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Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought

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Speaker 2: I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know what to

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Speaker 2: do because there was no internet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything

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Speaker 1: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a

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Speaker 1: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now

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Speaker 1: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you

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Speaker 1: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to you need therapy.

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Speaker 1: Hi guys, I'll going to a new episode of Eating

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Speaker 1: Therapy Podcasts. My name is Kat, and welcome now. Today

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Speaker 1: we are going to be tackling a subject that might

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Speaker 1: be surprising, might feel weird, might feel off. You might

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Speaker 1: be like, what does this have to do with anything

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Speaker 1: that you really talk about or know about? And I

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Speaker 1: promise in the end it will all make sense. Today

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Speaker 1: I am asking the question, why is everyone obsessed with

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Speaker 1: golf all of a sudden or did I make that up?

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Speaker 1: And it just feels that way because the people around

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Speaker 1: me are obsessed with golf. To me personally, it feels

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Speaker 1: like the last couple of years, golf has become America's

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Speaker 1: new obsession. And this is a traditionally not just male

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Speaker 1: dominated sport, but a male only sport. So I had

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Speaker 1: my guard up around this game or sport. Well, I

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Speaker 1: could debate if it's a game, if it's sport. I'll

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Speaker 1: probably mention that again later, But in my opinion, previously

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Speaker 1: this was like a fast way to get bored or

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Speaker 1: fall asleep. When I would think of golf, I would

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Speaker 1: think of khakis. I would think of pastell striped polos

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Speaker 1: and hitting a tiny little ball for four hours into

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Speaker 1: a hole that it barely fits in, and it's giving.

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Speaker 1: There has to be something better to do energy. I

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a golf household, so I largely

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Speaker 1: avoided by accident or luck, however you look at it,

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Speaker 1: any talk about golf, other than when we held our

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Speaker 1: annual golf tournament fundraiser for my high school soccer team,

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Speaker 1: which was really very confusing for me. I always thought

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Speaker 1: there had to be a better way to raise money

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Speaker 1: for our soccer team, but I wasn't in charge and

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Speaker 1: nobody asked me, so I just did what I was told,

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Speaker 1: and that was truly one of the most boring days

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Speaker 1: of my summer. And if I'm being honest, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure if our high school had a golf team.

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Speaker 1: It would make sense if we did, but I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: bet money on it because I wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: tell you who was on the team, if the team

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Speaker 1: was any good they even played golf felt like the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing the popular kids would shove you into

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Speaker 1: a locker for talking about, like it was never anything

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Speaker 1: I remember people getting excited about talking about, if anything,

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Speaker 1: when I remember the word golfer, golf course, it was

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Speaker 1: because somebody was throwing a party on a golf course

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Speaker 1: or drinking on the golf course in the neighborhood that

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Speaker 1: their parents lived, or that they lived. I guess they

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Speaker 1: lived with their parents in high school. So I'm just

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Speaker 1: curious and I want to get to the bottom of

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Speaker 1: why now in twenty twenty four are the high school

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Speaker 1: jocks of yesteryear turned finance bros of America and beyond that,

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Speaker 1: making golf their personality. And as I prepare to hit

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Speaker 1: the course with my husband tomorrow because we have an

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Speaker 1: eight am TA time on a Saturday, never thought this

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Speaker 1: would be my life, I'm asking the question why am

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Speaker 1: I excited about it? Why would I agree to do that?

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Speaker 1: So let's get into it. When I found out my

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Speaker 1: now husband was a golfer, I can't remember having a

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Speaker 1: shred of excitement. Rather, confusion entered the chat I had

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Speaker 1: more so some concerns. Does he think golf is a sport? Also?

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Speaker 1: Is it a sport? Because it feels just like a

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Speaker 1: game to me, and it feels like something that requires

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Speaker 1: more skill than athleticism. That's one of my favorite debates

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Speaker 1: to have. But also is this a reflection of his personality?

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Speaker 1: Am I gonna fall asleep listening to him talk about golf?

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Speaker 1: Or like, is this whole thing I scam that gives

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Speaker 1: men pre excuses to leave the house for four hours

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Speaker 1: for the sake of exercise or business or self care.

