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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is all ball

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Speaker 1: and uh we got a great guest for His name

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Speaker 1: is Steve Lapis. He's a good friend of mine, of course,

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Speaker 1: the former head coach at Manhattan had Villanova at UMSS

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Speaker 1: and UM. In this part, this is part one, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to his His life story is really amazing, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up in the Bronx in New York. UM. His

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Speaker 1: dad was an immigrant. Wait to hear what his dad

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Speaker 1: did when his dad first saw him play basketball, when

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Speaker 1: he first moved out of the house, Like all of

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Speaker 1: it is like you just you can't fount these these

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Speaker 1: things are so good. Um, I gotta do a pod

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Speaker 1: for you on actual things going on inside of hoop.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I think they'll love this. It's

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Speaker 1: too good. Steve Lappas works for CBS. He was an

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Speaker 1: outstanding coach at Manhattan, led them to twenty five wins

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Speaker 1: in their fourth year and then took Villanova. Uh they

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Speaker 1: were I we played against that team that that lost

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Speaker 1: with Carry Kittles and uh, Chuck Corner Gay and Eric

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Speaker 1: Ebers and Alvin Williams. What a great John Cellistan on

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Speaker 1: a tremendous team. Well, well we'll David dive into how

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Speaker 1: he got the Villanova job all this other stuff without

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Speaker 1: further ado. Here's my man lap. So uh laugh. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think everyone knows the end of the coaching and

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Speaker 1: into the broadcasting call and n c A tournament games.

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Speaker 1: But I'm more fascinated by growing up and what took

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Speaker 1: you from there to here. So you grew up where

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Speaker 1: in New York? I grew Brandon, Washington Heights, right by

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Speaker 1: the drug Washington Bridge, and Upper Manhattan. Okay, so Upper

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Speaker 1: man Uper Manhattan? Um, who are the who are the

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Speaker 1: players at that time? You're coming out in high school?

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Speaker 1: This is where you started kind of throw off all

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Speaker 1: the New York City guys. Who are the guys at

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Speaker 1: that time? Well, at that time, Tiny Archibald was a

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Speaker 1: couple of years older than me, but he was a

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Speaker 1: guy that we looked up to. Ron Behagen was a

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Speaker 1: guy who played for d with Clinton. He was another guy.

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Speaker 1: There was a guy of boys and girls named Ermie

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Speaker 1: Douse and some of the you know, obviously Nate Archibald

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Speaker 1: became a big time playing Ron Behagen played in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: Tom Henderson was another guy who was around and played

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Speaker 1: in the NBA for a long time. So those those

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Speaker 1: were probably the main guys, you know what I mean

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Speaker 1: from the Manhattan Bronx type area. What was the what

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Speaker 1: was the name of the court that you grew up playing,

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Speaker 1: because everybody had every court had a name. I grew

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Speaker 1: up with Dyken Street and Dyken Streets a pretty famous court.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of guys played in the Dykeen

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Speaker 1: projects there. Actually kareem obviously older than he grew up

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Speaker 1: right in those projects. So we played a lot of

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Speaker 1: Dighting Street projects. But you're you're older than Kramer. He's

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Speaker 1: older than you, He's older than me. Okay, So did

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Speaker 1: you like, did you ever see him play pick up

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Speaker 1: when you're a kid? You ever never saw? I did?

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Speaker 1: I did see Power Memorial play two years after he

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Speaker 1: graduated from there, and they were still very They had

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Speaker 1: Searcy len Elmore and Jack Trimble. They were number one

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Speaker 1: high school team in the country after Korean There were

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Speaker 1: number one when he was there too. So I never

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Speaker 1: he's about I'm gonna guess he's probably five or six

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Speaker 1: years older than me. So no, would never never cross paths. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So again and and forgive me if I'm wrong for

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Speaker 1: saying this year in this pod, you're allowed to say

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Speaker 1: whatever part of this is. You know, my dad grew

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Speaker 1: up in the Bronx and then moving out to the Island.

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Speaker 1: His contention always was that New York City is a

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Speaker 1: basketball town and the only reason that that it's still

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Speaker 1: like a Yankees town or Giants or Rangers is just

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Speaker 1: because the basketball hasn't been good, right but this but

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Speaker 1: whoever can get it back to where it was when

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Speaker 1: Red Red Holtzman was coaching the Knicks like that guy,

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Speaker 1: they'll have a ticker tape rate and it will coolly change.

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Speaker 1: So but you were that that you were around during

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Speaker 1: that era, Oh yeah, absolutely so. So the jutasition of

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Speaker 1: now where the Garden is still great, okay, but players

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Speaker 1: go outside the city to go to prep schools, you know,

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Speaker 1: or go or New York in terms of going to college.

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Speaker 1: What was it like back then? Well, then, there's no

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Speaker 1: question that New York was the mecca basketball. Now, the

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Speaker 1: crazy thing about the Knicks is they've only have two

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Speaker 1: titles in the history of the franchise, and they happened

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Speaker 1: within four years of each other. So that is kind

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Speaker 1: of the crazy. So here you have this job that

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Speaker 1: the perception is it's, you know, certainly one of the

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Speaker 1: best jobs in the world in basketball. Yet they haven't

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Speaker 1: really been able to bring one home. Patrick Ewing got close,

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Speaker 1: and pat Riley and Jeff Van Gundy got close. But

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Speaker 1: bottom line is we haven't had a championship is nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three, which is kind of crazy when you think

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Speaker 1: about it. But there's no doubt that it's a basketball time. Now.

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Speaker 1: If you ask me now, I haven't grown up there,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say number one Yankees, number two Nicks if

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Speaker 1: I had to, if you made me put it in

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Speaker 1: or seven they want twenty seven titles. The Yankees are

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Speaker 1: the Yankees, and that's that is never go to Jake,

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Speaker 1: But I would say the Knicks if they're good. But

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Speaker 1: but you don't you don't have and the kids don't

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Speaker 1: play as much pick up as they used to. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but you don't have stickball in the streets anymore. You

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Speaker 1: still do have some you still have a ton of basketball,

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Speaker 1: right and it's not like New York is pumping out

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Speaker 1: baseball players and that that it's it's a there is

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Speaker 1: you know as a basketball town. Okay, So how good

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Speaker 1: were you as a player? I was a started in

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Speaker 1: high school my senior year, came off the bench on

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Speaker 1: the city championship team. My junior year. What what high school?

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Speaker 1: Bronx High School of Science. We were in the B division. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they have the A division that was the big schools,

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Speaker 1: Clinton and those schools, even though we played them in

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Speaker 1: those days. We played in the B division, which was

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Speaker 1: smaller schools, and we won the B Division championship two

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Speaker 1: years in a row. My sophomore year I didn't play

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Speaker 1: at all. My junior year I played some is coming

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Speaker 1: off the bench. Then my senior year I started. We

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Speaker 1: were very good. Probably something doing me starting and then

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Speaker 1: uh I went to c C N Y and I

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Speaker 1: started for a couple of years Division three player. UH

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Speaker 1: average probably seven points and had some assists. No three

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Speaker 1: point shooting. That was the one thing I could do

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Speaker 1: was shoot from pretty far out in those days. But

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Speaker 1: so I was. I was a half pass player and

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Speaker 1: loved it. That's all I wanted to do. What what? What?

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Speaker 1: What was your parents? What were their occupations? Well, my

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Speaker 1: father came from Greece in nineteen twenty seven. He was

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Speaker 1: a florist. He had a flower shop in Jamaica Queens

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Speaker 1: and you know, and my mother is Greek, but she

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Speaker 1: was born here, and that's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: they settled in Washington Heights. It was a big Greek neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: one of the bigger Greek neighborhoods in the country. It

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Speaker 1: was a Greek church there, in Greek school. I went

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Speaker 1: to Greek school from when I was kindergarten to eighth grade.

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Speaker 1: I still read and write Greek because I learned that's

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Speaker 1: when we spoke at home. So, you know, and my parents.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, Doug, because your parents you want

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Speaker 1: to see all your kids gave. My parents did not

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Speaker 1: see me play basketball until I was in college. I

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Speaker 1: was playing for one was like twelve thirteen years old

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Speaker 1: in elementary school and then in high school, and they

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Speaker 1: didn't see me play time was in college as opposed

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Speaker 1: that now, I've seen my kid play every game he

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Speaker 1: ever played, probably or pretty close. So, um, what was

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Speaker 1: your dad like when you're you know, you have this

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Speaker 1: passion for a sport that he clearly doesn't relate to

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Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, Like like my like my grandpa was

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Speaker 1: an accountant and then he became a car dealer. He

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Speaker 1: took over a car dealership, and he thought my dad

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Speaker 1: was nuts for for his love for basketball. Like they

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Speaker 1: actually had him like tested to see if he was

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Speaker 1: if he had something wrong mentally. He's like, no much,

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Speaker 1: just love this sport and all it does for people.

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Speaker 1: What was what was their reaction to your love for basketball? Well,

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Speaker 1: let's understand that he comes here when he's fourteen years old, okay,

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Speaker 1: and so he when never was, never went to high school,

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Speaker 1: so he didn't understand this idea of you play high school,

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Speaker 1: that you play sports in high school. I would go

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Speaker 1: play after school in high school. And thankfully my mother everyone,

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Speaker 1: I said a Greek bol was born here and had

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Speaker 1: brothers who played sports when she was a kid. I

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Speaker 1: would tell him, no, the kids here, he said, when

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Speaker 1: you get a job after school, what is was he

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Speaker 1: go play bass? What is this playing basketball? And my

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Speaker 1: mother said, no, no, the kids here they go to

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Speaker 1: school and they play sports. This is what they do.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, so he understand that. So now I'm like

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Speaker 1: twenty years old and I'm trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: I want to do. So I was I made it

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Speaker 1: in biology. I wanted to be a doctor when I

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Speaker 1: was in college. So what happens. I get a C

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Speaker 1: plus in organic chemistry. So now in those days, Doug,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't make medical school if you don't have all

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Speaker 1: a's in every subject in this country. You'd have to

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Speaker 1: like go to Mexico or somewhere else. And I didn't

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Speaker 1: really want to do that. So I'm like, now what

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Speaker 1: am I gonna do? This is what I've been talking

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Speaker 1: about all these years. I started coaching my brother and

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Speaker 1: his friends at the Greek Church when I was twenty

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Speaker 1: years old, and I, you know, it's pretty cool. I

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Speaker 1: liked this. I love not I want. All I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do is play, even though it was a half

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Speaker 1: as player. I played like eight hours a day in

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Speaker 1: the parks whenever we're looking for a game. That's what

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Speaker 1: I did. And I'm like, you know, why not try

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Speaker 1: to coach and do this? So I remember going to

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Speaker 1: my father to make a long story short, and he

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Speaker 1: asked me in Greek we used to talk to what

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Speaker 1: are you gonna do? But how does that sound great?

