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Speaker 1: Buddy Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I've been to two

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Speaker 1: locations over the course of my life where presidential assassinations

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Speaker 1: took place. I got to say I was. I was

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Speaker 1: left surprised by both. I don't know how this kind

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Speaker 1: of figure is into the calculus, if you will, are

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Speaker 1: what my expectation was. I went to Dallas and stood

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Speaker 1: just adjacent to what they term as the sniper's nest

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Speaker 1: on Dealey Plause in Texas school Book Depository. There looked

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Speaker 1: out that window and I could see the road stretching

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Speaker 1: on before me. And what really kind of stood out

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Speaker 1: to me. Having watch newsreels for years and years relative

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Speaker 1: to the Kennedy assassination, I always imagined that area was

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Speaker 1: going to be really, really big massive. It wasn't. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of condensed, if you will. I actually went down,

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Speaker 1: and when traffic wasn't approaching me, I went out and

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Speaker 1: stood on the X where they claimed that the fatal

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Speaker 1: shot was sustained. But it seemed small. However, I went

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Speaker 1: to Ford's Theater as well. Other than the building being

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Speaker 1: very very old and probably having one of the best

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Speaker 1: museums I've ever been in period. Down in the basement.

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Speaker 1: The space of Ford's Theater was so much larger than

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Speaker 1: I expected. And as I stood there and I looked,

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Speaker 1: and of course it's not necessarily configured like it was

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Speaker 1: at that time. They had to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: restorate of work and repairs and all those sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: But the approximations of where everything is, you can only

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Speaker 1: imagine that as a single shot rings out and the

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Speaker 1: sound of maybe ripping bunting as a spur is caught

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Speaker 1: in it and John Wilkes booth falls to the stage below,

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Speaker 1: it would echo in that space, everybody frozen in tom

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Speaker 1: It's hard to take the measure when great men fall.

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Speaker 1: But today we're going to talk about the assassination and

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Speaker 1: autopsy of our sixteenth President, Abraham Lincoln. I'm Josep Scotten Morgan,

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Speaker 1: and this is Bodybags. Dave Mack, my friend, senior crime

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Speaker 1: reporter with Crime Online. When I proposed this to you,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you thought that I was out

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Speaker 1: of my mind or if you thought that, Wow, this

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Speaker 1: is going to be really intriguing. I was fascinated by

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Speaker 1: the prospect. That's why I wanted to do this. I've

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Speaker 1: always been interested in exactly what was found relative to

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Speaker 1: Abe Lincoln and his mortal remains, how did they go

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Speaker 1: about assessing what had happened? And so much has been

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Speaker 1: written about Lincoln. I think that probably out of every president,

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Speaker 1: there's been more books written than any other president we've

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Speaker 1: ever had, and they still continue to be written today.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when you get down to it, he

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Speaker 1: was a man. He was a man that died at

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Speaker 1: the hand of another man, and he was felt, like

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Speaker 1: so many other people have died in our country, at

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Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle of a weapon. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to explore that. Were you kind of surprised when

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Speaker 1: I pitched this to you?

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Speaker 2: My first thought when you suggested doing it, I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I know nothing. I mean, other than the shot from

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Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth. I am totally ignorant of his death

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Speaker 2: and what took place in those hours between the time

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Speaker 2: he was shot in the time he died. I know

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Speaker 2: plenty of rumors, I guess are theories of things happened,

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Speaker 2: Because no matter what happens, when you talk about Abraham

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Speaker 2: Lincoln and the assassination, there are so many rabbit holes

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Speaker 2: to take a tour of, from conspiracy theories to know

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Speaker 2: what really happened, which, by the way, was a conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: I remember mentioning this one day on my radio show, saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, we'll talk about the conspiracy surrounding the assassination

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Speaker 2: of President Lincoln. And I had people that were mad.

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Speaker 2: They thought I was just muddying the water that you know.

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Speaker 2: I was shocked that people don't know what really happened. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So when you mentioned covering it, I thought, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is one big part of the story that most of

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Speaker 2: us don't know and cannot understand what really happened when

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Speaker 2: President Lincoln was shot in a public place at night

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Speaker 2: with an audience by an actor. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot going on in that moment. You're a scholar, you're

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Speaker 2: a forensic genius, you are all of these things. And

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest, I'm waiting to hear what really happened,

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Speaker 2: the truth of what took place medically speaking with President Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: What's shocking to me. I guess I'm taking this in

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Speaker 1: measure compared to the way we see things now. I've

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Speaker 1: been to presidential inaugurations, I've been in the presence of presidents.

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Speaker 1: I almost got te bonbed one day in downtown Atlanta

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Speaker 1: many years ago, by al Gore's detail that were blowing

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Speaker 1: red lights going to CNN and I was actually returning

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Speaker 1: from a death scene. I just worked and I was

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Speaker 1: down by CNN Center and I could hear sirens, But

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Speaker 1: I wasn't expected because in downtown Atlanta, you don't expect

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Speaker 1: to see people driving like, really really fast on the streets.

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Speaker 1: First off, the streets are horrible. They're real bumpy and uneven.

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Speaker 1: Not in that case. And there before me flew the

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Speaker 1: motorcade of al Gore when he was a vice president.

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Speaker 1: That's a vice president. I think that the thing that

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Speaker 1: many people ask or many people have questions about when

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Speaker 1: it comes to President Lincoln is access and opportunity. Abraham

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Speaker 1: Lincoln was known for his kind of folksy way and

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Speaker 1: back during those times, just measure this by what happens today, Dave.

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Speaker 1: If an individual wanted to come and see the President

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Speaker 1: at the White House, all they merely had to do

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Speaker 1: was it was referred to as presenting your card, and

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Speaker 1: you would knock on the front door of the White House.

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Speaker 1: You would show up, the door would be answered by servant,

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Speaker 1: and you would hand your card like a business card

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Speaker 1: over to the person that greets you at the door,

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Speaker 1: and they would announce you. Now, you might not get

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Speaker 1: to see the president. It stated that there would people

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Speaker 1: be standing around, milling about and waiting, but there were

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Speaker 1: people that got into see them. There were really no

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Speaker 1: appointments that were needed. You could take a shot, no

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Speaker 1: pun intended, and see him. And of course that night

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Speaker 1: at Ford's Theater, I think one of the lingering questions

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Speaker 1: guarding the president and what happened that night a low

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Speaker 1: these many years. How did Booth get access to the president,

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Speaker 1: to his box. And it's one thing to stand outside

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Speaker 1: of the President's box. Because let me kind of paint

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Speaker 1: the picture for you. If you're and having been there,

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Speaker 1: if you're in Ford's Theater, and I know I'm going

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Speaker 1: to say this wrong to all the people that have

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Speaker 1: theater background, so forgive me in advance. But if you're

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Speaker 1: standing center stage, if you will in the audience, there's

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Speaker 1: an orchestra pit right at the Ford portion in front

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Speaker 1: of the stage. They kind of sit you down and

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Speaker 1: the stage itself is pitched, which I was struck by.

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Speaker 1: The stage itself gradually rises from the front to the

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Speaker 1: rear and then it comes to this big crescendo where

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Speaker 1: you can see that there is a tremendous elevation change.

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Speaker 1: It's not like it is today. The stage is completely

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Speaker 1: different from the way they have it reassembled down there.

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Speaker 1: I was struck by that. But up to your right

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Speaker 1: in Ford's Theater, there is a president what they called

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Speaker 1: a box up there. It was the Presidential Box and

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Speaker 1: it's still festooned today. They have bunting, the red, white

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Speaker 1: and blue bunting that's up there, and there's a portrait

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Speaker 1: of President Washington hanging on the front of it. They

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Speaker 1: had prepped it that way that night, knowing and this

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Speaker 1: is the key, knowing that the president was going to come.

