Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisburg. The reason why
Speaker 1: girls are not a school Popoti is the culprit. You know.
Speaker 1: Popot continues to force school solutions on parents and I
Speaker 1: think that needs to be understood. Poverty can take many forms.
Speaker 1: It can mean that families can't afford school fees or
Speaker 1: basic supplies like pens, pencils and stationary or families may
Speaker 1: just need the children to help with work and childcare
Speaker 1: at home, whatever the reasons. It's estimated that there are
Speaker 1: currently more than fifty million girls who've left school before
Speaker 1: receiving their high school diplomas. Those who do manage to
Speaker 1: complete their schooling usually have more support from their families
Speaker 1: and communities. And I remember feeling very guilt and very
Speaker 1: tone that I had gotten the chance that they also
Speaker 1: you know, needed. But you know, I think some people
Speaker 1: call it survive and guilt, but it's just as the
Speaker 1: heartbreaking patrol feed. When Angelie Murramirawa was a young girl
Speaker 1: in rural Zimbabwe, she was nominated by her community to
Speaker 1: receive additional support for her education. That support proved essential
Speaker 1: for her success. She now helps to run the nonprofit
Speaker 1: that helped her. The campaign for female education. It works
Speaker 1: to keep girls in school across the African continent. Universal
Speaker 1: quality education is a human right and one of the
Speaker 1: UN's Sustainable Development goals. It's understood to be a basic
Speaker 1: requirement for any country that hopes to flourish, and it's
Speaker 1: a goal that the world's nations had been getting closer
Speaker 1: to achieving. Between the years two thousand and twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: primary school completion rates rose from seventy percent to eighty
Speaker 1: four percent globally, and before the pandemic arrived, it was
Speaker 1: expected that nearly ninety percent of all school aged children
Speaker 1: would be able to complete primary school by the year
Speaker 1: twenty thirty. As part of Solvable Setback series, we're talking
Speaker 1: with leaders around the world about the pandemic and how
Speaker 1: to get goals like universal education back on track. COVID
Speaker 1: has been very, very brutal, but Mura Mirwa sees COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen not only as a setback, but also as an opportunity.
Speaker 1: If we have land, we should actually be able to
Speaker 1: expedite our solutions to the crisis that we face. This
Speaker 1: should actually move us a head faster because we have land.
Speaker 1: My name is Angeline Angie. I'm the executive director for Comfort.
Speaker 1: Our work as Comfort solves the problem of girls exclusion
Speaker 1: from education. Angie, thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1: Just to get started, could you describe the gap in
Speaker 1: women's in girls' education in Africa? Well, the figures that
Speaker 1: we have got that our official so far and from UNESCO,
Speaker 1: is that before COVID we had over fifty two million
Speaker 1: girls were out of school in Subside and Africa. We're
Speaker 1: very focused right now on the question of problems that
Speaker 1: we're getting better and that have gone into reverse because
Speaker 1: of the global pandemic. And I wonder what impact COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen has had on girls education. I know that in
Speaker 1: Africa in many countries the numbers are much better than
Speaker 1: they've been in many places in the development world. But
Speaker 1: I assume that there are also different kinds of second
Speaker 1: order effects. So what impact has the pandemic had. COVID
Speaker 1: has been very, very brutal. And yes, it's true that
Speaker 1: you know in Africa we had dead improvements in terms
Speaker 1: of access to primary education for most children. But what
Speaker 1: is COVID done is started eroding the gains that have
Speaker 1: been met in that space as family started losing income.
Speaker 1: We're not even talking about you know, the school closure,
Speaker 1: the prolonged school closure. So as much as our online
Speaker 1: learning was introduced as a response by most governments, it
Speaker 1: was amazing and awesome for the children that could access
Speaker 1: it and afforded, but it also meant that for the
Speaker 1: majority of the children that we work with as an
Speaker 1: organization were in the hardest to rich communities, they did
Speaker 1: not get support with online learning. So as a result
Speaker 1: of it, I know, Prefect that you know, our alumni
Speaker 1: network are supported with printed out materials. They were doing
Speaker 1: social distance study groups and all that. But you know,
Speaker 1: it is the duty of the government to also ensure
Speaker 1: that our quality education is provided to every child. But
Speaker 1: COVID actually exposed that we have issues of equity, you know,
Speaker 1: informed by technology, you know, access for various sermitis. So yes,
Speaker 1: just to say that unfortunately COVID is exacerbated the inequality
Speaker 1: in Africa, particularly in education on boys and girls, but
Speaker 1: also on those that could afford it and those that can't.
