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Speaker 1: What is the media's role when UFC Walterwaite, Munir Leazez

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Speaker 1: praises Daniel Kinahan in a broadcast on ESPN after he

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Speaker 1: won a UFC fight and praises Kenahan for support, friendship,

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Speaker 1: a few other generalities. What would be the media's role there?

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Speaker 1: Should they do nothing, should they go crazy? What should

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Speaker 1: it be? This was going to be the odds and

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Speaker 1: ms on Regular Morning Combat. I'm Luke Thomas, I'm one

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Speaker 1: half of Morning Combat. Brian Campbell, of course, is the

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Speaker 1: other half. I decided to make a bit of a

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Speaker 1: separate video for it so that we could delve into

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Speaker 1: it a little bit more and have a bit of

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Speaker 1: a more forthright and I hope productive conversation, because there

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Speaker 1: is a big gap I have seen between what the

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Speaker 1: media sees is his responsibility and what a lot of

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Speaker 1: other folks in MMA sees as the media's responsibility. And

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot of alignment on this particular story,

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Speaker 1: which is somewhat surprising, but it is at least worth considering. Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into all the details of

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Speaker 1: the story. If you would like to know more about

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Speaker 1: Daniel Kinahan, I'll put a couple of links to the

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Speaker 1: story below, but you can simply google him, say with

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Speaker 1: Munir Lazz who has had a good career up to

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Speaker 1: this point, but this is the first time he's been

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Speaker 1: involved in something like this. Leads in a very global

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Speaker 1: and straightforward kind of way, but the basic idea would

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Speaker 1: be as follows. Kinahan is believed to be basically an

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Speaker 1: Irish mobster, certainly an Irish national living in Dubai. Just

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Speaker 1: last week, the US government announced that they were offering

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Speaker 1: a five million dollar reward for anything that led to

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Speaker 1: his arrest or capture or disruption of a group that

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Speaker 1: they say he is the head of the Kinahan Organized

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Speaker 1: Crime Group or KOCG. Now. Kinahan is also have long

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Speaker 1: time believed to have been involved in an organization called

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Speaker 1: MTK which does a lot of shows. It's a promotional company.

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Speaker 1: They signed fighters as well. There are a couple I

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Speaker 1: actually several UFC fighters on the roster with them. A

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Speaker 1: lot of special boxers as well, Darren Till most notably

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Speaker 1: in UFC, as well as Tyson Fury over in the

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Speaker 1: boxing side of things, but there are many others as well.

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Speaker 1: But this story doesn't really pertain to that. It's not

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Speaker 1: so much about that, although there are some other related parts,

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Speaker 1: but just for this story and this video, I just

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Speaker 1: want to focus on what the media's role is here

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Speaker 1: and whether or not the conduct you saw in their

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Speaker 1: coverage of it, including Alan Dawson and some other folks,

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Speaker 1: whether or not that was appropriate. Now, let me actually

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Speaker 1: first start with a bit of an olive leaf. Every

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Speaker 1: time the media does something in MMA that is sort

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Speaker 1: of seen as controversial outside its purview, not what it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be doing, it's not like those criticisms are

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Speaker 1: utterly baseless. I'm want to be very clear about this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not here to disparage my colleagues, because I think

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Speaker 1: in many cases they are doing the best job that

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Speaker 1: they can, and certainly they're often most times just setting

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Speaker 1: out to do the job they were charged to do.