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Speaker 1: It was actually announced that he was going to be there.

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Speaker 2: You know, Joe, I actually found out. They had flyers

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Speaker 2: printed up announcing that he would be there and what

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Speaker 2: time he would be there.

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Speaker 1: This is fascinating because this is only four days after Lee.

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Speaker 1: It's surrendered at Appomattox, and people have described those times.

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Speaker 1: If you can imagine coming through this tremendous darkness, and

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Speaker 1: it is a darkness that none of us can comprehend.

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Speaker 1: I don't think of that war. In the movie Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Spielberg's Lincoln character of Lincoln is played by Daniel day Lewis,

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Speaker 1: and he makes the comment describing describing the Civil War

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Speaker 1: is I want to put an end to this pestilential war.

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Speaker 1: I love that term. It just encompasses everything. Can you imagine,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you get this news. They didn't

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Speaker 1: all they had telegraph and horseback. Suddenly the clouds began

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Speaker 1: to lift. Everybody's in a celebratory mood, and even reports

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Speaker 1: from the audience that night said that there was a

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Speaker 1: sense of levity in the audience that people. It was

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Speaker 1: like it was celebratory and people were very I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if happy is an insufficient term relief.

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Speaker 2: I think oddly though, even at that time, Lee had

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Speaker 2: surrendered to Grant four days earlier, but Tennessee was still fighting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were still battles going on. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that the surrender in North Carolina, which followed the surrender

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Speaker 1: at Appomatos had taken place even to this point, and

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Speaker 1: still out west you had skirmishes going on out in Texas,

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Speaker 1: so it hadn't actually come to an end. Things moved

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Speaker 1: a lot slower back then than they do now. Going

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Speaker 1: back even decades prior to this. The Battle of New

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Speaker 1: Orleans in the War of eighteen twelve was actually fought

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Speaker 1: after the end of hostilities. So that's kind of an

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Speaker 1: interesting It gives you an idea of how slow things moved,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have telegraph then, but it was a

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Speaker 1: different pace, and with that different pace, you didn't have

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Speaker 1: the rigor that you have now when it comes to

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Speaker 1: presidential security.

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Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned somebody being able to walk up to

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Speaker 2: the White House, knock on the door and present your

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Speaker 2: card and have access to the White House and possibly

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Speaker 2: the President. So at Ford's Theater where he's in the

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Speaker 2: presidential box where everybody's been told he's going to be,

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Speaker 2: it was not necessarily guarded. It has been said that

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Speaker 2: it was essentially unguarded.

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Speaker 1: Probably one of the most infamous characters in this whole

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Speaker 1: tragedy was this fellow John Parker, who was actually one

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Speaker 1: of the original members of the first established police force

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Speaker 1: for DC what we now know is DC Police. He

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Speaker 1: was actually one of the first members that were hired.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, we'll break it down. He was a drunk.

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Speaker 1: He had been reprimanded multiple times, had been brought before

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Speaker 1: board over and over and over again, and had never

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Speaker 1: been terminated from employment. Out of all of the people

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Speaker 1: in the world, he was actually assigned to protect the president. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is before the days where you had a Secret

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Speaker 1: Service presence taking care of everything. These guys that work

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Speaker 1: with Secret Service now they do advance planning so far

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Speaker 1: out that I think a lot of people would be

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Speaker 1: shocked to know everything that goes into that protection detail.

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Speaker 1: And back then, you know, when the Secret Service was

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Speaker 1: initially established, it had nothing to do with presidential security.

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Speaker 1: That's something that they inherited years later. There would be

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Speaker 1: two more presidents assassinated after Lincoln before it kind of

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Speaker 1: clicked with them that hey, you probably need a full

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Speaker 1: time detail. And back then they were known to do

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Speaker 1: counterfeit investigation. This John Parker character was assigned to Lincoln

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Speaker 1: and he would be found sleeping on duty many times.

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Speaker 1: He liked to as the older generation used to say,

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Speaker 1: he liked to pull the cork. And even that night,

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Speaker 1: after everyone got settled in the box up to the

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Speaker 1: right aspect or to the right of the stage, there

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Speaker 1: was a chair for him out there that he would

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Speaker 1: be seated in, and you got kind of two doors

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Speaker 1: that you have to walk through in order to get

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Speaker 1: access to the actual box. He would not have seen

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Speaker 1: inside of the box once he was stationed there. It

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Speaker 1: was at some point in time he was seen going

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Speaker 1: down leaving, chatting with the carriage driver for the President

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Speaker 1: and Missus Lincoln. Then adjourneying over to a bar that

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Speaker 1: was called the Star, and I've seen it. It's immediately

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Speaker 1: adjacent as you're facing forts theater. It's to the right,

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Speaker 1: and he began pulling a cork over there during this

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Speaker 1: period of time when the play was going on. Re

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Speaker 1: enters the theater, they believe, and finds himself a choice

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Speaker 1: seat down in the audience so that he can enjoy

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Speaker 1: the play, so the president is completely unguarded. Then enters

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Speaker 1: John Wilkes Booth his day, he would have been I

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Speaker 1: guess from a movie star perspective, he's Ben Affleck or

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Speaker 1: a Matt Damon, or he's bad brother.

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Speaker 2: Because of his brother Edwin being an act.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, you know, you're absolutely right. And their dad, Julius,

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Speaker 1: you know, had immigrated from Great Britain very well known.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was a theater family. They were known,

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Speaker 1: and he was known. He was regarded as very handsome,

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time at Fort's Theater, but he

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Speaker 1: was just full of vitriol when it came to the president.

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Speaker 1: He blamed the president for everything. He supported quote unquote

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Speaker 1: the Southern cause, but never quite found the guts to

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Speaker 1: go and sign up and stand a post and shoulder

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Speaker 1: a weapon. Never could find that within himself to do.

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Speaker 1: But yet he planned several attempts. I think at one

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Speaker 1: point time he's going to try to kidnap the President

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Speaker 1: and ransoming.

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Speaker 2: That plan had to be changed, obviously for all kinds

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Speaker 2: of reasons. But you mentioned he didn't have the guts

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Speaker 2: to shoulder a weapon. He didn't have the guts to

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Speaker 2: man up and actually fight for what he claims he believes.

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Speaker 2: But he did think by doing this he would become

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Speaker 2: a hero in the South, which plays into what really

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Speaker 2: happened after the fact.

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Speaker 1: As a Southerner, I have to admit I think that

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Speaker 1: Lincoln was out bringing the country back together, healing. I

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Speaker 1: think that this was the worst possible thing that could

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Speaker 1: have ever have happened. He did damage to the South

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Speaker 1: that would probably rival the damage that had actually occurred

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Speaker 1: during the war. When the North had an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: visit vengeance upon the South. Boy, they did it, and

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Speaker 1: they did it in spades. Man. I mean, they just

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Speaker 1: wrecked the South for years and years. And it was

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Speaker 1: because of this act, this act of this person. People

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Speaker 1: were sick of war. They didn't want anything else to

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Speaker 1: do with it. That night, back in eighteen sixty five,

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Speaker 1: in that old theater, when John Wilkes Booth pulled that

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia derringer from his pocket, he pulled that hammer back

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Speaker 1: and he let fly that round. He changed history. You

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Speaker 1: think about things in minute detail, particularly when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the assassination or president. The mere action of placing

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Speaker 1: the pad of your right index finger onto that smooth,

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00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: metallic surface of what otherwise would be known as a

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Speaker 1: beautiful and elegant weapon and engaging that trigger mechanism, That

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00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: one motion, that one initiation, that one action set in

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Speaker 1: motion things that I don't know that we have ever

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Speaker 1: recovered from Dave.

