1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Trac V. Wilson. I have 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: been wanting to talk about Thomas Dorsey for a while, 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: well over a year, because part of his story represents 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: a scenario for an artist that I find ceaselessly intriguing, 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: which is that he lived a sort of double life creatively. UH. 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: I first learned about him when I heard one of 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: his songs being played by a live band last year. 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: I was in New Orleans and I asked the band 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: leader after their set what that song was, and he 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: was like, do you not know who Thomas Dorsey is? 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: And then I felt stupid. But then I looked into 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: a story and he went write on my list, UM, 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: and I really really love his work, so I thought 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: that would be a good time let's talk about him. Ultimately, 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Thomas Dorsey made his mark by combining existing ideas in 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: his work and creating something new. UH. And that consequently 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: changed religious music forever. And Tracy and I actually had 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: a conversation before we recorded, where she said she asked, 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: did it change religious music or Christian music? And I said, well, 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: technically Christian music, but because even people who do not 23 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: feel particularly religious or are not Christian respond to it 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: and find it very spiritual, it gets to be a 25 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: little bit trickier to say it's just Christian music or not. 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: But we will talk about that and the incredibly uplifting 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: genre of music that he essentially created. Thomas Andrew Dorsey 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: was born in Villerica, Georgia, on July one, eight nine. 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: His father, the Reverend Thomas Madison Dorsey, was a Revivalist 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: preacher and a school teacher, and his mother, at a 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: plant Spencer Dorsey, was the church organist. The Dorsey family, 32 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: Thomas had several siblings, moved around a great deal before 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: settling in Atlanta in eight Eda and a senior were 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: both educated tam Dorsey attended Atlanta Baptist College, which eventually 35 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: became More House. Eda was a property owner and Villica 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: starting in before she married Thomas. She made that purchase 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: with the money she came into after her first husband died, 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: so they started out in really good standing. But the 39 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: Dorsey family's fortunes dwindled. Before they moved to Atlanta, they 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: had actually fallen into poverty Eda's land had been sold 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: off in pieces over the years to keep the family afloat, 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: and then they entered into a sharecropping arrangement which depleted 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: what little they had left. We have talked on the 44 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: show about how sharecropping systems essentially would just keep people 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: poor and in many cases make them poorer than when 46 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: they began. When they moved to the city, both of 47 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Dorsey's parents had to leave their religious jobs behind for 48 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: other work just so they could make ends meet. His 49 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: mother started working by taking in laundry, and his father 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: took work as a laborer. This is a really difficult 51 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: time for nine year old Thomas. For one, his family 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: had been well respected back in Villarica, but there were 53 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: nobody's in Atlanta. He wasn't really accepted by his peers 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: at school, and he had to fall back a grade 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: from the third grade and repeat second grade. It's really 56 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: made him the odd man out among all of his 57 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: classmates who were younger than he was, and among the 58 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: children his own age who were in a grade above his. 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: And one recollection, he mentioned never getting invited to classmates 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: birthday parties and sometimes watching those festivities through the windows 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: of the celebrants homes, and because of that lack of 62 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: connection with kids his own age, Thomas started going to 63 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: vaudeville performances and hanging out at the theaters. This initially 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: began because it was popular for kids his age to 65 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: go to the kids matinees there. Uh These were theaters 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: where sometimes there would be a movie, but also there 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: would be live acts. But he started lingering long past 68 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the matinees intended for children, so that he could see 69 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: the musical acts intended for adults. And it was there 70 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: in Atlanta's black entertainment scene of the Early Night hundreds 71 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: that he finally found a sense of belonging. Watching performers 72 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: such as Bessie Smith, who was also very young at 73 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: this time, and Ma Rainey inspired him to pursue music 74 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: as a career for himself. He had learned a bit 75 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: of piano from his mother and learned to play the 76 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: blues songs that were popular from some of the regular 77 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: piano men and touring performers that he'd come into contact 78 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: with at the theater. He started playing first at parties 79 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of an unpaid fill in, and then he 80 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: started to play professionally. Still just a kid, he did 81 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: this at some of the saloons and what was back 82 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: then the black red light district on Decatur Street that 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: earned him the nickname barrel House Tommy. And at this point, though, 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: even though his mother had been very, very musically inclined, 85 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: he couldn't read music, and he knew that that was 86 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: limiting him. He had basically been learning songs by rote 87 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: without having to read music, so as a young teenager, 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: he decided to seek out music lessons. He took those 89 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: from a woman named Mrs Graves, but he had never 90 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: really liked struck Char schooling, so he gave up this 91 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: enterprise after just a short while, and he started once 92 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: again to look to professional jazz and blues pianists to 93 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: get the education that he truly wanted. And in some 94 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: cases they weren't teaching him actively. He was just watching 95 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: them and noting how they performed and what notes they 96 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: were playing. But he quickly saw the problem in all 97 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: of this. Professional pianists needed to be able to sight 98 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: read to get hired to a company acts that were 99 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: coming through town, and Dorsey's solution was that he didn't 100 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: want to go back to again formal schooling, so he 101 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: sent away for an assortment of books on music, and 102 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: he taught himself. He continued though, to play theaters and 103 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: house parties, but parties in particular were often broken up 104 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: by the police, so he would not get paid for those. 105 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: As someone who studied piano with a piano teacher and 106 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: had a piano teacher to teach me how to to 107 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: play and read music, um, the idea of teaching myself 108 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: to do it, like, yeah, I'd be difficult for me. 109 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: Uh Vers eventually became famous for gospel music, but for 110 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: a wide stretch of his early musical career he worked 111 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: in the very non religious genre of hokum music. That's 112 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: a blues style that's comedic in nature, and usually it's 113 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: very sexually suggestive. Dorsey wasn't usually writing the body lyrics 114 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: to these songs, though, he was arranging and composing the 115 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: music and playing the piano for recordings and occasionally singing, 116 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: and as we mentioned a moment ago, he was still 117 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: very young while doing this. He started his fill in 118 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: jobs when he was eleven or twelve. Before he was 119 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: a teenager, he left school to start pursuing a career 120 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: as a musician full time. He would work in the 121 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: hocum genre until the late nineteen twenties, but as Dorsey matured, 122 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: his music did as well. In nineteen sixteen, at the 123 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: age of seventeen, he moved from Atlanta to Chicago, Illinois. 124 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: He migrated north, like many other black Southerners, in the 125 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: hopes that he could build a better life for himself, 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: he would have more opportunities, and in the hopes that 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: he would just have to deal with less racism. This 128 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: decision was in for in part by the newspaper The 129 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: Chicago Defender. This was a black periodical that encouraged migration 130 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: north for better opportunities. This has come up in other 131 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: shows before as part of the Great Migration. Uh An 132 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: incident in which he was assaulted by a white store 133 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: owner for standing outside the shop was often something that 134 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: Dorsey cited as the moment he decided he was just 135 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: done with Atlanta. He had initially been planning to continue 136 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: on to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where his father had some family, 137 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: but he wound up staying in Chicago. He did, however, 138 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: return to Atlanta in the winters the first two years 139 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: that he lived there, because he could not handle the cold. 140 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: Chicago winters do not mess around they are brutal. As 141 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: someone who lives in Atlanta and has a best friend 142 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: in Chicago, I completely understand this arrangement. Uh. You may 143 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: notice that we are are edging up into the First 144 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: World War going on, and Dorsey registered, but he was 145 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: not drafted, and the thing that kept him from being 146 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: called up up was the flu pandemic. Thomas got sick 147 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: in the first wave, and he did eventually recover. He 148 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: returned to Atlanta again that winter, but he did not 149 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: go back to Chicago in the spring. He waited until 150 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: the violence of the Red Summer in nineteen nineteen had subsided. 151 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: Dorsey kept working during this time and claimed throughout his 152 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: life that he had walked into a club one night 153 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: and asked the woman playing the piano if she wouldn't 154 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: like a break. According to this story, she said yes, 155 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: she would like a break. He took over, and by 156 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: the end of his set he was established on the 157 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: Chicago scene. One of his most sought after skills was 158 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: his ability to play the piano quietly. That meant that 159 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: he could play it illegal after hours parties and not 160 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: attract unwanted police attention. That was particularly valuable during Prohibition. 161 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: Thomas found the Chicago music scene to be really competitive. 