Speaker 1: So far, Like Michael Bivens at the time of the
Speaker 1: filming of the Boys to Men Motown Philly video, I
Speaker 1: have heard zero music from Sudden Impact, not the original recipe,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one version, not the five guys in the video.
Speaker 1: I don't think I actually can hear the music of
Speaker 1: Sudden Impacts because it's locked in a vault at Capitol Records.
Speaker 1: I've heard White Guys quick Verse on the East Coast
Speaker 1: family song one Forour All four to one, and they
Speaker 1: sound good, but I haven't heard any full songs because
Speaker 1: whatever they recorded is locked in a vault, and Motown Records,
Speaker 1: which distributed music from Michael Bivens' biv ten label, which
Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore. I haven't heard any music from the
Speaker 1: Outsiders either, because whatever they recorded under that name is
Speaker 1: the property of Sony Music, which distributed Boys to Men's
Speaker 1: Stone Creek label, which also doesn't exist anymore. I have
Speaker 1: heard some of the songs the guys recorded as Outsiders
Speaker 1: for Life after Aaron and Noel Kane left the group
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Marble and Jason Dowdy joined. It's a little
Speaker 1: harder than I was expecting, a little angrier, a little
Speaker 1: more Timberland because it was the year two thousand and
Speaker 1: everything was more tim Milandy back then it was the law.
Speaker 1: But from the original five I have still heard no music.
Speaker 1: But thanks to Jason and Tim Bird, I have made
Speaker 1: contact with Todd White and Alan Healy, and before we speak,
Speaker 1: I ask them whether they have the other major thing
Speaker 1: I'm missing, maybe the biggest piece of the puzzle so far,
Speaker 1: the thing that put this story into motion, the two
Speaker 1: special poster, the picture that got Michael Bivens to sign them.
Speaker 1: They have it, and before we speak they send it
Speaker 1: to me. So now I have it, I'm going to
Speaker 1: break it down for you pixel by pixel, pegged Jean
Speaker 1: by peg Jane. I'll talk about it with Todd and
Speaker 1: Allen and I will get the sudden impact story from
Speaker 1: their perspective. I'll do a little digging as to whether
Speaker 1: one of their later songs who Are You was a
Speaker 1: disc track, and if so, who was getting dissed and why?
Speaker 1: Plus a conversation with a voice you could not escape
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, I'm going to catch up with
Speaker 1: Freedom Williams of Seeing Music Factory, who is as always
Speaker 1: gonna make you sweat? This is waiting for impact a
Speaker 1: Dave Holmes Passion Project, Todd White, Alan Healey, Holy, how
Speaker 1: I cannot believe him talking to the both of you.
Speaker 2: This is nuts. First of all, how are you good man?
Speaker 3: Happy to be alive?
Speaker 4: We're both good.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Todd and Allen over Zoom. They're both
Speaker 1: in their individual homes. They live about thirty minutes away
Speaker 1: from each other in Virginia, and as I talk to them,
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of something.
Speaker 2: They're outsiders for life.
Speaker 1: Bandmate Jason Dowdy told me about them, One that Todd
Speaker 1: is the hard charger of the group, the engine, and
Speaker 1: two that Alan Heally was their street cred. Here's what
Speaker 1: he said about that, just.
Speaker 5: You know, like from his the family he's from, and
Speaker 5: the people he knows in the area, like he's kind
Speaker 5: of down with you know, some people from the streets
Speaker 5: it that way, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I don't actually know what Jason means, but of course
Speaker 1: now I'm expecting some kind of Virginia Beach sopranos character
Speaker 1: a tough guy, and maybe he is, but right now
Speaker 1: over Zoom, the two of them could not be nicer.
Speaker 1: Maybe they've mellowed with age, or maybe they're just happy
Speaker 1: to be talking about this stuff. Either way, you will
Speaker 1: believe how Todd White.
Speaker 2: Met Alan Heally. How did Todd White and Alan Healy meet.
Speaker 4: Over a girl? Actually?
Speaker 6: I think I started dating one of Todd's a's girlfriends
Speaker 6: and I got told that Todd White wanted to talk
Speaker 6: to me, and so I was like really, So then
Speaker 6: he told me I met him, and he was like,
Speaker 6: you know, treater good.
Speaker 4: She's a good girl type deal.
Speaker 6: And me and him actually became really good friends through this,
Speaker 6: and then those girls disappeared in our friendship kept on.
Speaker 4: So it's kind of really interesting girls.
Speaker 1: Man, Todd, My understanding is that that is how you
Speaker 1: met Aaron Kane.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was yep, Todd.
Speaker 2: How many girlfriends did you have?
Speaker 3: I had a lot of girlfriends.
Speaker 4: Yeah, friends that were girls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, friends that were girls.
Speaker 7: I don't know, man, I had to get rid of
Speaker 7: a lot of that stuff, Dave, so I could make
Speaker 7: room for new memories.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed that everyone involved with Sudden Impact or
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens says my name back to me when they
Speaker 1: answer a question, Hayden and Evett did it too. I
Speaker 1: can't help but wonder whether that was part of the
Speaker 1: training Michael Bivens put them through. Anyway, it works when
Speaker 1: these guys were teenagers. Though Todd was a bit of
Speaker 1: a wild child, it was an energy alan really clicked with.
Speaker 6: Our parents were both majors in the army, so very
Speaker 6: structured lifestyle. And then you have some people that go
Speaker 6: into that lifestyle, I'd say, and then you have guys
Speaker 6: like us that completely fought against our dads and hated it.
Speaker 4: So many of us joined the military. We went.
Speaker 6: I asked my mom is Vietnamese Mom, I don't want
Speaker 6: to do the Air Force and she was like, what
Speaker 6: do you want to do? I said, I want to
Speaker 6: hang out with Todd, and you know, you know, she
Speaker 6: was like, follow your dreams, do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 6: So it was a it was a different you know,
Speaker 6: but titled just that guy man. He was just somebody
Speaker 6: that always people are talking about him because he's either
Speaker 6: pissing them.
Speaker 4: Off or they liked him. Do you like Tid or
Speaker 4: you hated Todd? Todder?
Speaker 2: How does that feel to hear that?
Speaker 3: It's cool?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 3: You know, I'll tell you this, man.