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Speaker 2: I think that what took place in the months leading

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Speaker 2: up to the assassination, from the summer of eighteen sixty four,

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Speaker 2: when John Willis Booth was gathering amongst some people who

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Speaker 2: felt the same way he did, or at least leaned

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Speaker 2: that way, up until the point the assassination, I think

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Speaker 2: that whole planning stage and the execution that took place

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Speaker 2: damaged our country and there are places still felt to

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Speaker 2: this day. I think Winston County, Alabama comes to mind

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Speaker 2: if you ever have a chance. And as long as

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Speaker 2: we're talking history, there's a place called Loony's Tavern in

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Speaker 2: Winston County, and at Looney's Tavern, the county decided to

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Speaker 2: not be involved in the Civil War, and they decided

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Speaker 2: they were going to be neutral Switzerland right here in

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Speaker 2: Winston County, Alabama, and to this day, because they remain neutral,

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Speaker 2: if you go into Winston County, you can tell how

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00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 2: the road changes from the minute you go into Winston

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Speaker 2: County because they don't get support from the state of

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Speaker 2: Alabama the way other counties do because they refused to

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Speaker 2: be involved. That's how far out I mean. It is

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three and we're talking about something that happened

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Speaker 2: in eighteen sixty one, two, three, four, and five. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: I had a question for you, because I'm not a

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00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 2: gun expert, Joe, I don't know that much about what

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00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 2: they do. I'm looking at everything surrounding the assassination and

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00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,719
Speaker 2: what John Willikes Booth was going to use. He couldn't

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Speaker 2: walk into the theater carrying a rifle. It had to

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Speaker 2: be a small gun. He knew as an actor he

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Speaker 2: would have access to areas within the theater that the

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00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 2: regular patron might not, So he knows he can get

295
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 2: up there. But he still has to have a weapon

296
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Speaker 2: that will do what he needs it to do. But

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00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 2: it has to be small enough that he can get

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Speaker 2: in there with it. So what are we talking about

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Speaker 2: with the gun that he used. Was that it didn't

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Speaker 2: have a magazine. It only had one shot, right.

301
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it did. It's quite a beautiful weapon when

302
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: you see it. And I've seen this weapon, the weapon.

303
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 1: You remember I had mentioned the theater Museum Forts Theater.

304
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: It's in the basement and look, I recommend anybody if

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Speaker 1: you're in DC, go to Fort Theater. It's one of

306
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 1: those places that you got to pay to get into.

307
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of stuff that's free in DC.

308
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Speaker 1: That's the beauty of it if you're a history person.

309
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 1: But fortunately you got to pay. It's worth every dime

310
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 1: you're going to spend. Trust me, this weapon, it looks

311
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: like it's floating in the air and when you see it,

312
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: but it's pegged up there with a couple of really

313
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,919
Speaker 1: tiny little nails and hanging suspended in the air, and

314
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 1: you can see it. And what's really kind of fascinating

315
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: about it is that you can move around this thing

316
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 1: and you can actually stare right down the muzzle of it.

317
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean when I say steer down the muzzle, you

318
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 1: can stare down the muzzle so effectively that you can

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00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,719
Speaker 1: actually see the lands and grooves which are the twists

320
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: that are built into this barrel. I think many folks

321
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: believe that this is almost like an old fashioned smooth

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00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: or musket. It's not. It was back then. It was

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00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,360
Speaker 1: cutting edge technology. It's referred to as a Philadelphia darringer.

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Speaker 1: It had a walnut stock, has a walnut stock, and

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Speaker 1: it's beautifully embossed. This style of weapon is something that

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Speaker 1: people will refer to as a poker pistol, which is

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Speaker 1: interesting also as a pocket pistol, a palm pistol, a

328
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Speaker 1: belly gun. And it was meant, as you had stated,

329
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: for concealment purposes. And the effective range on it is

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Speaker 1: very limited, very very limited. Once you get outside of

331
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,920
Speaker 1: probably about ten feet, you might as well be throwing

332
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 1: rocks at that point. In time. But the reason the

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00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: scene is referred to as a poker pistol is that

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00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: the distance across a poker table that the scene would

335
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: have been deployed in would be sufficient to the task

336
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 1: if you were firing at somebody across the table. I

337
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: don't know if they're cheating at cards or whatever the

338
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: case might be. But here's what's interesting. When you look

339
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: down the muzzle of this weapon. You remember I talked

340
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: about lands and grooves for its time, this particular weapon

341
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: had a left hand twist, which when you think about

342
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: lands and grooves, which are or those kind of spiraling

343
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: marks that run down the length of the barrel to

344
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: add stability to the round. It's kind of like throwing

345
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: a football. The reason really good football players are great,

346
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: or quarterbacks that is, is if they can get a

347
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: tight spiral on a ball, it maintains energy. Okay, the

348
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: bullet is spinning, the football is spinning, and it maintains

349
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,719
Speaker 1: it holds onto what energy that it can, and it

350
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Speaker 1: stays on target. Whereas if you fire something down a

351
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 1: smooth bore, that projectile is kind of rattling down the barrel,

352
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: if you will, and it has no kind of predictability

353
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Speaker 1: to it. Now, there are parameters for this thing. First off,

354
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Speaker 1: you have to consider the size of the round. You

355
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: have to consider the amount of powder or propellant that

356
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Speaker 1: would have been used.

357
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: What would it have looked like. Would it have been

358
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: like a bullet like we know today or would it

359
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: be a round ball? And where would the powder be.

360
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: It's been known under several different calibers. And remember when

361
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: we caliber, we're talking about the diameter in inches around

362
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: the circumference of the round itself. So this is some

363
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: people call it a forty four caliber. Some people call

364
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: it a forty five caliber. That is the Philadelphia Derringer.

365
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: It was a forty four caliber. That means point four

366
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: to four inches in diameter. Okay, the muzzle of the weapon.

367
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: Booth loaded this thing with a point four to one,

368
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: So he didn't get the maximum power because as it's

369
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: packed in there, as it's packed in there, and you

370
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: have to use If people have seen what a ramrod is,

371
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: it's the attachment. It looks like a rod that's generally

372
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: held beneath the length of the barrel on a weapon.

373
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: That is what was referred to as a muzzle loader.

374
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: So you have to put the round down the barrel

375
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 1: from the open end of the barrel and pack it

376
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 1: down in there. In order to get this thing to

377
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: initiate well, he used al of bullet which was a

378
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: forty one caliber. The bullet is actually smaller. What you

379
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: want is primarily you want a round that it's going

380
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: to be tightly fitted in there, because that is going

381
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 1: to take advantage of this muzzle, of this blast of

382
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: the propellant. As a firing sequence is initiated, You're going

383
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: to transfer more energy that's kinetic energy to this round

384
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: as it travels out of the end of this muzzle

385
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: and gets to target. You have to preload this thing

386
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: and have it loaded in your pocket. Generally, the hammer

387
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: is forward and hammer is the big mechanism. If you'll

388
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: take a look at this thing online, it's again it's

389
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 1: elegant when you see it. The hammer mechanism is that

390
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: thing that has to be driven forward by the trigger.

391
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: When you pull the trigger, the hammer slams forward and

392
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: initiates the firing sequence. And there's a couple of components here.

