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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the

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Speaker 1: show where we tell you everything you don't know about

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Speaker 1: the very worst people in all of history. I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: My guess this week are Amalia Lambert and Tess Lynch

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Speaker 1: from the wonderful podcast Night Call. They're also writers and

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Speaker 1: people about Town is His's Golden Gloves Boxers. I think

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Speaker 1: we settled on just more accomplished people than me, is

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Speaker 1: what's important for you to know for your purposes. And

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Speaker 1: this week we are talking about someone who might be

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Speaker 1: controversial on this podcast, So I want to lead in

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Speaker 1: here before we introduce the subject by talking about my methodology,

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Speaker 1: because we're about a dozen episodes or so. In so far,

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Speaker 1: the focus on this podcast has always been the worst

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Speaker 1: people in history, which I define as the shittiest one

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Speaker 1: percent of human beings who have ever lived. Now, there's

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and seven billion people in the total

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Speaker 1: estimated human population, which gives us a big pool to

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Speaker 1: draw from, which is how I can internally justify covering

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Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler one week and Harvey Weinstein the next, even

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Speaker 1: though they're not, you know, quite on the same spectrum

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Speaker 1: of awfal. So our next subject today hasn't killed anybody,

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Speaker 1: she didn't cause a genocide, she's not a mass rapist.

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Speaker 1: I still think I can justify putting her in that

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Speaker 1: top one percent, although she's probably near the bottom of

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Speaker 1: that one percent. Have y'all ever heard of a lady

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Speaker 1: named Joan Quiggly? No, sounds familiar, But I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, like Margaret Thatcher. No,

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Speaker 1: because she's got blood on her Yeah, she said in

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the one percent. I was like, there's

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Speaker 1: totally a Margaret Thatcher episode. But she's more in the middle, right,

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Speaker 1: She's up there, Joan Quiggly, Joan Quiggly. Now, Joan Quigley

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Speaker 1: does have a little bit of a connection to Margaret

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Speaker 1: Thatcher because Joan Quigley has a very deep connection to

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan because Joan Quigley was Ronald Reagan's astrologer. Really yep, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait. We're in so. I we were talking

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Speaker 1: about it today because I read her book and it

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Speaker 1: made me really hate her, And I don't know, some

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Speaker 1: people may disagree that she's terrible, So we'll get into

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Speaker 1: that too. Part of this podcast will be y'all telling

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Speaker 1: me if I'm a crazy person judging her unfairly, or

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Speaker 1: if you guys think she's awful too. But regardless of

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Speaker 1: what we conclude, I've named this episode Joan Quiggly History's

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Speaker 1: greatest monster. So let's dive into it. Joan Cecil Quigley

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Speaker 1: was born in Kansas City, Missouri, on April tenth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty seven, at four to seventeen PM. That time is

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Speaker 1: critical because if you don't know the exact minute of

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Speaker 1: someone's birth, you can't properly cast their horoscope. This is

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Speaker 1: something I learned by reading four hundred pages of Joan Quigley.

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Speaker 1: Explain astrology to me. You read the whole thing? Oh yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I have. Of course she a good writer. No, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's not. I'll give it in fairness, she's not like

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Speaker 1: bad like it's not. I'm not. I was never distracted

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Speaker 1: by the writing quality of the book. How did you

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Speaker 1: decide to read that? I realized that Ronald Reagan's astrologer

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Speaker 1: had written a book, and then I bought it. How

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Speaker 1: did you find out Ronald Reagan had an astrologer? I

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Speaker 1: was drunk and browsing the internet at some point, and

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Speaker 1: like I came across some little listical article talking about

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Speaker 1: like wacky facts about US presidents. I think that's I

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Speaker 1: remember that. She was also an astrologer to several other

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Speaker 1: notable people. Was she an astrologer to the stars? Yes,

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Speaker 1: oh yes, yes, yeah, I know, I know a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know enough. Keep telling us. Yeah, well yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Jones' father, John was a former lawyer who moved

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Speaker 1: to San Francisco and bought a fancy hotel. His wife

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Speaker 1: is named Zelda, which is like, if you know the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, that's like the name to have if you're

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Speaker 1: a rich lady. It's like, that's like Jackson is today,

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Speaker 1: Jackson Jackson. Oh god, yeah, just jack Like they're all

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Speaker 1: club promoters. Okay. Yeah. So he and his wife Zelda

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Speaker 1: raised their daughters as high society ladies. They had a

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Speaker 1: penthouse on Knob Hill in San Francisco and went to

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Speaker 1: a private school. The Quigly Girls, as they were known,

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Speaker 1: had chauffeurs to take them to school. Parties generally enrolls royces.

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Speaker 1: In her obituary, The Los Angeles Times said that she

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Speaker 1: had quote come from the Creme de la creme of

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, gentility and her fancy, rich lady bonafides would

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Speaker 1: prove critical in earning her Nancy Reagan's trust. Joan went

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Speaker 1: to Vassar. She got a degree in art history. Her

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Speaker 1: mom was apparently an astrology nerd, and that's where Joan

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Speaker 1: caught the bug. She spent a year as a secret

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Speaker 1: apprentice to a soothsayer named Jerome Pearson. Her dad hated astrology,

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Speaker 1: and so she had to hide her chart making and

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Speaker 1: star watching while publicly doing normal aristocratic stuff like whatever

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Speaker 1: the Junior League is. I don't know what the junior

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Speaker 1: League is. Probably you dance with people, dance with other

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Speaker 1: rich people, like Catilians, but with a sportier sounding name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's my guess. Katillion is the only word that came

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Speaker 1: into my mind when I read Junior league. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what one is. It's a club for rich people.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it's only women. Like the picture in

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Speaker 1: my head is that scene from Gone with the Wind

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Speaker 1: where the lady in the big dress descends the staircase. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: something rich people do so they can hang out and

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Speaker 1: wear fancy clothes. Do you have to wear a bustle? Ye?

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Speaker 1: It's probably kind of racist. Oh, definitely, there's no Yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So once Joan is out of college in junior league

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Speaker 1: or whatever and moves out of her dad's house, she

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Speaker 1: starts writing an astrology column for seventeen magazine, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize went back that far. And what year is this?

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Speaker 1: Like the forties? Yeah, this is in like the forties seventeen,

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Speaker 1: which back in the forties. Yeah, yeah, because they had

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Speaker 1: just invented teenagers, right, yeah, they're like, now they need

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Speaker 1: a magazine. Oh, people who live in past twelve. I

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Speaker 1: guess we gotta figure the thing out. Her gig at

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Speaker 1: seventeen didn't last long, though, because she didn't like writing

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Speaker 1: horoscopes for tabloids. She runted to read the stars of

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Speaker 1: the rich and famous and was kind of disgusted by

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Speaker 1: the idea that poor people might use astrology. I should

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Speaker 1: ask you this point, are either of y'all into astrology?

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Speaker 1: I mean, tangentially. We've done a couple of night calls

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Speaker 1: where we talked about astrology a bunch and sort of

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Speaker 1: why it's interesting whether you believe in it or not.

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Speaker 1: I personally do not believe in it, but I've also

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Speaker 1: said it's probably some of a a virgo and the boring

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Speaker 1: is and I love virgos, and I specifically aimed for

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Speaker 1: a virgo with one of my kids. Got locked down

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Speaker 1: that ago very please, how do you aim for that?

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Speaker 1: You know? Noulate, N Well, it's really more like ten.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what do you think about astrology? I'm not

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Speaker 1: into astrology, but I like a good friend of mine

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Speaker 1: for back home in Texas who's like an accountant, is

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Speaker 1: really into astrology. It's just one of those grounded people

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Speaker 1: I know. So I don't think an issue. Well, what's

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Speaker 1: your sign's entertaining? If I may, I don't. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: What's your birthday? March? March? What? Twenty second? I think

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Speaker 1: you're a Pisces. Maybe I'm wrong. I have no true

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Speaker 1: astrology nerd would know. I know, but I you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about this, liked it. It's like, even though

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Speaker 1: I don't believe in or like astrology, especially if you

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Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles, you meet a lot of people

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Speaker 1: but maybe are into astrology. There's also a thing I

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Speaker 1: don't like where people are sort of like misogynistic about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: women are so dumb they believe in astrology. Plenty of

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Speaker 1: men believe in astrology. There's plenty of dumb men who

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Speaker 1: believe in astrology. There's plenty of dumb men who believe

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Speaker 1: in it, like trickle down economics. I think it's like

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Speaker 1: it's like sports or something. It's just like a thing

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Speaker 1: to keep life more entertain than it is. I'll tell you,

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Speaker 1: I believe in it way more than I believe in chakras.

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Speaker 1: When people get and I'm just like, Wow, they took

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Speaker 1: you for a fool, because astrology you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: entertain yourself with for free, so it can't actually be that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so we've decided as soon as you're spending

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Speaker 1: money on it, then it's a day. Yeah. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: that that's kind of how I feel about it. Like

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Speaker 1: I don't have any issue and I I like, I

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Speaker 1: tried to as I edited this podcast make sure that

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Speaker 1: I was not just attacking people astrology, because like, it's

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Speaker 1: whatever you get do to get through the day. I've

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Speaker 1: I've been superstitious about stuff when I've been in whatever,

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Speaker 1: when you need it. Sometimes, yes, life, anything you're into.

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Speaker 1: If you're doing it for Ronald Reagan, you're on the

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Speaker 1: wrong side of amen, Well that may be one. And

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Speaker 1: I'm also I'm trying to be fair to the Reagan's

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Speaker 1: in this, although I'm not a Ronald Reagan fans. You

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Speaker 1: do a history podcast about history, A's greatest monster we're

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Speaker 1: going to cover. We're going to hit on the Reagans

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Speaker 1: on this, but I think they're I think they're victims

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Speaker 1: of Joan Quickly in this, and we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a second. Like we like Joan Quickly, Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: who scams the scammers? Ye? This is a complicated one.

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Speaker 1: If it was just one other person sitting here, that

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Speaker 1: wouldn't but two other people, I feel like we can

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Speaker 1: make the historical judgment. I think I didn't finish school,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know how historians make judgments, but I

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Speaker 1: think this is it. I'm absolutely positive that this is

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Speaker 1: exactly how it should be done. Fantastic. Okay. So Joan

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Speaker 1: didn't like doing horoscopes for poor people, and didn't like

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Speaker 1: doing horoscopes for anyone who could just afford to buy

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Speaker 1: a magazine. Her obituary in The Economist notes that quote

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Speaker 1: she did not make forecasts or cast up horoscopes for

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Speaker 1: ordinary people, only for corporate figures, celebrities, and those who

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Speaker 1: guided the destinies of nations. I wish the economist was

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Speaker 1: exaggerating about that. The sad truth is that Joan Quigley

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Speaker 1: was probably the most influential astrologer of the twentieth century. Now,

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Speaker 1: Donald Reagan was Ronald Reagan's Treasury Secretary starting in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one and the White House Chief of Staff from

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five to eighty seven. And it's real funny

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Speaker 1: that Donald Reagan worked so closely with Ronald Reagan. Were

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Speaker 1: they related? So their last names are spelled differently? What

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Speaker 1: Donald Reagan is ourg Donald Reagan? Yeah, Donald Reagan. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna call him Donald. Yeah, I should call him Donald Reagan.

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Speaker 1: Still yeah, still confusing. So yeah, Donald Reagan was the

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Speaker 1: chief of staff, which is like, that's a big job.

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Speaker 1: That was Steve Bannon's job until like a year ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, Okay, So Donald Reagan was the White House

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Speaker 1: Chief of Staff from eighty five to eighty seven. He

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Speaker 1: was a big trickle down economics guy. He was very

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Speaker 1: importantly the administration. But he was forced to resign in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven because he couldn't protect the President from

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Speaker 1: the fallout of the Iran Contra affair. So in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight, he published a memoir called for the Record,

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Speaker 1: where he revealed to the world the White House's quote

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Speaker 1: most closely guarded secret. No, not Ronald Reagan's growing senility.

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Speaker 1: Not the fact that we've been selling missiles too. Iran

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Speaker 1: joan quickly, this is a quote from Donald Reagan. Virtually

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Speaker 1: every major move and decision that Reagan's made during my

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Speaker 1: time as White House Chief of staff was cleared in

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Speaker 1: advance with a woman in San Francisco who drew up

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Speaker 1: horoscopes to make certain that the planets were in favorable

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Speaker 1: alignment for the enterprise, can tinued, would that there had

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Speaker 1: been some other explanation, But there wasn't astrology, was it.

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Speaker 1: It was a daily, sometimes hourly factor in every decision

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Speaker 1: affecting the President's schedule. What what I didn't know anything.

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Speaker 1: I love this. I didn't know the depth of this.

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Speaker 1: Was she like living at the White House? Or was

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Speaker 1: she just was he calling from San Francisco? It was

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Speaker 1: Nancy who would call, Yeah, and we'll well, we'll get

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Speaker 1: into a little bit about how it worked. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: like she notes a number of times in her memoirir

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Speaker 1: and Donald Reagan backs it up. She had absolute control

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Speaker 1: of her when Air Force one took off and landed,

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Speaker 1: she could make it circle in the sky if she

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Speaker 1: wanted it to land at a different time, because the

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Speaker 1: stars said that was better. Well, hey, she went to Vassar,

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Speaker 1: she had her art history degree. She obviously knew a

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Speaker 1: thing or two. Yeah, yeah, no, the am Vassa is

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Speaker 1: famous for its air force. That's what I meant undergraduate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, strategy sounds like a nightmare. But

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Speaker 1: also I'm like, wow, I didn't know the Reagans had

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Speaker 1: like a restputant. Yeah, it's very rare, like a lady Rasputant.

