

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Speaker 2: shakeup in the industry and could potentially give them an.

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Speaker 3: Edge as well.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention, as you said, the fact that this

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Speaker 2: is something that Stolar has been all over, the fact

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Speaker 2: that they have this gigantic monopoly already gives them a

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Speaker 2: huge edge as well, both in terms of customer positioning

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Speaker 2: and also in terms of the data that they have

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Speaker 2: available to train these models, and the training obviously very

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Speaker 2: important in terms of LLMS, because it's not like normal

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Speaker 2: tech where you code it. It's actually, you know, being trained,

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Speaker 2: it's being grown. And so the more that you have

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Speaker 2: to feed into this thing from everybody's searches and all

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Speaker 2: of the content on the web, that's going to give

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Speaker 2: you an advantage as well, to give you a sense

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Speaker 2: of how significant the chips aspect of this is and

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Speaker 2: how central Nvidia has become less but a two up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. I don't know if you guys followed

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Speaker 2: all this drama last week about Nvidia's earnings. They did

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Speaker 2: actually exceed their earnings expectations, and their founder said, I

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Speaker 2: think quite accurately, the whole world would have fallen apart

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Speaker 2: if in Nvidia missed earnings expectations because basically our entire

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Speaker 2: economy is centered around that one now infamous chart of

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Speaker 2: Nvidia and all the deals they have with all these

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Speaker 2: different AI companies, So in Vidia has been like the

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Speaker 2: central player. This maybe breaks apart that notion that Nvida

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Speaker 2: is absolutely everything within the economy, but yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: we're still in this situation where things are incredibly concentrated,

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Speaker 2: and for these other companies that are taking gigantic trillion

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Speaker 2: dollar bets on their model winning, you know, this has

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Speaker 2: got to be incredibly unsettling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. The chips angle to this, the open AI angle,

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Speaker 1: and also just the monopolistic one. I think this is

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Speaker 1: the one I want to spend more time on because

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Speaker 1: it's not just search. It's Google, Chrome, it's Gmail, it's YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Google had already built, you know, the perfect search engine,

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Speaker 1: the perfect YouTube recommendation.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the.

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Speaker 1: Truth is is like we owe our careers right to

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Speaker 1: YouTube recommendation algorithm a lot of other people there. You

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Speaker 1: go on YouTube and it's the best at being able

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Speaker 1: to find something else that you want to watch. Now.

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Speaker 1: YouTube TV is one of the major players in the

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Speaker 1: cable replacements. They've got all this stuff going on with culture.

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Speaker 1: They own all these massive troves of data of the

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Speaker 1: Android operating system, which is global, so they know more

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Speaker 1: about human behavior than anyone else already before LM's And

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Speaker 1: then you roll that all up into Sundhar Pachai, who

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Speaker 1: apparently made this the single priority inside of Google. Very recently,

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Speaker 1: I was reading some background from my friend Alex Kanstowitz,

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Speaker 1: he's a tech reporter, on how they revamped the Gemini

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Speaker 1: product and they said this will be the pre eminent

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Speaker 1: one in the space. So it shows the monopolistic benefits

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Speaker 1: to a Google and it also shows you some of

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Speaker 1: the dangers here with OpenAI specifically and what that means

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Speaker 1: for our overall economy. And that's probably what we want

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Speaker 1: to spend the most time on here. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: A three. I flagged this specifically because it goes back

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Speaker 1: to our interview that we did last week, specifically about

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Speaker 1: when will we know that we're going to start having

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Speaker 1: issues with AI in terms of it starting to leapfrog.

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Speaker 1: Google is actually having Gemini I build the user interface

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Speaker 1: in its latest Gemini updates, so the AI is already

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Speaker 1: doing some of the tasks around the AI itself. This

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Speaker 1: is what I say is super interesting. I think about

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Speaker 1: how they're not only having the monopoly, do having the

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Speaker 1: monopoly to benefit its current product, but now having the

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Speaker 1: AI not just train the AI, but build some of

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Speaker 1: the user interface of AI. So it demonstrates what they

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Speaker 1: have long promised as the productivity benefits again for themselves,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily for all of us. Now with open AI,

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Speaker 1: what Wall Street is beginning to notice, and you're going

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Speaker 1: to start probably seeing this in stock price soon, is

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Speaker 1: how much this kind of screws over a lot of

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Speaker 1: their growth plans. So let's put the next one up

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Speaker 1: here on the screen. So this was from CNBC, and

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Speaker 1: what they say is that Google's new AI model puts

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Speaker 1: open AI the great conundrum of this market on shakier ground.

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Speaker 1: I do want to say this is written by Jim Kramer,

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Speaker 1: so you know, I mean take it with a great assault.

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Speaker 1: That said, you know, every once in a while, you know,

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Speaker 1: broken clock is right twice a day. And what he

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Speaker 1: does say is that if you look at this and

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Speaker 1: some of the promises of the market, specifically around these

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Speaker 1: vendor finance deals and open AI, while openly acknowledging that

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Speaker 1: they're going to have some seventy eight billion dollars or

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Speaker 1: whatever in losses by twenty twenty eight, everything is built

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Speaker 1: on exponential growth and their ability to maintain the leading

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Speaker 1: and bleeding edge for exponential growth the best in consumer

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Speaker 1: facing AI. What this does makes it is so that

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Speaker 1: it calls into question their competitive edge that they've long

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Speaker 1: had by being one of the first movers with one

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Speaker 1: of the best user friendly chatbots, and it makes it

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Speaker 1: so that that could be challenged, which would decrease its growth,

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Speaker 1: which would of course not have them be able to

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Speaker 1: fulfill all of the trillion dollar deals, which would mean

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Speaker 1: that the market valuations of all these companies save for

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Speaker 1: Google would start to go down. And en VideA in particular,

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Speaker 1: go to the next one. Please. This is from the

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Speaker 1: Information a tech focus outlet, and they got their hands

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Speaker 1: on this new memo that forecasts quote rough vibes during

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Speaker 1: due to a resurgent Google. Now I don't love using

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Speaker 1: the word rough vibes in internal company memos, but what

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Speaker 1: we say is that this November memo, it leaked a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago, says that the rough vibes and

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Speaker 1: potential revenue growth toward five percent, which would be a

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Speaker 1: collapse inside. And that was actually written before Gemini three

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Speaker 1: actually launched. On November eighteenth, Altman praised Google's excellent work

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Speaker 1: where he declared a shift to a wartime footing inside

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Speaker 1: of the company. Now, remember they're valued at five hundred billion,

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Speaker 1: their annual revenue needs to exceed some twenty billion this year.