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Speaker 1: But it's not also to say that there aren't meaningful, fair,

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Speaker 1: real criticisms of MMA media coverage dove that at times,

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Speaker 1: and certainly I've been guilty of some of this along

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Speaker 1: the way. There's been too much where a conversation is

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Speaker 1: about one thing that is strictly not political, and there's

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Speaker 1: been political infusion as a result. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: real uh genuine claim you could make. I was having

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Speaker 1: a discussion on Twitter with Kareem Sadan, who you know,

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Speaker 1: does the probably the most thankless job real journalism in MMA,

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Speaker 1: and he and I were sort of going back and

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Speaker 1: forth about our theories about why MMA media is the

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Speaker 1: way that it is, and in terms of just not

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Speaker 1: really being a very significant arm of actual news and

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Speaker 1: looking into things used to be a little bit better,

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Speaker 1: but even then has never really been all that great.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to borrow a couple of his reasons,

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Speaker 1: a couple of his, and then I'll introduce one of mine,

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Speaker 1: but they would basically be one. UFC policies have basically

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Speaker 1: put pressure on journalists and their outlets to cater the

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Speaker 1: kind of coverage that they do, and it's been a

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Speaker 1: long shadow that they have cast. I think I have

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Speaker 1: personally never really suffered from this, I want to be

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Speaker 1: very clear about it. But there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who have, so it's a it's a legitimate thing to

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Speaker 1: worry about. Number Two, I would say simply, a lot

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Speaker 1: of media have acted in a way where they have

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Speaker 1: sent the wrong impression about what they do to viewers

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Speaker 1: or readers, and so they get a distorted view of

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Speaker 1: what the job is. It is why I assiduously do

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Speaker 1: not call myself a journalist anymore. Sometimes I get labeled

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Speaker 1: that way, but I really don't believe that I am,

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Speaker 1: and I take that label away because I think if

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Speaker 1: you're going to call yourself that, you have to do

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Speaker 1: a very specific kind of work, and it's just not

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Speaker 1: what I do. I think any person can take on

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Speaker 1: a journalistic act. If you're at an event and you

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Speaker 1: pull out your phone and you're filming it and you

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Speaker 1: talk to someone on the scene, that's journalism by any

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Speaker 1: other measurement. That's what that is. So anyone is capable

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Speaker 1: of it. But I think if you're going to give

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Speaker 1: yourself a title, you have to have a certain guardrails

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Speaker 1: around what you do. And you know, budding up to

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Speaker 1: fighters and just going to press conferences and asking questions

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Speaker 1: and whether the fans boo or cheer, that's got nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the job. So that's the other part.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's been a lot of surrender to

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Speaker 1: their real responsibilities and a mislabeling of a lot of folks.

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Speaker 1: But the third thing I would say is, and this

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Speaker 1: is where I would really give the MMA media a break.

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Speaker 1: A lot of folks don't understand this. Most of the

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Speaker 1: places that hire most of the people you see, are

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Speaker 1: not at all interested in MMA journalism. They're not interested

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Speaker 1: in I mean a little bit. They're interested in the

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Speaker 1: ad rev and then the clicks, and that typically comes

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Speaker 1: not exclusively, but often through access. And so I understand

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Speaker 1: that these companies are not putting these guys in a

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Speaker 1: position to make a lot of waves. When I say

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Speaker 1: not make a lot of waves, way more than the

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Speaker 1: critics of the media in this story whatever expect, but

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Speaker 1: certainly not you know, sixty Minutes or Frontline or whatever

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Speaker 1: whatever news magazine show you want to talk about. They're

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Speaker 1: not set out to do that kind of thing in general,

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Speaker 1: and so the corporations are not really empowering them. The

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Speaker 1: major dominant organization in the sport is at least has

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Speaker 1: historically historically made things difficult. And then you know, there

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Speaker 1: is some individual responsibility to bear. So if you want

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Speaker 1: to say, well, I've got a lot of issues with

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Speaker 1: MMA media and I've lost a lot of trust in them,

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Speaker 1: believe me, I understand that. Believe me, I get it.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is totally fair, and

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Speaker 1: so that's going to color this entire discussion. I A

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Speaker 1: person B person does not like the MMA media or

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Speaker 1: does not trust them or whatever for any number of

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Speaker 1: reasons that could be quite legitimate over the years, and

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Speaker 1: now they have got such a negative reaction that there's

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Speaker 1: really no middle ground possible. I don't know what to

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Speaker 1: do in cases like that, but if you are at

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Speaker 1: least amenable to argument, I would like to make you one.

