1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: The day started like any other. It's a Sunday in 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine and Francis Ford Coppola is sitting in 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: his home in San Francisco. Three things happen all at once. First, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: he sees an ad in the Sunday New York Times 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: for a new novel entitled The Godfather. Coppola thinks to 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: himself that the author's name, Mario Puzzo, sounds like an 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Italian writer of classic literature. Second, a knock at the door. 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: Two producers from Paramount, Al Ruddy and Gray Frederickson. They're 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: in town to film Little Fouls and Big Halsey and 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: want to meet the up and coming director who fled 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles for the artistic freedom of San Francisco. Third, 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: a phone call from Marlon Brando. It comes in before 13 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: the Paramount producers are even gone on He's calling to 14 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: turn down Coppola's offer to star in his passion project, 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,279 Speaker 1: The Conversation. Coppola would later remember all of these things 16 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: as a celestial alignment of forces, the first ripple of 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: foreshadowing of the project that would come to define his career. 18 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm Mark Seal and I'm Nathan King, and this is 19 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: leave the gun, take the Canoli. 20 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: Today's episode puts Francis Ford Coppola, the Godfather's enigmatic and 21 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: intellectual director, front and center. 22 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: We'll investigate Coppola's creative process, explorer, his relationship with Mario Puzzo, 23 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: and maybe even get to the bottom of the Coppola 24 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: Coppola debate. 25 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: Okay, before we start, we have to address this discrepancy. 26 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: I say Copola, You say Coppola. Who's right. 27 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've heard it both ways. 28 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: I've only ever heard it pronounce Copola. But I think 29 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: there's a like a nice Southern charm to your pronunciation. 30 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, it just rolls out of my mouth. Kappla. 31 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: I could be wrong. I stand corrected. 32 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: That's all right. I think you should keep saying Coppla. 33 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: I'll say Copola. We're not going to go back and 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: re record the podcast. Let's get into it. Mark, over 35 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: the course of reporting the Vanity Fair story and writing 36 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: your book, you were able to put together quite the 37 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: portrait of Copola. What was your process like forgetting to 38 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: know him? 39 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I did what I always do. I talked 40 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: to as many people as I could find. I read 41 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: every article, I could find about him every interview. He 42 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: had done so many interviews over the years about the 43 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: making of The Godfather that he at times said he 44 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: was tired of speaking about it, but he was kind 45 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: enough to send a lot of answers. I think answers 46 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: to forty questions are so via email, and I spoke to, 47 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: of course, his sister Taya Shier, his assistant back then, 48 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: Mona Skager, and all of the executives at Paramount at 49 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: the time, of course, had a lot to say about him. 50 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: And we even have some new audio that he was 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: kind enough to send us, especially for this podcast. 52 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Did you feel intimidated researching him and finding out that 53 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: he had talked about The Godfather so much? And did 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: you worry at all that maybe it was a fool's 55 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: errand to try and dig up any new information. 56 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: Well, no, not really, because you know, all of the 57 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: answers that he had given in the past just added 58 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: to the texture of what I was trying to do. 59 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: You know, it was a blessing that he had given 60 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: so many interviews. He gave an exhaustive, long interview to 61 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Cigar Aficionado that he pointed out to me when I 62 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: was writing the book he said, take a look at that, 63 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: and it answers a lot of questions. And then I 64 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: plunged forward and I sent him a list of I 65 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: think forty questions, and he said in the email that 66 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: he would answer the ones that interested him, and I 67 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: think he answered everyone. 68 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: So when Copola got the offer to direct The Godfather, 69 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: he was in pretty dire straits, right. 70 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, he was twenty nine years old. He was 71 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: deeply in debt. He was living in San Francisco trying 72 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: to get his production company, American Zootrope, off the ground, 73 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: but it wasn't working out very well. 74 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: You wrote in your book that it seemed like Coppola 75 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: was heading toward The Godfather his entire life. Can you 76 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about his upbringing and his background, 77 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: because he was Italian, but he wasn't Italian in a 78 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: Godfather way. 79 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: Necessary well, he was an Italian American. He grew up 80 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: in Queens, but he was born in Detroit, and the 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: family moved around a lot. But obviously they were pretty 82 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: far from Italy. 