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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always his

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Speaker 1: brother Chuck Bryant. Brother Chuck. How are you doing today,

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Speaker 1: josh Odie? I'm doing just fine. Do you know what

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Speaker 1: I was gonna leave with? I just had Josh Odi

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Speaker 1: ready at the ready. Okay, you'll understand everybody in the second, right, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: I know you know this, But let's go back to

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Speaker 1: the night of March. Do you know what happened in

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Speaker 1: Rancho Santa Fe, a suburb of a suburb of San

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Speaker 1: Diego that night? I do? Okay, Well, I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you anyway. Uh. Thirty nine people Well, beginning that night,

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Speaker 1: over three days, beginning that night, thirty nine people gave

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Speaker 1: up their lives. Uh. And they are. They were collectively

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Speaker 1: known as Heaven's Gate. They were the members of the

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Speaker 1: Heaven's Gate cult famously wore those black nikes um and

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Speaker 1: beginning on Marche, which was the spring solstice, the vernal

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Speaker 1: equinox um, a commet was coming by the hail bop comment,

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Speaker 1: And what the Heaven's Gate members believed was that UM

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Speaker 1: flying using the comment is cover, was a spaceship that

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Speaker 1: they could go rendezvous with the pilots and basically UM

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Speaker 1: be picked up as spirits and attached to the pilots

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Speaker 1: of this spaceship because the world was coming to an

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Speaker 1: end here and they needed to get out of here.

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Speaker 1: But they had to commit ritualistic suicide. So on the

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Speaker 1: first night, about a third of them took a combination

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Speaker 1: of apple sauce and UM pharmaceuticals and I think Jack

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Speaker 1: Daniels or something uh and died and for good measure

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Speaker 1: put bags over their heads uh. And then once they

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Speaker 1: were dead, the other members cleaned them up and so

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Speaker 1: on UM. And this happened for three nights in a row,

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Speaker 1: until thirty nine people were dead and found in this mansion.

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Speaker 1: UM two didn't didn't make it. They weren't there something,

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Speaker 1: and they went and got a hotel room and killed

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Speaker 1: themselves in the desert like a month later. UM. But

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Speaker 1: what's what's interesting about Heaven's Gate is that they all

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Speaker 1: of these were suicides. There was no murder. And you

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Speaker 1: go back and look at UM what are called like

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Speaker 1: their exit videos. There's about ten hours of tape of

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Speaker 1: the members talking and they seem very excited about what

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Speaker 1: they're going to do, seem vari at peace. It's disturbing

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Speaker 1: to watch now, but they seem very relaxed, very at peace,

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Speaker 1: and very much like they know what they're doing. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: So aside from even though these these were um, these

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Speaker 1: weren't forced, they were suicides, and because it ended in

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Speaker 1: a apocalyptic suit mass suicide pact, Heaven's Gate would be

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Speaker 1: what's called a destructive which we're Although it's titled How

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Speaker 1: Cults Work, this episode is actually about destructive cults are

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Speaker 1: the ones that are get all depressed. One reason why

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Speaker 1: we're gonna we need to make that differentiation is because

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, um, the in a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases the only difference between cult and a religion

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Speaker 1: is whether or not it's mainstream. Right, careful, but it's true. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a few differences. Mainstream is one. Uh, Usually a

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Speaker 1: mainstream religion will have a hierarchy, whereas a cult will

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Speaker 1: have the single leader in the hierarchy in theory keeps

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Speaker 1: one another in check. And uh, the cults usually demand

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Speaker 1: absolute um commitment, like you live there yeah, and whereas

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Speaker 1: a mainstream religion generally does not require that you can

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Speaker 1: have your own home. Okay, so we're not saying it's

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Speaker 1: the same thing as religion. No, But if you are

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Speaker 1: a sociologist a psychologist UM, and you've there's going to

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Speaker 1: be very little distinction between the two UM. So that's

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Speaker 1: not the case though with UM destructive or totalist cults,

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Speaker 1: they're very different, right they are. You You can make

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Speaker 1: the case that religion or a non destructive cult UM

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Speaker 1: helps its members get over their vulnerabilities, I think, is

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Speaker 1: how it's put in this article. Through spiritual guidance support,

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Speaker 1: it's a good place of growth, is what it's intended

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Speaker 1: to be. A destructive cult is basically UM run by

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Speaker 1: a person with the intent of absolute control over the

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Speaker 1: members in a complete surrender of their will. I have

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Speaker 1: a question, and that's this is a good time to

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Speaker 1: put it in there. I wonder sometimes because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about cult leaders specifically in a bit, but I

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Speaker 1: wonder if the cult leader and I think it it varies,

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Speaker 1: actually believes Like when I see Marshall apple White, I

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Speaker 1: think he really believed this stuff seemed to when I

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Speaker 1: see a Jim Jones, he seems like a huckster. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was on a lot of drugs, on drugs, uh

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Speaker 1: having sex with multiple women. Umm, Martial apple White was

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Speaker 1: not having sex with multiple women. He was a unique

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Speaker 1: and not into women. Um. But my point is, like

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Speaker 1: the cult leader, I guess vary. Sometimes they really actually

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Speaker 1: believe that. Sometimes they're you know, manipulators who are power

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Speaker 1: hungry and and maybe after money or what have you. Right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that there's probably a transition that any

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Speaker 1: cult leader would undergo as the power and loyalty grows.

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Speaker 1: And even if you are a huckster, you're eventually going

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Speaker 1: to start buying into your own hype just because it's

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Speaker 1: so appealing, you know. Good point. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that is a great point to to put in their chuck,

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Speaker 1: that there are cult leaders out there who believe in

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Speaker 1: what they're saying. Um. So we've we've said basically the

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Speaker 1: primary characteristic of a destructive cult is that there's uh

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Speaker 1: at solute control over the members, a surrender of will

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Speaker 1: um to the group and ultimately to the leader. Right,

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Speaker 1: who is this the leader? Is that time? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: no no, no no, no, no, no no, no leader. We

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Simpsons, whether movementarians. Yeah, remember the right episode

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Speaker 1: the flying bikes, the hover bikes with the comb in

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Speaker 1: the wax paper. So Simpsons fans, hold your emails. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we didn't mention it covered right, But um so let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about um. I guess this authoritarian leadership structure

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Speaker 1: you you might call it. What are the hallmarks of it? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's one of the hallmarks is like we said, it's

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Speaker 1: it's typically just one dude. Let me say dude, because

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Speaker 1: it's usually a man. Although there are some um instances

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Speaker 1: that's not sure. We'll get to those in a minute, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the problems because power, we've seen

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Speaker 1: it time and time again, can corrupt even the most

