1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Freeway Fanom, a production of iHeartRadio, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:08,040 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, and Black Bar METSVHAH. The views and opinions 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 1: author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, Black Bar, MITZVAH, or 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter that may 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: DC had never had a serial killing before, and so 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't something not that you ever get used to it, 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: but it wasn't something they were familiar with. And so 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: if there's a body found here, and then you know, 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: a few weeks later, there's a body found here and 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: some months later, and they don't connect it until the 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: fourth one or so, then it sort of spirals and 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: people take notice and then they said, oh, Houston, we've 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: got a problem here. These deaths may be connected. And 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: I'm not sure why that is. Maybe because you know, 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: there were different detectives assigned to each of the cases. 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: Maybe because you know, one of the bodies or so 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: was found across the district line in Maryland and they 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: didn't communicate Maryland in d C. Or again, maybe it's 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: because there were so many homicides in the city and 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 2: six little black girls from not the best parts of town. 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 2: You know, did anyone really care outside of their families. 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 3: The homicide detectives termed the cases the little girl cases. 26 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 4: This child was laying on the side of the road. 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 5: I wouldn't go no way, I wouldn't come up my house. 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 4: Those first five murders should have been a huge warning 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 4: bell for the police. 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 5: We just want to know what happened. 31 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: This person must have saw that. They were thinking that 32 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: maybe it's just one person, and he says, they need 33 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: to know. 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 6: This is me. 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 7: I thought that they would catch him. 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 4: I thought it just a matter of time. 37 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 8: I'm Celeste Hedley and this is Freeway Phantom. In the 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 8: last episode, we learned about the third and fourth victims 39 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 8: of the Freeway Phantom, Brenda Crockett and Nina Mosha Yates. 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 8: Up until this point, these murders were largely considered by 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 8: law enforcement to be unconnected, but the murder of Yates 42 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 8: was a big turning point. 43 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 9: She was twelve years old and she was found on 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 9: October first, nineteen seventy one. She was a seventh grader, 45 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 9: and she was a very quiet and well behaved child. 46 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 9: In the evening, she went to the safeway that was 47 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 9: a few blocks away from her home to buy a 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 9: bag of sugar. 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 8: This is author Victoria Hester, who co wrote a book 50 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 8: with her father Blaine Pardo, on the Freeway Phantom Murders. 51 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 8: She reminds us that Nina Mosha Yates walked to a 52 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 8: nearby safeway around seven pm one night to pick up 53 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 8: some groceries, and then after leaving, she was somehow abducted. 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 8: She was found dead just over two hours later in 55 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 8: Prince George's County. 56 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 9: Her body was found by a fifteen year old hitchhiker 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 9: beside Pennsylvania Avenue, just sixteen hundred feet beyond the district line. 58 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 9: Her body was still warm when it was found, so 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 9: she had been dumped and killed very recently. She was 60 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 9: literally just dumped on the side of the road. 61 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 8: Co writer Blaine Pardo told us about the evidence gathering 62 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 8: process that law enforcement went through for Ninemosha. 63 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 10: They would have looked under fingernails, et cetera, not for 64 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 10: DNA traceable, but to see if she had scraped her 65 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 10: victim or fought back and that was done, but you 66 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 10: don't get that tangible piece of Oh you've got somebody's skin, 67 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 10: we can run DNA on it, etc. So while they 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 10: may have found things like that, unfortunately those things usually 69 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 10: wouldn't have been preserved and they didn't have the means 70 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 10: to preserve those things. But they said the problem was 71 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 10: at the time, the police always had kind of a 72 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 10: standard blanket in the back of their car for when 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 10: they found dead bodies, and they throw that blanket on them. 74 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 10: And it's not like the blanket went off, got sterilized, 75 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 10: completely cleaned before it was used again. It was a 76 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 10: blanket that they used over and over. So the contamination 77 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 10: could have come from any number of sources. And I 78 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 10: think that's one of the complicating factors when it comes 79 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 10: to the DNA is how this evidence was physically handled. 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 10: These guys didn't put on rubber gloves when they touched 81 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 10: things that you know, they just picked it up and 82 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 10: you're going to pick up trace DNA of everybody that's 83 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 10: ever touched that piece of clothing. So it's a real 84 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 10: tricky thing. 85 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 8: But police were able to identify and preserve a few 86 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 8: pieces of evidence. They found what they called negroid hair 87 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 8: on her sanitary napkin hairs that did not belong to her. 88 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 8: They also found green fibers, much like the ones that 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 8: had been found on previous victims. 90 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: No one knew about the green synthetic fibers until Detective 91 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: Lloyd Davis. When Davis had requested that all the evidence 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: be sent to the FBI. That's when they came back 93 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 3: about the green synthetic fibers, which aren't really green if 94 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: you see them visually. 95 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 8: This is retired MPD Detective Romaine Jenkins. 96 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 3: Now, this is what the FBI technician told me, the 97 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: guy who handled the cases. To the naked eye, they're 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 3: a different color. They're only green if you look at 99 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 3: them under microscott. Then what are the sources of the fibers? 