WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: TechStuff Looks for Abandonware 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:13.800 stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.320 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.599 how Stuff Works in a love all things tech. And 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.520 it's Friday, which means it's time for a classic episode. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.960 This one originally published on December twelve, two thousand eleven, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.320 and it's called tech Stuff Looks for abandoned Ware, where 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.680 Chris and I talk about the concept of abandoned ware 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.159 and what that actually means. I hope you enjoy the 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.360 silence of a falling star lights up the purple sky, 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.440 and as I wonder where you are, I'm so lonesome 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:49.280 I could cry. Very nicely done, thank you. Today we 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.440 think Hank would have done it that way, Hank. So 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.840 today we're going to talk about abandoned ware. Yes, we 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.600 we've had requests to talk about abandoned ware, and this 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.840 is UM and we've talked about abandon were in the past, 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.920 just not as a dedicated topic. Yeah, we've also talked 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.680 about vaporware, which is a totally different thing, UM, if 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.600 you might wonder what the differences are. Vaporware is when 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.679 a company has announced or information is leaked out that 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.679 a company is working on a particular product, but that 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.640 probably never seems to actually go to market. Oh I 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.440 thought it was the kind of software that every once 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.280 in a while just make you feel light headed. I'm 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.880 already got a headache. I've already got a headache. So 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.959 that's different. I'll tell you what that means, and you'll 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.199 like it because you like that kind of humor. Uh. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.240 The but no, the the abandoned ware is when a 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.240 company has produced a piece of well product mainly, but 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.880 we usually talk about in terms of software, and more 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.240 frequently than not, we talked about in terms of games, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.320 although that's not the only kind of abandoned ware. But 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:59.000 the company produces this the the But then technology continues 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.120 to evolve over time, and yeah, no, it's crazy, right, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.800 So they things like computers. Let's let's say a computer 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.000 it gets so advanced that it can no longer run 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.720 older software. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Yeah, where you 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.240 get to a point where you know, if software has 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.960 been produced before a certain point, your computer is not 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.720 really able to run it anymore because things have changed 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.560 so dramatically. And then companies will sort of stop supporting 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:32.200 this old software that they produced years ago. Okay, so 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.120 if they no longer provide any support or they've discontinued it, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.760 that's abandoned. Where if a company creates some software that 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.040 is you know, it hits the market and then that 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:47.560 company ceases to exist, that software may be considered abandonware 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.079 because now there's no there's no place you can buy 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.640 it anymore because the company that was in charge of 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.960 it is gone. This can happen through an acquisition or 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.320 a merger where certain divisions get dissolved or merged into 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.280 other divisions that as a result, pieces of software no 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:07.160 longer have a kind of a a a shepherd really 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.519 to keep the software going. So what happens to that software? 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.480 What happens if you want to have access to that software? 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.640 How can you do it? Are there legal ways of 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:21.240 getting at it? And uh, it's a little complicated. Yeah. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.960 The uh, the in the context we brought it up 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.280 in before, we were talking about the multiple machine or 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:32.440 multiple arcade machine emulator. Name, Um, you coax the blues 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:38.680 right out of the horn. Sorry name name yes? Um? 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:44.040 Not a n T I yes? Um? So yeah, name 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.080 is for those of you who don't know, basically, a 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.160 way of uh running the programs that old arcade mean, 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.680 while actually not necessarily old that arcade machines would run 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.560 in their cabinets on a home computer. Right now, keep 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.560 in mind that arcade machine, the software for those machines 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.520 was built specifically for the hardware inside the arcade machine. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.600 You wouldn't opening up an arcade cabinet and find a 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.400 a computer in there, right, It wouldn't look like a computer. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.720 It would look like a whole bunch of different chips 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:21.680 wired together. And uh yeah, and and so it's hardwired 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.320 into the the hardware, like you know, you don't have 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:27.920 you don't put a disc in at least not most 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:29.560 arcade games. I know there are a few that run 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.480 on laser disc, but that's not what we're talking about here. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.920 We're talking about like it's reading directly from a chip. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.039 A similar example would be when you if you ever 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.039 played console games that used cartridges. The cartridge had the 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.240 ROM on it, right, and the console just had the 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.960 the technology to read the ROM and then translate that 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.560 into a game. So for a computer, you would have 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.440 to create an emulator, something that could create an environment 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.520 similar to the hardware that you would find inside that 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.279 arcade machine in order for you to run the rom 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.320 on a computer. And sometimes this would work well and 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.760 you would have a pretty uh similar experience as to 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.479 if you were sitting in front of an arcade machine 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.720 and playing it. And in some cases it doesn't work 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.240 so well because the computer's architecture and the arcade architecture 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.720 are so different that the game stutters or just runs 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.920 really slowly. Yeah, So then you have, uh the question 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.560 you you're able to run this uh software and on 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:36.320 your home computer, and you have something like say Kangaroo, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.880 and you want to play Kangaroo on your home computer, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:43.040 and you go, wait a minute, Atari still exists. I mean, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.680 truth is it's a different Attari technically, but they own 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.080 the copyright for that stuff. Now you know. That's one thing. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.719 Then on the other hand, you have something like say Defender, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.960 and then you say, okay, well who owns the stuff 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.680 that Williams used to make? Or Robotron for that matter. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.200 Um okay, So that's that's one version. Um My. My 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.920 other example was was going to be I was gonna 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.760 ask you if you thought that if I brought my 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:19.240 copy of Deluxe Video Construction Set to Electronic Arts for Miamiga. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.720 Do you think they'd support it, or cement for that matter, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.120 from Maxis before it was acquired by Electronic Arts. I 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.560 don't think so. But the thing is, the question is 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.840 you know I can legally use that software because I 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.839 still own the disks for sim AT even though I 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.240 never really had enough memory in mi Amiga to run it. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.080 You wouldn't be able to distribute it. I can't distribute it, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.360 but I legally can run that all I want to. Now, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:51.720 for something like Maime the in in some cases the 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.559 manufacturer is still around, in some cases it's a different 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.080 version of the manufacturer who legally owns the copyright, and 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.440 in other cases the manufacturer is gone and it's hard 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.760 to identify who, if anybody, owns the copyright. And this 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:11.880 actually is it presents some seriously thorny legal issues, right, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.720 So let's let's clear things up a little bit here. Uh, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.680 if there is an old piece of software, it's available 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:24.800 online and there hasn't been any express permission from the 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:29.320 copyright holder that that software can be distributed, distributing that 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:34.679 software is illegal. Yes, it violates copyright. Now, that being said, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.080 copyright is one of those things that only works if 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.880 you exercise your right to the copyright. In other words, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.400 the copyright owner would have to pursue action against anyone 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:50.560 distributing that content. So if you are if you come 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.600 across an old game from the the late eighties, let's say, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.880 and it's an old doss based game on the little 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.560 from the late eighties, and you wanted to you love 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.240 this game and you want other people to explore this 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.440 game and experience this game, and there is no way 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.920 to buy the game because the game, the company doesn't exist, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.600 or the company still exists but no longer markets this 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.440 game or supports it. Then you might feel, well, what's 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.200 the harm? I mean, no one's no one's trying to 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.720 make money off of this. No one is losing money 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.120 off of this because there's no way to legitimately get 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.040 ahold of this. Why is there an issue? And it's 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.360 all because of that copyright, and the copyright holder may 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:36.480 choose to not pursue action. It doesn't mean that it's legal. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.719 It just means the copyright holder is allowing the that 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.560 material to be distributed. Said, wouldn't you know what I 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.120 picked a bad example for a video game was just 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.960 its kangaroo? Really Attari it was distributed by Atari, but 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.040 actually it was a product by Sun Electronics. Did you 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.760 wear like little boxing gloves in that game and you 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.600 had to box stuff as a kangaroo? I vaguely remember 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.120 playing that. It was it was it was very Donkey 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.840 Kong like because you climbed up to the top and 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.439 had to find your Joey, you know, the baby kangaroo. Right. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:12.000 So anyhow, so substitute Centipede for what I said before. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.040 Chris and I will be back to talk a little 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.240 bit more about abandonware in just a second, but first 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:26.600 let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Anyway, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.640 So getting back to copyrights. Now, a copyright, the term 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.920 of a copyright right now lasts for in the United States, 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.720 last for seventy five years from the creation of the work, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.559 unless it's a work for higher right years, right, So yeah, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.800 a work for higher would be last even longer, and 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:46.880 most of these, I guess would be considered work for high, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:48.520 which is why I brought it up. That's a good point. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.679 So in other words, this is software that is going 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.200 to be is still protected by copyright and will be 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.600 for pretty much our lifetime, right, I mean, some of 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.200 us might get really lucky to maybe the Singularity will hit, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.480 and it won't, that won't be a problem. But at 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.360 that point, who's playing video games? But if you wanted 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.560 to play Space War, you're probably in fairly decent shape 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.920 because that was created so much earlier than this stuff. Yeah, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.960 the games that were created in the eighties. Um, even 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.319 our our younger listeners would have problems with this all 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:27.839 the way through. So by legal definition, strictly, going by that, 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.920 it is not there's no real recourse unless the copyright 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:38.640 holder gives permission for distribution or releases the copyright into 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.760 the public domain. Now at that point, you know, it's 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.640 weird to call the software abandoned ware, because abandonware really 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:51.560 means this software that doesn't have really any support or 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:57.480 or access through legitimate channels, So it's not like it's 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.600 abandoned where that point is just public to main work, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.839 so it becomes more like shareware in a way. But 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.880 a copyright holder does have that option. Uh, And in 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.920 some cases you you see companies take advantage of old, old, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.120 old libraries of content and repackage them and and market 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.840 them again, which would mean that you wouldn't want to 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.880 host those abandoned ware games on your site, for example, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:28.559 because they are actually making money from this old content 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.360 and there are legitimate ways to get hold of it. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.000 A good example of that as Atari, because you've got 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.800 the old Atari games that get repackaged occasionally as an 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:42.120 app for a smartphone or tablet device. Also, you get 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.600 some console games that will occasionally come out. They'll be 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.160 like the best of and it will be whatever the 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.720 old company was. Like, you can even get a version 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.000 of the I you really want it. Yeah, but that's 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.240 a little oh new one. They're making new ones now, 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.280 is that on thinking? I'm not sure the Dreamcast was. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.959 Somebody told me recently that they saw a new quote 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:09.920 unquote new packaged with some of the early games. That's 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.840 basically a relieve the past. That's the whole retro thing. 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:18.280 But they're there hundreds and hundreds of computer titles, PC titles, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.000 Windows titles, do space titles even that, Uh, well, we'll 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:28.000 probably never re emerge. And so the question comes, well, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.440 what's the best way of handling this. There are a 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.040 lot of sites out there that are dedicated to abandoned ware, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.520 and these sites are the really the ones that are 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.079 more legitimate, and I used the phrase loosely because again 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.720 we're talking about violating copyright one way or the other. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.679 But the ones that are more concerned with offering people 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.520 the chance to play games that are the equivalent to 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.800 being out of print or otherwise unavailable, um, they're very 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:01.000 much about not hosting what are also called wares Wares 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.040 would be kinds of software that's essentially pirated or duplicated 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.640 that's readily available on the market today. Basically the copy 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.960 protection has been cracked and you can use it. You know, 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.520 when I say freely, I don't mean you're allowed to 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.559 use it. I mean you don't have to code. So. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.040 But but the more the more legitimate abandoned ware sites 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.920 will only host games that you cannot get through any 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.600 other means unless you were defined like someone selling an 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.559 old copy. But you know that you wouldn't be able 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.720 to go to the publisher and buy it because sometimes 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.000 the publisher doesn't even exist. Well, um, there are there 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.400 are people out there who, in some of them are 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.240 content creators, who say there should be a more streamlined 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.559 way too for for companies to release abandoned ware so 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:55.720 that there isn't this, uh, this legal barrier, especially considering 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.920 the fact that software changes much more rapidly than say, print, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.360 and uh. One of them is Greg Castickian. Now do 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.360 you know who? Have you ever heard of? Greg Castickian. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.840 He's a He's a game designer who designs not just 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.280 computer games but also role playing games. His name is 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.040 really familiar to me, and I'm gonna go ah as 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.439 soon as you say, well, he's He's designed a lot 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.920 of stuff. Most of it is kind of has a 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:25.280 has sort of a satirical or otherwise humorous uh slant 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.200 to it. For example, he created an role playing game 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:32.160 called Tune back in nineteen four where you played as 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.760 a cartoon character within a cartoon episode. Every single adventure 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.880 was modeled after the idea of a seven minute cartoon episode, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.080 and you would have the capabilities of a cartoon character, 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.320 and you would have friends and enemies within the cartoon, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.920 and you could do these outlandish things. It was hilarious. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.760 He also created a game called Paranoia, which was all 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:58.400 about a post apocalyptic uh society where you live in 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.560 a a essentially like a a biodome kind of thing, 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.840 and a computer controls everything, but the computer is crazy 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.520 and paranoid and thinks everyone is out to get him, 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.760 and pretty much everyone is out to get him. And 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.160 then but anyway, they hope because al right, the whole 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.400 purpose of the game was to create this idea of paranoia. Well, 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.040 this guy, who created several different computer games as well, 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.560 said that actually, have a quote. Software is about as 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.800 ephemeral as you can get, yet preserving it is essential. 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.600 Illegal abandoned ware sites are providing a critical service to 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.200 game designers and scholars and gaming enthusiasts. They do, not, however, 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.200 provide a lasting and satisfactory solution to the problem because 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.360 they are illegal. So he was maintaining the point of 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.160 these old games that exist are important, and they're important 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.960 culturally because some of them were what helped usher in 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.560 the era of personal computers in the first place. I mean, 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.000 you know, personal computers were great for productivity, but there's 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.400 no denying that video games. Computer games really drove the 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:06.320 industry as well. And as the the technology advances, our 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.360 ability to access those old games decreases, and he says, 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.480 that's that's a shame. There should be a way to 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.240 preserve that. And also, as he points out, game designers, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.960 you know, some of these old games are very primitive 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.760 when it comes to the graphics or the sound, But 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.680 a lot of them had very innovative gameplay or very 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.640 compelling storylines and are great lessons for game designers to 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.960 to learn from. Sure, you know, I would argue the 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.720 old Ultimate series, for example, is a very valuable series 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.040 for people who want to create a storyline that spans 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.040 several episodes and has a very kind of deep um 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.200 and and immersive quality to it. Now, I should also 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.360 had that the Ultimate Series has regularly been released in 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.880 packages where you could buy it legitimately, So don't go 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.000 out there and start piotying games, look and make sure 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.680 or first before that, make sure there's a legitimate way 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.600 of getting it, and go that way before ever going 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:12.000 with abandoned ware route. But but yeah, as a producer 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.440 of games, he was pointing out that this is a 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:19.000 valuable service that abandoned weare sites are giving us that 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.240 without it, we would lose these games. And you know, 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.680 unless some company was like, hey, we need to roll 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.399 out another product or we're not going to hit our 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.359 revenue this year, what titles do we have in the 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.520 vault that we could package together hastily and then shove 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.439 out the door. And occasionally you see that happen. Well, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.320 it would be nice if some of the people who 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.800 own the copyrights to these would release these these programs 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.080 in some form um. You know, the the app stores 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.320 for the mobile devices have proven that, you know, even 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.320 even software that costs one or two dollars for a 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.440 copy of it can still make a decent amount of money. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.639 And you know, some of these titles are languishing an 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.439 obscurity when you know, people might really be willing to 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.760 pay one to five dollars for an opportunity to play 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.399 it again. It's not really a lot of money for 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.160 most people, and they might relish the opportunity to give 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.800 it another shot. I think we have the opportunity to 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:22.000 actually see that happen now because digital distribution is a reality, right, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.720 Like Chris and I can both remember a time where 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.560 you would go to your local computer store or electronics 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.880 store and there would always be that bin of the 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:35.560 old games that that were four three or four generations 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.320 behind the current stuff that's up on the shelves, and 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.159 you would sort through that ben and just look to 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.000 see if there were any hidden gems in there, and 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.159 then you find something like, oh, I always wanted to 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.040 play that, and you pick it up, and you know, 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.399 you might get a copy of Civilization that way. But 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:49.960 that was back in the old day where you would 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.920 get like the floppy disks I was thinking you were 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.080 talking about during the video game console crash, when you 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.120 would go into your corner drugs store and there would 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.280 be a bin of really horrible Attari cartridges for you know, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.800 a dollar, the same sort of thing where they were 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.600 just unloading their inventory. But those days are are you know, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.879 pretty much disappearing because you get to digital distribution, You 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.080 get to the era of the c D really started 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.520 to decrease it, but then digital distribution has has taken 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.720 a big hit on it too. But that also gives 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.560 the opportunity for companies to put potentially put up old 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.320 titles for you know, like the same price that you 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.040 would have for an app for for a smartphone. So 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:38.720 let's say that you throw up Mule, the old Mule game, 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:45.800 or ARCon ARCon Yeah, put those old us Populus, yes, um, 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:50.080 put these old games up on or battle Chess, these 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.000 old games up so that you can buy them for 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.440 like cents or whatever and and have you know, maybe 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.199 package it with a free emulator if you need it. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.439 Because some of these old games will not on on 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.600 your current system unless first put through an emulator. I 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.000 have old machines for strictly that purpose. And before before 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.000 you write in and say, you know, why do you 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.680 want people to spend this money, this property should be free, Well, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.760 that's an option too. It would be really cool if they, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:20.280 if these companies will released these games into the public domain. However, 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.480 I think they might have more incentive if uh they 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.600 charged a small price and then they would get something 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.840 in return for it. It's sort of like the Chris 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:35.200 Anderson's long tail and the online stores versus the brick 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.760 and mortar stores. I mean, if you put that up 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.680 for digital distribution, it could stay there virtually forever. You're 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.639 still going to be a handful of people that are 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.000 willing to fork over a couple of bucks for it. Yeah, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.240 and and I think I think that solution really provides 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.160 an elegant approach to this complicated issue because you've got, 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.320 for one thing, you know, it gives an incentive to 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.240 these companies to share this old stuff that you can't 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.920 otherwise get. Um and and people can relive like that 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.320 moment from their childhood when they played this one game 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.000 that they loved and now they can't they can't get 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.960 it anymore. Um. It also gives the the you know, 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.760 it gives the fans what they want. It's not prohibitively 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.600 expensive if you go with this this micro payment kind 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.199 of app approach. Um. And also it tells companies what 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.320 people are interested in. If you were to create an 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.840 a section of your site, for example, that hosted the 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.360 old titles for cheap purchase, and you saw that one 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.560 of those titles was getting hit like crazy, people were 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.840 just buying it up, you might think, you know, we 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.919 could probably do a follow up, like just do an 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.200 incredible follow up that is based on the same premise 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.160 of this original game, maybe not a remake, but even 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.919 perhaps a long awaited sequel and clean up, because we 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.240 didn't realize there was this interest in this old title 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.040 that we owned. Now, this does not solve the problem 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:05.080 for those titles where the ownership is up in the air, 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.440 like no one knows who owns this anymore. Those that's 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:10.879 still you're gonna you're still gonna have that problem where 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.119 if there's a title where you're not really sure that 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.520 the is the copyright holder of the guy who made 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.120 it is it this other company. Is it a company 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.199 that bought you know, bought a company that bought a 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.119 company that bought a company. That's where you start getting 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.959 two issues where these games maybe hopelessly mired in red tape. 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.760 That's just it's until you figure out who is the 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.399 owner of that copyright and who has the authority to 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.840 do this, it will never happen. And that you know, 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:40.760 the abandoned ware approach is pretty much the only way 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.400 you're gonna get hold of those games. Um, and it's 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.560 not a legitimate way. Yeah, now, okay, this is from 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.680 the from the perspective of the law. I'm sorry I 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.400 should say that, because sometimes I'm like, hey, you know what, 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.600 I love that game. I bought that game, I played 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.159 that game. There's no way for me to get it, 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:00.320 and my sense of entitlement is crying out. Before we 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:01.960 get to the end of the episode, I need to 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:12.080 take another quick break and thank our sponsor. Well, this 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:17.000 is where things get interesting. Um. Let's say you have 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:23.680 um an old at and you bought a copy of 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:27.600 Yards Revenge, and you have the machine, and you've got 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.960 the the game. It's it's in your basement, it's in 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:34.000 a box. But you got it, it's in storage unfortunately 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:39.560 doesn't work anymore, or you don't have an adapter, and 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:41.960 you really can't play because the machine is dead. But 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.560 I know, hey, it's a museum piece. So you hold 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.200