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Speaker 1: supurate heart, and a lot of these aren't pure at

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Speaker 1: heart to begin with. And then uh, another problem here

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Speaker 1: is that there they operate outside the mainstream. So in

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Speaker 1: the case of Jim Jones, which I know we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get to in detail, they were in Ghana, Guiana, Guiana.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, that's a different place, right, They're in Guiana,

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Speaker 1: So they were way outside the mainstream, so they didn't

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Speaker 1: have people checking up on them. And it's it's the

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Speaker 1: isolation factor. Is huge. Yes, if the religious group that

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Speaker 1: you subscribe to UM lives on a ranch together, it

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Speaker 1: may be a cult. Yeah we're in the woods or

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Speaker 1: in Guiana. Right. Um. There's some other I guess kind

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Speaker 1: of giveaways that become less and less apparent the more

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Speaker 1: immersed you become. UM. And that would be deception and recruiting,

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Speaker 1: right UM thought reformed techniques, which, although very controversial UM,

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Speaker 1: are believed to be real and can have an an

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Speaker 1: effect on a person's outlook. Yeah, all right, we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that as well, in much more detail. And we've

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Speaker 1: got into a big time in brainwashing, we did, and

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Speaker 1: and that's UM. A lot of those are very similar.

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Speaker 1: You brainwash me, I did. Remember you're no longer a hipster,

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Speaker 1: that's right, but I still have the goatee. Uh. Good

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Speaker 1: out outside is bad, whoever is on the inside is good.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge homework. Like a real us in them,

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Speaker 1: a clear divide is on us and very much, which

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Speaker 1: can lead to a lot of feelings of persecution, paranoia

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Speaker 1: and UM. Generally an idea that or that's I guess

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Speaker 1: generally supported by the idea that UM, since most destructive

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Speaker 1: cults are religious in nature, Uh, that the in group,

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Speaker 1: the cult is saved and everybody outside the bad people

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Speaker 1: are all damned to hell. So let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: the leader himself. The leader, Yeah, well, they're usually very charismatic,

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Speaker 1: very charming, can turn on the world with a smile,

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Speaker 1: or at least their cult with a smile. They which

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Speaker 1: gets people, you know, very much readily able to follow

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Speaker 1: them without question. Um. They're very devoted. They don't question

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Speaker 1: the leader. They don't question what the leader tells them

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Speaker 1: to do. They you know, this is once you're in,

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Speaker 1: not you know, initially there may be questions, but after

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Speaker 1: the thought reform takes place, well you're in. The reason

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Speaker 1: forethought reform is to get rid of those questions, right, yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They are typically either say their God and considered God

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Speaker 1: or the Messiah, or that they are the only path

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Speaker 1: to God. Their prophets. Essentially, they have some sort of

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Speaker 1: religious designation, right, singular religious designation that no one else

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Speaker 1: in the cult has but them, which means whether the leader.

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Speaker 1: And you can't really topple the leader unless you too

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Speaker 1: are prophet, which I imagine that's got to be a

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Speaker 1: surprising day for everybody in the Coultwan. You know, maybe

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Speaker 1: a number two or three in command goes, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I just found out that I am a prophet as well,

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Speaker 1: and the leaders like um trouble brewing. Yah. The other

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Speaker 1: important thing here too, I thought was interesting that typically

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Speaker 1: cult members are devoted to the leader and not the

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Speaker 1: even the leader's ideas. Yeah. That's a good point too, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jim Jones, stay worshiped Jim Jones, not his

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Speaker 1: Christian ideals. Because as pointed out Um, Jim Jones UH

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Speaker 1: and David Koresh, who was the leader of the Branch

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Speaker 1: division davidians Um both started out in in what we

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Speaker 1: would consider mainstream religious groups. Jim Jones was a pastor

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Speaker 1: Christian pastor. He was the Disciples of Christ was his

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Speaker 1: original Christian group, and David Koresh's was he was originally

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Speaker 1: in the Seventh day Adventist. Yeah. Um. And one of

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Speaker 1: the ways that cult leaders become cult leaders is that

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Speaker 1: they are often overly enthusiastic maybe in their mainstream religious groups.

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Speaker 1: They freak their mainstream religious groups out pretty much and

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Speaker 1: they're like, you need to get out here. But their

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Speaker 1: ideas or their charisma or whatever, there's something about them

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Speaker 1: that makes other members of the church go, I'm going

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Speaker 1: with this guy, splinter off, create your own cult. It's

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Speaker 1: no longer mainstream, so you're cold. And in the case

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Speaker 1: of Koresh, he was um showed some instability and some

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Speaker 1: of the things that he was influencing some of the

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Speaker 1: the youth in the church. They said, no, you don't

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Speaker 1: like what you're telling the kids, so you need to

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Speaker 1: get out of here. Yeah, and we don't like that

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Speaker 1: you're touching the kids, so you need to get out.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going out. I'm taking the kids with me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Apparently also um uh, not Jim Jones, but the prophet

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Speaker 1: Mo who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Apparently he and David Koresh.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading this. I only saw it in

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Speaker 1: one place, but I didn't get a chance to really

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Speaker 1: cry us reference it. Um that both of them had

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Speaker 1: their first sexual experiences with far, far older women, like

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Speaker 1: Koresh's um first encounter with a woman was with the

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Speaker 1: seventies six year old and I mean, you laugh, but

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, I think he's a teenager. But um,

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Speaker 1: what's strange is both of them went the opposite way

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Speaker 1: after that, Like Koresh's second wife was fourteen. Um, the

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Speaker 1: prophet Mo kidnapped Elizabeth Smart and I think she was

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Speaker 1: like fourteen as well, So, um, there's interesting. I think

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Speaker 1: that's something for deeper study, don't you think, Like if

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Speaker 1: you're sexual encounter, so the very old person become a

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Speaker 1: cult leader, that's probably a pretty good predictor you're gonna

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Speaker 1: take very young wives and the FBI is gonna come

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Speaker 1: set your compound on fire. At the very least, it

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Speaker 1: shows you might be unstable. Sure, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: they would just see that and say a variety of

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Speaker 1: a spice of life or I mean, surely you've seen

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Speaker 1: Harold and Maud so it can go really well. So

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Speaker 1: you're right, Josh. A lot of times occult leaders are

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Speaker 1: former religious mainstream religious leaders or members. Not always in

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Speaker 1: the case of like a Charlie Manson, right, who who

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Speaker 1: personifies the huckster you're talking about. Yeah, he wasn't a

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Speaker 1: religious dude at all. He was um, psychotic and emotionally

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Speaker 1: disturbed from the time that he was a young kid

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Speaker 1: and a thief and a vandal and eventually rapist and

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Speaker 1: pimp and fraud a pretty big jerk in general jerk.

