1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Even if 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: you are not a fan of Regency fiction, you're probably 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: familiar with this whole idea of a woman who is 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: in search of a husband, either because her family doesn't 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: have any money, or because the money they do have 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: is all settled on a male relative, leaving nothing for 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: the families women. It's such a running theme in fiction 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: that's either from or about the whole Regency era that 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: it's easy to start imagining that every upper class woman's 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: life worked that way. So today we're going to talk 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: about a woman whose life defied that whole convention. Her 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: name was Anne Lister, and she was not looking for 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: a husband at all. She was looking for a wife. 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: And Lister was also a prolific diarist. She wrote more 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: than six thousand pages and four million words over her lifetime, 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: and about a sixth of those words were written in code. 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: And these coded sections she wrote about her relationships with 20 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: other women so frankly and with so much detail that 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: when these coded sections were first decoded, people wondered if 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: they were a hoax. It probably didn't help. But in 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: addition to all of the sexually explicit parts, the lives 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: of Anne and her social and romantic circles are really 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: really full of drama. It's like if Jane Austen met 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: Sarah Waters. So we are not going to get into 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: the details of Anne's sex life, but heads up that 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: if this episode piques your interest and you decide to 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: go read her diaries for yourself, you will learn a 30 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: lot a lot about it. Also just a heads up 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: that later on this episode we have a brief mention 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: of a rape. And Lester was born in Halifax, West Yorkshire, 33 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: on April third sev Her parents were Jared me Lister 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: and Rebecca Battle. Ann's father had served with the British 35 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: in the American Revolutionary War, and Anne was one of 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: six children, four boys and two girls. The Listers are 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: part of the Landed Gentry, and Jeremy's older brother, James, 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: had inherited the estate of Shibden Hall. He was living 39 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: there with his and Jeremy's sister, who was also named Anne. 40 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: There are a lot of Ann's in this story. Shibden 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Hall had an income from rents on the cottages and 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: the farms that were part of the estate, and this 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: was large enough of an income that the family did 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: not have to work, but not large enough to support 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: a particularly lavish lifestyle. Apart from not having to work, 46 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: An's immediate family didn't have much money of their own, 47 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: and three brothers were next in line to inherit Shibden Hall, 48 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: but Anne herself was not expecting any kind of inheritance 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: When she left her boarding school in eighteen o four. 50 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: It was her aunt Anne who was paying her way. 51 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: And boarding school was the Mannor School in York, and 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: that is where she had her first romantic relationship, which 53 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: was with another student named Eliza Rain And and Eliza 54 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: shared an attic room at the school that was nicknamed 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: the Slope. The rest of the school's boarding students were 56 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: housed in a dormitory, and the reason for Anne and 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: Eliza being housed in the attic is not specifically documented, 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: but there are some likely reasons. For Anne. It was 59 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: probably because of money. The school's other boarding students were 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: generally much wealthier than she was, and it's also possible 61 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: that the school's staff wanted to keep Anne separate from 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: the other girls because of her behavior. She was stubborn 63 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: and rebellious and an unladylike tomboy. This whole making her 64 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: live in the attic thing because she didn't have any 65 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: money reminds me of a Little Princess starring Shirley Temple. Uh, yeah, 66 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: that one the shows up in various places. It's almost trophy. Yeah, well, 67 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: I think that that's part of the reason why were like, 68 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: are these diaries real? In addition to women definitely wouldn't 69 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: write about this stuff. There's the kids are living in 70 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: the attic because they don't have any money. So meanwhile, 71 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: Eliza was the daughter of an Indian woman and an 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: English doctor who had served with the British East India Company. 73 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: Her parents had gotten married in India, but their marriage 74 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: wasn't registered back in Britain, so Eliza and her sister 75 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: Jane were both considered to be illegitimate. Eliza was wealthy, 76 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: so the money thing was not why she was in 77 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: the attic. She was probably housed in the attic due 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: to a combination of racism and concerns about her supposedly 79 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: out of wedlock birth. Living together in the slope and 80 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: and Eliza developed an intense friendship that evolved into a 81 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: romantic relationship. After about six months, they had exchanged rings 82 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: and promised to marry one another after they finished school. 