1
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Speaker 1: So far, Like Michael Bivens at the time of the

2
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Speaker 1: filming of the Boys to Men Motown Philly video, I

3
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Speaker 1: have heard zero music from Sudden Impact, not the original recipe,

4
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,440
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one version, not the five guys in the video.

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I actually can hear the music of

6
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,600
Speaker 1: Sudden Impacts because it's locked in a vault at Capitol Records.

7
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Speaker 1: I've heard White Guys quick Verse on the East Coast

8
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Speaker 1: family song one Forour All four to one, and they

9
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 1: sound good, but I haven't heard any full songs because

10
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Speaker 1: whatever they recorded is locked in a vault, and Motown Records,

11
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Speaker 1: which distributed music from Michael Bivens' biv ten label, which

12
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Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore. I haven't heard any music from the

13
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Speaker 1: Outsiders either, because whatever they recorded under that name is

14
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Speaker 1: the property of Sony Music, which distributed Boys to Men's

15
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Speaker 1: Stone Creek label, which also doesn't exist anymore. I have

16
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Speaker 1: heard some of the songs the guys recorded as Outsiders

17
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Speaker 1: for Life after Aaron and Noel Kane left the group

18
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Speaker 1: and Jimmy Marble and Jason Dowdy joined. It's a little

19
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Speaker 1: harder than I was expecting, a little angrier, a little

20
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Speaker 1: more Timberland because it was the year two thousand and

21
00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: everything was more tim Milandy back then it was the law.

22
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Speaker 1: But from the original five I have still heard no music.

23
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Speaker 1: But thanks to Jason and Tim Bird, I have made

24
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Speaker 1: contact with Todd White and Alan Healy, and before we speak,

25
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Speaker 1: I ask them whether they have the other major thing

26
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Speaker 1: I'm missing, maybe the biggest piece of the puzzle so far,

27
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Speaker 1: the thing that put this story into motion, the two

28
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Speaker 1: special poster, the picture that got Michael Bivens to sign them.

29
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Speaker 1: They have it, and before we speak they send it

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Speaker 1: to me. So now I have it, I'm going to

31
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Speaker 1: break it down for you pixel by pixel, pegged Jean

32
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Speaker 1: by peg Jane. I'll talk about it with Todd and

33
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Speaker 1: Allen and I will get the sudden impact story from

34
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Speaker 1: their perspective. I'll do a little digging as to whether

35
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Speaker 1: one of their later songs who Are You was a

36
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Speaker 1: disc track, and if so, who was getting dissed and why?

37
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Speaker 1: Plus a conversation with a voice you could not escape

38
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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, I'm going to catch up with

39
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Speaker 1: Freedom Williams of Seeing Music Factory, who is as always

40
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: gonna make you sweat? This is waiting for impact a

41
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:29,119
Speaker 1: Dave Holmes Passion Project, Todd White, Alan Healey, Holy, how

42
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Speaker 1: I cannot believe him talking to the both of you.

43
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Speaker 2: This is nuts. First of all, how are you good man?

44
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:38,519
Speaker 3: Happy to be alive?

45
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 4: We're both good.

46
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Todd and Allen over Zoom. They're both

47
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,919
Speaker 1: in their individual homes. They live about thirty minutes away

48
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Speaker 1: from each other in Virginia, and as I talk to them,

49
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Speaker 1: I'm reminded of something.

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Speaker 2: They're outsiders for life.

51
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 1: Bandmate Jason Dowdy told me about them, One that Todd

52
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: is the hard charger of the group, the engine, and

53
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: two that Alan Heally was their street cred. Here's what

54
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:00,760
Speaker 1: he said about that, just.

55
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Speaker 5: You know, like from his the family he's from, and

56
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 5: the people he knows in the area, like he's kind

57
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 5: of down with you know, some people from the streets

58
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Speaker 5: it that way, you know what I mean.

59
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Speaker 1: I don't actually know what Jason means, but of course

60
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Speaker 1: now I'm expecting some kind of Virginia Beach sopranos character

61
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Speaker 1: a tough guy, and maybe he is, but right now

62
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Speaker 1: over Zoom, the two of them could not be nicer.

63
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Speaker 1: Maybe they've mellowed with age, or maybe they're just happy

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Speaker 1: to be talking about this stuff. Either way, you will

65
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: believe how Todd White.

66
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Speaker 2: Met Alan Heally. How did Todd White and Alan Healy meet.

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Speaker 4: Over a girl? Actually?

68
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Speaker 6: I think I started dating one of Todd's a's girlfriends

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Speaker 6: and I got told that Todd White wanted to talk

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Speaker 6: to me, and so I was like really, So then

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Speaker 6: he told me I met him, and he was like,

72
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Speaker 6: you know, treater good.

73
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Speaker 4: She's a good girl type deal.

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Speaker 6: And me and him actually became really good friends through this,

75
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Speaker 6: and then those girls disappeared in our friendship kept on.

76
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Speaker 4: So it's kind of really interesting girls.

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Speaker 1: Man, Todd, My understanding is that that is how you

78
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Speaker 1: met Aaron Kane.

79
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was yep, Todd.

80
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Speaker 2: How many girlfriends did you have?

81
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Speaker 3: I had a lot of girlfriends.

82
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Speaker 4: Yeah, friends that were girls.

83
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Speaker 3: Yeah, friends that were girls.

84
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Speaker 7: I don't know, man, I had to get rid of

85
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 7: a lot of that stuff, Dave, so I could make

86
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Speaker 7: room for new memories.

87
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Speaker 1: Have you noticed that everyone involved with Sudden Impact or

88
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Speaker 1: Michael Bivens says my name back to me when they

89
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: answer a question, Hayden and Evett did it too. I

90
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Speaker 1: can't help but wonder whether that was part of the

91
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 1: training Michael Bivens put them through. Anyway, it works when

92
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Speaker 1: these guys were teenagers. Though Todd was a bit of

93
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Speaker 1: a wild child, it was an energy alan really clicked with.

94
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Speaker 6: Our parents were both majors in the army, so very

95
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Speaker 6: structured lifestyle. And then you have some people that go

96
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 6: into that lifestyle, I'd say, and then you have guys

97
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 6: like us that completely fought against our dads and hated it.

98
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 4: So many of us joined the military. We went.