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Speaker 1: Their cash burn surpasses already eight billion in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five cumulative losses of one hundred and fifteen billion, potentially

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Speaker 1: up to twenty twenty nine forward sales needs some twenty

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Speaker 1: five times now currently. Meanwhile, Google has one hundred billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in cash, They have four billion users, They have

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Speaker 1: an incredible competitive edge, and so you could see very

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Speaker 1: quickly how this company, even if it maintains you know,

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Speaker 1: some good growth and it continues to have you know,

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Speaker 1: large user base twenty billion and all that, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be very very hard to reach some twenty five

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Speaker 1: times expected growth and keep that exponential edge. And this

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Speaker 1: is really what all these AI guys, people like Meta

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Speaker 1: and Google have been kind of telling everyone behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, look, open ai is great, but we

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Speaker 1: actually make money. We make a shitload of money, and

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Speaker 1: then we have this monopolization let's say in social media

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Speaker 1: and or in Google search, and we can use that

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Speaker 1: to prop up our trillions of dollars that are being

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Speaker 1: spent here. Open ai is kind of the cornerstone of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the stock growth for some of the

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Speaker 1: other you know, some of the other areas like data center,

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Speaker 1: n VideA and others. And I think that's where a

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Speaker 1: lot of the concern comes from from a potential collapse

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Speaker 1: at the very least from open AI that wouldn't bring

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Speaker 1: down the entire economy, but would pump the brakes. And

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Speaker 1: pumping the brakes, as we've said, is potential enough to

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Speaker 1: already see a major decline in a lot of stock indices,

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Speaker 1: and potentially also even a modest decrease in the amount

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Speaker 1: of data center growth would mean that GDP itself would

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Speaker 1: begin to put us into recession territory.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's right, that's right. Let's put a six up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. Actually, David Sachs was saying yesterday, is

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Speaker 2: something to the effect which I found very disturbing frankly,

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Speaker 2: that we have so many chips on placed on the

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Speaker 2: AI boom that we cannot go back, we cannot afford

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Speaker 2: it to slip. And that's what this article really releases reveals.

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Speaker 2: It says the SMP four ninety three reveals a very

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Speaker 2: different US economy. So we've seen the stock market go

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Speaker 2: basically up and up and up and up and up,

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Speaker 2: breaking new records, et cetera. And we've mentioned this before,

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Speaker 2: but if you strip out those seven companies, the Magnificent seven,

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Speaker 2: that are all, you know, sky high valuations basically based

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Speaker 2: on the promise of AI. If you take that out,

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Speaker 2: the stock market picture is, the picture of growth is

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Speaker 2: very actually weak. It looks like a completely different economy.

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Speaker 2: And of course, for most people out there, you know,

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Speaker 2: you who are living in the real economy, they're already

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Speaker 2: feeling a downter and they're already feeling the pinch. They're

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Speaker 2: not participating in this speculative fever. Certainly not mostly benefiting

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Speaker 2: from the speculative fever unless you're someone who's at the

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Speaker 2: higher end of the income spectrum and benefiting from the

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Speaker 2: rise in the stock market. But one possibility, sager, that

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Speaker 2: we've been talking about for a while is, you know,

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Speaker 2: the expectation is that the AI boom is going to

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Speaker 2: be a sort of winner take all economy. And I

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Speaker 2: mean that in the sense that whichever company is able

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Speaker 2: to achieve super intelligence first and get to this pivot

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Speaker 2: point where their AI is not only training the new AI,

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Speaker 2: but is also doing significant decision making, where basically everything

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Speaker 2: is sort of handed off and you just have humans

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Speaker 2: who are overseeing the best they can managing this development.

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Speaker 2: Whoever achieves that first is going to basically get all

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Speaker 2: of the games, so you can have a situation where

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Speaker 2: the promise of AI is actually fulfilled. Now I'm sort

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Speaker 2: of terrified of what that world looks like, but you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're a techno optimist, there could be a world

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Speaker 2: where the promise of AI is fulfilled.

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Speaker 3: But still all of.

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Speaker 2: These other companies that are betting, making trillion dollar bets

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Speaker 2: on their AI future lose the race, and you still

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Speaker 2: have a massive crash and bubble pop once someone does

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Speaker 2: actually achieve that level of super intelligence. And so to me,

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Speaker 2: this development is a reminder that even you know, with

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Speaker 2: the structure of the way this AI race is playing out,

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Speaker 2: that in and of itself creates massive risk in the

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Speaker 2: economy because you are probably going to have basically a

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Speaker 2: monopolistic winner take all situation where whether it's Google, and

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Speaker 2: I do think Google, you know, it makes sense that

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Speaker 2: they have a lot of advantages here, whether it's Google

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Speaker 2: or some other player, when they achieve this breakthrough, they're

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Speaker 2: going to leap frog far beyond everyone else, and you know,

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Speaker 2: cause a major cratering of the valuation and the bets

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Speaker 2: of these other companies. Now, if you're a company like Microsoft,

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Speaker 2: you've got a lot of other revenue streams. If you're

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Speaker 2: a company like open Ai, you've placed all of your

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Speaker 2: chips on, you know, trying to get to superintelligence as

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Speaker 2: quickly as possible and spending as much money as it

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Speaker 2: takes and becoming too big to fail. That's basically where

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Speaker 2: you've placed all of your chips. Now, we should say

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Speaker 2: at this point they are the leaders in terms of

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Speaker 2: you know, the largest user base of their LLM chat

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Speaker 2: GPT is the most used. I think they have like

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Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand users something like that, So they're ahead

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Speaker 2: in that perspective. But you know, I think this really

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Speaker 2: shows a lot of risks for their direction and their

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Speaker 2: business model.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, what you can see at the very

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Speaker 1: least here is with questions and uncertainty that enough is

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Speaker 1: because of where the markets and how it's all worked,

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Speaker 1: would be enough to bring down some sort of downturn, which,

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Speaker 1: again we have to keep underscoring, is the only thing

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Speaker 1: propping up the US economy in terms of the big

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Speaker 1: numbers that people in Washington care about GDP and stock market. Now,

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Speaker 1: I know the vast majority of people watching this that

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Speaker 1: doesn't affect you all that much, although I would say

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Speaker 1: it does affect you in the way that interest rates

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Speaker 1: work in terms of if there is a crash, you

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Speaker 1: can be sure you may not have benefited on the

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Speaker 1: way up, you definitely will suffer the consequences on the

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Speaker 1: way down. It can you know, liquidity, There's all kinds

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Speaker 1: of downstream things. But I think just to hammer this home,

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Speaker 1: this Washington Post has a graph at a six please

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Speaker 1: so the S and P. Four ninety three, and what

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Speaker 1: it shows is that one hundred and thirty two percent

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Speaker 1: growth excluding the Magnificent seven, since twenty nineteen, whereas from

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it's one thousand and five, it's one

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Speaker 1: fifty seven percent, which includes the Magnificent seven. This just

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Speaker 1: people don't appreciate just how powerful these companies have been

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Speaker 1: to the illusion, say of growth, and if the four

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Speaker 1: hundred ninety three of the five hundred companies are not

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Speaker 1: actually doing all that well, although you know it's I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that they haven't done as well, but they're

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Speaker 1: not compounding at a level which is so exponential. That

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Speaker 1: alone just demonstrates some of the pushback the draw that

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Speaker 1: could happen with some of those valuation. You got to

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Speaker 1: give credit to Steve Bannon, he actually definitely has his

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Speaker 1: eyes open about this. Let's go to the next part

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Speaker 1: here and put this on the screen. Steve Bannon now

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Speaker 1: tells ABC News he is warning the Trump administration that

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Speaker 1: their AI agenda could quote crush the working class fracture,

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Speaker 1: MAGA cost gop in twenty six and twenty eight. He

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Speaker 1: is working to quote turbocharge the base to revolt against

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Speaker 1: it inside magas fight to stop the AI revolution. And

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Speaker 1: this really fits with the launch of a new candidate

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Speaker 1: down in the state of Florida, James Fishback. He is

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Speaker 1: running against Byron Donnell to succeed Ron DeSantis as the

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Speaker 1: next governor of Florida, and he specifically calls out AI

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Speaker 1: data centers in his new ad in his launch video, literally,

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Speaker 1: let's take a listen to that, guys, that is a eight.