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Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. I want to give

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Speaker 1: you an argument, and you can like the argument, you

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Speaker 1: can hate it. You can say it's good or you

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Speaker 1: can say it's bad. But that's all that I really

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Speaker 1: want to do with here, which is why I started

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Speaker 1: with the question, what is the media's role as it

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Speaker 1: relates to covering an athlete at an event like this

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Speaker 1: who says something in the way that he said? And

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Speaker 1: the answer is, there's a few different ways you could

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Speaker 1: do it, depending on what you do. But asking more broadly,

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Speaker 1: you know what should the media do? Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what a cameraman should do, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: what a sound guy should do, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the social media person should do necessarily without some

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Speaker 1: direction for the editor. But let's speak from the editor's

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Speaker 1: position here. Let's speak from the guy who is expected

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Speaker 1: to have some news judgment. I'll raise my hand here

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Speaker 1: and said I was an editor of two of the

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Speaker 1: most prominent websites in all of MMA. I was editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of Bloody Eelbow when I was a deputy

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Speaker 1: editor at MMA Fighting. I also had radio shows, national

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Speaker 1: and local. Obviously, I have the gigs that I have now.

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Speaker 1: I had a television gig before, and now I have

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Speaker 1: this sort of like digital one with Showtime and CBS Sports. Like.

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot in the business, and I've talked

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Speaker 1: to a lot of editors. I've talked to a lot

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Speaker 1: of program directors. I've talked to a lot of producers

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Speaker 1: about what counts as newsworthiness, Ladies and gentlemen, This story

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Speaker 1: of a UFC fighter praising a guy who the US

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Speaker 1: government has just labeled as a basically a crime boss

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Speaker 1: is in every way a newsworthy story. Like what makes

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Speaker 1: for newsworthiness? You can look this up on your own.

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Speaker 1: By all it means, please do not take my word

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Speaker 1: for it. And there's always a few factors that go

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Speaker 1: into it. It's never a hard and fast kind of

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Speaker 1: set of rules, But there are some guidelines. One timeliness

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Speaker 1: like when did this story happen? If it's recent, that

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Speaker 1: would be better, but not always, But certainly you can

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Speaker 1: imagine that getting to the bottom of recent events would

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Speaker 1: be important. You know, proximity. Did this happen to people

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Speaker 1: that we know? Did? How many people far away? In

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Speaker 1: this case, it was on TV on ESPN in the

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Speaker 1: most dominant MMA organization talking about a guy that the

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Speaker 1: US government just named as a crime boss Like this

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Speaker 1: says direct proximity in every way you could talk about

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Speaker 1: the impact that the story might have. That's the way

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Speaker 1: some people go. How many people does it involve? Rise

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Speaker 1: As a story about one person, that doesn't make it

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Speaker 1: not worthy than this. But let's say you had this

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Speaker 1: is a common example, Let's say you had a plane crash,

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Speaker 1: right and one hundred people were killed or something. That

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Speaker 1: would make the story even of greater significance. So how

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Speaker 1: many people are affected? Now, certainly you have the individuals

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Speaker 1: I've just mentioned, But if we're talking about someone who

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Speaker 1: is alleged to have done crimes and then they have

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Speaker 1: those crimes, him being normalized inside of a sport would

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Speaker 1: have massive effects for any of the potential victims, or

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Speaker 1: more broadly, these other entities. So you're involving a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that are actually not just big in number,

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Speaker 1: although they could be big in number two, but highly

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Speaker 1: important ones as well. Right, we're involving now Disney and

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Speaker 1: ESPN and UFC and a lot of other figures. So

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Speaker 1: you have a lot of prominent figures as well, and

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Speaker 1: you can go on down the list of a few

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Speaker 1: other things that folks look to in a story like this.

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Speaker 1: It meets every guideline. Let me explain them to you.