99
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,560
Speaker 6: I asked my mom is Vietnamese Mom, I don't want

100
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 6: to do the Air Force and she was like, what

101
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Speaker 6: do you want to do? I said, I want to

102
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Speaker 6: hang out with Todd, and you know, you know, she

103
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Speaker 6: was like, follow your dreams, do whatever you want to do.

104
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Speaker 6: So it was a it was a different you know,

105
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Speaker 6: but titled just that guy man. He was just somebody

106
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Speaker 6: that always people are talking about him because he's either

107
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Speaker 6: pissing them.

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Speaker 4: Off or they liked him. Do you like Tid or

109
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Speaker 4: you hated Todd? Todder?

110
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Speaker 2: How does that feel to hear that?

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Speaker 3: It's cool?

112
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Speaker 4: Man?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'll tell you this, man.

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Speaker 7: You know, we grow old, man, we grow apart man,

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Speaker 7: and uh well, not really a part but like with

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Speaker 7: me and Allen. Man, we can go like, you know,

117
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Speaker 7: a week, two, three, well a month without to talk

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Speaker 7: to each other and call and pick right up where

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Speaker 7: we left off, right where we.

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Speaker 3: Left off, man, you know, and uh, it's cool man.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: It was a real good bond. There still is.

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Speaker 7: It's always been. It's always been really you know. But

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Speaker 7: you know, yet life happens.

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Speaker 2: You know, how are your parents with your decision to

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Speaker 2: pursue music.

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Speaker 3: Oh they care whatever as long as he does something

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Speaker 3: with himself.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: What kind of kids were you? What kind of teenagers

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Speaker 2: were you?

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Speaker 6: Were?

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Speaker 4: Kids?

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Speaker 2: Bad kids, wild?

135
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Speaker 6: I would tell you I was good all the way

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Speaker 6: till about when I started hanging out with Todd. I

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Speaker 6: was started getting where he was not in school, ninth grade,

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Speaker 6: he was out. I got a call and it'll be

139
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Speaker 6: Todd telling me, Hey, calling sick. We're going to go

140
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Speaker 6: to the beach. We're going to write to you know.

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Speaker 6: Then he started. There was all the music and being

142
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Speaker 6: around him. You never knew what to expected. This guy

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Speaker 6: all right, with a lot of parties we weren't allowed

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Speaker 6: to come to locally, And that all changed once we

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Speaker 6: got into boys and Men's video of course.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's back up here a little bit and

147
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Speaker 1: talk about how Too Special the first version of Sudden

148
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Speaker 1: Impact came together. We know Todd White met Aaron Kane

149
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Speaker 1: at a party when they were about to get into

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Speaker 1: a fist fight over a girl. We know that the

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Speaker 1: original version of the group was Todd, Aaron, and another

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Speaker 1: guy named Eric. What we don't know is how Alan

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Speaker 1: entered the fold.

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Speaker 6: I'll kind of tell you kind of what happened for

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Speaker 6: me to get in this group. Todd and I were

156
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Speaker 6: always kind of just friends that acted crazy. I mean,

157
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Speaker 6: if I want to do summer laugh, I go hang

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Speaker 6: out with Todd. Tide was always a damn nut, you know,

159
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Speaker 6: carried through all the way to when we're this age.

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Speaker 4: Now. My son loves to go hang out with Todd

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Speaker 4: just because Todd's wild. All right.

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Speaker 6: So I was in Washington State and I got this

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Speaker 6: phone call about and Todd played me a song over

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Speaker 6: the over the thing, and it was in a group

165
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Speaker 6: called Two Special Tight, you know, and I was like

166
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Speaker 6: and said, that sounds pretty damn good man.

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Speaker 4: I actually enjoyed that. So he told me that the

168
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Speaker 4: two guys were.

169
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Speaker 6: Getting ready to move and he needed the guy in

170
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Speaker 6: the group, and he was like, if you want to

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Speaker 6: come back to Virginia, you know, I'll you know, I'll

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Speaker 6: put you in this group.

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Speaker 4: And so I was like, all right.

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Speaker 1: I just want to chime in here and remind you

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Speaker 1: that this level of wheeling and dealing, these potential cross

176
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Speaker 1: country moves and personnel changes, these were all being negotiated

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Speaker 1: among sixteen year old.

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Speaker 4: Boys and Aaron them didn't really know me too well.

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Speaker 6: And I came in and it was kind of a

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Speaker 6: little bit of a first like, oh, he's Todd's guy,

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Speaker 6: you know, and this helps tide, you know, decisions now,

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Speaker 6: it's his best friend type thing. And so we got

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Speaker 6: together and I told him when I got in the group,

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Speaker 6: I wanted to, you know, not just do local shows.

185
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Speaker 6: I wanted to start, Hey, let's make this big, Let's

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Speaker 6: do something. And so me and him started. He had

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Speaker 6: that I would say a lot of the talent. Todd

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Speaker 6: has always been really good at writing hooks.

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Speaker 1: Todd, what was the name too Special?

190
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Speaker 2: All about? How did that?

191
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Speaker 7: I have no clue, as you, man, I mean, it's catchy.

192
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Speaker 7: I wish I could remember, man, I honestly have no clue, man,

193
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Speaker 7: you know, even a song I look back at the

194
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Speaker 7: song please be.

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Speaker 4: Mine, be my girl, Please be mine.

196
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Speaker 3: Dun dum dump my girl, like were begging.

197
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Speaker 6: You know, it's but we were man, you're think you're

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Speaker 6: sixteen years old. Man, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I do know exactly what he's saying. But what I'm

200
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 1: dying to know about is how they made the decision

201
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 1: as two sixteen year old boys to take their poster,

202
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,680
Speaker 1: which again we're going to talk about later in the show,

203
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 1: and fly all the way across the country to try something.

204
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 1: What I didn't know is that getting a record deal

205
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: wasn't just a happy accident. It was the fulfillment of

206
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 1: a promise. So let's talk about the trip to Los

207
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: Angeles for Marvin Gaye's Walk of Fame ceremony.

208
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 2: Did you drive, did you fly? What did you did?

209
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 2: You tell your parents?

210
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, tell our parents.

211
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 6: We asked everyone to go, So we asked Tid's mom.

212
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 4: I will tell you was like our manager.