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Speaker 1: So he was let out of prison. Um as everyone knows.

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Speaker 1: At one point in the late sixties, I went to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco. All the hippies were very susceptible to his charms,

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Speaker 1: his little short midget redneck charms. Right, because when you're

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Speaker 1: on acid, Charlie Manson makes a lot of sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, But you know, I never heard him talk

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Speaker 1: until later in life, and when I did, I went

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Speaker 1: I had no idea he was such a redneck. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heard his accent and I was like, you gotta

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Speaker 1: be kidding me. He this is the guy that got

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Speaker 1: people to murder all these faults and that that forced

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Speaker 1: like labored stare like, look at my eyes, and it's

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Speaker 1: just laughable. Yea, it is, Sorry, Charlie, but it worked

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Speaker 1: in his case, and the Manson family famously killed um

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Speaker 1: how many people, seven people, Roman Plantcy's wife, most of

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Speaker 1: them at the at Sharon Tate's house, Sharon Tate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't do it himself, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the traits of a good cult leaders. You

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Speaker 1: can get people to do things for you. Yeah. But um,

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Speaker 1: the the US prosecutors still, or the California prosecutors still

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Speaker 1: managed to get him put away for life, even though

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Speaker 1: he didn't kill anybody, just the ordering of these murders.

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Speaker 1: They got him pretty good. I think the state of

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Speaker 1: California was more than willing to keep Charlie Manson locked

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Speaker 1: up forever though. It's well, he's pretty notorious for in

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Speaker 1: his parole hearings just saying really crazy things still where

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Speaker 1: they're like, okay, yeah, you clearly don't have any interest.

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Speaker 1: I remember being a kid, like I never understood that

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Speaker 1: when I when I came to understand there was a

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Speaker 1: Charlie Manson, and like he did say the stuff and

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Speaker 1: at parole hearings like why would you do that? And

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Speaker 1: my dad told me, like, if he gets out of prisons,

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Speaker 1: he's dead. And now I don't think that that's necessarily true,

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Speaker 1: although he probably would still believe that. Um, but he's

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Speaker 1: probably so institutionalized he wouldn't know what to do because

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Speaker 1: he was in jail for years off and on, you know,

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Speaker 1: from his teenage years on. He has a cell phone.

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Speaker 1: They caught him on the cell phone recently in jail.

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Speaker 1: What are you calling me? Are you sure? I'm positive?

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Speaker 1: So Manson referred to himself as God and Satan both

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Speaker 1: well his followers did. Yeah, um, squeaky From. Yeah, apparently

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Speaker 1: after Charlie was locked up, Um, Squeaky From decided that

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Speaker 1: his plight was losing media attention, Charlie's plight, Um, and

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Speaker 1: so she uh tried to shoot Gerald Ford and it

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Speaker 1: definitely got attention. Again. I think that that, if anything,

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Speaker 1: if if the murders didn't cement the Manson family into

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Speaker 1: the American psyche forever, Squeaky From managed to finally put

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Speaker 1: the glue in the bone, as it were, with the

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Speaker 1: attempted presidential assassination. Yeah, and she also carved an X

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Speaker 1: in her forehead on the courthouse steps. And Manson still

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Speaker 1: has a swastia on his forehead. It's tough to get

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Speaker 1: rid of. Yeah, just ask the Inglories bastards. Right, so, Josh, Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about recruitment. Yeah, what kind of a person

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Speaker 1: would fall for this? Clearly, a raving lunatic is the

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Speaker 1: only person who could become a full occult member, right, wrong?

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Speaker 1: What and seen? We uh a lot a lot of

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Speaker 1: times you think of them as mentally ill, but they've

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Speaker 1: done studies and apparently there's only a slightly higher incidence

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Speaker 1: of mental instability and cult members then you and me, Well,

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Speaker 1: mental illness at least, yeah, and the than in the

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Speaker 1: regular population. What they have found that most people in

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Speaker 1: the normal population don't have that cult members usually have

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Speaker 1: in common is that when they were recruited, it was

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Speaker 1: during a particularly stressful period in their life. You know,

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Speaker 1: that scale of stressful life events like death of a spouse, divorce, um,

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Speaker 1: death of a child, adolescence. Yeah, that's that's up there,

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Speaker 1: really far Um, any of those make you, while you're

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Speaker 1: going through them, better cult recruit than you would normally be.

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Speaker 1: You've been stressed out lately. Oh I just joined up?

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Speaker 1: Are you? Are you right for the picking my robes

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Speaker 1: in my bank? That's not true because you're not any

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Speaker 1: of these other things like gullible. You don't think I am,

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Speaker 1: of course not. Gullibility is a trait, you know. You

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Speaker 1: gotta believe what's going on here pretty easily. Um. Usually

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Speaker 1: you're unassertive. Uh, you're dissolute Asian with what's going on

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Speaker 1: around you, and you're looking for some answers, right, you're

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Speaker 1: a naive, that's and you're looking for some spiritual meaning

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Speaker 1: in your life. And I'm utterly and totally dependent you are. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's on the list at least UM. And

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Speaker 1: there are actually places where people who fit these bills

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Speaker 1: are going through a period in time in their life

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Speaker 1: that's rough tend to hang out more than say the

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Speaker 1: average bar or whatever. That would be a self help group,

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Speaker 1: grief support group, UM, basically any group where people sit

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Speaker 1: around in a circle and there's crying. That's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good place you you want to be on the lookout

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Speaker 1: for a cult recruiter there. Uh. And one of the

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Speaker 1: you're you're probably not going to exit the conference room

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Speaker 1: in the local community center after your grief support group

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Speaker 1: and you know, see some guy in a road handing

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Speaker 1: you a flower. It would be it will be much

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Speaker 1: less obvious than that. It'll probably be someone who's a

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Speaker 1: member of the group. Yeah, that's one of the ways.

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Speaker 1: If you say I would never fall for that, think

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Speaker 1: about if someone you knew personally UM invited you to

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Speaker 1: a meeting where you were going to talk about better

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Speaker 1: ways to help the community raise some money for a

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Speaker 1: New Boys club, Right, and you happen to be at

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Speaker 1: church and you're you know, one of the deacons vouched

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Speaker 1: for the person who was talking. You wouldn't even question them, right,

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Speaker 1: That's how it happened. Sometimes or if you were at

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Speaker 1: a group support group and somebody said, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is peanuts compared to this other group support group.

