Speaker 1: This is The Eds with Eddie Judge and Edwin Adoyave.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to The Ed's podcast. My name is Eddie,
Speaker 1: and today we have a special co host, Shane Simpson.
Speaker 1: He is filling in. Hello, Hello, Hell are you Buddy?
Speaker 2: Good? Good?
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me good, Thanks so much for filling
Speaker 1: in for Fred one today. Unfortunately he was not able
Speaker 1: to attend. He's got some big things going on in
Speaker 1: his life right now that have are very very important,
Speaker 1: particularly with his wife's health, and I just want to
Speaker 1: take this to a moment to wish him well and
Speaker 1: a speedy recovery, and I hope that the entire family
Speaker 1: gets through this unharmed. Absolutely, I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Buddy.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you were our first guest ever
Speaker 1: when we launched our podcast, you were our first person.
Speaker 2: I do remember that it was a little while ago.
Speaker 2: It was it was enjoyable.
Speaker 1: I want to say it's almost a year ago.
Speaker 2: Uh way, really yeah.
Speaker 1: Because I think we started well a year ago. We
Speaker 1: started in February and we did a podcast introducing ourselves,
Speaker 1: and then we did another podcast talking about ourselves again,
Speaker 1: and then I think the third podcast is when we
Speaker 1: started interviewing house husbands.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and you get some good insight from house
Speaker 2: husbands I have.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been really excited to get to know
Speaker 1: the guys, particularly the ones I like. You know, It's
Speaker 1: it's fun to hear their real story and hear who
Speaker 1: they really are, because you know, I've I wouldn't call
Speaker 1: myself a victim. I don't like to victimize myself, but
Speaker 1: I think when you don't really speak your voice and
Speaker 1: tell your true story and sure who you are, it's
Speaker 1: hard to have anybody believe you know who you are.
Speaker 2: Right and and in a way, you feel like you're
Speaker 2: in the closet and you're kind of hiding out, and
Speaker 2: you want to be able to express yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And one thing I learned is, you know,
Speaker 1: and and Terry taught me this. He he loves talking
Speaker 1: about himself. So it really is good for us to
Speaker 1: talk about ourselves because who else knows us better than ourselves? Right?
Speaker 2: And maybe there's you know, some areas you feel that
Speaker 2: you're misheard on or misunderstood on, and you want to
Speaker 2: be able to provide clarification. We're really, like you mentioned,
Speaker 2: we're really talking to ourselves.
Speaker 1: Hey, so listen today's topic is about fear and any
Speaker 1: type of fear, phobias, or anything like that. We want
Speaker 1: to talk about fear and men relating to fear. We
Speaker 1: might hit on a little bit about how women handle fear,
Speaker 1: but personally, I don't know about you, but I use
Speaker 1: fear as a tool. The more scared I am of
Speaker 1: doing things, or the more the more something scares me,
Speaker 1: the more I want to do it. Part of it
Speaker 1: has to do with my addictive addiction to adrenaline. You know,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't scare me, it's not big enough. It's
Speaker 1: not scared eno if I really don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: So it took me a while to get here thinking
Speaker 1: about when was the last time I was afraid. I
Speaker 1: think I was a kid. You know, we didn't know
Speaker 1: anything as a kid, and I think that's where fear
Speaker 1: really derives and cripples people. Is the unknown, right, Everybody
Speaker 1: fears the unknown, and everybody is comfortable with what they
Speaker 1: know and they stick to it. So I was looking
Speaker 1: up the definition of fear and it made total sense.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to read it out because it was
Speaker 1: a long one, but it's to the point. It says
Speaker 1: fear is a protective primal emotion that evokes a biochemical
Speaker 1: and emotional response alerting us to the presence of danger
Speaker 1: or the threat of harm, whether that danger is physical
Speaker 1: or psychological. It is one of the seven universal emotions
Speaker 1: experienced by everyone around the world, and it arises with
Speaker 1: the threat of harm, real or imagined. While traditionally considered
Speaker 1: a negative emotion, fear actually serves as an important role
Speaker 1: in keeping us safe by mobilizing us to cope with
Speaker 1: potential danger. I think it's precisely what fear is, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty well. How do you handle fear in general? I mean,
Speaker 1: is there anything you're afraid of?
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned that it seems like you lean into something,
Speaker 2: So something is potentially fearful for you, you like to
Speaker 2: attack it and go head it head, you know, head first, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe beat it, I mean, right and overcome it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's the case for me sometimes, right. I
Speaker 2: certainly can't say I attack everything and I'm just going
Speaker 2: after it. But yeah, sometimes if I'm fearful for something,
Speaker 2: I will go in head first. If it's if it's
Speaker 2: work related, then I'll have to plan ahead of time.
Speaker 2: But then there's sometimes some things that are fearful that
Speaker 2: I might just, you know, wish I could go put
Speaker 2: my head in the sand and kind of be buried,
Speaker 2: right and kind of be like a what's it like
Speaker 2: an Ostrich? Right, they put their head in the sand.
Speaker 2: Give me an example of that of running away from something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would be something that you have to
Speaker 1: put your hand in the sand and go, I don't
Speaker 1: want to know?
Speaker 2: You know, when I was thinking about what am I
Speaker 2: scared of? Yeah, people might find this week, But something
Speaker 2: that I really am fearful of is is going broke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's out of money.
Speaker 2: And that comes from my childhood. Everything that was thrown
Speaker 2: at me as a kid. Yeah, earn, you have to earn.
Speaker 2: You're gonna go broke. You're gonna broke, You're gonna be
Speaker 2: a bum. And it was always like that growing up.
Speaker 2: So now you know, anytime Emily comes home with a
Speaker 2: pair of shoes or something, what runs through my head
Speaker 2: is we're gonna run out of money. And I'm thinking
Speaker 2: I got a wife and five kids that I find
Speaker 2: myself responsible for. Yeah, So to get back to your
Speaker 2: question a little bit, when it comes to money, actually
Speaker 2: avoid it. So if there's some bills to be paid
Speaker 2: or something that's you know, it takes me, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of hits me from the side, and it's something unexpecting.
Speaker 2: Then I get really worried and I kind of put
Speaker 2: it to the side, and I have a pile of
Speaker 2: bills to pay on my desk that Emily can't get
Speaker 2: after me for. So, for whatever reason, that's not something
Speaker 2: I attack head on. That's something I kind of hide from.
Speaker 1: That sounds stabilitating, and I totally totally understand that. Similar
Speaker 1: to me growing up with nothing and working my ass
Speaker 1: off and building you know, what we have in my life.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 1: I've had thoughts of failure, and the way I turned
Speaker 1: it around was, well, I've been there already. I've been
Speaker 1: there with nothing, and if I had to go back
Speaker 1: and do it again, I've been there. I recognize it.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not fun. But I'm confident that I
Speaker 1: can rebuild because I've built what I have and who
Speaker 1: I am today. A lot more confident now, obviously because
Speaker 1: I have the history of working my ass off and
Speaker 1: doing whatever it takes to support family, support myself and
Speaker 1: do the things I want to do. But now in
Speaker 1: my fifties, that's kind of reduced. I don't want to
Speaker 1: start over. I don't want to have to go back.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you know you've been there and you
Speaker 2: know you can get out of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But do I want to do it at
Speaker 1: fifty I don't think so.
Speaker 2: It's like I've been attacked by a dog. Maybe I'll
Speaker 2: be scared of that happening again, but I know I can.
Speaker 2: I can survive it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, be so bad, right, Gosh, there's so many
Speaker 1: examples we can talk about now. I have had two
Speaker 1: fears or phobias my entire life, and I was recently
Speaker 1: able to eliminate one. Both fears are One was a
Speaker 1: fear of needle actual like you know, syringe needles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the other was a fear of spiders. Now, where
Speaker 1: I got the fear of needles probably comes from either
Speaker 1: the dentists or going to you know, shoddy doctors when
Speaker 1: I was little, and when they poke you for whatever
Speaker 1: vaccine or medicine or whatever, especially in your teeth, like
Speaker 1: when they poke you and they hit the nerve or
Speaker 1: they hit the bone, or they hit something, and as
Speaker 1: a kid, it's traumatizing. It is so traumatizing. Absolutely, So
Speaker 1: I think that's why I feared it, and fortunately it
Speaker 1: worked out. I look at it positively. It worked out
Speaker 1: well for me because in my early twenties, when I
Speaker 1: was really getting into bodybuilding and working out, and you know,
Speaker 1: watching all these guys around me that are just you know,
Speaker 1: biceps are as big as my head and their bodies
Speaker 1: are giant and enormous, and I'm looking at I'm admiring
Speaker 1: them because I use that as motivation. But in the
Speaker 1: back of my head, I'm like, maybe I should do
Speaker 1: some drugs, maybe I should do steroids, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to look like that. And fortunately the fear of
Speaker 1: needles is what stopped me. I just did not want
Speaker 1: to deal with the needles I and I thank god
Speaker 1: in hindsight, you know, because of what I know today,
Speaker 1: you know, the side effects and the risks and everything
Speaker 1: that's involved with that lifestyle. It just wasn't worth the
Speaker 1: risk for me. So that's the one fear I actually
Speaker 1: got over in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: So but for your fear of needles, you really would
Speaker 2: have gone down that direction in your pursuit of you know,
Speaker 2: weightlifting and being fit. That really kind of that was
Speaker 2: the that drew the line for you.
Speaker 1: I thought, yes, I have to say yes, and I
Speaker 1: thought you were going. I mean to ask me the question, like,
Speaker 1: if that wasn't a fear, would you have done it?
Speaker 1: I probably would have because I was so into bodybuilding
Speaker 1: and I wanted to get the results. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if I was to go back. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean there was obviously other side effects that you know,
Speaker 1: as a kid, people talk about it makes you smaller.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But when you're a kid, you're invincible, right yeah,
Speaker 2: and you believe everything you're.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad. I am glad I didn't do that.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I learned a big lesson
Speaker 1: in my life, and that's you can get over a
Speaker 1: lot of fears. And the way I got over this
Speaker 1: fear was when I was in the hospital for almost
Speaker 1: a year with my heart issue, you know.
Speaker 2: My APIs And what year was that? How recent was that?
Speaker 1: It was in twenty eighteen and I found myself in
Speaker 1: the hospital. I got three oblations and like seven cardio versions.
Speaker 1: But every time I went in, you know, they had
Speaker 1: to take my blood, so the nurse would I would
Speaker 1: sit down and the nurse would look you know about
Speaker 1: this big old needle, and I literally had to do
Speaker 1: this to force myself to look at that needle going
Speaker 1: into my vein. And after about six or seven of those,
Speaker 1: I got over it.
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, I could do that. That might go
Speaker 2: for many things, Right, if you have a fear of
Speaker 2: skydiving and you do it six or seven times, you
Speaker 2: might overcome it, right, Yeah. Yeah, And I guess you
Speaker 2: had a greater good, which was becoming healthy. So becoming
Speaker 2: healthy you had to set that aside because you wanted
Speaker 2: the end results, right, So you had no choice in
Speaker 2: a way, or you did have a choice and you chose,
Speaker 2: you know, becoming healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think it goes back to my theory of fear, Right,
Speaker 1: if I fear something, and like I read that that
Speaker 1: definition fear to me has always been sort of sort
Speaker 1: of a negative connotation, like if you fear something, how
Speaker 1: do you get over it? How can I win this?
Speaker 1: Because I'm not gonna let fear win. So I could
Speaker 1: have made the choice of you know, just covering my
Speaker 1: eyes or looking the other way while they're taking the
Speaker 1: blood and getting through it. But I forced myself. I
Speaker 1: made the conscious choice to say I'm gonna look at
Speaker 1: this needle going inside me with the whole goal of
Speaker 1: getting past this fear. I don't like to be afraid
Speaker 1: of anything, and the one thing I'm still afraid of
Speaker 1: is spiders, of all things.
Speaker 2: Well, that's very interesting. So at first I thought you
Speaker 2: meant you just got used to it, and so it
Speaker 2: normalized it for you and you were okay with it.
Speaker 2: But you're saying you actually made a conscious effort to accept,
Speaker 2: you know, what you had to go through and be,
Speaker 2: and you leaned into it, and you you embraced it
Speaker 2: in a way, in some way. Yes, that's that's much
Speaker 2: more fascinating actually.
Speaker 1: With the goal in mind to get over it, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's I can't figure out why I was even
Speaker 1: afraid of needles. I mean needles, people getting needled all
Speaker 1: the time, you know. So it was an unnecessary fear, right,
Speaker 1: and that's probably where spiders fall in, an unnecessary fear.