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Speaker 1: So I'm also maybe I like respect her as a

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Speaker 1: history scammer. If Joe had moved to d C and

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Speaker 1: been fucking all I guess the husbands in DC of

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Speaker 1: all of the powerful government people like Resputant did to

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Speaker 1: the ladies in the noble court in Russia, this would

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Speaker 1: be a very different podcast. In fact, she had to

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Speaker 1: do so much less work working remotely. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can't be understated how great they draw up the stars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and she was not shot and drowned in

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Speaker 1: the Volga, which is spoiler, sorry, but you probably should

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Speaker 1: have been. Yeah, it wouldn't have been the worst thing

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Speaker 1: so far. I'm not really hating this lady. But let's

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Speaker 1: keep going. Let's let's get into a little bit. So

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Speaker 1: Donald notes that nobody other than some people very close

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Speaker 1: to the president knew about this relationship, including his Secret

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Speaker 1: Service detail. He even sort of mentions that he thinks

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Speaker 1: they'd be kind of pissed to realize that, after all

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Speaker 1: their years of carefully guarding the president, like Nancy, had

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Speaker 1: been talking about his moves ahead of time with this

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Speaker 1: astrologer over an unsecured phone line. He said, quote, surely

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Speaker 1: they would think that posed a security risk, which it did,

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Speaker 1: and that'll be a thing later. It actually kind of

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Speaker 1: led to a grand Soviet US astrology duel. But that's

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Speaker 1: a moment for I'm yeah, that's for later in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting out of myself. Yeah, So, when mister Reagan

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Speaker 1: dropped the truth about President Reagan's astrologer, it hit Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill like a bomb. The story sort of faded to

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Speaker 1: just a general political fable. Now, like I think most

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Speaker 1: people vaguely hear that the Reagans were into astrology, but

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Speaker 1: they don't know much about it. But at the time

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Speaker 1: it was as huge as story as it would be now,

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Speaker 1: although now it would only be a story for a

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Speaker 1: day and a half that best, maybe not even that.

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Speaker 1: So Nancy Reagan insisted that it hadn't been a big deal.

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Speaker 1: She claimed that her use of Joan had just been

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Speaker 1: a silly affectation, nothing serious. This made Joan very angry

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Speaker 1: in her mind. Not only had she not hurt the Reagans,

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Speaker 1: her astrology had been the secret power behind the throne.

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Speaker 1: So Joan decided to write a memoir of her own,

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Speaker 1: and on March first, nineteen ninety, she published what does

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Speaker 1: Joan Say? My seven years is White House Astrologer to

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Speaker 1: Nancy and Ronald Reagan. This is the book that I

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Speaker 1: read for this podcast, What does Jones Say? What does

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Speaker 1: Jones John? About three hundred something pages, had a lot

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Speaker 1: to say. I don't think it sold well. I wound

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Speaker 1: up having to order a very old hardcover copy of

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Speaker 1: it that had never been opened. There's no kindle edition

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Speaker 1: of it, so I had to underline the words the

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Speaker 1: old fashioned way. It was terrible taking notes on books

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Speaker 1: before Kendall's strenuous Yeah. Anyway, Joan made me work because

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Speaker 1: her book wasn't a success, and I may hate her

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Speaker 1: for that. She opens her memoir by saying, this is

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Speaker 1: a book I never thought I would write, which I

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Speaker 1: think is a lie because she published it really quickly

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Speaker 1: after Nancy Reagan's memoir. Joan claims that when Donald Reagan

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Speaker 1: spilled the beans on her existence quote, I rejected all

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Speaker 1: suggestions that I document my Reagan years. I said as

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Speaker 1: little as possible to the media. I tried above alt

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Speaker 1: to keep from damaging the president I had admired and

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Speaker 1: served for seven years with total dedication. But then she

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Speaker 1: claims that Nancy Reagan's memoire, My Turn, forced her to reconsider.

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Speaker 1: She said it reads like fiction, and much of it

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Speaker 1: as evasive. That is the beginning of what would become

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Speaker 1: several hundred pages of throwing shade at Nancy Reagan. To

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Speaker 1: my eyes, Jones memoir serves two purposes. Number one to

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Speaker 1: allow her to take credit for every achievement of the

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Speaker 1: Reagan era, and number two, to shit on Nancy Reagan. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know at this point you might be wondering how

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Speaker 1: credible is this lady, and obviously she's an unreliable narrator,

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Speaker 1: but multiple people do back up the fact that she

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Speaker 1: not only advised the president, she was actually the arbiter

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Speaker 1: of his schedule. Donald Reagan, who was again chief of

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Speaker 1: staff and would know, admitted in his memoirs that Joan

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Speaker 1: had total control over win Air Force one took offen landed.

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Speaker 1: He wrote that he, or in this case, she, who

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Speaker 1: controls the president's schedule, controls the workings of the presidency,

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Speaker 1: which seems accurate. In his book The Acting President, CBS

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Speaker 1: correspondent Bob Scheffer related a story that also backs up

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Speaker 1: Jones's importance. This is Bob Sheefer. The only real hitch

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Speaker 1: the campaign team had to deal with during those weeks

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Speaker 1: of planning in the fall of nineteen eighty three was

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Speaker 1: a conflict over when the president should formally declare his

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Speaker 1: Candidacylee Water in particular, wanted it done right away, but

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Speaker 1: he was repeatedly told that Miss Reagan did not feel

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Speaker 1: the time for that announcement was propreties. I think it's propitious, propitious,

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Speaker 1: thank you. That baffled him, and when he finally continued

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Speaker 1: to press for an explanation, Michael Deaver took him aside

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Speaker 1: and disclosed that Nancy's reluctance was based on the astrologer's warning.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot a number of people. You can

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Speaker 1: find stories of saying that, like, yeah, we had to

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Speaker 1: change the time at the last minute, or we had

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Speaker 1: to do something at like midnight or three in the

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Speaker 1: morning or whatever, and when they would trace it back

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Speaker 1: because Nancy Reagan said, no, he can't go out at

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Speaker 1: that hour, like he has to go out now, or

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Speaker 1: he has to do this now. Was this because Joan

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Speaker 1: was insinuating that he would be assassinated if he Okay,

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Speaker 1: bingo boiler, Sorry no, no, no, this is this is

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Speaker 1: like immediately the next paragraph. So no, you landed on it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to get into how this weird little

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Speaker 1: relationship started. It kicked off in the nineteen seventies because

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Speaker 1: Joan was on the MURV Griffin show. Murf Griffin was

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Speaker 1: I be fair to call him like a late light host, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like Jimmy Fallon of his era, but probably more talented. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry if there's Jimmy Fallon fans out there,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's history's greatest monster yeah at this point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, MERV Griffin, you know, was one of those

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Speaker 1: really connected people. So he liked Joan quickly, and she

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Speaker 1: did his astrology a bunch, and he also knew an

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Speaker 1: actress named Nancy Reagan, and he knew wh her back

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Speaker 1: when she was an actress and her husband was an actor,

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Speaker 1: and then he continued to know them after her husband

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Speaker 1: became the governor of California. Mervy knew that Nancy believed

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Speaker 1: in astrology. Joan claims he asked if he could give

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Speaker 1: her number to Nancy, and she said yes. This is

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Speaker 1: from Joan. The first time Nancy consulted me mostly about

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Speaker 1: personal problems. She had given me her exact birth time,

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Speaker 1: so doing her horoscope was easy. I remember I described

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Speaker 1: to her in detail the matter that she intended asking

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Speaker 1: me about before she asked it. From the beginning, my

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Speaker 1: accuracy impressed her. So Joan did her work on Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and Nancy was astonished at you know, how well it

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Speaker 1: worked or whatever, And so they had a little relationship

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Speaker 1: going on for a while. The Reagan's had always superstitious.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty seven, when Ronnie was inaugurated as governor,

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Speaker 1: his inauguration was scheduled for twelve ten am in the

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Speaker 1: morning at the advice of a different astrologer. So like

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Speaker 1: this has been a thing in their life for a while.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty Reagan ran for president. One. In

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Speaker 1: her memoire, Nancy claims that Joan volunteered her services, which

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Speaker 1: just amounted to a few phone calls and advice on

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Speaker 1: wind to time certain events. Joan, however, claims that she

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Speaker 1: advised the Reagans extensively, particularly during then candidate Reagan's first

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Speaker 1: presidential debate with a guy named John Anderson. Anderson has

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Speaker 1: been forgotten and buried in history, as we all will

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Speaker 1: be someday, but he was Ronald Reagan's opponent in his

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Speaker 1: first debate, and this was important because Ronald Reagan was

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Speaker 1: a very old presidential candidate. No one had ever been

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Speaker 1: sixty nine and running for president before, so it was

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Speaker 1: important that he looked good and not seem old. Joan

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Speaker 1: took great care in timing their debate. She also claims

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Speaker 1: that she warned Nancy that the stars had told her

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Speaker 1: that someone was going to tamper with Ronald Reagan's microphone,

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Speaker 1: and apparently, according to Joan, Nancy found that the microphone

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Speaker 1: had been tampered with and turned down, and Jones says

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Speaker 1: that if Ronald had used the microphone without fixing it,

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Speaker 1: he would have sounded weak and therefore old what it

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Speaker 1: makes sense? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of age

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Speaker 1: shaming to say that that weakness and age are correlated.

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Speaker 1: But I guess she's not necessarily wrong. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: also saw how that can be wielded very powerfully in

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Speaker 1: a presidential campaign. Weakness and age and you know, fallibility. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like that's that. This is one of the ones where

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Speaker 1: I want to like attack her, but she may not

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Speaker 1: be wrong about it, right, I kind of think she's

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Speaker 1: But also, like, what if the mic wasn't turned down

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Speaker 1: and they just turned his mic up? You know, so

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Speaker 1: he was allowed to me to be a smart move.

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Speaker 1: That's still a smart move. Yeah, And this is Nancy

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Speaker 1: doesn't say anything about this, so I don't. It's we're

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Speaker 1: kind of have to take Jones's word that this microphone

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Speaker 1: thing happened. She does, however, take credit for Ronald winning

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Speaker 1: his debate against Carter, or rather, she says, I cannot

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Speaker 1: claim any credit for his winning the Carter debate. However,

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Speaker 1: I was definitely responsible for Carter's losing that crucial contest,

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Speaker 1: because she claimed she picked an astrological time that made

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Speaker 1: it impossible for Carter to win. Is sort of the

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Speaker 1: inauguration of her taking credit for everything that happens during

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Speaker 1: this time. So Ronald Reagan was elected, and Joan stopped

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Speaker 1: hearing from Nancy Reagan because at this point, you know,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan's the president, and all the president's advisors are saying,

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Speaker 1: don't associate with astrologers. That's going to end badly for

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Speaker 1: us politically. If you know we're people, find out that

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Speaker 1: you're consulting an astrologer on things, it's just not going

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Speaker 1: to be good. But then on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 1: some guy shot President Reagan in a vital area his body.

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Speaker 1: President Reagan nearly died. I don't really like Nancy Reagan,

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Speaker 1: particularly her involvement in the War on drugs, but one

401
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Speaker 1: thing you can say for her and her husband is

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Speaker 1: that they were very much in love. By the reports

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Speaker 1: of everybody who knew the two of them, the assassination

404
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Speaker 1: attempt sort of broke Nancy Reagan. Most people would turn

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Speaker 1: to something comforting, either drugs or God or drugs made

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Speaker 1: out of God. After that kind of shock, Nancy turned

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Speaker 1: to astrology. So this is where we get into the

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Speaker 1: thing that I think makes Joan kind of a monster.

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Speaker 1: And so we're going to delve into that. But first,

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Speaker 1: do you guys like products and services? Who does it them? Oh? Man?

411
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Speaker 1: In currency? Oh yeah, Well, we're gonna sell some things

412
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Speaker 1: to you for you to spend your currency on ad

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Speaker 1: break and we're back. So it has been a long

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Speaker 1: opening so far. Nothing bastardy inherently about what Joan Quigley's done.

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Speaker 1: She's just been doing astrology for people who like having

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Speaker 1: astrology done. You know whatever, It's fine, We're getting to

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Speaker 1: wear I think she does something awful. So Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 1: is shot on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one. Nancy Reagan

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Speaker 1: freaks out in exactly the same way anyone who's spouse

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Speaker 1: gets almost assassinated would freak out. Now, both Nancy Reagan,

421
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: because I read Nancy's memoo, or at least the chunk

422
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: that deals with this. Both Nancy Reagan and Joan agree

423
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 1: that the aftermath of President Reagan getting shot is when

424
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: their working relationship in the White House started. Okay, they

425
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: both have a different recollection of how that happened. So

426
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to read excerpts from both jones memoir and

427
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: Nancy's memoir, and y'all can tell me which seems more

428
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: credible to you. All right, So I'm going to start

429
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: with Joan. It's gonna be quick. Okay, this is what

430
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: she's said that day. I remember it verbatim. First she asked,

431
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: could you have told about the assassination attempt? Yes, of

432
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: course I could had I been looking. However, I haven't

433
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: been following your charts or tracking the mundane material for Washington.

434
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Had I been looking, I would have warned you.

435
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: She then said, and she's this is Nancy talking to her.

436
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm getting terrible press. It's so unfair. I'm really a

437
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,719
Speaker 1: very nice person. Can you tell me what to do?

438
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: I'm willing to pay you. So. In Jones's version of events,

439
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan asks, because you have predicted my husband's assassination attempt,

440
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: and then immediately asks after that, can you make me popular?

