1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Body bats, but the Joseph's gotten more. I don't really 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: indulge in a lot of things, you know. I don't 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: go out and just kind of spend my money, particularly 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: for things for myself. But I know that there are 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: people that do do those sort of things. You know. 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: They go and go to a spa and get manicures 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: and pedicures and get their pores exfoliated or whatever it 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: is that they get done, mud bass saunas, and of 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: course the ever popular massage. And listen, I am not 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: a verse to a great massage. There's nothing like it, 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: particularly you know, at the hands of the woman you love, 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, And particularly after you 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: know you've been beat up by the world. You come home, 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: you get your shoulder shrub your feet rubbed, and most 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: of the time you don't really realize how vulnerable you are. 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: You don't realize that literally you're in the hands of 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: somebody that could alter the course of your life. I 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: bet most of us don't think about massages that way. 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: But today I am going to talk about one such massage, 20 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: a massage that not only wound up in a homicide, 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: but ultimately led to a decapitation I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 22 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: and this is body Bags Brother David. Seems like we've 23 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: been for some reason, I don't know why. It seems 24 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: like we've been talking about Las Vegas a lot lately. 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: Funny cases. Yeah, it is, you know, and for those 26 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: that haven't been to Las Vegas. I enjoy with Las Vegas. 27 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: I like it. I used to like it a lot 28 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: more when it you know, you could go out and 29 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: you could get a really good meal inexpensively. You know, 30 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. And shows and I like 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: to you know, as you say, I like to drop 32 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: a few coins in the One Armed Bandit's every now 33 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: and then. But you know, uh, it's not that big 34 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: of a place when you think about it. You know, yeah, 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: it's not. It's not like you know, some massive city, 36 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: you know when you think about places like you know, 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: La or New York or Houston. You know, and for 38 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: some reason, some reason, there's a lot of violence. You know. 39 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: We just did the thing and we're still waiting for 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: an update. By the way, to all our friends out 41 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: there about the cremains that you know, we've got three 42 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: hundred was it three hundred cremains out there and there's. 43 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: Been as well, the cremains of three hundred human beings. 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: Just you know what, it would have been so much 45 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: different if those cremains have been all just thrown together 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: and scattered or whatever, you know, and somebody kind of found. 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: That would be different than the way they were actually found, 48 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: like a sand castle on the beach by a kid. FYI, 49 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: you can go and find that. We did it last 50 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 2: week or before last anyway, Joe, this one, we're talking 51 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: about a former horn star who has an ex husband 52 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: that she has two children with, and he's a real 53 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: estate agent. She last worked. Okay, Devin Michaels actually was 54 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: a real estate agent as well. Last time she had 55 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: a job, and she had a couple of neat names 56 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: that she used, Nicki Fairchild, Tracy Saverez, Tracy spelled t 57 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: r a cee. You have to be creative when you're 58 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: making up your porn name. You know, you can't be like. 59 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: Listen, I don't understand. You know you're going to enter 60 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: into I don't know, dare say profession. I guess it 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: is the world's oldest profession. Be proud of it, man, 62 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: you be proud of it. Don't use a nom de Gere, 63 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, really really really just go for it, man, 64 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: just use that that name, that name that you're good. 65 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: Got to tell you, you know, you started off talking 66 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: about massagiest Joe, Yeah, and you started talking about by 67 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: somebody you love. And in this particular case, I was 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: trying to follow along with your line there, and I thought, well, 69 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: let's just spill the beans, because this is a person 70 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: by the name of Devin Michaels who has an ex 71 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: husband and by the way, she's accused of killing him 72 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: as he's moving back in to live with her and 73 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: their two daughters to raise them as a nuclear family. 