213
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 6: She pretty much put up every bit of money anything

214
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 6: for Tide. She would put up whatever she just wanted

215
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 6: Tie not to going to jail. You know, be somebody,

216
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,319
Speaker 6: And I would tell you music probably saved his butt

217
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 6: from going to jail straight up. Because me and Todd

218
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 6: both looked at each other and you can't sing from

219
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 6: jail and make money. So we're like, you know, at

220
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 6: least nowadays you might be able to, but not back then.

221
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Speaker 6: So we were kind of like, hey, let's go do this.

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Speaker 6: I went and talked to my mom, and my mom

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Speaker 6: will take to this day. I asked her and I slammed.

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Speaker 6: My father had a you know, we lived in Germany,

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Speaker 6: so yeah, and Mercedes Bens.

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Speaker 4: I asked her, let me go with Todd. She said no,

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Speaker 4: and I slammed the Mercedes Benz door so hard and

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Speaker 4: slash at her door.

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Speaker 6: Windows smashed, just went straight down, and she looked at

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Speaker 6: me and she was like, you know, just pissed off.

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Speaker 6: So I go to Todd and she comes back the

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Speaker 6: next day and talked to Todd's mom and said, Alan,

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Speaker 6: I work hard for my money. I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 6: this money if you go to LA come back with something.

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Speaker 6: And I was like, I promise you, I'm not going

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Speaker 6: out there just to do nothing.

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Speaker 4: I'm going out there to come back with something.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get a recording contract off a poster because

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Speaker 1: they were lucky. They got it because Alan promised his

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Speaker 1: mom he would, and these guys are men.

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Speaker 2: Of their word. Cecil Jenkins.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, Marvin Gay's friend and local music promoter,

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Speaker 1: might not have been as good a guy as I thought.

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Speaker 6: And so Todd and I are out there. Supposedly he's

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Speaker 6: gonna take care of us. Okay, We're gonna go out there.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna take care of this guy disappeared on us

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Speaker 6: for the first night. To me and Todd decided because

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Speaker 6: he left us there and just left us in hotel.

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Speaker 6: We were kind of just I think his paycheck to

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Speaker 6: get to La. So we get out there and we

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Speaker 6: just get left and like we're supposed to be staying

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Speaker 6: with him.

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Speaker 4: But guess what, guys, I can't get you in the place.

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Speaker 4: Kada YadA. So we were like, you know, it's true,

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Speaker 4: let's walk around LA. We're out here.

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Speaker 6: So you know, I'm a military brat, so I'm like,

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Speaker 6: let's go. I've been in Germany, I've been in Paris.

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Speaker 4: We can make this.

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Speaker 1: Alan Heally and Todd White are sixteen years old, more

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Speaker 1: confident and resourceful than I will ever be.

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Speaker 6: We go out there and this guy's up on the

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Speaker 6: stage of Marvin Gaye's you know, family. So we're up

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Speaker 6: there at the start and I'm like, man, this dude

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Speaker 6: kind of just dissing the hell out of us, really, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, honestly.

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Speaker 6: So we're Mike Bivins comes up and runs next to

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Speaker 6: us and stands like watching what's going on in Todd season.

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Speaker 6: And I remember he Tide's like, yo, Alan, give him

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Speaker 6: the poster, and you know, he walks off. So I

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Speaker 6: walked up to him, like, yo, man, this a poster

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Speaker 6: and he's like, I'm gonna keep that shit out of

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Speaker 6: my face. And I'm like, I was like, well, this

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Speaker 6: guy just told me to. I go back and tell Todd.

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Speaker 6: I'm like, yo, this. He goes what he's saying. I'm like,

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Speaker 6: dude just told me to get that shit out of

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Speaker 6: his face, and Time looks at me. He goes give

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Speaker 6: me that and he runs back over there and Mike's like, hey, man,

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Speaker 6: I didn't know, man, I thought that was a new

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Speaker 6: Kid poster and asked me to sign it, you know,

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Speaker 6: like it's like kind of a disc like because they

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Speaker 6: were supposed to be like new Kids from Areas Starshit.

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Speaker 6: So he got kind of pissy and then he goes, no, okay,

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Speaker 6: am I bad. So he points to Todd and tells Todd, hey,

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Speaker 6: come over here, and so we you know, Tid points

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Speaker 6: to me and we both go over there and he's like.

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Speaker 4: Man, I'm so sorry. I thought she was this group.

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Speaker 6: So he brings us up to Motown Records and we

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Speaker 6: go right into the president's office, Gerald Busby's office, like,

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Speaker 6: walk up, like man, Me and him have a poster

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Speaker 6: in one song, please be on to it. Right into

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Speaker 6: the office, and I'm sitting there like amazing, we're in

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Speaker 6: this guy's office. I'm oh, my god, you know.

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Speaker 4: And so he starts telling Jerald how this.

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Speaker 6: Is going to be my new group, another group after

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Speaker 6: another bad creation of boys to men, this is my

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Speaker 6: new group, and so he starts askings, can you sing

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Speaker 6: like this?

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Speaker 4: And I didn't. Man, I mean like, if I'm at

299
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Speaker 4: a job, you asked me if I can do something?

300
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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I can do it. We can do whatever.

301
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Speaker 4: So I sell our group.

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Speaker 6: Me and Ty are sitting there and we just keep

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Speaker 6: talking and he's like, hey, look, I don't know what

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Speaker 6: you came.

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Speaker 4: Out here to do, but you've accomplished it. Go back

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Speaker 4: to Virginia and go home.

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Speaker 3: I'll call you.

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Speaker 1: What I love about everyone's version of this story is

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Speaker 1: that nobody has told me what happened between Michael Bibvens

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Speaker 1: looking at the two special poster and Michael Bivins driving

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Speaker 1: Todd and Allen to Motown Records. And I think nobody's

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Speaker 1: told me what happened because nothing happened in between. He

313
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Speaker 1: really did just see the poster and make the decision,

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Speaker 1: and Motown was just as quick to jump. Jeral Buzzby

315
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Speaker 1: asks if you can sing? Does he at any time

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Speaker 1: hear you sing?

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Speaker 6: At that point, Mike says, don't worry about it. I

318
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Speaker 6: got these are my guys. They're gonna be able to

319
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Speaker 6: so be and Todd didn't have count to sing in

320
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Speaker 6: the office.

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Speaker 1: At that point, they have a meeting with Motown Records.