Speaker 7: You know, we grow old, man, we grow apart man,
Speaker 7: and uh well, not really a part but like with
Speaker 7: me and Allen. Man, we can go like, you know,
Speaker 7: a week, two, three, well a month without to talk
Speaker 7: to each other and call and pick right up where
Speaker 7: we left off, right where we.
Speaker 3: Left off, man, you know, and uh, it's cool man.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 3: It was a real good bond. There still is.
Speaker 7: It's always been. It's always been really you know. But
Speaker 7: you know, yet life happens.
Speaker 2: You know, how are your parents with your decision to
Speaker 2: pursue music.
Speaker 3: Oh they care whatever as long as he does something
Speaker 3: with himself.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: What kind of kids were you? What kind of teenagers
Speaker 2: were you?
Speaker 6: Were?
Speaker 4: Kids?
Speaker 2: Bad kids, wild?
Speaker 6: I would tell you I was good all the way
Speaker 6: till about when I started hanging out with Todd. I
Speaker 6: was started getting where he was not in school, ninth grade,
Speaker 6: he was out. I got a call and it'll be
Speaker 6: Todd telling me, Hey, calling sick. We're going to go
Speaker 6: to the beach. We're going to write to you know.
Speaker 6: Then he started. There was all the music and being
Speaker 6: around him. You never knew what to expected. This guy
Speaker 6: all right, with a lot of parties we weren't allowed
Speaker 6: to come to locally, And that all changed once we
Speaker 6: got into boys and Men's video of course.
Speaker 1: All right, let's back up here a little bit and
Speaker 1: talk about how Too Special the first version of Sudden
Speaker 1: Impact came together. We know Todd White met Aaron Kane
Speaker 1: at a party when they were about to get into
Speaker 1: a fist fight over a girl. We know that the
Speaker 1: original version of the group was Todd, Aaron, and another
Speaker 1: guy named Eric. What we don't know is how Alan
Speaker 1: entered the fold.
Speaker 6: I'll kind of tell you kind of what happened for
Speaker 6: me to get in this group. Todd and I were
Speaker 6: always kind of just friends that acted crazy. I mean,
Speaker 6: if I want to do summer laugh, I go hang
Speaker 6: out with Todd. Tide was always a damn nut, you know,
Speaker 6: carried through all the way to when we're this age.
Speaker 4: Now. My son loves to go hang out with Todd
Speaker 4: just because Todd's wild. All right.
Speaker 6: So I was in Washington State and I got this
Speaker 6: phone call about and Todd played me a song over
Speaker 6: the over the thing, and it was in a group
Speaker 6: called Two Special Tight, you know, and I was like
Speaker 6: and said, that sounds pretty damn good man.
Speaker 4: I actually enjoyed that. So he told me that the
Speaker 4: two guys were.
Speaker 6: Getting ready to move and he needed the guy in
Speaker 6: the group, and he was like, if you want to
Speaker 6: come back to Virginia, you know, I'll you know, I'll
Speaker 6: put you in this group.
Speaker 4: And so I was like, all right.
Speaker 1: I just want to chime in here and remind you
Speaker 1: that this level of wheeling and dealing, these potential cross
Speaker 1: country moves and personnel changes, these were all being negotiated
Speaker 1: among sixteen year old.
Speaker 4: Boys and Aaron them didn't really know me too well.
Speaker 6: And I came in and it was kind of a
Speaker 6: little bit of a first like, oh, he's Todd's guy,
Speaker 6: you know, and this helps tide, you know, decisions now,
Speaker 6: it's his best friend type thing. And so we got
Speaker 6: together and I told him when I got in the group,
Speaker 6: I wanted to, you know, not just do local shows.
Speaker 6: I wanted to start, Hey, let's make this big, Let's
Speaker 6: do something. And so me and him started. He had
Speaker 6: that I would say a lot of the talent. Todd
Speaker 6: has always been really good at writing hooks.
Speaker 1: Todd, what was the name too Special?
Speaker 2: All about? How did that?
Speaker 7: I have no clue, as you, man, I mean, it's catchy.
Speaker 7: I wish I could remember, man, I honestly have no clue, man,
Speaker 7: you know, even a song I look back at the
Speaker 7: song please be.
Speaker 4: Mine, be my girl, Please be mine.
Speaker 3: Dun dum dump my girl, like were begging.
Speaker 6: You know, it's but we were man, you're think you're
Speaker 6: sixteen years old. Man, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I do know exactly what he's saying. But what I'm
Speaker 1: dying to know about is how they made the decision
Speaker 1: as two sixteen year old boys to take their poster,
Speaker 1: which again we're going to talk about later in the show,
Speaker 1: and fly all the way across the country to try something.
Speaker 1: What I didn't know is that getting a record deal
Speaker 1: wasn't just a happy accident. It was the fulfillment of
Speaker 1: a promise. So let's talk about the trip to Los
Speaker 1: Angeles for Marvin Gaye's Walk of Fame ceremony.
Speaker 2: Did you drive, did you fly? What did you did?
Speaker 2: You tell your parents?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, tell our parents.
Speaker 6: We asked everyone to go, So we asked Tid's mom.
Speaker 4: I will tell you was like our manager.
Speaker 6: She pretty much put up every bit of money anything
Speaker 6: for Tide. She would put up whatever she just wanted
Speaker 6: Tie not to going to jail. You know, be somebody,
Speaker 6: And I would tell you music probably saved his butt
Speaker 6: from going to jail straight up. Because me and Todd
Speaker 6: both looked at each other and you can't sing from
Speaker 6: jail and make money. So we're like, you know, at
Speaker 6: least nowadays you might be able to, but not back then.
Speaker 6: So we were kind of like, hey, let's go do this.
Speaker 6: I went and talked to my mom, and my mom
Speaker 6: will take to this day. I asked her and I slammed.
Speaker 6: My father had a you know, we lived in Germany,
Speaker 6: so yeah, and Mercedes Bens.
Speaker 4: I asked her, let me go with Todd. She said no,
Speaker 4: and I slammed the Mercedes Benz door so hard and
Speaker 4: slash at her door.
Speaker 6: Windows smashed, just went straight down, and she looked at
Speaker 6: me and she was like, you know, just pissed off.