Speaker 1: Also on urban and rural Have schools been closed in
Speaker 1: many countries in Africa? What does the picture look like?
Speaker 1: They're with actually the basic question of whether children are
Speaker 1: going to school. The majority of African countries closed schools
Speaker 1: at the onset of COVID. That was last year and
Speaker 1: right now schools are opened at least another for effect
Speaker 1: across five African countries and Babo, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania and Ghana.
Speaker 1: But then it's heartbreaking to see what COVID has done.
Speaker 1: We have a situations where we've seen most girls, particularly
Speaker 1: now having to take up more household shoes than they
Speaker 1: were doing before the pandemic. But we've also seen a
Speaker 1: lot of children actually take up work in order to
Speaker 1: sustain their families. And will say work, we're talking about
Speaker 1: working in other people's working in cultural labor because you know,
Speaker 1: because of restrictions, markets were closed, family income fail, so
Speaker 1: we had children stepping in to sustain families or bassets.
Speaker 1: This is even where so child headed families where you've
Speaker 1: got often the older child taking care of the rest
Speaker 1: of the family, or where there are grandparents he headed
Speaker 1: our families where the grandparents are too all themselves to
Speaker 1: fend for the children. So you have children we've had
Speaker 1: to work to be able to sustain themselves. Unfortunately, that
Speaker 1: also goals with issues of you know, transactional sets or
Speaker 1: you know like girls being taken advantage of in exchange
Speaker 1: for food and all that. So those have been there.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the exacerbated crisis are due to
Speaker 1: COVID and this is mainly because of the response to
Speaker 1: COVID where restrictions were put to care the spread. Discrimination
Speaker 1: against girls takes different forms obviously in different parts of
Speaker 1: Africa and North Africa versus West Africa, Central Africa. The
Speaker 1: opposite of school for girls in Africa is often increased poverty,
Speaker 1: full time work and child marriage. That's another way to
Speaker 1: look at the statistics about what's happening. Where is the
Speaker 1: problem the worst and where are you seeing the greatest progress?
Speaker 1: If you know, the issue of girls exclusion, like you said,
Speaker 1: it takes so many forms. There's exclusion from education totally,
Speaker 1: you know, like where girls not in school, but there's
Speaker 1: also exclusion within the system where girls do not have
Speaker 1: the academic self esteem to participate, where girls do not
Speaker 1: have the confidence to be able to participate. So from
Speaker 1: our stities as an organization, academic self esteem is the
Speaker 1: second highest after poverty in terms of girls participation in school.
Speaker 1: And I think you know that Africa there's huge challenges
Speaker 1: of child marriage. But we actually you know discovered that
Speaker 1: actually child marriage is not the reason why girls are
Speaker 1: not in school. It's actually every sort of girls not
Speaker 1: being in school. So when girls are in school, they
Speaker 1: are least likely to be married because they are in school,
Speaker 1: and also it addresses issues of adolescent pregnancy. The statistics
Speaker 1: have continued to show that that education actually protects girls.
Speaker 1: So I just want to be able to point out
Speaker 1: that it is important for us to continue to be
Speaker 1: newest and responsive to children in each context, rather than
Speaker 1: probably over generalizing, because like you rightly say, they are
Speaker 1: varying levels and magnitude of the problem in each context
Speaker 1: and from each country. That's the tragedy of it. Camp
Speaker 1: FED is the campaign for Female Education your organization. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about how camp FED
Speaker 1: works and what it does. I love comfort, and just
Speaker 1: just to say that I'm actually one of the very
Speaker 1: first girls supported by Camford through school and Comfort supported
Speaker 1: me at a time in my life when I was
Speaker 1: about to drop out of school. I was transitioning from
Speaker 1: primary to secondary school. So I know comfored quite intimately.
