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Speaker 1: I am Yamla.

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Speaker 2: I've been very open about the fact that I was

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Speaker 2: not always good at making my relationships work. I have

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Speaker 2: been divorced three times, twice from the same person. In

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Speaker 2: other words, I have seen a lot and failed a

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Speaker 2: lot in my relationships. So I am here to share

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Speaker 2: with you what I learned along the way, because I

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Speaker 2: did take copious notes. Welcome to the R Spot, a

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Speaker 2: production of shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the R Spot. I Ami Yamla, your facilitator, support,

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Speaker 2: your sister, woman, your friend, your guide posts as we

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Speaker 2: del deeper into these conversations about relationships, all kinds of

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Speaker 2: relationships as the universal classroom for becoming.

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Speaker 1: More of the truth of who we are.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, relationships, relationships, relationships. I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: any more important than those parental relationships.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know.

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Speaker 2: About you, but mine was not what I would have

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Speaker 2: created had I gone into the room with the pot

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Speaker 2: to make it. And mine wasn't either with my father,

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Speaker 2: who was emotionally unavailable, or my mother.

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Speaker 1: Who was deceased.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, nobody bothered to tell me that my mother was dead,

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Speaker 2: so I grew up thinking one woman was my mother,

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Speaker 2: who wasn't thanks to my father.

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Speaker 1: Anyway.

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Speaker 2: That's the story. The outcome is what you have before you.

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Speaker 2: So it's all good, Ah, everything the way it needs

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Speaker 2: to be. That was all my docket. That was my

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Speaker 2: curriculum and nothing. That's what I lived through. I guess

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Speaker 2: it was also on my docutent in my curriculum. To

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Speaker 2: marry the same man twice. I didn't get enough the

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Speaker 2: first time. I had to go back and get it again.

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Speaker 2: But I learned something, you know. I left him the

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Speaker 2: first time, and he left me the second time.

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Speaker 1: And one of my.

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Speaker 2: Teachers told me, you never really heal a thing until

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Speaker 2: you experience it from both sides. Until what you think

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Speaker 2: someone has done to you you do it to them.

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Speaker 2: That's when the fullness of your healing is unfolding. So

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Speaker 2: I am healed of the need to marry the same

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Speaker 2: person twice, and I also understand why I did it,

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Speaker 2: But it was a function of my parental relationship. He

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Speaker 2: was my father, and I was trying to accomplish with

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Speaker 2: him everything that I had never accomplished with my father.

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Speaker 2: And once I got that, we were both free. Your

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Speaker 2: parental relationships.

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Speaker 1: It's important.

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Speaker 2: That's why today, for this very important conversation, I have

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Speaker 2: a guess. You know I do love a guest. My

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Speaker 2: guest today is Ker Gains.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's a.

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Speaker 2: Young and I love him. I saw him when I

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Speaker 2: went to the White House. It was so exciting. I

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Speaker 2: love you young people who are out here doing the

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Speaker 2: work because the more work you do, the less I

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Speaker 2: have to do. I'm tired, I'm old. I want y'all

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Speaker 2: to get on it and get it done. Okay, But

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Speaker 2: he is a licensed therapist, a black man, young black man,

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Speaker 2: licensed therapist. That also tells me that at some point

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Speaker 2: in his life he was absolutely crazy, but we're not

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Speaker 2: going to have that conversation. He's also a mental health advocate.

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Speaker 2: That means he really supports and is doing it on

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Speaker 2: the social media. I don't know if it's the Tiki

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Speaker 2: Taki Hill or whoever you know me and the social media,

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Speaker 2: but he's putting it out there and he's an accomplished speaker.

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Speaker 2: He does his things on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: It's got a.

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Speaker 2: Huge following because people love his realness as his authenticity,

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Speaker 2: and you young ands like to relate to each other,

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Speaker 2: so he's not like me all with you know, dyed

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Speaker 2: gray hair.

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Speaker 1: He is out there, he's.

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Speaker 2: Young and he knows. He probably knows who's number one

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Speaker 2: on the chot. I don't know none of that.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you give me too much credit, now, I too

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Speaker 3: much credit. Now.

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Speaker 2: He's a dad and he's a husband, and he's still

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Speaker 2: doing his work in the world.

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Speaker 1: You can have it all, beloved.

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Speaker 2: You can take care of you, you can grow in you,

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Speaker 2: and you can serve others caregames.

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Speaker 3: What an intro, good gracious. I need you to follow

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Speaker 3: me everywhere I go and just say that to people

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I will, I'll record it for you.

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Speaker 2: He comes from Southeast DC for me as a Brooklyn Knight.

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Speaker 2: That's Brownsville, right on the border of East New York

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Speaker 2: Southeast d C.

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Speaker 1: And that's where he learned.

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Speaker 2: And developed his commitment to support his community, to support

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Speaker 2: his brothers and his sisters.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't stay there.

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Speaker 2: He been to the White House, he been to Nasau Nasa.

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Speaker 2: He's done some stuff with an Amazon movie, and he

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Speaker 2: knows my good girlfriends Miss o Oprah Winfrey and Ms

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Speaker 2: v Viola Davis and people are lifting acknowledging him for

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Speaker 2: his authentic approach. We're gonna talk today, Kiir Gaines and

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Speaker 2: I here on the R spot. Welcome, Welcome, Kiir. So

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Speaker 2: glad to have you.

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Speaker 3: As I could have just sat and listened to that

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Speaker 3: all day. That was such a beautiful introduction. I've watched

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Speaker 3: you on my TV screen for so long that this

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Speaker 3: don't even feel real right now. They don't feel real,

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Speaker 3: But I am glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I want to ask you this question

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Speaker 2: straight up because a lot of my listeners are women,

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Speaker 2: and you, regardless of the age, I know what you're

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Speaker 2: going to say. Well, I don't know what you're going

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Speaker 2: to say, and if I did know, I probably forgot.

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Speaker 1: But in your.

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Speaker 2: Heart when I was reading your bio and listening to

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Speaker 2: some of your things, because you've talked about it, you

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Speaker 2: were raised by a single mom in Southeast DC. So

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Speaker 2: here's my inquiry. I want to make this inquiry. I

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Speaker 2: don't ask questions anymore. I inquire how does a fatherless

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Speaker 2: son learn how to be a good dad? I mean,

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Speaker 2: what's the model that you follow? What are the tools

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Speaker 2: that you need? How did you learn that? I want

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Speaker 2: to know your story?

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Speaker 3: You know, I just I lean into what feels good.