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Speaker 1: This this group of people have um all been through

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Speaker 1: this tragedy and they are um really great at getting

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Speaker 1: people past the stages of grief. So you should come

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Speaker 1: and hang out. You should try this other one too. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of deception associated with cult recruitment. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's pretty much the hallmark of it, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Initially they don't tell you what in the world you're

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Speaker 1: in for because you probably wouldn't go, probably though, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They isolate you from the get go with um their

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Speaker 1: meetings usually the whole meetings at times where you may

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Speaker 1: normally be with your family dinner, dinner time. They might

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Speaker 1: hold it at a place like a retreat, get you

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Speaker 1: away for the weekend, so you're hearing nothing but the

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Speaker 1: cults ideas and views for a weekend, which makes it

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Speaker 1: seem during that forty eight hours a lot less weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you've got no feedback, You've got no feedback from

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Speaker 1: the real world. Yes, because once you go back out

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Speaker 1: in there and you haven't fully joined up, so you're

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Speaker 1: still going to and from your house to these meetings,

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Speaker 1: which are remember grief support meetings that have a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with you know, religion that you haven't noticed before.

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Speaker 1: But it's cool. Um, you're asked when you go back

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Speaker 1: home not to talk about the group until you understand

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Speaker 1: it more like you know, they don't. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to hear anyone poop doing it just yet because you

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Speaker 1: won't get it. Yeah, they won't get it, and so

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Speaker 1: you don't. And like you said, your feedback structure is narrowed,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have anything but self doubt. Your doubts

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Speaker 1: that would normally be of the group are now doubts

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Speaker 1: about yourself. Because why why why do you always have

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Speaker 1: so such a tendency to just criticize everything. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at all these people, they're all happy and smiling,

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Speaker 1: and they seem Yeah, why can't you just get on board?

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Speaker 1: And then you're suddenly a lot more susceptible to joining up. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and at that point that's when they can hit you

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Speaker 1: with the proper mind control techniques brainwashing one O one.

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Speaker 1: Should we go over it? Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty

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Speaker 1: of people who are hearing this that didn't listen to brainwashing.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, if you have it, and you

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Speaker 1: should go back and listen to it twice three times

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Speaker 1: in a place in the woods where we'll meet you.

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Speaker 1: It's if you play it backwards, the location will be repealed.

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Speaker 1: We're laughing. Nothing about this is funny except the things

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Speaker 1: that we're saying. Um, thought reform, brainwashing, coercive persuasion is

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Speaker 1: this is the key here. It is the systematic breakdown

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Speaker 1: of your sense of self. And it's similar to what

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Speaker 1: you do in uh, let's say Guantanamo Bay, maybe when

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Speaker 1: you're interrogating a prisoner. Sure, similar techniques. You could also

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Speaker 1: make a pretty strong case that it's similar to what

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Speaker 1: happens to here in boot camp. And the article goes

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Speaker 1: out of its way to defend boot camp by saying

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Speaker 1: there's three huge differences. One, the military is accountable for

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Speaker 1: its actions. Destructive cults tend not to be until, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the government's at your door. Um. Recruits who

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Speaker 1: join up are making an informed decision. They know that

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Speaker 1: they're going to be going in to be broken down

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Speaker 1: and built up as a soldier. Yeah, I'm gonna look

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Speaker 1: in dress like the other people and eat the same

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Speaker 1: meals and all that kind of thing, and then um,

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Speaker 1: there's a set period of time. Yeah, it's not for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life. Until you eat that apple sauce.

385
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Speaker 1: It's fill the g I bill and you're done. So Chuck,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the techniques. Well, they're gonna deceive you,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna trick you. Uh, they're gonna hide all signs

388
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Speaker 1: of real paranoid They're gonna hide all signs of anything

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Speaker 1: illegal or immoral at first. So you're buying into it,

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Speaker 1: you know, all you're also not going to get the

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Speaker 1: full picture of what the cults about. Like we said

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Speaker 1: that grief support group is not really what it is.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they might even uh, you know, alter your consciousness

394
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Speaker 1: a bit with like meditation or drugs or chanting. That

395
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Speaker 1: kind of thing make you vulnerable. We already talked about isolation.

396
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Speaker 1: That's one of the biggest parts of it. And it

397
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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have to be physical isolation, although it can be.

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Speaker 1: Patty Hurst famously, when she was kidnapped by the Symbionese

399
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Speaker 1: Liberal Liberation Army UM, she was apparently put into a

400
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Speaker 1: closet for like weeks, and she was berated and yelled

401
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: at and like her, her families capitalist trappings were um criticized,

402
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Speaker 1: and she came out like, let's go rob a bank. Well,

403
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Speaker 1: I wondered, I bet the late sixties and seventies people

404
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Speaker 1: we're probably I mean that's when Jonestown, Yeah, the s. L. A.

405
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Speaker 1: Manson family, the Moonies were huge then. They're still around,

406
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Speaker 1: but there they were really big in the seventies. Um,

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Speaker 1: it makes you wonder, I don't. I don't think we

408
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Speaker 1: have any idea yet about what part of that period

409
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Speaker 1: of history made it so readily available for cults to

410
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Speaker 1: pop up, because it happened in the nineteenth century too.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of cults, um that came about

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Speaker 1: for some reasons out of the blue. I wonder what

413
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Speaker 1: it was. But the Internet helps nowadays just access to information, right,

414
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Speaker 1: But I can think about it, like, you don't think

415
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Speaker 1: of cults being like pervasive these days like they were

416
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Speaker 1: in the seventies. Dud, Yeah, no, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, like, what was it about the late

418
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Speaker 1: sixties and the throughout the seventies that made them so now?

419
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Speaker 1: I meant the lack of internet back then, to the

420
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Speaker 1: lack of information, there were way more in the dark

421
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Speaker 1: about things and and of course, in Manson's case, he

422
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: had a bunch of you know, acid head hippies that like, yeah, man,

423
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. You're into the Beatles, pot pac Man

424
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: feverhead and yeah that's true. So isolation, like we said,

425
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: is huge. It's one of the biggest hallmarks of thought

426
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: reform because when you don't have anyone around you except

427
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: for people that are doing the same thing you're doing,

428
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: it seems completely normal. Um. There's also a complete and

429
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: utter dependency that's created in the member, right, Yeah, that's

430
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: the big part. Two. Um, if you can basically, if

431
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: you can get somebody inspired two idolize the leader, then

432
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: the leader's message that hey, you belong to this group

433
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: and and here's what we do is paramount, right. Yeah.

434
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: It creates a sense of this pendency, especially when the

435
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: leader says, by the way, this group is your family. Now,

436
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: don't talk to anybody else. You don't need to interact

437
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: with the outside world. We grow our own food here,

438
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: or we do our own things, we educate our own children. Um.