Speaker 6: So I go to Todd and she comes back the
Speaker 6: next day and talked to Todd's mom and said, Alan,
Speaker 6: I work hard for my money. I'm gonna give you
Speaker 6: this money if you go to LA come back with something.
Speaker 6: And I was like, I promise you, I'm not going
Speaker 6: out there just to do nothing.
Speaker 4: I'm going out there to come back with something.
Speaker 1: They didn't get a recording contract off a poster because
Speaker 1: they were lucky. They got it because Alan promised his
Speaker 1: mom he would, and these guys are men.
Speaker 2: Of their word. Cecil Jenkins.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Marvin Gay's friend and local music promoter,
Speaker 1: might not have been as good a guy as I thought.
Speaker 6: And so Todd and I are out there. Supposedly he's
Speaker 6: gonna take care of us. Okay, We're gonna go out there.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna take care of this guy disappeared on us
Speaker 6: for the first night. To me and Todd decided because
Speaker 6: he left us there and just left us in hotel.
Speaker 6: We were kind of just I think his paycheck to
Speaker 6: get to La. So we get out there and we
Speaker 6: just get left and like we're supposed to be staying
Speaker 6: with him.
Speaker 4: But guess what, guys, I can't get you in the place.
Speaker 4: Kada YadA. So we were like, you know, it's true,
Speaker 4: let's walk around LA. We're out here.
Speaker 6: So you know, I'm a military brat, so I'm like,
Speaker 6: let's go. I've been in Germany, I've been in Paris.
Speaker 4: We can make this.
Speaker 1: Alan Heally and Todd White are sixteen years old, more
Speaker 1: confident and resourceful than I will ever be.
Speaker 6: We go out there and this guy's up on the
Speaker 6: stage of Marvin Gaye's you know, family. So we're up
Speaker 6: there at the start and I'm like, man, this dude
Speaker 6: kind of just dissing the hell out of us, really, you.
Speaker 4: Know, honestly.
Speaker 6: So we're Mike Bivins comes up and runs next to
Speaker 6: us and stands like watching what's going on in Todd season.
Speaker 6: And I remember he Tide's like, yo, Alan, give him
Speaker 6: the poster, and you know, he walks off. So I
Speaker 6: walked up to him, like, yo, man, this a poster
Speaker 6: and he's like, I'm gonna keep that shit out of
Speaker 6: my face. And I'm like, I was like, well, this
Speaker 6: guy just told me to. I go back and tell Todd.
Speaker 6: I'm like, yo, this. He goes what he's saying. I'm like,
Speaker 6: dude just told me to get that shit out of
Speaker 6: his face, and Time looks at me. He goes give
Speaker 6: me that and he runs back over there and Mike's like, hey, man,
Speaker 6: I didn't know, man, I thought that was a new
Speaker 6: Kid poster and asked me to sign it, you know,
Speaker 6: like it's like kind of a disc like because they
Speaker 6: were supposed to be like new Kids from Areas Starshit.
Speaker 6: So he got kind of pissy and then he goes, no, okay,
Speaker 6: am I bad. So he points to Todd and tells Todd, hey,
Speaker 6: come over here, and so we you know, Tid points
Speaker 6: to me and we both go over there and he's like.
Speaker 4: Man, I'm so sorry. I thought she was this group.
Speaker 6: So he brings us up to Motown Records and we
Speaker 6: go right into the president's office, Gerald Busby's office, like,
Speaker 6: walk up, like man, Me and him have a poster
Speaker 6: in one song, please be on to it. Right into
Speaker 6: the office, and I'm sitting there like amazing, we're in
Speaker 6: this guy's office. I'm oh, my god, you know.
Speaker 4: And so he starts telling Jerald how this.
Speaker 6: Is going to be my new group, another group after
Speaker 6: another bad creation of boys to men, this is my
Speaker 6: new group, and so he starts askings, can you sing
Speaker 6: like this?
Speaker 4: And I didn't. Man, I mean like, if I'm at
Speaker 4: a job, you asked me if I can do something?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I can do it. We can do whatever.
Speaker 4: So I sell our group.
Speaker 6: Me and Ty are sitting there and we just keep
Speaker 6: talking and he's like, hey, look, I don't know what
Speaker 6: you came.
Speaker 4: Out here to do, but you've accomplished it. Go back
Speaker 4: to Virginia and go home.
Speaker 3: I'll call you.
Speaker 1: What I love about everyone's version of this story is
Speaker 1: that nobody has told me what happened between Michael Bibvens
Speaker 1: looking at the two special poster and Michael Bivins driving
Speaker 1: Todd and Allen to Motown Records. And I think nobody's
Speaker 1: told me what happened because nothing happened in between. He
Speaker 1: really did just see the poster and make the decision,
Speaker 1: and Motown was just as quick to jump. Jeral Buzzby
Speaker 1: asks if you can sing? Does he at any time
Speaker 1: hear you sing?
Speaker 6: At that point, Mike says, don't worry about it. I
Speaker 6: got these are my guys. They're gonna be able to
Speaker 6: so be and Todd didn't have count to sing in
Speaker 6: the office.
Speaker 1: At that point, they have a meeting with Motown Records.
Speaker 1: They get Michael Bivens' number, and I promise that something
Speaker 1: will happen, and they call that number right away.
Speaker 4: Before we left.
Speaker 6: We called that dude in the morning like I've been
Speaker 6: even called Mike at seven in the morning and he's like, dude,
Speaker 6: it's me, it's my number, go home, trust me.
Speaker 4: Then we go back to Virginia and we're.
Speaker 6: Telling all Aaron and all them, Hey, guys, we got
Speaker 6: some We gotta tell y'all we got something.
Speaker 4: Trust me.
Speaker 1: And before they head home, they have one last conversation
Speaker 1: with Cecil Jenkins.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: We go back to our accon lodge and that dude
Speaker 6: calls it Udd and goes, hey, did y'all see me
Speaker 6: on the stage.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, we saw you on the stage.
Speaker 6: And here I said, Hey man, I said to go,
Speaker 6: I got that question for you. Can you give me
Speaker 6: a meet with Jerald buzby tomorrow? And the guy's like, oh, hey, nah, Man,
Speaker 6: I ain't gonna be able to you know, swing that
Speaker 6: yeahda YadA.