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Speaker 3: I think one intrinsic part of masculinity that I've grown

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Speaker 3: to resent is this narrow definition of how you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to operate. Like I even talked to my friends, I'm

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Speaker 3: a member of the fraternity, your all time shout out

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Speaker 3: on Megasife five fraternity route to the brus my brothers,

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Speaker 3: but those are those are excellent men. They deserve that

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Speaker 3: shout out. But even in that community and men, they

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Speaker 3: are excellent fathers. But without here sometimes is this belief

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Speaker 3: of I gotta be hard on my sons and I

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Speaker 3: have to roll out this benevolent carpet of princess treatment

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Speaker 3: for my daughters. And I'm like, well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: what if you reverse the roles and you laid out

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Speaker 3: that benevolent, warm love to your sons and you can

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Speaker 3: see the brain kind of dysfunctioning and saying, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: that's not in my scheme of how manhood is supposed

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Speaker 3: to work. And it's but that's how you develop a strong, healthy, secure,

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Speaker 3: conscientious man. And I think my mom did a really

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Speaker 3: good job of that. So I leaning on what feels good.

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Speaker 3: I trust my instincts, I trust my heart. I believe

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Speaker 3: that men can be warm and still not to be

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Speaker 3: played with. I believe that men could be soft and

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Speaker 3: he will be very strong. I believe that men can

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Speaker 3: defer to the genius of the people around them and

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Speaker 3: still be a strong leader. So that's that's kind of

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Speaker 3: what I shift into. I don't I don't think that.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are a lot of men that were

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Speaker 3: raised by their fathers and raised in the wrong direction.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't necessarily teach them how to be good dads. You

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Speaker 3: take your experience into account, you take who you are

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Speaker 3: into account. You listen, and you try to be the

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Speaker 3: best that you can be with the bandwidth that you

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Speaker 3: have in the moments that are in front of you.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 1: You you talked about going to therapy. What led you

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Speaker 1: in that direction. It's so funny.

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Speaker 2: I was in the store the other day and I

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Speaker 2: met a brother and he was so excited to see me,

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Speaker 2: and he said.

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Speaker 1: Miss miss Yamla I started therapy.

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Speaker 3: That said, who won great?

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Speaker 1: You know, he recognized the need.

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Speaker 2: And he It reminds me of I had to guess

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Speaker 2: Tony Porter.

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Speaker 3: Love Tony Porter. That's my mad mad box. Yeah, shout

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Speaker 3: out to Sony.

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Speaker 2: So my question to you, my inquiry that I'd like

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Speaker 2: to make of you is what was.

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Speaker 1: The impetus for you as a man going into therapy?

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Speaker 3: Ironically, it was fatherhood. The woman that I am now

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Speaker 3: married to and I called my wife, she wasn't always

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Speaker 3: my wife, and she was not my wife when we

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Speaker 3: found out we were going to have our first child,

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Speaker 3: she was my girlfriend. And much like you, I lost

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Speaker 3: my mom when I was young, so I realized that

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Speaker 3: there was some touch points that I was missing. I

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Speaker 3: realized there was some connective tissue that wasn't quite there.

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Speaker 3: And my biggest fear was.

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Speaker 2: That that wait a minute, I don't want to slip

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Speaker 2: past that. How did you realize that there were touch

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Speaker 2: points and connective tissue?

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Speaker 1: How did you realize it?

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Speaker 3: Just in some of my thought processes, I've always been

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Speaker 3: good at compartmentalizing. So I can compartmentalize the way that

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Speaker 3: I see the world, and I can tell where my

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Speaker 3: biases are, Like I think that because I grew up

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Speaker 3: black and poor, or uh, I think that because I

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Speaker 3: only have the experience of being a man. So sometimes

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Speaker 3: my experience is dealing with women. When I was dating,

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Speaker 3: dealing with work, culture, everything, I could see these gaps

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Speaker 3: in what I wanted to do or what I wanted

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Speaker 3: to say, or how I wanted to think, versus what

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Speaker 3: actually came out. Wow, And I could feel the disconnect,

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Speaker 3: but I couldn't tell you where it came from or

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Speaker 3: while I was there. And I operate under the assumption

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Speaker 3: that if you've been trying to do something for a

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Speaker 3: long time by yourself, and after a long time you

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Speaker 3: still not better at doing it or figuring it out

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Speaker 3: or solving it, that's indicative of you having the inability

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Speaker 3: to not be able to do it by yourself, and

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Speaker 3: perhaps you need to get some help.

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Speaker 2: One of the things Tony talked about is how challenging

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Speaker 2: it is for men to admit they need help, to

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Speaker 2: ask for help, and to receive help even when it

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Speaker 2: shows up.

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Speaker 1: He talked about that, So it was.

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Speaker 2: You becoming a father, recognizing some gaps in your own

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Speaker 2: cognitive of ability. And I'm repeating this because I think

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about women experience as men is they

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Speaker 2: don't care, or they're this or did that or the

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Speaker 2: other thing, And it may just be a level of unawareness.

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Speaker 1: Where did you go to school, did you get did

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Speaker 1: you do Howard?

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Speaker 3: No, No, I didn't do Howard. So I got my

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Speaker 3: undergrad and my master's degree from the University the District

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Speaker 3: of Columbia only public college in DC HBCU. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's why I got my education.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good for you, Good for you.

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Speaker 2: I was reading something and listening to something you wrote,

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Speaker 2: and when I saw you on Holda and uh, what's

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Speaker 2: her name?

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Speaker 3: Hold On Jenna?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hold In Jenna.

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Speaker 2: But you had this very wonderful thing that you wrote.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it was your podcast where you say eight

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Speaker 2: things you should never say to or do to your partner.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's talk about them, because that's

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Speaker 2: gonna touch everybody.

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Speaker 1: The men, the women, the flute, the nuts and the berries.

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Speaker 1: What do you say, I'm old.

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Speaker 2: On?

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Speaker 1: Are the eight things. Let's talk about them one at

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Speaker 1: a time because people people do it all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, they do. Let's see if I can

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Speaker 3: remember that was like a million articles ago. I can

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Speaker 3: tell you the spirit of the things that you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: do or say, and I know a lot of them

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Speaker 3: were around blaming and accusatory language. I think that's the

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Speaker 3: hardest thing when I see couples, you know, resentment builds

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Speaker 3: in a relationship so fast and The scariest thing about

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Speaker 3: resentment is it allows you to have car blanche to

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Speaker 3: say behavior things yeah, and behave in a way that

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Speaker 3: isn't conducive to you get in the results that you

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Speaker 3: so desperately need. So now you think you're helping yourself

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Speaker 3: and you think you're being communicative, but the way that

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Speaker 3: you're presenting with you have to say to the person

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Speaker 3: they can't even hear you for real, and that it

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Speaker 3: happens frequently. So the blaming and accusatory language was one thing.

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Speaker 3: Another thing was the pathologizing and vilifying everything your partner does.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, when you get to a point when

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Speaker 3: you're tired of somebody, or you're getting tired of somebody,

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Speaker 3: it's like that person that work that you don't like.

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Speaker 3: You don't like Carol. You know, you don't like Carol.

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Speaker 3: You don't like what she brings to the pop. Look,

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Speaker 3: you don't like her stupid haircut. You don't like Carol.

