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Speaker 1: Well, Lembias is important today, not just for his basketball.

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Speaker 1: He's important because he literally took the bullet, no pun intended.

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Speaker 1: I've never ever had anything to do with cocaine ever.

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Speaker 1: I've never been curious about it, but I'm definitely not

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Speaker 1: curious about it because of what happened to my friendly Bias.

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Speaker 2: This is the idea of a star in full bloom

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Speaker 2: that ultimately had that had that flame doubst by a mistake.

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Speaker 2: People should recognize this as, you know, a lesson, a

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Speaker 2: tragedy along the lines of a Greek tragedy. If you go,

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Speaker 2: you know this is in many ways, this is Icarus

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Speaker 2: flying to to the Sun and only then have those

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Speaker 2: wings melted and plummet to the earth.

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Speaker 1: So in a way, his death has made him like

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Speaker 1: a modern You could have everything in the world going

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Speaker 1: for you. For you to think you want to do

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Speaker 1: something that's as silly as starting one line of cocaine,

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Speaker 1: you should know better. Lendy's important because he can show

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Speaker 1: you that he can be on top of the world

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Speaker 1: one second and then not a part of the world

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Speaker 1: the next.

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Speaker 3: The Eight Side Network and Go Grady Media presents Linen

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Speaker 3: Biased a mixed.

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Speaker 4: Legacy I'm surprised the lenn Bys story is not being

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Speaker 4: told on a yearly basis when new athletes come into

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Speaker 4: college or into high school. The lend By story is

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Speaker 4: one of the better stories you can use to get

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Speaker 4: an individual or team to do the right thing.

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Speaker 5: The wrench, the.

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Speaker 4: Boy of a flat man.

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Speaker 6: It's so sad when a young race died second showing

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Speaker 6: the game, and he made him a name.

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Speaker 3: It's the story of investment became.

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Speaker 7: Many people from my generation I'm in my early sixties

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Speaker 7: vividly remember the day then Bias died and how they

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Speaker 7: reacted to the shocking news. Sure it helped if you

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Speaker 7: were a Maryland fan, which I am, and it helped

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Speaker 7: more if you were a Maryland athlete I was, But

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Speaker 7: you didn't have to have such a direct connection to

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Speaker 7: the University of Maryland to have your emotions tasered. After

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Speaker 7: finding out Bias died, some knew him from their home

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Speaker 7: roots or from playing basketball together. Derek Whittenberg grew up

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Speaker 7: not far from lend and played basketball with and against him.

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Speaker 7: He was a national champion with NSE State and later

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Speaker 7: a college coach.

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Speaker 8: I'll never forget it. And I heard the news and

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Speaker 8: I couldn't believe it. I pulled over the side of

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Speaker 8: the road and I cried like I cried like a

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Speaker 8: two year old.

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Speaker 7: And there was a seven year old old boy who

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Speaker 7: became a Celtics fan after they picked Lennin in the draft.

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Speaker 9: His name is Matt Roberto.

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Speaker 7: He found refuge in a comfortable place after he found

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Speaker 7: out Len died.

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Speaker 10: I just sprinted out of the house, crying, like when

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Speaker 10: I sprinted outside, went up to my tree house and

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Speaker 10: we had I had a little tree for it. I

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Speaker 10: sat up there for a little bit and then you know,

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Speaker 10: went on my swing set, swaying, swang, swang.

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Speaker 7: And still three decades later, some still can't forget Jay

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Speaker 7: Billis played against Bias for four years while at Duke.

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Speaker 9: I'll never stop thinking about it.

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Speaker 11: There'll never be a time when, you know, the draft,

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Speaker 11: the draft passes and I won't think about you know,

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Speaker 11: Len Bias died right right about now.

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Speaker 7: The death of Bias prompted those reactions because of who

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Speaker 7: he was, the top college basketball player in nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 7: It was because of how he played basketball with a

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Speaker 7: consistent and controlled intensity. It was because of what he

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Speaker 7: was expected to become. Perhaps the greatest player ever and

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Speaker 7: because of how he died shortly after consuming a large

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Speaker 7: amount of cocaine and suffering a heart attack. Most people

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Speaker 7: know that much about Bias, even those who are from

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Speaker 7: younger generations. But there is so much more to Len's

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Speaker 7: life and his legacy. That's why Go Grady Media and

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Speaker 7: Octagon Entertainment have partnered to produce a podcast series that

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Speaker 7: examines in great detail Lends life and legacy. This is

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Speaker 7: Dave Ungrady, the president of Go Grady Media, an executive

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Speaker 7: producer of this series. I'm the author of the book