74 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: But she's also going she's married to her step son, 75 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: her husband's son from a previous marriage. Wow, so you 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: have the triangle. You got the you got the Vegas 77 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: freeway going here, and you've got the husband who is 78 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: reconciling with his wife for the sake of raising their children, 79 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: their two girls, in a nuclear family, but his wife 80 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: is married to his son. And when all of this 81 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: came about, Joe, when it was discovered, now here's the 82 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: shocking part. You mentioned how if you're getting a massage, 83 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: how vulnerable you are. You know that never occurred to 84 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: me that really did not ever occur to me until 85 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: you said that. 86 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I gotta It just made 87 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: me think. There was something that popped up in the 88 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: news the other day and I had kind of a flashback, 89 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: and I did for a while I have flashbacks about 90 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: this case. And that was Jody Arius. I hate to 91 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: even say her name, but you know, she had gotten 92 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: Travis Alexander a very vulnerable position. Remember they had engaged 93 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: in sex all afternoon, they were nude, got him in 94 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: a shower, taking pictures of and all that sort of 95 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: thing she's got him. Isn't it weird how somebody that 96 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: is intent on doing something like this can have an 97 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: individual drop their guard, you know, and kind of you know, 98 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of like was a Samson and Delilah, you know, 99 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, the head resting in her lap, you know, 100 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: stroking his hair and that sort of thing, and outcomes 101 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: a knife, you know, off comes locks. You know. I 102 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if that's a good analogy 103 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: or not, but well, it's one of these things. 104 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in this case. You know, the thing is 105 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 2: is that she's accused of killing him. Now it's more 106 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: than just an accusation, and because Joe last year, Devin 107 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 2: Michaels actually leaded guilty to a second degree murder charge 108 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: and decided after admitting everything and that she didn't want 109 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 2: to go through with that, so she changed her plea 110 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: too not guilty and took it to trial after already 111 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: having been guaranteed a sentence of less than fifteen years. 112 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: And then she took it back to court. So that's 113 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: why they're in trial. That's actually why we've covered this story. 114 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: I say we in the other shows that we do, 115 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: this story has popped up a couple of times because 116 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: of that. You know, she pled it down. It was 117 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: all over and now it's back. I just won't go away. 118 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: But in this particular case, how did you do it, Devin? 119 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: How did you kill your husband? I was giving a 120 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: massage and I don't know what happened. I don't remember 121 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: hitting him. I don't remember, you know. That's how she started. 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: Joe. 123 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: Well, we've got a body here, a body. And by 124 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: the way, I gotta ask you about this, Joe, that 125 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: police found Jonathan Willett deceased with chemicals poured over his 126 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: body and no head. Now, his body was discovered by 127 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: his Mom. If you want to get even weirder, you know, 128 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: we already have the We already have the husband and 129 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: the wife and the step son who's married and he's 130 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: the ex husband, and the one in the middle is 131 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: on the right, and the one on the oppos an 132 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: all Night DJ and the one of his rear got drafted. 133 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: I'm not really sure where we are in a Johnny 134 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: Cash song. Yeah what happened, Joe? 135 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? Can we? I got to tell you, I I'd 136 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: love to drift back to this idea of of the 137 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: chemicals that when you know, the police first arrived and 138 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: this is in the wake of Mama finding it, you 139 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: imagine how horrible. This is, absolutely horrible. I got to 140 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: tell you I've actually seen the photo, oh, the photo 141 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: of his body. Yeah. Now, I'd covered it on I'm 142 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: not going to say which one, but I have covered 143 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: it on a couple of platforms, and I had access 144 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: to the image and and obviously it's this body is 145 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: without a head, and I could make out a certain 146 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: a few details. But one of the things that really 147 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: stood out to me, brother was the fact that he 148 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: had these kind of on the surface of his body. 149 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: He had these kind of black crusty looking spots, okay, 150 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: like where your chest would be, all right, And when 151 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: the EMTs arrived at the scene, and there's actually this 152 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: is kind of powerful. There's actually cop video, like the 153 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: body cam, and you can see one of the EMTs 154 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: standing at the bed and he's