393
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: There is what's referred to as there's actually what's referred

394
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: to as a nipple in the hammer housing which has

395
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: a little firing port on the top. So you have

396
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: to take a percussion cap which has got an explosive

397
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: in it, it's brass. You set it on the nipple, okay,

398
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: And so when the hammer, when the trigger is pulled

399
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: and the hammer slams forward, it sends this little spark

400
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: down this little portal inside of the nipple, and it

401
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: travels down until it strikes. That spark strikes the actual

402
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: propellant or powder inside of the muzzle that you've already preloaded.

403
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: That explosion goes off, and so the bullet then travels

404
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel and heads toward

405
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: the target. So pull a trigger now, for instance, on

406
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: a semi automatic weapon, you don't really get the sense

407
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: of any kind of delay, even though there is in

408
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: a millisecond when the firing pin strikes that primer cap

409
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: that we have on that's built into a bullet now

410
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: or live ammo, and that firing sequence all initiates inside

411
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: the barrel. Not with this, what would have happened is,

412
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: as Booth took this weapon out of his pocket, he

413
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: would have had to have cocked the hammer externally. And

414
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: it's really high. It looks like it sits about one

415
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: to two inches above the top level of the barrel.

416
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: The back side of the barrel. He would have pulled

417
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: it back and it would have clicked twice. You have

418
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: a half cock and then you have a full cock.

419
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: In order to fire it, you got to pull it

420
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: all the way back so it'd go click click. Okay.

421
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: He probably would have done this before he entered the

422
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: area where where Lincoln and Mary Todd, Lincoln and Major

423
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: Rathbone and his date were seated. He would have walked

424
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: up to the back of Lincoln and pointed the thing

425
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: at his head. And we can get into that in

426
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: a moment. But when he initiated this firing sequence, Dave,

427
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: you would have heard a click as the thing is fired,

428
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: and then you would have heard a small all explosion.

429
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: It would have been like that and then boom. So

430
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: it's like boom like this. What happens is that externally,

431
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: that hammer slams forward on that primer cap, initiates a

432
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: tiny explosion, and that tiny explosion initiates a bigger explosion,

433
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: which is the propellant, and it drives that round out

434
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: of the end of that barrel. Now, today, if you

435
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: were try to get an idea of the energy of

436
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: this weapon, Okay, in today's standards, it would be probably

437
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: the equivalent of our highest powered air gun that we have. Wow.

438
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: And the further away you are from target, the more

439
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: diminished the power is. So you have to be up close.

440
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: And of course Wilkes was close. He was probably within

441
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: inches of Lincoln's head when he pulled that trigger, and

442
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: this whole firing seam was initiated.

443
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: When that firing equin's initiated. The click, Okay, he squeezes

444
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: the trigger and the beginning it starts. Would there have

445
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: been enough time for President Lincoln to react to hearing

446
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 2: that click the figure is pulled, for him to react

447
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: and try and begin to turn before before the bullet

448
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: came out.

449
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: That's the thing about this. I'm so glad you brought

450
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: this up. As we've stated, and everybody knows John Wills

451
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: Booth was an actor, and he had been present for

452
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: this play so many times. He knew some of the

453
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: people that were in the play. And not only did

454
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: he know that, he knew because it's a comedy, all right,

455
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: he knew when laughter was going to rise and fall,

456
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: and he timed it as a line is delivered that

457
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: during the period of this play that elicits the loudest

458
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: roar of laughter that can be experienced. According to what

459
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: we know about the nature of the injury that President

460
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: Lincoln sustained, he apparently was leaning forward, perhaps okay, with

461
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: his head kind of pitched downward, all right, And some

462
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: people believe he wasn't looking at the stage, but he

463
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: was probably looking in the orchestra pit, which is in

464
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: front of the stage. There may be some instrument caught

465
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: his attention when you're around an orchestra, and Lincoln would

466
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: have been around a lot of music, because every time

467
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: he walks in a room, somebody's gonna play Hell to

468
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: the Chief. There's still this fascination about a group of

469
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: people getting together and playing instruments, and they're playing the

470
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: soundtrack essentially for this play. Some people believe that he's

471
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: looking down at the orchestra pit, and this kind of

472
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: dictates the orientation of his head relative to the firing line.

473
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: But Booth knew enough about the play so that when

474
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: laughter began to rise, he knew that his movements, the

475
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: cop that weapon, and any comment he would make would

476
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: be drowned out. He knew that anybody else that might

477
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: be occupying that area up there, their attention would be

478
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: drawn to the stage, and the idea is to get

479
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: the eyes away from you if you're the assassin. And

480
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: to a great degree, he had planned this perfectly in

481
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: that sense, didn't plan his escape very well, but he

482
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: planned this to this point. He knew that this was

483
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: the best time. So when he fired that round into

484
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: the back of the president's head, he had one attempt

485
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: to do it. Here's a fascinating thing about these Philadelphia

486
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: and Derringers as they referred to. You could buy them

487
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: in pairs, and as a matter of fact, you could

488
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: buy I think I think this is correct. You could

489
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: actually buy a pair of these things for twenty four dollars,

490
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: which was a tremendous amount of money, but Booth is

491
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: very successful, would have been considered in that day wealthy.

492
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Probably you could actually buy in pairs, and it stands

493
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: the reason that you would want it because if one

494
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: round was not effective, you've got a second fallback weapon

495
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: to fire as well. Because these are not semi automatic,

496
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: it's a pains taking practice to have to go through

497
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: and load it. And the way the loading actually took

498
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: place is that you would measure out the number of

499
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: grains that it would take grains of propellant, which this

500
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: is a black powder weapon, so it's very messy, very

501
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: very messy. It's not like smokeless powder like we have today.

502
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: You put the powder down into the barrel, so you

503
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: have to lift the muzzle so it's pointed skyward. You

504
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: pour the powder down in there. Okay, Then you put

505
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: a cloth patch down on top of the powder. Then

506
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: the ball, which is a ball. It's a ball of lead,

507
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: all right. It's not the kind of conical shape bullet

508
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: that we have now that have points on them. Okay,

509
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: you'd ask that earlier. This is actually a ball that

510
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: is now rammed down in there with this tiny little

511
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: ramrod that's attached on the base of this Philadelphia derringer,

512
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: and the bullet is what's referred to as seated at

513
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: that time. You get it tightly packed in there so

514
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: that when you're walking up and you're walking up down

515
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: the streets, or you're riding on horseback or whatever it is,

516
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: bullet's not going to fall out. You have to have

517
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: it tightly seated in there so that when you do

518
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: use this thing and you cock it and you set

519
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: that action in motion, you're guaranteed, first off, you're going

520
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: to still have a round in there. It's not going

521
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: to fall off in your pocket. And then secondly that

522
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: it's tightly secured enough so that you were going to

523
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: get maximum pressure when that explosion takes place.

524
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: As we look at what has taken place, this is

525
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: the part that, like millions of other people, I can't

526
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: understand what happened. Next, we've got John Willikes booth in

527
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: the theater where he obviously had access because people knew

528
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: who he was. Now Booth standing there the trigger. He

529
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: shoots the president in the head and then proceeds to

530
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: slash major wrathbone and then leaps from the presidential booth

531
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: to the stage. That's the story, and that Wrathbone tried

532
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: to grab his jacket, causing Booth to land awkwardly, possibly

533
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: breaking his leg as he landed. And then the hunt

534
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: was on everybody else. As you mentioned, is there a

535
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: surgeon in the house. The president has been shot in

536
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: the head, They have to immediately get him out of

537
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: where he is and get him into the care of doctors.

538
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure they just don't grab him up like a

539
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: child and run out of there.