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Speaker 7: Born Ready, The Mixed Legacy of Len Bias. The book

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Speaker 7: was published ten years ago this month. I'm here to

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Speaker 7: help introduce to you a groundbreaking piece of broadcast journalism

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Speaker 7: podcast series called Lend Bias a Mixed Legacy. The series

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Speaker 7: is based heavily on the book, and it examines Len's

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Speaker 7: life and legacy from his teen years when he learned

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Speaker 7: how to play basketball, through the thirty five years since

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Speaker 7: his death. Joining me as a producer on the podcast

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Speaker 7: is longtime sports journalist Don Marcus. Don joined The Baltimore

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Speaker 7: Sunday nineteen eighty five and covered the last year of

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Speaker 7: Len's career, and he reported on Maryland athletics for The

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Speaker 7: Sun for much of the next few decades. He's also

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Speaker 7: the author of a book, One Hundred Things Maryland Fans

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Speaker 7: Should Do Before They Die. Don has also reported on

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Speaker 7: the NBA extensively. He is one of the most respected

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Speaker 7: journalists covering Maryland athletics.

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Speaker 12: Welcome Don, Thanks Dave, I too remember exactly where I

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Speaker 12: was when I heard the news. I had just finished

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Speaker 12: covering the US Open golf tournhim in on Long Island

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Speaker 12: and was starting what I hoped to be a two

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Speaker 12: week vacation with my wife. I had played golf in

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Speaker 12: the morning and returned to the B and B where

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Speaker 12: we were staying. I was stunned and saddened to hear

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Speaker 12: about the most talented college player it ever covered personally

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Speaker 12: on a beat, dying at age twenty two, two days

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Speaker 12: after being picked number two by the Boston Celtics. My

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Speaker 12: wife asked me what I thought happened, and I said

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Speaker 12: I wouldn't be surprised if they found out it was drugs.

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Speaker 12: Why was I suspicious? Drugs were prevalent in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 12: not just among athletes, and bias was already reported to

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Speaker 12: have been celebrating with friends and teammates in his dorm suite.

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Speaker 12: It was one of the few times in my career

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Speaker 12: as a reporter that I regretted being right.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to Len Bias a Mixed Legacy on the

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Speaker 3: eight Side Network.

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Speaker 7: We will start off focusing on one topic, who was

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Speaker 7: Len Bias? What made him so great? And what was

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Speaker 7: the tragedy that defines him more than his accomplishments as

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Speaker 7: a basketball player. Throughout this segment, we will feature clips

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Speaker 7: from interviews done for the podcast series. They will add

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Speaker 7: depth to our discussion. To help deepen that discussion further,

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Speaker 7: we are joined by Clark Kellogg, a former college and

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Speaker 7: NBA player and now a college basketball analyst for CBS Sports.

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Speaker 7: Clark's college career ended as Len Biases began. He was

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Speaker 7: an All Big Ten player at Ohio State. After his

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Speaker 7: junior year, Clark was the number eight overall pick in

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Speaker 7: the nineteen eighty two NBA Draft by the Indiana Pacers.

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Speaker 7: Clark and others wonder what Len's NBA career might have

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Speaker 7: been like had he stayed healthy, and Clark has often

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Speaker 7: thought about what Bias' career art might have looked like

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Speaker 7: had he not died at the age of twenty two.

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Speaker 7: Welcome Clark to start off, Who was len bias from

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Speaker 7: your perspective.

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Speaker 5: Well, from my perspective, being a guy who was at

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Speaker 5: that time with the Indiana Pacers, I'm still attached to

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Speaker 5: the college game and that I played at Ohio State,

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Speaker 5: so I kept up with Big ten in college basketball.

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Speaker 5: In general, he was a dynamic, explosive high level player.

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Speaker 5: I mean, two time Player of the Year in the

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Speaker 5: ACC had a charisma about his game that was special

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Speaker 5: in addition to the athleticism, the finishing ability, the way

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Speaker 5: he played, the exuberance he played with, the explosiveness. So

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Speaker 5: I only got to witness that from Afar. But being

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Speaker 5: a guy who kind of was a student of the

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Speaker 5: game from the time I fell in love with it

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Speaker 5: at ten years old and then having been able to

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Speaker 5: enjoy some success myself at the high school, college and

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Speaker 5: pro level, you get a sense of what guys are like,

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Speaker 5: even if you haven't been on the court with me.