got his hand over 155 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: his face like this, and I'm for those I'm acting 156 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: like I'm on television with you guys right now, But 157 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: hand over the nose in the mouth. It's not I mean, 158 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: EMTs see everything, you know, They're not like a cop. 159 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: You know, EMTC things that will haunt your nightmares, all right, 160 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: and generally it's with the living. So it's not like 161 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: he's in shock. It's that the air was noxious in 162 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: this environment. It turns out that both bleach and ammonia 163 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: were mixed and they were poured over his body and 164 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: they actually stated that there was smoke or fume. Well 165 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: smoke is the way they're described it rising up from 166 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: the body. So you're talking about you're in an environment 167 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: with a noxious gas. Bleach is very very dangerous stuff, 168 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: particularly when mixed with ammonia, you know, and they're both 169 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: and this happens a lot because people will try to 170 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: really you know, really I'm doing air quotes really clean 171 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: an area. You know, you're gonna want your bleach, You're 172 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: gonna want you And those are common things that are 173 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: used to clean houses with. Well, you create a form 174 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: of chlorine gas. And I've actually, you know, Dave, I've 175 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: actually been in the midst of a spill in a 176 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: more going time where this happened, and it wasn't ammonia. 177 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: It was actually a form of formaldehyde that we have, 178 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: what's called formuline. We use it to preserve organs with 179 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: and there was bleach that was intermixed in this stuff 180 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: and it created that I couldn't breathe in this environment, 181 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: was burning my throat. So in an attempt to clean 182 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: up the scene, because this scene is markedly bloody, as 183 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: you can imagine, she's trying to apply this mixture apparently 184 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: either to clean the body or eradicate any evidence that 185 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: something has happened here. And you've got these individuals at 186 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: the scene, and this gives you an idea anytime you 187 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: have an EMS, a police, firefighter, whomever, walk onto a 188 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: scene that you never know what you're going to walk into, 189 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: because you're literally walking into the midst of somebody else's crazy. 190 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: Just keep that in mind. You're talking about a lady 191 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: who bought her own admission, has committed a murder, and 192 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: has in fact removed the head of the man that 193 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: is the father of her children, Dave. So I've wondered 194 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: about that. Hopefully, I hope that no one was permanently injured. 195 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure that some of them have without the head. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 196 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: the guy that didn't survive her. But you know, you've 197 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: got the mom that's in there, and you've got all 198 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: these public servants that are walking through this area. You know. 199 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: The thing about that gas, Dave, is that it will 200 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: literally burn the mucoid lining of of your throat, your airway, 201 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: and if it gets into your lungs and really create 202 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: a problem. So it gives you the idea. And we 203 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: see this a lot with these kind of cases where 204 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: people get in midstream and they're doing something horrible like this, 205 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: and they don't know what they're doing. But what we 206 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: do know is that confusion and evil rules. 207 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: A day, Brother, David. 208 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: I didn't know if I was going to tell you 209 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: about the image, but I felt like I needed to 210 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: just let you know that I had seen it. And 211 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: it appears to me because the image was kind of 212 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: Have you seen these images that are sent to you 213 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: every now and then, and they're like second and kind 214 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: of third generation images, you know, they're they're kind of digitized. 215 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: It's hard to fully appreciate. Oh yeah, you know a 216 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of details. It's not like the stuff that we 217 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: take at autopsy or at crime scenes where you've got 218 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: this uber clarity with it. But I could sworn, I 219 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: could have sworn that I could see a portion of 220 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: his spine, you know, when you're looking literally at the 221 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: point where his head was separated from his body, and 222 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of fascinating. I'm actually teaching a course right 223 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: now at jack State in Clandestine Graves, and we're literally 224 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: in the last week of class right now. I'm so thankful. 