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Speaker 1: What is? What are you gonna do? Is saying saying Greek,

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Speaker 1: did that guy in the smith the zois? What are

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Speaker 1: you gonna do with your life. And I said, well, Dad,

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I want to try and

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Speaker 1: coach basketball. And he said why he said, and he

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Speaker 1: said in Greek? He said, are you gonna get by

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Speaker 1: with a ball? That's what he said to me. And

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Speaker 1: I said, well, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and do that. Focus ahead, I become

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Speaker 1: a high school coach. See your first height? Sell, how

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Speaker 1: did you get to high school job? Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: we gotta take this slow. That Well, what happens is

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Speaker 1: so now I so you graduated twenty years old. I

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Speaker 1: know I wasn't one. I was a junior there trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what I wanted a major and do

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't do this bio thing. Okay, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: wasn't really worth the way you switch to p I

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Speaker 1: switched to education. Okay, so I switched education. I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna trying to be a teacher. But now it

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Speaker 1: took me the next year. You go out of college

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Speaker 1: because I had taken all these other classes in sciences.

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Speaker 1: It took me a whole other year to get out.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm gonna be a fifth year guy. I'm

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Speaker 1: and we're commuting to school. It's different in those days.

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Speaker 1: How about this dog course? Fifty two dollars to go

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Speaker 1: to C. C and Y. In those days, if you

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Speaker 1: were in New York City resident, where where was C.

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Speaker 1: C N Y? Right in Harlem? It's right in the

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Speaker 1: middle of Harlem. So from from where you live, it

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Speaker 1: was a fifteen minute bus ride. You did the bus,

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Speaker 1: didn't do the subway? Did the bus the bus? The

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Speaker 1: subway was further. The bus dropped you off right in

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Speaker 1: the corner that where the campus was. So so Steve

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Speaker 1: lap Is years old hopping on the bus. You got

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Speaker 1: the post every day, like what was your what was

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Speaker 1: what was your day of routine? Got to New York

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Speaker 1: Post every day, no doubt, still to this day read

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Speaker 1: it every day and just you know, go there, go

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Speaker 1: to school. Now my fifth year, obviously I didn't play

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Speaker 1: on the team because I was already done with my eligibility.

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Speaker 1: So I was in practice, right and I was just

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Speaker 1: going to school, taking as many course I could in

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Speaker 1: education so I can get get out. Who is your

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Speaker 1: who's your high school coach? My high school coach is

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Speaker 1: a guy named Norman left Woods, who was a tremendous

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Speaker 1: See we were considered I don't want to say it.

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Speaker 1: I guess I said we were considered the real smart

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Speaker 1: school in New York City, so we weren't supposed to

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Speaker 1: have good teams. That this guy was a tremendous coach.

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Speaker 1: We would win games forty two, forty forty six, forty four.

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Speaker 1: That's how Anyway, he's also one of the founding fathers.

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Speaker 1: People don't know this a five star. He was on

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Speaker 1: the first five star staff with Garfinkel at Will Klein.

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Speaker 1: He was in their first tremendous coach. So I played

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Speaker 1: for him in high school. But I'll tell you what, Doug,

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Speaker 1: he put the fear of God in me. I was

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Speaker 1: so scared of I mean scared to death here I

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Speaker 1: what I mean. I think everybody it was a little

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Speaker 1: taking it back by him. You know, I grew up

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Speaker 1: going to this Greek school. I never really got yelled

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Speaker 1: at that much. You know. I was kind of the

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Speaker 1: good kidd. Did what I was supposed to do, and

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Speaker 1: he scared me to death. So he was. He was

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Speaker 1: hard to play for initially, and then you know, it

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Speaker 1: got a little better. But but ironically, when I graduate college,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a job coaching rethink. I voluned. He

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Speaker 1: becomes a Division three head coach, and I becomes volunteer

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Speaker 1: assistant at York College, which is in Jamaica, Queens. So

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Speaker 1: I did that for a year, just helping him, you know,

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Speaker 1: going to practice, trying to recruit a little bit. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: What was he What was he like in terms of

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Speaker 1: his practice planning, in terms of what you guys worked on,

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Speaker 1: because you know, like all of these planted seeds in

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Speaker 1: what made you into an outstanding coach? What was he like?

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Speaker 1: He was we do the same thing every day. He

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Speaker 1: had a system. We ran this like wheel system, and

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Speaker 1: that's what we It was kind of it wasn't as

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Speaker 1: complicated as Princeton, but it's kind of like those Princeton guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, those Prinston guys are like, this is like

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Speaker 1: a religion. Running that stuff is a religion, and this

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Speaker 1: is what we do and that's it and we're doing it.

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Speaker 1: That's how he was with his offense. And it was

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Speaker 1: a very patient offense. Passed cut cut, It was the saying,

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Speaker 1: and we just did every single day in our sleep.

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Speaker 1: We could do it. So his his practices were very

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Speaker 1: basic passing drills. You know, it was different in those days,

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Speaker 1: you know, based baseball passes just passes. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying there's not a place for it today, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know high school coaches dribbling drills. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was like basic fundamentals and run through this offense and

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Speaker 1: play defense like there's no to law. Okay, So then

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Speaker 1: who would you play for? CCN one? And SE's why

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Speaker 1: I played for two guys, three guys. I played for

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Speaker 1: a guy named Ralph Baco who, uh in ninety seven

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Speaker 1: was the leading scorer in the country at Northern or

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Speaker 1: southern Northern Northern Illinois. Really good guy. He's passed away.

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Speaker 1: Then I played for a guy named Jack Camoner who

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Speaker 1: was kind of a legend in the New York area,

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Speaker 1: coached in the Bronx and coached in Westchester Counties, Carsdale Eyes.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know you're a West Coast guy.

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Speaker 1: You remember a guy named John Revelli played at Stanford. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's probably, you know, too old for you to know

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Speaker 1: because you're too young. But and Butch Graves, those are

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Speaker 1: two guys that he had played for him. That one

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Speaker 1: went to Yale alone went to Stanford. He was from

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Speaker 1: Scarsdale High School, and then I played for Floyd Lane,

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Speaker 1: who played on the nineteen fifty c C N White

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Speaker 1: team that won the n c A and an I

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Speaker 1: T Championship. Um, what is there anything of those three

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Speaker 1: guys that you took with you that you said I

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Speaker 1: want to do that or or you organically did. I

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Speaker 1: took a little bit of all of them, to be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, not a basketball perspective, not much, but

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Speaker 1: from a personal perspective and how they dealt with people,

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Speaker 1: how they dealt with situations I tried. All three of

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Speaker 1: those guys that I had in college were really personable,

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Speaker 1: really great guys, and they had great communication skills with

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Speaker 1: the players. And that was one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I saw and I liked because it made me feel

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Speaker 1: Whereas my high school coach was a great coach and

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Speaker 1: we became good friends, I was afraid of him in

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Speaker 1: high school. These guys I wasn't afraid of, And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that's some of the things. And

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Speaker 1: you know, Jack Camerer was a guy who was a

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Speaker 1: tremendous teacher and a little more advanced than Norman left

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Speaker 1: Woods was. It was my high school coach, but a

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Speaker 1: guy who could really break things down and like take

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Speaker 1: a take a game plan and make it into drills

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Speaker 1: of Okay, we gotta do this to guard this because

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Speaker 1: so he's the one who gave me my first experience

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Speaker 1: with that kind of stuff. Um, okay, so you get

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Speaker 1: done and you you volunteer at York right. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: York's in Jamaica queens. Your dad's flower shops and Jamaica queens.

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Speaker 1: How you are you making money? Are you working for him?

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Speaker 1: Are you doing anything that or you're just simply grinding

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Speaker 1: with hoops. No. I get my first teaching job in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx at a Greek school um called the Greek

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Speaker 1: American Institute, And I was making five thousand dollars a

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Speaker 1: year and I would teach, get out at to thirty

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Speaker 1: three o'clock and drive the Jamaica Queens every day. Now

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Speaker 1: we didn't have a car. That was the first car

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Speaker 1: our family had, was the one that I had when

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Speaker 1: I graduated college. Uh. My father took the subway to

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Speaker 1: Jamaica every day. Was an hour, three subway, three trains

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Speaker 1: every each way, every day. He did it for thirty

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Speaker 1: five years. And you know, Doug, it's funny. His day

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Speaker 1: off was two day. Imagine Tuesday, Like everybody's off Saturday

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Speaker 1: and Sunday, his day off was Tuesday because in the

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Speaker 1: flower business, people at weddings, people had things on Saturdays

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Speaker 1: and Sunday, so he was open. And so this is

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Speaker 1: what it's amazing what these guys did that came from

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Speaker 1: the other side, the work ethic and what they had

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Speaker 1: to do to so you know what it was. It

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Speaker 1: was a and I don't want me to be a

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Speaker 1: get on a soapbox, but life consimpler. They they weren't

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Speaker 1: worried about how we're gonna eat. We're worried about I

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Speaker 1: want this car, I want this house or no. It's

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Speaker 1: very basic. We need to work. So that weekend live period,

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Speaker 1: and that's what it was. Fox Sports Radio has the

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00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 1: best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of

347
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within

348
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app search f s R to

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Speaker 1: listen live. You know, my my, my, my grandpa. He

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Speaker 1: no one had been the college and he couldn't afford college.