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Speaker 1: They get Michael Bivens' number, and I promise that something

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Speaker 1: will happen, and they call that number right away.

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Speaker 4: Before we left.

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Speaker 6: We called that dude in the morning like I've been

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Speaker 6: even called Mike at seven in the morning and he's like, dude,

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Speaker 6: it's me, it's my number, go home, trust me.

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Speaker 4: Then we go back to Virginia and we're.

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Speaker 6: Telling all Aaron and all them, Hey, guys, we got

330
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Speaker 6: some We gotta tell y'all we got something.

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Speaker 4: Trust me.

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Speaker 1: And before they head home, they have one last conversation

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Speaker 1: with Cecil Jenkins.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: We go back to our accon lodge and that dude

336
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 6: calls it Udd and goes, hey, did y'all see me

337
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Speaker 6: on the stage.

338
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Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, we saw you on the stage.

339
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 6: And here I said, Hey man, I said to go,

340
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Speaker 6: I got that question for you. Can you give me

341
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Speaker 6: a meet with Jerald buzby tomorrow? And the guy's like, oh, hey, nah, Man,

342
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Speaker 6: I ain't gonna be able to you know, swing that

343
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Speaker 6: yeahda YadA.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, well, okay, we're going home tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: We'll talk to you later. And so we got in

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Speaker 4: our plane and we left.

347
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Speaker 1: The guys have a pending record deal with the legendary

348
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Speaker 1: Motown Record but before anything else can happen, another quick

349
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Speaker 1: personnel change.

350
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Speaker 4: So we get home and we tell.

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Speaker 6: Aaron and Noel and everybody, and then we tell them, hey,

352
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Speaker 6: we're bringing.

353
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Speaker 4: Dave in the group.

354
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Speaker 6: We got another guy. We're bringing it because me and

355
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Speaker 6: Todd decided we were decided we're gonna put Dave in

356
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Speaker 6: the group. So we you know, this Yeah, they got

357
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Speaker 6: pissed it first, so we didn't care. It was, you know,

358
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Speaker 6: kind of Todd's dealing my deal. At this point, we

359
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Speaker 6: were wanting to do our vision.

360
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Speaker 2: What was the vision at the beginning.

361
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Speaker 6: The vision at the beginning was, I would tell you

362
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 6: we were inspired by us straight up saying, new kids

363
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Speaker 6: on the block. We saw some dudes singing and we

364
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 6: were like, damn it, we can to do that. Man

365
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Speaker 6: and Tied had been in like choir.

366
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Speaker 4: And he was in beforeen. He was in school, he

367
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Speaker 4: was in chorus and all that stuff.

368
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Speaker 1: The next step was an appearance on b ET. Michael

369
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 1: Bivens was booked on Donnie Simpson's show Video Soul to

370
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Speaker 1: announce his development deal with Motown and introduce the world

371
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Speaker 1: to his groups Boys to Men. Another bad creation and

372
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Speaker 1: sudden impact. But b ET was in Washington, d C.

373
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Speaker 1: A couple hours drive from Virginia Beach. And you know

374
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Speaker 1: how Aaron and Knowles's parents are about these excursions.

375
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Speaker 4: So we had to force his now Aaron and Knowles's

376
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Speaker 4: parents to let us take.

377
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Speaker 6: Them because me and Tyd are like, we're going. Regardless

378
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 6: whether you go or not, we'll replace you. Someone's going

379
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Speaker 6: with us. I mean, I don't care who it is. Yeah,

380
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Speaker 6: you know, And so Aaron really wanted to do it.

381
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Speaker 4: Aaron was, you know, he's still singing today. He really

382
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Speaker 4: wanted to do it.

383
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Speaker 6: So he shot up there with us and Noel jumped

384
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Speaker 6: in the car and we all jumped into Dave's five

385
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 6: point zero convertible, trying to fit in the back seat.

386
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Speaker 4: It was rough up three hours.

387
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 3: The DC back seat, small, back seat small.

388
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 6: We show up and uh, it's ABC, I guess releasing

389
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 6: the debut of Aisha. We are there and we see

390
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 6: Boys and Men sing married, don't you week? And that's

391
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 6: when we were like, wow, that's the singing group, you

392
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying. So we learned real quick. And

393
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 6: we weren't that yet. Man, we weren't, I would say,

394
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 6: you know, we we were still in the very beginnings

395
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 6: of being a group. We're still writing our records, We're

396
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Speaker 6: still trying to figure out what was going on, who

397
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 6: we were right.

398
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Speaker 4: We're still developing ourselves.

399
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 6: The next thing we had come up was we were

400
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 6: supposed to, you know, we find out, Okay, we're gonna

401
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 6: shoot Motown Philly video because they I should just released

402
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 6: now Boys and Men's gonna shoot their debut video in Philly.

403
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 6: So we get a call and me and Tyd are like,

404
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 6: all right, when do we need to be there?

405
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 4: And they said early in the morning on this day.

406
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 6: Okay, Me and Todd left that night because we wanted

407
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 6: to be there early.

408
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 2: What was shooting that video?

409
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 4: Like?

410
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 7: For you?

411
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 2: Do you remember that day?

412
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 4: Yeah? I can remember it. This thing? How about you?

413
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:55,560
Speaker 7: Todd?

414
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 4: Do you remember it? Yoh? Man?

415
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 3: It was it was different? Yeah, I remember the neon sign.

416
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 3: I was like, yo, what can we put that sign?

417
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 4: Yeah?

418
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 2: We wanted that so it was an actual sign.

419
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,719
Speaker 4: They couldn't do like effects back then.

420
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 3: They had a real, actually a neon sign.

421
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 1: Man, there is an actual, practical sudden impact neon sign

422
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 1: and it must still exist somewhere. Where is it a

423
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 1: museum a private collection? I have a goal now find it?

424
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 1: And Lara Croft tomb rate or that ship?

425
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 2: So were there were there other takes? Were there other

426
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 2: concepts besides the point?

427
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,000
Speaker 6: Do you just kind of get that trot and let

428
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 6: me tell you man, we could we had not that

429
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,160
Speaker 6: took a while?

430
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 4: Well no, yeah.

431
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 6: Another thing was they didn't have no you know, it

432
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 6: was like a last minute thing we're doing a video

433
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 6: and bibs like I'm gonna put my my next group

434
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 6: in here. So they if you notice, Aaron's wearing a

435
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 6: bow tie and the rest of us are wearing ties.