Speaker 1: So what comfort does is it supposed families without their
Speaker 1: financial means to support their children through school. So we
Speaker 1: meet our old school going course we're talking about it
Speaker 1: is a stationary pencils pans, sanitarywhere and where children have
Speaker 1: to travel long distances. We also support them with that.
Speaker 1: But the most important thing that I want to be
Speaker 1: able to share here is that comfort response to each
Speaker 1: and every individual child's barriers to education and works with
Speaker 1: the community to be able to add raise that. So
Speaker 1: today CONFID is supported over four point eight million children
Speaker 1: to go to school across Africa. So tell me a
Speaker 1: little more about your story. You said when you were
Speaker 1: finishing primary school it wasn't given that you were going
Speaker 1: to stay in school. Is that right? And was that
Speaker 1: when Camford began to support you? Sure? So okay, let
Speaker 1: me just give you a bit of background on me.
Speaker 1: I went on the first born in a family of
Speaker 1: you know, five children, So I went through Zimbabwe. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: just to start even further back, yes, yeah, I'll start
Speaker 1: from there. So I was born in I grew up
Speaker 1: in a grew of village in Zimbabwe Court then theres
Speaker 1: the southeast part of a which is the capital city.
Speaker 1: As I went through primary school, I had to work
Speaker 1: you know, in other people's seals. But also I remember
Speaker 1: really watching people's dishes, so such basic things as pencils
Speaker 1: and exercise books. And when I received my primary school
Speaker 1: leaving certificate, I had the best possible results in the country.
Speaker 1: But as young as I was at that time, I
Speaker 1: knew that there was no way my parents could afford
Speaker 1: the cost of secondary school because come on, you're starting
Speaker 1: from just doing four subjects at primary. At secondary school
Speaker 1: were doing like over nine subjects. You needed more books,
Speaker 1: more pens to write in, you needed more discent clothes.
Speaker 1: And I was getting older as well. So that's that's
Speaker 1: at the point when I knew that I there was
Speaker 1: no way mine reselves, We're just not enough to get
Speaker 1: me to secondary school. So that's when CANFID was also
Speaker 1: starting to wake in my community and I was selected
Speaker 1: for support and CONFID started supporting me at that time
Speaker 1: to secondary school. And what did that support consist of?
Speaker 1: What else did they provide? I got decent clothes for
Speaker 1: the first time, imired at a school uniform, which meant
Speaker 1: that I looked like any other child who was in school.
Speaker 1: I had not want any new parents of shoes at all.
Speaker 1: So when we were about to go for shoes sitting,
Speaker 1: everybody was saying size six, so come on. I also
Speaker 1: didn't want to embarrass myself, so I just said size six.
Speaker 1: Turns out that I was size eight. So those are
Speaker 1: some of the descent clothes that we talk about about,
Speaker 1: the showing that even children that are coming from the
Speaker 1: most disadvantaged families can also participate confidently with them such
Speaker 1: systems as well. For the first time, I was not
Speaker 1: worried about being as get to leave the classroom because
Speaker 1: I had not paid school fees to go home and
Speaker 1: collect it, because that's the practice if you have not
Speaker 1: paid your ask it to go home and collected. I
Speaker 1: knew that she wasn't never there, so for the first time,
Speaker 1: I learned without fear. But I just also want to
Speaker 1: point out that there was a point during that phase
Speaker 1: in my life where there was a lot of guilt
Speaker 1: because when I was selected for support, I was one
Speaker 1: of the girls from my school, so it supported its
Speaker 1: twenty one inter secondary school from various schools. But I had,
Speaker 1: you know, failure colleagues from primary school that did not
Speaker 1: get the same chance, and I remember feeling very guilt
Speaker 1: and very tone that I had gotten the chance that
Speaker 1: they also you know, needed. But you know, I think
Speaker 1: some people call it Survivor Guild. But it's just as
Speaker 1: the heart breaking part of fate that when resources are
Speaker 1: limited and the first you have to select, and which
Speaker 1: is the crisis that we were facing with COVID right now,
Speaker 1: that there's just so much need. It's heart breaking. But
Speaker 1: I just want to be able to say that the
Speaker 1: community selected me, and yeah I am. I not only
Speaker 1: know what it means to be excluded at one point,
Speaker 1: but I also understand personally and intimately the potential that
Speaker 1: comes with that and just how much more you can
Speaker 1: do as an individual and as a collective. What kind
Speaker 1: of impact has CAMPED had on a village like the
Speaker 1: one you grew up in Zimbabwe? Has it supported other
Speaker 1: girls going to school from that same village and what
Speaker 1: other sort of effects does that have? So what it
Speaker 1: is meant is that you know, as we graduate through school,
Speaker 1: we also are very much anchored and inspired to do
Speaker 1: something within our community. So as I speak to you
Speaker 1: right now, as the first group of young women supported
Speaker 1: through school by CAMPED, we started what we call the
Speaker 1: Camford Association, which is a network of young women leaders
Speaker 1: that are paying it forward literally, So we one hundred
Speaker 1: seventy eight thousand members now and counting, and each of us,
Speaker 1: on average suppose three more girls to go to school.