540
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: Now when he was initially when the first assessment was

541
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: made by a surgeon that rolled into the box. He

542
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: noted that the president was still seated in his chair,

543
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: in the presidential chair there in the booth, and he

544
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: was leaning to his right. So the defect or where

545
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: the injury is is going to be on the left,

546
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: rear or posterior aspect of the president's skull. And Mary

547
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: Todd Lincoln was kind of cradling. He was leaning over

548
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: on top of her. He's a big man too, I mean,

549
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: Tala's president we've ever had. He's leaning over onto the

550
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: first lady, and she's kind of diminutive, so you can

551
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: see this giant of a man. She's cradling, she's I'm

552
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: sure she's weeping. She's hysterical at this point. And the

553
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: surgeon arrives and they know that he's I don't know

554
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: that they know he's been mortally wounded. As a matter

555
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: of fact, people saw people report hearing the report of

556
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: a weapon. Many people pause because they thought that it

557
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: was part of the play. Can you imagine that? And

558
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: I think that it's much the same kind of response

559
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: that we would have today. We're not automatically going to

560
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: think that somebody has just been the victim of homicide

561
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: right in front of us. We think if you're at

562
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: an entertainment venue like this, you're going to think, oh,

563
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: this is just part of the play. And somebody's down

564
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: the stage leapt from a box very dramatically, and I

565
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: think even Booth shouted out. Some people debate over what

566
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: he said. Six sempra tyrannus I think, which is the

567
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: state model Virginia Death to Tyrants? I think?

568
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: But you mentioned earlier that he knew the play. Yeah,

569
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: he picked an actual part of the play where people

570
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: might think it was part of the show, So he

571
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: knew what he was doing in terms of the potential getaway.

572
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: So there's kind of this delay that occurs. It's reported

573
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: that Mary Todd Lincoln screamed, and it's at that point

574
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: it kind of jolted everybody. They realized that something truly

575
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: horrible has happened, and you have people that are in attendance.

576
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: A young surgeon had made his way up to the

577
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: box and when he was taking a look at at

578
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: President Lincoln, he's trying to assess, which is what surgeons do,

579
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: that's what physicians do. They're trying to assess a patient

580
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: to try to understand. First off, if it's trauma related,

581
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: where is this these insults to the body that we're

582
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: looking for. At first, he saw blood on the sho

583
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: people did see the knife. You know, this Philadelphia pocket

584
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: pistol is easily concealed. They heard what sounded like gunfire,

585
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: but there was nothing to validate. But Boots got this

586
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: knife that actually looks like a big Bowie knife, gigantic hilt,

587
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: lengthy blade. He's brandishing this thing. Rathbone has been cut

588
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: at this point from his shoulder down to his elbow.

589
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: I think he's been slashed. So the surgeon, his first

590
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: inclination is to think, well, maybe this is a cut,

591
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: maybe the president has been slashed in some way. But

592
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: then as he begins to kind of work his hand

593
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: up to the president's hairline, he pulls it away and

594
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: he notes that there's blood on the back of the skull,

595
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: on the back of his head, and then he knows

596
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: what he's dealing with. He's dealing with a gunshot one,

597
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: which is something he would not have been unfamiliar with. Remember,

598
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: we're still in the midst of a war.

599
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: Back then, and they didn't have extra they didn't have MRIs.

600
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: They didn't have any means of figuring out what kind

601
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 2: of damage has been done. We just at this point

602
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: know that the president has been shot in the head.

603
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: What do they do? Start poking? How do they know?

604
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: Well, what they know. The first thing they do is

605
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: they're using their bare hands, which look, you can't fault

606
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: these people for doing that. And I'm going to tell you,

607
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if you've got somebody there and you don't

608
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: have surgical gloves only, you're going to use your hands

609
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: as well. But you there's a higher there's the bar

610
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 1: is a bit higher for surgeons, certainly today there are.

611
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: But you know, the only way that you can kind

612
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: of assess what's going on is that you're going to

613
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: feel for a defect, and it would have been a

614
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: circular defect that he would have sustained. And if folks

615
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: that are listening, if you will find that bony protuberance

616
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: on the back of your skull. It's kind of this

617
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: bump on the back of it. Okay, that's the excipital area.

618
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: Some people call it the occiput. This injury is going

619
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: to be three inches behind what they called the external

620
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: auditory meatus, which is essentially your ear hole, so it's

621
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: going to be to the rear of the left ear

622
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: and slightly to the left of the midline. So if

623
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: you find the back of your skull, f on the

624
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: middle of it, below the occiput, that bony protuberance, and

625
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: go right there below that area on the back of

626
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: your head, that's where the president's gunshot wound is. So

627
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: when it entered, it actually pushed through the cerebellum, which

628
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: is that portion of the brain that sits at the

629
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: base of the brain. It was tough to assess the

630
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: track of the wound, and even today you don't have

631
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: immediate access to X ray or be able to make

632
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: some kind of diagnostic assessment. But the President, for a

633
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: time at least, had stopped breathing and his pupils were dilated.

634
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: He had either shallow respirations or no respirations at all.

635
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: But guess what, When this initial responding surgeon places his

636
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: hand adjacent finds the defect, he pulls out a clot

637
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: of blood which had been creating pressure at that point

638
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: in time. And when he pulled out that clot of blood,

639
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: Lincoln starts breathing again. So with that spark, with that moment,

640
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: there's probably hope. Certainly everybody else is not really going

641
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: to know what's going on. But the surgeon says, Okay,

642
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: I've done this assessment. I've removed this clot of blood.

643
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: You know what, maybe there's a chance the president is breathing. Now,

644
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: what do you do with him? Because we know, we

645
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: know that they had made the assessment even up in

646
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: that box that they could not take him very far.

647
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: He sustained a gunshot wound to the head. They know

648
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: that he's probably not going to be long for this world.

649
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: That we didn't have. You didn't have escalades that drive

650
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: smoothly down the road on paved roads. At best, roads

651
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: were cobblestone and in DC at that particular time, it

652
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: was nothing to have dirt streets, and those would have

653
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: wagon wheel ruts in them. So you take somebody that

654
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: has got, let's face it, probably one of the most

655
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: serious head wounds that you can sustain, and you put

656
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: them in the back of a buggy or the back

657
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: of a wagon and try to convey them all the

658
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: way back to the White House, which is some distance

659
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: away down these bumpy roads. It probably wouldn't last one block.

660
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: So they've got to get him somewhere in the closest

661
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: place is is boarding house. It's immediately across the street

662
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: from Ford's Theater. And people have heard this tale before,

663
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: but you have to be able to assess the president

664
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: in his current status. The bed that they found. Lincoln's

665
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: a tall guy that had to place him kind of,

666
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: they'd say obliquely they use that term, but it's kind

667
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: of diagonally across bed so that he would he could

668
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: fit on it. And soon you've got all of these

669
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: surgeons gathering at the house. Not to mention any kind

670
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: of other officials, but here's the thing. When you've got

671
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: more than one physician in the room, everybody's going to

672
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: have a different opinion. And just think about the added

673
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: pressure of having the president there. What they did know

674
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: is that they were going to try to have to

675
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: assess the location as they refer to the location of

676
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: the ball. We refer to them as projectiles now most

677
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: of the time, but they refer to these as balls.

678
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: And this goes all the way back to muzzle loading

679
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: days of the Revolutionary War and up to that day

680
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: in particular, because it was a ball shape. It was

681
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: a spherical lead ball that had been fired into the

682
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: president's head. They had to try to determine the track

683
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: of the wound, where did it go, where did it

684
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: wind up, And they had this interesting kind of probe,

685
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: which is fascinating. They didn't have X ray, so what

686
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: they would do is that they would insert this probe

687
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: that had this kind of fin like shape to it,

688
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: and as you go into the track of the wound,

689
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: there was a certain feel that this probe would generate

690
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: as it may contact with the metallic body in there.

