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Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not

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Speaker 1: thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the

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Speaker 1: dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day

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Speaker 1: to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources,

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Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is US Dairy

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Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digesters to turn

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Speaker 1: the methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

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Speaker 1: to learn more.

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Speaker 2: And friends and families walking riding on passing the roads

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Speaker 2: every day. Remember they're real people with loved ones who

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Speaker 2: need them to get home safely. Protect our cyclists and

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Speaker 2: pedestrians because they're people too, go safely. California from the

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Speaker 2: California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be cool to have the power to see

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Speaker 3: invisible things, like if you had anti invisibility glasses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much of our universe around us that

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Speaker 1: we can't see things that are going on all the

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Speaker 1: time that are invisible to us. It'd be awesome to

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Speaker 1: invent some new technology to reveal that, to peel back

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Speaker 1: that layer of reality and show us all the crazy

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Speaker 1: stuff that's happening.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely love to see that.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a million dollars to invest in my startup?

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Speaker 3: I have a million dollars, but maybe not to invest

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Speaker 3: in you, Dadea.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, somebody already got to you with that idea,

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Speaker 1: didn't they. Somebody already pitched.

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Speaker 3: You Maybe maybe, but yeah, no, I like this idea

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Speaker 3: that there are invisible things out there in the universe

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Speaker 3: that are really important and are maybe determining my fate

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Speaker 3: and the fate of our planets and our solar system

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Speaker 3: and our galaxy. Hi am hoe, I'm a cartoonist and

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Speaker 3: the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. I've never created

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Speaker 1: a webcomic, but I did co write a book with

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Speaker 1: a webcomic. It's called We Have No Idea, and it's

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Speaker 1: all about the unknowns in the universe.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, that sounds amazing. I would love to read that.

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Speaker 1: You should, It's fantastic.

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Speaker 3: I did actually read it a couple of times as

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Speaker 3: I helped write it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, did you read your name on the cover, for example?

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Speaker 3: But welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we zoom all around the universe and find

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Speaker 1: cool and fascinating and bizarre stuff to blow your mind.

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Speaker 1: But we don't want to explode your mind. We actually

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Speaker 1: want to take that stuff and insert it into your brain.

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Speaker 1: We want to break it down and make it accessible

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Speaker 1: and reassemble it inside your mind.

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Speaker 3: That's sorry. We wint to stuff your mind with as

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Speaker 3: much stuff as we can without exploding it.

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Speaker 1: Critical mental density. That's what we're going for in today's show.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, all the cool stuff, all the amazing stuff,

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Speaker 3: all the dark stuff in the universe.

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Speaker 1: All the invisible stuff, all the visible stuff and everything

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Speaker 1: in between.

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Speaker 3: Because there are invisible things out there in the universe,

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Speaker 3: right There are invisible forces and objects and maybe even matter.

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Speaker 1: There definitely is. There's a huge amount of stuff going

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Speaker 1: on in the universe that is not directly observable to us.

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Speaker 1: And it's only recently that we've been doun peeling back

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Speaker 1: those layers of invisibility, figuring out ways to subtly detect

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Speaker 1: what's out there that we haven't even noticed.

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Speaker 3: Right, And we also try to talk about how scientists

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Speaker 3: are trying to discover these things. They're trying to peel

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Speaker 3: back that layer and understand what's going on in the

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Speaker 3: invisible universe.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Sometimes I think about it like scientists are

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Speaker 1: out there inventing new senses, right, Like your senses are

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Speaker 1: your ways of interacting with the world. You can see,

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Speaker 1: you can smell, you can touch, all these things help

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Speaker 1: you build up a model of what's outside your body. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: scientists were like trying to create new contraptions that are

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Speaker 1: basically new senses. Things machines that can see things that

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Speaker 1: we our bodies cannot see, and they can translate what

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Speaker 1: they see into something that we can understand.

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Speaker 3: That would be cool if you can build me like

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Speaker 3: a like a radar helmet. Yeah, like a radar chip

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Speaker 3: I can implant in my brain and have like bat

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Speaker 3: like abilities or their devil like abilities exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you have a million bucks, you can put

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Speaker 1: that towards the startup I'm going to start after this

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Speaker 1: show inventing the radar helmet. That sounds like an awesome idea.

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Speaker 3: Man, you're really hunkering for some hankering for some for

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Speaker 3: a million bucks here, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we do this kind of thing a lot, right,

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Speaker 1: We extend the power of our senses, right. Think about

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Speaker 1: like what X rays are, right? X rays are these

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Speaker 1: little invisible rays. You can't see them, but we can

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Speaker 1: use them to see inside of stuff, right, to give

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Speaker 1: us to translate what we couldn't see before into what

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Speaker 1: we can see now.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, you're right, physicists did invent X ray vision.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We literally have literally literally right, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And we do this kind of thing all the time.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's basically what experimental physics is. It's like

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Speaker 1: try to develop a new technology that can discover things

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Speaker 1: that nobody's seen before. Like you know, we've talked on

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Speaker 1: this podcast before about neutrinos. Neutrinos are these weird little

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Speaker 1: particles that are everywhere and they're you know, part of

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Speaker 1: the table of matter as we understand them. But they're very,

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Speaker 1: very hard to see because they mostly just fly through stuff.

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Speaker 1: But physicists figured out a way to spot them. It

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Speaker 1: takes billions of neutrinos to fly through your detector before

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Speaker 1: you see one, but we can see them in that way.

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Speaker 1: We discovered that they're there, that the air is full

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Speaker 1: of them.

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Speaker 3: And so today we're going to talk about what scientists

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Speaker 3: are doing to see to actually maybe even touch a

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Speaker 3: very important part of the universe, a very big part

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Speaker 3: of the universe, maybe even the biggest part of the

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Speaker 3: universe that's invisible to us.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It makes up most of the matter at

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Speaker 1: the universe, like eighty percent of the stuff in the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's literally the biggest mystery in the universe.