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Speaker 5: My name is James Fishback, and I'm running to succeed

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Speaker 5: Ron DeSantis as Florida's next Republican governor. I'm running for

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Speaker 5: Florida governor so i can make life more affordable for

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Speaker 5: you and your family. I'll stop the construction of any

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Speaker 5: AI data center that threatens to raise our electricity bills

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Speaker 5: or poison our water supply. If he goes out and

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Speaker 5: supports the building of AI data centers that threaten our

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Speaker 5: electric bills and our water supply, he can't be our

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Speaker 5: next governor.

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Speaker 1: Is he talks about. He talks about banning large companies

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Speaker 1: like hedge funds and others private equity from buying homes,

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Speaker 1: and three is AI data center.

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Speaker 3: So look you, we'll say Sager.

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Speaker 2: In the longer list, he also says abolished property tax.

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Speaker 1: I know that, Yes, I was going to get before

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Speaker 1: we get to the downside, we have to get to

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Speaker 1: the upside at the very least. I will say this

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Speaker 1: definitely demonstrates the thesis that AI data centers will be

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Speaker 1: a cornerstone of a lot of the election. They're coming

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Speaker 1: up in twenty twenty six, and there's already been all

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Speaker 1: of these revolts on a local level. It was not

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Speaker 1: difficult to see this coming. But this was I think

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Speaker 1: a major flash in the pan for a lot of

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Speaker 1: the big tech movement because this is the big fight

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Speaker 1: in the White House right now, and they're not wrong.

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Speaker 1: They're like, sir, When they go to Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: he hears about some of this pushback, he goes, sir,

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Speaker 1: we're the only thing saving your economy and he needs that,

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Speaker 1: especially in the midst of tariffs. He's like, you, if

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Speaker 1: you stop this gravy train, we're dead. Like you're going

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Speaker 1: to be facing serious questions about tariffs, about the economy,

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Speaker 1: You're already having problems with affordability, and not to mention

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Speaker 1: many of us gave you, you know, hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars when you were running for a president. And

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Speaker 1: on the other side, though, is if you look at

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Speaker 1: the way that the political wins are shifting, it's obvious

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Speaker 1: that for people who aren't in those established power centers,

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Speaker 1: the best move is to run against them. That's why

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Speaker 1: James fishback car that kind of carve that lane out

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Speaker 1: for himself. I believe Byron Donald's had said something which

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Speaker 1: was pro data center very recently, which demonstrates how you

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Speaker 1: know he himself, because you know he's more inside the

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Speaker 1: system type politician. He kind of thought it was a

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Speaker 1: gimme in terms of this race, and now that might

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Speaker 1: really come back to buy them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the politics of it are fascinating because

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Speaker 2: certainly at the grassroots level, really doesn't matter whether you're

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Speaker 2: a Republican or a Democrat. There's a lot of concern.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of these data centers are being

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Speaker 2: built in rural red Trump areas, and you know, whether

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Speaker 2: it's Mingo County, West Virginia or we played the some

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Speaker 2: of the more perfect Union reporting from a small town

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Speaker 2: in Louisiana where you know this metadata center is going

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Speaker 2: in is a major major issue. There's problems with an

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Speaker 2: one of Elon's data centers outside of Memphis that we

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Speaker 2: talked to Justin Pearson about. Abdolsayat has been sounding the

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Speaker 2: alarm about issues in Michigan. Grand Platner has been going

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Speaker 2: very hard on the paint against these tech companies, and

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Speaker 2: so it was interesting to see a Republican really this

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Speaker 2: is maybe the first time I've seen a Republican candidate

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Speaker 2: really jump this aggressively into the freight because the reality

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Speaker 2: is and I think this is another sort of sign

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Speaker 2: of Trump's weakness at this moment. This is the major

435
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 2: push of his administration, I mean in terms of the

436
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 2: sort of economic planning and what they've been building and

437
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: who they've thrown in with in a massive way. From

438
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 2: the beginning of this administration. It is this gigantic bet

439
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: on AI. The very first executive orders. Among them were, hey,

440
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: any sort of regulation that existed in the Biden administration

441
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: of AI where previously companies were supposed to be sending

442
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 2: in all of their safety tests to the federal government,

443
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: there was at least some visibility of what they were

444
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 2: up to. It's like, nope, we're taking all the breaks

445
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: off this car. We're going all the way in. He

446
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: just signed yet another executive order seeking to speed the

447
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: proliferation of AI throughout the government and throughout society. So

448
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 2: the Financial Times headline that the US economy is all

449
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 2: just one giant bet on AI is absolutely true. Whether

450
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: it's the data center bill outs, whether it's the stock

451
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,239
Speaker 2: market just across the board. And so now even if

452
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: Trump wanted to go in a different direction, he can,

453
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: and he doesn't really care. I mean he basically when

454
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: he took in all this money from the tech guys,

455
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: he basically sold this part of the administration to them.

456
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: They've made him fabulously wealthy through his crypto shit coins

457
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: and all of the you know deals that he's been

458
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: striking as well. So I don't think he has any

459
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: interest in backing away from it. Meanwhile, at the grassroots level,

460
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: you have this burgeoning revolt. And Steve Bannon has been

461
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: you know, talking about this from the beginning, even during

462
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: the early days with Elon Musk, he had some concerns

463
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: about that. He's saying they're going to go all in,

464
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: you know, really sort of on a war footing against

465
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: this bill out and this no holds barred AI development.

466
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: But you know, it's his guy who's in the White

467
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: House who has really enabled this gigantic push. And you

468
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 2: not only have the dynamic of so much of the

469
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: economy is built on it at this point, you also

470
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: have the you know, oh and we're in a race

471
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: with China dynamic of it as well, which makes it

472
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: very difficult for politicians to sort of step back from

473
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: hurdling towards whatever we're hurdling towards.

474
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And Chris, can you break down this power story?

475
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: I know that you were interested. This is a seven

476
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: about con Edison.

477
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not just about con Edison.

478
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: This is just about overall.

479
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 2: You know, we've been tracking, of course, the way that

480
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 2: electricity bills have been going up and up, huge increases,

481
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: and you know, certain states more than others. But as

482
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: a consequence of as a very predictable consequence of that,

483
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: you have more customers who are having their electricity shut

484
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: off because they can't pay their bills. Overall, they say

485
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: Americans are paying eleven percent more for electricity than they

486
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: were in January, but that number varies really widely. So

487
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: for example, they find in Missouri, costs have risen by

488
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: thirty seven percent. There are a couple of states, maybe

489
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: three different states, that have seen some declines, but overall

490
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: the picture is one of utility prices rising rapidly. They say,

491
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: utility prices have risen roughly three times faster than overall

492
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: inflation this year at a precarious time for the economy.

493
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: Nearly one in twenty households are about fourteen million Americans.

494
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: We're so behind on utility debt it was reported to

495
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: collections agencies or in arrears. As of June, the average

496
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: overdue balance of seven hundred and eighty nine dollars has

497
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: risen thirty two percent. And they talked about you know,

498
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: codd Edison in particular. The number of shutoffs in New

499
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: York that they've already done this year is one hundred

500
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: and eleven thousand. That's as compared to last year thirty

501
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: thousand for the whole year, so you've more than tripled

502
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: the number of shutoffs and we're not even obviously through

503
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: with the year of twenty twenty five, so you can

504
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: see how this is just you know, I mean, one

505
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: more thing that is absolutely squeezing consumers and they cannot

506
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: keep up. You know, people cannot keep up with these

507
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: bills which just continue to go up and up and up.