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Speaker 1: But most of all, what I wanted to know was,

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Speaker 1: out of all the things you could like and be

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Speaker 1: interested in, why golf? And don't even get me started

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Speaker 1: on the questions and concerns that came up when I

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Speaker 1: found out that he also watches golf on TV, which

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Speaker 1: shout out to JP Sacks and Lenin Stella. Their song

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Speaker 1: Golf on TV I highly relate to and also highly recommend.

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Speaker 1: It's a great song. You guys, I should listen to it.

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Speaker 1: So I did some digging and not just watching season

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Speaker 1: one and two a Full Swing, which I have also

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Speaker 1: done and highly recommend that as well. You would be

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Speaker 1: surprised and shocked, and we'll get into that, but I

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Speaker 1: did what every reputable researcher does when they come up

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Speaker 1: with a question and have three days to turn it

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Speaker 1: into a podcast. Side note, I also don't know if

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Speaker 1: I've talked about this on here, but I think in

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Speaker 1: another life I would have loved to be an investigative journalist,

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Speaker 1: like a cast member in the movie Spotlight Meets the

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Speaker 1: person who wrote the GQ article that exposed Jay Shetty

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Speaker 1: for being well a fraud. Also highly recommend that article

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Speaker 1: if you have not read it yet. So the first

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Speaker 1: thing that I saw of that was kind of of

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Speaker 1: note to me of importance when I was doing my

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Speaker 1: little Google search was that in twenty nineteen, there was

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Speaker 1: an estimated four hundred and forty one million rounds of

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Speaker 1: golf played in the world, and then despite the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: that increased by ten million in twenty twenty, and in

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Speaker 1: the last year there has been an increase of eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand rounds of golf. Put that into perspective,

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Speaker 1: from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty, it increased by ten million,

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Speaker 1: when it's like normally increasing like eight hundred and sixty thousand, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's a huge shift. So twenty twenty was the biggest

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Speaker 1: level of growth of people playing golf since Tiger Woods

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Speaker 1: became a celebrity. So if the pandemic encouraged more people

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Speaker 1: to get out and play, I then started wondering, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well what kept them coming back. I understand that golf

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Speaker 1: would be something that people would get into during the

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Speaker 1: pandemic because it's outside. They's social distancing, it allows you

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Speaker 1: to be active to a degree, it's nature, the scenery.

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Speaker 1: You can, i mean, do some business deals on the

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Speaker 1: golf course. I get why there would be an increase

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Speaker 1: to that extent, I'm not sure. But then what I

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Speaker 1: was just curious about is, Okay, I started doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of things during the pandemic because it was what

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Speaker 1: was available. But I didn't keep doing all of them.

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Speaker 1: And so why is golf now continuing to grow and

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Speaker 1: grow and grow and grow and grow. What kept people

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Speaker 1: coming back? Especially because if you don't think golf is boring,

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Speaker 1: if you get past that and you think it's exciting

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Speaker 1: to some degree, you're bound to find it to be

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Speaker 1: one of the hardest games you ever played. And the

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Speaker 1: only way I can sum that out up is I

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Speaker 1: was frustrated once, you know, out on the driving range

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Speaker 1: hitting some balls, and my husband told me, no one

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Speaker 1: is good at golf. We are all just different levels

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Speaker 1: of bad. And that makes so much sense to me.

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Speaker 1: It's such a difficult game that nobody's really getting really

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Speaker 1: really good. We're just all getting less bad, I guess

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Speaker 1: when we continue to play. And so if that is

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Speaker 1: the kind of game this is, it's a very frustrating game.

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Speaker 1: What keeps people coming back? Why do people want to

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Speaker 1: see in it? Why do people want to be a

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Speaker 1: part of it, want to be affiliated with it, want

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Speaker 1: to know about it, want to talk about it? And

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Speaker 1: I have my issues with golf in the boys club

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Speaker 1: of it, all country clubs with men's only lounges and

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Speaker 1: the history of excluding women, and I also, at the

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Speaker 1: same time really have worked on myself the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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Speaker 1: So golf from a systemic and historical standpoint includes a

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Speaker 1: lot of problematic, old and ongoing issues. I could talk

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Speaker 1: about those, probably for the rest of this podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to because also there is something about this

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Speaker 1: new wave of golf that does feel inclusive, it does

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Speaker 1: feel interesting, and I think at the root of it

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Speaker 1: all it feels kind of cool. Now. My first memory

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Speaker 1: of being somewhat interested in golf came when I saw

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Speaker 1: a guy with bleached blonde hair that looked like he

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Speaker 1: was a former member of n Sync or possibly like

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Speaker 1: a cousin of the Jonahs brothers, as my friend's husband

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Speaker 1: was watching some golf tournament on TV, which again would

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Speaker 1: previously feel to me more like a way to fall

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Speaker 1: asleep than a way to be entertained. But I digress.

