WEBVTT - #530 Ben Bowlin with Duane Williams 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.680 On the morning of August twenty, twenty twelve, a Detroit 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.280 house fire killed two men, Bobby Cross and Daryl Simms. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.600 Citing an argument from the night prior, the Cross family 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.400 wondered whether Bobby Cross's girlfriend's son, Dwayne Williams, had set 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:25.680 the blaze. However, with no evidence of arson, these deaths 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:31.400 were ruled accidental until three months later, when someone tied 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.720 to the family was looking for a way out of 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.479 a jam. They claimed that Dwayne confessed to this arson, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:42.320 sending him away for life. This is Wrongful Conviction. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.400 You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.160 and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.600 and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.600 on Apple Podcasts. 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.200 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Ben Bullen, the host 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.720 of Stuff they Don't Want You To Know, and your 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.360 host here on Wrongful Conviction for the next few episodes. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.640 This story takes us to Detroit, Michigan, where we've previously 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:25.520 covered stories involving an elaborate jailhouse snitch system. We'll link 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.240 some of those in the episode description, but this one 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.959 is a little different from those scenarios. And the state's 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.319 alleged witness in this case was able to flip two 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.000 accidental deaths into a double homicide charge. For our guest today, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.800 Dwayne Williams. Dwayne, thanks for joining us, Man, thank you 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.080 for having me. We also want to welcome the co 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.760 director of the Cooley Innocence Project and Garrett thanks for 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.000 being here absolutely, as well as Maya Menlo from the 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.120 Michigan Appellate Defender's Office. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:55.520 Thanks. 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.880 What I think we should start off with first is 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.760 to have you tell us a little bit about your 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.440 childhood before the series of tragic events. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.480 I'm from a neighborhood in the trait called Brightmore. It's 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.840 on the west side of the trait. If you ask 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.920 them about it, it has a reputation for like selling 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.119 drugs and like the neighborhood being abandoned. I would say 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.120 it's considered possibly one of the worst neighborhoods on the 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:21.680 west Side. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:23.600 That's the neighborhood I grew up in. 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:25.880 I hate that I had to grow up someone like that, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.280 but it helped to make me the person who I 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.560 was now. In my childhood, I lived with my mother 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:32.920 till I was about seven. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.200 From seven to thirteen, I. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.079 Ended up having to go live with my grandmother because 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:44.000 of physical abuse. But I think that maybe separation issues 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.919 or the situation with my mother my father's not being there, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.919 I started getting into trouble hanging with the wrong people. Luckily, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.960 I always had like an interest in music, though. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.440 What's the kind of music that speaks to you rap? 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.600 I think like when I was younger, where I would 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.799 have problems, I would just listen to the music. That's 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.720 all I did. And around that time I figured out 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.880 that I could rap. I used to write poetry before that, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.360 and I just kind of put the poetry to music. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.639 Unfortunately, when I was. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.240 Like fourteen, I got locked up for stealing cars and 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.639 I went to a place called Boysville of Michigan. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.000 Dwayne spent nearly four years there, but when he was released, 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.000 he continued to follow his music dreams through the early nineties. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.000 I always was doing something with music, but music didn't 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.400 make money, so I kind of was off and on 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.560 with it. I was managed by a company called Starlight 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.160 Entertainment and Limousine. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:43.520 They had limousine. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.640 So what we would do is if you were a 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.680 permoder and you would bring in somebody big in that 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.720 we would basically tell you, We'll give you the limousine 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.320 to pick this guy up at the airport, take him 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.800 to the shows, take him to the hotel, any promotional 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.480 events that you have, but you have to put my 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:00.680 stage with Diablo. 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.080 So you have to put Diablo on the show. 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.320 My name has to be on all the flyers, all 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.000 the radio advertisers, and when you go to pick that 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.880 artist up, I'm in the limit. 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:11.080 You can believe that. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.160 That's a pretty brilliant move that gave. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.560 Me the ability to connect with the artist or anybody 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.640 else who was with him. Besides getting rich, I did 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.480 everything in the music business. I signed all the grand 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.919 I toured, and like how Eminem says, you only had 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:30.920 one hot to blow, I actually have had probably a 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.520 shot at four major record deals. But at any rate, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.640 the point that I want to make was I had 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:41.159 way more opportunities than most people to be successful in 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:46.080 the music business. But because of my past and another 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.800 wrong for convintion, it basically messed all of that up. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.800 And this isn't the first time we've had a guest 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.160 with multiple wrongful convictions. Dwayne was on the receiving end 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.560 of a false accusation, but with no evidence. He was 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.160 still convicted of a lesser charge in two thousand and two, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.640 after which his public defender responded to his claims of 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.760 innocence with and this is a quote, Well, innocent people 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.240 go to jail too, end quote. Dwayne perouled in two 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.280 thousand and four, and the address on record belonged to 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.479 his mom's longtime boyfriend, Bobby Cross. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.120 Bobby Cross was like a bully. She was kind of 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.800 a big guy. And anybody who knows and they know 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.360 this is shoeing. He basically bullied everybody around him. When 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.359 they was at a neighbor's house and he started telling 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.920 me basically, get so sit excuse my leg gets so 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.880 sick in that bitch, sit out of my house. And 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.800 he was talking about my mother and neighbors. Now they 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.040 want us out of the house. So when they're sending 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.880 us out of the house, I'm basically telling Bobby. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.880 Hey, look, I don't want the problems. I don't want 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.360 the trouble. Whatever you tell. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.080 Every time I try to walk away from him, he 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.640 would like step in front of me and block me. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.680 So I told him I didn't want no physical altercation. 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:00.000 He told me that's what he wants. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:00.240 It. 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.240 So, to make a long story short, I hit him 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.719 and I knocked him out, and so it hurts his pride. 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.600 So for years and years he never brought it up. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.920 We never had problems about it, but because I know 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.200 the type of person that he is, and this is 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.240 really embarrassing to him. From that point on, if he 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.720 was drinking, it had a good I see there for 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.400 four or five minutes and I'm leaving. 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.080 So it appears, as is honestly often the case, that 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.920 alcohol can exacerbate personality traits as well as a quietly 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.360 held grudge, and so Dwayne chose never to live at 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.360 that address while continuing to pursue his music dreams with 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.160 this brilliant limousine strategy. 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.200 Eventually we did that a few times with Tea Pain, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.440 and when T Pain's brothers saw it that, he basically 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.039 told me that it's amazing. In the midst of this, 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.200 I started sending my music all over the country and 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:58.520 clubs started booking me. So now I'm basically nobody, but well, yeah, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.240 he's nobody, but he's connect It's a Tea Pay t 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.919 Pay's brother mandyism. So now they're paying me to come 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.400 to different places in America to do so, but unfortunately 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.680 I had a bad row officer who didn't like me. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.960 If DFC gave me permission to do so, and he 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.560 would have to approve me, and he would never approve them. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.920 So because this took away my source of income. When 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.880 me and my wife are married, now, I'm basically like 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.360 looking for regular jobs and I'm just trying to make it. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.440 And that brings us to August twenty twelve. This is 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.520 when Dwayne and his new wife spend the weekend of 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.760 the eighteenth to nineteenth with Dwayne's mother and with Bobby Cross. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.040 They're following leads on a new place to live in 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.720 that area, and when Sunday came, there was a barbecue 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.840 in the neighborhood, as well as some drinking that went 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:51.040 late into the night. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.360 I had got some stakes for somebody to barbecue. At 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.200 some point, somebody told me that Bob Cross wanted to 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.160 talk to me, so I went across the street. He 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.440 told me that I cooked steaks and I didn't offer one. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.400 I told him that you can have all of them. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.120 He told me that he didn't like steaks. So basically, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.520 there's nothing else to say. 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:16.080 It appears this was just the begetting of some unnecessary drama. 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.280 So the night continued on, as did the drinking, all 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.280 the way until somewhere after two am. 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.920 In the midst of this, an argument occurs between my wife, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:31.400 Bobby Cross's daughter, and Bobby Cross. This disagreement and I'm 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.240 not even in it, but it got turned around to 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.360 look like something else. So from two in the morning 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.920 to whatever time in the morning when my mother left, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.840 my mother and Bobby Cross basically they're arguing from room 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.559 to room. The last thing my mother said to me 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.080 was I'm leaving it before he kills everybody in the 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:51.600 house and they drinking. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.080 I ain't paid no attention to that. I went you 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:54.840 was the bathroom. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.120 When I came out of the bathroom, I saw Bobby 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.439 Cross standing there with a shotgun. He never said anything 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.360 to me, never threatened me, nothing happened, but nah, he 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:05.880 has a good So I left. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:07.640 And that was four in the morning. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.440 So Dwayne left to find somewhere else to stay for 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.480 the night. Bobby was sleeping it off. Around six in 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.880 the morning, first responders were dispatched to a fire at 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.840 Bobby Cross's house, and it's important to mention that a 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.320 man named Darryl Simms stayed on the couch. This was 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.080 determined to have been the origin point of the fire. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.240 Mister Simms, he did have disabilities, he was known to 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:36.439 smoke on the couch. Initially, the fire was classified as undetermined, 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.079 which means that there was no conclusion that the fire 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.160 was intentionally set. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.840 Well, because the whole situation the night before that I 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:46.720 just told you about. 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.160 Remember now, me and mister Cross, we're not. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.760 Arguing, but because of that situation, I guess the family 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.760 members had animosity. Jackie crossed his daughter. He ended up 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.520 being one of the main people accusing me of. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.040 Star Thankfully, the investigators followed the facts at the scene 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.000 and therefore the deaths were ruled accidental. This did not 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.199 become a homicide investigation until three months later. A man 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.520 named Gary Jennings, the boyfriend of one of Bobby Cross's relatives, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:21.000 Shannon Tyler. Gary Jennings is arrested for driving without a license, 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.160 cannabis possession, and copying audio video recordings for. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.360 Gates, and that last one was a felony charge. He 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.400 had previously been convicted of the same offense and was 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.439 on probation at the time. Gary Jennings said to police, 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.920 and he testified at trial that the impetus for him 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.120 making contact with Dwayne was that another individual, Deshaun Seabrooks, 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.520 told Gary Jennings that Dwayne had made a big mistake. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.440 He used different words, but Gary said that made me 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.080 contact Dwayne, and Dwayne confessed to me. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.120 So Gary Jennings claimed that Dwayne said that he lit 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.520 the blaze after this argument over rent money, which sounds 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.959 like the ky narrative that might arise when perhaps an 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.160 investigator looks into the addressed which Dwayne was paroled, but 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.840 not where he actually lived. By the way, this statement 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:10.680 was unrecorded. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.439 It's always a red flag when there is a so 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:20.200 called statement or confession that's not recorded, prime opportunity to 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.920 just make something up. And the fact that mister Jennings 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:28.480 was currently in jail facing some pretty serious charges while 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:33.360 he was already on probation and he just magically has 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.440 all of this information about a quote unquote crime that 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.000 had occurred, and that mister Williams was involved. All of 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.400 those things also very problematic. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.760 And then from what we understand as well, I believe 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.239 his felony charge is dismissed. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.920 Yeah, he got a really sweet deal out of this. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.760 Gary Tannings, So he's not a snatch, he's a liar 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:58.760 because I never talked to him about anything. 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.600 It was anything for him to talk about. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.199 But after Gary Jennings popped up and talks to the 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.520 correct police officers, it comes up with a rent story. 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.880 Then months later the family members come up with a 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.000 rent story in a motive tube. So in the beginning 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.319 this didn't exist. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.319 Despite no previous mention of this rent disagreement from the 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.920 Cross family, their statements and eventual testimony become aligned with 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:25.319 Gary Jennings statement. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.199 I think the statement itself is suspect, but what came 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.360 after or what didn't come after, is arguably even more concerning, 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.080 because a member of the public can go to the 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.080 police and say whatever they want to, but it's on 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.520 the police and other law enforcement prosecutors and the like 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.480 to make sure that the statement is credible if they 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.080 intend to use it, and in fact, police talk with 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:53.640 people specifically. I have deshaun Sebrooks, who discredited mister Jennings's statement, 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.640 and unfortunately that statement was never disclosed to Dwayne or 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.800 to his attorney. So everything that police had wade in 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.560 favor of discrediting mister Jennings, but instead they decided to 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.719 credit him and cover up evidence that he was incredible 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:09.720 and proceived with trial. 