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Speaker 5: You watch him enough and see what they do. And

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Speaker 5: he had a huge, huge ceiling in terms of what

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Speaker 5: he could have become his NBA player. I mean, you

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Speaker 5: put up the numbers he did his last two seasons

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Speaker 5: at Maryland in the ACC against that type of competition,

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Speaker 5: and you look at his package, his toolkit, quickness, explosiveness,

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Speaker 5: really nice stroke, mid range game that would have probably

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Speaker 5: stretched out to deep range, the ability to finish in

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Speaker 5: the open court. All of those things would have translated,

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Speaker 5: I think, to a really outstanding NBA career, perhaps multi

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Speaker 5: time All Star career, had he not come to his

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Speaker 5: terrible and unfortunate death.

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Speaker 7: Now let's bring it Don Marcus to give us a

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Speaker 7: general overview of Len Bias the player. Don, you covered

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Speaker 7: Maryland basketball for the Baltimore Sun during his senior year,

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Speaker 7: and you would cover the NBA prior to that for Newsday.

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Speaker 7: Tell us about Len Bias the basketball player when you

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Speaker 7: started covering him, and compare him to other NBA talent.

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Speaker 9: At that time.

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Speaker 12: Dave, The interesting thing about covering Bias for a senior

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Speaker 12: at Maryland was that I had just finished covering another

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Speaker 12: future Hall of Famer, Chris Mallen at Saint John's, and

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Speaker 12: I had been around yet another Patrick Ewing at Georgetown

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Speaker 12: while writing about the Big East. My first Final Four

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Speaker 12: was in nineteen eighty two, and I watched Michael Jordan

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Speaker 12: hit the go ahead jumper that helped North Carolina beat

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Speaker 12: Georgetown in New Orleans. I had spent time with Jordan

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Speaker 12: during his last two years in Chapel Hill. I really

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Speaker 12: didn't know how good Bias was until I began to

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Speaker 12: cover Maryland. By the end of that season, he had

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Speaker 12: surpassed all the other great players that had covered.

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Speaker 7: Jordan included a few people knew Len the teenager, as

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Speaker 7: well as Brian Waller. Bias and Waller learned to play

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Speaker 7: basketball at the Columbia Park Recreation Center also known as

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Speaker 7: the Wreck, with the help of coach Johnny Walker. Waller

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Speaker 7: and Bias were later high school teammates for two years.

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Speaker 7: Bias grew up in the Columbia Park community in Landover, Maryland,

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Speaker 7: some ten miles from the University of Maryland campus. The

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Speaker 7: Wreck is located a couple of blocks from the house

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Speaker 7: where Lynn grew up. Waller did not talk to us

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Speaker 7: for this podcast, but he did talk to me from

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Speaker 7: my book about Len. Here's what he said about Len

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Speaker 7: learning the game at the Wreck. Johnny gave us everything

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Speaker 7: that wasn't in the rule book. When you're not used

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Speaker 7: to it, you whine and cry. People were fouling Lent

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Speaker 7: all the time. No matter how much you whined, Johnny

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Speaker 7: was still killing him. On Monday and Wednesdays, we'd play

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Speaker 7: against the older guys in the gym. That's how they played.

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Speaker 7: You either step up or you don't.

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Speaker 12: It's important to note that Bias, as best we know,

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Speaker 12: did not play organized basketball until the ninth grade. He

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Speaker 12: was cut from his junior high team in the seventh

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Speaker 12: and eighth grades.

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Speaker 7: Lend learned the game primarily from two people, Johnny Walker,

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Speaker 7: his mentor and coach at the Wreck, and Bob Wagner,

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Speaker 7: his coach at Northwestern High School. Wagner helped transform Len

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Speaker 7: from a baby to a bruiser Bias during the varsity

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Speaker 7: his sophomore year. Wagner quickly noticed that Bias struggled to

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Speaker 7: deal with adversity.

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Speaker 13: And Leonard wasn't a handful to manage. I mean, that's

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Speaker 13: one of the reasons I was strict with him and

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Speaker 13: everybody out.

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Speaker 14: Why in what ways? Oh, he was a cry baby.

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Speaker 14: He was a whiner.

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Speaker 9: You know, he had to open his mouth.

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Speaker 13: Most of the time he was right, but he would

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Speaker 13: try to talk back to the officials each slammer ball.

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Speaker 12: Once in a while, We will provide more details about

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Speaker 12: Len's high school and college careers in the next segment

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Speaker 12: of this podcast series, but we will address it here

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Speaker 12: with a general observation from Mollie Glassman, who I work

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Speaker 12: with at the Baltimore Sun. Molly covered high school basketball

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Speaker 12: in Maryland when Lenn was at Northwestern and later had

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Speaker 12: the Maryland basketball be at the Evening Sun when Bias

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Speaker 12: joined the team. She later became my editor at the

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Speaker 12: Morning Sun when the papers merged.