691
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: And this was disrupted a few times because as they're

692
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: doing this assessment with this probe, they're encountering not the

693
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: lead ball, but they're encountering fractured bits of skull because

694
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: the ball itself cavitated through the area. But as it's

695
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: passing through the external table of the skull, it's creating

696
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: other little satellite projectiles that are pointy, they're jagged, so

697
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: they're tearing apart any of the little vessels and there

698
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: are many in the brain, and you're creating this cavitated

699
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: area that's filling up with blood. They're trying to keep

700
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: it drained because they do know even at that primitive

701
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: state that they were in and understanding of how the

702
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: brain functions. The more pressure you have entercranial pressure, you

703
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: have the higher probability that you're going to lose a patient.

704
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: So they were trying their best to keep this clotted

705
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: blood out, essentially draining that area's best they could in

706
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: that boarding house. He survived. He survived remarkably, I think

707
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: roughly in the neighborhood of about eight hours. They didn't

708
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: call it until seven thirty am. This had happened, I believe,

709
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: shortly after ten pm that night when he was shot.

710
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: So the fact that they were able to help him

711
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 1: survive that long is quite the feat. He couldn't. As

712
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: the night went by, his breathing became progressively more labor

713
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: There was another moment in time where they were able

714
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: to remove a clotted area of blood. Again his breathing

715
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: picked back up. But at that point time you can't

716
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: get in to this area. They don't have the ability,

717
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: they don't have the technology and the tools to be

718
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: able to perform surgery on the president. This is in

719
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: fact a mortal wound.

720
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: Backing up for just a second, do they at that

721
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: time take into account the muzzle velocity and this fact

722
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: that it is just a ball as to how far

723
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: it could traverse into his brain, and are they thinking, hey,

724
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: we need to figure out a way to get that

725
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: out of there.

726
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: Probably this is the trouble. This is what the attendings

727
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: were faced with at this moment tom when they're attempting

728
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: to do this assessment day, They're sitting there and they're thinking,

729
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: how in the world are we going to retrieve this round?

730
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: And even if we retrieved around, what does this mean

731
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: for the president. What does this mean for his ability

732
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: to survive? What does it mean for if he does survive,

733
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: what his quality of life is going to be like?

734
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: I think that they probably know the further that they

735
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: try to go down this wound track, there's a higher

736
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: probability they're going to compromise the brain's function. I think

737
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: that they know that. So these initial attempts to probe

738
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: I think were hopeful attempts.

739
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: Was he ever conscious, he was.

740
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: Down, he was out the entirety, He never gain consciousness.

741
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: I think that there are a couple of reports that

742
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: he had begun to snore heavily at one point in time,

743
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: which is something that is associated with a diminishment many

744
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: times with patients that have sustained these fatal head traumas

745
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: that are kind of lingering, and all the while you've

746
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: got this other action that's going on. You know, I

747
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: talked about the clotting that was taking place, but when

748
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: they're assessing this wound on the back of his head,

749
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: they noted that there was they referred to as echymosis

750
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: that was developing around the entry wound. Well, akymosis means

751
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: that there's swelling. It has the appearance of a bruise,

752
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: and they would have been able to appreciate this while

753
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: trying to assess him through kind of the fog of

754
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: the gunpowder residue, because there's going to be a tremendous

755
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: amount of deposition just from imagine something that is as

756
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: black as asphalt. When you're talking about black powder deposition

757
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: on an area like this, it would have just been

758
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: surrounding the wound. They can see that there is there

759
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: is developing hemorrhage back there. They know that, and this

760
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: is just externally. They know that the capiliar beds have

761
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: been burst in this area. He's still breathing, he's still

762
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: his heart still pumping, so he's bleeding out into this area.

763
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: Swelling is occurring. Not only do you have swelling occurring

764
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: externally that they can appreciate vias via the echuamosis, but

765
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: there's also entracranial pressure is building up because of the

766
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: swelling the trauma that the brain has gone through, and

767
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: the more it it swells, the more it swells, the

768
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: more diminished the capacity of the brain to function, and

769
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: more compromised it has become. Interestingly enough, I'd mentioned the

770
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: wound track. It clipped the top of the left aspect

771
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: of the cerebellum, and then kind of there's been questions

772
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: over the years as to the exact track of the

773
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: of the wound, and we'll get to that in just

774
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: a second relative to the autopsy, But there is one

775
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: thought that the that the track of the round went

776
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: straight ahead toward the back of the left eye, okay,

777
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: and that would have left it in the left hemisphere

778
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: of the brain. Then there's another school of thought that

779
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 1: it traversed from left to right. So if you put

780
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: your hand back where I told you initially, your finger

781
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: back there where the entrance wound would have been, you

782
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: start there and then you go to the right orbit

783
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: of your eye, that the projectile would have lodged immediately

784
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: behind the right eye and it kind of travers diagonally

785
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: across the mid line, so you've got it crossing from

786
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: the left hemisphere of the brain into the right hemisphere

787
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: of the brain. We do know that the brain was

788
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: greatly damaged in this event, to the point where even

789
00:46:43,600 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: at autopsy they were having trouble assessing that the president's

790
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: body was removed from the boarding house. It was placed

791
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: into a carriage, the body was given a cavalry escort.

792
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: There's a bit of I hate to use the word

793
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: irony in this because that can be misunderstood. But it's

794
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: fascinating to me that John Parker, the security guard, was

795
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: absent that night, but as soon as the president was

796
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: shot they talked about the streets were filled filled with

797
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: mental horseback carrying sabers. You had tremendous security that showed

798
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: up after the fact. That's quite the tragedy. They actually

799
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: had to use soldiers to keep people back from the

800
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: boarding house. And it's easy to Monday morning quarterback, but

801
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: why not beforehand? A lot of this could have been spared.

802
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 1: That was just not their way of thinking. And Lincoln

803
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: was notorious for slipping away. He was not a pretentious person.

804
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 1: They referred to him as rough hewn, that he grew

805
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: up in the wilderness, and he truly did you know

806
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: those areas that he occupied as a small boy, starting

807
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, going to Indiana, and then winding up in Illinois.

808
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: That was a frontier man. It was hard living and

809
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: wasn't lace curtains and crystal chandeliers and all that sort

810
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: of stuff in his world. He didn't like pretense, I

811
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: don't think, and so he would dismiss security periodically. He

812
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: would he would not want to be surrend He wanted

813
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: to be with people. That was his nature. And so

814
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: that night his body was conveyed back to the White House,

815
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: which is where the autopsy actually took place. And one

816
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: description they talked about how the room in which his

817
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: body was examined was sparsely decorated, which is kind of

818
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: interesting given Mary Todd Lincoln's preoccupation with spending lots of

819
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: money on redecorating the White House. There was even a

820
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: congressional investigation into her expenditures. But they placed him on

821
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 1: a slatted surface, wooden boards covered with sheets and cloths essentially,

822
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: and to do the examination there were multiple physicians there and.

823
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: Who would actually do it Joe. Would it be the

824
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: surgeon that was on duty with him.

825
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: You've got a couple of surgeons that were participating. There

826
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: was really you had doctors that studied disease, but you

827
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: didn't actually have what would be called a pathologist, okay,

828
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: like we have nowadays. You had a guy that was

829
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: a surgeon. For a long time, the term surgeon and

830
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: physician were kind of interchangeable. You had one surgeon, doctor Curtis,

831
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: that was present for the autopsy and was actually conducting

832
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: the autopsy. He's the person that removed the President's brain.