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Speaker 1: Also c c N Y and so what he did

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Speaker 1: was he and a buddy. I don't know if they

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Speaker 1: rented a truck or at least a truck or bought it,

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Speaker 1: bought a truck like one of those uh box box trucks, right,

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Speaker 1: and they would go to the docks and they would

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Speaker 1: buy fish okay at you know whatever, you know, ungodly

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Speaker 1: time in the morning when when the when the fish

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Speaker 1: would come in, and then they set up the counts

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Speaker 1: at different restaurants and then they would sell the fish

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Speaker 1: to the restaurants. So that's so he would take night

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Speaker 1: school and then wouldn't go to sleep, would simply go

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Speaker 1: and get this box truck, get the fish, and then

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Speaker 1: do the fish and then sleep in the afternoon. And

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Speaker 1: that's how he paid his way through through c C

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Speaker 1: N Y and became an accountant, and then he became

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Speaker 1: a card dealer because as an accountant, he looked at

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Speaker 1: people's and like, you know, they couldn't pay him. So

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Speaker 1: he'd take one businesses that he thought could make makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a similar thing. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: I just figure it out right, how and how can

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Speaker 1: I put things on the table. It wasn't And and

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Speaker 1: he too just like just like your dad, like he

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Speaker 1: thought my dad was crazy, Like you really my master's

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Speaker 1: degree from Colombia And when you want to coach basketball, Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: what he wanted to do. A matter of fact, in

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Speaker 1: one he was the head coach at the w Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: and they were going to Division three. They were Division

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Speaker 1: one to Division three. So he walks and my grandpa

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Speaker 1: we lived with him for a year in in Hewlett,

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Speaker 1: New York. We lived with them. My grandpa wanted my

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Speaker 1: dad to take over one of his car dealerships, just

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Speaker 1: the one on Long Island, Like it was a layup,

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Speaker 1: you know, just I mean a running a car dealership

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Speaker 1: that's already been up and going for twenty five years

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Speaker 1: and really successful. And my Dad's like, how about we

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Speaker 1: buy the new Jersey nets for one million dollars? And

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Speaker 1: my grandpa, again, this is an eighty one is before Burden,

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Speaker 1: Magic took take took the lead off, Lee offf My

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00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: grandpa count looked at the books and said, this is

390
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: a disaster. No one should ever, you know, buy an

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Speaker 1: NBA team, Like it makes no sense financial right, But

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Speaker 1: the point is it's the same sort of work ethic

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Speaker 1: where that we we we don't have the perspective of

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Speaker 1: what it was like. We just don't. Okay, So you're

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Speaker 1: you're you're teaching at a Greek School. You're courch coaching

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Speaker 1: at York. Okay, that season ends, Um, this is two

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Speaker 1: years now that you have been playing and you've been

398
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Speaker 1: coaching right then? One then I become I find out

399
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Speaker 1: and I live in Washington Heights, which right across the

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Speaker 1: bridge from Fort Lee, New Jersey. And I had a

401
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: couple of friends who used phony addresses to go to

402
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: Fort Lee High School instead of the local high school

403
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: in Washington Nights, which wasn't very good. So we had

404
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: some connection there. They needed a JV coach. I take

405
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Speaker 1: the job at Fort Lee High School as the JV

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Speaker 1: coach and that's what I did that So that was

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Speaker 1: my first paying job. So you're now are you now?

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Speaker 1: Are you teaching at Fortly High School? You still teaching

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Speaker 1: Greek School? And drive the Greeks go in the Bronx

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Speaker 1: near co Op City, driving to uh Fortly High School

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Speaker 1: every day? Coach? What kind of cars? I had a

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Speaker 1: Honda Civic. Yeah. I had to have a small car

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Speaker 1: because it was it heights. You can't park well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Honda Civic because what what what? What? What year? What

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Speaker 1: years is? Oh? This is now uh nineteen sim It's

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Speaker 1: amazing because when we moved to California. In one my

417
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Speaker 1: dad became text Winners assistant at Lombie State and the

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Speaker 1: car that he gave him recruiting was a nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: six brown Honda Civic hatchdown mine was like a brownish

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Speaker 1: gold You know what, here's the thing. If you're gonna

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Speaker 1: live it, now you gonna understand. He's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: We were immigrant kids. I lived home till I was eight.

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Speaker 1: You know now my kids have been OUs is their eighteen.

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Speaker 1: I didn't go away to college. We lived home till

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Speaker 1: we got married. You know what I mean. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of how it was. Um bedroom right, like you want

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Speaker 1: to went to Stanley here, Well, I I shared my

428
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: brother till I was twenty eight, who was five years

429
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: younger than me. Yes, really had a two bedroom apartment. Okay,

430
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: so this is why you dive in because these things

431
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Um okay, So so you're at

432
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: Fort Lee as the JB coach. Who's the varsity coach?

433
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: A guy named Chris Anorado. What was he like? Good guy?

434
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: Good guy? You know he was a little bit older

435
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: than me, not by me. I was twenty four. Now

436
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: I'm twenty four years old. Uh, and so he was,

437
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, good guy treated me good. You know. It

438
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: was did you help up? You help him with the

439
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: varsity or you only Yeah, I was kind of like

440
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: the bars. It was really like he had an assistant

441
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: under you were the JV coach. You do a JV

442
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: coach and you were one of the varsities. But he

443
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: had a real assistant, you know what I mean. It

444
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: was with him all the time. I was because I

445
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: was practicing with them, but I helped him out somewhat. Yeah,

446
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: I helped him out something. Yeah. So now this is

447
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: your own team though, first time, and I'm getting paid.

448
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: I got playing hundred bucks. What are you running? What

449
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm running the stuff that I did

450
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: in high school that doing the wheel, doing the wheel

451
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: and winning with when we won games, we were like

452
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, well like I think we were like fourteen

453
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: and eight saving something like that, and you know we're

454
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: running the wheel and we're winning games six and you know,

455
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: playing smart, not turning it over, just running the wheel,

456
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: playing solid, and you know that's that's kind of what

457
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: we did. But on no siety is I don't know

458
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: if you remember what you do? Remember sure that bridge

459
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: Gate thing with the Christie and the Mayor Affortly. Well,

460
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: the Mayor Affortly was on my JV thatt Mark style

461
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: he was. He played for me on that JVT. Anyway,

462
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Okay, So you get done with that year.

463
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: Then I get a call from I said I had

464
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: three college coaches from Jack Cameroner. Jack Cameroner had left

465
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: C C and Y and took over as the head

466
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: coach at Harry Has Truman High School in the Bronx,

467
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: and he had left there and left his assistant the job.

468
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: His assistant now I'm just complicated, tears his a c L.

469
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: Like three days before practice is supposed to start, he's

470
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: taking a leave of absence. They need somebody to coach

471
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: Truman High School for the year. So I said, what

472
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: the heck, I'm a JV coach. I'll go. You know,

473
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'll do next year, but coach

474
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: to varsity this year. There and that wen't do it.

475
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: So that call really changed my life. That one call.

476
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: This guy tearing his a c L, pull selling town.

477
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: I'll never forget his name, tears his a c L.

478
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 1: I come in, I'm coaching Truman High School for the year,

479
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: which was we had a really good team in you know,

480
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: the New York City Class A and the Bronx, and uh,

481
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: I loved it. It was great. Just so now you're

482
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: community so much shorter, right because I'm literally a mile

483
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: away from Truman High School. So so now you're now

484
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: now it's close, and now you're coaching at the higher

485
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: level that you want to. You still run the wheel,

486
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: still running the wheel, ran the wheel throughout my high

487
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: school career. Okay, you know, let me say one thing, Doug.

488
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: It's and I will probably get to this at some point.

489
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: It's amazing how much I didn't know about basketball when

490
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: I was a high school coach. It's amazing, like you

491
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: were so much. I didn't know you, well, I didn't

492
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: know you kind of from Afar when you were a kid,

493
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: but you were so much more well versed in offenses.

494
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: I knew nothing. And then we'll get to when I

495
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: learned something. I know nothing. I just been with my

496
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: high school coach or one of my college goes. I

497
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: have no assistant and an X and O. I didn't experiment.

498
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: This is what I did. Period don't really Well, it's

499
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: it's interesting because that's what you know I mean it's

500
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: very normally like you you run what you know, right,

501
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: coach what you know. But I used to we used

502
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: to go to high school games. My dad. My dad

503
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: wasn't as into X and O's, you know, he was

504
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: he that he was just you know, he would do

505
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: the Ralph Miller one for the the love because he

506
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: coached a year with Ralph and he just wanted guys

507
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: to play hard and I get highball, screen, share the ball, whatever,

508
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: Whereas I've always watched basketball, and I had a high

509
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: school coach that I had to high school coaches, but

510
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: one which we actually learned almost all the basic offenses

511
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: so we knew how to defend them. Like one day

512
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: we would practice, we'd run flex because so many teams

513
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: ran flex, you know, and we never actually ran flex,

514
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: but we just run it for that day, so you

515
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: know the offense and then if you know it well enough,

516
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: you know the intricacies out of Anyway, my dad and

517
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: I used to watch high school games and I played

518
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: like a game where I try and figure out how

519
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: long would take for me to figure out what they're running, right,

520
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: because everybody ran a pattern because we've gone away from

521
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: kind of motion or are they running motion whatever. So

522
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: that's where that And then I played for so many

523
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: different people. You know, when you start to play professionally,

524
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: you played for so many different people and there's so

525
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: many different ways of doing the same thing that if

526
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: you're paying attention. I remember my last year playing in France,

527
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: I played for a young African coach and he was

528
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: we were talking strategy or someone. I was just like listening, man,

529
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: just tell me what you want and I'll do it.