162 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: There were simply a lot of piano players and other 163 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: musicians with a lot more education and technique than Dorsey, 164 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: and he realized that while he initially seemed really popular 165 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: and he felt like he was successful, he kind of 166 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: started to notice that he was only popular in the 167 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: lowest socioeconomic wrong of black society. There So the parties 168 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: he was getting booked at were kind of like the 169 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: parties that poor people were throwing, and he wanted bigger, 170 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: more lucrative bookings. So he decided once again to give 171 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: formal training ago, and this time he enrolled at the 172 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: Chicago School of Composition and Arranging. Becoming more skilled in 173 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: composition and arrangement ended up being vital to Dorsey's long 174 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: term career. Dorsey started copyrighting his music in nineteen but 175 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: he was an outlier on the blues scene in that regard. 176 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: He spoke later in his life about how the blues 177 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: men at the time were really casual and cavalier about 178 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: their original work, saying, quote, well, all the blues sounded 179 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: alike for a while, anyway, so we never bothered about 180 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: the other fellow. If he got something of yours out 181 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: that's okay. I just let him take me out to 182 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: dinner or something like that, and if he thought I 183 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: infringed on him, there was no any transaction. Now, in 184 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: a moment, we're going to talk about an unfortunate detour 185 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: that caused success to elude Thomas in the early nineteen twenties. 186 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: But first we are going to take a quick sponsor 187 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: break the time that Dorsey spent in school and a 188 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: surgeon popularity for blues music really helped improve his standing 189 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: on the Chicago music scene. But as his reputation grew 190 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: and his career seemed poised to really take off, Thomas 191 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: had what is usually described as a nervous breakdown at 192 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: the age of twenty one. He had been working day 193 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: jobs and then playing at night, and the NonStop schedule 194 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: and not taking care of himself had caused him to 195 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: drop a lot of weight. His mother went to Chicago 196 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: to get him, and when she saw him, she found 197 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: him gaunt and exhausted. I think I read one one 198 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: account that said he weighed less than a hundred and 199 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: thirty pounds, and he was a grown man at this point, 200 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: so that's quite lean. Uh. He went home to Atlanta 201 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: with Eda to recover and during his time there, though, 202 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: she was very vocal about her disdain for the type 203 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: of music that he had been playing for a living, 204 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: and she really really urged him to turn to religious music. 205 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: He was still just a young man in his early twenties, 206 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: and Dorsey did not take his mother's advice. Once he 207 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: was feeling better, he went back to Chicago, But once 208 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: he was there he had a profound spiritual experience. Thomas 209 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: believed in God, but he didn't want to belong to 210 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: any one church when his worship was a little haphazard. 211 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: But while he was attending the National Baptist Convention in Chicago, 212 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: in one with his uncle, he heard W. M. Nix 213 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: sing I Do Don't You? And, as Dorsey would later say, quote, 214 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: my inner being was thrilled. My soul was a deluge 215 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: of divine rapture. My emotions were aroused, my heart was 216 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: inspired to become a great singer and worker in the 217 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: Kingdom of the Lord. In nine two, Dorsey copyrighted his 218 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: first sacred song, if I Don't Get There and more 219 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: and followed. He also became the music director at the 220 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: New Hope Baptist Church on the south side of Chicago, 221 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: and this was a really good fit because the New 222 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: Hope Congregation was open to some of the experimentation that 223 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: Dorsey wanted to try out musically. That was something that 224 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: a lot of churches probably would not have accepted. As 225 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: he put it, quote, I had the prerogative to take 226 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: a church song and put more into it. The New 227 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: Hope job only lasted a few months before Dorsey's interest waned. 228 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: He took a job with a band called the Whispering 229 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: Syncopaters at forty dollars a week, and the band became 230 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: really popular at clubs around Chicago. But after a few 231 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: months of that he moved on to the booming blues 232 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: recording business. Dorsey was able to assess the music industry 233 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: and its audience and then write songs that had mass appeal. Yeah, 234 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: some music historians will say these are clearly not his 235 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: best works because he was like, what will make money, 236 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: what will sell the most records? Uh In Thomas started 237 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: touring with famed blue singer Ma Rainey, who he had 238 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: watched for and when he was a kid, and he 239 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: performed under the name Georgia Tom with her Wildcats jazz band. 240 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: That's the name he also used as a recording artist, 241 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: and Dorsey was putting away money that he made on tour, 242 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: and he made a little nest egg for himself with 243 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: the intention that his next step in life was to 244 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: start