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Speaker 3: And so today on the program, we'll be talking about

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Speaker 3: how can we see dark matter, how can we interact

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Speaker 3: with it, how can we finally sort of seed up

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Speaker 3: close touch it maybe to understand what it is, because

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Speaker 3: right now we have no idea what it is, right, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We know that it's there, We know that

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Speaker 1: it's stuff. We know it's some kind of matter because

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Speaker 1: it creates gravity, but we don't know what it's made

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Speaker 1: out of. We don't know if it's made out of particles,

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Speaker 1: made out one particle, two particle, seventeen particles, something else

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Speaker 1: that's not a particle. You know, we only have very

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Speaker 1: indirect evidence, very solid, but indirect evidence. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: like you're solving a murder mystery and you have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of circumstantial evidence. You know that Joe Schmoe is

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Speaker 1: the guilty party, but you don't have that smoking gun,

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Speaker 1: you don't have the bloody knife or something. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to rest until you really find all the details

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Speaker 1: that really conclusively demonstrate to you what happened on that

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Speaker 1: fateful night. And that's sort of the situation in the

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Speaker 1: case of dark matter.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it could turn out to be that it

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Speaker 3: was a physicist in the cloakroom with the wrench, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's what dark matter could be. It could

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Speaker 3: be unicorns, it could be.

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Speaker 1: It could have been the engineer in the library right

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Speaker 1: with the bag of dark matter.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Try trying to make things work.

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Speaker 1: Engineers always have altruistic motives in your mind, right, whereas

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Speaker 1: scientists are out there like trying to take over the world. Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I like to think engineers actually know

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Speaker 3: what they're doing and they're not toying with things they

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Speaker 3: don't understand. I'm not trying to create black holes here

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Speaker 3: on earth, you know.

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Speaker 1: Hey, hey, there's nothing wrong with trying to create black

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Speaker 1: holes on here on Earth. They're tiny, little, cute, very

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Speaker 1: safe black holes. Okay, right right, ped black holes, cozy

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Speaker 1: little black holes, and we got to rebrand them. You know,

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Speaker 1: they sound so dangerous, you know, unicorn, black hole.

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Speaker 3: Black hole?

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Speaker 1: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: Do you feel like they have a PR problem?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, black holes have a PR problem exactly. And

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Speaker 1: for those of you hearing that we are trying to

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Speaker 1: create black holes at the Large Adrian Collider and worrying

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Speaker 1: about it, we have a whole episode dedicated to that,

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Speaker 1: you are in no danger whatsoever. Wait.

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Speaker 3: I just thought of a really nerdy joke. Mm hmmm,

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Speaker 3: Actually black holes have an EPR problems.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty nerdy joke, I agree, Impress.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: When you have to laugh at your own joke and

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Speaker 1: then rib the other person into into acknowledging it. Then

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Speaker 1: that's how you know it was a good joke.

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Speaker 3: Those are the best jokes.

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Speaker 1: Those are the dad jokes. Right, you just made a

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Speaker 1: combination scientist dad joke. It's a whole new subgenre of humor.

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Speaker 3: A dad scientist joke. Well you, fortunately, you are as

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Speaker 3: bad scientist, so that right to hit you right in

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Speaker 3: the center.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I am your demographic.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's that's all. Who's listening to this podcast?

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Speaker 1: Right? That's right. Hey, give me a million bucks and

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Speaker 1: I'll do a startup company with dad scientist jokes.

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Speaker 3: All right, but only if you pay your podcast partner

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Speaker 3: all of the million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Done and done. All right, we did some business today,

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, dark matter, we don't know what it is,

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Speaker 3: and so today we're going to talk a little bit

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Speaker 3: about how we might be able to see it and

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Speaker 3: what scientists are doing to actually see what dark matter is.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and to tease it a little bit. There

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Speaker 1: are three ways that we're looking for dark matter. You

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Speaker 1: can either shake it, break it, or make it. That's

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Speaker 1: also a recipe for cooking a delicious dark matter soufle.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's an infomercial all now, and you'll

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Speaker 3: receive our special offer for shake it, break it, and

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Speaker 3: make it.

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Speaker 1: And that clever line about shake it, make it or

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Speaker 1: break it is not something that I came up with.

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Speaker 1: I think the first person to say that was Jonathan Fang.

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Speaker 1: He's a dark matter expert at You See Irvine.

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Speaker 3: All right, well let's see how we can shake, break,

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Speaker 3: or make dark matter. But first we were wondering how

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Speaker 3: many people out there think that we could ever see

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Speaker 3: dark matter? Or if we can see dark matter.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So I walked around the campus of You

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Speaker 1: See Irvine and asked folks, hey, do you think we

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Speaker 1: could ever see dark matter? And I didn't explain to

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Speaker 1: them what dark matter was or give them much background

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Speaker 1: and just pop this question on them.

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Speaker 3: And so think about it for a second. If somebody

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Speaker 3: asks you randomly on the street, like, hey, do you

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Speaker 3: think we can ever see dark matter? Think about for

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Speaker 3: a second how would you answer this question?

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Speaker 1: And would you give that guy a million bucks for

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Speaker 1: his dark matter startup? No?

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Speaker 3: Well, anyways, here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of dark matter? Yes, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is? Okay, do you have any idea

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Speaker 1: how much see dark matter? Like I would be discovered?

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Speaker 1: It's like energy electrons. Maybe, I'm not really sure. All right,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much. Have you heard of dark matter? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how we could see or

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Speaker 1: discover dark matter?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: Because isn't it just a theory?

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of dark matter? Yes? Do you know

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Speaker 1: how how might be see dark matter?

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Speaker 4: I don't know dark I've heard of it, but I

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Speaker 4: can't confidently say what it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you know if it's something we could ever see?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: Can we see or detect dark matter?

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Speaker 3: Monday?

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Speaker 1: Probably?

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm not sure now, but I'm confident that

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Speaker 2: one day we'll all find out what it is and

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Speaker 2: discover many many things.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I've heard of the term. I'm not exactly sure.

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Speaker 4: I know it's related to like physics in the space.

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Speaker 1: Do you know if dark matter is something we can

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Speaker 1: ever see? I could we ever be able to see

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Speaker 1: it or detect it?

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Speaker 4: The name implies that we can't. I'm sure there are

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Speaker 4: methods too, I mean through like radiation, probably can detect

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Speaker 4: if it's there, but I don't know if we can

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Speaker 4: visibly see.