530
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: You don't have to like just tell me basically, like

531
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? And I've seen it all,

532
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: Like I've done it all. Do you want me to

533
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: look to shoot and score? Do you want to run

534
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: your office? We want to get the ball to tell

535
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: them what you like to run and we'll run it.

536
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: And that's it. You have to worry about nothing. You

537
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: were about everything else and I'll just do it. And

538
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: that was what. It took me a long time to

539
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: get that confidence to say that to somebody, whereas a

540
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: lot of times when I was in college it was

541
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: I still had a fear of God from those those coaches. Okay,

542
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: so how did it go at Truman High School? Well,

543
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: the first year we lose in the championship, the Bronx Championship,

544
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: so we get that's like the equivalent of I guess, uh,

545
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the quarterfinals of the City Championship and

546
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: we lost to Stevenson High School. Uh Fred Brown. I

547
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember Fred Brown of of Georgetown

548
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: fame who threw the past to Sam to uh James

549
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Worthy at the end of the Georgiantown game. He played

550
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: the Stevens in high school and we lost to them

551
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: in the Bronx Championship game my first year, and I

552
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: loved it. I mean it was great coach at that level.

553
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: And I my best player was a kid named Benji

554
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: Bowman who went to Florida Southern and played for how Whistle.

555
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 1: They won the National Division to National championship with him

556
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: as the point guard like two years later. So you

557
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: know it was. It was a very good high school team,

558
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: no doubt. Then then we had a couple of years

559
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: that weren't great. Wait wait, so you stayed there, so

560
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: the I didn't come back. The guy never came back.

561
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: The guy let me, I'm sorry I didn't explain this.

562
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: The guy ended up applying for full disability because he

563
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: got hurt on the job, so he couldn't come back

564
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: and just coach because he was getting disability. So they

565
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: give me the job. You get disability for an a

566
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: c L. Yeah, for any imagine that for an a

567
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: c L. Because he got hurt on the job and

568
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: got disability for that's a good point. Yes he did.

569
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: So now I get the job. Next year we make

570
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: the playoffs. The year after we don't make the playoffs anyway,

571
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: so I'm skipping ahead in my fourth year. You know,

572
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna be pretty good, pretty good. And you know,

573
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: one of the kids comes up to me and says, coach,

574
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: and I just want to tell you there's a kid

575
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: he's gonna be he's coming into the school. He's transferring

576
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: from Rice High School, and he's he's pretty good. So

577
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: that's great. You know whence he comes out tomorrow, he's

578
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: gonna start his first day of school at Druman High School. Whatever, Okay,

579
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: come come to the gym. He comes to the gym,

580
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: I swear to God that he goes up and down twice.

581
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: And I turned to my assistant coach, who was a

582
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: friend of mine volunteered. I said, yo, I think that's

583
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: what a pro looks like when he's fifteen years old.

584
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: It was Rod Strickland, and I'm like this tude. First

585
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: of all, he was like five nine, like a hundred

586
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: thirty pounds. But I had never seen anybody bounced that

587
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: ball like this guy. But it was different. It was

588
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: it was Yeah, I've seen great ball handlers in my time. No, No,

589
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: this was something completely different. The way this kid bounced

590
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: the ball. He went where everywhere. We went to a drill, Doug,

591
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, in the half court circle. This guy, I

592
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: would have two guys in that. You have to stay

593
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: in the circle at hare court. Two guys could take

594
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: it from, could take from two guys that are just

595
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: there trying to take the ball from. He could dribble

596
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: the ball half an inch off the ground. He could

597
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: dribble it to feet off the ground. I never saw

598
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: anything like a ball forget about both hands. You know,

599
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: I always tell people, they say, as he's I'll tell

600
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: you about Rosherville. The same thing with any sport. At

601
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: one point, he was giving a ball for the first

602
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: time in his life. Whether he's two, three, four, or five,

603
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how old it was. And the first

604
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: time he bounced it. He could bounce that thing he

605
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: just could bounce it and this kid was unbelievable. So

606
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: we had, you know, we make the playoffs that year,

607
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: we're losing the first round. Then the next year's which

608
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: ends up being my last year at Truman High School,

609
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: we go eight and to twenty seven and three. We

610
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: win the New York City Championship and the New York

611
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: State Championship. And I'm gonna throw something else in there,

612
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: because Rod Rod was a junior that year and he

613
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: was our only Division one player. He was obviously a pro.

614
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: And we were talking about my parents. My father came

615
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: to that City championship game. He had to be the

616
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: proudest guy in the history of the worlds he would come.

617
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: He was at St. John's University, sold out and he

618
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: was there and he was on the court with us

619
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: after the He so, here's a guy who went from

620
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: not knowing this and when I was coaching at Villanova

621
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: in those places, he'd have articles in his pocket. Then

622
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: he showed his friends, you know what I mean. So

623
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: he had come full circle about seeing what this wasn't

624
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: but started really you know, that night at St. John's

625
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: he saw like, Wow, this is this, this is something

626
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: that this guy is doing, you know, and so that

627
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: we won the city and state championship. My last year

628
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: a Truman school, I went to Villanova is the uh

629
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: restricted earnings coaches. They called him the guy who, you know,

630
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: could only make a certain amount of money. So how

631
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: did that conversation take place? Well, you know, the funny

632
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: thing was, I had worked coach massa Mino's camp a

633
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: couple I knew well all this time that I'm at

634
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: Truman High School, I'm working five star because I know,

635
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: you gotta make connections, doun. I am sending resumes all

636
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: over the country to be a graduate assistant anywhere. I'll

637
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: go to Lehigh, I'll go to I'll go to California,

638
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: win in nobody even yet I never even got answers.

639
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: So I was doing. I knew what I needed to

640
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: do to get into college. I wanted to get into college,

641
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: and I knew what I need to do. I needed

642
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: to either be a graduate assistant, get to know some

643
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: people or something. So I started working camps in the summertime.

644
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: So I worked coach Massamino's camp. I got to know him.

645
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: But the big thing was, now, all of a sudden,

646
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: all these people are coming at the end of that year.

647
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: They want to talk to me about Rod Strickland, Joey

648
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: my every coach, and now this kid went and you know,

649
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: I never I haven't seen this Doug, a kid that

650
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: was on nobody's radar none to being like the guy

651
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: everybody wanted. I never saw that. In like six months,

652
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: nobody heard of him. And then all of a sudden,

653
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: is the guy everybody wants. Anyway, So I got to

654
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: meet all these guys, and Coach Massmino came in and

655
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: talk to me about Rod, and we had a great

656
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I had interviewed for the assistant coaching job at Columbia

657
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: that I wanted so desperately. I'll never forget, I hinted,

658
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: and I was telling him, you know, coach, I just

659
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: interviewed like two days ago at Columbia for an assistance

660
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: job and he said, okay, as great, So you didn't

661
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: think ohing of it. Like two weeks later, Paul Cormier,

662
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: who was on his staff, gets the head coaching job

663
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: at Dartmouth, and Mitch bar Girl, who was his topassistant,

664
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: calls me and says, hey, you know, we have a

665
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: job open. Are you interested? He said, not, only pays

666
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars. Listen, I don't care if I got

667
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: to pay you. I'm interested. Are you kidding me? So? Okay,

668
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: So coach Mass. I meet coach Mass at the Princetonian Diner.

669
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: We have that's where he interviewed. We have a great talk.

670
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: I think it went great. Go home. I had just

671
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: been we had just been married, you know, two years,

672
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 1: and uh I go home. I tell Harriet, I said, Harry,

673
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm telling you this might be it. I can't believe this.

674
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get all these jobs at these low

675
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: level places. Now this is in Villanova, then not what is?

676
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: He had been to three lead eights, so it's not

677
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: like they had a great history and tradition. Jack Craft

678
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: went to the finals against U C. L A and

679
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: nineties seven. Bill Nova was big more North Carolina, Bruce

680
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: big time. So he says, I want you to come

681
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: down with your wife Sunday, and well, I want to

682
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: meet her. So I'm like, I'm gonna I gotta beginning

683
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: his job. Why do you want to be my wife.

684
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: We're down there eight hours the whole day, we have

685
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: a great time, the whole thing. I'm very ready to leave.

686
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: He says, all right, I'm gonna call you this week

687
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: we leave. We are on clouding and he also got

688
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: understand we were two kids from New York City, had

689
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: never left New York in a lies ever. And so

690
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: now I'm waiting. First week, you don't call, second week,

691
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: you don't call, third week. You know, I'm like pupping down.

692
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't believe this, I said. I thought,

693
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: I'm getting this job. Somebody else gotta be involved in

694
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: this job. Why why is it taking so long? I

695
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: get up the nerve to call him, and you know,

696
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: when you were talking to him, he was like, I

697
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: do one of these, like coach. I don't mean to

698
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: bother you, but I just was curious. Any chance you

699
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: have an idea. I'm trying to like, do it, soft

700
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: show it. He said, I'll know next week. But next

701
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: week comes nothing. Week after I buy, I buy an

702
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: answering machine. In those days, like answering machines were like

703
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: high tech. I buy an answer machine to make sure

704
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: I don't miss this call. Finally calls. I got bad

705
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 1: news for you. I'm giving the job to somebody else.

706
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: I was crushed, crushed. I've never been I don't know

707
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: I've been crushed since then, There's no question never that

708
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: was as big as crushing as I've ever taken in

709
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: my life. He offered the job to Jerry Wayne. Right,

710
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: So I'm crushed. I don't even want to go out

711
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: for like days. Harry tells me, listen, forget this bologne.

712
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 1: He go back, start working camps again. You'll get another

713
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: chance somewhere. The Columbia job didn't working out. In high

714
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: school job, no, I haven't quit my highchool job. Oh no,

715
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: I still had my high school job. But it was

716
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: like I was so close to the big time. Yet

717
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: two weeks later, I'm working in Manhattan, man in colleges camp,

718
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: ironically enough, and my wife calls me on the pay

719
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: phone because there were no cell phones. Then called on

720
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: the pay phone and says, you know, I got a message.

