WEBVTT - Les Paul & Leo Fender Part I 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:14.960 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.599 the Jet Clark. There's Charles w Chuck, Benny and the 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:28.920 Bryant and Jerry's over there and she's just Jerry. This 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:33.120 is Stuff you should Know. Darry's captain fantastic. Oh yeah, 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.479 that's a good one. We're talking about the piano player. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:41.440 What about how about Mr Roboto? Sure? Okay, Jerry, Mr 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:46.919 Roboto Rowland great? So um, how are you doing? Man? 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.199 I think you're probably pretty jazzed about this one, do 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:55.520 you think? Yea, Dad, Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this one. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.120 As a musician and guitar nerd uh. And we we 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.440 definitely want to shout out at the beginning. The inspiration 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.399 behind this, and a lot of the research for this 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.200 came from the great book called The Birth of Loud. 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.200 It's not there's not a colon on the cover, but 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:17.160 it's implied. Should we get a different jingle for implied colon? Um? Yeah, 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.120 but it should could be like a down kind of 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.240 thing burn Okay. The Birth of Loud, Leo Finder, Les 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.800 Paul and the guitar pioneering rivalry that shaped rock and 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.680 Roll And this was from Ian Ports in twenty nineteen, 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.280 and it is a if you're a guitar player, just 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.240 get the book. You probably already read it, but if 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.880 he hadn't get it because it's great. Yes, um, hats 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:40.640 off to him. Hats off to Dave Russ for helping 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.040 us out with this one as well too. Totally they 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.119 did a great job. So um, well it's a two 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.960 part right, Yeah, we were gonna too parted up because 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.840 it's that big, it's that important of a thing. It's 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.120 really easy for people like me, who um, you know, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.880 appreciate music but also appreciate music to you know what 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:04.680 I mean, um, to kind of overlook the just the 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:11.000 the epic story behind electric guitars. It's almost like like 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.320 I didn't think they were always there, and I knew 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.720 roughly when they've been invented, and I think I kind 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.840 of knew kind of who invented it, but I didn't 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:24.480 realize just what a sweeping effect and impact that electrifying 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.359 certain kinds of guitars had on the world. Like it's 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.440 it's it's one of the most impactful inventions ever made. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.800 Oh absolutely, uh. And then when you look at this 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.360 story and read that book, especially Um the Gentleman Les 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.960 Paul and Leo Fender. It's a remarkable story and that 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.360 they were very similar in some ways, they were very 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.640 very different in a lot of ways. They they both 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.399 ended up with um permanent injuries that affected their craft. Um. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.000 When one was up, another might be down a little um. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.040 And and this goes to the guitars as well. When 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.360 the the Fender brand was up, it seems like the 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.120 less Paul was down. When the Less Paul was up, 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.920 Fender was down. And it's really they both kind of 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.320 tried to take credit for things that they didn't really 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:18.040 invent at times. So it's it's really interesting when you 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.200 look at the story of these two dudes and this 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.360 era of innovation and invention and just how remarkable it 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.040 was and for the people who are really unfairly left 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.720 out that had maybe even more to do with it. Yeah, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.960 because there's a lot of hands that went into the 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.400 creation of the electric guitar as we understand it today, 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.160 a lot of people, a lot of unsung people. Uh, 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.920 these guys just happened to be two the ones who's 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.440 whose names you know, became synonymous with electric guitars. But 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.680 there's also not to say like they didn't deserve to 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.640 have that kind of recognition too. They really did contribute, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.560 even if they did kind of like you said, take 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:00.720 credit to some extent for things they didn't necessarily do specifically. Yeah, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.160 it's one of those inventions that if you ask someone 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.320 who invented the electric guitar, you have to follow that 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.440 up with a lot of questions in order to answer it. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.520 Is it the person who invented the electric guitar pickup 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.880 which made it possible to electrify something? Or is it 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.680 the first person to stick that pick up on a 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.799 chunk of wood instead of a big hollow guitar? Or 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.039 is it the first person to actually build one that 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.400 worked that you could sell to people. Um, you just 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.839 can't answer that cleanly and say this person invented the 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.159 electric guitar. Like five or six people invented the electric guitar. Yeah, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.280 And if you're just a normal like non you know, 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.359 guitar person, you probably regretted asking that question. Now you 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.080 just say, is that freedom rock? Hey man? Yeah, that 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.120 ran through my head more than once. For sure. Turn 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.800 it up. So, UM, I guess we should get started. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:59.720 Um with you want to start with Leo Fender. Yeah, so, um, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:06.599 Aaron's Leonitas Fender. Webster's defines Fender as Leonitas Fender. He 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.400 doesn't have a good name. And he's one of these 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.280 guys you said that. He and Les Paul, who will 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.560 meet in a little while, we're very different. And Um, 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.600 Leo Fender wasn't just different from Less Paul. He was 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.400 different from a lot of people. He was what you 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.760 would call an engineer. And if you have a parent 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.839 who is an engineer, or a friend dad, or you're 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.800 an engineer, you know that engineers are different, kind of different. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.880 They're cut from a different cloth. And and Leo Fender 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.800 was definitely an engineer from what I can tell. Yeah, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.400 I totally thought about your dad during this. Um. Leah 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.280 was born on August nineteen o nine in Orange County, California, 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.560 and his first injury that affected his craft was his eye. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.400 When he was um between seven and eight. He lost 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.480 an eye when he fell off his dad's vegetable truck 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.479 and had a glass eye from there on out. Um, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.520 you know it's it's not like losing an year, which 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.640 we'll get to that later. Um, if you're an engineer 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.320 who works in generally in sound, but when you're working 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.560 on small circuit boards and stuff like that, losing one 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.400 eye is certainly going to affect your work well. Plus 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.160 also he apparently was self conscious about it, which is 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.240 just just at my heart. Can you imagine a little 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.000 a little eight year old Leo Fender who's like, you know, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:23.960 can't look up, He's looking down at the ground all 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:25.680 the time while he's talking to you because he's self 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.000 conscious about his class ali that it's just heartbreaking. Yeah. 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.840 And like he said, he was an engineer, little electrical 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.400 circuit board nerd Uh. He would take things apart and 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.760 put him back together from an early age. He there's 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.800 a great story from the book when he was about 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:47.160 ten years old. Uh, he got underneath the car and 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.479 the driveway and basically took a look at it, what 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:56.039 was going on, went inside and sketched out not only 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.600 just what it exactly looked like, but how it all 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.400 and could explain how it all together to make that 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.120 car move, Yeah, which is astounding. That's like prodigy kind 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.799 of stuff. Like he was an engineering prodigy is another 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:12.320 way to put that. Not you know, even even among engineers, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.200 that's pretty remarkable, and especially as a kid to do 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.800 it too. Um, and then what makes him even more 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.960 remarkable as an engineer And for all the things that 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.480 he accomplished, he never had any formal training as an engineer. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:27.800 He just kind of became one just by beat. Doing 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.200 things that engineers do. Was like taking things apart, putting 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.280 them back together, inventing new stuff, improving things that he 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.760 thought could be improved. He just kind of learned by doing, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.680 which is you know, that's that's old school, very old school. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.080 Get in there and tink her away, right. Yeah, but 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.480 if you don't have overalls on, what are you doing? 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.160 You know what I mean? Now? Was your dad always 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.480 tinkering with things in the house to know? He was 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.880 more like, um, I've had to like make drawings all 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.880 day at work. Leave me alone, Maybe bring me an 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.560 old Milwaukee Tallboy before you leave. But if there was 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.120 anything that went wrong in the house, you know, my 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.000 mom would be like can you fix that? Can you 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.720 fix this? And he could fix it all. Yeah, no problem, 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.360 I can fix nothing. Yeah. He was like, um, he 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.120 was too busy leading um cub scout meetings that I 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.760 was not a part of any longer. It's a tinker. 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.200 He was too busy. Well, it sounds like you guys 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.880 found a great way to not spend time together. Well, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:26.360 I would bring a beer. That's how I got to 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.280 spend time. Uh. So Leo was really fascinated with radios 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.680 early on as a child. He would build his own. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.480 He got a broadcast license when he was in high school, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.240 and before you know it, he had kids and neighbors, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.040 adults even that would come over to have him fix 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.760 their radios, and to the point where he had a 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.280 little repair shop and there in Folds in California, where 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.200 the big Fender factory ended up being. Yeah, I guess 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.679 it started out at that radio as the radio repair 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.920 shop and just kind of grew from there, right, Yeah, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.960 as a radio shack. Isn't that cool? A literal radio shack? Yeah, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.880 I guess so. I I think that the good people 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.679 at radio Sheck would have had a problem with it 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.600 had you called it that, But it was that. You 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.760 could have made a case like, no, no, radio shack 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.200 is the rip off. This is the radio shack, and 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.600 the judge had been like, shut up, shut up, shut up, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.080 you're all going to jail. Um. So he was building radios, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.120 he started working on PA systems, public address systems, which 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.960 I don't know what that is. It's always people are 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:27.920 getting on me now for saying, like everyone knows what 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.200 that is. It's what the principal talked on. Yeah, or 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.319 anytime you have a microphone attached to speakers, that's a 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.240 public addresses. Yeah, that's funny because it has been a 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.920 little while since since somebody called you out on that 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.160 because you stopped saying if you've been living under a rock, 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.680 But now they're they're they're meeting you wherever you're at. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.160 As far as that, I think you either have to 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:54.280 completely stop or just give up caring. One of the two. Well, 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.120 I explained what a PA system was, So maybe I'm 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.040 on the right track. I think you did great with that. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.080 So this is in he started to become obsessed with 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.880 where we're just gonna call the big challenge, which was basically, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.720 you have to think back to a time where music 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.120 was not electrified. They were singing through microphones. The they 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.960 did have um lap steel guitars were electrified. That was 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.880 technically the first electric guitar was the lap steel. Yeah, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.480 the Rickenbacker frying pan I saw, Yeah, that was kind 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.680 of the very first thing. And in fact, the the 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.360 guy who started Rickenbacker, George bow Champ, he was the 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.720 inventor of the electric pickup. So so I gotta thank 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.120 him big time for kind of bleeding the way. Yeah. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:43.800 He basically he yeah, he laid the foundation that who 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.200 knows how long it would have taken. But I just 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.200 want to like explain to people who are like me 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.680 who don't understand this kind of stuff, just real quick, 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.520 with a pick up. Yeah, the pickup is the heart 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.280 of what makes the electric guitar electric. And it basically 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.040 works through um the electro magnetus him where you loop 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.440 a bunch of like copper wire around some magnets, and 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.600 then when you move the strings above those magnets, it 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.520 actually affects that magnetic field and produces an electrical signal. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.600 That electrical signal goes from the pickup through the chord 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.200 to the p a where it's amplified, and now you 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.960 have an electric guitar. And that's the guy who came 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:27.079 up with this astoundingly impressive invention, because not only did 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.360 it work, he figured out how to make it pretty 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.720 small right out of the gate, like that frying pan. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.319 Um electric lap steel guitars ugly but it was small 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.960 and compact. It wasn't like those early computers that took 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.320 up an entire room. He like figured out how to 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.920 make it, you know, useful right out of the gate. 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.800 It was a big, big innovation from what I can tell. Yeah. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.000 And another way to think of h if you know 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.800 nothing about guitars of the pickup is it's like the 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:58.720 microphone for the guitar. Uh, and you when you're when 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.800 someone is playing a guitar, it's that little horizontal uh 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.280 usually sort of uh, not oval, but it's square and 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.320 then rounded. I don't know what that shape is. What's 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:13.360 that called ellipsoid? Is that real? Yeah? It's like that 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.679 means that what it really is? Uh? Yeah, I think so. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:24.720 All right here it's the little ellipsoid underneath the strings. Uh. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.480 Sometimes they're covered up. Uh. Sometimes they're left open, like 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.760 on Fender guitars, they're left open. Um. There's something called 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.600 a humbucker pickup, which uh. Fenders have a tremendous amount 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.880 of hum and buzz when you plug them in because 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.960 it's only one magnet. Humbuckers had two sets of magnets 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.480 that canceled the hum out from each other and those 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.320 are usually but not always, covered up with a little 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.719 steel plate. Right, So humbuckers just two pickups so that they, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.400 like you said, they cancel out the electrical noise from 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.680 the other equipment that it picks up right, Yes, and 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.080 that's what I prefer. Although do you have a rick 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.440 and bocker? I prefer and have quite a few Gibsons. So, um, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.400 when we say, like the electric guitar, you just hit 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.760 upon something when we were talking about the frying pan. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.440 The frying pan was the world's first electric guitar. It 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.480 was from nine thirty one. It had pickups, um, it 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:20.960 had amplified sound, but it was a lap steel guitar. UM. 