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, okay, we're going home tomorrow.
Speaker 4: We'll talk to you later. And so we got in
Speaker 4: our plane and we left.
Speaker 1: The guys have a pending record deal with the legendary
Speaker 1: Motown Record but before anything else can happen, another quick
Speaker 1: personnel change.
Speaker 4: So we get home and we tell.
Speaker 6: Aaron and Noel and everybody, and then we tell them, hey,
Speaker 6: we're bringing.
Speaker 4: Dave in the group.
Speaker 6: We got another guy. We're bringing it because me and
Speaker 6: Todd decided we were decided we're gonna put Dave in
Speaker 6: the group. So we you know, this Yeah, they got
Speaker 6: pissed it first, so we didn't care. It was, you know,
Speaker 6: kind of Todd's dealing my deal. At this point, we
Speaker 6: were wanting to do our vision.
Speaker 2: What was the vision at the beginning.
Speaker 6: The vision at the beginning was, I would tell you
Speaker 6: we were inspired by us straight up saying, new kids
Speaker 6: on the block. We saw some dudes singing and we
Speaker 6: were like, damn it, we can to do that. Man
Speaker 6: and Tied had been in like choir.
Speaker 4: And he was in beforeen. He was in school, he
Speaker 4: was in chorus and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: The next step was an appearance on b ET. Michael
Speaker 1: Bivens was booked on Donnie Simpson's show Video Soul to
Speaker 1: announce his development deal with Motown and introduce the world
Speaker 1: to his groups Boys to Men. Another bad creation and
Speaker 1: sudden impact. But b ET was in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: A couple hours drive from Virginia Beach. And you know
Speaker 1: how Aaron and Knowles's parents are about these excursions.
Speaker 4: So we had to force his now Aaron and Knowles's
Speaker 4: parents to let us take.
Speaker 6: Them because me and Tyd are like, we're going. Regardless
Speaker 6: whether you go or not, we'll replace you. Someone's going
Speaker 6: with us. I mean, I don't care who it is. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, And so Aaron really wanted to do it.
Speaker 4: Aaron was, you know, he's still singing today. He really
Speaker 4: wanted to do it.
Speaker 6: So he shot up there with us and Noel jumped
Speaker 6: in the car and we all jumped into Dave's five
Speaker 6: point zero convertible, trying to fit in the back seat.
Speaker 4: It was rough up three hours.
Speaker 3: The DC back seat, small, back seat small.
Speaker 6: We show up and uh, it's ABC, I guess releasing
Speaker 6: the debut of Aisha. We are there and we see
Speaker 6: Boys and Men sing married, don't you week? And that's
Speaker 6: when we were like, wow, that's the singing group, you
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying. So we learned real quick. And
Speaker 6: we weren't that yet. Man, we weren't, I would say,
Speaker 6: you know, we we were still in the very beginnings
Speaker 6: of being a group. We're still writing our records, We're
Speaker 6: still trying to figure out what was going on, who
Speaker 6: we were right.
Speaker 4: We're still developing ourselves.
Speaker 6: The next thing we had come up was we were
Speaker 6: supposed to, you know, we find out, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 6: shoot Motown Philly video because they I should just released
Speaker 6: now Boys and Men's gonna shoot their debut video in Philly.
Speaker 6: So we get a call and me and Tyd are like,
Speaker 6: all right, when do we need to be there?
Speaker 4: And they said early in the morning on this day.
Speaker 6: Okay, Me and Todd left that night because we wanted
Speaker 6: to be there early.
Speaker 2: What was shooting that video?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 7: For you?
Speaker 2: Do you remember that day?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I can remember it. This thing? How about you?
Speaker 7: Todd?
Speaker 4: Do you remember it? Yoh? Man?
Speaker 3: It was it was different? Yeah, I remember the neon sign.
Speaker 3: I was like, yo, what can we put that sign?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: We wanted that so it was an actual sign.
Speaker 4: They couldn't do like effects back then.
Speaker 3: They had a real, actually a neon sign.
Speaker 1: Man, there is an actual, practical sudden impact neon sign
Speaker 1: and it must still exist somewhere. Where is it a
Speaker 1: museum a private collection? I have a goal now find it?
Speaker 1: And Lara Croft tomb rate or that ship?
Speaker 2: So were there were there other takes? Were there other
Speaker 2: concepts besides the point?
Speaker 6: Do you just kind of get that trot and let
Speaker 6: me tell you man, we could we had not that
Speaker 6: took a while?
Speaker 4: Well no, yeah.
Speaker 6: Another thing was they didn't have no you know, it
Speaker 6: was like a last minute thing we're doing a video
Speaker 6: and bibs like I'm gonna put my my next group
Speaker 6: in here. So they if you notice, Aaron's wearing a
Speaker 6: bow tie and the rest of us are wearing ties.
Speaker 4: The reason why is because they only had four boys
Speaker 4: to men, so they had four ties.
Speaker 6: So Aaron, because he was one of the leads at
Speaker 6: the time, said I'll go ahead and wear the bow tie.
Speaker 6: So all of the rest of us and They're like,
Speaker 6: what are you all gonna do? And I was like, shit,
Speaker 6: I don't know what we're gonna do.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: It was like, all right, everybody point on the count
Speaker 6: of so and so and so it was like, shit,
Speaker 6: I can point, you know.
Speaker 4: So then it's.
Speaker 6: Funny you say that because people would always ask me
Speaker 6: all the pointers or shit like that, you know, and
Speaker 6: different different things.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, it was fun man, it was.
Speaker 6: It was I look back at does I still see
Speaker 6: them things and crack up my kids, you know, they
Speaker 6: trip out that, you know, like, Dad, you weren't that cool?
Speaker 2: Like you were that cool?
Speaker 4: I thought so I thought we were.
Speaker 1: It does appear to me, though, that Dave Dave does
Speaker 1: seem to be pointing at the director.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Dave, Dave's always trying to be noticing a lot.
Speaker 6: He's always a little bit out on his own there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, he's always been out there a little bit.
Speaker 6: So if we were all dressed and let's say urban
Speaker 6: Dave's got on the skateboard stuff. He was a skater
Speaker 6: at heart from Virginia, you know, he lives in Virginia
Speaker 6: Beach now, so right there with Pharrell's from that whole area.
