WEBVTT - Lagging Demand for Nvidia and Apple's M&A Slowdown (Podcast) 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.480 From the heart of where innovation, money and power Collie 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.880 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:27.520 Emily Jay. I'm Emily Jacket, San Francisco, and this is 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.920 Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour. In video 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.879 misses on revenue by more than a billion dollars, assigned 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.839 demand for PCs, gaming consoles and other electronics might be 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.320 drying up after a two year pandemic boom. We'll talk 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.720 about just how long the slump could last. Plus, Apple 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:46.960 is being picky when it comes to M and A, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.519 why the iphonemaker has slowed down its buying spree despite 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.160 a one seventy nine billion dollar war chest. And is 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.160 Facebook really the underdog now or are we underestimating it 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.760 will count the way in which TikTok still doesn't even 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.960 come close to Meta. All of that in a moment, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.600 but first, sticking with in video, the graphics chip giant 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.360 missing its own quarterly revenue projections by more than a 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.440 billion dollars evidence that demand for electronics components is drying 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.680 up after a two year pandemic boom boom. Brooks I 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.479 and King, who covers all things semiconductors, joins US now 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.640 and wow, a billion dollars miss is not something you 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.200 normally associate with Jentsen Wong and in video what happened? Yeah, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.640 I mean, it's it's not a surprise that it happened, 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.280 given what Intel had said, what am D had said, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.720 what other PC related kind of components make as it said. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.400 But I think the extent to which they fell short 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.200 and the sort of rapidity with which demand has obviously 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.480 fallen away has obviously caused a lot of concern. And 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.640 that's what the analysts and investors have been talking about today. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.680 Why did they get their own projections so wrong? Yeah, 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:53.800 I mean they said, oh, it just happens, how quickly 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.840 it fell off, so so rapidly that we didn't see 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.720 this coming. The concern, or, if you like, the underlying 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.680 fish is that it's not just consumers and not just 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.640 gaming related, but also this crypto dependency that they said 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.040 that they've shared, Our chips aren't good for crypto mining anymore, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:13.760 you don't need to worry about that. But then we 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.560 see cryptocurrency has obviously been to a rough time, no 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.000 reason to be mining in a lot of situations. Now, 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.959 maybe those cards are coming back into the gaming market. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.920 They also pre announced. I mean, how unusual? Is this 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.120 relatively unusual? But again, to be fair to Nvidio, at 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.399 least they did. One of the big themes on Intel's 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.280 kind of disaster at call last week was why didn't 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.160 you pre announce when it was so bad? You know, 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.480 investors don't like surprises. The fact that they did is, 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.160 as you say, unusual. But at least they're being forth 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.680 right and they're being given some credit by at least 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.560 some of the analysts for doing that. So are they 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.520 clearing inventory? And is this something that will be cleared, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.959 you know, say by the next quarter. That's that's the 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.639 positive scenario. The positive scenario says, this is what the 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.520 chip industry does. They over build, They get it wrong. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.520 They can't match these supply with short term demand movements. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.600 As soon as we clear out the inventory, we're back 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.520 to normalize situation. Everything's okay. That's a positive picture. The 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.480 negative is like consumer demand. Meantime, they've been investing in 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.960 the server market and that's actually helped kind of cushion 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.399 the blow. Right, Yeah, no, absolutely right. That's why they're 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.760 the world's most valuable chip company because they've built this 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.680 incredible service business. But even that missed today. So what 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.119 does they say about the broader state of the chip industry. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.919 I mean, did anybody expect the pandemic boom to to 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.240 last indefinitely? I mean, come on, you're remembering it perfectly. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.680 How many times, right did we talk about this? How 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.280 many times did chip an industry CEOs tell you things 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.920 are different now? The PC market is a much higher level. 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.560 Everything's okay. Every household needs three or four PCs. Everything's 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.560 going will be okay. And here we are in the 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.200 middle of two two saying that's absolutely not true. All right, 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.280 and King, thank you for all the extra details there. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:11.640 We'll be watching shares of Galaxy Digital rising Monday despite 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.640 reporting a five million dollar loss. Bloomberg Shinneli Bassa and 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.320 Caroline I spoke with Novegrats about the state of the 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.479 crypto winter. Take a listen. We've had one credit loss 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.840 in the history of our company, and uh, you know, 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:31.120 I disclosed the name today. It's a manageall lost relative 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.560 to our balance sheet, relative our credit business. Our credit 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.560 business actually was profitable on the on the quarter. I 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.039 feel pretty good about that. What we saw away from 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.000 us was huge concentration in this one name, which created 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.680 a lot of the systemic risk that we saw. Uh, 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.760 and the and the cascading of bitcoin all the way 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.440 eighteen thousand um. You know, I I don't have a 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.960 crystal ball when I add up the total planes that 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.560 people filed. Uh, it doesn't feel like there'll be a 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:04.320 lot comes back in that case. You know, you've got Celsius, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.960 You've got Voyager, You've got lots of other places where 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.240 both institutions and retail lost a lot of money, and 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.360 there will be a business for that where people are 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.160 bidding up. I want to double down on retail because 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.159 you brought it up. You know, you mentioned earlier that 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.839 your skeptical of a soft landing, and to the extent 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.880 that means you mean there's a recession coming that it 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.400 will be a hard landing. How much money will there 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.880 really be on the sidelines to put into crypto, let 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.200 alone any risk asset. Listen, you know, the FED increased 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.000 money to supply at a rate that we've never seen before, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.560 and they're slowly withdrawing that. There's still a ton of 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.480 money in the system, right There was excess savings in 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.560 retail that's getting worn down some. But there's monster casualties. 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.520 People got really nervous, and we had a pretty dramatic 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.960 sell off in the first half of the year. And 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.080 so I don't think we're going to see what we 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.680 saw last year when money is flowing in and it's 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.880 all it's all booming. But I don't think it's armageddon 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.839 here yet either. Uh And so again I I, you know, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:10.320 will Bitcoin get through thirty thousand on this move up, 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.599 We'll see. I'm doubtful. I think we're gonna probably be 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.520 in this range now. I'm quite frankuively be happy if 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.120 we're in a a you know, twenty two thousand or 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.960 twenty thousand thirty thousand range for a while. With the 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.400 next move breaking up, hearium has got a little bit 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.240 more juice at the top of its range. It can 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.719 be you know, makes out, it could go higher. That's 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.320 got a real story. But I don't see, you know, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:38.279 the mania that we saw in one or twenty seventeen reigniting. Listen. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:43.760 I hope are wrong. Galaxy Digital CEO Mike novograts there. Meantime, 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.239 Apple used to acquire a company every three to four weeks, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.839 but it's dramatically slowed. It's dealmaking in the last two years. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.680 Apple spent one a app billion dollars on payments tied 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.160 to acquisitions in fiscal year twenty, but just over two 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.440 hundred million dollars in the last ten months. Brig Smart 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.000 German here to discuss. So why is Apple slowing down 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.920 the pace of deal Smart that's a good question. Well, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.000 when you look at this chart, when you think about it, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.600 the first two things you might you know, the reasons 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.920 you might propose as one, COVID Right, COVID messed up. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.520 You know everyone's business plan. You have to tear it 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.440 all up and start over. Right. The second is regulation. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:26.040 Obviously you have the FTC going after in video Microsoft deals, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.240 you have the act Division deal for nearly seventy billion dollars, 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.880 you have Meta Amazon, all these players spending so much 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.440 money and the regulators assuming them and trying to get 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.480 in their way. And so maybe Apple is fearful of that, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.000 as a new note inside of the regulatory filings to 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.920 the SEC may suggest. But I think it's really neither 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.840 of those, because you look, that was really the height 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.600 of the pandemic. In that year they spent more than 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.760 they had since right. I also think that Apple is 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.720 not spending amounts of money that necessarily would lead to 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.720 scrutiny from the FTC. You know, their government's globally right, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.400 So I think this is a matter of fact of 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.040 their product development schedule. One, two investing in other areas, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.440 and three maybe they're trying to go at it more alone, right, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.640 without needing to acquire companies. But at the same time, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.760 this is extremely odd. I would bet that most people 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.600 don't know that Serie face, I D Touch, I D 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.880 Apple Music, Apple News, the weather app. I could sit 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.480 here for ten minutes giving you a list of iPhone 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.360 features that we all use every day. Those all stemmed 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.880 from acquisitions, and so buying smaller companies and startups and 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.280 core technologies and engineering teams has been core to the 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.200 Apple development process ever before, since Steve Jobs even returned 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.720 to the company in the late nineties. That's interesting because 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.680 Apple has never been one to make big acquisitions, certainly 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.280 not to the scale that Mark Zuckerberg has. For example, 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.520 How how is them not making these smaller acquisitions over 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.360 at least the last year going to impact the product 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.560 development cycle? You know, I would look at it this way. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.560 I think that these acquisitions have helped Apple get to 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.959 where they want to get much more quickly, right and 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.800 at lower costs, you know, per se Right, I'll give 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:16.120 you my favorite Apple acquisition is probably authentic back in right, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.920 they bought that company, and all that company did was 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.760 make very secure and reliable fingerprint scanners, right, and that 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.000 that led to touch I D on the iPhone five s. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.640 Remember how cool that was? Right? And so those little things, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.040 even though they're not big deals, led to some pretty 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.880 cool features that have helped them sell new phones. Right. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.440 And to answer your question, I think they should really 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.760 be snapping up autonomous car companies, car companies in general 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:46.360 car manufacturing to really bring that Apple car closer to fruition. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.840 Remember when Elon Musk said that Apple buying Tesla on 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.640 the table for a market cap around sixty billion, was 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.319 on the table about five years ago before the Model 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.880 three came out. Imagine if Apple would have bought Tesla 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.120 back then, how different the our industry would look today 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.280 for just a sixty billion dollar deal. And when I say, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.040 just if you compare a sixty billion dollar deal compared 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.120 to Apple's cash balance over the last decade or so, right, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.200 it is small potatoes. So I think their acquisition strategy 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.120 has paid off in a lot of ways, but we're 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.079 seeing some changes here, at least for the last two 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.280 fiscal years. All right, Mark German and Ali, Thanks Mark 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.120 as always. Thanks all right. Coming up digital rights in 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.800 a post row world. How to navigate what can and 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.400 can't be used against you when it comes to your 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:47.720 web searches. That is next. This is Bloomberg. Their companies 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.560 provide a very important service that allows people to access 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:56.400 information about their healthcare. Tech companies could choose to uh 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:02.000 provide that information, provide free security services to websites disseminating 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.439 that information so they're protected from vigilante hackers. The other 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.040 things that tech company can do is become very prepared 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.599 to go into court and actually pushed back against the 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.400 requests that they get from law enforcement. They have enough 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.240 data on all of us to serve their business model. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.199 They don't need data about people's private health choices in 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.719 order to make money. And if they are disregarding the 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.600 rights and welfare of the people that they are serving 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.760 through the technologies that they provide, those people are going 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:38.840 to be less and less able to participate. As abortion 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.520 restrictions tighten in various states across the United States, questions 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.480 remain about privacy. How will new laws be enforced in 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.640 the digital age. Privacy advocates warn that location and other 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.079 kinds of data could be used to track individuals who 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.160 visit abortion clinics or travel across state lines. Joining me 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.960 out to dig deeper into this is Alexandra Gibbons, President 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.600 of the Center for to Democracy and Technology. Alexandra, thank 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.200 you so much for joining us. So what's not being 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.480 talked about? Um when we think about the power that 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:13.319 these companies have and that the threat that our information 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.160 could be used against us. I think this really is 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.839 a wake up moment for the tech companies to think 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.079 about the sheer amount of information that they have and 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.000 to know that their users want that information to be protected. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.800 So we need companies thinking about just how much data 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.240 they collect, how long they store it for, where they're 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.800 sharing it with, and getting really smart about how they 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.000 respond to law enforcement requests as well. What kind of 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.839 data are you most worried about that these companies have. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.719 So right after the news of the overturning of rovi 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.120 weight came out, there was a big conversation about period 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.400 tracking apps and that matters. But users need to realize 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.400 that there's a lot more they should be focused on. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.640 We're talking about your browser information, what websites you visited, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.760 your search history, your online purchases of some he purchases, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.120 medication that could be used in the case of an abortion, 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.640 and then also the subject matter of your texts and emails, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.760 and finally your location information, which we can be collected 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.360 by your phone, by apps on your phone, and also 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.880 by your Internet service provider as well. How should tech 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.839 companies prepare themselves to deal with this? They need to 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.079 think about a couple of different things. One is just 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.280 their data collection practices. In the first place, we're about 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.839 to enter a world where law enforcement is asking these 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.719 companies to hand over their customers most sensitive information for 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.800 prosecutions that are wildly unpopular when you look at the 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.800 broader American public. So companies need to think about what 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.679 they're collecting, how long they're keeping it for, and then 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.400 also how they are responding to these law enforcement requests. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.400 If they get them. They need to be requiring a warrant. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.439 They need to be fighting to make sure that those 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.520 warrants are narrowly tailored. They need to be pushing back 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.400 for law enforcement doing overbroad phishing expeditions, and they need 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.720 to be telling users about the request that they're getting 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.200 so we can have more transparency in the space. You've 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.400 also talked about how worried you are about a chilling 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:13.000 effect on free speech when it comes to information around abortion. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.079 Can you explain that there's a big conversation to be 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.200 had here around online content moderation, So how companies can 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.280 make sure that they're helping people get access to reliable, 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.360 accurate information about abortion services, pushing away miss and disinformation, 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.640 and then also just pushing back on the growing number 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.800 of state laws were likely to see of state legislatures 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.200 trying to make it illegal to post online information about 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.560 how to access reproductive care. So we need the companies 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.760 to be thinking about what they're curating, what are the 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.760 signals they can put online to help give access to 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.680 good health care information fairly similar to what they've had 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.440 to do under COVID really um and also make sure 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.840 that they are not, you know, falling for these statutes 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.320 that try to access limit access to good information about 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:04.080 reproductive air. Are there ways that big tech companies could 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.080 help women wanting to make this choice or who feel 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.800 like they have no choice but to make this quote 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.760 unquote choice. Yeah, I mean, it's all about knowing your options, right. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.160 It's about a woman being able to understand the circumstances 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.360 that she's in and make an informed decision. And so 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.040 some of the things that we've seen companies do which 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.920 I admire and like, is, for example, of a person 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.320 searches for abortion services, what are the ads that can 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.720 come up against that search, you know, down the bar 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.000 on the side of your search engine. How do we 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.120 make sure that those are from certified providers, They are 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.560 trusted ads, They're not from places that actually are trying 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.200 to trap people that are seeking information about abortion care. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:46.880 And we have reason to believe in this climate, the 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.600 crisis pregnancy centers, which come from the anti abortion movement 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.480 might well be trying to target people who are running 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 those searches. So there are things like that, What are 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.480 the indicators for trusted information that platforms can do? And 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.800 then how can they really quickly respond to fraudulent websites, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.840 websites that are trying to entrapt people seeking information for 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.840 care and d escalating the spread of viral miss and 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.240 disinformation about abortion services as well. What are your biggest 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:19.640 fears about how technology could potentially be used against us. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.920 I think they're starting to become true already, which is 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:24.760 the care of the fear that these are going to 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.120 be used in prosecutions. And also when you look at 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.240 some of these state statutes, it's not just law enforcement 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.440 prosecutions against people who are seeking or providing reproductive care, 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.800 but there are some statutes out there that authorized individual 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.120 citizens to go out as private bounty bounty hunters and 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.200 follow their own lawsuits against people that they suspect of 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.800 aiding and abetting abortions. That's really dangerous because it creates 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.240 this incentive system for you know, the Wild West, for 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.880 lone rangers to go out there be tracking down information 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.600 about their neighbors, bringing these lawsuits with the promise of 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.800 the state paying them a ten thousand dollar bounty if 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.320 they do so. That is a really worrying environment for 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.920 people's privacy and ability to access good information online. So 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.520 that is the type of landscape that the tech companies 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.800 just should not want to get themselves in the middle of. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.639 And that is why we need the tech companies really 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.200 limiting their collection of sensitive health information that could be 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.280 used to create an inference that somebody has accessed abortion 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.720 services or any other type of reproductive care that could 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.879 expose them to litigation or prosecution. It's potentially very terrifying. 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.560 Have you seen any particular examples, UM, where this has 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.399 happened or where this is happening already? So there have 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.680 already been cases, even before the overturning of Roe v. Wade, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.800 there were women who were being prosecuted for their pregnancy outcomes, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.040 being accused of self inducing miscarriages late in their term. 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.160 And what was used in those prosecutions where people's browsing histories, 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.600 their online purchase history evidence that they had purchased certain 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.200 medications online. And then even in one case, the subject 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.920 and the contents of a woman's text messages with a 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:07.520 friend as she was trying to get it vice on 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.720 what to do. So we've seen already in these cases 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.879 that digital evidence can be used in evidence against you. 