100 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: That's what I wanted to know about the fiber evidence, 101 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 3: I asked him. I said, well, you know, what's the 102 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: source of the fibers? He said he thought they came. 103 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 5: From an auto. 104 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: He said, but let me get my notes that I'll 105 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 3: get back to you. Well, it took for ages for 106 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: him to get back to me. Fine, he didn't. He said, nah, 107 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: I think they came from an auto. But I talked 108 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: to Detective Lloyd Davis, who had all the evidence submitted. 109 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: He said he was told that the fibers came from 110 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: a bathroom mate like a bath mat and a bathroom, 111 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: and that goes along with these victims being washed and cleaned. 112 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: I said, that sounds about right, You know that as 113 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: far as I'm concerned. 114 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 8: We'll explore the possible sources of these fibers in a 115 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 8: later episode, but for now, there are two important things 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 8: to keep in mind. Technology at the time just wasn't 117 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 8: advanced enough to properly examine these fibers, so they were 118 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 8: stored away, possibly in the boxes that Romayne has stored 119 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 8: in her home. 120 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 5: Oh, these are glass slides, don't don't bother that. No, 121 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 5: I'm not gonna open them. 122 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 8: For sure, but these are hairs and fire. These are 123 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 8: actual glass slides with the hairs and fibers. It's possible 124 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 8: that today we could revisit the fibers to learn more 125 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 8: about their origin, but the evidence would need to be 126 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 8: resubmitted for processing. The other significant matter, as Romaine alluded to, 127 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 8: is that the FBI was now involved. After the murder 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 8: of Ninomosia Yates, law enforcement finally started to recognize that 129 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 8: these cases were connected, and that expanded the scope of 130 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 8: the investigation. 131 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: The fourth body that brought more people in because where's 132 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: the body found. You're talking about PG County, right, You're 133 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 3: talking about crossing jurisdictional lines, So then he is PG 134 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: County coming into play. 135 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 8: By the time we get to Ninomosia, people are beginning 136 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 8: to think this is the same perpetrator. They didn't have 137 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 8: a phrase of serial killer. They may be called it 138 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 8: a pattern killer. 139 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 5: Ye pattern case. 140 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: The homicide detectives term the case is the Little Girl 141 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: cases because they didn't know anything about Freeway pantom. 142 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 8: Up until this point. The FBI was only vaguely aware 143 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 8: of the first few murders in the Little Girl cases. 144 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 4: I would hear them talk about the first two is 145 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 4: I recall the bodies were found with only about fifteen 146 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 4: feet of each other, and that kind of peaked their 147 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 4: interest what we got going on. We've never had a 148 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 4: serial murder here, but we've had multiple murders, and I thought, 149 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 4: there's something in here that would be interesting to get 150 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 4: into and see how you would how you would work 151 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 4: it out, how you could figure out who did it. 152 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 8: This is retired Special Agent Barry Culvert, one of the 153 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 8: FBI investigators who worked the case. He says that once 154 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 8: victims started turning up both in DC and over the 155 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 8: state line in PG County, the FBI officially got involved. 156 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: At the time of this case in nineteen seventy, I'd 157 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 4: been working fugitives and bank robberies four or five years, 158 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 4: and that lets you know just about every corner in 159 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 4: their dark alley and Washington, d C. 160 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 8: If you work those kind of cases, Colvert says, the 161 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 8: Freeway phantom murders felt different to him. He was struck 162 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 8: by the innocence and youth of the victims and felt 163 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 8: compelled to work their cases. 164 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 4: All of these girls were not from runaway families. These girls, 165 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 4: from what I can remember just hearing from the detectives, 166 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 4: these were families that went to churchs and watched after 167 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 4: their girls and wanted to know where they were. They 168 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 4: were good families. They didn't take chances that would have 169 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 4: led them to that kind of death. I don't think. 170 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 4: I don't know that they would have taken a chance 171 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 4: of getting in a car with somebody that they didn't 172 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 4: know to get a ride home or something. I don't 173 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 4: think they would have. 174 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 8: Colvert remembers when they got the call to join the investigation. 175 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 4: I think the Chief of Police in Washington re down 176 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 4: to our agent in charge of the Washington office. They 177 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 4: had so many leads and so many things to cover, 178 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 4: they just didn't have the manpower. There was a lot 179 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 4: of things going on in Washington then. This was only 180 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 4: two or three years after Martin Luther King and Stokely 181 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 4: Carmichael had killed the pigs, burned the pigs, and we 182 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: were pigs, so they were really shorthanded. And the fact 183 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 4: that it was a federal crime, we could assist the 184 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 4: Metropolitan Police in leads that were just over the line 185 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 4: in Maryland or in Virginia because we had jurisdiction on 186 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 4: those places. And I think the Boss came around and 187 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 4: he was taking agents off of various squads to see 188 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 4: if they wanted to work on the homicide case, this 189 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 4: particular case, and I immediately offered my services. I said, 190 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 4: I like the detectives that I worked with over there. 191 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 4: I'll be one of the volunteers for it. And that's 192 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 4: how I got involved in this case. 193 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 8: Colvert says the FBI's investigation of the Freeway phantom murders 194 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 8: was broad, intense, and incredibly hands on. 195 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 4: We figured there had to be someone that got away, 196 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 4: someone that was lured to the car, and we even 197 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 4: had a couple of cases where they were forced into 198 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 4: the car, duct taped, but they got away. So you 199 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 4: would take that thinking maybe that could be our guy. 200 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 4: There has to be someone that he's not successful with 201 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 4: when working those cases, because we actually had evidence and witnesses. 