WEBVTT - The Astrologer Who Managed The Reagan Presidency 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:09.440 Hello everyone, and welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:11.560 show where we tell you everything you don't know about 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.400 the very worst people in all of history. I'm Robert Evans. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.120 My guess this week are Amalia Lambert and Tess Lynch 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:21.599 from the wonderful podcast Night Call. They're also writers and 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.920 people about Town is His's Golden Gloves Boxers. I think 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.760 we settled on just more accomplished people than me, is 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.800 what's important for you to know for your purposes. And 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.479 this week we are talking about someone who might be 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.120 controversial on this podcast, So I want to lead in 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.280 here before we introduce the subject by talking about my methodology, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.800 because we're about a dozen episodes or so. In so far, 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.560 the focus on this podcast has always been the worst 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.159 people in history, which I define as the shittiest one 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.720 percent of human beings who have ever lived. Now, there's 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.480 about one hundred and seven billion people in the total 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.360 estimated human population, which gives us a big pool to 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.360 draw from, which is how I can internally justify covering 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.240 Adolf Hitler one week and Harvey Weinstein the next, even 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.240 though they're not, you know, quite on the same spectrum 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:12.360 of awfal. So our next subject today hasn't killed anybody, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.000 she didn't cause a genocide, she's not a mass rapist. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.200 I still think I can justify putting her in that 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.600 top one percent, although she's probably near the bottom of 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.720 that one percent. Have y'all ever heard of a lady 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.160 named Joan Quiggly? No, sounds familiar, But I don't know why. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.760 I thought you were going to say, like Margaret Thatcher. No, 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.600 because she's got blood on her Yeah, she said in 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.959 the bottom of the one percent. I was like, there's 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.039 totally a Margaret Thatcher episode. But she's more in the middle, right, 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.720 She's up there, Joan Quiggly, Joan Quiggly. Now, Joan Quigley 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.280 does have a little bit of a connection to Margaret 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.600 Thatcher because Joan Quigley has a very deep connection to 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:58.520 Ronald Reagan because Joan Quigley was Ronald Reagan's astrologer. Really yep, yeah, 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.880 I can't wait. We're in so. I we were talking 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.720 about it today because I read her book and it 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.760 made me really hate her, And I don't know, some 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.000 people may disagree that she's terrible, So we'll get into 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.520 that too. Part of this podcast will be y'all telling 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.280 me if I'm a crazy person judging her unfairly, or 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.840 if you guys think she's awful too. But regardless of 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.640 what we conclude, I've named this episode Joan Quiggly History's 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:29.320 greatest monster. So let's dive into it. Joan Cecil Quigley 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.320 was born in Kansas City, Missouri, on April tenth, nineteen 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.160 twenty seven, at four to seventeen PM. That time is 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.120 critical because if you don't know the exact minute of 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.320 someone's birth, you can't properly cast their horoscope. This is 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.959 something I learned by reading four hundred pages of Joan Quigley. 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.120 Explain astrology to me. You read the whole thing? Oh yeah, no, 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.960 I have. Of course she a good writer. No, oh, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.600 she's not. I'll give it in fairness, she's not like 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.239 bad like it's not. I'm not. I was never distracted 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.800 by the writing quality of the book. How did you 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.440 decide to read that? I realized that Ronald Reagan's astrologer 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.240 had written a book, and then I bought it. How 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.520 did you find out Ronald Reagan had an astrologer? I 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.040 was drunk and browsing the internet at some point, and 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.440 like I came across some little listical article talking about 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.120 like wacky facts about US presidents. I think that's I 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.359 remember that. She was also an astrologer to several other 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.000 notable people. Was she an astrologer to the stars? Yes, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.320 oh yes, yes, yeah, I know, I know a little bit, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.200 but I don't know enough. Keep telling us. Yeah, well yeah. 