Speaker 1: But looking back to see what I why I was
Speaker 1: afraid of spiders, it might have been when I was
Speaker 1: a kid and I was watching some stupid horror movie
Speaker 1: about giant spiders and it's scared of living hell.
Speaker 2: Me Like, okay, who wants to be with a spider
Speaker 2: pretty ugly. Yeah, I'll support you in that, In that
Speaker 2: fear you choose to get over it, I'll help you
Speaker 2: with that too.
Speaker 1: I you know, every time I see somebody handling a tarantula,
Speaker 1: it drives me insane. I just I see that it's possible,
Speaker 1: but I just don't know if I could cross that
Speaker 1: that barrier, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's not limiting your life in any way either, right, Needles.
Speaker 2: You could argue it might if you choose to walk
Speaker 2: away from it, because you might not get the treatment
Speaker 2: you're looking for. But spiders, is that really stopping you
Speaker 2: from pursuing anything? No?
Speaker 1: No, In fact, I've taken a how do I put this,
Speaker 1: I've taken a path where I when I do see
Speaker 1: a spider, I try to help it get back into
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's nature. You know, if it's in
Speaker 1: the house, I'll get a cup or something and you know,
Speaker 1: help it and get it out. So it makes me
Speaker 1: feel good and it kind of makes me reduce my
Speaker 1: fear of spiders. But you know, then you find these
Speaker 1: images of the spiders they have in Australia that are
Speaker 1: as big as your head. And yeah, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: help that one that's gonna be dead. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: my machine gun and I'm gonna shoot the hell out
Speaker 1: of that thing.
Speaker 2: So your fear of needles reminded me of something which
Speaker 2: is a fear. Although I never classified it as a fear,
Speaker 2: it was always a worry. I was always worried about
Speaker 2: becoming addicted to things. So an example of being addicted
Speaker 2: to energy drinks. So nothing gets energy drinks. In fact,
Speaker 2: I wish I could take them sometimes or use them sometimes,
Speaker 2: but I worried that that'll be my go to. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's become very dependent on an energy drink at the
Speaker 2: morning and afternoon and at night rather than just relying
Speaker 2: on my own self. So I've never had a sip
Speaker 2: of energy drink for that reason. And it's actually because
Speaker 2: I fear that I don't have the self discipline to
Speaker 2: overcome getting addicted to it. And the saying goes for medications.
Speaker 2: So I have a gold I have stones in my
Speaker 2: gollbladder and they activate, and when they activate it it's
Speaker 2: pretty bad. It's a lot of pain. And they can
Speaker 2: give you vike it in for it, and I took
Speaker 2: it once and I was like, oh no, wonder why
Speaker 2: people love this. You know, it's like threw the stones.
Speaker 2: I don't care about that. Stuff was really good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you feel really good. Yeah. I never went back and
Speaker 2: got another prescription for it again. I control it with
Speaker 2: my diet and everything. I was fearful to just always
Speaker 2: go get VICINGDF vike, a Viking or whatever painkiller they
Speaker 2: provide me, and then I become dependent on that and
Speaker 2: then now addicted to it. So I stayed away from
Speaker 2: that and learned other ways to accommodate my Goldblader stones.
Speaker 2: But that's another story.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're saying that you actually were
Speaker 1: afraid of being addicted as the fear of addiction. That
Speaker 1: totally makes sense to me, and that's one of the
Speaker 1: biggest reasons why I like to practice abstinence, and I've
Speaker 1: done it for many years. There was a period of
Speaker 1: time when I was running my dad's law firm, and
Speaker 1: I would bring in, you know, cases of Monster or
Speaker 1: Red Bull or some energy drink, and we would be
Speaker 1: ultra productive for three straight weeks, and then I would
Speaker 1: take everybody off of it. We won't be very productive
Speaker 1: that week. But that practice, I think allowed me to
Speaker 1: have a sense of control because I could understand that that.
Speaker 1: I guess, fear of addiction is a real thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've witnessed it in various circles, from you know, being
Speaker 1: addicted to drugs to being addicted to alcoholic to being
Speaker 1: addicted to anything. Really, it's a real thing, and I
Speaker 1: can see the fear in that, Like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to get caught up in that, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be dependent on anything. Do you drink coffee?
Speaker 2: No, I don't drink coffee. I just never I've never
Speaker 2: had an appeal to it. I've never cared for it.
Speaker 2: And my thinking would be the same because I do
Speaker 2: see a lot of people drink coffee the morning, my wife,
Speaker 2: my father, a lot of people around me, and I
Speaker 2: provide it, you know, if they want to come, and
Speaker 2: I'll run the errands and go grab them stuff. So
Speaker 2: I'm not against it, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: lecture them. But yeah, I see the dependency on it,
Speaker 2: you know, Emily, as most people can't function until they
Speaker 2: have that morning coffee, and it's it's worrisome, you know, Emily.
Speaker 2: To be fair, Emily was very, very dependent on her
Speaker 2: coffee when she had her hip problems. She had a
Speaker 2: lot of hipochronic pain, so that would help her get
Speaker 2: through it. And we didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 2: I just always tease her for being so dependent on
Speaker 2: it and I and it worried me. Yeah, she had
Speaker 2: her hip replacement and she recovered. She's not so dependent
Speaker 2: on them right now. Now she enjoys it. She certainly
Speaker 2: will get it every morning. But if for some reason
Speaker 2: our schedules are off and she's not allowed to run
Speaker 2: down to her Pete's coffee and grab it, she can
Speaker 2: actually survive the morning, which is really refreshing. And the
Speaker 2: abstinence that you had mentioned is really commendable because you're resetting, right,
Speaker 2: You're getting back to the roots and feeling your body
Speaker 2: and making sure that you're okay without it. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I know my father does that with coffee about once
Speaker 2: a year. He'll go two weeks without it just to
Speaker 2: tell himself that he has not dependent on it. Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's definitely a psychological tool for me to
Speaker 1: be able to have a lot of self control, because
Speaker 1: what I do know about life is I can't control
Speaker 1: everything outside of me. But if I can control my desires,
Speaker 1: my addictions, my weaknesses, whatever I can control about me
Speaker 1: my thoughts, which are hard to control. You know, thoughts
Speaker 1: are going to come in. I have no responsibility, But
Speaker 1: what you do with it is what you can control.
Speaker 1: So what do you use to give you energy? Where
Speaker 1: do you get your energy from?
Speaker 2: You know this might sound corny, but I just I
Speaker 2: have a lot of responsibilities with the family and my kids,
Speaker 2: and my concern on a daily basis is they're well being.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to make it like they're better
Speaker 2: than other children. And I don't mean their well being
Speaker 2: like they have, you know, nice clothes and fancy things,
Speaker 2: but just that they're well rounded and become independent. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I have my oldest daughter's now twenty four,
Speaker 2: soon to be twenty four, and she's married, and my
Speaker 2: concern was always that she would get to that point
Speaker 2: where she's now and a very independent person and not
Speaker 2: having to call me all the time for things, not
Speaker 2: because I don't want her to call me, but because
Speaker 2: I want her. You know what, if I'm not around
Speaker 2: one day, right, I don't want her to have a
Speaker 2: troubled life. And I don't want to be in my
Speaker 2: seventies and my kids are struggling with just being you know,
Speaker 2: self reliant. So every day I wake up, actually every night,
Speaker 2: I go to bed thinking about that the next day,
Speaker 2: what do my kids need and making sure they're okay.
Speaker 2: And then I wake up and it's just go, go,
Speaker 2: go go. It's it's homework, it's it's disciplined with school,
Speaker 2: it's you know, how they treat each other. It's making
Speaker 2: sure they have all the things that they need. You know,
Speaker 2: my second daughter in college, and I call her about
Speaker 2: if I don't hear from her sooner about every other
Speaker 2: day to make sure she's okay because she's she's got
Speaker 2: a little bit of a transition period going on right
Speaker 2: now that she's struggling with. So that's my motivation is
Speaker 2: just constantly thinking about them and what they need. And
Speaker 2: that's the only thing that kind of gets me going.
Speaker 1: And that's interesting. I've had a lot of friends share
Speaker 1: those emotions because it sounds like it's a psychological strength
Speaker 1: of yours that you utilize to keep you motivated. Right,
Speaker 1: it's not physical. You're not drinking anything, You're not you know,
Speaker 1: injecting yourself with anything. You're not really doing anything physical
Speaker 1: to give you that energy that you need to keep
Speaker 1: powering through your day to accomplish what you need to
Speaker 1: accomplish so that you fulfill call it your fear right
Speaker 1: to to say, Okay, I did great today and I'm
Speaker 1: not afraid tomorrow's another day.
Speaker 2: Y I do it right.
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of fears. When I was
Speaker 1: part of Entrepreneurs organization, I was surrounded by a lot
Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs and it was sort of like half of
Speaker 1: them were driven by fear, the fear of failure, the
Speaker 1: fear of having no money, the fear of you know,
Speaker 1: not making it, and then the other half were driven
Speaker 1: by success like like seeing progress right, Meaning they didn't
Speaker 1: use fear as a tool or an emotional tool to
Speaker 1: drive them because it was more debilitating to think about
Speaker 1: the fear than it was to just power through and
Speaker 1: think about all the great outcomes that you're going to
Speaker 1: have and not let fear hold you back. Does that
Speaker 1: make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. And some people, you know, they want to
Speaker 2: be the best at something and that might be their
Speaker 2: motivating factor, right, or some people, yeah, scared of I'm
Speaker 2: sure there's billionaires out there that always think they're going
Speaker 2: to go growth, so they're always striving for more and
Speaker 2: more and more. Right, because it's we're going to be enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I remember my dad used to say this to me.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a lawyer thing, but he used to always,
Speaker 1: you know, motivate himself by by fear. And some of
Speaker 1: the comments would he would say, or what we started
Speaker 1: talking about, where we're not going to make peril this week,
Speaker 1: I guess we're going to be living in our cars,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not living in my car. Dad.
Speaker 2: What was his thinking when he would say that? Though?
Speaker 2: Was his thinking to Was he really thinking that to himself?
Speaker 1: I think that was his motivation. The fear of living
Speaker 1: in your car, or the fear of failure or not
Speaker 1: having enough money to you know, to pay the bills
Speaker 1: or you know, to keep the wolves away from the door.
Speaker 2: Right, that really was a concerning at he really him
Speaker 2: we might be living in our car next week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what motivated him. I never understood it,
Speaker 1: but I get it, but I never understood it. I
Speaker 1: just I don't like the feeling of being debilitated by anything, right,
Speaker 1: And the only thing I can think of right now
Speaker 1: the top of my head would be like if somebody
Speaker 1: was standing in front of me with the gun pointing
Speaker 1: at me, and my family. I don't know what I
Speaker 1: would do. You know. The default reaction would be like, hey, everything,
Speaker 1: you can have whatever you want. You can have all
Speaker 1: my money, you can have all my cars, you can
Speaker 1: have all my shit. Just leave my family alone, you know.
Speaker 1: And would I be scared? Hell yeah, I would be scared.
Speaker 1: I don't know how I can get over that, right,
Speaker 1: because I'm scared for my family. I'm not afraid for me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Also, I'm the kind of guy that will go jump
Speaker 1: out of an aeroplane just for fun, even though it's
Speaker 1: scared of living hell out of me. Right, But I
Speaker 1: don't do it because it affects my wife in a
Speaker 1: negative way. She had two things in life that she
Speaker 1: didn't want me to ever do well three. The third
Speaker 1: one is obvious, you know, it's infidelity. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do that. I can control that. But the other
Speaker 1: two or jumping out of an airplane and skydiving and
Speaker 1: riding a street bike. Now I got away with the
Speaker 1: street bike thing because we made a deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the deal? Was there just some safety
Speaker 2: measures to.
Speaker 1: Be taken or the honestly, it's gonna be it's gonna
Speaker 1: sound ridiculously dumb, but.
Speaker 2: Not if it helped you overcome it, or it helped
Speaker 2: her overcome it. So what was it?
Speaker 1: The deal was when she was off the show for
Speaker 1: two years, I think she was asked to go back.
Speaker 1: And around that same time, my youngest son, Spencer, was
Speaker 1: trying to have a relationship with his dad and they
Speaker 1: ended up. I think his dad ended up getting Mahrley Davidson.