441
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: All right? So that's Joan's recollection. Here's Nancy Reagan in

442
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: her memoire, my turn, and now it is her turn.

443
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: That joke wasn't even a joke. I said it, and

444
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 1: you can't take it back. Here's Nancy Reagan. I remember,

445
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: as if it were yesterday, my reaction to what MERV

446
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: told me. On the phone MERV Griffin he had talked

447
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: to Joan, who had said that she could have warned

448
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 1: me about March thirtieth. According to Mirv, Joan had said

449
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: the president should have stayed home. I could see from

450
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: my charts that this was going to be a dangerous

451
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: day for him. Oh my god, I remember telling MERV

452
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: I could have stopped it. I hung up the phone,

453
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: picked it up again and called Joan. MERV tells me

454
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: you knew about March thirtieth. I said yes, She replied,

455
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: I could see it was a very bad day for

456
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: the president. I'm so scared. I told her. I'm scared

457
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,959
Speaker 1: every time he leaves the house, and I don't think

458
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 1: I can breathe until he gets home. I cringe every

459
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 1: time we step out of a car or leave a building.

460
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that one of these days somebody is going

461
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: to shoot at him again. So what do you guys,

462
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: Who do you guys think is credible here? Which story

463
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: do you believe? I mean, so, Joan is basically like,

464
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't looking, so I don't know. So I didn't

465
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: know ahead of time, right, And then Nancy kind of

466
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: comes back at her, being like, well, I'd like you

467
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: to sign on for my own purposes to give me

468
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: better publicity, you know, to kind of milk the stars,

469
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: if you will, forge and try to get stop my

470
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: husband from getting shadow again. Meanwhile, Yeah, and then Nancy

471
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: is like she just wants to protect her husband. She'll

472
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: do anything. Joan saw it coming reached out via merv exactly.

473
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: I find Nancy's more credible. And if it depends on

474
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: how much money Joan was making, I think if Joan

475
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: needed the income from Nancy Reagan, then I kind of

476
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: believe in her reaching out. But if she was really

477
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: doing fine, it sounds like maybe she had a trust fund.

478
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: I don't really know why she would, especially because even

479
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: though I do like astrology, I wouldn't put any stock

480
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: in it. It seems like a big risk for her

481
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: to take, you know, I think, and I get the

482
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: feeling from the memoir and from the stuffing the end

483
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: to I think Joan wanted to feel close to power. Yeah.

484
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is is. Joan wanted to

485
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: be influential. She wanted to use her powers to direct

486
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: the progress of history. And what I think is if

487
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan's version of things is true and MERV Griffin

488
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: didn't counter her at least when she recalled this. Then

489
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: this lady reached out to MERV because he knew that

490
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: MERV was going to talk to Nancy. Joan reached out

491
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: to MERV and said, oh, I predicted what happened to

492
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: President Reagan. I saw it coming in which case? So

493
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: in which case, one of two things is true. Either

494
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: astrology does work, and this lady legitimately saw that President

495
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: Reagan was in mortal danger, had the first lady's phone

496
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: number and didn't reach out and call her, or astrology

497
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way. And Joan just lied to MERV

498
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: Griffin because she knew Nancy would hear from him. Wasn't

499
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: she just saying I could have predicted it if you

500
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: had had me on the job already. That's what her memoir.

501
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: That's what Joan says in her memoir. Nancy's like saying

502
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: that Joan called MERV Griffin and was like, I could

503
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: have stopped it. Yeah, according to what MERV said to

504
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan, Joan told MERV the president should have stayed home.

505
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: I could see from my charts that this was going

506
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: to be a dangerus day for him. I'm going to

507
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: go ahead and believe Joan. Yeah, me too, because really, yes,

508
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: because I think that it's way more credible that she

509
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: would say I wasn't looking. If I had been, then

510
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: I could have predicted it, because why would you know? Yeah,

511
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I think that that's way more likely because if she

512
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: had known, she would have also tried to reach out

513
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: because she because it would have achieved the same purpose.

514
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: But Okay, the reason I believe Nancy's account is because

515
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: they both admit that Nancy stops calling Joan after Ronald

516
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: wins the presidency. But after the assassination attempt, wouldn't you

517
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: think that Nancy would kind of start reaching out. But

518
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: I think Nancy would start reaching out if one of

519
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: her friends says this astrologer tells me she predicted I

520
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: think Nancy was probably just looking for clues. She was

521
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: admittedly in freak out mode. She was admittedly in freak

522
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: out mode. But it also she she's presented with a solution,

523
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: which is that this lady predicted the assassination, and I

524
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: could have stopped it if I'd kept talking to her.

525
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: But don't you think that it also makes Nancy seem

526
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: like a more reasonable person if she claims that, well,

527
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Ben Merv, who everyone loves, called me and said, you know,

528
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: like astrology's not bullshit as opposed to having to admit

529
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: I was so freaked out that I reached out to

530
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: my old astrologer that I only had to drop because

531
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: it was like kind of tacky. Well, she doesn't say

532
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: that she dropped Joan because it was kind of tacky.

533
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: She's actually totally positive about Joan, like Nancy Reagan's never

534
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: anything but nice, like the bodies are buried. Yeah, I

535
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: mean I don't know, like Joe never. Joe never talks

536
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: about the bodies being buried. Joe she got paid off

537
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: to just take this money for this memory invited to

538
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: pro Joan people. Oh yeah, this is what I want,

539
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: because I can't be mad at somebody for like scamming

540
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan, because Nancy Reagan sucks so bad that like

541
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: she but but tell us more. If there was only

542
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: money at stake, I'm just I wouldn't care if it

543
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: turns out that Joan was like Nancy Reagan, Like the

544
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: stars say, you should like pretend the AIDS crisis isn't happening,

545
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: Like then I'll turn on Joan again. Not quite that,

546
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: but it does tie the war on drive. I think

547
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: some of that is just Nancy Reagan. Yeah, that's yeah,

548
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: some of that's Nancy Reagan. I feel like I think

549
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: she called MERV so that she could get Nancy because

550
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: she knew that if Nancy heard from her, like she

551
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: would like be like, oh, I could have stopped this,

552
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: Like like that rings truer to me. The Nancy Reagan

553
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: calling Joan and being like could you have predicted it?

554
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: And can you make everyone love me? I still believe Joan.

555
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know people who are very obsessed

556
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: with their astrologers, and I think some that's true that

557
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: they'll get sort of like not great readings and then

558
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: something scary happens and they reach out almost like a therapist.

559
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: That is plausible too. I just have trouble believing number one,

560
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: that the conversation immediately swung from can you stop my

561
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: husband from dying? To can you make America love me? No,

562
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: I don't think I think they're the same thing, because

563
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: she's like, if my husband dies, I'm not first lady anymore,

564
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: so like I both need my husband to stay alive

565
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: and then to be the most you know, because she's

566
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: an actress. She just wants to be playing the part

567
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: of the first lady that everyone loves. Yeah, I guess

568
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: part of it comes down to whether or not you believe.

569
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: And she's a shitty actress, which is why Well and

570
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: Ronald wasn't a great actor. But they are both not

571
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: good actors, which is why they're not believable. I mean,

572
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: in fairness, they were like two good actors back then. Yeah,

573
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: but they were the not good actors who snitched on

574
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: people at the Blacklist trials. So we knew that we

575
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: been knew there about it. Yeah, I don't know, So okay,

576
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: so we're you guys are coming down on Joan was

577
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: just responding to a legitimate job offer. And I'm thinking

578
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: Joan was trying to like sneak her way back into

579
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: the Reagan's life by taking advantage of an assassination attempt.

580
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: So that's where we are right now, all right, So

581
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: we'll see where everyone's opinions line up at the end

582
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: of this story. So I should probably note right now

583
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: for the sake of completion, Joan does claim at another

584
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: point in her memoir to have foreseen something terrible and

585
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: not told Nancy Reagan about it. She claims that she

586
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: predicted Nancy Reagan's cancer and said nothing. Nancy's horoscope had

587
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: indicated to me months in advance that she would develop

588
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: breaths cancer. I didn't want to alarm her by coming

589
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: right out and telling her I knew well too well

590
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: with a warrior she was, so I did what I

591
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: always do in such cases. I advised her to have

592
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: monthly checkups and frequent mammograms, certain that the doctors would

593
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: discover it the minute it developed, which strikes me as

594
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of a dick move, But I don't know,

595
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: maybe that's astrologer's standard practice. I mean, the odds of

596
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: it of getting breast cancer if you're a woman are

597
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: so high that it's a pretty safe bet to say

598
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: at some point you'll get cancer. But I mean, if

599
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: she told Nancy Reagan, I see that you're going to

600
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: get cancer, what could Nancy Reagan have done other than

601
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: exactly what she advised her to do. I mean, what

602
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: can you do if you know you're about to get

603
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: cancer other than see a doctor. Yeah, And I think

604
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: this again may tie back to the fact that I

605
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: don't think she foresaw any of this, and she's just

606
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: claiming later after the fact. To have foreseen someone's cancer

607
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: to make her sound good doesn't make her sound good though, No,

608
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: it makes her sound terrible. There's no way to say,

609
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to get cancer, didn't tell you.

610
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: But again, I'm not like surprised that the Reagans would

611
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: take all their advice from like an amoral scammer, because

612
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: that's what they are. Yes, and we'll we'll, I mean, yeah,

613
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: we're we're in that all moral California scammers. I also

614
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: feel like they were coming from like California, where it's

615
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty, like who doesn't have a personal skeletrap? Well, yeah,

616
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: which is part of the thing. Like they're like one,

617
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: she's always got these she's got all these pictures in

618
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: the book where it'll be like someone some senator or whatnot,

619
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: and she'll be like, Senators such and such didn't have

620
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: an issue with my astrology because he had an astrology. Okay,

621
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: if she had had like a like a priest on

622
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: call or whatever. Yeah, it seems like it's kind of

623
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, I mean, maybe more acceptable to

624
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: Middle America if she's got a priest than if she's

625
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: don't They love horoscopes, Yeah, who doesn't. Evangelicals might not. Yeah,

626
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: And I would say the difference between a priest and

627
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: a horoscope is that a priest And I'm not into

628
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: religion either, but a priest doesn't claim to be predicting

629
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: the future for you. A priest can just be like

630
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: like the priests the most presidents talk to. They're not

631
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: like being like, hey, what time should I take my

632
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: plane off? Like should I do this meeting? They're like,

633
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: what does God say about bombing people in the Sudan

634
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: or whatever? And apparently God's fine with it. But yeah, anyway,

635
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: we've we've gotten past the assassination attempt and Joan's prediction

636
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: of Nancy Reagan's cancer. So yeah, after the assassination attempt, Joan,

637
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, gets the offer to become the astrologer for

638
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: the Reagan White House and she decides to take it on.

639
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: She says that, you know, she knew that if she

640
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: took the Reagans on quote, I would be giving up

641
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: all my time and effort, like those who take part

642
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: in any administration, sacrificing the rewards they command in the

643
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: private sector in order to serve their country. Was she

644
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: exclusive to the Reagans. No, oh no, she's this is nonsense.

645
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: This is just one of their client and she was

646
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: paid extraordinarily wealthy. You know how much do you know? Yeah,

647
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars a month in nineteen eight, which is

648
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: today nine thousand dollars a month. What who else were

649
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: her clients? That's what I want to know. She doesn't

650
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: go into much detail. MERV. Griffin was definitely one of them,

651
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: but she was like a lot of famous San Francisco

652
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: socialites and stuff, wealthy people. And this, this is a

653
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: big trend in the book, is Joan bragging about how

654
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: selfless she is for working for the Reagans. She claimed

655
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: that Nancy begged her to take them on for free

656
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: because the Reagans didn't have much money, but they eventually

657
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: settled on a sum, which, again Joan claims were basically

658
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: poverty wages, but which was about nine grand a month

659
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: in modern money, which is in my mind, a lot

660
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: of money. She remarks regularly, like pretty much every chapter,

661
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: how heroic she is for taking just this pittance. Quote.

662
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: I charged Nancy a monthly fixed fee because she needed

663
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: much more of my time than she could afford. This

664
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: was very generous. On my part because I often worked

665
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: longer than full time for a while, when an emergency

666
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: would arise, I was working as long as nine hours uninterrupted.

667
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: Oh my good, Oh my god. Yeah, And this is

668
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: I guess another call out to the Dorito's people. If

669
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: they want to sponsor the podcast, I will work nine

670
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: hours uninterrupted on a Dorito's themed monster podcast. We're trying

671
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: to get the Dorito's people. Though Doritos comes through, Yeah,

672
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: I feel like they're the perfect chip for dictator based comedy.

673
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: We do. Moncho's might be in the running, but I

674
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: think Dorito's is more of like the you know from

675
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: De la crame as you might say, Yeah, yeah. Someone

676
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter came up with a great hashtag Nachos not Nazis,

677
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: which I think, yeah, yeah, we can, we can sell

678
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: some Dorito's. Anyway, back to the Reagans, so yeah, in

679
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: Nancy's version of events, which again, nobody's credible here, which

680
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: is why I'm grateful to have y'all's perspective on the matter,

681
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: because I just wound up hating Joan in this book.

682
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: But you're right, Nancy Reagan does not deserve to be

683
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: taken seriously or literally at her own word either. So

684
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: Nancy claims that Joan became a crutch and something of

685
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: a therapist, but nothing more. You know, she would call

686
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: her when she was anxious about something or a meeting

687
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: that Ronnie was going to have. And I can't not

688
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: call him Ronnie now because I read that a thousand times,

689
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: and I think that Nancy is lying about this. I

690
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: don't think she's lying about using Joan as a therapist.