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Speaker 3: All Right, a little bit of optimism. Some people had

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Speaker 3: never heard of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some people were a little skeptical. I like the well,

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Speaker 1: it's just a theory. I could have gotten into a

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Speaker 1: whole discussion there about what is a scientific theory, evolution

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Speaker 1: is a theory, what is theory mean? But I just

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Speaker 1: sort of nodded and moved on.

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Speaker 3: There was one interesting answer here that said that the

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Speaker 3: answer is no because the name of it implies that

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Speaker 3: we can't see it. That's kind of a pretty metaphysical answer, right, like,

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Speaker 3: if we can't see it one day, do we need

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Speaker 3: to change the name of it?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I see, Well, I think that's a little bit

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Speaker 1: more thought than this person I had given it. I

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Speaker 1: think they were not sure what dark matter was and

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Speaker 1: just sort of sort of grasping for clues about how

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Speaker 1: to answer this question based on the limited information in

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Speaker 1: the question, and I think that's where they were going.

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Speaker 1: But I like that idea that if we see dark matter,

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Speaker 1: we can't call it dark anymore. We have to rename it.

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Speaker 1: And it probably you're angling to be on that committee

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Speaker 1: to rename it, because I know you have opinions about

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Speaker 1: how physicists have named things.

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Speaker 3: It's not that I'm angling. I just feel like anyone

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Speaker 3: could do a better job.

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Speaker 1: Put that on your application to be on the committee. Man,

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Speaker 1: you guys are terrible. Anybody could do a better job

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Speaker 1: than you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, they should put kids in charge of

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Speaker 3: naming things.

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Speaker 1: You know, then we'd be called squishy rainbow matter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. It would make a lot more sense.

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Speaker 1: It'd be harder to write grand proposals saying please give

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Speaker 1: us money to see squishy rainbow.

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Speaker 3: Particles, right, unless it's also children reviewing the proposals.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I think it is children reviewing the proposals based

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Speaker 1: on the referee reports.

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Speaker 3: So Daniell remind us what dark matter is.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we don't know what dark matter is, but

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Speaker 1: we know that there's something out there. We know that

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Speaker 1: there's a bunch more stuff in the universe than we

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Speaker 1: can see. And we know this in a few ways,

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Speaker 1: but all of them just use gravity. Gravity is our

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Speaker 1: clue that tells us that there's something else out there

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Speaker 1: that has mass, because remember mass is what creates gravity,

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Speaker 1: a mass and energy, And we have a few clues,

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Speaker 1: Like we looked at galaxies and we see that galaxies

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Speaker 1: are spinning really really fast, and there doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be enough gravity inside those galaxies just from the stuff

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Speaker 1: we can see, the stars and the dust and stuff

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Speaker 1: to hold those galaxies together. So based on how fast

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Speaker 1: they're spinning, the galaxies should be tearing themselves apart, the

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Speaker 1: stars should be thrown off into interstellar space, but they're not.

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Speaker 1: So people suggested this idea, maybe there's some invisible matter

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Speaker 1: in there that's creating this gravity to hold the galaxies together.

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Speaker 1: And that's the key. It's invisible. We can't see it,

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Speaker 1: hence the name dark, but it creates the missing gravity

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Speaker 1: we need to explain how these galaxies are spinning. So

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Speaker 1: they called it matter because it gives gravit.

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Speaker 3: So it's like we we can feel it, but we

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Speaker 3: just can't see it. Like we can see it affecting

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Speaker 3: the orbits of things around it, and we can see

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Speaker 3: it affecting how light moves around it and through it,

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Speaker 3: but we can't actually see something there or detect something

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Speaker 3: there through light.

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Speaker 1: That's right, we can't use light to detect it because

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to interact with light at all. It's invisible,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way like the air is. You can

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Speaker 1: tell the air is there because it pushes against you,

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Speaker 1: but you can't see it right. You'd love to be

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Speaker 1: able to see the air. Imagine you had like glasses

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Speaker 1: that you could see different air currents and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: The world would look like a crazy place. But we

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Speaker 1: can see it only through gravity. We can tell that

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Speaker 1: it's there through gravity, and the reason that's the problem. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we can feel its pull. And you might think, isn't

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Speaker 1: that enough, Like I mean, you're getting greedy, Like you

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Speaker 1: can already tell that dark matter is there, why do

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Speaker 1: you need to see it? The thing is that gravity

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Speaker 1: is really really weak. It's the weakest force by huge amount,

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Speaker 1: by you know, millions and millions and millions, and so

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Speaker 1: we can I can only use gravity to see dark

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Speaker 1: matter when there's a huge amount of it, like galaxy

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Speaker 1: sized blobs of it. So that tells us that it's there,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't really tell us what's going on where

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Speaker 1: the dark matter is, to see any detail in it,

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Speaker 1: to see if it isn't made out of particles or

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Speaker 1: is it made out of something else really weird. It's like,

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Speaker 1: it's enough to know that it's there and roughly where

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Speaker 1: it is, but nothing else about it, And that's tantalizing.

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Speaker 1: You know because we want to know what this is

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Speaker 1: made out of and how it works and does it

348
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: interact and is there complicated stuff going on? But we can't. Right,

349
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Speaker 1: we're blind because gravity is so.

350
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Speaker 3: Weak, right, and so it doesn't reflect light, Like if

351
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 3: I shine a light into it, the light is just

352
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 3: going to go through and it doesn't emit any light. Like,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't glow or it doesn't give off its own

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Speaker 3: energy that we can see. And so that's what makes

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Speaker 3: it invisible.

356
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Speaker 1: That's right. Stars give off lights, we can see them.

357
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Speaker 1: Planets reflect lights, so we can see them. Dark matter

358
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Speaker 1: doesn't either. It doesn't glow and it doesn't reflect light. Yeah,

359
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: it's totally invisible to loast, it's like a ghost. It ghosts, yeah, exactly.

360
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 3: I like how sometimes you say that it should have

361
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Speaker 3: just been called invisible matter, not dark matter.

362
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Speaker 6: Yeah.