Speaker 1: I mean, my son never rides a bicycle. Why would
Speaker 1: he be a freaking motorcycle?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And we get the receipts and the all that stuff
Speaker 1: and the mail delivered to us, and she looks at
Speaker 1: me like, did you get a motorcycle without telling me?
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I would never do that, you know,
Speaker 1: I would never do that for you. And that gave
Speaker 1: me the opportunity, long story short, to stay, well, he's
Speaker 1: got a motorcycle. How come I can't get a motorcycle? Right?
Speaker 1: And then she says, I'll make you a deal if
Speaker 1: you let me, if you agree to go back to
Speaker 1: the show, you can get a motorcycle. So okay.
Speaker 2: So with the quick pro crow was you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll kind of let something slide that I'm not okay
Speaker 2: with if you let something slide that you're not okay with.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, the scariest thing about riding a street bike
Speaker 1: was riding it on a freeway. It scared the living
Speaker 1: hell out of me. And it only took riding the
Speaker 1: freeway two or three times when I realized it's the
Speaker 1: safest place to be because everybody's going the same direction.
Speaker 1: Grant it. You know, we're going seventy eighty ninety miles
Speaker 1: an hour, but everybody's going the same direction, so it's
Speaker 1: a safer than crossing the streets.
Speaker 2: Going through a green light, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or somebody. Most accidents happen, you know, from stupidity,
Speaker 1: you know, the writer doing stupid shit, and the other
Speaker 1: is you know, accidents where somebody just turns in front
Speaker 1: of you. And that's how shit happens. When I'm writing
Speaker 1: on the street, I don't do anything stupid. I write
Speaker 1: really slow and very defensive. But on the freeway I
Speaker 1: feel good. I can go eighty ninety miles an hour
Speaker 1: and I still feel safe even though all the other
Speaker 1: cars around me are going the same speed. But it
Speaker 1: took me a while to get there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was scared. I was really afraid. So you've
Speaker 2: overcome quite a bit. Then you've you've not been scared
Speaker 2: of being fearful. Right, you tried to sing it on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a stereo type of men that are
Speaker 1: not afraid.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Do you view that as a as a current situation
Speaker 1: with our men today are younger men or is this
Speaker 1: a you know, generational thing like when we grew up,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole you want something to cry about,
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you something.
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, I'm not crying.
Speaker 1: That's how I grew up. Anyways.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's funny because when generally speaking, when
Speaker 2: we raise kids, if a little girl falls down and
Speaker 2: skins her knee, what do we say, oh, princess, it's okay. Yeah,
Speaker 2: When a boy falls down, what do we say? Generally
Speaker 2: we say walk it off, It's okay. Scars and all
Speaker 2: that stuff. Right, And so you can't help but say
Speaker 2: that that has an effect when they're older. You know,
Speaker 2: when the girl gets hurt emotionally or physically, you know
Speaker 2: how they're how they view it versus the male how
Speaker 2: he views it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, if you were to swap those two and
Speaker 1: you raised the boy like a princess, and a girl like,
Speaker 1: you know, a man up. Would you have you seen
Speaker 1: kind of have you met anybody like that? Like I've
Speaker 1: met some pretty tough chicks.
Speaker 2: Like Yeah, you know, I don't I don't know. It
Speaker 2: have to make a difference, right, I mean it's nature
Speaker 2: versus nurture, right, Yeah, it's a combination of both. So
Speaker 2: what we're talking about nurturing and and how you raise them,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's kind of scary to think
Speaker 2: about how much influence a parent or an adult has
Speaker 2: around a child. Yeah, I mean, you can make them
Speaker 2: think and feel just about anything. And that's that's what
Speaker 2: I was talking about earlier. I always get concerned that,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be the one that
Speaker 2: causes them harm or damage later on in life. You know,
Speaker 2: we have a lot of power. So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess it would be a lifelong experiment, right to
Speaker 2: raise your children ways and see, but then, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's something we want to experiment with.
Speaker 1: But it's so unpredictable though, because the kids that we
Speaker 1: have today are not the same kids when they were little.
Speaker 2: I know, I would agree with so a whole.
Speaker 1: Different some of them actually swap. You know, the boys
Speaker 1: a little bit more sensitive than the girl, and the
Speaker 1: girls like, you know, I don't care, Dad, I can
Speaker 1: handle it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I got a daughter, my daughter, Annabelle,
Speaker 2: who's now twelve. We I mean, of all five of
Speaker 2: my children, we would all agree that she's the fearless one, right,
Speaker 2: see that. I don't know we see that. But she
Speaker 2: came out of the woob like that. Oh really, I mean,
Speaker 2: as far as we could tell, she was always like that.
Speaker 2: It's not like we said, walk it off or here,
Speaker 2: here's a dirt bike. Let's learn. She just on her own,
Speaker 2: would climb things, fall, get hurt, and get back on.
Speaker 2: We have, you know, two boys, and they're quite the opposite.
Speaker 2: I mean, same house, same parents, same everything, same everybody.
Speaker 2: I don't know for.
Speaker 1: Whatever we do, so I don't get it.
Speaker 2: So I do know that Emily, you know, really loves
Speaker 2: having mama boys. Right, So she love her boys, and
Speaker 2: we argue and kind of have a little debate how
Speaker 2: much of a part, and she's like, well, they're my boys.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'm thinking yeah, But
Speaker 2: then she gets mad at me, saying there are a
Speaker 2: bunch of whims. You got to toughen them up. I'm like,
Speaker 2: quit puddling with them in bed, and when they cry
Speaker 2: and they want to sleep with you, quit doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then maybe we can toughen them up. But when
Speaker 2: when you know? So, they're twins, right, we have twins.
Speaker 2: And this year the school year, I wanted them in
Speaker 2: separate classes. The decision. I went to the teacher or
Speaker 2: the principal and said, I want them in separate classes.
Speaker 2: They give the twins the option, so they allowed parents
Speaker 2: to decide if they want them together or not. I
Speaker 2: didn't know that. I learned that over the last few years,
Speaker 2: and I thought, okay, my last their last teacher said
Speaker 2: one more year, she goes I would advise one more year.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the reasonings, but she did that, so
Speaker 2: I honored that because she was a teacher. Then the
Speaker 2: next year, which was fourth grade, I made a decision.
Speaker 2: I told the school separate classes please, and interesting, one
Speaker 2: of them was not having it, plaining, crying, and I
Speaker 2: kept telling Emily, no, he's got to learn, because there
Speaker 2: is all the more reason why they're in separate classes.
Speaker 2: Exactly what happens lo and behold magically they go in
Speaker 2: the same class. I find out when one of the kids,
Speaker 2: one of them, it was Luke, who was all excited
Speaker 2: he was going to the other classroom and I'm like
Speaker 2: what And then mom called to school and had them together,
Speaker 2: and so you know, Mom, I know you'll have to
Speaker 2: tease her next time you see her. So you know,
Speaker 2: did she baby them? Yes? Can I say that that's wrong? No?
Speaker 2: I disagreed with it. Yeah, but you know, to sit
Speaker 2: here and say it's wrong. And I don't really know.
Speaker 2: Maybe it would have gone the other way around. Maybe
Speaker 2: he would have been overly depressed and really focused on
Speaker 2: his schooling. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I did disagree with that. I thought, here, you are
Speaker 2: yelling at me to toughen him up. Well, yeah, taking
Speaker 2: him from one classroom to the next so he can
Speaker 2: be with his little brother.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's hard only because I've seen my
Speaker 1: kids evolved and done different things, and you know, just
Speaker 1: the and they're still growing into who they are as characters. Right,
Speaker 1: they have a whole life ahead of them. And I
Speaker 1: say that because I'm the same but the different person today.
Speaker 1: You know that I was when I was younger.
Speaker 2: Well, I imagine we're the same but with much more experiences
Speaker 2: and ability to make decisions. Right, But that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: we don't think differently, Like the same thoughts come through
Speaker 2: our head, the same fears. Like you you still you
Speaker 2: know you have a fear of fighters, yeah, or needles,
Speaker 2: let's use needs that. You know you have a fear
Speaker 2: of needles. Yeah, but you've overcome it, right, so you
Speaker 2: you didn't really, you just changed the way you approach it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And there's another thing that's kind of happened to me
Speaker 1: in my old age. I'm a lot more empathetic I can.
Speaker 1: I take the perfect example is road rage. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was younger, I'd get pissed off, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'd cut them off or i'd make a point. Nowadays,
Speaker 1: I understand people have shit going on there in their lives.
Speaker 1: And if you cut me off, whether it's or on purpose,
Speaker 1: as long as there's no accident or you made me
Speaker 1: do something, you know, like have my own accident, then
Speaker 1: we don't have a problem. Just let them go, you know,
Speaker 1: let them be. You don't know what their situation is.
Speaker 1: There's no reason for me to aggravate myself or or
Speaker 1: you know, make it a bigger deal than it is.
Speaker 1: But when I was younger, it's a whole different story,
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, oh yeah, you better believe it was.
Speaker 2: I'm very much there with you. I rarely use the horn,
Speaker 2: and I teach my children. I'm like, I used to
Speaker 2: use it all the time. I don't know, maybe they didn't.
Speaker 2: They don't see that it's a you know, they don't
Speaker 2: see Maybe I don't see what's ahead of them, you know,
Speaker 2: like they want to make a right turn. I don't
Speaker 2: see what's ahead of them, So maybe I should be
Speaker 2: so quick to judge, and then a lot of the
Speaker 2: pedestrian there or other times it's just like I said,
Speaker 2: it's not is this really going to solve the problem
Speaker 2: by me getting after this person? Are they really going to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, have a come to Jesus moment and sit
Speaker 2: there and think, hey, I better be you know, more
Speaker 2: of an obadi and driver. No, so you're right, you
Speaker 2: let it go. Plus, we've heard stories at our age
Speaker 2: you never know who that person is that you're gonna know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the other thing I was just
Speaker 1: gonna mention is there's been many times I pulled into
Speaker 1: my neighborhood and there's this person driving like an idiot,
Speaker 1: and I just either want to, you know, rip around
Speaker 1: him or honk on them. And then I realized he's
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood, and you know, really, he's probably gonna
Speaker 1: be three degrees away from my neighbors. They're going to
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I don't want to be the jerk,
Speaker 1: so I have to hold myself back, like, just chill out,
Speaker 1: slow down, it's okay, there's no rush here.
Speaker 2: I would agree with you on the road rage. I
Speaker 2: think that's a really good example that might be a
Speaker 2: lot of men as they get older, they realize, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not that big of a deal, and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to get any get there any slower, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, you know another thing is how many times
Speaker 2: if I cut someone off I don't even know? Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: So I might be that person, and I'm grateful that
Speaker 2: you're not honking at me if I cut you off unintentionally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: You fear that I do have, but I never really
Speaker 2: had to experience it. And I've told this to many people,
Speaker 2: but I don't have to experience it. Is it's bears,
Speaker 2: bears Okay, there was to be scared of, it would
Speaker 2: be a bear. Because a crocodile allegator, you could jump
Speaker 2: on a table, right, these you could probably Yet, they
Speaker 2: say you can run, zig zag or whatever. Right, you know,
Speaker 2: dogs you could probably fight off somewhat, right, I mean
Speaker 2: that don't mean you won't go with injury. But you
Speaker 2: have a chance with a bear. What can you do?
Speaker 2: You can't dimb a tree, you can't even probably hide
Speaker 2: in your closet or a car. You can't run faster
Speaker 2: than them, they say, the only thing you can do
Speaker 2: is run down hill Because bears their rear legs or
Speaker 2: paws are shorter than their front so they have difficulty
Speaker 2: running down hill. But how I don't have I'd have
Speaker 2: to search for a hill to run down, so just
Speaker 2: getting to that hill would be a problem. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean if I could even make it that far. But
Speaker 2: I've always thought if there's some animal to be scared of,
Speaker 2: it would be a bear. And they say, what do
Speaker 2: they say to do when you encounter a bear?
Speaker 1: What are you to play dead?
Speaker 2: Wait? Hell, you know, good luck? I'm sorry. I can't
Speaker 2: play dead. I will run like crazy, no way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it is scary. That's that's something I
Speaker 1: have feared when I'm out in the woods on my motorcycle.
Speaker 1: But and I've even seen videos where bears, you know,
Speaker 1: come after them and all they do is, you know,
Speaker 1: throttle it and make a bunch of noise and that
Speaker 1: usually scares them.
Speaker 2: But if there's I don't know if I could take
Speaker 2: that chance.