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Speaker 15: I had known of Lenny, you know, as a junior

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Speaker 15: at Northwestern, so you know, his reputation as a strong

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Speaker 15: local high school player had been established. So when he

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Speaker 15: signed with when Lefty signed him with Maryland, you know,

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Speaker 15: it was big news that he was signed. It wasn't

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Speaker 15: as big though as Adrian Branch, who was from Damatha

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Speaker 15: and got far more publicity in high school. So yeah,

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Speaker 15: he was a He was considered a local guy and

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Speaker 15: a public school star, but not quite in the in

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Speaker 15: the top echelon of recruits. I hadn't seen him play

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Speaker 15: in high school, but he had a reputation as a

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Speaker 15: guy who could play all around the hoop. He was

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Speaker 15: a good shooter, but he was also a strong rebounder

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Speaker 15: in high school, and then when he came to Maryland

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Speaker 15: as a as a freshman again he was pretty much

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Speaker 15: overshadowed by Branch as the big name recruit. And it

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Speaker 15: was towards the end of his freshman year that we

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Speaker 15: started to say, you know, you know, this kid is

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Speaker 15: is going to be great. He was, you know, he

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Speaker 15: always had the reputation as being somebody raw, you know,

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Speaker 15: who really needed to develop defensively and offensively.

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Speaker 12: Maryland started zero to five in the acc during bias

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Speaker 12: the senior year, in my first year on the beat,

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Speaker 12: he wound up carrying them back to the NCAA Tournament.

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Speaker 12: It was helped by that memorable thirty five point performance

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Speaker 12: to beat number one North Carolina on the road. It

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Speaker 12: was the first loss for the Tar Heels in the

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Speaker 12: then brand new deandom.

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Speaker 7: Thanks Don, Let's now bring it back to Clark. Kellogg, Clark,

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Speaker 7: what did you notice most about Land when he was

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Speaker 7: transforming into a dominant college player?

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Speaker 5: So from his junior year too, I thought his senior

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Speaker 5: year I saw enough to where I sot he just

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Speaker 5: refined what he had. I liked his ability to score

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Speaker 5: mid range and step out and knock down shots. Finishing transition.

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Speaker 5: He was a better than average rebounder.

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Speaker 4: The boy might.

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Speaker 7: When we come back, we will discuss Lend Bias the

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Speaker 7: person name.

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Speaker 3: This is the story of the best never became.

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Speaker 7: Welcome back to the introduction to the podcast series Len

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Speaker 7: Bias A Mixed Legacy. This is Dave Ngrady, producer of

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Speaker 7: the series along with Don Marcus. Before the break, we

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Speaker 7: explained who Len Bias was as a basketball player. Now

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Speaker 7: we will frame Len Bias the person. Bob Wagner, Len's

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Speaker 7: high school coach, recalled an adventurous side of Len's personality.

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Speaker 16: The thing that Leonard was good at is he smiled.

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Speaker 16: He took time to you know, with the girls and

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Speaker 16: the kids, and he's a charm. But it wasn't a

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Speaker 16: funny thing answer who he was. He enjoyed people, and

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Speaker 16: I think the people will work. You know, you like

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Speaker 16: Leonard whether he played basketball or not, if you knew it,

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Speaker 16: and I think that hurt people, you know, and he

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Speaker 16: was he was not running around wild, you know as

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Speaker 16: a kid in high school. You know, I've never seen

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Speaker 16: the kid at drank a beer or anything else.

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Speaker 13: I always said about Lenny, if you put him with

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Speaker 13: good kids, he's the best kid with the good.

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Speaker 3: Kids, you put in with the guys and he can

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Speaker 3: be the badest.

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Speaker 13: Well, for example, he didn't play his first game in

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Speaker 13: high school and the palm Pom sponsor had left the

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Speaker 13: classroom open with a bunch of candy bars in it,

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Speaker 13: which was going to be a fundraiser. So what we

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Speaker 13: had was activity buses. So by the time we finished

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Speaker 13: school or practice and the buses came to take the

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Speaker 13: kids home, the kids would study, or they'd wander the

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Speaker 13: halls or whatever. Well, of course they wandered in there,

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Speaker 13: and the guys took some candy bars, So that was

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Speaker 13: his punishment there.

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Speaker 7: One of the guys from the DC area who got

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Speaker 7: to know Len pretty well was Derek Whittenbury. Derek was

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Speaker 7: a start to matha high school and later won a

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Speaker 7: national title at NC State. He was a few years

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Speaker 7: older than Lenn but remembers playing pickup games with him

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Speaker 7: on the outdoor courts at the Wreck. He got to

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Speaker 7: know Lenny pretty well well.