83 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: They also worked out a code that combined mathematical and 84 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: zodiac symbols with Latin and Greek letters so that they 85 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: could write each other love letters without being discovered. It 86 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: was really probably Eliza, who already spoke multiple languages, that 87 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 1: created the code itself, and would later use this code 88 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: to write all the details, I mean really all of 89 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: them about her relationships with other women in her diary. 90 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: After Anne and Eliza had been together for about two years, 91 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: someone intercepted a package that one of them sent to 92 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: the other, and their relationship was at that point discovered. 93 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: Anne was immediately asked to leave the school and told 94 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: that she could only come back after Eliza had left. 95 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: So Anne went back home to Halifax, where she was 96 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: tutored by the Reverend Samuel Knight. But this physical separation 97 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: didn't stop an Analyza's relationship. They kept writing each other letters, 98 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: this time without raising anybody's suspicions. Eliza also came to 99 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 1: stay with Anne for every school break and Ann's first 100 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: entry in her first diary, which is stated August eleventh 101 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: of eighteen oh six, is from the end of one 102 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: of these visits that began simply Eliza left us. By 103 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: the autumn of eighteen o eight, Anne was getting restless. 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: She was seventeen at that point, and she had become 105 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: a lot more flagrant and public in her stubborn tomboyishness. 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: She had also started giving flute lessons to an unmarried 107 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: woman named Maria Alexander, and this was a connection that 108 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: her family did not think was appropriate. Maria was over 109 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: thirty and her unmarried older brothers were also living at home. 110 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: Anne was also openly flirtatious with Maria, including in front 111 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: of Eliza when she took her along on one of 112 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: these flute lesson visits. In addition to disregarding Eliza's feelings 113 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: and all of this, and also started more and more 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: wilfully disregarding social expectations about how girls should behave. She 115 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: asked to go to Portsmouth with the Alexander's without a chaperone, 116 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: on a trip that would also involve Maria's older, unmarried 117 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: read brothers. She ignored her curfew and she visited the 118 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: Alexander's even after her family had forbidden her to do so. 119 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: When her family finally gave her permission to spend two 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: nights with the Alexander's over New Year's Eve, she stayed 121 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: there for two weeks. And it wasn't just with the 122 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: Alexander's that Anne willfully defied what was expected of a 123 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: young woman. She started a neighborhood scandal after she went 124 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: with a Captain Burn to his chamber alone on more 125 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: than one occasion to look at his pistols. AND's behavior 126 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: had become so notorious that people in the neighborhood started 127 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: calling her gentleman Jack. So through all of this, and 128 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: was still having a relationship with Eliza, and her behavior 129 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: was causing Eliza more and more distress. And this was 130 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: particularly true after Anne told Eliza that twenty one was 131 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: much too young for the two of them to live 132 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: together and they should wait until they were more like seven. 133 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: They were both seventeen at this point, so Anne was 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: basically saying, we'll live together in a decade. Eliza's letters 135 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: to Anne at this point became increasingly anxious and sorrowful, 136 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: and by eighteen o nine, she was asking for reassurance 137 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: that the two of them would ever be together at all. 138 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: In eighteen ten, a tragedy struck the Lister family that 139 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: changed Anne's life significantly. We're going to discuss that after 140 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: we first paused for a little sponsor break. In January 141 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: of eighteen ten, Anne Lister's oldest brother, John died during 142 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: an influenza outbreak. John had been Anne's closest sibling, and 143 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: they'd already lost two of their other brothers. So instead 144 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: of being one of six siblings and was now one 145 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: of three, with only her brother Samuel and her sister 146 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: Marian still living. John's death meant that Anne was now 147 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: second in line to inherit Shibden Hall, rather than third. 148 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: She started to consider what it would mean if she 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: inherited the estate and what she would need to be 150 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: able to do to run it herself. To do so 151 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: in the lifestyle she wanted, she would need more money 152 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: than Shibden Hall could provide. The solution was to marry well, 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: and for Anne that meant marrying a rich and ideally 154 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: noble woman. Eliza finished her studies at the Manor School 155 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: that same year, and she went to live with a 156 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: cousin in Halifax to wait for the day that she 157 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: and Anne could start a home together with Eliza no 158 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: longer at the school, and went back. It's possible that 159 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: Anne was still thinking that she could make Eliza her wife. 160 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: After all, Eliza was an heiress. She really had a 161 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of money that was going to come to her 162 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: when she turned twenty one. But not long after all 163 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: of this, when Anne became second in line to inherit 164 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: Shibden Hall, Eliza's family experienced its own tragedy. Eliza's sister 165 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: Jane had gotten married to Lieutenant Henry Bolton and moved 166 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: back to India with him, but he had abandoned her. 167 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: Her inheritance had become his when they married, so she 168 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: had nothing of her own. Arrangements were made for her 169 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: to come back to Halifax, but she had to travel 170 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: for months on a ship unaccompanied. She was imprisoned after 171 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: arriving in France because she couldn't prove her British citizenship. 