WEBVTT - The Moniker [4] 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.760 You're listening to the Freeway Fanom, a production of iHeartRadio, 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:08.040 Tenderfoot TV, and Black Bar METSVHAH. The views and opinions 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.600 expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.159 author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:19.880 represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, Black Bar, MITZVAH, or 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:24.120 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter that may 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.720 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.760 DC had never had a serial killing before, and so 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:36.760 it wasn't something not that you ever get used to it, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.120 but it wasn't something they were familiar with. And so 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.559 if there's a body found here, and then you know, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:43.559 a few weeks later, there's a body found here and 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.680 some months later, and they don't connect it until the 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:51.040 fourth one or so, then it sort of spirals and 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.920 people take notice and then they said, oh, Houston, we've 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.240 got a problem here. These deaths may be connected. And 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.800 I'm not sure why that is. Maybe because you know, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 there were different detectives assigned to each of the cases. 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.399 Maybe because you know, one of the bodies or so 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.600 was found across the district line in Maryland and they 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.560 didn't communicate Maryland in d C. Or again, maybe it's 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.720 because there were so many homicides in the city and 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.399 six little black girls from not the best parts of town. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.839 You know, did anyone really care outside of their families. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.440 The homicide detectives termed the cases the little girl cases. 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.360 This child was laying on the side of the road. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.000 I wouldn't go no way, I wouldn't come up my house. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.000 Those first five murders should have been a huge warning 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.000 bell for the police. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.080 We just want to know what happened. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.920 This person must have saw that. They were thinking that 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.600 maybe it's just one person, and he says, they need 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:54.840 to know. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:56.160 This is me. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:58.640 I thought that they would catch him. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.200 I thought it just a matter of time. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:11.520 I'm Celeste Hedley and this is Freeway Phantom. In the 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.400 last episode, we learned about the third and fourth victims 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.519 of the Freeway Phantom, Brenda Crockett and Nina Mosha Yates. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.080 Up until this point, these murders were largely considered by 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.800 law enforcement to be unconnected, but the murder of Yates 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:27.440 was a big turning point. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.440 She was twelve years old and she was found on 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.760 October first, nineteen seventy one. She was a seventh grader, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.200 and she was a very quiet and well behaved child. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.440 In the evening, she went to the safeway that was 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.680 a few blocks away from her home to buy a 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:45.440 bag of sugar. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.640 This is author Victoria Hester, who co wrote a book 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.600 with her father Blaine Pardo, on the Freeway Phantom Murders. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.240 She reminds us that Nina Mosha Yates walked to a 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.680 nearby safeway around seven pm one night to pick up 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.080 some groceries, and then after leaving, she was somehow abducted. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.640 She was found dead just over two hours later in 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:08.799 Prince George's County. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.280 Her body was found by a fifteen year old hitchhiker 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.760 beside Pennsylvania Avenue, just sixteen hundred feet beyond the district line. 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.480 Her body was still warm when it was found, so 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.040 she had been dumped and killed very recently. She was 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.400 literally just dumped on the side of the road. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.600 Co writer Blaine Pardo told us about the evidence gathering 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.800 process that law enforcement went through for Ninemosha. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.400 They would have looked under fingernails, et cetera, not for 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.640 DNA traceable, but to see if she had scraped her 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:50.240 victim or fought back and that was done, but you 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:55.840 don't get that tangible piece of Oh you've got somebody's skin, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.280 we can run DNA on it, etc. So while they 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.160 may have found things like that, unfortunately those things usually 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.040 wouldn't have been preserved and they didn't have the means 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.360 to preserve those things. But they said the problem was 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.320 at the time, the police always had kind of a 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:13.960 standard blanket in the back of their car for when 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.680 they found dead bodies, and they throw that blanket on them. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.880 And it's not like the blanket went off, got sterilized, 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.000 completely cleaned before it was used again. It was a 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.880 blanket that they used over and over. So the contamination 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.080 could have come from any number of sources. And I 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.599 think that's one of the complicating factors when it comes 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.120 to the DNA is how this evidence was physically handled. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.200 These guys didn't put on rubber gloves when they touched 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.800 things that you know, they just picked it up and 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.360 you're going to pick up trace DNA of everybody that's 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.159 ever touched that piece of clothing. So it's a real 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:50.800 tricky thing. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.080 But police were able to identify and preserve a few 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.960 pieces of evidence. They found what they called negroid hair 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.400 on her sanitary napkin hairs that did not belong to her. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.440 They also found green fibers, much like the ones that 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.360 had been found on previous victims. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.440 No one knew about the green synthetic fibers until Detective 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:20.480 Lloyd Davis. When Davis had requested that all the evidence 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.840 be sent to the FBI. That's when they came back 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:28.440 about the green synthetic fibers, which aren't really green if 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:29.560 you see them visually. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.120 This is retired MPD Detective Romaine Jenkins. 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.839 Now, this is what the FBI technician told me, the 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.920 guy who handled the cases. To the naked eye, they're 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.280 a different color. They're only green if you look at 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.840 them under microscott. Then what are the sources of the fibers? 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.320 That's what I wanted to know about the fiber evidence, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.280 I asked him. I said, well, you know, what's the 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.200 source of the fibers? He said he thought they came. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.680 From an auto. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:00.760 He said, but let me get my notes that I'll 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.719 get back to you. Well, it took for ages for 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.200 him to get back to me. Fine, he didn't. He said, nah, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.200 I think they came from an auto. But I talked 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.240 to Detective Lloyd Davis, who had all the evidence submitted. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.520 He said he was told that the fibers came from 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.200 a bathroom mate like a bath mat and a bathroom, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.279 and that goes along with these victims being washed and cleaned. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.000 I said, that sounds about right, You know that as 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:29.120 far as I'm concerned. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.080 We'll explore the possible sources of these fibers in a 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.760 later episode, but for now, there are two important things 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.520 to keep in mind. Technology at the time just wasn't 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.720 advanced enough to properly examine these fibers, so they were 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.640 stored away, possibly in the boxes that Romayne has stored 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:48.480 in her home. 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.800 Oh, these are glass slides, don't don't bother that. No, 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.920 I'm not gonna open them. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.360 For sure, but these are hairs and fire. These are 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:02.280 actual glass slides with the hairs and fibers. It's possible 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.320 that today we could revisit the fibers to learn more 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.080 about their origin, but the evidence would need to be 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.720 resubmitted for processing. The other significant matter, as Romaine alluded to, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.840 is that the FBI was now involved. After the murder 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.680 of Ninomosia Yates, law enforcement finally started to recognize that 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.840 these cases were connected, and that expanded the scope of 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:25.640 the investigation. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.960 The fourth body that brought more people in because where's 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.080 the body found. You're talking about PG County, right, You're 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.280 talking about crossing jurisdictional lines, So then he is PG 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:40.840 County coming into play. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.640 By the time we get to Ninomosia, people are beginning 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.600 to think this is the same perpetrator. They didn't have 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.320 a phrase of serial killer. They may be called it 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:52.520 a pattern killer. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:53.440 Ye pattern case. 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:59.040 The homicide detectives term the case is the Little Girl 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:04.360 cases because they didn't know anything about Freeway pantom. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.360 Up until this point. The FBI was only vaguely aware 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.840 of the first few murders in the Little Girl cases. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.160 I would hear them talk about the first two is 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.240 I recall the bodies were found with only about fifteen 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.480 feet of each other, and that kind of peaked their 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.600 interest what we got going on. We've never had a 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:30.440 serial murder here, but we've had multiple murders, and I thought, 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.280 there's something in here that would be interesting to get 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.280 into and see how you would how you would work 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.000 it out, how you could figure out who did it. 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.960 This is retired Special Agent Barry Culvert, one of the 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:45.040 FBI investigators who worked the case. He says that once 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.000 victims started turning up both in DC and over the 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.920 state line in PG County, the FBI officially got involved. 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.240 At the time of this case in nineteen seventy, I'd 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.080 been working fugitives and bank robberies four or five years, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.559 and that lets you know just about every corner in 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.880 their dark alley and Washington, d C. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.360 If you work those kind of cases, Colvert says, the 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.840 Freeway phantom murders felt different to him. He was struck 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.840 by the innocence and youth of the victims and felt 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.800 compelled to work their cases. 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:25.640 All of these girls were not from runaway families. These girls, 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.280 from what I can remember just hearing from the detectives, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.960 these were families that went to churchs and watched after 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.760 their girls and wanted to know where they were. They 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.720 were good families. They didn't take chances that would have 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.640 led them to that kind of death. I don't think. 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.040 I don't know that they would have taken a chance 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.240 of getting in a car with somebody that they didn't 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.679 know to get a ride home or something. I don't 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:52.320 think they would have. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.319 Colvert remembers when they got the call to join the investigation. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.400 I think the Chief of Police in Washington re down 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.120 to our agent in charge of the Washington office. They 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.840 had so many leads and so many things to cover, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.520 they just didn't have the manpower. There was a lot 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.120 of things going on in Washington then. This was only 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:15.800 two or three years after Martin Luther King and Stokely 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.200 Carmichael had killed the pigs, burned the pigs, and we 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:23.040 were pigs, so they were really shorthanded. And the fact 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.679 that it was a federal crime, we could assist the 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.520 Metropolitan Police in leads that were just over the line 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.160 in Maryland or in Virginia because we had jurisdiction on 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.120 those places. And I think the Boss came around and 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.360 he was taking agents off of various squads to see 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.040 if they wanted to work on the homicide case, this 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.960 particular case, and I immediately offered my services. I said, 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.400 I like the detectives that I worked with over there. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.880 I'll be one of the volunteers for it. And that's 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.880 how I got involved in this case. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.960 Colvert says the FBI's investigation of the Freeway phantom murders 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.839 was broad, intense, and incredibly hands on. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.720 We figured there had to be someone that got away, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.839 someone that was lured to the car, and we even 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.120 had a couple of cases where they were forced into 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.839 the car, duct taped, but they got away. So you 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.960 would take that thinking maybe that could be our guy. 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.199 There has to be someone that he's not successful with 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.640 when working those cases, because we actually had evidence and witnesses. 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.199 There was one that was dropped on the side of 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.920 the highway. It seemed like a truck driver went by 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.440 and thought he saw a white van or a white 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.200 pickup truck or something. If you had a partial tag number, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.679 you couldn't go on a computer. You had to go 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.840 through files. We got leads from psychics that were weird, 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.760 but you were almost afraid to discount any of them. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:55.200 The one good suspect that we developed, the young girl 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.640 was coming out of a drug store, I think on 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.320 Minnesota Avenue, and a white man called to her to 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.640 come to the window, and I think when she backed away, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:07.760 thinking he was just asking for information and he was 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.880 really trying to get her in the car either, he 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.079 reached out for her and she pulled back and screamed, 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.079 and other witnesses came forward and gave us a tag number, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.800 and when we identified this person, he was a contractor 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:28.760 that either built houses, apartments, main building schools in all 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.679 not only the district, but in Maryland and Virginia. If 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.360 he was working on those buildings and offices, he had 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.760 a place because I know at least two of our 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.840 victims were kept for a day or two and then bathed. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.760 He could tell he had been washed before they were 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.439 dropped on the side of the road, so we figured 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.280 that would fit. He'd have a place to take them. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.760 He was not a threatening looking person at all, so 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.920 I thought this guy looks good. They did a polygraph 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.680 exam on it him and I think he passed. I 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:00.920 thought he was a good match. 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.600 Culvert didn't provide the name of his suspect, but we 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.400 reviewed the FBI case file. He was thoroughly investigated and 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.000 cleared of suspicion, and so it was just one of 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:14.280 many dead ends. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.360 That was the kind of leads we got. Mostly they 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.679 would come in by the phone or they would give 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.520 you a nickname. We heard that bow Ray had done 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.640 something like this. He had raped the girl and got 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.080 mad at her or something, and he was afraid she 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.199 was going to go back and rat on him because 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.719 she knew him and he killed her. We didn't have 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.960 an internet to look. We had to go through hand files, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.679 these index cards. Bow Ray, Who's bow Ray out there? 