436
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,159
Speaker 4: The reason why is because they only had four boys

437
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 4: to men, so they had four ties.

438
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,479
Speaker 6: So Aaron, because he was one of the leads at

439
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 6: the time, said I'll go ahead and wear the bow tie.

440
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 6: So all of the rest of us and They're like,

441
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 6: what are you all gonna do? And I was like, shit,

442
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 6: I don't know what we're gonna do.

443
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 4: You know.

444
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 6: It was like, all right, everybody point on the count

445
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,440
Speaker 6: of so and so and so it was like, shit,

446
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 6: I can point, you know.

447
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 4: So then it's.

448
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 6: Funny you say that because people would always ask me

449
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 6: all the pointers or shit like that, you know, and

450
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 6: different different things.

451
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 4: And then yeah, it was fun man, it was.

452
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 6: It was I look back at does I still see

453
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,479
Speaker 6: them things and crack up my kids, you know, they

454
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 6: trip out that, you know, like, Dad, you weren't that cool?

455
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 2: Like you were that cool?

456
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,360
Speaker 4: I thought so I thought we were.

457
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 1: It does appear to me, though, that Dave Dave does

458
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 1: seem to be pointing at the director.

459
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, Dave, Dave's always trying to be noticing a lot.

460
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 6: He's always a little bit out on his own there.

461
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, he's always been out there a little bit.

462
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 6: So if we were all dressed and let's say urban

463
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 6: Dave's got on the skateboard stuff. He was a skater

464
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 6: at heart from Virginia, you know, he lives in Virginia

465
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 6: Beach now, so right there with Pharrell's from that whole area.

466
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 6: But that Pharrell vibe how he dressed, Dave was already

467
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 6: doing that way back in the day.

468
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 4: That was always his thing, vans and you know, looking

469
00:18:59,440 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 4: like that.

470
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 1: So the video comes out, do you feel like the

471
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 1: pressure is on now to start releasing music?

472
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 4: Yeah?

473
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 6: I thought we were going to be the next group out, okay,

474
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 6: And Ty would say you we thought, hey man, we're next,

475
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 6: you know, So we started putting stuff together. I would

476
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 6: tell you vocally, probably we weren't where we should have been, okay,

477
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 6: And that's where me and Todd when the time comes,

478
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 6: we do some switching around and stuff. But I would

479
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 6: say it was a lot of pressure. We wanted to

480
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 6: be that next group. We were trying to find a sound.

481
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: You know what happens next, The guys signed with Capital,

482
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: They record some music. Then Bivins asked them to leave

483
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 1: Capital and go with biv ten Records, which they do,

484
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: and immediately bivins roster of artists starts to grow. Also,

485
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: his vision for sudden Impact takes a turn that is unbelievable.

486
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 4: He just had a lot on his plate. Man, he threw.

487
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 6: We went from three guys and I'll see see one

488
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 6: for all for one there was twenty groups.

489
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 4: I'm like, yo, what the hell just happened?

490
00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 7: You know?

491
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 4: And now who are we behind? So we decided we

492
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 4: were going to roll and not just that.

493
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 7: Alut.

494
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 3: Remember his whole vision of us changed.

495
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 4: Man.

496
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 3: He wanted us to be like it was a EMF.

497
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: You were going to be a rave band.

498
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 3: He was all some different stuff.

499
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 4: Man.

500
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 3: We were kind of like, yo, man, that that's not us.

501
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 2: Man, If you don't remember.

502
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, the British group EMF, incidentally also

503
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,679
Speaker 1: five trendy white guys, had a number one hit in

504
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: America called Unbelievable. They were ravy, they wore baggy day

505
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 1: glow clothing, they had electronic beats. Their name stood for

506
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: ecstasy motherfuckers. It was very of the time, but not

507
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: at all what sudden impact was about. But on the

508
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: other hand, sudden impact was about to not be sudden impact.

509
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 4: First we were sudden impact. Then it changed and I

510
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 4: looked and it said.

511
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 6: Whyt g I Z And I'm like, wait, Gizzy, like

512
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 6: no white guys.

513
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 8: And I'm like wait, Gussy, And I'm like, what the

514
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 8: hell are you doing? Guzy guys like white guys, white guys.

515
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 8: That's not really man. I'm half Asian man. My mother's Vietnamese.

516
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 8: But at that point he said, it doesn't really matter.

517
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 8: That's what you all are gonna be.

518
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, wow, that's what we're gonna be, okay,

519
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 6: And so actually, you know, we, like I said, it

520
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 6: was creative differences.

521
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 4: And I think also that we just weren't. We didn't know.

522
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 4: He didn't know really what we were.

523
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 2: We didn't know we were.

524
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 6: It wasn't a thing of you know, I don't think

525
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 6: BIV hated us. I mean, that's a strong word anytime

526
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 6: someone says about it. He just didn't know what to do.

527
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 6: He used to tell us all the time, we were

528
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 6: his mom's favorite group at all of She had our

529
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 6: poster in her house.

530
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: That's a powerful poster, is what that is. And I

531
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: have it now.

532
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: We will analyze it later in the episode, but first

533
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to catch up with someone else who had

534
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: a big moment in the pop music world of the

535
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: early nineties. Someone who's time in the spotlight was also

536
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,479
Speaker 1: just before the Internet. Someone who is yesterday, today and

537
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: always gonna make you sweat. Freedom Williams smoking a cigar,

538
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: enjoying a stoke.

539
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 4: Where are you, I'm in Brooklyn.

540
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: No discussion of popular music in nineteen ninety one is

541
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 1: complete without Freedom Williams. He was the featured rapper on

542
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: the C and C Music Factory songs Gonna make You Sweat,

543
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: Here We Go and Things that make You go hmm.

544
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: His voice was everywhere, and it still is. Try to

545
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: go a week without hearing Gonna make you sweat.

546
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 9: You can't say everybody over here, everybody, Oh, but there,

547
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 9: the cloud is not but no, a fool is body

548
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 9: people than the house?

549
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: See there it is, you just heard it.

550
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: That song is a perfect example of the C and

551
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: C Music Factory sound Freedom smooth Flow, alongside Martha WASH's

552
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: powerhouse vocals. Of course, in the video for the song,

553
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: those vocals were lip syncd by a model named Zelma Davis.