Speaker 1: I don't know either. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to sit there and think, well,
Speaker 2: maybe I'll bring these pots and pans and it'll run away,
Speaker 2: or instead of wasting these thirty precious seconds, I'm gonna start.
Speaker 1: Running right Yeah, Or especially if there's a cop around,
Speaker 1: like your dust, if there's a cover around, he's going
Speaker 1: to eat you just to protect their cups. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's a that's a legitimate fear. Do you know speaking
Speaker 1: of bears, that in California they outlawed bear spray. You
Speaker 1: cannot buy bear spray. When I went to Montana on
Speaker 1: a on a motorcycle trip, it was everywhere, I mean every.
Speaker 2: Story that was out everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when I came home, and I don't remember
Speaker 1: how we were talking about bears, I said, well, just
Speaker 1: get some bear spray. I mean it's I I discovered
Speaker 1: it in Montana. I try to order it. They wouldn't
Speaker 1: deliver into California.
Speaker 2: A large canister of probably intense like pepper spray or something.
Speaker 2: But it's large and it's sprayed like and then far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean if it if it diverts a bear,
Speaker 1: it must be pretty poete. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't look into that deep, but I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: just you know, take my guns away and my bear
Speaker 1: spray away.
Speaker 2: Burglars will use that if there's a dog, that'll incapacitate
Speaker 2: the dog.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wonder if that's one of the thinkings.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't know what California law thinks.
Speaker 2: So you do in Utah. In Utah, there were bears
Speaker 2: when we lived there, and there were bear attacks and unfortunately, jeez, fatalities.
Speaker 2: It was It wasn't common, but it certainly happened my
Speaker 2: time there.
Speaker 1: Do you have any fear of flying, particularly in what's
Speaker 1: going on right now with all these planes falling out
Speaker 1: of the sky.
Speaker 2: So I have I do have a fear of flying,
Speaker 2: but it's never stopped me from traveling anywhere. There's always
Speaker 2: that concern that the planet would down, but I know
Speaker 2: statistically it's very unlikely, so I shouldn't be worried. And
Speaker 2: oddly enough, one thing that I have done over the
Speaker 2: past five years is I read a lot about airplanes.
Speaker 2: I've read a lot about crashes, disasters, why they happen.
Speaker 2: I've watched a lot of videos. My daughter Annabel started
Speaker 2: watching it with me, and she really enjoyed it. She
Speaker 2: would I would always try to make a with it, right, like,
Speaker 2: this is what went wrong, this is this is why
Speaker 2: they You know, the pilot shouldn't have left the child
Speaker 2: in the cockpit. Believe it or not, that's a story.
Speaker 2: So all these different things I would stare they're okay,
Speaker 2: as we'll get something good out of it. So she
Speaker 2: goes flying with Emily to Ohio and Emily has a
Speaker 2: very big fear of flying. I don't know. We don't
Speaker 2: even like to sit next to each other when she's
Speaker 2: flying because she is she is a mess. So she
Speaker 2: flies to Ohio calls me when they land to get
Speaker 2: upset with me because apparently Annabel, who was like nine
Speaker 2: at the time, I think. So when the stewardess or
Speaker 2: the flight attendant's going over like some of the things.
Speaker 2: And the flight attendant's done with all the basic emergency
Speaker 2: precaution and instructions, walks by and Annabel raises her hand
Speaker 2: and says, I have a question, and the flight tens
Speaker 2: says yes. She goes, what do we do in the
Speaker 2: case of a nose dive? And Emily says the flight
Speaker 2: attendants like mouth is dropped. That doesn't not just shouting
Speaker 2: out what do we do in the event of those dives?
Speaker 2: So this is prior to her like five hour flight, right,
Speaker 2: so just on edge, yeah, and thinking about yeah, but
Speaker 2: she's also not scared. This little girl's thinking, hey, if
Speaker 2: our plane starts to go straight down, what do we do?
Speaker 2: You know? And it's just like, just let me know
Speaker 2: what I'm supposed to do, you know.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we do that a lot and and and
Speaker 2: I still do. I read a lot about it. I
Speaker 2: love the idea of flying. Yeah, you know, we went
Speaker 2: and flew on A friend's husband has a she six
Speaker 2: fifty and he flies it though, so he holds it
Speaker 2: and he flies it, right, Okay, So when we went
Speaker 2: somewhere a year or two ago, whenever it was, I
Speaker 2: wasn't in the back taking photo, was with all these
Speaker 2: ladies that want to get the ex fancy. So as
Speaker 2: I was up in the cockpit in the jump seat,
Speaker 2: oh awsome, that was a treat. That was really something.
Speaker 2: And so here I am kind of scared of flying,
Speaker 2: but I am facing it because I know statistically it's
Speaker 2: it's just unlikely, you know, so I kind of think
Speaker 2: I shouldn't be scared, even though so I am.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I don't think I've ever been afraid of flying,
Speaker 3: because the only thing I can think of is the
Speaker 3: people I've flown with that have freaked out have either
Speaker 3: looked at me for you know, comfort or weirdnness.
Speaker 1: Because I'm not afraid the planes, you know, doing all
Speaker 1: this stuff and all this weird stuff happening in the plane.
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's just what planes do. That's the big deal,
Speaker 1: right exactly.
Speaker 2: Bump in the road.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I and I, particularly with plane crashes, I
Speaker 1: try not to watch them because then I'm going to
Speaker 1: start you know. It's kind of like that fear of addiction.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have that thought because it's an image I've seen,
Speaker 1: and if I'm on a plane, I might revert back
Speaker 1: to that image that I saw that may or may
Speaker 1: not happen.
Speaker 2: Right, So I go with Emily, who's an example of
Speaker 2: someone that has a fear of flying. While she's flying,
Speaker 2: I know what she's doing. She's thinking of crashing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so of course you're scared. She's thinking, we're gonna crash.
Speaker 2: We're gonna crash, We're gonna crash, We're gonna crash. And
Speaker 2: then so naturally you'd be scared. You know. I reminded
Speaker 2: of a time I flew to Colorado, and I can
Speaker 2: tell you what year it was. It was in oh
Speaker 2: oh eight. So, landing in Colorado and Denver, Windy city, right,
Speaker 2: the plane kind of going sideways and this and that
Speaker 2: and rock in a little bit, landing next to an
Speaker 2: airplane that had crashed landed.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So out the window, I'm looking and we see off
Speaker 2: to another runway and like right in front of us
Speaker 2: that is just mashed into the ground. The wings are
Speaker 2: off and everything's just the fuselages is broken up. And
Speaker 2: it was like, oh that was It was kind of comical, right,
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, I saw this plane
Speaker 2: crash just yesterday, and here I am landing right next
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: So that that would be kind of scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So American Airlines flight is going from I think
Speaker 2: it was that land er somewhere in the US across
Speaker 2: seas had a divert to Rome with fighter jets escorting them,
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of video footage of it. You
Speaker 2: can find it because there was a bomb scare. It
Speaker 2: ended up being not an issue, but there was a
Speaker 2: bomb there, so two fighter jets were flying alongside it
Speaker 2: to escort it to Rome. Now, how would you feel
Speaker 2: if you had a window seat and you see two
Speaker 2: fighter jets that are escorting you because there's a supposed
Speaker 2: bomb on board that may go off.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure they didn't tell anybody why they were diverted, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know. More scary? Why do I have these
Speaker 2: fighter jets? Are they all?
Speaker 1: The first thing I would think is terrorism? There's something happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would probably scare me a little.
Speaker 2: I think that's the hell out of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that and that that kind of
Speaker 1: reminds me of a fear that I just remembered I
Speaker 1: had recently recently, as I want to say six years ago,
Speaker 1: I went mountain biking to Big Bear and I hadn't
Speaker 1: been there in a while. And you know, when you're
Speaker 1: skiing and you get on the lift and you look down,
Speaker 1: everything's white, so there's no real perception of death or
Speaker 1: height or anything like that. But when you're on a
Speaker 1: dry land and you're on this chair and you look down,
Speaker 1: it's pretty far. And for some reason I started getting scared,
Speaker 1: like panic attack scared, and I'm like, what is wrong
Speaker 1: with me? I'd never ever been afraid of heights. In fact,
Speaker 1: I love heights. I love going to the tallest building
Speaker 1: in the world and looking down to me, that's that's
Speaker 1: just powerful, it feels it makes me feel confident. Why
Speaker 1: am I afraid of this right now?
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you're you came across the stair
Speaker 2: because you were thinking about falling. You're thinking, if I fell,
Speaker 2: I canfue I fall this far, there's trees or whatever,
Speaker 2: there's rocks, and yeah, bring yourself falling, and then yeah,
Speaker 2: hell yeah, that's scary.
Speaker 1: And of course the why is is it because I'm
Speaker 1: getting older that I'm starting to fear these things? Is
Speaker 1: this going to start happening with other things? Because I
Speaker 1: don't like to be scared, and if I am scared,
Speaker 1: I try to flip it and use it as energy
Speaker 1: to get over the fear. Right. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: why sometimes I say I thrive on fear, the fear
Speaker 1: of failure. I will push myself to the edge as
Speaker 1: hard as I can, so I don't fear the fear
Speaker 1: of pain. You know, I will figure out a way
Speaker 1: around it or even push through the pain because I
Speaker 1: know on the other side of that is no pain. Right.
Speaker 1: So maybe that's just the way I'm wired.
Speaker 2: But well, certainly a quality that you should embrace. But
Speaker 2: when you're on a chair lift, what could you do
Speaker 2: to the fears you're kind of not so, Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: understandable that maybe you felt I don't have control, I
Speaker 2: could fall. There's nothing I can do about it, right,
Speaker 2: I can't step away. I can't. I can't, you know,
Speaker 2: secure myself any further in any way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the complicated part is I've never ever had
Speaker 1: that fear because I've been I've done that that the
Speaker 1: chairlifts on on the summer, riding my mountain bikes in
Speaker 1: various places, and I've never ever been afraid to.
Speaker 2: Get sweats or shaky or anything, or I.
Speaker 1: Got little scared. I got shaky, Yeah, like stop looking
Speaker 1: down kind of thing, where like normally I'm looking at
Speaker 1: for fear enjoy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you been on that lift since I have?
Speaker 1: I have. Again, It's one of those things that it
Speaker 1: scares me, but I'm going to keep doing it until
Speaker 1: I'm no longer scared. And it worked and I think
Speaker 1: I ended up getting like three or four runs that day.
Speaker 1: But it was just a weird feeling to think, how
Speaker 1: forty fifty years later am I feeling fear. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: be fearing fear. I mean, this is just the way
Speaker 1: I handle fear, you know, I thrive on it sometimes
Speaker 1: and I don't like it to debilitate me, so I
Speaker 1: try to convert it to energy.
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. You know what's interesting would be a
Speaker 2: statistic on how many people actually suffer death from the
Speaker 2: thing they feared the most. Right, It's probably very little. Right,
Speaker 2: Like I might be scared of a bear my whole
Speaker 2: life and I never come across one. I never so
Speaker 2: what so I wasted whatever time it was being scared
Speaker 2: of a bear or fear of flying. But you know,
Speaker 2: you could spend your whole life being scared of flying,
Speaker 2: but you never really have an airline crash on you
Speaker 2: so right, you know, it's like we're scared for I
Speaker 2: guess you could say no reason when there's probably things
Speaker 2: that were not fearful of that are actually going to
Speaker 2: cause us some harm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fear debilitates a lot of people from living their life,
Speaker 1: you know, fear of you know, when you start a business,
Speaker 1: like you're afraid to start a business because you're afraid
Speaker 1: that you're going to fail. And you don't start a
Speaker 1: relationship because you're afraid you're going to get hurt. You
Speaker 1: don't have kids because you're afraid you're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to afford them, and you know, various things
Speaker 1: like that. Do you do you fear love at all?
Speaker 1: Have you ever been afraid to fall in love?
Speaker 2: No? I don't. I don't think I can. I know
Speaker 2: I never really thought enough about love to be scared
Speaker 2: of it. I never really did, I mean, I guess yeah, no, No.
Speaker 2: The fear as far as family goes, The fear of
Speaker 2: my children is worry that they will grow up with
Speaker 2: trouble or difficulties, or they might have their own addictions
Speaker 2: or things that are you know, you know, prevent them
Speaker 2: from living a life of you know, comfortable life, that
Speaker 2: would be it. I don't fear, you know, falling in love.