172 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: After all of this, she arrived in England pregnant with 173 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: a child that could not have been her husband's that 174 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: was almost certainly the result of a rape. So now 175 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: that she was second in lines to inherit shipd in Hall, 176 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: and started to care a lot more about other people's 177 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: opinions of her. This included the opinions of two of 178 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: the day students at the Manor School. One was Isabella Northcliffe, 179 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,479 Speaker 1: who is referred to as Tib in Ann's journals. Isabella 180 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: and Anne had started a relationship, but then Isabella had 181 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: had introduced Anne to Marianna Belcomme. Of all of the 182 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: women and was involved with during her lifetime, she was 183 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: probably the most in love with Marianna and worried about 184 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: how Eliza's so called fallen sister would affect Marianna and 185 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: Isabella's opinions of her. Anne kept her engagement to Eliza 186 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: secret from Marianna and Isabella, and she didn't tell Eliza 187 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: about her romantic involvement with the two young women back 188 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: at school, but it was obvious to Eliza that Anne 189 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: was forming new relationships and that she was excluding her 190 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: from them. When Anne visited Marianna or Isabella, Eliza was 191 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: not invited. As Eliza approached her twenty first birthday, which 192 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: was when she would actually receive her inheritance, she found 193 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: herself with her own suitor. This was Captain John Alexander, 194 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 1: who insisted that this had nothing to do with her money. 195 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: At Whether that's true, I'm not really sure, but Eliza 196 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: still considered herself to be Anne's wife. She was also 197 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: increasingly worried, though, that Anne was never going to make 198 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: good on her promise that they would live together one day, 199 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: so she wrote to Anne to get reassurance about this 200 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: their future together and didn't answer. Instead, Anne, who could 201 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: be pretty manipulative in her relationships, sent letters to Eliza's guardian, 202 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: William Duffin, as well as to Captain Alexander, and gave 203 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: each of them a distorted version of what was going on. 204 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: The result was that the Captain went to William Duffin 205 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: to demand to marry Eliza, but Duffin refused. Even though 206 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: none of this was any of her own doing, Eliza 207 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: found herself branded as a temptress and she was ostracized. 208 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: She was so distraught over everything that she took a 209 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: trip to Bristol to try to recover. Meanwhile, Anne went 210 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: on her own trip to Bath with Isabella and Marianna 211 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: until it became clear that she just did not have 212 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: the money or the social connections to keep up with 213 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: two of them there. So Anne went back home on 214 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: June nine thirteen, as twenty two year old Anne was 215 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: on her way home she learned that her last surviving brothers, 216 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: Sam Mule, had drowned. Anne was now the one who 217 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: would inherit Shibden Hall, and it became even more important 218 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: to her to have a respectable life and reputation. Although 219 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: her brother had died during military service, he had drowned 220 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: on a pleasure boat. It was not considered to be 221 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: a very noble or distinguished death, and Anne thought that 222 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: she needed to make the family respectable again and to 223 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: conduct herself in a way that would bring honor to 224 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: the estate of Shibden Hall, and started cutting ties with Eliza. 225 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: She didn't invite Eliza to Sam's funeral or answer her 226 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: repeated requests to return her letters and gifts and engagement ring, 227 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: and eventually invited Eliza on a trip that she was 228 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: taking with Isabella, but Eliza got really sick early into 229 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: the journey and went home again once she was better. 230 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: Eliza was distraught over Ann's rejection, and not long after 231 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: she got home, she had an unexpected visit from her 232 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: sister Jane, who by this time was struggling with both 233 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: alcohol is um and tuberculosis and was supporting herself through 234 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: sex work. Jane also seemed to be emotionally unstable, and 235 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: when Eliza started to look for a place in London 236 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: to have her committed, gossip began to spread that she 237 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: was doing all of this for her own personal gain. 238 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: Eliza went through cycles of depression and agitation until Marianna 239 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: Belcome asked her father, who ran an asylum, to intervene. 240 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: Eliza was temporarily committed, and from that point she was 241 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: in and out of asylums until eighteen sixteen, when she 242 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: was declared insane. Eliza spent the rest of her life 243 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: in Marianna Belcolm's father's asylum, and she died there in 244 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty at the age of sixty eight. She had 245 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: a will. Originally she had left everything to Anne, but 246 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: she had rewritten it to leave everything to her former suitor, 247 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: Captain Alexander, who she eventually seemed to regret not having married. 