202 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 4: There was one that was dropped on the side of 203 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 4: the highway. It seemed like a truck driver went by 204 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 4: and thought he saw a white van or a white 205 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 4: pickup truck or something. If you had a partial tag number, 206 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 4: you couldn't go on a computer. You had to go 207 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 4: through files. We got leads from psychics that were weird, 208 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 4: but you were almost afraid to discount any of them. 209 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 4: The one good suspect that we developed, the young girl 210 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 4: was coming out of a drug store, I think on 211 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 4: Minnesota Avenue, and a white man called to her to 212 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 4: come to the window, and I think when she backed away, 213 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 4: thinking he was just asking for information and he was 214 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 4: really trying to get her in the car either, he 215 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 4: reached out for her and she pulled back and screamed, 216 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 4: and other witnesses came forward and gave us a tag number, 217 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 4: and when we identified this person, he was a contractor 218 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 4: that either built houses, apartments, main building schools in all 219 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 4: not only the district, but in Maryland and Virginia. If 220 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 4: he was working on those buildings and offices, he had 221 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 4: a place because I know at least two of our 222 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: victims were kept for a day or two and then bathed. 223 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 4: He could tell he had been washed before they were 224 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 4: dropped on the side of the road, so we figured 225 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 4: that would fit. He'd have a place to take them. 226 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 4: He was not a threatening looking person at all, so 227 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 4: I thought this guy looks good. They did a polygraph 228 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 4: exam on it him and I think he passed. I 229 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 4: thought he was a good match. 230 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 8: Culvert didn't provide the name of his suspect, but we 231 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 8: reviewed the FBI case file. He was thoroughly investigated and 232 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 8: cleared of suspicion, and so it was just one of 233 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 8: many dead ends. 234 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 4: That was the kind of leads we got. Mostly they 235 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 4: would come in by the phone or they would give 236 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 4: you a nickname. We heard that bow Ray had done 237 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 4: something like this. He had raped the girl and got 238 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 4: mad at her or something, and he was afraid she 239 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 4: was going to go back and rat on him because 240 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 4: she knew him and he killed her. We didn't have 241 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 4: an internet to look. We had to go through hand files, 242 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 4: these index cards. Bow Ray, Who's bow Ray out there? 243 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 4: Because everybody went by street name in DC, so you 244 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 4: never got a name. It was bou Ray or Mumpsy 245 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 4: Bumps or Niani or something like that. So you go 246 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 4: through the moniker file, you never have one. You'd have 247 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 4: six bow Rays in there. 248 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 8: As a result, Culvert says, their investigation became both frustrating 249 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 8: and exhausting. 250 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 4: We had spent so many nights away from home, so 251 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 4: many weekends, so many holidays, out on the street, either 252 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: in a surveillance or just trying to catch somebody. If 253 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 4: you had a suspect, you didn't have any evidence. The 254 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: only chance you had maybe was following some night and 255 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 4: catch him in the act of trying to get a 256 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: little girl in the car, pull him over, charging with 257 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 4: a misdemeanor. Till you could get prints and hair samples 258 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 4: or something. That's what you were hoping for, And it 259 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 4: was labor intensive. You sat in cars with these guys 260 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: all night long and the worst weather, hoping we'd get 261 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 4: a line on somebody, somebody that's going to call up 262 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: here and try to do this, and we're going. 263 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 7: To get them. 264 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 4: At the end of the day, you thought, is there 265 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 4: something else we could do right now? Your shift is up, 266 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 4: you've done your eight ten hours, and you're ready to 267 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 4: go home. Man, if we could swinging by that corner 268 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 4: one more time and look and see if we see 269 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 4: a white man, let's do it. Let's do it now. 270 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 4: You were bone tired the next day, but no one 271 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 4: was looking at their watch, no one was looking to see, 272 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 4: all right this time, let's cut it off. Let's go home. 273 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 4: There's nothing else we can do. Is there something else 274 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 4: we could do right now that we couldn't do tomorrow? 275 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 4: It's one o'clock in the morning, But sometimes that's the 276 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 4: most advantageous time to find this kind of person doing this, 277 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 4: And sometimes it meant driving way the heck out in 278 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 4: PG County to just see where my friend was. At 279 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 4: that time, there was no doubt these guys were committed 280 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 4: to solving this thing, and I really thought we might. 281 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 4: I believed it at that time. I believed it. I said, 282 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 4: he's going to do something stupid. Somebody's going to get away, 283 00:15:53,080 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 4: and we'll get him. 284 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 8: The work of retired FBI Special Agent Barry Culvert was impressive. 285 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 8: Up until this point, it seemed like law enforcement wasn't 286 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 8: taking these cases seriously, but Culvert's team appeared to be different. 287 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 8: He says they were dedicated to solving these murders. Culvert 288 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 8: and his detective Jimmy Owens interviewed dozens of people from 289 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 8: the community and talked to numerous family members of the victims. 290 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 8: Culvert remembers one night when they visited a family member 291 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 8: to show her some evidence they'd found at a suspect's residence. 