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Speaker 3: Carol can come in and be the perfect person, but

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Speaker 3: you have already decided that you don't like Carol. So

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Speaker 3: when Carol sneeze you, why you gotta sneeze that way? Carol?

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Speaker 3: You're so damn annoying. You've already vilified her, and you

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Speaker 3: pathologize everything that she does.

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Speaker 2: She can't do right, anologize explain that because women do

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Speaker 2: this the men all the time.

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Speaker 1: But I want to come from you to.

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Speaker 3: You just say that I can't. Yeah, So a good

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Speaker 3: example of pathologizing women do not care he me. This

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Speaker 3: is not an indictment, it's an invitation to.

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Speaker 1: Me to our conversation.

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Speaker 3: So a good example of pathologizing sometimes that I see

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Speaker 3: is what's the term that's really popular now, I'm weaponized

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Speaker 3: in competence. Okay, so the guy in the relationship forgot

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Speaker 3: to do something, and he, to be fair, he has

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Speaker 3: a history of forgetting to do things, but it'll automatically

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Speaker 3: get labeled as weaponized in competence and its symptomatic of

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Speaker 3: a larger psychological social issue that he has. When in

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Speaker 3: all actuality, there's a big chance that he forgot because

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Speaker 3: it isn't quite as important to him as it is

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Speaker 3: to you, or he doesn't have the touch points on indicator,

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Speaker 3: there's no calendar that he can go back and reference,

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Speaker 3: or maybe it's not on his calendar, maybe he has

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Speaker 3: other things on his mind. All of these things that's

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Speaker 3: an example of pathologizing something.

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Speaker 1: Let me give you an example, because I hear this

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Speaker 1: all the time. You used the wind.

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Speaker 2: He said, you asked him to, I don't know, fix

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Speaker 2: the garage door, fix the window, and you asked him once,

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Speaker 2: you asked him twice, you asked him three times. He

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Speaker 2: didn't do it, and he told you he forgot. And

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Speaker 2: then something comes along on the spot of the of

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Speaker 2: the on the spot that he forgot to do. And

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Speaker 2: the woman's response to that is, see, you never do

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Speaker 2: what you say you're gonna do. Every time I asked

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Speaker 2: you to do something, you forget. I asked you to

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Speaker 2: fix the closet door.

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Speaker 1: You forgot.

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Speaker 2: I asked you and something you know you only want

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Speaker 2: to do what you is that It is that how

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Speaker 2: they do it well.

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Speaker 3: The multiple things happen just now, because then you start

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Speaker 3: dog piling, and once you dog pile, the issues become

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Speaker 3: so stacked and layered that there's no real place to

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Speaker 3: know how to start. It's like those old telephone calls

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Speaker 3: back in the day. And see that now I'm old

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Speaker 3: in the conversation. But the ones that swirl up and

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Speaker 3: they get tangled up together, five or six of them

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Speaker 3: get singled up together. You don't know where the beginning

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Speaker 3: or the end is, and that's what dog piling does,

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Speaker 3: because now you're reaching back from stuff unresolved, issues from

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Speaker 3: early in the relationship that probably could have been much

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Speaker 3: easier to hash out and talk about had they been

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Speaker 3: resolved closer to the time of it happening. But now

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Speaker 3: it's five six years later. You're digging in that bag

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Speaker 3: and it's stacking and stacking and stacking, and now it's

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Speaker 3: more so about expression frustration and it's not about problem solving.

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Speaker 3: There's a space for expression frustration and it's valid, but

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Speaker 3: in terms of problem solving it isn't always helpful, especially

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Speaker 3: when you consider the tone that you're expressing those frustrations through.

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Speaker 2: Boy, I'm so glad to hear that come out of

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Speaker 2: your mouth, because I say the women all of the time.

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Speaker 2: A woman's mouth is connected to the valves and the

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Speaker 2: chords and the strings of a man's heart, because the

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Speaker 2: first thing he heard when the little ears were forming

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Speaker 2: on his body was his mother's heartbeat. That was the

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Speaker 2: first thing he heardman's voice and her tone, her tenor

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Speaker 2: you can destroy a man's heart that way. What you're

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Speaker 2: talking about too, is what I call historyonics. Women are

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Speaker 2: history majors.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It could be twenty twenty four. We'll go back and

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Speaker 2: dig up something you did in twenty nineteen. You don't

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Speaker 2: even remember you did it, you know, and the impact

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Speaker 2: of that and how that is emasculating. Here's another thing

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Speaker 2: I'd like you to talk about from a professional experience.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know what you call this, but it

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Speaker 2: would be among my eight things that you don't do

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Speaker 2: to your partner where nothing they ever do is good enough.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, ooh, that goes deep too.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, hold that answer, hold

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Speaker 1: that answer. Let's do that. After the break, we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the R Spot. My guest today is

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Speaker 2: care Gains. He's a licensed therapist, a mental health advocate,

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Speaker 2: and an accomplished speaker on the subject of relationships. So

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Speaker 2: I have so many things whenever I have a man

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Speaker 2: on the show, I just have so many things I

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Speaker 2: want to get a masculine opinion about, because I know

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Speaker 2: y'all get tired of hearing me talk about my stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know what I figured out what I found working

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Speaker 3: with women that oftentimes in a marriage a heterosexual relationship

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Speaker 3: is what we're talking about. Oftentimes, in those relationships, if

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Speaker 3: a woman demonstrates that behavior nine times out of ten,

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Speaker 3: I hate those type of terms, but let's just go

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Speaker 3: with it. Nine times out of ten, she's modeling what

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Speaker 3: was given to her as a child. Because I think

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Speaker 3: women's relationships with their mothers is something that we're just

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Speaker 3: now kind of publicly talking about, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of problematic tension in those relationships. Quite often. Immy wounds,

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Speaker 3: oh and they run, they run very deep. And just

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Speaker 3: like a number of those things, the shame of being

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Speaker 3: a female slob, the shame of being a woman, at

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Speaker 3: a young girl at rest Sunday, you better get up

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Speaker 3: and clean the house. All of these things, the permanent

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Speaker 3: dissatisfaction with your performance. No matter what you do, it's

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Speaker 3: not good enough for mom or it's not good enough

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Speaker 3: for dad. You begin to model those same behaviors in

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Speaker 3: your relationship. The shame of being a female slob. Well,

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Speaker 3: girls should never be dirty. They don't have the room

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Speaker 3: to be that. And you see those dynamics play out

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Speaker 3: in marriage all the time. When there may be a

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Speaker 3: compulsion to clean or anxiety around cleaning that urges everybody

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Speaker 3: in the house to be on that same page, and

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Speaker 3: it becomes a sense of dysfunction. And it's hard to

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Speaker 3: see it because cleaning is productive and people don't see

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Speaker 3: dysfunction as something that can also be productive or something

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Speaker 3: that can also help you. So yeah, that happens very often.

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Speaker 3: Usually it's a byproduct of a parental relationship that was

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Speaker 3: very much so molded under those same guys.