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.799 So Jones' father, John was a former lawyer who moved 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.720 to San Francisco and bought a fancy hotel. His wife 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.520 is named Zelda, which is like, if you know the 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.160 nineteen twenties, that's like the name to have if you're 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.600 a rich lady. It's like, that's like Jackson is today, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:48.200 Jackson Jackson. Oh god, yeah, just jack Like they're all 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:53.160 club promoters. Okay. Yeah. So he and his wife Zelda 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.320 raised their daughters as high society ladies. They had a 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.480 penthouse on Knob Hill in San Francisco and went to 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.360 a private school. The Quigly Girls, as they were known, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.520 had chauffeurs to take them to school. Parties generally enrolls royces. 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.720 In her obituary, The Los Angeles Times said that she 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.800 had quote come from the Creme de la creme of 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.880 San Francisco, gentility and her fancy, rich lady bonafides would 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.160 prove critical in earning her Nancy Reagan's trust. Joan went 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.160 to Vassar. She got a degree in art history. Her 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.440 mom was apparently an astrology nerd, and that's where Joan 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.599 caught the bug. She spent a year as a secret 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.720 apprentice to a soothsayer named Jerome Pearson. Her dad hated astrology, 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.359 and so she had to hide her chart making and 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.599 star watching while publicly doing normal aristocratic stuff like whatever 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.960 the Junior League is. I don't know what the junior 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.320 League is. Probably you dance with people, dance with other 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.240 rich people, like Catilians, but with a sportier sounding name. Yeah, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.000 that's my guess. Katillion is the only word that came 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.240 into my mind when I read Junior league. I don't 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.600 even know what one is. It's a club for rich people. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.440 I wonder if it's only women. Like the picture in 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.320 my head is that scene from Gone with the Wind 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.240 where the lady in the big dress descends the staircase. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.840 something rich people do so they can hang out and 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.520 wear fancy clothes. Do you have to wear a bustle? Ye? 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.800 It's probably kind of racist. Oh, definitely, there's no Yeah, yeah, okay. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.960 So once Joan is out of college in junior league 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:11.640 or whatever and moves out of her dad's house, she 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.919 starts writing an astrology column for seventeen magazine, which I 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.280 didn't realize went back that far. And what year is this? 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.039 Like the forties? Yeah, this is in like the forties seventeen, 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.120 which back in the forties. Yeah, yeah, because they had 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.480 just invented teenagers, right, yeah, they're like, now they need 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.440 a magazine. Oh, people who live in past twelve. I 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.400 guess we gotta figure the thing out. Her gig at 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.839 seventeen didn't last long, though, because she didn't like writing 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.360 horoscopes for tabloids. She runted to read the stars of 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.520 the rich and famous and was kind of disgusted by 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.080 the idea that poor people might use astrology. I should 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.280 ask you this point, are either of y'all into astrology? 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.920 I mean, tangentially. We've done a couple of night calls 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.039 where we talked about astrology a bunch and sort of 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.400 why it's interesting whether you believe in it or not. 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.440 I personally do not believe in it, but I've also 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.279 said it's probably some of a a virgo and the boring 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.479 is and I love virgos, and I specifically aimed for 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.760 a virgo with one of my kids. Got locked down 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.200 that ago very please, how do you aim for that? 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.000 You know? Noulate, N Well, it's really more like ten. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.760 Oh yeah, what do you think about astrology? I'm not 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.599 into astrology, but I like a good friend of mine 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.120 for back home in Texas who's like an accountant, is 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.400 really into astrology. It's just one of those grounded people 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.279 I know. So I don't think an issue. Well, what's 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.160 your sign's entertaining? If I may, I don't. I don't know. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.720 What's your birthday? March? March? What? Twenty second? I think 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.520 you're a Pisces. Maybe I'm wrong. I have no true 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.160 astrology nerd would know. I know, but I you know, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.760 we talked about this, liked it. It's like, even though 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.080 I don't believe in or like astrology, especially if you 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:39.799 live in Los Angeles, you meet a lot of people 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.320 but maybe are into astrology. There's also a thing I 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.160 don't like where people are sort of like misogynistic about like, oh, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.120 women are so dumb they believe in astrology. Plenty of 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.680 men believe in astrology. There's plenty of dumb men who 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.240 believe in astrology. There's plenty of dumb men who believe 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.800 in it, like trickle down economics. I think it's like 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.360 it's like sports or something. It's just like a thing 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.240 to keep life more entertain than it is. I'll tell you, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.240 I believe in it way more than I believe in chakras. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.000 When people get and I'm just like, Wow, they took 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.560 you for a fool, because astrology you can, you know, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.840 entertain yourself with for free, so it can't actually be that. Yeah, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.920 I think so we've decided as soon as you're spending 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.360 money on it, then it's a day. Yeah. Yeah, And 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.200 that that's kind of how I feel about it. Like 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.440 I don't have any issue and I I like, I 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.400 tried to as I edited this podcast make sure that 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.880 I was not just attacking people astrology, because like, it's 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.960 whatever you get do to get through the day. I've 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.320 I've been superstitious about stuff when I've been in whatever, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.559 when you need it. Sometimes, yes, life, anything you're into. 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.480 If you're doing it for Ronald Reagan, you're on the 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.920 wrong side of amen, Well that may be one. And 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.720 I'm also I'm trying to be fair to the Reagan's 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.120 in this, although I'm not a Ronald Reagan fans. You 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.920 do a history podcast about history, A's greatest monster we're 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.840 going to cover. We're going to hit on the Reagans 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.600 on this, but I think they're I think they're victims 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.840 of Joan Quickly in this, and we'll get to that 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.080 in a second. Like we like Joan Quickly, Now, yeah, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.360 who scams the scammers? Ye? This is a complicated one. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.480 If it was just one other person sitting here, that 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.760 wouldn't but two other people, I feel like we can 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.800 make the historical judgment. I think I didn't finish school, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.320 so I don't know how historians make judgments, but I 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.920 think this is it. I'm absolutely positive that this is 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.000 exactly how it should be done. Fantastic. Okay. So Joan 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.320 didn't like doing horoscopes for poor people, and didn't like 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.680 doing horoscopes for anyone who could just afford to buy 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.160 a magazine. Her obituary in The Economist notes that quote 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.240 she did not make forecasts or cast up horoscopes for 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.199 ordinary people, only for corporate figures, celebrities, and those who 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.720 guided the destinies of nations. I wish the economist was 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.200 exaggerating about that. The sad truth is that Joan Quigley 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:46.520 was probably the most influential astrologer of the twentieth century. Now, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.439 Donald Reagan was Ronald Reagan's Treasury Secretary starting in nineteen 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.720 eighty one and the White House Chief of Staff from 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.640 nineteen eighty five to eighty seven. And it's real funny 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.040 that Donald Reagan worked so closely with Ronald Reagan. Were 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.719 they related? So their last names are spelled differently? What 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:06.000 Donald Reagan is ourg Donald Reagan? Yeah, Donald Reagan. I'm 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.280 gonna call him Donald. Yeah, I should call him Donald Reagan. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.719 Still yeah, still confusing. So yeah, Donald Reagan was the 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.640 chief of staff, which is like, that's a big job. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.880 That was Steve Bannon's job until like a year ago. Now, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.120 Jesus Christ, Okay, So Donald Reagan was the White House 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.200 Chief of Staff from eighty five to eighty seven. He 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.200 was a big trickle down economics guy. He was very 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.319 importantly the administration. But he was forced to resign in 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.240 nineteen eighty seven because he couldn't protect the President from 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.559 the fallout of the Iran Contra affair. So in nineteen 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.760 eighty eight, he published a memoir called for the Record, 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.199 where he revealed to the world the White House's quote 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.359 most closely guarded secret. No, not Ronald Reagan's growing senility. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.920 Not the fact that we've been selling missiles too. Iran 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.840 joan quickly, this is a quote from Donald Reagan. Virtually 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.320 every major move and decision that Reagan's made during my 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.160 time as White House Chief of staff was cleared in 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.240 advance with a woman in San Francisco who drew up 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.640 horoscopes to make certain that the planets were in favorable 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.360 alignment for the enterprise, can tinued, would that there had 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.680 been some other explanation, But there wasn't astrology, was it. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.800 It was a daily, sometimes hourly factor in every decision 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:12.079 affecting the President's schedule. What what I didn't know anything. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.400 I love this. I didn't know the depth of this. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.360 Was she like living at the White House? Or was 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.880 she just was he calling from San Francisco? It was 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.040 Nancy who would call, Yeah, and we'll well, we'll get 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.920 into a little bit about how it worked. But yeah, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.319 like she notes a number of times in her memoirir 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.280 and Donald Reagan backs it up. She had absolute control 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.280 of her when Air Force one took off and landed, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.720 she could make it circle in the sky if she 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.840 wanted it to land at a different time, because the 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.280 stars said that was better. Well, hey, she went to Vassar, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.920 she had her art history degree. She obviously knew a 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.120 thing or two. Yeah, yeah, no, the am Vassa is 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.319 famous for its air force. That's what I meant undergraduate. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.440 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, strategy sounds like a nightmare. But 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.280 also I'm like, wow, I didn't know the Reagans had 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:02.040 like a restputant. Yeah, it's very rare, like a lady Rasputant. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.240 So I'm also maybe I like respect her as a 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.640 history scammer. If Joe had moved to d C and 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.720 been fucking all I guess the husbands in DC of 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.360 all of the powerful government people like Resputant did to 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.560 the ladies in the noble court in Russia, this would 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.360 be a very different podcast. In fact, she had to 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.760 do so much less work working remotely. You know, you 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.959 can't be understated how great they draw up the stars. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.959 Yeah yeah, and she was not shot and drowned in 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.600 the Volga, which is spoiler, sorry, but you probably should 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.360 have been. Yeah, it wouldn't have been the worst thing 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.559 so far. I'm not really hating this lady. But let's 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.080 keep going. Let's let's get into a little bit. So 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.000 Donald notes that nobody other than some people very close 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.520 to the president knew about this relationship, including his Secret 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.560 Service detail. He even sort of mentions that he thinks 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.280 they'd be kind of pissed to realize that, after all 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.720 their years of carefully guarding the president, like Nancy, had 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:59.840 been talking about his moves ahead of time with this 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.120 astrologer over an unsecured phone line. He said, quote, surely 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.880 they would think that posed a security risk, which it did, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.120 and that'll be a thing later. It actually kind of 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:14.839 led to a grand Soviet US astrology duel. But that's 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.440 a moment for I'm yeah, that's for later in the podcast. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:22.200 I'm getting out of myself. Yeah, So, when mister Reagan 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.040 dropped the truth about President Reagan's astrologer, it hit Capitol 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.440 Hill like a bomb. The story sort of faded to 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.760 just a general political fable. Now, like I think most 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.439 people vaguely hear that the Reagans were into astrology, but 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.040 they don't know much about it. But at the time 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.360 it was as huge as story as it would be now, 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.079 although now it would only be a story for a 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.640 day and a half that best, maybe not even that. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.080 So Nancy Reagan insisted that it hadn't been a big deal. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.000 She claimed that her use of Joan had just been 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.439 a silly affectation, nothing serious. This made Joan very angry 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.319 in her mind. Not only had she not hurt the Reagans, 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.760 her astrology had been the secret power behind the throne. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:57.920 So Joan decided to write a memoir of her own, 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.400 and on March first, nineteen ninety, she published what does 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.080 Joan Say? My seven years is White House Astrologer to 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.719 Nancy and Ronald Reagan. This is the book that I 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.360 read for this podcast, What does Jones Say? What does 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:13.319 Jones John? About three hundred something pages, had a lot 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.520 to say. I don't think it sold well. I wound 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.760 up having to order a very old hardcover copy of 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.600 it that had never been opened. There's no kindle edition 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.680 of it, so I had to underline the words the 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.920 old fashioned way. It was terrible taking notes on books 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.360 before Kendall's strenuous Yeah. Anyway, Joan made me work because 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.240 her book wasn't a success, and I may hate her 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.040 for that. She opens her memoir by saying, this is 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.880 a book I never thought I would write, which I 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.520 think is a lie because she published it really quickly 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.080 after Nancy Reagan's memoir. Joan claims that when Donald Reagan 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.480 spilled the beans on her existence quote, I rejected all 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.880 suggestions that I document my Reagan years. I said as 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.040 little as possible to the media. I tried above alt 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.680 to keep from damaging the president I had admired and 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.560 served for seven years with total dedication. But then she 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.880 claims that Nancy Reagan's memoire, My Turn, forced her to reconsider. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.000 She said it reads like fiction, and much of it 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.120 as evasive. That is the beginning of what would become 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.000 several hundred pages of throwing shade at Nancy Reagan. To 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.840 my eyes, Jones memoir serves two purposes. Number one to 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.720 allow her to take credit for every achievement of the 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.920 Reagan era, and number two, to shit on Nancy Reagan. Now. 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:19.200 I know at this point you might be wondering how 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.440 credible is this lady, and obviously she's an unreliable narrator, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.400 but multiple people do back up the fact that she 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.800 not only advised the president, she was actually the arbiter 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.520 of his schedule. Donald Reagan, who was again chief of 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.000 staff and would know, admitted in his memoirs that Joan 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.480 had total control over win Air Force one took offen landed. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.920 He wrote that he, or in this case, she, who 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.160 controls the president's schedule, controls the workings of the presidency, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.280 which seems accurate. In his book The Acting President, CBS 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.240 correspondent Bob Scheffer related a story that also backs up 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.920 Jones's importance. This is Bob Sheefer. The only real hitch 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.360 the campaign team had to deal with during those weeks 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.280 of planning in the fall of nineteen eighty three was 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.680 a conflict over when the president should formally declare his 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.160 Candidacylee Water in particular, wanted it done right away, but 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440 he was repeatedly told that Miss Reagan did not feel 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.240 the time for that announcement was propreties. I think it's propitious, propitious, 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.200 thank you. That baffled him, and when he finally continued 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.600 to press for an explanation, Michael Deaver took him aside 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.760 and disclosed that Nancy's reluctance was based on the astrologer's warning. 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.000 So there's a lot a number of people. You can 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:20.960 find stories of saying that, like, yeah, we had to 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:22.640 change the time at the last minute, or we had 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.600 to do something at like midnight or three in the 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.320 morning or whatever, and when they would trace it back 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.680 because Nancy Reagan said, no, he can't go out at 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.360 that hour, like he has to go out now, or 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.800 he has to do this now. Was this because Joan 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.600 was insinuating that he would be assassinated if he Okay, 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.240 bingo boiler, Sorry no, no, no, this is this is 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.680 like immediately the next paragraph. So no, you landed on it. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.400 So I'm going to get into how this weird little 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.720 relationship started. It kicked off in the nineteen seventies because 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.000 Joan was on the MURV Griffin show. Murf Griffin was 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.280 I be fair to call him like a late light host, right, Yeah, 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:02.040 like Jimmy Fallon of his era, but probably more talented. Yeah, 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.720 and I'm sorry if there's Jimmy Fallon fans out there, 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:10.640 I mean, he's history's greatest monster yeah at this point. Yeah, 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.400 but yeah, MERV Griffin, you know, was one of those 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.560 really connected people. So he liked Joan quickly, and she 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.720 did his astrology a bunch, and he also knew an 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.080 actress named Nancy Reagan, and he knew wh her back 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.400 when she was an actress and her husband was an actor, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.920 and then he continued to know them after her husband 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.840 became the governor of California. Mervy