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Speaker 1: So who was this guy? This was Brooks Koepka, who

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Speaker 1: I am for the record, no longer a fan of,

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Speaker 1: but I have to credit him here. He didn't look

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Speaker 1: like a golfer to me. He was interesting. He captivated me.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know more about him. He wasn't just

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Speaker 1: a dude in khakis and a polo that looked like

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Speaker 1: his mom got him with her coals cash. He had style.

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Speaker 1: He had like a swag to him. And I say

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Speaker 1: that meaning like he looked like a guy that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be friends with, or you at least wanted

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Speaker 1: to know, or somebody that you wanted to know you.

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Speaker 1: He was interesting. That's the word that keeps coming up,

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Speaker 1: the opposite of boring. He looked cool. Now fast forward

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Speaker 1: months later, after hours of begging, I finally caved and

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Speaker 1: decided to watch Full Swing with my husband, which I

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Speaker 1: ended up crying during. I became emotionally attached to the

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Speaker 1: stories of some of these players. And you can also

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Speaker 1: attribute Full Swing to the end of my affinity of Brooks.

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Speaker 1: If you know, you know, I don't even have to

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Speaker 1: explain that. But I was captivated by the stories of

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Speaker 1: these players. It wasn't so much the game, but the

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Speaker 1: lives behind the game that was being played. And I

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Speaker 1: think that this is key. People are not just watching

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Speaker 1: golf on TV anymore. People are watching players. A relational

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Speaker 1: wall was kind of built that allows people like us

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Speaker 1: to feel like they know these guys that they are

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Speaker 1: rooting for a good end to a good story that

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Speaker 1: they can connect to in some way, that they can

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Speaker 1: relate to in some way. And again, they are rooting

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Speaker 1: for guys that you would want to be friends with.

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Speaker 1: Golf doesn't just feel like an old man's sport that

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Speaker 1: your grandfather plays as he smokes cigars and closes a

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Speaker 1: business deal. I think golf's marketing team are their pr

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Speaker 1: team or whoever does all this stuff needs a race

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Speaker 1: because it went from like Papa to popular kid energy.

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Speaker 1: In the blink of an eye. Golf got cool and

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Speaker 1: we all want to be cool. Right you might be saying, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be cool, but to an extent,

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Speaker 1: we all do. We want to belong, we want to

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Speaker 1: move towards the pack. But golf has been rebranded into

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Speaker 1: something that makes us feel like we are going to

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Speaker 1: be closer to being in versus almost like a risky thing,

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Speaker 1: a different thing, you know, Like it's not the outlier,

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Speaker 1: it's the more like the rule. More people are playing

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Speaker 1: and they're not playing. Maybe it's the change of the

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Speaker 1: style and the clothes. Maybe it's all the cool gadgets

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Speaker 1: and things like that. Maybe it's the sleek gear or

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Speaker 1: guys like Scottie Scheffler who look like they are thriving

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Speaker 1: and living the American dream. I think it's a mix

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Speaker 1: of all of those things. And I could go on

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Speaker 1: and on about my beliefs about some of the stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't really go as far to call myself

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Speaker 1: a golf fan. I'm more of a golf light interested.

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Speaker 1: If there's nothing else happening, Suery'll play nine holes, but

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Speaker 1: I'm really going to get tired after six kind of girl.

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Speaker 1: So what I think is going to be most helpful

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Speaker 1: here is to bring on someone who is a real

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Speaker 1: fan of the game, who has watched the shift in

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Speaker 1: the transition, has been also a part of that, and

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Speaker 1: hear his take in. That person is my husband. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to bring Patrick on and ask him a

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Speaker 1: couple questions to really understand what is it that is

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Speaker 1: drawing people into this game and what is keeping them there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I have my husband Patrick here, who has been

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Speaker 1: playing golf since he was ten years old. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to start with, in your opinion, how has golf

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Speaker 1: evolved since ubmm?