a family. While Dorsey's star was on the rise, 245 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: his uncle Joshua, who also lived in Chicago, had taken 246 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: on two new household members. They were Frankie Harper, a 247 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: nurse that Joshua had hired to work in his drug store, 248 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: and Frankie's sister, Nettie. When Thomas and Nettie met, they 249 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: started a courtship immediately. In spring of Thomas proposed but 250 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: Nettie did not give him an answer. He also wrote 251 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: to Nettie's mother and asked for her blessing and did 252 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: not get a reply. But after several months of making 253 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: him wait, uh, Thomas would would describe later on that 254 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: there was another man in the mix also courting Nettie, 255 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: and he wondered what was going on there and who 256 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: would win her affections. But Nettie did accept Thomas's proposal 257 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: of marriage. They got married on August one of n 258 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: and they left Chicago together on August two, not on 259 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: a honeymoon, but on tour with Ma Rainey. Morainey had 260 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: made Nettie her wardrobe mistress, even though she had no 261 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: experience in that career, so that the newlyweds could travel 262 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: together again. It seemed like his life was in a 263 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: good place and his career was as well. But in 264 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: nineteen six Dorsey had a second nervous breakdown, and this 265 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: one was worse than the first had been. It had 266 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: started while he was touring. He noticed one night on 267 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: stage that his playing had what he called an unsteadiness. 268 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: That unsteadiness persisted and got worse until he wasn't able 269 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: to play at all. So Dorsey had no income, and 270 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: Nettie took a job in a laundry to keep them afloat. 271 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: This went on for more than two years. He had 272 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: sought the advice of all manner of doctors. They could 273 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: not find anything wrong with him. He rested, but no 274 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: improvement came, and Dorsey described feeling quote perplexed, sick, disturbed, 275 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: in a bundle of confusion. The thought of losing his 276 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: musicality forever was a particularly dark thing. He considered suicide 277 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: during this time, and he told a biographer years later, quote, 278 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: I was just standing out there ready. Maybe to jump 279 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: in Lake Michigan if it wasn't nothing else to do. 280 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: I didn't feel exactly like that, but something had to happen. Ultimately, 281 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: it was an encounter with a faith healer, Bishop H. H. Haley, 282 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: that restored Dorsey's vibrance. Thomas had been convinced by his 283 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: sister in law to attend church with her. Dorsey had 284 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: always felt like he was a man of God, although 285 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: his relationship with the church had become less consistent as 286 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: he grew up. But that Sunday with his sister in law, 287 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: he met H. H. Haley, who said to him, quote, 288 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: Brother Dorsey, there's no reason for you to be looking 289 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: so poorly and feeling so badly. The Lord has too 290 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: much work for you to let you die. And according 291 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: to Dorsey's account of what happened next, Haley pulled a 292 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: live serpent out of Dorsey's throat, and having been for 293 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: need of that, his suffering ended, and on the spot 294 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: he pledged to do the Lord's work from that moment on. 295 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: So this is when Thomas decided to heed his mother's advice, 296 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: and he turned his regained talents to writing sacred music. 297 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: In Dorsey published his first piece of gospel music. If 298 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: you see my Savior sparks a desire creatively that would 299 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: define the musician's entire career, although he really struggled with 300 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: his identity musically for a while. Dorsey had planned to 301 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: work exclusively in religious music genres from the time of 302 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: his healing, but the religious songs that he was writing 303 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: were not well received. Churches simply didn't want them. They 304 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: were too modern, They used an eight bar blue structure, 305 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: and they had displaced syncopated notes, and some ministers even 306 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: called his work double music. Even though the lyrics were 307 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: very devotional and affirming, uh they were a departure in 308 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: that they were not so much about pain and sorrow 309 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: as they were about hope and sort of affirmative connection 310 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: with religion, and Dorsey thought this would catch on, and 311 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: he even tried sending free copies of some of his 312 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: songs to churches in the hopes that they would like 313 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: them and that they would buy more. But that did 314 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: not work, and for a brief period, just needing to 315 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: find work, Dorsey went back to playing non religious blues. 