721
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: I think it's coach Massimino. All rights it played for me,

722
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: and he says, you, god damn Greek, you're still interested?

723
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: Call me. I'm like, it's like, honestly, look, it's like

724
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: you gotta reprieve, like you was so crushed and now

725
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: it's staying. I call him back and said, you wanted

726
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: to still want the job? I said yes, He said

727
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: it's yours. Jerry Waynewright turned it down, and now that's

728
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: how I end up getting there. Long story, it's amazing.

729
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: So so you just pack up all your stuff, okay,

730
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: and you moved to close to campus. It's a beautiful

731
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: area where no, no, we couldn't, we couldn't live back

732
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: close to games. How about this, the restrict their earnings.

733
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: Coach before me, who got elevated now to a nice,

734
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: good paying job for those days, certainly you know what

735
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: I mean, gave me his He had this car that

736
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: used to call the bomb. The players still tease me about.

737
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: It was a nineteen eight in power. Okay. So, um,

738
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: you show up at Villanova. What was that like? What's

739
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: it like? Raleigh Massimina? What was it? What was it like?

740
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something I am. Okay. First of all,

741
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: he used to tease me all the time. We went

742
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: out to dinner the first night I was on the

743
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: job with the staff. He always believed in dinners with

744
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: the wives and everybody. And I'll never a good sitting

745
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: next to me and he goes, I just want you

746
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: to know. He points his finger, like right in my face.

747
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: You just went from being Mickey Mouse to Mickey mantle

748
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, I hear you. I know that.

749
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: And he used to he used to teach us, to

750
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: call you a high school Harry. You would teach me

751
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: because I knew Doug. These guys would sit in the

752
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: office and X and O, and I swear to gun.

753
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: By the time I figured out where the first past

754
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: one they raised it diagram and something else, I was

755
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: lost completely. That's what I'm trying to tell you about

756
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: you your knowledge. I had no knowledge they were X

757
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: and oh, and I didn't even know what they were

758
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: talking about. And I said, well, I got a lot.

759
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: I got me a lot of work to do here,

760
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. So I realized very quickly

761
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: what I didn't know. And if you don't know what

762
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: you don't know, you ain't never gonna learn it. And

763
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: so I was. I got the sneakers. I used to

764
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: drive two hours to pick up Coach massamenos cheese. Uh

765
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: you know what, wait, hold on his cheese. He had

766
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: a certain you know, he was a pasta freak, and

767
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: he had to have this certain cheese on his pasta

768
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: every so every so often. I had to drive to like,

769
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, Allentown, Pennsylvania out that way and to get

770
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: him this cheese from this particular Italian stuff store before

771
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: it was a Pecorino Romano. Now you no, no, no, Um,

772
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what we get. I forget the name

773
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: of it. Forget the name of it. But yeah, so

774
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: he had to have the specific cheese. So every so

775
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: often I'd have to make the right to pick up

776
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: the cheese. Um, get the sneakers. I did the academics.

777
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: I did the academics and uh talk, but I really

778
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: Doug knew nothing. We would do Scotti reports and he

779
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: he always wanted to make sure you weren't allowed to

780
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: have notes when you were an assistant coach, like you

781
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: better know that whole thing by heart, and you better

782
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: have every and one thing about him. He was the

783
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: film freak. So if there was something that report, if

784
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: someone wasn't in that report, that dude would find it

785
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: because he was watching tape after tape after tape. He

786
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: would find it. And if it wasn't in there, you

787
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: were dead man. Okay. So nine four your first year,

788
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: okay at Villanova, Um, you had but ed Pittney Blaine Blaine,

789
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: you had Harold Pressy, Gary McClain. Right, this is this

790
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: is the team. This is the team. But this is

791
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: your first year college basketball. Okay, I think all anybody

792
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: knows is one game, right is one game? What was that?

793
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: You're actually like, well, you know, we we underachieved that

794
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: people expected. I mean, we were nine seats, so there

795
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: you go, you know what I mean. So people we

796
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: we were we underachieved for the year. And coach Mass

797
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: was disgusted with these guys. He was, really, how about this.

798
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: We played Pittsburgh on national television on CBS, last game

799
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: of the regular season. We are getting drilled with down twenty,

800
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: and at halftime he comes in the locker room and says,

801
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: you guys, got three minutes. You don't do something, you're

802
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: out for the rest of the game. Sure enough, three

803
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: minutes out. Everybody national TV. You don't care. Everybody's sitting

804
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: on the bench. We get drilled. We go to New York,

805
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: now the Big East Tournament. We play St. John. We

806
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: win the first game. Forget who we played. We play St. John.

807
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: Second game, drilled. Chris Mullen and those guys Walter Barry

808
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: killed us. We go to his house after the game.

809
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: He said, thank god, I got one more game with

810
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: these guys. Because they're driving me nuts. I can't they

811
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: go on to win the championship. As he said, I

812
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: got one more game because he felt like we're gonna

813
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: make it, but just barely, because those space if you're

814
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: a nine C, he could just barely made it. Isn't

815
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: a large team, the only sixty four teams then, and uh,

816
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: we thought it was gonna be short. And you know what,

817
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: Doug is funny because people tell me you need momentum

818
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: coming into the tournament. Oh no, no, you need momentum

819
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: during the turn. Okay, so your first game, it was

820
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: the two point game with Dayton. You guys are eight

821
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: C by the way, nine to nine, they were enough.

822
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: What do you what do you remember about the game?

823
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: I remember, first of all, Don donoher was a great coach,

824
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: and he's he was kind of low in the philosophy

825
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: that I was telling you about with my wheel and

826
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: the way my this guy there was no clock. You

827
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: knew you were and we're by the way, we're playing

828
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: them on their floor. We're playing Dayton at Daton on

829
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: their home court. So now we know we're in for

830
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: a battle because these guys, you know, the way they play,

831
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: they don't make mistakes. They're gonna run the system all

832
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: the way through. Tight game. Twenty seconds they go, they

833
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: got the they're holding for the last shot. We make

834
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: a steal and we make a layup with like five

835
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: seconds deal win the game. Otherwise that home they're holding

836
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: for the last shot on their home court. We make

837
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 1: a steel and make a layp We went. Next game,

838
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: now we're feeling like, yeah, you know, like you said,

839
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: we were the eight day were the nine toss up

840
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: game we want? Thankfully. Now we're playing Roy Tarpley, Antoine Hubert, Michigan.

841
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: They were the number one seed, and we played them

842
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: in the second game and we play unbelievable. They gonna

843
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: understand Twayne McClain was a pro, Pickney pro, Presley pro.

844
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: We had a good team, we just didn't play great

845
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 1: that year. We beat Michigan. Now we're starting to feel like, WHOA,

846
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: something's going on here. Next game Len Bias, Wow, Maryland.

847
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: He had toured we played them during the regular season.

848
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: He had had like thirty five. The only game of

849
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: his career I believe where he was not in double

850
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: figures was that NC Tournament game. We were defensively, we

851
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: were unbelievable. Was that the last game was that the

852
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: last game of his life. They express that was his

853
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: That was his first year. His next year we played

854
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: him again, so though that was his first year of

855
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: what what was he like? If you were if you

856
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: were to give the analysis like to today analysis that

857
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: he was what is he? He was the best player,

858
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: like the best player I had ever seen up and

859
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: he was the best player that I had ever seen

860
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: up to that point. You know, well him and Patrick Ewing,

861
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 1: because Patrick Ewing was in the Big East in those days.

862
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: He was I always felt like in my lifetime, Patrick's

863
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: you know right there. So he's not what six eight

864
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: six nine six six could You know in those days

865
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: when you saw six a six nine got a good shoot,

866
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: you never saw that these guys you six a six nine,

867
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 1: you're playing inside in those days, no three point line.

868
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: Every think this guy can step out and make seventeen footers.

869
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: You could put it on the floor. Yeah, you felt

870
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: like this guy is gonna be an all time great,

871
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. I mean he put thirty five

872
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: on us a couple of times in regular season games. Okay,

873
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: so you beat Maryland, then who's next? Now you gotta

874
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: say it? So here I am who would have died

875
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: to be the assistant coach of Columbia. And now we

876
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 1: play in North Carolina to go to the final four.

877
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: So they got Kenny Smith, they got you know, I

878
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: for got who the other obviously they have guys. You

879
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: know what I made it. So we're playing then to

880
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: go to final fourt and I'll never forget this dog.

881
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: So we're sitting outside by the way. You forgot that

882
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 1: you beat Michigan. You played Dayton and then Maryland. Okay,

883
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: so you played Carolina. Carolina has Kenny Smith, Brad Doherty,

884
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: Joe Wolf, Buzz Peterson, Dave Popson, h Ranzino Smith, Curtis

885
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: Hunter from Warren Martin. Okay, good, but not not like

886
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: an all time team. You guys smelled him. We're down

887
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: ten at half time or eight a half. We're down

888
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: at half time. By year, down five and half seventeen seventeen.

889
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: You outscore him thirty nine two in the second half.

890
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: Did Steve Lapp has come in as a restricted earning

891
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: this guy and make the adjustments? No, I think it's

892
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: funny thing go ruling. Massima made one of his most

893
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: famous speeches at half time. The guy, guys were all

894
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: up tight, and they weren't. He said, you know what,

895
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: you guys, all I want right now is a big

896
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: poll of pasta with liguini and clam sauce. That's what

897
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: I want right now, and that I swear to God

898
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: said it a half time and everybody started laughing. Whatever.

899
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: Now is that why we went out and beat the

900
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 1: heck out of the second? I don't know, but that's

901
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: what he said. He's the thing. Before the game, we're

902
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: sitting outside the locker room with the coaches. We're talking

903
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: and who's coming down the hallway towards Dean Smith? Not

904
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: for me. I'm like, this is ridiculous. I was cooking

905
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: high school last year. Dean Smith walks down. He says, Hey,

906
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: Hi Roley, Hi Mitch. She knew the assistance him Mark.