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Speaker 2: Playing as a kid, golf just feels much bigger now,

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Speaker 2: like there's just a lot more people playing, a lot

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Speaker 2: more eyes on the professional sport then. I feel like

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid, I feel like not that

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Speaker 2: many people outside of like my grandpa were like really

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Speaker 2: really into golf. But now it just feels like golf

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Speaker 2: touches kind of all different types of groups. I feel

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Speaker 2: like in the last five to ten years, it's really

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Speaker 2: kind of expanded.

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Speaker 1: I talked earlier about how golf has did explode after

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, which makes sense because of COVID and it

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Speaker 1: was a game you could play outside. It was a

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Speaker 1: game you could then see your friends and be around

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Speaker 1: your friends outside in a safe environment. So it exploded then,

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Speaker 1: but people then since every year after that, it's also grown.

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Speaker 1: And from what I read, golf was a declining sport

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Speaker 1: before twenty twenty, people every year were playing less rounds

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Speaker 1: of golf versus more rounds of golf. Part of that

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Speaker 1: speaks to it's not seen as so much a grandpa

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Speaker 1: sport like you said, or a game depending on how

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Speaker 1: you look at it. What do you think I think

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Speaker 1: kept people playing after COVID now that they weren't playing

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Speaker 1: just because it was something that was available. Why do

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Speaker 1: you think it kept growing after that versus going back

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Speaker 1: to how it was declining.

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Speaker 2: Like you said, I mean, it really felt like pandemic.

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Speaker 2: People were looking for ways to be able to hang

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Speaker 2: out with people and and do things, and that resulted

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Speaker 2: in being outside a lot, obviously, and that was a

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Speaker 2: good activity that people started getting into. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I think some people had never tried golf before that point,

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Speaker 2: and really once they kind of got a taste for it,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think people just kind of kept up

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Speaker 2: with it at that point. I meant that's how I

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Speaker 2: always had felt about golf, was that, you know, you

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Speaker 2: spend a little bit of time and you're you're kind

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Speaker 2: of hooked on it. So, you know, I think that

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Speaker 2: opportunity of people seeing it as a as an activity

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Speaker 2: they'd want to spend their time on, and that has

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Speaker 2: really just carried over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to say this exactly, but you

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Speaker 1: said this that golf used to be a game that

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Speaker 1: your grandfather played, and so when you thought a golfer,

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Speaker 1: you thought of an old man. I don't have that

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Speaker 1: experience anymore. How did that change? And how do you

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Speaker 1: think that idea When I think we're a professional golfer,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of different people. So how has that changed

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Speaker 1: people's interests in the game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean I think you used to

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Speaker 2: watch golf back in the day, probably right, you know,

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Speaker 2: pre Tiger Woods, and you saw a guy that maybe

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Speaker 2: looked like he just got off the couch. You know,

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Speaker 2: you don't think of, oh, this is a sport with

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Speaker 2: like athletes in it. But that's exactly what it has

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Speaker 2: turned into starting with Tiger and then you know, even

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Speaker 2: more so in the last five to ten years, where

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Speaker 2: there are guys that are serious athletes that you know,

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Speaker 2: some of them probably could have played other sports as well,

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Speaker 2: you know. But you know, I think professional golf, I

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Speaker 2: mean there's just a lot more eyeballs on it, a

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Speaker 2: lot more money being poured into it. I think players

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Speaker 2: know that they weren't I guess taking it seriously before,

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Speaker 2: but you know, they're spending a lot more time honing

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Speaker 2: their craft. And I think technology as well has brought

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Speaker 2: a different way of looking at how to refine your

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Speaker 2: your game. And so these these athletes now are are

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Speaker 2: getting bigger and stronger, and it definitely has changed the

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Speaker 2: mindset of even casual golf fans, like what they think

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Speaker 2: about the sport.

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Speaker 1: Now, the people that they are looking at on TV,

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Speaker 1: how would you describe them?

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Speaker 2: They're truly athletes. I mean I've always argued that golf

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Speaker 2: is an athletic sport, but I mean you can very

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Speaker 2: much see that's the case now. I think, especially for

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Speaker 2: kind of the younger generation, seeing that as really you know,

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Speaker 2: galvanized them to take golf more seriously in terms of

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Speaker 2: just like being a sport to sit down and watch

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Speaker 2: and enjoy.