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.880 So very shortly after that we had what other people 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.480 would call the world's first electric guitar. This is where 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.000 the answer where you're like, well, who invented the electric 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.480 guitar comes from because what a lot of people were 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.360 recognized as an electric guitar came after and it was 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.600 from Gibson I think in N six where it looked like, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.640 you know, a normal guitar, but it was electrified, like 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.600 the classic acoustic guitar, but an electrified version. And he said, well, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.800 why doesn't that qualify as the first electric guitar, because 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.640 it doesn't. For our purposes for this episode, that's still 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.760 not the first electric guitars we're talking about. What we're 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.280 talking about is, as we'll see, what's known as the 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:04.000 first solid body electric guitar. That's what we're really driving at. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.280 So if you're sitting there, you know, and you're just 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.760 crump crumpling your your issue of Guitarist magazine right now 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.520 and losing your mind, sell down, because I just spelled 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.800 it out for everybody. Okay, Yeah, And so getting back 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.680 to where we kind of got off track in a 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.960 good way, but getting back to the big burning question, 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.080 and the big problem was with these they called them 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.760 Spanish guitars, but we call them acoustic guitars now that 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.000 had those electric pickups in them. They were really prone 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.360 to feedback because they had this big hollow cavity behind 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.640 the hole or it. You know, it usually had what's 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.040 called f holes, and that sounds funny, but if you 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.120 look at them, there to shape like an ornate sort 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.280 of curse of f I'm glad you said it. So 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.560 because of these big hollow acoustic guitars with these pickups 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.160 and early amp technology they would just feedback like crazy 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.920 anytime you try to get any volume. So, yeah, those 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.520 pickups wouldn't differentiate between the vibrations from the string that 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.960 you were intended or the reverberated vibrations from inside the 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.240 hollow body of that that Spanish style guitar, and so 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.720 it just sounds awful, right, So that was the thing 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.800 that Leo Fender was obsessed with. He was like, how 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.240 could because you know, it's hard to imagine, but at 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.200 the time, the guitar was not a lead instrument, and 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320 it was there were occasionally like guitar solos and stuff 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.680 that you could uh insert into a recording or you know, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.120 they recorded lives, but you could put on a recording, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.080 but like if you were playing live in a in 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.840 a venue, the guitar was very much in the background 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.720 because you couldn't turn it up loud enough to cut 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.760 through the vocals and the drums, the piano, the horn sections. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:42.320 These were all really loud live instruments. And he was like, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.040 Leo Fender was like, we've got to be able to 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.240 amplify this sound such that it doesn't feedback to where 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.800 you can actually hear the guitar in a concert hall. Yeah, 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.160 so like it can stand on its own rather than 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.080 a company's you know whoever the horns or get drowned out. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.440 Like that was the point of like Fender and later 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.360 on Les Paul's quest is to make the guitar its 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.440 own thing, and to basically do that by making it 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.080 really loud and sound really good when it is loud. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:11.920 Oh man, this is getting good. It's a good time 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:13.720 for a break, I think right. I think so too. Man. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:15.640 All right, I'm gonna go take a cold shower and 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:46.960 I'll be right backs and shock alright, chuck, So we're back. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.840 So Leo Fenders on this quest, he's figured out there's 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.680 a big problem here that if you want to make 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.160 a guitar loud, you have to make it not an 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.680 acoustic guitar. But he one of the things about him 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.960 was he wasn't a musician, and like he didn't clamp 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.399 onto this this problem of creating the electric guitar, figuring 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:10.679 out how to make an electric guitar because he necessarily 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.119 cared about the music. And he also later on it 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.280 turns out he didn't like rock and roll, which would 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.840 be kind of ironic. He was a country western dude 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.320 from southern California, kind of like Nicolas Cage's character and 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:26.520 Valley Girl exactly. Belly Girl that was him basically is 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.440 based on Leo Fender. That's my that's my theory. Uh yeah, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.440 So Fender didn't play, but here's something that was very 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.679 cute that story from the book. He would go to 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:40.000 local music halls during live performances with his He always 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.720 had this little tool kit on him, I think, much 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.119 like your dad's slide role, and he would jump up 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.919 on stage and tweak the amps during the middle of 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.720 performances and people there would be like, what is this 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.040 guy doing? And in the band sometimes and say, hey, everybody, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:56.560 this is Leo Fender. He's the one that makes it 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.600 sound just right. And uh he would like during during 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.000 the show, would kind of get a screwdriver out and 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.560 mess with the amps. That's pretty cute, It's very cool. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.280 Uh yeah. He'd be like, oh, you want me to 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.159 turn it up, man, I'll turn it up for you, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:15.600 dirty hippie. All right? Should we go to Mr Les Paul? Yeah? So, 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.879 um Fender, we should just just recap real quick. Fender 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.040 has has stumbled upon the big problem with electric guitars, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.600 the reverb with a classical guitar. So he's thinking about that. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.120 And now we meet Chuck Les Paul who was born 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:34.119 Lester Paul Fuss in nineteen fifteen and Waukesha, Wisconsin. He 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.040 was a Wisconsin boy like Ed Geene was as well, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:42.080 but not nearly as Grizzly. No, but a guitar wizard 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:47.640 like ed Geene. Right, a little known fact about ed Gaine. Yeah, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.960 so before we get into his childhood, this is the 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.160 real important distinction between Leo Fender and less Paul. Leo 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.320 Fender did not play instruments, was an engineer at heart 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.760 and love to figure out problems for other people. Less 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.879 Paul all was uh the height of his game, the 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.040 most popular guitar player in the world and with a 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.200 string of number one hits. Uh. He was also a tinkerer, 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.320 but he was like, I need to make my guitar 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.359 sound better for me, so I can get better and 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.240 sound better. Yeah, that was his goal all along. But 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.720 you know, it takes a special kind of person to 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.440 say like, Okay, well then I need to figure out 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.520 how to make that happen. I need to figure out 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.480 how to make an electric guitar rather than oh, what 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.520 can I do. I need to I need somebody to 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.520 do this for me. Somebody needs to invent this, right, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.640 I need to collaborate somebody. He was like, I'm I'm 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.199 gonna go try to figure this out myself. And he 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.240 really like, I didn't realize what a guitar got he 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.720 was and that he he was like this. Um. I 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.000 think at one point he had like four hits or 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.359 four spots on the Billboard top charts. UM. Like he 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:59.600 was really a popular musician. UM about midway through his career. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.639 But even from a young age, he started out playing 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.280 like he was a performer. And I think he's also 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.320 credited Chuck with being the person um because he played 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.000 country western too. He also played the harmonica. His act 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.639 was called rubar Bread and it was just him and 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.879 he played the guitar and the harmonica. And he figured 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.520 out long before Bob Dylan every came along. But that's problematic. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.240 You technically need four arms for that. So he fashioned 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.040 a harmonica holder that he could wear while he was 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.639 playing the guitar, just like Bob Dylan. More later on, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.800 he was the kid who invented that years before. Yeah, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.200 maybe this is another one of those things where it's 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.359 like did he invent it or did he see it 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.560 and make one on his own? But not taking anything 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.000 away from the guy. He was also a kid taking 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.240 apart electronics in his house putting them back together. He 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.639 really knew what he was doing, and he also had, 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.200 you know, like every guitar player, that same big problem 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.760 was when he played, he would be up there and 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.680 he could sing through that microphone, although he didn't sing 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:00.960 that much. He did when he was a kid, but 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.439 later on he realized he wasn't not like a pro singer. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.560 Harmonica sounded good through the mic, but the guitar was 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.480 still in the background, and he knew that was an issue. Yes, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.879 apparently um as this as legend has it, he was 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.119 playing a show at a barbecue stand. Um and I 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.800 think it was a regular potentially a regular show. He 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.199 could his harmonica sounded fine when he was singing. It 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.040 was broadcast fine because he had a microphone, but nothing 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.159 was working for the guitar was He was drowning it 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.480 out himself. So he realized that if he took the 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:38.440 phonograph needle, the electrified phonograph needle from his his parents 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.080 phonograph and attached it to the guitar and then attached 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.760 to that to a radio, he could actually amplify his guitar. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.440 So he figured this out I think at like age thirteen, Um, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:55.119 because he wanted to improve his barbecue stand chops and 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.920 tips and tips. He supposedly his tips tripled as a result. 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.280 But um, you know that's pretty impressive stuff. I would 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.679 not have thought about that at the as at the 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:09.240 tender year on the age oft. Yeah, I mean that's 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.280 where the tinkering comes in. And I'm sure it didn't 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.879 sound great to our ears now, but at the time, 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.480 you have to put yourself in the place of like 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.520 literally having never heard something like this happen. Uh, it was. 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.480 It had to have been like a revelation to actually 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.840 hear that guitar coming through a speaker, especially if you 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.840 lived in Waukesha, Wisconsin. You've never heard anything like that 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.280 in your life. But he was very much opposite of 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.960