554
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: Lip Syncing by models was another big thing in the

555
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: early nineties. That's a subject for another podcast. Freedom left

556
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: the group in nineteen ninety three for a solo career,

557
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: and the Music Factory shut down not too long after that.

558
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: I caught up with him at his home in Brooklyn

559
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: where he's having a cigar and sitting in front of

560
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: literally dozens of bodybuilding trophies. We're going to talk about

561
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: the whole C ANDC riot, what he's been doing since.

562
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: And I swear I didn't do this on purpose, what

563
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: Freedom really means.

564
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: I would like to talk to you about your experience

565
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: of you.

566
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: Know, nineteen ninety and ninety one. How did you come

567
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: to be involved with C ANDC Music Factory.

568
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: I was an engineer.

569
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 9: I went to engineering school when I got out of

570
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 9: college in eighty eight, eight nine, and I went to

571
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 9: work in Quad Recording Studios, now infamous Quad Studios where

572
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 9: everyone seems to get into a shootout.

573
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: All right, not everybody gets into a shootout at Quad Studios.

574
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: I haven't, but it was the.

575
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: Place where tupacsha Kork got shot five times in a

576
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four robbery. There's a theory that the Notorious

577
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: BIG's nineteen ninety five song who Shot Ya is all

578
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: about that attack, but Freedom kept it peaceful. He learned

579
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: how to be useful as an engineer in recording studios,

580
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: but what he really wanted was to be an MC

581
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: while you were engineering for other mcs, where you like,

582
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: get me in there, God, I could kill this or

583
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: did you just say, like it's my momental come.

584
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 9: Later, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I understand. You know

585
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 9: Buster rhymes when we left Leaders of the New School,

586
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 9: he would hang out at the studios with a blood

587
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 9: and try to get into the session, which is a technique.

588
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 4: You know. I used to get hide with Sladstone.

589
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 9: You know, Slatstone would come to the studio and look

590
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 9: for me as an engineer. I was twenty two. We

591
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 9: would go on the staircase and smoke a bone.

592
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: What were your goal's career wise? Where did you see

593
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: yourself in twenty thirty years time?

594
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 9: Well, to be to make money, to be to be independent.

595
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 9: You know, the goal of making music is Nobody who

596
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 9: really makes money tries to make money for the sake

597
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 9: of collecting rectangle pieces of paper. They make money for

598
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 9: the sake of being able to fly first class. And

599
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 9: pay for them to work and pay for their mom's

600
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 9: conrect surgery, or buy the card they wanted. Nobody really

601
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 9: money and of itself. So the goal of being famous

602
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 9: was to be free. You pay for freedom here. You

603
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 9: don't earn your freedom by being a humble man or

604
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 9: a decent man.

605
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 4: It costs money to be free.

606
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 9: And so as a young kid in the streets of

607
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 9: New York, any rapper may be a public Enemy or

608
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 9: christ One or Rock Kim or the boogiet Down Productions.

609
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 4: Or MC light.

610
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 9: Their goal is to get out of the hood, to

611
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 9: be free. That's why we you know, it's our you know,

612
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 9: But shit, I got to get out of here.

613
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 4: You know.

614
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: So fame was freedom.

615
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 4: Famous Freedom, absolutely Bowie.

616
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: We can't afford that, so we'll probably cut that out.

617
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: Freedom did some engineering for David Cole and Robert Clavillis,

618
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: the c's in CNC Music Factory. They had a dance

619
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: project they were trying to put together, but they needed

620
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: an MC. Freedom is an MC and they clicked and

621
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: the defining dance pop songs of nineteen ninety and ninety

622
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: one were born. But after a while Freedom wanted to

623
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 1: break out on his own. He fell out with one

624
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: of the seas and he embarked.

625
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: On a solo career.

626
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: What kind of sound were you trying to capture for

627
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: your solo record post see and see similar?

628
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 9: A similar sound, A similar sound with just a little

629
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 9: bit more edge, you know. And then and then I

630
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 9: made a lot of records that were real street records

631
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 9: too that I shocked, but people wouldn't. I couldn't get

632
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 9: deals with them because they were like, Ah, that's not

633
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 9: what you're doing, that's not who you are. I was

634
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 9: always I always say, once you do a record like that,

635
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 9: you can't really repeat that record. You have to venture

636
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 9: off into a different sound. But the fans don't want

637
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 9: you to venture off because they don't know you for that.

638
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 9: But sometimes with pop music you can get pigeonholes because

639
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 9: pop music changes me.

640
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three, Freedom released his first solo single,

641
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: Voice of Freedom, a slightly harder dance track with a

642
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: chorus that sampled George Michael's Freedom ninety. The video is

643
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: up on YouTube and it is pure uncut nineteen ninety

644
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: three Intricate choreography in front of moodily lit Shanelink Fences

645
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: Very season three of nine oh two on a wardrobe

646
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: on everyone except Freedom, who of course is shirtless and

647
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: oiled up. The song has the line dance till you

648
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: wet your pants, and that's hard.

649
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: It is wild.

650
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: But by nineteen ninety three, as you know, by now,

651
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: the charts had changed. There was conclusive proof that people

652
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: wanted a different sound. So your record comes out and

653
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: the Chronic comes out. Did you have a sense at

654
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: the time of what was happening in the culture or yeah,

655
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: just yeah.

656
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 9: You knew it was it was a problem. You could,

657
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 9: you could because I loved the Chronic record. I was like,

658
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 9: oh shit, that's bananas. I remember I remember being in

659
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 9: the limo. We were going on somewhere on.

660
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 4: The road New York.

661
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 9: We were out of the country somewhere, and somebody in

662
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 9: my crews put the yo. I got that great record

663
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 9: crazy and with the whole hour and the Limo were rocking.

664
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 9: I had a record out.

665
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 4: No, we wouln't even listen to my record. That fucking

666
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 4: chronic record was bananas.

667
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 9: Of course you understood, you know when when when when

668
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 9: Off the Wall came out, it was a game change.

669
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 4: You knew it. You know, you knew it.

670
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: So how did that feel when you're trying to promote

671
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: a record of your own.

672
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 9: The missig industry was becoming very opinionated at that point.

673
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 9: You know, if you didn't smoke weed and bust guns,

674
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 9: you weren't credible. It was one point through the early

675
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 9: the mid nineties where I remember when the La Catch

676
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 9: was making records and all of these bluffs was making records,

677
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 9: and I would watch the videos and I would be like, yo,

678
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 9: who is going to a and R that fucking project.