Speaker 1: So you ask what has been the impact. The major
Speaker 1: impact has been, you know, the sustainability through the commitment
Speaker 1: by former beneficiaries or clients of Comfort to be able
Speaker 1: to support the next generation of children. So by one graduating,
Speaker 1: three more are graduating. So that's the phenomenal impact. And
Speaker 1: you you mentioned this feeling of survivor's guilt, which is
Speaker 1: quite understandable being someone who was supported in this way
Speaker 1: and a community where most people don't and most women,
Speaker 1: most girls don't have that opportunity. I wonder how people
Speaker 1: in the community do treat someone in your position, people
Speaker 1: in your family, people in the place you grew up.
Speaker 1: Was their envy, pride? What's the reaction to the girls
Speaker 1: who get this support and prosper and the way you
Speaker 1: have The beauty of the Comfort model is that it's
Speaker 1: very thought through. So just to say from from my part,
Speaker 1: the fact that the community itself identified me for support
Speaker 1: meant that there was the sense of ownership and the
Speaker 1: saints of pride that this is what we have enabled,
Speaker 1: and that means that girls are celebrated in the community.
Speaker 1: I can give you multiple examples where community members they
Speaker 1: have stepped up and assisted my mother in various ways
Speaker 1: to be able to make sure that I stayed in school,
Speaker 1: even with comfort support. Because one of the the things that
Speaker 1: we've learned as an organization is that it's not just
Speaker 1: about the financial means, it's also about the psychosocial support
Speaker 1: that children need to be able to stay in school.
Speaker 1: I was crying. I was weeping most of the time.
Speaker 1: I was really not in the classroom. And then I
Speaker 1: learned later that you need to decide how you use
Speaker 1: every opportunity you get. I started looking at this as
Speaker 1: an opportunity to do better by me and for the
Speaker 1: community that it trusted me, rather than feeling like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's okay for all of us to wallow in poverty
Speaker 1: and end like that. And the fact that these young
Speaker 1: women are coming back and supporting one average three other
Speaker 1: children were not even their relatives, continues to increase communal
Speaker 1: support for supporting more and more girls to go through this,
Speaker 1: because it's more like confidence become the gift that continues
Speaker 1: to give through what's enabled within every community. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: how much it costs to support a girl in school
Speaker 1: via camp fed. In Africa, it's actually basically just one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars per year for one year of
Speaker 1: supporting a girl through secondary school. That's the average cost
Speaker 1: for a year. So in the United States that sounds
Speaker 1: like nothing. And you've said you've supported nearly five million
Speaker 1: girls through school. What's the scale that you think the
Speaker 1: organization can achieve and what's the what's the ultimate goal
Speaker 1: is a parody between girls and boys. Our vision as
Speaker 1: an organization has always been a world in which each
Speaker 1: and every child is educated, protected, respected, valued, and girls
Speaker 1: up to ten the tide of poverty every child. And
Speaker 1: our strategic plan over the next five years is to
Speaker 1: support five million more girls through school. And I think
Speaker 1: you realize that. You know, we've supported close to five
Speaker 1: millions since nine to three, and we're going to support
Speaker 1: five millions in five years. That's ambitious. But we're also
Speaker 1: counting on the support of our Comfort Association with we're
Speaker 1: actually traveling the support that you know we're providing as
Speaker 1: an organization at the moment. So looking at forward to
Speaker 1: the end of the pandemic, do you think there is
Speaker 1: going to be a lasting deficit from that or do
Speaker 1: you think we will quickly get back to where we
Speaker 1: were before the pandemic. In relation to girls education in Africa,
Speaker 1: we need to pull up our songs in a very
Speaker 1: big way because the pandemic exposed, like I said earlier
Speaker 1: on the disparities and the system that we already knew existed,
Speaker 1: but they just exacerbated them. Do you think COVID sets
Speaker 1: back your call of girls education in Africa for a
Speaker 1: year or two and then we get back to where
Speaker 1: we were or is this something that sets us back
Speaker 1: a generation? Over ninety seven point four percent of our children,
Speaker 1: like of the girls that we're supporting, came back to school,
Speaker 1: returned to school. That's not true for the majority of
Speaker 1: other children who didn't have the same social support. So
Speaker 1: that's an area that we need to work on. We
Speaker 1: also need to address issues around, of course, teacher training,
Speaker 1: issues around ensuring that we continue to recognize that girl's
Speaker 1: exclusion is still an issue even after the pandemic. For me,
Speaker 1: it's you know, for us as an organization, it's continuous
Speaker 1: an ensuring that there's this pipeline of young people that
Speaker 1: continues to be supported and support the next generation too.