316 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: We're about to talk about a song that was just 317 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: wildly successful for him, but which he was ambivalent about 318 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: and we will get to that. After a sponsor break in, 319 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Dorsey collaborated with Chicago based guitarist Hudson Whittaker, better known 320 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: by his stage name of Tampa Red on a hocum 321 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: song filled with sexual double entendre called It's Tight Like That. Initially, 322 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: when Whittaker approached Dorsey with the lyrics, which needed a melody, 323 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: Dorsey told him he didn't quote do that kind of 324 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: music anymore, but Whittaker convinced him and Dorsey really needed 325 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: the money. He very quickly that night wrote a tune. 326 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: They recorded it the next day, and the record was 327 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: a huge hit. They also recorded two other versions of it, 328 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: and the money did indeed come in. Dorsey's first royalty 329 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: check for It's Tight Like That again was two thousand, 330 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: four hundred dollars and nineteen cents, and Dorsey felt that 331 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: this sort of income justified his move back to secular 332 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: music because it meant that he could pamper Nettie in 333 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: a way that showed his thanks for her sticking with 334 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: him through his darkest times. But then Thomas lost a 335 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: lot of money when the bank that he had been 336 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: depositing his checks in went bust. He and Nettie both 337 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: believe that this is the work of God to remind 338 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: him that he had promised to devote his talents to 339 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: sacred music. But the sudden financial loss put him in 340 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: a position where he had to take paying jobs in 341 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: secular music, as his gospel tunes were still struggling to 342 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: find an audience, and as a consequence, Dorsey began living 343 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: something of a double life. He was still working on 344 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: his gospel songs, and he was uggling to get churches 345 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: to accept him, and he was trying all kinds of 346 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: ways to try to get a foot in that door, 347 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: but he was also working as a road musician playing 348 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: hocum songs. He said at one point quote, I wasn't 349 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: giving all my time to the church. See, I was 350 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: kind of straddling the fence, making money on the outside, 351 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, in the band business, and then going to 352 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: church Sunday morning helping what I could do for them, 353 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: but they wasn't able to pay nothing. I could make 354 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: money out there. In Dorsey's life changed completely. He and 355 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: Neddie were expecting their first child do in August. The 356 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: schedule was tight. Thomas was supposed to be on the 357 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: road very close to Nettie's due date, but her pregnancy 358 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: had gone really smoothly and they decided it would be 359 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: okay if he traveled. Her sister, who was a nurse, 360 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: was also going to be with her. Neddie and Thomas 361 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: had arranged for the birth to be at a hospital, 362 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: but the hospital had no beds when she arrived in labor, 363 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: and she had asked to be taken home for the 364 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: birth rather than being admitted elsewhere. There were complications during 365 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: the earth, and Nettie died. Thomas had received a telegram 366 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: before his concert started that night that the baby's arrival 367 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: was imminent, and it did mention that Nettie was sick, 368 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: but it did not really communicate the grave nature of 369 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: the situation. So he did the concert and he called 370 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: immediately after they had wrapped the show, and that was 371 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: when he was told that Nettie was dead. He and 372 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: the bandleader that he was on tour with immediately left 373 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: uh and the bandleader drove him all the way back home. 374 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: He met his baby, a son named Thomas Andrew, who 375 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: was a large, seemingly healthy infant, but Thomas Andrew Junior 376 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: died the night after his mother. In the depth of 377 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: his grief, Thomas turned to music. He found a piano, 378 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: and he wrote a song that he would later claim 379 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: had come directly from God. It was called take my Hand, 380 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: Precious Lord. The lyrics were Dorsey's rewritten version of George 381 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: Allen's him must Jesus Spare the Cross alone? In a way, 382 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: this was really where he brought his two lives into one, 383 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: combining the rhythms of the blues with the words of faith. Yeah, 384 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: in some ways he had been toying with this idea 385 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,239 Speaker 1: earlier in his career. Obviously, those early gospel songs were 386 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: not catching on. But this was like a point where 387 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: you could not argue that it was not a combination 388 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: of the two. And it was not accidental that Dorsey 389 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: chose to blend blues with a religious message. He had 390 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: noticed early in his career that the reactions that audience 391 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: gave it blues performances were often very similar to the 392 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: way people responded when they felt deeply moved in church. 393 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: He described the similarity in the nineteen seven interview quote, 394 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: I've seen women in the audience jump up, so touched, 395 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: jump up like you shouting in church. I've seen that 396 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: right in the theater. Whatever it is that touches them. 397 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: They jump up and ring and shout, just like we 398 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: would in church. It gets low down. Now what we 399 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: call low down in Blues doesn't mean that it's dirty 400 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: or bad or something like that. It gets down into 401 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: the individual to set him on fire, dig him up 402 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: or dig her up, way down there until they come 403 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: out with an expression. Verbally, if they're in the church, 404 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: they say amen. If they're in the blues, they say, 405 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: sing it now. And we should note that this was 406 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: not a style that was instantly popular or viewed positively. 