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.480 Because everybody went by street name in DC, so you 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.920 never got a name. It was bou Ray or Mumpsy 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.280 Bumps or Niani or something like that. So you go 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.080 through the moniker file, you never have one. You'd have 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:53.920 six bow Rays in there. 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.320 As a result, Culvert says, their investigation became both frustrating 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:00.520 and exhausting. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.240 We had spent so many nights away from home, so 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.439 many weekends, so many holidays, out on the street, either 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.920 in a surveillance or just trying to catch somebody. If 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.880 you had a suspect, you didn't have any evidence. The 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.920 only chance you had maybe was following some night and 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.560 catch him in the act of trying to get a 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.800 little girl in the car, pull him over, charging with 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.520 a misdemeanor. Till you could get prints and hair samples 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.400 or something. That's what you were hoping for, And it 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:38.520 was labor intensive. You sat in cars with these guys 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.200 all night long and the worst weather, hoping we'd get 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.400 a line on somebody, somebody that's going to call up 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.240 here and try to do this, and we're going. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.120 To get them. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.360 At the end of the day, you thought, is there 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.000 something else we could do right now? Your shift is up, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.520 you've done your eight ten hours, and you're ready to 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.200 go home. Man, if we could swinging by that corner 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.760 one more time and look and see if we see 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.960 a white man, let's do it. Let's do it now. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.800 You were bone tired the next day, but no one 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.760 was looking at their watch, no one was looking to see, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.960 all right this time, let's cut it off. Let's go home. 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.880 There's nothing else we can do. Is there something else 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.520 we could do right now that we couldn't do tomorrow? 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.720 It's one o'clock in the morning, But sometimes that's the 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:32.000 most advantageous time to find this kind of person doing this, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.360 And sometimes it meant driving way the heck out in 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.600 PG County to just see where my friend was. At 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.960 that time, there was no doubt these guys were committed 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.560 to solving this thing, and I really thought we might. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.440 I believed it at that time. I believed it. I said, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.240 he's going to do something stupid. Somebody's going to get away, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:16:13.200 and we'll get him. 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.680 The work of retired FBI Special Agent Barry Culvert was impressive. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.000 Up until this point, it seemed like law enforcement wasn't 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:26.120 taking these cases seriously, but Culvert's team appeared to be different. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.360 He says they were dedicated to solving these murders. Culvert 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.680 and his detective Jimmy Owens interviewed dozens of people from 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.200 the community and talked to numerous family members of the victims. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.760 Culvert remembers one night when they visited a family member 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.920 to show her some evidence they'd found at a suspect's residence. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.520 We were going out to a woman's house and I 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.640 think it might have been the aunt of one of them, 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.960 and I was going to take this picture to show 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:58.560 her these items like ring, ear rings, maybe some little 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.960 trinkets that a teenage girl would have. And I remember 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:03.640 that because it was the one that made that the 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.200 hardest to get off of this case. Jimmy was on 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.760 the phone and the police cruiser and he said, you 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.199 just take it in there, and usually the police there 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.240 were the evidence custodians of these things, says you go 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.520 in and do it. So I can remember knocking on 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.639 her door and she came to the door and I 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.600 told her this is. My name is Barry, Barry covered. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.480 I'm an FBI is't and I'm trying to find who 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:31.359 killed your niece cousin. And she said come in. As 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:32.919 soon as I came in the door, she took my 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.439 arm and she led me over to the dining table 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.280 to sit down, and I said, I have this picture 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.640 if you've ever seen any of these things on that 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:48.480 she had and she put that paper down like she 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:53.040 was she was being so gentle with that picture of 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.399 those items, and she kept rushing the edges, looking and 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.520 then she'd pick it up, and then she'd away and 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.760 put it back down. And I noticed that her eyes 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.359 were tearing up when she looked at the picture. And 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.040 then she said, I don't recognize any of these. It 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.600 must be one of the other girls. Boy, that just 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.639 I didn't know what to say after that, I know, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.240 I said, well, we'll do the best we can. We're 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.960 going to try to find this person. We got up, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.600 and she held my arm all the way back to 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.119 the front door, and I turned around and stopped and 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.000 I said, just took her by the shoulder. I said, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.399 we're going to find out who did this. We are 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.840 going to find out who did this. And I gave 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.800 her a hug, and then we walked out the front 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.479 and it was hard because she just stood by that 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.040 front door, that glass door, watching me get in that car. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.040 And when I got in the car, Jimmy Owen said, hey, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.960 you know you've got lipstick on your shirt. Let me 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.840 get a get me get a clean next that. And 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.400 I said, you know, Jimmy, let's don't wipe it off 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.040 for a while. Let's leave that on here. I don't 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.600 know that I ever. I'm sure I sent the suit 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.439 to the cleaners, but I think I wanted it on 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.600 there for a while. I think I did just because 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.199 of that interview with that woman. I'd made a pledge. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.400 And from the South, we touch and hug a lot 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.760 of people, and I'm a hugger, but in this case 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.919 it was more than just a hug. It was like, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.119 this is me promising. This is more than a promise. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.560 I just want you to know I mean what I say. 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.640 We're going to find the person that did this. And 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.800 I wanted her to know that and not some perfunctory 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.840 handshake or i'll see you later. It meant more than 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:47.760 that to me. And then later, when our role stopped, 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.800 I remembered that promise to that woman and it just 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.800 kind of hard to walk away from it. That's why 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.720 this was different. I could not do this three months 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.520 six months that we did this. This was this was hard. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:04.960 This was a hard step. 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.119 Meanwhile, public perceptions about the murders were shifting. Now that 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.240 the cases had all been connected, things were changing in 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:14.879 the neighborhood. 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.760 I think, just like during the DC stipe of time 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.320 doing that when we talk about mass murders or killings, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.639 the communities started to close ranks a little more, be 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:28.600 more watchful. 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.360 This is Derek Davis who we talked to in episode two. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.520 His family has owned a barbershop in the neighborhood since 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:36.160 the sixties. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.159 People were more watchful of our youth then. Okay, they 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.360 were looking out for him. People were talking about it more. 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.000 It was more talk. For instance, what I mean when 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.240 people came to barber shop, that was that was the 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.600 discussion in the barbershop. And people were saying, well, watch out, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.639 you know, watch out and doing it this and that that. 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:58.840 Yeah, you know, we're doing this. I'm getting off. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.040 At this time, you know, people were kind of like 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:07.200 somewhat forming their own groups or own not like police school, 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.679 but something like neighborhood watches or the orange chat watches 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.400 when you said these orange hat where communities were started 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:15.040 to walk. 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:16.280 The blocks and stuff like that. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.440 So the community were kind of like somewhat policing the 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.800 sells the best way they could to stop what was happening. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:28.520 We couldn't stop what already happened for surely, and we 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:33.920 didn't necessarily see where that support was coming from. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.280 Also sitting with us was Derek's friend, Reverend Anthony Motley, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.600 and we got to talking about why it is that 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:45.160 there was practically no media coverage on this case. It's 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:51.200 astonishing to me that someone could snatch and murder young 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:55.280 black girls and now we can't even find coverage. 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.680 How come because they're black. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:06.520 Even today we had a six year old murder walking 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.520 to the store with her father and mother and they 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.800 get caught in a drive by The mother and father wounded, 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.520 two more people wounded, the little baby gets dead. The media, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.680 they show up, they do a press conference, and then 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:24.800 they go by. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.040 It's like sensationalism exactly what it is. 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.160 That's what they do. Don't do you have any what 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:39.560 they call invest investigative reporters anymore? And if they do investigate, 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.359 they don't investigate when it comes to black people, you know, 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.679 unless it's something that that that's juicy, you know, like 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.320 the government. But as far as the community is concerned, 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.040 since another day in the park. 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:02.880 This frustration was evident in community throughout the murders. Community 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.760 member Wilma Harper wrote about it in her book The 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.159