Speaker 1: You know, having fifty two million girls out of school
Speaker 1: in subsid and Africa is nowhere where we want to go.
Speaker 1: But I acknowledge the fact that this really set us
Speaker 1: back in terms of the progress that we've met. But
Speaker 1: then lessons that come from tragedy means that if we
Speaker 1: we have learned, and when I say we are then
Speaker 1: not just civil society and then the government, everybody who
Speaker 1: was working in education or in rise in climate every day.
Speaker 1: If we have learned, we should actually be able to
Speaker 1: expect diet our solutions to the crisis that we face.
Speaker 1: This should actually move us a head faster because we
Speaker 1: have learned that these are not hypothetical realities around things
Speaker 1: could get worse. They did get worse in a way
Speaker 1: that we all didn't think it would. We saw a
Speaker 1: lot of flight of people that basically just been planted
Speaker 1: into communities to be able to work with communities. Well
Speaker 1: COVID here people started leaving and local communities said to
Speaker 1: find their own foots. So if we've invest and built
Speaker 1: on our license around local engagement, local ownership of issues,
Speaker 1: local capacity building, but we also built on the opportunities
Speaker 1: that are through technology, I don't see a reason why
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be able to gallop further faster than we've
Speaker 1: done over the past few years. As you say, educating
Speaker 1: girls has so many positive effects on other problems. I
Speaker 1: think part of the reason you've camped has attracted so
Speaker 1: much high profile support. I note that Megan and Harry
Speaker 1: listed it as one of the charities they were supporting.
Speaker 1: Rihanna has been a supporter of yours. Nick Christoph, the
Speaker 1: New York Times columnist, at the end of the year
Speaker 1: make suggestions if what charities people should support, and a
Speaker 1: camp fed was at the top of his list this year.
Speaker 1: What you're doing is getting noticed. What else has to
Speaker 1: happen for your organization to be able to do as
Speaker 1: much as it's capable of doing, to scale its response. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll say to you what I said to a lot
Speaker 1: of people over the past year, particularly the work of
Speaker 1: COVID and everything. Continue to invest in girls education. You
Speaker 1: support me, I support three more. You know, that's the
Speaker 1: wealthy investment, right, That's the most important thing. Talk to
Speaker 1: your friends, talk to your colleagues and everything. The problem
Speaker 1: is real, but so is the solution. It's so simple
Speaker 1: and so straightforward. You live to tell a different narrative,
Speaker 1: and I look forward to that does your model have
Speaker 1: application beyond Africa or is the situation just too different
Speaker 1: in different parts of the world. My better World, which
Speaker 1: is the you know, the curriculum that have been used
Speaker 1: across the spectrum. They have been huge demand for it
Speaker 1: to be used beyond Africa because at the center of
Speaker 1: it is the principal accountability to the child, to the
Speaker 1: child's needs, to the child's reality, to the child's priority.