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Speaker 8: Linny was very quiet, very quiet guy, very quiet and

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Speaker 8: somewhat shy unless he was around his friends. He was

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Speaker 8: open and friendly, but I wouldn't say he was this

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Speaker 8: party animal guy that just like wanted to be out

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Speaker 8: all the time.

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Speaker 9: I think he was.

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Speaker 8: He had a lot of shy innes door, and he

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Speaker 8: had a wonderful person out of a big smile. But

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Speaker 8: I don't think he was just outgoing gud Dave.

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Speaker 12: One of the best insights offered of Lenn the person

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Speaker 12: as he went from high school to college, comes from

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Speaker 12: Johnny Holliday. Johnny has been the radio play by play

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Speaker 12: voice of Maryland basketball and football since nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 14: My recollections of Glynn was, what a nice kid.

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Speaker 9: He was a.

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Speaker 14: Soft spoken, down to earth as down to earth as

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Speaker 14: you could be before he became a superstar, of course,

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Speaker 14: And I remember going to Northwestern High School to day

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Speaker 14: he signed is a letter of intent to come to

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Speaker 14: the University of Maryland, and sitting and talking with him

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Speaker 14: and realizing that, well, this kid's very shy. His kid's

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Speaker 14: very quiet. This kid's not going to be a very

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Speaker 14: good interview. He didn't say anything at all. I remember

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Speaker 14: the first year of the first couple of interviews we

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Speaker 14: did with him, he was like a lot of yes

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Speaker 14: and no answers and even sometimes nodding of his head.

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Speaker 14: And I would stop the recorder and remindle him that

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Speaker 14: this is rate you're going to have to talk. They

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Speaker 14: can't see you nodding your head and big smile. Oh okay, okay,

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Speaker 14: And like all young players, when you stick a microphone

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Speaker 14: in front of them, they moved back, and I kept

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Speaker 14: moving in, and he'd move back, and I'd move in

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Speaker 14: and he'd moved back, and it got to be a

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Speaker 14: He got to be one of the best interviews. And

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Speaker 14: he was guarded in what he had to say, because

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Speaker 14: you're not going to throw your teammates under the bus,

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Speaker 14: and you're not going to throw the coaches under the bush.

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Speaker 14: But he was He was always fun to talk to,

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Speaker 14: always fun to be around.

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Speaker 12: John Selling met Len Bias at the Five Star basketball

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Speaker 12: camp when they were both in high school. At Georgia Tech,

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Speaker 12: he played four years against Bias and he got to

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Speaker 12: know Len very well.

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Speaker 1: He was introverted, uh, really quiet, but he would show

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Speaker 1: up on the court. Never brag adocious, if that is

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Speaker 1: even a word.

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Speaker 9: He never.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't one of those people. He would give you

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Speaker 1: the business and that be it. Like even if you

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Speaker 1: would have he'd be like, calm down, calm down. He

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Speaker 1: didn't like that. He didn't like all that high five

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Speaker 1: in jumping around calm it down. He would always see

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Speaker 1: Lenny be like yo to till.

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Speaker 7: As Len's career progressed at Maryland, he started to feel

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Speaker 7: some pressure, not only from basketball, but also in his

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Speaker 7: personal life. I'd like to play a SoundBite of Bob Wagner,

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Speaker 7: his high school coach, talking about a discussion he had

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Speaker 7: with Lenn. Coach Wagner says Lenn would stop by the

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Speaker 7: high school to talk with him. He mentioned a conversation

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Speaker 7: that focused on a common trapping of being a superstar athlete.

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Speaker 6: Do say, mister Wagner? He says, you know, I'm having fun,

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Speaker 6: But he says, you know, I get tired of this.

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Speaker 6: You know, girls coming by, I'm trying to study and

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Speaker 6: the girls combined. Ye notice was early on for Lin.

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Speaker 6: He says, if I say no, then they'll go like

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Speaker 6: when you were with her?

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Speaker 12: Or what's wrong with you?

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Speaker 7: Or don You've talked about how difficult Len was to

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Speaker 7: deal with during his senior year, can you expand on that.

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Speaker 12: I had certainly had my share of covering reluctant superstars

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Speaker 12: or athletes. He just didn't like talking to the press.