907
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: He know me. I never met him, said hey, high coach.

908
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, Dean Smith called me coach. Oh my god,

909
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm beside him. We're playing North Carolina, go

910
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: to final four. Last year was in the Bronx and

911
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: you know what, we're playing the Lemon High School and

912
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: sure enough we played great. Now we're going to the

913
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: Final four Alexican to Kentucky course. Famously there's three big

914
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: easte tames. The other one other than Georgetown, was St.

915
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: John's that had Chris Smullen, that had Walter Walter Berry

916
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: March Jackson like that was at all time, all time

917
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: teams all time. So you're getting ready for the finals

918
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: and you're gonna play Georgetown. Now you played them what

919
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: three times previously to that year, but twice or three

920
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: times every year while Patrick was there and Edie pick

921
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: he was there, so we were there was no all factor.

922
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: They beat us by once by two and once by

923
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 1: six that year, close one possession games. Role. He played

924
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: those teams great every time and beat him the year

925
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: before once at the buzzer. So our guys like pick

926
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: the youing what you gotta I think I think if

927
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: somebody else, uh Doug played Georgetown from somewhere else in

928
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: the country, they were intimidating, but they weren't intimid dating.

929
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: Does We played him every year? Eddie picked me as

930
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: a software at twenty seven points, at twenty two rebounds

931
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: against Patrick Ewing any game, so he knew he could

932
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: play against Patrick. Yeah, Patrick's better, and there's no question,

933
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: but you know, we knew we could play. So I

934
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: know they call it the greatest episode of all time,

935
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: but I gotta be honest with you. We thought we

936
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: could win. We never were like, wow, this is gonna

937
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: be no. We said if we do this, this and this,

938
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: we can win. Now, the fact is we shot sev

939
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: one by two free till life was that. How did

940
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: you keep him off the free till line? Zone? Played

941
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: him all zone. They were not a good jump shooting team.

942
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't a good zone coach either. And you know

943
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: what the funny thing was Patrick as great. You know,

944
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: it's funny Patrick. He made a crazy transformation because in

945
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: college he was a defensive force, you know, dominating games defensively. Yeah,

946
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: but people forget that about Elijah are right, Like Elijah

947
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: Onan is known for the dream shake. When he was

948
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: in college, all I did was dunking block shots, right,

949
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: That's Patrick did. He became a much better offensive player.

950
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: You know, in the NBA. He never made these shots

951
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: that he made the NBA. When you were at NOVED,

952
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: I was at Notre Dame. We played them and we

953
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: had never practiced zone as a team. A day of

954
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: practice the day before he played Georgetown, we put in

955
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: a little two three zone and we nearly beat him.

956
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: It was the same, and it was it wasn't that

957
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: he wasn't Every coach has his strengths and weaknesses. I

958
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: don't feel like he was a great zone coach. You know.

959
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: They were incredibly physical, they were tough minded, they played hard.

960
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: They played hard like those guys played hard, all right.

961
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: And and they weren't talkers, right, I didn't feel like

962
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: they were talking. They weren't timid, but they weren't intimidateing

963
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: because they were talking trash right like. But I didn't

964
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: feel like there was anything special about what he did

965
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: against his own and they just first guy that got

966
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: it shot him. So you win this game. It's your

967
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: first year coaching in college, okay, and you you guys

968
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: beat Lefty right, uh uh, Let's meet Steve Fisher and

969
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean not uh Freeder? Right, be Donna her at

970
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: Dayton at Dayton, okay, and then you and you beat

971
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: Dean Smith and now you beat John Thompson and Pat Ewing.

972
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: You guys win a national title. Well for you, what

973
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: are your personal memories? When that buzzer sounds, you look

974
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: out that you got sixty six and they got sixty four. Well,

975
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: the funny thing is they have that famous clip where

976
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: as soon as the game's over, on like the first

977
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: guy that gets coach man. So that a little bit

978
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: that well living in for me, as they say, you know,

979
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: but just it was surreal, like it's like it did

980
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: you know, it feels like it didn't happen sometimes, but

981
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: obviously it did. I remember walking to the press County

982
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: coach mass afterwards, you know, he's going to meet the media,

983
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 1: and I said, I was posting his chop saying what's

984
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: so hard about this? He clunched me in the arms

985
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: are So I will tell your memory I have is

986
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: there was a Sports Illustrade article right where I think

987
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: it was Dwayne McClean, right, he admitted to using using

988
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 1: coke like throughout the tournament. Gary McClain, Oh, Gary Clay,

989
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Gary mclett, not not doing Gary mcclett. Um

990
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: as as a young coach, right, the young coach, you're

991
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: supposed to be the eyes and years and know what's

992
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: going on, Like did you know any of this stuff

993
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: was going on? Boy, Doug, that's a you know, that

994
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: was like a dark time for us. You know, it

995
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: was first of all, I think to this day. It's

996
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 1: the longest article ever written in Sports Illustrate, was six

997
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: six pages long, and we heard when it was coming out.

998
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: Coach Mass was devastated. We were all devastated. Was Gary

999
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: mcclein doing cocaine? Yeah? I mean I think a lot

1000
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: of kids were doing a lot of things in those days.

1001
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: Was he high in cocaine every day? I don't think so.

1002
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: But now the other thing is, and Gary is you know,

1003
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: I can tell you this is a fact. Sports Illustrated

1004
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: paid him forty dollars for the article, So I don't

1005
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: know does that was? It was? Also and again this

1006
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: is very important. It is a very different time. Okay,

1007
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: I never I've never seen cocaine in my life. Okay,

1008
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: But the following year, Len Bias or two years later,

1009
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: right us later, Len Bias is the second pick of

1010
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: the traffic and save the Boss, Tell the Sea died.

1011
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: He died like what I believe is from like cocaine.

1012
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: And that was like the wake up call to all athletes.

1013
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: Like that was the in my childhood. Don't do drugs?

1014
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: Was was was because of that, right, don't have unprotected

1015
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: sex because magic got HIV? Right, These are the learning lessons,

1016
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: But you have to like now if you hear guys

1017
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: use cocaine and cost but eighties different just different time

1018
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: was everywhere thou me, that's what they did. So I know,

1019
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: won't I won't say a name. I know there was

1020
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: a prominent, very very prominent coach at a very problement school.

1021
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: And we can talk about this off air, but um

1022
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: that I believe he was let go because they caught

1023
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: him using cocaine in his office, right like it was?

1024
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: Is that it was. That was the early to mid eighties,

1025
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: and I frankly think that len Bias, while he tragically

1026
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: passed away, probably saved a lot of dudes lives. And

1027
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,919
Speaker 1: because it was it all of a sudden, it became

1028
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: much more taboo and it wasn't previously. Yeah, there's no

1029
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: doubt about it. So you know that that was that

1030
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: came a couple of years later after the championship when

1031
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: that article came out, and that was that was Coach

1032
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: Mass felt really betrayed, really betrayed. And it kind of

1033
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: took for the time being, it took a little bit

1034
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: of the because we were kind of a field good

1035
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: story villain still are you know, I mean, I hate

1036
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: I hate bringing up. But but it's part that it was.

1037
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: It was a huge thing at the time, huge huge,

1038
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: Um you get done with that season? When did you

1039
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: get bumped up the full time? So now Mitch barter

1040
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: Euro leaves and goes becomes the head coach of Fairfield

1041
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: and so roll he puts me on the road for

1042
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: like until he figures out what he wants to do.

1043
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,919
Speaker 1: And I'm devastated. He decided not to give me the job.

1044
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: He decided not to move me up. He brings in

1045
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: John Olives. I remember remember John Oliver, of course, so

1046
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: he brings in John Allen. John Olives was his first recruit.

1047
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: Did I understand? I understood. I didn't like it. I

1048
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 1: didn't like it. I was divis I was I was upset,

1049
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: I said, But the truth is I showed up on

1050
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: campus in August. It's April. He basically knows me for

1051
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: four months and now he's gonna hire his first recruit.

1052
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: So he hires John Alive and I'm in the same job.

1053
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: But I swore that I may be number three, but

1054
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: I won't be number three. I'll be number two. I'm

1055
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: going to come in there and I'm gonna be able

1056
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: to do all the Scott my X and knows had

1057
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: become finally and more I've worked at it got good.

1058
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: I was able to do things. So he was able

1059
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: to lean on me. I knew that, and so that's

1060
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: kind of what I was alwayel like. So so before

1061
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: that you were the wheel offensively? What was what was ROLLI? Well,

1062
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: first of all, I gotta say this a defensive um

1063
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: like a man scientist, like he loved sitting in that

1064
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 1: office for eight hours, does ten hours and just figure

1065
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: out ways to screw. He would get a kick out of, Hey,

1066
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: they had no idea what we're doing. That was his

1067
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: like that that gave him the biggest thrill. So like

1068
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: when he Diamond one trying on to and a man, no, yeah,

1069
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: start zone. Get them to run their their their zone offense,

1070
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: go man, a man show man. Get them start doing

1071
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 1: it and making it look like we're zone. I mean,

1072
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: the ball gets passed to the right way, and we're

1073
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: gonna do this is the ball gets passed to the

1074
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: left way with that and you gotta have you gotta

1075
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: they understood the system and they were smart kids. You

1076
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: can't you can't just you can't do that. You can't

1077
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: do that with dumb kids. You gotta do with smart kids.

1078
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: You gotta do it with smart kids. And these guys,

1079
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. When you left there as a player,

1080
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: it's like you you knew basketball Like those guys when

1081
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: they were twenty one years old and I was twenty

1082
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: one years old. They had a pH d In basketball.

1083
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: I had another. So they were tremenous. That's what he did. Offensively,

1084
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: Coach Mass wasn't a great offensive coach. You know why

1085
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: because you know I always said this that you can

1086
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: be impetuous and reactionary defensively, but if you're impetuous and

1087
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: reactionary offensively, it's not good. He didn't have patience if

1088
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: this play didn't work. Now we're getting new him. Whereas defensively,

1089
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: a lot of times even sometimes we were screwed up

1090
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: doing what we were doing, but the other team was

1091
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: screwed up doing what we were in the idea he loved.