508
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: And we've seen legislative efforts in states like North Carolina

509
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: to pass on more of the data center electricity usage

510
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: costs to consumers. So you know, this is an incredibly

511
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: powerful industry, whether you're talking about these tech giants or

512
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: whether you're talking about the utility companies, and you know,

513
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: they are putting the squeeze to people in a way

514
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: that's absolutely extraordinary.

515
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: Soccer.

516
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: When we talked to that AI expert last week, you know,

517
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: he was sounding he was saying that by twenty thirty

518
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: we could be facing massive issues with the grid, and

519
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: you know, we don't seem to be building out power

520
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: at nearly rapid enough rate to deal with the increase

521
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 2: that this demands, right.

522
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: Thirty two percent increase in overdue balance and you got

523
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: one in about five percent of all American households behind

524
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: on utility debt. State of Pennsylvania, which is a swing state,

525
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: you've got a twenty one percent increase they're in power bills,

526
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: and then you said there was a fivefold increase in

527
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: New York City. So you can see how this is all.

528
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: Just look, it hits the poorest first, but the middle

529
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: class and others. Just because they can't pay the bill

530
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that doesn't mean they're struggling. And it also

531
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: means if you combine grocery store bills and others, that

532
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: you increasingly feel as if the fixed cost of living

533
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: is slipping away from you. And that leads to for carrity,

534
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: and that's what leads to a lot of the politics

535
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: that we see today. So I thought it was smart

536
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: for James fish Back to put that in his ad,

537
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: and I hope and expect to see many other politicians,

538
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: aspiring politicians of all stripes across the spectrum that are

539
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: going to start running on this issue. Because if you're

540
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: an upstart and you're living in an anti institutional moment

541
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: like we are today, there's no reason that you shouldn't

542
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: be attacking this head on. It'd be interesting to see

543
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: where Zoron falls on it. Actually, considering how many people

544
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: in New York City are being affected, this would be

545
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: a very smart thing to try and attack. Your governor

546
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: of one of the largest cities in the entire country,

547
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: probably the largest city in the entire country, the mayor

548
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: of the entire city. You have all these millions of

549
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: people there. I mean, it's New York, it's cold, so

550
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: it's like a place that you actually need it especially,

551
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: that would be exactly the type of issue that he

552
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: would want to pick up on.

553
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: Well, he mentioned in that meeting with Trump, they mentioned

554
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 2: that they talked about Colin Edison, and I think it

555
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: was Trump that said something about, you know, the rates

556
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: are going up too high and we need to do

557
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: something about that. So he realizes starting to realize the

558
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: potency of this as well. But yeah, I mean the

559
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: politics of it are fascinating. I think they're incredibly important.

560
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: You know, a grassroots push back is really our only

561
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: hope to sort of stabilize things and take some Democrat

562
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: small d democratic control back over what's going on here.

563
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I'm sure I have lots of

564
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: issues with this fishback character or whatever you do too

565
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: on the property taxes issue. But I'm just happy to see,

566
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: you know, I really am, am genuinely glad to see

567
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: some on the right really seizing on this as an

568
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: issue as well, because right now, it doesn't code as

569
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: like a you know, left wing or right wing issue.

570
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: It's there's something in it for everybody to be concerned about,

571
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: whether it's the character of their community, whether it's environmental degrity,

572
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: whether it's the you know, just their electricity prices going up,

573
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: or whether it's the job's concerns. And the goal here,

574
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: obviously is to take everybody's jobs. They don't really have

575
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: a plan for what we're all going to do after

576
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: that happens, or even the you know, most apocalyptic potentially

577
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: existential nature of this technology. Steve Bannon calls it the

578
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: most most dangerous technology ever developed. I agree with that assessment,

579
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: I genuinely do. And the reason why I would say

580
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: that is because, you know, when you're building nukes, everybody

581
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: knows what we're dealing with, right It's not a mystery

582
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: like I don't know what will happen if we, you know,

583
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: nuke the world, Like everybody understands that this is extremely dangerous.

584
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: I think What makes AI development, like, like completely un

585
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: unleashed AI development so dangerous is that it has that

586
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: level of potential cataclysmic harm without the same level of

587
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: understanding or awareness that that harm exists. And the amount

588
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: of hubris that you see from these guys is just,

589
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: you know, really something.

590
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: To totally agree, all right, it's good to healthcare.

591
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: So we may or may not be approaching a new

592
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: concept of a healthcare plan from the Trump administration. So yesterday,

593
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: actually during yesterday's show, we were starting to get some

594
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: indications that the Trump White House had come up with

595
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: some sort of a healthcare plan. Various news outlets starting

596
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: to started to report on it, and then this happened.

597
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 3: Let's take a look.

598
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 6: We're learning President Trump is planning to unveil a new

599
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 6: healthcare proposal, and at this point we're still waiting to

600
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 6: know exactly what's in it, but we're told it could

601
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 6: include a temporary extension of the Enhanced Affordable Care AC subsidies,

602
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 6: which are due to expire at the end of the year.

603
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 6: They were at the center of the government shutdown. However,

604
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 6: the subsidies could come with some fresh guardrails that could

605
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 6: include new income limits and a requirement that everyone pay

606
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 6: some form of a premium. Now, we should note that

607
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 6: if the subsidies do expire, millions of Americans are expected

608
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 6: to see their premiums more than double next year. Zach

609
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 6: Cooper's joining us now. He's a professor of health policy

610
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 6: at Yale University. Zach, thanks for being here. As I noted,

611
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 6: we are very much still waiting for specifics here. But

612
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 6: I'm sorry this has actually been Sorry, Zach, we're getting

613
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 6: breaking news while I'm talking to you. I have learned

614
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 6: that the White House is postponed it's inspected unveiling of

615
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 6: this new healthcare proposal. It was expected to be unveiled today.

616
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 6: We'll learn more, hopefully about that in the coming moment.

617
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: Whoops, and breaking news. Actually, they're not going to move

618
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: forward with this at all. And the outlines of the

619
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: deal are basically what she had said as far as

620
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: we know, which is effectively like a two year extension

621
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: of the ACA subsidies and then some tinkering around the

622
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: edges of the eligibility and you know how much income

623
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: you can earn in this provision with regard to premiums.

624
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: But effectively it's like, all right, fine, we'll extend the

625
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: Obamacare subsidies for two years. Can put the next piece

626
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: up on the screen, which indicates why they decided to

627
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: pull this proposal at the last minute. Apparently they hadn't

628
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: really gone to any members of Congress Republican members of

629
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: Congress to see how they felt about the proposal. So

630
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: it says new White House to delay a healthcare proposal

631
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: after significant congressional backlash. Coordinated to two White House officials,

632
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: the announcement has been delayed, with one of those officials

633
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: citing strong congressional backlash to Trump's proposed plan. Trump planned

634
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: to make an announcement as early as Monday, proposing a

635
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: framework to address healthcare costs, which included an extension of

636
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: Obamacare subsidies.

637
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 3: So there you go, Sager, that's where we are.

