WEBVTT - Jupiter the Destroyer, Part 1 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.240 My welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, the production 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:14.040 of My Heart Radio. Hey are you welcome to Stuff 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.079 to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.079 I'm Joe McCormick, and today we bring you ill omens 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.840 from the planet Jupiter. Today is gonna be the first 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.720 of a two part series where we're going to be 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.320 looking at the planet Jupiter and how Jupiter interacts with 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:33.440 some some specific mythology about the wars before the world 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.680 we know, and how that also relates to some very 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.920 interesting scientific theories concerning the fate of the planets in 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.600 our solar system and in star systems beyond throughout the galaxy. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.160 But I start I wanted to start off today by 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.840 talking about the belief that the motion of the planets 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.120 can have dire effects on the fate of creatures here 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.040 on Earth. Of course, this is a long time tenant 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.800 of many of the world's different traditions of astrology. But 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.000 like if you read astrology today, Rob, I don't know 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:06.800 if you've had this experience, there's little sense in in 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:12.040 astrology today that like the planets are literally doing physical 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.160 things to you, like they're reaching down with I don't know, 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.800 with like gravity or winds or something to have physical 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.520 effects on your life. Rather, the mechanism that is believed 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.039 to to link the movement of the planets or the 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.640 constellations or whatever uh to your fate is is a 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.080 more obscure one. It's a kind of like invisible almost 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.120 kind of young gian um anti causal relationship. Would you 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.720 would you agree? Yeah, yeah, I would think so. And 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:40.320 I mean not that I spent a lot of time 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:45.400 in the astrology sections, right, but sometimes people have believed 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.080 that the movement of the planets or the constellations have 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.440 more direct physical effects on the Earth that can absolutely 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.040 influence the fate of people or the fate of nations. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.520 So I wanted to talk about one example that we 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.360 discussed way back when we did an episode on miasthma theory. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.280 And I remember the miasma theory was a it was 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.040 a theory of disease that predated modern germ theory. It 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.400 was the idea that disease was often was spread by 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:18.120 like bad vapors or foul smelling odors, winds that went 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.400 from you know, that that might come up from the 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.239 earth or down from heaven and would bring the plague 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.680 or would bring malaria or something like that. And so 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.920 the example I wanted to look at was how in 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.120 the year thirty this was during the Second Plague pandemic, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.240 when the Bubonic plague was sweeping through Europe. It was 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.520 devastating towns and cities. Of course, people had no understanding 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.400 of what was actually causing the disease. So King Philip 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.880 the sixth of France called in scholars from the medical 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.920 faculty of the University of Paris to see if they 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.720 could figure out what was going on. And the scholars 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.360 discussed things, they researched the matter, and they eventually came 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.640 back with an answer. And there answer was this. On 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.919 marchty five, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn had all lined up 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.760 in conjunction and it happened within the House of Aquarius. 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.600 And this was bad because to these scholars, uh, there 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.600 was a causative story to tell here. The conjunction of 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.360 Jupiter and Saturn to them was said to bring death 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.280 and calamity, and the conjunction of Jupiter and Mars was 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.560 said to bring pestilence on the breeze. And then this 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.359 was both of those things happening at the same time. 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.440 So here I'm gonna quote from a historian named ole 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:40.520 Jorgan Benedicto from his book The Black Death to thirteen 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:46.040 fifty three quote. In this astrological theory of epidemiology, Jupiter 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.960 was assumed to be warm and humid and to draw 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.200 malignant vapors both from the ground and from water, while 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.600 Mars was assumed to be hot and dry and therefore 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:01.680 had the capacity to kindle such malignant vapors into infective fire. 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.680 So under this theory, the movement of the planets would 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.960 be directly responsible for calamity here on Earth. Now, obviously, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.200 scientists today do not put a lot of stock in 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.680 the motions of Jupiter and Mars in determining our fates, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.640 but we did want to talk about some ways that 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:23.000 in a very real and material sense, local gas giants, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.640 and in our case that would be Jupiter in particular. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.320 We can also talk something about saturn Um can indeed 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.680 shape the fate of creatures dwelling on inner rocky planets. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:35.960 And so that's what we're going to focus on for 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.720 the next couple of episodes. A number of scientific ideas 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.600 about ways that the planet Jupiter could like the Jupiter 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.159 of myth that we're going to talk about in a 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.479 few minutes, be a kind of cosmic destroyer or a 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:52.200 cosmic creator deciding the fortunes of earth bound mortals like us. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.880 Without Jupiter, could we even exist? And how long could 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.039 life go on? So this should be a fun one. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.440 If you know some of you out there, you might say, well, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.000 I'm not as crazy about the space episodes. And some 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.320 of you might say, well, you know, I'm not crazy. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.360 It's crazy about the mythology episodes. Well we're gonna have 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.320 a little bit of mythology and a little bit of 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.200 of of space just spread throughout here. Um. So if 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.279 you hate both topics, I guess it's time to click off. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.400 But I think we've heard from anybody who said that, No, no, no, Um, 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.400 I just I know, uh, some people are maybe maybe 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.000 it's my mom. I can't remember my mom that might 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.680 be less into the space episodes. Uh. I guess one 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.880 of the things about space, in talking about it is 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.159 I always feel that it is nice to have some 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.880 sort of human element there, uh, to to sort of 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.839 uh attach us to it. Now, A lot of times 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.560 that human element is just imagining if we were there, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.599 you know, or or talk about how we might get 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.279 there one day and just sort of put it in 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.600 in in that kind of human context. And there's gonna, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:55.960 I guess, be some of that here. But for the 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.479 most part, uh, the mythology provides that there's like the 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.080 mytholotical idea of who Jupiter is, and then there is 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:08.440 the planetary idea of what Jupiter the planet is, and 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.960 I it's ultimately a lot of fun to compare the two, 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.160 right though there might not be a lot of I 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.000 don't know, human interest or drama and looking just at 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.320 the icy ridges of Yapidus or something, right, but those 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.320 are some good icy ridges. But yeah, well, we'll try 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.120 to give you some some narrative context here when when 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.440 talking about the planets. So one of the first things 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.480 I wanted to mention was I was recently reading about 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.799 the etymology of the word Jupiter and came across something 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:40.320 that I did not know but I actually found really interesting. So, 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.480 of course, the English word Jupiter comes to English through Latin, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.279 where it is a Jupiter spilt with an eye at 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.960 the beginning. A lot of Latin words that start with 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.279 a J in English actually start with an eye. There 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.440 was no j in Latin, and this of course, was 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.479 the name of the sky god and the chief of 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.200 the Roman pantheon, Jew Pitter or Jove or Upiter or Yove. Yeah, 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.520 that's why we refer to the moons of Jupiter as 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.960 the Jovian moons, right, synonymous in the Latin context. But so, 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.120 so I was reading about Okay, well what goes back 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:18.200 before that? It seems that the Latin word Upiter traces 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.760 back to a Proto Indo European route. And I apologize, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.160 I don't know perfectly how to pronounce this, but it's 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.960 something like deuce fatter. And remember, of course Proto Indo 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:35.480 European is a prehistoric lost language, so nobody speaks it today. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.600 In fact, nobody spoke it at any time that anybody 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.440 was writing anything down. So this is a This is 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:47.200 a prehistoric, pre written language that was the direct ancestor 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.960 of a huge number of languages spoken throughout Europe and 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.119 Asia today. It was probably originally spoken by people living 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.440 somewhere around modern day Ukraine or southern Russia. But it 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.800 is a lane which that has to be reconstructed by 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.440 linguists by looking at all these different languages around the 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.920 world and sort of tracing back their common roots in 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.880 this Proto Indo European language, do you Spotter would have 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.640 meant something like daylight sky father, and this would have 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:23.560 been the sky god of the reconstructed Proto Indo European religion. Now, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.200 if you hear in that there, Juice Potter, you can 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.960 hear where we get Jupiter from that. But you can 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.560 also probably hear where the word Zeus can be derived 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.760 from that, right, Juice. And so again there is a 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.840 reconstructed form of this religion. We don't have any written 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.239 records of this religion. It existed before writing, but scholars 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.520 can conclude some things about it with pretty high confidence 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.960 by looking at what common elements appear in very geographically 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:58.120 separated religions that have a Proto Indo European linguistic root. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.600 And this deity, this deuced patter one uh, it seems 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.160 to be very common to religions that are spread out 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.480 all over the place. For example, this name formulation also 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.400 appears in the Sanskrit rig Veda, where you get a 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.200 god named like Diaos or something roughly equivalent to that. 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.400 But in Roman religion in particular, this ancient sky god 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.160 tradition that of course had been channeled through the Greek 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.160 stories of Zeus. Remember, the the Roman mythology and the 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.679 Roman gods are extremely close copies of the of the 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.720 Greek gods, and there might be there are some appreciable differences, 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.280 but there is enormous overlap between them. So for all 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.640 practical purposes, Jupiter is Zeus. But in the Roman tradition, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.080 this god, this sky god, this chief of the pantheon, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.160 came to be associated with the planet Jupiter, which had 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.040 been known since ancient times since it could be seen 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.880 with the naked eye. And of course Jupiter, the planet 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.160 has mythological significance beyond the Roman connection. One example is 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.000 that in the ancient Babylonian religion, the planet Jupiter is 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:05.360 associated with another chief god, mar Duke, the chief god 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.440 of the city of Babylon Uh. He's the slayer hero 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.120 of the epic poem the Enuma a Leash, where there 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.679 is a primeval chaos monster named Tiamat, a sort of 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:21.359 saltwater dragon that arises from a previous generation of divine beings, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.360 and then Tiamat threatens to destroy the younger generation of gods, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.400 and mar Duke becomes sort of president of the God 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.040 Club by going out to slay Tiamat and the monsters 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.400 at her command. And there are some interesting parallels here, 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.360 because a mar duke like Zeus and like Jupiter is 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.360 sort of a sky god. Now, I think it's interesting 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:45.120 that the broad contours of this story in the Enuma 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:50.640 a Lesh have a very strong echo in Greco Roman mythology, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.720 where Zeus, who would later become Jupiter to the Romans, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.000 also has to overthrow and destroy a pre existent class 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.320 of divine beings to sort of pave the way for 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.680 the younger generation of gods to take power. And in 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.760 the Greek case, this earlier generation of divine beings were 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.319 the Titans. This conflict in Greek religion that pits Zeus 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.720 and the gods of Olympus versus the older beings of 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.920 the previous divine generation is sometimes called the Titanomicy. The 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.160 War of the Titans is what that means, Yeah, the 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.000 the Titanomicy is an example of what is sometimes referred 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:32.479 to as um a theomicy like theo and then uh 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.480 at the beginning of it, you know, a war of 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.000 the gods. So the Titanomicy is just one in the 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.360 Greek tradition. In the Trojan War, is also essentially a theomicy. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.440 There's also the Gigantomici, which occurred after the war against 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.640 the gods. This is the war between the Olympian gods 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.679 and the giants who are the offspring of Gaia and 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.640 the blood of chronos Um. Now, of course, there are 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.880 plenty of other religions that feature theomachies. Of course, there's 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.760 a Norse uh god between the Aser and the van Ear. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.280 There's the Vedic wars of the Davas and the Astras. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.160 There's the Water War of Chinese mythology that that pitted 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:16.040 the destructive water god Gong Gong against Zoo Wrong, the 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.480 fire god. And then, of course, in Christian tradition we 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.719 have this idea of a war in heaven uh and 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:22.800 and I'm sure there there are numerous other examples we 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.680 could point to. Yeah, it seems to be very common 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.760 throughout the myths of the world to imagine that it's 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.839 some ancient time there was a conflict between a pre 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:37.120 existent class of of divine beings and then some like 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.600 newer or younger class of divine beings. It doesn't always 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.360 break down along generational lines like that, but it certainly does. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.960 In the Greek example. Yeah, we kind of get into 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.920 this in our head, this idea of like, Okay, we 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.240 have the King of the gods, and he shall reign 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.040 forever and ever. But I feel like things feel a 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.840 bit more tenuous with these earlier models, because it's like, well, 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.439 this have been He's been ruling for a good three 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.360 or four years. Now, there are some there's some other 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.120 guys that came before him. I don't know what will 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.640 come next. He has he doesn't get along with everybody. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.080 Heavy lies the crown. Yeah, I mean it makes sense 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:15.720 too if you're basing your ideas of divine rule, uh 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.680 in a mythological sense on the on the examples of 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.880 rule that you see in the world around you. I mean, 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.079 that's just the nature of things. Yes, uh So, Now 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.080 I want to move to reading a section from a 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.880 an ancient text known as Hesiod's Theogomy. This is the 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.800 the Genealogy of the Gods by the ancient Greek writer 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.720 has He had to give some color to this story 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.200 we're telling. But first I need to set the stage 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.040 before I get to the part that we're going to read. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.480 So I'm necessarily doing a bunch of condensing here because 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.960 there are a whole bunch of stories about like which 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.000 divine beings emanated and gave birth to what. But the 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.920 short version is there have already been a couple of 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.800 generations of divine beings by the time we get the 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.959 Olympian gods. Uh. The Earth deity Guia and the sky 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.840 deity Oranas or Uranus Oranas together have a bunch of offspring. 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.480 And these offspring include these beings called the Hecaton Curries 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.120 or the hundred Handers. Uh. There were there were three 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.560 of them, these three brothers, and they had some amazing 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:24.480 body plans, you might say, Yeah, fifty heads, a hundred arms. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.520 It's great. I really enjoyed looking up, uh, mostly modern 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.080 illustrations of what this could have looked like, because there's 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.200 a there's a temptation to want to kind of draw 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.600 a turbo goro. You know. Um, it's been it's just 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.440 too many heads and too many arms. It just becomes 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.640 this mass of limbs and heads. But I've seen some people, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.560 some artists push this more in the direction of kind 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.120 of like an amorphous being, you know, like it's the 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.520 thing or some sort of a show goth or something. 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.280 You know, yeah, just to kind of rat king god. Yeah. Now, 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.480 Guya and Uranas also gave birth to the Cyclopes, who 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.440 you know, we know about those. And then finally they 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.400 gave birth to a bunch of gods that were called 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.920 the Titans, and two of these titans Chronus and Raya. 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.680 They together then sire a new generation of gods with 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:19.080 names that might be more familiar Poseidon, Hades, demiter Hera, Zeus. Yeah, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.280 the members of the proper Greek pantheon of gods, right, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.480 But as we mentioned, Heavy lies the crown and Chronus. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.440 At this point, Cronus has assumed the throne of the 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.880 of the heavens after castrating his father Uranas, so Chronus 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.000 is in charge now. But Chronus is jealous and paranoid 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.080 like like many kings of Greek myth are like a Chrysius, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.040 you know. In the Perseus narrative, he fears his own 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.040 offspring um and be because he's been given an omen 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.400 that one day he would be dethroned by his own offspring. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.160 So every time Reya gives birth to one of his offspring, 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.240 Chronus would eat the newborn child. But then Zeus is born, 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.720 and I guess Zeus is the youngest of the brood. 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.600 Of the Olympian gods. And here Ya plays a trick 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.520 on Chronus. She feeds him a rock. It's a very 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.040 good trick. Instead, she she sends the real Zeus off 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.800 to hide away in a cave and swaps out Zeus 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.520 for a stone in a blanket and hands it over 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.800 to Chronus, and Chronus just eats it up. And then 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.880 Zeus is just training in a cave like a big 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:27.520 training montage, getting ready for the rebellion against his father. Right, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.720 it's like Rocky four when he's out in the snow, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.240 you know, lifting the logs and everything getting ready. And 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.520 so you have to imagine Chronus here is Ivan Draco 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.760 and Zeus is Rocky and what's going to happen? Well, 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.600 when Zeus has grown up, he somehow tricks Chronus into 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.520 vomiting up all of Zeus's siblings, who are then able 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.880 to join Zeus in making war on Chronus and the 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.080 Order of the Titans. And they also enlist some of 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.720 their allies, like some of the other primordial beings come 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.120 to fight on the side of Zeus and the Olympians. 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.280 The cyclopese Is and the hecaton Cries they had previously 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.119 those last two classes of beings had previously been imprisoned 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.760 in the underworld of Tartarus, and they're sort of set free, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.560 and they joined in the fight. Zeos says to them, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.760 put down your chainsaw and listen to me. It's time 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:17.960 for you to join in the fight, and they do. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.320 Now Here, we're gearing up for battle. And Robert, are 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.560 you ready for us to read some from the theogony? 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.800 That wasn't from the theogony that you just quoted about 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:28.880 the Shain's house. No, no, no, that that was from 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.919 a weird al dared stupid right, well, then then carry on. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:37.520 This translation appears in Thomas G. Palma's Anthology of Classical 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.400 myth Primary Sources in translation from Hackett Publishing, two thousand four. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:46.240 So the Olympian gods take their position. Quote they stood 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.680 against the Titans on the line of battle, holding chunks 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.719 of cliff in their rugged hands. Opposite them, the Titans 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:59.119 tightened their ranks expectantly. Then both sides hands flashed with power, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.440 and the unfathomable sea shrieked eerily. The earth crashed and rumbled, 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.960 the vast sky groaned and quavered, and massive Olympus shook 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.879 from its roots under the immortals onslaught a deep trimmor 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.879 of feet reached misty tartarus, and a high whistling noise 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.160 of insuppressible tumult, with heavy missiles that groaned and wind 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.600 in flight, and the sound of each side shouting rose 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:29.040 to starry heaven as they collided with a magnificent battle cry. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.000 And now Zeus no longer held back his strength. His 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.639 lung seethed with anger, and he revealed all his power. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.840 He charred from the sky, hurtling down from olympos in 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:44.160 a fury of lightning, hurling thunderbolts one after another, right 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:48.399 on target from his massive hand, a whirlwind of holy flame, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.040 and the earth that bears life roared as it burned, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.720 and the endless forest crackled in fire, and the continents melted, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.320 and the ocean streams boiled, and the barren sea. The 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.560 blast of heat enveloped the Thornian Titans, and the flame 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.560 reached the bright stratosphere, and the incandescent rays of the 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.480 thunderbolts and lightning flashes blinded their eyes. Mighty as they were, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.800 heat so terrible, and engulfed deep chaos. The sight of 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.040 it all and its sound to the ears was just 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.680 as if broad Heaven had fallen on Earth. The noise 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.600 of it crashing and of Earth being crushed would be 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.119 like the noise that arose from the strife of the 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.600 clashing gods. Winds hissed through the earth, starting off tremors 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.040 and swept dust and thunder and flashing bolts of lightning 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.320 the weapons of Zeus, along with the shouting and din 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.439 into both sides, reverberation from the terrible strife hung in 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.159 the air, and sheer power shone through it. I love it. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.200 One can imagine like led Zeppelin or Rage against the 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.159 machine ring in the background. Yeah, or Chronus is like 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.479 the witch king of Angmar and Uh. But anyway, as 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.239 Zeus and the Olympians are, of course the victors in 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.919 this war, the titanomic he breaks in their favor. The 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.080 Titans are defeated, and they are chained up in Tartarus. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.280 So they're cold, sort of thrown down into this hell 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.960 like underworld and and imprisoned there. And and there are 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.119 a few other disparate fates, like some of these primordial 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.720 being side with the Olympians. Uh Atlas is one of 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.480 the Titans. In particular, he's punished by being made to 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.800 hold up the heavens forever. But it'll be interesting to 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:30.960 keep this in mind later on when we talk about 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.560 some of the astrophysics today. Is that this idea that 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.120 Zeus or his Roman counterpart Jupiter would have been these 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.640 prolific destroyers that paved the way for the status quo 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.520 of today, the you know, the way things have been 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.840 ordained today by defeating this ancient class of gods that 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.080 had existed since the beginning or shortly after it. And 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.080 of course, and another funny thing about Zeus and Jupiter 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.719 is that the slaying doesn't stop there. I mean, they 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.760 are these these gods are prolific destroyers throughout all time 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.159 of myth. Yeah, because you know they they won the 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.680 crown through war, and then wars are required to maintain 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.920 the order. And then also you just have individuals who 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.560 step out of line. Uh. And you know, maybe in 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.800 a way that is meaningful, but also sometimes the idea 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.680 is just in a way where mortals are are not 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.760 are not allowed to question the gods or or or 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:33.119 in any ways like them. Than so I thought we 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.080 might run through some of the the murders or I 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.960 don't know, executions, I guess attributed to Jupiter and Zeus um. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.240 So first of all ones that seem to be more 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:50.080 specifically aligned with the Roman Jupiter. There's the story of 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.880 Tillis Hostilius, who was killed by lightning bolt for botching 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.439 the reading of a sacred right. Um. So you know 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.080 it makes sense. Rights are important to religion. All of 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.720 this is it's it's it's part of the framework that's 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.600 holding up the cosmic order of the universe. This guy 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.359 is getting it wrong, so Zeus sends a lightning bolt 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.000 down on him. Could you imagine if Seth could throw 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.400 lightning at us every time we screwed up reading something? Oh, 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:20.080 it would it would be it would be a blood path. Uh. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:26.480 Now we mentioned in Um the Titano mocky. Sorry. Now, 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.520 during the Titanomicy, the war against the Titans, it's also 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.639 said that Jupiter killed his father the Titan Saturn right, 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.800 and Saturn is basically the equivalent of the Greek Titan 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:40.360 Chronus right. You get into different versions of it, particularly, 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.080 I think some of the Greek variations of it, it's 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.360 it's less a clear picture of him having killed. Sometimes 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.919 it's the dividing up. I mean, it's It's kind of 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:50.560 like when you do them with a titan or a god. Uh. 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:55.359 You know, sometimes that kind of marvel uh universe system 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.800 comes into play where nobody really dies. There's always a 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.680 way they could come back. Now murders attributed more properly 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:06.080 to Zeus. Um boy, there there are a number of 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.000 them here. First there's Asclepius, and uh, this one's interesting 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:13.840 because he was essentially killed by Zeus for practicing necromancy, 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:17.840 for raising the dead. Asclepius was some kind of healer figure, 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.679 wasn't he. Yeah, but you're not supposed to heal too 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:23.480 much because when you're miss you're interfering with the divine 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:28.000 order of things. That's over the line. Now there's salmon As, 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:32.600 who is executed for essentially pretending to be Zus. That's 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.560 a no no. Then there's another Titan here, the Titan Minnotius, 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.800 who is also killed during the war against the Titans. 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.840 And then when you get into the myth of like 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.120 Hayn the like Haan was this individual. There's a whole 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:45.879 cool story to this. I think we've we've touched on 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.159 it before on the show. But essentially, uh, he was 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.720 punished by being turned into a wolf, but he had 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:53.800 a number of sons, and a lot of those. If 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:56.040 you look at lists of people that were killed by Zeus, 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:58.919 his son's make up a whole subsection of that list. 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.320 And then there faith On, the son of Helios, who 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.960 is essentially executed for bad driving. Uh but bad driving 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.240 with the sun chariot. So you know, that's that's one thing. 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.600 If if if you're just you know, misusing a normal chariot, 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.080 but if it's the chariot of the Sun itself, well 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:17.480 that's dangerous. And now you're toying with the gods. But 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.960 of course, beyond specific murders or executions or killings however 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:25.600 you want to establish them, Jupiter or Zeus, you know, 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:31.399 he tended to punish gods, mortals, and titans with various imprisonments, transformations, tortures. 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:33.480 He is the king of the gods, after all, and 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:35.760 then he has to dish out this punishment to maintain 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.639 cosmic balance. But but also due to sort of the 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:43.600 outside nature of his own powers and his otherwise humanoid demeanor, 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:47.680 you know, he is still essentially a king, and while 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:52.320 a human king with human cravings and imperfections, certainly has 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:57.680 an outsized ability to create chaos. Uh, it's even more 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.160 so with the God of gods. So he's a being 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.160 of intense gravity and mass, and those who involve themselves 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:09.200 with him risk just being crushed by that mass. Right. 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.720 And this brings us back, of course to the planet, which, 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.080 as we mentioned earlier. You know, as you can tell 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:17.160 from the from the English word for the planet, the 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.840 Romans came to associate this chief of their pantheon with 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.199 the bright light in the sky that actually is the 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:29.040 planet Jupiter. Yeah. So obviously Jupiter is big. I don't 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:31.320 think that's gonna come as a as a surprise to 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:33.680 anyone out there. And some of the facts that we're 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:35.480 gonna lay out for you here are kind of sort 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:38.480 of the typical songs of Jupiter that we must sing 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:41.720 just to remind you how big Jupiter is in relation 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:45.960 to Earth. Uh So let's refresh. First of all, Jupiter 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:50.680 is eleven times larger than Earth. That's in terms of diameter, right, Yeah, 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.000 if you're gonna line them up, Jupiter is more massive 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:57.280 than all the other planets of the Solar System combined. 0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:00.880 That is incredible, because there's some there's some other once, right, 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:04.920 Jupiter is three hundred and seventeen point eight times as 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:09.720 massive as Earth, and you could fit almost thirteen hundred 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:12.960 earths inside of Jupiter. So basically, if Jupiter was a 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.480 gumball machine and you were putting Earth's inside it, that's 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:19.560 about how many you could fit. Uh. So these are 0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:23.000 pretty standard facts. I got these from NASA and from 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.119 Universe Today, And yeah, you've probably heard them before, but 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:29.640 I think it it just bears reminding just how big 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:34.520 Jupiter is, and therefore how massive, how just gravitationally potent 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:37.000 and powerful. You know, I bet you could fit more 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:40.840 earths inside Jupiter Earth was cube shaped rather than round. 