691
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: That does not seem out out of the pale at

692
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: all for me. But I do think that Nancy's fibbing

693
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: about Joan not having a big role in the administration

694
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: because Donald Reagan's account backs up Joan's claim that she

695
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: was important and she was making major calls. It is

696
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: interesting to me that Nancy's only nice to Joan in

697
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: her memoir. She says Joan was and emotionally supportive and

698
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: expresses admiration for how she handled the press when the

699
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: story broke. It's interesting to me that Joan spends her

700
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: whole book attacking Nancy Reagan and making her look like

701
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: a monster with quotes like Nancy was almost totally innocent

702
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: of history. I was often surprised by how little she

703
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: knew about it. She was in no way an intellectual

704
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: or deeply reflective, which I don't disagree with, but is

705
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: not a nice way to refer to the person who's

706
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: the only reason that you're noteworthy. Well maybe she thinks

707
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: it's not the only reason she's noteworthy. Yeah, And also

708
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: is the difference between a politician and a psychic. Yeah,

709
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: it's a plain dealer. Yeah. Yeah. And Joan makes a

710
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: big point about how much Nancy Reagan hated Eli with Sell,

711
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: the Holocaust survivor and author, and what he won. Was

712
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: it a nobel I think? Yeah. She says that Nancy

713
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: Reagan hated elizzl because of he made a big fuss

714
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: when Ronald Reagan laid a wreath at a cemetery where

715
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: Nazis are buried, which is a reasonable thing to be

716
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: angry about if you're a Holocaust survivor. When Roselle became

717
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: vocal about it and sparked an out cry, Joan claims

718
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: that Nancy said, he acts like he's crazy. It's his fault.

719
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: He's a fanatic. And after this point Joan chimes in

720
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: to say that she doesn't think Nancy was a racist

721
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: in the most racist way possible. To be fair, Nancy

722
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: was not a religious bigot. She liked her wealthy Jewish

723
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: friends as well as her friends of other religions. Ooh

724
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: oh no, but is that a way to know it's

725
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: just terrible. It's terrible. And that's one where I feel

726
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: like Nancy's I'm sure Nancy's awful about this. Well, I mean,

727
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: that's the thing is I'm like, is she just trying

728
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: to like call attention to how awful Nancy is while

729
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: still rottin. I think she recognizes it. I think she

730
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: legitimately she probably doesn't know anyone that isn't an anti Semite,

731
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: so she's like on a scale of aism, this was

732
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: just you know, she just hated him, but you know,

733
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: her her wealthy Jewish friends. As long as you're rich. Yeah,

734
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: And I don't think Joan Quickly ever talked to anyone

735
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: who wasn't rich. And that's what I'm saying. So she's

736
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: never met a non racist person in her life, yeah,

737
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: because I mean it's telling that she doesn't consider the

738
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: Reagans to be rich, right, because like they had a

739
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: ranch in Santa Barbara, but they're not old money. Yeah, yea.

740
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: She that's the line for her because she's you know,

741
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: San Francisco old money, and I'm sure some East Coast

742
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: people would be like, well, that's California, right, right, Yeah,

743
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: the astors are really raking her over the coals, and

744
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: they're all making fun of the Reagan being president is

745
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: so good, the talk of the Junior League. Yeah, exactly.

746
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Speaking of the Junior League, I am pretty sure those

747
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: wealthy Jewish families aren't allowed at the Cotillions. Yeah. I

748
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: was gonna say, they're definitely not allowed in the Junior League. Yeah,

749
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: so yeah. Joan quickly claims her first big job was

750
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: to make Nancy Reagan likable. Nancy was being pilloried by

751
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: the press from the White House China. She planned to

752
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: buy to her expensive clothes. Her every movement was ridiculed

753
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: and criticized. Everywhere she said brought more public disapproval. So

754
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: Nancy was embarrassed at being a political liability and begged

755
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: for Jones help. I want everyone to love me. Where

756
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: Nancy's first words after I agreed to work with her

757
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: on a professional basis. I had to smile. The words

758
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: were so typical of a person with her kind of horoscope. Dude,

759
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: want now, I'm going to go home and look up

760
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: like what Nancy Reagan's sign was. Because based on that,

761
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: what am I thinking? Scorpio, I'm gonna find out why? Yeah, okay, research,

762
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: This is important, extra research that I didn't do because

763
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: I'm a hack and a frog. Yeah. So Joan claims

764
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: that she asked Nancy what charities Nancy wanted to work for.

765
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: Nancy kind of vaguely expressed an interest in drug rehabilitation

766
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: programs in the Foster Grandparents program, and Joan claims that

767
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: she's responsible for focusing Nancy Reagan. I told her that

768
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: these two charities would be what she would be known

769
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: for from now on, that she would talk about them

770
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: whenever she granted interviews and make them her personal crusade.

771
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: She must be a kind of ministering angel of mercy,

772
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: a sort of supernational mother figure. I told her to

773
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: set her staff to ferreting out appealing letters from children,

774
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: for instance, and make a point of answering them. Or

775
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: she could respond to some needy person, making sure this

776
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: same time that the story would be well publicized in

777
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: the media. Oh man, which is such a rich person?

778
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: Right about needy person? Like, what do you mean by needy?

779
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: That was the foster grandparents thing too. I wonder, I

780
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: mean that sounds like I guess it's a program to

781
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: help like connect underprivileged kids to like older men and

782
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: women who could be like So she really wanted to

783
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: just focus on issues that you can put on a mug. Yeah. Yeah,

784
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: it is only superficial things that she could be beloved for.

785
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: And Joan Quigley was like, yes, but you can't be

786
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: casual about it. If you're going to talk about drugs,

787
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: you've got to be a drug warrior. You've got to

788
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: be like lecturing the nation and claims basically to be

789
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: why Nancy Reagan became the face of the war on

790
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: drugs during the nineteen eighties, Well, apparently Nancy was a cancer,

791
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: just like oh, that's for sure. Ronald was the Aquarius,

792
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: the age of Aquarius. I mean the cancer's cancers are.

793
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: So they're water signs and they're very they do need

794
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: a lot of approval and they're very sensitive to being

795
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: reject So there are two water signs together. We water

796
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: signs together. Well, water signs are you know, they're fluid,

797
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: like there's you know, I'm just now I'm speaking personally

798
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: about the water signs. I know, but they're kind of mercurial,

799
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 1: like their temperament can change on a dime. They have moods.

800
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: They're moody people. Molly and I are Earth's signs around.

801
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that water signs are fluid

802
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: because Nancy Reagan, the water sign was a major factor

803
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: in the escalation of the War on drugs, which is

804
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: why so many people have to take pissed tests to

805
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: prove their sobriety. WHOA, and while you were all reeling

806
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: from that connection, we have to break for some more ads,

807
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: so please pull out your credit cards and spend some money.

808
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: We're back and we're talking about Joan Quiggly, History's greatest monster,

809
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: or maybe not. We'll be deciding that by the end

810
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: of this podcast. One way or the other. It fits

811
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: into the behind the Bastard's theme. Either Joan Quiggley's a

812
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: bastard or Ronald Reagan the bastard behind the bases, which

813
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: in a way makes her less of a bast I mean,

814
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: it's like, still, she's the power behind the throne, and

815
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: the throne is evil, so I mean the war on

816
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: drugs thing I don't love. Right now, Nancy Reagan is

817
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: remembered for like just say no, yeah, she's you know,

818
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: criminalizing all that stuff, and also for being a horrible homophobe, Yes,

819
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: super homophobic. And there's because Joan is very conservative that

820
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: comes across and this thing. So I like, she doesn't say.

821
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: There's not a word about gay people in this. There's

822
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: not a word about the AIDS crisis in this, So

823
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: I like, I can't say anything about that because Joan

824
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: didn't consider it worth talking about what they did. Yeah,

825
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: and if you're an astrologer and you saw the AIDS

826
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: crisis coming and did nothing, then I'm going to go

827
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: ahead and say that's what I'm saying. She's a monster too.

828
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: And again, if you're like taking all the credit for

829
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: making Nancy Reagan the person she is, then like you're

830
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: taking credit for a lot of garbage. Actually, I'll say

831
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: this in Jone's defense. I don't think she could have

832
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: predicted the AIDS crisis because that would have been doing

833
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: the horoscopes of a bunch of low income gay people,

834
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: and Joan quickly did not work for port. But astrology

835
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: too is seeing world trends. Yeah, you know, you can

836
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: focus on an individual chart, or you can focus on

837
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: the planetary alignments, and she she throughout her book she's

838
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: very inconsistent about what astrology can do, because sometimes she'll say,

839
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: when something goes badly for Reagan, she'll say, like, the

840
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: stars were just so fucked up with that thing that

841
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: there was no way that anything anyone could have done,

842
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: no intervention. But she'll also claim that, like, you can

843
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: make anything successful if you pick the right time. That's all,

844
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: which is it, Joan, That's all New age bullshit, is

845
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: like it's infallible except sometimes yeah, but in this case

846
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: nothing could be right. Yeah, So there's there's a lot

847
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: of inconsistencies within it. But again, I don't have any

848
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: issue with astrology until you start determining when the president

849
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: speaks to national tragedies. From which point made me start?

850
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: Do you guys think Alex Jones is the Joan Quigley

851
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration? Oh shit, you know that's not

852
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: a bad point. I saw him give a speech at

853
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: the Republican National Convention, like outside of the main convention floor.

854
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,959
Speaker 1: I have never seen a human being get that red

855
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: because he's screaming, and it's like it was terrifying. But

856
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: I feel like with Trump too, it's like he also

857
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: like he cribbed so much from Reagan, and he also

858
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: does so much based on what he sees on TV. Yeah,

859
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: he's also the president who just watches TV all day

860
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: and he's superstitious. Yeah, he's definitely supersticititious. And I'm sure

861
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: they've got Alex Jones on a hotline. And I gotta

862
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: say I'm glad that Trump does not have one thing

863
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan had is personal charisma. Like if you ever

864
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: talk to anyone, even people who didn't like him, who

865
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: had face to face conversations, he was very good. He

866
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: was he was fun. He was good at charming people. Right.

867
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: That's so weird because I never got that from him

868
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: ever when you guys hung out, when we hung out

869
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: stories when he got shot and he was like dying

870
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: and being wheeled in for Sara, Like he like looked

871
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: up at the surgeon and he said, oh, I sure,

872
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: hope you're a Republican. It's like like little folk like

873
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: that's not funny Trump would, is it. I think it's

874
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: endearing in the moment. I don't think. I don't know.

875
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he's not as bad as Trump. I

876
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: think in terms of interpersonal relationship, I think Trump Reagan

877
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: to me, like his charisma is I don't know. I

878
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: think it was more like the same thing with like

879
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: George W. Bush. It was like people were like, oh,

880
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: his folksy charisma, and I was like, what are you

881
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: talking about? Like, I don't see that. He just seems

882
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: like an idiot. But I think Reagan was more like George,

883
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, he he seemed like like an old man

884
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: who used being old to like fake convey stateliness to

885
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: be that's an aspect of it, like one thing old

886
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: white man. It's hard to say how much of Trump's

887
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: unpopularity is due to the media cycle, and like if

888
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: Trump had been president in nineteen eighty one, would he

889
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: be more popular because we just wouldn't have as much

890
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: focus on it. But Reagan was more popular than Trump, right,

891
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: which I don't know. I mean imagine Reagan though, that

892
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: was I mean, that's one of the things about you know,

893
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: making a very like vanilla joke of like I hope

894
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: you're a Republican as opposed to like firing off some

895
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: crazy ass tweets where you're just so offensive exactly. Well,

896
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: I guess it's more like if Reagan were president now,

897
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: he'd be tweeting some crazy racist shit all the time.

898
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: I know what I mean. It would be because he

899
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to use Twitter because he's too old.

900
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: I think he might be mutton dressed as lamb on Twitter.

901
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: But I'm saying he at least for sure was saying

902
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: crazy racist, homophobic shit behind closed doors, behind closed doors.

903
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: But I think that's the I mean, not that it

904
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: makes it any better, but that it makes it easier

905
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: to be a charming person. Ye fit in the you know,

906
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: that's like what people think is charming about you, which

907
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: is obviously Donald Trump's voters are like, I love when

908
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: he talks about a politics. He grabs them by the

909
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: pussy and that's what I like, you know, But I

910
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: do think there's different kinds of racism and they're all toxic.

911
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: But like with Trump, you've got this more like I'm

912
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: going to be like, but news organizations are still like

913
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: a racially charged incident, you know, like they still won't

914
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: say he's being a racist, even though he's like using

915
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: racist terms and saying racist things. People still are like,

916
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: but he's the president, so we're going to treat it

917
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: with like the import of like the president saying something

918
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: but it's all the same platforms the Republican Party has

919
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: always had, which are like homophobia, racism, and like hating

920
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 1: poor people. Well, and I think more to the point,

921
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: what you're getting at, which which is interesting in that

922
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: it ties in here is one of the things that

923
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: has been so dangerous in regarding the intersection of the

924
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: press and this presidency, is that we traditionally treat the

925
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: presidency as this August position. There's like something special about

926
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: the president, like that there's a certain level of respect

927
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: that you should have for the president. And that's obviously

928
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: nonsense as it occurs to Donald Trump, because he's just

929
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: an asshole on Twitter. Well, it's nonsense in general. It

930
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: was nonsense then, yeacause this guy had a fucking astrology

931
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: telling his plain to ser full in the sky. The

932
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: stars weren't and all like the great presidents of history

933
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: were like slave owners, so like they were not keeping

934
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: their racism secret, you know, or rampaging alcoholics or too

935
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: fat to get out of a bathtub, like they're just

936
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: what they're just doing, which is just disgusting, right, And

937
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: I think the thing about Reagan was it was like

938
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: we're casting a guy who looks like he should be

939
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: the president to play the president on television, but he

940
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: doesn't actually like know or care. Well, that's where the

941
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: astrologer becomes an important That's where the astrologer but comes

942
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: back in let's get back to let's get back to astrologer.