Speaker 2: I guess I do have concerns that Emily would. You know,
Speaker 2: if Emily and I were to part ways, I certainly
Speaker 2: wouldn't like that, so I wouldn't do everything I could
Speaker 2: prevent that from happening. I know, coming on the show,
Speaker 2: Emily joining the Housewives, I guess you could say I
Speaker 2: had fear of that because you know, statistically and historically
Speaker 2: you see families fall apart on the show. Whether it's
Speaker 2: coincidence or the show or how they handle it, I
Speaker 2: can't say, but it does happen. My concern was for
Speaker 2: her to then maybe take her life in a different direction,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm better than this, or getting a big head,
Speaker 2: or wanting to be gone so much to pursue whatever
Speaker 2: opportunity to come her way that she wouldn't be around
Speaker 2: us anymore. Yeah, those were my concerns, and I did
Speaker 2: express that to her, and that was that was my
Speaker 2: main concern about the show, was family unit. And I'm
Speaker 2: very glad that that didn't end up being the case.
Speaker 2: And it certainly didn't stop me from allowing it didn't.
Speaker 2: It didn't cause me to prevent Emily from being on
Speaker 2: the show, nor could I write I mean that she
Speaker 2: make that decision for her solely. But that was a
Speaker 2: very big worrisome for me. And that's why the first
Speaker 2: couple of years I wasn't very comfortable on camera. Wasn't
Speaker 2: because of the camera, was because I was just really
Speaker 2: on edge about where is this going to go?
Speaker 1: Right? That makes sense, and that that was it.
Speaker 2: And then fortunately we've overcome that and realized that that's
Speaker 2: not the case, and so you know, we're able to
Speaker 2: navigate her being on the show and being a part
Speaker 2: of all the ladies and everything, you know, during this time.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, if anything, it's made us stronger
Speaker 2: because we've worked together on how how to navigate this,
Speaker 2: how to navigate her schedule, the opportunities that come our away,
Speaker 2: how do we work, what parts do we team up on,
Speaker 2: what parts are just for you?
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I could see that, and I think
Speaker 1: when we first got together, my wife and I, the
Speaker 1: camera didn't scare me. I think I remember talking to
Speaker 1: you about taking acting classes when I was younger, so
Speaker 1: cameras weren't totally you know, foreign, and they still kind
Speaker 1: of put me.
Speaker 2: You know they're there. Yeah, you know they're there.
Speaker 1: Now, I know they're there. But in the beginning, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I remember telling you this, but well,
Speaker 1: first time we ever filmed, I was all gonna ready
Speaker 1: to go. I'm like, I could do this. I've been
Speaker 1: on camera before, you know this. It's going to be
Speaker 1: easy and just be myself. How hard can that be?
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until the production walked into the house
Speaker 1: and they all introduced themselves very nice, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: these big ass cameras walked in and I looked at
Speaker 1: it and I turned white. My wife said, I backed
Speaker 1: myself against the wall and I said, I can't do this.
Speaker 2: It became real at that point.
Speaker 1: I guess it became real and I just remembered I
Speaker 1: was actually afraid. And of course, seven shots of tequila
Speaker 1: later and I think half a bottle of wine that
Speaker 1: took away all the fear, and I did stupid shit.
Speaker 1: That was the very first time we ever filmed where
Speaker 1: we did the tub scene. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: remember the tubs. Yeah, it was just I mean, where
Speaker 1: do you go from there? Right? But that's a moment
Speaker 1: I was I was actually afraid of when when I
Speaker 1: first got on the show, Yeah I was afraid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, there's I don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think if anyone said they weren't afraid to be on
Speaker 2: a show, I don't know if I would believe them.
Speaker 2: There might be different levels of concern and worries them
Speaker 2: in fear, you know, fear how they look on TV.
Speaker 2: Fear if they are going to get along, if they're
Speaker 2: going to be liked or hated. There's got I mean,
Speaker 2: no one can say that it's jump in and got
Speaker 2: no problems with it.
Speaker 1: I think ultimately though, it's how you handle them right,
Speaker 1: how you handle fear, because it's it's up there with jealousy.
Speaker 1: Jealousy is an emotional feeling, irrational emotional feeling that sometimes
Speaker 1: can you know, be quantified. If your wife or your partners,
Speaker 1: you know, flirting or something, or trying to make you
Speaker 1: jealous so that they like you more. I guess it's
Speaker 1: a manipulation tool. But when I was young, I made
Speaker 1: a determination that I am not going to let jealousy
Speaker 1: get the best of me. And I have thought even
Speaker 1: if I am jealous, I'm not going to show it
Speaker 1: because it's just going to produce negative emotions and negative results.
Speaker 2: Experience some jealousy, and then it was then that you
Speaker 2: realize what you were experiencing, and so you made that
Speaker 2: effort to, you know, stay away from that.
Speaker 1: I think so which which goes along in the same
Speaker 1: lines as fear, you know, And I don't know how
Speaker 1: old I was when I finally realized fear is stabilitating
Speaker 1: and if you let it cripple you, you're not going
Speaker 1: to do anything in life, or experience anything in life,
Speaker 1: or really live life. You know, I sense I see
Speaker 1: fear as a limitation for people that just absolutely sometimes
Speaker 1: it's justifiable. You know, Let's say you had a traumatic
Speaker 1: experience when you were young. This is this is probably
Speaker 1: a terrible example, but let's say you were molested when
Speaker 1: you were young, you know, continually molested, and it becomes
Speaker 1: sort of a normal thing, and then you grow up
Speaker 1: as an adult and you become a pedophile because of
Speaker 1: what happened to you, and you think it's normal when
Speaker 1: in reality it's it's not a normal thing, and society
Speaker 1: is not going to accept that. But do you fear
Speaker 1: that society is not accept it, or do you fear
Speaker 1: that you're going to get caught? Go to jail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess fear would be acceptable if it's for your
Speaker 2: own safety, right, So it's fear of you know, like
Speaker 2: in your example of maybe growing up in an unfortunate
Speaker 2: household where there's abuse, So now you're prospective of your
Speaker 2: just your safety. Yeah, so I'm going to stay away
Speaker 2: from this type of person because I've experienced that they
Speaker 2: hurt me physically or they harm my lifestop right, not
Speaker 2: just they hurt my feelings so they said something rude,
Speaker 2: but they actually debilitate me from living a life. Right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, speaking of fear, though, we have
Speaker 2: a we had we have a foster dog and uh,
Speaker 2: which I imagine will not be a foster dog. But for
Speaker 2: now I'm like, I'm like, he's trying to sell me
Speaker 2: on it being a foster on. It's our third dog
Speaker 2: that we have right now. Oh my gosh, very very
Speaker 2: scared of everything. Okay, six months old. We believe never really,
Speaker 2: I'm guessing based on her behavior, never experienced human interaction,
Speaker 2: at least good human interaction with you know, compassion and whatnot.
Speaker 2: And it's and she is always protecting herself. She's running
Speaker 2: away from me. She never turns her back on me
Speaker 2: or Emily. She's stopping up to Emily now. But she's
Speaker 2: very fearful and and it's it's natural for her, right
Speaker 2: because she's experienced things that might cause her harm and
Speaker 2: injury and death. So she's doing what she can to
Speaker 2: stay alive. It's right, it's just survival. So it's it's
Speaker 2: based on her experiences. And there's no doubt in my
Speaker 2: mind that she's just trying to stay alive, right, not
Speaker 2: that she's you know, a whim right whatever, experienced abuse
Speaker 2: or whatever it was. She's trying to stay alive. And
Speaker 2: so I guess humans can you know, if we're if
Speaker 2: I've experienced, you know, being injured by a weapon, and
Speaker 2: so now I choose to stay away from that weapon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's be pretty valid.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's that is valid. Yeah, going back to love,
Speaker 1: which is kind of along the same lines of what
Speaker 1: we were just talking about. For me, I think I
Speaker 1: fell in love for the first time as a teenager,
Speaker 1: my first girlfriend. I was madly in love and I
Speaker 1: was afraid, you know, because growing up to me, love
Speaker 1: was so important and so valuable and so sentimental and
Speaker 1: you just cannot fall in love with just anybody, right,
Speaker 1: it's like marrying. You can't just marry anybody. You got
Speaker 1: to marry somebody that you can spend the rest of
Speaker 1: your life with, or somebody that you love. So when
Speaker 1: I fell in love, it was it was awesome. I
Speaker 1: thought she was going to be the one for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life.
Speaker 2: And what.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a fear. It wasn't a fear. But when
Speaker 1: she broke up and we broke up, the pain was
Speaker 1: so deep and so emotional and so detrimental that I
Speaker 1: said that I am never falling in love again.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And it took seven years for me to finally fall
Speaker 1: in love again, fell in love with this beautiful woman
Speaker 1: that just was everything that I know ever wanted. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: five years later that relationship ended and again debilitating. I
Speaker 1: couldn't leave the house for three days. I was in
Speaker 1: the fetal position and I cried, and it was the
Speaker 1: hardest pain I've experienced next to my broken collarbone.
Speaker 2: And then and how did you overcome either of those?
Speaker 1: I think, Well, my dad, you know one thing I'll
Speaker 1: never forget he said during that time, was just get
Speaker 1: up and put one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 1: And you will get past it. And it took time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it definitely took time. But again the second time, I
Speaker 1: was heartbroken, devastated. I said, I'm never falling in love again.
Speaker 1: But I it was in my probably my mid twenties
Speaker 1: at the time, and I decided, you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to look for love anymore. I'm just going
Speaker 1: to be partying, having a good time, working.
Speaker 2: And take care of yourself kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Care of myself.
Speaker 2: You won't bring anyone in your little circle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I fell in love again and it
Speaker 1: wasn't deep love, but it was sort of like I
Speaker 1: don't know if I is the right person, you know.
Speaker 1: And even though I didn't fall in love with her,
Speaker 1: I introduced her to all my friends, especially the very
Speaker 1: critical ones that you know, just protect me, and they
Speaker 1: loved her. They said she's amazing, she's so different, she's awesome.
Speaker 1: And I ended up marrying her. The night before I
Speaker 1: was freaking out and just like, am I doing the
Speaker 1: right thing? I don't know. I was literally sitting on
Speaker 1: the floor just contemplating my life, and she came to me,
Speaker 1: She's like, are you sure you want to do this?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know? When everyone wants to hear.
Speaker 1: And of course that didn't last very long. And then
Speaker 1: when I met Tiamra, it was one of those things
Speaker 1: like that's it. I'm not falling in love, not falling
Speaker 1: forward again. I'm just gonna have a good time. And
Speaker 1: the chemistry was there. What I think I experienced the
Speaker 1: very first time I saw her was love at first sight,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't ready to let it happen. But when
Speaker 1: I saw her, I saw birds, I saw stars, I
Speaker 1: saw out all these tingly feelings in my body, but
Speaker 1: I did everything I could to suppress it because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be vulnerable like that again. Right. And
Speaker 1: the other part of it is she was married at
Speaker 1: the time, So why am I going to pursue something
Speaker 1: that I'm not gonna, you know, be able to have?
Speaker 1: But why am I getting these feelings? It was such
Speaker 1: a weird situation. And it wasn't until not even you know,
Speaker 1: when she left her husband and we went on a
Speaker 1: first date. It was probably just before, like a month
Speaker 1: before we got married, you know, leading up to it,
Speaker 1: planning and everything. You know, It's about a year of
Speaker 1: all that and I'm just going through the motions. I'm
Speaker 1: like yeah, I guess I'm getting married. But I think
Speaker 1: it was when I was sitting at the altar looking
Speaker 1: at her that it hit me like, holy shit, I'm
Speaker 1: in love. This is happening. And what I've experienced in
Speaker 1: my life at the end of the day is I'd
Speaker 1: rather be in love and feel the pain of breaking
Speaker 1: up than never ever feeling love. Because what I know
Speaker 1: now in my fifties is even today, my love just
Speaker 1: gets getting deeper and deeper with Tama. The more time
Speaker 1: I spend with her, the more challenges we have with life,
Speaker 1: and the more things we experienced together, It's bringing me
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper connected with her. Where I'm getting back,
Speaker 1: I think, close to that level of love when I
Speaker 1: first experienced it as a teenager, where I thought like
Speaker 1: I found that this is the greatest feeling in my
Speaker 1: life and.