225 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: Well literally, it's been a long semester and we're doing 226 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: one of our favorite topics right now. We're talking about 227 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: dismemberment and all these sorts of things and what people 228 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: do with bodies, you know, and how they deposit them. 229 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: And you see this many times kind of acted out 230 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: or portrayed, where people will use whatever tools are at 231 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: their disposal and the evidence is left behind. Many times, 232 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: the evidence is left behind in the form of like bone, 233 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: dust or you know, tissue. And in this case, Dave, 234 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: you would not believe how much blood was left behind 235 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: because his body. Just so you know, if folks at 236 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: home will imagine you're laying on a bed with your 237 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: shoulder blades touching the mattress, okay, and the mattress is 238 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: kind of bear beneath you and your head if in 239 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: this case, if this gentleman still had his head would 240 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: be hanging off of the side of the bed. So 241 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: it's like in a position. And please remind me to 242 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: tell to tell our friends about the position itself, because 243 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: it's something we actually use at autopsy. His head is 244 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: laying off the bed, and Dave, the mattress itself is 245 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: just like super saturated in blood. And then you can 246 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: see the carpet, it's surface beneath it, it's super saturated. 247 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: And folks will ask as many times, well, how much 248 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: blood was there? The problem, yeah, all of it, thank you. 249 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: The problem is is that you can't measure that. You 250 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: can't measure it because it's like, you know, how how 251 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: would you measure the volume of blood in a mattress? Okay, 252 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: Because it's it's literally soaked through. You could never extricate 253 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: it from there and then put it in a vial. 254 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: And one of the terms and this is actually what 255 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: wound up being his cause of death day, it's it's 256 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: non specific homicidal violence. You know, you know that, you 257 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: know that, you know that there has been a homicide 258 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: committed here. Obviously you've got a headless body. There's a 259 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: copious amount of blood. And here's what most of the 260 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: time pathologists will say. They will say that the amount 261 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: of blood that you can see at the scene is 262 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: actually incompatible with life, right, and it's because it's super saturated. 263 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: And as you get down to the carpet, you look 264 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: at the carpet there. As we know, if you have 265 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: carpet floors, unless you've really skimped and didn't spend your money, 266 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: you're going to have a pad, a carpet pad beneath 267 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: the actual carpet. So it's literally going to soak through 268 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: all those stuff. It would be an impossible feat to 269 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: measure all of that volume blood that came out of 270 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: this guy's bed, this guy's body. 271 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: You know, as you are saying that, I'm thinking about 272 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: this poor guy's mom you know victim here, Jonathan will 273 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: It and his think about this as somebody who is 274 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: the mother of two of your children that is accused 275 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: of doing this, Devin might Now I want to back 276 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: up to the morning of August seventh, at about eight 277 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: forty in the morning, the police in Henderson, Nevada, get 278 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: a call from a woman stating she found her son, 279 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 2: Jonathan Willet in his bed and she believed that he 280 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: was dead. Now, you know the condition of the body, 281 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: you know what she saw, but she could not bring 282 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: herself to say what she actually saw, so I believe 283 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: he's dead. Now officers arrive and I pulled the police 284 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 2: report because I wanted to see how they described it. 285 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 3: And you know what, Joe. 286 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: They discovered that his head had been severed from his 287 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: body and was not in the room. They also smelled 288 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: those chemicals bleach and ammonia, and in the police report 289 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: says they believed those chemicals had been applied to the 290 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: body because smoke was rising from the body. Now the 291 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 2: body's wrapped in plastic or cloth and in bed, and 292 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of this poor mother. Now she's got this 293 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: body of her son without a head. Yeah, and she 294 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: has to call for help, and she then describes because 295 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: now she's got to sit down with cops because it's 296 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: her house and she has to describe what's been happening here, 297 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: because hey, man, you called us, you're the finder. We're 298 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: looking at you first. Oh yeah, and that's when she 299 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 2: starts describing mister Jonathan Willett's ex wife, the mother of 300 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: his two daughters, and that she's The last time she 301 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 2: saw her son was at ten o'clock the night before, 302 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 2: and