943
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: When we were last talking about the astrology stuff, we

944
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: were getting into the fact that, yeah, Joan quickly insisted

945
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: that Nancy Reagan make drug policy be like her big thing,

946
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: and of course Nancy becomes the face of the just

947
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: Say No campaigns. You know, during the Reagan administration, the

948
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: number of people behind bars for nonviolent drug offenses increased

949
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: from like fifty thousand to several hundred thousand, like four

950
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen ninety seven. So, yeah, Nancy Reagan wasn't making

951
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: policy on that, but she was the face of it,

952
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: and she had a significant role in setting public opinion.

953
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: And some of that's on Nancy, and some of that's

954
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: on Joan Quigley, some of that's on Ronnie. Yeah, most

955
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: of it's on Ronnie because Joan and Nancy weren't making policies. Well,

956
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: I feel like it's also it's always like frowned upon

957
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: for the president to like listen to his wife, you know,

958
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: and make policy based on that. But she gets her

959
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: little pet projects right, but like incarcerating drugs, incarcerating everybody, yeah,

960
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: the homie things, yeah uh so yeah. In addition to

961
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: urging Nancy to make anti drug policy a cornerstone of

962
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: her first ladyship, Joan insisted that Nancy avoid doing any

963
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: interviews with fashion magazines. I think she mainly includes this

964
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: part so that you can take another shot at Nancy

965
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: or another shot at seventeen magazine. She doesn't mention in

966
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: magazine by name. It's just like screw magazines, magaziness. Poor

967
00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: people go to form those only read gold. Yeah. She

968
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: says that not talking to fashion magazines was quote the

969
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: hardest thing for her to give that up. She tried

970
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: to wheedle me into letting her do it, but I

971
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: was firm. Joan claims at the time she picked for

972
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: Nancy to do her public appearances and her anti drug

973
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: speeches and stuff for as perfect as possible. She's very

974
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: proud of this work and says it's the reason that

975
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: Miss Reagan's reputation improved throughout her husband's time in office.

976
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: Here's Joan again, quite typically, when Nancy thanked me for

977
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: turning her image around, I said, and it was something

978
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: she was already aware of. Nancy Joe Kennedy paid between

979
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: one and two million dollars in nineteen sixty for what

980
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: I have done for thousands. In nineteen eighty one, she

981
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: claims Joe Kennedy had to pay publicists to make Jackie

982
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: Oh popular. Wish Oh. Come on, everybody would have loved

983
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: Jackie no matter what she did. She was fucking Jacklino

984
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: Nasis like, go to hell, John quickly. And then she

985
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: said to Nancy, really, you must admit it has been

986
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: a present. And again she was getting nine thousand dollars

987
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: a month in modern dollars. It's so hard because when

988
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: you're paying for astrology, any number seems both ludicrous and

989
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: completely safe. You know what I mean, nine thousand. If

990
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: you're if someone's giving you nine thousand dollars for this,

991
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: it seems easy to argue that that's a tiny amount.

992
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: And they're saying, I'm the only person who can give

993
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: you this information right also, I mean it. Joan Quigley

994
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: does not sound like a feminist, but in a way

995
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: advising the first lady to not push her cause in

996
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: fashion magazines is kind of a feminist stamp, and it

997
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: would be taken way more seriously if you avoid that

998
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: channel entirely. Like I'm kind of behind that. Yeah, I'm

999
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: not against that part. But also I'm like, Nancy Reagan

1000
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: just wanted to be in fashion magazines. That's how she

1001
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: wanted to be first Lady, so she could be on

1002
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: the cover of Vogue or whatever. And if she'd just

1003
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 1: been on the cover of Vogue and not been talking

1004
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: about drugs, yeah, maybe would be in a better place

1005
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: in the country. Should have stuck to fashion. Yeah, and more,

1006
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: I guess more to the point, what irks me is

1007
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: just like I'm sure that to Joan Quiggly, nine thousand

1008
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: dollars a month was a pittance, but like that's just

1009
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: further makes me dislike her, because it's like, like three

1010
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: families could have lived on what you just for this one.

1011
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: Joe Gurritos wants to pay us all to do astrology. No,

1012
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: and you know, as horrible as Joan Quigley is, is

1013
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: as good as cool ranch Dorito's taste after a hot

1014
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: day not eating doritos. Okay, let's let's move back on.

1015
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: Can we co opt this for our podcast? So now,

1016
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: I like really wanted to if you guys get a

1017
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: Dorito sponsorship, I just got to say, super, We're going

1018
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: to try our best. I interviewed an influencer and I

1019
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: was like, how do you get brands to sponsor you?

1020
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: And she was like I just like at them and

1021
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, sponsor me. And I was like that works,

1022
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: and I was like I'm going to start. Yeah, now,

1023
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: brands all the time listening this should hashtag at Dorito's

1024
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 1: in the podcast and try to try tos for putting

1025
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: us in this whole world where we all need to

1026
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: be sponsored by brand to exist. Hell world, don't you

1027
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: mean na choantastic world? I mean a cool a cool

1028
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: ranch where it is a cool ranch. Well, Santa Barbara,

1029
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: you brought it back there before. Yeah, I salute you

1030
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: for that. Uh So Yeah. She own claims that her

1031
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: advice made Nancy Reagan more popular, and it's hard to

1032
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: argue with that, at least in the fact that Nancy

1033
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: Reagan did get a lot more popular. She started with

1034
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: like a fifty seven percent approval rating after her first year,

1035
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: but rose to seventy one percent by nineteen eighty five.

1036
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: So whether or not it was Jones doing Nancy Reagan

1037
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: was a lot more popular by Ragie. She was right

1038
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: about not doing the fashion magazines too, because the fashion

1039
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: magazines would have just been a list of like what

1040
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: expensive things she was doing exactly and wearing. But also

1041
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: as the eighties, I thought that's all anybody wanted. No,

1042
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I think she's trying. I think

1043
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: Joan was trying to create the illusion of substance where

1044
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: she found none. Well, you know, the main way, that's

1045
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: what Jane would say, Yeah, right, true, big way to

1046
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: create the illusion of substance is to not talk that much. Hmm,

1047
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: that's true, or to just appear. I mean when she

1048
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: had Nancy kind of choose her projects and then mention

1049
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: those all the time. She's also kind of editing out

1050
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: anything else Nancy might want to say, totally go over

1051
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: way less. Well, she's giving her talking points. Yeah and yeah,

1052
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: and Joan work started with Nancy Reagan's image, but it

1053
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: did not end there. As the months and years went on,

1054
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: Nancy came to rely on Joan more and more. It's

1055
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 1: hard to say what influenced her husband's worsening health had

1056
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: on this, but Joan's involvement in the Reagan administration became extensive.

1057
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from Joan. I was responsible for timing

1058
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: all press conferences, most speeches. The State of the Union

1059
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: addresses the takeoffs and landings of Air Force one. I

1060
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: picked the time of Ronald Reagan's debate with Carter and

1061
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: the two debates with Walter Mondale, all extended trips abroad,

1062
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: as well as the shorter trips in one day excursions.

1063
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: In other words, Reagan did not leave the White House

1064
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: without Jones say so. She also helped the Reagans make

1065
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: major health decisions. Quote. I delayed President Reagan's first operation

1066
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: for cancer from July tenth, nineteen eighty five to July thirteenth,

1067
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: and chose the time for Nancy's mistectomy. So she's got

1068
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: an unbelievable amount of influence. Did anyone think it was

1069
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: weird that they were having like press conferences at like

1070
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: twelve twenty five or something, you know, they did? There

1071
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: were like that's one of the quotes from earlier as

1072
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: people talking about it, it it was weird the times they

1073
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 1: would set for things, and nobody really knew exactly why,

1074
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: but there would be myths, like Nancy said, this isn't

1075
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: a good time. That seems like like some smoking gun

1076
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, that Joan was picking the times that

1077
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: they were weird times. No, it's one of those things.

1078
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: Like it's definitely like no one who is who is

1079
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: close to the administration is refuted any of this. Like

1080
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: Nancy said, it wasn't that big idea. It's true, but

1081
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: Donald Reagan's like, no, like the thing, Yeah, it sure

1082
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: was a thing. It's important that you understand. Joan quickly

1083
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: never claimed to be clairvoyant, which is how Donald Reagan

1084
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: described her. I don't think Donald Reagan was an astrology guy.

1085
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 1: She claims that a clairvoyant is a mystic or a psychic,

1086
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: while Joane sees herself as basically a scientist, and this

1087
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: is her view of astrology. I based my astrological analysis

1088
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: on the data provided by astronomers and charts calculated by computers.

1089
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: My conclusions are based on this accurate scientific material, in

1090
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: the same way your doctor supports his diagnosis by the

1091
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: laboratory reports, or an economist bases his predictions on statistics.

1092
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: So Joan didn't have a computer of her own, this

1093
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: was the eighties. She would send a lot of the

1094
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: information that she was calculating off to third party companies

1095
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: who had computers, which means that in addition to the

1096
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: unsecured phone call she was having with Nancy Reagan about

1097
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: the president's secret schedule, she was also sending off that

1098
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: information to strangers. Was she saying in her was she

1099
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: like sending postcards basically saying the President wants to have

1100
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: Air Force one launching it to this place on this

1101
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: date at this time. All she says is that no

1102
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: one could have figured out what they were talking about

1103
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: based on the info she gave those people. But we're

1104
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: having to take her word from it, right right, So

1105
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: I'm just setting that up that there's a severe breach

1106
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: in the President's information security as a result of this

1107
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: astrology thing that's going on. So Joan is a serious lady.

1108
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: She had nothing but contempt for astrologers who write for

1109
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: newspapers and magazines like she used to do when she

1110
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: was young and needed the money. She rages that there

1111
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: are at present no forced standards for astrologers and that

1112
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: unworthy people cannot be prevented from assuming what should be

1113
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: a respected title. So she's very angry about popular astrology,

1114
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the astrology that people can afford

1115
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: if they can afford a newspaper. Miss quickly spent a

1116
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: large chunk of her book trying to convince us that

1117
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: astrologers have been historically necessary in government. She points out

1118
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: that most great kings had astrologers, that Isaac Newton believed

1119
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: in astrology, that Einstein believed in astrology. So like, she

1120
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: spends a lot of her book trying to convince you

1121
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: that it's fine for an astrologer to be advising the president. Now.

1122
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: In her view of the world, every achievement of the

1123
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: Reagan era, and also every human achievement in general, was

1124
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: made possible by the combination of the stars being in

1125
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: the right position. She credits the miracle of flight to

1126
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: the fact that Neptune and Pluto were together in the

1127
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: air sign of Gemini in the early nineteen hundreds. That's true, Okay, good,

1128
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: good to know. I thought it was like people, Oh yeah,

1129
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: everybody met the air and dying until they got it right.

1130
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: But no, it's good. That's magnets, yeah, stars. I could

1131
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: go back and forth about like all the different things

1132
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: Joan believed. I wound up putting a lot more of

1133
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: that in the first draft of this that I trimmed

1134
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: out just because, like, let's keep it to the Reagans.

1135
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: It is important. You know that. She claims to put

1136
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: in a huge amount of work to the charts that

1137
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: she was doing so. For example, exact birth times are

1138
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: necessary for good horoscopes. Since Ronald Reagan was born back

1139
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: in the olden times before people kept track of when

1140
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: babies were born, Joan had to rectify him, which is

1141
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: the term she uses for some reason for figuring out

1142
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: someone's birth time using backwards math. So she claims to

1143
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: have calculated both Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan's birth times. Did

1144
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: Joe tell me tell you how what backwards math is? Like,

1145
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm dying to know about back It's a little bit

1146
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: of magic, are you? I got that quote? When you

1147
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,959
Speaker 1: don't know what time of day an individual was born,

1148
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: and for serious astrology, the exact birth time is indispensable.

1149
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: You must figure it out from such clues as the

1150
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,919
Speaker 1: known events of that person's past, their appearance in psychological

1151
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: and physical characteristics, not already explained by the other factors

1152
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: in their horoscope. Oh it's not math at all. No, no, no,

1153
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: she claims to know the exact manner. Oh so it's

1154
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: like reverse. She's like, oh, he seems like he was

1155
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: born in around twelve twenty five, so exactly, it seems

1156
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: like an afternoon or yeah, seems like a fourth using

1157
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: personality to be like okay, yeah, sure, yeah yeah, And

1158
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: everyone who could have proved her wrong on this has

1159
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: been dead for decades because Ronald Reagan was born in

1160
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: like the teens. Yeah, you know clocks then either, So

1161
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: we have to cut for some what are those things

1162
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: where people sell stuff and other people learn about products

1163
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: and service Doritos. We're having a Dorito's break now, so

1164
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: you guys have a crunch tastic time listening to these

1165
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: taste ads, and we're back. So we were just talking

1166
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: about how Nancy Reagan figured out what she claimed to

1167
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: be Ronald Reagan's exact time of birth, uh, and also

1168
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: Gorbachov's exact time of birth so that she could do

1169
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: their charts, which which comes up later. But let's let's

1170
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: veer back right now and talk about the Challenger Space

1171
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: shuttle disaster. I ran across some Twitter, unverified Twitter comments

1172
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: by people claiming that Ronald Reagan's astrologer had picked the

1173
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: time for the Challenger Shuttle launch. I found no evidence

1174
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: of that, but Joan does claim that she's the reason

1175
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: the President ordered an investigation of NASA after the Challenger disaster.

1176
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: According to Joan, the President had Nancy ask her whether

1177
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: or not the stars said NASHA should be investigated after

1178
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: seven astronauts died in an explosion, which, yes, regardless of

1179
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: what the stars say, someone should investigate. But yeah, Joan

1180
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: says that she analyzed the charts for the launch and

1181
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: the astronauts and said that there ought to be an investigation.

1182
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: The Twelfth House indicated that sabotage, at worst or at

1183
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: least inexcusable negligence had been involved in the crash, which

1184
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: was obviously true because space shuttles aren't supposed to explode.

1185
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: That seems like a like a like an easy get

1186
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: for for Where was Joan before the Launch's interested in

1187
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: right in flight? Now? Yes, well get close to the stars. Yeah,

1188
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: it's weird that she didn't call that one right the

1189
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: same time, but she doesn't know when bad things are

1190
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: going to happen. She also she only knows that she

1191
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: could have predicted them. Yeah, if she. If only I

1192
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: hadn't been doing if only you gave me more money,

1193
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: I would have known. Yeah, that this what happened. Yeah,

1194
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, she's the reason there was an investigation in

1195
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: an assa after this. Now, older listeners may remember that

1196
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was known as the Teflon President because many

1197
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: many scandals during his presidency didn't seem to stick to

1198
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: him up until you know the very end. John quickly

1199
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: claims credit for this too, in a chapter of her

1200
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: book titled Astrology. Was the Teflon and the Teflon Presidency beautiful?

1201
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: It's great, It's a work of art. Really, here's Joan.

1202
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: For almost six years, the president dominated his press conferences,

1203
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: partly because he was well prepared, and finally because the

1204
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: times I chose for his press conferences enabled him to

1205
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: appear at his best. She repeatedly insists that my control

1206
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: over the departure times at Air Force One when the

1207
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: President was aboard were absolute. Her most vivid story of

1208
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: sort of deflecting a scandal for the President came during

1209
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: the run up of his trip to Germany in nineteen

1210
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,959
Speaker 1: eighty five. He was going to help shore up Helmet Cole,

1211
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: the German Prime Minister in a reelection campaign. There was

1212
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: a big photo op opportunity that was supposed to be

1213
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: important to the German public. Where the two men were

1214
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 1: going to go to a cemetery in Bittberg where they'd

1215
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: lay to rest a wreath commemorating the dead of World

1216
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: War Two. It was a lovely gesture, but the President's

1217
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: team failed to account for the forty nine dead Waffen

1218
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: ss men buried there. This became a huge issue in America.

1219
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: I just talked about kind of Illeisel was very angry

1220
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: about it. People marched in the streets. Israeli and American

1221
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 1: Jewish leaders were outraged, but Helmet Cole insisted the visit

1222
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: was necessary, and most Germans seemed to agree. Ronnie needed

1223
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: to support Cole because his re election was critical to

1224
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,439
Speaker 1: write Reagan's Cold War strategy, something about where he wanted

1225
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: to put missiles. So bereft of good options, Ronald Reagan

1226
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: turned to Joan Quigley. She claims to have suggested that

1227
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: the administration basically make a visit to bergen Belsen concentration

1228
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: camp before going to Bittberg, and that they would publicize

1229
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: that a lot more. She also claimed that the timing

1230
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: on when they visited Bitberg was critical, so she picked

1231
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: an exact like minute and like this is the minute

1232
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: that Air Force one has to land. And what mattered

1233
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: was not the context of the president's visit or that

1234
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: he was laying a wreathit a cemetery that included dead

1235
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: asss men. What mattered was that astrologically the right time

1236
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: was chosen. Jones time didn't work out with the president's

1237
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,479
Speaker 1: existing plan. They're supposed to have a picnic or something,

1238
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: so she canceled the picnic, and then she had the

1239
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: Air Force One fly around in circles for as long

1240
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: as it had to in order to land at Bitberg

1241
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: at her chosen time. So she just had the Air

1242
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: Force One just circling for hours, waiting for the right

1243
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: astrological time, burning jet fuel. How did the public receive

1244
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: this visit? They didn't know. I don't know. It was

1245
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: actually a disaster. This is Michael Moore. One of the

1246
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: first times he shows up on TV is as at

1247
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: a crowd of protesters at Bitburg. Hold. Yeah, yeah, but

1248
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: Helmet Cole was re elected in the controversy did eventually fade,

1249
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: which Joan credits to the fact that she had Air

1250
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: Force one burn enough fuel that yeah, they were able

1251
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 1: and at her specifically chosen astrological time. So again, people

1252
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: noticed at the time that the Reagans had really weird

1253
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: timing issues because there were like White House correspondents that

1254
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: had worked with other presidents who didn't use astrologers. Joan

1255
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: notes that like or who did with their astrologers, gave

1256
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: them like times, you know, hour normal people till Yeah,

1257
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: because Joe, it's always like twenty minutes past the Yeah

1258
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: with you, because that's how you make it seem like

1259
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: it's a special time. Yeah. No, twelve twenty five. Yeah.

1260
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,959
Speaker 1: I keep feel like we all keep saying twelve twenty five,

1261
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: Well there's probably an astrological Yeah, it's when the seventh

1262
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: house is in the night House. Yeah. Well it's also

1263
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: Christmas when the moon is in the seven twelve twenty

1264
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: five wait what oh yeah wow yeah, yeah, that's when George,

1265
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: you should be an astrologer. Because you just did a

1266
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: whit on me. I was like, why I played it

1267
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: being an astrologer on AOL instant messenger when I was

1268
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: in like junior high almost got to charging people money,

1269
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, I can't do this. Well,

1270
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: stream of Bay, I know you could be that kind

1271
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: of astrologer, not this president but I'm saying, what if

1272
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: you did and then you like were able to bring

1273
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: it down, you know, because if you have that much power, right,

1274
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: you could be like, you know, serious saying I'm in

1275
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: the wrong. Oh so definitely. Donald Trump reads everything on

1276
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: the teleprompter like an anchorman. You know, you could just

1277
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: get him to say anything. Yeah. So I'm just maybe

1278
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: I should be the presidential astrologer. Yeah, as long as

1279
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't listen to this podcast, you can't get that

1280
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: job here, I know. Yeah. There's a quote in Jones

1281
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: book from Bill Plant of CBS which is fascinating to

1282
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: me because he was basically talking about how the White

1283
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: House correspondence would always wonder why the timing was so weird.

1284
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: We wondered if there was any strategy involved, and we

1285
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: were relieved to learn that the obvious reason was astrology.

1286
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: Keep being quotes. It's like, why were you relieved at that?

1287
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: Like what was going on in the eighties could be

1288
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: something even weirder. Yeah, yeah, god, yeah, you're right. Just

1289
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean I would have just assumed panic attacks, like

1290
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: every time someone's late, I'm like, oh, it's a panic attack,

1291
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: or I would have it was like to throw off

1292
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: the rhythm of the press Corps or something to keep

1293
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 1: people on their toes. Yeah, but you make people wait,

1294
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: it's like a power move. Yeah. So yeah. Joan takes

1295
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: credit for being the Teflon in the Teflon presidency. She

1296
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: also takes credit for the being the only reason that

1297
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan stayed alive through his term. Quote, the fact

1298
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: that the cancer did not reoccur is due to the

1299
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,439
Speaker 1: excellent time I chose astrologically. So she claims to have

1300
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: been the reason his cancer didn't come back, which I

1301
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: would give to the doctor, but whatever. She also takes

1302
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: credit to the fact that Ronald Reagan was not assassinated

1303
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: during his time in office. While Reagan had times where

1304
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: he could have been assassinated, I was always able to

1305
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: protect him by warning him not to appear in public

1306
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: at vulnerable times. Now I'm angry at her for stopping

1307
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan from being and save your assassination wants for

1308
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: other more worthy people. You know, there's a lot of people.

1309
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: I got so into just hating her in the book

1310
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: that I was just angry at her for taking credit

1311
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: for everything. Yeah. But again again, right, she's taking credit

1312
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: for like was that, Well, it's just it's like she

1313
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: talks about like the invasion of Grenada, and like there's

1314
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: no discussion about like whether it was morally right or

1315
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: like the people who died. It was all about like

1316
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: I had to make sure Air Force one landed at

1317
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: the right time. When he gave his speech about like

1318
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: the Grenada invasions, like that's not the thing to be

1319
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: concerned about. Joan quickly, well, that's varsity league. She's in

1320
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: junior league. It's totally different to handle different things, you know.

1321
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. So yeah, Joan takes credit for everything

1322
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: good that happened during the Reagan administration. The only mistake

1323
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: she admits to making is in picking the time for

1324
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: Reagan's first debate with Walter Mondale during his nineteen eighty

1325
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,919
Speaker 1: four re election campaign. Mondale is generally seen as winning

1326
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 1: that debate, but Joan actually kind of takes credit for

1327
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,919
Speaker 1: this too. So when she was charting it, she put

1328
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: his son in a prominent position in the location chart

1329
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: for the time and place in the debate. A reason

1330
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: that he had so little charisma and personality that the sun,

1331
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: normally indicative of these traits, would simply emphasize his deficit. Characteristics. Unfortunately,

1332
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: she claims that putting the sun in that position in

1333
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 1: his chart in the time she picked actually made Mondale

1334
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: unstoppably powerful in the first debate, which is why Reagan lost.

1335
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: So that's good to know for Walter Mondale, if he's

1336
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, he had an even more powerful astrologer. Yeah,

1337
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: you know who just died before the second debate wis Yeah,

1338
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: well we're gonna get to some dueling wizards a little

1339
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: bit here. Well, maybe she's also responsible for hiding President

1340
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 1: Reagan from the public during the days after his biggest scandal,

1341
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: Iran Gate broke. For those of you who don't know,

1342
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: the Iran Conscious scandal started in nineteen eighty five when

1343
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 1: a group called Hesbalah and Lebanon kidnapped seven Americans. America

1344
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: went to Iran and was like, hey, could you guys

1345
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: get hesbel At a chill out for like and give

1346
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: us these guys back, and if you do, we'll give

1347
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: you missiles which you can use to shoot at Iraq.

1348
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: Iran in Iraq were war at the time. We were

1349
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: also giving a Raq weapon so that they could shoot Iran.

1350
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: But President Reagan was like, why not arm both sides

1351
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: of the conflict and free some hostage at the same time.

1352
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: So we had Israel sell weapons to Iran, and then

1353
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: we paid back Israel in more way weapons, and then

1354
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: there wound up being a bunch of extra cash leftover

1355
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: after this. And a guy named Alie North was like, oh,

1356
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: you know, we've got all these far right wing rebels

1357
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: in Nicaragua fighting the socialist government there. And there's an

1358
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 1: Act of Congress called the bowl In Amendment that says,

1359
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: we can't give the contras more money, but what if

1360
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: we just keep selling more missiles to Iran and give

1361
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: the money to the Contras now? And so anyway, that's

1362
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: what they did, and it's different from what gangs do

1363
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: because everyone wore suits. So that's the Iran Contra scandal

1364
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: in a nutshell. The story broke in late nineteen eighty

1365
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: six and Americans got very angry that the president and

1366
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: his men had illegally funded a terrorist group linked to

1367
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: twelve hundred attacks. Joan claimed that the stars were too

1368
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: bad for her to help with this scandal. The major

1369
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 1: cosmic forces had so turned against Reagan that what I

1370
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: had been able to do earlier was impossible for me

1371
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: to do. Then, so she just advised Nancy Reagan to

1372
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,759
Speaker 1: not have the president talk to anybody, and Donald Reagan

1373
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: criticizes her during this for limiting the president's exposure to

1374
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: the media and the public. This period, people were yelling

1375
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: basically for President Reagan to say something about this gigantic scandal,

1376
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't say a word, which apparently all due

1377
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 1: to Joan Quickly saying don't talk to anybody, which I

1378
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe President Reagan would have made the choice

1379
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 1: to shut up no matter what, but I'm sure Joan

1380
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: telling him it was too dangerous for him to talk

1381
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 1: to the press about all these missiles he had sold

1382
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: people did not help matters. So I think that goes

1383
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: in the Joan Quickly bad pile, if you're keeping track.

1384
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: But I mean, like, if he had said something, we

1385
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: don't know what he would have said, sorry, would have

1386
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: been nice. Maybe she knew him so well at that

1387
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: point that she knew that what he would say would

1388
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: be even worse than just nothing. Yeah, And the way

1389
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: Joan puts this is the media was crying out for

1390
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: press conferences, which in my opinion, would have been disastrous

1391
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 1: to the president's interest in during which he would have

1392
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: been at a disadvantage, which again she doesn't express any

1393
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: care for the nation's interests or for the fact that

1394
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,600
Speaker 1: an actual crime had been committed. It's just this is

1395
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: bad for the president, right, and that's my only concern.

1396
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: And he's famous and that reflects on me, right. Yeah. Well,

1397
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: no one knew about her at this point, right, But

1398
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,719
Speaker 1: to her, she knew she was the power. Yeah. Yeah,

1399
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: she didn't want it to go bad. She also claims

1400
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: to be responsible for beginning the end of the Cold War. Uh. Yeah, no,

1401
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 1: that's a big one to say, credible. Yeah, I was

1402
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,520
Speaker 1: heavily involved in what happened in the relations between the superpowers,

1403
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: changing Ronald Reagan's evil empire attitude so that when he

1404
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: went to Geneva, so that he went to Geneva prepared

1405
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: to meet a different kind of Russian leader and one

1406
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: he could convince of doing things our way. See. Joan

1407
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: claimed she did Gorbachev's chart and figured out his birth

1408
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: time and figured out that he and Ronald had the

1409
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: potential to be best friends and bring peace to the world.

1410
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,679
Speaker 1: Best friends. Yeah, best friends, Reagan and Gorbachev. You remember

1411
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: when they brought world peace? Yeah? Where we have world peace.

1412
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: It's now. Yeah, it's great, fair, that's perfect now. Yeah.

1413
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,599
Speaker 1: So Jones saw that there was the potential for an

1414
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: incredible collaboration between these two. She just had to cool

1415
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan's hot heart. So she incepted the idea of

1416
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 1: peace with the USSR into Ronald Reagan by bringing the

1417
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: idea up to Nancy Reagan. I'm going to read this

1418
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: orbatim because it's just just charming. Do me a favor.

1419
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: I told Nancy Ronnie can be so charming and persuasive.

1420
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: Get him to exercises super salesmanship ability on Gorbachev. Get

1421
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: him to sell arms reduction, democracy, human rights, and free

1422
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 1: enterprise to the Secretary General. She added, it only makes

1423
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: sense for both sides to agree to reduce the grandiose

1424
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: military expenditures that are causing the national debt to rise

1425
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: in the USA and the Soviets and abysmal standard of living.

1426
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: Ronnie will be able to reason with Gorbachev and convince

1427
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: him of doing things our way, you know, freedom and

1428
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: free enterprise. Which, yeah, I wait, am I siding with

1429
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: Joan because she wants to curb military Sunday? I mean,

1430
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: it's it's just the way she phrases it. It's a

1431
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: goof just get him to sell arms reduction. It's like

1432
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: how she says it, like it's a horoscope though. Yeah, yeah,

1433
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: like don't go on a trip tomorrow. Yeah, no, I

1434
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,560
Speaker 1: don't disagree with like, I mean, that's obvious. It's the

1435
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: only good policy thing she said so far. Yeah, I'm

1436
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: not that good, like better than that in the fashion magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1437
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: it's it's it's not bad. I have trouble believing that.

1438
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: That's what convinced Ronald Reagan to deal with Do you

1439
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,799
Speaker 1: find it difficult? But you know, freedom and free enterprise.

1440
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: You have to give her the wins along with the lawsuits.

1441
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, You're right. That's fair. So Joan

1442
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: wound up had there was a big secret meeting in

1443
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 1: Rekkievic between Grbachav and Reagan. It was a big deal

1444
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: because you know, fucking cold, what is like red dawn

1445
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 1: yere So the fact that they were actually sitting down

1446
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 1: and talking was a big deal. Joan did this in

1447
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: spite of the fact that she had no idea where

1448
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: Reikievic was. Nancy mentioned their meeting to her and asked

1449
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: if the president should go and Joan's first question was

1450
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: where on earth is Reikievic and how do you spell it?

1451
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: Which maybe ought to be like your your sign that

1452
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be weighing in on this, But there, what's

1453
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,560
Speaker 1: that Jay doing in there? It's true, it's a confusing

1454
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: ass Jay, and the why is a little weird too,

1455
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: But Joan still did the work. And while the Reikievic

1456
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: meeting didn't end with any conclusive because President Reagan wasn't

1457
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: willing to give up his Star Wars missile defense plan,

1458
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: it was a big step towards thawing in the Cold War,

1459
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 1: and it led eventually to the signing of the Intermediate

1460
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: Range Nuclear Forces Treaty or the IF Treaty. This treaty

1461
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: basically pulled a lot of short range nukes out of

1462
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: Europe and led to the elimination of something like twenty

1463
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: six hundred missiles, which, regardless of your politics, is a

1464
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: good thing. Twenty six hundred less nukes in the world

1465
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: because of this treaty. So negotiations for the inf actually

1466
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: had been ongoing through back channels and shit since like

1467
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, but by nineteen eighty seven, Gorbachev was

1468
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,799
Speaker 1: ready to fly over to America and sign the treaty.

1469
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: The decision for whden where to host the meeting, of course,

1470
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 1: was Jones, so she plotted everything out and sent her recommendations.

1471
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: The Russians agreed at first, but then they kept switching

1472
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: around the times and changing their plans, often at the

1473
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: last minute, until the dates for the summit and the

1474
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: times for the signing were fixed at, according to Joan,

1475
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: close to the worst possible astrological time to do it. Oh,

1476
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,680
Speaker 1: this is probably not a coincidence. In fact, it was

1477
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: almost certainly the result of a great untold duel between

1478
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: a US astrologer and the Soviet Union. Nancy had been

1479
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: Joan for years at that point, informing her about secret

1480
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: meetings with Soviet premiere months before they actually happened. There

1481
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: was zero informational security in this meeting. So not only

1482
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 1: is Joan sending off information about this to random computer

1483
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: people to have it computed, but like they're talking on

1484
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 1: an unsecured line. They did sometimes talk through the White

1485
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 1: House switchboard and gonna I'm gonna quote from Joan's recollection here.

1486
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: Nancy always chided me for refusing to leave my full

1487
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: name and number with the switchboard. I told her it

1488
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: made me uneasy. I told her operators talked. She said

1489
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: I was silly to worry about something like that. I know,

1490
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: She said, all White House operators are secretive and reliable.

1491
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: Nancy told me she would give me an assumed names

1492
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: that I could always get through to her through the

1493
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: White House switchboard. She would choose the assumed name for

1494
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: me and put it on a list. This would automatically

1495
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:47,799
Speaker 1: give me access. The name she chose was Joan Frisco

1496
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: Ha. Ha Ha was from San Francisco. So Joan is convinced

1497
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: that their conversations were intercepted by the Soviet Union. The

1498
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: Soviet Union changed the time times of the treaty meeting

1499
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: in order to favor themselves and hurt Ronald Reagan as

1500
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 1: much as possible. Very well, maybe what happened now Astrology

1501
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: was illegal in the Soviet Union? Really Yeah, well they were.

1502
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: Religion was illegal. So they're not big on superstition in

1503
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, so I think they are, which is

1504
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: why it has to be banned. Yeah yeah, yeah, well

1505
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: you forget astrology science. Well I was saying, maybe Resputant

1506
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 1: was still alive. Well, I think it does tie back

1507
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: to resputing. Yeah. I think that's probably a big part

1508
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: of why it was. So it seems like one of

1509
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: the two. Either the Soviets found an astrology they hadn't

1510
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: in prison and had that person pick the worst times,

1511
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: or they just made sure to always fuck with the

1512
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: timing once that Reagan said it, because they knew that

1513
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 1: it would upset him that he wasn't doing that. I

1514
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: think that's what happened. But it's funner to think of

1515
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: it as like a I could sell a screenplay on

1516
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: an astrology duel. But yeah, definitely in the United States,

1517
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 1: so there's any producers on them, or if Dorito's wants

1518
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 1: to back the first Dorito's feature film original content, Yes,

1519
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: favorite streaming platform this is. This is going to make

1520
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: us a lot of money. I'm so exciting, Okay, I

1521
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: hope so yeah, I mean that would just be a pittance,

1522
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: but I'll take it. I'll do that work on Yeah.

1523
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: Oh damn it, watch out, we're gonna take your sponsorship. No,

1524
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: you're so much better at this than me. Yeah. So

1525
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 1: Joan blames the information leaking on Nancy's cunning ruse, calling

1526
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: her Joan Frisco. I think it's just as likely that

1527
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 1: it happened because she was they were talking on home

1528
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 1: phone lines or she was sending stuff off to computer people.

1529
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: Either way, clearly wasn't a secure situation. Joan found the

1530
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: best time of day to do the signing, even with

1531
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 1: all of the Soviet fuckery, and she warned Nancy Reagan

1532
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 1: that since they weren't signing in a great day, she

1533
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: had to be super careful to use the exact time

1534
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: that Joan suggested for the day that they did sign it,

1535
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: but Nancy messed up and they signed like twenty minutes later.

1536
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: Joan suggests this is because Nancy had just said cancer surgery,

1537
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: you know from the case answer that Joan claims she

1538
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: foresaw it didn't warn Nancy about, and then adds, under

1539
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 1: such circumstances, she can't be blamed for not arranging the

1540
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: signing with her usual foresight and precision, which is nice.

1541
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: It's the only break she gives Nancy Reagan in her

1542
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: whole book. So the IONF Treaty is probably one of

1543
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: the most inarguable accomplishments of the Reagan era. Thousands of

1544
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons were destroyed. Both sides were allowed to send

1545
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: advisors over to inspect the process. The whole world was

1546
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: made a little bit safer by the implementation of this treaty.

1547
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: Here's what Joan said about it. The execution of the

1548
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: if treaty signing time was flawed. The exact time I

1549
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: had asked for would have had the effect of filling

1550
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 1: up a tea cup nearly to the brim at the

1551
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 1: same time ensuring that the tea cup would not fill

1552
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: up too fast or spill over. Then Joan mixes the

1553
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 1: shit out of her metaphors. What we now had, in

1554
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 1: effect was a car whose brakes had failed, checked through

1555
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: crowded intersections, just a classic filled tea cup car speed

1556
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: through an intersection. So Joan claimed that either the treaty

1557
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: was going in disastrously for the world, because she wrote

1558
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: this in nineteen ninety before all the effects, the treaty

1559
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: was going to end disaster, or it was going to

1560
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 1: be like a thoroughbred racing unchallenged towards the finish lines.

1561
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: That's awesome. She only hedges her bets when she's talking

1562
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: about the future. Whenever she talks about a prediction she

1563
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: made in the past, it was always very clear to her.

1564
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: But Joan's not consistent. Is what I'm saying here, So yeah,

1565
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,799
Speaker 1: to this day, I don't know how safe that treaty

1566
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: is for us or the world. I haven't had the

1567
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: heart to progress that signing chart as I did the

1568
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 1: other it was fine. I haven't had the heart and

1569
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:28,839
Speaker 1: alsor they're not paying me anymore. They're not paying me anymore.

1570
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, Joan quickly wasn't sure that the IF treaty

1571
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 1: was a good idea, but she's damned sure that Nancy

1572
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: Reagan is a monster. At times, she writes about Nancy

1573
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: Reagan like Nancy was a vampire. Basically, I mean, is

1574
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 1: she wrong again? I guess not. No, she's not wrong.

1575
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: Two people can both be monsters. Yeah, two people can

1576
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: both be monsters. She claims that Nancy grew stronger as

1577
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan grew weaker, as if she was like feeding

1578
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 1: off of Ronald's essence again, you know, like a vampire.

1579
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: Maybe she knows she was close to Nancy. Yeah. When

1580
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: I say she knows where the bodies are buried, I

1581
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: mean she was. She's a vampire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess.

1582
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: Like to me, I get frustrated because I'm like, even

1583
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: if you're within an awful administration, you got to be

1584
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: loyal to the people who are the only reason that

1585
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: you're noteworthy, and like Nancy Reagan is the reason you

1586
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: got it brought into this. She was very nice to

1587
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 1: year in her shitty memoirs. You should be not a

1588
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: monster to her. But again, the astrologer's job is to

1589
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: tell the truth and the politician's job is to, you know,

1590
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 1: try and make everybody happy. And that's that's fair because

1591
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: certainly Nancy Reagan doesn't deserve any equivocating here, that's right. Yeah, yeah, Okay,

1592
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: it's be real about Nancy Reagan. And she's polite but bad. See,

1593
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: I get too drawn in when I read someone's terrible memoirs, yea,

1594
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: And I don't. I don't hate Nancy Reagan as much

1595
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: as I ought to because her memoirs are better written.

1596
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: Probably she had more money for a good ghost write. Ah,

1597
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 1: that's why. Yeah. So I don't want to defend Nancy

1598
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 1: Reagan anymore. I do want to make it clear that

1599
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: Quigley was terrible at predicting the future, because while she

1600
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: usually equivocated between you two points and would say like, oh,

1601
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 1: the treaty is either going to be a disaster or

1602
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: fine to kind of like sometimes she did make specific

1603
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: predictions in her memoirs about things that were going to

1604
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,719
Speaker 1: happen in the future, and they are all wrong. Here's

1605
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: one aiding the Contras wasn't popular in many circles. History

1606
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,759
Speaker 1: will one day prove that Ronald Reagan was strategically correct.

1607
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: The Contras signed a peace treaty with the government in

1608
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven. The leader they were fighting, Ortega, is

1609
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: still in charge of Nicaragua. Joan Quiggley said that if

1610
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 1: this remained the case, all of Latin America would fall

1611
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 1: to communism, still waiting on that. She also includes the

1612
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: text of a letter she sent to Ronald Reagan saying

1613
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,879
Speaker 1: that development of SDI the Star Wars Strategic Defense initiative,

1614
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 1: was a brilliant strategy. So he said he would go

1615
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 1: down in history with Lincoln and Roosevelt as the best

1616
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: American presidents, but he would be known as the greatest

1617
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: of America's presidents because while Lincoln just solved slavery and

1618
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: Roosevelt just solved World War Two, Donald Reagan would quote

1619
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 1: bring peace to the world. Oh man, what if if

1620
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: only she'd been right. Yeah, Well, she wasn't right about

1621
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: any of that, because the Strategic Defense initiative was scrapped

1622
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three for being expensive nonsense. World peace

1623
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 1: still has not happened. Yeah, but also Trump brought up

1624
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,839
Speaker 1: the Star Wars thing like yesterday. Definitely made an impression

1625
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 1: on him. Yeah, yep, so she did say conduct the

1626
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 1: course of history. Yeah. Well, in a way, she was

1627
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: a Charlatan, but she was working for Charlatan's Yeah, so

1628
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: he'd been working for the good guys. She probably would

1629
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: have done good guys stuff. I mean, just anything to

1630
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 1: advance her own interest, right, Yeah. She just seems like

1631
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: a self interested person. Yeah, that's she's definitely a self

1632
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: interested person. Most of my distaste for her comes from

1633
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: I feel like she was taking advantage of a scared

1634
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: lady whose husband had just gotten shot. Yeah, but who

1635
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: cares if it's Nancy Reagan. Yes, you takes just a

1636
01:21:56,200 --> 01:22:00,080
Speaker 1: scared lady. Yeah. Maybe that's why Nancy got so bad. No,

1637
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: it was bad, she was bad. I mean, I think

1638
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: like a lot of it probably comes from the fact too,

1639
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 1: that if you don't view astrology as any in any

1640
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 1: way legitimate, which I'm barely saying I even I do.

1641
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: By the way, Rob is an aries not a Pisces,

1642
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 1: just to make that clear. But he is on the cusp,

1643
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 1: so I wasn't that far off. But uh, I mean,

1644
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to see people who do believe

1645
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 1: in astrology or who charge to make astrological predictions as manipulative.

1646
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: And but I mean they're different than clairvoyance. It's true

1647
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: because they're actually looking at something that they believe they can. Yeah,

1648
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 1: they're looking at math, and they're trying to apply logic

1649
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: to an insane world to make people comforted by the

1650
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: idea that there's like a structure and a float of

1651
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:46,640
Speaker 1: things and that you can predict what it'll be. I

1652
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: think they believe in their own abilities. Well yeah, And see,

1653
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 1: this is one of the things that I question is

1654
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: whether or not because Joan isn't entirely consistent number one

1655
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 1: in her claims about what astrology can do, because there

1656
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:58,760
Speaker 1: will be times when she was like, there's nothing that

1657
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: could have changed the outcome this, and there's other times

1658
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 1: where she's like, you can guarantee the success of any

1659
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:06,639
Speaker 1: endeavor if you do this and this and this. She's

1660
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: a scammer, But she wasn't like giving the advice she

1661
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 1: was giving them was mostly about what time to do

1662
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 1: the bad things they were going to do, as opposed

1663
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: to being like, do this thing. Yeah, they were like,

1664
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: when you make the announcement about the horrible thing you're doing,

1665
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: do it at twelve twenty five. The only thing she

1666
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: claims that she was specifically giving advice that went beyond

1667
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: timing is for Nancy Reagan's war on drug stuff. Yeah.

1668
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you've done a great job of

1669
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: convincing me again that Nancy Reagan is one of his

1670
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: greatest monsters and we're getting behind a bastard here for Yeah.

1671
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think also she really used the fact

1672
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 1: that she was like, you know, the first lady to

1673
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,639
Speaker 1: hide the fact that she was a horrible person and

1674
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: should be remembered as such. And just because she was

1675
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: insecure doesn't mean that she didn't I mean, everything she did. Yeah.

1676
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: The Reagan's legacy has benefited so much from the nostalgia

1677
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 1: with conservatives that they look back on it as like

1678
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: the last great time. They were all in coke at

1679
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: that time too, for sure, And also we know people

1680
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: were maybe like not so cogent during points of the

1681
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 1: presidency and somebody maybe it was all over North, you know,

1682
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: somebody was in their ear being like, do this horrible thing,

1683
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 1: and they were saying yes. So you know, you still

1684
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 1: have the the president you can say like no, I

1685
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: don't want to. Yeah. So I don't think we should

1686
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: put too much on the people that influenced the Reagans.

1687
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 1: I think we should really just lay the blame at

1688
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: the feet of the Reagans for being such assholes. Well,

1689
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of blame to go around for

1690
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: the Reagans, I guess might I don't think Joan was

1691
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 1: the I don't think she's the one to blame. I

1692
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: think if we're gonna blame anyone, let's blame Aliver North.

1693
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: I think she gets some blame, though, cause I think

1694
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: number one just for the war on drugs, not just

1695
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: for the war on drugs. I still think that Nancy's

1696
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: recollection of how Joan came back into her life rings

1697
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 1: truer to me than Jones does. And I think that

1698
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: Joan was taking advantage of that. And I also think

1699
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 1: I think Joe knew that she was not as I

1700
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: think whether and I think she must have believed in

1701
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: astrology to some extent, obviously, but I think she knew

1702
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: that it was not as cut and dry and clear

1703
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: cut as she claims in her book, and I think

1704
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: getting involved in global geopolitics to the extent that she

1705
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: did with no qualifications. Yeah, but again that's what the

1706
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,559
Speaker 1: Reagans did. That's a good point, you know, I mean,

1707
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: especially Nancy. He definitely for Nancy. He'd been a governor

1708
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: at that point, but he wasn't a good governor, and

1709
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 1: he got cast in the role because he was like

1710
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:41,799
Speaker 1: someone you know, he was like Trump. He was somebody

1711
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: that really evil. People were like, this guy will make

1712
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 1: a good face for our evil white supremacist and he

1713
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: seemed able to be manipulated, and he was able to

1714
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: be manipulated, which made him a good you know. And

1715
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 1: I think people do kind of use the excuse of like, oh,

1716
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: maybe he was senile, And there's rumors he had Alzheimer's

1717
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: at a certain point in the presidency. Definite. But again

1718
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: it's like he still thought it was a good idea

1719
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 1: to be president. He wasn't like, hey, maybe I'm not

1720
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,679
Speaker 1: the most qualified person. He like, let all those people

1721
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 1: gas them up. To be fair, if you have Alzheimer's

1722
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 1: or your senile, you're not going to be you can't

1723
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: be held accountable for your decisions, even if they're terry. Right.

1724
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, don't thinking had Alzheimer's when you became governor.

1725
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: I think you had ambitions. But you know, if your

1726
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:24,639
Speaker 1: ambitions are like I'll do whatever it takes to stay

1727
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: in power and get into power, you probably shouldn't be

1728
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:29,599
Speaker 1: in power. I don't disagree with that when it comes

1729
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 1: to Ronald Reagan or for Nancy. But I don't think

1730
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 1: that the fact that a number of unqualified people got

1731
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: into national leadership excuses what Joan did either. But I don't,

1732
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't. I just think if you're scamming the Reagans,

1733
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: like the Reagans deserve to be scammed, you know. And

1734
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,759
Speaker 1: when I added up, it's like she she's mostly culpable

1735
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: for like being a bad friend. Yeah, as opposed to

1736
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: she's a bad friend, and you're not really someone's friend

1737
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 1: if they're paying you to be their friend. But it's

1738
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: like compared to Info Wars, for instance, I mean, when

1739
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 1: you when you think about the statements she was actually

1740
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: making and the way that she was wielding the power

1741
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 1: that she had, she could have been so much worse.

1742
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 1: She could have been so much worse. She was saying

1743
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 1: what time to land the plane? She wasn't saying, like

1744
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 1: everybody who you think is like a child in a

1745
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: cage is an actor. That's true, and like that person

1746
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 1: is in the ear. But ive Donald Trump, and he

1747
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 1: believes that stuff even though he's making the policy which

1748
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,000
Speaker 1: is like more insane. Well, I will say, though, if

1749
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:27,440
Speaker 1: you start comparing people from anyone from the Reagan administration

1750
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,599
Speaker 1: to anyone from today's administration, all the people from back

1751
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 1: then are going to look better. We know, what did

1752
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 1: she do? But what did she do that was so bad? Bad?

1753
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,640
Speaker 1: Just because the gloves are off, they were doing the

1754
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: same shit. It's just Nancy was going to choose a

1755
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: bad policy to get behind. And I think that Joan

1756
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: was correct in saying that the war on drugs was

1757
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: a way to play the public and to create a

1758
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: cause and fabricate a solution that wouldn't be effective but

1759
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 1: would have the illusion of being this really incredible, like

1760
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,759
Speaker 1: we're all going to be so happy this was passed.

1761
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 1: But what if Nancy Reagan, what if she was like,

1762
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 1: all right, choose like a b C and everything was

1763
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,640
Speaker 1: even worse. But what if Nancy had just done a

1764
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 1: bunch of fashion magazine interviews and nobody she'd never gone on.

1765
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 1: Well that's stupid, though, why should she? She was the

1766
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: first lady? Because I think that what Joan was saying

1767
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: is that people need to take you seriously. You don't

1768
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: have the knowledge, You don't have the gravitas to be

1769
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: able to make people like you, because they're just gonna

1770
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: think you're and also because you're a bad person who

1771
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: has no substance and you're just like a homophobic, horrible socialite.

1772
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Isn't it bad to tell someone who has no substance

1773
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 1: and horrible opinions on things to make their opinions count

1774
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: by becoming ac she was already Yeah, but she just

1775
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about fashion. Well, that wouldn't have ever

1776
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 1: made her possul being first ladies to talk about fashion

1777
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: and also pretend to care about some pet issue. It's

1778
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: like being a socialite on a super scale. So it

1779
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,439
Speaker 1: makes sense that a socialite would have the best advice

1780
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 1: on how to be like a socialite. Yeah, well I

1781
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,559
Speaker 1: guess this. This, this, this is not something we're gonna

1782
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 1: settle to either of our anyone's mutual agreement. I think

1783
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 1: she took advantage of Nancy Reagan in a moment of

1784
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: weakness and light about having predicted her husband's assassination. Y'all

1785
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 1: are on a different side of that, and think that

1786
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: Nancy probably just called her up, called her up. I

1787
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 1: was gonna say. I think our side, our platform is

1788
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:33,680
Speaker 1: fuck Nancy Reagan. I don't disagree with fun Nancy Reagan.

1789
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 1: But I add John quickly to that. John gets as

1790
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: scot Free. We're pro Joneses. You the listeners at home,

1791
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:43,600
Speaker 1: will have to decide for yourselves who you think the

1792
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 1: bastards in this story were. But I think we can

1793
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 1: all agree there were a lot of bastards everyone's talked

1794
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: about today. And Donald Reagan, by the way, is also

1795
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: kind of a dick, but we'll get into that. Yeah,

1796
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: I think we should be the people whose names we

1797
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 1: don't know yet. Yeah, those are the real Yeah, we

1798
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 1: didn't even watch Ollie North should take a lot more,

1799
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And if we're gonna blame someone

1800
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,360
Speaker 1: for the Reagans, that's not the Reagans. It ain't the psychic.

1801
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: Not the psychic I mean, but she's not. She's not

1802
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 1: a psychica. She's astrology, a planetary scientist, maybe the stars.

1803
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: Maybe the stars were misaligned and that's why they were

1804
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 1: all such terrible people. Yeah, true, because she's definitely it's

1805
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 1: just the way she writes things. I'm not saying she's likable.

1806
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm just saying she's not as bad as the Rigans.

1807
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe I'm not saying she's as bad as

1808
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 1: the Reagans. I am saying she's history's greatest monster. Okay,

1809
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 1: this has been enlightening, and I'm glad y'all had a

1810
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: different opinion on all of this than me, because it's

1811
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: hard for me to have much perspective after three hundred

1812
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: pages of the Twelfth House and the Seventh by the

1813
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 1: way I should, I want to add one last thing.

1814
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 1: So the end of Joan Quigley's book is just a

1815
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,680
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff on how astrology works in politics, and

1816
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: so she talks about all the different houses, which I

1817
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:54,920
Speaker 1: don't understand what any of that means. But there's like

1818
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 1: the twelfth House in politics is apparently all the poor people,

1819
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: but also journalists and saboteurs and like poor people, the homeless,

1820
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 1: drug addicts and journalists and the same a lot. No,

1821
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: she's the right astrologer for the Reagans for sure. Anyway, Uh,

1822
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:19,200
Speaker 1: you guys want to plug your pluggables? Yeah, sure. Come

1823
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: listen to Night Call. It's on the Audio Boom network

1824
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 1: of podcasts. And if you have a question, a comment,

1825
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: an astrological prediction, you can give us a call at

1826
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 1: two four oh four six night You can also text

1827
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:32,479
Speaker 1: us at the same number, or you can email us

1828
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 1: at Night Call podcast at gmail dot com. Yeah, and

1829
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: we can do like some cross coverage. If you've got

1830
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 1: thoughts about the Reagans and astrology, you send them to

1831
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:41,880
Speaker 1: Night Call and we will talk about them there too.

1832
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so

1833
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 1: much for fun. Thank you guys for being on you

1834
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 1: listeners at home. If you have an opinion over whether

1835
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: or not Joan Quickly is history's greatest monster, or if

1836
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm being too hard on her, drop us a line

1837
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,680
Speaker 1: at at Bastard's pod on Twitter and either yell at

1838
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: me or agree with me, whichever is your preference. You

1839
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 1: can also find us on the internet at behind the

1840
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Bastards dot com. We'll have some pictures up there. Joan

1841
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 1: Quigley commissioned a drawing of like a presidential seal with

1842
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 1: astrological symbols on it. That's super kooky. We'll get a

1843
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: picture of that for you. So yeah, I'm Robert Evans.

1844
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,799
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at I write Okay,

1845
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,599
Speaker 1: please check us out. We're back every Tuesday. So next

1846
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,519
Speaker 1: Tuesday we will be talking about someone probably with millions

1847
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:24,679
Speaker 1: of deaths on their hands. Hey, when are you gonna

1848
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: get to some Freemasons? Yeah, they're all Freemasons. All right.

1849
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:32,839
Speaker 1: This has been behind the bastards. I have been Robert Evans,

1850
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:45,280
Speaker 1: and I love like forty percent of you.