Speaker 2: Right you're completely fulfilled and everything's great. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm there now, but it took a while
Speaker 1: to get there, which is the interesting journey for me,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not afraid to fall in love, but I
Speaker 1: was afraid when I was younger because it was so painful,
Speaker 1: and there was a period of seven years between love
Speaker 1: and another period of five years between love and then this
Speaker 1: one was maybe fifteen years where I started feeling like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can trust this person. I can open up to
Speaker 1: this person and give my heart and be vulnerable and
Speaker 1: talk to her and you know, share her, you know,
Speaker 1: with her what really scares me and what I really
Speaker 1: want to accomplish in life. And I say that because
Speaker 1: you know, there's this this stereo type. But men being men,
Speaker 1: men are not supposed to be afraid of anything.
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to cry. You're not cry.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to cry. You're not supposed to be afraid.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be vulnerable. What are you? What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Do you agree or disagree? No?
Speaker 2: I agree? You know we talked to earlier. You know,
Speaker 2: you tell the little kid to walk it off, get
Speaker 2: back on your bike and go, you're fine, tough it
Speaker 2: out right, and then the girl don't. We don't generally speaking,
Speaker 2: we don't say that, we put a band aid on it.
Speaker 2: We hug them, you know. In that so it's understandable
Speaker 2: that you would grow up not you, you, but men
Speaker 2: in general would grow up thinking we're not supposed to cry,
Speaker 2: and women won't like that, right, if I sit there
Speaker 2: and cry on my third date with whomever, I don't
Speaker 2: think there's going to be a fourth date. Right, that's
Speaker 2: what we're thinking, Right, She's like, maybe that's not the case.
Speaker 2: But then that begs the question do our women taught that, Hey,
Speaker 2: you know, men shouldn't be crying. He's weak. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, I was married prior and
Speaker 2: without finding she left, and she left and moved out
Speaker 2: of state and took my two kids. And it was
Speaker 2: heart breaking for you, Oh yeah, because I there was
Speaker 2: no plan. It was just they were gone. It's different
Speaker 2: if it's hey, this is what I want my life,
Speaker 2: I'm going to leave you and I'm going to move there,
Speaker 2: and you know we figured it out. But that wasn't
Speaker 2: the case. It was they were gone, and that probably
Speaker 2: as we're talking about, this is probably what my worry
Speaker 2: was with the family unit when Emily got on the show.
Speaker 2: Maybe I would have had that concern anyway, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure I was thinking, I'm going to lose my kids again.
Speaker 2: Right if you move, you know, you leave me and
Speaker 2: this and that the family breaks up. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to see my kids. Saying yeah, so that was you know,
Speaker 2: there's no doubt in my mind that that caused a
Speaker 2: lot of worry for me. With the family unit being
Speaker 2: broken up again. It was it was a pretty bad experience,
Speaker 2: you know, at that time, and not seeing your kids
Speaker 2: for a couple weeks, not knowing where they are and
Speaker 2: trying to find them, and then and then having to
Speaker 2: transition back into that and so, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 2: and I know Emily and I have I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's a secret. We've had times where we
Speaker 2: think we want to split up or this and that
Speaker 2: because we're just in some heated moment, and then we
Speaker 2: both start to think, is this what we want? Do
Speaker 2: we We've been trade one set of problems for another,
Speaker 2: So do we want to lose our kids? We want
Speaker 2: to break up the family? And then we kind of
Speaker 2: come to terms. And I know, I'm a big believer
Speaker 2: in just kind of trying to work it out and
Speaker 2: keep the family together. And that might have to do
Speaker 2: with what I've experienced before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think the difference in your religion scared
Speaker 1: you getting into the that deep of religion of a
Speaker 1: relationship with Emily.
Speaker 2: A little bit? Because you know, you worry about being
Speaker 2: judged or or you know, having different outlooks on life.
Speaker 2: But you know, fortunately, I think both of us have
Speaker 2: the same outlook on life, which is family is important,
Speaker 2: family in it, and respecting each other and kind of
Speaker 2: you know, living a you know, kind of a decent
Speaker 2: life and respecting one another's views. I know Emily, as
Speaker 2: she's gotten older, she's kind of softened up and become
Speaker 2: a little bit you know, as we all should.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: And so you know, it hasn't really caused any riffs
Speaker 2: in our relationship, that's for sure. Yeah, sometimes scheduling issues
Speaker 2: and things like that. You know, I go to church
Speaker 2: on Sundays. Sometimes she comes, sometimes she doesn't. I just
Speaker 2: let her and I always take the kids. So you
Speaker 2: know that that's a little awkward on those days because
Speaker 2: but but we respect each others, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's super important in any relationship, is
Speaker 1: to respect each other because once you lose that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to come back to that. Let's talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about your experience and becoming a lawyer.
Speaker 1: I know you took the bar three times. Were you
Speaker 1: ever afraid that you weren't gonna make it or were
Speaker 1: you just determined Yeah, that.
Speaker 2: Was It was a little bit of both. You know,
Speaker 2: it was pretty determined, but I also was fearful that
Speaker 2: it would never happen. Not to blame, not to place
Speaker 2: blame elsewhere, But it was really tough while this show
Speaker 2: was going that I'm supposed to sit there and also
Speaker 2: juggle my older two kids and their schedules with their mother,
Speaker 2: who which was not the easiest. So juggling that juggling
Speaker 2: you know what was she three or four year old
Speaker 2: daughter with you know, two year old twins. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then my wife's were rigorous schedule and me having to
Speaker 2: quit my job and then prepare and finances, as we've
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, it was very hard on me. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, for that reason, I thought, I'm never going
Speaker 2: to pass because under these circumstances. Yeah, at least for me,
Speaker 2: under these circumstances, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like looking at Mount Whitney and going,
Speaker 1: how the hell am I going to do this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless I'm going to do something different, which is
Speaker 2: all those factors. Unless I remove some of those, like
Speaker 2: you know, Emily's at home all the time, or our
Speaker 2: finances are in order, or the mother my older two children,
Speaker 2: was more cooperative, like then what might have been eating?
Speaker 2: But I was like, nothing's changing. I'm still going to
Speaker 2: go through this hellhole, you know. And Emily's sit in there,
Speaker 2: you know, when I'm supposed to kind of a comedy
Speaker 2: in her schedule to take care of the kids. And
Speaker 2: and I'll blame on Emily. She was doing what she could.
Speaker 2: But it was, Yeah, it was very worrisome that I
Speaker 2: would never pass. And I'm just going to be this
Speaker 2: endless you know, I'm in this endless pursuit of getting
Speaker 2: a bar license and it never happened. I had one
Speaker 2: in Utah, but I didn't have one in California. So
Speaker 2: it was it was And the other fear was embarrassment. Sure,
Speaker 2: there's away embarrassment, you know, being in feeling inferior. You know,
Speaker 2: there's people that have been in worse conditions in my
Speaker 2: that pass, right, so it can be done, and here
Speaker 2: I am not being able to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you did it. Yeah, And and what
Speaker 1: do you think contributed the most for you to accomplish
Speaker 1: that goal to pass the bar?
Speaker 2: You know, it was it was just kept putting to
Speaker 2: you know, I'll be honest, I don't think I did
Speaker 2: anything different as I should have. I was really first
Speaker 2: of all, it was quite a while ago, so so
Speaker 2: my memory is a little vague, but it was just,
Speaker 2: you know, they did change the the the guidelines of
Speaker 2: the bar exam, which kind of worked in my favor
Speaker 2: as much as you know, I don't want to say that,
Speaker 2: but it did work in my favor. So that kind
Speaker 2: of gave me the little edge I needed. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: certain I would have eventually passed, but nonetheless that that's
Speaker 2: where I was. So it was it was a scary time.
Speaker 2: It was a scary time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've you. I always thought about this when I
Speaker 1: was working with my dad, like the fear of going
Speaker 1: to court. Do you go to court a lot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I didn't hear that. I have a
Speaker 2: fear in terms of just doing well. Yeah, we're doing
Speaker 2: well for the client, doing well for for the owner
Speaker 2: of the law firm. Yeah. But I'm not scared in
Speaker 2: front of a judge, because.
Speaker 1: Were you though the very first time? Thank you the
Speaker 1: first case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could, I could. I was nervous. I was
Speaker 2: practicing in Utah and I was thrown in judges all
Speaker 2: the time. Oh, that's right, okay, but it was it
Speaker 2: was I was nervous yacause you know, you feel people
Speaker 2: are looking at you and now you're going to look
Speaker 2: like a beginner. You don't know what you're doing, you know,
Speaker 2: you don't know the proper terminology, right, and you sound
Speaker 2: like an idiot. That was a concern, But in front
Speaker 2: of it, because of the judge, I was not scared. Now,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there're people so yeah, they really are.
Speaker 1: Course, I know pretty.
Speaker 2: Much lawyers that don't want to be lawyers, right, don't
Speaker 2: they know better? And you know, have I been depart
Speaker 2: by judge in front of people? Absolutely? Really? Oh wow,
Speaker 2: I think everyone has. Absolutely. Yeah, And that's more embarrassing
Speaker 2: than it's fearful. That for me, that's embarrassing. And that's
Speaker 2: like sister, she's overcome it, but she I think she
Speaker 2: would even vomit before she went before a judge. Oh
Speaker 2: really really scared. Yeah, but she also would admit it.
Speaker 2: She wasn't hiding. Yeah, And but I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2: Then a few years go by, you know, we kind
Speaker 2: of you know, she's doing her thing, I'm doing mine,
Speaker 2: and I don't really connect with her on that level.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, I realized, Oh, she's
Speaker 2: going to court and she seems fine. She's picking court calls,
Speaker 2: she's doing it online, she's going in person, so she
Speaker 2: overcame it somehow. I should find out how she did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting times. My neighbor's an attorney as well,
Speaker 1: and I see a lot of him, you know, during
Speaker 1: the day, you know, because I have a pretty easy schedule.
Speaker 1: And I asked him recently, like, didn't you go to
Speaker 1: court anymore? It's like, zoom, I don't even have to
Speaker 1: get us anymore. That would take fear completely away. Like
Speaker 1: just the thought of being in chambers and fighting, you know,
Speaker 1: with the opponent and talking to a judge that scares me,
Speaker 1: like that would drive me. It spins my head. But
Speaker 1: I also see that, you know, once you've done that
Speaker 1: a few times, like anything else, you become very proficient
Speaker 1: at it and the fear goes away and now you
Speaker 1: know what you're saying doing And that just takes practice, right,
Speaker 1: practicing law right.
Speaker 2: Well, they always say you fear what you don't know, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So if you've been there, you've experienced it many times.
Speaker 2: You've ridden your bike on the freeway many times. Now
Speaker 2: it's no longer an unknown to worry about.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So speaking of do you, did you ever fear
Speaker 1: being a lawyer or was that just something you always
Speaker 1: wanted to do?
Speaker 2: Well? I kind of kind of went that direction because
Speaker 2: my parents would let me become a cop. Okay, Like literally,
Speaker 2: I interviewed, I took the exams, I took the physicals.
Speaker 2: I even got you know then as a you know,
Speaker 2: for PDI and Orange, and then I had to back out,
Speaker 2: probably cut mostly because of my parents and you know,
Speaker 2: them having a worry and they were always scared and
Speaker 2: they didn't like it, and probably they want me sending
Speaker 2: in an office and YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 2: maybe if I really really wanted it, I should I
Speaker 2: could have done it, But you know, I made the
Speaker 2: choice to back out. So I was fearful of my mother.
Speaker 2: We could say.
Speaker 1: That's a big deal.
Speaker 2: If if if in my profession, what was I fearful of?
Speaker 2: It would probably be being successful, you know, whole good job,
Speaker 2: earning more money every year doing them, not in front
Speaker 2: of the judge or in front of a client or
Speaker 2: co workers or anything.
Speaker 1: Were you at all concerned or afraid of starting that
Speaker 1: podcast with your wife. I think it's called Legally Brunette.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, No, my wife is, I mean Emily Is.
Speaker 2: She loves that stuff. She could talk about it all
Speaker 2: day long. She she overworks to study those cases and
Speaker 2: learn the facts, you know, the interesting cases that are
Speaker 2: kind of you know, across the media, high profile. So
Speaker 2: I knew that she would take the lead on that,
Speaker 2: and I think she does really well. And my place
Speaker 2: in that I've learned was I'll just be the viewer
Speaker 2: that asks the questions, right, Okay, I'm asking the questions
Speaker 2: that the viewers want to know. So I go in
Speaker 2: she has more of the knowledge, and then I asked
Speaker 2: these lay term questions, right, and I answer those questions,
Speaker 2: and so we have a good connection that way. Here
Speaker 2: she is presenting the cases talking about them, and then
Speaker 2: I asked the questions on when I think is on
Speaker 2: behalf of the viewers, because you know, you can get
Speaker 2: really legally in the way you talk, so it's kind
Speaker 2: of breaking her down. Yeah. So no, we do well
Speaker 2: with that, and that that's enjoyable for me.