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Speaker 1: When you said like little kids, like younger kids, they're

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Speaker 1: looking at these golfers as I don't know what word exactly,

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Speaker 1: like heroes or role.

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Speaker 2: Models versus before larger than life figures.

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Speaker 1: Before it was like looking at like an old geezer,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like an old man, and you're not

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Speaker 1: like looking after that person and want to be like him.

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Speaker 1: But I think what I've seen, and this is from

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Speaker 1: a perspective that I'm not that into golf, but now

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Speaker 1: the players that are in the top and that you

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Speaker 1: see on TV and social media and all that are

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Speaker 1: people that have some kind of like star quality, whether

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Speaker 1: that's a subtle star quality, or like a big like

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Speaker 1: larger than life star quality. There are people that you

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Speaker 1: can relate to incertain things. They feel like they're people

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Speaker 1: that you would want to be friends with, that you

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Speaker 1: would want to know.

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Speaker 2: They're very cool now. I don't think you'd ever say

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Speaker 2: that twenty years ago, that oh, that golfer is really cool.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that's a big reason why people

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Speaker 1: are wanting to be a part of golf is because

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Speaker 1: it is seemed totally different in that way. The players

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Speaker 1: are cool. They're like the jocks that would be sitting

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Speaker 1: at the popular table at school versus like in the

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Speaker 1: corner nobody even knows. Like in high school, I can't

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Speaker 1: even tell you if we had a golf team or not.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to tell you who the golfers

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Speaker 2: on the team work.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they were like wearing Franklin golf

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Speaker 1: sweatshirts everywhere like I don't. I mean maybe they weren't.

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Speaker 1: I was paying attention to it. But I think now

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Speaker 1: the golfers people know them and you want to know them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're absolutely celebrities.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of who's your favorite professional player or favorites.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that I definitely root for

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Speaker 2: favorite changes. I mean, obviously I'll always be a Tiger

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Speaker 2: Woids guy, but you have to say that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's that's why I grew up idolizing, And it was

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Speaker 2: like the first.

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Speaker 1: Guy that made it cool maybe, but he was kind

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Speaker 1: of like was he did?

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Speaker 2: He have like, oh, who's cool?

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Speaker 1: Style?

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Speaker 2: And he was kind of awkward, but like he he

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Speaker 2: just had so much confidence. And I think I thinks

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Speaker 2: just winning that much makes you makes you cool a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: And doing the things he did was I think probably

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Speaker 1: you looked at in off like oh wow, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean he's got so many moments that are like

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Speaker 2: how do that? Yeah, I would say, now, if I

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Speaker 2: have to put someone at the top, it's actually a newcomer.

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Speaker 2: I think he's burst on the scene the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years. His name is sith Thigala.

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Speaker 1: I love that you love him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well he's he's great and he was in the

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Speaker 2: season of full swing when he was a rookie, so

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Speaker 2: you got a little bit of a look into his life.

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Speaker 2: He wears his heart on his sleeve. He's you know,

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Speaker 2: if he hits a bad shot, you'll know it. You'll

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Speaker 2: see it. If he hits a great shot, you'll know it,

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Speaker 2: you'll see it.

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Speaker 1: There's personality in that. Also, his dad is cute, sweet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you just root for me. He just seems

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Speaker 2: like a nice guy that's finally getting a little spotlight.

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Speaker 1: So all right, who else?

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Speaker 2: Victor Hovland, Victor Hoblin. Yeah, I like Victor Hovlin.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know anything about him. If he doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a full swing episode, I don't know much about him.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's one of the best players in the game

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Speaker 2: right now. He's from Norway, he's very much Americanized. But

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Speaker 2: he's just a guy that hits a lot of amazing

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Speaker 2: shots and had his first big moment of winning the

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Speaker 2: kind of the Full Season tournament two years ago.

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Speaker 1: There's one that you didn't say that I thought you

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Speaker 1: would say.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it's Scotti Scheffler, Like, you can't.

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Speaker 1: You can't not root He's just a yeah, Well, I

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Speaker 1: thought you were going to say Max Homap, because isn't

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Speaker 1: that the guy you said.

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Speaker 2: Like tweets a lot yeah yeah, And he.