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Speaker 2: I said, some of us grew up in such dysfunctional

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Speaker 2: for mental relationships. I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 2: this because a lot of men, men finally trust me

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Speaker 2: after all of these years.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations. That's hard.

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Speaker 2: I know it is as a public person. But they'll

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Speaker 2: tell me anything, some things I really don't even want.

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Speaker 3: To know, but are you in there?

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Speaker 2: But they trust me because I honor them and their dignity.

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Speaker 2: Women trust me too, but they have I want to

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Speaker 2: talk to you about this because I hear this today

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Speaker 2: from so many men, and maybe if you can address

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Speaker 2: it and support the women who are listening. And that

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Speaker 2: is the aggressive experienced, that disrespectful manner in which women

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Speaker 2: have become accustomed to addressing men today.

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Speaker 3: Can you give me an example, jumping up in their

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Speaker 3: face pointing their finger at.

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Speaker 2: Him, calling them names, you know, the big word, you

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Speaker 2: know in please, who you talking to?

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Speaker 1: Who you think?

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Speaker 2: It's just very, very aggressive, And sometime in that aggression

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Speaker 2: is also put down. And I know the way women

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Speaker 2: will dismiss it is they'll say, but what about the

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Speaker 2: way he talks to me, he calls me out my neck? Well,

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Speaker 2: we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: the seemingly acceptable behavior of women. I've seen it, jumping

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Speaker 2: up in a man's face and with the finger and

404
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Speaker 2: rolling of the head.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I so I've seen it before. I will say this,

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Speaker 3: that's not a part of my personal data and experience.

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Speaker 3: As soon as you start to exhibit uncontrollable anger, misplaced anger,

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Speaker 3: uncontrollable rage. Whether you're physically smaller than me or not,

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter how much you can can or can't hurt me.

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Speaker 3: It matters to me what your intent is. So as

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Speaker 3: soon as you start to display those behaviors, my boundary

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Speaker 3: game is fantastic. I have nothing for that. I didn't

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Speaker 3: grow up in a house with that. I never was

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Speaker 3: interested in women who display those behaviors. My wife ain't

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Speaker 3: nothing like that, My female friends ain't nothing like that.

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Speaker 3: That's never anything that I've ever let anybody be comfortable

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Speaker 3: displaying in front of me twice, so I don't have

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Speaker 3: any experiential history with that at all. I do see that,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know where that comes from. That's probably

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Speaker 3: a better question for a sociologist, but I will say this.

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Speaker 3: I think that it's this unwritten rule because I used

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Speaker 3: to work in education and students would do a similar

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Speaker 3: thing where physically, boy, I will mop this floor with you,

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Speaker 3: what is you talking about. I will put your head

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Speaker 3: through that concrete wall. I'm gonna call my father. I'll

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Speaker 3: put his head through that concrete wall to stop playing

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Speaker 3: with me. It's the students know that you have a duty.

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Speaker 3: It is against your social role, it is against your

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Speaker 3: social script to hit them back, so them a different

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Speaker 3: it emboldens them in a different way. I think there

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Speaker 3: may be some of that where we know boys don't

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Speaker 3: get taught many things consistently, but one thing boys get

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Speaker 3: taught consistently is you're not supposed to put your hands

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Speaker 3: on women. And I think that that's a bit of

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Speaker 3: a safeguard.

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Speaker 1: I think they're taught that. I don't think they taught that.

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Speaker 3: I think they're taught that. How many of them absorb

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Speaker 3: and demonstrate that learning is a completely different thing. But

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Speaker 3: I think they're taught that. And I'll say we I

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Speaker 3: hate when men talk about other men and say they

441
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: don't exclude yourself from the shit like I'm sorry you

442
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: say it.

443
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: I love it. You're bilingual. You're bilingual. That was a

444
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: sentence and answer.

445
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's when it comes to men in violence

446
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: and things like that. On one hand, you have to

447
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: flash light on the fact that black women have the

448
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: highest rate of intimate partner violence, like it's an epidemic,

449
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: it's really really bad. And also in the same breath,

450
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 3: it could be very problematic to say that black men

451
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: are inherently violent, because not all black men commit those acts,

452
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: So it's hard to shine light on one in a

453
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 3: public eye without taking away from the other. But to

454
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 3: wrap it all up, I think it's a little bit

455
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 3: of that you're not supposed to hit me, You're not

456
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 3: supposed to do this, And I think it emboldus folks

457
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 3: to lean in a little bit more. We were at

458
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: a fair last year and this big guy cut in

459
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: front of this woman and I saw it happen. He

460
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: didn't see her. He didn't see her, and I mean,

461
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 3: she got livid and she it continued to escalate and

462
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 3: continue to escalat and the next thing I know, she's

463
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: in his face, point in her finger, and I told

464
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 3: my wife, I'm like, yo, she needs to chill because

465
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: you could see him trying to move on, and she

466
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: follows him and she continues to antagonize him, and that

467
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: dude was big. If he would have swung, it would

468
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: have been an issue. And you know, I'm like, hey, y'all,

469
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: everybody relaxed. Everybody relaxed. Trying to de escalate. That didn't work.

470
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 3: She was very angry. And I think sometimes because of

471
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: the gender scripts that we have in society, like men

472
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: can't really see themselves in a way that's different from

473
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 3: what society says they are, like emotionally complex, men have

474
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: a hard time grasping their own emotional complexity. And because

475
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: in society, women don't always have a lot of power,

476
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: and women aren't always framed as angry or violent, I don't.

477
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 3: I think a lot of women have a hard time

478
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: seeing sometimes when they have issues around anger and controlling

479
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 3: their anger on what that looks like. So I think

480
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: it could be a mix of all that.

481
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: Nice girls don't get angry, you know.

482
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I'm really glad about

483
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: is all of these false notions and misnomas and the

484
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: ridiculosity and crazy men, that it's being busted up.

485
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: I mean, we see it out of the world. I

486
00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: love it.

487
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: I love it that we're being forced to make inquiry.

488
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: Let's talk about marriages relationships today. Let's bring it right

489
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: here home to the twenty first century. Because I'm looking

490
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: out in the world, I see and you know, I

491
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: could be very wrong about this.

492
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: I see this presidential.

493
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 2: Election as a function of the deterioration between.

494
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: Men and women.

495
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: Oh please any more.

496
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: Well, I just see how the world is responding to

497
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: a woman candidate, particularly a woman of color who's a candidate.

498
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: I have to say this.

499
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: You know, her opponent, the Republican candidate. I've been very

500
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: aware of the things that he has said about her

501
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 2: and the silence I've heard from black men about it.

502
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: It's been very disturbing to me. And I'm wondering if

503
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: it's because she's got a white husband. I'm wondering if

504
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: I just I want to get to the day where

505
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: because I love black men and I mean, I've got

506
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: some powerful black men in my life and you better

507
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: not mess with me. I make two phone calls and

508
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: you done. Okay, Yeah, I don't understand. I wanted to

509
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: know why has there not been a public outcry about

510
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: the way these people have been speaking about her, denigrating her.