1092
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: So he's very he's very obviously animated and passionate. Okay, before,

1093
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: when you're in high school and you're coaching at Truman,

1094
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: were you the same or did you kind of take

1095
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: on some of his mannerisms? Hey, when I was coaching

1096
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: in the Greek League. I led the thing in technical files.

1097
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: I was bad. So you gotta understand there's nobody in

1098
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: the gym, and I'm screaming like a man man in

1099
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: these Greek League games. I was crazy. No coach mass

1100
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: had another to do with me. Who I was? I was?

1101
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: So who is the who is the other assistant? He

1102
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: had Marty mooreback, who became the head coach of Canisius.

1103
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: He left. You know, I was in the restrict I

1104
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: was only an assistant for four years. I only recruited

1105
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: for one year. I was restricted earnings for three years,

1106
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: and then Marty left my fourth year and now it

1107
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: was me John Olive and Jay Wright came. What was Jay? Like?

1108
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: Jay was? You know the swap? But what would you

1109
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: do even even then? Like he came by buck Now.

1110
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: Now buck Now is very very proper school. And I

1111
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: don't know what Bucknell was like then, but buck Now cool,

1112
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: little town, very cool school. Kind of feels not Ivy League,

1113
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: but feels a little a little upper upper crust. Okay,

1114
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,959
Speaker 1: So like when he walked in the doors, restricted earning,

1115
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: this guy or the third assistant, then was he already

1116
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: put together or was it? Was there a transformation. Oh no,

1117
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: he was always put together. I hired him to work

1118
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: our camp. He was an assistant at the time at

1119
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: Rochester Division three school, and I hired him to work,

1120
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: ok because he was from the area. And I'm the

1121
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: one and I'm the one that told Rolie you gotta

1122
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: hire this guy, you gotta hire this guy. So he was, oh,

1123
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, the personable swab. What you see. Imagine when

1124
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: he was like twenties six, you know what I mean,

1125
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: that's what you want seven And it's the same way,

1126
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: look better, probably because he's younger. Amazing. Okay, so how

1127
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: did you get the Manhattan job? So now we went

1128
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: to we I'm there four years, Manton job opens up,

1129
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: Manhaton job. Get understand that was what was lasting Division one,

1130
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: worst job in the country. They had one seventy games

1131
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: the ten years before I got there, and had four coaches.

1132
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: The whole bit. It was Roly said, you're crazy, that

1133
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: is the worst job. You can't go there. You got

1134
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: a month, you'll get a better job in that. It

1135
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: started on the island of Manhattan. Yeah, in the Bronx.

1136
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: And so he gave me a list. He said, here's

1137
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: ten things if they got to do every one of

1138
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: those things that you're taking the job. So, I mean

1139
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: with the athletic director in Philadelphia, I tell him the

1140
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: list of things that I think you need to do

1141
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: if you want to be any good. He comes back,

1142
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: he says, we'll do them all. And one of them

1143
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: was like put they had the tartan floor in those days,

1144
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: put a wood cordon. Who was gonna cause him like

1145
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: sixties seventy grand me? That was a lot of money

1146
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: back in. They did every one of them. So I said,

1147
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: you know what, and I grew up five minutes from there.

1148
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: I said, you know, coach, I'm gonna take it. He

1149
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: thought it was nuts, And you know, gradually we built

1150
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: it up. My last hold on job at Manhattan College.

1151
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: What your dad said? He was he was retired then

1152
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: he was so happy. He came to the press conference.

1153
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: He was retired, so he would get on the bus

1154
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: every day and come watch practice. He had nothing else

1155
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: to do because he was retired, so he'd come up

1156
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: and he was able to take the bus there and

1157
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: come to practice every day. And he would joke on

1158
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: me because one of my things I always said was

1159
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: how are you up? How are you up? And he

1160
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: knows it. How do you? How do you? You always

1161
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: imitate me? So, yeah, he loved it. He came to

1162
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: all the games, came to practice, loved it. You didn't.

1163
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,959
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything, really, but I loved watching. There's

1164
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: no that lay in in in Hebrew or in Israel

1165
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: they say y'alla. Now y'alla is actually Arabic for like

1166
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: let's go, right, But they say like yalla in in

1167
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: Russia and you say divide. There's no Greek for let's go. Yeah,

1168
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: that means how can how came you? You never you know?

1169
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: I always went with English. No my players, yeah, absolutely,

1170
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: and some explutives and stuck in there in between two. Okay.

1171
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: I so now it's been four years since you've been

1172
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: a head coach. Okay, but you learned from the master.

1173
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: You've been to the peak, right, and you've watched all

1174
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: these big East coaches, you know, sitting on that bench

1175
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: like the best of the best of the best. How

1176
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: were you different? How had you evolved from Truman High

1177
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: School to Manhattan College? Well? I was. I was way different.

1178
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: Now I've learned so much more about the game and

1179
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: excess nose and Scott me what we did scouting wise

1180
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: at Villanova and if funny thing does was I did

1181
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: a lot of things that coach mass Me did defensively

1182
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: but offensively. I became the opposite he wanted. He wanted

1183
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: to call every single play. I went to motion, and

1184
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: I had never been exposed to motion. I was I

1185
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: used to. I was watching Bobby Knights tapes and all

1186
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: these different Dean Smith's tapes to figure out how I

1187
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: wanted to play on offense because I was like, if

1188
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: we can stop these plays because of great scouting, then

1189
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: why am I gonna run set plays? I'm gonna run

1190
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: something that can't be scouted. And that's why motion. If

1191
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: you have great motion. I thought we had pretty good

1192
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: motion at Villanova in Manhattan. If you run good motion,

1193
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: you can't scout it. Why don't Why don't people run motion? Now?

1194
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: You know it's I don't know. I really don't know.

1195
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 1: When I mean, people are running more sets and things

1196
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know why people aren't running motion

1197
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: like they used it. There was there was a time

1198
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: can offer up a offer up a hypothesis. Okay, now,

1199
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: just you know, like Fran McCaffrey, who's Philly guy. We

1200
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: both know very well. He and I know they lost

1201
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: the other night or whatever, but he's one of the

1202
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: few that run motion. I've had other coaches tell me like,

1203
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: that's one reason they're so hard to care for is

1204
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: they're doing something that like what do we do here? Coach, like, bro,

1205
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: you just gotta play basketball. I would say, there's there's

1206
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: three things that come to my mind. One is the transferring, okay,

1207
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: because you gotta and it actually, let's start at the start.

1208
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: The first thing is how they're taught at a young age. Right,

1209
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,479
Speaker 1: every kid now has a trainer, and every trainers teaching

1210
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: them have to play how to play against a cone

1211
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: one on cone right, how to play ball string, how

1212
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: to score man a man, how to how to play downhill.

1213
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: You know, we don't teach kids how to read a

1214
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: screen and how to move and set our feet, right,

1215
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: we don't. So how they taught at a young age

1216
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: and then transition them to college and you don't have

1217
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: them for as long period time if you have a

1218
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: kid for a couple of years. You know, I remember

1219
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: I got another dame, like I kind of I knew

1220
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: I'd run some motion in high school, but I just

1221
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: remember the first two weeks, three weeks of practice like

1222
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't stop the other guy, and I

1223
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: couldn't get a shot because I didn't know how to

1224
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 1: play really kind of play basketball with an emotion. But

1225
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,919
Speaker 1: once you get it, you're like, this is the best

1226
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: because there's no set pattern, right, you can just read

1227
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: a screen, read your man, and you're like working together.

1228
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: But I don't think teams by and large are cohesive

1229
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: enough because they're going they transfer where they go, pro whatever,

1230
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: and coaches feel that and know that it's even though

1231
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: it's better to run motion, they don't feel stable enough

1232
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: to to implement it and to have guys struggle. Whereas

1233
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: if you put them in a ball screen, they all

1234
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: know how to play a ball screen and their their

1235
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: their personal skill comes out. You know what, I never that.

1236
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: I never thought because the truth is about motion. Motion

1237
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: is kind of like you have to be committed to

1238
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: it and as a program you gotta get you get

1239
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: better at it every year, and guy get better at it.

1240
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: I tell my asist, I said, you know when we

1241
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: you know when where we're gonna be. Where I want

1242
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: to be when our guys played pick up and they

1243
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: run in motion, real motion, teach guys how to play.

1244
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: Bobby Knight said, I took it from him. Teach guys

1245
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: how to play, don't teach him place. And that's kind

1246
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: of where we were. Okay, So your your career at

1247
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: Manhattan College is like, that's how you're supposed to do it, right.

1248
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: You come in your first year, you win seven games,

1249
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: your last year you win, right, and those are all

1250
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: the guys that you initially recruited, right, How many of

1251
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: those guys from your first recruiting class were there for

1252
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: the fourth year for when you when you got when

1253
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: you won everyone and not only that, when I left

1254
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: to go to Villanova after that year, they were all seniors.

1255
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: The following your friend for Sheila took him to the

1256
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: n c A Tournament. We lost at the Buzzer to

1257
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: Lisalle in the mac j issues game. That year with

1258
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: my last year there and the year we went and

1259
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: then we lost the Notre Dame in the quarterfinals of

1260
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: the n I t and then all those guys were back.

1261
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: They were all juniors. Day he lost in the quarterfying

1262
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: you could have gotten play in the garden, yes, oh yeah,

1263
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: they had a Lofonso yeah, Elmer Bennett, yeah, uh and

1264
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: one more big time player. I forget it was named Dammit.

1265
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: There were three. It was a big freesome. They called

1266
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: it Damian Sweet. It was Damian He was the third guy. Yes,

1267
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: and based on Billy Billy Taylor, who's very good coaching.