439
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: They they cult becomes your life, and everybody needs a life.

440
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: And especially if you're already predisposed to a real sense

441
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: of belonging or in need for a sense of belonging.

442
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: You're gonna buy into this a lot more easily, and

443
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: this dependency will be induced even more readily. Yeah. Well,

444
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: and what they do is they hit you with the

445
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: one two punch. They show you lots of love, but

446
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: they also offer lots of guilt and shame. If you

447
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: are dancing around talking to your family or things like that,

448
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: they shame you. They guilt you. And then when you say,

449
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: do you know what you're right? Uh, it's about the leader,

450
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: then they reap the love back onto your head and

451
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: you know you're like, wow, these people, this is where

452
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: it's at. They really really care about me. Right, Because again,

453
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: if you have a need to belong and all of

454
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: a sudden, like the members of the group are turning

455
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: their back on you're not really talking to you're just

456
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: kind of treating you coolly. That's going to have an

457
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: enormous impact on your psyche. And you're going to go

458
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: ahead and abandon any doubts or whatever it was that

459
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: made them turn their backs on you so you can

460
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: get their approval again and be loved. Yeah, you're striving

461
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: for acceptance. Basically, that's pretty deep. Dependence huge. The other

462
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: thing is that the time clock is very controlled. It's

463
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: not like, oh, the branch Davidians just live in this

464
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,239
Speaker 1: compound and you just wake up every day and kind

465
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: of do what you want. It's breakfast, is it from

466
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: eight to eight thirty? Bible study is from nine thirty.

467
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: You have free time for thirty minutes, then we have lunch.

468
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: Then you know, every minute is accounted for, very very structured.

469
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: Even during free time you're still like talking about the

470
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: leader's teachings something like that. And it's not like did

471
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: you watch American Idol last night? Right? The meals are

472
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: all you know? Ready, you don't have a lot of

473
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: people disappeals to a lot of people because it's the

474
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: decision making is taken away from you and you're all

475
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden leading a very peaceful lifestyle. I don't

476
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: have to think about anything. It takes the guesswork out

477
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: of living. Yeah, a lot of people are into that.

478
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: Some are yeah, um, and they make really good cult members.

479
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: It turns out, I guess they're actually at the very

480
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: least the least damaged of the cult members that are

481
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: um damaged by cults. Right right, Um, Chuck, there's also

482
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: a sense of dread. Right. Yeah. One more thing I

483
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: want to mention though, and this is interesting to me,

484
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: is that if you have a talent, a special talent

485
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: that you're good at, they're gonna devalue that and strip

486
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: it away. They're gonna take your guitar at the door.

487
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: And basically what made you special before the outside world

488
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: is no longer applicable because you're you're you live for

489
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: the leader. That there's something unusual about Heaven's Gate in

490
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: the dependency part where all members dressed exactly like gender

491
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: was removed, like everyone was UM supposed to be basically

492
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: a sexual and genderless UM. There were of course the

493
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: famous like black nikes that everybody wore, but they very

494
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: much interacted with the outside world. They had that higher

495
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: source web service UM, and they dealt with clients, and

496
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, apparently their clients were like these were straight shooters.

497
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: They were weird, obviously, but they were not like bad people.

498
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure Apple White and a business meeting seems like

499
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: a real affable guide to work, right, He's very pleasant,

500
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: but you look at those eyes, man. So there was

501
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: the level of control where like if you had a

502
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: meeting with the higher source people. They were all dressed

503
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: exactly alike and you couldn't really tell who is the

504
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: dude and who is the chick, right and um, but

505
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: at the same time you were in a meeting with

506
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 1: the higher source people. That's very daring of of a

507
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: leader to allow that level of access to the outside world,

508
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: or at the very least, that's a lot of trust

509
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: to show in your followers. It's pretty unusual. Yeah, alright,

510
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: So dread is where I interrupted you, I think, Um,

511
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: so I mean about dread well, Dread is a very

512
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: very unusual sensation, and that you can experience dread on

513
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: some sort of background level at all times. You can

514
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: care even when you're happy, you can still have a

515
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: sense of dread because dread basically is the idea that

516
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: you have no idea what's coming around the corner, and

517
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: it's really possible that it's going to be bad. As

518
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's likely that what happens to

519
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: you sooner than later, it's going to be very bad, right, right,

520
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: And is is the idea that the sense of dread

521
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: is in the outside world, and that's why you don't

522
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: want to go out there. Yes, Um, Either that or

523
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: there's also a constant dread or anxiety that you're going

524
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: to offend the leader, upset the group, and you're constantly

525
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: striving to maintain great good relations with your with the group,

526
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: in yourself and among the group. Um. But yeah, a

527
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: sense of dread is just it's very unusual like it.

528
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: It can haunt you. And that is apparently one of

529
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: the hallmarks of a I don't know if it's uh

530
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: purposefully instilled, but apparently it's at the very least a

531
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: huge byproduct among most people, especially and you talked about

532
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: ones who are just fine living the cult life. They

533
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly understand this. But if you're if you intercult

534
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: in a in a stressful period in your life, and

535
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: you eventually come out of that stressful period, but now

536
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: you're in the cult, your former personality and your new

537
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: personality are going to conflict. That creates a sense of dread.

538
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: And that's why destructive cults can be so harmful to people,

539
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: not not just mentally, but physically as well, because you're

540
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: not supposed to walk around stressed out all the time.

541
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: It's bad for you to the old U. That's the

542
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: old U in the outside world, but you're not supposed

543
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: to be thinking about the old you, and you, by God,

544
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: you better not talk about the old Yu or wonder

545
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: what's going on in the outside world. So you're constantly

546
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: pressing down natural thoughts in order to conform to the group,

547
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: and you're just you're there's just psychological havoc being wreaked

548
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: on you constantly. You don't know which way is up.

549
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: Confusion creates paralyzation a lot of times for these people

550
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: because some of them, it said later in the article

551
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: that I said, some people work for years to get

552
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: out of a cult, but they're just paralyzed with fear, uncertainty, confusion, dread,

553
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: and I think also probably um, the cult members already

554
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: were predisposed of this kind of personality, like don't like

555
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: to make choices, like even small ones. It's not very confident,

556
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But I would imagine like those

557
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: problems are just exacerbated even further in a cult. I

558
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: don't think so. So, Josh, let's say you're in a cult. Uh,

559
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: not all cults are the same, but there are a

560
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: few commonalities for sure. Um, you talk to people that

561
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: you know. There's always interviews with people that get out

562
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: of cults, because you get a lot of insight there obviously,

563
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: and plus they're just sexy press. It's very sexy press. Uh.