363
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Speaker 1: I think probably there was a meeting somewhere somebody said

364
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Speaker 1: let's call it invisible matter, and no, dark matter sounds cooler,

365
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 1: and I think dark matter does sound cooler. Honestly, dark

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Speaker 1: implies something mysterious, right, something maybe a little sinister. One

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Speaker 1: of my favorite questions I get when we give public

368
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Speaker 1: lectures is somebody invariably asks, is dark matter like bad matter?

369
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Speaker 1: Like is it dangerous? You know, because it's an error

370
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Speaker 1: of like you know, sinister in this or what's the

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00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: word cynicism? Sinisterism?

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Speaker 4: You do?

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Speaker 3: You just call it evil matter? Well, I mean who

374
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Speaker 3: wouldn't fund that project?

375
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like the dark side of the forest, right,

376
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Speaker 1: you know, it's just like probably the dark side of matter.

377
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Speaker 1: There you go, there's my million bucks.

378
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Speaker 3: Yeah boom, just like, hey, there's evil matter out there.

379
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Speaker 3: We need to track it down.

380
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Speaker 1: That's something the current administration would probably go for.

381
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, So that's what that's what dark

382
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 3: matter is. It's some stuff out there in the universe.

383
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Speaker 3: There's a lot of it. There's a there's like five

384
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Speaker 3: times more of it than regular matter. But we can't

385
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Speaker 3: see it through light or touch it because how we

386
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Speaker 3: touch things is through electromagnetic forces.

387
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Speaker 1: Right, that's right. If you want to push on the

388
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Speaker 1: wall that's next to you, for example, why doesn't your

389
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 1: hand go through the wall. It's because your hand is

390
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of molecules, and those molecules are tied together

391
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 1: with chemical bonds, which are mostly bonds from electrons, and

392
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Speaker 1: so that uses electromagnetism. So your hand is like a

393
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 1: it's like a chain link fence, and the walls like

394
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Speaker 1: a chain link fence, and those links press against each other.

395
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Speaker 1: So electromagnetism is a dominant force and how you see

396
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,199
Speaker 1: things and how you feel things, and dark matter just

397
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Speaker 1: doesn't feel it at all.

398
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Speaker 3: So it seems kind of unlikely that we'll ever be

399
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Speaker 3: able to touch it or see it or know what

400
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 3: it is with any kind of resolution. And so let's

401
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 3: get into this idea of shaking it, breaking it, and

402
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 3: making it. But first let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Daniel, So dark matter with doesn't give off light

453
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: or reflect light or doesn't even care about light. It

454
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: just like just goes through it or magnets.

455
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: Hey, you don't know that. Maybe it's like feeling left out.

456
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, is this light part of the universe

457
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: and all this fun stuff is happening and we're stuck

458
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 1: over here in a dark corner.

459
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 3: Maybe we should call it sad matter then.

460
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: Depressed matter exactly.

461
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, so, but you know, in generally you can't

462
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 3: touch it with light, you can't touch up with a magnet,

463
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 3: you can't touch it with your finger. But we know

464
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 3: it's there because we feel it's gravitational pull. So you're

465
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 3: saying that that that gravitational pool is not enough to

466
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,239
Speaker 3: really study it, to really kind of kind of like

467
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 3: run it through your fingers and study what it is

468
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: and what it's made out of.

469
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: That's right. The goal is to get a finer grain

470
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: sense of where it is, like where on Earth is

471
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: the dark matter? Is it just a big diffuse blob.

472
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: Is it clumped up somewhere? Is it all gathered in

473
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: the sun. You know, we'd like to be able to

474
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: see it much more in a much finer grain resolution,

475
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: which requires interacting with it more powerfully than gravity can do.

476
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: That's one thing. And the other thing is we'd like

477
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: to know what it's made out of, right, Like, is

478
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: it made out of particles? Is it made out of

479
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: multiple particles or something else totally different, And that definitely

480
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 1: requires seeing it more up close and interacting with it,

481
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: and so current the only thing we can do is gravity.

482
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: And you know, let's start off pessimistically. It might be

483
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: that dark matter only feels gravity and that's the only

484
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: force it ever will feel, and that seeing it or

485
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: touching it or whatever is totally hopeless. We have no

486
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 1: concrete evidence that it has to feel another force. We

487
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: have some indirect clues from the way things happened in

488
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: the early universe, but nothing really solid.

489
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 3: Well here's a question though, then, I mean, we know

490
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: that dark matter doesn't feel light or electromagnetic forces, and

491
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: we know it doesn't feel weak forces or strong forces.

492
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 3: I know it's because I listen to our podcast episode

493
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: about dark matter. But how do we know it doesn't

494
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 3: feel Maybe some other forces, some other here to undiscovered

495
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 3: forces in the universe.

496
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: Yes, in fact, we are hoping that it does. Right,

497
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: We are resting the entire this entire field of searching

498
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: for dark matter rests on the hope that there is

499
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: some new kind of force, some way that dark matter

500
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: interacts with itself and with our kind of matter. So

501
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: if it only interacts with via gravity, then we're kind

502
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: of sunk. All we can never do is do observational

503
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 1: astronomy and see galaxy sized blobs. But if there is

504
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: some new force we haven't discovered yet, then maybe it

505
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: can mediate the interactions between normal particles like electrons and

506
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: quarks and these dark matter particles. So that would be

507
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: awesome because you could make two discoveries at once. You

508
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: discover some new force which is huge, and you discover

509
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: that that new force interacts with dark matter particles. So

510
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: you discover a new force and a new particle and

511
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 1: the same day, like two discoveries for the price of one.

512
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 3: Is that possible though? Is it possible that there is

513
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: another force that we haven't noticed?

514
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely, absolutely, it's possible. Yeah. I mean we've only

515
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: studied a tiny fraction of the universe and the interactions

516
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: between those particles, so it's certainly possible that there are

517
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: other kinds of interactions that we haven't noticed because the

518
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: particles we're familiar with don't interact that way.

519
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: Oh, I see, But so then we wouldn't be able

520
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: to measure.