about one o'clock in the morning, she hears Devin 303 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 2: washing dishes in the kitchen, so she goes and hey, 304 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: what's going on? Just washing dish? She goes, oh, yeah, 305 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: I put Jonathan to bed. He's drunk. We're going to 306 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 2: leave early in the morning. Don't worry about us. We 307 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: got to register of the girls for school. And so 308 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: Mom's like, okay, goes back. At three o'clock in the morning, 309 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 2: she hears dogs barking. It's like, what the heck, but 310 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 2: she doesn't go check on it because well, you know, 311 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: goes back to sleep, and it's then at eight forty 312 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: when she finally goes down and finds the body. So 313 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 2: we kind of have a timetable of when it probably 314 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: happened it, say, ten pm to one am basically in 315 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: that time period. Otherwise you've got Devin Michael's washing her 316 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: hands with the dishes, assuming she's washing blood, because as 317 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: you have explained on many occasions, trying to dismember a 318 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 2: body is a big undertaking, and in this case, she 319 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: told police she's giving him a massage and hits him 320 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 2: with a candlestick type object. Now, Joe, how quickly if 321 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: you're laying there and I'm assuming laying face down on 322 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 2: a table bed whatever, right, and you're getting a massage, 323 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: you're kind of relaxed, your guard is down, and then 324 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: you get hit on the head. How many times is 325 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,239 Speaker 2: your melon going to get whacked before you're really not 326 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: able to respond physically? 327 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: You know that's going to be very much depended depended upon, 328 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: for off, the force that's applied by the subject that's 329 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: wielding the instrument, also the weight of the instrument. You know, 330 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: how much force can they deliver, and of course that 331 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: force is going to be translated into the object flying 332 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: through the air. And then if the if it's if 333 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: it's like if you I don't know, do you remember 334 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: Pier one? Pier one shops. If you go in like 335 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: an old pier One shop, and do you remember they 336 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: used to have all the stuff from like they'd have 337 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: stuff from India and the Far East, you know, And 338 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: I always felt like it was probably made in like, 339 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, Hoboken, New Jersey or something. It really wasn't 340 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: from those locations anyway. They've got candlesticks, right or or 341 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: candle holders. How heavy could one of those things be? 342 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: So my thought is unless it's something that weighed, like 343 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: the weight would have to be measured in pounds as 344 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: opposed to ounces, you know, like a baseball bat, it 345 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: would have to have significant weight for it to be 346 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: a single strike. I think that she would have had 347 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: to have hit him, probably multiple times. Here's another interesting 348 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: thing about blunt force trauma, Dave, is that let's just say, 349 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: for instance, you have some weirdo kind of candle holder 350 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: or something like this. It's got these like real prominent 351 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: edges to it. Well, now that that structure is now 352 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: part of it goes to the lethality of this thing. 353 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: So if it's got like a protuberance on the side 354 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: of it, and it's got weight behind it, and that 355 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: protuberance is being driven down like a point, like a 356 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: metal point, and you can penetrate the cranial vault with it. 357 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: One strike might do it, but it's hard to imagine 358 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: that a single strike is going to kill this guy, 359 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: even if he's laid out. So my question is, and 360 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: I think that this is one of the big mysteries 361 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: surrounding this Dave. First off, they don't have a weapon 362 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: and they ain't got a head. So how are you 363 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: going to how are you going to arrive at any 364 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of scientific conclusion, you know, about what actually happened 365 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: or how it actually went down, because you know, one 366 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: of the things that we do in the Morgue day 367 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: is to try to understand understand the dynamics of the 368 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: event that led up, you know, the fatal event. How 369 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: energy is transferred from say, for instance, either firearm into 370 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: the body of a victim that shot, or from the 371 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: hand and the arm of the perpetray that's wielding the instrument, 372 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: or the shape of the instrument like a knife. You 373 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: have to try to understand all of that to kind 374 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: of get an idea of how many strikes did it 375 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: take and also how long did they live because depended 376 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: upon upon the degree of the injury