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Speaker 1: If I was an editor and I had sent someone

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Speaker 1: to go cover events and they were not a cameraman

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Speaker 1: or you know, something else where, it's sort of like

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Speaker 1: a very specific kind of gig. But they were their journalists,

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Speaker 1: they were credentialed, and they didn't cover this, I would

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Speaker 1: never use them again you have. I mean, this would

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Speaker 1: of any story you might cover outside of the fights themselves,

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Speaker 1: this would be number one. And it meets every single

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Speaker 1: criteria you could possibly imagine. Now I understand what folks

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Speaker 1: might be saying, which is what has no impact on

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Speaker 1: my life. My life as a fan is utterly not impacted.

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Speaker 1: That's a fair response. Actually, I don't think that's a

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Speaker 1: crazy response, but that's the media's role is not to

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Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, if Jeff and Wyoming is not affected,

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Speaker 1: does that mean I shouldn't cover it. If you're affecting

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Speaker 1: people or entities that are of significant interest or value

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Speaker 1: or scope, Disney being one of them, ESPN being one

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Speaker 1: of them, UFC being one of them, then it is

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Speaker 1: of course quite relevant. Now I believe that the story

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Speaker 1: is unimpeachably relevant and should be covered. Now there's a

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Speaker 1: question of like, how far do you go? Do you

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Speaker 1: go as far as what Alan Dawson did to get answers?

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Speaker 1: I will tell you I think a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: are not used to seeing that kind of journalism in MMA,

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Speaker 1: but this is pretty much quite common. In fact, what

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Speaker 1: I would say is this was kind of funny. This

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Speaker 1: is how you can tell critics a lot of I

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Speaker 1: should say a lot of critics of MMA media have

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Speaker 1: not watched a lot of other sports. Because the MMA media,

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Speaker 1: with all of their problems and all of the fair criticisms,

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Speaker 1: is relative to NBA or NF especially NFL or other

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Speaker 1: sports stick and ball sports media, they are by far

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Speaker 1: the kindest to the athletes That isn't to say that

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Speaker 1: they are kind. Perhaps you find them quite loathsome. This

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Speaker 1: isn't to say that they are in every way unimpeachable.

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Speaker 1: What I'm telling you is, if you think MMA media

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Speaker 1: is criticism, you haven't seen anything. They are significantly more

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Speaker 1: critical of both athletes and institutions in regular sports than

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Speaker 1: they are in this one. So you know this idea

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Speaker 1: that like MMA media is too harsh is It's like,

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Speaker 1: by what standard? Is that true? By? By other sports standards?

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Speaker 1: It's it's obviously not true. I have seen folks say, well,

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Speaker 1: it's this sort of leftist introduction of politics, But I

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Speaker 1: really I wonder what the source of that thinking is

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Speaker 1: other than just general media antipathy. Let me give you

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Speaker 1: a counter example. I realized this is not in any

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Speaker 1: way what Kinahan is accused of doing. But if if

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was still alive and he was funding fighters one, two, three,

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Speaker 1: four or five of them, and a fighter got on

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Speaker 1: TV and praised him, would this be acceptable to you?

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Speaker 1: Would this be something you would not want the MMA

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Speaker 1: media to Can you imagine if the MMA media did

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Speaker 1: not ask about something like that? Now, I grant that's

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Speaker 1: not the charge he is facing. So you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's different. That would be child predation or something like that. Okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: But the point I'm trying to make here is the

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Speaker 1: only moral reasoning that has happened by the media, and

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Speaker 1: the only moral introduction that they have made, is that

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Speaker 1: this is somebody who is wanted by the law and

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Speaker 1: is accused of murder and accused of or being parts

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Speaker 1: of murders, or accused of serious theft and other crimes.

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Speaker 1: If you can't operate from a position that at least

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Speaker 1: treating that as serious and worthy of inspection is a

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Speaker 1: real possibility for you. If you can't treat that as

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Speaker 1: something that you can cover, then you can't cover anything.

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Speaker 1: If the basic moral inclination that yes, what that person

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Speaker 1: has been accused of is not in any way a fact,

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Speaker 1: they would have to be captured and tried and everything else.