521
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: This force then exactly so. But it could also be

522
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: that this force is just very very weak, that it's

523
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: not very powerful, and so it's hard to detect. But

524
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: if you have enough clever physicists, they can build the

525
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: device to suss it out and to notice those tiny

526
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: little hints that give us the clues that it's there,

527
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: just like we found neutrinos. Neutrinos are very very difficult

528
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: to interact with. They only feel the weak nuclear force,

529
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: but we were able to build detectors that can spot them,

530
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: so we know that they are there. In the same way,

531
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: if there's another force that dark matter feels, where we're

532
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: going to talk about in a minute, are all the

533
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: ways that we're trying to reveal dark matters interaction with

534
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: normal matter through that new force.

535
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: But if it only feels gravity, don't we have some

536
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 3: amazing gravitational wave detectors, now, couldn't that maybe help us?

537
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: We do have amazing gravitational wave detectors, but as far

538
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: as I understand, they don't give us much insight into

539
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: where the dark matter is because gravitational waves come from

540
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: like huge accelerating masses like black holes and neutron stars

541
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: circling each other and eating each other. Dark matter, as

542
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: far as we know, doesn't do that, and so it

543
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: doesn't create gravitational waves as far as I know. But

544
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, there could be black holes made of dark matter.

545
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: I guess that are doing that, but it wouldn't necessarily

546
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: give us insight into the dark matter itself.

547
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: Wow, the way would those be dark black holes or

548
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: black dark holes?

549
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that's your responsibility, since you're being nominated

550
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: to the Physics naming committee, but I'm pretty sure that

551
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: every black hole has to have some dark matter in it,

552
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: because remember, eighty percent of the matter in the universe

553
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: is dark matter. So if you're a black hole, you're

554
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: just indiscriminately sucking up matter, and you're definitely gonna hoover

555
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: up some dark matter.

556
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: So it seems like a pretty hard problem. And so

557
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: break it down for us, Daniel, what are some of

558
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: the different options for studying dark matter?

559
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: All right? So number one is shake it. The idea

560
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: here is, let's build a really big tank of very

561
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: quiet liquid. By quiet, we mean liquid that doesn't interact

562
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: very much, mostly just sits there. And we put this

563
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: tank really far underground so the cosmic rays and other

564
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: particles from space don't interact with it very much, and

565
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: then you just wait. You wait for one of those

566
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: particles to shake. The idea is that maybe a dark

567
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: matter particle, which should have no trouble penetrating through the

568
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: ground and getting all the way underground into your vat

569
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: of liquid, will bump using this new force, will bump

570
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: into one of these molecules and shake it a little bit,

571
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: and when you spot that, you can say, ah, maybe

572
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: that was dark matter.

573
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 3: Oh, I see, so you're not shaking dark matter, you're

574
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: just waiting for dark matter to shake something else.

575
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: That's right. We're hoping that dark matter flies down and

576
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: then occasionally bumps into one of these it's usually liquid

577
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: xenon atoms, and then we can see that atom shaking,

578
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: so we know that that's where the force comes in.

579
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: Gravity isn't enough for that to happen. But if dark

580
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: matter has this new force, it could give a little

581
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: bump to one of these xenon atoms, and by seeing

582
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: them get bumped, then we could deduce that maybe it's

583
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: dark matter.

584
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: So the theory is that maybe dark matter does feel

585
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: more than just gravity, Like maybe it feels us some

586
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: kind of other force, but it's so weak that you

587
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: really would have to isolate everything else just to maybe

588
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: every once in a while feel that force from dark matter.

589
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: It's like you're listening for the tiniest little whisper. Right,

590
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that in a crowded stadium

591
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: or in a bar. You want to go to a

592
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: place where there's nothing going on, so you can really

593
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: crank up the gain on your microphone and listen for

594
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: that little whisper. So we go deep, deep underground to

595
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: look for these little particle whispers because they're probably drowned out.

596
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if dark matter is around, then it may

597
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: be interacting with us all the time, right, giving little shakes,

598
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: but you can't tell because there's particles everywhere giving shakes.

599
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: But deep down underground, most of those particles are filtered out.

600
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: And you put a really quiet liquid there, and then

601
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: you hope that dark matter hits it, and you know

602
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: you might be thinking, well, how can you tell it

603
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: was dark matter not something else? Right, Well, they've come

604
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: up with really clever ways to just thing wish between

605
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: dark matter hitting it and like a gamma ray hitting

606
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: it or nuclear radioactive decay hitting it, because dark matter

607
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: is probably heavier than like electrons and we've caused different

608
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: kind of recoil than a gamma ray. So they have

609
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: all these really clever details about ways to see it,

610
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: and that make it more likely to tell if it's

611
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: dark matter or not. But you can never be for sure.

612
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: You can never be one hundred percent sure that one

613
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: of these wiggles is exactly dark matter.

614
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's pretty good. Is that an actual like

615
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: physics position, like particle whisper?

616
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: But it should be. It should be again, when you're

617
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: on the naming committee, you can rename these titles anything

618
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: you like. You know, throw out professor and come in

619
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: with particle whisper. But the key is the key is

620
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: that I don't think anybody would really conclusively accept the

621
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: discovery of dark matter just from that kind of experiment.

622
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: And that's why we have three prongs of this search.

623
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: We have shake it, break it, and make it, because

624
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: if dark matter does exist and it does feel this

625
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: new force, we would expect to see it in all

626
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: three prongs, and that would really be more conclusive.

627
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: Why don't you think people would not believe it.

628
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: It's a hard experiment to do, and the kind of

629
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: thing signal we're looking for is like one or two

630
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: shakes over a year of running. And then you have

631
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: to really have a lot of confidence that these folks

632
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: know what other kind of things might shake those molecules

633
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: at the same level that they've really done everything carefully.

634
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's not as like direct as you'd like.

635
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: You'd like to like hold the dark matter particle and

636
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: say here it is, everybody, come and look at it.

637
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: We found it, right, But instead you're you're noticing it

638
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: bumps somebody, and that's still a bit indirect. I mean,

639
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: it's more direct than gravity because you're talking about the

640
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: interaction with a particle, but you're not left with it.

641
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: You haven't created it or been able to study it. Well.

642
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: I remember our conversation about the sky being blue, that

643
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, things have to be kind of around the

644
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: same size or the same frequency for them to interact.

645
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: Is it possible that maybe dark matter is just like

646
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: at a different frequency or way.