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome. How often do you do that?
Speaker 2: It's twice a month. Yeah, we're doing twice a month
Speaker 2: and right now she's covering the Blake Lively and Baldoni case.
Speaker 2: That's a big one. I don't know if you know
Speaker 2: that one. I'm sure viewers do. That's a big one.
Speaker 2: There's some pr disputes and creative differences on the set
Speaker 2: of it ends with us, and so there's some sexual
Speaker 2: harassment allegations and things like that. It's getting pretty heated.
Speaker 2: I think with Blake Lively being such a big star,
Speaker 2: that's caught a lot of attention from people. The other
Speaker 2: case that she's doing that, we like to cover the
Speaker 2: Menendez trial. Okay, so she's doing that. I'm sure you've
Speaker 2: heard that one.
Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, there's a whole documentary on that.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of documentaries on that. So she's fascinated
Speaker 2: by that one because that is interesting. The case is
Speaker 2: where you know, you could kind of go either way.
Speaker 2: You do both points, and that's what makes it interesting
Speaker 2: to talk about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you fear it at all? About practicing law?
Speaker 2: I think disappointing clients. You know, clients, unfortunately, they naturally
Speaker 2: they come in with expectations, right, I'm going to win
Speaker 2: this case. I practice workers competations with people that get
Speaker 2: injured on the job. We represent the insurance companies and employers, right,
Speaker 2: so the injured worker gets injured, they have a right
Speaker 2: to file a claim because it's a no fault state,
Speaker 2: so the employers should cover their injuries at their work
Speaker 2: related right. So it's a right that they have and
Speaker 2: I support that. But we represent the insurance compani's employees.
Speaker 2: So you know a lot of times the employers will
Speaker 2: just without really knowing all the details, they think, no,
Speaker 2: this is this is no break. That guy's a jerk.
Speaker 2: He got hurt playing soccer on the weekend and not here.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but we got to go through this
Speaker 2: process to get that if that needs in the case.
Speaker 2: So disappointing clients is my concern, so I always try
Speaker 2: to give them realistic expectations. My very first case that
Speaker 2: I tried all by myself was an adoption case. So
Speaker 2: a family wanted to adopt the child and terminate the
Speaker 2: parental rights of the father.
Speaker 1: Who was an absence, which is really hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's a tough one too, because you
Speaker 2: know the emotions involved. My fear in that case was
Speaker 2: not winning because this loving family and the stepfather who
Speaker 2: just did everything for this child, and was the father's
Speaker 2: as far as I was concerned, because the biological father
Speaker 2: was Mia, like truly Mia until the case services, and
Speaker 2: of course he wants to act like he's fathered the
Speaker 2: hear and stop everything. That was my fear was then
Speaker 2: this family leaving the courtroom not having the ability to
Speaker 2: adopt the child, and then now they can't bring up
Speaker 2: this case for a number of years. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: now they're stuck in this position of now we have
Speaker 2: this biological father has been brought back into the life
Speaker 2: because of the lawsuit, and now he's causing havoc in
Speaker 2: our household. And that was I was terrified that I
Speaker 2: would lose this case. That was all on me there,
Speaker 2: I had no partners. I was working by myself, all
Speaker 2: on me, and you know, and I had never tried
Speaker 2: a case before. So I'm up there putting witnesses on
Speaker 2: the stand, asking questions, doing all this stuff, trying to
Speaker 2: prepare case. And I didn't know the threshold, you know,
Speaker 2: how much is enough? Yeah. I don't have the experience
Speaker 2: to say, yeah, we got enough evidence. Yeah, So I
Speaker 2: just had to keep going and going and going, and
Speaker 2: I probably overdid it anyway, I succeeded, But oh good,
Speaker 2: Now my fear was this family heartbreaking? You know this family?
Speaker 1: Well, how many times have you heard of cases like
Speaker 1: that where a kid of a drug induced family you
Speaker 1: know can't handle it there in jail, the kid ends
Speaker 1: up being you know, fast from home, and finally a
Speaker 1: family you know, sees the connection and raises a kid
Speaker 1: and you know, goes through all the proper channels, finally
Speaker 1: adopts a child, and ten years later the parents get
Speaker 1: out of jail, even though they obviously have to sign
Speaker 1: a release for the kid to be adopted. Now they
Speaker 1: want to be back in the kid's life. How do
Speaker 1: you how do you would you handle that?
Speaker 2: Well? I've never experienced it that much. But if the parents'
Speaker 2: rights are terminated, you can only have two parents, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So if if a if a husband will call them,
Speaker 2: if a husband wants to adopt the wife's son or child,
Speaker 2: you can. You cannot terminate a biological father's rights and
Speaker 2: parental rights without someone stepping in his shoes, right. Okay,
Speaker 2: So in your example, if I understood it correctly, you
Speaker 2: have new adopted adoptive family. Right, So a mother and
Speaker 2: father presumably a mother and father adopt the child. Now
Speaker 2: the biological parents are no longer. They have no rights anymore,
Speaker 2: right as if they don't exist, your records are stealed,
Speaker 2: everything's gone. But when the child becomes an adult, then
Speaker 2: they might choose to search out their biological father or
Speaker 2: parents to answer some questions. So I guess it was.
Speaker 2: It was a long way to answer your question. I
Speaker 2: don't think the original biological parents can come back into
Speaker 2: their lives once they're terminated. They have no rights.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting so.
Speaker 2: But but I don't have any experience in that area.
Speaker 2: And the example you gave I have not gotten that
Speaker 2: far along. When I was practicing family law too, how did.
Speaker 1: You get this case being in workers' comp.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you how so well, I wasn't a workers
Speaker 2: I was in Utah at the time, so I was
Speaker 2: practiced family law. And Emily was just like, you know,
Speaker 2: you can practice on your own. It's no problem you
Speaker 2: can do. Let's just do it. Do it on your own.
Speaker 2: So I went on my own, rented a little office,
Speaker 2: and she sent out a mailer like across the county
Speaker 2: to every house. And these cases are coming in, and
Speaker 2: this one came into adopt. I'm like have I've never
Speaker 2: done this before. She goes, yeah, I can help you.
Speaker 2: I can do that, no problem. Because she worked in
Speaker 2: family law in LA. She's like, I can help you
Speaker 2: with that. I'm like okay. Then like the next week
Speaker 2: she went and got a job. She worked for some
Speaker 2: law firm. It's like, I can't help you anymore. But
Speaker 2: it was all on my own. She never came to
Speaker 2: court with me. Nothing never came. That was on my
Speaker 2: own anyway. That was that was how that came. So
Speaker 2: and then all these cases started coming in that were
Speaker 2: family law cases, and I learned I don't law because
Speaker 2: it's too emotional. It's it's necessary, and I praise those
Speaker 2: that do it. It's an imperfect system. It can't be perfect.
Speaker 2: It's you know, you can't have a black and white
Speaker 2: letter law that that's gonna be equal across the board.
Speaker 2: I know you. I'm sure you've experienced it, know enough
Speaker 2: that it doesn't work like that. You know there's it's
Speaker 2: it's so hard. It's a brown peg in a square hole, right,
Speaker 2: or a square peg in a round hole. It's it's
Speaker 2: just doesn't work.
Speaker 1: It's arguably one of the hardest types of lot of
Speaker 1: practice is family law.
Speaker 2: No, I can't stand it. Yeah, it's just too heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: And I praise those that are able to do it
Speaker 2: because it needs to be done.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know. The thing is it's so emotionally. You
Speaker 2: get these people coming in your office just shouting out
Speaker 2: all this stuff. He did this, he did he did this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great, that's not that's not a legal argument. That's
Speaker 2: more of an emotional argument. I need little stuff, you know.
Speaker 2: Him sleeping with someone else doesn't matter, all right, crappy
Speaker 2: as that is. It doesn't matter. He's still a dad,
Speaker 2: but that's not there or the other way around. I
Speaker 2: don't want to save her a dime. Too bad. You
Speaker 2: signed up for it. That's what you got to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you have to do that to protect
Speaker 1: the family because there are some legit situations for men,
Speaker 1: you know, they especially if they own their own business,
Speaker 1: suddenly they don't make any money. Right, How does that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I can't. I tell you, I can't stand.
Speaker 1: I can't stand.
Speaker 2: I tell you, a dead beat dad is I can't,
Speaker 2: especially because I fall all the rules. I cannot stand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See that would that would drive me nuts. One
Speaker 1: of the things that my my father gave me the
Speaker 1: option to go to law school, and I just couldn't
Speaker 1: do it because there's this one part of law that
Speaker 1: I just can't wrap my head around. I understand it,
Speaker 1: and and and and and I believe it's it's a necessity.
Speaker 1: But when you become an attorney and you have to
Speaker 1: defend a criminal, or you have to defend somebody you
Speaker 1: do know committed the crime, how do you know I've
Speaker 1: never done get.
Speaker 2: Him out of it. It's a very valid thought. I've
Speaker 2: never had done criminal defense. But I know one way
Speaker 2: to look at it is so you have, you know,
Speaker 2: an obvious plea uh guilty, like oh, jay one, you
Speaker 2: never have a client you don't want to know. But
Speaker 2: if you know they did it, like let's say they yeah,
Speaker 2: I did it, I get crap out of her right, Well,
Speaker 2: then what you're trying to do is not say that
Speaker 2: the person's not that the person's innocent. You're trying to
Speaker 2: make sure that they don't get any more of a
Speaker 2: punishment than you think they're entitled to. So in a way,
Speaker 2: you're kind of controlling the system that way. It's not
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get this person off and out in
Speaker 2: the world. And say it's innocent. It's let's see if
Speaker 2: we can reduce the charges. Let's see if we can
Speaker 2: get it with in reason. And so that's and again,
Speaker 2: and how you have to look like, maybe you don't
Speaker 2: agree with the death penalty, right right, you know, you're
Speaker 2: going to try to pursue life in prison or some
Speaker 2: lesser sentence and the death penalty. Negotiate that so you're
Speaker 2: not you know, there's a big difference between not guilty
Speaker 2: and as innocent as you didn't do it, not guilty.
Speaker 2: By law, you're not guilty. So if you look at
Speaker 2: it that way, it might help.
Speaker 1: So what about those cases where they're wrongfully in farstrated,
Speaker 1: you know, And and it's going back to what we
Speaker 1: were talking about family law. It's it's an imperfect system, right,
Speaker 1: So when it comes down to it, the law is
Speaker 1: not the law. It's not like black and white. There's
Speaker 1: so many levels and moving parts, particularly with cases like
Speaker 1: the O J case where he had money, he had connections,
Speaker 1: he had yeah, and there's a lot of that, and
Speaker 1: there's always been a lot of that. You know, when
Speaker 1: it comes to one of one of my biggest pet
Speaker 1: peeves of law is you know, you try to sue
Speaker 1: big Pharma. Well, they're going to win solely because they
Speaker 1: have so much more money to outlaw you, right, or
Speaker 1: outlaw lorrier youth.
Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, to make your life hell.
Speaker 1: And it's just so hard to win those cases, even
Speaker 1: though they are responsible for what happened. So that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that.
Speaker 2: Like a casino, they're always going to win because they
Speaker 2: never run out of money. You will run out of money, yeah,
Speaker 2: they will never playing and playing and playing until you quit.
Speaker 2: And that's how it is. In your example, big Farm,
Speaker 2: They'll they'll play all day long. Yeah, and they have
Speaker 2: the means to the money too, and they're incentivized to
Speaker 2: win much more.
Speaker 1: And and they'll just hire a law firm that has
Speaker 1: one hundred lawyers that are going to work on this
Speaker 1: one case.
Speaker 2: Yeah right.
Speaker 1: And it's not fair. It's not fair, especially when it
Speaker 1: comes to discovery. I mean, you can get buried in
Speaker 1: that stupid ship.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's a first comp It's such a
Speaker 2: unique area of law procedurally that we've come across lawyers
Speaker 2: that may do very well in their niche and are
Speaker 2: very successful, and then they think that they're going to
Speaker 2: try to help their brother in this work comp case,
Speaker 2: and you know, you mop the floor with them because
Speaker 2: they just don't know how it works. And so in
Speaker 2: your example, Big if I were to try to suit
Speaker 2: Big Pharma or anyone that doesn't have the experience, it's
Speaker 2: not even a matter of money at that points, a
Speaker 2: matter of knowing what you're doing. And they know all
Speaker 2: all the tricks and the loopholes and things that you don't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's how it was with workers compleen, we get you.