564
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: They usually talk about anxiety, fear. Um did I not

565
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: say that, being cut off from their family and friends,

566
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: and basically a ceasing of psychological growth. Yeah, no questioning,

567
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: no no thinking on your own at all. And Uh,

568
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: they don't realize this, of course until they get out.

569
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: But it's well, it's not too late because they're out,

570
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: but it's too late for Heaven's Skate. Although I made

571
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: the point before when we talked about Heaven's Kate. They're

572
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: the only ones who know whether or not managed to

573
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: escape these vests. They may be partying on the other

574
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: side of the Hilbop. You never know. Uh, let's talk

575
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: about money. We we mentioned that Heaven's Gate were at

576
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: a successful web design business. Uh, some of them because

577
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: they need money. You can't operate I mean it's sort

578
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: of like a business. You can't operate a cult without

579
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: dough or t Uh. Some of them are fraudulent tax evaders,

580
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And I think they were just cheap

581
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: and hippies and things and and but for the most part,

582
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: when you enter cult, you're basically surrendering your finances. And

583
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: if you're a wealthy person, you're a very desirable cult member. Yeah.

584
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to donate a large sum or all

585
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: of it and you don't need it anyways, Just go

586
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: ahead and sell your house and come live with us.

587
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: But earthly desires, you can lead those behind, exactly. So

588
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: that's to me, though, We'll take care of it, but exactly,

589
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm the signatory on your account. Now. Um, I think, uh,

590
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: that's probably the most common way that cults finance themselves

591
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: is through the members, right. Yeah, So let's say the

592
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: stress has gotten to you're like, you know, I kind

593
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: of got over adolescence. I'm fifty four now and I

594
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: just don't feel right. I haven't felt right for thirty

595
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: two years. Um, I think I'm gonna leave this cult.

596
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: There's a door, buddy, Okay. So is it that easy?

597
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: Because as you saw in the movie ben Terian episode

598
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: of the Simpsons, there was that whole like doctor who

599
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: Bubble mole Man was like, you know, setting the dogs

600
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: loose on Mars. It was just it was very dangerous,

601
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: like anybody can leave at any time, but you really can't.

602
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: So can you? Well, you can sometimes sometimes there are

603
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: no locked doors and barbed wire, and they will just

604
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: shame you and say, you know what, if you walk

605
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: out that door, you're never coming back in. You're cut

606
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: off from from your family, your new family, so they

607
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: will shame you into staying longer. But the doors open.

608
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: In the case of the Davidians, and I had never

609
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: heard of them, they proceeded the branch Davidians evidently, and

610
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: they had a leader that said the end of the

611
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: world is coming on this date. And that date came

612
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: and went, and a few people were like, I think

613
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. They said no, no, no, it's

614
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: a new date. And then that date came and went,

615
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: and then more people were like, what kind of stinks

616
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: that dude die? I think? And his wife took over

617
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: and said, I have a new date. That date came

618
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: and went, and by that time there were just a

619
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: handful people and they're like, we're out of here. Yeah,

620
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: whatever knows about it. So you can leave in the

621
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: case of the Davidians. Um. But sometimes there are locked

622
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: doors and they don't let you out. Sometimes they are

623
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: also bullets too. In the case of Jonestown in Guiana,

624
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: a fascinating part of that story that a lot of

625
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: people don't know about. Yeah, um shootout. What was his name,

626
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: Congressman Leo Ryan. I think he came and led a

627
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: delegation to Jonestown to find out what was going on,

628
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: because some of his constituents were like, uh, our family

629
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: just moved to Guiana with the People's Temple and a

630
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: guy named Jim Jones, We're kind of concerned. So he

631
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: went to Guiana and apparently met with the the People's

632
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: Temple members and sixteen of them were like, I'm coming

633
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 1: back to California with you, and the some other members

634
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: of People's Temple followed them to the airport and opened

635
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: fire on them and wounded eleven and killed Congressman Ryan,

636
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: killed three reporters, one member, and Congressman Ryan. I thought

637
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: it was just Congressman Ryan. Really yeah, I killed five

638
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: people total. And that's pretty much what triggered. Jim Jones

639
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: was like, it's it's hitting the fan. Yeah, it's time

640
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: for let's get the flavor aid ready, Yes, And I'm

641
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: glad you said that we got killed in the brainwashing

642
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: we did. I will never ever forget it. Um kool aid.

643
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: It was not what they drank apparently flavor Aid is

644
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: a British knockoff and kool Aid, and they drank grape

645
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: flavor Aid and filled it with valium um finn again

646
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: and cyanide, and that did the trick. Yeah, you know,

647
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell the audience here what I told everybody. The

648
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: emailed and said it's flavor aid. It's like, you know what, dude,

649
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what it really was. The Rusian is

650
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: don't drink the kool Aid, and that's just it's revisionist history.

651
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: But no one says don't drink the flavor Aid. Do

652
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: you want the Brits to get all the all the

653
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: attention say don't drink the flavor aid sometime in public

654
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: and to see what someone says, do you mean kool aid?

655
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: Tell them that they're the high man on the totem pole.

656
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: A boy, you just told them, Chuck, we're growing bitter

657
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: in our old age. So uh, all right, let's say

658
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: it's not as easy to leave as just getting up

659
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: and walking out. I would say it's probably somewhere between

660
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: jonestown and um just getting up and walking out. In

661
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: certain cases, there's something called d programming that you can

662
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: pay a lot of money to a service to go

663
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: in and kidnap your son or daughter. What you were

664
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,479
Speaker 1: doing is wrong, the love your family. In the middle

665
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: of the night, they will drag them out of this,

666
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: uh wherever they are compound, Like it's a kidnapping like kidnap,

667
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: and there's been lawsuits because wonders it doesn't happen a

668
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: whole lot anymore. It's like a repo man but for people. Yeah,

669
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: they're repelling your your son or daughter. Right, it's not

670
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: always a son or daughter. I guess it could be

671
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: a friend or relative otherwise, you know, not not a kid.

672
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: But you typically think of like rich dad is sending

673
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: in someone to kidnap his little teenaged daughter. So, uh,

674
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: they will do that. They will drag them out, and

675
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: then they will begin a process of de programming, basically

676
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: by using ethical psychological techniques to combat the unethical ones

677
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: that were used. Well, what they what they do often

678
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: is give the the deep program e a crash course

679
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: in thought reform. Yeah, like this is what's happened to you, right,

680
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: and or this is how cults brainwatch people. Does any

681
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: of this sound familiar? Do you remember this like years

682
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: ago when you first went in and that's supposed to

683
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: kind of start to unlock this um, this desire to

684
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: not think any longer, and then that's followed by a

685
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: critical thing. King questions, right, yeah, you want it to do.