itself, you can 377 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: get an idea of well, what was damaged within within 378 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: the skull, what areas of the brain were impacted, and 379 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: were there any specific vessels that were disrupted. And also, 380 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, I'd mentioned just a moment ago, and I 381 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: think this is kind of fascinating the amount of blood 382 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: that you have there. How much of that blood was 383 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: actually from the event of him being struck or how 384 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: much of it was the postmortem flow relative to his 385 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: head being removed from his shoulders. When I saw this 386 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: guy's body, you know, the first thing I thought about 387 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: is in the morgue. One of the things that we do, 388 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: and I don't know folks are aware of this, but 389 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: I'm going ahead and tell you. Did you know that 390 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: we block the bodies And what that means is that 391 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: there is a rubber We call it a block, but 392 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: there is a rubber rubber device that we use, and 393 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: it's got four points on it and it's real heavy rubber, 394 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: and we can either and it's got two aspects to it. 395 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: You can flip it over and put it under the 396 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: neck and it holds the neck in place so that 397 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: we can literally open the head. You can flip it 398 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: over and it's got these four points that look like 399 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: the legs of a table, and you can stand it 400 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: up on the little legs and then put it directly 401 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: beneath the shoulder blades, and it does what it's called 402 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: hyper extends the body. So when you hyper extend the 403 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: body and you make that initial incision into the chest, 404 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: the chest literally opens up so that you can see everything. 405 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: You can see all of the all of the viscera, 406 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: the organ groups, everything, you can fully appreciate it. I 407 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: got to tell you, I got to tell you when 408 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: I was looking at his body, she had actually, in 409 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: her own way, hyper extended his body off the edge 410 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: of that bed so she could get access to his neck. 411 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 4: David, Oh my god, I know, so that she could 412 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 4: get access to his neck, because that, you know, if 413 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 4: you think about, just think about, just think about with 414 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 4: your head and everybody's done it. 415 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: At some point in time, with your head laying off 416 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: the back, off the side of the bed, your neck 417 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of bulges up like this and your shoulders kind 418 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: of contract a bit, and so it literally opens up 419 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: this area on the antier or the front of the neck, 420 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: so that you can get access to that area if 421 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: you want to use a sharp instrument on it, and somehow, 422 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: some way she thought that this was the best way 423 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: to do it. I got to tell you, if I 424 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: didn't have a block like I have in the morgue, 425 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: and I was interested in trying to remove somebody's head, 426 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, that might be the road I 427 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: was going to go down. And it's like instinctively she 428 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: knew how to do that, you know, back a few 429 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: years ago. I think it was actually twenty eighteen, I 430 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: actually covered this trial live on air. I was on 431 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: Long Crime Network. And I don't know if you remember 432 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: Judge Scanderto. He had been a judge. I think it 433 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: was in Michigan and he had moved to Florida, and 434 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: he had moved to Florida and he was down there 435 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: and kept company with his son who also lived down there. 436 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: The son was an attorney, had a drug problem. Turns 437 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: out that this elderly, elderly judge had a drug problem 438 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: as well, if you can imagine this, And anyway, story 439 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: went that they thought the son had killed the dad, 440 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: but what had happened was apparently the judge, this elderly 441 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: judge had a cardiac arrest that was probably brought on 442 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: by all things, Dave, cocaine usage. So he's doing below 443 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: with his son, and the son panics, all right, he's 444 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: got the drug. I think he probably had the drug 445 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: paranoia thing going on. Decides to get out, go to 446 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: the shed and get and get some sharp some sharp instruments. 447 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: Cut dad's head off. And they've still to this very day, 448 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: they still have yet to have found this father's head. Wow. 449 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: And there was like a retention you know how in 450 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: Florida they have all these retention ponds, all like part 451 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: complexes and all that stuff, and it me his body 452 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: was found like and they've still to this day they've 453 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: never found his head. Think about it. There's all kinds 454 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: of creepy crawlies in those retention problems in Florida. There's 455 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: no telling where the guy's head actually wound up. But 456 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: the sun was not. He was not found guilty of 457 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: a homicide, but he was found guilty of, you know, 458 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: like abusing a corps. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. But 459 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: with this case, we've we've got a bona fide homicide here, 460 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: Dave and. 461 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: Somebody missing head. Right, Yes, you admitted doing it, saying 462 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: she hit him over the head. Now, there was something 463 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: kind of telling in her statement to believe. She said 464 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 2: that she hit him with a candlestick like object, and 465 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: that told me it was a heavy object. I don't 466 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: know why that's what I thought, but you know, something 467 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: that long heavy and hit him. And she said that 468 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: she hit him and his arms stopped moving, right, And 469 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: I started thinking, well, okay, she hit him, because that 470 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: was that's a pretty dramatic thing. He's not struggling, He's 471 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: not like she didn't hit him and he struggled, you know, 472 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: she didn't hit him a little bit and he fought back. 473 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: She hit him and his armed stopped moving. Is there 474 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: a place you can hit somebody on the head that 475 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: would bring them right away like that? 476 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, yeah, particularly Okay, let's just say, and this 477 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: is just my opinion, there's a reason like when you 478 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: have these you know kind of you think about people 479 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: that are publicly executed, right or not publicly, you know, 480 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: when you have like mass executions and they shoot people 481 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: in the back of the head or like you know 482 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: the scene, you know, leave the gun and take the 483 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: Canoli's and Godfather shot in the back of the head, right, 484 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: that's pollie. Was that Paulie. I think it was Polly 485 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: that was shot. Yeah, Polly was shot. Yeah, Polli was shot. 486 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: And so there's a reason because back there, in that 487 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: particular kular or posterior region of the brain, you're controlling 488 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: motor functions back there, and so I would say that, yeah, 489 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: I think that that that would be possible. But it's 490 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: fascinating the statement that she would make that he stopped 491 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: moving his arms. So why was he moving his arms 492 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: in the beginning? Was she actually in a struggle with him? 493 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: And she grabs the scene and brains him with it. 494 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: By the way, I love the fact that you use 495 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: that term. I haven't heard that term in years. Uh. 496 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: And she brains him with that, Yeah, you're you're right, 497 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: he's he's his arms are not going to move him. 498 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: The question is is that did she kill him with 499 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 1: that blow or did she just knock him unconscious? And 500 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: this is something else I've never had an opportunity to, 501 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, kind of tell people this on one of 502 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: these episodes. Have you ever seen in the old the 503 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: old pictures, somebody will will take a pistol in some 504 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: kind of movie and they like walk up behind somebody 505 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: and strike somebody in the back of the head and 506 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: they automatically drop. It's like a theater device, you know. Yeah, 507 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: it generally doesn't work that way. There's an awareness you've 508 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: been struck. It's like what you do man, you know 509 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: like that, and you I guess there are those those times, 510 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: particularly if you've got the right instrument, you could hit 511 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: somebody hard enough that you would kill them instantly. The 512 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: line's share of people that you hit in the head 513 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: are going to be aware that they've been hit and 514 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: they're going to start to fight. And I really wonder 515 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: if that might be what happened here. But I keep 516 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: going back to this day. This is we've covered so 517 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: many this memory cases. I've never I don't think you 518 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: and I have worked one or covered one where someone 519 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: has taken the head and they've just they you know, 520 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: exit stage left, you know, with the head and it's gone. 521 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: I really tried to think this through because what they're 522 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: saying about this case is they don't have an instrument. 523 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: That's what she said she used, and we don't have 524 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: a head, right, So. 525 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: There's some John R. Vidy consider too, Joe, because see 526 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: he was living at home with his mom. Jonathan will 527 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: it was yeah, his wife, Devin was living with their 528 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 2: two daughters and her husband, her ex husband, step son, 529 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 2: her step son. Okay, now they're living together, she tells police. 