679
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 9: It's like thirty dudes with guns? Like, yo, who is

680
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 9: going to fucking do the project? The product management on

681
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 9: that record, Like, you got to deal with those motherfuckers,

682
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 9: Good luck with that shit.

683
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: Hold me.

684
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: So, Freedom's record deal with Sony fell apart. A few

685
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: other things materialized and then faded away. By now you

686
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: know how that goes. Freedom is in Brooklyn now. He

687
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: still produces records, He still mentors young artists, He sells

688
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: real estate, does construction here and there. By the looks

689
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: of it, when's a lot of bodybuilding competitions. If fame

690
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: is freedom, do you feel that you got free?

691
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: No?

692
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 9: No, no, because of me as a person, not generally speaking,

693
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 9: you know, I'm looking for the land now.

694
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 4: I live in Brooklyn, but I want horses and cows.

695
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 9: Now I want freedom, you know my own water. Freedom

696
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 9: is not money. Money allows you to get off the

697
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 9: grid to freedom. So money actually is a trap. The

698
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 9: more you get, the more you want. When you get

699
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 9: used to find things, you don't know how to well

700
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 9: your own water. You don't know how to pick chickens

701
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 9: from your own yard just you used to go into

702
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 9: the store. So are you free? If the people who

703
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 9: live like that live to be one hundred, but you

704
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 9: got cancer at fifty, are you free?

705
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 4: So? Freedom is not having everything you want.

706
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 9: Freedom to me means giving up all the things you

707
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 9: don't need.

708
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: My recommendation is that if you have a chance to

709
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: talk to Freedom Williams, take it. He's friendly, he's fascinating.

710
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: He will make you go hmm. Freedom learned his craft

711
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: in the eighties so that he could meet people, make

712
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: himself useful, and really seize his moment. When it came

713
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: around in the nineties, Sudden Impact did something else. They

714
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: started with the marketing before they had a record out,

715
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: They made a poster. They built the buzz before there

716
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: was anything to buzz about, and it worked. It's that

717
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: poster They got Michael Bivens to sign them and change

718
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: the course of their lives forever. And now it is

719
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: in my inbox. So let's talk about that poster. Sudden

720
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: Impact had their uniform white shirts and neckties. White guys

721
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: had matching sport coats on a sweltering Houston afternoon. Outsiders

722
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: for Life were all do rags and soul patches in

723
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: the style of the year two thousand. I've seen these

724
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: guys and many of their various esthetics, but in all

725
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: of them, they were always styled by someone else. They

726
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: were inscrutable, unknowable. I never had a sense for who

727
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: these guys were until I saw this poster.

728
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: I look at two special.

729
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: All huddled up under the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in nineteen ninety,

730
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: all fifteen or sixteen or seventeen years old, and I

731
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: finally feel like I know these guys.

732
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: I grew up with these guys.

733
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: Todd is all the way to the left, racing stripes

734
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: shaved into his temples like vanilla ice, acid washed jeans,

735
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: pegged at the ankle, dirty Nike shoes in the sand.

736
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: Alan is next to him, wearing a bold polka dot,

737
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: something David Silver would wear on a date with Donald

738
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: Martin on nine O two one zero. Noel Kine is

739
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: next to him, serving blue steel before we even had

740
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: a name for it, in a T shirt and shorts.

741
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: And then there's Aaron smiling, the brash smile of the

742
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: high school jock under what might be a teenage attempt

743
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: at a mustache, a baggy guccy T shirt, barefoot, serving

744
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: you toes. These are kids. These are kids with big plans.

745
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: This is a high school dropout with something to prove.

746
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: This is the son of a major in the Air

747
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: Force trying to make his own way. This is a

748
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: high school baseball star finding a new family with the

749
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: kids from the other side of the tracks. And this

750
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: is the handsome little brother who's along for the ride.

751
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: I know these kids, so do you. Right now, under

752
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: some bridge somewhere, a few of them are posing, making

753
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: content for their Instagram or filming their video. There will

754
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: always be kids misunderstood by their parents, giggle that by

755
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: their peers, desperate to make their mark. I see what

756
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens saw in this poster. I see why it's

757
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: his mom's favorite. I even see why it got them

758
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: signed to a record label. It's timeless, just from that

759
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: damn too special poster.

760
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 6: Just from the poster. The poster got us there. That

761
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 6: point got us to Capitol. I would say, Yeah, we

762
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 6: pointed our way right to it.

763
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: You know what got you there is boldness like you

764
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: guys took a huge swim.

765
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, we just didn't.

766
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 6: I don't think it was something where we didn't have

767
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 6: anything to lose at that point, Me and Tad felt

768
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 6: just was the.

769
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 4: Way, this is what we wanted to do.

770
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 6: And it kept us, I would say, from getting into

771
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 6: childhood mischief because we were so driven on what to do,

772
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 6: you know, and what do we have to do to

773
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 6: get to the next point. And even when a lot

774
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 6: of this stuff happens, like I'm sure you're gonna get

775
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 6: into we still kept.

776
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: Pushing like we still hadn't, you know, just tried.

777
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: By now you know how this story unfolds, The boys

778
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: go from Motown to Capitol to bivten, then off biften

779
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: and onto Stone Creek, and then Stone Creek goes away

780
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: and then onto a Leah's label Blackground, and.

781
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: Off of that. What I suspected is that.

782
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: By this time and their story, the guys were pretty

783
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: fed up the part of the story I hadn't heard.

784
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: Was the night Todd finally vented that frustration. Blackground was

785
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: a record label started by a Leah's uncle, Barry Hankerson,

786
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: and one night after another endless wait to get an

787
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: album released, Todd had a few drinks and gave Barry

788
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: a piece of his mind.

789
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with Barry. You remember this, Allen.

790
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: I was drunk.

791
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 7: Well, I I got real drunk one night, man, and

792
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 7: I'm gonna tell you I had a conversation with Barry's

793
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 7: attorney dude flat said, look, this is some bs shit.

794
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 6: Man.

795
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 7: What y'all are doing? Man, this is this is you

796
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying, It's it ain't right man, you're

797
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 7: playing god with me, you know.

798
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 6: What I mean?