83 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: And it was a pretty creative family exactly. 84 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: His father was a floutist, a composer, a teacher, and 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: most of all a long suffering artist who felt he 86 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: was always looking for his big break. And Francis and 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: his siblings got moved around a lot as his father 88 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: moved between jobs and orchestras. 89 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: And then in nineteen forty nine, he was nine years 90 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: old and something really dramatic happened and his life changed 91 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: drastically exactly. 92 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: The family was living in Queens and suddenly Francis was 93 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: stricken with polio. He was bedridden for nine months, and 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: these nine months were really the birth of Francis Coppola 95 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: the artist. While the other kids played outside, he became 96 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: a director of sorts. He would stage puppet shows, he 97 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: would devour comic books, and his mom said that every 98 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: time she came into his room, he would hold out 99 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: his little hands like he was lining up a shot. 100 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 2: It's really interesting that so many creative people were afflicted 101 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: with sicknesses that left them bedridden as children. 102 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's the isolation of being alone. It's 103 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: not easy to be alone, but when you're forced to 104 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: be alone, a lot of things come from that. And 105 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: I think those nine months were instrumental for him because 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: he was forced to play with his own imagination. 107 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: Is that when he knew he would be a filmmaker. 108 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: I think so he was really young, but as soon 109 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: as he was healthy again, he started making movies. I 110 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: was able to speak with his sister, Taya, who told 111 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: me a wonderful story about raising money for his first film. 112 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: She went around the neighborhood and says, my brother's going 113 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: to be a director, you know, and everybody, oh, yeah, right, 114 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: But she really believed in him and saw something. She 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: just said, he was an artist from the word go, 116 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: and she just felt like he could do anything, and 117 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: so she went around trying to help him raise money 118 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: for an early film. 119 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: How old was he at this point. 120 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: I think he was still in his teenage years, and 121 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: she was obviously younger, so I think she really could 122 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: see the future and that he was going to be 123 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: a great director one day. 124 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: So it was already clear that he had a sort 125 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: of idealistic streak running through him. 126 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: Yes, idealistic and talented, and even in his bedroom when 127 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: he was all alone, he would do these very creative 128 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: like little films and impressions and all of that. So 129 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: it became clear early on that he was going to 130 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: be an artist of some sort. 131 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: So Talia was really she was right by his side 132 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: from the beginning. 133 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they always supported each other. And of course 134 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: she goes on to play Connie Corleone and The Godfather. 135 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: So what's next for Francis. 136 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: Well, in nineteen fifty five he enrolled in the theater 137 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: arts department at Hofstra University and then he went to 138 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: UCLA Graduate Film School, where he rose through the ranks 139 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: and became a top screenwriter in his class. 140 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: And that's when Peter Bart discovered him, right. 141 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: That's right. Peter Bart was a New York Times reporter 142 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: based in Los Angeles, and here he is. 143 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: Young want to be filmmakers at UCLA and USC were 144 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: finding unique ways of staying alive and feeding themselves while 145 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: they were making student films going to film school and 146 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: trying to get some film to show, you know, studios 147 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: to get a job. And that one of the ways 148 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: that Francis had pursued was to make films that were 149 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: called Newdies and udies, which were by today's standards, totally 150 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 3: asexual but had sort of sex scenes, but you know, 151 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: fully closed sex scenes. And he directed or edited a 152 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: couple of those. 153 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: When did Roger Corman come into the mix? And for 154 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: people who don't know the late great Roger Corman was 155 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: sort of a godfather in his own right, but the 156 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: godfather of the new Hollywood. And he was a great 157 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: director of B movies and pop cinema, but also handled 158 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: distribution on a lot of foreign films by incredible directors 159 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: like Kerasawa and Fellini. And of course he fostered a 160 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: lot of young talents and was a mentor to people 161 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: like Jack Nicholson and Peter Fonda and Peter Bugdanovich. 162 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, especially Francis Bord Cooppola, who even featured 163 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: Roger in God Bothered Too. He was one of the 164 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: senators in the hearings. But they met when Coppola was 165 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: finishing up at UCLA in the sixties and Korma was 166 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: looking for an editor to cut the anti American propaganda 167 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: out of a Russian sci fi film, and here's Roger Korman. 168 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 4: So I called UCLA and I said, who is your 169 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 4: best graduating senior in editing? So they sent over several people, 170 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,479 Speaker 4: and I felt Francis was the brightest and most creative. 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: Corman hired copple AZ's assistant. And what sort of work 172 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: did he do for Corman other than editing Russian sci Fi. 173 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: Films, well pretty much everything positioning, the camera, holding the boom, 174 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: mic script revisions. He even brought Francis to Europe as 175 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: part of a film crew, where he decided to give 176 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: him even more responsibility. 177 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 4: And so I then got the idea that I had 178 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 4: this little crew, I had everything in the microbus. We 179 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 4: paid for everybody to come to Europe, and we could 180 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 4: make another picture and advertise the cost of taking everybody 181 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 4: to Europe. I'll write it off over the first picture 182 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 4: and make a second picture for almost nothing. So I 183 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 4: offered a chance to Francis. I said, I've got thirty 184 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 4: thousand dollars in cash. I can give you the thirty 185 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: thousand dollars if you can write a little horror script 186 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 4: and shoot it in Ireland with a skeleton crew. 187 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: Coppola jumped at the chance and assembled a ragtag group 188 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: of fellow UCLA grads and Irish locals to work around 189 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: the clock on the top floor of an old house 190 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: outside of Dublin. And the movie was called Dementia thirteen. 191 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: What came of that movie, Well, probably. 192 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: The most significant thing for Francis was his wife and 193 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: firstborn child. 194 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,119 Speaker 2: That's right, they met on set, right. 195 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Exactly Eleanor jesse Neil. She was a fellow UCLA grad 196 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: recruited by Corman, and the two started a relationship in Ireland, 197 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and soon she became pregnant. 198 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 2: How did Copola take that? 199 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: Really great? He told Eleanor that he always wanted a family, 200 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: and the two got married in Las Vegas and moved 201 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: to La to start their lives. As filmmakers. 202 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: Tell me about Copola's early career, did he see a 203 00:11:58,960 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: lot of success? 204 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: Well, pretty much like Mario Puzzo, Koppolist struggled early on 205 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: early films that weren't exactly a list movies, a bad investment, 206 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: and real feelings of despair about his prospects as an artist. 207 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: But things turned around when twentieth Century Fox hired him 208 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: to co write the screenplay for Patten, which won him 209 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: an Academy Award. 210 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: Mark, let's talk about Patten for a second. Patten comes 211 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: out in nineteen seventy and it's about one of the 212 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: most famous generals in American history, if not all of history. 213 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: To what extent do you think that prepared Coppola for 214 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: not only writing a blockbuster, but writing a movie that's 215 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 2: about a strong figurehead or a charismatic leader. 216 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 5: Yeah. 217 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: I think Paton prepared him for a lot, because Patten 218 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: was about, you know, a general that was a strong 219 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: charismatic leader, much like Don Corleone, but in a very 220 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: different way. They weren't a very different war pattern was 221 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: World War Two, and The Godfather was a war between 222 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: the two rival families going to the mattresses, where Colemensus says, 223 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, we have to do this every few years 224 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: to weed out the bad blood. But I think that 225 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: Francis learned a lot by co writing the script for Patent, 226 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: for which he won an Academy Award, as did George C. 227 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: Scott for Best Actor that year. And I think that 228 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: prepared him for the War of the Godfather which was 229 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: soon to come. 230 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: And that was also the first time that Copola had 231 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: gone from making a indie film to making an epic. 232 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a mainstream Hollywood film for which 233 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: he won an Oscar is a co writer of the script, 234 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: so it was a pretty big step. 235 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,119 Speaker 2: And then he wrote a movie for Charlie Bludorn right famously. 236 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: Yes, it was one of Charlie's early flops, Is Paris Burning, 237 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: and Kappla knew it was a bomb so while he 238 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: was working on it, he wrote an adaptation of the 239 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: novel You're a Big Boy Now, which he then directed 240 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: and screened it can That's what really put him on 241 00:13:59,520 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: the map. 242 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: I want to just read a few of the headlines 243 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: from that time. From the La Times we have Coppola 244 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 2: breaks the age barrier, which marveled at his success as 245 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: a twenty six year old. From The New York Times 246 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: offering the Moon to a guy in jeans by film 247 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: critic Rex Reid, who called him orson wells at the 248 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: handheld camera. That's some pretty staggering praise. 249 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was amazed when I saw all those clippings 250 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: with all of those amazing reviews of his work and 251 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: who he was. And it wasn't long after that when 252 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: he signs a deal with Warner Brothers to direct Finian's Rainbow, 253 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: starring no less than Fred Astaire. 254 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: But with all this success, he's growing pretty disillusioned, right. 255 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's fighting to make the kind of movies he 256 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: wants to make from inside the Hollywood machine. He makes 257 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: The rain People without Warner Brothers full sign off on 258 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: certain aspects of the film, which ended up costing him 259 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: in the end. He's just sick and tired of. 260 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: Hollywood, and he decides to head north. 261 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he packs ap family into a VW bus in 262 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: a very sixties scene and leaves La for the greener 263 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: pastures of San Francisco. He's trailed in a caravan by 264 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: his assistant Monas Gager and his sister Talia, and of 265 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: course his collaborator, a young George Lucas. 266 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: So they get to San Francisco, what then. 267 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: Will they set up shop for a new kind of 268 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: production company, American Zootrope, which was modeled in a way 269 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: after the studios that Coppola had seen and experienced in Europe. 270 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: Monaskeager told me it was in the Wine Country because 271 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: it was the neighborhood was filled with winos. 272 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: That's interesting what you say about the foreign production companies 273 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: in what way was it modeled on them? 274 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: Well, they were more independent, they were more artistically driven 275 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: rather than commercially driven. I think it's best summed up 276 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: in an interview he gave to the San Francisco Chronicle 277 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: when he gave a tour of their new offices, and 278 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: he said the difference is that in La you talk 279 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: about deals and here you talk about. 280 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: Film sounds, like a dream for director. 281 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: Yes, but the dream didn't last. By the time Peter 282 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: Bart approached him about The Godfather, American Zootrope was in 283 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: a dire position. The sheriff was literally at the door 284 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: about to shut down the company for unpaid taxes, and 285 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: they were six hundred thousand in hock to Warner Brothers 286 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: for overhead and development cost. 287 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: It seems like a no brainer that he'd accept the job. 288 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: You would think, But he really didn't want to make 289 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the movie. He thought the book upon first hearing about it, 290 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: sounded like The Carpetbackers. But Peter Bart was persistent. He 291 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: mailed him a copy of the book, and apparently Coppola 292 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: only got sixty pages into it. 293 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 6: You know, I did believe he didn't want to do 294 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 6: the picture, and I would call him and remind him 295 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 6: how much money he owed. One time I called him out, 296 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 6: I found out what the tuition of his oldest kids, 297 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 6: the private school tuition was. Sarvents show like. 298 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 7: To remind you. 299 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 6: But I was rather unpleasant about pushing him in this 300 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 6: because he didn't want to do it. 301 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: Go What convinced him to do it in the end, Well. 302 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: I think it was really debt. American Zootrope was struggling, 303 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: and Coppola was at his friend George Lucas's house one 304 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: night in Mill Valley, and somehow Peter Bart got the 305 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: phone number and called him there, and Lucas apparently told 306 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: him what would soon become a famous quote, we are broke, Francis, 307 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: We're out of business. We're closed. You have to accept 308 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: this job. We have no money, and the sheriff is 309 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: coming to chain up the front door. 310 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: And legend has it that Coppola quit trying to read 311 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: the book and headed to the Mill Valley Public Library 312 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 2: and read books on the mob instead. What did he 313 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: find in those books, Well. 314 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: He found a lot. Beneath all the blood and gore, 315 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: he found stories of families and American entrepreneurs all in 316 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: the mob. His interest was revived, and he went back 317 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: to the book with an open mind. He realized that 318 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: there was a profound story to tell in Mario Puzo's novel. 319 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: He said, it was the classic story of succession, about 320 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: a great king with three sons, each of whom had 321 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: a single element of what made the king great. Like 322 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: a scene out of the movie. He calls Peter Bart 323 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 1: and says, I'll make the picture under one condition. And 324 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: here's how Robert Evans later described it in his memoir. 325 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 8: Peter comes into my office. Coppola makes the picture on 326 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 8: one condition that it's not a film about organized gangsters. 327 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 8: It's not about organized gangsters. It ain't a musical, Peter. 328 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 8: He wants to make it as a family chronicle, a 329 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 8: metaphor for capitalism in America. Fuck him and the horse 330 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 8: he wrote it on. 331 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 2: So now Coppola is convinced and he wants to do 332 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: the film. But perversely, it seems like he needs to 333 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: turn around and convince Paramount that he's the man for 334 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: the job. 335 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Yes, even though he's accepted the job himself, he has 336 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: to convince Paramount. He flies to La Al. Ruddy picks 337 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: him up at the airport and immediately starts giving him 338 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: advice on how to land the gig. 339 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 5: I said, but remember what day, francis. 340 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: There's a low budget movie. 341 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 5: So when you meet the guys, start figuring out he 342 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 5: is down grade what you were planting. 343 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: He takes him to the Paramount studios and according to Ruddy, 344 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: Coppler gives the performance of a lifetime. 345 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 5: Oh god, he rand it on the philosophically value of 346 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 5: film and the beauty of film and the messages of 347 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: this book. He's showing them so many diamonds into so 348 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 5: much flashing. If they say, I don't know what he's 349 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 5: talking about, they loved it. So now Francis is on. 350 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 5: They loved him, Yeah, I know they loved him. 351 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: For a guy who doesn't want the job, he's really 352 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 2: selling himself. 353 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: According to Ruddy, Yes, but I asked Coppola about that 354 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: meeting twenty five years later and had no recollection. He 355 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: wrote to me in an email, I'm sorry, I have 356 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: no idea of how Ruddy described what I may have said. Sorry, 357 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: I cannot remember that day at all. 358 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: It sounds like he might be repressing that memory a 359 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: little bit. 360 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, because for Ruddy it was crystal clear. 361 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: He says. Francis jumps up on the table and starts 362 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: giving the performance of a lifetime. He sounded like Al Ruddy, 363 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: as Al Ruddy gave the performance of Hogan's heroes. Remember that. 364 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: So this is like Coppola giving his vision of the Godfather. 365 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: So he kills it in La But then his agent, 366 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: freddie Field says he needs to go to New York 367 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 2: and convinced Charlie bludorm. 368 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: Yes, Coppola's assistant Mona Skager told me Francis took the 369 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: Red Eye to New York and kept Charlie up until 370 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: three in the morning, pitching him on his vision of 371 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: the movie. How do you know he's kept him up 372 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: till three in the morning. Francis told you. 373 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 9: He told us he had a meeting him and then 374 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 9: pitched this idea of how he saw the God saw it. 375 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: Because Francis is a chi and he's rusted that whole environment. 376 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 2: Of the story about the family, So he sold Hurricane 377 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: Charlie on his vision. 378 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: He sure did. And then he called his assistant Mona 379 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: and tells her to tell his wife to pack up 380 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: the kids and get on the Red Eyed in New York. 381 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: The family would be selling on the SS Michelangelo for 382 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: Italy the next day. 383 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 2: It's so funny that he and Puzzo chose to do 384 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 2: the same exact thing once their ship came in. 385 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: Metaphorically speaking, these guys haven't even met yet, but there 386 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: are already kindred spirits. 387 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: And he worked on the screenplay on the ship right. 388 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: Yes, Mona told me that he tore pages out of 389 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: Puzzo's novel and tape them to the windows of the ship, 390 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: and she was just typing away like a mad dog. 391 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: Do you think that Coppola chose to go to Italy 392 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: because he thought that it would inspire him in some 393 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: way or was this just a simple family trip? 394 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: Well, I think he was going there because there was 395 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: a film festival he wanted to attend in Italy. That's 396 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: where he met or that's where he met up with 397 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese, and so there was a reason for him 398 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: going there. It was about film, but at the same 399 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: time it was like Mario Puzzo, you know, I get away, 400 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: a vacation, a celebration of sorts. 401 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: Okay, let's fast forward to September twenty ninth in nineteen seventy. 402 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 2: There's an amazing photo which you have in the book 403 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: of Puzzo, Coppola, Evans and Ruddy at a press conference 404 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: announcing Copola as the director of the film. 405 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: Yes, it was extraordinary because I was able to access 406 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: Robert Evans's date book because there was an auction of 407 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: his possessions, and I was able to track down the 408 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: man who purchased the date book at the auction, and 409 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: he kindly sent me photographs from these pages, and on 410 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: the one that marked September twenty ninth, nineteen seventy, you 411 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: can see in Robert Evans's own green handwriting ten AM 412 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: press conference the Godfather. So in the famous picture that 413 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: resulted from that press coverage, you can see these four men, Puso, Coppola, 414 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: Evans and Ruddy at this famous press conference, and they're 415 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: all smiles, but they're about to engage in this epic 416 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: battle to get this picture made. 417 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: Hereily, it doesn't betray any of the misery that's about 418 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: to come. 419 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: No, everybody's all smiles at this point, but those smiles 420 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: would not last for long. 421 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 2: Well, let's start with the relationship that did have some smiles, 422 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: Copola and Puzso we know Copla extensively rewrites Puso's script. 423 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: Did Puso know this going in? 424 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew, and honestly he was very relieved. According 425 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: to everyone I spoke with, Puso and Copola became fast 426 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: friends and had great respect for one another. Here's what 427 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: Tallya Schier said about them. 428 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 10: They loved each other. I mean they were very very 429 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 10: good friends. And France has had tremendous respect for him 430 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 10: as a writer who was also a good writer, and 431 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 10: they were together, and I think that was the the 432 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 10: censure for Francis that he was so loved Mario and 433 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 10: their collaboration was very creative and exciting. Mario really was 434 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 10: in Francis's corner and Francis was seeing it. 435 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: And did they work on the screenplay together? 436 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: Yes, and no. Puso really wanted to collaborate, sit side 437 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: by side and rewrite the script and what he envisioned 438 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: was a traditional way. But apparently when he asked, Coppola 439 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: looked him straight in the eye and said no. And 440 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: Puso would later say he liked that. That's how he 441 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: knew that Coppola was a real director. 442 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: I guess at this point he is looking for someone 443 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: to take over from him exactly. 444 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: So the two agree that they'll collaborate long distance, with 445 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: Coppola and San Francisco and Puso in La or in 446 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: New York back home, and Coppola sets to work in 447 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: a cafe in San Francisco where he arrived each morning 448 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: with the novel in a satchel, and his first step 449 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: is to create what he calls a prompt book, which 450 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 1: is a tradition from the theater. And here's an interview 451 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: from two thousand and one where he describes creating this 452 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: tone of a book. 453 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 7: When I realized that I was actually going to make 454 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 7: a movie out of the novel The Godfather, I sat 455 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 7: down and began to read the book very very carefully. 456 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 7: And I think it's important to put your impressions down 457 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 7: on the first reading, because those are the initial instincts 458 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 7: about what you thought was good or what you didn't 459 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 7: understand or what you. 460 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: Thought was bad. 461 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 7: And having gotten through the book, I pulled my book 462 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 7: apart that I had made those comments on and myself 463 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 7: pasted every page of the novel onto sheets of paper 464 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 7: like this, and I called it the Godfather Notebook and 465 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 7: put a big warning if found return to this address 466 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 7: for reward, because I recognized that it would have every 467 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 7: opinion that I had on the book. And interestingly, I 468 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 7: decided to break down each section with these key criteria. 469 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 2: He's clearly such a craftsman, and you can start to 470 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 2: see some of the moments that he pulls from the 471 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 2: book as essential or pivotal. 472 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 7: On page seventy nine of the book, we have the 473 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 7: actual shooting of the Don whenever I felt there was 474 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 7: a really important part of the book that was going 475 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 7: to be in the movie, I would sit there with 476 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 7: my ruler and really underline. So this details the shooting. 477 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 7: My margin notes are the shooting great detail. The Don 478 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 7: is the main character of the movie, so as in Psycho, 479 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 7: we are totally thrown when he is shot. 480 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm afraid to ask. Koppel is hard at work 481 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: on the script. What's Poozzo doing with his new found 482 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: free time. 483 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: Well, he's having the time of his life in Hollywood. 484 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: He's living on Paramount's dime, but the pressure to write 485 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: the script is off, so he gets to really enjoy 486 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: being a successful author and screenwriter of a much anticipated 487 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: Hollywood film. At this time, he has a new assistant, 488 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: Linetta Walgren. Linetta calls him the frog Prince because he 489 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: dressed very poorly. His pants would drag on the ground, 490 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: he had these shirts that were too tight, and of 491 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 1: course he had a prodigious belly. So one day Lynetta 492 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: takes him to the Gucci store in Beverly Hills. Well, 493 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: of course, nobody knows who he is, so they pretty 494 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: much ignored him, and soon Linetta says, don't you know 495 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: who this is. This is the writer, the author of 496 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: the Godfather, and they went, oh my god. And pretty 497 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: much like in the movie Pretty Woman, they're all over him. 498 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: And he buys all these new clothes, valure track suits, 499 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: all in his favorite color, pink, and he's just transformed. 500 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: The frog Prince had turned into a real rents of Hollywood, 501 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: and everyone wanted him at their parties and for dinner. 502 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 2: He must have fit right in at the Beverly Hills 503 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 2: Hotel in his pink tracksuits. 504 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: I think he stood out at the Beverly Hills Hotel 505 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: in his pink track suit. But you know, everybody loved 506 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: Mario Puzo. 507 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: He's also a man of deeply entrenched habits. He's still 508 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 2: gambling during this time, right, of. 509 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: Course, he's gambling. Linetta Walgren said you would pick him 510 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: up for work every day, and some days he would 511 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: just say get on the freeway, which meant they were 512 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: going to the airport to fly to Las Vegas for 513 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: the day. 514 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: Well, what about work. Isn't he helping Coppola with the script? 515 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: Yes, but according to Coppola, Pouso had done his part 516 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: by writing the book, and that was Coppola's turn to 517 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: do the heavy lifting on the script. He would send 518 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: drafts for Puoso to comment on, and Coppola really respected 519 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: his notes. There's a great line in the scene where 520 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: Clemenza is teaching Michael how to make spaghetti sauce, and 521 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: Coppla had written, first you brown some garlic, and then 522 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: you throw in the tomatoes, and Puzzo scribble to note 523 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: gangsters don't brown, they fry. 524 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: And this is also when they're working out of casinos. 525 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Right. Yes, France has told me that a casino is 526 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: the absolute best place for writers to collaborate. 527 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 9: One thing about Mario is he loved to gamble. So 528 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 9: I got the idea that we could both go to 529 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 9: a gambling casino in nearby Reno, Nevada. The reason why 530 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 9: it's good to work in a gambling casino is because 531 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 9: they're up for twenty four hours service that people are 532 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 9: gambling all through the night, so that at any time 533 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 9: if you order breakfast or you water, some refreshments or 534 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 9: whatever you want, basically it's available. And we were up 535 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 9: all night writing the script, and then when we get tired, 536 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 9: we would go downstairs and Mario would gamble. And of 537 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 9: course he was a terrible gambler, and he would just 538 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 9: lose all this money on the roulette wheeling. And once 539 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 9: someone said, oh, mister Puzso you're losing so much money. Yeah, well, 540 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 9: we're losing thousands here on the roulette table. But we'll 541 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 9: go upstairs and work on the script that we'll make millions. 542 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: So Copola's version of the script was vastly different than Puzzo's. 543 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: I think it was quite different. Peter bart and Bob 544 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: Evans were pretty happy with Puso's script, mostly because it 545 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: seemed like he did everything he was told to do. 546 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: He changed the setting to modern data to cut costs, 547 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: and was even opening with a love scene because already 548 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: told him to. But Copolo is up for a fight, 549 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: always up for a fight. He insisted on keeping the 550 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: film set in the forties, and he had his own 551 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: thoughts on an opening scene, I believe in America America 552 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: has made my fortune. 553 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: Which is of course one of the greatest openings in 554 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: movie history. 555 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely because that line I believe in America appears about 556 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: halfway into the first chapter of Puzo's book. It could 557 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: have been easily overlooked, but Coppola realized what it represented. 558 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: He said, the real appeal to the Godfather is that 559 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: you could go to someone if you weren't being treated fairly, 560 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: and the Godfather would make it right. 561 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 5: You know. 562 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: One of the things about The Godfather is that it's 563 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: an immigration story. It's a story about a family that 564 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: comes from this part of Italy that's very remote from America. 565 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: So do you think that that sets it up as 566 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: being a film about the American dream? 567 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: Yes, of course. I mean you see this space coming 568 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: out of the darkness, and the first line he says 569 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: is I believe in America. I mean you just think wow. 570 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: And then the way it pulls back from the darkness. 571 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: You see the hand of Fido Corleone scratching his chin, 572 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: and then you see the cat, and then you see 573 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: the family there gathered around the table on the day 574 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: of his daughter's wedding. So it's telescopic in a way 575 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: because it starts with this amazing image of this immigrant 576 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: coming to the Godfather for help, and then the story 577 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: that he tells about his daughter. I mean, gosh, you 578 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: can't get any more dramatic than that. 579 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: And bonas Ara is pleading and desperate, and in contrast, 580 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: Don Vito's incredibly composed and stoic. 581 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: It's this opening scene so dramatic. That was the scene 582 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: that hooked me in for the get go. You know, 583 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: you see the moon faced of this undertaker rising up 584 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: out of the darkness, and he says, I believe in America. 585 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: And then it cuts to Don Corleone and you wonder 586 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: what the hell's going on? And then bonas Sarah asked 587 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: the Godfather to commit murder. He wants the young men 588 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: who have harmed his daughter dead. He doesn't say it 589 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: just like that, because he whispers it in the Don's 590 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: ear while Brando is petting that cat. And then Don 591 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: Corleone says, you know, you come to my house on 592 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: the day of my daughter's wedding and you ask me 593 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: to commit murder. That's not a legitimate tip for Tad 594 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, because your daughter is a lot. 595 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: You know. He says, you found success in America and 596 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: never needed a friend like me, But now he needs 597 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: him pretty badly because the system of America has denied 598 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: him justice. That opening scene just grabs you by the throat, 599 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: sets up everything to follow, and really doesn't let you 600 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: go into the final. 601 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: Credits, and Copel is already thinking about casting. 602 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: Yes, and unfortunately so were the executives at Paramount. Ruddy 603 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: was so besieged with actors seeking roles that he put 604 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: out a statement to the Hollywood Reporter, and here's what 605 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: it said. The book is the star, not the actors. 606 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: I want the audience to see real people, almost as 607 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: if they're looking through a window. I just don't feel 608 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: I can achieve this if I hire well known actors. 609 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the producer, not the director, saying 610 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: this so you can see the panemonium that has ensued. 611 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: Thus begins the casting frenzy of The Godfather. 612 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli. As a production of 613 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: Airmail and iHeartMedia. 614 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 2: The podcast is based on the book of the same name, 615 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: written by our very own Mark Seal. 616 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: Our producer is Tina Mullen. 617 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: Research assistance by Jack Sullivan. 618 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: Jonathan Dressler was our development producer. 619 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: Our music supervisor is Randall Poster. Our executive producers are 620 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: Mee Nathan King, Mark Seal, Doan Fagan, and Graydon Carter. 621 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Bridget Arseno and everyone at CDM Studios. 622 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 2: A comprehensive list of sources and acknowledgments can be found 623 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 2: in Mark Seal's book Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli, 624 00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 2: published by Gallery Books. An imprint of Simon and Schuster