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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works in a love all things tech. And

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Speaker 1: it's Friday, which means it's time for a classic episode.

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Speaker 1: This one originally published on December twelve, two thousand eleven,

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Speaker 1: and it's called tech Stuff Looks for abandoned Ware, where

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Speaker 1: Chris and I talk about the concept of abandoned ware

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Speaker 1: and what that actually means. I hope you enjoy the

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Speaker 1: silence of a falling star lights up the purple sky,

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Speaker 1: and as I wonder where you are, I'm so lonesome

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Speaker 1: I could cry. Very nicely done, thank you. Today we

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Speaker 1: think Hank would have done it that way, Hank. So

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Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about abandoned ware. Yes, we

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Speaker 1: we've had requests to talk about abandoned ware, and this

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Speaker 1: is UM and we've talked about abandon were in the past,

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Speaker 1: just not as a dedicated topic. Yeah, we've also talked

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Speaker 1: about vaporware, which is a totally different thing, UM, if

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Speaker 1: you might wonder what the differences are. Vaporware is when

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Speaker 1: a company has announced or information is leaked out that

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Speaker 1: a company is working on a particular product, but that

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Speaker 1: probably never seems to actually go to market. Oh I

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Speaker 1: thought it was the kind of software that every once

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Speaker 1: in a while just make you feel light headed. I'm

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Speaker 1: already got a headache. I've already got a headache. So

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Speaker 1: that's different. I'll tell you what that means, and you'll

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Speaker 1: like it because you like that kind of humor. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The but no, the the abandoned ware is when a

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Speaker 1: company has produced a piece of well product mainly, but

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Speaker 1: we usually talk about in terms of software, and more

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Speaker 1: frequently than not, we talked about in terms of games,

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Speaker 1: although that's not the only kind of abandoned ware. But

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Speaker 1: the company produces this the the But then technology continues

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Speaker 1: to evolve over time, and yeah, no, it's crazy, right,

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Speaker 1: So they things like computers. Let's let's say a computer

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Speaker 1: it gets so advanced that it can no longer run

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Speaker 1: older software. Yeah, I'm aware of that. Yeah, where you

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Speaker 1: get to a point where you know, if software has

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Speaker 1: been produced before a certain point, your computer is not

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Speaker 1: really able to run it anymore because things have changed

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Speaker 1: so dramatically. And then companies will sort of stop supporting

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Speaker 1: this old software that they produced years ago. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: if they no longer provide any support or they've discontinued it,

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Speaker 1: that's abandoned. Where if a company creates some software that

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Speaker 1: is you know, it hits the market and then that

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Speaker 1: company ceases to exist, that software may be considered abandonware

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Speaker 1: because now there's no there's no place you can buy

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Speaker 1: it anymore because the company that was in charge of

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Speaker 1: it is gone. This can happen through an acquisition or

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Speaker 1: a merger where certain divisions get dissolved or merged into

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Speaker 1: other divisions that as a result, pieces of software no

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Speaker 1: longer have a kind of a a a shepherd really

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Speaker 1: to keep the software going. So what happens to that software?

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Speaker 1: What happens if you want to have access to that software?

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Speaker 1: How can you do it? Are there legal ways of

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Speaker 1: getting at it? And uh, it's a little complicated. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The uh, the in the context we brought it up

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Speaker 1: in before, we were talking about the multiple machine or

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Speaker 1: multiple arcade machine emulator. Name, Um, you coax the blues

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Speaker 1: right out of the horn. Sorry name name yes? Um?

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Speaker 1: Not a n T I yes? Um? So yeah, name

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Speaker 1: is for those of you who don't know, basically, a

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Speaker 1: way of uh running the programs that old arcade mean,

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Speaker 1: while actually not necessarily old that arcade machines would run

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Speaker 1: in their cabinets on a home computer. Right now, keep

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Speaker 1: in mind that arcade machine, the software for those machines

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Speaker 1: was built specifically for the hardware inside the arcade machine.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't opening up an arcade cabinet and find a

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Speaker 1: a computer in there, right, It wouldn't look like a computer.

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Speaker 1: It would look like a whole bunch of different chips

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Speaker 1: wired together. And uh yeah, and and so it's hardwired

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Speaker 1: into the the hardware, like you know, you don't have

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Speaker 1: you don't put a disc in at least not most

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Speaker 1: arcade games. I know there are a few that run

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Speaker 1: on laser disc, but that's not what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about like it's reading directly from a chip.

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Speaker 1: A similar example would be when you if you ever

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Speaker 1: played console games that used cartridges. The cartridge had the

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Speaker 1: ROM on it, right, and the console just had the

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Speaker 1: the technology to read the ROM and then translate that

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Speaker 1: into a game. So for a computer, you would have

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Speaker 1: to create an emulator, something that could create an environment

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Speaker 1: similar to the hardware that you would find inside that

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Speaker 1: arcade machine in order for you to run the rom

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Speaker 1: on a computer. And sometimes this would work well and

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Speaker 1: you would have a pretty uh similar experience as to

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Speaker 1: if you were sitting in front of an arcade machine

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Speaker 1: and playing it. And in some cases it doesn't work

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Speaker 1: so well because the computer's architecture and the arcade architecture

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Speaker 1: are so different that the game stutters or just runs

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Speaker 1: really slowly. Yeah, So then you have, uh the question

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Speaker 1: you you're able to run this uh software and on

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Speaker 1: your home computer, and you have something like say Kangaroo,

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Speaker 1: and you want to play Kangaroo on your home computer,

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Speaker 1: and you go, wait a minute, Atari still exists. I mean,

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Speaker 1: truth is it's a different Attari technically, but they own

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Speaker 1: the copyright for that stuff. Now you know. That's one thing.

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Speaker 1: Then on the other hand, you have something like say Defender,

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Speaker 1: and then you say, okay, well who owns the stuff

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Speaker 1: that Williams used to make? Or Robotron for that matter.

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Speaker 1: Um okay, So that's that's one version. Um My. My

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Speaker 1: other example was was going to be I was gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you if you thought that if I brought my

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Speaker 1: copy of Deluxe Video Construction Set to Electronic Arts for Miamiga.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they'd support it, or cement for that matter,

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Speaker 1: from Maxis before it was acquired by Electronic Arts. I

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Speaker 1: don't think so. But the thing is, the question is

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Speaker 1: you know I can legally use that software because I

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Speaker 1: still own the disks for sim AT even though I

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Speaker 1: never really had enough memory in mi Amiga to run it.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't be able to distribute it. I can't distribute it,

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Speaker 1: but I legally can run that all I want to. Now,

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Speaker 1: for something like Maime the in in some cases the

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Speaker 1: manufacturer is still around, in some cases it's a different

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Speaker 1: version of the manufacturer who legally owns the copyright, and

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Speaker 1: in other cases the manufacturer is gone and it's hard

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Speaker 1: to identify who, if anybody, owns the copyright. And this

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Speaker 1: actually is it presents some seriously thorny legal issues, right,

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Speaker 1: So let's let's clear things up a little bit here. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if there is an old piece of software, it's available

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Speaker 1: online and there hasn't been any express permission from the

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Speaker 1: copyright holder that that software can be distributed, distributing that

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Speaker 1: software is illegal. Yes, it violates copyright. Now, that being said,

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Speaker 1: copyright is one of those things that only works if

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Speaker 1: you exercise your right to the copyright. In other words,

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Speaker 1: the copyright owner would have to pursue action against anyone

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Speaker 1: distributing that content. So if you are if you come

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Speaker 1: across an old game from the the late eighties, let's say,

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Speaker 1: and it's an old doss based game on the little

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Speaker 1: from the late eighties, and you wanted to you love

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Speaker 1: this game and you want other people to explore this

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Speaker 1: game and experience this game, and there is no way

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Speaker 1: to buy the game because the game, the company doesn't exist,

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Speaker 1: or the company still exists but no longer markets this

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Speaker 1: game or supports it. Then you might feel, well, what's

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Speaker 1: the harm? I mean, no one's no one's trying to

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Speaker 1: make money off of this. No one is losing money

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Speaker 1: off of this because there's no way to legitimately get

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Speaker 1: ahold of this. Why is there an issue? And it's

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Speaker 1: all because of that copyright, and the copyright holder may

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Speaker 1: choose to not pursue action. It doesn't mean that it's legal.

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Speaker 1: It just means the copyright holder is allowing the that

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Speaker 1: material to be distributed. Said, wouldn't you know what I

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Speaker 1: picked a bad example for a video game was just

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Speaker 1: its kangaroo? Really Attari it was distributed by Atari, but

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Speaker 1: actually it was a product by Sun Electronics. Did you

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Speaker 1: wear like little boxing gloves in that game and you

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Speaker 1: had to box stuff as a kangaroo? I vaguely remember

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Speaker 1: playing that. It was it was it was very Donkey

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Speaker 1: Kong like because you climbed up to the top and

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Speaker 1: had to find your Joey, you know, the baby kangaroo. Right.

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Speaker 1: So anyhow, so substitute Centipede for what I said before.

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Speaker 1: Chris and I will be back to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about abandonware in just a second, but first

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: So getting back to copyrights. Now, a copyright, the term

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Speaker 1: of a copyright right now lasts for in the United States,

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Speaker 1: last for seventy five years from the creation of the work,

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Speaker 1: unless it's a work for higher right years, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: a work for higher would be last even longer, and

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Speaker 1: most of these, I guess would be considered work for high,

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Speaker 1: which is why I brought it up. That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: So in other words, this is software that is going

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Speaker 1: to be is still protected by copyright and will be

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Speaker 1: for pretty much our lifetime, right, I mean, some of

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Speaker 1: us might get really lucky to maybe the Singularity will hit,

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Speaker 1: and it won't, that won't be a problem. But at

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Speaker 1: that point, who's playing video games? But if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to play Space War, you're probably in fairly decent shape

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Speaker 1: because that was created so much earlier than this stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the games that were created in the eighties. Um, even

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Speaker 1: our our younger listeners would have problems with this all

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Speaker 1: the way through. So by legal definition, strictly, going by that,

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Speaker 1: it is not there's no real recourse unless the copyright

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Speaker 1: holder gives permission for distribution or releases the copyright into

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Speaker 1: the public domain. Now at that point, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: weird to call the software abandoned ware, because abandonware really

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Speaker 1: means this software that doesn't have really any support or

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Speaker 1: or access through legitimate channels, So it's not like it's

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Speaker 1: abandoned where that point is just public to main work,

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Speaker 1: so it becomes more like shareware in a way. But

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Speaker 1: a copyright holder does have that option. Uh, And in

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Speaker 1: some cases you you see companies take advantage of old, old,

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Speaker 1: old libraries of content and repackage them and and market

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Speaker 1: them again, which would mean that you wouldn't want to

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Speaker 1: host those abandoned ware games on your site, for example,

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Speaker 1: because they are actually making money from this old content

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Speaker 1: and there are legitimate ways to get hold of it.

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Speaker 1: A good example of that as Atari, because you've got

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Speaker 1: the old Atari games that get repackaged occasionally as an

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Speaker 1: app for a smartphone or tablet device. Also, you get

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Speaker 1: some console games that will occasionally come out. They'll be

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Speaker 1: like the best of and it will be whatever the

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Speaker 1: old company was. Like, you can even get a version

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Speaker 1: of the I you really want it. Yeah, but that's

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Speaker 1: a little oh new one. They're making new ones now,

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Speaker 1: is that on thinking? I'm not sure the Dreamcast was.

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Speaker 1: Somebody told me recently that they saw a new quote

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Speaker 1: unquote new packaged with some of the early games. That's

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Speaker 1: basically a relieve the past. That's the whole retro thing.

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Speaker 1: But they're there hundreds and hundreds of computer titles, PC titles,

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Speaker 1: Windows titles, do space titles even that, Uh, well, we'll

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Speaker 1: probably never re emerge. And so the question comes, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the best way of handling this. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of sites out there that are dedicated to abandoned ware,

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Speaker 1: and these sites are the really the ones that are

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Speaker 1: more legitimate, and I used the phrase loosely because again

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Speaker 1: we're talking about violating copyright one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: But the ones that are more concerned with offering people

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Speaker 1: the chance to play games that are the equivalent to

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Speaker 1: being out of print or otherwise unavailable, um, they're very

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Speaker 1: much about not hosting what are also called wares Wares

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Speaker 1: would be kinds of software that's essentially pirated or duplicated

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Speaker 1: that's readily available on the market today. Basically the copy

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Speaker 1: protection has been cracked and you can use it. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I say freely, I don't mean you're allowed to

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Speaker 1: use it. I mean you don't have to code. So.

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Speaker 1: But but the more the more legitimate abandoned ware sites

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Speaker 1: will only host games that you cannot get through any

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Speaker 1: other means unless you were defined like someone selling an

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Speaker 1: old copy. But you know that you wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to go to the publisher and buy it because sometimes

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Speaker 1: the publisher doesn't even exist. Well, um, there are there

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Speaker 1: are people out there who, in some of them are

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Speaker 1: content creators, who say there should be a more streamlined

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Speaker 1: way too for for companies to release abandoned ware so

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Speaker 1: that there isn't this, uh, this legal barrier, especially considering

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Speaker 1: the fact that software changes much more rapidly than say, print,

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Speaker 1: and uh. One of them is Greg Castickian. Now do

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Speaker 1: you know who? Have you ever heard of? Greg Castickian.

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Speaker 1: He's a He's a game designer who designs not just

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Speaker 1: computer games but also role playing games. His name is

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Speaker 1: really familiar to me, and I'm gonna go ah as

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Speaker 1: soon as you say, well, he's He's designed a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Most of it is kind of has a

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Speaker 1: has sort of a satirical or otherwise humorous uh slant

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Speaker 1: to it. For example, he created an role playing game

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Speaker 1: called Tune back in nineteen four where you played as

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Speaker 1: a cartoon character within a cartoon episode. Every single adventure

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Speaker 1: was modeled after the idea of a seven minute cartoon episode,

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Speaker 1: and you would have the capabilities of a cartoon character,

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Speaker 1: and you would have friends and enemies within the cartoon,

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Speaker 1: and you could do these outlandish things. It was hilarious.

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Speaker 1: He also created a game called Paranoia, which was all

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Speaker 1: about a post apocalyptic uh society where you live in

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Speaker 1: a a essentially like a a biodome kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and a computer controls everything, but the computer is crazy

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Speaker 1: and paranoid and thinks everyone is out to get him,

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Speaker 1: and pretty much everyone is out to get him. And

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Speaker 1: then but anyway, they hope because al right, the whole

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Speaker 1: purpose of the game was to create this idea of paranoia. Well,

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Speaker 1: this guy, who created several different computer games as well,

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Speaker 1: said that actually, have a quote. Software is about as

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Speaker 1: ephemeral as you can get, yet preserving it is essential.

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Speaker 1: Illegal abandoned ware sites are providing a critical service to

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Speaker 1: game designers and scholars and gaming enthusiasts. They do, not, however,

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Speaker 1: provide a lasting and satisfactory solution to the problem because

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Speaker 1: they are illegal. So he was maintaining the point of

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Speaker 1: these old games that exist are important, and they're important

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Speaker 1: culturally because some of them were what helped usher in

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Speaker 1: the era of personal computers in the first place. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, personal computers were great for productivity, but there's

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Speaker 1: no denying that video games. Computer games really drove the

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Speaker 1: industry as well. And as the the technology advances, our

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Speaker 1: ability to access those old games decreases, and he says,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a shame. There should be a way to

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Speaker 1: preserve that. And also, as he points out, game designers,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of these old games are very primitive

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the graphics or the sound, But

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Speaker 1: a lot of them had very innovative gameplay or very

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Speaker 1: compelling storylines and are great lessons for game designers to

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Speaker 1: to learn from. Sure, you know, I would argue the

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Speaker 1: old Ultimate series, for example, is a very valuable series

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Speaker 1: for people who want to create a storyline that spans

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Speaker 1: several episodes and has a very kind of deep um

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Speaker 1: and and immersive quality to it. Now, I should also

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Speaker 1: had that the Ultimate Series has regularly been released in

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Speaker 1: packages where you could buy it legitimately, So don't go

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Speaker 1: out there and start piotying games, look and make sure

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Speaker 1: or first before that, make sure there's a legitimate way

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Speaker 1: of getting it, and go that way before ever going

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Speaker 1: with abandoned ware route. But but yeah, as a producer

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Speaker 1: of games, he was pointing out that this is a

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Speaker 1: valuable service that abandoned weare sites are giving us that

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Speaker 1: without it, we would lose these games. And you know,

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Speaker 1: unless some company was like, hey, we need to roll

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Speaker 1: out another product or we're not going to hit our

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Speaker 1: revenue this year, what titles do we have in the

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Speaker 1: vault that we could package together hastily and then shove

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Speaker 1: out the door. And occasionally you see that happen. Well,

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Speaker 1: it would be nice if some of the people who

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Speaker 1: own the copyrights to these would release these these programs

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Speaker 1: in some form um. You know, the the app stores

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Speaker 1: for the mobile devices have proven that, you know, even

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Speaker 1: even software that costs one or two dollars for a

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Speaker 1: copy of it can still make a decent amount of money.

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Speaker 1: And you know, some of these titles are languishing an

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Speaker 1: obscurity when you know, people might really be willing to

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Speaker 1: pay one to five dollars for an opportunity to play

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Speaker 1: it again. It's not really a lot of money for

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Speaker 1: most people, and they might relish the opportunity to give

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Speaker 1: it another shot. I think we have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: actually see that happen now because digital distribution is a reality, right,

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Speaker 1: Like Chris and I can both remember a time where

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Speaker 1: you would go to your local computer store or electronics

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Speaker 1: store and there would always be that bin of the

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Speaker 1: old games that that were four three or four generations

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Speaker 1: behind the current stuff that's up on the shelves, and

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Speaker 1: you would sort through that ben and just look to

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Speaker 1: see if there were any hidden gems in there, and

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Speaker 1: then you find something like, oh, I always wanted to

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Speaker 1: play that, and you pick it up, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you might get a copy of Civilization that way. But

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Speaker 1: that was back in the old day where you would

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Speaker 1: get like the floppy disks I was thinking you were

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Speaker 1: talking about during the video game console crash, when you

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Speaker 1: would go into your corner drugs store and there would

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Speaker 1: be a bin of really horrible Attari cartridges for you know,

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Speaker 1: a dollar, the same sort of thing where they were

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Speaker 1: just unloading their inventory. But those days are are you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty much disappearing because you get to digital distribution, You

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Speaker 1: get to the era of the c D really started

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Speaker 1: to decrease it, but then digital distribution has has taken

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Speaker 1: a big hit on it too. But that also gives

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Speaker 1: the opportunity for companies to put potentially put up old

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Speaker 1: titles for you know, like the same price that you

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Speaker 1: would have for an app for for a smartphone. So

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Speaker 1: let's say that you throw up Mule, the old Mule game,

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Speaker 1: or ARCon ARCon Yeah, put those old us Populus, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: put these old games up on or battle Chess, these

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Speaker 1: old games up so that you can buy them for

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Speaker 1: like cents or whatever and and have you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: package it with a free emulator if you need it.

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Speaker 1: Because some of these old games will not on on

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Speaker 1: your current system unless first put through an emulator. I

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Speaker 1: have old machines for strictly that purpose. And before before

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Speaker 1: you write in and say, you know, why do you

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Speaker 1: want people to spend this money, this property should be free, Well,

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00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: that's an option too. It would be really cool if they,

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Speaker 1: if these companies will released these games into the public domain. However,

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00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: I think they might have more incentive if uh they

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Speaker 1: charged a small price and then they would get something

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Speaker 1: in return for it. It's sort of like the Chris

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Speaker 1: Anderson's long tail and the online stores versus the brick

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Speaker 1: and mortar stores. I mean, if you put that up

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Speaker 1: for digital distribution, it could stay there virtually forever. You're

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Speaker 1: still going to be a handful of people that are

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Speaker 1: willing to fork over a couple of bucks for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and I think I think that solution really provides

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Speaker 1: an elegant approach to this complicated issue because you've got,

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Speaker 1: for one thing, you know, it gives an incentive to

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Speaker 1: these companies to share this old stuff that you can't

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Speaker 1: otherwise get. Um and and people can relive like that

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Speaker 1: moment from their childhood when they played this one game

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Speaker 1: that they loved and now they can't they can't get

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Speaker 1: it anymore. Um. It also gives the the you know,

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Speaker 1: it gives the fans what they want. It's not prohibitively

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Speaker 1: expensive if you go with this this micro payment kind

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Speaker 1: of app approach. Um. And also it tells companies what

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Speaker 1: people are interested in. If you were to create an

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Speaker 1: a section of your site, for example, that hosted the

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Speaker 1: old titles for cheap purchase, and you saw that one

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Speaker 1: of those titles was getting hit like crazy, people were

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Speaker 1: just buying it up, you might think, you know, we

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Speaker 1: could probably do a follow up, like just do an

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Speaker 1: incredible follow up that is based on the same premise

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Speaker 1: of this original game, maybe not a remake, but even

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Speaker 1: perhaps a long awaited sequel and clean up, because we

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Speaker 1: didn't realize there was this interest in this old title

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Speaker 1: that we owned. Now, this does not solve the problem

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Speaker 1: for those titles where the ownership is up in the air,

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Speaker 1: like no one knows who owns this anymore. Those that's

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Speaker 1: still you're gonna you're still gonna have that problem where

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Speaker 1: if there's a title where you're not really sure that

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Speaker 1: the is the copyright holder of the guy who made

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Speaker 1: it is it this other company. Is it a company

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Speaker 1: that bought you know, bought a company that bought a

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Speaker 1: company that bought a company. That's where you start getting

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00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,959
Speaker 1: two issues where these games maybe hopelessly mired in red tape.

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Speaker 1: That's just it's until you figure out who is the

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00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: owner of that copyright and who has the authority to

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Speaker 1: do this, it will never happen. And that you know,

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Speaker 1: the abandoned ware approach is pretty much the only way

384
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna get hold of those games. Um, and it's

385
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: not a legitimate way. Yeah, now, okay, this is from

386
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Speaker 1: the from the perspective of the law. I'm sorry I

387
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: should say that, because sometimes I'm like, hey, you know what,

388
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Speaker 1: I love that game. I bought that game, I played

389
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: that game. There's no way for me to get it,

390
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: and my sense of entitlement is crying out. Before we

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Speaker 1: get to the end of the episode, I need to

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Speaker 1: take another quick break and thank our sponsor. Well, this

393
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: is where things get interesting. Um. Let's say you have

394
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Speaker 1: um an old at and you bought a copy of

395
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: Yards Revenge, and you have the machine, and you've got

396
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: the the game. It's it's in your basement, it's in

397
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: a box. But you got it, it's in storage unfortunately

398
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: doesn't work anymore, or you don't have an adapter, and

399
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: you really can't play because the machine is dead. But

400
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: I know, hey, it's a museum piece. So you hold

401
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: onto it and then you find an emulator for your

402
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: computer with yours Revenge where you can play the a

403
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: version of it. The thing is from what I understand. Again,

404
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,239
Speaker 1: keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer, but theoretically, from

405
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: what I understand, you're entitled to play that because you

406
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: have a copy of the game. You already paid for it,

407
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: you have a copy of the game in your possession,

408
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: You're legally entitled to play it. Because the reason I

409
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: get this is from the disclaimers on the main sites.

410
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: They say that if you have a copy of the ROMs, basically,

411
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: if you have the guts of the arcade machine, the chips,

412
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: then legally you can play it a game. Otherwise you

413
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: are that's why they haven't been shut down. Yeah, Otherwise,

414
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: you're only supposed to hold onto a ROM up to

415
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and then after that you're supposed to

416
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: delete it. Yes you you Yeah, you as a person

417
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: who downloaded the ROM from that site, not not the

418
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: sites themselves, But if you own a legal copy of

419
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: the ROM, you're supposed to be able to play it

420
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: even if the machine that you had it on. Now,

421
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: I imagine that's there. There's some probably legal gray area where,

422
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: you know, if if the copyright police they don't exist.

423
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: But hey, the copyright police come to your house. They

424
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: wait a minute. You're is broken. You're not supposed to

425
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: play it on your home computer. Are supposed to play

426
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: on this machine. You're in trouble man. The thing is,

427
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: for one thing, there aren't any copyright police, not specifically

428
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: copyright police. And you know, for a lot of people,

429
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: this just people aren't gonna bother doing it. I mean,

430
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: they're not gonna sue Jonathan because you know that's the thing.

431
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: They say that you can sue anybody in America for anything,

432
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: but generally people sue people who have money. So so

433
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: they're not going to come out. Yeah, they're not gonna

434
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: come after Jonathan or me for doing that unless they

435
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 1: really believe that they can prosecute us with good cause

436
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 1: and are going to get something. You know, this worth

437
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: putting the time and money into a legal case for

438
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: doing this. And and that's even more so for these

439
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: companies and organizations that don't exist. And that's why that's

440
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: the biggest case I've seen for making abandoned ware and legal.

441
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: Basically saying, hey, company X doesn't exist, this is a

442
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: great game, I want to play it. I would give

443
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: them twenty dollars if they were still around, but there's

444
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: no way to pay please. You know, technically, technically it's illegal. Yeah. Yeah,

445
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: and the law, by the letter of the law, it's illegal.

446
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: And again, if if the copyright holder doesn't pursue any

447
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: action against you, then you're in the clear. And in

448
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: in almost every single case that's gonna be. That's gonna

449
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: be what happens if you if you run an abandoned

450
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: ware site, you might occasionally get a takedown notice from

451
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: a copyright holder, and then of course you should very

452
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: much adhere to that if you don't want to encounter

453
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: legal difficulties. It used to have pants and if you

454
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: have them, suit off of you. Yeah. By the way,

455
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: it gets drafty. Here's here's a pop quiz. Hot shot,

456
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: so hot shot. Yeah, the guy who the guy who

457
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: made Yards Revenge, he made another very famous Atari game.

458
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: Do you know what it was? Who was the main

459
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Yards Avenge. It was Howard Scott Warsaw, the actual game

460
00:26:52,880 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: designer who don't e t the extraterrestrial. I don't blame him.

461
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: He was something very quickly, but yes, one of the

462
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: yards Revenge was one of the games that was considered

463
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: to be a big hit with his Hardy twenty six hundred,

464
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: followed by a game that that often people credit as

465
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: killing not just the Autori, but the video game industry,

466
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: the home video game industry as a whole in nine three.

467
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: He was just following orders. That was just some trivia

468
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: for all of you guys. So lest you think we

469
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: are telling you to run out and download all the

470
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: abandoned where you want and play it, we're not telling

471
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: you to do that because that would be illegal. What

472
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: we're telling you is there's some awesome games that are

473
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: out there, and some of them are hosted on abandoned

474
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: ware sites, and man, those games are neat and you

475
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: know what, I'm pretty sure the copyright holders wouldn't come

476
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: after you, But don't do it. If you don't really

477
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: go back and redo that you if you do that,

478
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: it would be technically ill. Yes, it is technically illegal,

479
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: whether or not a shame, whether or not. It's unethical

480
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: is another question. Unethical and illegal are two different things. Yeah,

481
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: and unethical that's a weird question too. Yeah, because again,

482
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: if there's if there's no one to pay, then those

483
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: games essentially are forgotten. They're gone. You might as well

484
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: do the same thing, like this book came out in

485
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, we're locking it away in this library and

486
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: you have no access to the library. In fact, no

487
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: one has any access to the library, and it's it's

488
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: gonna stay there in the library. So you could have

489
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: access to it if we opened up the door, but

490
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: we're not gonna see That's that's an issue, right because

491
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: then you're like, well, what's the point of it even

492
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: existing if no one can use it? So yeah, there's

493
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: there is an the ethical and the ethical standpoints different

494
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: from the legality standpoint. This is definitely a technology issue too,

495
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: because if you really want to read Beowulf, there's a

496
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: copy in print somewhere, probably it's a local bookstore, possibly

497
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: in a used bookstore. It's not even gettingto that. But

498
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: it's also the thing is you can find a copy

499
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: of it. You can download it for free on the

500
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: internet because it's out of copyright I'm pretty sure it's

501
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 1: in the public domain, I would think. But the thing

502
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: about it is for the technology behind these games, you

503
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: know that that is one of the issues behind it.

504
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: And there's there's the other thing too. Uh. In case

505
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: you're saying, well, you're just talking about games, really, do

506
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: you want to you want to download a copy of

507
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: physicalc so you can run that? Really? Yeah, that's the

508
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: the other part of that. I mean, people don't Adobe

509
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: won't necessarily support Photoshop three. Um, you could probably find

510
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: a copy of it somewhere out there, but you know,

511
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: I would consider that to an effect abandoned where too,

512
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: because they've moved so far beyond that point. It's been

513
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: on a print for so many years, you're on your own. Um.

514
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: But legally, if you've downloaded a copy of it, a

515
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: cracked copy of it online, you'd be in the same boat.

516
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: But the reason we're talking about games predominantly is because

517
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: that's the stuff that people go back to. Ye. The

518
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: reason that people in a lot of cases keep old

519
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: gaming machines around just because every once in a while

520
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: that nostalgia thing hits. But I don't think you find

521
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: it for something like a spreadsheet or work for a

522
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: legacy issue, in which case that could be In some

523
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: cases that's that's an issue too. But I think I

524
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: think it's used more abandoned wears more in the minds

525
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: of a lot of people for games simply because there's

526
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: that nostalgia and retro factor. Yeah, I'm thinking back to

527
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: some of the games I I used to love to

528
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: play that I would I would really enjoy seeing an

529
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: updated version of that game, or or having the ability

530
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: to play the old one again, like um Tie Fighter. Yeah,

531
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: and now that one has a double whamy against it, right,

532
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: because it's a licensed game, not just a not just

533
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: not just the fact that you've got the software and everything,

534
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: but you've got the actual content that's all. Yeah, that's

535
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: a much more complex situation. Well, it was LucasArts. It

536
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: was Lucas Arts, so great game, fantastic game. Wish that

537
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: they would come out with a new one. And then

538
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: there's hint, Well you've seen you've seen the success of

539
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: the Monkey Island franchisees it's renewed and Island and Oregon

540
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: Trail as it has popped up on Facebook and and on. Yeah,

541
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: but I mean that's the funny thing about some of

542
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: the stuff. Um can be updated and refreshed and people

543
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: and added dimension things that she couldn't do thirty years ago. Um,

544
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: there's no there's some such good reason to update and

545
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: keep these things around, right and and again, like I said,

546
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: if they took my approach where they host that abandoned

547
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: where they reclaimed the abandoned ware and host it for

548
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: super cheap, they might be able to find out what

549
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: trends people are really gravitating toward, and that could help

550
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: them design their next game. It's all part of Jonathan's

551
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: plot to take over the world. Look, there's certain games

552
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: I want to play, and I'm desperately trying to get

553
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: them to back my plans so that I can. I

554
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: can shut shut. I'll hand over the money. I am

555
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: more than happy to purchase this game. Well, that wraps

556
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: up abandoned ware for the time being. Of course, we're

557
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: seeing software getting abandoned all the time. Things just sometimes

558
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: peter out, So I'll probably do a follow up on

559
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: this in the future. But if you've got any suggestions

560
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: for topics I should tackle, make sure you let me

561
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: know about them. Go visit our website, It's tech stuff

562
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You'll find all the different ways to

563
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: contact me there. I greatly appreciate hearing from you guys,

564
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: and I look forward to it. Also, don't forget to

565
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: visit t public dot com slash tech stuff. That's where

566
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: you can find the merchandise store. Every single purchase you

567
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: make goes to help the show. We've got stickers, t shirts,

568
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: tote bags, all sorts of different stuff with lots of

569
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: different designs, So please check that out and I'll talk

570
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: to you again really soon. For more on this and

571
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot

572
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 1: com