0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:44.240 You ever look at that like the packing efficiency of 0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:49.160 ball shapes versus other shapes. Yeah, I guess, I guess so. Uh. 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:51.160 But it also it makes you wonder how many humans 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:54.720 could fit inside Zeus or Jupiter the god. How many 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:57.800 gods can fit inside Chronus? Seems like a lot, you know, 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:01.119 well the baby gods, that's true, are smaller than Yeah. 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:03.680 How big was that rock you think that Cronus had 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:06.000 to eat like to trick him into thinking it was Zeus? 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:07.679 I mean, are we are we talking just like a 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:09.760 you know, hand sized rock? Or is this like a 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:13.159 Mountain that he ate. I think it's like, well, I 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.719 mean it's it's size the size of a baby guide. 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:17.680 So then I guess the question is how big is 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:22.800 a baby god? I don't know. Uh. There Uh so 0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:25.560 the difference between Earth and Jupiter is so great that 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:28.560 it can even play into our sci fi models and 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:29.960 uh and I think this is great because this is 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:33.080 also I think helps make our point here. I was 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.120 reading reading about this. This is some work from David 0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:41.600 Boulderstone from the University of Leicester. He asked a couple 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:45.840 of questions regarding Jupiter and planet sizes and energy. Back 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.680 in twenty eleven, this would have been an article titled 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.439 That's no Moon by Boulderstone at All, published in the 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.920 Journal of Special Topics, University of Leicester, Department of Physics 0:27:56.920 --> 0:28:00.000 and Astronomy. Yeah, this is this journal is fun. It's 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.680 an undergraduate journal, but it's for papers by physics students, 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:07.600 like working out the math of weird problems involving superpowers 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:10.800 and destroying planets. I think I recall one paper on 0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:13.080 there that was about whether you could drive a boat 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.920 in Jupiter's atmosphere That was really funny. Uh. It's it's 0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:18.960 stuff like that, so you can find a lot of 0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:22.560 really fun topics. The topics are quite special in fact. Yeah, 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.120 and as you can guess from the title, that's no Moon. 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:28.719 This paper concerns the Death Star. So the main questions 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:30.119 asked by this paper and you should look it up 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:31.399 if you can find it for free online, if you 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:33.080 if you're if you really want to geek out on 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.920 your your star wars and uh science here first of 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:38.520 all asked, is it possible for something the size of 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.920 the Death Star so uh physical construction more or less 0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:45.480 the size of of Earth Moon, uh, to generate enough 0:28:45.560 --> 0:28:49.560 power to destroy a rocky planet like Earth. And in 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:53.000 the secondary question, if so, would it be possible to 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:56.080 generate enough power to destroy a gas giant the size 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.920 of Jupiter. So a lot of this paper is about, 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:02.840 you know, doing the math, can a number of necessary assumptions, uh, 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.800 and without you know, geeking out too hard on questions 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.760 about well, what does a chiber crystal really do to 0:29:09.640 --> 0:29:12.400 energy and so forth? But ultimately they decided that the 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:15.920 Earth is well within the star, the Death Star's energy budget, 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.600 so it could totally blow up our planet. No questions asked? 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:24.000 Cool but good? But Jupiter Jupiter this would be a challenge. Quote, 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:28.800 Jupiter requires much greater energy demands and would put considerable 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:32.200 strain on the Death Star. To destroy a planet like Jupiter, 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.760 it would probably have to divert all remaining power from 0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:42.600 all essential systems and life support, which is not necessarily possible. Okay, 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.240 So granted this is not like. This is not firm 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.760 and set side is just a speculation on the power 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:51.160 of the Death Star. But think about that. That is 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:55.120 how massive and tough the planet Jupiter is. H If 0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.040 it was Jupiter versus the Death Star, the death Star 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:02.160 would not completely win. Uh. Late, the death Star is 0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:06.960 not powerful enough to destroy Jupiter. No, Jupiter absolutely is 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:12.200 a local bully. Jupiter has a mass and a gravitational 0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:16.120 influence that is unrivaled in the Solar System, of course, 0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:18.840 apart from the Sun itself. This does make me think 0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:22.240 of Percy Shelley's verse play Prometheus Unbound, where the god 0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:25.920 Jupiter is the villain. He's this cruel, tyrant god who 0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:28.280 has to be destroyed in order to free the world 0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:32.080 from his grip. And he's destroyed with the help of 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:35.640 this being of the void called the Demogorgon, which we 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.720 explored in a was it was it last October that 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.200 we did that episode, or maybe two octobers ago. Maybe 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.000 it was two ago. Yeah, but yeah, there's one part 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.440 where the spirit of the Earth itself is speaking of 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:51.720 Jupiter in Prometheus Unbound, and it says, I dare not 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.800 speak like life lest heavens fell king should hear and 0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:58.920 link me to some wheel of pain more torturing than 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:02.120 the one where on role. So Earth is already on 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:04.960 a wheel of pain? What what if it gets worse? 0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:07.680 Could could Jupiter put Earth on a worse wheel of pain? 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:18.080 The answer is yes, thank okay. So here I wanted 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:23.120 to shift to talking about some astrophysics, and specifically I 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:26.160 want to get to a hypothesis put forward in in 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:28.840 one interesting paper that came out a few years ago 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:32.800 that has some parallels to the titanomicy. So first, I 0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:35.560 think we should look at some exoplanets, because you know, 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.760 it's weird. I can still remember a time when the 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:42.720 idea of planets orbiting other stars was mostly a matter 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:45.680 of speculation, you know, with a few stray bits of 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:49.080 evidence here and there. But within the past decade or so, 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:52.800 exo planet research has just exploded, and I think this 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.400 is largely due to a number of new telescopes coming 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.400 online and new detection techniques. But I remember one of 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.600 the big moments here in the history of exoplanet research 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.600 was this dump of data on hundreds of new exoplanets 0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:08.680 from the Kepler Space Telescope. I think this was in 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.160 Do you remember when this happened, Rob, Yeah, yeah, vaguely so. Yes, 0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.960 it was hugely illuminating. But it also raises these questions 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:21.080 about what kinds of planets are out there, and what 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:24.360 kind of differences do we see when we compare our 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:28.720 Solar System to the types of stellar systems that are 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:31.440 common throughout the galaxy. And so here I wanted to 0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:33.520 turn to something interesting I was reading. It was a 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.280 blog post by the astrophysicist and science writer Ethan Seagull 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:40.280 called this is why you must never try and colonize 0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:44.240 a super Earth planet. You've probably heard this term super 0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:47.520 Earth so but that term can actually be fairly misleading, 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.640 and this post gets into why that is. And I 0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:53.520 wanted to kind of follow his logic here. So first 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:55.840 of all, you can observe that here in our Solar 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.640 System we've got two kinds of planets pretty much. You 0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:02.880 have small rocky planets with a thin atmosphere or no atmosphere, 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.000 and those are those are closer into the Sun. So 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:10.800 you've got Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars rocky core, very little 0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:15.040 atmosphere relative to gas giants. And then further out you 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:18.120 have these larger gas planets with some kind of solid 0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:22.200 or metal core surrounded by dense gases extending out for 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:26.480 thousands of kilometers in radius. How do these different types 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:31.040 of planets form. Well, the leading theory on the formation 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:34.000 of the planets is that our Solar system began as 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:38.680 a huge cloud of interstellar gas and dust floating in space. 