1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,639
Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,480
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

5
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Today is Monday, June second,

6
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 2: and we have a stacked night of headlines on our

7
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,199
Speaker 2: second live show. Ditty's former rival sug Night gives a

8
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 2: tell all interview to ABC News from prison. We have

9
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 2: more testimony from Mia on the stand at the Ditty

10
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,239
Speaker 2: trial tonight and day two in the defense in the.

11
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,560
Speaker 3: Karen Reid retrial.

12
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head up KAT Studios where

13
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 2: we make true crime documentaries and podcasts, and I get

14
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 2: to do that with Courtney Armstrong, our producer and also

15
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 2: an incredible host and of course our crime analyst.

16
00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 3: Body move in, So body, let's unpack this.

17
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 4: Ditty stuff is very heavy, So you know, let's we

18
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,039
Speaker 4: have to get into it. But I have to have

19
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 4: a little bit of levity. There has to be a

20
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 4: little bit of levity with all this as in Mighty Ditty.

21
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 3: Can't you see? Sometimes the things.

22
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 4: Just terrify me, like the things that he's being accused

23
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 4: of is terrifying and for people who are maybe just

24
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,399
Speaker 4: learning about this and maybe it's been too much for you,

25
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 4: you know, to kind of thinking that, you know, you

26
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 4: want to catch up on it, it's just been too much.

27
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 4: I'm going to just bring you like a very quick

28
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 4: synopsis of what's been going on. So as a reminder,

29
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 4: Diddy's on trial for allegedly operating a criminal enterprise involving kidnapping, arson, bribery,

30
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 4: and sex trafficking for the last twenty years. He has

31
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 4: pled not guilty to all the charges, and he faces

32
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 4: life in prison if he's convicted. All Right, here's what's

33
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 4: happened so far, and it's just as a background. Diddy

34
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 4: is like I'm sure you guys know who he is,

35
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 4: but he's really well known for being like a music mogul,

36
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 4: right the hip hop of the nineties and the two thousands,

37
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 4: with like Tupac and Big Ye and Shuge Night, like

38
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 4: the whole West Coast, East Coast thing. I'm sure we

39
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 4: all remember that well. He was arrested on September sixteenth

40
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty four in New York City by federal

41
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 4: agents and Since his arrest, he's been held without bail

42
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 4: in New York City and Brooklyn in the federal jail.

43
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 3: Okay, it's joke.

44
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,640
Speaker 4: It's no joke. I mean this is like federal like

45
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,680
Speaker 4: legit prison, right. Well, his trial began in May, so

46
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 4: this is all very recent, okay, and he's currently it's

47
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,640
Speaker 4: currently ongoing. We're in the fourth week right now, and

48
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 4: so far the testimony against him has been like pretty damning, okay.

49
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 4: Cassie Ventura, she's his ex girlfriend. She testified for over

50
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,119
Speaker 4: four days about a decade of abuse, including like these

51
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 4: drug fueled freak offs and they're like these like sex

52
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 4: orgies performative where Diddy would like watch and film and

53
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,799
Speaker 4: force her to do things that she just didn't want

54
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,639
Speaker 4: to do. It's just disgusting. It's too much to get

55
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 4: into on the okay. Additionally, rapper Kid Cut he testified

56
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 4: that his car was firebombed with a Molotov cocktail. That's arson, okay.

57
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 4: Federal agents have testified about items recovery during raids on

58
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 4: his home and properties, including firearms and drugs, and four

59
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 4: of his assistants have testified about horrible working conditions, threats

60
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 4: of violence, sexual abuse, getting more drugs, kidnapping even like

61
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 4: he's accused of kidnapping one of them. And then on

62
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 4: top of all of that, enters sug Night, right, enters

63
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 4: sug Knight, who you know, they've been enemies. My whole

64
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 4: like nineteen nineties is developed around you know, sug and

65
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 4: tupacating Diddy and you know remember Snoop Dogg getting up

66
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 4: there and going what you got no love for West Coast?

67
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 3: Like, you know, it's just very framing my whole youth.

68
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 4: Well, Intersuge Night, Stephanie, what can you tell us about

69
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 4: what happened?

70
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 2: Well, inter sug Night from behind bars? Remember he's serving

71
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 2: prison time right now for running over two people in Compton,

72
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 2: and he has a pretty steeped record. So you know,

73
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 2: as we're talking about Suge Knight and I too remember it.

74
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 3: Well, he was such a big deal.

75
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 2: And again the Puffy and Suge Night rivalry was really infamous.

76
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 2: In fact, it was allege you know, sug was with

77
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 2: Tupac when Tupac was murdered and that actually there's a

78
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 2: trial coming up for that real soon too. You're right

79
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: here in Vegas, right there in Vegas, that's right, Yeah,

80
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 2: and the accused you know, basically alleges that Diddy offered

81
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 2: a million dollars to basically participate in the murder or

82
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 2: killing of Tupac.

83
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,799
Speaker 3: So this is going very far back.

84
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 2: The fact that Shug is sort of speaking out in

85
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 2: Diddy's trial, I think it is two part One. Is

86
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: he a reliable source at this point? What is he

87
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 2: gaining from behind bars, if anything? And then also why

88
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 2: suddenly is he weighing in? I mean, he's been on Cuomo,

89
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 2: he's doing this ABC interview. It is entertaining, and he

90
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 2: is entertaining, no question, But he's also also a violent

91
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,000
Speaker 2: criminal and that shouldn't be forgotten.

92
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:09,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

93
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 4: And you know, I asked, I asked my girlfriend. I

94
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 4: was like, why do you think Sug Knight is coming

95
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 4: to the defense of Diddy? Because she's like my expert

96
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,080
Speaker 4: on all things Diddy, she's obsessed with it.

97
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 3: And she said, she.

98
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 4: Said, I think that's he's recognizing that people saw things

99
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 4: and didn't do anything about it.

100
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,279
Speaker 2: And that's what he's also saying from a big picture

101
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 2: is that look, Didty's a bad apple, no question per him.

102
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 2: But he's really saying, you got to shake the tree.

103
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 5: Right.

104
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 2: There's lots of big apples in this and this is

105
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 2: a very organized system, and yes, Diddy should go down,

106
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 2: but Diddy is the tip of the iceberg, is sort

107
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 2: of the assertion, if you will. Sugar is getting out

108
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 2: of prison allegedly he's up for parole in twenty thirty four.

109
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,000
Speaker 2: So he's been calling a lot of networks and journalists

110
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,600
Speaker 2: and you know, really trying to rally people from behind bars.

111
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 2: That's also pretty danger you know now that there's this

112
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,719
Speaker 2: talk about their potentially maybe being a part in et cetera.

113
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, these are dangerous details. Right, So if you're

114
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 2: like today giving testimony and you're facing your the monster

115
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 2: that you claim has ruined your life. And if this

116
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,039
Speaker 2: goes away and did he is acquitted or there's a

117
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 2: you know, a hung trial or something hung jury, what

118
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 2: happens to them? I mean, that's a really dangerous spot

119
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 2: to put somebody.

120
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 6: It's terrible. But also to your point, Shuge Night really

121
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 6: is trying to it seems like do the opposite. He

122
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,479
Speaker 6: was on ABC News this weekend. I believe mm hmm.

123
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 6: And here's a quote. He said, if Colembs is the

124
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 6: only one held accountable for alleged violence and abuse inside

125
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,039
Speaker 6: the world a rap, it's not gonna it won't break

126
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,880
Speaker 6: the cycle. If you're gonna make Puffy answer, make everyone answer.

127
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,599
Speaker 6: So it really does seem like he's trying to shine

128
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,279
Speaker 6: a light on the entirety of the rap community.

129
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, something that's more systemic, which is probably very true.

130
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it twenty years operating, and again

131
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 2: I'll speak for myself. You know, by while you were

132
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 2: coming up and you know, nineties in your hip hop,

133
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 2: I was probably dancing on a table at a nightclub

134
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: listening to Madonna. So you know, this rivalry is something,

135
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 2: of course I always heard about in the background, but really,

136
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 2: until digging in, I didn't really realize.

137
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 3: Or appreciate just how steeped this history is.

138
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 2: They had it out for each other, and murder was

139
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 2: something that happened very quickly. So Suge Knight is an insider,

140
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 2: but he's an insider on the other side.

141
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 3: So is that reliable? Who knows? Do you think it's

142
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 3: motivated by something?

143
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean, he's up for parole, he's been in and

144
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: out of prison. I mean it is big business now

145
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 2: to have the infamy and having the FaceTime. I mean,

146
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 2: he's doing a lot of press, he's been on TMC,

147
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 2: he's been on CUOMO, he's been on ABC.

148
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,880
Speaker 3: News, sowhere, he's everywhere. And is that appropriate?

149
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 2: Are we giving more of a platform for someone who's

150
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 2: also committed very bad things allegedly?

151
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 3: But look, it is Interestingfted. He's been convicted, it's not allegedly,

152
00:07:59,480 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 3: he's been.

153
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 2: And he's been in and out of prison quite a

154
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 2: few times for you know, very violent crimes, including the

155
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 2: one he's you know, serving for now in San Diego.

156
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 2: So he's no joke, but he does have an insider's look.

157
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 2: So as someone who was a part of the beehive,

158
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 2: if you will, you know, is that valid?

159
00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 6: Interesting perspective in any case. So another intersection between sug

160
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 6: Knight and Ditty is Capricorn Clark good call out. Yeah.

161
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 6: Capricorn Clark was sug Knight's assistant who then turned to

162
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,080
Speaker 6: be Ditty's assistant. Well, Capricorn took the stand and talked

163
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 6: about the violence and threats that she witnessed while working

164
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,959
Speaker 6: for Ditty, and it was staggering. She told jurors that

165
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,680
Speaker 6: Diddy said he would throw her into the East River

166
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 6: if she failed a five day lie detective test about

167
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 6: stealing jewelry. Didty was convinced someone who was stealing jewelry

168
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:57,839
Speaker 6: and it might be her.

169
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 2: Can you imagine the level of paranoia to assume a

170
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 2: that your assistant who you're paying, has stolen jewelry In

171
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 2: this case, you know, he was accusing her of stealing

172
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,400
Speaker 2: some luxury jewel and then being taken by your boss

173
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,839
Speaker 2: to a warehouse and being hooked up to a light

174
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,679
Speaker 2: detector test for by a bodyguard.

175
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, this is the kidnapping allegations, or some

176
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 4: of the kidnapping allegations, right, because she was forced to

177
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 4: stay there, she was held against her will, which is kidnapping.

178
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 4: This is a predicate act of rico of racketeering. Right,

179
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 4: that's the right deal.

180
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 3: And one of the things you're.

181
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that came up today, you know, I think

182
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 2: they're trying to poke holes in her testimony as well.

183
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 2: So even though Mia has this you know, harrowing account,

184
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 2: by the way, everybody so far has a version of

185
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 2: a harrowing account, it seems like the defense is sort

186
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 2: of poking holes at the fact that maybe some of

187
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 2: the witnesses also on social media or outwardly have posted

188
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 2: things that were very very positive about Ditty in the

189
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 2: years after the alleged abuse, and you know, that's been

190
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 2: kind of discussed a lot online. Bill Maher had talked

191
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,840
Speaker 2: about it on his show last night, basically saying, look,

192
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 2: if it's not consensual, if something's not consensual, then you know,

193
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 2: why would you text them? As I'm paraphrasing, but why

194
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,920
Speaker 2: would you text somebody or put up on social media

195
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 2: that you know you admire them.

196
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 3: Et cetera. And I get it.

197
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 2: I mean that's a I get the optics of that,

198
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,320
Speaker 2: and I understand the confusion in that. But you know,

199
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,839
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, that's like risk management

200
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 2: if you're a victim of abuse and fearing for your life,

201
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:40,119
Speaker 2: which it appears many of these assistants and employees legitimately

202
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 2: claim to fear for their lives. So a, they're putting

203
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 2: their lives on the line by testifying. And then also

204
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 2: that is pretty scary stuff. So yeah, sometimes you might say, oh,

205
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, Ditty's wonderful, but really you're just trying to

206
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 2: sort of play in Ditty's world.

207
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,640
Speaker 3: It's almost like you're yourself safe. The backlash for.

208
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,080
Speaker 6: Safety calm the Beast absolutely and listen. They also testified

209
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 6: they had to have been completely terrified because not only

210
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 6: did she have to procure illegal and prescription drugs for Diddy,

211
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 6: the prescriptions were in her name. That goes to drug trafficking,

212
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 6: which is another Rico predicate, right, And in terms of

213
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 6: violence and terror, she also was forced to accompany Colmbs

214
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 6: to confront kid Cuddy, who you mentioned earlier, Stephanie, and

215
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 6: how she witnessed Combs beat his ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura

216
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 6: after that confrontation happened. So she's seen him beat people.

217
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,359
Speaker 6: She's been kidnapped her his will.

218
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 3: So she's really she's a really important witness.

219
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 4: She's coroborating all the you know, the Cassie Ventura testimony

220
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 4: and the kid cutting testimony, which are both really important

221
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,839
Speaker 4: for those rocketeering charges because both those drug trafficking, sex trafficking,

222
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 4: and arson and kidnapping are all predicate acts of Rico.

223
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,719
Speaker 4: And again you only need too to get acts of

224
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 4: Rico to prove Rico.

225
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 6: Later in the show, at eleven, we're talking about week

226
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 6: seven of Karen Reid's retrial, and if you don't know,

227
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,839
Speaker 6: we'll bring you up to speed. We're also going to

228
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 6: have new testimony in the Ditty trial. And a defense

229
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 6: attorney joining us to discuss the severity of some of

230
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 6: the charges, and then we'll be hearing from you. So

231
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 6: keep it right here on True Crime tonight.

232
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 2: Big updates in the Karen Reid retrial. But first we're

233
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 2: going to go back to Diddy. We had some big

234
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 2: legal questions and decided to maybe give my brother, who's

235
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 2: a great attorney, rich Lidecker, to have him answer some

236
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,199
Speaker 2: of the great things that we have for him. So

237
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,079
Speaker 2: he'll be joining us later in the show as well.

238
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 2: So body, where should we start. So week four in

239
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,440
Speaker 2: the Ditty trial began. We've heard from Capricorn Clark, who

240
00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,239
Speaker 2: was his former assistant, about the alleged abuse that she received.

241
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 2: But then we also heard now from Mia.

242
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 4: Okay, we touched on her a little bit in the

243
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 4: first segment, but we're gonna kind of get into more

244
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 4: details now. So she says that she was emotionally and

245
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 4: physically and sexually assaulted by Ditty while working for him.

246
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,720
Speaker 4: So today she was cross examined, and of course those

247
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 4: cross examinations are very contentious.

248
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 5: Right.

249
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 4: Well, here's some of the things that she's saying. Okay,

250
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 4: so she is saying that, you know, the highs were

251
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 4: really high. Working with Ditty, it was fabulous, but the

252
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 4: lows were like terribly, terribly low. There were times when

253
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 4: she wouldn't sleep for days. She testified that she didn't

254
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 4: sleep for five days one time, and that she was

255
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 4: living on adderall. She said that her her duty is

256
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 4: mainly included, like his social media presence, protecting him, you know,

257
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 4: staying within his eyesight, which is very strange to me,

258
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 4: but okay. She said that he was very violent with her.

259
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 4: She testified several ways in which Combes was, you know,

260
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 4: throwing things at her, throwing her against the wall, and

261
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 4: she also testified that he sexually assaulted her on more

262
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 4: than one occasion. Well, keeping all that in mind, the

263
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 4: defense attorney for Diddy Brian Steele, who by the way,

264
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 4: is best known for successfully defending rapper Young Thug on

265
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,199
Speaker 4: racketeering charges.

266
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 3: That's right, right.

267
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 4: So he's kind of like a big time guy. He

268
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 4: just got off somebody for this. He's also represented Drake. Wow,

269
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 4: I didn't know. That's that's crazy. Well, anyway, he showed

270
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 4: her a text message that she sent Ditty. She texted

271
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 4: Ditty and said, oh my god, I had a dream

272
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 4: last night. It was a nightmare about r Kelly. She said,

273
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 4: I screamed for you and you came to rescue me.

274
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 4: And Ditty's lawyer is like, listen, if he's doing all

275
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,520
Speaker 4: these terrible things to you, why are you texting him?

276
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 4: You know you are my protector.

277
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,640
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, but that again, that tracks just we were

278
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 2: just talking about. Keep in mind, at that exact same

279
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 2: time we spoke about this briefly last night, Diddy's then

280
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 2: x kim porter, the mother of several of his children,

281
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,120
Speaker 2: had also just recently passed.

282
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 5: Right.

283
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 2: It was a very unusual time in this Diddy bubble

284
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: from what we're told, and she was fearful. So yeah,

285
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 2: why not just you know, please the person keep the

286
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 2: optics cool, let him know.

287
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 3: That, hey, we're good, we're good, nothing to see here.

288
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 2: Please don't come after me with a hammer because I'm

289
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 2: afraid from my life and we're cool.

290
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,080
Speaker 4: Right, So, and then you know, she basically said that

291
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 4: the defense is cherry picking. You know these text messages.

292
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 4: There was over fifty text messages he asked her to read,

293
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 4: and they were all very like positive. Mea explained that,

294
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 4: you know, those positive text messages were basically the byproduct

295
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 4: of her being brainwashed, and I think that to your point, Stephanie,

296
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 4: earlier you had mentioned that, you know, it's probably also

297
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 4: like self preservation in a way, right, Like if I'm

298
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 4: positive outwardly, then he's not going to come at me, right, Yeah,

299
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 4: it's kind of like she's protecting herself in light of

300
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 4: everybody else having all these shoes with Ditty. In fact,

301
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 4: he asked her, the defense attorney asked her, why didn't

302
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 4: you tell Cassie to leave Ditty after you witnessed the abuse,

303
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 4: And she replied and said she didn't really felt like

304
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 4: it was her place. She didn't feel like she could.

305
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 4: I remember covering for him when he forced me to

306
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 4: and feeling really terrible about it.

307
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 2: Right, her Spidey sense was like going crazy. But keep

308
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 2: in mind, Cassie really couldn't leave. There was tapes, there's

309
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 2: visual proof of something really hideous.

310
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 3: So even if Cassie did leave, he.

311
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 2: Had threatened her, you know, by her account, and also

312
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 2: had this revenge porn, so there was really nowhere to go.

313
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: And allegedly, according to Cassie Ventura's mother, he was also

314
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 2: threatening her family. So imagine you're getting threats to your

315
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 2: mother and to your father and you're fearing for their safety.

316
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 2: He said that he was going to make sure that

317
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: mom and dad lost their jobs. So you know, Cassie

318
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 2: was in this bubble. She really couldn't escape it, according

319
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: to her testimony. And now you know, this all just

320
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 2: reinforces it. So we're hearing from me it's more of

321
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 2: the same, but it is coroborating something really scary.

322
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 6: I'm Courtney Armstrong with Stephanie Leidecker and Body movin. We're

323
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 6: talking about the p Ditty case and are about to

324
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 6: hear from a guest.

325
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,640
Speaker 3: Yes, we have a guest.

326
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 2: It's actually my big brother, who is a very fancy attorney,

327
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 2: Rich Lidecker. He used to be a prosecutor in New

328
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,160
Speaker 2: York and he dealt with major crimes, civil crimes, racketeering cases.

329
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 2: He worked as a New York prosecutor, so he's no joke.

330
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 2: He also has his very fancy law firm that has

331
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 2: firms all across the country, and he's going to kind

332
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 2: of break down some of this racketeering stuff for us

333
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,920
Speaker 2: in layman's terms. If he's here, Rich, can you hear us?

334
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I can hear you all.

335
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 2: Nice welcome big brother. I'm so happy you're here.

336
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 7: Thank you very much for having me.

337
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 3: It's funny.

338
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 2: When rich was in law school he would do these

339
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,440
Speaker 2: mock trials, and then when he started working at the

340
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 2: prosecution's office, I used to go there and sneak in

341
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 2: there and watch him be a trial attorney. And he

342
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 2: used to deal with all these like really scary major criminals.

343
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 2: And he would get up there and say, I'm Richard Leidecker,

344
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 2: and I defend we the people. And I would get

345
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 2: goose pimples from head to toe because he was really

346
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 2: putting away bad guys. So, Rich, I know you've handled

347
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 2: so many racketeering cases. So can you break it down

348
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 2: for us? Because I feel like we're we're getting a

349
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 2: little confused, or at least I am is why would

350
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 2: did he be charged not for rape or sexual assault

351
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,959
Speaker 2: or violence domestic violence as opposed to racketeering, which is

352
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: this like big scary word.

353
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 3: But can you break it down? What's the basic terms

354
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 3: for that?

355
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 7: I think I could sum up as somebody who brought

356
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,120
Speaker 7: a lot of these cases myself is you know, racketeering

357
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 7: is one longer sentences, right, so it punishes a group

358
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,919
Speaker 7: of criminal acts harder than just the individual acts. And

359
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,639
Speaker 7: when you say racketeering, you know, yeah, yeah, I mean

360
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 7: I could give you a thousand cases and all the

361
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 7: legal stuff, but I can just sum it all up

362
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 7: and just think.

363
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,719
Speaker 8: Of like the Godfather, right, and there's an ongoing criminal

364
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 8: enterprise here, it's a family that's in the business. These

365
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 8: are all sort of analogous words in the business of

366
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 8: just committing crime, right, And it's not just one crime

367
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 8: here and there.

368
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 7: Like the rape, the sexual trafficking, the sexual assault. But

369
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 7: I think the legislatures throughout the country have all came

370
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 7: to the conclusion that when there's an ongoing criminal enterprise,

371
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 7: almost like the MS thirteen gangs that would probably fall

372
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 7: within that same category, that there's a larger danger to

373
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 7: society because of the ongoingness, the coordinatedness. It becomes like

374
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 7: the head of a giant stake. So the sentencing goes up.

375
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 7: And from a prosecutor perspective, so it also broadens the

376
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 7: things you can talk about a trial, right because generally,

377
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 7: if you go rop a bank or shoot somebody, judge says, okay,

378
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,360
Speaker 7: at this particular moment, tell me who you shot, tell

379
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 7: me who you robbed, or tell me what you did,

380
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 7: and he limits you under most rules on the evidence

381
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 7: rules to just talking about that little issue. But when

382
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 7: you got to.

383
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 8: Prove an ongoing criminal enterprise, all of a sudden it

384
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 8: could open up and make relevant like years of time.

385
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 8: That's where you see all the things that you're all discussing.

386
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 8: The ability to put more and more evidence from the

387
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 8: jury comes out. So that and racketeering, you've got to

388
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 8: prove ongoing enterprise as opposed to just the individual crimes.

389
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 8: So you got a lot more to prove, you got

390
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 8: a lot more witnesses. It's a lot more headache, but

391
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 8: the consequences are far larger. And if you bring a

392
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 8: racketeering case, you're likely to plea bargain that down because

393
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 8: the sentencings are so high.

394
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 7: I mean, you can get twenty the life on these

395
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 7: on these things.

396
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, didd he's looking at a life sentence, right, So

397
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 2: is there a thing involved? And again not to get

398
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 2: to in the weeds on the law, but double jeopardy

399
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: for example, like say, for example, in an alternate universe

400
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 2: that did he gets pardoned by President Trump again just

401
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: putting this out there as a pretend example, could he

402
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: then be tried again under the state's law, or is

403
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: that considered maybe double jeopardy.

404
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 8: Well, I think you that's a great question. I think

405
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 8: you should have hit it on the head. And when

406
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 8: you say, under the state's law, right, so generally double jeopardy,

407
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 8: as most of us know, is you can't be put

408
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 8: on trial twice or put at jeopardy twice if you've

409
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 8: been prosecuted once.

410
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 7: That's enough.

411
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 8: He got off, He got off. That's it's done. But

412
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 8: the question becomes is when the federal government does it.

413
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 8: Can the states come back and get another bite of

414
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 8: the apple?

415
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 7: Right? Right?

416
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 8: And basically I can tell you if the states vary,

417
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 8: and it depends upon the state code. New York, we couldn't.

418
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 8: And a lot of times we would disagree with the

419
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 8: Feds all the time because they would jump in and

420
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 8: take one of our cases and then they dismiss it

421
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 8: or work out a plea bargain, and then we couldn't

422
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 8: go back after them under state laws because our state

423
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 8: law said we couldn't. We couldn't bring the subsequent prosecution.

424
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 8: Some states aren't like that, so it might very well

425
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 8: apply that there might be but I could promise you

426
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 8: it'll be a giant legal brew haha, fight over whether

427
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 8: or not double Jeffardy's attached. It's a very gray, ambiguous

428
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 8: area of the law.

429
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 3: So interesting. Yeah, I mean, there's been so many antics today.

430
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 2: It appears, you know, in the testimony even today the

431
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: defense attorney and again this is just like online chatter

432
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 2: about today's testimony. They were really saying how the defense

433
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 2: to Diddy was being almost not victim shaming might not

434
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: be the right word or term, but in some ways

435
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: was kind of being a little aggressive to the witness Mia,

436
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: And is that a strategy? Is that bad optics?

437
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 8: You know, it's funny. I would have said, like, you

438
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 8: could never do that and get away with it, and so.

439
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 7: I always be polite.

440
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 8: I would make my points and you know, you kill

441
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 8: them with kindness, but you would never get away with that.

442
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: Thank you for calling in, Richard. We're definitely gonna have

443
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: to have you come back. We're going to be discussing

444
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 2: more about the Ditty case and also Karen Reid, the

445
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: defense really coming in hot in her new retrial. We're

446
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 2: very divided about this one, and there have been some

447
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: really shocking developments today and I can't wait to dig in.

448
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 3: So, Courtney, where should we begin.

449
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 6: Okay, we're in the seventh week of this murder retrial

450
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 6: for Karen Reid, and the prosecution has rested. The defense

451
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 6: has just begun, and I got to say, I think

452
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 6: they're coming in really hot, very strong in my opinion.

453
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 6: As a reminder a body, I know you're already, like

454
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 6: Stephanie said, we're divided.

455
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 3: No, I think I'm moving. I think I'm changing. I

456
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: might be changing now. So that is so ironic, let's

457
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 3: find out.

458
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 6: So just here as a quick reminder, Karen Reid is

459
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 6: accused of running over her Boston Police Office Sir John

460
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 6: O'Keeffe with her SUV after a night of heavy drinking,

461
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 6: and the allegation is that she dropped she went to

462
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 6: the bottom of this driveway and backed her car over

463
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 6: him and knowingly left him for dead. Okay, her defense

464
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 6: is very different, that she dropped him at the bottom

465
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 6: of that driveway, he walked up into the house with

466
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 6: fellow police officers who were having a similarly big night

467
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 6: of revelry and drinking and debauchery. That something went wrong

468
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 6: in there, some kind of altercation that then turned into

469
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 6: those officers planting John O'Keeffe's body in the snow and

470
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 6: framing Karen Reid and being the ones doing the investigation,

471
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 6: they would be the ones to do it. If that's

472
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 6: the case. Again, two sides to every coin. So that's

473
00:24:53,680 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 6: what's been happening. And today there was some crazy, crazy witnesses.

474
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 6: Jonathan Diamantis. So he is a longtime friend of one

475
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 6: of the police officers named Michael Proctor.

476
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: And he's a big deal because Michael Proctor is the

477
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 2: one that was tossed out of the last trial and

478
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: I think let go from the investigation altogether because he

479
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: was sending inappropriate texts about Karen Reid during the investigation.

480
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 6: That's exactly right, and that's what this testimony was. And yeah,

481
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 6: so he Michael Proctor's been knocked off, excuse me, knocked

482
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 6: off the case and let go.

483
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 3: He's alive, he's not dead, yees o.

484
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 6: Retty well, but his friend, this man who seemed lovely.

485
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 6: I watched his whole testimony, Jonathan Diamantis. He was friend

486
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 6: since middle school with trooper Michael Proctor. And he couldn't

487
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 6: even read the texts out loud. The one Stephanie that

488
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 6: you mentioned were inappropriate. He got to a point and said,

489
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 6: these are not my words. And there was a quick

490
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 6: sidebar and then it was taken over by the attorney.

491
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 6: But these text messages, they really go to concerns about

492
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 6: the credibility of the officers handling the investigation, and they

493
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 6: were derogatory, They were unprofessional to say the least, and

494
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 6: they were somewhere sexual in nature. You know. Some of

495
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 6: the really tame ones were where Proctor was saying of

496
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 6: Karen Reid, the woman he is in charge of investigating, quote,

497
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 6: she's a whack job. He uses the S word to

498
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 6: describe her, and then goes on to say she's a babe.

499
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 6: She's got a weird Falls River accent though, and no

500
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 6: ass Again, just wildly inappropriate and partial.

501
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: Right, So the idea, if you're the investigator and you

502
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: guys are trying to find justice, you want there to

503
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 2: be some partial investigators happening, right. So, I think the

504
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: real crux of this case is whether or not there's

505
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: some sort of a cover up, if in fact evidence

506
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: had been planted. Is she getting a fair trial, Because,

507
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: like we talked about last night, the investigation was, you know,

508
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: by any standard, was handled inappropriately. You know, as a reminder,

509
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: they were collecting specimens from the crime scene in solo

510
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 2: cups and putting them in plastic in paper bags.

511
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: You know, it was the equivalent of the three of.

512
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: Us doing a high stakes operation, which is fine except

513
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: for the fact that it's life and death. And in

514
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: Karen Reid's case, can you imagine if you're claiming your

515
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: innocence because you're now your boyfriend, you know, died and

516
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: he was a veteran of the police force in Boston.

517
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: These are all his buddies that are doing this investigation.

518
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: And that air quotes family of brotherhood. Is that appropriate

519
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: when actually bringing something to justice? That brotherhood could also

520
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: be considered, you know, kind of like stacking the system

521
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: against Karen. Does she really a stand a chance? The

522
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: fact is they don't like her, period, and does that

523
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: mean they're going to railroad her?

524
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: You know, that's the big question. I don't know, Well,

525
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: I've got some concerns about this brotherhood.

526
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 6: Okay, the next person who was on the stand and

527
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 6: this I've actually never seen anything like it.

528
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: It was it was law, you know, it was right

529
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: at us. It seems as though they're actors at this point.

530
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 6: Yes, so Kelly never takes the stand and she looks professional.

531
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 6: She is an officer and looks like she's going to

532
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 6: be a great witness and then turns into an absolutely

533
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 6: hostile witness. And this officer had all boiled down to

534
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 6: what she saw or did not see. So at the

535
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 6: time that at the time that this happened John O'Keefe's death.

536
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 6: Whether it was who did it, we don't know yet.

537
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 6: She was working that evening dispatch got a call that

538
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 6: there was a body in the snow, and then Kelly

539
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 6: Dover was told to go back into the dispatch room,

540
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 6: meaning get out of her patrol car, go back into

541
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 6: the office. In the office, there are all of these

542
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 6: video screens where you can kind of see what's going

543
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 6: on in the hallways and in a garage. Importantly, very importantly, yes,

544
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 6: and I know, body, I feel like you have stuff

545
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 6: to say about this. But Kelly Dever was saying, I

546
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 6: don't even know why I'm here. I have no connection

547
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 6: to this case. She was saying the word no before

548
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 6: the questions could come out of the attorney's mouth. So,

549
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 6: but she was on call that night and right when

550
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 6: it happened, she said that she had seen officers looking

551
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 6: for a quote oddly long time. I believe that's a

552
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 6: quote at the car that allegedly hit John O'Keefe in

553
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 6: the garage when it happened, so that would be important

554
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 6: that they were looking for way too long. Then turns

555
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 6: out she said, oh no, no, that didn't happen, and

556
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 6: I was already gone from my shift. I never saw anything.

557
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 6: And then she alleges the defense team of trying to

558
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 6: get her to perjure herself.

559
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 3: She was being a bit indignant as well.

560
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure I totally appreciate the garage piece

561
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: of it. So why is that such a hot ticket item.

562
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 4: Because the defense well, it's actually I think very true

563
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 4: that the state inverted the video, you know, in that garage,

564
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 4: and it looks like they inverted it to hide the fact.

565
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 4: And I could be incorrect, So somebody call in and

566
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: let me know if I'm wrong. They're trying to hide

567
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: the fact that there was an officer by that tail

568
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 4: light for way too long.

569
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: And for her to be like.

570
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm here, it seems very like, okay,

571
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: you know, I'm like rolling my eyes, right, it's just

572
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: not you know exactly why you're here, by the.

573
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: Way you know why you're here, and by you giving

574
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: all this pause and acting weird and indignant on this stade.

575
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: It's also kind of suspicious, right, it makes it more

576
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: suspicious likely And to your point, by I forgot about that,

577
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: because that's a really important detail because her tail light,

578
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: so Karen read has a car that she peeled out

579
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: in this snowstorm in the middle of the night, drunk

580
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: as a skunk. All of them were, you know, that's

581
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 2: not a formal legal term, but she peels out and

582
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: allegedly her tail light is like the smoking gun. That's

583
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: where you know, proof that she hit him, killed him,

584
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: ran him over, and dipped.

585
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: So now they're saying that they inverted that.

586
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: Video, which would be counterintuitive to some of this these

587
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: forensics basically, right, that would basically say.

588
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, this all lines up.

589
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: Well not really, it doesn't really line up if the

590
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: video has been inverted, like, that's crazy making to me.

591
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 2: That would be like, uh, okay, we're done, let's all

592
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: go home now, goodbye.

593
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 6: That's right. And then so what she attributed her initial

594
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 6: saying she saw the videos, she said, it's a quote

595
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 6: false memory, and yes, she.

596
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: Didn't need to know that. She said it was a

597
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: false memory.

598
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 6: That's right, she said, I didn't and she was blaming

599
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 6: the media actually and saying the media. I've seen videos. Yes,

600
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 6: I'm aware that it's in the you know that things

601
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 6: happen in the garage. Yes, I'm aware there was video,

602
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 6: but she initially was like, I'm not sure if there

603
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 6: were any video screens even in the dispatch.

604
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: That's where she works. That's where she works.

605
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's a little Boston too, right,

606
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: in a great way, because I love Boston from New York.

607
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: So you know, it's like snitches get stitches, you know,

608
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: we don't, you know, we don't take each other out.

609
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: Certainly if you're at your job. There's like a code.

610
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: You know, I get it, and we all understand it.

611
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: But now this is an illegal code at this point.

612
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: So you have to speak the truth because these are

613
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: really important pieces to this trial.

614
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: And Karen Reid is looking at life behind.

615
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: Bars and her first trial already ended in the mistrial

616
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 4: exactly right. This is her retrial, so like everything's on

617
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 4: the line right now, and they did they're not calling

618
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: certain witnesses now.

619
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: I mean it's like the state.

620
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: Learned, Oh Proctor for instance, right, we're not bringing him back.

621
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: So what does the defense do?

622
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: They bring his friend who received those text messages, like

623
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: that's this miss the mistrial is definitely giving a leg

624
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 4: up to the defense.

625
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: I think one thing I will say, because you know,

626
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: I think that Karen Reid, despite people saying she's unlikable,

627
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: I'm just regardless of that, and even regardless if she's

628
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: innocent or guilty. I just don't think the investigation was

629
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: handled very well. And that to me is the scary

630
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: part of this whole story. But at this point, what

631
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: happens next, Like how many more things does Karen Reid

632
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: have to have in her corner to say there was

633
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: a miscarriage of justice, there was a bad investigation. People

634
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: are lying on the stand, people are getting called out

635
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: like they're in law and order literally, So what happens.

636
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 4: Well, we're gonna find out. We're gonna find out. Stay tuned.

637
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 4: We want to hear all your thoughts. Call us at

638
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: eight eight, eight thirty one Crime and I believe we

639
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 4: have a caller on the line that we're going to

640
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: take in the next segment. Stay tuned. The case that

641
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 4: shock the Nation is not over. Stay tuned for Mari

642
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 4: Fallow in the soci.

643
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: Called Dean Stage.

644
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: Let's go to our caller Tina, because she has some

645
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: insight or a question regarding Karen Reid.

646
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: Hi, Tina, Hey, how are y'all? Hi? Thanks for Colin.

647
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: We're so happy to talk to you. Tell us your question.

648
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 8: Thanks.

649
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 9: What do y'all think about the testimony today with the

650
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 9: doctor talking about the dog bite or the puncture wounds

651
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 9: and all of that, because I have a I mean

652
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 9: I agreed with her. What do y'all feel about that?

653
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 5: All right?

654
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 6: I love this question so much. This is Courtney, Thank

655
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 6: you for calling. Just for anyone who's knock who didn't

656
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 6: watch the trial like you did today. The person who

657
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 6: testified is a woman named doctor Marie Russell. She's an

658
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 6: emergency doctor and a forensic pathologist. She actually testified and

659
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 6: Karen read first trial and she stated that the wounds

660
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 6: on O'Keefe victim O'Keeffe's arms were likely caused by an

661
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: animal attack and most likely a large dog. And I

662
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 6: think I think it was really compelling testimony. I mean,

663
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 6: it certainly speaks to what the defense says, which is

664
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 6: that something did happen to John O'Keeffe inside that home

665
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 6: and that you know, he got bitten potentially it was

666
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 6: then dragged outside and potentially beaten up in a basement

667
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 6: and things.

668
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: And by the way, interestingly, whether this is you know,

669
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: just you know, divine timing, serendipitous or odd andsuspicious that

670
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: said dog that was at the house that night has

671
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: been has been given away. It was you know, it

672
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: wasn't a fit for the family, so it's been readopted elsewhere.

673
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: So frankly, there's really no dog to actually check any longer.

674
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 2: Which again, is that just you know, convenient? Is that suspicious?

675
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: You know? The question really also is on the one hand,

676
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: you know again, how I feel about this Karen read thing.

677
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: I just think, you know, listen, if there's any doubt,

678
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: you know, they're saying, oh it was because they hit

679
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: his body, or it was the injuries on his arm

680
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 2: came from the tail light, or it was the glass

681
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: that he was holding. Why would he not have scrapes

682
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: on his hands? Also, if the glass broke in his hand,

683
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: where are those scrapes? And the dog just mysteriously disappearing

684
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: seems so suspicious to me personally allegedly allegedly allegedly, but.

685
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: Didn't they didn't they DNA test that though? Isn't there

686
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 4: something with DNA testing like the bite like the quote

687
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: unquote bite wounds or no.

688
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: I don't think there is any DNA that I'm aware of.

689
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: But if anybody is listening that actually does have that answer,

690
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: please I jump in. Tell us, tell us, tell us, Tina,

691
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 2: So do you think guilty or not guilty? Okay, we

692
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: don't hear Tina. I'm gonna say that I think Tina

693
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 2: feels like there's a guilty critic InCAR does feel that

694
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: she's guilty because the way she asked the question, what

695
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 2: do you think about the dog bites?

696
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 4: Right right, right, So when you're asking a question and

697
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 4: you're already like coming up with the answer, well that

698
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 4: it's dog bites.

699
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 3: And I mean, I.

700
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 4: Think Tina probably feels that Karen Rei is guilty. And

701
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 4: I have to be honest, you know. I know yesterday

702
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 4: I was kind of like on team guilty, but I

703
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 4: might be changing my mind. I'm I'm very open.

704
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a little divided. Listen.

705
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: I don't think she's getting a fair trial. But one

706
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: thing I don't totally get. If this, you know, group

707
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: of law enforcement or former law enforcement wanted to place

708
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: a body and frame her, how did they know where

709
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: she was going and how did they know she wasn't

710
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: going to come back.

711
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: So again we.

712
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: Want to make sure we're hearing from you, So jump

713
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: in on the conversation, call us at one eight eight

714
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: eight three one Crime, or you could always reach out

715
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 2: on our socials at True Crime Tonight's show for TikTok

716
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: and Instagram, and also at True Crime Tonight on Facebook,

717
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: because again this all starts with you. So later in

718
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: the show, we're going to be talking about the Weinstein case,

719
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: but first, Didty you know obviously the whole world is

720
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: talking about Diddy right now, and again because we're now

721
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: tracking this every day, we just want to make sure

722
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: everyone's caught up on some of the testimony we've heard

723
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 2: so far, we haven't even covered, for example, the fact

724
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: that Didty you know, had his assistant actually testified it

725
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 2: today again for the second time, and then also his

726
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: former stylist that was also Cassie, his ex girlfriend's former stylist,

727
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: and he also really reiterated the fact that Cassie Ventura

728
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: felt as though she was being almost held captive, that

729
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 2: she did not want to participate in the freak Offs anymore,

730
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: and that he witnessed didty being extremely violent with her

731
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: time and time again and very very controlling. He told

732
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: a story that she had her hair up and Diddy

733
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: apparently saw her hair up in like a twist and

734
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: right away, in this very big fancy event, said no, no, no,

735
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: I want her hair down. I want her hair down,

736
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: and then forced you know, Deonta to kind of take

737
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: her hair down because that's the way he liked her

738
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 2: to be. And again, this is a small thing. It's

739
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: very different than you know, getting beaten up. But it

740
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: only speaks to the fact that she was not a

741
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: willing participant at a certain point, in the fact that

742
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: you know did he had threatened her parents and said

743
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: that he was going to again release these sex tapes

744
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: to her parents' jobs, and that he was going to

745
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: make sure that her parents lost their jobs. That in

746
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: and of itself could really make you stay in a

747
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: horrible situation. Sometimes, if you're the victim of abuse, when

748
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: we've heard this many times, you know you're putting your

749
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: own self on the line. Okay, made a bad decision.

750
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: I had to take the blame for it. This is

751
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: again potential victim mentality. But once they start threatening your

752
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 2: circle and your loved ones and your friends, your parents.

753
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: Can you imagine? It really feels like there's nowhere to hide, right,

754
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: So his testimony I thought was extremely compelling and again

755
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: only reinforced today by the recent testimony of Mia Courtney.

756
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: What are you thinking about all this?

757
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 6: You know, well, he also did assault Deontay Nash. Did

758
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 6: he being Ditty? You know in that hair up hair

759
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 6: down incident, which from everything we've been seeing and that's

760
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 6: been coming out, it seems like even the smallest instances

761
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 6: could really become episodes of explosions for him. So Diddy

762
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 6: lifted Nash up by his jacket off the ground. Again,

763
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 6: that's as salt. You don't put your hands on a

764
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 6: human when they don't want to.

765
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 4: So it seems like when Diddy didn't have or when

766
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 4: he lost control of something, he lashed out right. And

767
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 4: I have to say, I'm not defending Diddy, but like

768
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 4: you know, Ditty's in charge of Cassie's image, like he's

769
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 4: her manager. He's taking her her thing, and he's going

770
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 4: to be in charge of how she looks and what

771
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 4: her wardrobe is and if he wants a certain style,

772
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 4: that's what Nash should have done. I mean, as her

773
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 4: image manager and whatnot for her music career. I didn't

774
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 4: necessarily think the hair thing was all that compelling. I did, however,

775
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 4: find out, you know, when he lashed out at Nash

776
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 4: for this, that I did find compelling. But the whole

777
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 4: hair up and hair down things, Okay.

778
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: I'm totally with you on that.

779
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, that's interesting point I hadn't even

780
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 2: thought of that is like, yeah, he's in the business

781
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: of her right, So if they're on a red carpet,

782
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: or if they're going to an event that falls under

783
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: the jurisdiction of a work event aircraft.

784
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, your wardrobe, your makeup, everything your you know, is

785
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 4: managed by your image, your image manager or your manager

786
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 4: who you know, whoever you take advice from in that case,

787
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: Like when I was on the like the Mole, for instance,

788
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 4: I had everything to my ear rings had to be

789
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 4: managed by wardrobe. I didn't have any choices, and you know,

790
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 4: I just didn't think that was that big of a deal.

791
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: That's true, But he was trying to defend her, you know,

792
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: and defending his friend, because he really did consider Cassie

793
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: or relief friend. So that small incidt with the hair

794
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: up hair down escalated to Courtney's point.

795
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: Certainly did because he lost control right.

796
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 6: Right, and even on the mole. Yes, were people in charge,

797
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 6: for sure, But if you got angry, would you lift

798
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 6: them off the ground by their callers?

799
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 4: I kind of wanted to, not kidding well, and even

800
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 4: though you know, of course not I would never, of

801
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 4: course not.

802
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 6: No, no rational.

803
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: Person you know would, No rational person would. But we're

804
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: not dealing necessarily with a rational person. And you know,

805
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 2: again did he has said that these were drug filled

806
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: times and they were all doing a lot of drugs,

807
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 2: whether by choice or being given those drugs. So does

808
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: that mean he gets a free pass because he has

809
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: a bad memory and is apologetic because his behavior was

810
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: terrible while using.

811
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: Does that give him like a leg up? I don't know.

812
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: To me, it seems like a joke.

813
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 6: Well, no, particularly when you're also having the people who

814
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 6: you employ, you know, create full loneous errands for them

815
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 6: to run to go get drugs for him in their

816
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 6: own name.

817
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: And it all speaks to the larger picture.

818
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: And just in case you're just joining us too, you know,

819
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: we're talking about the diddy Comb's case, Sean Diddy Combs,

820
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: and he's on trial for allegedly operating a criminal enterprise

821
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: that involves kidnapping, arson, bribery, and sex trafficking from two

822
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: thousand and four to twenty twenty four.

823
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: So that's twenty years.

824
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 4: Of twenty years the criminal activity that they're trying to prove,

825
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: and really all the testimony that we've heard so far,

826
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: even bearing the defense having pretty rough questions for the witnesses,

827
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 4: in my opinion, the testimony for you know, the federal

828
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: government has been very compelling, very me too.

829
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I completely agree. And again they're trying to

830
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: poke holes into you know, Cassie Ventura's testimony and a

831
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: lot of this testimony, and all I would say is,

832
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: you know, yes, sometimes people make a bad decision, but

833
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: you have to also look at their choices that they had,

834
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: and it seems like Cassie Ventura didn't really have any choices.

835
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: She was trapped. Yeah, she was kind of trapped. That's

836
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 3: so fair.

837
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 6: Moving to a different Manhattan courtroom, this is as we've

838
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 6: kind of been saying, the summer of trials is heating up.

839
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 6: There's a connection between P Diddy and Harvey Weinstein, whose

840
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 6: retrial is currently going on now. In fact, it starts

841
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 6: closing statements tomorrow as a reminder for folks who may

842
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,959
Speaker 6: not have a top of mind. Harvey Weinstein, he really

843
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 6: was an icon and much like Diddy in the nineties,

844
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 6: he was beloved. He was groundbreaking and helped create culture.

845
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 6: I mean, he helmed the ship on American indie films

846
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 6: and cite her House Rules, pulp fiction, Shakespeare in Love,

847
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 6: Goodwill Hunting, stuff that really strings at tugs at your

848
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 6: heart strings.

849
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 3: He was the guy.

850
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:00,959
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was the guy.

851
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: He's no longer the guy, though, what else do you

852
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 4: have for us about Weinstein? There, Courtney, so just to

853
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: catch people up.

854
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 6: So he was this icon, of course, revered, and all

855
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 6: of that really came tumbling down from the eighties all

856
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 6: the way up until twenty seventeen. And that is when

857
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 6: Harvey Weinstein was publicly accused of sexual harassment, of assault,

858
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 6: and of rape. And this was by dozens of women,

859
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 6: and I'm sure most of us will remember the Me

860
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 6: Too movement. It really was Harvey Weinstein was kind of

861
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 6: ground zero.

862
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 5: They'll cosby, Oh, Harvey weins them all of that, right, yes,

863
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 5: And the stick was that he would lure perhaps young

864
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 5: actresses to his hotel room and certain occasions, and you know,

865
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 5: kind of bribe them with potential parts or fame or

866
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: or all kinds of stuff that really promised them a

867
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 5: bigger future curry if.

868
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 3: They anticipated exactly.

869
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get in good with Harvey Weinstein, Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein,

870
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 4: you know you might get the.

871
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 3: Next part exactly.

872
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: Or if you don't participate, you'll never get apart ever,

873
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: get blackballed.

874
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: And that's a big right. I mean, I don't remember that.

875
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 4: Okay, that's another subject. Really, we'll get into that in

876
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 4: another year. It's a whale, yes, but years ago what

877
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 4: real disappeared?

878
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: I don't know any of this really, we'll get into that.

879
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 6: It's a okay, Okay, I don't know. All I have

880
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 6: is Brenda Fraser on the brain right now. So Weinstein

881
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 6: again is in a retrial. He has been behind bars

882
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 6: for convictions of rape and other assaults. But there's a

883
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 6: model named Crystal McKinney, and she filed a sexual assault

884
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 6: lawsuit against puff Daddy Diddy Combs whatever we want to

885
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 6: call him, in twenty twenty four. And this same woman

886
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 6: also filed a complaint against Weinstein this year.

887
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 4: Oh so we have a common complainer, yeah, correct, or you.

888
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 6: Know, potential victim.

889
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 3: That's what I mean.

890
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I didn't.

891
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: Mean like a complainer, not like a whiner, no, no.

892
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: No, but a common victim in common and is And

893
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: that's gotten some you know, criticism, frankly, because is it

894
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: possible that one person could you know, be victimized twice

895
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: by two very high profile people, thank you obviously, of course, right, So,

896
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 2: but that is the online chatter, and frankly, Weinstein side

897
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: is like, oh really this one again, Look how you know,

898
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: not credible she is because she's just forever putting a

899
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: complaint out There is there value in that? You know?

900
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 3: That's the I think that's the conversation piece.

901
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 6: Well, here are some of the specifics of the allegations.

902
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 6: So this happened last year in May when mckinne filed

903
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 6: that lawsuit against colmb's, and her allegation is that he

904
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 6: drugged and sexually assaulted her back in twenty excuse me,

905
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 6: two thousand and three, and that it happened after a

906
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 6: men's Fashion Week event in New York City, which is

907
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 6: certainly a place where he would be well.

908
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 4: And it's a similar story that we've heard her mother victims,

909
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 4: right okay, yep.

910
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 6: And then she alleged must much like Brendan Fraser, who

911
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 6: I want to hear about, that Holmes used his influence

912
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 6: to blacklist her in the modeling industry, and that it

913
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 6: resulted in total emotional dispress, distress and even sadly a

914
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 6: suicide attempt.

915
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Oh the year after. Yeah, well this matters.

916
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: But she's strikingly beautiful, you know. So imagine you have

917
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 2: this big career, a budding career in this really side

918
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 2: steps you absolutely.

919
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 6: And then, in a separate complaint, and this was just

920
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 6: last month, she accused Weinstein of raping both her and

921
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 6: a friend, and she said that that happened in a

922
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 6: Manhattan hotel, also in two thousand and three, and that

923
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 6: Weinstein had lured her and her friend saying, oh, I've

924
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 6: got acting roles, and then gave him a bunch of

925
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 6: alcohol before the assault. So these are the allegations out there.

926
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 6: So both of these.

927
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: Assaults happened in the same year, twenty one years ago.

928
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 6: That's right, interesting twenty two and yeah, twenty two years

929
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 6: ago in two thousand and three.

930
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, twenty two years ago. Interw that's interesting, is right?

931
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: And like, what does that really insinuate right that they

932
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: were just in this crowd. You know, imagine you got

933
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: to remember, you know, going back to Ditty in his

934
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, she was nineteen when she met Ditty.

935
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: He was seventeen years older. Now, imagine you're a young actor,

936
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: you want to be in the next big movie. The

937
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: Weinsteins ran the show, and you know your allured to

938
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 2: the hotel room plowed with booze. Who knows you know,

939
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: you can kind of see how that happens. That's I'm

940
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: so glad we get to talk about this stuff, because again,

941
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: we don't know that this is how it works if

942
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: we don't actually talk about it, not from a place

943
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: of judgment. There's a safe place exactly like, let's unpack

944
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: it because these are cautionary tales.

945
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: Also, right, well, stick around, We've got so much more

946
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 4: to dig into. We have everyone's most hated mom, Laurie

947
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: Valo day Bell, aka the Doomsday Mom.

948
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: Her third murder trial.

949
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 4: Jury selection has been delayed again, and later we're going

950
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 4: to be talking about a potential serial killer in New England.

951
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 4: Could this be true or just online rumors? Stick with

952
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: us here, True Crime Tonight.

953
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: Good old Lorie Valo. So, Laurie Valo, also known as

954
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 2: the Doomsday Mom. Are you guys familiar with this case?

955
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 3: Oh?

956
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, are you? Yeah?

957
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 2: Come on, so I'll give a little backstory. So let

958
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: me see if it's a very torrid tale. So I'm

959
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: going to give you my most aggreviated version. Yeah, it's

960
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 2: a whiteboard out. We need like a complete whiteboard and

961
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: we should also be tracking this for a while because

962
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 2: it's a very complicated case. But bottom line, Laurie Valo

963
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: is this, you know, lovely woman who has a lovely

964
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: husband and two children of her own. One of them

965
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 2: is sixteen named Kaylee, her daughter, and then she had

966
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 2: a seven year old son named JJ, who she actually

967
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 2: adopted because the natural mother of JJ thought that Laurie

968
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: was such a wonderful mother that he'd be better suited

969
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: in her care because he actually had special needs. He

970
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: was autistic. So that's how great of a mom and

971
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,959
Speaker 2: wife this woman is. So she starts reading these these

972
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: novels that have this doomsday kind of this doomsday undertone,

973
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: and she gets kind of hooked and so much so

974
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: that she's like, I want to find out who this

975
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 2: author is. So she goes to a book signing. By

976
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: the way, drives far far away many. Yeah, she like

977
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: road trips it to go to a book signing. And

978
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 2: that book signing is by Chad day Bell, and Chad

979
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 2: day Bell writes these very scary books about the afterlife,

980
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: and it's you know, scary stuff, quite frankly. And while

981
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 2: she's waiting online to get his autograph on her book,

982
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: those two luck eyes and they fall in love. Look

983
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 2: at that divine timing, and just maybe by coincidence, At

984
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 2: that same time, Chad, this author also has a very healthy,

985
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: lovely wife who he had been married to for many,

986
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: many years. They had adult children at this point, suddenly Tammy,

987
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: his wife healthy training for a marathon. She just dies

988
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 2: in her sleep one day. And then, would you believe it,

989
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: by coincidence, maybe Laurie who's now back at home with

990
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 2: her two children, her sixteen year old and her seven

991
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: year old who's again autistic. Her husband he dies, and

992
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: then her kids what are they They suddenly go missing.

993
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: And these beautiful children ultimately go missing and are found

994
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: dead and buried, having had unspeakable things done to them

995
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: in the backyard of said Chad Dave Bell, the boyfriend

996
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 2: and the Apocalypse man and their whole stick was. By

997
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: the way, when the kids were missing, You guys might

998
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: remember this. When the kids were missing, there was like

999
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: a national search, like where are you know, Kate, where

1000
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 2: are they?

1001
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: It was Casey Anthony esque exactly. We were all concerned.

1002
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she and her now new boyfriends soon to be husband, Chad,

1003
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 2: were gallivanting. There's photos of her in a white wedding dress.

1004
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: She got her nails done, she was getting a blowout,

1005
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: and everyone's looking for her children and she was essentially

1006
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: questions about her children, and she had this like really

1007
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: really creepy way about how she handled the press. She

1008
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: almost like she kind of played along with them a

1009
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: little bit, like I know, they're fine, they're safe. And

1010
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: then she goes and gets, you know, her hair done.

1011
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: So the callousness was pretty remarkable. So lo and behold

1012
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: Needlyssa say they get arrested and Chad, the husband, you

1013
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: know that she had just married in Hawaii, they get separated,

1014
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 2: and you know, the story goes. According to Lori Valo,

1015
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: is that she believed there was going to be this

1016
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 2: doomsday and by participating in the death of her kids,

1017
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: she was basically guaranteeing them some kind of a great

1018
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: space in the afterlife. But this is like a crazy

1019
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: killer mom, right. So she's killed and has been convicted

1020
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: for her two children again young sixteen and seven years old,

1021
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 2: also Charles, her ex husband, also Tammy, who was now

1022
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 2: the new husband's wife, who died in her sleep, and

1023
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: now she's again being charged. I don't mean to laugh,

1024
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 2: but it's like, what is Laurie doing with all her

1025
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: for her time. It's unbelievable. But she's now being charged with

1026
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: her niece's ex husband's murder as well. So this is

1027
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 2: a killing spree, which frankly makes her, you know, a

1028
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 2: serial killer. She just also attempted murder. I should say, yeah,

1029
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 2: by the way, that's a very big distinction. Thank you

1030
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 2: for thank you for sharing that. You're right apparently the

1031
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 2: niece and her then you know her, then you know

1032
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 2: ex husband. They were driving in a car and somebody

1033
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 2: pulled up beside them and it felt like it was

1034
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 2: a hit.

1035
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: He survives.

1036
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: But again, this all seems to tie back to good

1037
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: old Lorie and good old Chad day Bell. So she's

1038
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: still going to all of these trials, right. Needless to say,

1039
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: the Doom's Day was back in twenty twenty.

1040
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 3: She was behind bars.

1041
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: I remember this because Courtney, you and I were working

1042
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace at that time, Yes, and we were

1043
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: doing an episode about this, and again we were like

1044
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 2: really down the rabbit hole, but the doomsday date kind

1045
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 2: of got in my screwy head. So when it came

1046
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: to that actual Doom's Day that Laurie had predicted, I

1047
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: was a little nervous.

1048
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 6: Okay, not to you a countdown. I mean we were

1049
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 6: very well aware.

1050
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 2: Well, Laurie's now decided she's representing herself in this PA

1051
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: because you know, she's completely capable. She's been studying the

1052
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 2: law behind bars, and she's decided she's going to represent herself.

1053
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: And you know, she's still claiming her innocence at the

1054
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: end of the day. So the trial was supposed to

1055
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: kick in, but instead Laurie rolls in in a wheelchair

1056
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 2: because she's not feeling well and is I guess very sick.

1057
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: And therefore this trial is delayed yet again. And what

1058
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 2: a waste of time and resources. At this point, you know,

1059
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 2: she's been convicted many times on very hideous charges. She's

1060
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 2: not going to see the light of day any longer?

1061
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: Why are we wasting the time and energy on Laurie

1062
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: Valo at this point? And again she's sucking the air

1063
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 2: at the courtroom and kind of making a mockery of it.

1064
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 6: A total mockery. Yeah, her and the judge are really

1065
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 6: they're beefing at this point. I mean, you know, she

1066
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 6: is not only delaying the jury duty. She followed emotion

1067
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 6: alleging the judge had personal biased and prejudice and rachel

1068
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 6: discrimination against her that's been denied.

1069
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: Can you imagine the.

1070
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 6: Nerve personal bias and prejudice and religious discrimination religious because these.

1071
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: Are these are her duty day beliefs that she believes

1072
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: that there is this very sinister afterlife, and she and

1073
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: those that have now seen their end of days, frankly

1074
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 2: thanks to her, that they're promised a better life in

1075
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: Heaven's above.

1076
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 6: But Stephanie, I think you use the word I think

1077
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 6: you use the word mockery. And literally her and the

1078
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 6: dudg are going back and forth, and just today Laurie

1079
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 6: told the judge, Oh, you're welcome to come to jail

1080
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 6: and see how I'm doing, to check fum really sick,

1081
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 6: And the judge was like, yeah, quote I'm going to

1082
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 6: pass on that.

1083
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 4: Isn't this like the second time that she's been delayed

1084
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 4: in these trials like his, And she's done this before

1085
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 4: in the previous one when she was convicted of Charles Wallow.

1086
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 3: Yes, she pulled the same stunt. And think about the

1087
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 3: costs involved.

1088
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 2: It's jury selection, it's judge times, and when there are

1089
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: real problems in the courthouses right now, those are real

1090
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: cases that need jelog thank you, exactly exactly.

1091
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 4: People are literally sitting in jail waiting for their day

1092
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 4: in court and they keep getting put behind because.

1093
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 3: Of stupid Laurie Daybill exactly. And listen.

1094
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: And there doesn't seem to be any shame in her game,

1095
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: by the way, either. She still sort of walks the talk.

1096
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: If you've never seen photographs of her and stuff, she

1097
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: used to be like, you know, very glamorous. We actually

1098
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: interviewed people that worked with her at the time, and

1099
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: she was apparently like the greatest little housewife and she

1100
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: was very beloved. We interviewed one of the hair stylists

1101
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: that worked at the salon that she was also a

1102
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: hairdresser at, and they were like, she was the best.

1103
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 3: She was just.

1104
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: Lovely until she met this Chad. Whether that's true or not, well,

1105
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: of course we'll never know. But talk about a perfect

1106
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: storm of psycho I mean, how does that happen? How

1107
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 2: does that happen?

1108
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 3: Does that?

1109
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 2: Are we attracting that because you know, we're crossing over

1110
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: into crazy land ourselves and therefore we're getting we're kind

1111
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 2: of in that orbit.

1112
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 6: I know. Is it a brainwashing? It is, it's it's

1113
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 6: a lot of questions. Was she quote brainwashed or was

1114
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 6: she looking for a way there? There has to be

1115
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 6: something like I would describe this woman as demonic.

1116
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 4: It's almost like you want to know why so that

1117
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 4: you can see if it's happening to you at some point,

1118
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 4: Like exactly, I'm so into like the cults and whatnot,

1119
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 4: and I worry that, you know, somehow I'm gonna get

1120
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 4: like swept up in something like this. I mean that

1121
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 4: whenever you would never have well, I know how you know,

1122
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 4: I feel like that's why I want to know, like

1123
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 4: how did this happen? Why did how did Lorie Dabell

1124
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 4: go from this wonderful mother who adopted you know JJ.

1125
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 4: She was such a good mom, you know, like that's

1126
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 4: how she got JJ.

1127
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 3: How did how did it.

1128
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 4: Go from this to her killing her children exactly and

1129
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 4: every somebody else around her allegedly as well.

1130
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 2: And keep in mind whether that was accurate or not,

1131
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 2: or was she just born with a screw loose? And

1132
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: now it's like the perfect storm where little by little Kay.

1133
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 4: Was always supposed to go crazy at this point, right,

1134
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 4: she might have always been a horrible person.

1135
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 6: Well, and she was giving off some bad vibes or

1136
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 6: whatever you want to call it, because didn't her former

1137
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 6: husband didn't he call police or contact police?

1138
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: Charles, Yes, he did, Charles Charles. He said, my wife

1139
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: is a nut. She's talking all kinds of crazy. She's

1140
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: talking about this afterlife and the apocalypse and saying our

1141
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: kids are zombies. And he was reaching out to authorities,

1142
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 2: and then that kind of went sort of nowhere, and

1143
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 2: then sure enough, he turns up dead. It was actually

1144
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 2: Lori Valow's brother that shoots who by the way and

1145
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 2: kills him and then he.

1146
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 3: Dies by the way.

1147
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 4: He died under suspicious circumstances as far as I'm concerned.

1148
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 2: Correct, And his wife at the time has gone on

1149
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: record as saying the night before he died allegedly of

1150
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: natural causes, he said out loud, I feel like Lori

1151
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: and you know, chat are going to try to pin

1152
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 2: this on me or they're out to get me.

1153
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: Well, he need too much, he knew too much.

1154
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did that video. If we should put this

1155
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: on the website too. If you've never seen this video

1156
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: of Lorii, she was literally was her husband is just killed.

1157
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 3: Her brother is like it was self defense.

1158
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: It was self defense. The cops show up. She's new

1159
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: to the neighbors. The kids are there, the daughter is

1160
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 2: right there, and they have this like bodycam footage from

1161
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 2: the police and.

1162
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 3: She is just like smiling. Her husband just was murdered.

1163
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: They went to Oh my goodness, it's like jaw dropping

1164
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: and impossible to imagine.

1165
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 3: No, I can't imagine.

1166
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 4: I mean they I think she took JJ to Burger

1167
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 4: King and yeah, they they kill Racily and the brother, Alex,

1168
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 4: who is sitting on the curb, and he's like, yeah,

1169
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 4: it was self def and Laurie's just loo so nonchalant,

1170
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 4: just kind of easy. She was like, I want to

1171
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 4: apologize to the neighbors. Yeah, I want to apologize. I

1172
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 4: feel terrible. I'm new disgusting.

1173
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: So we have been talking about all kinds of scary

1174
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 2: things in serial killers. We were just talking about Lori Valo,

1175
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 2: the Doomsday mom, and you know, she's been charged with

1176
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 2: the death of her own children, also her ex husband,

1177
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: also her new husband's former wife. That's four people. Now

1178
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 2: there's a potential fifth. You know, this fifth person wasn't murdered,

1179
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: but it was an attempted murder.

1180
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 3: Does that make her a serial killer?

1181
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 4: That's such a good question because she's never referred to

1182
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 4: as a serial killer.

1183
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she always maybe because she's only killing her

1184
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: own faces.

1185
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 6: But we should actually ask an expert about that, because

1186
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 6: I believe the definition is what three or more people

1187
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 6: makes a serial down period with pulling down. So but

1188
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 6: if it's familial versus I don't strangers, So we should

1189
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 6: let's plan on getting an expert in here.

1190
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 4: Because that's you know, to give us a call. Yeah,

1191
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 4: exactly one crime. We had to have a we can crowdsource.

1192
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 4: Come on, get up in here. I'm all about the crowdsourcing.

1193
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 4: You know, I want to hear about it. Speaking of crowdsourcing,

1194
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 4: so you know this is there's a possible Well, there's

1195
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 4: a lot of chatter. I wouldn't say there's possible. There's

1196
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 4: a lot of chatter online, specifically Facebook, that there's a

1197
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 4: possible serial killer in New England.

1198
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: And of course, you know.

1199
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 4: I see this across my news feed and I'm digging

1200
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 4: right in, right, and so I joined the Spacebook group

1201
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 4: and there's like seventy seven thousand people and there are

1202
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 4: something We're all chattering about the potential of the serial

1203
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 4: killer in Connecticut, like right above like Long Island, you

1204
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 4: know where Connecticut is, Yeah, Rhode Island and Massachusetts, which

1205
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 4: is like like it sounds like a super big area,

1206
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 4: but when you look at like where the bodies, you know,

1207
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 4: this potential serial killer have been found, they're all pretty

1208
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 4: close to one another if you look on the map,

1209
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 4: because it's a very condensed area.

1210
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 3: The states all run into one another.

1211
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 6: Well.

1212
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 4: From March of April of this year, so this is

1213
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 4: like super current. Investigators have discovered twelve human remains in

1214
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 4: this like really small tri state area and few, very

1215
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 4: few details have been released. So what's happening is people

1216
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 4: are getting news of these bodies being found, and they're

1217
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 4: sleuthing on it, and you know, live in these Facebook

1218
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 4: groups and then they're sharing their theories about you know,

1219
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 4: who could who could it be and are they are

1220
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 4: they connected? The problem is is that, you know, this

1221
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 4: is an active investigation, not a lot of details have

1222
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 4: been released about, you know, what happened to these these victims,

1223
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 4: and so people are like really jumping to conclusions on

1224
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 4: a lot of these theories and whatnot. And in some

1225
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 4: cases they're even posting, you know, people's Facebook profiles like

1226
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 4: disc no, I swear.

1227
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 3: That's really dangerous.

1228
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 2: This You cannot just go acute seeing people of murder online.

1229
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 3: There's no takebacks on that. There's no takebacks.

1230
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 6: I mean that the most egregious just to jump in

1231
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 6: because this is how dangerous it can get. If you

1232
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 6: guys remember back when the Boston marathon bombing occurred and

1233
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 6: people were putting out bolos be on the lookout for,

1234
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 6: and innocent people were it was really dangerous.

1235
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: We've heard this time and time again. So you know again,

1236
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 2: you know, body, this is right up your alley because

1237
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 2: you too sluiced your way into solving a very prolific

1238
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 2: serial killing case that we you know, of course followed

1239
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 2: along with on your documentary on Netflix.

1240
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 3: But you would do it so ethically, right.

1241
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: I think the other side of that is, you know, yeah,

1242
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 2: we can crowdsource, but we should not be interrupting an investigation.

1243
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 2: And by the way, law enforcement can't share every detail.

1244
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: They're connecting these dots, and if they tell too many details,

1245
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that start confessing. I'm working

1246
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 2: on a separate case right now. And this is something

1247
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 2: that happens where random people sometimes will read in the press, oh,

1248
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 2: there was a laceration around you know, the leg, and

1249
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 2: then they'll go and they'll actually confess to the laceration

1250
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 2: around the leg.

1251
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 3: I cannot explain why. No, it just happens a lot.

1252
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 4: Right and you know, the whole posting of Facebook profiles

1253
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 4: and whatnot. That's one of the reasons John Green and

1254
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 4: I broke away from that larger group because they were

1255
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 4: just posting like random people and we were very, very

1256
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 4: very turned off by that. So we kind of broke

1257
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 4: away and did our own thing, you know, successfully, but

1258
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 4: you know, we had to get away from that. It's

1259
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 4: super irresponsible and you have to be very careful when

1260
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 4: you do these kinds of things. But I want to

1261
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 4: I have to reiterate law enforcement is saying that these

1262
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 4: crimes are likely not connected. So I don't want anybody

1263
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 4: listening in Connecticut or you know what, to get scared.

1264
01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 4: Law enforcement has not confirmed this, and on top of that,

1265
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 4: they have said they don't believe one person is responsible

1266
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 4: for these So there's you know, through the victimology and whatnot,

1267
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 4: they're probably learning that there's probably no connection to these

1268
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 4: bodies being found at all.

1269
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 3: It's too yeah, law enforcement, man, there, it's tough.

1270
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 2: It's a really tough game and line they have to

1271
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:19,439
Speaker 2: walk and stuff like this.

1272
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 4: Right because they have to protect the public, right, So

1273
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 4: they want to be as honest as possible, but they

1274
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 4: largely they have to protect the investigation. And to your

1275
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 4: point about the cut on the leg, they can't just

1276
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 4: be given details a way to you know, the public

1277
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 4: because they want a sluice, you know. I mean, I

1278
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,919
Speaker 4: understand how fun that is to try and figure things out,

1279
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 4: but it's such a it's such a fine line and you.

1280
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 3: Have to be so careful.

1281
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 4: And I would recommend, if anybody cares what I have

1282
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 4: to say about it, I would recommend doing this in

1283
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 4: private with a trusted group of people. You know that

1284
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 4: if you really want to dig into stuff like this,

1285
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 4: do it in a smaller setting, because with seventy seven

1286
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 4: thousand people in a Facebook group it's nothing but noise.

1287
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 2: Exactly, Or there's somebody who's like, oh my ex boy

1288
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: friends stink, so I accuse him of murder on Facebook.

1289
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 2: It's an interesting intersection though, because sometimes that can also

1290
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: be very helpful, as you know you experienced firsthand. So

1291
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 2: if there's a serial killer at large, you know, law

1292
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 2: enforcement again they want to protect the investigation, and they're saying,

1293
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 2: to your point that there's no connection between these cases.

1294
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 2: But that's what they also said in Long Island for

1295
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 2: the Long Island serial killer, you know, over decades. You know,

1296
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 2: they were saying, oh, these are not connected.