292 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 4: We were going out to a woman's house and I 293 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 4: think it might have been the aunt of one of them, 294 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 4: and I was going to take this picture to show 295 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: her these items like ring, ear rings, maybe some little 296 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 4: trinkets that a teenage girl would have. And I remember 297 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 4: that because it was the one that made that the 298 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 4: hardest to get off of this case. Jimmy was on 299 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 4: the phone and the police cruiser and he said, you 300 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 4: just take it in there, and usually the police there 301 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: were the evidence custodians of these things, says you go 302 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 4: in and do it. So I can remember knocking on 303 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 4: her door and she came to the door and I 304 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 4: told her this is. My name is Barry, Barry covered. 305 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: I'm an FBI is't and I'm trying to find who 306 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 4: killed your niece cousin. And she said come in. As 307 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 4: soon as I came in the door, she took my 308 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 4: arm and she led me over to the dining table 309 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 4: to sit down, and I said, I have this picture 310 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 4: if you've ever seen any of these things on that 311 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 4: she had and she put that paper down like she 312 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 4: was she was being so gentle with that picture of 313 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 4: those items, and she kept rushing the edges, looking and 314 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: then she'd pick it up, and then she'd away and 315 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 4: put it back down. And I noticed that her eyes 316 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 4: were tearing up when she looked at the picture. And 317 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 4: then she said, I don't recognize any of these. It 318 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 4: must be one of the other girls. Boy, that just 319 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 4: I didn't know what to say after that, I know, 320 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 4: I said, well, we'll do the best we can. We're 321 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 4: going to try to find this person. We got up, 322 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 4: and she held my arm all the way back to 323 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 4: the front door, and I turned around and stopped and 324 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 4: I said, just took her by the shoulder. I said, 325 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 4: we're going to find out who did this. We are 326 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 4: going to find out who did this. And I gave 327 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 4: her a hug, and then we walked out the front 328 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 4: and it was hard because she just stood by that 329 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: front door, that glass door, watching me get in that car. 330 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 4: And when I got in the car, Jimmy Owen said, hey, 331 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 4: you know you've got lipstick on your shirt. Let me 332 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 4: get a get me get a clean next that. And 333 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 4: I said, you know, Jimmy, let's don't wipe it off 334 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 4: for a while. Let's leave that on here. I don't 335 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: know that I ever. I'm sure I sent the suit 336 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 4: to the cleaners, but I think I wanted it on 337 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 4: there for a while. I think I did just because 338 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 4: of that interview with that woman. I'd made a pledge. 339 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 4: And from the South, we touch and hug a lot 340 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 4: of people, and I'm a hugger, but in this case 341 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 4: it was more than just a hug. It was like, 342 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 4: this is me promising. This is more than a promise. 343 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: I just want you to know I mean what I say. 344 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 4: We're going to find the person that did this. And 345 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: I wanted her to know that and not some perfunctory 346 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: handshake or i'll see you later. It meant more than 347 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: that to me. And then later, when our role stopped, 348 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 4: I remembered that promise to that woman and it just 349 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 4: kind of hard to walk away from it. That's why 350 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: this was different. I could not do this three months 351 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 4: six months that we did this. This was this was hard. 352 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 4: This was a hard step. 353 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 8: Meanwhile, public perceptions about the murders were shifting. Now that 354 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 8: the cases had all been connected, things were changing in 355 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 8: the neighborhood. 356 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 11: I think, just like during the DC stipe of time 357 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 11: doing that when we talk about mass murders or killings, 358 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 11: the communities started to close ranks a little more, be 359 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 11: more watchful. 360 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 8: This is Derek Davis who we talked to in episode two. 361 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 8: His family has owned a barbershop in the neighborhood since 362 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 8: the sixties. 363 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 11: People were more watchful of our youth then. Okay, they 364 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 11: were looking out for him. People were talking about it more. 365 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 11: It was more talk. For instance, what I mean when 366 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 11: people came to barber shop, that was that was the 367 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 11: discussion in the barbershop. And people were saying, well, watch out, 368 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 11: you know, watch out and doing it this and that that. 369 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we're doing this. I'm getting off. 370 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 11: At this time, you know, people were kind of like 371 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 11: somewhat forming their own groups or own not like police school, 372 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 11: but something like neighborhood watches or the orange chat watches 373 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 11: when you said these orange hat where communities were started 374 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 11: to walk. 375 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 5: The blocks and stuff like that. 376 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 11: So the community were kind of like somewhat policing the 377 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 11: sells the best way they could to stop what was happening. 378 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 11: We couldn't stop what already happened for surely, and we 379 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 11: didn't necessarily see where that support was coming from. 380 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 8: Also sitting with us was Derek's friend, Reverend Anthony Motley, 381 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 8: and we got to talking about why it is that 382 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 8: there was practically no media coverage on this case. It's 383 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 8: astonishing to me that someone could snatch and murder young 384 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 8: black girls and now we can't even find coverage. 385 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 5: How come because they're black. 