248 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: But this new will was ruled invalid and so what 249 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: was left of her fortune was claimed by the Crown. 250 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: As for Eliza's sister, her son died in eighteen seventeen 251 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: at the age of six, and in eighteen nineteen her 252 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: husband was killed in action, even though he had abandoned her. 253 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: Jane was still legally his wife, so what was left 254 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: of her fortune reverted back to her. This was unfortunately 255 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: not in time to help her, however. James tuberculosis was 256 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: quite advanced at that time, and she died in November 257 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: of eighteen nineteen, only a few months after her husband's death. 258 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: As all of this was happening with Eliza being committed, 259 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: she obviously lived much longer after that. Anne suffered a 260 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: rejection of her own. Although she had never stopped having 261 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: physical relationships with other women, she was still passionately in 262 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: love with Marianna Belcolm. She had been making plans for 263 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: the two of them to have a life together, but 264 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: in March of eighteen sixteen, Marianna's family found a suitor 265 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: for her. They arranged things so that Anne, who was visiting, 266 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: would be staying with neighbors instead of at their house, 267 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: and then they greeted Marianna away to get married to 268 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: Charles Lawton. Anne was devastated. She made Marianna promise that 269 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: they would still live together once Charles died, and since 270 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: he was twenty years older than Marianna was, she hoped 271 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: that that was going to happen. Soon. In the meantime, 272 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: the two women did not stop seeing each other, and 273 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: Anne even lived with Marianna and Charles for the first 274 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: six months of their marriage. When Charles realized that Marianna 275 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: and Anne were physically involved, he banished Anne from the house, 276 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: but eventually he did allow the two women to see 277 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: one another again. This didn't work out so well for 278 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: Anne though. Later on in her life, she contracted a 279 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: sexually transmitted infection for Marianna and then passed it on 280 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: to at least one other partner. She eventually went to 281 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: Paris to try to seek medical treatment for this infection, 282 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: but there was not really a cure for whatever it 283 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: was at this point, so she probably carried it for 284 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: the rest of her life. After all of this drama, 285 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: Anne's life started to settle down a little. We're going 286 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: to talk more about that after we have another little 287 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: sponsor break. And Lister never completely forgave herself for betraying Eliza, 288 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: and she visited her in the asylum from time to 289 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: time until her death. After her own heartbreak with Marianna, 290 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: and started to take a more practical approach to finding 291 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: a wife. She started looking for somebody who would have 292 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: enough money to support the lifestyle that she wanted, but 293 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: not necessarily someone who provoked that same all consuming love 294 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: that she had had for Marianna. She also became more 295 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: practical in the rest of her affairs. By eighteen seventeen, 296 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: she had moved into Shibdon Hall with her aunt Anne 297 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: and uncle James, and she wanted to prove to them 298 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: that she was capable of managing the estate herself. Even 299 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: though she was the heir. There were other branches of 300 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: the Lister family, and she wanted to rule out any 301 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: possibility that the estate would wind up settled on them instead. 302 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: Anne had been keeping her diaries on a messy collection 303 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: of paper scraps until this point, but she abandoned that 304 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventeen and started writing in large bound journals, 305 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: meticulously dating her entries and recording all of her daily 306 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: habits AND's daily writing included the weather, how she had slept, 307 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: what she was learning. She was determined to continue her education, 308 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: and so she got up at five am every day 309 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: to study, and then she kept records of all of 310 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: her progress in her diary. She also used these diaries 311 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: to keep up with what was going on at Shibdon 312 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: Hall in the surrounding neighborhood. She kept track of all 313 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: her purchases and her interactions with tenants and workers. She 314 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: made notes about local gossip and quarrels among the gentry. 315 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: She also noted what was going on in the rest 316 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: of the world, the same way that Samuel Peep's diary 317 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: created an important record of life in London and major 318 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: world events from sixteen sixty to sixteen sixty nine, and 319 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: Lister's diary really created a record of Halifax in the 320 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: greater world from eighteen seventeen to eighteen party. She also 321 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: became a lot more reserved in her behavior and her 322 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: habits while continuing to defy gender expectations. She dressed in black, 323 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: which wasn't a color that women typically wore unless they 324 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: were in mourning, but it was a color that men 325 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: often wore while traveling, and was sort of patterning her 326 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: wardrobe around the idea of a distinguished conservative gentleman traveler. 