Speaker 1: How do we make the child the non negotiable component
Speaker 1: of our intervention? And I believe that's universally acceptable everywhere,
Speaker 1: but it's also messuring that this is done in total
Speaker 1: engagement and liaison of the community of the parents as
Speaker 1: equal partners, not just as mere recipients of aid. So
Speaker 1: I believe that this is applicable across the spectrum and
Speaker 1: it's replication a close Africa actually with speed and is
Speaker 1: it is also proved that Yeah, And you, as an educator,
Speaker 1: I know you think about what kinds of tools are
Speaker 1: going to get people to really understand the problem, not
Speaker 1: just past the test by knowing the facts, but really
Speaker 1: relate to it. And I wonder if they're books or
Speaker 1: movies or things that you would recommend to our listeners
Speaker 1: who want to really understand better what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I have a phenomenal resources that I could share. There
Speaker 1: is a film done quite recently by Iden like Why
Speaker 1: Ida m It was Hidden Pride for Education Development, which
Speaker 1: is revolutionizing how girls education is delivered. You can listen
Speaker 1: to that. It covers myself and Michaelague Lucy like as
Speaker 1: we talk about our work as well. That's something that
Speaker 1: we're listening to. There's Nick Christoph and Cherio's book Half
Speaker 1: the Sky, Turning Oppression into Opportunity for women worldwide. There's
Speaker 1: a chapter also that types of about my life and
Speaker 1: we're started from. But more than that, it also talks about,
Speaker 1: you know the fact that actually talent is universal opportunities not,
Speaker 1: so how do we make a difference. So I think
Speaker 1: that's that's really good. I also have a book that
Speaker 1: I really like that he helped me and my fellow sisters,
Speaker 1: like you know, the Confidate Association members, to understand our
Speaker 1: reality as we graduated from school. And it's a book
Speaker 1: by A Machia Sam Development as Freedom, because it talks
Speaker 1: about just you know, just that you know, development um
Speaker 1: is freedom. That's that's less that I never really perceived
Speaker 1: my life through and that's you know, that's what he
Speaker 1: helped us structure camera in a big way when we're
Speaker 1: just starting the Confidate Association in a big way, when
Speaker 1: we're just starting to look at ourselves as you know,
Speaker 1: how is this education widening our freedom as young women
Speaker 1: from patriarchical communities, as young women were the first in
Speaker 1: our communities to graduate. So I think that's another book
Speaker 1: that i'd recommend. And finally, Max and Molina talks about
Speaker 1: a gender justice Development and Rise. So there's an article
Speaker 1: that you know, she wrote in a book that I
Speaker 1: would recommend that you also read because it talks about
Speaker 1: power and how just opportunity also allows to challenge power
Speaker 1: is specific in various communities, and for me, this is
Speaker 1: also about gender justice. So I would say those are
Speaker 1: the four articles, but there's just so much to read
Speaker 1: out there. But I also just admit that some of
Speaker 1: the work I don't agree with around that talks about
Speaker 1: our culture as the reason why girls are not a school.
Speaker 1: Poverty is the culprit. You know, poverty continues to force
Speaker 1: coool solutions on parents, and I think that needs to
Speaker 1: be understood. So I would say look for articles that
Speaker 1: talk about that for me, the most important message that
Speaker 1: I just want to be able to reaterate is that
Speaker 1: girls education continues to be a problem, but it's and
Speaker 1: we can do something in this generation to make the
Speaker 1: world a beta place. You know, all the challenges that
Speaker 1: we face today, improved incomes for families we talk about
Speaker 1: climate action can be solved, you know, through investing in education.
Speaker 1: So I just want to be able to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's the most important area to invest in. Angie,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us Unsolvable. Thank you so much for this.
Speaker 1: I appreciate. Angeline Murramirawa is executive director of the Campaign
Speaker 1: for Female Education or camp SET. To learn more about
Speaker 1: access to education and the rest of the un sustainable
Speaker 1: development goals, please check out the links in our episode notes.
Speaker 1: Solvable Senior producer is Jocelyn Frank, Research and booking by
Speaker 1: Lisa Dunn. Catherine Girardell is our managing producer, and our
Speaker 1: executive producer is Mia Lobell. Solvable is a production of
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember to share, rate,
Speaker 1: and review us. It helps us get the word out.
Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin Podcast wherever you listen, including on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jacob Weisberg.