1268
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: He's at He's at Iowa. Now, Um, Carl Cozeno, I got,

1269
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: I got a great story. I guess lamar justice. Okay,

1270
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: Keith Tower is a true story. Okay, Keith Tower, he's

1271
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: from Moon, Pennsylvania. We recruited him. That's funny. Uh, Keith

1272
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: Tower my first year at my first year Notre Dame,

1273
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: Keith Towers in the NBA. Right, he comes back to

1274
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: play with us, and we used to play in the pit.

1275
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: The pit is now there's now basketball practice facility in

1276
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: the basement of of of the arena that used to

1277
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: be called the pit. That's where we warm up, that's

1278
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: we have practice some days. It was like our auxil region.

1279
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: So here I am punk kids Southern California. Highly tried

1280
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: to recruit and we start playing pickup ball and I'm

1281
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: not in the first game, and now I'm not in

1282
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: the second game, and so I get in like the

1283
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: third game. I played a little bit in them off.

1284
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: I don't win him off. And this happens a couple

1285
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: of different days, and so finally I go to France

1286
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: and I was like Fran, like, fun did I come

1287
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,919
Speaker 1: here for? Like you told me? I'm gonna start right away,

1288
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: and I'm not even in pickup games. We don't control

1289
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: pickup games. You want to get in the game, get

1290
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: in the game. So so Keith is doing this whole

1291
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: seniority thing right, like if Fawns comes and plays, he's

1292
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: gonna play. If Keith, if any of these guys come play,

1293
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 1: and the freshman, you guys just get him when we

1294
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: tell you to get in. We got like five right

1295
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: me a, Tony Weish, Gary Bell, uh, Phil Hickey. Right,

1296
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: we're all just like rereading class and we can't get

1297
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: in pickup teas. So finally they're playing one day and

1298
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: I just stand on the court and the game ends

1299
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: and I'm just staying on the court and he's like,

1300
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: what do you do it? And I said, I'm playing

1301
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: next game called game I have game. No you're not,

1302
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: you're not. You don't have credit outs. It's all right,

1303
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 1: you guys play. I'm not moving. So they started playing

1304
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 1: pick up and I'm there shooting jump shots at the

1305
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 1: freezer line. Finally they stopped and one of the guys

1306
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: sits out and I get get into the game. And

1307
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: after that it was never it was never an issue

1308
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: ever again. It was like one of those you gotta

1309
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself moments. Yeah, you gotta do that

1310
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: once in a while. You gotta do it once a while. Okay,

1311
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: So take me through going from Manhattan College. You lose

1312
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: in the quarterfinals of the n I. T Okay, this

1313
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: is right where you grew up. You finally got a

1314
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,639
Speaker 1: roll in. When did you get to Villanova? Call? Well,

1315
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: originally they had wanted to hire Pete Gillen first. Pete

1316
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: gill and was also a rolely assistant for a couple

1317
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: of years, and then Pete decided he didn't want it,

1318
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: and then they called me. So it's probably two weeks later,

1319
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 1: and it was you know, like, so so this is

1320
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: so you get Are you finished playing yet? Are you

1321
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: still playing? Like? I don't know the time we're finished?

1322
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: We're finished playing. This is at the end of the season.

1323
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: So what time beer is it? Like? How how late

1324
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,759
Speaker 1: did it happened? Well, and I'll tell you a funny

1325
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: story that uh about when I signed my extension in

1326
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 1: Manhattan when I when I went to Manhattan College, one

1327
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: of the things that I asked for was uh an

1328
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: interest free loan, because, uh, you couldn't buy a house

1329
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: in New York. I mean, I wasn't making enough wind

1330
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: money to buy a house. And so they put in

1331
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: the contracts, Okay, we'll give me give you this loan,

1332
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: interest free loan wasn't that big, but it was enough

1333
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: down payment. And if you made your first house, my

1334
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: first house, my second half. No, I had houses in

1335
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: assistant in Villon. So then, uh, they put in the contract,

1336
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna give you this loan, and if you make

1337
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: the n s a tournament, will forgive along. Wow. So

1338
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: now and he lost in the buzzer shot buzzer. But

1339
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: now here's the thing. The president of the school walks

1340
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: in my office the next day. You know, it brings

1341
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: tears to my eyes when I think about it, he says, Coach,

1342
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: I just want you to know this. We didn't put

1343
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: that in the contract so that you would suffer from

1344
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: some kid missing a shot or making a shot or whatever.

1345
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: But if you did what we you did what we

1346
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: wanted you to do. Here, we'll forgive him a loan. Wow,

1347
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 1: and I felt and then two weeks later I left. Okay,

1348
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: So who calls you? Um, the athletic director Tennesseeto, who

1349
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: has since passed away. He calls me, that calls you. Okay,

1350
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: this is now. We're in the now. We're in the nineties, right,

1351
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: So he he calls you on your office phone, home phone,

1352
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: home phone, call me on my home phone and said

1353
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: did you pick it up or Harry pick it up?

1354
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: I picked it up and he said I But he

1355
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: there were a couple of big time boosters who told

1356
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: me the calls coming. So it wasn't a surprise when

1357
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: I got the call because I had these friends at

1358
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: Villanova had made while I was there as an assistant

1359
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: that warned me and said, you're looking good. He's gonna

1360
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: call you. Okay, So he calls you, calls for you.

1361
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: Now I know. Now you got understand in this to

1362
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: at Villanova event not now so much the athletic that

1363
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: it comes down to the president, not the athletic director. Right.

1364
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: The head priest is the guy who's making a decision

1365
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 1: out who's coaching the basketball team. Now, I don't know

1366
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: how it is now they haven't got to do it

1367
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: in twenty years. So but then that's how it was.

1368
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: So the athletic that called me, but the president wanted

1369
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: to see me. Okay, so you shaw, you pack the

1370
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: car and you go see him. Did you did you

1371
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 1: tell how did you handle with Manhattan today? Did Did

1372
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: they know that they were talking? You're talking they knew

1373
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: that the one place that I would leave for was that. Okay,

1374
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: Well they kind of knew it from the beginning. I said, listen,

1375
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: I love it here. It's his home for me. You know,

1376
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: my wife's from me here, we're from here. We love it.

1377
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 1: But if something happening to Villanova, that's all bets are off. Um,

1378
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: So you go meet with the president. What was it like?

1379
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: It was? You know? Uh? He said to people afterwards

1380
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: about me, He said, I liked him because of the

1381
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: fire he had in his belly. So you know, you

1382
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: can imagine knowing me, you know how I am with

1383
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, and you know the fact that

1384
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: I was there, the fact that you know I left

1385
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: there and people like me, you know what I mean,

1386
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 1: help obviously, And I think I think actually means. I

1387
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 1: think it actually means more than getting any other job,

1388
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: just because saying we really liked you at you personally,

1389
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: We've seen what you've done, but we know you. I

1390
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: actually think it speaks more to when you can get

1391
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: a job at a place that you've been before. Yeah,

1392
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,600
Speaker 1: I think you're a percent right, You're right. So and

1393
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:55,600
Speaker 1: then you know, um Um he told me, you know,

1394
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to hire you, and I was like, I

1395
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. You know, I did believe it obviously

1396
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: because I knew kind of had a feeling that this

1397
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: was for him to call me in it was gonna happen.

1398
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: But there were other guys involved, you know, Mike Jarvis,

1399
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: they were talking to, They had talked to Nick mccartchick Uh,

1400
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: they had talked to Uh. I confused the park Hill

1401
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: that was at Penn State, Bruce park Hill, Bruce Um.

1402
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 1: Those were the main three other guys. Okay, so so

1403
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: last thing. That's the end of part one. Okay, how

1404
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: did you handle it with leaving Manhattan terms of the assistants,

1405
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: in terms of talking to the president, in terms of

1406
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: talking to the players, because it has become a big

1407
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 1: topic of conversation with is how you leave. I mean,

1408
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: I was very upfront with them from the beginning who

1409
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: as I got that first call. As soon as they

1410
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: heard Roy left, they knew I had told him. I said, listen,

1411
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: if something happened. I don't know if anything's gonna happen,

1412
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: but if something happens, it's Villanova. And they understood. They

1413
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: were told the athletic director of Villo at Manhattan and

1414
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: the president would and this to me always they understood

1415
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: completely was the problem. You know, I felt so bad

1416
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: for them kids. They came there when the place was nothing.

1417
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: Now we had this thing going last. How about this

1418
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: the last game in Draggy. Now you can understand this.

1419
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: When I get to Draggy, when I get to Manhattan.

1420
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 1: We played my first game against Hofstra. Butch Van Bredakoff

1421
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 1: is the coach. There's fifty people in the gym for

1422
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: my first game as a head coach. I walked in

1423
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: the gym for the game, I said, what did I do?

1424
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: I come in this fifty people. My last game at home,

1425
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: two thousand people sold out. They were scalping tickets out.

1426
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,759
Speaker 1: I who playing Wisconsin Green Bay. Tony Bennett was playing

1427
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,600
Speaker 1: for his father and we we won that game at

1428
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: the Buzzer. And that's when we went and played uh Rutgers,

1429
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: beat them with the buzzer at Rutgers and then lost

1430
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: another Dame. Okay, so that's Part one. That's just him

1431
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: getting to Villanova. Getting to Villanova, he's been a part

1432
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: of the national championship team, been an assistant coach, been

1433
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 1: head coach in Manhattan, talked about his kind of own

1434
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: personal journey. Part two will be coaching at Nova, losing

1435
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 1: the job at Nova, going to U mass getting into television,

1436
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 1: and now having a son who's a coach. All of

1437
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: that's up coming in the next one. By the way

1438
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: of the Doug got Leave Show is twelve to three

1439
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 1: Eastern time, Pacific Coast time, three to six Eastern time,

1440
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio, I Heart Radio app. Wherever you download

1441
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: this podcast, you can download that as a podcast as well.

1442
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening, and thanks to Steve Lapis.

1443
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: We'll have him join us for part two. That's next

1444
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 1: time on All Ball