327 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: She didn't wear trousers, though these were black dresses that 328 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: had a somewhat more masculine air. She also made it 329 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: a point not to gossip about people anymore, so like 330 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: that business where she was writing misleading letters to people 331 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: to try to get away like that really cut a 332 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: lot back. I'm so good, I'm so delighted to hear it. Uh. 333 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: When she was about twenty six and attracted the attentions 334 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: of a Mr Montague, but she did not reciprocate. On 335 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: January nine one, she wrote in her diary that she 336 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: had burned all of his farewell verse is so that 337 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: quote no trace of any man's admiration may remain. She 338 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: went on to say, quote I love and only love 339 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: the fairer sex, and thus beloved by them. In turn, 340 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: my heart revolts from any other love than theirs. In 341 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: July of eighteen twenty two, and and her aunt took 342 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: a tour of North Wales and they visited past podcast 343 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: subjects Eleanor Butler and Sarah Ponsonby, the Ladies of Longcothland. 344 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: On the twenty three she met Sarah Ponsonby at Plasknewid, 345 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: which was their home. Eleanor was ill that day and 346 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: was asleep during aunt's visit. She exchanged some letters with 347 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: the Ladies of Longcothlind later on after she returned home. 348 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: In January of eighteen twenty six, as uncle James died 349 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: and an inherited Shibden Hall under the condition that her 350 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: aunt Anne and her father could still live on the 351 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: property and collect portions of the rent, and Anne continued 352 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: to manage the domestic world of the household. While Anne 353 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: was responsible for the day to day matters of managing 354 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: the estate, which she did with the help of a 355 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: steward for the agricultural work and an agent for the 356 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: industrial work, she also got to work trying to improve 357 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: the estate. She had two goals in mind, to provide 358 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: the family with an ongoing comfortable income and to situate 359 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: the estate so that it would be worth more when 360 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: it was passed on to another air. Her extensive self 361 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: education over the past decade or so really paid off 362 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: in this She had developed a working knowledge of science, engineering, 363 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: and business, as well as the industries that were growing 364 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: up in the area, including cold timber and stone. She 365 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: also began traveling extensively all over Europe as she continued 366 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: to look for a suitable wife. She had no trouble 367 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: finding love interests. When she met someone she thought might 368 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: return her interest, she would bring up a book or 369 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: a play that had subtle or overt themes of love 370 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: between women and see how the other woman responded, and 371 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: this led to a lot of flings, but not really 372 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: to any long term attachment. It was back home in 373 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: Halifax that Ane Lister finally found a woman to spend 374 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: the rest of her life with, and that woman was 375 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: Ann Walker, an heiress who lived on a nearby estate. 376 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Her method of finding potential love interests is like the 377 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: modern equivalent would be walking up to somebody and and 378 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: asking them whether they like Teaket and Sarah like. This 379 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: is sort of the regency equivalent of gator conversation. In 380 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty two, and Lester had started working with an 381 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: architect named John Harper to try to improve Shipton Hall's 382 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: architecture and its grounds. She was a really avid walker, 383 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: so she had added a wilderness garden complete with waterfalls 384 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: and a small chamiere which is a that ryf hut, 385 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: and this hut became her retreat while she can while 386 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: she courted and Walker. And Walker, for her part, was 387 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: wary of a Lister, and Lister made no secret of 388 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: the fact that she was interested in and Walker's money. 389 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: And Anne Walker knew and Lister was not in love 390 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: with her. But by eighteen thirty four, both of the 391 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: ants were living at Shibden Hall, and on Easter Sunday 392 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: of that year they exchanged rings with one another and 393 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: then took communion together at Holy Trinity Church in good 394 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: ram Gate in York. They lived from that point on 395 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: as a married couple, including renting a pew together in 396 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: the front row of their parish church. And Walker's money 397 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: funded a lot of the work that Anne Lister was 398 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: planning at Shibden Hall over the next few years. Improvements 399 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: included a Norman tower to house the library, a grand 400 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: staircase in the entryway, and a set of tunnels so 401 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: that the household staff could get from place to place 402 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: without being seen. And Lister also decided to try her 403 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: hand managing a coal mining operation rather than leasing the 404 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: rights to someone else and earning money that way, and 405 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: Walker's money funded the sinking of two coal pits on 406 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: Shipden Hall's property. The two ants also continued travel as 407 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: much as their time and Anne Walker's money allowed, and 408 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: Lister was really the one driving these trips. She had 409 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: way more wonder less than Anne Walker did. These weren't 410 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: laid back pleasure trips either. Their travels were daring and unconventional, 411 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: and Lister was an avid mountaineer, and she summitted multiple 412 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: peaks in the Pyrenees. They took horseback journeys into territory 413 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: that was really more often home to military units than 414 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: two unescorted ladies. In eighteen thirty six, and Lister's father died. 415 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: She was at that point in control of ship in Hall. 416 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: I think this means that her aunt Anne had also died, 417 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: but I could not find confirmation of when that happened. 