386 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 12: Even today we had a six year old murder walking 387 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 12: to the store with her father and mother and they 388 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 12: get caught in a drive by The mother and father wounded, 389 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 12: two more people wounded, the little baby gets dead. The media, 390 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 12: they show up, they do a press conference, and then 391 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 12: they go by. 392 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 5: It's like sensationalism exactly what it is. 393 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 12: That's what they do. Don't do you have any what 394 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 12: they call invest investigative reporters anymore? And if they do investigate, 395 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 12: they don't investigate when it comes to black people, you know, 396 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 12: unless it's something that that that's juicy, you know, like 397 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 12: the government. But as far as the community is concerned, 398 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 12: since another day in the park. 399 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 8: This frustration was evident in community throughout the murders. Community 400 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 8: member Wilma Harper wrote about it in her book The 401 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 8: Mystery of the Freeway Phantom. 402 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 13: The bizarre murders of these black girls had not aroused 403 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 13: the press to an acceptable degree. The communities seemed to 404 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 13: have forgotten. Families of the victims bore their sorrow alone 405 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 13: in hopelessness and terror. 406 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 8: Harper writes that at one point, members of the Congress 407 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 8: Heights neighborhood took it upon themselves to hold a press conference. 408 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 8: They wanted to protest what they called poor police protection 409 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 8: and a lack of media coverage. 410 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 13: The press conference was called by Calvin Rolark, editor publisher 411 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 13: of the Weekly Washington Informer and president of the Washington 412 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 13: Highland Civic Association. He accused the police and news media 413 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 13: of failing to give equal attention to crimes in the Southeast. 414 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 13: He condemned newspapers for bearing news of the deaths of 415 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 13: the three girls. If it was a blue eyed, white 416 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 13: girl from Silver Spring, her picture would have been all 417 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 13: over page one. About seventy five persons attended the press 418 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 13: conference at one zero five eight Waller Place, Southeast. 419 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 8: Harper remembers that just before Ninomosia Gates was murdered, the 420 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 8: media went entirely dark on the case. 421 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 13: During the months of August and September, the news media 422 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 13: made no reports of the progress in the investigation of 423 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 13: the murders. I was recuperating from an automobile accident and 424 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 13: was free to diligently watch for information. My interest in 425 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 13: the cases had been heightened because I knew family members 426 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 13: of two of the victims. I was also in accord 427 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 13: with the earlier interest taken by citizens of the Southeast 428 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 13: community to protect their children from such crimes. The lull 429 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 13: ended on October second, nineteen seventy one, not with the 430 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 13: announcement of a solution, but with the headline of yet 431 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 13: another black girl's murder. 432 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: If you'd look through news releases and police departments, I mean, 433 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: you're not gonna find a whole lot of photos from 434 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: fifty years ago. 435 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 8: This is NPR investigative correspondent Cheryl Thompson who we heard 436 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 8: from at the top of the episode. When she thoroughly 437 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 8: investigated this case in twenty eighteen, she says it was 438 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 8: difficult to find any substantial news coverage. 439 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: Initially at some of the microfish I looked at, it 440 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 2: was lobbed in with you know, like, Okay, a girl's 441 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 2: body was found here, and then you know, some guy 442 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: found across town. You know, it was just sort of 443 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: like in passing. So there was coverage, but again then 444 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: it just sort of faded. You know, in the early seventies, 445 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 2: Vietnam was all the daily, NonStop coverage, right every single day, 446 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 2: day in and day out. And you had these May 447 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: Day protesters, thousands of them on the nation's capitol, and 448 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: so that was the coverage. I mean, you know, Detective 449 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: Jenkins will tell you that even at the time when 450 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 2: they found the first body, that they were going to 451 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: the scene, the supervisor pulled them office said no, no, 452 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: I need for you to go down down to the 453 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: mall and deal with the protesters. And murder always took 454 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: homicide always took precedence, but not in this instance, So 455 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: I think that was probably part of it. 456 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 8: However, there was one major piece of news coverage following 457 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 8: the murder of Ninamoshi Gates, the Daily News published an 458 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 8: article about the now connected murders and they named the 459 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 8: killer the Freeway Phantom. We haven't been able to find 460 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 8: this news clipping. There are some conflicting reports as to 461 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 8: the exact date of this article, but we know it 462 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 8: came before the killer's next victim was found. But they 463 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 8: still didn't refer to the Freeway Phantom as a serial killer, 464 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 8: and Romaine Jenkins explains why. 465 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: Well, at the time, the term serial killers was not 466 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: even in existence. The FBI didn't even have its profiling unit. 467 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: So if we had a pat and of cases, we 468 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: call them pattern cases. 469 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 5: The reason you. 470 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 3: Said pattern because there was something about the cases that 471 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 3: linked them together. Either the suspect wore the same clothing 472 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 3: or said the same thing in these instances. They weren't 473 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 3: sure that it was the same person. It was hard 474 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 3: for them to believe that one person could have committed 475 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 3: all of these crimes. So a lot of times you 476 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: had investigators going off in their own direction, you know, 477 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: looking for suspects you know that they felt might fit 478 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 3: the profile of the person. 479 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 8: They might not have had a name for it at 480 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 8: the time, but the Freeway Phantom was likely Washington, DC's 481 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 8: first serial killer. 