Speaker 6: But that Pharrell vibe how he dressed, Dave was already
Speaker 6: doing that way back in the day.
Speaker 4: That was always his thing, vans and you know, looking
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 1: So the video comes out, do you feel like the
Speaker 1: pressure is on now to start releasing music?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I thought we were going to be the next group out, okay,
Speaker 6: And Ty would say you we thought, hey man, we're next,
Speaker 6: you know, So we started putting stuff together. I would
Speaker 6: tell you vocally, probably we weren't where we should have been, okay,
Speaker 6: And that's where me and Todd when the time comes,
Speaker 6: we do some switching around and stuff. But I would
Speaker 6: say it was a lot of pressure. We wanted to
Speaker 6: be that next group. We were trying to find a sound.
Speaker 1: You know what happens next, The guys signed with Capital,
Speaker 1: They record some music. Then Bivins asked them to leave
Speaker 1: Capital and go with biv ten Records, which they do,
Speaker 1: and immediately bivins roster of artists starts to grow. Also,
Speaker 1: his vision for sudden Impact takes a turn that is unbelievable.
Speaker 4: He just had a lot on his plate. Man, he threw.
Speaker 6: We went from three guys and I'll see see one
Speaker 6: for all for one there was twenty groups.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yo, what the hell just happened?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 4: And now who are we behind? So we decided we
Speaker 4: were going to roll and not just that.
Speaker 7: Alut.
Speaker 3: Remember his whole vision of us changed.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: He wanted us to be like it was a EMF.
Speaker 2: You were going to be a rave band.
Speaker 3: He was all some different stuff.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: We were kind of like, yo, man, that that's not us.
Speaker 2: Man, If you don't remember.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, the British group EMF, incidentally also
Speaker 1: five trendy white guys, had a number one hit in
Speaker 1: America called Unbelievable. They were ravy, they wore baggy day
Speaker 1: glow clothing, they had electronic beats. Their name stood for
Speaker 1: ecstasy motherfuckers. It was very of the time, but not
Speaker 1: at all what sudden impact was about. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, sudden impact was about to not be sudden impact.
Speaker 4: First we were sudden impact. Then it changed and I
Speaker 4: looked and it said.
Speaker 6: Whyt g I Z And I'm like, wait, Gizzy, like
Speaker 6: no white guys.
Speaker 8: And I'm like wait, Gussy, And I'm like, what the
Speaker 8: hell are you doing? Guzy guys like white guys, white guys.
Speaker 8: That's not really man. I'm half Asian man. My mother's Vietnamese.
Speaker 8: But at that point he said, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 8: That's what you all are gonna be.
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, wow, that's what we're gonna be, okay,
Speaker 6: And so actually, you know, we, like I said, it
Speaker 6: was creative differences.
Speaker 4: And I think also that we just weren't. We didn't know.
Speaker 4: He didn't know really what we were.
Speaker 2: We didn't know we were.
Speaker 6: It wasn't a thing of you know, I don't think
Speaker 6: BIV hated us. I mean, that's a strong word anytime
Speaker 6: someone says about it. He just didn't know what to do.
Speaker 6: He used to tell us all the time, we were
Speaker 6: his mom's favorite group at all of She had our
Speaker 6: poster in her house.
Speaker 2: That's a powerful poster, is what that is. And I
Speaker 2: have it now.
Speaker 1: We will analyze it later in the episode, but first
Speaker 1: I wanted to catch up with someone else who had
Speaker 1: a big moment in the pop music world of the
Speaker 1: early nineties. Someone who's time in the spotlight was also
Speaker 1: just before the Internet. Someone who is yesterday, today and
Speaker 1: always gonna make you sweat. Freedom Williams smoking a cigar,
Speaker 1: enjoying a stoke.
Speaker 4: Where are you, I'm in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: No discussion of popular music in nineteen ninety one is
Speaker 1: complete without Freedom Williams. He was the featured rapper on
Speaker 1: the C and C Music Factory songs Gonna make You Sweat,
Speaker 1: Here We Go and Things that make You go hmm.
Speaker 1: His voice was everywhere, and it still is. Try to
Speaker 1: go a week without hearing Gonna make you sweat.
Speaker 9: You can't say everybody over here, everybody, Oh, but there,
Speaker 9: the cloud is not but no, a fool is body
Speaker 9: people than the house?
Speaker 2: See there it is, you just heard it.
Speaker 1: That song is a perfect example of the C and
Speaker 1: C Music Factory sound Freedom smooth Flow, alongside Martha WASH's
Speaker 1: powerhouse vocals. Of course, in the video for the song,
Speaker 1: those vocals were lip syncd by a model named Zelma Davis.
Speaker 1: Lip Syncing by models was another big thing in the
Speaker 1: early nineties. That's a subject for another podcast. Freedom left
Speaker 1: the group in nineteen ninety three for a solo career,
Speaker 1: and the Music Factory shut down not too long after that.
Speaker 1: I caught up with him at his home in Brooklyn
Speaker 1: where he's having a cigar and sitting in front of
Speaker 1: literally dozens of bodybuilding trophies. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the whole C ANDC riot, what he's been doing since.
Speaker 1: And I swear I didn't do this on purpose, what
Speaker 1: Freedom really means.
Speaker 2: I would like to talk to you about your experience
Speaker 2: of you.
Speaker 1: Know, nineteen ninety and ninety one. How did you come
Speaker 1: to be involved with C ANDC Music Factory.
Speaker 4: I was an engineer.
Speaker 9: I went to engineering school when I got out of
Speaker 9: college in eighty eight, eight nine, and I went to
Speaker 9: work in Quad Recording Studios, now infamous Quad Studios where
Speaker 9: everyone seems to get into a shootout.
Speaker 1: All right, not everybody gets into a shootout at Quad Studios.
Speaker 2: I haven't, but it was the.
Speaker 1: Place where tupacsha Kork got shot five times in a
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four robbery. There's a theory that the Notorious
Speaker 1: BIG's nineteen ninety five song who Shot Ya is all
Speaker 1: about that attack, but Freedom kept it peaceful. He learned
Speaker 1: how to be useful as an engineer in recording studios,
Speaker 1: but what he really wanted was to be an MC
Speaker 1: while you were engineering for other mcs, where you like,
Speaker 1: get me in there, God, I could kill this or
Speaker 1: did you just say, like it's my momental come.