418 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty seven, the two hands wrote out wills 419 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: to each other, and each of them left the other 420 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: one all of her possessions and wealth, on the condition 421 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: that the surviving and never married. In eighteen thirty nine, 422 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: they left on a two year trip through Scandinavia, the 423 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: Low Countries and Russia. The following year, and Lester contracted 424 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: some kind of fever while touring the Caucusus. In her 425 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: last diary entry, dated August thirteenth, eighteen forty, she doesn't 426 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: mention anything odd about her health, but on September twenty 427 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: she died at the age of forty nine. She had 428 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: apparently requested to be buried at home in Halifax, so 429 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: Anne Walker had her body embalmed and accompanied it on 430 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: a six month journey home, and Lester was finally buried 431 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: at Halifax Parish Church. Their relationship had not always been 432 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: particularly happy, right I just I imagine Ann Walker just 433 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of gritting her teeth through some of this travel 434 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: when she really wanted to be at home with their 435 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: nice garden and the waterfall in the library at Shipton Hall. 436 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: But Lester's death and this long journey home with her 437 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: body really took a toll on Ann Walker's health. In 438 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: eighteen forty two, her sister and a doctor conspired to 439 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: have her declared insane and admitted to an asylum so 440 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: that they could take over her fortune, including Shipton Hall. 441 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: This was temporary in terms of the ownership of Shipton Hall. 442 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: When Anne Walker died in eighteen fifty four, the estate 443 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: reverted back to the Lister family. An Lister's diaries stayed 444 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: in the family library until the late nineteenth century. John 445 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: Lister's parents had inherited the estate when he was eight, 446 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: and he had been publishing transcriptions of the plain language 447 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 1: portions of Anne's diaries in the Halifax Guardian. With the 448 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: help of Arthur Barrell, he cracked the code and discovered 449 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: what Anne had been writing about all that time. John 450 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 1: Lister was horrified. I mean, I can't stress that they 451 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: are really explicit. Uh. And apart from there being really explicit, 452 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: homosexuality between men was illegal in Britain at the time, 453 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: and although homosexuality between women wasn't specifically outlawed, it was 454 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: highly stigmatized. So John M. Lister thought about burning these 455 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: diaries when he realized what was in them. Ultimately, I 456 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: think fortunately he locked them away again. It's been speculated 457 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: that John Lister also had relationships as other men, and 458 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: that this desire to keep the diaries hidden was partly 459 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: by motivated by self preservation and basically being afraid of 460 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: outing himself. Until the mid twentieth century, most of the 461 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: archivists and historians who examined Anne Lister's diaries stayed away 462 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: from their explicit content in their published work. Dr Phillis 463 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: Ramsden worked with the journals in the nineteen sixties and 464 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: wound up mostly establishing a chronology and focusing on Anne's travels. 465 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: A graduate student named Vivian Ingham was part of this 466 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: work as well, and was working on a PhD dissertation, 467 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: but she died before that work was complete. By the 468 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, at least some of the stigma surrounding lesbian 469 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: relationships was starting to fade, and in historian Helena Whitbread 470 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: published I Know My Own Heart The Diaries of En 471 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: Lister eighteen forty. This volume included both decoded and transcribed 472 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: material from the diaries. She published a second collection in 473 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: so these two volumes obviously do not cover the entire 474 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: diary that is thousands and thousands of pages, but they 475 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: did make some of the decoded material widely available for 476 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: the first time, and really parts of the rest of 477 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: it as well. Even when she was not writing in code. 478 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: An Lister's handwriting is really hard to read. There are 479 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: a lot of scans of pages from the diary on 480 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: the internet. It is very difficult. And on top of 481 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: the very difficult to read parts, she used a lot 482 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: of a lot a lot of made up abbreviations, so 483 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: it could be hard even when you could read what 484 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: she was saying to figure out exactly what she was 485 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: talking about. The thing too, to consider, right when you're 486 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: looking at someone's diaries and we've established that she really 487 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: notated everything, is that a lot of it is probably 488 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: very boring weather and had like transaction talk, so why 489 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: probably most people would not want to read a list 490 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: of the temperatures in Halifax, of course, so several years. 