482 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 6: Let me just say, I really hate the way that 483 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 6: we give these killers these names. I know we have 484 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 6: to do it like you know, just that's what it is. 485 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 6: But I think that naming them, giving them this quasi 486 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 6: mythological status, just elevates them. And these are despicable human beings, 487 00:27:59,000 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 6: you know. 488 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 8: Doctor Jean Murley is an author and professor of English 489 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 8: at Queensborough Community College. She specializes in true crime and 490 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 8: has studied the history and psychology of serial killers. To 491 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 8: get a clear picture of the Freeway Phantom, we need 492 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 8: to understand what a serial killer is. So I sat 493 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 8: down with doctor Murley and asked her to fill in 494 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 8: some missing pieces on that front. 495 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 6: The standard definition of serial killing for a long time 496 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 6: was three or more victims with a kind of. 497 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 5: A cooling off period between each. 498 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 6: That's been revised, right, That's been changed to two victims 499 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 6: at two different times for any reason. 500 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 8: What were these killers called before we I mean, we 501 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 8: clearly had serial killers before the nineteen seventies, right, I mean, 502 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 8: if nothing else, everybody knows about Jack the Ripper. But 503 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 8: what were they called? What did we how did we 504 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 8: or law enforcement make sense of them. 505 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 6: Before we had this language to comprehend and to articulate 506 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 6: this phenomenon, we use a more gothic terminology of the monstrous. Right, 507 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 6: these people were monsters. They were wicked, evil, demonic even 508 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 6: And so you're moving from a more emotional rhetoric into 509 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 6: one that's more scientific and objective in a way. 510 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 8: Can I put to you some of the most common 511 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 8: myths about serial killers and have you respond to each one? 512 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 8: The first one, I think, shows like Criminal Minds makes 513 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 8: us think that there are way more serial killers than 514 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 8: there are. I mean, they have someone to catch every week, 515 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 8: and the FBI says, I mean every murder is awful, 516 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 8: but no more than one percent of all murders were 517 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 8: committed by a serial killer. Why do we think they're 518 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 8: so ubiquitous? Is it only the true crime shows. 519 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 6: It's not true that the country is sort of crawling 520 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 6: with serial killers. It never really was true. What is 521 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 6: true is that serial killing as a phenomenon goes through 522 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 6: waves and troughs, right, and so in the post war period, 523 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 6: right in the nineteen fifties to the nineteen nineties, there 524 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 6: was a very large uptick in the number. 525 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 5: Of serial killers who were. 526 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 6: Apprehended who were active and apprehended. In nineteen fifty, there 527 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 6: were seventy two known serial killers in the country. Nineteen 528 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 6: sixty there were two hundred and seventeen, nineteen seventy wow, 529 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 6: six hundred eighty, seven hundred and sixty eight, nineteen ninety 530 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 6: six sixty nine, two thousand and three, seventy one, twenty ten, 531 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 6: which is the latest statistic, one hundred and seventeen. 532 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 8: So next myth serial killers are almost all white men. 533 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 6: That's a good one too, and similar to the ways 534 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 6: that the numbers of killers sort of peaks and troughs, 535 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 6: race and serial killing is a very interesting thing. Early on, 536 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 6: there were more white men than any other race. It 537 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 6: was about sixty percent white men, thirty or thirty five 538 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 6: percent black men, the rest Hispanic Asian Native Americans, very 539 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 6: very very small numbers that started to become more even 540 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 6: more fifty to fifty as the seventies, eighties, and nineties 541 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 6: rolled on. And that's a very interesting thing that you know, 542 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 6: it is true that serial killers do tend to victimize 543 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 6: members of their own race, but the fact is that 544 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 6: the racial categories of black and white seemed to become 545 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 6: more even as the decades were on. 546 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 8: What about the myth that serial killers are isolated dysfunctional, Well. 547 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 6: That isn't actually, I wouldn't say on myth. I would 548 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 6: say that's pretty true. We're talking about people who are psychopathic, 549 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 6: and that means they have trouble with long term relationships 550 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 6: of any type. They have trouble keeping jobs, they have 551 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 6: trouble fitting in antisocial personality disorder. They tend to also 552 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 6: commit a range of sort of lesser crimes and so 553 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 6: interactions with the system, whether it's misdemeanors or smaller felonies. 554 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 6: These are not people who you know, generally, you would 555 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 6: want to be friends with and have. 556 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 5: A lot of friends. 557 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 6: They are people who are. 558 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 5: Just like, oh, you know, that guy's weird. I don't 559 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 5: want to you know. 560 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 6: The charming, charismatic, seemingly normal guys are the outliers, right, 561 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 6: And that's what true crime has fed us, and that's 562 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 6: what a lot of the movies and fiction television feeds us. 563 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 6: So I would say that the majority of serial killers 564 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 6: are not people who are successful human beings. 565 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 8: The term serial killer wouldn't come around until the late seventies, 566 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 8: but the killer took notice of the attention that this 567 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 8: new Moniker Freeway Phantom gave him. Not long after Ninomosia 568 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 8: Yates he would attack again, and this time emboldened. 569 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 5: I grew up. As I said in Washington, d C. 570 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 5: I wasn't far from the freeway to ninety five. And 571 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 5: when I was in elementary school, Harris Elementary School, one 572 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 5: of the victims was in the class with my sister 573 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 5: in the fifth grade, and I remember in the school 574 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 5: they announced it and we would devastate. My sister was crushed. 575 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 5: It was just a really scary time. And I remember 576 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 5: my mom. You know, she was from the South, so 577 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 5: you know, she wasn't playing anyway, but it just heightened 578 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 5: the fear. 579 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 8: This is Rita McCoy who we heard from an episode two. 580 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 8: She's now a retired detective from the Metropolitan Police Department. 