0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:41.000 And this would have been made up of atoms and 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:45.320 molecules that were partially left over from previous generations of 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:49.000 stars that may have exploded in a supernova or been 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:52.080 torn apart in other events, you know, neutron star collisions 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:54.960 and things like that billions of years ago, or just 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.920 hydrogen that's been floating around out there in space since 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:01.000 the Big Bang. But so you've got all this gas 0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:04.080 and dust just floating around, and at some point this 0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:08.680 huge cloud of gas and dust collapsed, meaning it started 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:13.480 to fold in upon itself and become much denser and 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:15.879 there are certain they're there are different things that could 0:34:15.880 --> 0:34:18.640 have caused. This could have been caused by gravitational or 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:24.000 magnetic disturbances, maybe another star exploding nearby, sending material and 0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.239 a shock wave through the cloud um But when the 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:31.160 cloud collapsed, all of that dense matter pulled together by 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.360 gravity at the center of the cloud started to become 0:34:34.400 --> 0:34:37.719 a star, which would be our sun. But in this 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.319 kind of larval stage, it would be known as a 0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:44.280 solar nebula. It's a cloud on the way toward becoming 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:46.560 a sun. So you can picture a kind of huge 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:50.840 wheel of spinning gas and dust orbiting around a dense 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.319 hot center and getting more thinned out as you move 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:59.280 out from the center. Now, eventually gravity pulls things together 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:02.000 so much that the material at the center of the 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:05.480 spinning disk under under all this heat and pressure, as 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:09.040 it gets denser and denser, starts to cause hydrogen atoms 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:12.160 to fuse into helium atoms. And this is the beginning 0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:15.640 of the nuclear fusion reaction that powers our sun. And 0:35:15.680 --> 0:35:18.840 of course this releases tremendous amounts of energy in the process. 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.400 You get radiation, heat, and sunshine. Meanwhile, the outer parts 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:26.240 of this spinning wheel they keep spinning around the newborn 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.680 star at the center, and eventually clumps of gas and 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:33.799 dust inside this spinning disk start to be attracted to 0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:36.080 each other and to attract more gas and dust to 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:39.759 themselves because of gravity, and they form these larger and 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:43.040 larger clumps of matter still in orbit around the star. 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:46.600 And of course these accumulating clumps would eventually turn out 0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:51.400 to be solid stuff like planets, moons, comets, and asteroids, 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.440 and one of the biggest of these early forming clumps 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:57.800 would become Jupiter. Now, this is a normal way for 0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:01.239 for star systems to form. But coming back to that 0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:03.480 that blog post by Seagull that I was talking about. 0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:07.120 Sometimes we would just assume that other stellar systems should 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.799 be like ours, with small rocky planets towards the you know, 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:14.000 in smaller orbits are closer orbits around the Sun, and 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.799 then bigger gas giants farther out. But actually it looks 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:21.200 like our Solar system is rather unusual in this regard. 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.920 To read from seagull quote, When we look at our 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:28.600 most successful exoplanet hunting missions, Kepler and tests, the most 0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:31.600 abundant class of world that they found is an in 0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:36.680 between type commonly known as super Earth's. Despite the allure 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:39.440 of a planet that might be Earth like, only larger 0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:42.240 and with more room for life forms on it, super 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:45.759 Earths are nothing like our science fiction imaginings. Here's why 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.600 you must never try and call an ice one. So 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:51.840 in our solar systems, smaller rocky planets are close to 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:54.879 the star within what's known as the frost line, as 0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:58.000 a certain distance out from from the host star, and 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:02.239 the outer planets beyond the frost line are these gas giants. 0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:06.200 But actually we know now from exoplanet surveys that this 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:10.600 is somewhat arbitrary. Planets of any mask and any size 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:14.040 can orbit in very close to the host star. You 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:17.800 can have a planet as big as Jupiter orbiting really 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:20.960 close to our Sun, making a full circuit within days. 0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:24.280 You've probably heard about these types of planets that referred 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:27.719 to as hot jupiters, so it doesn't have to be 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:30.759 the way it is here and uh and as Siegel said, 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:33.480 the most common type of planet we've actually found out 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:36.719 there are these super earth So these would be planets 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:40.319 of two to ten Earth masses. So once you get 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.840 to about double the mass of Earth, you're in super 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.040 earth territory. Now, an important thing to point out here 0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:51.160 is that to some extent, by necessity, our picture of 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.880 what kind of planets are out there is going to 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:57.680 be influenced by our detection methods, like what types of 0:37:57.719 --> 0:38:01.280 planets we are particularly good at spot using the methods 0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:04.000 available to us. So it's possible that these types of 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:07.399 planets may be overrepresented in surveys. But still it does 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.760 appear that there are lots and lots of super Earths 0:38:10.800 --> 0:38:14.400 around stars throughout the rest of the galaxy. And despite 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:18.160 the name, these super earth planets are not necessarily much 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:21.960 like Earth at all. One factor is how much gas 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:26.719 these planets retain around them as they form. Because when 0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:29.759 you think about a planet, you know whether it's a 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:33.360 rocky planet like Earth or a gas giant like Jupiter. 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.080 There are gonna be a couple of things working against 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:39.400 each other that helped determine what types of volatiles you 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:41.920 can keep stuck to you. One is going to be 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:45.040 your mass and thus your gravity that really helps keep 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:48.799 the atmosphere stuck to you. But then another thing is 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:52.080 going to be is going to be solar radiation, because 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.359 the Sun is always going to be blasting you with 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:58.400 solar winds and solar radiation that want to strip away 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:01.640 volatiles from the planet and blow them out into space, 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:04.880 and this is something we can see happening to other planets, 0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:06.759 like I think you know. One of the theories of 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:09.840 how Mars ended up with such a thin atmosphere today 0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:12.440 is that it once may have had a thicker atmosphere, 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:15.480 but the Sun kind of blasted that atmosphere further out 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.600 into space over time. Now it's nice for us that 0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:21.439 Earth is able to maintain an atmosphere because we need 0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:24.760 it in order to breathe, but actually having too much 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.200 mass and thus too much gravity and thus too much 0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:32.400 atmosphere can really make it impossible for creatures like us 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:35.440 to survive on a planet. To read from seagull quote, 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:38.880 as long as the mass remains below a certain threshold, 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:42.600 the radiation from the nearby star will hit these easily 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:45.839 boiled gases and hit them with enough energy that they'll 0:39:45.960 --> 0:39:49.080 escape from the planet in question. But it rise above 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.920 that threshold, and even the ultraviolet radiation and solar wind 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:56.480 particles emitted from the star within the Solar System won't 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:59.720 be able to kick those light atoms and molecules away. 