Speaker 2: Oh I've done personal injury for it. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: the same thing. You might be very you might do
Speaker 2: very well in your area, but it's not the same thing.
Speaker 2: So you got a disadvantage already. And so that's the
Speaker 2: example with you know, the deep pockets, right, they have
Speaker 2: the experience.
Speaker 1: That was one of the actually, that was the main
Speaker 1: reason why when I was running my dad's practice, we
Speaker 1: made sure we focused on ho A law bankruptcy transaction
Speaker 1: of foreclosures because it's a very niche industry that just
Speaker 1: grew big time in California and across the nation, but
Speaker 1: mostly in California. There's so many hoa's here it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But I made sure my dad wanted to dabble into
Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff. I had to reel him in, like, God,
Speaker 1: Dad's get out of there. We're not doing family law,
Speaker 1: we're not doing a state planning, and we're just doing
Speaker 1: ho law. Yeah, and if we if we weren't great
Speaker 1: at that, I don't think we would have been a
Speaker 1: successful as we were because the firm did really great.
Speaker 2: You know. Really just have to find one thing and
Speaker 2: excel in it, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, it'd be really
Speaker 1: really good at that one thing. Except when it comes
Speaker 1: to medicine. I'm not a doctor or anything, but you know,
Speaker 1: I believe that a doctor should know how all the
Speaker 1: body parts work together, you know, instead of sending you,
Speaker 1: you know, to seven doctors for one ailment that just
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense absolutely.
Speaker 2: Or they should have a team maybe they collectively, right,
Speaker 2: so they kind of work together, so it's like you
Speaker 2: know what I'm I'm not a specialty. I'm not a
Speaker 2: specialist the cardiovascular, but my partner right here is, and
Speaker 2: then they can work together instead of it going to
Speaker 2: another office and trying to find someone and yeah, you
Speaker 2: should have one one stop shop, right you should?
Speaker 1: Yeah, where you know, everybody's communicating and talking to each other.
Speaker 1: My other pet peeve with the pharmaceutical or the doctor
Speaker 1: the healthcare industry is they'll put you on a drug
Speaker 1: that's going to result one issue. Then that drug creates
Speaker 1: other issues, so they have to put you on another
Speaker 1: drug to fix that issue. So that's just perpetual.
Speaker 2: The classic example. The classic example is, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: Emily gets a UTI right and my daughter both at
Speaker 2: you time. They're like, here, take this antibiotic, but it
Speaker 2: will cause a yeast infect so now take this. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, yeah, yeah, it's just it's I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but I don't get it. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I think that's it. I think we talked about being afraid.
Speaker 1: You know, I coming into this conversation, I didn't know
Speaker 1: what I was going to really say. Because I thrive
Speaker 1: on fear. I make it a point that if it
Speaker 1: scares me, it's it's worth the pursuit or worth the fight.
Speaker 1: If it's not scary, it's kind of like, eh, I
Speaker 1: don't really you know, I'm not that interested. And I
Speaker 1: was really curious to see you what you thought where
Speaker 1: your stance on fear is because I know this generation
Speaker 1: nowadays are very sensitive and you know, the men today,
Speaker 1: you know, they're okay with crying in front of people,
Speaker 1: and I just don't see that. I don't see that
Speaker 1: as as as what it takes to be a man.
Speaker 1: For example, you're in a situation, a precarious situation with
Speaker 1: your family, and it doesn't make sense to me that
Speaker 1: the woman has to step up and take care of
Speaker 1: the family when the man should be standing up for
Speaker 1: his family and not being afraid of anything, right. So
Speaker 1: it just it spins my head to imagine or even
Speaker 1: witness a man standing behind his woman while the woman
Speaker 1: is taking charge and you know, making shit happen. You know,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason that is.
Speaker 2: I would agree with you on that, and maybe that's
Speaker 2: a pride thing, but I try to I try to
Speaker 2: be the leader in the family right and take take
Speaker 2: things on myself to try to be a that way.
Speaker 2: But you know, one thing I got out of this podcast,
Speaker 2: that's for sure, is to try to face my fears
Speaker 2: more so rather than just like you know, like the
Speaker 2: plane example, not just going on a plane and trying
Speaker 2: to be okay with it and thinking I shouldn't be scared,
Speaker 2: but actually kind of lean into it like you did
Speaker 2: with your fears. Yeah, so you know, I'm gonna that
Speaker 2: next fear I have that I come across, I think
Speaker 2: I'll try to take it on as a challenge to
Speaker 2: overcome it and maybe kind of fine tune it and
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, be superior that way.
Speaker 1: Well, give me, give me, give me a shout out
Speaker 1: on that. I want to hear how you did that.
Speaker 1: I'm really curious because it's it's worked for me for
Speaker 1: a long time. But like I said, what what I
Speaker 1: hate seeing is when people don't live their life because
Speaker 1: they're afraid. You know, they're afraid, especially the people that
Speaker 1: think about all the worst possible things that can happen
Speaker 1: in this one scenario. And my wife is one of them.
Speaker 1: She thinks the worst case scenario about everything. Simple. Let's
Speaker 1: go on a road trip, okay, where we're gonna suffer gas,
Speaker 1: we're gonna eat, where we're gonna stay. How much time
Speaker 1: are we going to take? You know, are we there yet? Like,
Speaker 1: oh god, it's crazy And I'll never forget this one
Speaker 1: trip we took. It was at the end of the year.
Speaker 1: It was a tough year. We were done filming and everything,
Speaker 1: and it was between Christmas and New Year's Eve, and
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm done with schedules. I'm done with calendars.
Speaker 1: I'm done with you know, you know, doing my life
Speaker 1: on a schedule. Let's just get an RB and hit
Speaker 1: the road. And sure enough, day later, I rented a
Speaker 1: little Mercedes RBS that pop outs and everything, and I said, okay,
Speaker 1: just grab a few clothes. We're just going to drive.
Speaker 1: And I don't know where we're going. We're just going
Speaker 1: to drive.
Speaker 2: Not knowing where you're going, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she was totally gun ho on board, and
Speaker 1: it blew my mind that she was. So I said,
Speaker 1: all right, let's go, got a few pieces together, jumped
Speaker 1: in the car, and just started driving north with the
Speaker 1: goal to get to I think Yosemite was one of
Speaker 1: my goals. As we're driving, we get in I think
Speaker 1: it was Ventura County, and we both realized we didn't
Speaker 1: bring any food.
Speaker 2: We exited the freeway.
Speaker 1: Ten miles in we got to find a grocery store
Speaker 1: and we're in there walking around buying groceries. And this
Speaker 1: is like way out in the middle of nowhere, right,
Speaker 1: and the people, of course are recognized or they recognized me,
Speaker 1: and they're like, what the hell are you doing now here?
Speaker 1: Like we're just getting groceries. So we jumped back in
Speaker 1: the car back on the freeway, and as we're driving,
Speaker 1: I'm realizing, oh shit, it's winter. There's going to be
Speaker 1: a bunch of snow in the mountains. So we can't
Speaker 1: go to the snow. So where we going I don't know,
Speaker 1: but we're running out of time and we need to
Speaker 1: find a place to go, you know, part the RB
Speaker 1: for the night. So we end up in this gas
Speaker 1: station and we're trying to figure out we can go
Speaker 1: to a camping army ground or we can go to
Speaker 1: this little wow.
Speaker 2: You literally didn't plan anything, you just got anything.
Speaker 1: It was it was so much fun. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how much fun that trip was, because yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever whatever came to us, we did. And I can't
Speaker 1: remember the last time, well the last time I did that.
Speaker 1: My dad gave me a book written by Jack Cua.
Speaker 1: I think it's called On the Road. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you read it. It's a book about a kid
Speaker 1: that just you know, got on the road and just
Speaker 1: took the adventure and whatever came came you know, it
Speaker 1: was a great book, and I think it was because
Speaker 1: of that book that I wanted to do this trip
Speaker 1: because all the rest of our lives is on schedules
Speaker 1: and organized, and if it's not, it's chaos. Right, if
Speaker 1: your life is not organized, it's freaking chaos. So I
Speaker 1: just didn't want any of that at that time. And
Speaker 1: we had such a blast. We ended up going all
Speaker 1: the way to Napa Valley, and of course when we
Speaker 1: get there, we didn't realize it's winter, so all the
Speaker 1: all the vineyards are closed except for one. But we
Speaker 1: were looking for a vineyard and you know, we couldn't
Speaker 1: find when that was open, Like why are we here?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you I'm certain you experienced things that
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have had you planned.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was almost like freedom, you know,
Speaker 1: because when you're on a schedule, even though you know
Speaker 1: you have to be on a schedule an organized to
Speaker 1: make life successful and accomplishable, it felt like I was free.
Speaker 2: When you have a plan, you're you must do this,
Speaker 2: you must do that, or you're supposed to check in
Speaker 2: at a certain time. But here you are, you know,
Speaker 2: you were free to do as.
Speaker 1: You wish for you to do as I wish, and
Speaker 1: I love that. You know. I have had friends where
Speaker 1: we've traveled and they have this whole agenda. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I am not doing any of that on vacation, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just relaxing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're all when I get home. Right now, right now,
Speaker 2: I'm just gone with the flow.
Speaker 1: There's there's really something to say for that.
Speaker 2: I do commend those, and I experienced that a little
Speaker 2: bit in Utah. I don't have him any stories, but
Speaker 2: people who literally just like, now I'm just gonna go
Speaker 2: on the mountains for a week or two, yeah, you know, literally,
Speaker 2: and I'll find food. Literally. I know a guy he
Speaker 2: was he loved it. He's like, I ate snake. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just it was just hunting. And he lived
Speaker 2: out there for two weeks and he just like he
Speaker 2: said it was the best thing. I never really dug into.
Speaker 2: I wish I did, but yeah, gone already know who
Speaker 2: is anymore. But he he said the snake was the
Speaker 2: best thing here, probably because he captured it and he
Speaker 2: did it himself and it was really you know, and
Speaker 2: maybe he was hungry for it, you.
Speaker 1: Know, really hungry, right like he you know.
Speaker 2: He experienced things that he wouldn't have otherwise, and to
Speaker 2: be able to do that without any I mean that's yeah.
Speaker 2: I wish I could live a life like that sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean you can start little by little.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to go get a camper tomorrow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just you know, Emily, he's going to get in it
Speaker 2: and we'll go to the beach food.
Speaker 1: Go to the beach right here and send say Clamenty.
Speaker 1: You know, there's always I used to ride my bike
Speaker 1: there a lot, and I used to see people camp
Speaker 1: there all the time.
Speaker 2: It's a good start, yeah, yeah, just.
Speaker 1: It could be fun and then expand because that's one
Speaker 1: of my goals to get on my Harley and go
Speaker 1: across the nation one day. You know, I have to
Speaker 1: find the right people to teach me and be part
Speaker 1: of because I don't have the balls yet to just
Speaker 1: jump on it and go by myself. I thought about it.
Speaker 1: I literally thought, I'm just going to jump on my
Speaker 1: bike one day and go. But I got a wife,
Speaker 1: I got kids, now, I got a damned dog.
Speaker 2: I got to do that.
Speaker 1: But I think that would be such a fun, fun
Speaker 1: adventures just to be.
Speaker 2: I had a friend that did that from Northern California
Speaker 2: all the way down to the south of Chile on
Speaker 2: a bike.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I followed him through Facebook and it was literally
Speaker 2: just stamp wherever he would share stories of people he met,
Speaker 2: and he just improvised all the way down and then
Speaker 2: he unloaded his bike, you know, sold there whatever, it
Speaker 2: blew back up and that was a couple of months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 2: That's you next next.
Speaker 1: All right, on that note, thank you so much Shane
Speaker 1: for coming on. And it's been a real pleasure, always
Speaker 1: fun talking with you. And that's it.
Speaker 2: That's the show. Yeah, well, thank you for writing me
Speaker 2: and inspiring me on facing my fear.
Speaker 1: So guys, don't forget go listen to Legally Brunette if
Speaker 1: you're into understanding the law and you know, figuring out
Speaker 1: what you can learn. I'm always about learning, you know.
Speaker 2: So some kind of high profile celebrity type cases.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be fun to listen to.
Speaker 2: Very good. Well, thank you Eddie.
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening. That's the
Speaker 1: wrap and we will see you or hear you at
Speaker 1: the next one.