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Speaker 1: These are very serious accusations, with very serious amounts of

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Speaker 1: evidence that have been put forward. They are wanted by

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Speaker 1: multiple world governments. Here. Are not talking about fringe actors here.

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Speaker 1: If you can't even start from an operating assumption that

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Speaker 1: that's a bad thing and that they're wanted by the wall,

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Speaker 1: is probably a very serious thing. You couldn't have media,

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Speaker 1: And I know what the response to that is, which is, well, yes,

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Speaker 1: you could. We just talk about the fights. Just talk

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Speaker 1: about the fights, folks. If you just cover the fights,

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Speaker 1: you are not covering the sport. You are only covering

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Speaker 1: the fights. That's it. The sport also should be covered.

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Speaker 1: There are good actors in the sport, there are bad

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Speaker 1: actors in the sport, and the public has a right

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Speaker 1: to know about either of them. There are good things

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Speaker 1: that happen outside of the fights, there are bad things

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Speaker 1: that happen outside of the fights. The public has a

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Speaker 1: right to know about all of them. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: that isn't even true that you want folks to cover

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Speaker 1: just the fights, because what you also want are all

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Speaker 1: the stories and the interviews and the feature pieces that

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Speaker 1: make the fighters you like the mosts look even better.

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Speaker 1: So if you just wanted us to cover the fights,

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Speaker 1: you would get all of the things that you actually

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Speaker 1: like and think is real. Media also taken away what

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Speaker 1: basically folks want from them the media, and again part

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Speaker 1: of this is their own undoing is they just want

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Speaker 1: the media to act like professional fans in the way

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Speaker 1: that fans might act. I like this person, I like

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Speaker 1: that fight, I love this organization, I don't like these

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Speaker 1: other ones. Magnify these preferences and feed them back to me.

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Speaker 1: That's where a lot of this stems from, in addition

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Speaker 1: to all of the fair criticisms that are out there,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't know what you're supposed to do

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Speaker 1: with that. I don't know where you're supposed to if

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Speaker 1: your media, what are you supposed to How are you

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Speaker 1: supposed to interpret any of this in any kind of

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Speaker 1: serious way? What would be the serious argument that there

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Speaker 1: is no place for that kind of coverage in the

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Speaker 1: sport I would love to hear it. If you have one,

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Speaker 1: you can email me Luke Thomas neewsatgmail dot com. You

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Speaker 1: can put a a argument for it below. What would

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Speaker 1: be a better conception of what media coverage them it

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Speaker 1: looks like, which, by the way, is a very helpful

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Speaker 1: and good conversation to have. But make the argument that

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Speaker 1: a crime lord, an alleged crime lord wanted by the

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Speaker 1: US government, along with many other places, accused of doing

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Speaker 1: serious crimes, legitimate, very serious crimes, is praised by a

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Speaker 1: professional athlete on the biggest sports network in North America.

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Speaker 1: Make the claim that that's not a story, but that

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Speaker 1: all the things that you like that are utterly frivolous,

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Speaker 1: that that's really the important stuff. I would love to

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Speaker 1: see it. I would love to see it. You can

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Speaker 1: make all kinds of criticisms about MMA media that I

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Speaker 1: would find probably pretty good. I cannot think of a

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Speaker 1: coherent way to structure a real kind of media coverage

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Speaker 1: that jettisons and repudiates the idea that crime bosses being

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Speaker 1: shouted out by professional athletes alleged crime bosses is outside

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Speaker 1: the purview. But fight coverage, and then let's call it

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Speaker 1: the it's basically working as a de facto pr arm

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Speaker 1: of the fighters. That that's there's nothing wrong with that,

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Speaker 1: but that's that should lead the coverage, except that you

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Speaker 1: only want us to cover the fight, so that's gone too.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how this is supposed to work. If

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Speaker 1: you listen to my live chat, if you listen to MK,

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Speaker 1: you all know about my political preferences. I don't hide

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Speaker 1: them from you. I believe that you can make it

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Speaker 1: in more informed decision about the kind of coverage you

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Speaker 1: get and where you should get it. If people like

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Speaker 1: me in these positions journalist media, whatever, they are are

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Speaker 1: at least honest with you about their preferences. I don't

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Speaker 1: hide my preferences. I'm honest with you. I absolutely do

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Speaker 1: have left leaning politics. They're simply no denying it, nor

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Speaker 1: am I trying to deny it. And you should take

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Speaker 1: that into consideration. And however you view this coverage or

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Speaker 1: any other coverage, it should in some way impact your judgment.