Speaker 9: Later, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I understand. You know
Speaker 9: Buster rhymes when we left Leaders of the New School,
Speaker 9: he would hang out at the studios with a blood
Speaker 9: and try to get into the session, which is a technique.
Speaker 4: You know. I used to get hide with Sladstone.
Speaker 9: You know, Slatstone would come to the studio and look
Speaker 9: for me as an engineer. I was twenty two. We
Speaker 9: would go on the staircase and smoke a bone.
Speaker 1: What were your goal's career wise? Where did you see
Speaker 1: yourself in twenty thirty years time?
Speaker 9: Well, to be to make money, to be to be independent.
Speaker 9: You know, the goal of making music is Nobody who
Speaker 9: really makes money tries to make money for the sake
Speaker 9: of collecting rectangle pieces of paper. They make money for
Speaker 9: the sake of being able to fly first class. And
Speaker 9: pay for them to work and pay for their mom's
Speaker 9: conrect surgery, or buy the card they wanted. Nobody really
Speaker 9: money and of itself. So the goal of being famous
Speaker 9: was to be free. You pay for freedom here. You
Speaker 9: don't earn your freedom by being a humble man or
Speaker 9: a decent man.
Speaker 4: It costs money to be free.
Speaker 9: And so as a young kid in the streets of
Speaker 9: New York, any rapper may be a public Enemy or
Speaker 9: christ One or Rock Kim or the boogiet Down Productions.
Speaker 4: Or MC light.
Speaker 9: Their goal is to get out of the hood, to
Speaker 9: be free. That's why we you know, it's our you know,
Speaker 9: But shit, I got to get out of here.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: So fame was freedom.
Speaker 4: Famous Freedom, absolutely Bowie.
Speaker 1: We can't afford that, so we'll probably cut that out.
Speaker 1: Freedom did some engineering for David Cole and Robert Clavillis,
Speaker 1: the c's in CNC Music Factory. They had a dance
Speaker 1: project they were trying to put together, but they needed
Speaker 1: an MC. Freedom is an MC and they clicked and
Speaker 1: the defining dance pop songs of nineteen ninety and ninety
Speaker 1: one were born. But after a while Freedom wanted to
Speaker 1: break out on his own. He fell out with one
Speaker 1: of the seas and he embarked.
Speaker 2: On a solo career.
Speaker 1: What kind of sound were you trying to capture for
Speaker 1: your solo record post see and see similar?
Speaker 9: A similar sound, A similar sound with just a little
Speaker 9: bit more edge, you know. And then and then I
Speaker 9: made a lot of records that were real street records
Speaker 9: too that I shocked, but people wouldn't. I couldn't get
Speaker 9: deals with them because they were like, Ah, that's not
Speaker 9: what you're doing, that's not who you are. I was
Speaker 9: always I always say, once you do a record like that,
Speaker 9: you can't really repeat that record. You have to venture
Speaker 9: off into a different sound. But the fans don't want
Speaker 9: you to venture off because they don't know you for that.
Speaker 9: But sometimes with pop music you can get pigeonholes because
Speaker 9: pop music changes me.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three, Freedom released his first solo single,
Speaker 1: Voice of Freedom, a slightly harder dance track with a
Speaker 1: chorus that sampled George Michael's Freedom ninety. The video is
Speaker 1: up on YouTube and it is pure uncut nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: three Intricate choreography in front of moodily lit Shanelink Fences
Speaker 1: Very season three of nine oh two on a wardrobe
Speaker 1: on everyone except Freedom, who of course is shirtless and
Speaker 1: oiled up. The song has the line dance till you
Speaker 1: wet your pants, and that's hard.
Speaker 2: It is wild.
Speaker 1: But by nineteen ninety three, as you know, by now,
Speaker 1: the charts had changed. There was conclusive proof that people
Speaker 1: wanted a different sound. So your record comes out and
Speaker 1: the Chronic comes out. Did you have a sense at
Speaker 1: the time of what was happening in the culture or yeah,
Speaker 1: just yeah.
Speaker 9: You knew it was it was a problem. You could,
Speaker 9: you could because I loved the Chronic record. I was like,
Speaker 9: oh shit, that's bananas. I remember I remember being in
Speaker 9: the limo. We were going on somewhere on.
Speaker 4: The road New York.
Speaker 9: We were out of the country somewhere, and somebody in
Speaker 9: my crews put the yo. I got that great record
Speaker 9: crazy and with the whole hour and the Limo were rocking.
Speaker 9: I had a record out.
Speaker 4: No, we wouln't even listen to my record. That fucking
Speaker 4: chronic record was bananas.
Speaker 9: Of course you understood, you know when when when when
Speaker 9: Off the Wall came out, it was a game change.
Speaker 4: You knew it. You know, you knew it.
Speaker 1: So how did that feel when you're trying to promote
Speaker 1: a record of your own.
Speaker 9: The missig industry was becoming very opinionated at that point.
Speaker 9: You know, if you didn't smoke weed and bust guns,
Speaker 9: you weren't credible. It was one point through the early
Speaker 9: the mid nineties where I remember when the La Catch
Speaker 9: was making records and all of these bluffs was making records,
Speaker 9: and I would watch the videos and I would be like, yo,
Speaker 9: who is going to a and R that fucking project.
Speaker 9: It's like thirty dudes with guns? Like, yo, who is
Speaker 9: going to fucking do the project? The product management on
Speaker 9: that record, Like, you got to deal with those motherfuckers,
Speaker 9: Good luck with that shit.
Speaker 4: Hold me.
Speaker 1: So, Freedom's record deal with Sony fell apart. A few
Speaker 1: other things materialized and then faded away. By now you
Speaker 1: know how that goes. Freedom is in Brooklyn now. He
Speaker 1: still produces records, He still mentors young artists, He sells
Speaker 1: real estate, does construction here and there. By the looks
Speaker 1: of it, when's a lot of bodybuilding competitions. If fame
Speaker 1: is freedom, do you feel that you got free?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 9: No, no, because of me as a person, not generally speaking,
Speaker 9: you know, I'm looking for the land now.