407 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: Aside from his earlier work, this was also not across 408 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: the board something that people welcomed. There were some members 409 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: of black churches where this music first started appearing that 410 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: felt that it represented a step back, and they feared 411 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: that embracing something that felt like old culture and tradition, 412 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: that they were signaling to the white majority that they 413 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: were not interested in fitting in or assimilating, and that 414 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: in doing so, they were going to stunt the potential 415 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: for upward mobility for the entire Black community. Was concern 416 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: and discussion was not new, and it did not relate 417 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: only to music. Debate about the balance between adopting white 418 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: cultural norms or retaining a connection to their own Black 419 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: culture rooted all the way back to enslavement had been 420 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: happening for some time, especially in cities, and particularly as 421 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: more Black people we moved from rural areas to those cities. 422 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I read one note in a biography of 423 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: him that the people from rural communities that had moved 424 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: into more metropolitan areas kind of got looked at with 425 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: suspicion like, Oh, they're going to ruin it now, um, 426 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: because they didn't know quote how to act right. Um. 427 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: So this was a big conflict that was going on. 428 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: But Dorsey's Gospel Blues emerged as that debate was dividing 429 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: a number of congregations. But the combination of blues music 430 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: and the words of sacred text kind of became a 431 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: musical expression of that conflict, and to some degree it 432 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: was a modern blend of those two positions, and it 433 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: offered for a lot of people a sort of unification. 434 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: Decades later, in nineteen John Lovell Jr. Who wrote extensively 435 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: about Black music history, said that the creation of gospel 436 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: blues was quote an effort to give the spiritual a 437 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: modernity inform, content and beat the first time Dorsey and 438 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: his friend and fellow musician Theodore Fry performed to Take 439 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: My Hand, Precious Lord, which was that the Ebenezerer Missionary 440 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: Baptist Church in Chicago, just a few days after it 441 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: was written. The congregation very obviously loved it, and initially 442 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: that response confused Thomas Dorsey. He wasn't sure if people 443 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: were responding to the song itself or to the performances 444 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: of the art of the artists. But it became apparent 445 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: over time that he had created something new that truly 446 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: moved people. And as he said, this was not exactly 447 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: an instant hit due to all of that conflict that 448 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: we just mentioned. But over the next several years, Thomas 449 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: Dorsey's new brand of sacred music gained a following and 450 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: momentum as more and more churches started to welcome it. 451 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: He and Fry performed it in a lot of different 452 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: churches as kind of an introduction, and that's how most 453 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: people heard it for the first time. Soon, Thomas Dorsey 454 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: became the gospel choir director at Chicago's Pilgrim Baptist Church, 455 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: which became the epicenter of gospel blues. He continued in 456 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: that position into the nineteen seventies. He also started traveling 457 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: more and more to teach music to other choir directors, 458 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: and after doing that for just a short while, Dorsey 459 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: realized that there needed to be a governing body to 460 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: manage the growing need for education in this genre. In 461 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, the National Convention of Gospel Choirs was chartered. 462 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: Once again, Dorsey was at the center in this organization, 463 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: which continues today, set up resources for churches that wished 464 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: to form their own gospel choirs. The National Convention would 465 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: send people out to churches and help them get their 466 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: choirs up and running. Dorsey remained the national president of 467 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: that organization for four decades. As it travels and administrative 468 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: responsibilities added up, Dorsey stopped performing on recordings. His last 469 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: session was in ninety four as a popularity as a 470 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: songwriter continued to grow. Take My Hand Precious Lord became 471 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: a standard that was sung and recorded over the years 472 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: by a lot of luminaries in the music world, including 473 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, Rtha Franklin, Mahelia Jackson, and John Cash. Many 474 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: of Dorsey's more than four hundred songs have similarly been 475 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: sung by popular musicians, both in and out of religious contexts. Yeah. 476 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: He also started his own publishing company because music publishers 477 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: did not want to publish gospel music written by black composers, 478 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: and he was like, Okay, I'll put my schooling to work. 479 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: Um in one. Dorsey also remarried, this time to a 480 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: woman named Catherine Moseley, and they went on to have 481 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: two children together. Dorsey's career was unique because he was 482 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: able to see that his music was important to people 483 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: during his lifetime. One of the last things that Dr. 484 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Jr. Said before he was assassinated in 485 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: Memphis in nineteen sixty eight was that he wanted to 486 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: take my hand Precious Lord to be played that evening. 