491 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: Uh an Lister's diaries are one of the longest in 492 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: the English language, and they demonstrate how she really was 493 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: ahead of her time. She successfully managed and improved on 494 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: Shibdon Hall at a time when it was not common 495 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: at all for a woman to be the head of 496 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: a household. In this way, she held her own and 497 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: the overwhelmingly male dominated and cut throat coal industry, she 498 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: found a way to live with a lot more independence 499 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: and autonomy than many women, even other wealthy white women, 500 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: were able to do at this time. The diaries also 501 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: show how she was ahead of her time in terms 502 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: of her relationships with other women, to the point that 503 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: she's sometimes described as the first modern lesbian. There have 504 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: obviously been same sex relationships throughout recorded history, but the 505 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: idea of a lesbian identity, or the more general idea 506 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: that having relationships with someone of the same sex is 507 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: intrinsically connected to who you are as a person, is 508 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: way more recent in the Western world. According to the 509 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: Oxford English Dictionary, the word lesbianism was first used in 510 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: writing to describe homosexual attraction between women in eighteen seventy, 511 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: with lesbian first used in the same way twenty years later, 512 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: and using the word lesbian to describe a person instead 513 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: of an attraction or a sex act is even later 514 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: than that that's first used in writing in nine five, 515 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: and that same thing is true for most of the synonyms. 516 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: So sapphis um meaning homosexual relations between women dates back 517 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: to eighteen ninety, but sapphist didn't arrive until the nineteen twenties, 518 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: and even then it indicated a dysfunction more than an identity. 519 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: All of this was decades after Anne Lister's death in 520 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: eighteen forty, even though she was living before language real 521 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: existed to describe herself, and Lister did seem to have 522 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: a sense that her attraction to other women was an 523 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: intransic part of herself. Her diaries document a lot of 524 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: self reflection and introspection about why she was attracted to 525 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: women and what that meant about her, and is also 526 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: completely accepting of who she is and these diaries, although 527 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: she does document some incidents of being harassed for what 528 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: she was wearing or how she lived her life, this 529 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: is really different from a lot of other early lesbian literature, 530 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: Like if you read The Well of Loneliness, which is 531 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: generally marked as the first lesbian novel in English, it 532 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: is tragic and sad and full of just a lot 533 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: of self doubt and shame, and there is none of 534 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: that and and Lister's life, Uh, probably because she lived 535 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: before lesbian was really an identity, because like the coalescence 536 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: of that identity was happening at the same time as 537 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of criminalization was happening in stigma, and when 538 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: those two things like came about in parallel with each other, 539 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: that meant you can see it's affect on people's um 540 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: like sense of themselves and mental health and all of 541 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: that in early lesbian literature. This sets and and her 542 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: diaries apart from some of the other women that we've 543 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: talked about on the show who definitely had long term 544 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: and loving relationships with other women but lived before the 545 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: idea of a lesbian identity really existed in Western culture. 546 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: So examples would be the aforementioned Ladies of Lang Laugham 547 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: and Jane Adams. Yeah, Jane adams life overlapped the evolution 548 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: of lesbian identity, but this isn't something that she wrote 549 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: about in any of her surviving journals or papers or anything. 550 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: So we know a lot less about how she conceived 551 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: of herself. It's easy to assume what she would have 552 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: thought about herself. But we also have other examples of 553 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: people we do know about who lived at a time 554 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: when an identity was evolving and we're like, I don't 555 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: feel like that word applies to me. Like we that 556 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: with Sylvia Rivera and the word transgender. She was like, 557 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's me. I have another person on 558 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: my short list for a future episode maybe who was 559 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: a vaudeville female impersonator that similarly lived at a time 560 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: when gay became like more coalesced into an identity for men, 561 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: and was similarly like, I don't think that's me, even 562 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: though he exclusively had relationships with their men for his 563 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: whole life. So anyway, because of all this, Inleven, the 564 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: United Kingdom formally recognized the historical and cultural value of 565 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: Anlister's diaries and they were added to the UNESCO Memory 566 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: of the World Register. Their entry on the UK Memory 567 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: of the World Register page reads, in part quote, the 568 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: diaries include a wealth of information about politics, business, estate management, religion, education, 569 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: and reading, science, medicine, travel, and local and national events, 570 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: as this important area of Yorkshire experienced the rapid effects 571 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: of the Industrial Revolution and seen from the viewpoint of 572 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: an extremely well educated and pioneering should probably say woman here, 573 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: but there seems to be a word missing. It is 574 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: her comprehensive and painfully honest account of lesbian life and 575 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: reflections on her nature, however, which have made these diaries unique. 