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.200 But first they had to present the dubious statement to 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.920 the medical examiner to have her reconsider the cause of 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:17.760 these two deaths. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.160 The deaths were initially deemed accidents. The medical examiner changed 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.520 the determination to homicide, but we actually went back and 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.280 spoke with the medical examiner who told us that if 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.960 she were evaluating the case now, the correct determination, if 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.840 there was going to be one for manner of death, 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.080 should have been undetermined. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:39.439 But that determination was the last stop gap between Dwayne 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.240 and charges for arson and two counts of felony murder. 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.800 I was at my assist in law's house and I'm 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.960 in the basement asleep. All of a sudden I heard 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.680 somebody called it by name, and they ended up coming down. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.920 They had goods out ay Keffy, and I remember I 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.480 kept asking, what are you arresting me for? They never 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.720 taught me of what was going on, but they brought 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.360 me outside, took me to the station, and I remember 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:06.920 getting there and we got in the room. 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.280 They started talking about the fire. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.560 I guess I was kind of stocked and a lot 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.960 of the days he's saying to me, it doesn't make sense. 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.920 You know you watched TV shows. The police say, well, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.840 we already know the answer to the question. He asked 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.560 me questions like had me and missus Cross ever had 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:27.120 disputes about money? When no, I never got any money 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.120 from him. He never got any money from me. But 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.760 I didn't realize that he was asking this question because 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.680 of the lies that Jenny told. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:40.520 For some reason, the prosecution had trouble locating Gary Jennings 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.080 for trial as scheduled, so it was postponed until August 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:48.480 twenty eighth, twenty thirteen. What he testified about Deshaun Sebrooks 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.360 telling him about Dwayne, who then allegedly confessed to setting 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.480 the house on fire over a disagreement about rent, as 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.560 well as how Gary Jennings' girlfriend Shannon Tyler had told 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.680 him about the fire only after this alleged confession. Strangely, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:08.160 neither Tyler nor Seabrooks participated, but Bobby Cross's daughter Jackie did. 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.720 Then miss Cross gets understand and now she has a 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.200 story about two weeks where for argument's over rent, which 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.920 is what Jenny said. It made it look like me 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.120 and her father were having continue as problems, and none 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 of those things that she testified to whoever happened, and 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.400 my lawyer didn't do any investigation, wouldn't talk to anybody. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.520 And had he spoken to Deshaun Seabrooks or Miss Tyler, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.840 perhaps he would have been able to impeach the state's witnesses. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.000 But most importantly, the defense neglected to even consult with 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:41.960 a fire expert. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.360 One thing that stood out to me immediately was that 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.480 only one expert testified, and that expert was the government's expert, 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:53.440 Captain McNulty, who's now retired, who arrived at the scene 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.760 hours after the fire, testified on behalf of the prosecution, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.280 but no defense expert testified to poke holes in what 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.680 turned out to be a really faulty analysis. 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.160 McNulty testified that no smoky materials were found near the couch, 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.800 but oddly no photographic evidence was shared with the defense 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.520 nor offered to the jury to corroborate that claim. McNulty 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.040 also claimed that an open flame like a cigarette lighter, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.840 was a more likely cause of the blaze, and that 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.120 it's extremely hard to get a couch to burn with 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.280 a cigarette. This all begs the question, are all couches 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:35.320 the same? Are all materials as flammable as others? Additionally, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.080 nothing was offered to rule out a smoldering cigarette or 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.000 any other possible accidental cause. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.120 I would say in most arson cases the defense should 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.360 at least consult an expert. But here we have two 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.200 sets of problems, and you've pointed out some of them. 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:56.720 We have problems with the experts testimony, even knowing what 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.480 the defense and the prosecution knew at the time of trial, 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.000 what was presented and unchallenged. And then we have things 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.879 that we discovered in our investigation later on that blew 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:07.720 this wide open. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.919 And we'll get to all that they hid from the 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.240 defense and in just a bit. But still trial counsel 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.000 failed to use what was available to him to discredit 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.400 the state's case, not only lay witnesses but also their expert. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.080 Even the jury was curious enough to ask for the 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.120 transcript of McNulty's testimony and other documents as they were 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.520 deadlocked for some time. But ultimately Dwayne was convicted on 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.760 one count of oursen, one count second degree murder, and 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.600 one count felony murder, resulting in a life sentence without 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.400 the possibility of parole. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:46.360 At that moment, cross family members, we're making faces at 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:47.919 me like a little kid is like you stick your 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.120 tongue out like that. They kept doing stuff like that 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.200 to me. And what really bothered me about that word 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.600 that you just said in this court room and got my. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.280 Whole life took for me. And now you back there 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:00.960 doing that. You think this is the game. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.880 I think that until you're in a real serious situation. 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.800 Maybe people think the appeal process works. There's all these 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.080 mechanisms in the system that look like they work until 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:28.520 you the. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.639 Guy stuck in the system trying to use them. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.600 As time goes on and you watch people who you 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.879 know in they file briefs and you know that they 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.639 should have won and they got shot down, it's hard 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.520 to keep hoping. So going through the process, I was 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:49.040 disappointed things were getting shot down, and at some point 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.200 I decided that I can comprehend things, I can read well. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.440 I decided I better do my own thing can work, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.840 because at least if I stay in prison, it's my fault. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:57.520 I can live with that. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.359 After Dwayne's direct appeal, as that died up through the 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.000 State Supreme Court as well as on federal habeas. He 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.680 began writing to anyone who might be able to help, 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.280 which included the newly formed Wayne County Conviction Integrity Unit. 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.000 This is how an guaranted the Kooley Innocence Project got involved. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.919 The Cooley Innocence Project has a partnership with the Wayne 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:26.040 County Conviction Integrity and Cooley is primarily a DNA and 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:31.000 forensic clinic. And in twenty twenty his case was referred 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.760 to our office here at Cooley. A very sharp student 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.800 came across Dwayne's file and brought it to our attention 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.560 and said, something is very wrong with this man's conviction. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.000 And the student and the staff attorney went to visit 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.679 Dwayne and introduced themselves. 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.119 And then Dwayne's outreach also scored him help with the 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.520 Michigan Appellate Defender's office. In twenty twenty one, I. 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.400 Ended up on the case kind of through dumb luck. 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.640 Dwayne had filed a request for and on post judgment 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.679 motions like this one. It's very rare at that stage 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.080 of the proceedings to get counsel appointed, but it happened 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.880 that way, and it was exciting to me to work 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.359 on a case with actual innocence issues, and by the 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.200 time I came on the scene, he had already done 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.119 so much research, so much writing, so much communication with Cooley, 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.440 so he had set up the case really nicely. Shortly 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.960 after we were appointed, we started peppering different law enforcement 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.520 agencies with requests for records, documents, police reports, photos, and 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.520 there are two big things that came out of our 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.960 first and most important for your request. One was a 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.320 version of the fire investigator's report that had not previously 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.199 been disclosed to the defense. At the time of trial. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.639 Dwayne's trial council had a version of the fire investigator 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.879 report that had most all of the information in it, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.400 but one very important fact was missing from that report, 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.480 and when you look at the two side by side, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.400 it almost looks as if a piece of the report 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:05.359 has been cut out, not exactly like white out, but 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:10.440 almost like xcized from the version that we ultimately obtained, 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.639 and that line stated that a Zippo style lighter was 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.480 found in the debris near the area of origin, which 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.240 was near a couch that had been consumed by the fire, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.840 but that was where the fire investigator thought the fire 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.560 had originated. 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.840 Which is obviously a Brady violation. It's also interesting that 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:32.240 the same fire investigator even eschewed a smoldering cigarette as 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.240 a less likely option to a lighter like the one 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:36.840 removed from that report. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.480 So we discovered that there was this additional version of 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.520 the report. We also discovered that there were fifty eight 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.679 photos that had never been given to the defense, and 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.560 in those photos you could see the Zippo style lighter 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.080 that was indeed at the area of origin. So this 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.760 mattered because the defense theory at trial and our theory 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.840 now is that the fire was caused by careless smoking. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.640 It was an accident. There were people in the house 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.760 who were known to smoke in the house, and one 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.399