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Speaker 12: I've been one of the few college basketball writers who

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Speaker 12: was invited to Georgetown to interview Patrick Ewing for the

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Speaker 12: first time. By the time I began covering Bias, he

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Speaker 12: had pretty much become the player whoeveryone wanted to talk

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Speaker 12: to in College Park for a late season profile. He

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Speaker 12: blew me off for two sit down interviews at Colefield House.

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Speaker 12: I finally got him in the flight home after a

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Speaker 12: game against wake Forrest was fogged in the PR Guy

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Speaker 12: told me I had a captive audience, and when Bias

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Speaker 12: saw me coming toward him, he smiled. I told him, Lenn,

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Speaker 12: you've been a pleasure to watch and a pain in

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Speaker 12: the ass to cover. He laughed and said, I respect

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Speaker 12: that you're being honest. Here again is my former colleague,

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Speaker 12: Molly Glassman.

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Speaker 15: By the time he was a junior and senior, he

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Speaker 15: was less accessible and harder to read than he was

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Speaker 15: when he was younger. When he was younger, I certainly

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Speaker 15: remember how much he talked about he loved to draw.

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Speaker 15: At one point he wanted to be an interior designer.

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Speaker 15: You know, he was talking about that artistic side of

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Speaker 15: him his personality, and you know, I'm not sure where

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Speaker 15: that went, but I don't recall that really at all

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Speaker 15: his senior year that that was part of who he was.

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Speaker 15: He was he always seem to have some some group

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Speaker 15: of people waiting for him. At the end of that

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Speaker 15: Coalfield House, you know that where the locker rooms came out,

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Speaker 15: he was. He wasn't going back to his dorm to

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Speaker 15: fill his sketch pad after games. I don't think.

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Speaker 3: He was going to make it as the number two

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Speaker 3: make bout of bold conceptics.

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Speaker 4: It would have been.

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Speaker 3: So you're listening to lembys, she mixed like on the

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Speaker 3: eight side now in st College, anybody was the.

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Speaker 7: Beast from the streets to land or much of the

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Speaker 7: story begins after he died. Few could have imagined the

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Speaker 7: impact his death would have on American society, but it

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Speaker 7: did on politics, on black culture, on the sports world,

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Speaker 7: on drug use and abuse. This podcast series, len Bias

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Speaker 7: A Mixed Legacy will explain all of that in detail,

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Speaker 7: but for the purposes of this introduction segment, we will

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Speaker 7: discuss those topics more generally within the context of why

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Speaker 7: is the legacy of len Bias so important still today.

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Speaker 7: We will also hear throughout this segment the voice of

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Speaker 7: Justin Tinsley, an ESPN commentator and a culture and sports

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Speaker 7: writer for The Undefeated, as well as from others who

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Speaker 7: have insight into the importance of Len's legacy. We are

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Speaker 7: going to start this segment off talking with Clark Kellogg,

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Speaker 7: and for that I'll throw it to Don Marcus.

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Speaker 12: Do you think that you know kids these days would

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Speaker 12: listen to a story about Len Bias, you know, and

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Speaker 12: even if they didn't he know who he was, maybe

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Speaker 12: never heard of him. But then if you mentioned them,

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Speaker 12: mentioned him to them, that all of a sudden he

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Speaker 12: becomes even a different kind of figure now thirty five

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Speaker 12: years later.

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Speaker 5: I don't think there's any question. I don't specifically use

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Speaker 5: his story, but I do on occasion highlight the consequences

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Speaker 5: of choices. And stories are powerful, whether they're inspirational or

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Speaker 5: whether they're sad or tragic. And when you can use

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Speaker 5: stories that relate to your audience. And obviously we know

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Speaker 5: that a lot of young folks, particularly young black males,

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Speaker 5: are enamored with sports and the NBA in particular in basketball,

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Speaker 5: and to hear not only the great successes, but to

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Speaker 5: hear some of the missteps, some of the tragedies that

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Speaker 5: have unfolded as they relate to choices or missteps. But

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Speaker 5: even sometimes it might not even be about that. It

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Speaker 5: might just be the fragility of life.

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Speaker 7: Justin Tens, he was only four months old when Len

440
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 7: Bias died. He first heard about Bias in the mid

441
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 7: nineteen nineties from his uncle, who was living in the Washington,

442
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 7: DC area and apparently was a Len Bias fan. Here's

443
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 7: justin explaining how we learned about Len from his uncle

444
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 7: and what the Len Bias legacy has meant to him.

445
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 9: And I just never forget being with him.

446
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 11: One time, I may have been like nine, nine or ten,

447
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 11: and we were talking about basketball, and I believe Michael

448
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 11: Jordan was retired for the first time at that point,

449
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 11: and I was telling him I really wish Michael Jordan

450
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 11: would come back, and you know, I missed watching him

451
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 11: play basketball. He was like, yeah, I wish Len Bias

452
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 11: would have been around to play Mike, you know, with

453
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 11: the Celtics and see how that would have played out.