833
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: How do you go about opening a head in this

834
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: environment doing an autopsy, Well, you use it with a

835
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: hand saw. You did it with a handsaw, and they

836
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: had a very specific type of saw that they would

837
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: have used. It had a small wooden handle on it.

838
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: The teeth of the blade were more robust than say,

839
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: for instance, a hacksaw. But it is a saw nonetheless,

840
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: that would have had to have been used to do this.

841
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: I've actually used a handsaw to open a skull at autopsy,

842
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: and it is laborious. We usually use a striker saw,

843
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: which is I've talked about before, which is this agitating

844
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: saw where the blade moves back rapidly back and forth,

845
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: and within just a couple of minutes, you'd have what's

846
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: referred to as the calvarium, which the calviarium is actually created.

847
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: It's created, and some people call it the skull cap.

848
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: You remove it after the incision in the bone is

849
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: made with the saw, and once it's detached, it's referred

850
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: to as the calvarium, which is essentially the roof of skull,

851
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: so that you can get access to the brain. That

852
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: the trick is when you're opening a skull at autopsy,

853
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: you have to make sure that the opening is sufficient

854
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 1: to the size of the brain because if you're trying

855
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: to take it out, the brain can be described when

856
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: you're touching it as having kind of a gelatinous texture

857
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: to it. It's very fragile, and most brains are not

858
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: immediately dissected. Many times when you dissect a brain, what

859
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: will happen is you will set it aside and place

860
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 1: it into a bucket of formuline, which formulane is a

861
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: type of formal the hide that's used in a medical context.

862
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: The ideal thing is to let a brain set up

863
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: for about two weeks before you dissect it because you

864
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: want it to be firm, and it takes that long

865
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: a time to get it to that consistency. You have

866
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: to make sure that the incision in the bone is

867
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: sufficient to the task, so that calvarium when you take

868
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: it off, is that defect that it's created by its

869
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: absence is large enough so that you can get your

870
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: fingers around the base of the brain into the floor

871
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: of the skull when they finally did get their hands

872
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: inside of the skull. And these doctors would have been

873
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: doing this bare handed, by the way, in case, there

874
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: was no such thing as a rubber glove at this

875
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: point on. So everything is done since a touch. They're

876
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of feeling their way around. I would imagine that

877
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: the room they would have been very respectful. I've always

878
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: wondered what kind of light source did they use. There

879
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: is no electricity, so are they doing everything with some

880
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: type of lantern? Perhaps is there another person standing there

881
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: with a lantern that's illuminating the area. Maybe the lantern

882
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: has a mirror on it to take advantage of the

883
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: reflected light, and you're shining it onto this area. But

884
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff is having to be done by touch.

885
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: We look at it from the standpoint of what we

886
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: have now and how we work and how we go

887
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: about things. But for them, President of the United States

888
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: of America would get the best care and post warning,

889
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: he would get the best of the best at that time.

890
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: So even when we talk about them using their bare hands,

891
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: these are experienced individuals.

892
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, these guys would have seen, Dave, I cannot emphasize

893
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: to our listeners how much experience these people would have had,

894
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: even if you had not been on the battlefield. There

895
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: was so much trauma. I don't know if any point

896
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: in time in our history as a country, the medical

897
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: sciences have been around this level of trauma that they

898
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: had witnessed low these four to five years prior to

899
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: this event, where you had people's lives that just blasted.

900
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: Their bodies are just blasted apart, and they're trying to

901
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: do everything that you can to save them. These guys

902
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: would have been highly skilled for that day, and highly

903
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: skilled in the sense that there was a lot of

904
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 1: stuff they were having to do blind, and of course

905
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: it was you know, in our eyes, it was very barbaric.

906
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: There were a lot of amputations back then and this

907
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and the person that was using the

908
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: saw Dave, this would not have been the first time

909
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,439
Speaker 1: that they had when the saws in their hands. Goes

910
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: back to the old adage that I think I've stated before.

911
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: See when do one teach one that gaining this experience

912
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: through all of these cases being thrown at you. But

913
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: when the attendings and there were two got their hands

914
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: inside the skull, one thing that they were able to

915
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: appreciate was the floor of the skull. If you think

916
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: about the area that's immediately adjacent up and above, behind, up,

917
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: up and above and behind your eyes. When the doctor's

918
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 1: got their their hands into you know what, I guess

919
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: what you refer to. Some people use the term the

920
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: cranial vault. You still you're probing, trying to remove the

921
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: brain carefully, because the brain is greatly traumatized. Some people

922
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: might use a term called macerated. It's really really chewed

923
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: up at this point as a result of this cavitating

924
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: injury that's generated by this rather ample projectile. When you're

925
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: trying to remove the brain, you're being very very delicate,

926
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: and even to this day, we try to be very delicate.

927
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: When we take a brain out of the skull. You're

928
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: having to trim away all of the connected vessels that

929
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: are coming up into the base of the brain and

930
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: also the optic nerves to try to cut them loose.

931
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: But as they're running their hand on the underside of

932
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: Lincoln's brain, they notice something, they feel something, They know

933
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: that the floor of the skull, which directly above the eyes,

934
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: is uneven. I have actually cut my finger on the

935
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: floor of a skull before. When I'm running my hand

936
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: trying to remove the brain. You can clip the latex

937
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: on glove. The bones very sharp. So if you have

938
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: these fractured areas, which Lincoln did, those bony prominences in

939
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: there are very thin, I mean they are eggshell thin,

940
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: and the edges of those bones become very very sharp.

941
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: So as this bullet is traveling through there, you not

942
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: only have the force of the projectile the mass of

943
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: that bullet traveling through this very delicate tissue creating this cavity.

944
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: You've also got this kinetic energy that's being pressed through there,

945
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: and it comes out in like a wave and you

946
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: get these I've turned them as kind of concussive fractures,

947
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: if you will, where this energy is being transferred this

948
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: huge amount of pressure, because just imagine this, you're creating

949
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: this hole that if you look at the tip of

950
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: your little finger right now, just look down the length

951
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: of it. Think about your little finger that's about at

952
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: the tip of it. That's going to be about the

953
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: size of the hole that this thing would have created.

954
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: So you're injecting this energy, this blast, this force through

955
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: this tiny little hole and an otherwise perfectly sealed environment.

956
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: So where's this energy going to go? Where it's going

957
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: to go, It's going to seek out the weakest points

958
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: and it's going to fracture. But this is significant for

959
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: them because this explained something else that they're seeing manifested

960
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: on Lincoln's body, which had been manifested before they actually

961
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: pronounced him dead, and that was his eyes were swelling,

962
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: the right eye in particular, and that gave them an

963
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: indication that that might be where the projectile arrested. The

964
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,919
Speaker 1: right eyes swelling. The pupil is completely blown. Now, it's

965
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: dilated all the way out, there's no longer any kind

966
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: of nervous control over it. It's open. The eye is

967
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: progressively swelling and swelling, swelling, and this is confirming everything

968
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: that they're believing, but it's still it's still a confusing

969
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: mass that they're holding in their hand. They're wanting to

970
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: get to this projectile. They're wanting to find it. And

971
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: one of the doctors, when you're reading over the notes

972
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: of these physicians that are involved in this examination, you

973
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: can actually sense that they knew what they were doing.

974
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: And when I let me rephrase that, to this extent,

975
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: they knew what they were involved in. They were involved

976
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: in the post warm examination of a man who had

977
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: led the country through this horrible time which they had

978
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: borne witness to. They had borne witness to it in

979
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: a way that no one else had, not even soldiers.