647
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: It certainly is possible, right, It's possible that dark matter

648
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: feels forces and those forces don't interact with our matter

649
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: at all. Right, it's certainly possible. And these detectors are

650
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: sensitive to dark matter of certain masses right usually between

651
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: like a few giga electron volts and one hundred giga

652
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: electron volts, And they're sensitive to those masses because those

653
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: are the masses that are going to make the particles

654
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: shake the way they're expecting. If the masses are much

655
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: much smaller or much much heavier, then the shake is

656
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: going to be different and they might not spot it.

657
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, these have windows where they can see it.

658
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: And again that's why we have different approaches, so we

659
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: can try to cover all the blind spots.

660
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's option number one in our infomercial offering

661
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 3: is listening to dark matter whispers. Listening to dark whispers,

662
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 3: that's right, and see if it maybe bumps a particle

663
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: in a really, really really quiet environment. But that one

664
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: is a little suspicious because it's so hard. But you're

665
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: saying there's a second option, which is to break it,

666
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 3: break dark matter.

667
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: That's right. If you imagine is the interaction we talked

668
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: about a moment ago shaking it. That's one dark matter

669
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: particle comes in and a normal matter particle comes in

670
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: like xenon, and then both those come out, Xenon comes

671
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: out and dark matter comes out. You can sort of rotate

672
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: that ninety degrees in your head and say, well, if

673
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: that can happen, then maybe it's possible for two dark

674
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: matter particles to bump into each other, annihilate using the

675
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: same force, and turn into normal matter particles quarks for example,

676
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: which is what makes up xenon. And so it's the

677
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: same interaction, right, it's dark matter interacting with quarks, but

678
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: instead of dark matter bouncing off of quarks, it's dark

679
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: matter annihilates itself and turns into quarks.

680
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: Oh, because dark matter, if it's in our universe, it's stuff.

681
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: And if it's stuff, then it can turn into energy,

682
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 3: which can then turn into other things.

683
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: That's right, And only if there's this particular force, this

684
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: force that can that can touch normal matter and can

685
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: touch dark matter, then dark matter can annihilate. It turns

686
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: into the particle that mediates this new force, and that

687
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: particle that mediates this new force can also touch normal matter, right,

688
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: and so we can turn into normal matter. That's the idea.

689
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 3: It would have to be a new kind of force,

690
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: or it could like the weak force or one of

691
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: these forces.

692
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: Do that we thought for a while a weak force

693
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: might be able to do that. Maybe dark matter felt

694
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: the weak force like Neutrino's. But we've pretty much ruled

695
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: that out because if that had happened, we would have

696
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: seen it already. Our detectors are powerful enough to see

697
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: dark matter interacting via the weak force, and it hasn't,

698
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: so it'd have to be a new force.

699
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: But you're saying, but we don't really know what dark

700
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: matter is, So how can we be so confident that

701
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: we haven't seen it this way?

702
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: We don't know what dark matter is, and so we

703
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: are not confident and basically anything but all we can

704
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: do is what we can do, and we can say, well,

705
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: what if dark matter is a particle, and what if

706
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: it interacts with normal matter? What would that look like? Okay,

707
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: let's go look for that, and if we find it, awesome.

708
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: If we don't find it, then there's a lot of

709
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: things that we might wonder about, like, well, maybe it's

710
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: not a particle, or maybe it doesn't interact with via

711
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: this new force, or maybe we built this thing wrong. Right,

712
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: So negative results are less powerful than positive results, for sure,

713
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: But you can only do what you can do, right,

714
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: and in science, we do this a lot. We say,

715
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: we don't know how to solve this problem. Let's start

716
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: simple and see if that works.

717
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: It's imagine it's a unicorn and see if we see

718
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: any rainbows.

719
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: That's right. And so you might be wondering, like, well,

720
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: how do you make dark matter collide into other dark matter?

721
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: And the way you do it is that you just

722
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: look for places where there's a lot of dark matter.

723
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: And we think that dark matter is clumped at the

724
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: center of the galaxy, like close to that black hole

725
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: that's the biggest blob of dark matter. So what we

726
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: do is we point our space telescopes at the center

727
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: of the galaxy and we wait and we hope to

728
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: see like a flash of light from the center of

729
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: the galaxy that's of a particular energy that would tell

730
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: us that dark matter collided and created normal matter. It's

731
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: a really hard thing to do.

732
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like a really wishful thinking, or you know,

733
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 3: like you're reaching a little bit.

734
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: It is, but you know, there was a moment when

735
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: we thought we saw a signal a few years ago.

736
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: We had the data from this telescope, and if dark

737
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: matter exists and it can do this and it happens,

738
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: then you would expect that all the particles that come

739
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: from the center of the galaxy would have a particular energy,

740
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: and that energy would tell you what the mass of

741
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: the particle was. So you'd be looking for like a

742
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: peak over a spectrum. And there was a guy in

743
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: Germany who looked at the data and he saw this

744
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: big peak in the spectrum and everybody thought, oh my gosh,

745
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: maybe he discovered dark matter. Then it turned out no.

746
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: Really, so it would happen in a big flash. That's

747
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 3: brighten us for us to see.

748
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: It's not one big flash. It's a slow accumulation of data.

749
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: It's how great you build up years and years of information.

750
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: And then maybe you see a bunch of You see

751
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: a bunch of these things all the same energy, and

752
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: that tells you that maybe there's something else going on here,

753
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: some process that's happening in the center of the galaxy

754
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: that's producing these partsarticles at all the same energy, and

755
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: that gives you clue as to what the dark matter is.

756
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: And again, on its own, not that convincing. But if

757
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: you see that and you see something in these underground detectors,

758
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: and the two are consistent you're like, oh, look, maybe

759
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: these two things are telling us the same story from

760
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: a different point of view. Then you start to build

761
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: up a credible story.

762
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 3: All right. But then now there's even a third option

763
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: to study dark matter, right.

764
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: That's right, And this is my favorite because it's the

765
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: one that I personally work on, and that's making dark matter.

766
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: I feel like, if we're going to believe that dark

767
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: matter is a paricle, we got to be able to

768
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: create it. We got to be able to like make

769
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: it in the lab and play with it and study it.

770
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: So that's what we're trying to do at the Large

771
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: hair gen Collider. You laugh, you think that's ridiculous.