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.520 So in other words, if you are too low in 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.040 mass and too close to the star, the star will 0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:08.200 blast away your atmosphere. But if you raise a planet's 0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:10.640 mass beyond a certain threshold, its gravity is going to 0:40:10.719 --> 0:40:14.960 get so strong, strong enough to withstand that solar assault 0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:19.200 and hold onto its volatiles like gases and water. And 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:21.279 you get enough mass together in one place, and it 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.520 will start suctioning up material from all around it. It 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.799 will become this great accumulator. And of course, if it 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:31.600 gets enough mass that atoms at its core start undergoing fusion, 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.880 then you've just created a new star. But if you 0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.040 if you're not, if you don't have quite that much mass, 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:40.560 what you end up creating is a gas giant, a 0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:44.840 gas planet, even even smaller than Jupiter and Saturn. Planets 0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:47.279 more on the on the scale of Neptune are going 0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:50.719 to have these thick accumulated atmospheres that will make the 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.960 surface uninhabitable. So Seagull calls attention to a really important 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:59.399 paper from published in the Astrophysical Journal by Jinging Chin 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.440 and David Kipping called Probabilistic Forecasting of the masses and 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:07.120 radii of other worlds. And this is basically a survey 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:09.440 that says that there are pretty much four types of 0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:13.320 planets that you expect to find in our in our galaxy, 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.799 you get rocky worlds like Earth, and then you get 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:21.759 gas planets with with big what was called volatile envelopes, 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:25.759 like Neptune. And then you get very big gas giants 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:30.160 like Jupiter, and then you get basically fully fledged stars. 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.640 Just a planet gets so big that it's a star 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:35.160 in its own And one of the important things for 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:38.320 us here is that category of the Neptune like planets. 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:41.040 Seagull points out that if you're talking about a planet 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:44.200 with a density roughly equal to Earth's, which is about 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:48.200 six grams per cubic centimeter, you can really only get 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:52.200 about thirty percent larger in radius than Earth is and 0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.560 still be a rocky planet. You start getting bigger than that, 0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:58.480 and your mass means that you will be less like 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:03.440 Earth and more like Neptune, a minor gas planet clinging 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:06.880 to a deep blanket of hydrogen and other gases with 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:10.399 maybe thousands of times the atmospheric pressure of Earth at 0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:13.799 the surface. So I feel like we don't appreciate this 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:15.680 enough when we think about this idea of you know, 0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:19.480 super Earth's orbiting other stars that you don't have to 0:42:19.520 --> 0:42:22.200 go much bigger than Earth before you're starting to turn 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:26.640 into an uninhabitable gas planet, or at least uninhabitable for 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:29.720 the kinds of life that we understand. And these kinds 0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:33.240 of planets litter the galaxy, Planets that are a little 0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:36.840 bit bigger than Earth, probably enveloped in a gas cloud 0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:40.239 that would make the surface fully uninhabitable for us uh 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:42.839 seagull rites quote. Once you get to about twice as 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:45.359 massive as Earth, or just about twenty five to thirty 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:49.240 larger and radius than our planet, you're no longer rocky 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.840 with only a thin atmosphere, but are overwhelmingly likely to 0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:57.040 be Neptune like with a full fledged, large envelope of hydrogen, 0:42:57.160 --> 0:43:01.160 helium and other light gases. And so for this reason, 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:04.080 if you hear references to the abundant super Earth's in 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:07.200 the Milky Way, these are not good places for humans 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:10.439 to colonize, probably not at least, and probably not great 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:13.240 places to look for life that is a close analog 0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.200 to Earth life. Some people have seen calling them many 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:20.399 Neptunes rather than Super Earth's. But this brings us back 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:24.120 to an interesting question about our own solar system. Why 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:27.120 does our Solar System look like it does. Why does 0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:29.759 it have a planet like Earth rather than a bunch 0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:33.160 of these infernal super earths like so many other stars 0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:36.040 in our galaxy? And there was a paper published in 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:40.680 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in that offers 0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:44.000 one hypothesis to answer this, So why does our Solar 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:46.399 system look the way it does? This paper is called 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:51.080 Jupiter's Decisive Role in the Inner Solar System's Early evolutions 0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:55.400 is by Constantine Batigen and Greg Laughlin. Now, in addition 0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:56.960 to this paper, I was looking at a couple of 0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:00.480 write ups on it that quoted the authors, one inh 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:05.320 NA Geo by Andrew Physicis and one in Scientific American 0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:08.320 by Lee Billings. And so the short version here is 0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:11.719 that the authors of this study in argue that in 0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:18.080 the newly forming Solar System, Jupiter briefly migrated inwards from 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.200 the place where it first formed, and as it moved 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:25.560 inward into the Inner Solar System, it caused a series 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:29.480 of cascading effects that would have smashed other early forming 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:32.960 super Earth's in its wake, and that the current inner 0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:36.840 planets like Earth are actually formed from the debris left 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:41.920 over after this catastrophic series of collisions caused by Jupiter's 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:46.200 inward migration, and this broader hypothesis about the ancient inner 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:52.120 migration of Jupiter is sometimes called the Grand Tach hypothesis. Basically, 0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:54.520 it goes that lots of astronomers used to think that 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:58.759 planetary orbits were as a rule, highly stable and nearly circular, 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:02.120 unlikely to change. But when we look at other stars again, 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.640 that's just not what we find. Sometimes we see weird 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:09.799 kind of changes or eccentricities in planetary orbits. And so 0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:13.560 to explain the Grand Tech hypothesis, I'm going to quote 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:17.480 from this article in Scientific American by Lee Billings called Jupiter, 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:20.760 Destroyer of Worlds may have paved the way for Earth, 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:24.880 where Billings describes the Grand Tach hypothesis by saying that 0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:28.239 it posits quote, in the first few million years of 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:32.640 our Solar systems existence, Jupiter migrated into and then back 0:45:32.719 --> 0:45:36.200 out of the inner Solar System, following a course similar 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:39.960 to a sailboats when it tacks around a buoy. Back then, 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:44.040 Jupiter would have still been embedded in a gas rich disc. 0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:47.839 Much of that gas was spiraling down towards the Sun 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:50.840 so much that the action would have sapped some of 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:55.640 Jupiter's angular momentum too, causing the giant planet itself to 0:45:55.800 --> 0:46:00.480 spiral into the vicinity of where Mars is today. Jupiter 0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:03.279 would have kept falling in towards the Sun if not 0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:07.239 for being caught by the subsequent formation of Saturn, which 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.920 began drifting in as well. As the two giant planets 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:14.239 came closer together, they were caught in an orbital resonance. 