980
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: They had seen kind of the cost in the field hospitals,

981
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: and the decisions that he had made along the way.

982
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: They knew that the man's brain that they were holding

983
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: in their hands had been making decisions directing the country

984
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: over all of these years. And they described kind of

985
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: the solemnity in that room, the quietness of it. And

986
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: the only thing that actually shattered those quiet moments was

987
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: when they finally removed that brain. There's blood and tissue

988
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: that's fallen away from it. There's a basin down below

989
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: that's made out of porcelain. You've got this cavernous room.

990
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: It's very quiet. Earlier you heard the sound of that

991
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: sobbing drug across the surface of the bone, and all

992
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden there was this metal clank sound. It

993
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: shattered the silence, absolutely shattered the silence. And what was it?

994
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: It was a mushroomed projectile. They never could pinpoint the

995
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: exact location of it, but almost like, I don't know,

996
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: some kind of metaphysical event. The bullet presents itself through

997
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: this announcement that shatters the silence, and you knew. I

998
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: think that they knew from as scientists that they had

999
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: found what they were looking for, any kind of gunshot

1000
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: wound that we have nowaday we do X rays prior

1001
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: to doing the examination. First off, the configuration of the

1002
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: bullet has changed, because a bullet was a sphere when

1003
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: it entered or when it exited that round, But when

1004
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: it slammed into the back of the skull and it

1005
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: met that bone, the makeup of that bullet changed at

1006
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: that moment time it reconfigured itself. It's impacting bones, so

1007
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: it's creating these little bits of bony shrapnel that are

1008
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: being driven out into the brain and also little elements

1009
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: of that lead ball are being left behind. And an

1010
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: X ray when we put an X ray up on

1011
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: a board on a lightboard, after we've taken this this

1012
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: X ray of the head, you can actually see a

1013
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: little lead storm and it gives you an idea of

1014
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: the track of the round. So you can actually if

1015
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: you do if you do a lateral X ray, which

1016
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,439
Speaker 1: means on the side X ray the side of the head.

1017
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: You know, kind of like when you go to get

1018
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: your X rays done at the doctor and then you

1019
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: take an X ray face on, laying the face up,

1020
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: you get an idea of directionality. Does it cross the midline?

1021
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: Those sorts of things. We have that advantage nowadays. They didn't.

1022
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: So at best, it's a guess at this point in

1023
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: tom as to where it actually wind up.

1024
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: Did the actual autopsy provide closure relieving the doctors and

1025
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: attendant surgeons of any responsibility in saving the president? I mean,

1026
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: was there a thought had they done something different, he

1027
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: would not have died, But the autopsy can there was

1028
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: nothing that could have been done.

1029
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: It was actually assessed to be a mortal wound. Look,

1030
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: anything that's been said about these physicians and how they

1031
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: kind of ran their hands over this wound and they're

1032
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: trying to save his life. It's all people being very

1033
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: speculative about what was done wrong and what was done right.

1034
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: You have to measure it by those times how they

1035
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: were limited their ability to make an assessment on a

1036
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: patient back then. But look, I got to tell you something.

1037
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: These guys that were doing this assessment on the President,

1038
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: I would tell you that. Okay, I'll put it to

1039
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: you this way. Let's take a modern day surgeon, a

1040
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: trauma surgeon, and put them into a field hospital in

1041
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three in Gettysburg and have them do physical

1042
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: assessment on a patient first off, in a less than

1043
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: sterile environment and without the aid of any kind of

1044
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: radiographic assessment. It's tough. It's tough. I think that they

1045
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: did the very best that they possibly could. And even

1046
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: if he had survived, because it would appear that his

1047
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: brain stem was left intact. You know, that's why he

1048
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 1: lived is for the link that he did. You know,

1049
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: his chest to still rising and fall in the autonomic

1050
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: nervous system is still intact to a certain degree, breathing,

1051
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: heart beating, all those sorts of things. Did he have

1052
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: Was he conscious? No? No, would he have remained in

1053
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: a vegetative state. Well, yeah, if they could have released

1054
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: the pressure on the skull, on the brain, because the

1055
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: brain is going to continue to swell. Well, they didn't

1056
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: have the tools. They didn't have the medicines that we use,

1057
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: those anti inflammatory things that we apply nowadays to try

1058
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,439
Speaker 1: to keep swelling down. That stuff didn't exist back then.

1059
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: And so they did the best they could with what

1060
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: they had.

1061
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 2: And when everything was said and done, sixteenth President of

1062
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: the United States of America dead, assassinating and a new

1063
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 2: president is worn in, President Johnson.

1064
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with him came came the wrath of what

1065
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: was to be known as reconstruction. I think that probably,

1066
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: and again I know historian reconstruction, I think took on

1067
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: a different, a different tenor than it would have otherwise.

1068
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, you know, was within a month or so

1069
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: after this that John Wilkes Booth is being autopsied. He's

1070
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: been autopsied on the deck of the USS Montac Up

1071
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: in Washington. They had shot him in a barn. The

1072
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: round that he took went between the C four and

1073
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: the C five cervical vertebra, which they retained. They actually

1074
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: kept that they at his autopsy the physicians actually trimmed

1075
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: that out and kept it. You can see it in

1076
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: a museum in DC to this day. He was immobile

1077
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: for about two hours. They say that he lingered for

1078
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: that period of time. Some people have said that he

1079
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: had vocalized things. Other people say that he remained silent

1080
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: through it. One of the famous things was he asked

1081
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: to see his hands right before he died and made

1082
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: some kind of comment like useless or something like that.

1083
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: But when he died, they sewed his body up in

1084
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: an army blanket and hauled him down down, put him

1085
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: on a tugboat and took him almost eighty miles away

1086
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: to the USS Montalk. And here's the big question with Booth,

1087
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: because he had tried to change his appearance. He was

1088
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: known for this mustache they had. Well, he was absent

1089
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: that mustache. When they got him, they took him onto

1090
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: the deck of that boat, laid him out on a

1091
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: carpenter's table, as they put it, and began to autopsy

1092
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: his body there. If you want to get an idea

1093
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: of the attitude of what happened. The physician that directed

1094
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: Lincoln's autopsy was also there for the autopsy of John

1095
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: Wilkes Booth. He showed up to the Navy yard and

1096
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 1: he's a military officer, but he's an army officer, and

1097
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: when he entered onto the deck of that ship, he

1098
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: didn't make his presence known. And that's what you're supposed

1099
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: to do. You're supposed to salute the flag and all

1100
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: those sort of things that the Navy does. He went immediately,

1101
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean immediately to the body and started just kind

1102
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: of he just immediately went in and started doing this

1103
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: autopsy on John Wilkes Booth at this moment time without

1104
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: a lot of fanfare. I mean, they're going at it. Man,

1105
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: They're going to do the autopsy, and that gives you

1106
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: an idea that you know, they were very angry, and

1107
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of I think demonstrated to a certain degree

1108
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: in the way they treated Boot's body. And of course

1109
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: Boot's body after they had done the autopsy and assessed it,

1110
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: he was eventually buried, but his body was moved around

1111
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: and disinturned several times before it finally wound back up

1112
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: with the Booth family. So you've got these two men

1113
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: that literally changed history with Lincoln and Booths both ending

1114
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: ending violently, their lives ending very very violently. Boot's name

1115
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: is still in our lexicon, but maybe it's there for

1116
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: a good reason, to remember the horror that he, through

1117
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: the single action, wrought upon arguably the life of perhaps

1118
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: the best president we've ever known, Abraham Lincoln. I'm Josephcott

1119
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is bodybags.