454
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 9: And I at to that point, I was like, who

455
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 9: is Lin Bias?

456
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 11: And so he kind of gave me a crash course

457
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 11: at that point, he was like he was this a

458
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 11: great player, one of the best college basketball players he

459
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 11: had ever seen, and he was supposed to be great

460
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 11: in the league, but he unfortunately passed away. He passed

461
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 11: away from drugs. He was drug overdose. But he was

462
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 11: a great basketball player.

463
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: So he's just.

464
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 11: Always remembered as one of the big what ifs, not

465
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 11: just in basketball, but just in life culturally speaking, What

466
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 11: could this guy have been?

467
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 9: You know, who would he have become in the league?

468
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 11: How might career arts and paths have been different had

469
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 11: Lin Bias stayed around. He's kind of like a John

470
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 11: Henry type guy for my generation. So he's a tall tale.

471
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 9: But he's also even more so a cautionary tale for

472
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 9: my generation.

473
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 11: Just but you can't take you can't take talent for granted,

474
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 11: and you can't take your time on this earth for granted.

475
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 7: Justin Tinsley's perspective is important because he's in his mid thirties.

476
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 7: He represents a younger generation that knew of Len Bias

477
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 7: but did not know much about him, and it appears

478
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 7: Len's story still resonates with his generation. Clark, why do

479
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 7: you think Len's legacy is still so important to not

480
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 7: just Justin's generation, but younger generations?

481
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 5: You know, I think too the legacy component as difficult

482
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: as this might be, is that it's not only tragic,

483
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 5: but it is a it's a cautionary tale for all

484
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 5: of us, and particularly for young folks. Here's a guy

485
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 5: who was on top of the world. He was gifted

486
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 5: and had optimized his gifts as a basketball player to

487
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 5: realize the dream of being an NBA player, and in

488
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 5: a moment or moments of a bad choice or decision

489
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 5: around cocaine drug use, it cost him his life. And

490
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 5: that is a message that resonates not just because it

491
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 5: was drugs, but because life is fragile and sometimes the

492
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 5: choices we make can be fatal. And that to me

493
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 5: is a part of the other side of the legacy

494
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 5: where it can be instructive. Sure, it was a tragedy,

495
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 5: it was painful, and it doesn't go away for those

496
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 5: closest to learn, and it's a reminder for all of

497
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 5: us that the choices we make, the associations we have

498
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 5: with others, we just have to be mindful that if

499
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 5: we're not careful, it can it can sometimes end not

500
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 5: just badly, but fatally.

501
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 7: Now let's bring this back to Justin Tinsley again. Justin

502
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 7: is working on a book about Biggie Smalls, the rapper

503
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 7: from the nineteen nineties. Biggie got caught up in gangs

504
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 7: and drugs of that era and was killed in a

505
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 7: drive by shooting. Justin ties the mandatory minimum prison sentence

506
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 7: laws to that time of the nineteen nineties, he helps

507
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 7: explain mandatory minimums. Here's justin connecting Biggie Smalls and Len Bias.

508
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 11: So when you listen into an album like Biggie Smalls's

509
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 11: nineteen ninety four debut Ready to Die, he talks about

510
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 11: being neck deep in the drug game and understanding that like,

511
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 11: if I walk around this corner, if I sell to

512
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 11: the wrong person, like that could be the end of me,

513
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 11: whether whether I'm killed or whether I go to jail

514
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 11: for a long time. Because at that point the ninety

515
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 11: four Crime Bill had been around that I believe the

516
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 11: eighty six Crime Bill had preceded that. So when we

517
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 11: talk about these mandatory minimums, and we talk about this

518
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 11: life or death experience in the streets, selling drugs and

519
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 11: being caught with even a small amount of a paraphernalia

520
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 11: at that point in the late eighties and early nineties

521
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 11: could lead to a long trip up state.

522
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 9: And so when we talk about that you could piece

523
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 9: it back to Linn Bias's death.

524
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 11: It may not be direct, it may not be Biggie saying, oh,

525
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 11: making a rhyme about Linn Bias, but you know when

526
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 11: he was you know when he talks about the streets

527
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 11: is a shortstop. Either you slanging crack rock or you

528
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 11: got a wicked jump shot. You know you can piece

529
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 11: that back to somebody like a Limbias because that death

530
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 11: changed everything and from what from what I've read, almost

531
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 11: like in the the blink of an hour, the snap

532
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 11: of finger, so that when we talk about limb Bias culturally,

533
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 11: we talk talk about how his death in so many

534
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 11: ways calls and you know, an over an overreaction by

535
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 11: the federal government, and that overreaction directly impacted our community

536
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 11: and you know, people who.