511
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: I wanted my brothers to stand up and say no, no, no, no,

512
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: not yet. I don't care. They can say everything else

513
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: on tw it. I don't care if you're voting.

514
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 3: For her or not.

515
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: Why has that been allowed to go on? And I

516
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: think it's the same way that in today's society, I

517
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 2: don't hear black men's voice speaking out about the like

518
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: you said, black women are the number one victims, or

519
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: the experience in home violence, relational violence with any other

520
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: I don't hear enough black men speaking about that.

521
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't either. And in my mind,

522
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: I always wonder where will those conversations live and what

523
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: do they look like? Because I do see black men

524
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: speaking about it, but they don't have a large share

525
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 3: of voice. And I'll even go as far as to

526
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 3: say it's hard to find intelligent male perspective online that

527
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: isn't of overtly sexist, that isn't overtly propagandists, or isn't

528
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: talking about finances or securing external resources.

529
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: How about brothers, keep your hands off your wife.

530
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: You out of order, and I think that does well.

531
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: I'll say this in my mind. It happens in interpersonal conversations. Okay, yeah,

532
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 3: I think so to what magnitude, clearly not enough. To

533
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: what magnitude, I don't know. But I also know that

534
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: men get very defeated when it comes to changing the

535
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: attitudes of other men. I've seen this a lot. Whereas,

536
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: like I've told him two three times, he's going to

537
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 3: do him, and at some point, men who are doing

538
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: what they're supposed to do they do a thing that

539
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: I'm not sure is hopeful. And I've been guilty of

540
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: this myself. We disassociate from those men, okay, and those

541
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: men are no longer connected to a community of men

542
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: that have a difference of opinion, that have a difference

543
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: in philosophy, and who can correct you. When those men

544
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: know that they're doing the wrong thing, they don't come

545
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: back and tell us. I always say, in my circle,

546
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: I don't have any dead be dads in my circle.

547
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: I thought that. I thought that until I continue to

548
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: do some investigation, and time did what time does, and

549
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 3: it started revealing things. But those men don't come I'm

550
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: back and say, yeah, man, I hit my wife the

551
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: other night, and then continue on with the conversation. You'll

552
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: think he gonna come and tell me that and then

553
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: have to hear my mouth continuously and feel my judgment continuously,

554
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 3: and feel my constant correction. And then he has to

555
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 3: look at the way my life goes and constantly compare

556
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: myself to him. I don't he won't say that, he'll

557
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: be quiet, He'll be silent around us. So I think

558
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: that's more of a complex phenomenon than I need brothers

559
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: to speak out loud, because man, it's you speak. If

560
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: I go on Twitter and I say something positive, if

561
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: I refresh the screen, you can't even see what I

562
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: said anymore. The information moves so quickly. So it's my

563
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: personal philosophy is, you know, I'm not gonna just call

564
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: you out, but I'm gonna also call you in. And

565
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: it starts with the inner circles. How to do it

566
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: from a larger perspective, I'm working on that. I don't

567
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: think that's going to be a one shot killed. But

568
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: I think it starts in in our immediate circles, in

569
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: our immediate communities, And I'm afraid that's something that we

570
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 3: can't track or really see in a place where we

571
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 3: can get like a like a catch off you point out.

572
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: I hear that, and I believe that, and I'm on

573
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: that step with you. But when I look and I

574
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: see the thousands and thousands of comments from black men

575
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: about Diddy they got something to say about that, I

576
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: want to know, why can't we have that same voice,

577
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, brothers, if you're in breakdown with your wife

578
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: and you feel come here, come there. I know that's

579
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: the work that Tony Porter does. I just you know,

580
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: I want to see a stronger presence of black men

581
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: in the world standing up for black women because and

582
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: now let me just say this, they also did it

583
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: to Hillary.

584
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: They tow her.

585
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: Down when she ran, but that won't that was white

586
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: men stand up for her. You know, I don't think

587
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: I want to see brothers standing up, you know, for

588
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: a sister, because the things that they're saying are just disgraceful.

589
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 3: But anyway, yeah, and and just to just to wrap

590
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: this thing up, I do too that's something I want

591
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: to see, and that's one of the things that influenced

592
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: me and inspire me to do the content that I

593
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: do because with men, reaching men is hard. We were

594
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 3: talking about that before we hopped on the pod.

595
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to say that, cancel, cancel. Reaching

596
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: men is a challenge, it's not all Okay.

597
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: I accept that. Yes, okay, let's let's use that frame.

598
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: I love that. Actually reaching men is a challenge. And

599
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: one thing we didn't we haven't been doing a great

600
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: job of, is meeting men at eye level, like meeting

601
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: men exactly where they are, and also telling men is

602
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: one thing, but sometimes men need to see it. And

603
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 3: then my content, I don't just tell you this is

604
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: what I do, this is how you should do it,

605
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: how to model it, This is what my version of

606
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: that thing looks like. Your version might be very different,

607
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: but take my version. Keep what's nutritious, discard what isn't,

608
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: and try and try and try. This masculine ideology isn't

609
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: real big on experimentation, It isn't real big on flexibility.

610
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: It ain't oh man, it's so heavily self reliant to

611
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: a fault. So I try to demonstrate that in my

612
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: everyday life, so I can definitely call me in on that.

613
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so glad to have you here. Today is

614
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: my guest care.

615
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: We're going to have more and more to talk about

616
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: when we come back. Welcome back to the R spot.

617
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm my guest Today is care games and

618
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: we're just talking about all sorts of goodness as it

619
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: relates to men and women and relationships. And I want

620
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: to ask here some stuff about that so I can

621
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: get another opinion.

622
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Help me with this. And this is for the ladies

623
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: listening to.

624
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: If I do a workshop on the weekend, women will

625
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: show up, They get the babysitter, they'll do what they

626
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: have to do, blah blah blah. If I'm doing something online,

627
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: women will show up. Most men who show up come

628
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 2: because the woman brought him. Yeah, here's helped me understand

629
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: the thinking here. If a man has to pay the mortgage,

630
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 2: the childcare, the car note, and I'm doing a weekend workshop,

631
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: does he have the freedom to spend that money to

632
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 2: take that time to come.

633
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: And do it.

634
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: Can't one? Why wouldn't he?

635
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: Because will she support him in it? Or will she

636
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: say you ain't you got to do this. You can't,

637
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: you know, I'm just asking. I'm not making any accusation.

638
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 3: I hear you. I hear you. I don't. I have

639
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: a tough time to generalize on women like that. My

640
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 3: experience with women has been largely either either it has

641
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: been positive or it's been human right, It's been one

642
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 3: of those two things. And I think that relationships are very, very,

643
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: very complicated. And I think that when it comes to

644
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: men seeking help, uh, it's it's so far outside of

645
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: the schema of of men what we always thought about men.