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:18.759 This resonance expelled all the gas between them, gradually reversing 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:21.879 their death spirals and causing them to tack back out 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:26.160 to the outer Solar System. So this Grand Tach hypothesis, 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:29.120 if true, would explain several things. It would explain why 0:46:29.280 --> 0:46:31.920 Mars is so small when we might expect it to 0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:34.800 be larger, in the words of Billings. It would also 0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:38.120 explain the distribution of icy and rocky bodies in the 0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:42.640 asteroid belt and other strange features of the Solar System. 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:46.359 But if the Grand Tach is correct, Jupiter's orbit would 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:48.960 have strayed into the inner regions of the Solar System, 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:53.200 and its gravitational influence would have caused the realignment of 0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:58.560 the orbits of existing early forming super Earth's sometimes causing 0:46:58.600 --> 0:47:02.239 their orbits to overlap one another, and sometimes they would 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:06.960 actually have major collisions. You would really only need one 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:11.200 such catastrophic collision in order to have a chain reaction 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:15.279 that could annihilate these early forming inner planets. One one 0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:18.239 crash could lead to what the authors here called a 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:23.319 collisional cascade. The studies author Greg Laughlin is quoted in 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:25.960 the in these news articles by saying, quote, it's the 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:29.000 same thing we worry about if satellites were to be 0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:33.120 destroyed in low Earth orbit, their fragments would start smashing 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:37.880 into other satellites, and you'd risk a chain reaction of collisions. 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.200 Our work indicates that Jupiter would have created just such 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:45.120 a collisional cascade in the Inner Solar System. And to 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:49.360 quote here from billings quote, the simulation suggested that Jupiter's 0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:53.240 inward spiral would send swarms of one hundred kilometer wide 0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:58.319 planetary building blocks cascading into the Inner Solar System. The 0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:02.040 giant planet's gravity would also sling those building blocks and 0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:06.839 the inner planets themselves into overlapping elliptical orbits, creating an 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:12.560 interplanetary demolition derby of whirling, colliding, fragmenting worlds now this. 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.440 I mean, this sounds like a titanomic y yeah to me. 0:48:15.480 --> 0:48:18.440 I mean this is a war of the gods in 0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:22.160 which maybe the gods themselves are not destroyed, but there's 0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:25.640 a lot of destruction um going on between them. Yeah, 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:28.240 exactly right. I mean that's why I was making this connection. 0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:31.160 And I do want to be very clear, Uh, we 0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:35.479 are suggesting a connection based on like metaphorical similarities, because 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:38.919 there are actually people in the more Velakovsky vein who 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:42.160 think that you could draw literal parallels between things described 0:48:42.160 --> 0:48:44.920 in myth and ancient movements of the planets, which I 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:49.839 think is not probably not true. Like uh, Emmanuel Velakowski. 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:51.719 One of the things he wrote was that, you know, 0:48:51.800 --> 0:48:54.520 like miracles described in the Bible, about like pillars of 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:56.680 fire and stuff like that would have been caused by 0:48:56.719 --> 0:49:00.840 ancient planets moving around in their orbits and you know, 0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:03.279 stuff like that. I mean, there's no evidence for this 0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:07.160 in the modern world, but fantastically weird hypotheses that some 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:11.120 people still believe for some reason, not not actual scientists. 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.239 All of this stuff we're talking about would have been 0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:17.360 before we even had the Earth as it exists today, 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:19.719 So this would not have been things that people could 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:24.080 have witnessed. But the metaphorical similarity to these uh you know, uh, 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:28.239 theomicy myths is is fantastically cool. Yeah, and you can 0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:30.600 you can easily get into comparisons of like, what does 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:34.040 it mean to have terrific power? You know, whether you're 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:37.480 that that power is coming via the mass of some 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.480 sort of a planet or it's coming through the you know, 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.440 the power of a of a single warrior king in 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:46.840 in history. And I like that it's it's creating this 0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:50.800 metaphorical residence that it's not just Jupiter destroying this early 0:49:50.880 --> 0:49:54.919 generation of of primordial beings like the Titans, but it's 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:59.120 also creating the new divine order because, according to the 0:49:59.160 --> 0:50:04.120 authors here, a second generation of planets after this you know, 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:07.920 destruction cascade within the inner Solar System caused by Jupiter. 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.720 If this hypothesis is correct, a second generation of planets 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:14.839 would inform out of the whirling field of debris that's 0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:19.520 left over. So the pulverized remnants of these ancient super 0:50:19.560 --> 0:50:22.000 earths would have a couple of fates, Like some of 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:25.000 the debris would get dragged down into the Sun, and 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:28.320 then some of the leftover chunks would become the bodies 0:50:28.360 --> 0:50:32.719 of planets like Earth and Venus. After Jupiter migrates back 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:34.920 out away from the Sun again. Yeah, it's like in 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:39.040 the aftermath of the war, um, Zeus has to say, well, um, 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:43.239 looks okay, Poseidon Hades, Um, we gotta divvy this up. Uh, 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:45.600 somebody's gotta make the ocean's work. Somebody's got to keep 0:50:45.600 --> 0:50:49.239 the underworld running clean. Um, so let's let's get to it. 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:51.960 These are jobs now. Now, the the aftermath of the 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:55.160 war defines our roles. Now. One thing that doesn't perfectly 0:50:55.200 --> 0:50:57.359 match up with the story in Greek myth, but does 0:50:57.400 --> 0:51:01.720 seem just generally mythologically interesting, is that if the Grand 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:05.399 Tach hypothesis is correct, that Saturn would have been responsible 0:51:05.440 --> 0:51:09.120 for pulling Jupiter out of the fray, right, pulling Jupiter 0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:12.319 back out away from the Sun. Now, Saturn again is 0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:16.360 associated with Chronus, the father of Jupiter, who was actually 0:51:16.680 --> 0:51:19.399 the main enemy here. So that part doesn't really line up, 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:21.919 but but I like it anyway. Well, you know, don't 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:25.479 discount the bond between father and son. Who knows, even 0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:28.279 after you fought one another in battle, right, I mean, 0:51:28.320 --> 0:51:31.680 I just imagine, like the six hour Snyder cut of 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:34.680 this myth, like, can I can imagine this scene where yeah, 0:51:34.680 --> 0:51:37.319 they've been battling each other, but then, uh, you know, 0:51:37.880 --> 0:51:40.320 Saturn reaches out to him and and and and saves 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:44.040 him from from destruction or something. My son, I am sorry, 0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:49.160 I tried to eat you while digesting that stone, I realized. 0:51:49.800 --> 0:51:51.560 I'm not sure what he realized. I don't. I don't 0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:54.719 think Chronus learns lessons. Chronus does not seem like a 0:51:54.800 --> 0:51:57.000 lesson learner. Well, I don't know if any of the 0:51:57.400 --> 0:52:00.600 gods do particularly, I mean not really. It's not really 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:03.439 a role for them. It's for mortals are the ones 0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:06.839 who learn the lessons. Uh, the gods are the ones 0:52:06.840 --> 0:52:09.520 who teach the lessons. Yeah, so I think that's maybe 0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:11.320 gonna have to do it for this episode. But in 0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:13.520 the next episode, we wanted to come back and look 0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:17.480 at more interesting ways that the tyrant Jupiter could indeed 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:21.160 be the decider of the fates of Earth, acting as protector, creator, 0:52:21.200 --> 0:52:23.799 and destroyer all in one. So so come back next 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:27.560 time for more Jupiter myths and Jupiter science. That's right, 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:29.520 should be a good time. In the meantime, if you 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:31.239 want to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow 0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:34.799 your Mind, including past episodes that have dealt with with 0:52:34.880 --> 0:52:38.799 Saturn and Jupiter uh, mainly with the moons of of 0:52:38.840 --> 0:52:41.640 Saturn and then also the Jovian moons UH. Then you 0:52:41.640 --> 0:52:43.839 can find those in the Stuff to Blow your Mind 0:52:44.280 --> 0:52:47.160 podcast feed, and you can find that podcast feed wherever 0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:49.960 you get your podcasts, wherever that happens to be. We 0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:53.359 just ask that you rate, review, and subscribe. 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