686
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: You want to encourage them to be independent with their

687
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: thinking and praise them a lot when they start having

688
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: their own original thoughts because they haven't had them for

689
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: so long, and then maybe even dance out the Little

690
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: Teddy Bear or from their bedroom, say look at this.

691
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: You remember a little bun Bun that you grew up

692
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: with and in Sheboygan, wouldn't you like to go back

693
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: with bun Bun? So yeah, they'll parade out of some

694
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: things from your past. Maybe that might trigger thoughts of

695
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: your former life that you might have loved even at

696
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: one point, and then all of a sudden you're like,

697
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: bing bang boom, I'm not a cult member anymore. Well,

698
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: that's deep programming. That's the hardcore version. Well yeah, and

699
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: at the end of it you're like, Okay, I'm good.

700
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: But there's also exit counseling, which is a little more common.

701
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: It's pretty much deep programming without the kidnapping. It's I

702
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: would imagine it's much more common these days, but it's

703
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: gotta be way harder because you have to make contact

704
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: with the person and if they're isolated, then then to

705
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: convince them to come out, and you, I would imagine,

706
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: have very brief periods of time where you have the

707
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to them alone and have even a

708
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: chance to to get them to come out on their own.

709
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: Then you kidnap, Well, you made a joke a second ago,

710
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: Josh when you said bing bang boom, they're out. We're

711
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: all good. Yeah, that's not the case. It's just like

712
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: any traumatic experience. Uh. Many times they will suffer psychologically

713
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: for years with depression, anxiety, paranoia, guilt rage. One psychological psychologicist,

714
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: it's a new line psychologist, said that he calls it

715
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: floating when you get out. Yeah, kind of alternating between

716
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: the former mind and the current mind. And it's very

717
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: in certain times, sad, very sad. It said. I imagine

718
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: spending ten years in a cult and then ultimately coming

719
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: to feel like you just wasted and lost years of

720
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: your life because if that, um, what was the psychological

721
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: where you just stop growing psychologically like that's that means

722
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: that you just spent ten years like not doing anything

723
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: and wasted years that's terrible it is. And then all

724
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: the years after who who, however long it takes afterwards,

725
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: if ever, if ever. Um, So as you can see,

726
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: cults are frequently destructive, I I want to say, and

727
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll agree with me. Not all cults are destructive.

728
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: You said before, Like, even in a destructive cult, some

729
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: people are like, this is exactly what I need. Tell

730
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: me what shoes to wear, tell me exactly how much

731
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: gruel to eat every days? Exactly? Um, I want to

732
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: go pick some Lima beans, right. But um, for the

733
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: most part, you, I guess you can understand why a

734
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: cult destructive cauld is called destructive cult. Now even if

735
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: they don't end in the mass suicide of nine members.

736
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: You know, Um, you want to talk about some notable

737
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: cult incidents. So we hit Heaven's Gate. We fit well.

738
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: The Branch Davidians, as most people know, ended in a

739
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: hail of gunfire and fire fire. They remember the image

740
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: of that tank to shooting flames out of it. Yeah, man,

741
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: we should do a podcast sometime. Ruby Ridge and the

742
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: Branch Davidians, you got it, two very dark spots of

743
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: the Clinton administration, And there was a common thread. An

744
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: FBI guy was involved in both of them that apparently

745
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: was a little trigger happy. Really yeah, I saw a

746
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: great documentary on it. Well, let's do it all right,

747
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: let's do it right now. Okay, Hey, did I mention

748
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: you the guy the Russian psycho ecopsychologist who was called

749
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: out to Waco because he had some um sound recording.

750
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: I told you about him, right, And that was supposed

751
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: to drive them out. Yeah, but if it went wrong,

752
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: they the FBI asked what would happen if the if

753
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: it went wrong, he said, they'll end up slitting each

754
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: other's throats. He was at Waco too. Did they do it?

755
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: They used it? No once. He told him that go

756
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: back to Russia. Yeah. Yeah. What else we talked about

757
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: s l A Manson family. Did we leave anything back?

758
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: Big out? We did? Man. We didn't talk about the

759
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: Order of the Solar Temple. I don't know much about them.

760
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: School me the Order of the Solar Temple. You've heard

761
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 1: the Knights Templar, so they were like a modern sect

762
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: based on them. In Switzerland and in Canada and UM.

763
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: I think fifty three members between the two countries were

764
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: found dead. UM set on fire like six hundred and

765
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: eighty years to the day after the last templar was

766
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: burned at the steak Um was the sun that the

767
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: sun set him on fire? It wasn't. They thought it

768
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: was a mass suicide. But when autopsies were done, they

769
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: found out that some of the people had like up

770
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: to eight bullet holes in their head, Some died from suffocation,

771
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: some died from overdose on narcotics, So as a murder suicide.

772
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: Some were suicides. But murder suicide burning, that's a big tragedy. Um.

773
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: There's also uh, the Ralians have you heard of them?

774
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: They are still around their UFO coult their doomsday cult.

775
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: But they're not UM destructive, like they're never going to

776
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: kill themselves. It's just not in their doctrine. But they

777
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 1: follow a well, they follow a UM leader named Rail

778
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: who is actually a French race car driver, and almost

779
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: all of them Ralians are like beautiful Frenchies, French and

780
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: French Canadian people. They have an outpost pretty close by

781
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 1: in Alabama. They have an amusement parker a theme park,

782
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: a UFO theme park, and what their whole thing is,

783
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: we're there. The day is coming very soon where we

784
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: are going to be visited by these other life forms

785
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: who are benevolent UM, and we need to build an

786
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: international space station to greet them. It has to have

787
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: a UM like a dining table this long they have

788
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: like specs like the indoor swimming pool has to be

789
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: this big up in space. Right, And they're having a

790
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: lot of trouble getting UM funding for this. You can imagine.

791
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: But they're kind of like a good time cult, not cult,

792
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: attractive French people and they made headlines. You've heard of

793
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: them for this. They made headlines years ago because um

794
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: they claimed to be the first to clone a human

795
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: baby for a Kentucky senator. Do you remember that? And

796
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: it turned out it was a fraud really but no,

797
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: I mean remember everybody's like, holy cow. They the language

798
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: they used in the press release made people think like,

799
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: oh wow, this is really something. But well, Josh, let's

800
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: just finished. Was saying that. We've said he a lot.

801
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: In regards to cult leaders, most of them have been men,

802
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: but oddly enough, many many years ago there were some

803
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: female cult leaders. I heard. Joanna Southcott was nineteenth century

804
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: British Christian sect. The south Candians were who followed her,

805
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: and she had a vision that she was going to

806
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: give birth to a Messiah. She died in eighteen fourteen

807
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: and they waited for days by her dead body for

808
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,479
Speaker 1: her to give birth. Finally she started stinking and they said,

809
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: let's cut her open, see what's in there. There was

810
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: nothing in there, so they said, so the kid must

811
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: have been born in heaven spiritually. And some people believe

812
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: that Shiloh, who was to be this child, is actually

813
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: Prince William. Really I always expect that there's a little

814
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: something extra to him. There was someone named Annelie from Manchester.

815
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: She was a female cult leader. She was a Quaker

816
00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: who rejected sex and started the Shakers, not the furniture movement,

817
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: but some people don't say they were a cult, but no,

818
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: the Shakers are responsible for the furniture as well. Okay, yeah,

819
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: well they did a heck of a job then, yeah,

820
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: I love Shaker stuff. The Shakers, they were an offshoot

821
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: of Quakers. Their big problem is, and it's it's mentioned

822
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: here that, um, they looked down on sex, like it's

823
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: pretty much prohibited. Ye how do you keep a cult going,

824
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: or any group going if you're not repopulated. So they're

825
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: the Shakers are on very shaky ground as it were,

826
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: as far as membership goes because they can't. Yeah, they

827
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: don't have to recruit outside member. There's very very few

828
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 1: of them now. And then Margaret Peter was in Germany

829
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty three and her cult was sort of

830
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: just her extended family, but they were all kind of nuts,

831
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: and she was convinced the devil lived in her loft

832
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: and the devil needed a sacrifice. One of her sisters

833
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: immediately hit herself on the head with a mallet and

834
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: then the rest of the family beat her to death.

835
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: The devil was still there, so Margaret said, hey, why

836
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: don't you crucify me and I'll be resurrected. So they

837
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: said sure, Well, they crucified her, beat her to death,

838
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: and she was not resurrected. In three days, Josh and

839
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: the police came and arrested them. All that's exactly right,

840
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: and I think that was the end of that cult. Ladies,

841
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: we always like to give you your due. Yeah, that

842
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: was Chuck. By the way, Chuck was like, what about

843
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: female cult members and did some research, So way to go,

844
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: chuckers Um. There are some excellent stuff in the at

845
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: the end of the article, some actually great information in

846
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: places you can go if you're if you have been

847
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: an occult, you are an occult, or you have loved

848
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: ones in a cult, and you should go visit some

849
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: of those sites. One is called Refocus, and I won't

850
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: read them all, but there there's some places you can

851
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: go to get help. Kidnaped that kid uh. If you

852
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: want to learn more about cults, um, you can type

853
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: that in. There's a very comprehensive article on the site.

854
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: Just type in se U l t S in the

855
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: handy search bar. How stuff works dot tom. And since

856
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: I said that, it means it's time for what listener mail?

857
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: Right as always as ever? Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa what?

858
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: Quick announcement. Okay, we are coming to south By Southwest, Josh,

859
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: I know, and uh yeah, in the fourth largest state

860
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: of the Union. That's right, Austin, Texas. That's not right,

861
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: but we're we're gonna do a live podcast and to attend,

862
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: you need an interactive badge. It's gonna be the DRISTC

863
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Call Hotel at eleven am on Monday, March fourteen. Yeah,

864
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: and if you don't know how to spell drist call

865
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: d r I s k I l L. Yeah, it

866
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: looks better with an E, but it's like Old West

867
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: spelling of dristical. So we encourage you, if you have

868
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: a badge, to come on down and see us, and

869
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: they'll be a great podcast or at least a mediocre podcast, right,

870
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: followed by some Q and A. And really, you're not

871
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: gonna be out any money. You might be out an

872
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: hour of your life. That's about it. Yeah, yeah, And

873
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: there may be sandwiches we're not gonna be providing, but

874
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: there may be somebody with an extra sandwich there, so

875
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: that alone should get you down there. If you're at

876
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: south By Southwest, come check us out right, Okay, Okay,

877
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: back to it. This is from Tim. Tim has a

878
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: neat little thing that is not the cult as far

879
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 1: as I know. Um My, guys, I'm obsessed with making

880
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: things and giving them to people. I draw daily, though

881
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: I think making art is kind of pointless in a

882
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: day and age when people are hungry and living on

883
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: the streets. Feeding people is more important than making paintings,

884
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: amongst many other things. But I still find myself wanting

885
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: to draw, so I'm constantly trying to make excuses for

886
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: why it is socially acceptable to make art instead of

887
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: helping people but that is another tale. I decided to

888
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: start a little project in which I would encourage people

889
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: to give their sketch books away to other people who

890
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: they don't know, with the incentive being that I would

891
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: make them a drawing and send it to them. Unfortunately,

892
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: despite making flyers and internet distribution, my heart got crushed

893
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: when not a single person responded. He didn't get need

894
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: a feedback on this, so we're gonna help him out.

895
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: I want to create a different kind of currency, but

896
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 1: it seems like no one cares. Everyone just wants money

897
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: and it really stinks. So he started this thing, Tim did.

898
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: It's uh www dot send me anything dot WordPress dot com.

899
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: And I think the deal is if you say I

900
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: am an artist and I will give away my sketch

901
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: book to a stranger, then Tim will send you an

902
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: original drawing that's very awesome, all for free. So he's

903
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: doing a kind of a cool thing here. And he

904
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: says the pen is mightier than the sword and the

905
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: tongue is mightier than the blade. Tim l So Tim,

906
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: good luck at send me Anything dot WordPress dot com.

907
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: I hope you get some people swap an art soon. Seriously,

908
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: that is a great idea and we want to hear

909
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: your good ideas for um projects that will help make

910
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: humanity even slightly better. We definitely want to hear those ideas.

911
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 1: Or if you were in a cult and got out,

912
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: that's that's good stuff on even now. Okay, either one

913
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: of those, or if your cult had a good idea

914
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: to make humanity even better, we want to hear that too.

915
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: If you're still in a cult, say hi, direct us

916
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: big time too. Um. This is definitely an outsiders view

917
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: because neither Chuck nor I have been in a could

918
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: as far as we know. UM. So, if you are

919
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: an ex cult member, if you have an idea for

920
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: a project that will better humanity, or you're still in

921
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: a cult and you want to correct us, uh, send

922
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff podcast at how stuff works

923
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

924
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: VI is it how stuff works dot com. To learn

925
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in

926
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: the upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff

927
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes.

928
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

929
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: It's ready, are you