Speaker 4: I live in Brooklyn, but I want horses and cows.
Speaker 9: Now I want freedom, you know my own water. Freedom
Speaker 9: is not money. Money allows you to get off the
Speaker 9: grid to freedom. So money actually is a trap. The
Speaker 9: more you get, the more you want. When you get
Speaker 9: used to find things, you don't know how to well
Speaker 9: your own water. You don't know how to pick chickens
Speaker 9: from your own yard just you used to go into
Speaker 9: the store. So are you free? If the people who
Speaker 9: live like that live to be one hundred, but you
Speaker 9: got cancer at fifty, are you free?
Speaker 4: So? Freedom is not having everything you want.
Speaker 9: Freedom to me means giving up all the things you
Speaker 9: don't need.
Speaker 1: My recommendation is that if you have a chance to
Speaker 1: talk to Freedom Williams, take it. He's friendly, he's fascinating.
Speaker 1: He will make you go hmm. Freedom learned his craft
Speaker 1: in the eighties so that he could meet people, make
Speaker 1: himself useful, and really seize his moment. When it came
Speaker 1: around in the nineties, Sudden Impact did something else. They
Speaker 1: started with the marketing before they had a record out,
Speaker 1: They made a poster. They built the buzz before there
Speaker 1: was anything to buzz about, and it worked. It's that
Speaker 1: poster They got Michael Bivens to sign them and change
Speaker 1: the course of their lives forever. And now it is
Speaker 1: in my inbox. So let's talk about that poster. Sudden
Speaker 1: Impact had their uniform white shirts and neckties. White guys
Speaker 1: had matching sport coats on a sweltering Houston afternoon. Outsiders
Speaker 1: for Life were all do rags and soul patches in
Speaker 1: the style of the year two thousand. I've seen these
Speaker 1: guys and many of their various esthetics, but in all
Speaker 1: of them, they were always styled by someone else. They
Speaker 1: were inscrutable, unknowable. I never had a sense for who
Speaker 1: these guys were until I saw this poster.
Speaker 2: I look at two special.
Speaker 1: All huddled up under the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: all fifteen or sixteen or seventeen years old, and I
Speaker 1: finally feel like I know these guys.
Speaker 2: I grew up with these guys.
Speaker 1: Todd is all the way to the left, racing stripes
Speaker 1: shaved into his temples like vanilla ice, acid washed jeans,
Speaker 1: pegged at the ankle, dirty Nike shoes in the sand.
Speaker 1: Alan is next to him, wearing a bold polka dot,
Speaker 1: something David Silver would wear on a date with Donald
Speaker 1: Martin on nine O two one zero. Noel Kine is
Speaker 1: next to him, serving blue steel before we even had
Speaker 1: a name for it, in a T shirt and shorts.
Speaker 1: And then there's Aaron smiling, the brash smile of the
Speaker 1: high school jock under what might be a teenage attempt
Speaker 1: at a mustache, a baggy guccy T shirt, barefoot, serving
Speaker 1: you toes. These are kids. These are kids with big plans.
Speaker 1: This is a high school dropout with something to prove.
Speaker 1: This is the son of a major in the Air
Speaker 1: Force trying to make his own way. This is a
Speaker 1: high school baseball star finding a new family with the
Speaker 1: kids from the other side of the tracks. And this
Speaker 1: is the handsome little brother who's along for the ride.
Speaker 1: I know these kids, so do you. Right now, under
Speaker 1: some bridge somewhere, a few of them are posing, making
Speaker 1: content for their Instagram or filming their video. There will
Speaker 1: always be kids misunderstood by their parents, giggle that by
Speaker 1: their peers, desperate to make their mark. I see what
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens saw in this poster. I see why it's
Speaker 1: his mom's favorite. I even see why it got them
Speaker 1: signed to a record label. It's timeless, just from that
Speaker 1: damn too special poster.
Speaker 6: Just from the poster. The poster got us there. That
Speaker 6: point got us to Capitol. I would say, Yeah, we
Speaker 6: pointed our way right to it.
Speaker 1: You know what got you there is boldness like you
Speaker 1: guys took a huge swim.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we just didn't.
Speaker 6: I don't think it was something where we didn't have
Speaker 6: anything to lose at that point, Me and Tad felt
Speaker 6: just was the.
Speaker 4: Way, this is what we wanted to do.
Speaker 6: And it kept us, I would say, from getting into
Speaker 6: childhood mischief because we were so driven on what to do,
Speaker 6: you know, and what do we have to do to
Speaker 6: get to the next point. And even when a lot
Speaker 6: of this stuff happens, like I'm sure you're gonna get
Speaker 6: into we still kept.
Speaker 4: Pushing like we still hadn't, you know, just tried.
Speaker 1: By now you know how this story unfolds, The boys
Speaker 1: go from Motown to Capitol to bivten, then off biften
Speaker 1: and onto Stone Creek, and then Stone Creek goes away
Speaker 1: and then onto a Leah's label Blackground, and.
Speaker 2: Off of that. What I suspected is that.
Speaker 1: By this time and their story, the guys were pretty
Speaker 1: fed up the part of the story I hadn't heard.
Speaker 1: Was the night Todd finally vented that frustration. Blackground was
Speaker 1: a record label started by a Leah's uncle, Barry Hankerson,
Speaker 1: and one night after another endless wait to get an
Speaker 1: album released, Todd had a few drinks and gave Barry
Speaker 1: a piece of his mind.
Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with Barry. You remember this, Allen.
Speaker 3: I was drunk.
Speaker 7: Well, I I got real drunk one night, man, and
Speaker 7: I'm gonna tell you I had a conversation with Barry's
Speaker 7: attorney dude flat said, look, this is some bs shit.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 7: What y'all are doing? Man, this is this is you
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying, It's it ain't right man, you're
Speaker 7: playing god with me, you know.
Speaker 6: What I mean?
Speaker 3: Let me fucking go. If you don't plan on doing something,
Speaker 3: let us fucking go. What do you hold on to
Speaker 3: us for?
Speaker 7: Obviously, obviously there's something there that you don't want to
Speaker 7: let go. You just don't know how to You just
Speaker 7: don't know how to handle it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: Were we the best group in the world vocally?