1297
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 4: The people They're like, well, law enforcement absolutely can lie

1298
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 4: to the public about this kind of stuff, certainly, and

1299
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 4: you know, so to their point, they're like, you know,

1300
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 4: law enforcement's lying. We're going to figure this out. And

1301
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 4: I get it. I totally get it, and I am

1302
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 4: behind that.

1303
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 3: I respect that.

1304
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 4: I love the hustle, keep at it. I just think

1305
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 4: it's smarter to break off into smaller groups and do

1306
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 4: it privately.

1307
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 3: That's all twelve. That's a lot.

1308
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 6: I will say, there's there's one specific victim that stands

1309
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 6: out to me that whether it's the same person or

1310
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 6: different people. I feel like this person was either a

1311
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 6: hit man or had done this before. And oh, excuse me,

1312
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 6: you know I'm getting my thoughts confused. I'm talking about

1313
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 6: a man in Connecticut who is charged with the murder

1314
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 6: of his roommate, a woman who dismembered the remains who

1315
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:19,520
Speaker 6: were found in his suitcase.

1316
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 3: But that's I mean suitcase. This member. This is insanity.

1317
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 2: But that's not connected to these twelve, right or is

1318
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 2: that connected to the twelve?

1319
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 6: It was in the same area, so that was one

1320
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 6: they looked at, thought they looked at.

1321
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 4: What was a connected In fact, James Alan Fox, who

1322
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 4: is a criminologist at Northeastern University, very prestigious, you know,

1323
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,839
Speaker 4: he's got those accreditation. He says there is no pattern

1324
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 4: to the dump sites, which is interesting. So it's completely random,

1325
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 4: which can also be a pattern. But you know, you

1326
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 4: have to respect the people who know what they're talking about,

1327
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 4: and James Alan Fox knows what he's talking about. Additionally, though,

1328
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 4: in the same vein Okay, with you know the police

1329
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 4: denying that there's a serial killer, there's also chatter of

1330
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 4: a possible serial killer in North Hollywood close to us,

1331
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 4: right Ooh, scary well, this happened started on April twenty sixth,

1332
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 4: just past a fifty three year old man, actually a

1333
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 4: fifty three year old Menishi Hinda, was found dead in

1334
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,759
Speaker 4: his apartment after police conducted a welfare check. Okay, Tommy,

1335
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 4: prosecutor said he was stabbed with a screwdriver during a

1336
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 4: break in. Wow, horrifying, right, Well, the neighborhood, the neighborhood

1337
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 4: has said this has been an ongoing problem. You know

1338
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 4: that people are you know, breaking into their homes and

1339
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 4: climbing into the roofs. And in this instance, somebody climbed

1340
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 4: through the skylight and then jumped onto the victim's balcony

1341
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 4: and tried to attack the sky while police arrested Eric Eskamiya.

1342
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 4: He's twenty seven, and he's kind of like some you know, houseless.

1343
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 4: He's kind of staying at his mom's now and then,

1344
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 4: and he was probably probably don't know, breaking in to

1345
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 4: probably steal things from this guy's home. And the guy

1346
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 4: was home, and so he stabbed him with a screwdriver.

1347
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 3: I'm your driver. That's a hideous weapon to be you

1348
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 3: know harmed with my goodness.

1349
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 4: Right, So here's the thing, though I don't understand yet

1350
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:27,719
Speaker 4: how this is a serial killing.

1351
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 6: Well, that's what I was gonna ask, is this is

1352
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 6: this maybe a place where people are just I don't know,

1353
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 6: almost itching for something to happen and making hay where

1354
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 6: there is no hay because what seems like a one off.

1355
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 4: I don't it does right, Like, yeah, I don't quite understand,

1356
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 4: but there is a lot of chatter about it, and

1357
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 4: I'm kind I just started digging into this today. Of course,

1358
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 4: you know, I gotta roll up my sleeves and whatnot.

1359
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 4: But you know, I kind of don't understand why they're

1360
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 4: thinking this this guy might be a serial killer. Does

1361
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,879
Speaker 4: he have other victims that we don't know about maybe,

1362
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 4: or you know, what's going on there. But We're going

1363
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 4: to dig into that more and I'm going to keep

1364
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 4: following it and find out. But a lot of people

1365
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 4: are saying and they're scared. People are scared, and LAPD

1366
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 4: is like, you know, because you know, the county is like, no,

1367
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 4: there's no serial killer or what are you guys talking about?

1368
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 4: But the people that live in this, in this apartment complex,

1369
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 4: I kind of think maybe might be trying to raise

1370
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 4: some noise because they might be underpoliced. Wow, we see

1371
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 4: that a lot, especially in California. You know a lot

1372
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 4: of neighborhoods are over policed and some are just completely underpoliced,

1373
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 4: and they might be trying to raise some you know,

1374
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 4: red flags or white flags saying, you know, we need

1375
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 4: help over here.

1376
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 3: But it's pretty scary, I'll.

1377
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 6: Say, and I think it also it's just kind of

1378
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 6: a fascination that many people have, think of the lore

1379
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 6: surrounding so many serial killers. They almost can become really

1380
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 6: almost rock stars with pictures. And where do you think

1381
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,799
Speaker 6: this macab you know, this macabre attraction system.

1382
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 4: We've talked about this this condition histophrilia I can't actually

1383
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 4: pronounce it properly, hystophriblia, where these people are attracted to

1384
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 4: these criminals and it's a legitimately like DSMB vibe like problem.

1385
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 4: We see it with the Brian Coberger. Brian Coberger's getting

1386
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,560
Speaker 4: a lot of attention. So you know, we're going to

1387
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 4: be following all the serial killers and even all the

1388
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 4: allegations of a serial killers throughout the show, because that's

1389
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 4: what we're all about here.

1390
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 6: And when we come back, we are going to be

1391
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 6: hearing from you about tonight's stories. Don't forget to give

1392
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 6: us a call eighty to eighty three to one Crime

1393
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 6: with any thoughts you have on any of Tonight's stories

1394
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 6: or anything else you think we should be covering. Keep

1395
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 6: it here true crime. Tonight. We talk true crime all

1396
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 6: the time.

1397
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 2: We were talking a little bit about each other, and

1398
01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: I feel like I want to make sure that you

1399
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 2: guys have a moment to sort of share a little

1400
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 2: bit about your backstories and how you got into true crime.

1401
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 2: Courtney and I we've worked together for you know, over

1402
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 2: ten years now, not always in true crime. That only

1403
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 2: happened really in the last five years or so since

1404
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 2: Katie got started. Prior to that, we were making different

1405
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 2: types of reality shows and stuff, yeah.

1406
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 6: All kinds of it. And Stephanie, it has been beyond

1407
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 6: such the greatest pleasure to be working so closely with

1408
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 6: you for the past ten years, and we've kind of

1409
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 6: done everything every kind of from ratchet reality not to

1410
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 6: out ourselves, to really you're really serious and important documentaries.

1411
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 6: I mean, one that we got to do together was

1412
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 6: Murdered and Missing in Montana and we got to go

1413
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 6: really deep into the indigenous women and what is going on,

1414
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 6: you know, on their territories and just get into it.

1415
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,799
Speaker 6: So working with Stephanie and also getting to talk to victims'

1416
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 6: families has really been a guiding light and body. I

1417
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:09,719
Speaker 6: know that for you, you have gotten into this from

1418
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 6: such a good hearted place and just wanting for justice.

1419
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1420
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 4: I'm really weird about justice, Like it's almost like an

1421
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,520
Speaker 4: obsession with me. I'm very if something's unfair, I'm so outraged,

1422
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 4: like internally, like even as a child, right like if

1423
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 4: if my brother got something and I didn't.

1424
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 3: Oh, hell to pay, hell to pay. So yeah, no.

1425
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 4: I started in True Crime with the West Memphis three. Yeah,

1426
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 4: I was on the original List Serve after that second

1427
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 4: Paradise Lost documentary and I was like, oh, these these

1428
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 4: kids have been prosecuted unfairly. And then of course obviously

1429
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 4: I was in don'f with Cats on Netflix because kittens

1430
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 4: were being killed online in a really terrible way and

1431
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 4: I saw, you know, the future that this guy was

1432
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 4: going to move on to animals, and of course got

1433
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 4: involved with that. And then you know, I'd done some

1434
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 4: other projects for Netflix and a couple for Vice and

1435
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 4: True Crime and all that, and it's just been such

1436
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,440
Speaker 4: a joy. And of course we met at Crime Con

1437
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 4: and that was so fun, and I feel like we've

1438
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 4: just been working together really well ever since. And I

1439
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 4: feel like I'm just sitting around with my girlfriends drinking

1440
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 4: a cup of coffee. Like I'm literally drinking a cup

1441
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 4: of coffee with my girlfriends at the kitchen table, and

1442
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 4: we're just talking about all our favorite subjects and body.

1443
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 6: Thank you for not outing us that. Stephanie and I

1444
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 6: had the most undignified approach to you at crime Con

1445
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 6: when we saw you in the green room backstage for

1446
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 6: the conferences and we're fangirling about don't have with cats.

1447
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 6: So I appreciate that.

1448
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 3: I would never I would never do that to you.

1449
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 3: I would never do that to you.

1450
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 2: That was the best though, in the beginning of an

1451
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 2: incredible friendship. So getting to play with you guys, it

1452
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: is really like just pulling up a chair to the

1453
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 2: kitchen table. Yeah, frankly, that's what Katie Studios stands for.

1454
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 2: So isn't that adorable Katy Studios kitchen table. I love,

1455
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 2: So you guys, pull up a chair and make sure

1456
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 2: you stick with us for the you know, the rest

1457
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 2: of the week. And we're always going to be here

1458
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 2: live Sunday through Thursday nights and listen. We want to

1459
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 2: hear from you eight eight eight three one crime. Call

1460
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 2: us with your ideas, your stories, your opinions, and if

1461
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 2: you want us to start some cases, we will do that.

1462
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 2: So tomorrow make sure you join us. Tomorrow night we're

1463
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,919
Speaker 2: going to be covering the Menendoz Boys. They were supposed

1464
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 2: to face sentencing on Friday.

1465
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 3: Has that been pushed?

1466
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 2: And also the connection between BTK he was the infamous

1467
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: serial killer and Brian Koberger, accused in the Idaho murders.

1468
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 2: This is True Crime Tonight where we talk true crime

1469
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: all the time.