576 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: They have shaped and continued to shape the direction of 577 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: UK gender studies and women's history. Her story reminds me 578 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the same exact kinds of um squabbles 579 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: and pettyback biting that I lived through in middle school, 580 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: but with much higher stakes we were We were not 581 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: having people confined two asylums in middle school when we 582 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: were sending snipy backbiting, mean girl letters to each other. Yeah, 583 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: I think where I I have a moment where I 584 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: turn on analystic is the letter where she kind of 585 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: contrives some some poor things to happen to Eliza by 586 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: sort of betraying her and making stuff up. Yeah she could. Yeah, 587 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: I also have some listener mail. I'm so delighted. Can 588 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: you share it? Sure? Can? This email comes from Liz 589 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: and it follows our Unearthed and twenty seventeen episodes and 590 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: the part where we mentioned a privy at Paul Revere House. Uh, 591 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: and she writes, Uh. The real version of events is 592 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 1: actually cooler, in my opinion than the story the media 593 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: picked up and misreported. This is another correction about that 594 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: the privy we found actually dates to the seventeenth century, 595 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: at least a hundred years prior to Paul Revere's residence 596 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: at nineteen North Square in Boston's North End. It's also 597 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: associated not with the building Paul Revere inhabited, but the 598 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: neighboring house now called the Pierce Hitchborne House. The City 599 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: of Boston Archaeology program was originally contacted about doing an 600 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: archaeological assessment of the side yard next to the house, 601 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 1: as they will be doing some construction in future years. 602 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: We initially we're just looking to see what was on there, 603 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: expecting to find only eighteenth century deposits associated with Paul 604 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: Revere's cousin Nathaniel Hitchborne, who occupied the house from s 605 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: eighty one, and later nineteenth century deposits from its later owners. 606 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: Imagine our surprise when we found the first intact seventeenth 607 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: century deposit in Boston found for several decades. Because Boston 608 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,479 Speaker 1: has such a long occupation and therefore an equally long 609 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: history of construction, that is not very common to find 610 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: undisturbed seventeenth century sites. Every time a building has renovated, 611 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: a trench's duck, a privy moved, etcetera, there's disturbance and 612 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: earlier deposits usually resulting in mixed fills that can't really 613 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: tell us too much definitive information about the people who 614 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: lived there. So any intact seventeenth century deposit in Boston 615 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: is a reason for excitement. This particular site may be 616 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: associated with Moses Pierce, a glazier who bought the original house, 617 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: and may also be associated with John Jeff's who built 618 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: the Paul Revere House in sixteen eighty UM. She sent 619 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: some pictures UH from the dig. So basically, the thing 620 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: that we described as the privy at the Paul Revere 621 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: House UH is not actually at the Paul Revere's house, 622 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: but Paul Revere's house is older than Paul Revere UH 623 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: living in the area, and also explains why I didn't 624 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 1: find any of this when I was doing that episode. 625 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: So The way that our unearthed episodes work is that 626 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: I keep up with news about um all kinds of 627 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: unearthed things throughout the year, and then when I can't 628 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: find when there's not a lot of clear information or 629 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: a link to an original paper in the original news reporting, 630 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: I try to find other stuff. But when I tried 631 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: to find other stuff about the Paul Revere Privy, I 632 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: was searching for Paul Revere Privy, which is not who's 633 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: privy it was. So I basically found a whole bunch 634 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: of inaccurate news articles, all confirming this idea that it 635 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: was the Paul Revere Privy and saying nothing else substantive 636 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: about it. So thank you Liz for sending us all 637 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: kinds of information and pictures about that. If you would 638 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: like to write to us about this or any other 639 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: podcast or history podcast with how Stuff Works dot com. 640 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash missed 641 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: in History, on Twitter at miss in History, our pinterest 642 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: in our Instagram names miss in History all those places. 643 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: Our website is missed in History dot com, where you 644 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: can find show notes about all the episodes Holly and 645 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: I have done together, and you will find an archive 646 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: of every episode we have ever done. So you can 647 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: do all that and so much more at our website, 648 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: which is missed in history dot com. For more on 649 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, is it how Stuff 650 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: Works dot com