799
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 3: Let me fucking go. If you don't plan on doing something,

800
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: let us fucking go. What do you hold on to

801
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: us for?

802
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 7: Obviously, obviously there's something there that you don't want to

803
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 7: let go. You just don't know how to You just

804
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 7: don't know how to handle it. You know what I'm saying.

805
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 7: Were we the best group in the world vocally?

806
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: No, you know what I'm saying.

807
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 7: But there's a lot of other groups I can name,

808
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 7: But I'm not going to you know what I'm saying,

809
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 7: because I don't do that shit.

810
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: Man. But we had we had good music at that time.

811
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 7: Man.

812
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

813
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: It feels cathartic for me too. This confrontation was a

814
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: significant moment in that it got them dropped from Blackground.

815
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: Their album once again didn't get released. Outsiders for Life

816
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: self released an album in two thousand and six with

817
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: the tracks ass Like That and Slipping Slide. It's up

818
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 1: on the streaming services if you want to listen. But

819
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: by the time the album was released, the guys were

820
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: burned out.

821
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 7: Then it was time to grow the fuck up. Let's

822
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 7: be real, man, we're getting old.

823
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 4: Man.

824
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 7: It's a about growing up man, you know what I'm saying.

825
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 7: Are we going to keep doing this? Or or am

826
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 7: I going to be thirty years old living?

827
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: You know, saying in a tent?

828
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 3: What am I going to do with my life?

829
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? What am I?

830
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 3: What am I going to do now? So we had

831
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 3: a restructure. I wanted kids. I didn't want to run

832
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: around chasing a dream, you know what I mean?

833
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 7: And so you know we did that. We took a break.

834
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 7: I think I took a break I didn't do music

835
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 7: for how long? How like ten years?

836
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 4: Man? Yeah, it was it was like ten years.

837
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 7: It was like ten years. I didn't touch music. I

838
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 7: didn't do nothing.

839
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 6: I would tell you this though, Man, I would think

840
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 6: it's the time frame too. Man, we just we came

841
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 6: out what we were doing there doing now, I would

842
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 6: say time frame wise, if you look at it, we

843
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 6: were just in the wrong time period.

844
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 4: There was social media.

845
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 6: We could have pushed so much stuff and done our

846
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 6: own podcasts and done our own you know, follow the

847
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 6: band type things.

848
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 4: Back then, there wasn't nothing but AOL messenger, you know

849
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.

850
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: We didn't have no internet back then. Man, we didn't

851
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 3: have MP three's back in.

852
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: The timing was just not right. The timing was never right.

853
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: But their attitude about it is good. They're not bitter

854
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: and there's something that I have to know. It sounds

855
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: like I already know the answer to this question. But

856
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: are you glad you took that trip out to.

857
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 4: La Yes, me and him. I would tell you could.

858
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 6: You can't pay for the experiences that we went through.

859
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 6: You can go to college and people can talk about

860
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 6: their college years. I watched some of the most Hall

861
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 6: of Fame type things in the music business.

862
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 4: Go. I met Aleah, I've hung out with her. She

863
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 4: told me, I'm want in a million. I got video

864
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 4: of it.

865
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 6: I got video with boys to men and things that

866
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 6: I probably you can't even experience, being an end of

867
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 6: the road video shoot, the all the video shoots we

868
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 6: went to, walking through these things and living. I would

869
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 6: say it was the closest thing to being famous without

870
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 6: being famous.

871
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, man, I think, I think. Man, you know, it's

872
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 7: a journey. We're all on man, even you date.

873
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. We're all on this journey.

874
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: Man.

875
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 3: You know, you get to you get.

876
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 7: To a place, you go left, you go right, there,

877
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 7: you go right and find out right it wasn't the

878
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 7: right way.

879
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: You go left again, you know what I mean. So

880
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: you know it's all life's journey, man, It's everything's meant

881
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 3: to be.

882
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 7: You know your story's gonna play out, you know, and

883
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 7: you know life's the song man.

884
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: That's what I say. Life's the song man. Look around you, man.

885
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: So I have found three of the guys from Sudden Impact.

886
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: All that are left are Noel Kine, who I have

887
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: emailed a few times and he just hasn't gone back

888
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: to me and the elusive quiet Dave Smith, the guy

889
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: who they tell me turned his back on the whole thing.

890
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: After we get off the zoom call, I decided to

891
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: take a swing with Todd and see if maybe he

892
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: has any idea how I can get a hold of

893
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: Dave Smith. Any emails right back? Yeah, man, I talked

894
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: to him last week. Here's his email, and so I

895
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: emailed Dave Smith and he gets back in thirty minutes. Yeah.

896
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: Sure, I'd love to talk. This is so much easier

897
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: than I thought it was going to be.

898
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: I also ask Alan whether who Are You is a

899
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: dis track and he says yes, but we were in

900
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: a pissed off state of mind. We grew a lot

901
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: from that lol. As to who they were dissing, I

902
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: guess I'll have to get it from Dave Distrack Smith himself,

903
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: Michael Bibvens. Though, still nothing, But I want you to

904
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: hear something Todd said as the Zoom was wrapping up,

905
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: something that is made even more poignant by the fact

906
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: that his connection is a little dodgy.

907
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 3: It's definitely not is definitely not over.

908
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: It makes me think about what Scott Gimpel said in

909
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: the first episode of this show.

910
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 6: I don't like the idea of endings because I don't

911
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 6: like thinking that it's over for anybody.

912
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: This is a show about audacity.

913
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: This is a show about taking big swings, and I'm

914
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: beginning to wonder whether these guys might be about to

915
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: take another one. We'll find out on the finale of

916
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: Waiting for Impact, a Dave Holmes passion project. This has

917
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: been an Exactly Right production. Written by me Dave Holmes,

918
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: produced by Hannah Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed

919
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: by Andrew Eapen. Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson,

920
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: Music by Ben Wise, artwork by Garrett Ross. Executive produced

921
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hard Stark and Danielle Kramer.

922
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook.

923
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: And Twitter at exactly where, and follow me at Dave Holmes.

924
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: For more information, go to exactly Rightmedia dot com.

925
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: Binge the show add free on stitch your premium for

926
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: a free month. Head to Stitcher Premium dot com, slash

927
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: Impact and enter promo code Impact.

928
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: You select a

929
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: Monthly plan, listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on

930
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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts