Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm joined by my good buddy and co host Dirck Durham.
Speaker 1: Oh hey, there, how you doing so? I think it
Speaker 1: was just we just turned into twenty twenty five and
Speaker 1: it didn't take very long for the Elk cunning world
Speaker 1: to be kind of shook up by a post from
Speaker 1: our good buddy Paul Brooks. And I consider him a
Speaker 1: good friend. You know, we used to build them turkey
Speaker 1: calls back in the day and work with them. When
Speaker 1: we talk with them, we're cordial with them. But I
Speaker 1: do with the direction we're going, I do want to
Speaker 1: make he does, you know, run a call company or
Speaker 1: help work for a call company? So I just want
Speaker 1: to put all out there. I want this to be
Speaker 1: a normal conversation with all the facts light out there.
Speaker 1: But he made a post. I believe it was on
Speaker 1: February second. I woke up and I couldn't turn on
Speaker 1: I shouldn't. People are gonna judge me, But I flicked
Speaker 1: the Facebook a post about a big giant bowl. I
Speaker 1: flip over to Instagram just because I'm look, you know,
Speaker 1: oh there's another bolt flipped the TikTok. Somehow it's there.
Speaker 1: I you know, you couldn't go anywhere on February second
Speaker 1: without seeing January's post or yeah, excuse me, January second,
Speaker 1: you couldn't. You couldn't go anywhere without seeing a post
Speaker 1: or text messages like if it wasn't for social like
Speaker 1: I didn't have to do anything because I was getting,
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of texts. You know what do I know?
Speaker 1: Where was it killed? Was it Washington? You know, the
Speaker 1: list goes on and on. So we want to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about this world record potential, I would
Speaker 1: say potential world record out that was recently killed in
Speaker 1: the state of Washington by Casey Brooks Bo's dad. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've known Casey since I've ever started this.
Speaker 1: I can remember being a little, a little dummy working
Speaker 1: out of the corner of Corey Miller's booth down there
Speaker 1: at Portland, and a guy came up and I'd had
Speaker 1: my magazine article, you know, my my three seventy Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: and it started asking me, and we had a little
Speaker 1: conversation and went back and and Corey's that you know
Speaker 1: who that was? I said, don't have a clue who
Speaker 1: that was, you know, And ended up being Casey Brooks
Speaker 1: and we were talking about about big Elk and wear,
Speaker 1: and so we've known him for a long time and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to wanted to you know, we we
Speaker 1: battle this a little bit behind the scenes, like I
Speaker 1: want to be one hundred percent transparent in this podcast.
Speaker 1: Me and Dirt have the means, we have the funds
Speaker 1: within our company. We we buy tags at times, right
Speaker 1: either landowner tags, outfit or tags. And so I just
Speaker 1: want to open this wide open and just talk about
Speaker 1: all the all the pieces of it. But so Bow
Speaker 1: makes a post on January second about the bowl, does
Speaker 1: a write up about his dad and some of his accomplishments,
Speaker 1: and then like anything that's big or or you know,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of jaw dropping. You know, I'll kind
Speaker 1: of ows you it wasn't very long, what a day
Speaker 1: or two. And then the the uh, the opposite, you know,
Speaker 1: the the naysayers, the people that had something to throw,
Speaker 1: you know, try to try to put chinks in the
Speaker 1: armor and break the story apart.
Speaker 2: I almost feel like if you shoot a three hundred
Speaker 2: inch bull, people start just throwing rocks like oh, it
Speaker 2: must be nice to hunt private land or whatever I mean.
Speaker 2: And then this thing is you know, potentially a three
Speaker 2: or a four hundred and eighty inch bull in that score,
Speaker 2: so you know there's lots of lots of crap being thrown.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, not to this. I don't want
Speaker 1: to make this story about myself. But that same three
Speaker 1: seventy bowl, I killed it and then had a trip
Speaker 1: immediately to the Bob Marshall. So I killed it around home,
Speaker 1: got the tax nermous and then like two days later
Speaker 1: took off. Well, my good buddy John Davis was my
Speaker 1: guide there on that hunt and in Montana, Yeah, in Montana,
Speaker 1: and he started to ask me, you know, we're good friends,
Speaker 1: but he was just my guide. He was working for
Speaker 1: an outfitter and that's how he booked the hunt, and
Speaker 1: he had killed a couple three fifty tight bowls in
Speaker 1: that same area. And He's like, so of the stories
Speaker 1: happened yet, And I'm like, oh no, it's just been
Speaker 1: squeaky clean, Like no, you know, just I killed a
Speaker 1: big good Yeah. I get home and I killed it
Speaker 1: at night. I killed it using my work key at
Speaker 1: the time, I worked for the DNR. I killed it
Speaker 1: on this area. I drove my truck into a walk
Speaker 1: in and by the time I was done, I was
Speaker 1: fighting with the entire internet over like where it was killed,
Speaker 1: how it was killed, you know, and it was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's crazy. So like anything, you know,
Speaker 1: at that time, I think it was a number two
Speaker 1: bowl in the state. So there's just like controversy and
Speaker 1: and I think people by nature are jealous. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we just wanted to kind of to jump into that
Speaker 1: and and talk about kind of all sides and then
Speaker 1: in my opinion, our opinion kind of like make it
Speaker 1: go full circle and and maybe say what we think,
Speaker 1: you know, why there was so much you know, either
Speaker 1: jealousy or frustration you know, with the bowl, And we'll
Speaker 1: kind of save that for the end. So one thing
Speaker 1: that that like maybe a question that that encompasses this
Speaker 1: whole whole ordeal. And and somebody started to post, you know,
Speaker 1: when the naysayers start coming out, they're like, so you
Speaker 1: to tell me if you had the same means you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be doing the same thing. And I'm curious how
Speaker 1: you would answer that, would you if you had And
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into the financial stuff and not later,
Speaker 1: but like if you had the ability and it meant
Speaker 1: the same to your checkbook and you had the ability,
Speaker 1: would you go hunt this bowl? Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would go hunt that bowl. Now, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of speculation on where and how this bowl was killed,
Speaker 2: and may or may not agree with that, and it
Speaker 2: may not really serve the way I want to hunt
Speaker 2: and elk, but I would definitely try to take advantage
Speaker 2: of the way he got that tag if I had
Speaker 2: those means, absolutely, because I love elk hunting right and
Speaker 2: I feel like anybody who who loves elk hunting with
Speaker 2: the amount of passion that you and I both have,
Speaker 2: if you have the means to like hunt elk all
Speaker 2: the time, really really really really big elk why, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't think there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: who would say, Nope, nope, I I'd rather go try
Speaker 2: to shoot five points every season instead of being able
Speaker 2: to go hunt some crazy places. You know, they'd rather,
Speaker 2: you know, fight off, fight off the Orange Army, per se.
Speaker 2: You know, there's just public Land has got a lot
Speaker 2: of folks on a hunting and it's hard, it's a grind.
Speaker 2: And then if if you have that amount of means,
Speaker 2: you know, financially to go hunt let's say the most
Speaker 2: premium Indian reservations or these these governor tags, raffle tags whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, you're not competing with a whole lot of
Speaker 2: other hunters. You know, there's you know, you're gonna be
Speaker 2: on public land a lot of times, but you're you're
Speaker 2: not fighting the crowds. So and then you just have
Speaker 2: the opportunity to see big, giant, mature animals. And and
Speaker 2: I think I think all of us would would be
Speaker 2: okay with or would want to go do that if
Speaker 2: you have the means. I mean, that's that's my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've got a little different answer. And and
Speaker 1: we've talked about this, you know before, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: want to say no, And we're going to get into
Speaker 1: some more of the facts, which it may make more
Speaker 1: sense when you come and look at this question. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't let me rephrase that. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're facts. I have seen pictures and videos of where
Speaker 1: this bowl was at prior, but I don't know, you
Speaker 1: know that they're factual or you know, around the whole situation.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if I would. It doesn't like
Speaker 1: for me, I get excited about killing a four point buck,
Speaker 1: you know, way up on the mountain as far from
Speaker 1: the stinking side by side as I can. For some reason,
Speaker 1: you know, we're five mile hiking. I don't know why
Speaker 1: right now. And that's where I love. That's why I
Speaker 1: love hunting, like it can be something different for everybody.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't have to be defined as one thing.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. You know, what gets one guy excited doesn't
Speaker 1: get the other guy excided, which is great because I
Speaker 1: think it keeps us all spread out hunting different ways.
Speaker 1: But like for me, hunting, I want to I want
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying there wasn't a lenge. I guess
Speaker 1: this is where there's gonna be a lot of because
Speaker 1: I don't know the whole story. I want, like I
Speaker 1: want like a physical challenge, and I don't know why
Speaker 1: it's turned into that. For me, I want to feel
Speaker 1: like I beat you know, the animal in its own
Speaker 1: like at its best, I guess, right, And so for me, yeah, like, well,
Speaker 1: I will say wintering wintering animals like a buck that's
Speaker 1: lived his whole life in the cemetery. You know, it
Speaker 1: seems like cemeteries attracted you know, golf courses, but like
Speaker 1: walking out on like whole nine and shooting the biggest
Speaker 1: buck that's ever lived, just like well versus if I
Speaker 1: could take that buck and like where you know the
Speaker 1: famous Popeye, the forty inch buck that David Long, you know,
Speaker 1: like because you would disappear, nobody can ever find him
Speaker 1: in his high country, but like winter range, they would
Speaker 1: find him. And I'm like, it's almost like killing two
Speaker 1: different animals, right, Like the one up in the high
Speaker 1: country would be different. But when he's forced to come
Speaker 1: down in the sage brush, like man, I just at
Speaker 1: that point love to look at him. I'm probably getting
Speaker 1: ahead of myself here, but.
Speaker 2: Well, no, and I agree with that. Like I'm not
Speaker 2: saying I would want to go hunt these things, these
Speaker 2: these elk or deer in their most vulnerable places, Like
Speaker 2: if I would be able to get that tag, I'd
Speaker 2: love to be able to search the high country for them,
Speaker 2: or you know where they're spending their septembers in October
Speaker 2: is now if they migrate out. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 2: a completely different conversation and thought process. But I will say, though,
Speaker 2: I back to your point of like getting excited to
Speaker 2: shoot a four point in the middle of nowhere public land,
Speaker 2: I agree one hundred percent with you. I do love that.
Speaker 2: I kind of made the comment about five points. I
Speaker 2: will say like some years I've had, like, for instance,
Speaker 2: like a landowner tag in New Mexico and I had,
Speaker 2: you know, elk hunt in Idaho and whatever, so on
Speaker 2: and so forth. But the most excited on those years
Speaker 2: I've ever you know, of the hunts, I've been excited
Speaker 2: to go on or back to my just my, my, my
Speaker 2: Idaho public land whatever middle of nowhere, probably one of
Speaker 2: the most wolf infested units in Idaho. I kind of
Speaker 2: look forward to that the most. I feel like it's
Speaker 2: like you're you're really like success there gives you the
Speaker 2: best feel goods, you know. It's like, man, I worked hard,
Speaker 2: and I really figured this out. And it's funny. My
Speaker 2: wife like the first time I had a New Mexico
Speaker 2: outfit or tag to where we could I wasn't outfit
Speaker 2: land inner tag. My wife's like, well, if you should
Speaker 2: a really big one, you can't get it mounted and
Speaker 2: put in the house. That's cheating. My wife said this,
Speaker 2: that's cheating. But if you kill one up, you know
Speaker 2: in Idaho, you know, then then you can get that
Speaker 2: one head mounted. And I'm like hey, now hold on, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, your your wife's now the judge of what
Speaker 1: what counts as a trophy and not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you know, she always keeps me grounded.
Speaker 2: But but I will say that that was that was
Speaker 2: a kind of a funny, funny thought process. But like
Speaker 2: I was always like, oh, I almost I almost feel
Speaker 2: like you're right there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, it's it's weird. And I walk in
Speaker 1: my house, you know, I get to look at some
Speaker 1: of the mounts, and there there's the Mount Emily bowl
Speaker 1: that Whep me and you killed together, you know, with
Speaker 1: the rightfle and it's a great bull. It's the one
Speaker 1: over the fireplace. I'm like, that's big. But I turned
Speaker 1: to my right and it's the bowl I killed Mountain
Speaker 1: View in Washington. That's similar size, a little bit smaller.
Speaker 1: But I for some reason in my head, that one's
Speaker 1: it holds a little bit. It doesn't have the asterisk
Speaker 1: next to it because I drew it through the special permits. Right,
Speaker 1: it was still a similar season, limited number of hunters.
Speaker 1: I still had the same advantage. But for some reason,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, at least I didn't have to like
Speaker 1: pay for the opportunity, Like I literally drew a twelve
Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cent you know tag, just out of
Speaker 1: the random draw. So I don't know why. In my
Speaker 1: head it's just something like, yeah, get paid for that one.
Speaker 1: You know, you got this one the regular way. But
Speaker 1: in the reality, the elk had the same chance. I
Speaker 1: had the same chance, Like it was no different of
Speaker 1: an advantage. Besides, I probably wouldn't have got the Emily tag.
Speaker 1: Well I know I wouldn't have got the Emily take.
Speaker 1: I don't have any points, you know, to get it
Speaker 1: any other way. So it just, yeah, there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of like these special tags. You know, we've we've
Speaker 1: got to hunt New Mexico a little bit on landowner tags.
Speaker 1: We've got to hunt, you know, Colorado. Back in the day,
Speaker 1: I would buy a few deer landowner tags and it's
Speaker 1: still awesome and I love to do it. And I
Speaker 1: would be a liar if I said I I didn't
Speaker 1: love those, and I would still do it because I
Speaker 1: love to just be out there and hunt. But I
Speaker 1: haven't got what I would consider like these super special tags. Right,
Speaker 1: I just get a ticket to the show. I'm still
Speaker 1: hunting along fifty other guys in Mount Emily, I'm still
Speaker 1: hunting along, you know, the other tagholders during a set
Speaker 1: season that the fish and wildlife sets because there's the
Speaker 1: best chance of escape, you know, Like we still got
Speaker 1: some of these odds against us, and I haven't got
Speaker 1: a true true like premium. I guess my elk tag
Speaker 1: this year is pretty premium, but just just like late
Speaker 1: season and I do, I walk in and I don't
Speaker 1: know why. I maybe with age it'll finally dissipate. But
Speaker 1: I look in there like, oh, that was a public
Speaker 1: land bull over the countertag. Oh that's a that was
Speaker 1: a landowner tag or an outfitter tag, like eh not
Speaker 1: not you know, you just knock it down a rung
Speaker 1: on the ladder.
Speaker 2: Right right, I feel like there's like, like you said,
Speaker 2: we get a like an outfitter tag or a lander tag,
Speaker 2: You're still just got a ticket to the show, right
Speaker 2: You're still you're still navigating public land with a lot
Speaker 2: of other folks. Like on my ol hunt this year
Speaker 2: in Oregon, Dude, we see it. We saw so many people.
Speaker 2: They were people across the canyon right where we spotted
Speaker 2: the elk the night before. We're right where they're supposed
Speaker 2: to walk there's people walking through there and sitting down
Speaker 2: and stinking it up and blowing out any opportunity there.
Speaker 2: There's people over at another vantage point looking for the
Speaker 2: same bull we're looking for, where there's people walking up
Speaker 2: on us, standing next to us one our viewpoint that
Speaker 2: standing there talking and looking in like, hey, you gotta
Speaker 2: be quiet. We're trying trying to get an elk here
Speaker 2: and they're talking out loud, and and you know, looking
Speaker 2: for spikes. You know they can be out there. You know,
Speaker 2: these are all the spike hunters. And and we did
Speaker 2: see another big bull tag hunter over there in that
Speaker 2: other vantage point. But meant there was people everywhere, so
Speaker 2: you know, it's not like we got some you know, Okay,
Speaker 2: come through the the pearly gates here and now you're
Speaker 2: in el Kevin and there's nobody else. It's it's still
Speaker 2: that So it's not that level of of I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a great opportunity that you know, not everybody can get,
Speaker 2: I guess, but it's a.
Speaker 1: But shoot it. I mean, if you but let's say
Speaker 1: you did have a state wide tag, you could have
Speaker 1: killed the Big Bowl. We were watching the night before
Speaker 1: while we were all scouting to try to find it.
Speaker 2: Right, right, we could have just pulled the trigger right
Speaker 2: then if we'd have the next level tag.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's just that difference of like, all right,
Speaker 1: these elk aren't dumb. Pressure shows up the Big Bowl
Speaker 1: we were watching like you knowwhere to be seen the
Speaker 1: next day because he had forty people around him the
Speaker 1: night before, you know, not really forty. I'm exaggerating, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just that's where it gets back to these like
Speaker 1: super premium tags, Like there's a huge difference on having
Speaker 1: a great tag that's but you're hunting along everybody else,
Speaker 1: but like being able to hunt the dates in between
Speaker 1: seasons or just any time you want. It's it's I
Speaker 1: think a huge difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well what do you what do you think set
Speaker 2: everybody off with this post? Anyway? Can can you can
Speaker 2: you elaborate on what the post said?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will. I was gonna get there a little
Speaker 1: bit at the end. Okay, I wanted I really wanted to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to put that. I really wanted the
Speaker 1: touch on the legal side because it's important to me
Speaker 1: and we've been advocates for this. I've mentioned on this
Speaker 1: podcast many times, like I ultimately don't care at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, as long as it's legal, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I can have my opinion, like yay, nay, Like I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Do it legal it's a company me, but you know
Speaker 2: it's legal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm I'm so tired of the division within
Speaker 1: the hunting you know world. I shouldn't say industry is
Speaker 1: a stupid word because there's not very many of us.
Speaker 1: To me, it matters like the hunting world, people that
Speaker 1: participate in hunting. There's so much division, you know, on
Speaker 1: this season versus that season. I want more time, you guys,
Speaker 1: you know your weapon gets more time, you know, meal
Speaker 1: deer over elk elk over meal deer, weapon choices, weapon restrictions,
Speaker 1: like if it's legal it We always complain about fish
Speaker 1: and wildlife organizations, but I guess at some point we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to trust them a little bit, Like if
Speaker 1: the fishing game have decided that that is a legal
Speaker 1: method of take and the seasons are based on it,
Speaker 1: Like at some point, I'm not the judge anymore. Right,
Speaker 1: I can say I don't like it, or I think
Speaker 1: we should fight for some change, but at some point,
Speaker 1: like my only measuring stick is the judge in the
Speaker 1: jury is like is it legal or is it not?
Speaker 1: And I should be done with it right, you know,
Speaker 1: aside from so one thing we go back to, like
Speaker 1: all right, the raffle tickets were bought for for an
Speaker 1: area and and so he had a legal tag, he
Speaker 1: had a legal right to hunt this elk this giant
Speaker 1: bowl where it was at. So I'm assumed, you know,
Speaker 1: I've got to assume then no reason not to believe
Speaker 1: that it wasn't you know, killed over you know, more
Speaker 1: than ten ten gallons of feet if feed was even used.
Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that, you know, up
Speaker 1: all of this caliber, like you know, there's no trespassing involved,
Speaker 1: permission to hunt on the place that lived, season dates,
Speaker 1: all of the things are, all the boxes have been checked,
Speaker 1: so it's legal. So why why would we, you know,
Speaker 1: why would I have any issues with this? And we're
Speaker 1: going to kind of wrap all that up, you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of to ask me to explain why the
Speaker 1: issue was with this. But as far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 1: it's legal, right, Like, who were we to say different?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we weren't there, and I just assume I assume
Speaker 2: you know, they did it, right, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, some of the speculation and some of the
Speaker 1: pictures that the others have brought up there are I've
Speaker 1: seen two videos and I've seen three or four pictures
Speaker 1: of this bowl. You know. One it was behind like
Speaker 1: a white vinyl horse fence, kind of comes up to
Speaker 1: the fence and turns away. The second video I've seen
Speaker 1: has the bull eating out of a little I would
Speaker 1: call it a little pile of alfalpha. But you know
Speaker 1: those like danglely like I call them party lights, you
Speaker 1: know where you can kind of dangle these lights from
Speaker 1: from post to post, you know, the big big in
Speaker 1: the Yeah, they were you know, there was a picture
Speaker 1: video of the bowl, obviously a trailcam picture of a
Speaker 1: bull eating some alfalfa and then it walks out of
Speaker 1: the frame. And then a couple of pictures of the bowl.
Speaker 1: I believe one was the prior year and one was
Speaker 1: this year of the bull eating some alfalfa and some
Speaker 1: deeper snow. I don't know dates on those photos, none
Speaker 1: of that, but those are what we've seen, and so
Speaker 1: that that is what kind of stirs up some of
Speaker 1: the unrest and and the way the story was, you know,
Speaker 1: it goes against I won't say against but goes it
Speaker 1: maybe challenges as a story, I'll put it that way,
Speaker 1: a little bit more on on you know, how how
Speaker 1: everything went, but I don't. And this is where I
Speaker 1: got to make sure, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be hypocritical, because I've killed a meal deer in each
Speaker 1: washing over a pile of apples. And that was pre
Speaker 1: like measured bait rules. So like I'm not joking. When
Speaker 1: we would pull up, everybody's seeing like the big bins
Speaker 1: of apples traveling you know, potatoes in like big giant bins, like.
Speaker 2: Literally two tons of apples.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was literally hunting over the like the the
Speaker 1: deer stood in the pile of apples to eat the apples,
Speaker 1: sort of a pile of apples.
Speaker 2: But how much how many apples were there on the
Speaker 2: bait though when I hunted, Yeah, it was like the
Speaker 2: major like there was no measurement back then. It was
Speaker 2: back then like oh you could put truckload of apples.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what I mean, Like I'm literally hunting
Speaker 1: like the ultimate bait, right apples. It smell on the
Speaker 1: top of apples. Yeah yeah yeah, so uh that you know,
Speaker 1: I've hunted deer over that and I did it once.
Speaker 1: My good buddy are good buddy orn with Tanglewood Guides
Speaker 1: invited me out and I'm like, hey, I did it once,
Speaker 1: Like this is I thing. And it kind of that
Speaker 1: was one where I had to kind of challenge my
Speaker 1: own personal you know, what I want to do for
Speaker 1: anty because there was a one eighty eight and a
Speaker 1: one eighty four buck killed that time, you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, and there was a bigger one around
Speaker 1: and you know, invited me back, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I would just assume take my wife back if I
Speaker 1: was going to come back. And he allowed my wife
Speaker 1: to come back, and we had a different blind and
Speaker 1: you know, and I've black tails around home. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody killing big black tails around home. You know, most
Speaker 1: of the time they need to. I shouldn't say everybody.
Speaker 1: Most of the black tails around home are being killed
Speaker 1: over bait, you know, in some sort of a blinder,
Speaker 1: a tree stand set up. We hunt. We hunt over
Speaker 1: bait at times, not all the time. In Kansas when
Speaker 1: we go right, it's just it's legal. And so like
Speaker 1: that's where I want to get back to, Like I
Speaker 1: don't have a single issue with baiting, you know, we
Speaker 1: We've did it at times in the past. I've did
Speaker 1: it and didn't really appreciate it, and you know the experience,
Speaker 1: and now that we're in Kansas, at times it's our
Speaker 1: best option and where Randy tells us we should be,
Speaker 1: we we are. So I don't have an issue with
Speaker 1: that as long as it's legal in that state, and
Speaker 1: you know, everything's followed. So in my opinion, like this
Speaker 1: checks the box, like as far as we know all
Speaker 1: the information we know, like this bowl was killed legally,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have an issue with with any
Speaker 1: of it. So we will circle back and then we'll
Speaker 1: get into the rest of the stories. So you had mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, so what was the issue er if? I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have an issue, but one of the things
Speaker 1: that bothered me was maybe the way the post, the
Speaker 1: original post. You know, Casey let his son Bo make
Speaker 1: the post and it starts right out. It doesn't say
Speaker 1: anything like new world record. You know, my dad does
Speaker 1: it again, it's the King of l Hunting, and it
Speaker 1: goes through to you know, talk about being number three
Speaker 1: and number four already in the books and like his
Speaker 1: lifelong dream to be, you know, hold the world record
Speaker 1: and so I think people and even myself, like it
Speaker 1: is what it is. I can read that, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you define the King of l Hunting.
Speaker 1: Is it truly the record book? But I think that's
Speaker 1: what really kind of made some people either amplify their
Speaker 1: jealousy or like you want to throw stones, whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. That's what kind of I think
Speaker 1: triggered some people. Yeah, I think that post would have
Speaker 1: been written up different. It could have been a completely
Speaker 1: different outcome.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I agree one hundred percent. It was
Speaker 2: a little inflammatory to a lot of folks, I think.
Speaker 2: But and then then I look at like if I
Speaker 2: put myself in Bo's seat, right, and and like in
Speaker 2: every every young man you say, well, my dad's the
Speaker 2: best dad in the world. My dad can beat up
Speaker 2: your dad. I mean, everybody is pretty damn proud of
Speaker 2: their dad. Like they put their dad on a pedestal,
Speaker 2: so I can see the excitement, Like I can see
Speaker 2: him like he's so excited for his dad and he
Speaker 2: thinks so much of his dad, and he puts that
Speaker 2: on there, and I can when I look at that perspective,
Speaker 2: like I'm not mad at all. But if you look
Speaker 2: at it from a different through a different lens. It
Speaker 2: can be a little in lamoratory to a lot of
Speaker 2: people because a lot of other people like, no, hey,
Speaker 2: hold on, I know a guy, my buddy, or my
Speaker 2: dad or my whoever, they're a better hunter because they
Speaker 2: do it this way or that way. Yeah, so back
Speaker 2: to like comparison, right, Like, you know, and I think
Speaker 2: like comparison is the thief of joy or whatever the
Speaker 2: old dadage says. So so this comparison, like my dad's
Speaker 2: the best delk hunter in the world. Everybody like immediately
Speaker 2: internally like, well bullshit, I I know twenty seven other
Speaker 2: people are better than that, you know, And immediately people
Speaker 2: are mad about it. So I think you're right. I
Speaker 2: feel like it was. If it would have been a
Speaker 2: little a different post, it could have been perceived differently.
Speaker 2: But but then again, I get it. I can.
Speaker 1: I totally get it, And there's part of me that
Speaker 1: like respects the post and would have did the same thing, like,
Speaker 1: and I struggle with it, like if I get to
Speaker 1: a place where maybe BO doesn't give a crap what
Speaker 1: anybody thinks, like this is my post. You can judge
Speaker 1: it however you want, Like this is you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, right, if you don't take any of these
Speaker 1: naysayers or these jealous individuals and like their attacks back
Speaker 1: like I made the post the way I wanted to, right,
Speaker 1: right and how I felt so I but I think
Speaker 1: there's also the sense like if you think of it
Speaker 1: that way, it's better. But you also just put it
Speaker 1: on social media with the intent or the purpose to
Speaker 1: share and get that out there. You've got to expect
Speaker 1: like some of that that to come back with the
Speaker 1: way it was worded and put together, right.
Speaker 2: And another thing if you think about like let's say
Speaker 2: you said, hey, my dad just found the cure to cancer,
Speaker 2: and he is now the best scientist in the world,
Speaker 2: and look at all of his you know, he's got
Speaker 2: this prize here, this Nobel prize for this, he's accomplished
Speaker 2: all this other stuff. And let's say you know, you've
Speaker 2: now he's found the cure for whatever XYZ disease. And
Speaker 2: of course it's different context. Of course it's not hunting.
Speaker 2: It's something completely different and super way more important. But still,
Speaker 2: like I don't somebody probably would be mad like, hey,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I'm a pretty damn good scientists too,
Speaker 2: But they probably be less less anger or less hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I want to be careful. I don't
Speaker 1: want to feel like I'm being a life coach here.
Speaker 1: But like I've I've went through you know when I I've
Speaker 1: never killed anything that's potential, you know, best in the world,
Speaker 1: you know. I guess my one bowls as close as
Speaker 1: it gets your number two in the state. And I think,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's just everybody's got different personalities. But like
Speaker 1: I tried to like overly be humble about it. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't want to be judged. It was nothing.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a lot of factors that go
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, there are people that are you know,
Speaker 1: consistently good elk hunters, consistently successful. But I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be put on any pedestal. It just happened to be.
Speaker 1: I was in the right place, with the right bowl
Speaker 1: at the right time. Like be careful here, Like my
Speaker 1: skills are above average. I think I think I've proven
Speaker 1: it enough times that probably above average. But like I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be I didn't want that to be anything.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be like defined by one single
Speaker 1: elk or one single accomplishment or most. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like I just wanted the elk. I just wanted the
Speaker 1: elk to be like seeing respected. I did have a
Speaker 1: business need and so it gets very complex, right, And
Speaker 1: I guess everybody does stuff for different reasons. But I
Speaker 1: just love the elk hunt. At the end of the day, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a little bit lucky, a little bit fortunate
Speaker 1: to kill a giant bowl. It it you know it,
Speaker 1: it took off every you know back then you were
Speaker 1: with you know, Extreme Milk magazine, Like you guys wanted
Speaker 1: a copy of it, and you know the story and
Speaker 1: you know, things kind of went on. And maybe I'm
Speaker 1: a hypocrite for saying like I didn't want you know,
Speaker 1: everybody to know about it, I guess, and around about
Speaker 1: way I did. But I just I wanted to be
Speaker 1: like real, modest and somewhat humble through that process because it,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I didn't want hunting to like be
Speaker 1: that thing that they gave you some social status. I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, growing up with the grandpa that was all
Speaker 1: about filling the freezer, I just felt a little bit
Speaker 1: dirty or wrong. And now I've got an entire business
Speaker 1: where I post everything I do, so I'm trying to
Speaker 1: like walk through this, but I guess at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, maybe I'm a hypocrite.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think you're intending, like, for instance, like
Speaker 2: you could say this about shooting a giant bowl, you
Speaker 2: could say this about buying a brand new pickup, like
Speaker 2: you kind of feel like a little bit humble, Like
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want. I don't want people to
Speaker 2: see me driving this pickup and then maybe they can't
Speaker 2: afford a cool truck like this and then feel bad
Speaker 2: Like I don't. I'm not trying to like make crush
Speaker 2: anybody's dreams or feel bad or if I kill something
Speaker 2: really nice, and I don't want anyone to feel less
Speaker 2: from it, you know. I want if if they see it,
Speaker 2: I hope they see it and like you know, and plod,
Speaker 2: you know, and like get inspired, but not feel slighted
Speaker 2: or feel like, oh man, you're just throwing that in
Speaker 2: her face. You know, I think that's part of your humility.
Speaker 2: I don't think you're you're looking for that at all.
Speaker 2: You're just like trying to share and and with you know,
Speaker 2: our brothers and brotherhood of hunting. You know, it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: look at this as a beautiful elk and has a
Speaker 2: beautiful experience and and maybe there's some inspiration from it,
Speaker 2: but yeah, back to your.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's yeah. And that's like you know people
Speaker 1: you know time like, oh, Dirk's the best elk call
Speaker 1: in the world, or Jason's a you know, a Matt
Speaker 1: you know, I just watched an episode somebody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: Rogan mentions you on on this one. So I go
Speaker 1: flip to Joe Rogan and he calls me like a
Speaker 1: master in a world class, and I'm like, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: just like some of those things like get under your skin.
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm I'm good at it, right. I think
Speaker 1: it would be stupid to say I'm a bad out caller, right,
Speaker 1: But I just I just don't. I don't. Maybe I
Speaker 1: shouldn't care, but I'm always like, oh, somebody's gonna be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I've did this, or you know. It's like I
Speaker 1: just want being somewha humble and flying under the radar
Speaker 1: and not. I don't know. It just seems like a
Speaker 1: safer spot at times, right, right, And maybe I'm a chicken.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what I'm talking about. Right now.
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where like the way
Speaker 1: I guess getting back to the way the post was made,
Speaker 1: like just yeah, I think putting it out there to
Speaker 1: all of social media in the context it was it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, king of elk hunting, and then went back
Speaker 1: to all like oh now he's number one, four and five,
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever it is. However that's going to
Speaker 1: lay out now. It was just I think it rubbed
Speaker 1: some people the wrong way, like you said, And I
Speaker 1: think if it was worded different or like we're so
Speaker 1: grateful or so thankful to have, you know, so blessed
Speaker 1: to have the opportunity, you know, and it went that way,
Speaker 1: I think would have been maybe a different response to
Speaker 1: to the to the.
Speaker 2: There'd still be there'd still be the haters, but I
Speaker 2: feel like I feel like they wouldn't have struck a
Speaker 2: nerve as many people.
Speaker 1: Maybe, Yeah, And I have no doubt, like I've never
Speaker 1: got to hunt with Casey. Regardless of where you're hunting.
Speaker 1: I've always said that too, regardless of where you're hunting,
Speaker 1: you still have to know, like you have to show
Speaker 1: the elk don't know that you've got a special tag
Speaker 1: and you know that, like you're who you are, Like
Speaker 1: the Elk don't just lay down regardless, so you still
Speaker 1: have to know what you're doing. And so I've never
Speaker 1: I don't want to discredit anything that you know, Casey
Speaker 1: or Bo or anybody is accomplished. I'm just walking through,
Speaker 1: you know, the circumstances around this one. So let's jump
Speaker 1: in one thing. And I got this is what I
Speaker 1: got some messages and even got like specific questions. Is
Speaker 1: the the uh the wealth involved that you know, I
Speaker 1: would say me and you are probably in that one
Speaker 1: percent of people that get to spend money on elkhunting
Speaker 1: due to our marketing budget, due to the resources we have.
Speaker 1: But the wealth that's put into this hunt by others,
Speaker 1: Like that's the one thing you get that got brought
Speaker 1: up more than anything else is like oh if I
Speaker 1: could do it, or you know another you know, people
Speaker 1: throw all kinds of other claims out there. I don't
Speaker 1: even know. I haven't added it up, you know, cost
Speaker 1: of the raffle tags and everything. But like this sort
Speaker 1: of wealth allows for opportunities that can probably be had
Speaker 1: by I wouldn't even get in the percent. I would
Speaker 1: just say fifty to one hundred individuals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and out a world and then out of those
Speaker 2: people who has the interest to spend the money and
Speaker 2: then go go to work and then know how to
Speaker 2: know how to hunt right or have that kind of interest,
Speaker 2: Like I could do it, but I don't really I'm
Speaker 2: not really interested in hunting.
Speaker 1: Elk yep, yeah, I mean I don't even know. We
Speaker 1: should bring up names. But you know, like Jimmy Johnes,
Speaker 1: great guy, spends a ton of money, but he has
Speaker 1: Ryan Carter with him right everywhere he go, you know,
Speaker 1: so there's like Casey doesn't have that where you know,
Speaker 1: so there's there's I think there's different levels of guys
Speaker 1: that can afford it. So we get back to that wealth.
Speaker 1: But then guys that maybe you know how to do
Speaker 1: it one percent on their own when they have to.
Speaker 1: Whether that's a factor or not, I just know that,
Speaker 1: like even like I I don't have the means. I
Speaker 1: could maybe do it once or twice, you know, do
Speaker 1: some of these governor's tags or raffle tags, and then
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to retire. But we talked about
Speaker 1: it and it got brought up on phone calls. You know,
Speaker 1: we've tried to think about it. I got asked somebody's like,
Speaker 1: do you have any way that you could data mine
Speaker 1: you know, how many percent of like Pop and Young
Speaker 1: or Boone and Crockett bowl in the record books like
Speaker 1: the all time were killed on Raffler Governor tags. And
Speaker 1: I don't, But it's a good question and we can
Speaker 1: at least have a conversation around it. You were mentioning
Speaker 1: the other day just or don't before the podcast, you
Speaker 1: don't know of anybody outside of like personally around you,
Speaker 1: outside of governor or Raffle tag holders that have killed
Speaker 1: a foreuner inch bowl right on on that ground or
Speaker 1: at home.
Speaker 2: I feel like I know like a lot of the
Speaker 2: like a lot of in the industry, really good hunters,
Speaker 2: you know, Ryan Lampers and such and folks like him,
Speaker 2: you know. But and then I know a lot of
Speaker 2: unsung hunters of people that don't don't do social they
Speaker 2: don't do industry stuff, and really really really good hunters.
Speaker 2: They don't have a four hundred inch bowl under the belt,
Speaker 2: but they're just you know, working stiff guys. You know,
Speaker 2: they're not they don't have a big checkbook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that Dave Graham that I've had on the podcast,
Speaker 1: you know, probably probably one hundred episodes ago. You know,
Speaker 1: he got the Idaho and the Heydays, and his dad
Speaker 1: had all kinds of access because he was the appliance
Speaker 1: or prayer man, right, and so he was hunting some
Speaker 1: of amazing Idaho stuff. And that guy's got a ton
Speaker 1: of bowls over three eighty that he won't talk about
Speaker 1: three but he never broke I don't believe he's ever
Speaker 1: broke that that magical four hundred inch number, you know.
Speaker 1: And he was He's another one of those guys that, like,
Speaker 1: I know, he knows how to hunt. I've got to
Speaker 1: hunt with him down in New Mexico, you know. But
Speaker 1: just like that, you see a guy that probably had
Speaker 1: more opportunities than the best of the best to Idaho
Speaker 1: had to offer, and couldn't, you know, muster up a
Speaker 1: four hundred. You know, he's seen some but just could
Speaker 1: never kill him. Yeah, it's just it's a tough, tough
Speaker 1: feat and that kind of rolls into you know, And
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a little story on
Speaker 1: on the wealth and and how you get access to
Speaker 1: foreigner and twenty inch bowls. So twenty nineteen, the very
Speaker 1: first outfitter tag I ever bought in Oregon. I was
Speaker 1: hunting with Brian Sanders. I don't think he went on
Speaker 1: that one. It was just us. And so we're hunting
Speaker 1: and Brian's kind of a funny guy. He's kind of
Speaker 1: always on his phone but not letting me see and
Speaker 1: texting back and forth. And I've got a ten day hunt.
Speaker 1: I know he's got a state wide take holder that's
Speaker 1: got a governor's tag kind of that he's waiting to
Speaker 1: find the right bull. You know, he's got guys out looking,
Speaker 1: and uh so I killed my bull, you know, a
Speaker 1: great three forty bowl. We had to go down to private.
Speaker 1: All the bulls actually showed up down on Brian's place,
Speaker 1: went down one hundred minimal pine tree flat, and I
Speaker 1: killed my three forty bowl. We got it all taken
Speaker 1: care of, and you could see Brian was like really
Speaker 1: itchy to go check on some stuff. Next day, he
Speaker 1: calls the state state tag holder in, they pay an
Speaker 1: access fee, and they go kill four and twenty inch
Speaker 1: bowl the next day. So that's where like this this
Speaker 1: funding and wealth at times, that's an opportunity even if
Speaker 1: everybody had that tag, whatever it may be. Like until
Speaker 1: you can keep writing checks up to you know, or
Speaker 1: that that bowls off limits for a guy like me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and so so that you know there's there's
Speaker 1: raffle tags, there's resources. We were in the TU canon
Speaker 1: back in twenty fourteen on Charlie or kell Smith's tag,
Speaker 1: you know up there Charlie, like, I didn't realize there
Speaker 1: are the mountains are crawling with people because some of
Speaker 1: these governor tags, whether it's legal or not, it's basically
Speaker 1: legal guiding. There are the mountains are crawling with people
Speaker 1: looking for that finder's fee for foreign and inch bowl
Speaker 1: or some of these governor tags. And it's just like
Speaker 1: I didn't realize, you know, until I started to figure,
Speaker 1: you know, to understand or actually be in the know,
Speaker 1: how how crazy it is and some of the bounties
Speaker 1: that are put on on these guys finding bowls. So
Speaker 1: people are out there doing it as a part time
Speaker 1: job or you know, running trail cameras everywhere, and we're like,
Speaker 1: what do you oh, we're just scouting for for governor's tag.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, it's it's crazy, and like
Speaker 1: it's I don't know what you call I guess it's
Speaker 1: resources that most people don't have, right, Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: me and you were fortunate that a lot of people
Speaker 1: know us or know of us or want to help us.
Speaker 1: And I feel like even what we get at times
Speaker 1: is like maybe go to this area, like we don't
Speaker 1: ever get put on. But it's like even that compared
Speaker 1: to like, you know, somebody like, hey, I got a
Speaker 1: bowl in this canyon at this time. Not saying that's
Speaker 1: how this went at all, but it's just talking about
Speaker 1: how wealth can sometimes lead to opportunities that aren't there,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe there's a little bit of jealousy
Speaker 1: for people that they can't do it, you know, But
Speaker 1: I would say it's available to everybody. You just have
Speaker 1: to go out there and work and get the money
Speaker 1: to some point. Right, Like, it's not saying it's off limits.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work and a lot of fortune
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of luck involved on getting
Speaker 1: yourself to a place where you can financially afford that.
Speaker 1: So it is available to everybody, but there's some limitations
Speaker 1: to get there.
Speaker 2: I would say, right, well, look at Chuck Adams, right
Speaker 2: you read his book, and this book's published years ago.
Speaker 2: A couple decades ago, probably, but you know out famous
Speaker 2: outdoor writer, famous bow hunter, you know, legendary bowhunter. But
Speaker 2: he you know, full transparency, troll, full transparency in his book.
Speaker 2: You know, he's just like, you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: people like say, he's wealthy, you know, that's why he
Speaker 2: can afford to go hunt sheep and all these all
Speaker 2: these different hont polar bears and all this stuff. But
Speaker 2: he's like, people don't realize. He's like, I've mortgaged my
Speaker 2: house several times, you know, taking out the equity for
Speaker 2: these hunts. He's like, I make a pretty normal living
Speaker 2: as an outdoor writer, but my priorities is these hunts.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: And so he's probably not making the best financial decisions.
Speaker 2: If Dave Ramsey heard him, he'd be like, you're a fool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but his kids are going to be His kids
Speaker 1: are going to be pissed off when they read the
Speaker 1: will and figure out the bank.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if that's the situation, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, if you just love the huntnut your passion,
Speaker 1: you might be able to put it all together and
Speaker 1: make it happen, right.
Speaker 2: Right, But don't I don't know too many people that are
Speaker 2: really willing to like mortgage their house to go hunt,
Speaker 2: you know somewhere. I mean, that's that's next level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I wanted to jump in a little bit
Speaker 1: to the advantage that these tags give somebody. And we
Speaker 1: were talking about a little bit earlier, like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: bull that was killed could probably have been killed on
Speaker 1: a normal tag. Yeah, I believe the state of Washington.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say the number of tags because
Speaker 1: it could allude to the unit. Not very many tags
Speaker 1: are given though, right, very very very few, pretty brushy unit.
Speaker 1: You know, wherever this bull rutted. My understand I did
Speaker 1: I know this bowl is being hunted on public private
Speaker 1: prior to to ending up on the private. It's just
Speaker 1: so these tags, it's easy for people to just say
Speaker 1: this bull could have been killed with Yeah, that's that
Speaker 1: is a fact. But the likelihood or anybody it's hunted
Speaker 1: long enough knows that there's like circumstances that don't make
Speaker 1: it like a very high probability you'd ever kill that
Speaker 1: buy right, whether it lived on a private ranch or
Speaker 1: it truly did live on public, or maybe it crosses
Speaker 1: from two pieces of private and you're trying to hunt
Speaker 1: like a little you know, corner these sort of opportunities.
Speaker 1: There are advantages that that normal people, you know, without
Speaker 1: a raffle or a governor's tag just don't have. And
Speaker 1: there's no denying that. Right. You can start typically well,
Speaker 1: at least in Washington state August first, or maybe that's Oregon,
Speaker 1: maybe Washington September first, all the way to December thirty first. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and with and with governor's tags, you never have to
Speaker 1: put your rifle down if that's your meat. You know,
Speaker 1: Casey killed this one with a bow. But if you
Speaker 1: want it to, you can even have more of advantage
Speaker 1: and never put your rifle down. You can literally, you know,
Speaker 1: go out there during archery season and hunt right alongside
Speaker 1: those guys at your rifle if that's that's what you
Speaker 1: want to do. And then it does give, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: an advantage at the back end of the season because
Speaker 1: you if you have an early winner or a winner
Speaker 1: or these bulls start to migrate out of their summer
Speaker 1: range or their transition range and they're down into their
Speaker 1: their winter range. I do feel they become more susceptible
Speaker 1: to being comfortable, like the creature comforts of where's my food?
Speaker 1: You know, they they literally just went from being able
Speaker 1: to live anywhere in the world down to a small
Speaker 1: section of lowlands. And you know, not only this bowl.
Speaker 1: What two years ago, Dirk, we were talking the Washington
Speaker 1: Raffle Tag Bowl, right, the giant that was four sixty
Speaker 1: four to seventy once again killed on in the last
Speaker 1: week of December. I believe, you know, had to wait
Speaker 1: for enough snow to pile up for that bowl. And
Speaker 1: I'm I do want to to add an asterisk to
Speaker 1: this conversation. This is how I understand the story. So
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is exact fat. There was yet hurt.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of snow in that picture, and
Speaker 1: I do know about the time it was killed. You know,
Speaker 1: it was later in the year that bowl had to
Speaker 1: get down, you know, a little bit lower. So there
Speaker 1: is there's there's you know, unlimited season, not unlimited, but
Speaker 1: confined season that extends way outside of normal opportunity. And
Speaker 1: then a lot of people are able to take advantage
Speaker 1: over the potential early winter. You know, you're you're starting
Speaker 1: to hunt all the way through December thirty first. I
Speaker 1: know that bowl this year, I'm I know the Governor's
Speaker 1: Tag Bowl was killed in that last week in Washington
Speaker 1: this year. So there is no denying that some of
Speaker 1: these bulls become more vulnerable or more susceptible to being
Speaker 1: you know, being seen or located late in the year
Speaker 1: when the snow forces them to be in certain areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's you know, they're down there, you know,
Speaker 2: focusing on just staying alive at this point, you know,
Speaker 2: as far as feeding, you know that they're not maybe
Speaker 2: not being pursued by people or the predators they are
Speaker 2: always looking for, but they're just trying to pack on
Speaker 2: some weight after everything they've lost over the over the rut, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yep, yep, yeah. And then at that time of
Speaker 1: the year, there's no nobody out in the woods, right
Speaker 1: you're it's you. And then you know you're the only
Speaker 1: tag holder for a large chunk of the state or
Speaker 1: you know, the whole state for some of these tags,
Speaker 1: or half the state in Washington, it's just different. Those
Speaker 1: those all aren't being bothered by anything but predators. At
Speaker 1: that point, like no more human presence, they get comfortable,
Speaker 1: they've got to live in a smaller area, and so
Speaker 1: it just kind of yeah, there's an advantage. Do you
Speaker 1: pay for that advantage. Yes, is it right or wrong?
Speaker 1: Or you know, it's like once again, it's legal, and
Speaker 1: we don't set up the season dates. So if the
Speaker 1: season dates for raffles and governor's tags needs to be
Speaker 1: what it is, then that I'm fine with it. There is,
Speaker 1: but there is, like I think we need to talk
Speaker 1: to the facts that they are more vulnerable, more susceptible
Speaker 1: at that time of year right now.
Speaker 2: I would I wouldn't think. I would like to question
Speaker 2: a little bit like some of these where these funds
Speaker 2: are going, you know, in the spirit of conservation. You know,
Speaker 2: that's how they spun, Like these these funds that folks
Speaker 2: are paying for these governor tags or raffle tags. You know,
Speaker 2: it's all all goes back to conservation. But I'd really
Speaker 2: love to see an in depth audit to some of
Speaker 2: those accounts of where that actually money is spent, where
Speaker 2: the rubber meets the road back into conservation, back onto
Speaker 2: where it hits the landscape of wildlife conservation. I'd like
Speaker 2: to see that just to be like, Okay, yeah, we're
Speaker 2: doing the right thing, stale or whole hold on, we
Speaker 2: maybe maybe we shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 1: This, yeah, yeah, or like, you know, I'd love to
Speaker 1: see a you know, similar out of that audit, like
Speaker 1: how you know, for one hundred dollars in like how
Speaker 1: much of it actually ends up on the ground or
Speaker 1: does it all get cut up in red tape? And oh,
Speaker 1: by the time we pay the administration and ninety percent
Speaker 1: of it goes the wages and you know, fish and
Speaker 1: wildlife stuff, then oh ten percent will actually go back
Speaker 1: into to opening up some wintering range or planting some stage.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like you know, like the Red Cross
Speaker 1: kind of always gives there, you know, any any big foundation,
Speaker 1: like oh, seventy three percent will make it back to
Speaker 1: you know, on the ground, or ninety percent will make
Speaker 1: it to the recipient, right, Like are we you know,
Speaker 1: because that gets thrown out, like that's the first the
Speaker 1: fence you see, Like look at how much money they're
Speaker 1: putting into conservation. I'm like, yeah, it face value, it
Speaker 1: looks like that, but you know, are we really getting
Speaker 1: it to where it needs to get? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's I want to kind of wrap this up,
Speaker 1: and you know, we could talk about it all all day,
Speaker 1: but like I just at times too my own opinion,
Speaker 1: Like I just sometimes love to watch animals. Like I've
Speaker 1: said it on this podcast before, I root for the
Speaker 1: animals sometimes, right, And at times there's like, man, part
Speaker 1: of me would love for this bowl to breed every
Speaker 1: cow and you know, and that in that county. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and as are as genes going to show up and
Speaker 1: and so like I said, I'm not trying to say
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have killed the thing if I had the opportunity,
Speaker 1: But like you know, cemetery bucks just don't get me excited.
Speaker 1: But I love to look at him to my binoculars
Speaker 1: and like, wow, that's a great example of the species,
Speaker 1: right right, Like that's a school to look at and
Speaker 1: I would love to see what he does next year.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've got I've got big blacktails that
Speaker 1: walk through my yards at times, and I don't shoot them,
Speaker 1: and I can't stop my neighbors from shooting them at times.
Speaker 1: But it's like I just I just love to watch
Speaker 1: the deer do their thing in my yard at times,
Speaker 1: like maybe I'm a softy, I don't know. Sometimes like
Speaker 1: watching this elk, you know, just do its thing, getting
Speaker 1: down to you know, where he's lived for the past
Speaker 1: you know, you know, five six years and where he's comfortable, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Once again, it goes back. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should say it was legal and not get into that
Speaker 1: touchy feely stuff.
Speaker 2: But right well, I think we all have our like
Speaker 2: how would prefer to kill an elk or you know,
Speaker 2: our our our dream hunt. I've I've been building points
Speaker 2: in Arizona for years. You know I'm gonna I'm approaching
Speaker 2: two decades in points in Arizona, and I could for
Speaker 2: sure draw a late season tag somewhere. But to me,
Speaker 2: in my in my eye, and people are like, dude,
Speaker 2: you should just draw that late season tag. Oh it's great.
Speaker 2: But in my mind, if I'm going to Arizona, that's
Speaker 2: not the hunt I want. I don't want to go
Speaker 2: there when it's the forest is quiet and it's cold,
Speaker 2: and I'm just glass and bowls and sneaking up and
Speaker 2: all that. I'm going there for the experience. I'm going
Speaker 2: there for the screaming bowls, the rut. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: looking for that particular experience. In fact, you know, here
Speaker 2: in Idaho myself, like there's a there's a lot of
Speaker 2: units that have a lot of elk that but it's
Speaker 2: just not my cup of tea. I don't like that
Speaker 2: kind of hunting. I'm gonna go hunt the kind of
Speaker 2: places it's my kind of pretty and and hunt them
Speaker 2: on the way I like to do it, calling them in,
Speaker 2: calling them in, right I can. I've I've always said
Speaker 2: the guys that are good at spot in stock kill
Speaker 2: way more bulls than the guys that are calling them in,
Speaker 2: and bigger bulls. But that's not the way I like
Speaker 2: to do it, right. So yeah, so I get I guess,
Speaker 2: you know, personally, that's not my cup of tea. How
Speaker 2: i'd want to kill that built that world record bowl.
Speaker 2: But I'm not gonna throw rocks. I mean, it was legal.
Speaker 2: It's just my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yep. No, And that's that's how I'm it was legal.
Speaker 1: We can all have our opinions. Do they matter? No,
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, they're They're
Speaker 1: just opinions. And and like I say, I I think
Speaker 1: we should, you know, stay away from, you know, being
Speaker 1: devisive as we can. There's just there's are some things
Speaker 1: on this bowl, like I hopefully you know, i'd like
Speaker 1: to congratulate Casey on his success and and you know,
Speaker 1: bo On on his dad's success, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: awesome to see. It's awesome that we get a chance
Speaker 1: to see a bowl of that caliber. Who knows, maybe
Speaker 1: next time one's killed, we won't get to see it
Speaker 1: with all the you know, all the the the hate
Speaker 1: that you know, I don't know if it's hate, but
Speaker 1: you know, people people throwing shade. I just once again,
Speaker 1: I'm not a life coach, I'm not a psychologist, but
Speaker 1: I would just say, next time, Like I think if
Speaker 1: it would have been worded different, well it could have
Speaker 1: been in a completely different outcome. Maybe not as many
Speaker 1: people would have been frustrated with the story. And you know,
Speaker 1: calling whether it's your dad or not, the King of
Speaker 1: l cunning. It's tough to define that, right because there's
Speaker 1: no situation the same, no opportunity is the same, and
Speaker 1: I think we can all argue that we definitely don't
Speaker 1: have the same opportunity that Casey gets, right, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of funny. There's a there's a
Speaker 1: twenty eight page post on one of the local forums,
Speaker 1: you know, because it was killed here in Washington, so
Speaker 1: everybody's talking about it and they're like, well, how do
Speaker 1: you how are you the king elk hunting? Like did
Speaker 1: we put an elk with like the same mental capability
Speaker 1: inside of a fence a million times? And let everybody
Speaker 1: who thinks they're the best elk hunter, like, go try
Speaker 1: to kill it, and then what's our measuring stick? Like
Speaker 1: the way the wind was that day? How fast you
Speaker 1: killed it? Like, there's no way because all of our
Speaker 1: all of our stories are different, all of our opportunities
Speaker 1: are different, right, And I think maybe we'll close with
Speaker 1: this like that might be the biggest detriment to social
Speaker 1: media and hunting in general, now that everybody can talk.
Speaker 1: Like back in the day when Grandpa hunted, right, I think,
Speaker 1: like you didn't know what the hell somebody killed two
Speaker 1: states over. I had no idea that there was a
Speaker 1: giant bowl killed on the wall or a buck on
Speaker 1: the Wallsat's front. You had no idea that something was
Speaker 1: killed in Arizona unless you a magazine.
Speaker 2: You didn't even know there was out there.
Speaker 1: You literally, yeah, you you just hunted the hunt. And
Speaker 1: I think that that like find your own why, right,
Speaker 1: and just stick to it. Don't be jealous. Like know
Speaker 1: that whoever posted the picture of a giant bowl that
Speaker 1: was their their idea. Maybe they locked into it. Give
Speaker 1: them a high five, SA, congrats, and then go on
Speaker 1: your way, like don't judge them by your by your book,
Speaker 1: or don't judge them by what you're after, right, And
Speaker 1: I like, I say, I feel like I'm preaching or
Speaker 1: a psychologist right here, but I feel like it's important
Speaker 1: for all of us for hunting's future to like we've
Speaker 1: got to find a way to to like get by
Speaker 1: judging what everybody does, like, oh, they use a muzzle order,
Speaker 1: but it's not traditional, like Matt doesn't count. Or oh
Speaker 1: they they're a crossbow hunter and I'm a long bow hunter,
Speaker 1: like doesn't get Like, no, just do it because you
Speaker 1: love it and because that's what hunting was. If you
Speaker 1: didn't have a damn Facebook page or an Instagram page
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe if you read a magazine article,
Speaker 1: you'd see one person killed with a cross bow, like
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know this happens, like social media good or bad.
Speaker 1: It's like you've got to be able to like cope
Speaker 1: with you cope with your feelings, and just accept it
Speaker 1: for what it is. Like those people would be doing
Speaker 1: that with or without social media. Maybe maybe not. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like I'm just rambling now and
Speaker 1: I'll getting the point across.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well back to your point of king of
Speaker 2: bell hunting. I mean, it's so like in his opportunity
Speaker 2: of world, it is in his opportunity of bail to
Speaker 2: spend that kind of money and hunt those kind of places. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know that maybe, yeah, he is a king that
Speaker 2: he's gonna take that crown with that, with that measurement. Right,
Speaker 2: But I know a guy that nobody knows he's killed
Speaker 2: more three hundred plus inch bulls with a rifle in October,
Speaker 2: you know, on rifle season in the most wolf infested
Speaker 2: unit in Idaho. He's killed more of those big bulls
Speaker 2: anybody I know, more than all the old old timers.
Speaker 2: In fact, his dad shot a three eighty bowl and
Speaker 2: that wolf infested unit here two years ago. I would
Speaker 2: challenge that hit between him and his dad.
Speaker 1: I would.
Speaker 2: I would almost say he and his dad are the
Speaker 2: king of l cunning like they have they have, they
Speaker 2: have really completed a feat in that country. And then
Speaker 2: to pull a three eighty bull out of there that
Speaker 2: nobody shot at a three eighty bowl in that in
Speaker 2: that area in thirty forty fifty years, I'm like, so Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like there's the situations just so different like to
Speaker 2: just say to say that, and I think that's why
Speaker 2: people were so incensed or mad about that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, because you can't define it. And you know,
Speaker 1: you mentioned your buddy, I know who you're talking about,
Speaker 1: but you're like, we've talked about Dave Graham, We've talked
Speaker 1: about my our buddy John Davis up there in Libby.
Speaker 1: You talk about guys like Ryan Lampers and Brian Barney
Speaker 1: like they they they've got the skill and then know
Speaker 1: how they've proven it over and over and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: if you, let's say Ryan Lampers had a bottomless checkbook, man,
Speaker 1: I almost would struggle to ever bet against him like
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, if not better, Right, Like I
Speaker 1: I don't I want to, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: into this. You know maybe, but it is like you
Speaker 1: can't define that because it is so unique to everybody.
Speaker 1: And and I guess we can kind of close with that.
Speaker 2: Do what you love, you hunt the way you love,
Speaker 2: do the do do the best you can, and root
Speaker 2: for other hunters, but in the end, just just be happy, like,
Speaker 2: don't throw rocks at each other. I'm a huge like
Speaker 2: I'm always saying, like, like, man, we are so divided,
Speaker 2: and everybody's got something to say, you know, about about anything,
Speaker 2: like it don't matter what it is. You know, you
Speaker 2: see all these crazy posts I somebody uh posted bo
Speaker 2: had put like a little video like Casey Brooks and
Speaker 2: chot this big bull and kind of starts talking about it,
Speaker 2: and then somebody you know remixed it and then put
Speaker 2: in their two cents on on Instagram. So I kind
Speaker 2: of commented a little bit of something about not really
Speaker 2: about that bowl, but I addressed one of the other
Speaker 2: comments he'd made there. Oh man, you know people are
Speaker 2: people are commenting on that and then telling me I'm
Speaker 2: a I'm a jackass and for this and that. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, but what about this? What about that? Then
Speaker 2: I feel like me, I should just shut up and
Speaker 2: like I shouldn't even comment, right I should, But sometimes
Speaker 2: you just like I want to put my two cents
Speaker 2: in there to get people thinking, yeah, but let's not
Speaker 2: hate each other. Geez, come on, no name calling, no hate,
Speaker 2: let's just all think about it. And but you know,
Speaker 2: we all take our own path in life.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. No appreciate having you on your Like I say,
Speaker 1: it was a topic once again I didn't want to
Speaker 1: comment on, so I figured let's just have a podcast
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I say, we'll end with congrats
Speaker 1: to Casey and bow On on that success, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: just go out and hunt the way you love to
Speaker 1: and try to keep your comments to yourself, like it
Speaker 1: just it's not a good look, if it's legal, if
Speaker 1: it checks out box, and just keep it to yourself
Speaker 1: and move on.
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Guys, All right, take care of them and