Speaker 3: No, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: But there's a lot of other groups I can name,
Speaker 7: But I'm not going to you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 7: because I don't do that shit.
Speaker 3: Man. But we had we had good music at that time.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: It feels cathartic for me too. This confrontation was a
Speaker 1: significant moment in that it got them dropped from Blackground.
Speaker 1: Their album once again didn't get released. Outsiders for Life
Speaker 1: self released an album in two thousand and six with
Speaker 1: the tracks ass Like That and Slipping Slide. It's up
Speaker 1: on the streaming services if you want to listen. But
Speaker 1: by the time the album was released, the guys were
Speaker 1: burned out.
Speaker 7: Then it was time to grow the fuck up. Let's
Speaker 7: be real, man, we're getting old.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 7: It's a about growing up man, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: Are we going to keep doing this? Or or am
Speaker 7: I going to be thirty years old living?
Speaker 4: You know, saying in a tent?
Speaker 3: What am I going to do with my life?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? What am I?
Speaker 3: What am I going to do now? So we had
Speaker 3: a restructure. I wanted kids. I didn't want to run
Speaker 3: around chasing a dream, you know what I mean?
Speaker 7: And so you know we did that. We took a break.
Speaker 7: I think I took a break I didn't do music
Speaker 7: for how long? How like ten years?
Speaker 4: Man? Yeah, it was it was like ten years.
Speaker 7: It was like ten years. I didn't touch music. I
Speaker 7: didn't do nothing.
Speaker 6: I would tell you this though, Man, I would think
Speaker 6: it's the time frame too. Man, we just we came
Speaker 6: out what we were doing there doing now, I would
Speaker 6: say time frame wise, if you look at it, we
Speaker 6: were just in the wrong time period.
Speaker 4: There was social media.
Speaker 6: We could have pushed so much stuff and done our
Speaker 6: own podcasts and done our own you know, follow the
Speaker 6: band type things.
Speaker 4: Back then, there wasn't nothing but AOL messenger, you know
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: We didn't have no internet back then. Man, we didn't
Speaker 3: have MP three's back in.
Speaker 1: The timing was just not right. The timing was never right.
Speaker 1: But their attitude about it is good. They're not bitter
Speaker 1: and there's something that I have to know. It sounds
Speaker 1: like I already know the answer to this question. But
Speaker 1: are you glad you took that trip out to.
Speaker 4: La Yes, me and him. I would tell you could.
Speaker 6: You can't pay for the experiences that we went through.
Speaker 6: You can go to college and people can talk about
Speaker 6: their college years. I watched some of the most Hall
Speaker 6: of Fame type things in the music business.
Speaker 4: Go. I met Aleah, I've hung out with her. She
Speaker 4: told me, I'm want in a million. I got video
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 6: I got video with boys to men and things that
Speaker 6: I probably you can't even experience, being an end of
Speaker 6: the road video shoot, the all the video shoots we
Speaker 6: went to, walking through these things and living. I would
Speaker 6: say it was the closest thing to being famous without
Speaker 6: being famous.
Speaker 7: Yeah, man, I think, I think. Man, you know, it's
Speaker 7: a journey. We're all on man, even you date.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. We're all on this journey.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: You know, you get to you get.
Speaker 7: To a place, you go left, you go right, there,
Speaker 7: you go right and find out right it wasn't the
Speaker 7: right way.
Speaker 3: You go left again, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 3: you know it's all life's journey, man, It's everything's meant
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 7: You know your story's gonna play out, you know, and
Speaker 7: you know life's the song man.
Speaker 3: That's what I say. Life's the song man. Look around you, man.
Speaker 2: So I have found three of the guys from Sudden Impact.
Speaker 1: All that are left are Noel Kine, who I have
Speaker 1: emailed a few times and he just hasn't gone back
Speaker 1: to me and the elusive quiet Dave Smith, the guy
Speaker 1: who they tell me turned his back on the whole thing.
Speaker 1: After we get off the zoom call, I decided to
Speaker 1: take a swing with Todd and see if maybe he
Speaker 1: has any idea how I can get a hold of
Speaker 1: Dave Smith. Any emails right back? Yeah, man, I talked
Speaker 1: to him last week. Here's his email, and so I
Speaker 1: emailed Dave Smith and he gets back in thirty minutes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sure, I'd love to talk. This is so much easier
Speaker 2: than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1: I also ask Alan whether who Are You is a
Speaker 1: dis track and he says yes, but we were in
Speaker 1: a pissed off state of mind. We grew a lot
Speaker 1: from that lol. As to who they were dissing, I
Speaker 1: guess I'll have to get it from Dave Distrack Smith himself,
Speaker 1: Michael Bibvens. Though, still nothing, But I want you to
Speaker 1: hear something Todd said as the Zoom was wrapping up,
Speaker 1: something that is made even more poignant by the fact
Speaker 1: that his connection is a little dodgy.
Speaker 3: It's definitely not is definitely not over.
Speaker 1: It makes me think about what Scott Gimpel said in
Speaker 1: the first episode of this show.
Speaker 6: I don't like the idea of endings because I don't
Speaker 6: like thinking that it's over for anybody.
Speaker 2: This is a show about audacity.
Speaker 1: This is a show about taking big swings, and I'm
Speaker 1: beginning to wonder whether these guys might be about to
Speaker 1: take another one. We'll find out on the finale of
Speaker 1: Waiting for Impact, a Dave Holmes passion project. This has
Speaker 1: been an Exactly Right production. Written by me Dave Holmes,
Speaker 1: produced by Hannah Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Andrew Eapen. Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson,
Speaker 1: Music by Ben Wise, artwork by Garrett Ross. Executive produced
Speaker 1: by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hard Stark and Danielle Kramer.
Speaker 2: Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook.
Speaker 1: And Twitter at exactly where, and follow me at Dave Holmes.
Speaker 2: For more information, go to exactly Rightmedia dot com.
Speaker 1: Binge the show add free on stitch your premium for
Speaker 1: a free month. Head to Stitcher Premium dot com, slash
Speaker 1: Impact and enter promo code Impact.
Speaker 2: You select a
Speaker 1: Monthly plan, listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts