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Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this

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Speaker 1: fm to get started.

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Speaker 2: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 1: I view therapy as a space where I'm guiding you

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Speaker 1: and walking alongside you on your journey. Right, I'm not

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Speaker 1: the expert in your personal experience.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 2: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 2: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 2: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 2: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 2: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 2: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: women like you. We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Bussard, a

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Speaker 1: college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 2: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 2: five Roads to fake friends, and create a safe space

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Speaker 2: where black women can just be Hey, lady, it's here

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Speaker 2: from Cultivating her Space. Are you tired of working hard

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Speaker 2: for your money? Do you want your business to run

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Speaker 2: smoothly when you're out of office? If you want to

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Speaker 2: learn how to automate your business cash flow and increase

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Speaker 2: your impact and influence, join me from our free workshop

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Speaker 2: at brandwith Terry dot Com. Again, that's Brand with Terry

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Speaker 2: dot Com. My name is Bell te double Ri. I

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Speaker 2: hope to see you there, lady. All right, lady, today

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Speaker 2: we have a very special episode. We are chatting with

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Speaker 2: our very own You know, I have to call you

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Speaker 2: our resident therapist, but I'm not going to call you that.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 2: We're taking with our very own doctor Dominique Bussard, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go ahead and get us started. Lady

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Speaker 2: with a quote, of the day. Our quote is ideally,

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Speaker 2: therapy is a sacred space for all of your worries

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Speaker 2: and wishes are laid bare. And that quote comes to

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Speaker 2: us by our own doctor Dom. So Dom, can you

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Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about what that quote means

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Speaker 2: to you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I just want to acknowledge that this was

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Speaker 1: definitely a change in pace to have you reading the

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Speaker 1: quote of the day. So yeah, So for me, that

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Speaker 1: quote is really about how I view the therapy space.

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Speaker 1: I say ideally because that's exactly what it is. Ideally,

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Speaker 1: your therapy space is a space where you feel safe

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Speaker 1: and comfortable enough to put out there all of your worries,

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Speaker 1: all of your dreams, like all of it right, You

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Speaker 1: truly feel safe and support it in that space. And

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Speaker 1: again I say ideally because I also recognize that that's

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Speaker 1: not always the case, and that could be the part

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Speaker 1: of the client, that could be on the part of

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Speaker 1: the therapist.

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Speaker 3: But what we really want.

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Speaker 1: Is a space where you, as the client, feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: enough to really put it all out there, to truly

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Speaker 1: just be to be vulnerable, because that's where the growth

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Speaker 1: happens is when you're not afraid to say, like the

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Speaker 1: ugly stuff that you might not say out loud to whoever,

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Speaker 1: but you say it in therapy and then figure out

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Speaker 1: what's a different way that I can communicate that to

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Speaker 1: that other person.

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Speaker 2: I love that you pointed out the ideal because I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, like, dang, that sounds so amazing. And I have,

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Speaker 2: you know, luckily had therapy sessions that have felt that way.

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Speaker 2: But I've also had those ones where I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this relationship is partnership, it was not a good fit.

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Speaker 2: So when I think about your journey and where you began,

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Speaker 2: how you began, it makes me think about people that

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Speaker 2: I know and needed sometimes myself where over the years

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Speaker 2: before I went to therapy, I would consider my best

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Speaker 2: friend like my therapist because I'm like, Okay, you're the

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Speaker 2: person that I feel safe with. I tell all my

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Speaker 2: you know, wishes and worries. You know, I share all

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Speaker 2: my wishes and worries with you, or you know some

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Speaker 2: of us who have been through a lot in life,

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Speaker 2: and we're like, you know what, I want to help people.

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Speaker 2: I want to be a psychologist or a therapist when

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Speaker 2: I get older. When you think about your origin story,

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Speaker 2: what made you want to become a therapist?

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Speaker 1: So honestly, Like you know how when you're like a

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Speaker 1: little kid and everybody's like always asking you, well, what

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Speaker 1: do you want to be when you grow up? What

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Speaker 1: do you want to be? For the longest time I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be I would say. I would either tell folks, oh.

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Speaker 3: I want to be a lawyer, or I want.

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Speaker 1: To be like a fashion designer. That's what I would

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Speaker 1: tell folks. And like, I remember I had this book,

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Speaker 1: this composition book. As I'm reading stories, or I started

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Speaker 1: writing my own short stories, like I would design outfits

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Speaker 1: for the characters and stuff, or I would design outfits

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Speaker 1: that I wanted my Barbie dolls to have.

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Speaker 3: Clearly that dream did not come to fruition, But I

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Speaker 3: think what.

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Speaker 1: Made me see like the path of like being a psychologist.

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Speaker 1: I remember in high school we had this assignment where

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Speaker 1: we had to look up information on our career of choice.

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Speaker 1: And then and at the same time, there was this

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Speaker 1: TV show Ali mcbill and then you also had Law

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Speaker 1: and Order, So you had all these shows on TV

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Speaker 1: where you could see attorneys like actually or you know

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Speaker 1: that television version of attorneys, right, And I remember for

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Speaker 1: me watching those shows, the idea of having to be

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Speaker 1: in a courtroom and speak in front of people like

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Speaker 1: terrified me. So not even I wasn't even upset with

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Speaker 1: the idea or nervous about the idea of kind of

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Speaker 1: that unspoken power that attorneys may have, particularly if you're

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Speaker 1: like a prosecuting attorney or like you're in criminal your

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Speaker 1: criminal law, right, because that's what you see on TV.

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Speaker 3: You don't see all.

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Speaker 1: The other facets of like trademarking or you know, other

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Speaker 1: things related to like intellectual property or entertainment law or

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Speaker 1: family or No, you do see some family law on TV.

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Speaker 1: But what the image of what I saw on TV

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Speaker 1: of what lawyers do. I didn't feel comfortable with doing that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I was terrified of the idea of like having

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Speaker 1: to get up and speak in front of court. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting now because like I teach and

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Speaker 1: I present at workshops and conferences and things, and so

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Speaker 1: I am speaking in front of crowds, right, doing that

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Speaker 1: thing that I was initially scared of and so like

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Speaker 1: at that time, so this was going back to high

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Speaker 1: school and we had to do that assignment, and I

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Speaker 1: made that decision like, ugh, I don't like this idea

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Speaker 1: of having a stand in front of a courtroom like this,

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Speaker 1: fear of public speaking. But I do like helping people

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Speaker 1: and giving advice because in my mind that's what I

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Speaker 1: thought psychologists that's what they do, is they listen to

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Speaker 1: you and they tell you what you need to do

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Speaker 1: to fix it.

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Speaker 3: And so when I did.

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Speaker 1: The research, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: something that I could do. And so I, you know,

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Speaker 1: in that research, like I figured out what we're like,

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Speaker 1: all the steps necessary that it was going to take

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Speaker 1: for me to get that degree or those degrees to

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Speaker 1: become a psychologist. So made that decision in high school

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Speaker 1: and have pursued that sense.

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Speaker 2: That is pretty awesome. I think that there's so much

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Speaker 2: value in figuring out what you want to do early

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Speaker 2: on in high school. Seems to me pretty early to

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Speaker 2: know what career you want to focus on because you

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Speaker 2: can then invest in yourself. So into yourself, you know

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Speaker 2: where you're going. Like you said, in high school, you

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Speaker 2: were able to map out, Okay, this is where I

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Speaker 2: want to go, this is what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: So that's amazing. Lady. As you're tuning in, I will say,

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Speaker 2: if this is your first time listening doctor Dom, and

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Speaker 2: I you know, we're co host here on the podcast,

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Speaker 2: but today we are literally going to the other side

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Speaker 2: of the coach, right, So instead of us being in therapy,

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Speaker 2: we get to chat with the therapist and get the

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Speaker 2: inside scoop. So hopefully the question that we discussed today

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Speaker 2: are questions that will give you clarity on the experience. Now,

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Speaker 2: one thing I would love to ask you, Dom is

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Speaker 2: if someone's listening and they think they want to be

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Speaker 2: a psychologist. Well, first of all, before we dive into that,

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Speaker 2: can we talk about is there a difference between a

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Speaker 2: psychologist and a therapist or is it the same?

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Speaker 3: Yes and no?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're I know, it's so complicated, right, So

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Speaker 1: you're your therapist is the person who provides therapy, right,

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Speaker 1: and so or who you go to to get that

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Speaker 1: mental health support. So your therapist can be a psychologist.

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Speaker 1: They could be a psychiatrist, a licensed professional counselor a

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Speaker 1: licensed marriage and family therapist, or a licensed clinical social worker.

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Speaker 1: And forgive me, folks, mental health other mental health professionals

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Speaker 1: if I forgot anyone, but those are the major types

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Speaker 1: of therapy are pissed out there related to mental health.

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Speaker 1: Your psychologist is someone who has a doctorate in psychology

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Speaker 1: and they can provide therapy, but they don't have to

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Speaker 1: provide therapy, right. So there are psychologists who are in academia.

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Speaker 1: There are psychologists who are in other settings doing research

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Speaker 1: or like we have industrial organizational psychologists, and those are

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Speaker 1: the psychologists that like work with human resources departments and

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Speaker 1: things like that, like helping with organizational effectiveness.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so yes and no. It's like the legit answer,

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Speaker 2: and so it sounds like there are levels to it.

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Speaker 2: You can really take the field and kind of go

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Speaker 2: into different directions. Yeah, so okay, that's good to know

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Speaker 2: because I think I feel like I use them interchangeably.

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Speaker 2: But if there is someone that is listening and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I think I might be good at this, you know,

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Speaker 2: career path, it's something I think I'm leaning toward. How

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Speaker 2: do you know if you would make a good psychologist

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Speaker 2: or let me say therapists, because that's what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about today, and I want to make sure we make

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Speaker 2: that distinction, like, how do you know you would be

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Speaker 2: a good therapist?

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Speaker 1: You know, that's an excellent question that I don't think

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Speaker 1: you know until you know, right, And I know that's

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Speaker 1: not like a real answer. But I can think of

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Speaker 1: classmates who started off on the in graduate school and

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Speaker 1: got the degree and started doing the work and decided

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Speaker 1: that it was not for them right, And so.

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Speaker 3: For me. When I think.

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Speaker 1: About what makes a good therapist or how do you know,

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Speaker 1: because those are two different questions, how do you know

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Speaker 1: that you can be a therapist, It's about your capacity

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Speaker 1: to listen and hold other people's stuff. One of the

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Speaker 1: common misconceptions is that a therapist is someone who's there

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Speaker 1: to give you advice, who's there to tell you what

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Speaker 1: to do. Now, I will say that, depending on your

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Speaker 1: therapist style, that there may be moments when, yes, they

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Speaker 1: are telling you what to do right, they may be

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Speaker 1: being pretty directive, but that's not their main purpose. A

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Speaker 1: coach is someone who's going to be definitely there to

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Speaker 1: like kind of give you directips and things like you

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Speaker 1: need to do X, Y and Z. The therapist, again,

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Speaker 1: while they may give you some of that guidance, that's

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Speaker 1: not their only purpose. To me, the therapist, their main

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Speaker 1: purpose is to listen and help guide you on your journey. Now,

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Speaker 1: what I encourage folks to also do is to think

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Speaker 1: about is to ask the therapists these questions. I view

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Speaker 1: therapy as a space where I'm guiding you and walking

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Speaker 1: alongside you on your journey. Right, I'm not the expert

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Speaker 1: in your personal experience.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, that was really interesting, And the thing that

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Speaker 2: really stood out to me was the part about listening,

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Speaker 2: because I think a lot of times, like you said,

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Speaker 2: there is a misconception. People are like, oh, I would

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Speaker 2: be a good with that great therapist. I give good advice,

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Speaker 2: And it's like, no, it's not about giving advice. It's

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Speaker 2: about listening. And I feel like that's a skill that

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Speaker 2: many people lack. You know, they think they might be

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Speaker 2: good at it, but to really just hold space and

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Speaker 2: listen and not make the conversation about yourself or not

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Speaker 2: have your unconscious bias impacting the conversation. To me, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like are definitely superheroes and you have to be

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Speaker 2: a special kind of person to be a therapist. Is

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Speaker 2: when I'm gathering, and so I want to dive into

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Speaker 2: the listening phase and talk a bit about you know,

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Speaker 2: when you we're going to get into the steps to

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Speaker 2: become a therapist or psychologist, but when it comes to listening, like,

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Speaker 2: how do you develop that skill? Because I feel like,

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Speaker 2: whether you're a therapist or not, that is a valuable

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Speaker 2: skill that will allow you to enhance your relationships connect

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Speaker 2: with people on a deeper level, especially when you're like

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Speaker 2: when you have kids, engaging your teens or your you

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Speaker 2: know your kids, or even your partner. So how do

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Speaker 2: you develop the listening skills because people just be ready

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Speaker 2: to talk talk talk these days.

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Speaker 1: So when you're in this as a therapist, part of

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Speaker 1: that listening is really being still and being present so

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Speaker 1: that you're attending to not only what that person is

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Speaker 1: saying in the present moment, but also kind of thinking five, ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty steps ahead of that person as well to kind

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Speaker 1: of think about, Okay, well, what are the potential outcomes

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Speaker 1: from what they're sharing right now, and what are those

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Speaker 1: outcomes based on what I know from previous therapy experience,

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Speaker 1: what I and when I say previous therapy experience, like

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Speaker 1: work with other clients, maybe my own experiences, and also

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Speaker 1: in some instances, what the research shows.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I do want to be clear that when we think

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Speaker 1: about black women, and we talk about black women, we

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Speaker 1: know that there's a paucity in the literature around and

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Speaker 1: when I say paucity in the literature. What I mean

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Speaker 1: is in the research around the mental health needs of

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Speaker 1: black folks. That's a whole other conversation about like the

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Speaker 1: systemic issues, institutional issues on why that research is not

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Speaker 1: being put out there like it needs to be. But

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Speaker 1: I say all that to say that when you're listening,

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Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of mental juggling, right, so you

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Speaker 1: are focusing on again what's being said in the present moment,

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Speaker 1: but also kind of thinking five, ten, fifteen, twenty steps ahead,

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Speaker 1: and that takes practice. So you know, I when I

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Speaker 1: reflect that on some of my very first clients, I

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Speaker 1: think about the level of expertise that I have now

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Speaker 1: compared to what I had when I first started out,

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Speaker 1: and how I showed up like there were skills that

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Speaker 1: I had to like work on, right. And that's not

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Speaker 1: to be an indictment on new therapists, right therapists in training,

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Speaker 1: because I also know that sometimes there's a bias where

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Speaker 1: folks say, well, I don't want a new therapist because

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Speaker 1: they don't have enough experience. I get that, But what

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Speaker 1: I would also offer to counter that is that usually

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Speaker 1: when you were working with a therapist in training, you

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Speaker 1: are getting the support of not just that therapist who's

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Speaker 1: in the room with you, but also a team of people.

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Speaker 1: So to me, that's like gold because you're getting like

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Speaker 1: at least two therapists for the price of one.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. So it sounds like practice makes perfect or you

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Speaker 2: know a similar I know sometimes we shy away from

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Speaker 2: that statement because of the work perfect, but it sounds

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Speaker 2: like practice serves you well when it comes to becoming

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Speaker 2: a good listener, and just being in the field for

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Speaker 2: a longer period of time allows you to work on

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Speaker 2: that craft. One thing that came up for me as

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Speaker 2: you were sharing is like, how is a therapist? I

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Speaker 2: guess in the beginning, I'm assuming that you have some

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Speaker 2: type of shadowing experience, for folks are providing feedback. But

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Speaker 2: once you're an established professional, how are you evaluated and

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Speaker 2: how do you get better at what you do so

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Speaker 2: that you can still continue to grow and evolve? Because

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking, like, I know, sometimes when you

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Speaker 2: get into a field and you're there for a while,

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Speaker 2: you might just do things a certain way, but I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that your field is always evolving. So how can

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Speaker 2: therapists make sure that they are like sharpening those skills?

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Speaker 2: I guess, So.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of ways, right. So the major way,

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Speaker 1: in order to maintain your license, you have to earn

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Speaker 1: a number of what they call continuing education credits every year.

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Speaker 1: And so every state is different, depending like in terms

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Speaker 1: of like how many continuing education credits you have to

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Speaker 1: have and what topics you have to cover. But what

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Speaker 1: I will say is that that is what helps keep

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Speaker 1: you sharp, That is what helps keep you in the

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Speaker 1: know of what is happening.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is consultation groups. So and that I

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Speaker 1: say consultation groups, particularly if you're in a solo practice,

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Speaker 1: so meaning that it's just you is nobody else. But

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Speaker 1: if you're in like a group practice or community mental

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Speaker 1: health agency, or at a hospital like or a university

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Speaker 1: counseling center. Like so if you're in a space where

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Speaker 1: it's a group of folks, then you have constant access

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Speaker 1: to other folks who you can speak guidance from, and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna seek guidance from you. It's a reciprocal relationship.

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Speaker 1: But then also too when when you're in those settings,

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Speaker 1: so like for instance, I am working in a university

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Speaker 1: counseling center, and so we have constant access to learning

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Speaker 1: opportunities so that you are constantly staying sharp. As long

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Speaker 1: as you're choosing to engage in it, you're going to

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Speaker 1: be staying sharp.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point there, as long as you're choosing

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Speaker 2: to engage in it and you're not just like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I got my degree, I'm just gonna coast.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: That's super helpful and it's really interesting to know that

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Speaker 2: there are those resources at your disposal. As far as

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Speaker 2: one thing that came up as you were sharing before

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Speaker 2: was like, I know I have a lot of personal

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Speaker 2: stuff going on in my life. It seems like always.

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Speaker 2: I think that's just the nature of life, Like we

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Speaker 2: just got people got shit going on now. As a therapist,

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Speaker 2: when you're trying to hold space for someone, when you're

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Speaker 2: trying to be present with them, but you have your own,

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Speaker 2: like life drama going on, like, what are some of

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Speaker 2: the best ways to manage that so that you can

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Speaker 2: show up and be present for someone when you have

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Speaker 2: your own stuff going on.

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Speaker 3: The first is to have your own therapist.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I cannot stress enough how helpful it has been

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Speaker 1: for me to have my own therapist. And you know,

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Speaker 1: one thing that Alisa Bolkene said in one of our

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Speaker 1: previous episodes.

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Speaker 3: In her most recent appearance, she.

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Speaker 1: Pointed out that oftentimes as therapists, in terms of our

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Speaker 1: own evolution and development, we are usually not that far

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Speaker 1: ahead of our clients. But because we're therapists, we have

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Speaker 1: we're equipped with access to.

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Speaker 3: More tools, right, and.

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Speaker 1: We have access to our own therapists, And so for me,

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Speaker 1: having my own therapist has been incredibly helpful, particularly when

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Speaker 1: there's been like maybe some challenging times in my life.

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Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is that we are legally and

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Speaker 1: ethically bound by recognizing when our personal life is interfering

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Speaker 1: with our ability to perform and to show up for clients,

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Speaker 1: and when that becomes a problem, then we take a pause,

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Speaker 1: we take a step back from therapy, from our role

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Speaker 1: as a therapist, and we do the work to get

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Speaker 1: ourselves back to a space where we can fully show

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Speaker 1: up for our clients.

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Speaker 2: That makes me so happy to hear don because I

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Speaker 2: feel like, I don't know, maybe it's just my perspective,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like back in the day, I want

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Speaker 2: to say, back in the day, it seems like professionals

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Speaker 2: were sort of put on pedals, like before social media,

380
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Speaker 2: before we can really get an inside sweep on people's lives,

381
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Speaker 2: Like you just see someone like, oh, this person is

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Speaker 2: a doctor, so I make these assumptions about them in

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Speaker 2: their life. Both social media sort of breaking down those

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Speaker 2: barriers and giving us an inside swoop on certain aspects

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Speaker 2: of people, really celebrities and those types of professionals that

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Speaker 2: are in the public eye you see like, oh, they're

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Speaker 2: human too. And so the fact that you know, as

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Speaker 2: a therapist, you're saying you have your own therapist, I

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Speaker 2: think that is so incredible. And I remember one one

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Speaker 2: of my therapists when she had mentioned her own therapy.

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Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, I go to therapy too, And I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh damn, that's so dope. You know. I

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Speaker 2: think that it's endearing, you know, and it makes you

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Speaker 2: feel like, Okay, my therapist is doing their work too

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Speaker 2: and they're helping me out. It really makes it feel

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Speaker 2: like a communal effort, like no one's better than one,

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Speaker 2: you know, than the other person. You might be a

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Speaker 2: few steps ahead with more tools, and we're just all

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Speaker 2: helping each other like that. I think that's so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: So I love, love love that you share that. Okay,

401
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Speaker 2: So I want to get into some of the juicy stuff.

402
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Speaker 2: If you can't share anything, because this is just me

403
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Speaker 2: being nosy. If you can't share, just let us know down.

404
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Speaker 2: But okay, I think now watch too much TV. But

405
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Speaker 2: I'm thinking if not you, but if you have heard

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Speaker 2: of stories of a therapist that has had to like

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Speaker 2: set a boundary with a client or has had a

408
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Speaker 2: client that's like I was watching this show recently, like

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Speaker 2: the therapist was being stalked by a client. If a

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Speaker 2: therapist has a situation like that, what do they do?

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Speaker 1: So what I will say is that it depends on

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Speaker 1: your state and what the licensing boards for the laws

413
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Speaker 1: around how to proceed. Okay, I know you know in

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Speaker 1: most states, if you are being threatened by a client,

415
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Speaker 1: then you have the right to stay. We're terminating, like

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Speaker 1: I am no longer going to be your therapist, like

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Speaker 1: you at that point, you know, part of what we

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Speaker 1: are expected to do is to protect the client, but

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Speaker 1: all and protect. So we protect the client, we protect

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Speaker 1: the public, we protect the profession of mental health or psychology,

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Speaker 1: and then we protect ourselves. So it's what we call

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Speaker 1: like the four p's right, so patient, public, profession, psychologists,

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Speaker 1: and so for me, you know, like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of depending again, depending on your state, there are laws

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Speaker 1: that protect you as a psychologist or therapist.

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Speaker 3: If you are.

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Speaker 1: Being threatened in any way by a client, you have

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Speaker 1: the right to protect yourself and to say nope, you

429
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Speaker 1: are no longer at this point, you are no longer

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Speaker 1: my client, and then you can let authorities know what's happening.

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Speaker 2: That was actually gonna be My next question is like,

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Speaker 2: if you are ever in a situation and you have

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Speaker 2: a client and you're like, yo, this person's kind of creepy.

434
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Speaker 2: They're just like you, just getting uneasy feeling in sessions.

435
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Speaker 2: Depending on your state, it sounds like you are able

436
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Speaker 2: to set that boundary and let them know that you

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Speaker 2: can no longer work with them.

438
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: That's yeah, and you know, but I do want to

439
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: be clear that it's not just okay, this person is

440
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: being creepy. Because so as a therapist, if I have

441
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: a client who's sitting in front of me and I'm getting,

442
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: you know, to use like Layman's terms, you know, getting

443
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: creeper vibes from them, yeah, then I can't just on

444
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: that basis alone say I'm not gonna work with this

445
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: person anymore. Like there has to be like a real

446
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: credible threat to myself or someone else for me to

447
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: draw that boundary. Right, But as a therapist, if I'm

448
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: getting those vibes, then I believe that the onus is

449
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: on me to make a determination on how I'm going

450
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: to proceed. Am I going to call it out?

451
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: You know?

452
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: And when I say call it out? From how I

453
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: operate is that it's going to be done in a

454
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: loving way, right, So a compassionate way of saying, of

455
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: kind of reflecting back to that person, like here's how

456
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm feeling right now in this space with you, and

457
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: I wonder if other people in your world may also

458
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: feel the same way. So my perspective, you know, and

459
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: I keep emphasizing me and MI because not all therapists

460
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: operate the same. But my perspective is that unless I

461
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: am truly like there's credible evidence there of my safety

462
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: being threatened, and even then I still want to respond compassionately.

463
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. That's good to know too. And

464
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: what about when you think about your favorite part of

465
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: being a therapist, what would that be for you?

466
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: The privilege of being allowed into people's journeys, right, So,

467
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: like you know, like I think about for myself going

468
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: to therapy, how beautiful and helpful that is for my

469
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: own personal growth and development. And I recognize, just because

470
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: of my own experience, what that takes to show up

471
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: in the therapy space, and like I said, to lay

472
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: bare your all of your worries and your wishes, and

473
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: so for me, I just feel like so incredibly honored

474
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: when people say, all right, yeah, you know, I want

475
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: you as my therapist, Like it just feel like I recognize,

476
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: like the sacredness of that.

477
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: That's sounds so amazing, and I'm with you. It definitely

478
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: can be. It can definitely take a lot for some

479
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: people to get started on that journey. I know it

480
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: took me a long time, and it's such a beautiful

481
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: space to have, and I'd love to know. I can

482
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: only imagine, like what experiences people share with you, what

483
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: intimate details. I'm sure that in some cases you are

484
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: the only person that people have shared certain things in

485
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: their life with every which, like as you said, talk

486
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: about sacred, I mean a privilege and so sacred for folks.

487
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: Is it okay in your opinion as a therapist to

488
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: become emotional in this session? If a client is feeling

489
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: emotional because I feel like I've had differing experiences with therapists.

490
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: I've had some therapists that are like cold, like you

491
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: can tell that. I mean they're there, but they're like

492
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: stone cold, and it's like, okay, I can't. I don't

493
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: want to be emotion And I've had some that have

494
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: been a bit more emotional, like we're human, like this

495
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: is okay, what is your personal philosophy on that? Because

496
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: I know it can be tricky.

497
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: It can, and so for me, it's about it's nuanced,

498
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: So it's not going to be the same with every client,

499
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: and so for me, it truly is about the relationship

500
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: that I have with that individual client and the situation

501
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: that they're bringing up that's.

502
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: Bringing out my emotions.

503
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: Right, So you know when I talk about like that

504
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: mental juggling that as I'm present in the moment listening

505
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: to what they're sharing, I'm also processing, Like when emotions

506
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: come up for me, I'm simultaneously processing why is that

507
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: emotion coming up for me? Is it my sense of

508
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: empathy for the client? Like am I empathizing so much

509
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: with the client that is bringing out those emotions or

510
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: is it my own stuff? Like is it triggering my

511
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: own stuff, right, And in that case, that's this another

512
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: signal for me of like, oh, maybe I need to

513
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: process this in therapy, in my own therapy, because if

514
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: it's coming up in this way, in such an intense way,

515
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: maybe there's something there that I didn't realize was there

516
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: and I need to process right.

517
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: But also too.

518
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: Being mindful going back to like my relationship with my client,

519
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: being aware of what that emotion is that's coming up.

520
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: So like I think about clients that they've had some

521
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: injustice happen, and you know, they're sharing, and I find

522
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: myself getting angry, and so in those moments, I may

523
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: say I might you might not be able to visibly

524
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: see the anger, but I may reflect back to them

525
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: like you know what you're sharing, I can't imagine what

526
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: you might be going through. But for me right now,

527
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: like I'm becoming really angry for you as I'm hearing this,

528
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: and so I wonder what emotions are really coming up

529
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: for you as you reflect on this experience.

530
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: Oh that's beautiful, Dom. What I noticed about what you

531
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: just said is one you didn't project and say, damn, like,

532
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: I bet you're angry or you seem angry because it

533
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: came up for you. But then also the transparency of

534
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: a therapist to say, like, I just love the fact

535
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: that it's like I'm human, I felt for you and

536
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: I became angry with you sharing this. How do you

537
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: feel like putting it on them? I think that is

538
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: its beautiful and it sounds like the people that work

539
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: with you, I mean, I'm sure just knowing you, like

540
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: they're just lucky to be able to be in your

541
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: presence and have that experience. But that I think that

542
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: is incredible because I can only imagine other ways that

543
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: a therapist could process that. But to be so in

544
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: tune with yourself that that's how it's reflected when it

545
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: comes up, I think that is so beautiful.

546
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 3: Let me be clear and thank you. I do receive that.

547
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: I receive that, But I also want to be clear that.

548
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: That takes work.

549
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: For sure, that not every therapist is going to be

550
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: in that same space, but on my part, that has

551
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: taken work over the years and my own therapy to

552
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: make sure that I'm able to show up in this way.

553
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: Could have been something that you were not doing on

554
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: day one. So like it's a journey and it takes

555
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: time to get to mature and get to.

556
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: That level, which I think is why you go through training, right,

557
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: That's why it's called training, because you're learning, right, Like

558
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: I can remember one of my first clients was like

559
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: someone who I remember in session like she would like

560
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: make me angry, not it I don't, yes, yes intentionally

561
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: okay okay. And I just remember sitting with that and

562
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: just being.

563
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: Like one like just in wonderment of.

564
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: Why is this client like intentionally making me angry and

565
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: why am I letting that happen? And then I remember share, like,

566
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, like we're in our group setting, you know,

567
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: there all therapists and.

568
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: We're sharing it.

569
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this particular client, and then other folks

570
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: are chiming in, and then I find myself.

571
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: Defending her definitely client yeah, And.

572
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm like it gave me pause because I'm like, wait,

573
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: my classmates and fellow therapists are trying to show up

574
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: for me and support me and this client who's making

575
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: me angry, and here.

576
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 3: I am not taking their support.

577
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm defending her. And so then that made me kind

578
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: of pause and reflect and kind of get curious around waite,

579
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: why am I now defending her? Like what's really coming

580
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: up for me and what is this really saying.

581
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 3: About her therapy process?

582
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, I had a supervisor at

583
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: the time who was helping me think this through. And

584
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: the conclusion that we came to is that that was

585
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: her way of protecting herself, right, that she was so

586
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: used to being hurt that to protect herself from being hurt,

587
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: she would intentionally push people's buttons because that way she

588
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: felt like she had control. So if I know that

589
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: I'm intentionally pushing you away, when you walk away, it's

590
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: not going to hurt because I had control over you

591
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: walking away. And so when I stepped back and thought

592
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: about that, you know, I think having that opportunity to

593
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: process with other therapists and then having my supervisor also

594
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: there to help me really think things through, it allowed

595
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: me to go back into that space with that particular

596
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: client and again just kind of talk to her about

597
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: how I was experiencing her, but also my interpretation of

598
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: how I was experiencing her. And then once I was

599
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: able to do that, that changed the dynamic in our

600
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: therapy relationship. And so for me, what that the lesson

601
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: that that taught me early on is that there's always

602
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: information in how the clients show up, and that also

603
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: I have to as a therapist, I am also an

604
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: instrument in that space that how I'm showing up can

605
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: provide me with information as well to enhance that therapy relationship.

606
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 2: That is so intriguing. Thank you so much for sharing that.

607
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm just I was sitting there, like thinking about being

608
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: in a situation like that where Okay, this person that

609
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 2: came to therapist and I'm the therapist, they trying and

610
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: fuck with me what's going on here? Like that's what

611
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 2: I got, And I was just like WHOA, Like, dang,

612
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: that's interesting. But thank you for sharing that. I'm happy

613
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: to hear that it did come out to like you

614
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: all found a positive outcome with you sort of leading

615
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 2: the way. I want to ask you one more question

616
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 2: before we dive into the actual steps involved to become

617
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: a psychologist. Have you ever had a situation where like

618
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: someone comes to therapy but they're literally just not saying anything,

619
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: and you're like you got like full teeth.

620
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's not foreign. That's not foreign

621
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: to be at all.

622
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: I can only imagine, especially with this being such a

623
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: vulnerable process for folks. I guess what are you like

624
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: top two. I don't know strategies on how to get

625
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 2: someone to open up when you're in that space silence.

626
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: So one of the things that they teach us in

627
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: therapy is how to or in graduate school, is how

628
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: to be okay with silence. Now, that is when I

629
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: will say that is one skill that I had to practice, is.

630
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: Sitting in that silence.

631
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when you write and so, like, I think

632
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: about how now it's so, you know, as we're recording this,

633
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: we're still in zoomlandia, And I think about sometimes how

634
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: when I'm in work meetings and it's just a bunch

635
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: of therapists and there's silence, and how it's always fascinating

636
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: to me to see who moves first to break the silence.

637
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: But I think that that's something that we're all kind

638
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: of thinking too, because we're all.

639
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: Used to it.

640
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we're trained to get comfortable in that silence

641
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: because what can happen is that that gives the client

642
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: time to like kind of reflect on what it is

643
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: they want to say next, or what we just got

644
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: through talking about, and then also selfishly, you know, for

645
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: the therapist, that also gives the therapist a chance to

646
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 1: kind of process where do we want to go next?

647
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: Like taking like it gives a therapist a moment to

648
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: take a breath. I'm trying to think of the longest

649
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: silence that I've held with a client, and I can't remember,

650
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: but it's been a few It's been like it was minutes.

651
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 3: M wow.

652
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: And you know, I think about time. I mean, you say,

653
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: one minute, lady, put your timer on. If you don

654
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: even one minute, it's a long time to be silent,

655
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: and like with someone in a session, it's a long time.

656
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: And so and so you know what I usually do

657
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: is I might I'll look away m hmm, like because

658
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: I could I know that if I like, if we're

659
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: having some a silent pause and I'm looking at the

660
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: client directly at the client then to me that and

661
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: sometimes that kind of feels like a power play of

662
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: if I'm just sitting there staring, it's like, okay, so

663
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna say something like say something like I want

664
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: you to say something right exactly And if you heard

665
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 1: the slight inflection in my tone, that's where that power

666
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: play kind of comes in. And so I, you know,

667
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: I might occasionally glance back at the client to kind

668
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: of get a quick read of where they are, like

669
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: their body language. But I generally you know, and I

670
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 1: and I say this, I'm thinking about like when we're

671
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: in person like looking away m h.

672
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: But even in zoom like and actually in.

673
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: Zoom I haven't I'm not necessarily recalling that being a

674
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: common occurrence in zoom like doing therapy, like the teletherapy,

675
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: but it's it's in common with in the work meeting environment.

676
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting. And as far as you know,

677
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 2: we've we've talked a lot about your experience. We've talked

678
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: about some of the different situations that you've been in

679
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 2: and also just some of the I want to say,

680
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 2: pro tips that you've gleaned in your journey of being

681
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: a therapist. Can we talk a bit about the steps

682
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: involved in becoming a should we say therapists or psychologists?

683
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: Cause I'm thinking there might be a lady listening who's like, Oh,

684
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued. I want to get into this field, so we.

685
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: Can do both, right, So what I can so, what

686
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: I can say is that so my personal trajectory was

687
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: that I got a bachelor's degree in psychology and then

688
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: I got a master's degree in community counseling and then

689
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: a doctorate in counseling psychology, and my doctorate is a PhD.

690
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: Now there's also aside.

691
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: And so you could go that route or you could

692
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: also go the route of clinical psychology. Either way, you're

693
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: getting a doctorate, right, if you want to be a psychologist,

694
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: you're getting a doctorate back in the date because and

695
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how much this still this happens now

696
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: because it's been a while since I've looked into it,

697
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: but I know back in the day there were doctorate

698
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: programs that were edd so doctorates of education. But again

699
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: I haven't done the research in that to know the

700
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: latest programs that are still open that are offering that.

701
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: Most programs that I'm aware of are either offering acid

702
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: or a PhD. So that means you have a doctorate.

703
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: For therapists other mental health professionals, if they are a

704
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: master's level clinician, then that means that they have a

705
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: bachelor's preferably in psychology or sociology or something along those lines.

706
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: But it's not a mandate, right, So, like I know,

707
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: like I I had classmates in my master's program who

708
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: had I think somebody had a bachelor's degree in English.

709
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: I want to say somebody had a degree.

710
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: Their bachelor's was in biology, but they took the necessary

711
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: psychology courses to prepare them for graduate school. And you know,

712
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: one thing I will say to folks, particularly students who

713
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: are in undergrad right now, that your undergrad experience is

714
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: not the same thing as your graduate experience. And I

715
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: would say that that is for like, no matter what

716
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: your professional degree is, that in undergrad, like you're taking

717
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: a lot of different courses that aren't necessarily directly related

718
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: to your field of studying. Right, However, I would say

719
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: that they enhance what you're studying. So I think about, like,

720
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: I went to a liberal arts college, and the courses

721
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 1: that I took in undergrad, you know, it was also

722
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: a Jesuit school, so I have to take religion classes

723
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: and extra philosophy classes, and so the things that these

724
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: courses that I took, while they are not directly related

725
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: to psychology, they helped shaped.

726
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: My way of thinking, right and.

727
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: Provided me with other perspectives. So after you get the

728
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: bachelor's degree, like, depending on which field you want to

729
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: go into, that makes the determination of whether or not

730
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: you get a master's and then you keep going for

731
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: a doctorate or if you're okay with what in academia

732
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: we call a terminal master's degree, so you can get

733
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: your master's degree and then take your necessary necessary steps

734
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: towards licensure. But that depends so on what you're trying

735
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: to pursue.

736
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: So if we were to kind of break it down

737
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: into chunks. After let's say after high school you went

738
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: to college and got your bachelor's that was.

739
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 3: Four years yep.

740
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: So when you get the doctor you're kind of getting

741
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: a master's on the way or.

742
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: No, depends on your program, so you can the route

743
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: that I took. I got my master's, I had a

744
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: terminal master's degree. So I have classmates who didn't go

745
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: on for their doctorate and they are licensed clinicians now

746
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: with their master's degree.

747
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: Oh cool, okay.

748
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah two years. Yeah, that was two years.

749
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah okay.

750
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: And then but I went on for my doctorate and

751
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: the program that I was in required a master's degree first.

752
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: There are some programs that you can get into right

753
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: out of undergrad and earn your masters along the way.

754
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: So to me, my best recommendation is to really just

755
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: do the research yep, and be thorough in that research

756
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: to kind of understand what it is that you want

757
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: to do and knowing your situation right. So, like I

758
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: know that there are some schools where you can pursue

759
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: your graduate degree part time, so you can be working

760
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: a full time job and then take your classes on

761
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: the side. The programs that I went to didn't allow

762
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: for that. They weren't created for that. Like the expectation

763
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: was that you were going to be a full time

764
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: student exactly.

765
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. It so sounds like the years

766
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: of school that will differ based on the program, but

767
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: also which sort of track you take. For you, So

768
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: you did your four year, you did your four year back,

769
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to I'm calculating how many years of

770
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 2: school after high school for you?

771
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: Ten?

772
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 2: Okay, so after bachelors you did two masters and then

773
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: for more for the doctor okay, so ten years okay, Well.

774
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 3: And that's at a minimum. Some people take longer.

775
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: Oh wow, but you went straight through. Did you take

776
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: me break?

777
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: Yees?

778
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 4: No?

779
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: Break?

780
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: Wow?

781
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Well, dond this was definitely super fun. I

782
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 2: don't want to put you on the spot, but I

783
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: want to ask about in case someone is thinking about

784
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: this and they want to know about salary. Is there

785
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: a place they can go, because I'm sure it'll vary

786
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: based on your role and the state. Is there like

787
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: a resource or something that we can bee adding the

788
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: show notes where they can kind of get an estimate

789
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: or arrange on like Okay, if I do I go

790
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: this route, you know what will my salary be? And

791
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 2: things of that nature.

792
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I will give them the resource that I

793
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: use back in the day, like when we need to

794
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: bring this full circle. So when we were talking about

795
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: like how did I make that decision research that I

796
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: did now, back in the day when I was in

797
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: high school, it wasn't the internet wasn't the thing that

798
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: it is today, So we had to actually go to

799
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: the library and go through the stack. I use this

800
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 1: at the time. It was a book called the Occupational

801
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: Outlook Handbook, and now it's all online. You can easily

802
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: access it. You type in the career that you're considering,

803
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: and then they break it down for you. They provide

804
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: you with information on what kind of salary to expect,

805
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: what education requirements you might need. You can even look

806
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: like now because it's online, it's interactive in terms of

807
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: like you can look and get information by state, so

808
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's really it's a robust amount

809
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: of information that they have on that website.

810
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: Now, all right, lady, you heard it here from doctor Don.

811
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: That is super super valuable and thank you so much

812
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: for sharing your journey with us.

813
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 3: Dom.

814
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 2: If we have any listening ladies that want to sign

815
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 2: up to vet you so that you can become their

816
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: therapist or they're like, you know what you sold me

817
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: on this interview, doctor Dom, let me let me go

818
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: ahead and start working with you. How can they find

819
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 2: you and start the process.

820
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: So if you reside in the state of California, you

821
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 1: can check out my website at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

822
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: So that d R D O M I N I

823
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: q U E B R O U S S A

824
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: r D dot com.

825
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: And we'll also add that link in the show notes

826
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: as well, ladies, so you can just click on that

827
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: link and get you some Dr Dom. Right, sit on

828
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: the couch and have a conversation. Again, Doctor Dom, thank

829
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: you so much for sharing with us. This is so

830
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: insightful and lady Yay, it's so funny when we interview

831
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: each other, it's always like Yes, this feels so weird,

832
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: but this was so cool. I really enjoyed it. And lady,

833
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 2: we're gonna hop on over to Patreon to dig into

834
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 2: the after show, so make sure you visit our website

835
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: Herspace podcast dot com, click on that link in the

836
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: top that says Patreon, and join us for the after show.

837
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 4: Hey, lady, it's doctor Dom here from the Cultivating her

838
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,959
Speaker 4: Space Podcast. Do you have a burning question you're dying

839
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 4: to get feedback on? Do you want an unbiased perspective

840
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 4: on a situation you're facing? If so, visit cultivatinghirspace dot

841
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 4: com and click ask doctor Dom under the start here option.

842
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 4: Every Tuesday, I'll choose a few questions and answer them

843
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 4: at random. Thanks for joining us today. Please note that

844
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 4: our show may contain conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment,

845
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 4: and mental health, but is by no means meant to

846
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 4: be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a

847
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 4: trained mental health provider. If you are someone you know

848
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 4: is in need of mental health care, please visit a

849
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 4: Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or contact your

850
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 4: insurance provider.

851
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

852
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: the conversation going. Visit our website, cultivatinghearspace dot com, and

853
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 2: be sure to click the Patreon tab to get access

854
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show and

855
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,879
Speaker 2: before we meet again repete after me. I am doing

856
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: the best I can with the understanding knowledge and awareness

857
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: I have at this moment.