487 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: It was one of the civil rights leader's favorites. The 488 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: song was performed at Dr King's funeral. Thomas Dorsey died 489 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: on January twenty three, ninete in Chicago, after a lifetime 490 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: of giving music to people. He was ninety four years 491 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: old and he had developed Alzheimer's disease in the last 492 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: years of his life. In two thousand six, Pilgrim Baptist Church, 493 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: where Dorsey worked with its choir, burned that an accidental 494 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: fire that destroyed all but the exterior masonry. The church 495 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: had already been declared a historic site back in nineteen 496 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: seventy three, and there was a massive effort to raise 497 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: funds to rebuild the entire structure to what it had 498 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: looked like in the nineteen twenties and thirties. The focus 499 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: of reclamation efforts have shifted somewhat. The side is now 500 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: earmarked to become the National Museum of Gospel Music, and 501 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: fundraising efforts to fulfill that mission continue. Dorsey's many songs, 502 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: both secular and sacred, continue to be performed. Among other 503 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: notable recent instances Beyonce saying take My Hand, Precious Lord 504 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: at the fifteen Grammy Awards. You can hear that performance online. 505 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: It's quite touching. Earlier this year, the documentary Say Amen Somebody, 506 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: which covers the work of pioneers and gospel music, was 507 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: restored and re released. It features interviews and performances, and 508 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: includes Thomas Dorsey's speaking about writing Take My Hand, Precious Lord. 509 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: It's currently available to stream as a purchase or a 510 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: rental from Milestone Films. Writing about Mr Dorsey, author and 511 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: music producer Anthony Hilbut summed up the musicians contributions perfectly 512 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: when he wrote quote, A few composers dominate their genre 513 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: so dramatically as Thomas Andrew Dorsey, father of the gospel 514 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: song The Lion's share of the most popular gospel compositions 515 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: are his. That's Thomas Dorsey. I like him a whole bunch. Uh. 516 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: He's really really fun to go listen to interviews with 517 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: and I I really really love watching him speak because 518 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 1: you know, he's very open about his life being this 519 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: sort of duality for a long time, and that his 520 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: start was not in sacred music. Um. And you know 521 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: why he loves the loved the blues his entire life, 522 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: and it kind of um, even though it was born 523 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: of obviously very great tragedy, it's sort of wonderful that 524 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: he finally found success when he stopped trying to keep 525 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: those parts of his life siloed and let them be together. Um. 526 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: My listener mail is not entirely related, but it is 527 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: a little bit related because the person who wrote it 528 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: is a choir director, which is why I picked it. Uh. 529 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: It is from our listener, Libby, who writes, Dear Tracy 530 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: and Holly, I've been looking for a reason to write you, 531 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: and I think I finally have one. I started listening 532 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: to your podcast almost four months ago, but early in 533 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: February I started to earn my pH d and stuff 534 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: you missed in history class, and I vowed to listen 535 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: to every podcast from the beginning, no matter what. I 536 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: am a middle school choir teacher, so anytime I had 537 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: a break or I stayed after school degrade papers, I 538 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: listened to it a little bit as an aside thank 539 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: you for being an educator. Uh. Then in March we 540 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: left for the spring break that never ended and my 541 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: schedule opened up. Since March, I have listened to the 542 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: podcast whenever I've had free time. I've been working on 543 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: that PhD. UH, cooking sewing on my daily run. The 544 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: infrequent times have been in the car. My family made 545 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: sure that I did not miss a lot in history. 546 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: I grew up in the historic town of Hannibal, Missouri, 547 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: and my grandmother was a Mark Twain historian. But your 548 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: podcast fills the gaps that I missed, and honestly, I 549 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: don't know what I would have done without you guys 550 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: in the last four months. Uh, this is so sweet, Libby, 551 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It is always a great honor 552 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: for us to help people through any sort of difficulty 553 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: UM and to be their companions when they need a 554 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: little something to fill that that void. So thank you, 555 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much. If you would like to write 556 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: to us, you can do so at History Podcast at 557 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. You can also find us everywhere 558 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: on social media as Missed in History, and you can 559 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: subscribe to the show on the I heart Radio app, 560 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: at Apple podcasts, or wherever it is you listen. Stuff 561 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of I 562 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 563 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 564 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H