581 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 8: But she went to school with Nenomoshia Gates and remembers 582 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 8: when she was murdered. 583 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 5: So when that happened with her, I think I was 584 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 5: about eleven or twelve. When I was in junior high school. 585 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 5: There was an incident. It was about four thirty in 586 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 5: the afternoon, and I'm you know, I'm a teenage girl, 587 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 5: and I had another little kid in my neighborhood. We 588 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 5: were going to get some can d and stuff for 589 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 5: her and just hanging out after school. And we were 590 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 5: walking up this hill off of Benning Road, just walking along, laughing. 591 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 5: It was a beautiful day. And all of a sudden 592 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 5: I saw this white Cadillac were on the sidewalk and 593 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 5: it pulled up and like it was parking, and all 594 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 5: of a sudden, the guy he comes out of the 595 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 5: driver's side and he comes around the front of the 596 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 5: car and snatches me, and he's not saying anything, and 597 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 5: he grabbed my arm and he's holding me and he's 598 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 5: pulling open his passenger door. And I'm looking at this 599 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 5: guy and there's no emotion on his face none, And 600 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 5: I'm like, you know, screaming and hollering, and the little 601 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 5: girl is hollering. Her name is Wanda, and I'm trying 602 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 5: to grab stuff. I grabbed a piece of brick off 603 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 5: the ground and hit him, and nothing deterred him, and 604 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 5: he just was strong, and I was kicking and fighting, 605 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 5: and I was almost in the car, and people were 606 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 5: driving up and down the road broad daylight. So all 607 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 5: of a sudden, coming down the hill, that good old God, 608 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 5: there were some friends of my older brother named Roosevelt 609 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 5: and his friends were coming down the hill and they said, 610 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 5: isn't that Rose sister, And I mean for them to 611 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 5: even see me over his car, it blows me away. 612 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 5: But they saw guests coming down the hill. They could 613 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 5: see it, and they say, hey. They screamed to the 614 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 5: guy because it was warm out and the windows were down, 615 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 5: and the guy dropped me and I fell to the 616 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 5: ground and I'm telling you, almost slammed the door on 617 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 5: my leg. And I jumped up, you know, because I 618 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 5: just was so scared. And he closed the door and 619 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 5: jumped in the car and drove off. So the guys 620 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 5: flagged down the police officer. I don't know what they 621 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 5: said to the police. They were older than me. They 622 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 5: had to be like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, whatever, and so 623 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 5: they told the police what they saw and everything, and 624 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 5: the police officer let him go because the police officer 625 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 5: wanted to see if he can catch the guy. So 626 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 5: we got in the car police car. Next thing I know, 627 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 5: the police officer, I guess he got a radio call 628 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 5: or something, because I gave him the description of car 629 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 5: and everything, and they found him instill on Benning rude. 630 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 5: So we just went down to where he was and 631 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 5: there was another officer already talking to him. And this 632 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 5: officer got out and he said, you stay in the car. 633 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 5: Next thing I know, I see him cuff him and 634 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 5: put him in a police call and then took me 635 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 5: also to the station with my mom came and got me. 636 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 5: I don't know what they did with him. I know 637 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 5: they took him that day, but I don't know what 638 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 5: happened as a result, because I never was called, so 639 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 5: I don't know what they did or whatever. But when 640 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 5: we were talking about this case, when I was talking 641 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 5: with others about it years later, as matter of fact, 642 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 5: I mean we're talking about maybe a couple of years ago, 643 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 5: it hit me. Could this have been the freeway phantom. 644 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 5: I don't know. It made me wonder because this guy 645 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 5: was very fierce and he was very determined, and I 646 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 5: mean it was no conversation, just snatching off the street. 647 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 5: And when you look at those cases, that's what happened 648 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 5: in each one of those cases, they were just snatched 649 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 5: off the street. So it's just something to ponder. Thank 650 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 5: god it was saved from that. 651 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 8: It's unclear if the man who tried to abduct Rita 652 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 8: was the Freeway Phantom, but it's very possible she was 653 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 8: the exact demographic that the phantom was targeting, black, young 654 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 8: and petite. She was also on Bending Road that's the 655 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 8: same road that nine Moosha was snatched off of. And 656 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 8: there was one other strange similarity. 657 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 5: Back then, they had this in school. It was one 658 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 5: piece like shorts that we used for our gym class 659 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 5: and it was like a one piece jumper but the 660 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 5: shorts and I had that on and you know, it 661 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 5: wasn't provocative or anything, you know. 662 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 13: So you were in the gym outfit, which is one 663 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 13: of the other girls. 664 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 5: Was in as well. Did you know that? 665 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 11: No? 666 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 5: I didn't. I did not know that. Are you kidding me? 667 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 5: I never knew that. Well, you know, it was issued 668 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 5: and I could see myself in it actually because there 669 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 5: were different colors and minds was the part the top 670 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 5: part is as pin stripe and it was in the 671 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 5: pants were like gold. 672 00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 4: You know. 673 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 5: The thing is, I don't know that I've award again. 