537
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 9: Look like us, so Lend Bias.

538
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 11: We talk about basketball, but it always tends to drift

539
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 11: off into just life and how the cultural ramifications of

540
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 11: just his talent and his death and the legislation that

541
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 11: was the past passed immediately after that. Once you start

542
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 11: to peel back the layers, lin Bias's name is always

543
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 11: going to come up. Because when you when you mentioned

544
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 11: somebody like limb Bias's name to people in my generation

545
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 11: and is always like, yeah, he could have been something

546
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 11: like at least that's what I know of him, Like,

547
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 11: we were robbed of seeing a potentially all time great talent.

548
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 7: People who we have interviewed for this podcast series had

549
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 7: a mix of opinions about why Len's story is so

550
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 7: important today. Let's hear some of those voices. We will

551
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 7: identify them on the back side of the comments.

552
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 17: I think one of the most important messages that students

553
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 17: can glean from lend bias the story is that we

554
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 17: all have challenges. How you deal with those challenges will

555
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 17: define ultimately who you are. And I think one of

556
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 17: the most important messages we can glean is to do

557
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 17: the best you can to find healthy ways to cope

558
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 17: with what you're struggling with, because drugs is never the answer,

559
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 17: and ultimately you're not going to benefit from doing that

560
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 17: as much as you might think, because all drugs and

561
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 17: alcohol do it masked the issue.

562
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: I think again, this is the idea of a star

563
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: in full bloom that ultimately had that had that flame

564
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: doust by a mistake, and this is not the only

565
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: kind of mistake that you can make. To dowst that

566
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: flame and to recognize that no matter how good you are,

567
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: no matter how good you think you are, you know

568
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: you're vulnerable. That many coaches used to preach to their

569
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: players about making good decisions, I think for an entire

570
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: generation of young.

571
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 18: Men in this area, young men and women, and particularly

572
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 18: those in the athletic community, this story rings as a very,

573
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 18: very tragic story that will be used for a long

574
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 18: long time.

575
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 5: To help other people recognize how decisions and mistakes matter

576
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 5: in life.

577
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 9: Because all of those choices, all of those decisions.

578
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 18: Can have impacts that reverberate far beyond what you think

579
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 18: of in the moment.

580
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 7: That last comment came from Ed Tapscott. Ed is the

581
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 7: personnel director for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He's a former college

582
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 7: and NBA coach. He's a former NBA executive, and he

583
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 7: grew up in Washington, d C.

584
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 14: And New len Well.

585
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 7: Before Ed, we heard from Len Elmore, a former Maryland

586
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 7: All American and an NBA veteran, and Bonnie Bernstein, a

587
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 7: former Maryland gymnast and a prominent sportscaster.

588
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: The boy man, it's so sad with you.

589
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 9: Second show that the.

590
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 7: Game he made them a name next on Len Bias

591
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 7: The Mixed Legacy Man Born Ready, Len's Basketball Life.

592
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 14: Man It's So Sad Second.

593
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 5: Story.

594
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 7: This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready

595
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 7: The Mixed Legacy of Len Bias, published.

596
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 9: By Gogrady Media.

597
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 7: The series is produced by Go Grady Media in partnership

598
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 7: with Octagon Entertainments. This segment was produced by Daveon Grady

599
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 7: and Don Marcus.

600
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 9: It was written by Davon Grady.

601
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 7: Technical production provided by Octagon Entertainment. Theme music provided by

602
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 7: mc Longshot. Production assistance was provided by Kevin McNulty, Pino Quagliata,

603
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 7: laarn Ross, Georgia Brown, Katy Fair, Jamal Williams, Kelsey Mannu

604
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 7: and Enzo Alvaringa. Matt Dewhurst is providing social media assistance

605
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 7: and special thanks to the University of Maryland and American

606
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 7: University for providing interns. The Decision Education Foundation is a

607
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 7: content and promotional partner of this podcast series. For more information,

608
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 7: go to go Gradymedia dot com, g O g r

609
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 7: A d y M E d i A dot com

610
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 7: and a reminder don't forget to subscribe to lend Bias

611
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 7: a Mixed Legacy. You can find it on Apple Podcasts,

612
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 7: Spotify and wherever you listen to your podcasts.

613
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 8: Man Is said when Young Second shown the game

614
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 12: Story