knew that Nancy believed 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.400 in astrology. Joan claims he asked if he could give 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.560 her number to Nancy, and she said yes. This is 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.240 from Joan. The first time Nancy consulted me mostly about 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.240 personal problems. She had given me her exact birth time, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.080 so doing her horoscope was easy. I remember I described 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.160 to her in detail the matter that she intended asking 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.120 me about before she asked it. From the beginning, my 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.440 accuracy impressed her. So Joan did her work on Nancy, 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.040 and Nancy was astonished at you know, how well it 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.600 worked or whatever, And so they had a little relationship 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.760 going on for a while. The Reagan's had always superstitious. 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.320 In nineteen sixty seven, when Ronnie was inaugurated as governor, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.919 his inauguration was scheduled for twelve ten am in the 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.040 morning at the advice of a different astrologer. So like 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.320 this has been a thing in their life for a while. 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.600 So in nineteen eighty Reagan ran for president. One. In 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.280 her memoire, Nancy claims that Joan volunteered her services, which 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.280 just amounted to a few phone calls and advice on 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.119 wind to time certain events. Joan, however, claims that she 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:29.160 advised the Reagans extensively, particularly during then candidate Reagan's first 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.399 presidential debate with a guy named John Anderson. Anderson has 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.320 been forgotten and buried in history, as we all will 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.679 be someday, but he was Ronald Reagan's opponent in his 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.919 first debate, and this was important because Ronald Reagan was 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.480 a very old presidential candidate. No one had ever been 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.280 sixty nine and running for president before, so it was 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.880 important that he looked good and not seem old. Joan 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.440 took great care in timing their debate. She also claims 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.879 that she warned Nancy that the stars had told her 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.680 that someone was going to tamper with Ronald Reagan's microphone, 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.520 and apparently, according to Joan, Nancy found that the microphone 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.639 had been tampered with and turned down, and Jones says 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.600 that if Ronald had used the microphone without fixing it, 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:11.359 he would have sounded weak and therefore old what it 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.480 makes sense? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of age 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.400 shaming to say that that weakness and age are correlated. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.560 But I guess she's not necessarily wrong. I mean, we 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.480 also saw how that can be wielded very powerfully in 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:30.399 a presidential campaign. Weakness and age and you know, fallibility. Yeah, 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.520 like that's that. This is one of the ones where 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.480 I want to like attack her, but she may not 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.280 be wrong about it, right, I kind of think she's 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.040 But also, like, what if the mic wasn't turned down 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.679 and they just turned his mic up? You know, so 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.280 he was allowed to me to be a smart move. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.399 That's still a smart move. Yeah, And this is Nancy 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.680 doesn't say anything about this, so I don't. It's we're 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.119 kind of have to take Jones's word that this microphone 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.440 thing happened. She does, however, take credit for Ronald winning 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.240 his debate against Carter, or rather, she says, I cannot 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.639 claim any credit for his winning the Carter debate. However, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.000 I was definitely responsible for Carter's losing that crucial contest, 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.680 because she claimed she picked an astrological time that made 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.720 it impossible for Carter to win. Is sort of the 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.840 inauguration of her taking credit for everything that happens during 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:18.399 this time. So Ronald Reagan was elected, and Joan stopped 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.800 hearing from Nancy Reagan because at this point, you know, 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.720 Ronald Reagan's the president, and all the president's advisors are saying, 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.760 don't associate with astrologers. That's going to end badly for 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.280 us politically. If you know we're people, find out that 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.320 you're consulting an astrologer on things, it's just not going 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.680 to be good. But then on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one, 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.280 some guy shot President Reagan in a vital area his body. 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.199 President Reagan nearly died. I don't really like Nancy Reagan, 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.959 particularly her involvement in the War on drugs, but one 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.480