772
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: Well, we just talked a little bit earlier about scientists

773
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: making things and playing with things that they don't fully understand.

774
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's how we understand them. Right, you know,

775
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: what is this thing? I don't know? Let's make a

776
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: pile of it and poke it and see what happens.

777
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: That's not a grand plan to take over the world.

778
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: It's not like here, I'm going to become the dictator

779
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: of the Earth by making dark matter. Right, dark matter

780
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: is not dangerous. It's like it's even difficulty to spot

781
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: to interact with. Right, it's not going to hurt anybody.

782
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: We just like want to create some of it so

783
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: we can see what it's like. Is that so wrong?

784
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: Well, I'll let you know if you guys destroy the earth,

785
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: I'll let you know if that was a good idea

786
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: or not.

787
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, drop me a line. Put that on my tombstone.

788
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: Was that so wrong?

789
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: On your twobstone? Inside the dark matter black hole?

790
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: Okay, that sounds good. Dark matter black holes. There's a

791
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: startup idea one million bucks please.

792
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 3: Well, this is a perfect point to take a break.

793
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,479
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

794
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

795
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

796
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are US. Dairy

797
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambition sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

798
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

799
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

800
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

801
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

802
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk cleans equipment, washes

803
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: the barn and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

804
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

805
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: the methane from maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

806
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

807
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

808
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

809
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

810
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

811
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: us dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

812
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

813
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814
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815
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. Go safely California

816
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Speaker 2: from the California Office of Traffic Safety and he trans.

817
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,200
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818
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819
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,279
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820
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821
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,919
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822
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823
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824
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825
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826
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: You're saying that another way to study dark matter is

827
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: to make it, to like create it out of nothing.

828
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: Yes, not out of nothing. So imagine think about the

829
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: process we just talked about in the Galactic Center. We're

830
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: talking about dark matter annihilating into some particle and that

831
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: particle turning into quarks. Well, if that can happen, then

832
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: the reverse can happen. That is, quarks should be able

833
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: to annihilate turn into some new force particle, and that

834
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: new force particles should be able to turn into dark matter.

835
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: So we should be able to smash quarks together and

836
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: create dark matter. And that's coincidentally exactly what we're doing

837
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: at the Large Hadron Collider. We smash quarks in the

838
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: form of bags that we call protons together at super

839
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: high speeds and try to create new kinds of matter.

840
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: But again, that assumes that you have this magical force

841
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: that helps you go between the two worlds kind of right.

842
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. We have to assume that it's it's there

843
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: to look for it, right. It's like you're saying, like, well,

844
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: you went hunting for unicorns in the forest, aren't you

845
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: assuming the unicorns exist? Well, you know we're out there

846
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: looking for them, like we'll see.

847
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Right, it is that kind of similar, right, like.

848
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sure. But you know, if you go out

849
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: looking for unicorns and you find something else crazy instead,

850
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: you still call it a success. Right, But you have

851
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: to have something to look for, and this in particular,

852
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: like you know, we believe dark matter is there. Have

853
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: all the crazy things we look for at the Large

854
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: Hadront most of them. We have no clue that exists.

855
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: Supersymmetry and large extra dimensions and all this other crazy stuff.

856
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: We have no real clue that it's even real. Dark matter,

857
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: we know is a thing. It's out there. It's part

858
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: of the universe. Man, It's like it's an important element

859
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: in the matter pie. So at the Large Hadron Collider,

860
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: when we smash particles together, we make everything that can

861
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: be made. So if dark matter exists and it can

862
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: be made, then eventually we'll make it, and we should

863
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: be able to find it in the remnants of some

864
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: of those collisions.

865
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: Right. And the interesting thing is that it's not like

866
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 3: you make it and then you hold it in your

867
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 3: hand and say, hey, see, I made it. It's more

868
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: like you made it.

869
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: That is my particular fantasy.

870
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: But you're right, well, technically you do have some dark

871
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: matter in your hand already.

872
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: Right, that's right, but you can't hold it because it

873
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: passes through you because it doesn't interact with you. But

874
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: you're right, go ahead, Well, you can't just make it

875
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: and hold it.

876
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think the idea is that you make

877
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: it and you know that you made it because some

878
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: energy disappeared and you can't account for it.

879
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: Exactly. The problem with making dark matter is that we

880
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: can't then see the dark matter. It's like, hey, look,

881
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: I here's my science for a project. I made an

882
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: invisible man. You can't touch. Where is he? I don't know.

883
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: It's not that.

884
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: Convinced, honey, but it disappeared after I made it. So

885
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: but hey, the effort is what counts, right, honey.

886
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: Here's your invisible Mother's Day present exactly. I didn't forget.

887
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: It's just invisible. It's extra impressive. That's exactly the problem.

888
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: But as you say, we can deduce the presence of

889
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: invisible things because we know some things about how these

890
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: collisions work, and in particular, we know that momentum is conserved,

891
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: meaning you have a momentum coming into the collision. All

892
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: that same momentum has to come out of the collision.

893
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: So if you add up all the stuff that you

894
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: saw come out of the collision, and we're pretty good

895
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: at capturing things, and something is missing, it doesn't add up.

896
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: Then you know something disappear at something invisible. So we

897
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: can tell when we make invisible stuff at the colliders,

898
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: and in fact we do this all the time. We

899
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: can't see neutrinos either, and all the time we do

900
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: this interaction where quarks annihilate and then they turn into

901
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: a pair of neutrinos, which just basically look invisible. So

902
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: we can do this, we've measured this, we can see

903
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: it happening. The question is is it also making dark matter?

904
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: So that's what we're doing. We're trying to tell like

905
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: is it just making neutrinos or is it making neutrinos

906
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: and dark matter?

907
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: All right, so those are the three ways in which

908
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 3: we might see dark matter again, just to recap. One

909
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 3: of them is to listen for it really, really quietly.

910
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: The other one is to try to look for places

911
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 3: where it's crashing into itself. And the other one is

912
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 3: to try to make it here on Earth.