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Speaker 1: Goes on part of My take a Lot Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is the podcast that Patrick listens to because he hasn't

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Speaker 1: listened to this one.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I would say, yes, I really like Max.

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Speaker 2: He's definitely the most normal guy that you'll probably find

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Speaker 2: in being a professional athlete.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? Like, he just doesn't

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Speaker 1: have an ego of it?

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Speaker 2: He has no ego almost too like a fault. Like

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Speaker 2: he's very much like he's pretty hard on himself and

400
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 2: stuff like that, but like it's very relatable in that regard.

401
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 2: If he hits a bad shot, he'll just be like, oh,

402
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: that's the worst shot I've ever seen in my life.

403
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: There's something that's, uh that just draws you to someone

404
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 2: like that.

405
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well he's just very very funny, like a guy that

407
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Speaker 2: you would probably like sit down and get like a

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Speaker 2: beer with.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to pick three. Scotti Scheffler doesn't count

410
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Speaker 1: because I feel like he's everybody loves Scotti Scheffler. He's

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Speaker 1: not even annoying that he wins everything. You want him

412
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Speaker 1: to keep winning because he's just like a good guy.

413
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Speaker 1: And like when he cried at the Olympics when he won,

414
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Speaker 1: I was so sweet. Again, seems like a person you

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Speaker 1: would want to hang out with, that you would like

416
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Speaker 1: enjoy being with, that would just like be a good

417
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Speaker 1: member of your crew. I am a fan of Wyndham

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Speaker 1: Clark and that is because on his episode of Full Swing,

419
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Speaker 1: he brought on his sports psychologists and talked about how

420
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: that was a big part of his therapy. Was a

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Speaker 1: big part of it, wasn't he like doing not so great?

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, he had a he had a rough

423
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: start to his career, and he's very much like a

424
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Speaker 2: self deprecating but like to a fault, Like.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like that's a theme in golf.

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Speaker 2: No, but like to to where it was it was

427
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 2: very much detrimental to him because he's just so hard

428
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Speaker 2: on himself.

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Speaker 1: And then my other favorites would be Tony Finow because

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Speaker 1: he's just a good guy and doesn't he have that

431
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: foundation where he helps kids get involved in golf that

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Speaker 1: otherwise I couldn't afford?

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Speaker 2: It?

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Speaker 1: Is that what he does?

435
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's that's He's always been like

436
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: very much into the like youth game, like doing a

437
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: lot of clinics and stuff like that. A lot of

438
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 2: stuff he does in his home state of Utah.

439
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: So and then my other favorite would be Matt Fitzpatrick. Yeah,

440
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: and that episode of Full Swing. If you guys are

441
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: gonna can you watch them out of order? And it

442
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't matter, right, wouldn't matter.

443
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd say there's some parts that get like

444
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: you might know who wins the tournament if you looked

445
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: at one later, but it's not. I would say, it

446
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: doesn't ruin it by any means.

447
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good episode to start with in the

448
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: first season. It was the sweetest thing I've ever seen.

449
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: And he is an episode in the second one with

450
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: his brother right, yep, okay, I cried during it. There's

451
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: a lot of really humble people that play golf. They

452
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: and I think maybe that's part of it. It's like

453
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: to be that good at something that that it's that

454
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: hard and they make it look so easy.

455
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: Incredibly humbling game. It'll bring you down real quick.

456
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: Players are so humble yet incredible at this game that

457
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: is near impossible to play, and they make it look

458
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: very easy. And then there's also the opposite, some very

459
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: arrogant people, and so you see both sides of that.

460
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: And depending on the type of player you like, there's

461
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: an episode of full swing for you. But there's also

462
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: somebody to watch for and somebody you can relate to.

463
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's fair.

464
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: I could talk about just the individual players all day long,

465
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: but I want to to wrap this up. What in

466
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: your opinion does golf give you or offer you? What

467
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: in your opinion does golf give you or offer you?

468
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: The number one thing, especially at this time in my life,

469
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: you know, always becomes increasingly difficult to find time to

470
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: do things with friends and stuff like that, and and

471
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: golf has always just been a big thing that kind

472
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: of like a camaraderie builder amongst my friend group. You know,

473
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: I would say just about every single one of us

474
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: plays golf, and you know, tries to find a reason

475
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: to get together and and golf is usually one of

476
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: those those activities. So I would say camaraderie first and foremost.