530 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: It's an insurance thing. We're not really married, like in 531 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 2: love married. It's an insurance thing. It's the only reason. 532 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,239 Speaker 2: And of course they saw through that pretty quickly. You know, 533 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: that broke down. So she's having a sexual affair with 534 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: her step son, which by the way, began when she 535 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: was living as husband and wife with having two children 536 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: with her husband, the father of her boyfriend. She's doing 537 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 2: both of them at the same time. Dad and her 538 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: step son. Now what happened is this Devon and Jonathan. 539 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 2: They broke up. Devon and her stepson moved in together, 540 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: and and Jonathan decided to live back together a husband 541 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 2: and wife and raise their children together. But her stepson, 542 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: her husband, her ex husband son, he's not happy about 543 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: that because he and his dad are not on great terms. 544 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: And so really, I can't. 545 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: And I want to be very careful here because when 546 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: you when you look at a case like this, there 547 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 2: are so many horrible I think about the mom finding 548 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: her son's body, you know, I think about that, I 549 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 2: think about these two daughters now who have to grow 550 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: up knowing that our mom killed our dad and she 551 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: was in a relationship with our brother alf brother. 552 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah see that. Yeah, oh yeah. 553 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 2: So anyway, through all of that, they never found the head. 554 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: But what happened is while the police are talking to her, 555 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 2: they hook her up to polygraph because they were like, 556 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: what was why were you there at the house? Where 557 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: were you headed? And you know, Jonathan was going to 558 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 2: move back into the home she shared with his son 559 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 2: and their daughters, and she decided she wanted it generally 560 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 2: kill him. 561 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 3: She just wanted to hurt him. 562 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 2: Enough to go in the hospital to buy her a 563 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: few extra days to try to get things smoothed over 564 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 2: at home with her boyfriend or his son so they 565 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 2: could all live together. That was her plan, just get 566 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 2: him in the hospital so he's out of my way 567 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: for a little while, because he was planning on moving 568 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 2: into their house together right then and it was too fast. 569 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 2: She didn't want that. So they couldn't find his head. 570 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: They hook her up the polygraph. They're asked all these 571 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: questions and it's during one of these questions that they 572 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 2: actually see the needles jump. Okay, now, when they're asking 573 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 2: you questions on a polygraph and you have his significant reaction, 574 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 2: they know something's up. I'm not saying polygraph for one 575 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 2: hundred percent accurate, but they're probably ninety percent accurate. And 576 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 2: when you have a severe reaction, they know they're onto something. 577 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 2: And the reason they were onto something is they found 578 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: Jonathan Willett, the dead man with no head, is wallet, keys, 579 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 2: sell security card, and his phone with his blood on 580 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 2: it at Devin Michael's home. And her significant reaction was 581 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 2: when they asked her if she participated in the death 582 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: of Jonathan Willett, and there was something that happened during 583 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 2: one of other interviews with Police Joe. During that first interview, 584 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 2: they asked her what happened, and she said, well, there's 585 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 2: this trash truck that was backing up and it just 586 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 2: picked up tracks. You have a beeping noise when the trash. 587 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 3: Trucks backing up, peep peep peep, and. 588 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 2: She looks at the truck out the window and goes, yeah, 589 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 2: got it, then went bye bye. She said that to 590 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: the police as the trash truck, so they figured she 591 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 2: put her head in the trash can, put his head 592 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 2: in the trash can, and then threw it away. 593 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that she actually spirited the head out 594 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: of the house, like in a basket or something, and essentially, 595 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, dumps the head into a 596 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: trash receptacle. And you know that the truck is always 597 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: it's like magic. The truck is always going to come 598 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: by and pick up anything. And here's the problem. They 599 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: probably know where the head is, but that head wound 600 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: up in a landfill. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 601 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: is body Bags.