646
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,479
Speaker 3: Put it like this, I honestly believe in my heart

647
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: that in terms of the way that we look at

648
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: gender identity and gender scripts, I think that women are

649
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: becoming more liberal with the way that they see those things,

650
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: and not politically. I'm just talking about personal ideology, becoming

651
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 3: more liberal in terms of the way they see womanhood

652
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 3: and femininity. And men are either as conservative as we've

653
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 3: always been, or we're becoming more conservative. And that in

654
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 3: that concern, rovatism does a thing where it sticks to

655
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: an old philosophy that don't really apply anymore. Like you,

656
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: the protector provider that was that was that was the

657
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: ship in the sixties and in the seventies. Yeah, you

658
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. That was, but now you have

659
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 3: to be more. And I think the conservative piece of

660
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: masking the ideology that's really self reliant and really big

661
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: on masking vulnerability. I understand why it exists. It had

662
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: to fulf very for a very long time. But the

663
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: human brain doesn't always do a good job of knowing

664
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 3: when it's time for change. And societally, man, we're a

665
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 3: big ship and the Titanic king Bucker you like before

666
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: that scort, you know, it takes a long time for

667
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 3: that thing to turn around and change course. So I

668
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 3: think we're dealing with a lot of different things at

669
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: one time. And with men, I think the buying is

670
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: going to be them seeing themselves in the work. I

671
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: think when most men think of a workshop, they think

672
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: of something that's for women, where you sit around and

673
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: you get affirmed and y'all might be clapping a snap

674
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: in the yes, live your best life, walk in your truth,

675
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: and that's fantastic. But that's how my wife talks. That's

676
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: not how I talk.

677
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: They need to come to one of mind. I don't

678
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: talk like that either.

679
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: I love that, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm

680
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: glad that women vibe with that. Women deserve those spaces

681
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: and languages and language that feels like them, you know.

682
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: But if we're going to reach men and have it

683
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: be less arduous to do so, I think we have

684
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 3: to change the service delivery approach.

685
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: I think that they don't know well in terms of

686
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 2: my other question, the weekend workshop, I don't think they don't.

687
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: Either they don't know how, or they haven't given themselves

688
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: permission to take that time for themselves.

689
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: Because we're so glad you said that they don't.

690
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: Give themselves permission to take that time.

691
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: That's one thing, you know, we did when Courtney be

692
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: Advanced Dvance released his book The Invisible Ache. We did

693
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: like workshop online and I had probably five hundred and

694
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: something men sign up and forty something show up.

695
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: Five hundred signed up and forty showed up. Yeah was

696
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: it free?

697
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: Yes?

698
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah it was anutrition would the free stuff be crazy?

699
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: Rayest competitor, My greatest competitor is free. I just was

700
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: slapping down she everywhere giving herself away. She's a howl.

701
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, free as a howl. I mean, she

702
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: just gives herself to everybody. But yeah, four five hundred

703
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: signed up and only forty showed up. And you know,

704
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: I really had to take that into prayer and see

705
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: and one of the things that I said, I want

706
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: to talk to you about these two things before you

707
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: get out of here. Number one, my father said it,

708
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: and I've seen it and I raised my son.

709
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: I've seen it in my husband's I've seen it in

710
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: my friends.

711
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: A man who is not accountable to anyone is a

712
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: danger to himself and everybody else.

713
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, absolutely absolutely, And in there anyone, yourself needs

714
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 3: to be included. You need to be accountable to self. Yeah. Absolutely.

715
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: How do men learn that if they haven't seen it?

716
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: Which goes back to my original question, how does a

717
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 2: fatherless son become a good father? How do men learn

718
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 2: accountability when they haven't seen it or experienced it? How

719
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: do they learn it?

720
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: Oh?

721
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: You bought that thing all the way back around there?

722
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: I'm good like that, Yeah you are.

723
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: I think how do men bring themselves to a point

724
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: of self on ability when it has not been modeled

725
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: for them.

726
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: And when nobody's holding them accountable.

727
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 3: To do it, and when no one's holding you accountable

728
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 3: to do it? I think the only way something has

729
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 3: to institute change. Something has to bring about a desire

730
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: for change. Either it's something that's going to be self motivated,

731
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 3: like I'm tired of being this way. I'm tired. I

732
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 3: don't like the way I feel when I'm drunk anymore.

733
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm running from my problems. I don't

734
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 3: want to do this anymore. I gotta change or do

735
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 3: something different. Either it's going to be that or when

736
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,959
Speaker 3: he loses everything and he's rock bottom, does it mean

737
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 3: that he'll do the things that are necessary, because you

738
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: still have to take the steps. But I think the

739
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 3: light switch that turns on that says I have to

740
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: do something, have to be self accountable is when you

741
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: have a very strong and deep desire for changing your

742
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 3: own life, and you're at the point, you're at the

743
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 3: point at the stages of cha's not pre contemplation, not contemplation,

744
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 3: You're at the point where you're ready to make a

745
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 3: step forward. And I think what supercharge is that is

746
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 3: if you're one of those men that could say, hey,

747
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 3: I know I'm self reliant, I'm independent, I can provide

748
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 3: for myself and do all of those things, but I

749
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: really need some help right now. Seeking behaviors yeah, the

750
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: help seeking behaviors. And with men, what I find what

751
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: we do oftentimes is we jump to the extreme of

752
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 3: something in order to fix it. Like, oh, my cars

753
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: making noise. Time to change the engine. Yo, wait a minute,

754
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 3: might be the fuel pump. Bro, you know you might

755
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: have a valve in that engine. That's a little bit off.

756
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: Let's check the easy to fix things. I've had men

757
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 3: come in my office, like y'all need to take this

758
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: cold plunge in this twenty degree tub. Like, yo, you

759
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 3: know you could just take a shower and if it's hot,

760
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: like turn it on cold for the first two minutes.

761
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: Baby steps matter. It's so hard to get through the

762
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: men sometimes, I'll say, so challenging to use your framing

763
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 3: to get through the mess. Sometimes the baby steps matter,

764
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 3: the little touch points matter, and it's okay, bro, it's okay.

765
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: It's okay. If you need somebody to hold your hand

766
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 3: through this, it's all right.

767
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: But do they know they can trust?

768
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: What I find with men is if you burn them

769
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: one time, if you violate them one time. One of

770
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: the ways that women do that is he has a

771
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 2: vulnerable moment. He tells you something sacred or secret and

772
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: you use it to beat him up later.

773
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: If you do that, he's done.

774
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 2: So I don't know, or you tell me, how does

775
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: a woman let a man know you're safe with me?

776
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: What does she need to.

777
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: Communicate or how does she need to be to communicate

778
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: your safe with me?

779
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: Let me say this first. If a man has not

780
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 3: done the work to let his brain notify the rest

781
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: of his body that he is safe, there's nothing that

782
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: she can do.

783
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: Okay, got it.

784
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 3: That's the first. First thing. First, I hear that I

785
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 3: grew up. I grew up in the projects, and when

786
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: we move, I'll never forget when we moved our first townhouse.

787
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: I mean it was projects adjacent, but it wasn't in

788
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 3: the projects. Me and my wife moved our first townhouse.

789
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: I was outside with my cousin and every car that

790
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: rolled by was looking in the car because you know,

791
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: you ride through the hood, you think them boys looking

792
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 3: in the car because they're trying to hurt you. No,

793
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 3: they want to make sure you ain't trying to hurt them, right,

794
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: you know that's PTSD at it's finest. But I'm looking

795
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: at the cars, I'm looking at everybody. And my cousin said, hey, bro,

796
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 3: you know you safe. You ain't gotta do that no more,

797
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 3: right like you ain't in the hood no more. My

798
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 3: brain did not know that I was safe. I own

799
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 3: my own business. We do very well, but sometimes, you know,

800
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 3: when you're an entrepreneur, sometimes the money don't always look right.

801
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: That's right.

802
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: What I don't have money in my account. I don't

803
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 3: feel safe, and I have to keep reminding my brain

804
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 3: that I'm safe. I'm safe. There's nothing my wife can do,

805
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 3: There's nothing anybody's mama can do. If I do not

806
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 3: feel safe in my own mind and body, then externally,

807
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 3: there's nothing that can happen to help kickstart that. So

808
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 3: I think first things first is he has to be

809
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: cognizant of where he is and he has to be

810
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 3: able to know that he's safe. And I think the

811
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 3: second thing is just my data and experience. Every woman

812
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 3: thought she was safe just by virtue of being her.

813
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: I never met a woman who didn't think that she

814
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 3: was safe. My wife wasn't always the safest person for

815
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: me to be vulnerable with, you know, before we got married.

816
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: But I think it's a mix. It's not whether it's climate,

817
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 3: it's not the individual things that happen always in these

818
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: little touch points. It's what the attitudes, behaviors, conversations, and

819
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: mutual love and respect looked like over a long period

820
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: of time. What is you all shared experience with each other.

821
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 3: Don't tell me you're safe, Demonstrate that you're safe if

822
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: I tell you something that's uncomfortable for you to hear,

823
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 3: if it's uncomfortable saying hey, I'm feeling a kind of

824
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: way right now, Babe. You told me that, and it's

825
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 3: making me feel insecure or it's making me feel defensive.

826
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: I want to be here for you right now, but

827
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: what you say is making me feel the way I

828
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: need a minute like. You have to externalize these internal

829
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 3: thoughts that are going through your mind so that you

830
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 3: all both know where you are now. That takes a

831
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 3: great deal of emotional intelligence, and in twenty twenty four,

832
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: that's not something that's in abundance. It's not a commodity

833
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: that there's a great deal of. But you have to

834
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 3: you have to show it in your actions off It's

835
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: I feel so sorry for folks. It's too much going on,

836
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 3: it's too many distractions. People are categorizing value in these

837
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: very obsessive, very peculiar.

838
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: Ways, dysfunctional. It's all dysfunctional.

839
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 3: It is, but we don't see it that way. I say,

840
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: you know, people always look back at the nineties and

841
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 3: early two thousands and say that it's really cringe. I

842
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: think we want to look back at this time with

843
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: all the fifty to fifty conversation and the relationship godly gook,

844
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 3: and it's going to be so uncomfortable to watch how

845
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: collectively ridiculous we were. That's right back in twenty twenty four.

846
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, back to the back to what I'm saying

847
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: about it. I think it's just something you have to model.

848
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 3: You have to model safety. You can't just talk it now.

849
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's for the men. Now for the women,

850
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: I say the women all the time, let me see

851
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: how this lands for you and what you would say

852
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 2: about it.

853
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: I say to women, take the pants off.

854
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 2: He don't want to come home and find another dude.

855
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: Take the pants off.

856
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: And I literally have an exercise where I tell women

857
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: to wear a skirt for twenty one days so that

858
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: they can get a different, vivate rational pull from the universe.

859
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: When you hear me say that, ladies, take the pants off,

860
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 2: what does that stimulate for you?

861
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: As a man.

862
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: It makes me think of this rhetoric we have about

863
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 3: masculine and feminine energy. I don't subscribe to it, but

864
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 3: I understand the conversations that people are having and my

865
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 3: clients talk about it, so I have to lean into it.

866
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 3: Taking the pants off I often hear when women are

867
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 3: being independent or where women are gaining autonomy economically, academically,

868
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: vocasionally all these different fields that are very new and

869
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: excited for women that they did label is masculine, which

870
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 3: bothers me. What's masculine about achievement?

871
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: Like, it's absolutely nothing.

872
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: I don't mean it that way, but I'm glad that

873
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 2: you that to hear that that's what you're hearing.

874
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe that's me being a girl dad and

875
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: me being invested in women from that angle, but you know,

876
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: take the pants off to me is also about control

877
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: and allowing yourself to take the hands off the steering

878
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: wheel of control and allow your relationship to be or

879
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 3: not assuming the super domineering role in your relationship that

880
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: makes you and I know this is tough because you know,

881
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: the good girl thing with women are supposed to be warm,

882
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: but makes you kind of impenetrable. Where I can't get

883
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: to you. I can't get to you for the reasons

884
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: that I got it. Yeah, yeah, I think it's a.

885
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: Control and domination and insisting that it looks the way

886
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: you think it should look.

887
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: Give you know.

888
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: And I say this to women all the time, particularly

889
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: single women. I say, for men with a drop out

890
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: of the sky into your life today, is there room?

891
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: Do you have closet space for it?

892
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 3: Oh? I like that. I like that.

893
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, or you're just gonna give

894
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 1: him a little box by the stove.

895
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: When I say take the pants off, I mean make

896
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: room for him who he is, as he is, and

897
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: not that it's always got to be your way and

898
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: that you're in control and you're dominating the space.

899
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: Give him space. You know. My partner best away about

900
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 1: three years ago, he could not cook.

901
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: When he would say to me, I want to I'm

902
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: gonna cook dinner tonight. Inside, I would say, Lord Jesus,

903
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: help me, let me get it. Go get a big bag.

904
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 2: But let me tell you something. I would sit at

905
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: that table and eat that food and yummy, yummy, yummy

906
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 2: and yummy, as opposed to say, how.

907
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 4: Can you even put more flour on the chicken? And no,

908
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: I just just be in the space in my heart

909
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 4: because for me, so many women have made the head

910
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 4: at home the heart is in deep freeze. That's what

911
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 4: I mean when I say not the masculine feminine, because

912
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: our nature is warm and soft and our dominant organ

913
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 4: should be a heart. But when we have the pants

914
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 4: on into our head, that's what I mean.

915
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 3: I love the framing of that. Yeah, and I think

916
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 3: it also you have to you can't let the idea

917
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 3: of like this hyper idealized version of romance and partnership.

918
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 3: You can't allow that to hold a gun to your

919
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: head where you know this ain't a fit, but you

920
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 3: know this is somebody, This is a warm body. I'm

921
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: not gonna be alone. I'm not gonna be myself. I'm

922
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 3: not gonna be by myself. This is my opportunity to

923
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 3: have a person when everything is showing you. If you

924
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: cannot take the pants off at all because who you

925
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: are and who they are is just bumping, I think

926
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 3: that's an indicator that something's wrong. I'm not saying you

927
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 3: need to leave that relationship or exit, but I think

928
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 3: that's indicative or I think that's an indicator that perhaps

929
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 3: you need to reassess the direction and this relationship is

930
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: going in. If you can't naturally find a place and

931
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: not saying that it's that person's fault, perhaps you all

932
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: they bring a part of their personality, brings out a

933
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: part of your personality that won't allow you to take

934
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 3: the pants off. Or maybe something from your past, maybe

935
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 3: like we were talking about earlier, your relationship with your parents,

936
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 3: maybe it triggers something there, or to remind you of

937
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 3: something deeply hurtful where you just don't have great control

938
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 3: over that in that moment with that person, I think

939
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 3: it may be a great indicator that you need to

940
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 3: dig deeper with self. Maybe you need to pivot, maybe

941
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 3: you need to pause. Maybe this just ain't your person.

942
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: I think everybody, every relationship, if it takes if it

943
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 2: takes foot, you know, takes hole beyond, you know, bump

944
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: knocking boots, that person is still there to teach you.

945
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: I believe that they'll teach you something. Show yourself agreed.

946
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: What they trigger up in you is what you need

947
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 2: to heal. And sometimes you know that gets triggered in

948
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: a one night stand. I know you've got to run.

949
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: So I want to get these three things out to you,

950
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 2: what is the number one measure of success in a relationship?

951
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: What would you say?

952
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 3: Oooh, that's a good question. I got you mutual respect one. Yeah,

953
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: it ain't gonna work without it.

954
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: Just I respect you for who you are as you are,

955
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: respect me for who I am, and then let's come

956
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: together and see where we need to integrate.

957
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: Okay, that's right, that's right.

958
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: Number one thing you want men to know about intimate

959
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: loving relationships.

960
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 3: That they are They're deeply complex, no matter how badly

961
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: your brain wants to oversimplify them. They are deeply nuanced.

962
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 3: I can't remember the name of the couple, but it

963
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 3: was a story about a couple who was married for

964
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: like fifty years or something, this other couple that was

965
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: married for twenty and the couple that was married for

966
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 3: twenty as the couple that was married for fifty years

967
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 3: asked the couple who's married for twenty, well, how long

968
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: you all been married? And they told them, and the

969
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 3: couple that was married for fifty years said, oh, y'all

970
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 3: still getting to know each other.

971
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 5: Ya, twenty years married, they still getting to know each other.

972
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 5: It is deeply nuanced. It goes deep. It is an

973
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 5: abyss of feelings that you need to grasp that concept

974
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 5: before you go deep diving.

975
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: What is the number one thing you want women to

976
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: know about intimate loving relationships?

977
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 3: Even though women are still fighting to wield power in society,

978
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 3: women oftentimes have a great deal of power in their

979
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: relationships that I don't know if they always see both

980
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 3: good and bad. Well, I won't say good and bad.

981
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 3: I don't like that framing, but.

982
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: Both positive and not so volative?

983
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, both constructive and deconstructive, which I know is something

984
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: you've talked about many, many, many times.

985
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh, care gains. You are an

986
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 2: absolute joy and a delight.

987
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: I tell you.

988
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: One of the things that I saw you in one

989
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: of your videos, your daughter was saying something. You say, well,

990
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: do you want me to do so? Or do you

991
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: need some time alone? And she said I need time alone?

992
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 2: You said, okay, I'll be right here. I'll check on

993
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 2: you in five minutes.

994
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: That's right. And I do the same thing with my wife.

995
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 3: What's up, baby? You need some space or you need

996
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: a hug? What's good? What you need? Oh? Yeah, one thousand?

997
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 3: Absolutely check on you?

998
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: And how do we find you? Kiir does?

999
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: How do we find you? How does the ar Spot

1000
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 2: family find you? Because I want them to. I want

1001
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 2: my family to become a part of your family.

1002
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 3: I love that. What's up our Spot Family's good with you,

1003
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 3: y'all been listening to this whole episode. Thank you for

1004
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: sticking with us. You can find me on Instagram. My

1005
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 3: name is kier Gaines k I E R G A

1006
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 3: I N E S. I am also on TikTok. I

1007
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 3: am also on YouTube. My wife and I have a

1008
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: podcast called to Sit Down Talk where we talk honestly

1009
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 3: about loving relationships and imagine Jordan's under the waterfall, because

1010
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 3: that ain't gonna help you, That ain't gonna help you

1011
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 3: get better at being a partner. You can find me

1012
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 3: any of those places. I will be happy to have

1013
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 3: you as part of my community.

1014
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so very much.

1015
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: Our Spy Family Care Games. He is a licensed therapist.

1016
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: I know we were all over the place, but there

1017
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 2: were so many things that I wanted to get from

1018
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 2: him as because back, yes, absolutely absolutely, and you know what,

1019
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: this is what we're gonna do.

1020
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring you back with your wife.

1021
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: Ooh, that's gonna be good. That's gonna be good. I

1022
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 3: like that.

1023
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: Back with your wife, and then I get to ask

1024
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: her questions about you, and you questions about her.

1025
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: She's brilliant, Your love her.

1026
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my sister at the bar. She's a lawyer,

1027
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: right she is.

1028
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, intellectual property and trademark lawyer.

1029
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: Okay, oh lord, that's above my grade. I just do

1030
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: criminal defense.

1031
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: I definitely married up for sure.

1032
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: Okay, my love, Thank you so very much. I want

1033
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: to respect your time to get out and we'll be

1034
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:24,959
Speaker 1: in touch, okay.

1035
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: Before I leave you today. This is our last episode

1036
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: of season two on The R Spot, and I'm sure

1037
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: hoping there will be a season three. I want to

1038
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 2: thank you for listening. But more than listening, I want

1039
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: to encourage you to go back and listen to whatever

1040
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: episode was your favorite and see what you can find

1041
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: to put into action in your life. Because at the

1042
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: R Spot, our intention has been to give us more

1043
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: are loving, more fulfilling, more satisfying relationships in every area

1044
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 2: of our life. So to my our Spot family, I

1045
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: want to thank you for tuning in. I want to

1046
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: thank you for your support, and take good care of

1047
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: yourself until next time, Stay in.

1048
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: Peace and not in pieces.

1049
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: Bye. Ther Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in

1050
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit

1051
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1052
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: your favorite show.