913
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: That's right with a million dollars, that's right exactly. So

914
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: we have those three ways, and you know, we've been

915
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: doing this for a while, and at first we were

916
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: sort of just playing around with like could we even

917
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: see dark matter in the collider? Couldn't you look at

918
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: the center of the galaxy. And people spend a lot

919
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: of time refining these techniques and making them more and

920
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: more powerful. And then at the same time we have predictions.

921
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: We have like clues from the early universe that say

922
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: dark matter is definitely there, And these clues from the

923
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: early universe tell us that probably dark matter came into

924
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: equilibrium with normal matter. That means that it's like the

925
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: energy has sort of like smoothed doubt, and for that

926
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: to happen, it has to be able to interact. So

927
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: we suspect that there's some way for dark matter to

928
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: interact with normal matter, but it's very indirect clue, and

929
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: we just don't know what that is. So we're hoping

930
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: that we'll be able to see in one of these experiments,

931
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 1: and that indirect clue suggests that the experiments that we're

932
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: doing now in the next few years should be able

933
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: to see dark matter interact with interacting with normal matter

934
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: at the level necessary to explain that equilibrium. So it's

935
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: an exciting moment in the search for dark matter.

936
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: Can you explain what that equiliary means? So you're saying

937
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: that you have some sort of feeling that it does

938
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: feel a special force that we haven't discovered yet because

939
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: there's evidence that it has interacted with matter in this way.

940
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: That's right, can sort of trace back the history of

941
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: the universe and the very beginning of the universe, just

942
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: after the Big Bang. There's a bunch of matter created,

943
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: some matter, some normal matter, some dark matter, right, and

944
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: then the universe expanded and cooled. Right at some point,

945
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: the universe cools enough that certain kind of interactions can't

946
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: happen anymore. So that's what we call that freeze out

947
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: because it's not hot enough to like make certain things

948
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: happen anymore. Since the freeze out moment is less interaction

949
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: between normal matter and dark matter, we think, right, so

950
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: we think that before that they were sort of mixing

951
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: and playing along and interacting, and then the universe cooled

952
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: down and is less interaction, And we can do those calculations,

953
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: and we could say if there was interaction and things were,

954
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: you know, getting into equilibrium and bouncing off each other,

955
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: that changes how much dark matter is left in the universe.

956
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: So we call this a relic density. So the amount

957
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: of dark matter in the universe now depends on how

958
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: much it was interacting with normal matter in the early universe,

959
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: because that changes like how much is made when when

960
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: normal matter turns into dark matter, or how much disappears

961
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: when dark matter interacts with itself and turns into normal matter.

962
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: And so the amount of dark matter we see in

963
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: the universe now tells us that there was very likely

964
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: interactions in the early universe.

965
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: I think what you're saying is that you know, the

966
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 3: universe right now only makes sense from what we know

967
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: of it if there is some sort of interaction between

968
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 3: dark matter regular matter. Yes, yes, exactly, Okay, But if

969
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 3: it turns out that there isn't this special magical unicorn force,

970
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: then we're sort of toast. Right, then there's really no

971
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 3: way for us to really study dark matter.

972
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: It would be much much harder, and all we can

973
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: do in that case is lean on gravity, and we're

974
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: pressing that pretty hard. You know. We're looking at galaxies

975
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: and how they rotate, but we're also looking at gravitational lensing,

976
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: we're looking at collisions. We're doing everything we can to

977
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: try to use the gravitational information, but it's pretty limited. Yeah,

978
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: gravity is a weak forced and it doesn't capture a

979
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: lot of information. So it would be a bit of

980
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: a tragedy if dark matter doesn't feel anything but gravity,

981
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: it would make it really hard to ever discover. Is

982
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: it made of particles? Is it made of something else?

983
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: Is it made of little unicorns? You know, it would

984
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: be it would be a sad day if we discovered that.

985
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: So that that's amazing. It could be that will never

986
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: ever in the history of humanity until the end of

987
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 3: the universe know what this thing is.

988
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: You sort of sound like you're rooting for that outcome.

989
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: I'm not ready for either outcome.

990
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: Are you playing the playing on the tragic arc here?

991
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: I'm not taking size between the dark side and the

992
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 3: light side. I'm just saying that that is a distinct possibility,

993
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 3: and it's interesting to think about, isn't it to know

994
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: that maybe there are mysteries we'll never know the answer to.

995
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are mysteries we never know the answer to,

996
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: and probably the greatest mysteries we don't even know to ask, right,

997
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: We're that clueless when it comes to the nature of

998
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: the universe. This is a mystery that we've recently stumbled on,

999
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: that we discovered that these huge parts of the universe

1000
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: we don't understand. In fact, most of it the biggest

1001
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: slice of the pie. So we should even be grateful

1002
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: that we know it exists. And now we're getting greedy.

1003
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: We don't want to know everything about it, right, But

1004
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: you're right, it could be that we never know anything

1005
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: more than that it's there and that it has gravity

1006
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: and it plays a role in how things clump.

1007
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: All right.

1008
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: So that's the answer to the question can we ever

1009
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: see dark matter? And the answer is stay tuned, right,

1010
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: maybe we'll see it, maybe we won't.

1011
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: The answer is keep funding particle physics.

1012
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: The answer is send Daniel a million dollars.

1013
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: That's the answer to every question, isn't it sure? Yeah?

1014
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 3: What did you have for breakfast? What do you a

1015
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: million dollars?

1016
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I send Dannel million bucks and I'm

1017
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: still waiting for my ex Benedict. Hey, startups don't offer

1018
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 1: a quick return, okay, right?

1019
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 4: Right?

1020
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: Or breakfast?

1021
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: Right?

1022
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 1: Or breakfast? Not usually?

1023
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: All right?

1024
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for joining us. I hope you enjoyed that discussion.

1025
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 3: And next time you look out there into the universe,

1026
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: know that there you are bathing in dark matter, but

1027
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 3: that we may never or possibly soon be able to

1028
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 3: see it.

1029
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: That's right, Mysteries the Universe potentially.

1030
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 3: Revealed tomorrow on our net next podcast. Stay tuned, all right,

1031
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: see you next time.

1032
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in. If you still have a question

1033
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: after listening to all these explanations, please drop us a line.

1034
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us

1035
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's

1036
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: one word, or email us at Feedback at Danielandjorge dot com.

1037
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1038
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1039
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1040
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