477
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: If I had to say something else, I mean, I

478
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: would say that that golf helps in my having determination

479
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: on something like like having a goal and trying to

480
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: overcome it with with obstacles in your way. So I

481
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 2: always like look at golf in that regard is like

482
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: it always.

483
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: Teaches you to stay with something, not give up, yeah, and.

484
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 2: Not give up yeah, keep going because there's gonna be

485
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: hard times and there you know, and then there's gonna

486
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: be something triumphs as well.

487
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: So well, you said a long time ago that nobody

488
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: is good at golf. We are all just different levels

489
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: of bad.

490
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: Yep.

491
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: And I think there's something to the fact that men

492
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: are obsessed with the game that is almost impossible to

493
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: have become good at. I mean, the people that are

494
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: good at golf are few and far between, no matter

495
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: how much you play. And there's something to the fact

496
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: that men enjoy a game that is that difficult.

497
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,239
Speaker 2: I think maybe stereotypically, men love a good challenge, like

498
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: being competitive. I feel like there's something that were we

499
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: grow up with, whether it's you know, playing a dumb

500
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: game with your friends or something like that, or you know,

501
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 2: golf has always been something that kind of brings out

502
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: that competitive edge.

503
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: And to like conquer the impossible versus like, if something

504
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: that seems impossible me, I'm like, Okay, I don't really

505
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: care that much. I'm gonna move on, which is why

506
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: I usually stop playing at the sixth hole when we're

507
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: only playing nine holes. Although we did play yesterday and

508
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: I did all nine holes. I didn't keep score, but

509
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: I did them versus men. From my experience, this is

510
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: not a blanket statement, but they're more likely to finish

511
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: the whole thing, keep every score, continuing to go out

512
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: there over and over and over until they get the

513
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: thing that they want, which could be your whole entire life.

514
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: So to sum up where I'm coming from, I think

515
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: golf becomes an obsession in the minds of many men

516
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: and women. I don't want to totally leave them out

517
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons, one of them being getting

518
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: in staying in the successful pack. You want to be

519
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: in the group that offers you the best survival rates,

520
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: whether that was a group of hunters thousands of years

521
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: ago or the cool kids on the playground when you're

522
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: growing up, and when it comes to competition evolutionary wise,

523
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: depending on how you look at it, I think the

524
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: rewards of winning or being ahead have been somewhat higher

525
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: for men. Now do I think that some people just

526
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: love the game short And I think that this idea

527
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: of golf, what I'm talking about, This can be a

528
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: very simple answer, and it can be complex, and we

529
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: can take this conversation as deep as you want it,

530
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: or we can leave it as service level as you want.

531
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm kind of meeting you in the middle of that.

532
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: But what I really do think is interesting to look

533
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: at as a whole in this conversation is the rebrand

534
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: that golf has had in the last tenish years and

535
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: how you can watch it go from this old gentleman's

536
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: game that was largely exclusive to a booming sport that

537
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: in many ways is working towards inclusivity. And I love

538
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: the idea of something becoming more inclusive to grow versus

539
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: something being popular or important because it is exclusive and

540
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: because it is something that not everybody is allowed to

541
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: or feels comfortable being a part of the fact that

542
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: something is becoming more cool and desirable the more and

543
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: more people are able to participate in it versus less,

544
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: and the more and more people that want to participate

545
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: it versus less. That I feel like is a nod

546
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: to golf on that So go job golf. So the

547
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: next time your partner leaves you to go play a

548
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: four hour game with his friends and you maybe want

549
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: to roll your eyes because that just sounds like the

550
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: most boring thing you can think of. Maybe you can

551
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: think about how they are just trying to be part

552
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: of something that allows them to both feel challenged mentally

553
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: and emotionally and simply included, and I'm going to leave.

554
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: It at that.

555
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: If you guys have any thoughts, questions, feedback stories about

556
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: your own experience, and they can be funny, they can

557
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: be serious. All of that when it comes to why

558
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: people are all of a sudden becoming obsessed with this

559
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: sport where it feels that way, you can send those

560
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. You

561
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: can follow me at kat van Buren on Instagram and

562
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: at UNI Therapy Podcast, and I will be back with

563
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: you guys on Wednesday for couch Talks. Until then, I

564
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: hope you have the day you need to have. Bye,