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:15.760 And so that's a reason why users need to be 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.280 careful and why the companies really need to be watching 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:23.200 us as well. Chilling indeed, Alexander Gibbons, thank you for 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.280 shedding light on this issue. Really appreciated. President of the 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.479 Center for Democracy and Technology, UM, thank you for stopping by. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.400 Welcome back to Bloomer Technology, and Emily Check in San Francisco. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.280 SoftBank says it will sell some or all of its 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.840 shares in so far reported holdings equivalent to a nine 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.000 percent steak. Soft Bank reporting a record net loss as 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.360 a self and Global Tech Stocks continues to hammer its 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.879 Vision Fund portfolio. I want to get back to markets now. 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.440 Shares of EV makers and clean energy companies jumping after 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.119 the US Senate passed a landmark bill on climate or 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.200 at Ludlow back with the movers. Yes, So the bill 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.320 moved those you'd expect them to a lot of EV 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.440 main names. Three seventy four billion dollars of energy and 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.680 climate spending is ear marks. You look at names like 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.119 Tesla actually been up much higher around five percent, but 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.080 closing up eight tenths of one percent, and some of 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.399 these smaller EV makers and legacy names like GM and Ford. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.560 It ends the per manufacturer limit on the seventy dollar 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.240 tax credit, which is something we'd expected, had been negotiated 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.119 for many months, and of course that scene as a 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.200 tail wind for demand. But there are price limits. Anything 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.480 over fifty five dollars for an evy car or sedan 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.359 is not eligible, and anything over eighty dollars for a 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.280 pickup or suv is not eligible. But this is what 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.840 we've been waiting for the government to kind of give 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.560 this industry a bit of a push get it going. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.800 Not done much for the stock so far this year, though, 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.520 you look at the performance of Tesla versus legacy names 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.600 like G and Forward year to date, there's still under 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.320 pressure and we're still seeing different declines. But I walk 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.040 over to this side of the screen and you do 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.359 see Forward in particular closing that share gap on tests 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.919 or in terms of year to date performance because they 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.160 are starting to ramp up their own activity, and again 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.920 with government support, there is hope that they'll see more. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.360 It wasn't just evs as well. There are measures within 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.520 the bill for support for renewable energy, not just in 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.920 the form of solar, but also in hydrogen plug in 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.440 as well, and you see some names here across solar 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.520 moving pretty significantly on the back of that bill being 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.639 negotiated overnight. Not all the way there goes to the 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.560 House next for the expectation, even though this is trimmed 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.879 out down from where we started a year ago, is 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.159 that this is a really big play ultimately to reduce 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.520 common mission from where we were in two thousand five. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:50.679 Interesting development, All right, thank you well. Mark Zuckerberg's new 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.000 narrative from matter has consistently involved pitching Facebook's platforms as 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.719 the underdog, especially when it comes to regulation and competition. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.360 But Facebook may be in a better position to take 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.600 on TikTok than Zuckerberg is leading the public to believe, 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.440 according to Bloomberg Business Weeks Max Chaffkin, in a different 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.120 regulatory environment, Zuckerberg might simply try to buy TikTok. That's 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.640 not possible at the moment. Thus his strategy is evolving. 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.119 Max Chafkin joins me, Now, so does anybody really believe 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.720 Mark Zuckerberg when he says Meta is an underdog? Well, 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.400 I mean we've seen, uh yeah, a bunch of raft 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.760 of stories all about the the you know, existential challenges 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.680 facing Facebook, and of course investors have sent the stock 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.880 down something like since February, so so they're definitely people 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.879 out there with concerns, and I think what's happening is 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.359 that Zuckerberg is kind of leaning into them. So you 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:47.520 do have um economic challenges, right, So Facebook really benefited 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.960 from COVID stay at home orders and the sort of 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.119 explosion of e commerce shopping that's all gone away, and 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.920 then you do have this kind of cultural challenge where 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.200 TikTok is, you know, getting a lot of mind here. 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.120 It seems like a lot of the younger people, of course, 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.359 are are into TikTok. They're not into Facebook. And Z 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.840 were using that and saying, you know, we're we're really 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.439 in trouble. We need to We're gonna have this intense period. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.840 He's kind of rattling the saber in terms of hiring, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.760 telling employees you know, they shouldn't take vacations and and 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:18.879 you know they need to weed out the bad performers. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.320 And I think this is as you say, it's strategic. Um, 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.120 it's both an effort to try to get more productivity 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.760 out of his staff um, and also kind of a 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.200 positioning thing because Facebook faces um serious and I trust 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.159