674 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 8: As it turns out, Rita had worn DC Public School 675 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 8: issue jim shorts, the same shorts that Carol Spinx had 676 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 8: on when she was killed. The coincidences in Rita's case 677 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 8: are just too many to ignore. And so if this 678 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 8: man she's describing was in fact the killer, we thought 679 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 8: we should learn a little bit more about who he was. 680 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 5: He was dark skinned. He wasn't very tall. I'd say 681 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 5: it was probably about between maybe five eight five nine. 682 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 5: He was strong, very strong. He looked like he could 683 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 5: have been either in his late thirties or early forties, 684 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 5: mid forties. He had like cyburns. He was kind of scruffy. 685 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 5: He wasn't dirty, but like you know, wasn't neat. But 686 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 5: he had facial hair, not a beard, but he had cydeburns, 687 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 5: and he had a mustache and it was dark. He 688 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 5: wasn't like he had no gut or anything. He was 689 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 5: pretty fit. I wouldn't even doubt that he could have 690 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 5: been military or some type of job at that age 691 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 5: to keep you know, in pretty good shape. You know, 692 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 5: now with my police skills, I can really break it 693 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 5: down a little bit. I really believe I was being stalked. 694 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 5: The whole thing was I wonder how long he was stalking, 695 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 5: because when he pulled up, he pulled up farther enough 696 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 5: so that he was literally by the time he got out, 697 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 5: it was like pre playing. By the time he got 698 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 5: out of his car, he met me. You see, as 699 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 5: I was walking. 700 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 8: We asked to reader how this event impacted her life. 701 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 5: It was mostly mental. I was definitely fearful after that. 702 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 5: I don't remember ever walking up there again that way 703 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 5: ever again, you know, I remember even after that years later, 704 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 5: driving you know, and I never talked about it. I 705 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 5: mean even within my family, we didn't talk about it. 706 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 5: And the girl Wanda, she lived next door, and we 707 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 5: were recently talking about it because we're still friends, and 708 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 5: she said, oh yeah, she said it was terrifying. And 709 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 5: I never really talked to her even about her perspective 710 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 5: because it had to traumatize her because she was younger 711 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 5: than me, about about three or four years. But they 712 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 5: didn't go after her. 713 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 8: Rita says that afterwards she was expecting to learn more 714 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,399 Speaker 8: about the man or what happened, but she never heard 715 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 8: anything else about the incident. 716 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 5: After that day. I was never called. There was never 717 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 5: anything after that. I don't know what happened to that guy. 718 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 5: The only thing I had learned was it was his birthday. 719 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 5: I don't know his name or anything like that, but 720 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 5: it was his birthday, which really creaked me out a lot. 721 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 5: What was his plans? 722 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 8: Rita could have been the fifth victim of the Freeway Phantom, 723 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 8: if there was any connection at all. Either way, she 724 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 8: was lucky, but not everyone was so lucky. Soon another 725 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 8: girl would go missing. Just a little over a month 726 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 8: after Nina Moosi Yates was murdered, eighteen year old Brenda 727 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 8: Woodard was found dead and in her coat pocket police 728 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 8: found a handwritten letter, the first communication from the killer. 729 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 7: I hund hand him out to my own sons and 730 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 7: him and two people of not howing women. I one 731 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 7: met the other when you catch me and canna how 732 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 7: freeway Haando. 733 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 8: Next time on Freeway Phantom. When I got home today, 734 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 8: my wife was crying. She said she got off from 735 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 8: work and she couldn't catch the bus because of all 736 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 8: the police tape. 737 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 3: We live basically in the same neighborhood, I mean the 738 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 3: same type of apartments, the same people, and I used 739 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 3: to hang out where she lived. I had friends up there. 740 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 10: She had been strangled, and what was different with her 741 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 10: is she had also been stabbed. So I've liked previous victims. 742 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 10: She put up a serious struggle with her as Sam. 743 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,919 Speaker 9: And it makes you wonder too, did she fight back 744 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 9: because she basically wrote her own killer's note. 745 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 5: Here he is. He's taunting the police. 746 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 4: He knows enough to know not to write the note 747 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 4: himself because he could potentially be connected to it. 748 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: Freeway Fantom is a production of iHeart Radio, Tenderfoot TV 749 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: and Black bar Mitzvah. Our host is CELESE. 750 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 5: Hiley. 751 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: The show is written by Trevor Young, Jamie Albright and 752 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: Celes Hiley. Executive producers on behalf of Our Heart Radio 753 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: include Matt Frederick and Alexilliams, with supervising producer Trevor Young. 754 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: Executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright 755 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: and Payne Lindsay, with producers Jamie Albright and Tracy Kaplan. 756 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: Executive producers on behalf of Black bar Mitzvah include myself, 757 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: Jay Ellis and Aaron Bergman, with producer Sidney Fools. Lead 758 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,839 Speaker 1: researcher is Jamie Albright. Artwork by Mister Soul two one six, 759 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: original music by Makeup and Vanity Set special thanks to 760 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: a teammate, Uta Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. 761 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV and iHeartMedia, as well as Black bar Mitzvah 762 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: have increased the reward for information leading to the arrest 763 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: and conviction of the person or persons responsible for their 764 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: Freeway Fan of murders. The previous reward of up to 765 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,359 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars offered by the Metropolitan 766 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: Police Department has been matched. A new total reward of 767 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 1: up to three hundred thousand dollars is now being offered. 768 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: If you have any information relating to these unsolved crimes, 769 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: contact the Metropolitan Police Department at area code two zero 770 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: two seven two seven nine zero ninety nine. For more information, 771 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: please visit freeway dashfanom dot com. For more podcasts from 772 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 773 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.