638
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it's deeply hilarious. So I do. Although

639
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: I want to sit in terms of how we talked

640
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: a lot about this and during the whole shutdown thing,

641
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: this still just shows you how we are so screwed

642
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: in the healthcare convo because the Democratic response was we

643
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: have to extend these subsidies to these healthcare companies, and

644
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 1: now the Republican cave is to also potentially give some

645
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: subsidies but with income caps or whatever to the same

646
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: healthcare company. Nobody wants to address or do anything about cost,

647
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: And I think the hilarious part about it too. Let's

648
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: give it. I'll give you an example is Bill Cassidy

649
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: put B four up here on the screen. So Bill Cassidy,

650
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: he's the doctor, and his alternative plan is swapping at

651
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: ACA tax credits which with HSA's like HSA but by

652
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: the way, I'm a fan of HSA accounts. If done well,

653
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: they can do actually are very effective in a lot

654
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: of other different countries. But this is basically the same thing.

655
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: So instead of giving the dollars to the healthcare company,

656
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: will give you HSA dollars which you can spend on

657
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: the healthcare company. All of it comes back to propping

658
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: up this ridiculous system where nobody wants to do anything

659
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: about cost. Like it's just so crazy to me. I mean, honestly,

660
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: the only good thing that I've seen Trump do recently

661
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: on healthcare is when he's been talking about striking deals

662
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: on ozempic in his Trump Care government, you know, pharmaceutical

663
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: deal wor will be it a flat pre for what

664
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: Americans could pay for if they have a prescription. That's

665
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: what we need more of. And nobody actually seems to

666
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: want to do anything about that, even the Biden administration.

667
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: If we think back to their whole negotiating drug prices thing,

668
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, well, we'll negotiate like the ten

669
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: largest drugs that we do. Then of course Trump just

670
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: basically rolled you know, quite a bit of that back.

671
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: There hasn't been a lot of development actually in terms

672
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: of lowering the overall costs. And meanwhile, what's happening is

673
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: that the drug hospital prices all continue to outpace inflation massively.

674
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: And then on top of this hell healthcare subsidy conversation,

675
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: the average premium for people on Obamacare ups a minimum

676
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: of some sixteen seventeen percent. As I said, mine was

677
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: seventeen percent. I have shared my in laws that got

678
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: up by like two hundred, three hundred percent or whatever,

679
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: which is the same problem that a lot of people

680
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: on these things have. And let's even leave us Obamacare

681
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: customers out. The average increase even for employer subsidized healthcare

682
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: is up some twenty five twenty six percent. Like that

683
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: is the whole ball game is the cost of the

684
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: deductibles and all of that are continue to balloon out

685
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: of control. And I think that's what kind of discussed

686
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: me and makes me upset about this entire thing.

687
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: I mean, look, yeah, the truth of the matter is

688
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: the only political group that has had serious answers that

689
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: would deal with the costs in the system are the left,

690
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic.

691
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: Party, you know, and they've always focused on it and

692
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: they are right to do so.

693
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's the thing is, actually, this is one

694
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 2: of the issues that's playing out in the Democratic primaries

695
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: right now. I mean, you see someone like Abdul Sayad,

696
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: who is a doctor himself, running aggressively on Medicare for all,

697
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: Graham Platner also running on Medicare for all. This is

698
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: becoming a real central sticking point in terms of the

699
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: Democratic Party and their future and their direction. There was

700
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: kind of a mutual agreement, I feel like, between Kamala

701
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: and Trump not to really talk about healthcare in the

702
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four campaign, because Biden run on, hey, let's

703
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: do a public option, But then as soon as he

704
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: got through the primary just sort of tossed that to

705
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: the side and never even attempted to move in that

706
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 2: direction whatsoever. He just did like a little bit of

707
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 2: you know, price negotiations on a handful of drugs. Okay, fine,

708
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: it's an improvement, but it's not exactly revolutionary. Kamala just

709
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 2: decided not to really talk about this whatsoever. Trump famously,

710
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: when he was asked about it, said he had concepts

711
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: of a plan. And the thing that really happened going

712
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: back to Republicans is that they did have a healthcare solution.

713
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: It was Mitt Romney Care. It was crafted originally by

714
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: the Heritage Foundation. He implemented it in Massachusetts, and then

715
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: Obama stole that effectively that plan almost identical plan, and

716
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: made it Obamacare. And since then they've never really had

717
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: an answer because Obamacare is the like, market driven health

718
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: care solution and guess what, it fucking sucks. Like, Yes,

719
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: it's modestly better than what was before in terms of,

720
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, people can't be kicked off for pre existing conditions,

721
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: et cetera, but it has not dealt with the core issues.

722
00:36:58,960 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: At the center of this.

723
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: Maybe if they had implemented a public option at the time,

724
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: maybe that would have improved things, because then you have,

725
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, competition that is setting the prices coming from

726
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: the government that everybody else is going to have to

727
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: deal with and work with. And frankly, I think at

728
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: this point that's the position that Republicans should adopt. That's

729
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: still sort of like, you know, technically free market solution.

730
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: The Democrats in the left should push medicare for all,

731
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: and we should have a big debate about which direction

732
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: makes sense because this you're right about. You know, I

733
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: think we should apply the band aid right now. I

734
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: think we should extend the subsidies so people don't just

735
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: get completely screwed in the interim. But this is not

736
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: a sustainable direction. It's not good for any of our pocketbooks.

737
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: It's not good for our health. This is the reason

738
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: why we have such poor health outcomes as compared to

739
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: the entire rest of the developing world. It's part of

740
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: the picture of why our life expectancy is literally declining.

741
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: And the cost of this, you know, we pay more

742
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: than anyone else and.

743
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: We get worse results.

744
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I mean, you know, Trump's solution here

745
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: is kind of laughable of like, hey, how about we

746
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: go ahead and extend the subsidies for two years instead

747
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: of one, and like tink around the edges, but the

748
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: health Saving its account direction is also sort of you know,

749
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: absurd and pathetic and not really substantively different. So they've

750
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: been lost at sea ever since Obama stole their plan

751
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: originally effectively.

752
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the thing is is then this kind of

753
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: gets to my point. And the reason I agreed with

754
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: you about the left always talking about the issue is

755
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: the very least they're trying to address costs. And you know,

756
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: this is my issue right now is everything is about

757
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: subsidizing the healthcare industry. This whole market based thing is

758
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: fake because it doesn't actually address the monopolized and cartel

759
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: controlled costs within there. You don't have to have a

760
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: universal healthcare system. Singapore has universal coverage. It's like a

761
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: called managed competition. That's what I was talking about with

762
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: HSA's You have a very easy, you know, so called

763
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: universal coverage system which you can implement, which takes care

764
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: of lower income households, which price controls with hsas to

765
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: make it extremely affordable and efficient if you want to,

766
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: But it requires intense government intervention to make sure that

767
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: there are caps. Remember we talked about Japan here on

768
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: the show before. There's private health insurance in Japan. That's fine.

769
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: Nobody cares about the private aspect. What they care about

770
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: is the cost. And the government comes in and is like,

771
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: here's a sheet for exactly how much different services costs.

772
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: End of story. There's no internal negotiation or anything. Now,

773
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: let's be honest though, for the doctors, for somebody of

774
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: the doctors listening, they always get upset when I say this,

775
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: some of you aren't going to be getting paid nearly

776
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: as much more. Sorry, you know, that's just how it's

777
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: gotta gonna be. Now that said, we also perform the

778
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: education system, so you don't need to make three hundred

779
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: and fifty four hundred thousand dollars to pay off three

780
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty or four hundred thousand dollars in debt.

781
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: If you net it out, it should be more equal.

782
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: That's how it is in the most of the rest

783
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: of the world. So, I mean, I don't know, from

784
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: top to bottom. We have so many problems here, every

785
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: single idea. I just want to underscore. While yes, you know,

786
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: it probably would be better in the interim to extend

787
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: this for a year just to bring down the overall costs,

788
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: it's still just so you know, repulsive to hand billions,

789
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: I mean tens of billions of dollars to these disgusting

790
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: insurance companies. B three, let's go and put that up

791
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: here on the screen. Republicans pushing the Obamacare tax credit

792
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: alternative potentially as enrollment deadline looms. This, by the way,

793
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: is just like classic GOP policy. They're like, well, what

794
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: we'll do is we'll create a tax credit which you

795
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: eventually have to claim in some way, and that should

796
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: offset the cost of enrollment. And it's like, that's not

797
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: how people make decisions, right. This is what they always

798
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: try to come back to with these complicated kind of schemes.

799
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: This is the way that they did Social Security is

800
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: by you know, manipulating deductions and such that you still

801
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: have to technically pay tax on Social Security, but you'll

802
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: get it back or somehow in the way that you

803
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 1: pay it. And all it does is when people can't

804
00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: understand it's complicated. It's too much like engineering with the

805
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: tax system, and it makes it again so that yes,

806
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: the cost will continue to go out or the price

807
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: will continue to go up on your overall premium. However

808
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: it nets out on taxes. I'm not exactly one hundred

809
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: percent sure, but that the end result is still the same,

810
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: is subsidizing the healthcare system and the current healthcare system.

811
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: I just feel disgusted by it, I really do, just

812
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: because I know so many people my own experience certainly,

813
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: but it's really not about me. It's just like everybody

814
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: else who Nobody has a good story. Everybody has some

815
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: insane tale. You know. I'm friends with a lot of

816
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: new parents just about how they're you know, if your

817
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: kid had to be in the nick you like minded,

818
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: Oh it didn't transfer properly. I got a horrible bill

819
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: in this hospital, out of network network the healthcare they

820
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: deny the pediatrician visit. It's just nuts, right, and you're

821
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: sitting there in the hospital worrying about whether your kid

822
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: can breathe, and then two weeks later you say, you know,

823
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: I have a sigh of relief, and somebody's sending you

824
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: a bill for fifteen thousand dollars. I can't deal with that.

825
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous.

826
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: You talk and you talk to anyone who moves to

827
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: this country and is used to a different healthcare system,

828
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: and they're just like, what the like this is incomprehensible.

829
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: It's impenetrable. I have a close friend who had to

830
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: go through a series of surgeries. She's going through physical

831
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: therapy now, before every appointment, she calls the health insurance

832
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: company and is like this is covered, right, They're like yes,

833
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: and then she goes to the appointment and gets a

834
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: giant bill with denied stamped on it after the fact,

835
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: like it's just I mean, it's just unacceptable what we

836
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: what we do to people, and the rising cost of

837
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: it all has just made it completely unsustainable. But B

838
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: five up on the screen. This was I think some

839
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: polling that was done during the shutdown about you know,

840
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 2: where people how people felt about the ACA tax credits,

841
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: whether they wanted them extended, And even a majority of

842
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: Republicans said, you know, yes, we should extend these ACA

843
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: tax credits because the consequence of not a failing to

844
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: do it is so incredibly dire. So I'm sure this

845
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: is part of what the Trump White House is looking

846
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: at and they're realizing, like, we've got a big problem

847
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: with affordability. We just got our asses handed to us

848
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: in these off year elections. The midterms are looking extremely dire.

849
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: But then instead of consulting with anyone, you know, who

850
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: actually is responsible for passing legislation in the House of

851
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: the Senate. They're like, we're just going to announce some stuff,

852
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: and this is a good preview for a segment we're

853
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: going to do later about the number of Republicans who

854
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 2: may be thinking of resigning because they're just sort of

855
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: disgusted with the way they're treated like potted plants. Now,

856
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: I would say that they've allowed themselves to be treated

857
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: like potted plants, and a lot of examples, so in

858
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: my opinion, that road goes in both directions. But you know,

859
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: this is another example where the White House just like

860
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: came up with something on their own, didn't talk to

861
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: anyone about it, was ready to do some big announcement

862
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: after they came up with this idea, I don't know,

863
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: like on Saturday, and Republicans who just spent all of

864
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: how long was the shutdown fight? It was like, you know,

865
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: it was the longest in history. Yeah, it was like

866
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: six weeks long. They just spent the whole time inveighing

867
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: against these subsidies, and now you're going to just pull

868
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 2: the rug out from under them and be like, actually,

869
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: we're going to do it for two years now, so

870
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: what were we fighting about in the shutdown? Then why

871
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: couldn't we have just done this at that point and

872
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: saved everybody a lot of pain and heartache and suffering

873
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 2: that you know that was caused by the length of

874
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: that shutdown.

875
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all just so silly and stupid. But it

876
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: also though, you know, the only thing is what the

877
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: only reason I would have said, don't consult Congress is

878
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: because I know most of the Republican Congress doesn't care

879
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: at all. So it actually would have been good for

880
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: Trump to just come out and be like, this is

881
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: my plan, and all of you have just cramming down.

882
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: All of you are going to vote for one of

883
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: the good times.

884
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 3: That they probably and they probably would probably would have

885
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: exactly why they.

886
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: Get treated like pott plants because they act like them.

887
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it, all right, Let's go to Venezuela.

888
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: All right, turning down to Venezuela before Thanksgiving. Wanted to

889
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: make sure that this is on everybody's radar. The likelihood

890
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: of things popping off with Venezuela are very high over

891
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: the next week or two weeks because of some decisions

892
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: that have to be made in the military, because some

893
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: deadlines that are being imposed by Secretary Rubio, and there

894
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: are high stakes negotiations that are all happening behind the scenes.

895
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: There is a full on propaganda campaign happening at the

896
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 1: Fox News level and from the government about why invading

897
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: Venezuela would be good actually for all of you. Here

898
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: you get a little bit of a preview from the

899
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: Secretary of the Treasury, Scott beston why invading Venezuela will

900
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: bring costs down. Here's what we had to say the

901
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: peace deals.

902
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 4: We are seeing a peace dibenend from that. And I

903
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 4: think there's a very very good chance that if something

904
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 4: happens with Russia, Ukraine, if something happens down in Venezuela,

905
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 4: that we could really see oil prices go down even more.

906
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 4: Oil and gasoline prices are down substantially under President Trump,

907
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 4: and that is really the key to affordability is lower energy.

908
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: Right, So it'll bring down fuel prices. We'll avoid the country,

909
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll all go. Well, then we'll take the Now

910
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: here's the thing that would all make sense if Maduro

911
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: didn't also say you can have all the oil. He said,

912
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: you can have any oil that you guys want. And

913
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: it's amazing how they're really relying on everybody to ignore

914
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: the fact that from the beginning of these negotiations Maduro

915
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: has been willing and able to sell whatever oil to

916
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: the United States that he has. He said, you can

917
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: have all of it if you want to. Just don't,

918
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: you know, don't bug me too much. Let me resign ish.

919
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: You know, I'll leave in a few years. But with dignity.

920
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: Why is that not enough? Oh, because it's not about

921
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: the oil. It's a completely ideological war pushed by the

922
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: contingent of South Florida, from which unfortunately, our Secretary of

923
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: State happens to come from. And just to give you

924
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: a little taste of what that looks like, here's one

925
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: of their congresswomen on Fox News talking all about this

926
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 1: and setting again the groundwork for a potential invasion. Take

927
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: a listen.

928
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 7: So, I mean, I would love to see a change

929
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 7: in government. My wife's from Nicaraugula. We know how terribly

930
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 7: the dictators there rely on Venezuelan oil. But at the

931
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 7: same time, a lot of Americans don't want actual US

932
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 7: participation in regime change in Venezuela. They would much prefer

933
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 7: the Venezuelans to do it. On their own. Do you

934
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 7: think the pressure that Maduro has received will force him

935
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 7: to leave on his own?

936
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: Oh?

937
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 8: I think Maduro is not Fredel Castro. Maduro is not

938
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 8: a brave boy. So now that he has understood that

939
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 8: he's on that very nefarious list of the terrorist organization,

940
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 8: that the airspace above Venezuela has been closed off and

941
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 8: the commercial airlines from the United States are not flying,

942
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 8: he's understanding that we're about to go in. He understands

943
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 8: that he is he has been our enemy for the

944
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 8: last twenty five years. Venezuela. For those Americans who do

945
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 8: not understand why we need to go in for three basically,

946
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 8: for three reasons, you're in fox business. Venezuela for the

947
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 8: American can oil companies will be a field day because

948
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 8: it will be more than a trillion dollars in economic activity.

949
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 8: American companies can go in and fix all the oil

950
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 8: pipe and the whole oil rigs and everything that has

951
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 8: to do with the Venezuela and petroleum companies or anything

952
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 8: that has to do with oil and the derivatives.

953
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: So everything that has to do it'll be a field

954
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: day for American companies. I mean, has anyone you know

955
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: The one thing I appreciate is opposed to Iraq is

956
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: at least this time they just say it. They're like, yeah,

957
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: it's about the oil, it'll be good.

958
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: But you know, crazy thing is like it's not even

959
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: really true.

960
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 3: You know, it's not true point.

961
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, it's like it's almost like the aspirational

962
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 2: thing is for it to be about the oil, but

963
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 2: it really is this like cold war holdover mentality. They've

964
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: tried every argument they could think of to get Americans

965
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: somewhat on board with this in a very slappy, sloppy

966
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: and haphazard and frankly insulting way. You know, we're not

967
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 2: going to buy into like we're spreading democracy, and so

968
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: we have to do it. Like people are like, yeah, sorry,

969
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: they can you know, no, we're not doing this again.

970
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 3: We've learned those lessons.

971
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: So they're like, oh, but the fentanyl and the gangs

972
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: and the you know, it's it's they're terrorizing us, and

973
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: that's why we have to do it. And then even

974
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: seemingly the president realized that this was such total, incomplete

975
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 2: bullshit that that was not landing either. So now they're like, oh, okay,

976
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: affordability was big and twenty twenty five, we saw zoron

977
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: Mike You Share all these people like got elected talking

978
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: about affordability.

979
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: That's what it is. It's the oil. It's going to

980
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: bring down our energy prices. That's what we're going for here.

981
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 2: But to your point, like I mean, first of all,

982
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 2: that's a disgusting reason to invade a country, Number one, discusting, immoral.

983
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: Any other era of politics, they would have denied tooth

984
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: and nail that that was what was behind their motivations

985
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: and wrap themselves in some sort of like you know,

986
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 2: freedom and human.

987
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: Rights or whatever.

988
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: But now they're like just nakedly claiming it's about the oil.

989
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: And that's not even true because you could have a

990
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: deal with Maduro. And if you do go in and

991
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: invade and overturn this regime, whether through kinetic action or

992
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: some sort of CIA covert ops, which are probably already

993
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: ongoing as we speak, if you do that, you're much

994
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: more likely to end up with a failed state and

995
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: an even larger more difficulties in striking any sort of

996
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 2: a deal that's going to be beneficial for the world,

997
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: let alone the American public. So the whole thing is

998
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 2: like layers of insanity honestly.

999
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: Right, and so then let me give again. I'll give

1000
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: you two sides of it. And this is a live issue.

1001
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: This is all playing out in the public, okay. So

1002
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: let's put this up here on the screen. The ground

1003
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: is set for a potential invasion southcom which is the area.

1004
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: The military command which would be in charge of carrying

1005
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: out an invasion or decapitation, is restricting and limiting leave

1006
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: for its soldiers over the Thanksgiving Christmas holidays in preparation

1007
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: for possible land strikes in the next ten days to

1008
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: two weeks. This was reported by Kelly Myers, who's the

1009
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: White House correspondent for News Nation Now. At the same time,

1010
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: just yesterday, huge flights show of strengths that have continued.

1011
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. Two US

1012
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: flights of B fifty two stratospheres departed from their Air

1013
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: Force base to the Caribbean Sea, basically a power and

1014
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: a force projection near Venezuela. They just fly along the

1015
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: coast and make it very clear, Yeah, we can bomb you,

1016
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: you know if we want to. This is right here,

1017
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: it's all coming. C three, let's go to the next

1018
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: part please, and it'll just show you is that there

1019
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: were actually members of SOUTHCOM and others who resigned because

1020
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: they did not believe that the strikes on the drug

1021
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: boats were legal. And behind that there was multiple general

1022
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: counsels and others that had to be fired and removed.

1023
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: And these are not just so you got this is

1024
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: one thing to explain here. These people who resigned or

1025
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: were removed. These are not liberals. These are not resistance

1026
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: James COMI or whatever types. These are. They're actually, like

1027
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: I very rarely say this, but like, these are actual

1028
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: pros and in many ways they want to make it work.

1029
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. If you got firing and

1030
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: removal people are working for CIA, NSA and others. They've

1031
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: greenlit some sketches shit. Some of these are the people

1032
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: who like, these are the organizations was greenlit the killing

1033
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: of American citizens, including you know, so called terrorists and others,

1034
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: in order to kill them with no due process. That's

1035
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: what they have done and have signed off on. Not

1036
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: exactly the squishiest folks of that are out there drone

1037
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: strikes in Pakistan. So if they're coming out and being

1038
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: like this is real dicey, you know right here, that

1039
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: is kind of the biggest red flag is instead of

1040
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: looking at it as like some deep state liberal of

1041
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: looking at it as like, man, the people who have

1042
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: greenlit like drone strike, murder on weddings and the killing

1043
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: of anwar alwiki with no due process. If even they

1044
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: come out and say this is you know, this is

1045
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: on the edge there, that actually is probably the one

1046
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: that made me like actually wake up and be like,

1047
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: oh man, they must be taking things to a whole

1048
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: new level. If even these deep state guys they don't

1049
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 1: care one iote about killing anybody, so for them to

1050
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: say something that made me actually be like, oh god,

1051
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: this is not good. This is fair.

1052
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, this shit isn't sane. Like the

1053
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 2: reporting about the memo that's been used as legal justification

1054
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: makes it clear that they're just using the claims of

1055
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Trump rather than any actual analysis or reality. And their

1056
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: claim is that effectively, drug cartels their real business is

1057
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,839
Speaker 2: violence and terrorism, and the drug money is to finance

1058
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 2: the violence and terrorism, rather than that like the common

1059
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 2: under and accurate understanding, which is that their core business

1060
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 2: is selling drugs and making money, and the violence is

1061
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: the result of this lawless and criminal behavior. And then

1062
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 2: there's the whole you know, inventing this cartel that Maduro

1063
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 2: is supposedly the head of. I mean, it's just all

1064
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: utterly preposterous. And what they're claiming the power to do

1065
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: is literally murder anyone anywhere that they say has some

1066
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: connection to the drug trade. I mean they're literally using

1067
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, this legal nonsense to try to justify whatever

1068
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: extra judicial assassinations they want to commit. So even for

1069
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 2: these you know, cia ghoul lawyer types, they're like, Yo,

1070
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: this is really far. This connects to We'll talk later

1071
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: about the Mark Kelly stuff. And you know, this is

1072
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: the subtext of the video the Democrats put out, like, hey,

1073
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be obeying unlawful commands.

1074
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 3: This is the area.

1075
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: I mean, they're doing all kinds of illegal shit, but

1076
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: this is the one that is like the most brazen

1077
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 2: and the most glaring. And you can tell that from

1078
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: the fact they've had to fire a bunch of people

1079
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: just in order to coerce some sort of a memo

1080
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: with some sort of a justification for this insanity.

1081
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just look beyond the whole legal thing.

1082
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: It's just a bad idea. It's a horrible idea. Let's

1083
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: go and put C four up here on the screen.

1084
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: Just to underscore all of this. The leaks are galower.

1085
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: These are all coming out of the State Department, from

1086
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: the Rubio camp us to launch new phase of Venezuela operations,

1087
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: and they say the United States has points to launch

1088
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: this new phase in the coming days. Reuters did not

1089
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: establish exact timing, but it would include CIA and potential

1090
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: military operations on Venezuelan soils, including demands that Maduro leave power.

1091
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: I do want to say, and this is important, is

1092
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: that at the same time, there is kind of a

1093
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: dual track that's happening. So a lot of what we're

1094
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: showing you right now is coming from the military and

1095
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: from the Secretary of Rubio. But there's a recent report

1096
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: and this confirms a little bit of what I've been

1097
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,959
Speaker 1: hearing behind the scenes as well. Trump wants to talk

1098
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: directly to Venezuela, to Maduro. There you know why, he

1099
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: doesn't trust that he's getting all the information from Marco

1100
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: Rubio and from the National security establishment. In a way,

1101
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: he can feel that he is himself getting played, and

1102
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 1: so before anything kicks off, he does want to speak

1103
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: directly with him, potentially on the phone or you know,

1104
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: some sort of summit. It's not exactly clear, but what

1105
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: he did say is that with this talk and all

1106
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: this backed up by the whole quote gunboat diplomacy that's

1107
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: happening down there, that there is at the very least

1108
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: some potential here of an off ramp. Who knows, you know,

1109
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: Maduro himself, he's been quite a salesman recently. He's been

1110
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: trying actually to relay all of these things in Trump.

1111
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll sell you the oil, give you what

1112
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: you want. You know, this isn't really about socialism or whatever.

1113
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: You're being played, you know, by your neo con secretary

1114
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: of State. So the fact that Trump is willing to

1115
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: speak to him is actually one of the most positive developments.

1116
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it's going to solve everything, but

1117
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: there's been an ocean of propaganda that's been sent to

1118
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's desk. Trump actually speaking to Maduro could potentially

1119
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: solve at least something. I'm gonna hope. That's my last

1120
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: holdout for hope. That's all I'll say.

1121
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 3: Tager.

1122
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you say the leaks to Reuters in

1123
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: other places about hey, we're kicking off a new phase

1124
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: of operas in Venezuela that you think that's coming from

1125
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: the Rubio camp, because the other possibility would be it's

1126
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: coming from people who don't want to see this going

1127
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 2: forward and trying to raise red flags. I mean, what's

1128
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: your sense of that.

1129
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you're not wrong. But part of the reason why. Look,

1130
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: they they believe in the political upside and the benefit

1131
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: of this. In some ways, they're not one hundred percent

1132
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: wrong in that is Venezuela really a huge story outside

1133
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: of this show? And if you I mean, is anyone

1134
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: on cable news even talking about Venezuela other than Fox

1135
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: News to not really right? So they pretty much think

1136
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: they can take care of this in the clear. They're

1137
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: telling them it'll be a cakewalk, no boots on the ground,

1138
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: just a couple strikes, no failed state. You know, he's

1139
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: getting a wash in propaganda. Look at Iron, Sir, Midnight Hammer.

1140
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: You took him out and we came out.

1141
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 5: Now.

1142
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we can talk about all the

1143
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: downstream implications and all of that if we want to,

1144
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: But like the nuts and bolts of it are they

1145
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: think that the American public are paying attention and they

1146
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: don't care even though the vast majority of people when

1147
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: they are polled say that they oppose it. They're like, yeah,

1148
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: they'll get over it, do something and won't require a

1149
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: huge force. Now you may have heard that story before

1150
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: in a little place called Libya, but you know they're like, well,

1151
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: this is different. We have our Maria Machado who's ready

1152
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: to go. So in a lot of way, you know,

1153
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: they're bragging about this, and also a lot of this

1154
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: is pressure. Their ideal scenario is that Trump is that

1155
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: Maduro just steps down out of nowhere and you know,

1156
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: basically hands power over to Maria Mashadow. I mean, they

1157
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: just don't. That's a total misunderstanding of Even if he did,

1158
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: let's say, step down, there's a whole apparatus, military and

1159
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: others that depend on him and his regime staying in Poway.

1160
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: You think he's just gonna give up power. Let's say,

1161
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: if you really believe their own propaganda is the head

1162
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: of this global car or this venezuela and large cartel.

1163
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: Do cartels just stop operating when El Chappo and these

1164
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: people go away? No, Okay, so even by their own logic,

1165
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any damn sense.

1166
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1167
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's all.

1168
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 2: Maduro will tell you, we have plenty of mineral and

1169
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: oil wealth. We don't need to sell drugs. Why would

1170
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: we do that.

1171
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: He's always like, you know, I've heard this from multiple

1172
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: people who met him. He's like, guys, I don't sell drugs.

1173
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: I don't need to. You know. It's one of those

1174
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: things where we call him corrupt, like okay, you know,

1175
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, but you're corrupt to we say you

1176
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: stole the election. It's like, oh, well, you know. But

1177
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: it's like the drug thing is like where does this

1178
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: shit come from? He's like mystified at the idea that

1179
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: he's a drug mutle.

1180
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really feels it really does feel like and

1181
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 2: it feels like this new messaging from Bessen and Salazar

1182
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: and who knows who else, it's really aimed at Trump

1183
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: to try to convince him like, oh, they can see

1184
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: now Trump's fixation is like, oh, affordability. I got to

1185
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: focus on affordability. So whereas before he was fixated on

1186
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: like fentanyl and the drug dealers and trend de ragua,

1187
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 2: now they're like, oh, okay, now he's moved on and

1188
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 2: he's focused on affordability. So we're going to make that

1189
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: pitch to him now and see if we can get

1190
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: him to and you know, and if this effort fails,

1191
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 2: they're not going to stop right whatever his next interest is,

1192
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: they'll be like, hey, if you you take on Maduro,

1193
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: it's going to help you build the ballroom.

1194
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is that he's interested in.

1195
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 2: They're going to keep cycling through whatever rationales they possibly can,

1196
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 2: is what it feels like to me.

1197
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.