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Speaker 1: It should also impact all the things I've said that

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Speaker 1: should be an impact as well. But this, to me

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Speaker 1: feels like a very basic moral reasoning test. Doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like it's a whole lot more than that. If if

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Speaker 1: we cannot even be in a place where something like

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Speaker 1: this is reported on and the athletes asked about it

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Speaker 1: in a very professional setting. He wasn't hounded outside in

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Speaker 1: the alleyway, No one followed manor Lazez, not if that

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Speaker 1: they would ever do that. But you get the idea.

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Speaker 1: This was a professional setting. He was asked questions as

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Speaker 1: a credentialed member of the media. If even that is

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Speaker 1: outside the purview of what we're supposed to be doing here,

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Speaker 1: then we shouldn't exist. Is really the end of the story,

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Speaker 1: Their journalist, media, whatever you would the entire umbrella, they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't exist. What you really want is that gone. Then

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Speaker 1: what you want is for power for people to just

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Speaker 1: do whatever they want. That's a world where might mix. Right.

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Speaker 1: This is not to oversell the nobility of media. It's not,

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Speaker 1: but it is supposed to serve as one kind of

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Speaker 1: thing if nothing else that bad actors went at all possible.

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Speaker 1: Do not get a place to hide because no one

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Speaker 1: is willing to say what the truth is. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. I work inside of a sport where very

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Speaker 1: few people share my preferences politically, and I just have

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Speaker 1: to accept that. And I have. I have accepted that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be in the in terms of the worldview,

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Speaker 1: the minority, the vast majority of the time. I recognize that.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think it's important that on this

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Speaker 1: video I at least make an argument to you about

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Speaker 1: why this story appears to be different to me. But

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Speaker 1: I would also say, if what you're looking for from

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Speaker 1: media is just to have your values repeated back to you,

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Speaker 1: you are not interested in media. You are just interested

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Speaker 1: in having your worldview affirmed and your ego stroke. That's

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Speaker 1: not what the media is there for. It could at

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Speaker 1: times happen that the media will spit back something to

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Speaker 1: you that in fact does all of that, in which

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Speaker 1: case great, But a lot of times reality doesn't work

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Speaker 1: that way. And of course we're dealing with things that

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Speaker 1: are alleged and a lot of things that are unknown.

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Speaker 1: But as I've been over before, this story passes every

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Speaker 1: newsworthiness test and then some. So there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of reflection. I think that should be happening everywhere. Part

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Speaker 1: of this and the reason why there's been such a

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Speaker 1: strong reactions I think the mma media has not taken

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Speaker 1: into account its failures. I also think, on the other side,

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Speaker 1: that there is a little bit of basic moral decency

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Speaker 1: that is required to do the job, and a little

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Speaker 1: bit of basic moral reasoning to do the job, which

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Speaker 1: folks wrongly assume to be some kind of introduction into

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Speaker 1: woke politics. Deciding that murder and theft is bad and

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Speaker 1: that done at a grand scale is bad, and that

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Speaker 1: people who have alleged to have done it, who are

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Speaker 1: wanted by several world governments doesn't make anything they've done fact,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly makes them potentially dangerous and certainly a

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Speaker 1: very serious matter worthy of a lot more consideration and

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Speaker 1: a lot more introspection and a lot more investigation than

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Speaker 1: has been done. That's the job. You can like that,

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Speaker 1: you can hate that. That's the job.